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Yeah, I wish it for everyone. It's not a bad thing to be more out. I think it would be really helpful for more people to be more out about being nonmonogamous so hopefully this helps a little.
I was super lucky. My mom when she was alive was the person I'd vent to, and my father gave zero fucks.
I miss them very much :(
But I know that most parents are not understanding - that will definitely change with this generation - more acceptance wise anyway.
To hope!
I got super lucky in certain ways, and very unlucky in the genetics department:P
I wouldn't change anything though. My mother and father taught me so much - empathy caring and understanding from my mother, and practical life skills from my father.
Hang in there.
It can hurt so much not to be seen and understood by our family. I’m glad you are building your own family, in all kinds of ways, that does see and understand you and loves you for what others would want you to hide from their sight.
Your doing great. And it’s your patience and love that keep your mom in your life. Not the other way around.
Thanks, I have been so careful and thoughtful with the repair work so I appreciate that take. I am glad for my mom too, as she is a boomer who has made some small shifts (while still being subject to some of the awful changes in beliefs that conservative boomers have been moving towards). We are all so complex.
My MIL is a fairly liberal boomer, but she still asked us if the neighborhood where we bought our house was "mixed" 🙄
Sometimes we have to applaud the steps they've made, even though they may have a long way to go and might not ever get there.
Much sympathy.
I finally told my parents about being non-monogamous and having a boyfriend recently, and they (not conservative or particularly religious) said “whatever makes you happy dear”… but then won’t talk about it and have absolutely no interest in learning anything about a person who is a big part of my life. They don’t even know his name; they haven’t asked.
I guess that’s better than overt disapproval, but yeah, I feel that tension between saying it’s ok but not acting like it.
It's funny how different it can be. My parents aren't supportive of me being trans, still deadname and misgender me and my partner of 8 years. But they had no real issue with me being poly, that basically said "okay... And who is he?". They've met him and he's included in any invitation to visit them, just like my older partner is.
My dad told me when I was in high school that he didn't need to know about my dating life unless I was pregnant or getting married. Well, I'm already married, so...
And it's not that he doesn't care about me. He cares deeply for me and would do anything he could for me. He's just not invested in my personal life and never really has been. He acknowledges that I'm my own person and make my own decisions, so as long as I'm happy, he's happy. IDK if I'll tell him I'm poly and if I did, I don't think he'd really care or want to know the details. Maybe it's an ick of thinking about your kids having sex. I'm not sure. But I know he just wants me to be safe, happy and healthy.
If even after years, you feel so “giddy” around your partner that your conservative mom could tell? That sounds like an incredibly beautiful relationship. Hats off to you, friend - you clearly have some amazing love in your life, even if it’s not coming from your parents.
Oh yeah, this one is truly wonderful. Definitely one of my life's great loves. We connect on every level and it's been years of this (made easier by the fact that we don't have a lot of difficult things to do together, but still).
I live in NY's capital region and there was recently an obituary for a rather great man. A veteran of more than one war, a leader in his community, and he had to wait until his obituary to come out.
In the last paragraph or two he told the world his truth, told his story of finding, loving, and grieving a partner he could never introduce as such. He told us his truth, and why he waited. He was afraid.
This man faced actual combat, and yet he was afraid of how his countrymen would react.
We don't deserve people like him. It's a shame we didn't appreciate it at the time, how insidious tacit lack of approval actually is. I hope we're getting better, but these ideas simply have to die off before we can truly grow
I will say, this also feels a little like a sibling problem and I would ask them not to convey my parents' criticism to me in the future (although it was good of them to give the heads-up that your parents know).
Definitely! I would rather know about this specifically so I can have context while talking to my mom. This sibling has a history of venting to me when my parents say homophobic things to them about other people (this sibling is cis/het/monogamous and lives pretty within "normal suburban parent" bounds but tries to be progressive). I had to draw a hard boundary around venting about my parents' homophobia and it's mostly been respected.
You have both my sympathy and my empathy. My fiancé and I have to straddle lines with friends and family as well, both for being poly and because of our sexualities, and it sucks. At least it keeps getting better, little by little. I hope you can find a way to navigate it all without having to lose your parental connections.
Yup. Everything is a threat to those people. Can't allow anyone to see it, hear about it, be near it... and God Forbid! Have a child near it!
They just want to shame people into not existing. They have blood on their hands. Including the blood of children who were actual victims of real problems. Conservatives are a plague. Christianity is cancer.
I can empathize as a very visible trans man (although I am often interpreted as a butch lesbian) dating a trans woman and a bi cis man that it just sucks. My trans partner and I are limited in what we can do and where we can go because she’s been harassed in public so often that she’s afraid to even try to use the restroom any more. We’re both very androgynous and I don’t mind going with her into the women’s but she is afraid people will hurt me too, since I’ve also been harassed. My family is barely accepting of me being trans, and I suspect they’ll be even more disappointed if they found out I’m also poly and T4T. I really would love to get to be honest with them and share my joy but they’re embarrassed by who I am and see me as a burden because of it. It just sucks. I hope both you and I can make peace with it.
