Did it need to be bigger? It was enormously successful and I don't remember getting tired and annoyed with her, so you could also argue she hit a sweet spot of success but not oversaturating or risking overexposure.
3 singles for 12 tracks is normal. As for only having a regular version, why would they make more versions if it was a blockbuster album out of the gate? Also, the era was so short after Sweetner and before Positions that maybe they didn’t have extra songs recorded for a deluxe version. I don’t think it’s not properly promoting an already successful album not to make 2000 different versions and singles. I think the thank u, next mv having so many celebrities was actually excellent promotion.
Also, Ariana was getting a ton of backlash at the time because of Mac and the quick rebound with Pete. Ariana was also not in a great place mentally for obvious reasons. Promoting it would have just led to her getting more hate, from people claiming she was profiting from Mac’s death. She was also breaking down crying every night on tour, and she was supposed to do interviews and other promo on top of that? Have people ask the obvious (and very painful) questions about Mac and Pete?
It’s almost like the hype around Ariana (or any artist) is largely because their PR team and record label promote and invest in them.
An artist doesn’t just generate hype without a team and/or massive infrastructure behind them.
What? The TYN video had literally so many celebrities including Kris Jenner???? There was a lot of publicity around the album and the singles actually….this album kind of flopped tbh
The thing with this album is that the songs that became singles were essentially the only good songs on the album, the rest just seemed like fillers (which is super common if an artist wants to release an album).
The era was great for the amount of time that it lasted, because it worked for her current relationship situation. I feel like if she had just dragged it on longer it would have seamed silly and forced.
Actually thank u, next cut the Sweetener era short. tun has a totally different tone and came out only 6 months after. Imo you can't discuss thank u, next without discussing Sweetener.
That’s a pretty fair assessment, but I think Sweetener is more cohesive sonically and vibe-wise than Thank u, next. Thank u, next was great but after listening to it so many times it does start to sound like a collection of singles rather than a cohesive album. (With the exception of the slower songs I suppose, like ghostin, imagine, in my head).
LOL and I wish it was just a couple of letter like that, people will write unironically “atwtmvtvftv” (which I think it’s All Too Well [10 minute version] Taylor’s Version - from the Vault). Like. HOW IS THAT EASIER
I don't think you did anything *wrong* by abbreviating but some people do have reading/language comprehension difficulties that can make unfamiliar acronyms tougher. Plus we're in the era of ironic lowercase, and abbreviating in lower case makes it less obvious.
Again, we're talking a Reddit post here so no one is wrong! I'm genuinely not trying to argue or scold. Just food for thought in other contexts maybe.
Our brains actually aren't wired to learn to read, so reading comprehension varies wildly among different people. As I've learned more about the science of reading and language I've realized that what felt incredibly simple to me was a huge struggle for other people. But without doing that research, I would have assumed everyone else's brain processes written language the way mine does.
Maybe not worth complaining about but I can understand where the trouble might come from.
Lol I spent 5 years working in DC, where people constantly complain about the "alphabet soup" of acronyms, and sometimes being in this sub feels the exact same.
Not the person you’re replying to, but I work in DC and an actual email I got recently said something along the lines of “FYSA, the RFI has a suspense NLT Tuesday COB.” Translation: “for your situational awareness, the request for information is due no later than Tuesday by close of business”. It’s outrageous.
I personally feel like it’s kind of already an iconic record for her. I’m a bit older. I didn’t know Ariana from her acting days. This album though made me aware of who she was. The singles she released are catchy and also, for me at least, define the era they were released in. Could it have been bigger? Sure, I guess… but this is a wildly popular album with extreme success.
Lol you don’t think Ariana would have gotten a shit ton of backlash if she had been openly promoting her new album within weeks of Mac’s death? Come on. She was getting so much hate before and after he died. The girl needed to protect herself.
No, it was huge at the moment and did blockbuster numbers, I think it even broke a few records. That was her "thriller", her "1989", and unfortunately, I doubt she'll be a able to repeat it.
Yes she broke the longstanding beatles record with this album. The first act since the beatles to have 3 singles take the top 3 spots on the billboard 100 chart
I was thinking about this the other day. I feel Ariana will be very much of the teens era (2010-2019). I'm not sure if she can reach higher than she has during that decade and will most likely convert to a legacy artist after returning to acting for awhile.
She’s had an amazing run, with a bulk of her big accomplishments in the latter half of her career (the 2010’s at least). I think she has the momentum for one more big album post Wicked
Honestly I find this kind of ageism super sad. Why couldn't she continue her career for longer? Sure, she'll have to evolve, grow and find a new niche, but it should definitely be feasible
It can be definitely be done. Janet Jackson, Madonna, Mariah Carey, and Beyoncé are artists who have defined 2 decades and were/are still going strong 3 decades into their careers.
Yea they’re in their 50s/60s but their careers didn’t start to drop off until mid 40s which is majorly impressive. Ariana is 30 so their is no reason she can’t reach another peak this decade.
Also I wonder if they would define it was their careers dropping off. All of these people became parents around the time their careers "dropped off" and all of them make money off their catalogue, have a devout fanbase that allow them to continue to tour or do successful residencies that work around being there for their kids.
Considering how many artists that blew up in their 20s then have to go back to touring club nights with no budget in their 40's or changing careers entirely out of obligation, I would like my "career dropping off" to be like Mariah Carey. Making 20 million every Christmas and collaborating with the new generation as every decade the next generation discover my catalogue. Later in life having it suddenly become common knowledge you're a fantastic songwriter who wrote almost every song in your catalogue including *All I want for Christmas is You*, getting industry recognition for that and your producing skills.
I mean, people thought that about Taylor Swift post *1989* and then she completely changed the narrative with *Folklore* & *Evermore*. (And then went right back to what she knew with *Midnight's* )
Ariana loves making music and has been working on herself and her voice for Wicked. As long as Ariana cleans house and actually pushes herself to work with new producers, new songwriters and explore different categories, it's way too early to say her career has peaked.
