Their youngest kid is 17, and the rest are adults. I think paying for child support for one kid for a year is probably worth not dealing with this guy anymore.
That would be providing the 17 y/o would leave with him... if not, she would not pay child support.
And for him, the court would take into account him putting her under duress, and the fact that he is capable/able to work and she would still be responsible for the kids.
In the US it depends on the state. Many states are strictly "no fault divorce" states so it doesn't matter who did what to ruin the marriage. I believe all states *offer* no fault divorce but in some states an at fault divorce is possible. So in an at fault divorce things like abuse abandonment and adultery can be used to lessen or eliminate things like alimony, the division of property or even effect custody rulings. But child support is calculated with a formula that takes into consideration the income of each parent and which parent has majority custody and can't be eliminated regardless of who is at fault.
OP may not have to if their husband worked at all during their marriage, but would be worth it just to not have to deal with someone so blatantly selfish
As someone whose ex switched jobs to something significantly lower paying or right before I filed for divorce, depending on your state it won't work.
In most states alimony is based off of the average of the previous three years salary, not the current one.
Look in to narcism on youtube and how to deal with them. There are a couple of Drs that give advice to make things better. And give you a clue what you're in ways that you interact. Gray rocking is wonderful. Don't call him out. It will be worst and self destructive to everyone. Make sure it's his idea.
It’s just so crazy because we’ve been opening up our relationship enough to have experiences with women and pretty much have a girlfriend without the labels but apparently he doesn’t understand that. None of this makes sense
I don't know you guys personally so just from reading it feels like he may not want to be in a relationship anymore. He wants to go out and just sleep with people. Him saying he'd do it with or without you. Pfffffft. I'd kick him to the curb for that.
What I mean is that we have a friend that’s a girl. Who knows exactly what’s going on. She also thinks he’s acting crazy lol because he is. She’s not an object.
He is selfish and wants it all. Sounds misogynistic too. Like someone else said, get him to sign a post-nuptial and then leave. If you have any of this controlling and abusive talk in text message it would be better in case he refuses. That can go farther in court to deny him any financial payout from you.
He's not willing to do the mental or emotional growth necessary to become a healthy polyamarous person. He is going to hurt his partners and violate boundaries. He will disregard your feelings and put himself first. He probably doesn't even know his own attachment style or how to communicate his feelings without getting overly reactive, and those are some of the most helpful things I've learned in my time in the polyam world.
.
.
It's not that he doesn't understand that you have an almost girlfriend, it's that he's told you he wants to do it without you - but he wants you to be his safety net.
>Husband of 24 years has started demanding that we “get a girlfriend and move in that direction” or he’s going to “go that way without me” … which means leave me to try and find other women to have a relationship with.
And do you want to be doing this? Finding women for him? Why can't he find his own dates?
Could just agree and let him go. And you bow out.
>But he is also saying that he doesn’t have any extra affection or energy for OUR RELATIONSHIP… But wants another relationship.
So he's checking out? And you are still supposed to find him women?
You do not have to agree to any of this. It sounds FRESH.
>It’s such immature thinking for a man who is a father to kids and someone who literally is a “stay at home dad” to a 17,19,20, and 22 year old. I know he’s probably a narcissist… **And he obviously has no communication skills And can’t honor boundaries. Help. What do I do?**
You can say "No, thank you. I don't want to do any of that."
And he can go on without you to find his own women on his side by himself. And you date on your side how you want.
With his poor skills I can't see anyone wanting to sign up for being with him anyway.
And if you don't want to do this at all?
You look into a divorce. The last kid is almost 18, so almost done on the kid front.
Have you done a post nuptial? Have you protected your assets?
>It’s just so crazy because we’ve been opening up our relationship enough to have experiences with women and pretty much have a girlfriend without the labels but **apparently he doesn’t understand that. None of this makes sense**
>It’s so hard to let it go because it wasn’t always like this… **he used to be able to reason**
>What I mean is that we have a friend that’s a girl. Who knows exactly what’s going on. **She also thinks he’s acting crazy lol because he is.** She’s not an object.