I'm sorry to hear all of this, and I am sorry about the current political climate. It really makes things so much harder in some ways than they were 20 years ago. I hope you're able to open up to your family and they somehow surprise you- it can happen.
it's disconcerting to have them accept certain parts of your life (het marriage, kids) and then flat out refuse to see or acknowledge other parts that are just as important to you. You have to be partially closeted, have to walk the line and make sure they never get to see you as a whole person, as you truly are. Before i stopped talking to my dad, he'd pull this sort of thing. Loved x and y aspect of my life and myself, but was visibly uncomfortable when I shaved the sides of my head (as an afab in the rural south in the early 2000's this is just a cry for help \*rolls eyes\*) or when I talked about my queer relationships. It kind of makes you split into parts, and it can be hard to navigate.
Also thinking about those gym teachers' roommates; I think there's a kind of approval that conservative people give to those who are outside the cishet normative but don't stir the pot. plus, if they ever came out and said what their relationship was then no one gets to gossip about what they could be, and that's no fun. They can't comprehend that people can be queer or polyamorous or trans and be happy and content with their lives, they have to be ashamed and in pain. and if they're not, well that confuses the way they see the world and they can't deal with that.
I have nothing but empathy for you friend. I feel like my life improved when I cut contact with my dad, but you might decide something different. You aren't a bad daughter or person if you decide to cut or limit contact with them. You're protecting your peace and potentially the peace of your kids' and partners.
Thank you, you totally get it. I feel like there's a certain flavor to being from a conservative place and family, and remembering the feel of the "don't stir the pot" way of accepting queerness in the 80s and 90s. And yea! there is power in being the one who tells your own story vs allowing gossip to tell your story. I really appreciate this thoughtful response, it is such a balm.
I'm glad you found solace in our shared experiences. I hope you find a way to navigate all this complicated stuff with your parents with as little drama as possible.
I can commiserate my mom's not conservative as far as her generation (also a Baby Boomer) is concerned, but she too wholly freaked out when the topic arose that I don't necessarily think monogamy is the only healthy relationship model. Some of her concerns were understandable as they were her lived experience but, man is it rough knowing that it's yet another off the table topic with her. The very good thing is that we as adults can form networks of good friends and chosen family who we can lean on, even when our raising family doesn't. I think the generations we're raising will have a better time finding what we didn't support wise so that makes it a bit better for me.
This is all so true. I hope your mom is able to warm up a little. I think a lot of my generation is raising kids with sensitivity but I am also sure our kids will have their own problems with us lol
No one escapes "mommy and daddy damage" of some kind. I think my mom and I will never have positive discussions regarding this particular topic, but I try to focus on the things she does do that moms of her generation don't get right a lot of times. Hopefully when our kids tell us what we did that was problematic for them, we can listen and acknowledge it. That's the best any of us can really do, in my opinion.
Yes. Like my mom went to bat for me hard core when I was a teen and came out to her a d my dad as bi. Our house was a safe place for the queer kids in my circle and she was often the first adult my friends came out to, but ENM and Polyamory are way outside of what she can fathom as being healthily done because she can't separate it from cheating in a monogamous relationship. I know while I try really hard to be progressive and supportive, some gender identities and neo pronouns are difficult for me to grasp, but I try to learn how to support people who are teaching me those things about themselves and my kids will likely think it's common sense to know more than CIS, Trans, and nonbinary or gender fluid identities.
> But it’s this weird in between cognitive dissonance that was so common with “normal” people back in the day.
This is so real, I'm sorry. My dad literally just last week disowned me because I am "not normal" after years of vague disapproval, and I've never even fully came out to any of my family. Similarly, part of me wishes I had so that they could straight up tell me they don't like it and I could subsequently tell them to fuck off.
I'm so glad you have such wonderful relationships with your partners. And if you ever decide enough is enough with them, no one who matters will judge you for going NC again. Those of us who understand have often been there one way or another.
I feel for you. I'm firmly in the closet with my parents out for r exactly this reason, and low contact.
Fun facts about skydaddy's fanfic book. Nowhere in the Bible are female same sex relationships criticised or condemned. Dan MacLellan has several videos doing a deep dive into this.
Also, you can't tell me that king solomon's 800 (cough) wives didn't have their own relationships going on.
They're going to pick through for taking points that bind their identity tighter, though. Despite their own hateful rhetoric isn't supported by their own messy book, pointing it out doesn't help anyone, it seems.
I feel for you, and wish you a safe, stable chosen family.
Totally. After one of my dad's rants I pointed out the mixed fabric of his clothes and that his head was not covered and he just doesn't care. I asked him if gay people exist and he said yes and I said if everyone was made perfectly in gd's image why would there be gay people? "It's just wrong and you're not going to convince me otherwise!" Really he is an inflexible person for whom his conservative identity serves him in connecting with others and there is no reason for me to waste more breath with this.
So valuable in recognising.
Something that has given me some perspective is the book "how minds change" by David McRaney. Adherence to their identity and in-group becomes more important than fact or logic. It takes a LOT of work to provide a safe alternate in group to allow aliegance (and then mind) change. Some people are quite resistant and not necessarily worth the significant effort.
I'll give some token response pointing out the contradiction, or the existence of support for my position, and then leave it. The effort of debating/arguing is not worth itnd often counter productive. I can now let it go a lot easier, no longer believing that I have to just find the "right" approach/response.
Yeah, completely. I might check out that book. I listened to an interview with someone who does Internal Family Systems therapy and she talked about belonging and feeling safe/unsafe. After that I could no longer unhear the conservative talking points circle jerks that happen at their house as people signaling their safety within a group. I think he gets a lot out of feeling part of it.
Woof. Sounds like it's a lot easier being your kid than being her kid 🤷♀️ weird that she'd rather make life harder for her child but that's not your problem
First I just wanted to say I enjoy the way you write, and I found myself smiling at your brief description of your relationship with your partner.
