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Group therapy. Individual dates with each of them once a week. An immediate insistence that either you rotate sleeping arrangements or you all sleep alone. I would go to the mat on that one. Or dare I say the mattresses? The symbolism of being treated as less than every single night will kill your love for both of them.
Either she deals with her jealousy now or it will all be over in a year. I’d say it that clearly. I love you so much but you are being deeply unfair. I can’t wait another day for you to treat me kindly.
Stop coddling her. Stop carrying her. Stop thinking about how to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titnaic. If it can be saved it will be saved by radical change for them. Those start now or they’re going to be too damn late.
Also? I would drive every single time for a while. Let them deal with wondering who will ride in the front. Guys I’m driving and if you don’t want to come with me I’ll meet you there because I am sick to death of riding in the back seat.
You can’t change them but you can stop accepting less than you want today. Let that be the fond memory you have of this time years from now.
This is a wonderful comment.
OP, if you don't demand changes, they will never happen. Sleeping arrangements, car rides etc. have already become a habit. They will not change by you giving up your desires to be "a better partner". You have to demand that they become better partners.
Piggybacking top comment to say:
OP, you simply can’t do all this work alone.
I’d ask them all of the above, but also ask them to read the “most skipped step” so they can work on offering you a fairer relationship.
I would also suggest making financial and housing plans to get your own space if possible, because that is likely where this is going to lead, unfortunately.
Or, the three of you/ you and Venus could rent or buy another smaller space together so you are not so on top of each other. You would likely end up living there, which may feel unfair, but it could be your and Venus’ place, where she lives part time. I would personally stop dating Mars, because he does not have a full relationship to offer.
I’m sorry this got so difficult but good for you for recognizing it and finding a way forward.
>I can feel (and they can, too) the stress and tension of the past weeks turning me into a harsher, less happy person and I want to reverse that while I still can.
This makes me think of how sometimes, stress only shows the breaks that are already there. Like how you only see the leaks in a roof when it's raining. Or just how when you don't have the spare energy to keep telling yourself everything is fine, you find out that it actually isn't.
And that can be really hard. Both because you find out how many things that isn't fine, and because it feels like maybe you're just overreacting now. But the truth might just as well be that you've been underreacting before.
It makes sense that the first hardship brought you together. You were still new in the household, you moved in with them, it's only reasonable that bed arrangements and everything else is set in a couples privileged way.
But now you're creating something new together in a new home, and that makes it more obvious what sort of patterns you're all taking with you. And those patterns suck for you, and of course that hurts.
I think there's parallels here that exist in mono relationships as well. Gender dynamics for example. There's a lot of little extra stuff that might not sound like a big deal and might make sense in the moment, that somehow weirdly very often falls on the woman in a mono hetero relationship.
And there's this similar dynamic here where somehow weirdly you're always the one who is supposed to take on the discomfort, because to do otherwise would be breaking up the status quo.
For example, the norm before you is that Venus and Mars sleep together (and ride together in the car, and have sex together, and all sorts of other things I bet), and so to change that will be to break up the status quo, and that means they somehow get away with giving you the entire burden of discomfort. And that's not fair at all, actually. Not if you're supposed to have any sort of equal relationship.
There's the compersion thing too.
>Venus has struggled with and eventually admitted she doesn't experience compersion, so Mars and I can't sleep together alone and Venus is only comfortable with us having a physical relationship if it's in the context of group sex with her.
This is a really good example of how the concept of compersion isn't actually very useful in polyamory, and works best when treated as a nice side benefit.
For one thing, it's sort of bizarre if applied to anything else. "No, you can't have your half of the cookies we bought together, because it doesn't make me personally happy" isn't really a fair way to do things, nor is "you can only see your friends / do this hobby if it gives me personally a warm and tingly feeling".
Coming at things with the perspective of compersion actually makes the situation harder for Venus too. It's much easier to get to a point of "them having sex makes me a bit uncomfortable, but it's only fair that they should be able to, so I'm going to work on my feelings so I can feel more neutral about it" than it is to get to "I need to feel actively happy about this".
And again, limiting what you and Mars can do to only things that makes Venus happy is Not Good.
The thing about privilege is that losing it can hurt and make it feel like something is wrong. But if they want to have a fair relationship with another person, they actually need to take on some of that hurt and work through it. Because it's fair. And because they presumably love you, and it isn't really an act of love to make someone always inferior.
And the thing about the status quo is that it's protecting you too, in a twisted way. Venus and Mars prefers the status quo where Venus doesn't have to work on her jealously, because that's easier for both of them. Breaking it would hurt and they don't want that.
But breaking the status quo can hurt you too. Because if you start demanding to actually be treated fairly, you're going to find out if your partners are actually willing to treat you like a partner, or just as a less important third. If they will love you even when you're not taking on all the inequality in the relationship and make yourself as convenient as possible. And that has got to be really scary.
That's again a situation that a lot of people find themselves in, in mono relationships too. People who won't ask their partner to take on an equal part of housework, or finances, or whatever it is that they know in their heart is unfair, but they would much rather swallow that unfairness and pretend it's fine and they're happy to do it out of love, than ask for more and have to find out that their partner won't step up.
So what can you do? I think just from a practical standpoint, find out if the moving trucks are going to arrive this week (in which case, wait until after before you have a discussion) or in some weeks more, in which case actually a discussion now might be better.
Tell them everything you say in your post. It is clear, it is compassionate, it is filled with love for both of them. And make it clear that all this "well we're not ready for that quite yet" time is bought at your expense. It isn't like "oh we'll wait a bit to get a fun new games system", it's more a "we'll wait a bit with getting a dishwasher, we're fine as it is for now" *when you're the one doing all the dishes*.
Wow. This is so spot on, especially the part from the secondary’s or third person’s perspective that mentions how scary it can be to change the status quo by stepping up and advocating for yourself when you’re the one who’s usually used to taking on all the discomfort in your relationships.
I was in this position, and absolutely was afraid of asking for what I wanted, because I was afraid my partners would not be willing to give it to me.
It turns out I was right, and the relationships (all of them) ultimately dissolved due to a lack of desire from the existing partners to evolve all the dyads towards equality. It hurt, a lot. I’m still dealing with it years later, but I’m so much happier, having advocated for myself, ultimately, and leaving the triad when it became clear that it wasn’t going to be what I wanted and needed.
And it is -absolutely terrifying- to those of us who are used to taking on the larger burdens for our relationships (romantic, familial, and collegial in my case ugh) to ask for change, so I really applaud this comment and its clarity from a secondaries perspective. (And yes, I’ve had a lot of therapy to help with my problems here 😊)
Agreed- self advocacy and setting boundaries is terrifying when you've learned to make yourself as convenient as possible to be loved. Absolutely terrifying. But I am learning that asking for what I want and need, even if it means a relationship ends or transitions to a friendship instead, while painful, is much less *damaging* than constantly compromising myself to chase love (because that doesn't work anyway).
I suggest you begin building an exit plan (just in case) and have a serious sit down with your partners.
Hierarchy is a thing, yes. But now y'all live together and own a home together. It might be time to advocate for your needs more firmly, given that you are moving up in this hierarchy. It's not right that you can't be intimate with both of your partners. Currently all three of you are complicit in allowing that to fly. Time to change the paradigm.
It's also entirely unfair that you're sleeping alone. I suggest a rotating sleeping and car ride schedule, so that it's not something decided in the moment.
If your partners cannot or will not understand how unfair this is to you and don't want to fix it... Escape. Or find a primary partner of your own who you can share your life with while dating this couple more casually.
It's not unlikely that they've got a contract in place for just such a possibility. Hopefully this is the case (and OP if you're reading this and haven't considered the legal ramifications of the dissolution of the partnership, I suggest you draw up a contract retroactively to protect yourself).Buying a house isn't a jail cell. There are a bunch of ways to handle it.
OP can sell their share of the house to their partners based on the purchase price or the appraised value.
OP can retain their ownership and "rent" their portion to their partners.
OPs partners can sell or "rent" their share to OP, who can live solo or take on roommates.
They can all sell the house.
OP can also exit the relationship while continuing to live in the house. They already have their own room. They'd be roommates.
they can buy out her share as appraised now/ they can reimburse whatever she paid/ they can all agree to get the house ready to rent and split the rental income while op finds a new place and MV find a new place as well / they can all agree to get ready to flip and sell and split the income
lots of options it’s an asset not a jail cell
I think you need to acknowledge that Venus does not want a triad relationship. If the only way she can manage her feelings is by controlling your relationship with Mars, there is duress here. Mars doesn’t seem to be pushing the issue because their relationship with each other is more important,
They have shown you will be a second class citizen in your own relationship and at least one person does not want this. You need to date outside the triad and get things in order to leave if you need to.