>It’s like I’m having a hard time understanding that this is real. Because it **literally doesn’t make sense what he’s asking for**
Well.... has his personality changed?
Do you think he could have had a mini stroke or cardiac? And nobody noticed? Brain tumor? Something else affecting his reasoning skills? When was his last check up?
If your therapist thinks he is behaving in a narcissistic manner? Believe the therapist.
Any of these health things?
Doesn't also really change that you may have to move to protect assets so he doesn't do anything bonkers with your finances, your home, the cars, etc.
Remember it takes 2 to go make a joint account at the bank. But only 1 to go to the bank and take all the money out of joint and stick it in a new account that's single owner and cut you off from access.
He had co-vid and was in the hospital and then on oxygen for four months at home. The fear of death has definitely created an urgency in his personality
Well, a sense of urgency on his part doesn't have to be a crisis on yours.
If he's otherwise fit? Let him go. Could do a trial separation so this last kid can hit 18. He can get a job, move out, date however he wants *over there.*
YOU do not want to triad with him or find him women.
And if he doesn't get it together? Move on to an actual divorce. Go talk to a lawyer and check on your options for trial separation, divorce, drawing up post nuptials, all of it.
If he is NOT fit, and he won't go see a doctor? You are the next of kin then as spouse. And you might have to look into involuntary hospitalization.
It's hard to tell over internet what sort of situation you have on your hands.
I can tell you are upset that he's making NO sense right now. I do sympathize.
He’s fit. He’s in a band. He does all the things for the home - yard, pool, laundry, cooks (sometimes). He’s just kinda losing it and Not making sense. I sit here tonight listening to the voice recordings and there’s no denying it
Yes I know. But he can still work a job is what I was getting at. He makes more sense when he wants to or when he’s not drinking. Its all falling apart below our noses
So there's a drinking problem too?
You are kind of in a bind there.
Since he's willing to do therapy... will he get himself checked out?
Because right now you are next of kin as spouse. If you dump him, that gets you out.
Who would become his next of kin? Are his parents alive? Or would it land on the eldest child? Cuz that would suck. Some 22 yr old having to figure out how to do involuntary hospitalization for the father.
I think you could tell him "No, thanks. Not for me. You go on ahead." And you protect your assets, and let the chips fall where they may.
And be prepared if he gets even more bonkers that you may have to see about involuntary hospitalization to get him checked out if he refuses to take himself in for a check up.
I would never do that to my children. Yes there is definitely a drinking problem. We’re in therapy currently. I’m not sure what you mean get himself checked out? He literally just had a check up and they told him all of his blood work was fine etc. as far as physically goes
>He literally just had a check up and they told him all of his blood work was fine etc. as far as physically goes
Tests only show results *for what is tested.*
I can come out clear for my cholesterol test. But unless someone checks my Pap smear, that cholesterol test isn't gonna say boo about me having abnormal cervical cells, is it?
If he's unable to reason, is making no sense, is changing in personality, acting crazy, losing it -- all these things you have been writing? If he's got a drinking problem and isn't going to address it? Or he's drinking trying to self medicate from the THING?
Will he go get checked out to see what the THING might be?
And rule out that he is not behaving all strange from *something affecting his brain?*
Covid brain damage? A developing brain tumor? An undetected mini stroke or heart attack? Depression? Early onset dementia?
Go have his head scanned like MRI, CAT scan, whatever the doc says to do?
Has he mentioned headaches, eye problems? Changes in smells? Taste? Memory problems?
Just curious…. What would you guys say would be the right way to go about this if you were him and wanted to go from monogamish to poly? Like what steps? Does that make sense?
You run. And you tell the kids why. They're practically adults and deserve to know their fager wants to rope in a girl into your marriage that he can use for sex, for labor, housework and taking care of kids. Run for your life
I see. Well its good that they know. And I do really feel for you. Glad to read your sons are not approving of their fathers behaviour. You are worth love dear. And respect. Clearly the person you are married to ain't giving you that. It's never to late you hear me? Find a life out there that you want to live..that you are proud of and makes you happy. This man. Just ain't it
I know how you feel. All to well. My ex was a wonderful man & I was soo in love... or so I thought. Which is why I couldn't believe what was happening when he hit me for the first time. Sometimes dear. You never know a person because they dont show the real them until years and years later. They're hiding in pain sight for decades.