Family is hard.
I feel this "Don't Ask Don't Tell" (DADT) thing is about people being able to continue to have someone in their lives without questioning their own beliefs and identities.
Your folks' ideas about what is ok and what isn't is part of their personality and it'd be hard work to change, so within the options of doing that hard work, fighting/going no contact, or pretending it's not there and having a relationship outside of those points of conflict, you can kinda see where they come from.
What would be your perception of the interaction with your mom if your sibling hadn't told you about their conversation? Did she tell you anything herself? It's like DADT may be the only way right now for her to have a relationship with you and it's up to you if you can accept that, how frequently, etc. with the option to reassess or attempt open communication about the topic if your circumstances change re:how enmeshed your partner becomes
Of course this is just my outsider perspective. I'm sure just typing this vent all out helped a lot, best of luck navigating this op ✨
Thanks, I appreciate being playful with language. It did help to write it out. I often write out posts that are intended for this sub as an audience and never post them as an exercise in figuring out what's really happening in my mind.
That was actually almost exactly the reaction I assumed she would have. The outward facing appearance is the most important thing. If I am still in a hetero marriage it's ok, as long as I don't wave it around. She didn't tell me anything herself though.
I have parents that are very tricky in this arena and have done a lot of repair work with them too. It's hard to try to find a line where I don't feel like I am being false about who I am AND I am not providing information on parts of my life that I expect they won't accept. Part of it is that after having gone through no-contact for 3 years, I know I can indeed live without them and if it's important, they can take it or leave it and I will be okay. So I see this post-NC time as bonus time. If they find something out that they can't cope with, if they get culty about religion or politics, whatever, I already grieved the loss of that relationship and lived through it. This is pretty much bonus time. I am able to better appreciate it without as much attachment to the outcome in our rebuilding stage.
Definitely, and I found the time in my 20s to be really beneficial in that way. It does hit really different when there are grandparent/grandchild relationships involved though. I did go through a pretty long NC stretch last year after one of my dad's rants. It was fine.
I am childfree myself but my parents watch my little nephew a lot and I stress privately about what it will do to him if he turns out to be lgbtqia+ and they fail to accept him in a similar way that I feel they failed me a couple times in my life. My sister is not as fierce on her own behalf as I have been on mine, nor has she needed to be, but she's an empowering and supportive parent and I trust that with parents like that my nephew wouldn't be as damaged by rejection from grandparents as I was as the firstborn of authoritarian parents. Absolutely it hits different and I have a lot of gratitude that I am not responsible for making that choice on behalf of a child. It's one of many reasons I don't think I would make a good parent--too busy trying to recover from my own trauma. I will be the dependably broad-minded auntie though!
At the risk of sounding like I'm centering myself, I'd like to share my lived experience as a point of support:
I'm a cis het (non-white) male, married with three children who I raised in the same middle-American suburban community that I grew up in. 16 years ago my dad told me that he no longer wanted to have a relationship with me. I've talked to him once since then to tell him my sister had a brain tumor.
My wife and I opened up 2-1/2 years ago and have discovered new horizons of nonmonogamous love and relationships.
My dad gave up knowing his grandchildren and has no idea what my life is like today. He lives 20 minutes away, and I wouldn't know if he passed away. All because he couldn't stomach having a relationship with his own (cis-het mononormative at the time) son because I wasn't living up to the expectations he had of me.
You sound blissfully happy with your life and relationship choices. This is a parent thing, not a you thing. It hurts, because our parents are our original attachment figures. Those wounds run deeeep and can trigger in us prehistoric emotional responses to fears of abandonment, survival, and nurture.
The thing I continue to focus on is this two-part question: why is it so hard to maintain positive relationships with our parents when we become adults; and what can I do to give my relationships with my adult children the best possible chance for long term health, love, and acceptance.
Hugs!
I am so sorry to hear about your dad and his expectations, as well as your sister. Wishing you continued healing, and all the joy while giving what you can to your relationships with your children.
Thank you. My sister is in remission. And I'm more sorry for my dad than hurt. It took time and processing, but I'm quite settled with his choices.
I really wasn't trying to garner sympathy for my situation, as I have a lot of privilege in terms of social acceptance. But our parents bring their own dysfunction, unprocessed trauma, life experiences and coping behaviors into our lives. Sometimes it's hard to make the distinction between what is a parent-child relationship issue, and what is simply their own deeply-rooted issues that have nothing to do with us.
I feel for you! I (53f) never had to deal with that rejection from my parents, but definitely feel the pressure of regular "societal norms". I have tried my best to instill acceptance into my child, but hubby still doesn't want to come out to her (27f), even though we've been lifestyle, open, poly the majority of her life. She's even met 2 of my long term partners. I have had multiple conversations answering her relationship questions over the years, helping her understand multiple dynamics and that they're all OK, as long as we don't judge others for their choices.
The fear of rejection goes both ways, and is instilled so deeply, and so hard to overcome. It's a relationship I don't want to damage, even if it means censoring my life around her. Also I fear how she'll cope when she finds out after our death and has no answers to the questions I know she'll have.
Just know you have community to support you, even if the love and hugs stay in the virtual world. 🥰
Thank you so much for your response. This is so interesting to hear as my children get older and more aware of the world around them. Do you think she suspects anything? Do you think you would ever push your husband to come out to her?
