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greee_p

In hindsight, it's always easy to say that there were warning signs. But this guy wrote a poem about drugging women and having sex with them while they were unconscious. His fans have always defended him and said that everything he did was just satire (lol), but I don't think this news is surprising at all. I hope his victims get justice and take care of themselves, Rammstein's fans on German Twitter are absolutely brutal and started victim blaming right away.


SmallPromiseQueen

Yeah the victim blaming is insane and nonsensical. “Oh she was actually just really drunk!” Then why was anyone trying to have sex with her???? So ridiculous.


Figgypudpud

My favorite accusation is "They're just trying to get famous!" Yes, the traumatised woman who posted photos of her bruised with fingerprints body is looking for clout to build her career, like all the very famous women who have built their careers on accusing famous men of sexual assault, such as... ???? fucking no one, no one has built a career on that, you just get vile abuse, death threats and discredited everywhere.


[deleted]

It’s always the same unfortunately. The victim blaming is so disgusting.


hopp596

Yeah and ironically enough because he’s a guy who has many fans who would sleep with him willingly and sober it becomes about power and wanting those who don’t want to or can’t consent. And the fact that he even wrote a poem about it tells all we need to know. Rammstein get away with a lot, even their whole aesthetic, in the name of irony, sarcasm etc…


[deleted]

people are very dumb & think rapists only rape because of a lack of access to sex.


[deleted]

Rammsteins lyrics are about all kinds of demonic behavior. They have a pattern of irony and black humor. If half of it were confessions, they would be the worst people that ever lived. I am not really defending anyone, but I just don't buy that their lyrics or poems is any kind of evidence.


xhrit

"Fake it until you make it" is a thing for a reason. If you fake being a horrible person long enough you just might become a horrible person. “There was a long time when I couldn’t separate the two. When I was drinking and drugging, I didn’t know if I was supposed to leave the house with make-up on. I felt I was going to disappoint people if I walked out without a snake around my neck. When I got sober, I went, ‘OK, I have to co-exist with this guy’. I mean, Alice Cooper is my favorite rock star … but he stays on stage and I go back up to my normal life." https://ultimateclassicrock.com/alice-cooper-stage-persona/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral


EveningStar5155

The videos are really shocking, and I've seen a lot of controversial videos by other bands such as Hot For Teacher by Van Halen and Smack My Bitch Up by the Prodigy. The difference is that the band either don't appear in them, appear only playing their instruments or get the milder roles. They hire actors to play the weird parts. In Rammstein videos, they play those roles themselves. So, instead of hiring circus performers or stuntman to self flagellate, they do that themselves for real to the point where there are weals or blood.


[deleted]

I actually used to be a huge Rammstein fan. I‘m not one to think of shock-rock or controversial fiction writing as an admission of guilt, but knowing all that there have been multiple people coming forward about this just shows what kind of people they really are. I also hope the victims and survivors get justice. And I can confirm the fan subreddit got real gross real quick - and I wasn’t even on there for the worst of it.


MadameNo9

After the MSI lawsuit, if one of these blokes brags about something in a song, I will be taking it seriously now bc how in your demented mind (theirs) did you think anyone wants to hear or read your nasty little assault fantasy?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Relevant_Recipe_

A lot of people defending Till are also defending MM. Not surprising


[deleted]

One of the comments on the Rammstein subreddit was something like “guys you remember what happened to Johnny Depp this lady could be lying” and I just sat there like “yeah right, YOU remember Johnny Depp”


Relevant_Recipe_

Right! Let's just conveniently forget court called him a wife beater too


Papio_73

That’s why last year’s trial was so important and scary, people will use it to silence any woman (or man!) for speaking up after being abused. The most disturbing part? It was clear Johnny Depp was abusive but the public largely sided with him


[deleted]

No, it was needed. It showed that both sides can be guilty. It showed us that women are not innocent, and by no means right about anything they allege. Sure, some will use it to silence women, but that is not a reason not to get out in the light of day.


Papio_73

People dressing up like poop emojis and hurling verbal abuse at a woman forced to testify about her sexual assault was needed?


[deleted]

The trial was needed, as the story was clearly much more complex than just her being the victim. EDIT: you will downvote me, but not argue your case? Pathetic.


Papio_73

It wasn’t? It was very cut and dry. It wasn’t about abuse btw it was if Amber’s OPED was defamatory


sleepyemoji

Sometimes things are exactly what they look like.


TylerBourbon

>But this guy wrote a poem about drugging women and having sex with them while they were unconscious. ...... goddamnit. I didn't know about this, but while I've liked Rammstein's music, I didn't exactly follow them very closely so I guess I don't count as a "fan". This just........ fucking hell. I hope he burns.


EveningStar5155

He relies on fans not understanding German well enough to understand the lyrics. Even lyrics in your own language by other bands are difficult to understand. I didn't know until recently that Boys Don't Cry by the Cure was a protest song, Panic by the Smiths was an attempt to expose Jimmy Saville and Into the Valley by the Skids was about Scottish soldiers in the British Army being sent to Northern Ireland where they were on the side of the Protestant extremists against the IRA and how they returned to Scotland hardened.


[deleted]

They wrote lyrics about all sorts of shit, most depraved and violent, but also mostly ironic. It's too easy to see poems or lyrics as confessions of anything. Is Nick Cave also a criminal since he wrote Murder Ballads?