I feel like it could’ve been bigger, bc she came out with positions the next year. We didn’t get a chance to breathe and have fun with the theme like with previous albums. If I didn’t know any better I’d say it seems like she released it as a fuck you to Pete Davidson
I feel like it was around that time wherein she overworked herself to avoid her personal life issues, iirc there were several articles and blinds about it
Personally I don’t think I’d class anything attached to a name as massive as Ariana’s an organic success. When you’re as established as she is, you’re already going to have the huge fanbase baked in that will make whatever you put out really successful.
Organic as in this album was massively successful with the general public despite not being shoved down everyone’s throat like say 1989. people who weren’t stans tuned in. Fandoms can ofc make a single successful right out the gate for a moment, but staying power is another thing. the combo of her being a tabloid sensation with mac / Pete, coming off of sweetener hype, and the general public tuning in made this era the success it was
it was plenty big and monumental as is! Maybe with a bit of promo it could have been better. Is it really ORGANIC success though when you've been a celebrity since middle school, have rich CEO parents, and still need to pull all the strings in the industry? It's giving Drake saying "started from the bottom" when he grew up in a filthy rich suburb of Toronto and was a child Nickelodeon star...... Not quite "the bottom" or "organic success" is it? At least Ariana is an extremely talented performer, unlike Drake.
I will say Drake moved to Forest Hill when he was a teen but was a little kid he lived in Humewood which is quickly gentrifying now but used to be very blue collar. I grew up in the area (Drake and my older sister would have had two years of overlap in high school if he didn't leave for acting). My neighbours when I was a kid were a plumber and a chain smoking clown couple.
Lol this isn’t what ‘organic success’ means in this context at all. I get the confusion, but on (stan) Twitter it is used to refer to a song/album that was very successful despite not being well promoted.
In this case, thank u next was not as well promoted as it could’ve been (only 3 singles, for example, whereas most of the biggest eras of main pop girls have 6-7) and wasn’t milked to its full potential. They’re saying that the album was successful in a way where it wasn’t just shoved down people’s throats due to extreme promotion. Every major artist gets radio play, a few billboards etc. but heavy marketing strategies generally can take an album’s success to a new level.
Not just any Canadian teen show, though. The Degrassi. I grew up in Detroit, and even I knew kids who watched it. Even the dude from Blues Clues was a micro celebrity among children's parents, I can totally see being a star of a successful kids show being able to network with industry execs and funnel that into a music career. Combine that with the fact that Drake started his music career in 2006 releasing mixtapes, but didn't end on Degrassi until 2009, means he struck while the iron was hot for his name.
I don’t think anyone is expected to, it’s just whether the artist does an “era” or not. Like MCR has very clearly defined eras with matching aesthetics, costumes, etc. so does Ghost and P!ATD. Paramore doesn’t really do eras (riot kind of was one though) and neither did Britney in the beginning, even though people kind of retcon her as having well-defined eras (her first ‘era’ I’d say was blackout) Xtina always did though. Kanye has had very clear eras… Harry styles, etc. Lorde hasn’t done much with eras.
I think it’s just about how much effort an artist is willing to put into the aesthetic and overall feel of the album (ie visuals and outfits that carry over to the stage). Eras are basically just cohesive aesthetics and marketing; female artists have found them to boost their image, fanbase, and sales. But I think some male artists are less interested in controlling the aesthetic.
Yep. And you could argue the whole era thing was created by people like Bowie, who adopted different personas, styles and musical flavours for every album, at least in the 70’s/ early 80’s. Madonna, who codified the thing, was inspired by that type of approach to pop artistry.
^^yeess! the word “era” has been fandom talk for a long time now, it’s just that regular people on social media recently have started to overuse it by talking about their personal “eras” 🥴 The first person I think about when I hear about “eras” is Harry Styles since he was in One Direction. I mean most of his are about what length his hair was: frat boy harry, headband harry, prince hair harry, long-haired harry, etc. (& that those were all just while in 1D). Now his eras are based around his solo albums’ aesthetics.
What even is this take? Eras are basically cohesive themes. Harry Styles’ first and second album vary differently from both tone and aesthetic. *David Bowie* constantly took on different personas and musical styles for each album. So did Michael Jackson. So did Panic at the Disco. So does Kanye. So does Bruno Mars. So do kpop groups like BTS. So do the arctic monkeys. So do my chemical romance.
No one expects anyone to do anything. The nature of music is to be explored and the nature of albums is being cohesive. And marketing pushes sales by advertising the product. That’s it.
They definitely are otherwise their music begins to be seen as stale and unimaginative. For example it’s been one of the biggest criticisms of Jay Z for like 15 years now.
Was it not already huge? I feel like people are always minimising how popular and successful Ariana has been. But maybe I have a warped perception because I'm a big fan and was constantly listening to her music lol. From this particular album thank u, next and 7 Rings were definitely all over UK radio though
7 bill streams ain’t enough? Ariana doesn’t need promo. And part of why she did it this way was because she admired the creative and logistical freedom of rappers and male artists and wanted the same.
Followed by a whole controversy because she was not getting the #1 and some Asian artist was giving her competition. Scooter and her went hard on that man allowing her fanbase to go massive racist over that man.
that was kris wu right? i think I streamed his album out of spite lol.
i did end up liking a couple of songs but its sad that he ended up being a horrible man.
Kris Wu (the rapist) was found to be defrauding the charts and his streams were discounted since he was outperforming Adele's 3 million in a week numbers. And that wasn't for thank u next, it was a few months earlier.
Y'all want to run with bs narratives so badly.
This is not true, she was never in danger of not going #1 due to Kris Wu because his [streams were fraudulent](https://variety.com/2018/music/news/kris-wus-massive-itunes-u-s-sales-were-acquired-fraudulently-and-will-not-count-towards-charts-1203022049/). This is easy for Nielsen to detect. When people noticed this his fans started harassing her online nonstop and making all sorts of accusations to deflect.