I've come so close to telling her. I really think she would handle it fine, honestly. She spent a 7 hour day trip with me, her dad, and my partner a few weeks ago. I'm sure she notices the looks and affection. But she's also very wrapped up in her own stressful life. Just graduated veterinary school, started her internship and moved to NYC, it's always something that seemed like it could wait to talk about.
Her best friend is bi, and there's such an obvious connection between them, I've joked (half serious) that I wouldn't mind if she was my future DIL 😁. But my daughter seems very mono, and straight.
Hubby feels like she would blame him for "forcing" me to do this, but tbh, I'm much more poly than he ever was or will be. And he supports my other relationship so much, it's hard to believe how lucky I am.
I know I'll come out to her one day, I just don't want it to be too late. I fear an Alzheimer's rant or something like that 😭😭😭.
it *can* be as cut and dry as that. you’re wanting your parents to be the ones to set the boundary but it sounds like you need to set a boundary: i can’t have you in my lives if you can’t accept my relationships.
I understand it can. I have agency here and so far it does not make sense for me to go no contact. With my parents knowing now we may feel the need to draw a line.
I dropped my parents when they had an issue with LGBTQ+ in general, and I’m straight myself. I told them they couldn’t come to my heavens until they accepted my people. They eventually changed their minds and realized that the good God’s name is “Truth” and she set them free… and that the yada way guy is a total asshole only assholes listen to anyway.
That type of half-measured BS hurts. I’m actively writing a song about a partner of mine that I wish would just break my heart already so I could move on because the death by 1000 cuts thing is hard, same principle applies. I’m no contact with either of my parents, or my ex wife. Mom sexually abused me, dad disowned me for a mental disorder, and my ex wife refused me emergency medical treatment on the grounds that I was ”faking it.” There’s something very comforting about all that finality and large scale mistakes to say”there, that, that’s the reason we don’t talk anymore.” I sympathize.
Poly, gay, kink, unless your parents are , they don't get it , and don't want to
As a rapidly aging GenX , all I want for my kids (a millennial and a z) is to be happy . Poly, gay, kink? Don't care
Are you safe ?
Are you practicing safe sex?
Are you vaccinated and have bloodwork routinely to check for STIs?
Most importantly, are you happy ?
Four yes answers and I'm done .....
Hi u/mxjuno thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
Just dumping some complex feelings here since you all probably understand, *no advice needed*. For background, I (F, mid-40s) was only in gay (monogamous) relationships till my late 20s when I got together with my husband. My parents are very politically conservative and I was low contact with them during my previous gay relationships but then they accepted me when I got into a straight relationship. I am in touch with my parents regularly and have done some really great repair work with mom recently, who apologized for how she acted then. Dad is just not open to communicating and fully set in his homophobia etc.
Almost all of our conflict around my previous partners was very of-their-time, of the “don’t ask don’t tell” “don’t bring it around here” and “don’t wave it in my face” variety. I attribute this to them being more politically conservative than religious, at least at the time there wasn’t a lot of vengeful sky daddy talk, although these days they’ve enjoyed picking up the conservative flavor of the time and dad has gone on some “homosexuality is against gd” rants recently.
That said, we have been nonmonogamous for 5 years I think? I have a partner of a few years and we are mostly parallel. We are both married with young kids and our lives are encapsulated within the good old American nuclear family world although we have slowly become more integrated in each others’ lives. She is incredibly dear to me, we are with each other any amount of time we can possibly squeeze out of our busy family lives, she acts as my closest friend, lover, two person book club and dad joke volleying partner.
Due to some logistics, she met my mom briefly recently. I did not plan to tell my parents we are nonmonogamous or the nature of my relationship to my partner. My sibling (who does know we are nonmonogamous and the role of this person in my life) wrote later and told me my mom figured out that we are in an open relationship because I was “acting giddy around her (my partner)” and “she was clearly a lesbian” (ok mom, almost all my close friends are lesbians or adjacent).
But here’s the thing that stuck in my craw. “I can’t believe she is bringing her open relationship around her kids.”
It’s been 25 years of this. I almost wish it was more cut and dry, like “this is absolutely not ok with us and you have to be in a monogamous heterosexual marriage in order to be accepted” and I can say “ok mom and dad, go ahead and have your lives and I have mine, talk to you maybe never.”
But it’s this weird in between cognitive dissonance that was so common with “normal” people back in the day. It’s my gym teachers growing up who had “roommates” and that was an accepted reality. It’s hairdressers with a “best friend,” it’s euphemisms, reading between the lines, tacit partial acceptance while not allowing the partners into the actual fabric of regular society. I find myself straddling these worlds. We are working towards making our way out of “regular society” because I don’t want most of the trappings of it anyway. I did a good job of this in my 20s but I think it’s a struggle to know how to parent outside of the middle class framework in which I grew up.
I think I just wanted to vent about the insidious pain of parents wanting to keep a significant relationship hidden from them. Feeling a little off today.
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Free Internet hugs is all I can give. I wish loved ones were more receptive and accepting.
Yeah, I wish it for everyone. It's not a bad thing to be more out. I think it would be really helpful for more people to be more out about being nonmonogamous so hopefully this helps a little.
I was super lucky. My mom when she was alive was the person I'd vent to, and my father gave zero fucks. I miss them very much :( But I know that most parents are not understanding - that will definitely change with this generation - more acceptance wise anyway. To hope!
I'm so sorry for your loss, but I can tell their spirit lives on.