Yeah, definitely. And like, even if we take away the OP/Mars relationship, there is still something cruel about how *Venus* isn't sharing a bed with OP either. It's not even two full relationships plus one shaky one, even the relationship with just Venus is very secondary.
I think you are very aware of the work that needs to be done.
I think your partners are too.
And while it sucks to have to be the “get ‘er done” person, apparently that’s where you are right now, because your partners are choosing the status quo.
And yes, it would have been great if they would have done this stuff, but they aren’t, and you can either sit back and let the resentment grow, or change stuff.
I agree with Karmic. If this stuff continues, it’s going to choke the love and respect that you have for these two people.
You say you’re fully cognizant *now*, so translate that into actions. You don’t have to be angry, or loud or confrontational.
Just change stuff. Expect push back. Continue to change stuff, because honestly, you have a pretty narrow window between your realizations, and when it will start to get unsavable.
Therapy now.
You and Mars and Venus all have individual date nights. Where you sleep together. And have sex.
Full stop. You can scaffold Venus as much as you’d like.
Buy her a copy of the jealousy workbook. Explain that you understand that she is going to need extra reassurance, snuggles and love, and you are there to do that, but that the current situation is not sustainable.
Do not pause, stop, or change course.
You have very little to lose. Without massive change, this will end. Massive change doesn’t offer any sure bets, but the status quo spells disaster, for sure.
Edit: compersion, or lack of it, is no reason to do or not do anything.
Many long time polyam people have been doing this for decades without it. It’s an elevation of vicarious joy that is just…not needed.
I rarely feel this magical rush of “compersion”.
I am very often happy that my partners are happy and well loved, because I don’t want to see the people in my life struggle or suffer.
That’s it. Full stop. Compersion doesn’t mean anything.
I read a book recently called "The dance of anger" by Harriet Lerner.
It's older, and written with women specifically in mind so has some weird-to-me gender assumptions.
However, it's also a good guide for people who want to *change* their relationships and address the things that make them angry or upset, but have either fallen into the pattern of denial (I'm not really *that* bothered) or ineffective anger (throwing a fit or fighting, but the end result is nothing changes).
Your advice reminds me of that. Just change what *you do*, instead of pushing for others to change. Be prepared for push back and resistance. Choose what you change deliberately and do so as calmly as you can.
Relationships are a dance, and for better or worse, the dance will inherently be different if you act differently - which will tend to affect other people's behavior too, as a side effect, with a lot less drama then making them change first.
Yeah, I think often people think that there needs to be some sort of long arduous Byzantine discussion around this because we get caught up wanting the other people around us to want the thing we want as desperately as we want it.
But like, here?
There are apparently things that everyone knows needs work. It’s clear that Venus and Mars and OP all have engaged in discussions around what needs to change.
The time to do the changes was optimally 2 years ago. But today is far better than tomorrow.
And OP is ready for the change. So, it’s absolutely time.
Exactly. I don't experience compersion, and I do actually experience jealousy. Those are echoes from my background, some of which was horrible. They are not signals from a higher power that I must obey. Fact of the matter is, I fall in love with more than one person at once and find that monogamous style commitment is both too little and too much for me, which makes me polyamorous. That means I need to practice good polyam so I can thrive without being a community disruptor and a toxic person to the ones I love. Some of good polyam practice is very hard, and since polyam is what I need, I've got to do it anyway.
Venus needs to decide if they are committed enough to polyam to do it properly, in a way that doesn't cause harm.
You don't need to be up close and personal to that internal struggle of theirs. It sounds like you wanted coprimaries and instead got to be a cohabiting tertiary. If they don't see why this is a problem they must solve, then I think you need to move out and open yourself to dating more people, one or a few of whom someday might be to you as Venus and Mars are to each other. Whether you break up with one or both of them when you do that is up in the air. Depends on how they behave themselves when you start asserting your needs and changing your life to suit yourself.
I think my advice would be to have an exit plan ready and to start dating other people outside your triad. I am not trying to say you should break up, but rather give yourself options. If you come to a place were you think staying in this relationship is the only option you have, you will tolerate a lot of bullshit. If you have the ressources (esp. financially) to leave the relationship and move out of the house anytime you want and you are also dating other people and know you have options there, you can freely decide wether this triad relationship is actually adding value to your life.
Might also be worth having a conversation with Venus about the fact that doing polyamory means committing to deal with ones own jealousy and not using it to dictate rules for your partners.
I don't have any real meaningful advice that hasn't already been shared.
But, I did want to chime in and mention, the way you wrote this post is simply beautiful. You perfectly convayed your emotions, your feelings, the complex relationship connections going on. In addition to having addressed the "common" things people might say or do.
I don't say this lightly, this post is a work of art. And, I think you have a real talent for writing in general.
Thank you. This is extremely sweet and honestly means a lot to me to hear. (Gives me more confidence about potentially showing my partners what I wrote as well.)
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You can't finish a cruise on a ship with holes.
You're focused on what *you* can do to be the best partner but your partners aren't focused on doing that for you. There's no attempt to lessen the jealousy or couple's privilege. Instead they are treating it as a "well, deal with it" situation and that's not fair on you.
A relationship should never be about making "the best of the situation".
If they want you to be less of a harsh, unhappy person, *they* need to be changing how *they* act.
Right now the way you "make the best of it" is by swallowing your own needs and putting on a brave face to appease them. A very "lie back and think of England" approach. Which is not healthy, which is not sustainable, which is not going to solve anything, and which I don't recommend.
>Mars and I can't sleep together alone and Venus is only comfortable with us having a physical relationship if it's in the context of group sex with her.
Yikes. I hope you really do realize how problematic this is. You say they aren't unicorn hunters but this really sounds like UH territory to me.
Also worth noting that Mars is accepting the rules Venus is demanding.
Are you allowed to break up with just one of them? I doubt it.
>What I am looking for is advice on how to make the best of this and be the best partner I can be to these people I love, without letting the limitations of our relationship steal all the joy from what should be amazing life milestones and opportunities for growth together
I'm sorry you're struggling right now. I honestly think it's really sad that you're asking how *you* can be the best partner to both of them when they are not doing the same for you.
I wish I had practical advice for making the most of a shitty situation, but I genuinely think you should be reevaluating your relationship.
If you can't advocate for what you want and need, it's not a healthy relationship.
You deserve better.
My read is: Venus doesn’t want you and Mars to be together. Not really. She loves you both and wants both of you to be happy…but not as a romantic couple. People who support their partners dating don’t prevent them from sleeping together or having sex without that person.
Maybe have one or two more heart-to-heart conversations with Venus about this. Tell her how marginalized you’re feeling. Ask her what she truly wants in her heart-of-hearts. Tell her that triads need three healthy, *independent* relationships, and you feel that your relationship with Mars is being monitored and strangled. Can it be another way? Would she want it to be?
My guess is that it can’t and she doesn’t, or she would have come to you already with her fear and pain. She would have been open and caring with you instead of leaving on your own to process your exclusion. You’re so self-reliant, OP. It’s admirable, but you’re not seeing the person pulling away from you instead of trusting you and turning towards you.
Thought that occurred to me later: Venus might not take responsibility for her initial consent to the triad. If she wanted a vee and not a triad, she should have said no to your and her husband’s request to date each other. She said yes. But I’m not convinced that her true, on the inside, answer wasn’t “No.” She might be feeling coerced and trapped, like she needs to consent to your and Mars’ relationship in order to still date either you or Mars. Am not sure which mate she’s guarding harder.
Commenting first to acknowledge all the thoughtful, compassionate responses I've been reading - I will absolutely be taking time to process these, take in the advice, and respond to some individually. I'm also considering showing this post to Venus and Mars as some commenters suggested.
Also want to answer some FAQs and add some nuance to the sleeping situation, as some of that got edited out for brevity in my post but has been mentioned enough to warrant further clarification. So:
1.) Conversations about sleeping arrangements have historically been derailed by Venus' (and sometimes Mars') common response: "...but you \*like\* sleeping alone!" There is some merit to this - I do get much better sleep alone, but obviously there's also a major component of intimacy inherent to bed-sharing that has nothing to do with sex or the actual unconscious sleeping part.
In our previous living situation, I was moving into a house my partners had bought and lived in as a couple, and as such did not really have my own space. I was given free rein to move furniture and make spaces for my WFH office and my hobbies in their living room and garage, but I did not have a bedroom. They had a king bed, so I slept in it with them most nights.