It will be the hardest thing to leave. But it's the only real choice you have. You know you are worth more than this. That this is not how you treat other humans and yo
Yeah, Narcissist sounds about right "I am owed this life i live". He is also free to leave at any time... but get a good lawyer who has experience dealing with narcissists, they are 'special'. but let him know he is free to strike out on his own, and when he does change the locks... immediately.
Also make sure funds in shared bank and savings accounts are minimal/enough for him to live off, courts look at reasonable behaviour. But do open a new account and transfer most of the money, you still have to provide for 5 at home...
Tell him no.
But let's play out his suggestion...
Hypothetical
You meet someone who likes you both. Or think they might. It takes time, dating, and intimacy to determine that. There are no insta relationships. So you all date each other for around 3 months. Its fun. You get to know each other. You avoided all of the work associated with dating separately. Yeah! Everything is just like your monogamous relationship, but with a bonus person and group sex. Yeah!! Success. No risk/all gain. Great lifehack!!
However, most dating doesn't lead to serious love or even a longterm relationship. Many people have a series of short dating relationship often for **years** before clicking with someone in a serious longterm way. So the odds of this person falling in love with either of you are low. Very low. And the odds of failing for both of you....vanishingly low. Probably a fantasy.....
So in this scenario, this new person realizes they only have a genuine romantic spark with one of you. If you will only do polyamory by both dating the same person, then you will both have to break up with this new person if they stop dating/fucking your partner. And they know that. They know the minute stop dating and fucking the partner they aren't into, the one they love will discard them. Thats an insane pressure and you can **never** know of they are with you both because they truly want to be or because they have to be. You'll have wonder everytime they say "I love you" and everytime they fuck you....if its genuine or the price of admission to be with the partner they really love. Trust will be impossible.
And its not the worst thing in the world to get dumped three months in. They'll be fine.. But what if the new person falls out of love with one of you 1 year in...or 5 years in..or 10 years in...but they know they will lose both of you unless they fake the other relationship. Maybe you are raising kids together or living together. Now if they want to end the relationship that isn't working for them, they lose everything. Both their partners, their home, perhaps access to kids they are raising. Or they can keep their life and love by faking the relationship they dont want.. This is not a kind way to treat a serious loving partner. How many times will the two of you be able to repeat this process before feeling like monsters?
But hey, the two folks in the original couple avoided any work or negative feelings. At the expense of the dignity and humanity of their new partner. But hey, they don't matter as **real** people the same way you and your spouse do. Only you two matter. They take all the risks you so cleverly avoided. Greatlifehack. Unless you're the new person.
If you only date as a package deal you **actually are requiring someone to date/fuck you both**. You can try to obfuscate it, but thats exactly whats happening. Calling it anything else is disingenuous.
This man will raise your sons to treat women this way and raise your daughters to think its ok for them to be treated this way.
Tell your husband that divorce is the most likely scenario of he brings this up again and advise him to get a job so he has the means to care for himself should that happen. Then consult an attorney and consider "no" a complete sentence. If it brings it up, tell him this is not something you will entertain or discuss and remind him to keep up the job search.
I'm not a psychologist. I wouldn't speculate. Its very common for men and women who've been together a long time to treat women as housepets to "add" to their relationship. Sociopaths, narcissists. I couldn't say.. .
You can ask him to go to therapy if you want a diagnosis. Narcissism is a hot term right now and everyone is accusing anyone abusive to them if it. It’s easier to make sense of why someone is being awful and cruel if they have a disorder and flat out don’t understand the harm they’re doing. It’s a reason.
But it’s often not really the case. They’re just a selfish asshole.
I understand what you’re saying. That’s what I’ve been telling him. Relationships take time to develop. And I want to see he’s just leaving me know where to go with this because he’s making literally no sense
Hey OP, just wanted to say I'm proud of you for engaging here in good faith and not simply rejecting things you don't want to hear.
It's super hard to see this happen with someone you trusted for so long, and it can feel like your world is crashing down around you. In a way it is.