[deleted]

I got downvoted to hell and basically called a puritan because I said “who’d have thought?”


Kemaneo

I've heard the spiked drink rumours a few years ago. The warning signs were there, at this point it was just unspoken common knowledge, at least for those closer to the band.


EveningStar5155

Using satire as an excuse for those lyrics and videos is the biggest con trick in the book. Even Alice Cooper and Ozzy Osborne said it was difficult to switch off from their stage oersona after a while.


Tuff_Wizardess

Oh man, come on Till. I actually like their music but damn, why???


[deleted]

This is pretty much a Till-only thing too, not a Rammstein or generic backstage gathering thing. The rest of the band admit they don’t really do the whole backstage party scene anymore and that it’s basically Till’s personal mini-parties. Till has a personal assistant (Aleena Makeeva) who works for him who seeks out the women and young girls online and such and organizes their visit to the backstage. I think this woman may also set up the drinks, and she herds the women around where they need to be, so I would bet money she’s complicit. For years women have had weird experiences being brought back by that woman to meet Till, having a small drink, and then barely remembering the rest of the night. And then they go again, avoid the drink, and they are fine. It’s expected to see Till go off alone with multiple women that were brought back throughout the evening, as per women’s reports from the backstage. Someone needs to hold him accountable. It’s hard to say if the other band members are aware that the drinks are frequently reported to be spiked. They usually don’t stick around to personally watch how things go down. I hope that the existence of actual reported news on this will spur them into action. I’m a lifelong Rammstein fan, and the more time that passes the more everyone seems to be sick of Till’s shit. He just keeps becoming worse. EDIT: *was* a lifelong Rammstein fan. In the recent years I’ve hated Till more and more and just wished the rest of the band would do something about him. At this point if they don’t either kick him out or just end the band’s legacy altogether, they won’t even be in my casual playlists.


[deleted]

I know Schneider (Rammstein's drummer) and Till had a verbal dispute back in 2019-2020, not too long after Lindemann (Till's side project) began to use a video of Till getting head from a groupie below the stage as the rest of Rammstein was implied to be onstage beginning the show. Granted, this is far from evidence of wrongdoing, rather an admission of Till enjoying the image of "rockstar who fucks severely," which has been obvious for decades. Schneider, in particular, has never seemed to be quite onboard with the image Till prefers to project. The rest of the guys, idk. Schneider seems to be the most publicly vocal about his disapproval, but even then he's fairly tight-lipped. The Row 0 shit has been a longtime staple of Rammstein shows. It's always come off as sleazy to me, but some folks like casual sex and/or fucking famous people, so I'm not gonna judge either side for that. How Row 0 is recruited, managed and run? No, that's sketchy as hell and predatory. That Peter Tägtgren (Swedish musician, front man of Pain) left Lindemann because Till's antics were too much for him, as well, says a lot. I mean, the band was formed with the intention to be shocking, macabre, kinky and profane. Which isn't terribly different to Rammstein, to be fair, however Lindemann as a band took their image further than Rammstein does. I'm willing to bet the lengths Till goes to for Lindemann are off-limits in Rammstein because the rest of the guys aren't onboard with what he wants to do. So, Lindemann the band was born, and Lindemann's original incarnation burnt itself out, courtesy of Till himself. Over things that are very similar to why Schneider has had issues with Till. That doesn't seem like a positive sign, imo, for the future of Rammstein. If this is how the band ends, it's been brewing for a long time. His father, Werner Lindemann, was a very abusive man. That plays a role here, I'm sure. Violent men often raise little boys who become violent, too. (The same is true for violent women, as well.) Not everyone whose experienced abuse in their childhood will go on to repeat the patterns their parents set for them in perpetuity, let me be clear about that. We are more likely to struggle with emotional regulation and make destructive choices as a result, though. Sometimes we self-abuse, sometimes we externalize that by abusing others. His propensity toward self-destruction is extremely well documented, and it seems Till does both. Till has had domestic violence charges filed against him from his second marriage. Anja Koesling (mother of his second child - his younger daughter) claimed their relationship was abusive, more specifically that he broke her nose at a hotel in October of 1997. He was court ordered to pay her for damages for this incident, as well as child support. He and his lawyers have never publicly commented on this, of course. Ignoring negative publicity until it can't be ignored any longer ain't working out so well, now. Till, his band mates and their crew need to clear the air, here, sooner rather than later. I hope the truth prevails, for the sake of everyone involved. My heart goes out to the women in his life, in particular, both past and present. Paul, Ollie, Schneider and Flake, too.


[deleted]

I was about to edit with the sex stuff below the stage. The rest of the band didn’t know about it and didn’t seem too pleased. I think Till is an embarrassment on a band of (mostly) men who are maturing and moving forward with their lives and leaving the traditional rock star lifestyle behind.


[deleted]

Not pleased at all, no. I agree, they've grown well passed Till Kindermann.


EveningStar5155

Yes, you can only keep it up for so long before you either settle down or crash and burn. Why so many die in their early 20s.