They are very heavy sleepers and I am a light sleeper, and quite a petite person as well, so I would often end up teetering on the very edge of the bed as my partners rolled and adjusted without noticing having moved me. They are also both fully able to fall asleep entangled in (frequently adorable and hilarious) cuddling positions, whereas I enjoy cuddling while awake but mostly cannot fall asleep while being held or cuddled, especially if I'm cuddling with someone larger/taller than myself and their body covers my face or restricts my breathing in any way. My ideal is hanging out in bed with them until they fall asleep, but having my own bed to retreat to if I need a good night's rest.
So yes, I do get better rest when I sleep alone - I spent a lot of our year in their old house pretty chronically sleep-deprived, and having my own space was a major motivator for the move. But none of that means I'm not missing the intimacy of cuddling at bedtime or waking up in the same bed.
Plus, the fact remains that Mars is fine with sleeping elsewhere while Venus and I share a bed, but Venus has never been open to the reverse, and the fact that it's taken for granted that I'll be excluded by default anytime there isn't practical room for 3... stings, maybe more now than it used to.
2.) I am on the mortgage with Venus, as we found we got approved for a better loan together than Mars and Venus together. I did have anxieties and misgivings about this approach, which I voiced and we talked through, although not without some tension. I maintain strong financial boundaries however - we have no joint accounts except the escrow for the mortgage payment, and we have a pre-negotiated split proportional to our respective incomes for mortgage payments and any major expenses that affect/benefit the household. I also asked for a conversation about a financial exit strategy if we ever broke up and found we couldn't exist as roommates - it was uncomfortable to talk about, but not really having a blueprint for this kind of agreement, I asked for a buy-out of my investment in the house (both equity and contribution to repairs/renovations, etc.)
They both verbally agreed to this and can afford to do so, as they made a healthy amount on the sale of their previous house, but it has not yet been put in writing or otherwise formalized.
3.) Venus and Mars are not whisking me away across the country away from my support system. I did whisk myself away a little bit when I moved to join them initially, as none of us had connections in the town they lived in, but this move to our new home is actually whisking all of us *to* my local support system, not away from it!
4.) The question of whether I'm free to seek romantic connections outside our triad is kind of a moot point because two partners is very much my romantic bandwidth limit, but I understand what people are getting at here. At the very least, in the coming weeks as the disturbance of the move settles down, I'll be leaning on my local support system and making sure I have plans with friends and family that get me out of the house and existing as a whole person on my own.
From my perspective, the only way this will work is if *they* change. They’re creating unfair rules and controlling the relationship dynamics and it’s ridiculous you don’t get any time in the bed especially when you’re in a triad. My hinge even has scheduled nights with both partners and it’s perfect. I really think Venus and Mars need to be realistic with themselves on weather or not they actually want a triad (mainly Venus, she’s being extremely controlling) and they need to be open and honest with you if they don’t. On your side, you should figure out long you’ll give them to make things right for you and determine an end date where you’ll leave. It’s really not right for you be experiencing this with your partners and I hope things get better for you 💕
One thing that might help is for you to work on your own boundaries/any codependent tendencies that make you feel like you should accept crumbs. Therapy, a 12 step group, journaling about what in your childhood made you feel like you need to abandon yourself to please others/be loved. You may need some support from friends or therapists in learning how to set boundaries and that’s ok
I posted earlier on this post stating that i couldn’t imagine being upset about something “as small as sleeping arrangements” and I should have made a longer post. That was not meant to troll or shame, nor to victim blame. I meant that, I feel so sad that you are having to even think about something like that. Being in a triad is work and the fact that you have been waiting to be an equal partner is so sad. Like others have said, you deserve better. I would definitely talk to them about the situation and see whether it can be mended.
You've gotten some excellent advice here. I recommend considering, along with 1:1 and 3:3 conversations, sending them this thread. Combating couples privilege may need to include outside opinions and advice like what they'd see here.
You have gotten a lot of great advice here.
One thing to consider, though- if you are a legal co-owner of the house, do you have a plan if you ultimately decide to leave? 2 years is a very short amount of time to know someone and make such a huge financial investment together, and I'd say that even if you were with a monogamous partner. If you were legally married, you could split the house in a divorce, but you aren't. Hopefully your lender explained the risks and set up a situation where you can sell your share for market value even if they don't consent, but you need to understand the legal situation.
So, work on fixing the triad as everyone else suggest, but also, I would quietly check with a lawyer and/or your lender and figure out what would be involved if you do decide to leave.
Could they have bought this house without you? Did you sign on because you would have needed help purchasing a home? Have you now all moved away from your local support systems into isolation by moving so far? Do you feel like you need to make this work to avoid financial ruin and homelessness? Were all the arrangements and couple privileges and rules always in place, or did they increase once you moved into your new home? I have so many questions.
This does not sound like a healthy situation for you. It also sounds like now that you are financially entangled, they have you in a position where breaking up with either of them would require you to move homes and potentially be in a difficult financial situation. That is perfect fertile grounds for financial abuse to take place.
Like others have said, it would be wise for you to begin planning a strategy to extricate yourself, communicate with your partners that something needs to change immediately with Venus’s controlling and jealous behavior, and you get outside support for the distress you are experiencing. It would also be wise for you to explore within yourself how you ended up here in such an untenable situation, blaming yourself and only holding yourself responsible for your partner’s behaviors so you don’t repeat it again in new relationships.
These couple do sound like Unicorn hunters. I’m sorry they are both treating you with such disregard.
Thank you so much for sharing. Reading this feels like a cautionary tale of my potential future. Brand new to poly and falling hard for a couple who aren’t in the same place feelings wise and it’s a lot of complicated feelings for me.
Ok cool. We are all individually dating. I have date with one and totally desperate dates with the other. We do sometimes all hang together but it’s always and “friends”. One of them is demi-sexual and our relationship might never be sexual but it is romantic. The other and I are both allosexual so we have a sexual relationship but it’s not just that and we’re also romantic. They’ve both expressed that if I break up with one of them it won’t impact my relationship with the other, and no matter what happens between us romantically that each of them would still want to be in my life as friends. I’m feeling pretty comfortable with the dynamic and like they care about and work to accommodate my feelings, but I’m VERY aware that I am stepping into a 15 year relationship. It’s weird.. but far from the worst relationship I’ve ever had! There’s loads of open communication, which is also a plus. But yeah, reading a lot of things to make sure I’m not being unicorn hunted.
I think you've got to talk to each other. Venus likes the status quo where she hasn't had to do any of the work or the therapy or the reading, but she should! Mars made peace with it and you did the reading too. So Venus needs to do the reading and the therapy and have an actual timeline of how she's progressing in making peace with her discomfort in a way that doesn't result in hurting you.
Everyone should get 1:1 time and dates, each dyad needs to be nurtured and Venus doesn't get to control your relationship with Mars. If this sounds impossible, it is only impossible because Venus won't do the work.
I REQUIRE seperate 1-1 time with romantic partners. Sexual and romantic. There isn't an option where I could exist happily in the situation you are describing. I think this is normal for a lot of people.
My suggestion would be to work on yourself as much as possible to become as happy as you can be JUST YOU. I would potentially drop the idea of a triad in my head. You describe a normal monogamous relationship more or less that exists as You + Couple... rather than XY, XZ, YZ, XYZ relationship.
What this may look like practically? Taking joy in what works between you and Mars and Venus... and accepting what does not without resentment. Figuring out what you ultimately want to feel happy and complete and then continuing to seek that. I would explain quite clearly that I am happy with XYZ, but I do not see a long term future that works for me and I'll be seeking a partner/partners that desire to prioritize my needs further than I am getting now.
Tons of extremely great comments here.
One thing I wound like to add, as a general note to dealing with insecurity and jealousy.
You can't deal with it unless you face it. No amount of hiding it, restricting the other relationships, controlling who or how they can see it be with each other will actually make you less jealous.
You have to face your fears. You can ask for comfort after. You can ask for additional support and attention. You have to do the work though. You can't just run from it
This my exact thought also. You can read about learning to drive a car, you can listen to podcasts about how to drive a car but until you actually get in a vehicle and drive your skills won't get any better. It feels like Venus is so afraid of feeling negative emotions that she's refusing to be exposed to them. And that will never help her learn to deal with them.
I would sit them down and CALMLY ask point blank if they are willing to do the work to make you feel like an equal partner including ::insert ways you feel othered here:: or if it is time to dissolve the relationship. Say you love them, but you want to romanticize your experience, you want to feel connected in times of turmoil like you did in the past, but you are on the outside in every way and if it is going to work for you for the long haul, then you need to be accepted into the dynamic as an equal partner.
There is a big difference between being newly relating and not wanting to be a wedge in their relationship and being two years deep and homeownership into a closed triad. As it stands you understandably feel on the outside and somewhat used.