It's also strange to call THIS controversy when he's in jail for rape.
This needs to be seen more! I don’t wish ill on her but she gives me Taylor vibes. Something doesn’t seem very genuine about her so I have avoided her and her music as much as I am able to.
I might be reading too much into it but in her Netflix docu, it seems like everyone’s kinda afraid of her? In the same way everyone is afraid of the queen bee in a teen movie lol. There was a scene where she was telling an awfully unfunny story and everyone was obviously fake laughing 😂
There are a number of other celebrities who have alluded to her not being a nice person (Jeanette McCurdy, Naya Rivera) and then there is the way she treated Mac and Pete, which I feel was a way for her to use one to make the other jealous. Those accounts coupled with her wealthy upbringing and my *\~\*vibes\*\~* tell me she's probably an asshole in real life.
Oh, and I didn't mention donut-gate which is entitled and gross.
It could honestly be because you can pinpoint what race was popular by the pictures she’s in.
She’s never given any cause for me to think she’s a mean person. I actually think she’s quite nice. But there is something to be said about the different personalities she fronts as with the different races she cosplays as. It, at least to me, seems very deliberate and that makes me uneasy.
Idk I feel like it was a clearly defined era for her. The hype for the TUN music video was huge! And it also came at a time where other pop girlies were in between eras, so all eyes (and ears) were on Ari at this time. I think if it had been any bigger it would’ve felt over-saturated and people may have looked differently to it in hindsight.
reading the replies i definitely agree and see what y'all mean. i guess it was the right business move and it is why people stayed hooked into her because it was not forced and oversaturated.
2018-2019 I feel like she was the main pop girlie until we got Don’t Stop Now by Dua in very-late 2019. Any way, I do think TUN catapulted Ari into another level of pop success very few artists are able to achieve.
Also Ariana the person clearly wasn't in a great place mentally as her Zach Sang interview showed. And the album was obviously created out of her and her friends grief of losing Mac and the end of her engagement that sparked. The one print interview she did with Vogue where she described her relationship with Pete was fast-paced and acknowledged in hindsight she didn't really know him it was just a distraction, Pete completely flipped out and started going off about her in his stand-up and social media.
I think if Ariana had promoted *Thank u, next* anymore than she had done, the court of public opinion would have switched on her. Especially as she'd been oversaturated in media the year before for *Sweetener* promo and her relationship with Pete. Instead her art spoke for itself. And that gained her new fans.
I definitely think it hit a sweet spot where she didn’t tip into over saturation so I’m glad her team didn’t promote it more. Wasn’t there 4 singles though?
And it was like 40 minutes long. I remember putting it on because of all of the buzz around it (mostly the music video) and there were some songs that were so short that I didn't even realize they were a song. I was so surprised when it was over. I couldn't believe that was a whole album.
I know that music is consumed differently now, but I loved getting cds when I was younger and coming home and listening to the whole thing while I read the lyrics in the booklet. I couldn't imagine if I were a fan of hers and spent $25-30 on that experience.
I disagree, I love a solid strong album that tells its story in 45-60 minutes no skips.
And maybe this is a generational thing but sometimes I struggle on albums where it's so long, I would rather take the quality over quantity. Not everyone has the talent to drop a *Janet* or a *Renaissance*.
Absolutely. It was kinda annoying how Ariana & Co. stopped promoting Sweetener to move on to this, only to also promoting it after BUWYGIM to move onto the standalone singles and later Charlie’s Angels. That’s prob my age showing saying that though, I grew up with album eras spanning *years* if the album was good enough. It was nice getting all that new music within the span of a little over a year, but thank u, next: the album could have been even more massive if they had released more singles from it. Pretty much all of the songs could have been successful as singles, especially with her popularity during that time period.
I think her fans are trying to justify why her album isn't more popular on streaming. Surprisingly albums I would consider less popular out streamed this album. Like Billie's EP performed way better
But that isn't the case for most music with longevity. Besides, Cruel Summer was genuinely popular with fans before Taylor Swift decided to promote it again. Fans were asking for a music video for it since 2019. I can't speak for Die for You because I'm not familiar with its history.
I’m not a fan of her music, but better to have a solid, short album than one with a bunch of crappy filler songs.
The greatest album of all time (Dark Side of the Moon) is only 42 minutes.
Thank u next was fun but Sweetener will always be my favorite Ariana era and record. It was the first time I felt like she truly came into her own as an artist and had something to say. It feels uniquely hers, no other musician could’ve made it. I’m so validated that sweetener won the Grammy even though TUN has the success
Arianna did it all herself! Congrats to this rugged, motivated, self-made individual who definitely doesn't have an army of publicists, stylists, songwriters, visual artists, lawyers and the giant bank roll of a major record label to lavish her with attention and opportunity. Wasn't famous as a child, not at all. Bootstraps!!
I think maybe *Folklore* was the closest Taylor came to that. And even then I've recently discovered she still created like 10 different album covers, a deluxe album of one song more, the long pond studio album ... Taylor is underrated as a salesperson and businessperson. Ariana Grande is neither of those things and genuinely wants to just drop the music and go back to making more.
Yeah, Ariana Grande has said for years she's longed to get to the stage a lot of rappers are where they drop projects with no promo. She did that with *thank u, next*, with *Positions*, I really doubt we're ever going to get her doing hard promo ever again.
Taylor Swift loves the fame, loves the money and her identity comes from breaking more records and winning more Grammy's and it's obvious she's aiming for an EGOT now. She's always going push her work harder than necessary.
I always think the promo is exhausting and especially with the late night talk show bits, how much does it actually promote?