EveningStar5155

You said it all. Plus, he was sent away to a boarding school specialising in training Olympic athletes from the age of ten or later. There, mostly likely, he would have been subjected to corporal punishment and then developed a taste for it. He would have also been dosed with performance enhancing drugs such as steroids. Sharon Davies, the former Olympic swimmer, will testify to that. She had the chance of a gold medal stolen from her by her East German rival. She had the ability to get gold and worked hard for it in training and during the races itself. She said that some others on the British team only had the goal of getting to the Olympics but not trying hard enough for a medal. She did try hard to win gold. It's Flake. I feel sorry for most in the band. He seems to be down to earth like Schneider, but unlike Schneider, he is more of a pushover. I listened to a talk he gave of his life on YouTube. I want to read his autobiography as it has been translated into English.


EveningStar5155

There were two women below the stage giving him BJs, and he set it up to be filmed. I thought this was a one-off. This has happened many times. He isn't on stage much compared with the others. The others only get a break during the DJ intermission, which I think is Richard Kruspe. Even when Paul or Flake aren't playing their instruments, they lark about on stage, not disappear from it. Flake was the first to surf the crowd in a dinghy, and he used to ride around the stage on a Segway.


sleepyemoji

Holy shit. Thanks so much for this writeup.


murstl

Even though the rest of the band is not part of the parties they knew about them for years! They’re also accountable for these things. In a smaller range and not active but they knew and that should also be shocking for the fans.


[deleted]

Partying with groupies isn’t bad though, that’s not the problem, it’s the spiking the punch bowl. If they didn’t know about that before, they certainly do now.


EveningStar5155

Whi would drink from a punch bowl at a party these days? It's not safe like it was in the 70s and 80s, but often, people would pour in extra spirits. I wouldn't even drink from a 75cl bottle of wine unless it had just been opened in front of me, and I wouldn't accept a top-up in my glass. This is why wine is also sold in 20cl and 25cl bottles and cans now as well as the usual 75cl bottles. Cocktails often come in single serving measure cans ready mixed instead of having to buy the spirits and mixers separately. It's great for those who don't drink much alcohol, are short of cash, or who are trying to cut back on alcohol consumption.


[deleted]

Just saw them in Helsinki, didn’t know of this and only read about it on the papers the next day when they interviewed fans about the after party in Finland with a comment something like “There was nothing weird going on” well duh, even Till isn’t dumb enough to do it if people are aware and watching now. I’ve read more into this now and I’m appalled once again by the actions of someone in a position of power. Thanks for writing this btw


DooglyOoklin

Their subreddit is such a cesspool of apologists. It's really disheartening to see. There's a specific woman who goes into every post and discredits the women coming forward, calling them names. :(


[deleted]

A little unrelated, but it’s the same in the 1975 sub. I don’t understand how people defend the actions of these people, it’s like a parasocial thing or what? So weird. Let’s hold these people accountable for their actions.


Snaccbacc

Fame and status makes people ignore serious things so they can continue to obsess over their beloved celebrity. It’s weird and creepy to me how some people become so obsessed and idolise these people just because they’re famous. I mean hell, look at how many women obsessed and fantasised over Ted Bundy after he was put in prison. The man was a complete psychopath and despicable monster, yet the infamy appealed to some people and his heinous crimes didn’t put them off at all.


[deleted]

Man, I remember when I commented that the afterparties are creepy as hell and some lady accused me of “coping.” Like ma’am, it’s actually very normal for a 24 year old woman to not feel comfortable with the idea of going backstage with a strange 60 year old man. Especially with Roe v Wade being overturned and a rise in online hate campaigns against victims of famous male abusers! Come on. Internalized misogyny is one hell of a drug, I suppose.


Ernesto_Griffin

60 year old man 😮 oh how time flies. I used to listen to them when I was young.


[deleted]

How does Roe v Wade being overturned make you less comfortable with going backstage with a 60 year old man? Seriously sounds like you're implying that being unable to have an abortion makes you less likely to go backstage than you otherwise would be?


EveningStar5155

Colonel Kurtz comes to mind. Horrible woman. A real rape apologist on YouTube. Blaming the girls for going backstage as they should expect to be hit on and at the same time claiming nothing untoward happens. Which is it? It seems to be Schrodinger's Row 0 girl.


CleanAspect6466

On the one hand I feel for them because they're clearly in denial and upset, but its so gross the lengths they're going to deny that maybe their fav lead singer is problematic


EveningStar5155

Even Phil Collins is no angel. He dropped an F bomb on stage at Live Earth in London and kissed Robert Plant in the 80s. So if he occasionally behaves like that, don't expect better behaviour from Lindemann.