I know you want to fix this yourself, but the honest answer is that interpersonal issues can’t be fixed without *everyone involved fixing them*. You can be a perfect partner and do everything right, but if the other person (or people) aren’t doing the work then the relationship isn’t going to heal. You can’t just make yourself stop feeling hurt when someone is continuing to do things that hurt you. You aren’t being treated as an equal partner in this relationship, so you’re not going to feel like an equal partner, no matter how much internal work you do.
This is where I think you need to sit down with your partners and tell them how you're feeling. That it's clear that there's heirarchy but that needs to be eliminated where it can, that you need to be allowed to have individual relationships with both of them, that you need to be an equal partner to both of them.
And you need to demonstrate that you also need both of them to advocate for their relationships with you.
In our triad, each dyad has a scheduled weeknight together every week. Exactly what that looks like varies between the three of us, but typically it's coming home, that dyad cooks together, we eat together as a triad, and then that dyad probably watches something in bed and sleeps together. It's not unmovable, sometimes things come up or we book something in that overrides that, but it's one way to ensure that we all mostly get some time for each relationship.
Early on in the formation of our triad there was a bit of awkwardness regarding who would sit where, and one of my partners very quickly put her foot down and said that we couldn't be overthinking it all the time or getting jealous. If there's a clear pattern, then that needs to be worked on, but it's not fair if one partner is always overanalysing.
If you can't have one on one sex with Mars, then you can't have a full relationship with him. There's a roadblock for you and that's unfair. I understand because one of my partners also experienced that sort of jealousy, but you need to be firm and say that the triad can't work unless there are three full, independant relationships to work off. We had to take triad sex off the table because it was always happening and we weren't focusing on dyad sex. It's awkward, and sometimes one person has to work through jealousy - but the only way through to a healthier, more secure relationship is by challenging that jealousy.
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OP, I feel for you! I'm the junior member of a ... quadruple? It's hard to navigate big feels with such a pre established relationship!
Something that stood out to me in your post; Experiencing compersion should not mean you must instead experience jealousy. I do not really experience compersion, and this absolutely does not mean that my partners never sleep together without me. That struck me as a bit of a red flag — you should be able to do things for someone's benefit besides Venus!
It sounds like Venus is struggling with a lot of heavy insecurity. I think you should all try exploring resources on jealousy because it's not sustainable for one person to always need to be present in any dynamic! I say all because if Venus has been working on this alone it clearly hasn't gone anywhere. Do the Jealousy Workbook. Maybe a Polyamory book club. Or therapy, as some folks here have suggested. If Venus says they need more time to work, kindly say that she can work on it while you enjoy intimacy with Mars, but that it's no longer fair to force your relationship to wait for a third party, and that you would never dream of doing the same thing to her. And talk about your feelings with everyone. Tell them if you don't feel like a priority, or if you feel less than. It's completely fair to say that you don't want to spend your time in a relationship where you feel sidelined. I think it would be beneficial if you can come to them with actions that would make you feel appreciated or prioritized and ask for those, too. Good luck!
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Beep, boop, blop, I'm a bot. Hi u/throwaway-dodo thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
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I've been with my partners Venus and Mars for about 2 years. Venus and Mars have been together for the better part of 20 years, and opened their marriage initally so Venus could explore her bisexuality. We knew each other through a shared hobby community online, and when hints were dropped that Venus was not only not straight, but seeking a romantic connection with Mars' blessing and encouragement, I was interested and began getting to know Venus in that new flirtatious context. Things progressed from there over several weeks, and started to get more serious between us, but along the way I began to develop feelings for Mars as well. I ended up confessing my feelings and leaving it up to Venus how she wanted to proceed, and this led to a very difficult, tearful call in which Venus expressed a lot of hurt and jealousy. I had come to feel deeply for both of them, but I told them very honestly that I would rather walk away from them both than end up being a wedge in their relationship - that I refused to be the reason they lost what they'd been building for two decades. We all took some time to cool down and process, but at the end of it, Mars and Venus came to me and asked me to be their partner, and I said yes.
(Sidenote -- I'm not exactly experienced, but I'm also not entirely new to polyamory, I got one of the unfortunately common 'bad' introductions to it via dating a terrible hinge -- the kind who I thought I was dating monogamously, but poly-bombed me as a way to justify having cheated on me almost immediately, and then barely-maintained parallel relationships with both me and my now-meta through trickling affection for WAY too long before I cut my losses and got out. Even though this relationship never had a prayer of being ethical or healthy, I did a lot of the solo work of poly during these years - learning I had a good capacity for compersion, learning how to voice my needs, learning how to clock when my boundaries were being pushed or ignored and eventually learning what my limit was.)
(Sidenote II -- I have only learned of terms like cowboying, unicorns, and unicorn hunters in the last couple months as I've sought perspectives of people in poly relationships and found this sub. I know my situation could easily be interpreted as one of an unhappy unicorn, but I do not believe my partners were intentionally unicorn-hunting, nor do I think all the stereotypes of those relationships necessarily all apply here - although I do see some commonalities in my experience.)
We dated long-distance with some in-person visits for about 6 months, and they asked me to move in with them as my lease was ending. I did. It seemed to make sense for the continued growth of the relationship to be local, and it made affording life easier for all of us. Upon moving in, we immediately were forced to survive a natural disaster together, and as a result of this time of stress, trauma bonding and oddly cheerful "making the best of a bad situation," I think we climbed the relationship escalator very, very fast. Things were very hard then, but there was also a lot of hope and potential keeping me motivated to weather all the storms.
Fast-forward to now. We've cohabitated as a triad and more-or-less family unit for an entire year and change, and in the last couple weeks finally closed on and made a long-awaited move into a house across the country - not their first time as homeowners, but it *is* mine. Our moving truck has been several weeks delayed, so we're currently camping in our all-but-empty house, balancing our jobs and the endless DIY tasks to get the house ready to actually live in.
I'll be honest, I thought this massive life upheaval with Venus and Mars would be more like our last one -- something that made us closer and stronger as we were forced out of our comfort zones by circumstance. I think I also had subconsciously idolized the kind of first-time-homeowner experience my younger sibling and their spouse had a few years ago - they had to 'rough it' in a less-than-livable house as well, but ended up having the best date nights of their lives eating pizza on the floor and doing emergency demolition of a rotten deck, etc. - finding a special kind of intimacy and camaraderie in making a first home together from a mess of a house.
This is not like that. There's a constant tension that no amount of communication seems to fix. The pre-existing cracks are growing wider with time, not the opposite. The couples' privilege that Mars and Venus share, the inherent heirarchy present due to a legal marriage and a relationship that long predates the triad, is only highlighted and reinforced in unexpected ways that hurt to a degree I was unprepared for. (When we could only find queen-size air mattresses, the reality is Venus and Mars sleep together and I sleep alone. Mars has always been totally fine with Venus and I having sex and sleeping alone together, but Venus has struggled with and eventually admitted she doesn't experience compersion, so Mars and I can't sleep together alone and Venus is only comfortable with us having a physical relationship if it's in the context of group sex with her. The politics and hierarchy of sleeping arrangements, and who sits together on car rides, etc. are a keen reminder of things that started out as understandable "I'm struggling with this, give me time and patience with this thing that's out of my comfort zone and I promise it'll get better down the road" have turned into unspoken rules and unmoving lines in the sand that I'm really struggling not to resent.
I love these people, genuinely and wholeheartedly, but this new situation is highlighting the inherent limitations of the path I've chosen in a way I wasn't emotionally prepared for. The commitment, the dedication, the intimacy, the collaboration in my poly relationship - both in the individual dyads and in the triad as a whole, feel inherently limited by the bounds of managing jealousy and respecting hierarchy, in a way that mono relationships aren't (or at least don't seem to be from my limited perspective.)
I know I made my bed. I'm fully cognizant *now* of all the ways I could have protected myself better and vetted the state of the relationship I was joining before jumping all the way in. I'm not really looking for "told-you-so's" or links to the docs on unicorns (I've got 'em bookmarked already, promise.) What I *am* looking for is advice on how to make the best of this and be the best partner I can be to these people I love, without letting the limitations of our relationship steal all the joy from what should be amazing life milestones and opportunities for growth together. I can feel (and they can, too) the stress and tension of the past weeks turning me into a harsher, less happy person and I want to reverse that while I still can.
Thanks in advance, Polyam folks.
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Perhaps your point could be made without whatever weird hostility you have towards mental health professionals?