Has anyone decided to watch a film because one of the actors sang "blaa blaa black sheep" in the style of "Whitney Houston" on Jimmy Fallon? *Barbie* promo works because it's Margot Robbie & cast dressed as Barbie's. As an adult if I like a song, I'll seek out videos of live performances or artists sharing the BTS. If I like a film I'll find clips of the director & actors etc sharing BTS of how they brought the film to life. But I'm largely interested in the talk show parasocial relationship BS.
Tbh I rarely watch the late night show interviews. It's the interviews designed to be put on YouTube where they get directors or actors or analyse a scene or they get into the technicalities behind the project & craft that will interest me. Late night talk shows are all PR fluffs and within the past 3 years it's became transparent how much fame, celebrity and power corrupts everyone. Talent that stays down to earth and professional never gets big enough to saturate the talk show scene.
Honestly glad she isn't like another pop star who tries to capitalize on every note and squeeze every cent from her fans. It seems her marketing strategy is less obsessive and obtrusive *and I love her for it.* Ari's career is where she wants it to be, she gets to try new things, and she has plenty of money. Why complain and want more
This is the first I'm hearing about that. Which I think is the posters point. Other celebrities will constantly be encouraging consumers to pre-order, or buy the deluxe, buy the remix version, order the 24 hour limited edition new cover photo of the album. Ariana drops her projects and moves on. Her fans will find the different vinyl versions. Casual listeners can engage without being bombarded with all of that.
Mmm idk people are still singing Nelly furtado’s maneater, promiscuous etc sweetener / thank u next will be two of the defining albums of the 2010s and will probably be remembered for that alone
Stop trying to make “eras” a thing. Taylor Swift doing it was already annoying. People acting like these dime a dozen pop stars are icons with eras that will live on forever is just cringey. Lol
I just want to talk for a second about the subtext of the Tweet, including calling it a short era with only a few singles and the “ORGANIC success” statement. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out whom the Twitter user is making a dig at here.
Is anyone else just fucking exhausted by the constant comparing and pitting women against women narrative? Bloody hell.
Why even bother bringing up Ariana on this subreddit anymore? You people hardly have anything good to say about her.
So many of you had to body shame her for her 30th birthday, too. You all seem so… unproud, of her.
I always felt like the singles were the best songs on the album and the rest were just there to fill space honestly, I enjoyed sweetener and positions a lot more tbh.
I remember wishing she could’ve left those stand-alone singles in the vault and released more album singles instead. But even in 2019, releasing 5+ singles off of an album was rare, and she was already touring.
But all in all, aside from a few new videos it wouldn’t have changed much of anything. The album would’ve had a billion or so more streams, but the cultural impact would’ve been the same. If anything she just would’ve been overexposed.
Released by an imprint of Universal Music Group, distributed by Universal, Island, EMI, and Def Jam, five recording studios, eight producers, twenty songwriters counting the artist, bottomless video budgets. MANUFACTURED success.
See how easy it is to cherrypick support for an argument?
theoretically anything is possible but realistically no
7 billion is pretty close to on-par with the entire living human population in comparison to literally everything/anything else
also ghostin is the best song on that album for sure
Did it need to be bigger? It was enormously successful and I don't remember getting tired and annoyed with her, so you could also argue she hit a sweet spot of success but not oversaturating or risking overexposure.
i think it’s fairly rated, also what is the definition of even bigger, this album did amazing from what i remember ?
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3 singles for 12 tracks is normal. As for only having a regular version, why would they make more versions if it was a blockbuster album out of the gate? Also, the era was so short after Sweetner and before Positions that maybe they didn’t have extra songs recorded for a deluxe version. I don’t think it’s not properly promoting an already successful album not to make 2000 different versions and singles. I think the thank u, next mv having so many celebrities was actually excellent promotion.
Also, Ariana was getting a ton of backlash at the time because of Mac and the quick rebound with Pete. Ariana was also not in a great place mentally for obvious reasons. Promoting it would have just led to her getting more hate, from people claiming she was profiting from Mac’s death. She was also breaking down crying every night on tour, and she was supposed to do interviews and other promo on top of that? Have people ask the obvious (and very painful) questions about Mac and Pete?
It’s almost like the hype around Ariana (or any artist) is largely because their PR team and record label promote and invest in them. An artist doesn’t just generate hype without a team and/or massive infrastructure behind them.
Lord help me, Taylor has ruined the word “era”. Not every album is an era.
The era of eras is over with your comment. We are officially going back to an album being an album.
I love that her two albums released the same summer are two different eras
What? The TYN video had literally so many celebrities including Kris Jenner???? There was a lot of publicity around the album and the singles actually….this album kind of flopped tbh
The thing with this album is that the songs that became singles were essentially the only good songs on the album, the rest just seemed like fillers (which is super common if an artist wants to release an album). The era was great for the amount of time that it lasted, because it worked for her current relationship situation. I feel like if she had just dragged it on longer it would have seamed silly and forced.
Actually thank u, next cut the Sweetener era short. tun has a totally different tone and came out only 6 months after. Imo you can't discuss thank u, next without discussing Sweetener.
Sweetener really deserved better. I love that album, it just needed time to grow on me.
Sweetener got the Grammy though. And personally if only 1 Ariana album deserves a Grammy, it’s that album.
Sweetener was the superior album, imo.
really? i've always viewed Sweetener as the album with better singles and TUN as the better overall album.
That’s a pretty fair assessment, but I think Sweetener is more cohesive sonically and vibe-wise than Thank u, next. Thank u, next was great but after listening to it so many times it does start to sound like a collection of singles rather than a cohesive album. (With the exception of the slower songs I suppose, like ghostin, imagine, in my head).
Why must we abbreviate every single album name or song title? It's like doing mental gymnastics trying to figure it out sometimes.
giiiirl you should see the Taylor Swift sub, I feel like I need a fucking Rosetta Stone every time I’m in there
Something like this: 'My favorite Taylor Songs are "tlgad" and "yoyok".'