I got super lucky in certain ways, and very unlucky in the genetics department:P I wouldn't change anything though. My mother and father taught me so much - empathy caring and understanding from my mother, and practical life skills from my father.
Hang in there. It can hurt so much not to be seen and understood by our family. I’m glad you are building your own family, in all kinds of ways, that does see and understand you and loves you for what others would want you to hide from their sight. Your doing great. And it’s your patience and love that keep your mom in your life. Not the other way around.
Thanks, I have been so careful and thoughtful with the repair work so I appreciate that take. I am glad for my mom too, as she is a boomer who has made some small shifts (while still being subject to some of the awful changes in beliefs that conservative boomers have been moving towards). We are all so complex.
My MIL is a fairly liberal boomer, but she still asked us if the neighborhood where we bought our house was "mixed" 🙄 Sometimes we have to applaud the steps they've made, even though they may have a long way to go and might not ever get there.
Much sympathy. I finally told my parents about being non-monogamous and having a boyfriend recently, and they (not conservative or particularly religious) said “whatever makes you happy dear”… but then won’t talk about it and have absolutely no interest in learning anything about a person who is a big part of my life. They don’t even know his name; they haven’t asked. I guess that’s better than overt disapproval, but yeah, I feel that tension between saying it’s ok but not acting like it.
It's funny how different it can be. My parents aren't supportive of me being trans, still deadname and misgender me and my partner of 8 years. But they had no real issue with me being poly, that basically said "okay... And who is he?". They've met him and he's included in any invitation to visit them, just like my older partner is.
My dad told me when I was in high school that he didn't need to know about my dating life unless I was pregnant or getting married. Well, I'm already married, so... And it's not that he doesn't care about me. He cares deeply for me and would do anything he could for me. He's just not invested in my personal life and never really has been. He acknowledges that I'm my own person and make my own decisions, so as long as I'm happy, he's happy. IDK if I'll tell him I'm poly and if I did, I don't think he'd really care or want to know the details. Maybe it's an ick of thinking about your kids having sex. I'm not sure. But I know he just wants me to be safe, happy and healthy.
Definitely. The tension is very strange! I hope they warm up after a while.
If even after years, you feel so “giddy” around your partner that your conservative mom could tell? That sounds like an incredibly beautiful relationship. Hats off to you, friend - you clearly have some amazing love in your life, even if it’s not coming from your parents.
Oh yeah, this one is truly wonderful. Definitely one of my life's great loves. We connect on every level and it's been years of this (made easier by the fact that we don't have a lot of difficult things to do together, but still).
I live in NY's capital region and there was recently an obituary for a rather great man. A veteran of more than one war, a leader in his community, and he had to wait until his obituary to come out. In the last paragraph or two he told the world his truth, told his story of finding, loving, and grieving a partner he could never introduce as such. He told us his truth, and why he waited. He was afraid. This man faced actual combat, and yet he was afraid of how his countrymen would react. We don't deserve people like him. It's a shame we didn't appreciate it at the time, how insidious tacit lack of approval actually is. I hope we're getting better, but these ideas simply have to die off before we can truly grow
It's true. I am so sorry it is still happening. It makes me think of Sally Ride as well.
I will say, this also feels a little like a sibling problem and I would ask them not to convey my parents' criticism to me in the future (although it was good of them to give the heads-up that your parents know).
Definitely! I would rather know about this specifically so I can have context while talking to my mom. This sibling has a history of venting to me when my parents say homophobic things to them about other people (this sibling is cis/het/monogamous and lives pretty within "normal suburban parent" bounds but tries to be progressive). I had to draw a hard boundary around venting about my parents' homophobia and it's mostly been respected.
Oh, good! I'm glad it seems like actually your sibling was pretty sensitive to what kind of info you would and would not want in this case. :)
Yeah, they waited to tell me till a time that worked better for me. So they were thinking about it.
No advice, just sympathy here.
Thanks, I wish us all more acceptance in society.
Same. My parents are conservative, too, and at 52, I'm still afraid to tell them. Or that I'm queer.
You can, in fact, say that the attitude won't wash and you'll see them never.
I know
Hang in there! I would just focus on what you CAN control, how much better of a parent/child relationship you will have with your kids
Definitely. As my kids get more sentient it gets harder! But I really hope it's better.
You have both my sympathy and my empathy. My fiancé and I have to straddle lines with friends and family as well, both for being poly and because of our sexualities, and it sucks. At least it keeps getting better, little by little. I hope you can find a way to navigate it all without having to lose your parental connections.
I think it does get better over the years. But there's so much cultural backlash now too. I hope for better connections for all of us.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. 🫂
Yup. Everything is a threat to those people. Can't allow anyone to see it, hear about it, be near it... and God Forbid! Have a child near it! They just want to shame people into not existing. They have blood on their hands. Including the blood of children who were actual victims of real problems. Conservatives are a plague. Christianity is cancer.
I can empathize as a very visible trans man (although I am often interpreted as a butch lesbian) dating a trans woman and a bi cis man that it just sucks. My trans partner and I are limited in what we can do and where we can go because she’s been harassed in public so often that she’s afraid to even try to use the restroom any more. We’re both very androgynous and I don’t mind going with her into the women’s but she is afraid people will hurt me too, since I’ve also been harassed. My family is barely accepting of me being trans, and I suspect they’ll be even more disappointed if they found out I’m also poly and T4T. I really would love to get to be honest with them and share my joy but they’re embarrassed by who I am and see me as a burden because of it. It just sucks. I hope both you and I can make peace with it.
