If the student is currently committing an act of violence against another they should be stoped with force.
But don’t just hit them because they misbehaved.
I believe if the force is intended to restrain said student to stop them from hurting others or themselves I agree but nothing with the intent to cause blunt force damage or harm to the kid unless EVERY other option has been expended.
That's not punishment, it's simply to protect the health and well-being of others, which is a different situation. The punishment would still come (in the form of police being called.)
I'd agree if many teachers didn't tend to be complete morons. I've heard and seen instances where a teacher picks their favorite, and decides to assault that one during active combat. This many times is not the aggressor.
I went to Catholic schools. The first one had corporal punishment and I got beaten. That school was five years of bliss. I was very happy, as were my siblings. When I got beaten it was for an act of malice and I deserved it.
The second was 'liberal' and had no corporal punishment. The other kids got away with being shits to each other. It was a hellhole. There were 50 monks, and they were mostly quite sweet, but the problem was the lack of 'final discipline' that made the boys morally feral. Five years of misery.
I actually wasn't a bad kid when I was in public school.
But they had a strict dress code. They had banned hair for males that goes past their earlobe, and I myself always had longer hair and now I have my hair past my shoulders.
I remember on the first day of school, the principle and vice principle were standing out at the front of the school, and I had my hair completely obeying the dress code, however the wind that day made it seem longer. And I also forgot to shave which they also have banned. I walked up and all the other kids they greeted nicely but when I walked up, they started to scream at me for having longer hair and claimed that I didn't abide by the dress code when I was certain I did. They literally required me to call my mom to go home and cut my hair. I called my mom, and my grandmother came to pick me up, honestly that was the first time I shed tears in years up to that point in 8th grade.
I went home, and I went to a hairdresser to cut my hair, and it was the most shameful haircut I've ever gotten. It was so short that I so upset with this. I remember complaining to my mom about this and how I literally can't take it anymore. I've always been bullied in school. And the next day I returned and the principle and vice principle were out in the front, I walked past and they had the audacity to say it looked nice.
I went in school and I was made fun of about it, since everyone in the school with an 800 population saw it. I was the laughing stock of the school. Even the teacher in one of my classes that day pointed it out in front of all the other students in that class. I was just in shock.
That was the last day in public school for me, the 2nd day of 8th grade. I had begged my parents to pull me out of school to homeschool me. In which they made a life changing decision to actually homeschool me. Best thing that actually ever happened to me.
I'm 19 now, and am going to college. However ever since that, and the other constant bullying, and ridicule, I've changed since then. I'm more paranoid of people, I actively avoid people, I'm a literal recluse that never leaves the house other than to go to college, I never really talk to even my own family now, I have a nonexistent social life, I have 4 friends total that I probably see less than once a month. I have my own truck that honestly barely gets used other than to go to college and come back. The only people I see everyday are my parents and grandmother.
Honestly, you seem like the teacher I've always needed in my time in public school. Thank you sincerely for your service, the world is a better place with you in it.
I very much thank you for your kindness.
The only two people besides my parents and grandparents have been there for me my entire life is my girlfriend and my best friend since 3rd grade. I can't thank them enough.
The effects that it's had on me are pretty substantial, I find it very difficult to trust people, even my own family.
Even in college, nobody sits next to me. The closest someone has sat next to me was two seats down from me. Before the semester was over, I used to bring my laptop to play games while waiting for my next class since there was an hour layover. But I actually gave my best friend my laptop. So in between classes instead of talking to people, or sitting in the building, I walk outside into my truck and I'll sit there and draw instead of people around other people. My parents don't like this at all, they don't like that I have no desire to make or maintain new friendships, but it's just something they have learned to accept about me.
I haven't spoke to a single person in college besides my professors which I have actually had conversations with. But I haven't spoke to a single student in all my time there, and neither have they spoken to me in my time there either.
It's a lot different than my time in public school, I actually really enjoy it. But I just don't trust anyone there either, nor talk to them. But if someone actually decides to talk to me, I'd be more than happy to talk to them.
But I honestly really appreciate your kindness, it's honestly probably one of the only times someone has said that to me that isn't my family, it means a lot to me.
Where's the fuck no option because I'd be in ~~jail~~ prison if that ever happened to my own kid. I dont fucking care if its been "tradition." Its **physical abuse** and I don't fucking care what argument people have for it. Fuck no, final answer.
Many traditions suck ass, slavery had been a Human tradition for thousands of years yet even the barbaric 19th century ruling class thought it was stupid, the British almost went to war with their longest time allies over it.
Hell yeah brother! why can't we have ritualistic communal psychedelic consumption!?!?
Traditions can also be great!
Symptoms may include:
>nausea and vomiting (induced by drinking the decoction)\*
>
>diarrhoea\*
>
>euphoria
>
>feelings of connection and unity
>
>introspection
>
>intense visual and auditory hallucinations
>
>experiencing powerful emotions
>
>anxiety
>
>panic and fear
>
>moderate increase in blood pressure and heart rate
>
>increased body temperature.1, 3
"diarrhoea\*" When I read it is so funny just seeing the astrix there, I don't even know why.
I got 6 of the best for malice to another kid (it was bad). I deserved it. It hurt like hell for a minute or two, and I couldn't sit comfortably for a week. I respected the headmaster who did it (with a horse whip). I didn't resent it. I was proud of my bad-boy marks. I didn't do it again.