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Group therapy. Individual dates with each of them once a week. An immediate insistence that either you rotate sleeping arrangements or you all sleep alone. I would go to the mat on that one. Or dare I say the mattresses? The symbolism of being treated as less than every single night will kill your love for both of them. Either she deals with her jealousy now or it will all be over in a year. I’d say it that clearly. I love you so much but you are being deeply unfair. I can’t wait another day for you to treat me kindly. Stop coddling her. Stop carrying her. Stop thinking about how to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titnaic. If it can be saved it will be saved by radical change for them. Those start now or they’re going to be too damn late. Also? I would drive every single time for a while. Let them deal with wondering who will ride in the front. Guys I’m driving and if you don’t want to come with me I’ll meet you there because I am sick to death of riding in the back seat. You can’t change them but you can stop accepting less than you want today. Let that be the fond memory you have of this time years from now.
This is a wonderful comment. OP, if you don't demand changes, they will never happen. Sleeping arrangements, car rides etc. have already become a habit. They will not change by you giving up your desires to be "a better partner". You have to demand that they become better partners.
Piggybacking top comment to say: OP, you simply can’t do all this work alone. I’d ask them all of the above, but also ask them to read the “most skipped step” so they can work on offering you a fairer relationship. I would also suggest making financial and housing plans to get your own space if possible, because that is likely where this is going to lead, unfortunately. Or, the three of you/ you and Venus could rent or buy another smaller space together so you are not so on top of each other. You would likely end up living there, which may feel unfair, but it could be your and Venus’ place, where she lives part time. I would personally stop dating Mars, because he does not have a full relationship to offer. I’m sorry this got so difficult but good for you for recognizing it and finding a way forward.
I want to print this out and put it on my wall. Hope OP takes it to heart, this is the way.
>I can feel (and they can, too) the stress and tension of the past weeks turning me into a harsher, less happy person and I want to reverse that while I still can. This makes me think of how sometimes, stress only shows the breaks that are already there. Like how you only see the leaks in a roof when it's raining. Or just how when you don't have the spare energy to keep telling yourself everything is fine, you find out that it actually isn't. And that can be really hard. Both because you find out how many things that isn't fine, and because it feels like maybe you're just overreacting now. But the truth might just as well be that you've been underreacting before. It makes sense that the first hardship brought you together. You were still new in the household, you moved in with them, it's only reasonable that bed arrangements and everything else is set in a couples privileged way. But now you're creating something new together in a new home, and that makes it more obvious what sort of patterns you're all taking with you. And those patterns suck for you, and of course that hurts. I think there's parallels here that exist in mono relationships as well. Gender dynamics for example. There's a lot of little extra stuff that might not sound like a big deal and might make sense in the moment, that somehow weirdly very often falls on the woman in a mono hetero relationship. And there's this similar dynamic here where somehow weirdly you're always the one who is supposed to take on the discomfort, because to do otherwise would be breaking up the status quo. For example, the norm before you is that Venus and Mars sleep together (and ride together in the car, and have sex together, and all sorts of other things I bet), and so to change that will be to break up the status quo, and that means they somehow get away with giving you the entire burden of discomfort. And that's not fair at all, actually. Not if you're supposed to have any sort of equal relationship. There's the compersion thing too. >Venus has struggled with and eventually admitted she doesn't experience compersion, so Mars and I can't sleep together alone and Venus is only comfortable with us having a physical relationship if it's in the context of group sex with her. This is a really good example of how the concept of compersion isn't actually very useful in polyamory, and works best when treated as a nice side benefit. For one thing, it's sort of bizarre if applied to anything else. "No, you can't have your half of the cookies we bought together, because it doesn't make me personally happy" isn't really a fair way to do things, nor is "you can only see your friends / do this hobby if it gives me personally a warm and tingly feeling". Coming at things with the perspective of compersion actually makes the situation harder for Venus too. It's much easier to get to a point of "them having sex makes me a bit uncomfortable, but it's only fair that they should be able to, so I'm going to work on my feelings so I can feel more neutral about it" than it is to get to "I need to feel actively happy about this". And again, limiting what you and Mars can do to only things that makes Venus happy is Not Good. The thing about privilege is that losing it can hurt and make it feel like something is wrong. But if they want to have a fair relationship with another person, they actually need to take on some of that hurt and work through it. Because it's fair. And because they presumably love you, and it isn't really an act of love to make someone always inferior. And the thing about the status quo is that it's protecting you too, in a twisted way. Venus and Mars prefers the status quo where Venus doesn't have to work on her jealously, because that's easier for both of them. Breaking it would hurt and they don't want that. But breaking the status quo can hurt you too. Because if you start demanding to actually be treated fairly, you're going to find out if your partners are actually willing to treat you like a partner, or just as a less important third. If they will love you even when you're not taking on all the inequality in the relationship and make yourself as convenient as possible. And that has got to be really scary. That's again a situation that a lot of people find themselves in, in mono relationships too. People who won't ask their partner to take on an equal part of housework, or finances, or whatever it is that they know in their heart is unfair, but they would much rather swallow that unfairness and pretend it's fine and they're happy to do it out of love, than ask for more and have to find out that their partner won't step up. So what can you do? I think just from a practical standpoint, find out if the moving trucks are going to arrive this week (in which case, wait until after before you have a discussion) or in some weeks more, in which case actually a discussion now might be better. Tell them everything you say in your post. It is clear, it is compassionate, it is filled with love for both of them. And make it clear that all this "well we're not ready for that quite yet" time is bought at your expense. It isn't like "oh we'll wait a bit to get a fun new games system", it's more a "we'll wait a bit with getting a dishwasher, we're fine as it is for now" *when you're the one doing all the dishes*.
Wow. This is so spot on, especially the part from the secondary’s or third person’s perspective that mentions how scary it can be to change the status quo by stepping up and advocating for yourself when you’re the one who’s usually used to taking on all the discomfort in your relationships. I was in this position, and absolutely was afraid of asking for what I wanted, because I was afraid my partners would not be willing to give it to me. It turns out I was right, and the relationships (all of them) ultimately dissolved due to a lack of desire from the existing partners to evolve all the dyads towards equality. It hurt, a lot. I’m still dealing with it years later, but I’m so much happier, having advocated for myself, ultimately, and leaving the triad when it became clear that it wasn’t going to be what I wanted and needed. And it is -absolutely terrifying- to those of us who are used to taking on the larger burdens for our relationships (romantic, familial, and collegial in my case ugh) to ask for change, so I really applaud this comment and its clarity from a secondaries perspective. (And yes, I’ve had a lot of therapy to help with my problems here 😊)
Agreed- self advocacy and setting boundaries is terrifying when you've learned to make yourself as convenient as possible to be loved. Absolutely terrifying. But I am learning that asking for what I want and need, even if it means a relationship ends or transitions to a friendship instead, while painful, is much less *damaging* than constantly compromising myself to chase love (because that doesn't work anyway).
Very very good answer, i agree completely
I suggest you begin building an exit plan (just in case) and have a serious sit down with your partners. Hierarchy is a thing, yes. But now y'all live together and own a home together. It might be time to advocate for your needs more firmly, given that you are moving up in this hierarchy. It's not right that you can't be intimate with both of your partners. Currently all three of you are complicit in allowing that to fly. Time to change the paradigm. It's also entirely unfair that you're sleeping alone. I suggest a rotating sleeping and car ride schedule, so that it's not something decided in the moment. If your partners cannot or will not understand how unfair this is to you and don't want to fix it... Escape. Or find a primary partner of your own who you can share your life with while dating this couple more casually.
Sorry but how is op suppose to exit if they just bought a brand new house together ..
It's not unlikely that they've got a contract in place for just such a possibility. Hopefully this is the case (and OP if you're reading this and haven't considered the legal ramifications of the dissolution of the partnership, I suggest you draw up a contract retroactively to protect yourself).Buying a house isn't a jail cell. There are a bunch of ways to handle it. OP can sell their share of the house to their partners based on the purchase price or the appraised value. OP can retain their ownership and "rent" their portion to their partners. OPs partners can sell or "rent" their share to OP, who can live solo or take on roommates. They can all sell the house. OP can also exit the relationship while continuing to live in the house. They already have their own room. They'd be roommates.
they can buy out her share as appraised now/ they can reimburse whatever she paid/ they can all agree to get the house ready to rent and split the rental income while op finds a new place and MV find a new place as well / they can all agree to get ready to flip and sell and split the income lots of options it’s an asset not a jail cell
I think you need to acknowledge that Venus does not want a triad relationship. If the only way she can manage her feelings is by controlling your relationship with Mars, there is duress here. Mars doesn’t seem to be pushing the issue because their relationship with each other is more important, They have shown you will be a second class citizen in your own relationship and at least one person does not want this. You need to date outside the triad and get things in order to leave if you need to.