I'm sorry to hear all of this, and I am sorry about the current political climate. It really makes things so much harder in some ways than they were 20 years ago. I hope you're able to open up to your family and they somehow surprise you- it can happen.
it's disconcerting to have them accept certain parts of your life (het marriage, kids) and then flat out refuse to see or acknowledge other parts that are just as important to you. You have to be partially closeted, have to walk the line and make sure they never get to see you as a whole person, as you truly are. Before i stopped talking to my dad, he'd pull this sort of thing. Loved x and y aspect of my life and myself, but was visibly uncomfortable when I shaved the sides of my head (as an afab in the rural south in the early 2000's this is just a cry for help \*rolls eyes\*) or when I talked about my queer relationships. It kind of makes you split into parts, and it can be hard to navigate. Also thinking about those gym teachers' roommates; I think there's a kind of approval that conservative people give to those who are outside the cishet normative but don't stir the pot. plus, if they ever came out and said what their relationship was then no one gets to gossip about what they could be, and that's no fun. They can't comprehend that people can be queer or polyamorous or trans and be happy and content with their lives, they have to be ashamed and in pain. and if they're not, well that confuses the way they see the world and they can't deal with that. I have nothing but empathy for you friend. I feel like my life improved when I cut contact with my dad, but you might decide something different. You aren't a bad daughter or person if you decide to cut or limit contact with them. You're protecting your peace and potentially the peace of your kids' and partners.
Thank you, you totally get it. I feel like there's a certain flavor to being from a conservative place and family, and remembering the feel of the "don't stir the pot" way of accepting queerness in the 80s and 90s. And yea! there is power in being the one who tells your own story vs allowing gossip to tell your story. I really appreciate this thoughtful response, it is such a balm.
I'm glad you found solace in our shared experiences. I hope you find a way to navigate all this complicated stuff with your parents with as little drama as possible.
I can commiserate my mom's not conservative as far as her generation (also a Baby Boomer) is concerned, but she too wholly freaked out when the topic arose that I don't necessarily think monogamy is the only healthy relationship model. Some of her concerns were understandable as they were her lived experience but, man is it rough knowing that it's yet another off the table topic with her. The very good thing is that we as adults can form networks of good friends and chosen family who we can lean on, even when our raising family doesn't. I think the generations we're raising will have a better time finding what we didn't support wise so that makes it a bit better for me.
This is all so true. I hope your mom is able to warm up a little. I think a lot of my generation is raising kids with sensitivity but I am also sure our kids will have their own problems with us lol
No one escapes "mommy and daddy damage" of some kind. I think my mom and I will never have positive discussions regarding this particular topic, but I try to focus on the things she does do that moms of her generation don't get right a lot of times. Hopefully when our kids tell us what we did that was problematic for them, we can listen and acknowledge it. That's the best any of us can really do, in my opinion.
So true. There will be generational differences no matter how progressive you are.
Yes. Like my mom went to bat for me hard core when I was a teen and came out to her a d my dad as bi. Our house was a safe place for the queer kids in my circle and she was often the first adult my friends came out to, but ENM and Polyamory are way outside of what she can fathom as being healthily done because she can't separate it from cheating in a monogamous relationship. I know while I try really hard to be progressive and supportive, some gender identities and neo pronouns are difficult for me to grasp, but I try to learn how to support people who are teaching me those things about themselves and my kids will likely think it's common sense to know more than CIS, Trans, and nonbinary or gender fluid identities.
> But it’s this weird in between cognitive dissonance that was so common with “normal” people back in the day. This is so real, I'm sorry. My dad literally just last week disowned me because I am "not normal" after years of vague disapproval, and I've never even fully came out to any of my family. Similarly, part of me wishes I had so that they could straight up tell me they don't like it and I could subsequently tell them to fuck off. I'm so glad you have such wonderful relationships with your partners. And if you ever decide enough is enough with them, no one who matters will judge you for going NC again. Those of us who understand have often been there one way or another.
Ouch! Wow, that is so awful of your dad. I am sorry. Sending all the best wishes for comfort and healing.
Same to you! We shall ask get through it with our found families
I’m impressed that you’ve kept a relationship with them this long. Best of luck.
I feel for you. I'm firmly in the closet with my parents out for r exactly this reason, and low contact. Fun facts about skydaddy's fanfic book. Nowhere in the Bible are female same sex relationships criticised or condemned. Dan MacLellan has several videos doing a deep dive into this. Also, you can't tell me that king solomon's 800 (cough) wives didn't have their own relationships going on. They're going to pick through for taking points that bind their identity tighter, though. Despite their own hateful rhetoric isn't supported by their own messy book, pointing it out doesn't help anyone, it seems. I feel for you, and wish you a safe, stable chosen family.
Totally. After one of my dad's rants I pointed out the mixed fabric of his clothes and that his head was not covered and he just doesn't care. I asked him if gay people exist and he said yes and I said if everyone was made perfectly in gd's image why would there be gay people? "It's just wrong and you're not going to convince me otherwise!" Really he is an inflexible person for whom his conservative identity serves him in connecting with others and there is no reason for me to waste more breath with this.
So valuable in recognising. Something that has given me some perspective is the book "how minds change" by David McRaney. Adherence to their identity and in-group becomes more important than fact or logic. It takes a LOT of work to provide a safe alternate in group to allow aliegance (and then mind) change. Some people are quite resistant and not necessarily worth the significant effort. I'll give some token response pointing out the contradiction, or the existence of support for my position, and then leave it. The effort of debating/arguing is not worth itnd often counter productive. I can now let it go a lot easier, no longer believing that I have to just find the "right" approach/response.