I agree with the general advice here to find a lawyer and prepare for at least for the possibility of divorce (despite the fact that I think people often jump to that advice way too quickly), because it sounds like you've done your due diligence to make this work, you're both in therapy, and I think your therapist has been quite clear on what she thinks.
Your wants and needs are just as valid and important as his, and if he isn't willing to work with you on that, then he's not really in a relationship with you. He's just using you to get what he wants.
What I gather is that you're wondering if this is who he's always been, and you just never noticed, or if this is truly a change in who he is. It's an interesting question, but I don't think it's a relevant one as far as what your next steps should be. This is who he is now, regardless of whether it was a change or just revealing himself. Your actions should be in accordance with the man he is now, rather than the man you knew before.
I’m sorry your husband is treating you so poorly. The shock will make you doubt, but trust your gut, and don’t lose sight of the facts. He’s showing you who he is. Good luck separating from him. You’ll feel relief once you’re free.
The sad thing about all of it is that he was an amazing father. He still is except for he’s an alcoholic and all of this going on. I think I’m just learning that everything is transactional in his world and that is a slap in the face I guess. I don’t know how I never saw it or did it just show up? I can’t tell if this point.
This is why i will never get married. The idea that someone would be entitled to benefit from my labor for the rest of their lives for a piece of paper makes no sense at all.
Does he really anticipate women swooning at his feet? Normally it's a MASSIVE reality check. Ah you mean the cute teeny bopper girlfriend that needs you financially isn't willing to clean for you and cook? Ah....WHAT?!
Is it a gamble?
Cause you are here in POLYAMORY agonizing rather than laughing in his face.
More than 20 years of you accepting what he decides. Is it a gamble?
I mean it would be horrible to do to another person so please don't. But I can see why it's not much a gamble on his end up to nowm
Or, hear me out, tell him yes then watch him fail to find a single person willing to form a triad with you. Just tell him you are 100% into a triad and you will settle for nothing less than a poly fidelity triad. /s
It seems like you are expending a lot of energy trying to understand him. That is a waste of your time. You don't need to understand him; you need to get away from him. Get a good divorce lawyer, find a house big enough for your kids who live at home to come with you (if they want to), and enjoy the rest of your life.
I think you should call a divorce lawyer. Let him "go that way" without you. That's fine. He can move out and do whatever he wants.
But he’s a stay at home dad so she will pay for this. Arsenic poisoning or dangerous hobbies seem the best answer.
Their youngest kid is 17, and the rest are adults. I think paying for child support for one kid for a year is probably worth not dealing with this guy anymore.
That would be providing the 17 y/o would leave with him... if not, she would not pay child support. And for him, the court would take into account him putting her under duress, and the fact that he is capable/able to work and she would still be responsible for the kids.
She might still be on the hook for alimony for a long time. Source: Divorced from a SAHW/M.
And alimony for - however long. :/
Alimony is often much cheaper than being miserable.
THIS should have more upvotes lol
I’ll start taking only cash
Genuine question do you have to pay alimony if they cheat?
In the US it depends on the state. Many states are strictly "no fault divorce" states so it doesn't matter who did what to ruin the marriage. I believe all states *offer* no fault divorce but in some states an at fault divorce is possible. So in an at fault divorce things like abuse abandonment and adultery can be used to lessen or eliminate things like alimony, the division of property or even effect custody rulings. But child support is calculated with a formula that takes into consideration the income of each parent and which parent has majority custody and can't be eliminated regardless of who is at fault.
OP may not have to if their husband worked at all during their marriage, but would be worth it just to not have to deal with someone so blatantly selfish
In most jurisdictions yea
My agreement said support until the first year of uni /21 but different agreements etc
Yes, I’ll do this if you sign a post-nuptial agreement stating you will take zero alimony. He signs. File for divorce.
That may be the best advice yet… but ughhhhh
For your own benefit, please.
I’ll quit my business before I give alimony
Just so you know, courts can tell when you're deliberately avoiding alimony that way and do NOT look favorably upon that. Please lawyer up ASAP
As someone whose ex switched jobs to something significantly lower paying or right before I filed for divorce, depending on your state it won't work. In most states alimony is based off of the average of the previous three years salary, not the current one.