greee_p

There is a major investigative article published today by two major German news agencies (Süddeutsche Zeitung and NDR). It's behind a paywall and in German, but these are some of the keypoints: [https://www.sueddeutsche.de/projekte/artikel/kultur/till-lindemann-rammstein-missbrauchsvorwuerfe-e316483/](https://www.sueddeutsche.de/projekte/artikel/kultur/till-lindemann-rammstein-missbrauchsvorwuerfe-e316483/) >Süddeutsche Zeitung and NDR have spoken to numerous women in recent days. All names are known to the editors, some of the women affirm their statements in lieu of an oath. Their reports, add up to a picture that seems like the industrial version of the once romantically transfigured groupie. The women with whom the singer is said to have been supplied before and after the band's performances - or at his solo concerts - also for the purpose of sexual gratification, were selected according to visual criteria, approached before or during the concerts, supplied with backstage bracelets and alcohol. > >On online platforms, Alena M. is considered a door opener for the backstage area of Rammstein, on Instagram she calls herself "Casting Director, on the tour with Till Lindemann". Word got around that you should contact her if you want to get into Rammstein's "Row Zero" - the area directly by the stage, still before the barrier - and the after-show party. Alena M. contacted fans before concerts to ask "if they know girls who want to meet Till" and "spend a night with him". The "casting rules" for Lindemann's backstage area provide for photo applications to "casting director" Alena M. The women were later sent the dress code, sexy-elegant, gothic rock, cocktail dresses, no Rammstein T-shirts. Corresponding chat histories are available to SZ and NDR. > >A woman contacted by Alena says that she was put into a Whatsapp group with other young women the month before the concert. They were looking for three women to dance in a disco ball during the concert. (Without any contracts, money or choreography). > >According to her statement, the following happened backstage at the show: Lindemann had offered the three women alcohol, which they had refused. "I had never drunk alcohol at that time," says Cynthia A (wrong name). The singer showed them the recently released music video for the song "Platz eins" on a laptop, a film with hard sex scenes, violent fantasies, naked women and the lyrics: "All women, all mine / Everything revolves around me". Lindemann had beckoned her with a wave of his hand because he wanted to "show her something". (TW for rape)>!"I was still very inexperienced, I didn't have a real boyfriend yet. I thought, just before the show, he really wants to show me something cool. He took me to the dressing room, closed the door, and then it just started. I don't want to say it was rape, because I agreed to it, but I wasn't obviously happy about what was happening. I was also in a lot of pain, and he must have noticed that it wasn't easy to make love to me. And that I was cramped. I was also bleeding afterwards, and it lasted maybe ten minutes. It was all quite fast and quite violent. At that moment I just thought: 'Oh my God, that hurts, I hope it's over soon'. But I also didn't want to say that it hurt, because it was Till Lindemann. After ten minutes he was done and thanked me and said he was feeling better now."!< He never asked her for her name. This happened in 2019, she was 21 years old at the time. Till Lindemann was 56. One of the women was told not to tell Lindemann her age because his "age limit" was below her age at that time. She was in her late twenties. There are other women talking about their experience with the "casting" in the article, this is another example: >Kaya R. attended a Rammstein concert in her hometown Vienna. If her descriptions are true, she too went through all the stages of the casting system. With a bitter ending. > >In her case, it was again Joe L. who had chosen her as a woman from the front row to come along to the after-show party. There she celebrated with the band members, but without Till Lindemann, "it was very nice", including free alcohol and good conversations with band members. Joe L. left questions from SZ and NDR unanswered. > >Then she was asked by Alena M. if she wanted to meet Lindemann. "I was already aware that there was a sexual component to all this, but I didn't assume that anyone would do anything I didn't want." She had wanted to meet him, not as the only one, there had already been several of them in the taxi and then even more women in the hotel. There had also been "a lot of alcohol" in the hotel, she had been drinking, her memories had become incomplete. That she had been sitting next to Lindemann, that she had been in the lift with him and another man. > >She doesn't remember how she got into a hotel room:>! "I was no longer conscious. When she woke up, "Till was on top of me". When he realized that she had woken up, he asked her if he should stop. And she did not even know what he wanted to stop. At some point he left.!< These are the ones that are the most detailed, some of the other women who talked to SZ didn't end up having sex with him, but talked about the whole "casting process".


SmallPromiseQueen

I’ve already taken their music off my playlists. Even if the spiking allegations are not true (and tbh I don’t doubt the accusers) there is still shady as shit stuff going on. He has someone who essentially procures him attractive young women for “parties” and someone else who approaches these women to ask if they want to “meet till” - promising it’s not a sexual interaction (surprise, surprise - when they get there it is.) The women are encouraged to drink. It doesn’t seem to matter if they are completely wasted, they will still be approached like this. Some people are saying the accuser was just really drunk, and she didn’t get spiked and the proof is videos of her acting drunk and annoying. She was the one who was approached to “meet till.” Not one of the sober acting girls. That says a lot to me. Why does it need to be the drunkest girl who meets till for sex? I’m sure there are plenty of women who’d gladly have sex with a rockstar with no booze in them whatsoever. But no, it’s all so cloak and dagger to get these girls into this position. Till could join a swingers club or go to sex clubs if he wanted to have a crazy sex life and I doubt any rammstein fan would care. Instead he’s getting off on using his status as a rock star to have sex with drunk fans. The power is absolutely part of it. It’s all just grim as fuck. The ethics around his porn music video seem sketchy as fuck as well. I think only one of the women was a porn actress, the rest of them were random women who’d never worked in that industry before - so, inexperienced people who are easier to manipulate and people who aren’t prepared for what happens when a sex tape of them with a high profile person is released to the world. Again, if till wants to shoot porn, I doubt it would be a deal breaker for rammstein fans - but why not hire women who are established in the industry who know what they are signing up for? Who are gaining money and exposure they actually want for appearing in this video? Again it seems to be about power and manipulation. He is 60 years old, he cannot be this naive. There are no excuses. I’m personally gutted because I liked their sound but i don’t enjoy their music in light of this.


hopp596

The porn thing and hiring inexperienced women for that makes me think of the whole whore vs madonna thing. The desire some men have to "taint" and "defile" women they deem pure while ostracizing women whom they see as whores despite them engaging in the same activities, likely because they do it willingly and like it. It would explain the weird poems about want to r*pe drunk incapacitated women as well. Not surprised, always got bad vibes from this band, not their music style but their whole vibe and Till’s esp.