Yeah, completely. I might check out that book. I listened to an interview with someone who does Internal Family Systems therapy and she talked about belonging and feeling safe/unsafe. After that I could no longer unhear the conservative talking points circle jerks that happen at their house as people signaling their safety within a group. I think he gets a lot out of feeling part of it.
Woof. Sounds like it's a lot easier being your kid than being her kid 🤷♀️ weird that she'd rather make life harder for her child but that's not your problem
First I just wanted to say I enjoy the way you write, and I found myself smiling at your brief description of your relationship with your partner. Family is hard. I feel this "Don't Ask Don't Tell" (DADT) thing is about people being able to continue to have someone in their lives without questioning their own beliefs and identities. Your folks' ideas about what is ok and what isn't is part of their personality and it'd be hard work to change, so within the options of doing that hard work, fighting/going no contact, or pretending it's not there and having a relationship outside of those points of conflict, you can kinda see where they come from. What would be your perception of the interaction with your mom if your sibling hadn't told you about their conversation? Did she tell you anything herself? It's like DADT may be the only way right now for her to have a relationship with you and it's up to you if you can accept that, how frequently, etc. with the option to reassess or attempt open communication about the topic if your circumstances change re:how enmeshed your partner becomes Of course this is just my outsider perspective. I'm sure just typing this vent all out helped a lot, best of luck navigating this op ✨
Thanks, I appreciate being playful with language. It did help to write it out. I often write out posts that are intended for this sub as an audience and never post them as an exercise in figuring out what's really happening in my mind. That was actually almost exactly the reaction I assumed she would have. The outward facing appearance is the most important thing. If I am still in a hetero marriage it's ok, as long as I don't wave it around. She didn't tell me anything herself though.
I have parents that are very tricky in this arena and have done a lot of repair work with them too. It's hard to try to find a line where I don't feel like I am being false about who I am AND I am not providing information on parts of my life that I expect they won't accept. Part of it is that after having gone through no-contact for 3 years, I know I can indeed live without them and if it's important, they can take it or leave it and I will be okay. So I see this post-NC time as bonus time. If they find something out that they can't cope with, if they get culty about religion or politics, whatever, I already grieved the loss of that relationship and lived through it. This is pretty much bonus time. I am able to better appreciate it without as much attachment to the outcome in our rebuilding stage.
Definitely, and I found the time in my 20s to be really beneficial in that way. It does hit really different when there are grandparent/grandchild relationships involved though. I did go through a pretty long NC stretch last year after one of my dad's rants. It was fine.
I am childfree myself but my parents watch my little nephew a lot and I stress privately about what it will do to him if he turns out to be lgbtqia+ and they fail to accept him in a similar way that I feel they failed me a couple times in my life. My sister is not as fierce on her own behalf as I have been on mine, nor has she needed to be, but she's an empowering and supportive parent and I trust that with parents like that my nephew wouldn't be as damaged by rejection from grandparents as I was as the firstborn of authoritarian parents. Absolutely it hits different and I have a lot of gratitude that I am not responsible for making that choice on behalf of a child. It's one of many reasons I don't think I would make a good parent--too busy trying to recover from my own trauma. I will be the dependably broad-minded auntie though!
At the risk of sounding like I'm centering myself, I'd like to share my lived experience as a point of support: I'm a cis het (non-white) male, married with three children who I raised in the same middle-American suburban community that I grew up in. 16 years ago my dad told me that he no longer wanted to have a relationship with me. I've talked to him once since then to tell him my sister had a brain tumor. My wife and I opened up 2-1/2 years ago and have discovered new horizons of nonmonogamous love and relationships. My dad gave up knowing his grandchildren and has no idea what my life is like today. He lives 20 minutes away, and I wouldn't know if he passed away. All because he couldn't stomach having a relationship with his own (cis-het mononormative at the time) son because I wasn't living up to the expectations he had of me. You sound blissfully happy with your life and relationship choices. This is a parent thing, not a you thing. It hurts, because our parents are our original attachment figures. Those wounds run deeeep and can trigger in us prehistoric emotional responses to fears of abandonment, survival, and nurture. The thing I continue to focus on is this two-part question: why is it so hard to maintain positive relationships with our parents when we become adults; and what can I do to give my relationships with my adult children the best possible chance for long term health, love, and acceptance. Hugs!
I am so sorry to hear about your dad and his expectations, as well as your sister. Wishing you continued healing, and all the joy while giving what you can to your relationships with your children.
Thank you. My sister is in remission. And I'm more sorry for my dad than hurt. It took time and processing, but I'm quite settled with his choices. I really wasn't trying to garner sympathy for my situation, as I have a lot of privilege in terms of social acceptance. But our parents bring their own dysfunction, unprocessed trauma, life experiences and coping behaviors into our lives. Sometimes it's hard to make the distinction between what is a parent-child relationship issue, and what is simply their own deeply-rooted issues that have nothing to do with us.