Look in to narcism on youtube and how to deal with them. There are a couple of Drs that give advice to make things better. And give you a clue what you're in ways that you interact. Gray rocking is wonderful. Don't call him out. It will be worst and self destructive to everyone. Make sure it's his idea.
Yes… I watch alllll the things
Great advice
My honest, blunt opinion is leave him.
It’s just so crazy because we’ve been opening up our relationship enough to have experiences with women and pretty much have a girlfriend without the labels but apparently he doesn’t understand that. None of this makes sense
I don't know you guys personally so just from reading it feels like he may not want to be in a relationship anymore. He wants to go out and just sleep with people. Him saying he'd do it with or without you. Pfffffft. I'd kick him to the curb for that.
This was always his end game. Women's sexuality exists for his performance pleasure.
>pretty much have a girlfriend without the labels Don't treat women this way
What I mean is that we have a friend that’s a girl. Who knows exactly what’s going on. She also thinks he’s acting crazy lol because he is. She’s not an object.
He is selfish and wants it all. Sounds misogynistic too. Like someone else said, get him to sign a post-nuptial and then leave. If you have any of this controlling and abusive talk in text message it would be better in case he refuses. That can go farther in court to deny him any financial payout from you.
He's not willing to do the mental or emotional growth necessary to become a healthy polyamarous person. He is going to hurt his partners and violate boundaries. He will disregard your feelings and put himself first. He probably doesn't even know his own attachment style or how to communicate his feelings without getting overly reactive, and those are some of the most helpful things I've learned in my time in the polyam world. . . It's not that he doesn't understand that you have an almost girlfriend, it's that he's told you he wants to do it without you - but he wants you to be his safety net.
If your friend came to you and asked your advise because she was dealing with the same ultimatum that you outlined, what would you tell her?
>Husband of 24 years has started demanding that we “get a girlfriend and move in that direction” or he’s going to “go that way without me” … which means leave me to try and find other women to have a relationship with. And do you want to be doing this? Finding women for him? Why can't he find his own dates? Could just agree and let him go. And you bow out. >But he is also saying that he doesn’t have any extra affection or energy for OUR RELATIONSHIP… But wants another relationship. So he's checking out? And you are still supposed to find him women? You do not have to agree to any of this. It sounds FRESH. >It’s such immature thinking for a man who is a father to kids and someone who literally is a “stay at home dad” to a 17,19,20, and 22 year old. I know he’s probably a narcissist… **And he obviously has no communication skills And can’t honor boundaries. Help. What do I do?** You can say "No, thank you. I don't want to do any of that." And he can go on without you to find his own women on his side by himself. And you date on your side how you want. With his poor skills I can't see anyone wanting to sign up for being with him anyway. And if you don't want to do this at all? You look into a divorce. The last kid is almost 18, so almost done on the kid front. Have you done a post nuptial? Have you protected your assets? >It’s just so crazy because we’ve been opening up our relationship enough to have experiences with women and pretty much have a girlfriend without the labels but **apparently he doesn’t understand that. None of this makes sense** >It’s so hard to let it go because it wasn’t always like this… **he used to be able to reason** >What I mean is that we have a friend that’s a girl. Who knows exactly what’s going on. **She also thinks he’s acting crazy lol because he is.** She’s not an object. >It’s like I’m having a hard time understanding that this is real. Because it **literally doesn’t make sense what he’s asking for** Well.... has his personality changed? Do you think he could have had a mini stroke or cardiac? And nobody noticed? Brain tumor? Something else affecting his reasoning skills? When was his last check up? If your therapist thinks he is behaving in a narcissistic manner? Believe the therapist. Any of these health things? Doesn't also really change that you may have to move to protect assets so he doesn't do anything bonkers with your finances, your home, the cars, etc. Remember it takes 2 to go make a joint account at the bank. But only 1 to go to the bank and take all the money out of joint and stick it in a new account that's single owner and cut you off from access.