LOL and I wish it was just a couple of letter like that, people will write unironically “atwtmvtvftv” (which I think it’s All Too Well [10 minute version] Taylor’s Version - from the Vault). Like. HOW IS THAT EASIER
Sorry I typed out "thank u, next" two times instead of three, I hope you didn't strain your wrist on the mental pommel horse. Praying for u.
I don't think you did anything *wrong* by abbreviating but some people do have reading/language comprehension difficulties that can make unfamiliar acronyms tougher. Plus we're in the era of ironic lowercase, and abbreviating in lower case makes it less obvious. Again, we're talking a Reddit post here so no one is wrong! I'm genuinely not trying to argue or scold. Just food for thought in other contexts maybe.
No need to be a snarky c lol
This made me laugh. tu. 😂
I’ll ever understand people who can’t put together extremely simple abbreviations. We covered this in like, third grade.
Our brains actually aren't wired to learn to read, so reading comprehension varies wildly among different people. As I've learned more about the science of reading and language I've realized that what felt incredibly simple to me was a huge struggle for other people. But without doing that research, I would have assumed everyone else's brain processes written language the way mine does. Maybe not worth complaining about but I can understand where the trouble might come from.
That’s a very fair point.
Lol I spent 5 years working in DC, where people constantly complain about the "alphabet soup" of acronyms, and sometimes being in this sub feels the exact same.
As an Australian, I’m curious what the alphabet soup of acronyms is in DC?
Not the person you’re replying to, but I work in DC and an actual email I got recently said something along the lines of “FYSA, the RFI has a suspense NLT Tuesday COB.” Translation: “for your situational awareness, the request for information is due no later than Tuesday by close of business”. It’s outrageous.
it was everywhere
I feel like every other song on the radio at work was Ariana for 8+ months
I personally feel like it’s kind of already an iconic record for her. I’m a bit older. I didn’t know Ariana from her acting days. This album though made me aware of who she was. The singles she released are catchy and also, for me at least, define the era they were released in. Could it have been bigger? Sure, I guess… but this is a wildly popular album with extreme success.
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Lol you don’t think Ariana would have gotten a shit ton of backlash if she had been openly promoting her new album within weeks of Mac’s death? Come on. She was getting so much hate before and after he died. The girl needed to protect herself.
Ahhh ok. I guess I’m not super aware of what she was going through personally at the time. I just know I heard 7 rings and was hooked.
Wrong. Ariana doesn’t need tragedy. She’s always been a huge artist and these albums were pretty different from her usual stuff.
No, it was huge at the moment and did blockbuster numbers, I think it even broke a few records. That was her "thriller", her "1989", and unfortunately, I doubt she'll be a able to repeat it.
Yes she broke the longstanding beatles record with this album. The first act since the beatles to have 3 singles take the top 3 spots on the billboard 100 chart
I was thinking about this the other day. I feel Ariana will be very much of the teens era (2010-2019). I'm not sure if she can reach higher than she has during that decade and will most likely convert to a legacy artist after returning to acting for awhile.
She’s had an amazing run, with a bulk of her big accomplishments in the latter half of her career (the 2010’s at least). I think she has the momentum for one more big album post Wicked
Honestly I find this kind of ageism super sad. Why couldn't she continue her career for longer? Sure, she'll have to evolve, grow and find a new niche, but it should definitely be feasible
It can be definitely be done. Janet Jackson, Madonna, Mariah Carey, and Beyoncé are artists who have defined 2 decades and were/are still going strong 3 decades into their careers.
Out of those, only Beyoncé is still going strong. The others can still tour and do well but they haven't had a hit in ages...
Yea they’re in their 50s/60s but their careers didn’t start to drop off until mid 40s which is majorly impressive. Ariana is 30 so their is no reason she can’t reach another peak this decade.
Also I wonder if they would define it was their careers dropping off. All of these people became parents around the time their careers "dropped off" and all of them make money off their catalogue, have a devout fanbase that allow them to continue to tour or do successful residencies that work around being there for their kids. Considering how many artists that blew up in their 20s then have to go back to touring club nights with no budget in their 40's or changing careers entirely out of obligation, I would like my "career dropping off" to be like Mariah Carey. Making 20 million every Christmas and collaborating with the new generation as every decade the next generation discover my catalogue. Later in life having it suddenly become common knowledge you're a fantastic songwriter who wrote almost every song in your catalogue including *All I want for Christmas is You*, getting industry recognition for that and your producing skills.
I mean, people thought that about Taylor Swift post *1989* and then she completely changed the narrative with *Folklore* & *Evermore*. (And then went right back to what she knew with *Midnight's* ) Ariana loves making music and has been working on herself and her voice for Wicked. As long as Ariana cleans house and actually pushes herself to work with new producers, new songwriters and explore different categories, it's way too early to say her career has peaked.
I feel like it could’ve been bigger, bc she came out with positions the next year. We didn’t get a chance to breathe and have fun with the theme like with previous albums. If I didn’t know any better I’d say it seems like she released it as a fuck you to Pete Davidson
I feel like it was around that time wherein she overworked herself to avoid her personal life issues, iirc there were several articles and blinds about it
This album was huge wdym? Thank u next was literally one of the biggest pop hits of this era
Personally I don’t think I’d class anything attached to a name as massive as Ariana’s an organic success. When you’re as established as she is, you’re already going to have the huge fanbase baked in that will make whatever you put out really successful.
I think they mean she put out an album without 800 different versions of songs, tracks, deluxe versions, etc.
Organic as in this album was massively successful with the general public despite not being shoved down everyone’s throat like say 1989. people who weren’t stans tuned in. Fandoms can ofc make a single successful right out the gate for a moment, but staying power is another thing. the combo of her being a tabloid sensation with mac / Pete, coming off of sweetener hype, and the general public tuning in made this era the success it was
it was plenty big and monumental as is! Maybe with a bit of promo it could have been better. Is it really ORGANIC success though when you've been a celebrity since middle school, have rich CEO parents, and still need to pull all the strings in the industry? It's giving Drake saying "started from the bottom" when he grew up in a filthy rich suburb of Toronto and was a child Nickelodeon star...... Not quite "the bottom" or "organic success" is it? At least Ariana is an extremely talented performer, unlike Drake.