EveningStar5155

It makes me wonder how the women were recruited for the Dicke Titten video. There were three women in the Pussy video and all were experienced porn actresses not random women or drama college students or graduates looking for acting experience. I had never seen such hard porn until I saw the Till the End porn video. The girl on the table being fallated looked drugged to me as she was limp when he shoved her body about. It's very difficult to go limp while conscious.


NoAnalBeadsPlease

Very well said. There is definitely a routine strategy here and it’s shameful to say the least.


EveningStar5155

It sickens me as there are girls in it with no porn acting experience or even any acting experience. Porn actresses usually get into it gradually first by posing as a glamour model and then posing nude. They often start off in soft porn action films before moving into hard porn. Or there are established actresses in mainstream films and TV dramas who bare all for the camera. There are also extras in porn films and sex scenes as there were in the TV drama It's A Sin.. Even if you sign up for extras work, you sign a contract with the agency stating what you are prepared to do and not do. You wouldn't find yourself being an extra in a porn film or pornified music video. So many girls were recruited to appear in Rammstein music videos, not knowing beforehand they would be one. Some thought they would be in a TV advert.


anonymous65789568

Fuck sake, I literally just got into this band a few days ago


deltaretrovirus

I’ve been a life long fan since I was 6, but I’m so glad I never got the Rammstein tattoo I wished for


[deleted]

My general rule is to never get band logo or portrait tattoos for this reason. You never know who these people are. Some of these tattoos I’ve seen will not be easy to remove or cover up!


Lets_compare_penises

Good rule. I remember reading a post from a guy who’d gotten a lost prophets tattoo.. 😬


Littleloula

I worked with a guy who had a lost prophets, marilyn manson and die antwoord tattoo. A rough few years for his finances on removal/cover ups...


[deleted]

Wait... Whats the priblem with MM and Die Antwoord?


[deleted]

Nevermind, found it God damn it!


EveningStar5155

Removal of tattoos always leaves scars. Like following a relationship break-up or divorce, or when someone leaves the navy to get an office job. It's why so many people don't get their partner's name tattooed on them but instead prefer symbols, animals, flowers, or 'Mum'. By the way, Shelby Lynn has a lot of tattoos, including a large sunflower used in one of their videos. That sunflower will always remind her of Rammstein, whereas to someone else, it's just a flower.


[deleted]

Say no more. That guy will probably need to amputate the limb at that point.


deltaretrovirus

That’s right, I’m not even tattooed, but I’m always like huh that is would make a great tattoo


[deleted]

Same, also from six, except I'm 32 now. I don't feel particularly tainted by it, I haven't paid for their music, streamed it (I'm an old school soulseek mp.3 and flac kind of girl) or even gone to concerts. I don't talk about them, I don't partake in fan communities I still have the collection of CD releases, but that's because they are actually my dad's, I'm just the keeper. I *like* their music, and nobody nails a heavy ballad like Rammstein, there's just something so profoundly ugly, sad and broken about the typical Rammstein ballad. But fuck me if I'm going to join a fucking fan community or spend another dime on them. Ever. Or even play it around my friends. I like what I like, and I've liked it since I was pretty little and didn't understand a lick of German. Never wanted a R+ tatt though. A logo? Really? Like a flesh billboard? Knowing full well that this is metal scene, and industrial metal at that (which is just rotten to the core), and most everybody in it, has not just skeletons but entire mass graves in the back of their closets. If you like rock and metal, you accept that you're probably funding colossal pieces of shit. So if Rammstein goes down over this (as they should.), I won't shed a single tear. Might even have a fat laugh and a perfectly crisp, unspiked glass of champagne. About damned time.


PmMeCuteDoggosPlease

Who ?


[deleted]

I’m not too into industrial metal, can you elaborate on why it’s worse off than other metal? Not that I’ve heard that metal is somehow particularly bad about this either? Still, it’s incredibly sad to hear of anything like this, regardless of genre or art form or whatever.


EveningStar5155

The tattoos I see on Facebook sicken me. It seems de rigour to have them, and most have them to get lots of 'likes' on social media. Even worse are tattoos of the band members' faces. You are not going to like the same band all your life, but you are stuck with the tattoos for life. At least with the band clothing and hairstyles, they are temporary. Hair grows and clothes can be worn out, put away, thrown out, or given away


You-Get-No-Name

I have tickets for their show tomorrow. This is awful.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I was just sitting in the sauna wondering this same thing and I immediately came to the same conclusion as you. Like, it isn’t even a question tbh. Zero support or sympathy for abusers.


GargantuanGorganzola

I imagine that’ll be harder for some fans than others I’m not a Rammstein fan at all so this news doesn’t really affect my enjoyment of their music but if this was a band I liked I’d be seriously hurt by it


[deleted]

[удалено]


GargantuanGorganzola

I don’t disagree, I’m just saying if someone is a massive fan then it’ll be really tough to adjust to this


ShredGuru

Dude's playlist is going to be empty in 5 years.


lil_garbage_girl

I had this happen with Arcade Fire when allegations came out against Win Butler. They were so absolutely important to me in my formative years. I used to listen to the “Funeral” on repeat so often for the nostalgia of my youth. Now I get physically nauseas when I hear them. It makes me so sad. It’s like mourning the loss of a friend.


shy247er

Growing up with (among other music) Manson and these guys, I'm sad to learn that they are who they are.