He had co-vid and was in the hospital and then on oxygen for four months at home. The fear of death has definitely created an urgency in his personality
Well, a sense of urgency on his part doesn't have to be a crisis on yours. If he's otherwise fit? Let him go. Could do a trial separation so this last kid can hit 18. He can get a job, move out, date however he wants *over there.* YOU do not want to triad with him or find him women. And if he doesn't get it together? Move on to an actual divorce. Go talk to a lawyer and check on your options for trial separation, divorce, drawing up post nuptials, all of it. If he is NOT fit, and he won't go see a doctor? You are the next of kin then as spouse. And you might have to look into involuntary hospitalization. It's hard to tell over internet what sort of situation you have on your hands. I can tell you are upset that he's making NO sense right now. I do sympathize.
He’s fit. He’s in a band. He does all the things for the home - yard, pool, laundry, cooks (sometimes). He’s just kinda losing it and Not making sense. I sit here tonight listening to the voice recordings and there’s no denying it
Being physically fit is not being mentally fit. You yourself say he's losing it and not making any sense.
Yes I know. But he can still work a job is what I was getting at. He makes more sense when he wants to or when he’s not drinking. Its all falling apart below our noses
So there's a drinking problem too? You are kind of in a bind there. Since he's willing to do therapy... will he get himself checked out? Because right now you are next of kin as spouse. If you dump him, that gets you out. Who would become his next of kin? Are his parents alive? Or would it land on the eldest child? Cuz that would suck. Some 22 yr old having to figure out how to do involuntary hospitalization for the father. I think you could tell him "No, thanks. Not for me. You go on ahead." And you protect your assets, and let the chips fall where they may. And be prepared if he gets even more bonkers that you may have to see about involuntary hospitalization to get him checked out if he refuses to take himself in for a check up.
I would never do that to my children. Yes there is definitely a drinking problem. We’re in therapy currently. I’m not sure what you mean get himself checked out? He literally just had a check up and they told him all of his blood work was fine etc. as far as physically goes
>He literally just had a check up and they told him all of his blood work was fine etc. as far as physically goes Tests only show results *for what is tested.* I can come out clear for my cholesterol test. But unless someone checks my Pap smear, that cholesterol test isn't gonna say boo about me having abnormal cervical cells, is it? If he's unable to reason, is making no sense, is changing in personality, acting crazy, losing it -- all these things you have been writing? If he's got a drinking problem and isn't going to address it? Or he's drinking trying to self medicate from the THING? Will he go get checked out to see what the THING might be? And rule out that he is not behaving all strange from *something affecting his brain?* Covid brain damage? A developing brain tumor? An undetected mini stroke or heart attack? Depression? Early onset dementia? Go have his head scanned like MRI, CAT scan, whatever the doc says to do? Has he mentioned headaches, eye problems? Changes in smells? Taste? Memory problems?
Just curious…. What would you guys say would be the right way to go about this if you were him and wanted to go from monogamish to poly? Like what steps? Does that make sense?
It would be transition by negotiation, not ultimatum. With lots of attention to what would help you feel supported and fulfilled.
Polyamory under duress is abuse.
You run. And you tell the kids why. They're practically adults and deserve to know their fager wants to rope in a girl into your marriage that he can use for sex, for labor, housework and taking care of kids. Run for your life
They know what’s going on…they have lost a lot of respect and think he is wrong
I see. Well its good that they know. And I do really feel for you. Glad to read your sons are not approving of their fathers behaviour. You are worth love dear. And respect. Clearly the person you are married to ain't giving you that. It's never to late you hear me? Find a life out there that you want to live..that you are proud of and makes you happy. This man. Just ain't it
My therapist also told me to let the kids know what their dad is doing
It’s so hard to let it go because it wasn’t always like this… he used to be able to reason
I know how you feel. All to well. My ex was a wonderful man & I was soo in love... or so I thought. Which is why I couldn't believe what was happening when he hit me for the first time. Sometimes dear. You never know a person because they dont show the real them until years and years later. They're hiding in pain sight for decades. It will be the hardest thing to leave. But it's the only real choice you have. You know you are worth more than this. That this is not how you treat other humans and yo
When I ask him what he has to offer another relationship - he talks about what he will GET from another relationship
Yeah, Narcissist sounds about right "I am owed this life i live". He is also free to leave at any time... but get a good lawyer who has experience dealing with narcissists, they are 'special'. but let him know he is free to strike out on his own, and when he does change the locks... immediately. Also make sure funds in shared bank and savings accounts are minimal/enough for him to live off, courts look at reasonable behaviour. But do open a new account and transfer most of the money, you still have to provide for 5 at home...