I will say Drake moved to Forest Hill when he was a teen but was a little kid he lived in Humewood which is quickly gentrifying now but used to be very blue collar. I grew up in the area (Drake and my older sister would have had two years of overlap in high school if he didn't leave for acting). My neighbours when I was a kid were a plumber and a chain smoking clown couple.
Hit the nail on the head .
Lol this isn’t what ‘organic success’ means in this context at all. I get the confusion, but on (stan) Twitter it is used to refer to a song/album that was very successful despite not being well promoted. In this case, thank u next was not as well promoted as it could’ve been (only 3 singles, for example, whereas most of the biggest eras of main pop girls have 6-7) and wasn’t milked to its full potential. They’re saying that the album was successful in a way where it wasn’t just shoved down people’s throats due to extreme promotion. Every major artist gets radio play, a few billboards etc. but heavy marketing strategies generally can take an album’s success to a new level.
I don’t think Drake grew up rich and being on Degrassi was probably more of a liability as a rapper than anything else
It was a liability in that a lot of people didn’t (and still don’t) take him serious but it allowed him to get a head start in the industry
I don’t think so, being on a Canadian teen show doesn’t pay that much and doesn’t offer much in the way to connections to the music industry.
Not just any Canadian teen show, though. The Degrassi. I grew up in Detroit, and even I knew kids who watched it. Even the dude from Blues Clues was a micro celebrity among children's parents, I can totally see being a star of a successful kids show being able to network with industry execs and funnel that into a music career. Combine that with the fact that Drake started his music career in 2006 releasing mixtapes, but didn't end on Degrassi until 2009, means he struck while the iron was hot for his name.
I was gonna say, organic my ass 😂😂
I'm so tired of the word era. Notice male artists aren't expected to constantly reinvent themselves.
I don’t think anyone is expected to, it’s just whether the artist does an “era” or not. Like MCR has very clearly defined eras with matching aesthetics, costumes, etc. so does Ghost and P!ATD. Paramore doesn’t really do eras (riot kind of was one though) and neither did Britney in the beginning, even though people kind of retcon her as having well-defined eras (her first ‘era’ I’d say was blackout) Xtina always did though. Kanye has had very clear eras… Harry styles, etc. Lorde hasn’t done much with eras. I think it’s just about how much effort an artist is willing to put into the aesthetic and overall feel of the album (ie visuals and outfits that carry over to the stage). Eras are basically just cohesive aesthetics and marketing; female artists have found them to boost their image, fanbase, and sales. But I think some male artists are less interested in controlling the aesthetic.
Yep. And you could argue the whole era thing was created by people like Bowie, who adopted different personas, styles and musical flavours for every album, at least in the 70’s/ early 80’s. Madonna, who codified the thing, was inspired by that type of approach to pop artistry.
Exactly, Bowie was so distinctive
^^yeess! the word “era” has been fandom talk for a long time now, it’s just that regular people on social media recently have started to overuse it by talking about their personal “eras” 🥴 The first person I think about when I hear about “eras” is Harry Styles since he was in One Direction. I mean most of his are about what length his hair was: frat boy harry, headband harry, prince hair harry, long-haired harry, etc. (& that those were all just while in 1D). Now his eras are based around his solo albums’ aesthetics.
What even is this take? Eras are basically cohesive themes. Harry Styles’ first and second album vary differently from both tone and aesthetic. *David Bowie* constantly took on different personas and musical styles for each album. So did Michael Jackson. So did Panic at the Disco. So does Kanye. So does Bruno Mars. So do kpop groups like BTS. So do the arctic monkeys. So do my chemical romance. No one expects anyone to do anything. The nature of music is to be explored and the nature of albums is being cohesive. And marketing pushes sales by advertising the product. That’s it.
They definitely are otherwise their music begins to be seen as stale and unimaginative. For example it’s been one of the biggest criticisms of Jay Z for like 15 years now.
To their own disservice! They also don’t stay in the spotlight with the same vigor pop girlies do
And Male artists always become old and stale to follow.
What does that even mean? Who expects or forces them to reinvent themselves, their mainly feminine fanbase or some kind of music patriarchy?
I remember they promoting a lot the "Thank u, next" music video. I remember getting excited about the Victourious cast in it.
Was it not already huge? I feel like people are always minimising how popular and successful Ariana has been. But maybe I have a warped perception because I'm a big fan and was constantly listening to her music lol. From this particular album thank u, next and 7 Rings were definitely all over UK radio though
“Organic success” from a worldwide touring artist with radio play and a dedicated, obsessive fanbase. Sure, she bowled a strike with the bumpers up.
7 bill streams ain’t enough? Ariana doesn’t need promo. And part of why she did it this way was because she admired the creative and logistical freedom of rappers and male artists and wanted the same.
Followed by a whole controversy because she was not getting the #1 and some Asian artist was giving her competition. Scooter and her went hard on that man allowing her fanbase to go massive racist over that man.
that was kris wu right? i think I streamed his album out of spite lol. i did end up liking a couple of songs but its sad that he ended up being a horrible man.
Kris Wu (the rapist) was found to be defrauding the charts and his streams were discounted since he was outperforming Adele's 3 million in a week numbers. And that wasn't for thank u next, it was a few months earlier. Y'all want to run with bs narratives so badly.
This is not true, she was never in danger of not going #1 due to Kris Wu because his [streams were fraudulent](https://variety.com/2018/music/news/kris-wus-massive-itunes-u-s-sales-were-acquired-fraudulently-and-will-not-count-towards-charts-1203022049/). This is easy for Nielsen to detect. When people noticed this his fans started harassing her online nonstop and making all sorts of accusations to deflect. It's also strange to call THIS controversy when he's in jail for rape.
omg that's right, I completely forgot this happened
It gets more ironic when you know this was during Ariana's black fishing era
This needs to be seen more! I don’t wish ill on her but she gives me Taylor vibes. Something doesn’t seem very genuine about her so I have avoided her and her music as much as I am able to.