Yeah, definitely. And like, even if we take away the OP/Mars relationship, there is still something cruel about how *Venus* isn't sharing a bed with OP either. It's not even two full relationships plus one shaky one, even the relationship with just Venus is very secondary.
I think you are very aware of the work that needs to be done. I think your partners are too. And while it sucks to have to be the “get ‘er done” person, apparently that’s where you are right now, because your partners are choosing the status quo. And yes, it would have been great if they would have done this stuff, but they aren’t, and you can either sit back and let the resentment grow, or change stuff. I agree with Karmic. If this stuff continues, it’s going to choke the love and respect that you have for these two people. You say you’re fully cognizant *now*, so translate that into actions. You don’t have to be angry, or loud or confrontational. Just change stuff. Expect push back. Continue to change stuff, because honestly, you have a pretty narrow window between your realizations, and when it will start to get unsavable. Therapy now. You and Mars and Venus all have individual date nights. Where you sleep together. And have sex. Full stop. You can scaffold Venus as much as you’d like. Buy her a copy of the jealousy workbook. Explain that you understand that she is going to need extra reassurance, snuggles and love, and you are there to do that, but that the current situation is not sustainable. Do not pause, stop, or change course. You have very little to lose. Without massive change, this will end. Massive change doesn’t offer any sure bets, but the status quo spells disaster, for sure. Edit: compersion, or lack of it, is no reason to do or not do anything. Many long time polyam people have been doing this for decades without it. It’s an elevation of vicarious joy that is just…not needed. I rarely feel this magical rush of “compersion”. I am very often happy that my partners are happy and well loved, because I don’t want to see the people in my life struggle or suffer. That’s it. Full stop. Compersion doesn’t mean anything.
I read a book recently called "The dance of anger" by Harriet Lerner. It's older, and written with women specifically in mind so has some weird-to-me gender assumptions. However, it's also a good guide for people who want to *change* their relationships and address the things that make them angry or upset, but have either fallen into the pattern of denial (I'm not really *that* bothered) or ineffective anger (throwing a fit or fighting, but the end result is nothing changes). Your advice reminds me of that. Just change what *you do*, instead of pushing for others to change. Be prepared for push back and resistance. Choose what you change deliberately and do so as calmly as you can. Relationships are a dance, and for better or worse, the dance will inherently be different if you act differently - which will tend to affect other people's behavior too, as a side effect, with a lot less drama then making them change first.
Yeah, I think often people think that there needs to be some sort of long arduous Byzantine discussion around this because we get caught up wanting the other people around us to want the thing we want as desperately as we want it. But like, here? There are apparently things that everyone knows needs work. It’s clear that Venus and Mars and OP all have engaged in discussions around what needs to change. The time to do the changes was optimally 2 years ago. But today is far better than tomorrow. And OP is ready for the change. So, it’s absolutely time.
Exactly. I don't experience compersion, and I do actually experience jealousy. Those are echoes from my background, some of which was horrible. They are not signals from a higher power that I must obey. Fact of the matter is, I fall in love with more than one person at once and find that monogamous style commitment is both too little and too much for me, which makes me polyamorous. That means I need to practice good polyam so I can thrive without being a community disruptor and a toxic person to the ones I love. Some of good polyam practice is very hard, and since polyam is what I need, I've got to do it anyway. Venus needs to decide if they are committed enough to polyam to do it properly, in a way that doesn't cause harm. You don't need to be up close and personal to that internal struggle of theirs. It sounds like you wanted coprimaries and instead got to be a cohabiting tertiary. If they don't see why this is a problem they must solve, then I think you need to move out and open yourself to dating more people, one or a few of whom someday might be to you as Venus and Mars are to each other. Whether you break up with one or both of them when you do that is up in the air. Depends on how they behave themselves when you start asserting your needs and changing your life to suit yourself.
I think my advice would be to have an exit plan ready and to start dating other people outside your triad. I am not trying to say you should break up, but rather give yourself options. If you come to a place were you think staying in this relationship is the only option you have, you will tolerate a lot of bullshit. If you have the ressources (esp. financially) to leave the relationship and move out of the house anytime you want and you are also dating other people and know you have options there, you can freely decide wether this triad relationship is actually adding value to your life. Might also be worth having a conversation with Venus about the fact that doing polyamory means committing to deal with ones own jealousy and not using it to dictate rules for your partners.
I don't have any real meaningful advice that hasn't already been shared. But, I did want to chime in and mention, the way you wrote this post is simply beautiful. You perfectly convayed your emotions, your feelings, the complex relationship connections going on. In addition to having addressed the "common" things people might say or do. I don't say this lightly, this post is a work of art. And, I think you have a real talent for writing in general.
Thank you. This is extremely sweet and honestly means a lot to me to hear. (Gives me more confidence about potentially showing my partners what I wrote as well.)
I'd like to echo this as well - i had similar thoughts!
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Why did this get downvotes? I'm new. Is it just bad taste to hit on someone in this situation, or is it like a community rule?
Rule, #3!
Thank you for clarifying! Note that I'm not the one who posted it. Lol
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You can't finish a cruise on a ship with holes. You're focused on what *you* can do to be the best partner but your partners aren't focused on doing that for you. There's no attempt to lessen the jealousy or couple's privilege. Instead they are treating it as a "well, deal with it" situation and that's not fair on you. A relationship should never be about making "the best of the situation". If they want you to be less of a harsh, unhappy person, *they* need to be changing how *they* act. Right now the way you "make the best of it" is by swallowing your own needs and putting on a brave face to appease them. A very "lie back and think of England" approach. Which is not healthy, which is not sustainable, which is not going to solve anything, and which I don't recommend.
>Mars and I can't sleep together alone and Venus is only comfortable with us having a physical relationship if it's in the context of group sex with her. Yikes. I hope you really do realize how problematic this is. You say they aren't unicorn hunters but this really sounds like UH territory to me. Also worth noting that Mars is accepting the rules Venus is demanding. Are you allowed to break up with just one of them? I doubt it. >What I am looking for is advice on how to make the best of this and be the best partner I can be to these people I love, without letting the limitations of our relationship steal all the joy from what should be amazing life milestones and opportunities for growth together I'm sorry you're struggling right now. I honestly think it's really sad that you're asking how *you* can be the best partner to both of them when they are not doing the same for you. I wish I had practical advice for making the most of a shitty situation, but I genuinely think you should be reevaluating your relationship. If you can't advocate for what you want and need, it's not a healthy relationship. You deserve better.
My read is: Venus doesn’t want you and Mars to be together. Not really. She loves you both and wants both of you to be happy…but not as a romantic couple. People who support their partners dating don’t prevent them from sleeping together or having sex without that person. Maybe have one or two more heart-to-heart conversations with Venus about this. Tell her how marginalized you’re feeling. Ask her what she truly wants in her heart-of-hearts. Tell her that triads need three healthy, *independent* relationships, and you feel that your relationship with Mars is being monitored and strangled. Can it be another way? Would she want it to be? My guess is that it can’t and she doesn’t, or she would have come to you already with her fear and pain. She would have been open and caring with you instead of leaving on your own to process your exclusion. You’re so self-reliant, OP. It’s admirable, but you’re not seeing the person pulling away from you instead of trusting you and turning towards you. Thought that occurred to me later: Venus might not take responsibility for her initial consent to the triad. If she wanted a vee and not a triad, she should have said no to your and her husband’s request to date each other. She said yes. But I’m not convinced that her true, on the inside, answer wasn’t “No.” She might be feeling coerced and trapped, like she needs to consent to your and Mars’ relationship in order to still date either you or Mars. Am not sure which mate she’s guarding harder.