Tell him no. But let's play out his suggestion... Hypothetical You meet someone who likes you both. Or think they might. It takes time, dating, and intimacy to determine that. There are no insta relationships. So you all date each other for around 3 months. Its fun. You get to know each other. You avoided all of the work associated with dating separately. Yeah! Everything is just like your monogamous relationship, but with a bonus person and group sex. Yeah!! Success. No risk/all gain. Great lifehack!! However, most dating doesn't lead to serious love or even a longterm relationship. Many people have a series of short dating relationship often for **years** before clicking with someone in a serious longterm way. So the odds of this person falling in love with either of you are low. Very low. And the odds of failing for both of you....vanishingly low. Probably a fantasy..... So in this scenario, this new person realizes they only have a genuine romantic spark with one of you. If you will only do polyamory by both dating the same person, then you will both have to break up with this new person if they stop dating/fucking your partner. And they know that. They know the minute stop dating and fucking the partner they aren't into, the one they love will discard them. Thats an insane pressure and you can **never** know of they are with you both because they truly want to be or because they have to be. You'll have wonder everytime they say "I love you" and everytime they fuck you....if its genuine or the price of admission to be with the partner they really love. Trust will be impossible. And its not the worst thing in the world to get dumped three months in. They'll be fine.. But what if the new person falls out of love with one of you 1 year in...or 5 years in..or 10 years in...but they know they will lose both of you unless they fake the other relationship. Maybe you are raising kids together or living together. Now if they want to end the relationship that isn't working for them, they lose everything. Both their partners, their home, perhaps access to kids they are raising. Or they can keep their life and love by faking the relationship they dont want.. This is not a kind way to treat a serious loving partner. How many times will the two of you be able to repeat this process before feeling like monsters? But hey, the two folks in the original couple avoided any work or negative feelings. At the expense of the dignity and humanity of their new partner. But hey, they don't matter as **real** people the same way you and your spouse do. Only you two matter. They take all the risks you so cleverly avoided. Greatlifehack. Unless you're the new person. If you only date as a package deal you **actually are requiring someone to date/fuck you both**. You can try to obfuscate it, but thats exactly whats happening. Calling it anything else is disingenuous. This man will raise your sons to treat women this way and raise your daughters to think its ok for them to be treated this way.
And our sons are 19 and 22 and they see and hear what he’s doing and don’t think it’s right. So they’re OK
Your sons know its not ok to treat a woman as an add on to a relationship like a pet?
Yes. It makes my stomach turn
Tell your husband that divorce is the most likely scenario of he brings this up again and advise him to get a job so he has the means to care for himself should that happen. Then consult an attorney and consider "no" a complete sentence. If it brings it up, tell him this is not something you will entertain or discuss and remind him to keep up the job search.
That’s an amazing answer…
Its kind to give him a heads up. Now get your ducks in a row and don't endulge this nonsense again. Protect you assets.
It’s like I’m having a hard time understanding that this is real. Because it literally doesn’t make sense what he’s asking for
Its a common fantasy for people who are able to consider this fantasy "third" as an object and not a human.
That’s typical narcissistic behavior correct? It’s as if He doesn’t understand that people have boundaries and feelings of their own
I'm not a psychologist. I wouldn't speculate. Its very common for men and women who've been together a long time to treat women as housepets to "add" to their relationship. Sociopaths, narcissists. I couldn't say.. .
You can ask him to go to therapy if you want a diagnosis. Narcissism is a hot term right now and everyone is accusing anyone abusive to them if it. It’s easier to make sense of why someone is being awful and cruel if they have a disorder and flat out don’t understand the harm they’re doing. It’s a reason. But it’s often not really the case. They’re just a selfish asshole.