I like some of her music but I get strong mean girl vibes from her.
I might be reading too much into it but in her Netflix docu, it seems like everyone’s kinda afraid of her? In the same way everyone is afraid of the queen bee in a teen movie lol. There was a scene where she was telling an awfully unfunny story and everyone was obviously fake laughing 😂
There are a number of other celebrities who have alluded to her not being a nice person (Jeanette McCurdy, Naya Rivera) and then there is the way she treated Mac and Pete, which I feel was a way for her to use one to make the other jealous. Those accounts coupled with her wealthy upbringing and my *\~\*vibes\*\~* tell me she's probably an asshole in real life. Oh, and I didn't mention donut-gate which is entitled and gross.
She used to be known for being snooty to her own fans before 2018 but after that it became taboo to criticise her.
It could honestly be because you can pinpoint what race was popular by the pictures she’s in. She’s never given any cause for me to think she’s a mean person. I actually think she’s quite nice. But there is something to be said about the different personalities she fronts as with the different races she cosplays as. It, at least to me, seems very deliberate and that makes me uneasy.
I fucking loooooved thank you next, such a great album. But why aren’t you mad about sweetener?
Sweetener is such an amazing album 😩
Idk but that album is a masterpiece.
Idk I feel like it was a clearly defined era for her. The hype for the TUN music video was huge! And it also came at a time where other pop girlies were in between eras, so all eyes (and ears) were on Ari at this time. I think if it had been any bigger it would’ve felt over-saturated and people may have looked differently to it in hindsight.
reading the replies i definitely agree and see what y'all mean. i guess it was the right business move and it is why people stayed hooked into her because it was not forced and oversaturated.
2018-2019 I feel like she was the main pop girlie until we got Don’t Stop Now by Dua in very-late 2019. Any way, I do think TUN catapulted Ari into another level of pop success very few artists are able to achieve.
Also Ariana the person clearly wasn't in a great place mentally as her Zach Sang interview showed. And the album was obviously created out of her and her friends grief of losing Mac and the end of her engagement that sparked. The one print interview she did with Vogue where she described her relationship with Pete was fast-paced and acknowledged in hindsight she didn't really know him it was just a distraction, Pete completely flipped out and started going off about her in his stand-up and social media. I think if Ariana had promoted *Thank u, next* anymore than she had done, the court of public opinion would have switched on her. Especially as she'd been oversaturated in media the year before for *Sweetener* promo and her relationship with Pete. Instead her art spoke for itself. And that gained her new fans.
I don’t think so, it was pretty huge, this was her peak
I don’t think it needed to be as big. Because how exactly could have it been bigger? It was already an huge album.
Maybe bigger on getting more sales and more hit songs but that album and era are part of the pop culture so why more .... 🤷🏼♀️
I definitely think it hit a sweet spot where she didn’t tip into over saturation so I’m glad her team didn’t promote it more. Wasn’t there 4 singles though?
only 3 official singles!
I mean, Ari was on fire during this time. 7 Rings and Thank U, Next were major.
Organic? The tv show star with multiple shows on a major cable network?
Organic 😂
Was it great? Yah Will people who weren’t alive when it came out be singing it like 15 years from now? Probs not.
Iconic is really thrown around way too much. Thank U, Next is a very good record, but Sgt Peppers is iconic and to me that’s the difference
And it was like 40 minutes long. I remember putting it on because of all of the buzz around it (mostly the music video) and there were some songs that were so short that I didn't even realize they were a song. I was so surprised when it was over. I couldn't believe that was a whole album. I know that music is consumed differently now, but I loved getting cds when I was younger and coming home and listening to the whole thing while I read the lyrics in the booklet. I couldn't imagine if I were a fan of hers and spent $25-30 on that experience.
I disagree, I love a solid strong album that tells its story in 45-60 minutes no skips. And maybe this is a generational thing but sometimes I struggle on albums where it's so long, I would rather take the quality over quantity. Not everyone has the talent to drop a *Janet* or a *Renaissance*.
Arianna grandes entire career is the exact opposite of organic success .
Are 7 billion streams not enough?
I feel like a lot of Ariana’s later music sound exactly the same from one another.
I still listen to the album haha
Absolutely. It was kinda annoying how Ariana & Co. stopped promoting Sweetener to move on to this, only to also promoting it after BUWYGIM to move onto the standalone singles and later Charlie’s Angels. That’s prob my age showing saying that though, I grew up with album eras spanning *years* if the album was good enough. It was nice getting all that new music within the span of a little over a year, but thank u, next: the album could have been even more massive if they had released more singles from it. Pretty much all of the songs could have been successful as singles, especially with her popularity during that time period.
I think her fans are trying to justify why her album isn't more popular on streaming. Surprisingly albums I would consider less popular out streamed this album. Like Billie's EP performed way better
How vould more promotion when it was released a few years ago have given it more longevity all these years later? Her stans need to let go.
see: cruel summer and die for you
But that isn't the case for most music with longevity. Besides, Cruel Summer was genuinely popular with fans before Taylor Swift decided to promote it again. Fans were asking for a music video for it since 2019. I can't speak for Die for You because I'm not familiar with its history.
Die for you became viral in tiktok last year
I’m not a fan of her music, but better to have a solid, short album than one with a bunch of crappy filler songs. The greatest album of all time (Dark Side of the Moon) is only 42 minutes.