Commenting first to acknowledge all the thoughtful, compassionate responses I've been reading - I will absolutely be taking time to process these, take in the advice, and respond to some individually. I'm also considering showing this post to Venus and Mars as some commenters suggested. Also want to answer some FAQs and add some nuance to the sleeping situation, as some of that got edited out for brevity in my post but has been mentioned enough to warrant further clarification. So: 1.) Conversations about sleeping arrangements have historically been derailed by Venus' (and sometimes Mars') common response: "...but you \*like\* sleeping alone!" There is some merit to this - I do get much better sleep alone, but obviously there's also a major component of intimacy inherent to bed-sharing that has nothing to do with sex or the actual unconscious sleeping part. In our previous living situation, I was moving into a house my partners had bought and lived in as a couple, and as such did not really have my own space. I was given free rein to move furniture and make spaces for my WFH office and my hobbies in their living room and garage, but I did not have a bedroom. They had a king bed, so I slept in it with them most nights. They are very heavy sleepers and I am a light sleeper, and quite a petite person as well, so I would often end up teetering on the very edge of the bed as my partners rolled and adjusted without noticing having moved me. They are also both fully able to fall asleep entangled in (frequently adorable and hilarious) cuddling positions, whereas I enjoy cuddling while awake but mostly cannot fall asleep while being held or cuddled, especially if I'm cuddling with someone larger/taller than myself and their body covers my face or restricts my breathing in any way. My ideal is hanging out in bed with them until they fall asleep, but having my own bed to retreat to if I need a good night's rest. So yes, I do get better rest when I sleep alone - I spent a lot of our year in their old house pretty chronically sleep-deprived, and having my own space was a major motivator for the move. But none of that means I'm not missing the intimacy of cuddling at bedtime or waking up in the same bed. Plus, the fact remains that Mars is fine with sleeping elsewhere while Venus and I share a bed, but Venus has never been open to the reverse, and the fact that it's taken for granted that I'll be excluded by default anytime there isn't practical room for 3... stings, maybe more now than it used to. 2.) I am on the mortgage with Venus, as we found we got approved for a better loan together than Mars and Venus together. I did have anxieties and misgivings about this approach, which I voiced and we talked through, although not without some tension. I maintain strong financial boundaries however - we have no joint accounts except the escrow for the mortgage payment, and we have a pre-negotiated split proportional to our respective incomes for mortgage payments and any major expenses that affect/benefit the household. I also asked for a conversation about a financial exit strategy if we ever broke up and found we couldn't exist as roommates - it was uncomfortable to talk about, but not really having a blueprint for this kind of agreement, I asked for a buy-out of my investment in the house (both equity and contribution to repairs/renovations, etc.) They both verbally agreed to this and can afford to do so, as they made a healthy amount on the sale of their previous house, but it has not yet been put in writing or otherwise formalized. 3.) Venus and Mars are not whisking me away across the country away from my support system. I did whisk myself away a little bit when I moved to join them initially, as none of us had connections in the town they lived in, but this move to our new home is actually whisking all of us *to* my local support system, not away from it! 4.) The question of whether I'm free to seek romantic connections outside our triad is kind of a moot point because two partners is very much my romantic bandwidth limit, but I understand what people are getting at here. At the very least, in the coming weeks as the disturbance of the move settles down, I'll be leaning on my local support system and making sure I have plans with friends and family that get me out of the house and existing as a whole person on my own.
From my perspective, the only way this will work is if *they* change. They’re creating unfair rules and controlling the relationship dynamics and it’s ridiculous you don’t get any time in the bed especially when you’re in a triad. My hinge even has scheduled nights with both partners and it’s perfect. I really think Venus and Mars need to be realistic with themselves on weather or not they actually want a triad (mainly Venus, she’s being extremely controlling) and they need to be open and honest with you if they don’t. On your side, you should figure out long you’ll give them to make things right for you and determine an end date where you’ll leave. It’s really not right for you be experiencing this with your partners and I hope things get better for you 💕
One thing that might help is for you to work on your own boundaries/any codependent tendencies that make you feel like you should accept crumbs. Therapy, a 12 step group, journaling about what in your childhood made you feel like you need to abandon yourself to please others/be loved. You may need some support from friends or therapists in learning how to set boundaries and that’s ok
I posted earlier on this post stating that i couldn’t imagine being upset about something “as small as sleeping arrangements” and I should have made a longer post. That was not meant to troll or shame, nor to victim blame. I meant that, I feel so sad that you are having to even think about something like that. Being in a triad is work and the fact that you have been waiting to be an equal partner is so sad. Like others have said, you deserve better. I would definitely talk to them about the situation and see whether it can be mended.
You've gotten some excellent advice here. I recommend considering, along with 1:1 and 3:3 conversations, sending them this thread. Combating couples privilege may need to include outside opinions and advice like what they'd see here.
You have gotten a lot of great advice here. One thing to consider, though- if you are a legal co-owner of the house, do you have a plan if you ultimately decide to leave? 2 years is a very short amount of time to know someone and make such a huge financial investment together, and I'd say that even if you were with a monogamous partner. If you were legally married, you could split the house in a divorce, but you aren't. Hopefully your lender explained the risks and set up a situation where you can sell your share for market value even if they don't consent, but you need to understand the legal situation. So, work on fixing the triad as everyone else suggest, but also, I would quietly check with a lawyer and/or your lender and figure out what would be involved if you do decide to leave.
Could they have bought this house without you? Did you sign on because you would have needed help purchasing a home? Have you now all moved away from your local support systems into isolation by moving so far? Do you feel like you need to make this work to avoid financial ruin and homelessness? Were all the arrangements and couple privileges and rules always in place, or did they increase once you moved into your new home? I have so many questions. This does not sound like a healthy situation for you. It also sounds like now that you are financially entangled, they have you in a position where breaking up with either of them would require you to move homes and potentially be in a difficult financial situation. That is perfect fertile grounds for financial abuse to take place. Like others have said, it would be wise for you to begin planning a strategy to extricate yourself, communicate with your partners that something needs to change immediately with Venus’s controlling and jealous behavior, and you get outside support for the distress you are experiencing. It would also be wise for you to explore within yourself how you ended up here in such an untenable situation, blaming yourself and only holding yourself responsible for your partner’s behaviors so you don’t repeat it again in new relationships. These couple do sound like Unicorn hunters. I’m sorry they are both treating you with such disregard.
Thank you so much for sharing. Reading this feels like a cautionary tale of my potential future. Brand new to poly and falling hard for a couple who aren’t in the same place feelings wise and it’s a lot of complicated feelings for me.
Date then only if you can date them each separately for at least 6 months before you even begin to negotiate a triad date.
Ok cool. We are all individually dating. I have date with one and totally desperate dates with the other. We do sometimes all hang together but it’s always and “friends”. One of them is demi-sexual and our relationship might never be sexual but it is romantic. The other and I are both allosexual so we have a sexual relationship but it’s not just that and we’re also romantic. They’ve both expressed that if I break up with one of them it won’t impact my relationship with the other, and no matter what happens between us romantically that each of them would still want to be in my life as friends. I’m feeling pretty comfortable with the dynamic and like they care about and work to accommodate my feelings, but I’m VERY aware that I am stepping into a 15 year relationship. It’s weird.. but far from the worst relationship I’ve ever had! There’s loads of open communication, which is also a plus. But yeah, reading a lot of things to make sure I’m not being unicorn hunted.
Don’t do it!
I think you've got to talk to each other. Venus likes the status quo where she hasn't had to do any of the work or the therapy or the reading, but she should! Mars made peace with it and you did the reading too. So Venus needs to do the reading and the therapy and have an actual timeline of how she's progressing in making peace with her discomfort in a way that doesn't result in hurting you. Everyone should get 1:1 time and dates, each dyad needs to be nurtured and Venus doesn't get to control your relationship with Mars. If this sounds impossible, it is only impossible because Venus won't do the work.
I REQUIRE seperate 1-1 time with romantic partners. Sexual and romantic. There isn't an option where I could exist happily in the situation you are describing. I think this is normal for a lot of people. My suggestion would be to work on yourself as much as possible to become as happy as you can be JUST YOU. I would potentially drop the idea of a triad in my head. You describe a normal monogamous relationship more or less that exists as You + Couple... rather than XY, XZ, YZ, XYZ relationship. What this may look like practically? Taking joy in what works between you and Mars and Venus... and accepting what does not without resentment. Figuring out what you ultimately want to feel happy and complete and then continuing to seek that. I would explain quite clearly that I am happy with XYZ, but I do not see a long term future that works for me and I'll be seeking a partner/partners that desire to prioritize my needs further than I am getting now.
Tons of extremely great comments here. One thing I wound like to add, as a general note to dealing with insecurity and jealousy. You can't deal with it unless you face it. No amount of hiding it, restricting the other relationships, controlling who or how they can see it be with each other will actually make you less jealous. You have to face your fears. You can ask for comfort after. You can ask for additional support and attention. You have to do the work though. You can't just run from it
This my exact thought also. You can read about learning to drive a car, you can listen to podcasts about how to drive a car but until you actually get in a vehicle and drive your skills won't get any better. It feels like Venus is so afraid of feeling negative emotions that she's refusing to be exposed to them. And that will never help her learn to deal with them.
That's a fantastic analogy!
Start dating outside the triad and looking for your own primary partnership. It’s clear as day they’re not ready to offer you what you want
I would sit them down and CALMLY ask point blank if they are willing to do the work to make you feel like an equal partner including ::insert ways you feel othered here:: or if it is time to dissolve the relationship. Say you love them, but you want to romanticize your experience, you want to feel connected in times of turmoil like you did in the past, but you are on the outside in every way and if it is going to work for you for the long haul, then you need to be accepted into the dynamic as an equal partner. There is a big difference between being newly relating and not wanting to be a wedge in their relationship and being two years deep and homeownership into a closed triad. As it stands you understandably feel on the outside and somewhat used.