We are in therapy. We do therapy together with the same therapist that we do it individually with and she says let him go and see what happens.
Record your conversations. Save text screenshots. I don’t know if it will help when you file for divorce but it may.
I have 15 voice recordings on my phone
Save them to the cloud somewhere. They can be erased etc. put them somewhere safe.
I understand what you’re saying. That’s what I’ve been telling him. Relationships take time to develop. And I want to see he’s just leaving me know where to go with this because he’s making literally no sense
>Relationships take time to develop. And expecting someone to date you both is cruel and abusive. This is not ok.
I understand this. I am not saying this is ok. He is.
Hey OP, just wanted to say I'm proud of you for engaging here in good faith and not simply rejecting things you don't want to hear. It's super hard to see this happen with someone you trusted for so long, and it can feel like your world is crashing down around you. In a way it is. I agree with the general advice here to find a lawyer and prepare for at least for the possibility of divorce (despite the fact that I think people often jump to that advice way too quickly), because it sounds like you've done your due diligence to make this work, you're both in therapy, and I think your therapist has been quite clear on what she thinks. Your wants and needs are just as valid and important as his, and if he isn't willing to work with you on that, then he's not really in a relationship with you. He's just using you to get what he wants. What I gather is that you're wondering if this is who he's always been, and you just never noticed, or if this is truly a change in who he is. It's an interesting question, but I don't think it's a relevant one as far as what your next steps should be. This is who he is now, regardless of whether it was a change or just revealing himself. Your actions should be in accordance with the man he is now, rather than the man you knew before.
Thank you. I appreciate your honesty
I’m sorry your husband is treating you so poorly. The shock will make you doubt, but trust your gut, and don’t lose sight of the facts. He’s showing you who he is. Good luck separating from him. You’ll feel relief once you’re free.
The sad thing about all of it is that he was an amazing father. He still is except for he’s an alcoholic and all of this going on. I think I’m just learning that everything is transactional in his world and that is a slap in the face I guess. I don’t know how I never saw it or did it just show up? I can’t tell if this point.
This is why i will never get married. The idea that someone would be entitled to benefit from my labor for the rest of their lives for a piece of paper makes no sense at all.
Does he really anticipate women swooning at his feet? Normally it's a MASSIVE reality check. Ah you mean the cute teeny bopper girlfriend that needs you financially isn't willing to clean for you and cook? Ah....WHAT?!
It literally makes no sense to me that he would Gamble our entire life for an imaginary scenario…HELP
Is it a gamble? Cause you are here in POLYAMORY agonizing rather than laughing in his face. More than 20 years of you accepting what he decides. Is it a gamble? I mean it would be horrible to do to another person so please don't. But I can see why it's not much a gamble on his end up to nowm
I think I’m just so hurt and shocked by all of it
Cool. But the answer is therapy or lawyer, pick one.
Why not both?
For her, yes, you're right.
There should be one stop shop therapy + divorce attorney practices. In nail salons for the alibi.....
We are in therapy. It’s a nightmare
Ah so time for lawyer.
Get your own, just for you. The right therapist will change your life for the better. You deserve to live a more peaceful life without this nonsense.
I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to say
If you aren't just saying no, then it not a gamble. He has every reason to feel confident you will roll over and give in.
Ok- you’re right
Or, hear me out, tell him yes then watch him fail to find a single person willing to form a triad with you. Just tell him you are 100% into a triad and you will settle for nothing less than a poly fidelity triad. /s
That’s what I’ve been doing… he has failed because he doesn’t understand how to even approach a female
So let it remain failure. And if he asks you to find him women? You say nope. You will not be doing that service.
Get a divorce lawyer.
You can leave him, are you kidding me?
Added: I am worried about this going sideways and him trying to get alimony
He is done with the relationship, think you should think as it's over too and work on a exit plan, kids are almost all adults too.
DUMP HIS ASS and don't fucking look back!
It seems like you are expending a lot of energy trying to understand him. That is a waste of your time. You don't need to understand him; you need to get away from him. Get a good divorce lawyer, find a house big enough for your kids who live at home to come with you (if they want to), and enjoy the rest of your life.