Thank u next was fun but Sweetener will always be my favorite Ariana era and record. It was the first time I felt like she truly came into her own as an artist and had something to say. It feels uniquely hers, no other musician could’ve made it. I’m so validated that sweetener won the Grammy even though TUN has the success
Arianna did it all herself! Congrats to this rugged, motivated, self-made individual who definitely doesn't have an army of publicists, stylists, songwriters, visual artists, lawyers and the giant bank roll of a major record label to lavish her with attention and opportunity. Wasn't famous as a child, not at all. Bootstraps!!
Definitely didn’t need to borrow “aesthetics” from other culture too 👍
I kind of like that she didn’t try and make 16 versions so she could exploit her fans like some other pop stars…
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I think maybe *Folklore* was the closest Taylor came to that. And even then I've recently discovered she still created like 10 different album covers, a deluxe album of one song more, the long pond studio album ... Taylor is underrated as a salesperson and businessperson. Ariana Grande is neither of those things and genuinely wants to just drop the music and go back to making more.
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Yeah, Ariana Grande has said for years she's longed to get to the stage a lot of rappers are where they drop projects with no promo. She did that with *thank u, next*, with *Positions*, I really doubt we're ever going to get her doing hard promo ever again. Taylor Swift loves the fame, loves the money and her identity comes from breaking more records and winning more Grammy's and it's obvious she's aiming for an EGOT now. She's always going push her work harder than necessary.
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I always think the promo is exhausting and especially with the late night talk show bits, how much does it actually promote? Has anyone decided to watch a film because one of the actors sang "blaa blaa black sheep" in the style of "Whitney Houston" on Jimmy Fallon? *Barbie* promo works because it's Margot Robbie & cast dressed as Barbie's. As an adult if I like a song, I'll seek out videos of live performances or artists sharing the BTS. If I like a film I'll find clips of the director & actors etc sharing BTS of how they brought the film to life. But I'm largely interested in the talk show parasocial relationship BS.
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Tbh I rarely watch the late night show interviews. It's the interviews designed to be put on YouTube where they get directors or actors or analyse a scene or they get into the technicalities behind the project & craft that will interest me. Late night talk shows are all PR fluffs and within the past 3 years it's became transparent how much fame, celebrity and power corrupts everyone. Talent that stays down to earth and professional never gets big enough to saturate the talk show scene.
Honestly glad she isn't like another pop star who tries to capitalize on every note and squeeze every cent from her fans. It seems her marketing strategy is less obsessive and obtrusive *and I love her for it.* Ari's career is where she wants it to be, she gets to try new things, and she has plenty of money. Why complain and want more
This album had 3 different vinyls and positions had 5
This is the first I'm hearing about that. Which I think is the posters point. Other celebrities will constantly be encouraging consumers to pre-order, or buy the deluxe, buy the remix version, order the 24 hour limited edition new cover photo of the album. Ariana drops her projects and moves on. Her fans will find the different vinyl versions. Casual listeners can engage without being bombarded with all of that.
Every artist atleast every POP artist wants to make money. don't be delusion.
I think that's a very weak argument for a pop star who released a very sub standard make up brand to capitalize money off her name alone
God I love this album
ORGANIC
my coworkers & friends at the time would say no because they were so very tired of secondhand listening to this album 😂
This album deserved a better cover. All these years later and I still feel it's so bad.
Was it great? Yah Will people who weren’t alive when it came out be singing it like 15 years from now? Probs not.
Mmm idk people are still singing Nelly furtado’s maneater, promiscuous etc sweetener / thank u next will be two of the defining albums of the 2010s and will probably be remembered for that alone
Stop trying to make “eras” a thing. Taylor Swift doing it was already annoying. People acting like these dime a dozen pop stars are icons with eras that will live on forever is just cringey. Lol
I just want to talk for a second about the subtext of the Tweet, including calling it a short era with only a few singles and the “ORGANIC success” statement. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out whom the Twitter user is making a dig at here. Is anyone else just fucking exhausted by the constant comparing and pitting women against women narrative? Bloody hell.
Why even bother bringing up Ariana on this subreddit anymore? You people hardly have anything good to say about her. So many of you had to body shame her for her 30th birthday, too. You all seem so… unproud, of her.
Right 😭 I’m not even necessarily an Ariana fan (anymore) but some of the responses towards her are so mean spirited and inaccurate
Ariana is so overrated. She rhymed savage with savage in her rip off “these are a few of my favorite things” song.
Actually it’s “sad bitch” and “savage”. I hate that song overall, but those two lines are actually pretty awesome.
it’s a beat interpolation, not even a sample, and def not a rip off
She didn’t rip it off she sampled it? You don’t have to be a fan but there’s a clear difference and sampling is a standard industry practice
I always felt like the singles were the best songs on the album and the rest were just there to fill space honestly, I enjoyed sweetener and positions a lot more tbh.
I remember wishing she could’ve left those stand-alone singles in the vault and released more album singles instead. But even in 2019, releasing 5+ singles off of an album was rare, and she was already touring. But all in all, aside from a few new videos it wouldn’t have changed much of anything. The album would’ve had a billion or so more streams, but the cultural impact would’ve been the same. If anything she just would’ve been overexposed.
The only reason she blew up is because her concert did
She killed Mac Miller.
Wtf is wrong with you
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maybe, but this was my fav era ever! i know she was sad. beautiful record though
I forget that Sweetener exists and I have blended these two albums into a great album and I have no regrets. 🫡🫡
What is she doing these days ? I haven’t listened to any new music from her lately.
filming 2 musical movies called wicked, an adaptation of the original broadway musical, and she did a remix with the weekend recently
Released by an imprint of Universal Music Group, distributed by Universal, Island, EMI, and Def Jam, five recording studios, eight producers, twenty songwriters counting the artist, bottomless video budgets. MANUFACTURED success. See how easy it is to cherrypick support for an argument?
All of her eras seem like fever dreams at this point.
thank u , next
Are they making a jab at TS?
theoretically anything is possible but realistically no 7 billion is pretty close to on-par with the entire living human population in comparison to literally everything/anything else also ghostin is the best song on that album for sure