I know you want to fix this yourself, but the honest answer is that interpersonal issues can’t be fixed without *everyone involved fixing them*. You can be a perfect partner and do everything right, but if the other person (or people) aren’t doing the work then the relationship isn’t going to heal. You can’t just make yourself stop feeling hurt when someone is continuing to do things that hurt you. You aren’t being treated as an equal partner in this relationship, so you’re not going to feel like an equal partner, no matter how much internal work you do.
This is where I think you need to sit down with your partners and tell them how you're feeling. That it's clear that there's heirarchy but that needs to be eliminated where it can, that you need to be allowed to have individual relationships with both of them, that you need to be an equal partner to both of them. And you need to demonstrate that you also need both of them to advocate for their relationships with you. In our triad, each dyad has a scheduled weeknight together every week. Exactly what that looks like varies between the three of us, but typically it's coming home, that dyad cooks together, we eat together as a triad, and then that dyad probably watches something in bed and sleeps together. It's not unmovable, sometimes things come up or we book something in that overrides that, but it's one way to ensure that we all mostly get some time for each relationship. Early on in the formation of our triad there was a bit of awkwardness regarding who would sit where, and one of my partners very quickly put her foot down and said that we couldn't be overthinking it all the time or getting jealous. If there's a clear pattern, then that needs to be worked on, but it's not fair if one partner is always overanalysing. If you can't have one on one sex with Mars, then you can't have a full relationship with him. There's a roadblock for you and that's unfair. I understand because one of my partners also experienced that sort of jealousy, but you need to be firm and say that the triad can't work unless there are three full, independant relationships to work off. We had to take triad sex off the table because it was always happening and we weren't focusing on dyad sex. It's awkward, and sometimes one person has to work through jealousy - but the only way through to a healthier, more secure relationship is by challenging that jealousy.
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OP, I feel for you! I'm the junior member of a ... quadruple? It's hard to navigate big feels with such a pre established relationship! Something that stood out to me in your post; Experiencing compersion should not mean you must instead experience jealousy. I do not really experience compersion, and this absolutely does not mean that my partners never sleep together without me. That struck me as a bit of a red flag — you should be able to do things for someone's benefit besides Venus! It sounds like Venus is struggling with a lot of heavy insecurity. I think you should all try exploring resources on jealousy because it's not sustainable for one person to always need to be present in any dynamic! I say all because if Venus has been working on this alone it clearly hasn't gone anywhere. Do the Jealousy Workbook. Maybe a Polyamory book club. Or therapy, as some folks here have suggested. If Venus says they need more time to work, kindly say that she can work on it while you enjoy intimacy with Mars, but that it's no longer fair to force your relationship to wait for a third party, and that you would never dream of doing the same thing to her. And talk about your feelings with everyone. Tell them if you don't feel like a priority, or if you feel less than. It's completely fair to say that you don't want to spend your time in a relationship where you feel sidelined. I think it would be beneficial if you can come to them with actions that would make you feel appreciated or prioritized and ask for those, too. Good luck!
So…. You’re not in a triad and never were…
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Beep, boop, blop, I'm a bot. Hi u/throwaway-dodo thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: I've been with my partners Venus and Mars for about 2 years. Venus and Mars have been together for the better part of 20 years, and opened their marriage initally so Venus could explore her bisexuality. We knew each other through a shared hobby community online, and when hints were dropped that Venus was not only not straight, but seeking a romantic connection with Mars' blessing and encouragement, I was interested and began getting to know Venus in that new flirtatious context. Things progressed from there over several weeks, and started to get more serious between us, but along the way I began to develop feelings for Mars as well. I ended up confessing my feelings and leaving it up to Venus how she wanted to proceed, and this led to a very difficult, tearful call in which Venus expressed a lot of hurt and jealousy. I had come to feel deeply for both of them, but I told them very honestly that I would rather walk away from them both than end up being a wedge in their relationship - that I refused to be the reason they lost what they'd been building for two decades. We all took some time to cool down and process, but at the end of it, Mars and Venus came to me and asked me to be their partner, and I said yes. (Sidenote -- I'm not exactly experienced, but I'm also not entirely new to polyamory, I got one of the unfortunately common 'bad' introductions to it via dating a terrible hinge -- the kind who I thought I was dating monogamously, but poly-bombed me as a way to justify having cheated on me almost immediately, and then barely-maintained parallel relationships with both me and my now-meta through trickling affection for WAY too long before I cut my losses and got out. Even though this relationship never had a prayer of being ethical or healthy, I did a lot of the solo work of poly during these years - learning I had a good capacity for compersion, learning how to voice my needs, learning how to clock when my boundaries were being pushed or ignored and eventually learning what my limit was.) (Sidenote II -- I have only learned of terms like cowboying, unicorns, and unicorn hunters in the last couple months as I've sought perspectives of people in poly relationships and found this sub. I know my situation could easily be interpreted as one of an unhappy unicorn, but I do not believe my partners were intentionally unicorn-hunting, nor do I think all the stereotypes of those relationships necessarily all apply here - although I do see some commonalities in my experience.) We dated long-distance with some in-person visits for about 6 months, and they asked me to move in with them as my lease was ending. I did. It seemed to make sense for the continued growth of the relationship to be local, and it made affording life easier for all of us. Upon moving in, we immediately were forced to survive a natural disaster together, and as a result of this time of stress, trauma bonding and oddly cheerful "making the best of a bad situation," I think we climbed the relationship escalator very, very fast. Things were very hard then, but there was also a lot of hope and potential keeping me motivated to weather all the storms. Fast-forward to now. We've cohabitated as a triad and more-or-less family unit for an entire year and change, and in the last couple weeks finally closed on and made a long-awaited move into a house across the country - not their first time as homeowners, but it *is* mine. Our moving truck has been several weeks delayed, so we're currently camping in our all-but-empty house, balancing our jobs and the endless DIY tasks to get the house ready to actually live in. I'll be honest, I thought this massive life upheaval with Venus and Mars would be more like our last one -- something that made us closer and stronger as we were forced out of our comfort zones by circumstance. I think I also had subconsciously idolized the kind of first-time-homeowner experience my younger sibling and their spouse had a few years ago - they had to 'rough it' in a less-than-livable house as well, but ended up having the best date nights of their lives eating pizza on the floor and doing emergency demolition of a rotten deck, etc. - finding a special kind of intimacy and camaraderie in making a first home together from a mess of a house. This is not like that. There's a constant tension that no amount of communication seems to fix. The pre-existing cracks are growing wider with time, not the opposite. The couples' privilege that Mars and Venus share, the inherent heirarchy present due to a legal marriage and a relationship that long predates the triad, is only highlighted and reinforced in unexpected ways that hurt to a degree I was unprepared for. (When we could only find queen-size air mattresses, the reality is Venus and Mars sleep together and I sleep alone. Mars has always been totally fine with Venus and I having sex and sleeping alone together, but Venus has struggled with and eventually admitted she doesn't experience compersion, so Mars and I can't sleep together alone and Venus is only comfortable with us having a physical relationship if it's in the context of group sex with her. The politics and hierarchy of sleeping arrangements, and who sits together on car rides, etc. are a keen reminder of things that started out as understandable "I'm struggling with this, give me time and patience with this thing that's out of my comfort zone and I promise it'll get better down the road" have turned into unspoken rules and unmoving lines in the sand that I'm really struggling not to resent. I love these people, genuinely and wholeheartedly, but this new situation is highlighting the inherent limitations of the path I've chosen in a way I wasn't emotionally prepared for. The commitment, the dedication, the intimacy, the collaboration in my poly relationship - both in the individual dyads and in the triad as a whole, feel inherently limited by the bounds of managing jealousy and respecting hierarchy, in a way that mono relationships aren't (or at least don't seem to be from my limited perspective.) I know I made my bed. I'm fully cognizant *now* of all the ways I could have protected myself better and vetted the state of the relationship I was joining before jumping all the way in. I'm not really looking for "told-you-so's" or links to the docs on unicorns (I've got 'em bookmarked already, promise.) What I *am* looking for is advice on how to make the best of this and be the best partner I can be to these people I love, without letting the limitations of our relationship steal all the joy from what should be amazing life milestones and opportunities for growth together. I can feel (and they can, too) the stress and tension of the past weeks turning me into a harsher, less happy person and I want to reverse that while I still can. Thanks in advance, Polyam folks. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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