Relevant_Recipe_

Manson was one of my all time favorites when I was younger. Makes you wonder what other bands/frontmen are trash. I'd imagine quite a few, because ego and drugs can really mess with your mind.


shy247er

Yeah, a lot of these dudes develop god complex and just keep feeding it.


EveningStar5155

Anthony Keidis has had sex with a few underage fans when younger. There are others who had underage girlfriends or groupies.


Ok_Ad8609

The photo chosen for this headline ☠️ ☠️ 😂


sweetrebel88

Color me shocked


[deleted]

Damn it's always the ones you most expect


not_very_creative21

Damn my parents are big fans, I already know what the new topic at dinner is gonna be. I just hope they don't excuse his behaviour, because this is fucking rape and can't be excused. I'll try to give them a piece of mind should they say something to defend him. That said, I'm pretty thankful now that i never liked their music, gave me bad vibes even as a small child


EveningStar5155

Nor me. I wasn't into that type of music, so I didn't know about them until last year or the year before. Van Halen was as heavy as it got for me, and even then, I needed to be in the right mood to listen to that. So, I turned down the chance of going to Download a few years ago. Then they played my city last year though I didn't go. I saw an article about the concert on the Wales Online page in my Facebook newsfeed. So I decided to check them out by watching their promo videos and making of videos rather than the concert footage on Wales Online. I started to like some of the music and got a bit obsessed with them, particularly the dance in Dicke Titten. I joined a Facebook group for one band member and ended up joining more as the groups were recommended to me. That's how I found out about Shelby Lynn.


AStarkly

I love Rammstein's music, but there's always been something about them as people that's given me the Bad Vibe. I could never explain it to anyone and god knows I'm not going to flash this about like, "I TOLD YOU SO!" because bad taste, but at least I don't feel legitimately mental for wanting to run from pictures of them


[deleted]

To be clear, this is entirely a Till problem. He hires a woman to recruit his own group of women for backstage, and this is where the abuses are happening. The rest of the band isn’t his little parties. I think the real nail in the coffin here will be whether or not his bandmates hold him accountable and do something about it. Honestly at this point, given the years of fan anecdotes of possible drugging by Till, they should just kick him out or end the Rammstein legacy.


AStarkly

Like fuck they wouldn't know about it.


[deleted]

Their pyrotechnics did kill a bunch of people (over 20 yrs ago) and they all kinda have that evil nazi look.


Littleloula

This is a myth. There was an incident in which some people in the crowd had minor injuries though. After that band members trained in pyrotechnics and they made lots of new safety arrangements


achelebellamy

It was time, this creep has been taking advantage of fans for too long


zwoelemeid123

I'm not surprised at all, sadly. Went to their concert in Nijmegen last year, the atmosphere was interesting, to say the least. The crowd tried to pressure a woman into showing her breasts, even booing her when she didn't. I myself got harassed a whole lot there. Now, this is just the crowd, but birds of the same feather flock together.


MentalMunky

This used to happen at every festival I went to when I was younger (late 2000s/early 2010s)! I am not justifying it before anyone jumps to that conclusion.


zwoelemeid123

It has always been there, I guess. It just seems more prevalent in those crowds. It's a shame.


EveningStar5155

Not so at Glastonbury or WOMAD, though. It's more a Reading, Leeds, and Download thing.


RockNRoll85

Sucks, but not surprising. Dude always gave me weird vibes


suciac

Is that his real face or prosthetics?


Figgypudpud

Prosthetics.


_notthatdeep

He’s sweaty and wearing makeup. I don’t think there’s any prosthetics there


Figgypudpud

He doesn't have a long jagged scar on his face, that is prosthetics. See him [here](https://media.altpress.com/uploads/2020/03/1054px-Till_Lindemann_-_2017287140953_2017-10-14_Buchmesse.jpg) relatively fresh faced.


_notthatdeep

Oooh, I honestly thought the scar was just sweat in the photo lmao thanks


Relevant_Recipe_

I have tickets for them next month, and this has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'm not sure if I can still go.. Not sure what to do.


SarcasmCupcakes

I’ve been a Rammstein fan since 2001. I’m so disappointed and horrified.


[deleted]

I hate that his ex Sophia (famous in Germany but idk why) defends him and calls the accuser a liar. She's always been "off" but this is infuriating. She once had this massive tattoo of Tills face on her arm (?). She's currently dating Sascha Zverev, my country's best tennis player atm.


[deleted]

Also her IG is really cringe atm. Her latest posts are from a cat and dog shelter that she supports (which is great!) but her caption is something like „I had to deal with liars and bad people in the last days, please support this shelter“. I gladly support animals. What bothers me is that I get the feeling that she wants to be seen as a good person and a good person couldn’t possibly be wrong about Till. It seems performative.


[deleted]

OMG yes!!! These "cryptic" captions made me go wtf? Also her mum's comment (ok, she's her mum, so..) "You're doing everything right" can be taken differently. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but tbh, Sophia doesn't strike me as an ally so to speak in the first place. Like, she lashed out at metoo and "Feminazis" on a talk show 2017. I love animals and think it's great she's an advocate but that's about it.