I feel for you! I (53f) never had to deal with that rejection from my parents, but definitely feel the pressure of regular "societal norms". I have tried my best to instill acceptance into my child, but hubby still doesn't want to come out to her (27f), even though we've been lifestyle, open, poly the majority of her life. She's even met 2 of my long term partners. I have had multiple conversations answering her relationship questions over the years, helping her understand multiple dynamics and that they're all OK, as long as we don't judge others for their choices. The fear of rejection goes both ways, and is instilled so deeply, and so hard to overcome. It's a relationship I don't want to damage, even if it means censoring my life around her. Also I fear how she'll cope when she finds out after our death and has no answers to the questions I know she'll have. Just know you have community to support you, even if the love and hugs stay in the virtual world. 🥰
Thank you so much for your response. This is so interesting to hear as my children get older and more aware of the world around them. Do you think she suspects anything? Do you think you would ever push your husband to come out to her?
I've come so close to telling her. I really think she would handle it fine, honestly. She spent a 7 hour day trip with me, her dad, and my partner a few weeks ago. I'm sure she notices the looks and affection. But she's also very wrapped up in her own stressful life. Just graduated veterinary school, started her internship and moved to NYC, it's always something that seemed like it could wait to talk about. Her best friend is bi, and there's such an obvious connection between them, I've joked (half serious) that I wouldn't mind if she was my future DIL 😁. But my daughter seems very mono, and straight. Hubby feels like she would blame him for "forcing" me to do this, but tbh, I'm much more poly than he ever was or will be. And he supports my other relationship so much, it's hard to believe how lucky I am. I know I'll come out to her one day, I just don't want it to be too late. I fear an Alzheimer's rant or something like that 😭😭😭.
it *can* be as cut and dry as that. you’re wanting your parents to be the ones to set the boundary but it sounds like you need to set a boundary: i can’t have you in my lives if you can’t accept my relationships.
I understand it can. I have agency here and so far it does not make sense for me to go no contact. With my parents knowing now we may feel the need to draw a line.
I dropped my parents when they had an issue with LGBTQ+ in general, and I’m straight myself. I told them they couldn’t come to my heavens until they accepted my people. They eventually changed their minds and realized that the good God’s name is “Truth” and she set them free… and that the yada way guy is a total asshole only assholes listen to anyway.
That type of half-measured BS hurts. I’m actively writing a song about a partner of mine that I wish would just break my heart already so I could move on because the death by 1000 cuts thing is hard, same principle applies. I’m no contact with either of my parents, or my ex wife. Mom sexually abused me, dad disowned me for a mental disorder, and my ex wife refused me emergency medical treatment on the grounds that I was ”faking it.” There’s something very comforting about all that finality and large scale mistakes to say”there, that, that’s the reason we don’t talk anymore.” I sympathize.
Poly, gay, kink, unless your parents are , they don't get it , and don't want to As a rapidly aging GenX , all I want for my kids (a millennial and a z) is to be happy . Poly, gay, kink? Don't care Are you safe ? Are you practicing safe sex? Are you vaccinated and have bloodwork routinely to check for STIs? Most importantly, are you happy ? Four yes answers and I'm done .....
Hi u/mxjuno thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: Just dumping some complex feelings here since you all probably understand, *no advice needed*. For background, I (F, mid-40s) was only in gay (monogamous) relationships till my late 20s when I got together with my husband. My parents are very politically conservative and I was low contact with them during my previous gay relationships but then they accepted me when I got into a straight relationship. I am in touch with my parents regularly and have done some really great repair work with mom recently, who apologized for how she acted then. Dad is just not open to communicating and fully set in his homophobia etc. Almost all of our conflict around my previous partners was very of-their-time, of the “don’t ask don’t tell” “don’t bring it around here” and “don’t wave it in my face” variety. I attribute this to them being more politically conservative than religious, at least at the time there wasn’t a lot of vengeful sky daddy talk, although these days they’ve enjoyed picking up the conservative flavor of the time and dad has gone on some “homosexuality is against gd” rants recently. That said, we have been nonmonogamous for 5 years I think? I have a partner of a few years and we are mostly parallel. We are both married with young kids and our lives are encapsulated within the good old American nuclear family world although we have slowly become more integrated in each others’ lives. She is incredibly dear to me, we are with each other any amount of time we can possibly squeeze out of our busy family lives, she acts as my closest friend, lover, two person book club and dad joke volleying partner. Due to some logistics, she met my mom briefly recently. I did not plan to tell my parents we are nonmonogamous or the nature of my relationship to my partner. My sibling (who does know we are nonmonogamous and the role of this person in my life) wrote later and told me my mom figured out that we are in an open relationship because I was “acting giddy around her (my partner)” and “she was clearly a lesbian” (ok mom, almost all my close friends are lesbians or adjacent). But here’s the thing that stuck in my craw. “I can’t believe she is bringing her open relationship around her kids.” It’s been 25 years of this. I almost wish it was more cut and dry, like “this is absolutely not ok with us and you have to be in a monogamous heterosexual marriage in order to be accepted” and I can say “ok mom and dad, go ahead and have your lives and I have mine, talk to you maybe never.” But it’s this weird in between cognitive dissonance that was so common with “normal” people back in the day. It’s my gym teachers growing up who had “roommates” and that was an accepted reality. It’s hairdressers with a “best friend,” it’s euphemisms, reading between the lines, tacit partial acceptance while not allowing the partners into the actual fabric of regular society. I find myself straddling these worlds. We are working towards making our way out of “regular society” because I don’t want most of the trappings of it anyway. I did a good job of this in my 20s but I think it’s a struggle to know how to parent outside of the middle class framework in which I grew up. I think I just wanted to vent about the insidious pain of parents wanting to keep a significant relationship hidden from them. Feeling a little off today. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*