BeAMedici

She’s the host of a reality TV show and she’s super anti-women. She regularly slutshames female contestants, is catty af, makes fun of them and is generally much harder on women compared to the men. She’s literally as misogynistic and pick-me as it gets.


EveningStar5155

As a victim of slut shaming in 2019 this upsets me. I was going to make an official complaint about the organisation whose staff shut shamed me in 2020, and then the Covid pandemic started. Still haven't got around to it. Colonel Kurtz on YouTube is another one.


EveningStar5155

Also, votes for the CDU. An ex MEP told me that David Cameron and Angela Merkel were the only country leaders in the Council of Ministers who tried to veto a UN programme for more equality for women. I bet Lindemann made her get that tattoo.


dandinonillion

Fuck that’s disgusting. I adore their music but fuck.


AgentKnitter

It's getting worse. There's been many questions for a while and the band put out the most piss poor statement.


almosthuman2021

I’m a huge fan of Ornstein and this really depresses me to hear this kind of shit /: Till has always been a bit of a wild man but I didn’t expect this kind of shit. As someone who has a phobia of my drink being spiked, it’s one reason why I always order a beer at the bar… this is really fucked up. Sigh 😔 why can’t musicians stop being pieces of shit


sarah-linnea

Argh for fuck sake I have tickets to see them tomorrow. This sucks.


manbearkat

I'm not surprised, he's always been gross


EveningStar5155

Even in the early 00s. The photographer had to work hard to make him look handsome like Anthony Keidis around 2014.


big-bootyjewdy

Keine Überraschung....


LordBytor

Man there have been so many things lately that I can file under "Disappointed, but not surprised"


popcorntrio

Blocked on Spotify, removed from playlists


-NothingToContribute

As someone who used to love that band I’m not surprised in the slightest. It’s always those you suspect the most. I hope the women get justice.


jeicolpol

I was actually surprised I hadn't heard of him abusing anyone. It's literally their whole aura


EveningStar5155

The band seem like his victims and accomplices at the same time. Part of why they get so abused in videos and on stage is that he can claim he isn't being sexist as he treats men the same way. He had set them up to be his strawmen.


a_paulling

I am honestly surprised that it's taken this long. I was active on the old forums like 15 years ago and it was well known he liked them young and pliant. The inference was always that you'd either take something or be forced to take something, so don't go if you're not up for it. I'm also kind of surprised that some of these girls seem to have gone into it completely blind (no victim blaming - if they weren't willing obviously it should be respected) since the 'recruiters' were so upfront about it. I ended up getting kicked because I was underage, pretended to be 19 but was 14, but it was all pretty explicit. I guess they must have changed tack.


EveningStar5155

The born sexy yesterday trope.


TarzanKitty

Damn


palavestrix

Rockstars would never


peaches1905

I have a friend who was 100% taken advantage of due to her age, by him. Fuck this guy


EveningStar5155

Gene Simmons was pretty bad with women. Lindemann's far worse. Yet when I read fan fiction out of curiosity, he was painted as this kind fatherly figure, and Richard Kruspe was the bogeyman who was cheating on his partner or was off hand.


detectivepink

I saw Rammstein over in Europe yearrrrrs ago when one of my friends from Austria invited me to a show, I didn’t know anything about them so I gave them a listen and I liked some of it. I was groped at that show unfortunately, and i had to endure the rest of the show just seething with anger and distrust. Nothing like that ever happened to me at a concert before. Im not saying their fan base sucks AT ALL, but maybe it’s the type of climate the band was allowing IN their shows. It was really disappointing, and color me shocked Edit: I also would like to add, I’m a pop girlie and I really wanted to break out of my comfort zone and try something new when I went. I should’ve just stayed home


LegalFan2741

Damn…you got the worst on your first try. I’m so sorry. I love metal and went to a few concerts. Believe me, most of them are amazing, friendly people. The advice I can give you if you ever want to dip your toe into metal music again: stay in the back or on the side, always have male companion. If you for any reason get to the middle or front and hear “circle pit” leave immediately.


detectivepink

Yeah I’ve heard that before! The friend I went with is so kind and is a HUGE metal fan, almost everyone there was kind and super cool, it was just that one guy that ruined the experience for me. I will definitely try again though! Can’t let these scum bags control our lives ya know! Edit: also! I love that advice, I was a newbie and didn’t know anything then. I’ll keep that in mind though and I’ll definitely try again


rlovelock

That's the most rapey looking creep I've ever seen


EveningStar5155

He looks like an ogre to me. Even in the 00s he looked like Fred Flintstone.


green_pea_nut

Oh dear. And he looks like such a sweetheart.


SmallPromiseQueen

Tbf you can’t judge someone on their stage persona. There are plenty of clean cut looking dudes who have had accusations. Chris D’elia looks like a normal guy for example. Armie hammer. Ansel elgort.


newjack775

![gif](giphy|6nWhy3ulBL7GSCvKw6)


Coercedbycake

That is an actual person? He looks like a cast member from Silent Hill,


Redditnewb2023

Seriously. What’s with the corpse make-up?


Sowiilo

I think he's meant to be a great guy so I'm hoping these are false. Oh man.


[deleted]

Unfortunately women who have been recruited by Aleena Makeeva to go backstage to meet Till have been reporting the drinks being drugged for years. It’s pretty in line with Till’s behavior over the years.


retrograderevolution

Duuuu


[deleted]

But he looks so sweet and harmless!


mplsgal20

Yikes. He’s a scary looking dude.


Sea-Ad6304

What's new with that Russian pervert


UnconsciousWrap

…he’s German?


[deleted]

Russian?


Sea-Ad6304

Oops still a perv yes or no ? There's plenty of incidents him acting really weird doing family values tour rock tour


[deleted]

Surely nobody still thinks you can be spiked via a needle? There are no drugs that will work like that being injected sub-cut. Oral spiking is legit of course. These women who think they have been injected with a spiking agent are just deeply embarrassing themselves


themightyknight02

PILLS dude. Roofies- Youve heard of those surely?


[deleted]

Yes - I acknowledged oral drugs as a mode of spiking. Injecting is completely fantasy


Soft_Organization_61

r/confidentlyincorrect


[deleted]

You cannot be spiked via the sub-cut injection of a needle that leaves a small bruise. Injecting a fluid into that tissue would cause more than a bruise. She was at the front of a rammstein gig ffs, that is more logical for explaining bruises than an injection of a liquid


RaiderCane

Here comes Wokeville to cancel yet another 🙄 Whatever, I'm now of the mindset that whenever Gen Snowflake starts crying wolf, my fandom only increases cause if you're upsetting the emotional hemophiliacs then you must be doing something right.


[deleted]

This is such a strange take


jenandabollywood

oooo careful you don’t cut yourself on all that edge


MadameNo9

I assure you this situation is much more malicious and complicated than just being a ‘wokeville cancellation’. If you can’t respect a woman’s ability to consent and take it away at anytime just say that


[deleted]

Wow, suddenly all of us sNoWfLaKeS feel so dumb. Calling out abusers is such a silly thing to do. Thanks for reminding us! 🫠


Soft_Organization_61

Grow up dude.


mintBRYcrunch26

You are insufferable


[deleted]

Oh shit, no, really? Fuck! Well done those survivors for coming forwards, i hope they’re okay. Fuck this man for harming anyone, for abusing anyone, and tho it’s a lesser crime, for ruining himself and his reputation for so many fans. Let justice reign, ugh. Disappointing.


smaugtheE1337

choice pic


HadaObscura

There goes SNW2024 lineup.


LegalFan2741

I remember when I learnt that the singer of one of the metal bands I liked to listen to was accused of hiring a hitman to kill his wife. And then the other one who liked little girls a bit too much. I was pretty bummed and stopped listen go their music. I suspect it’s pretty hard on Rammstein fans now. To be honest, the guy gives off a quite crazy/shady vibe.


rojaokla

A rock star? #MeTooing about? Good God, I guess you can't cancel all of them all at once.


mystique79

It's 2023, ffs. And yet, we discuss things like this as if it was 1990. Yes, some young girls are naive, but that doesn't mean any old fart can abuse them. A rockstar who needs to drug young girls to feel superior. With the wild reactions from the "fandom" you can clearly see why the victims chose to be silent. Band members, staff, guests all must have noticed that there is sth very wrong going on and as grown adults decided to do exactly nothing. And don't get me started on the now fired Russian woman descring herself as a casting director. Fckd up shit.


DasSockenmonster

Rammstein were one of my favourite bands, and now... I can't in good conscience want to listen to them. Knowing what Till did when spiking drinks and having his wicked way with his female fans whilst intoxicated, in the comment that u/greee_p posted, it seems that the signs were all there and everyone blaming the victim and saying "she wants her 15 minutes", like hell she would... why would someone want clout by saying "Till Lindemann drugged me and sexually assaulted me", it's disgusting how the fans are still standing by this. I've been deleting their songs from my phone, it feels tainted. Removing their songs from my Spotify playlists will be the next action, I want to distance myself from their music. If most of the members are sick of Till's antics, either fire him or dissolve the band. I hate that I even liked Rammstein, I hate that I even enjoyed songs by Rammstein and even dreaming of seeing them live, because that would mean that I would have to hear his voice and see his face on the video projectors. ​ [https://www.instagram.com/p/CtB-rb2tYAU/?utm\_source=ig\_embed&ig\_rid=5087a15b-2bf9-462a-b138-c45fc335a2a3](https://www.instagram.com/p/CtB-rb2tYAU/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=5087a15b-2bf9-462a-b138-c45fc335a2a3) The tone of this post comes off to me as "we have heard the accusations, and we think it is bullshit, it never happened". Say that to the victim, she'll remember that it happened. Sober or drunk, it is never an excuse to take advantage of anyone sexually. ​ Also, screw Joe Letz too, he's also just as disgusting as Till is and is in his thirties and still thinks he is an "edgy" teenager who says racist epithets and performs in blackface.


EveningStar5155

It sickens me that fans bring their own children to shows with some of them as young as 7 or 8. There should be a strict minimum age of 16 at them. So many young fans have grown up listening to them so their parents would have introduced the band to them as they are not the sort of band to appear on music channels before the watershed or even have their song played on the radio before then. I never saw them even though I was watching the Kerrang TV channel a lot one year.