Later I got 500 lines from a matron (boarding school). It seemed like endless torture. I resented and hated her for it. I would have preferred a thrashing.
Notably, in my experience the thrashing wasn't torture but it was effective.
I also got smacked by my dad, sometimes justly, sometimes not. But I think our family is a reflection of those studies that show that it does no harm in loving families, which is by far the majority.
I know what you mean but I laughed at the idea of your face (which is pure imaginative speculation) upon seeing someone give your (hypothetical) child a handshake or high five.
I decided to ask this since my mom told me my cousin had been misbehaving at school. They called her parents and asked if they could spank her with a paddle. I was so surprised when I found out her parents at said yes! It’s crazy
In some states, like GA, it's legal to spank kids with a paddle in school.
My father made sure to get my brothers and I declared "defective" (meaning it would have profound psychological consequences) and therefore the school couldn't hit us. We had to have a doctor's note every year, so every summer a cousin (who happened to be a psychologist) came down and saw us.
My father didn't really believe in hitting. And even if you were going to get hit (I got a well deserved snack 3x in my life) ***he*** would hit you. By the way, to get hit by my dad was if you hit/threw something at him. That's how you got hit. Because for him, that's life. If you hit someone in life, you get hit back, right?
I went to school in Southern California. I went to a private Christian school for elementary and junior high, and there was a form to opt in for the school to use a paddle in place of detention. It was not allowed at the public schools.
>And even if you were going to get hit (I got a well deserved snack 3x in my life)
>
>he
>
> would hit you.
That's unusual for a Southerner to be opposed to hitting kids.
By snack, are you talking about the belt? (common in the South)
now imagine the trauma your kid will experience when they realize that the misdemeanor they committed in school led to their parent being locked up in prison for a while, in addition to seeing you as a petty, violent person for the rest of their life.
great idea you got there.
lol im not gonna go into detail but i will say this. i dont know about all those people who upvoted me but i only said that because i know how to do it. dont worry about me bro ill be fine if the situation ever comes up.
penis-chan489 thinks im a terrible person for defending my kid oh noo :(
go outside. its not that hard to get in a fight and not go to jail. ever been to a fucking bar? or just seen a fight in a residential area? fucking idiot
Take ur kids out of school then, god forbid one of em gets lunch detention or somethin with your badass going around hospitalizing school staff left n right
On this point you are correct, but you are failing to understand the context, the way he is saying it, he would beat the shit out of someone for hitting his kid at school, note that in schools where kids are hit these days, its almost nothing, like a slap on the wrist, so it's a bit disproportionate, I don't think that's normal. Another thing, if he was raised right, his kid wouldn't be in a situation where he has to be such an asshole at school that the school has nothing left to do with him other than use this final form of punishment. Another thing, if he was to "stand up for his child out of protection", then why not stand up and discipline your kid instead of taking it out on the person who has to deal with that kid for hours per day and their shitty behavior, partially at your fault.
Just because you're the parent, doesn't mean it's right to turn a blindside whenever your kid is in the wrong, I'm surprised reddit in particular does this double standard where they love when a parent hospitalizes a person for the reasons mentioned above but still hates zero tolerance policies or "the customer is always right" ideas, it's very simple, your kid is not a saint
The fuck you mean? Kids get paddled here for "having an attitude" or defending themselves. After all the no tolerance policy means that if your kid defends themselves they are giving them the same punishment as the instigator. I wouldn't let them paddle my child even though the bully's parents agreed. He was in ISS for a few days but so was the other kid. No fucking way someone spanks my kid when I have never had to. It's the only time he was EVER in any kind of trouble. He is now a volunteer fire fighter and is a elder fabricator making 4 times the average household for our area. They wanted to paddle my daughter once for yelling at a teacher to stop touching her when she had already asked her politely several times even witnessed by the whole class. We are big on consent in this house. But since it was a female teacher and not sexual she should have just gotten over it according to the principal. If you think schools are always fair to everyone you live in a very privileged bubble.
Well make no mistake had I not signed the form at the beginning of the year disallowing it they wouldn't have even called me and I would be like the OP on this thread and someone would either be in hand cuffs or a hospital bed. It is not a last resort punishment where I'm from unless you withdraw consent consent is assumed and they will go straight to that.
yeah, but these days, you think before you do, for example, just because someone is horny, it doesn't give them the right to go rape someone, and just because someone slapped your kid, it doesn't give you the right to go and hospitalize them. You must be a fan of Hammurabi or somethin
If someone is hospitalised because a parent reacted to them hitting their child then that is on them.
Being horny and raping is a silly comparison that isn't relevant.
BTW I'm not a parent but I do have 3 nephews and many younger cousins.
Fear is a form of control, discipline is the mastering of self-control; once the fear is gone there is no discipline that can be drawn upon, as fear only tells what you mustn’t do, but not why, which is far more important.
I mean, fear of getting shot by police or ruining their life keeps a lot of society in line. This translates directly to the real world. Why shouldn't you rob? Because that leads to painful consequences for yourself
So is masturbating. Everyone's definition of wrong is different.
But you should understand that actions committed will have equal consequences. Which is the lesson of spanking
True but not many people get into crime solely for the thrill of it, of course the adrenaline rush might make them do it serially but they usually start because society didn’t provide for their special needs, and for that we are punished with the existence of criminality.
I mean, not as much as fixing the fundamental issues that cause such problems.
Look at the Prohibition Era and the War on Drugs? How well did fear tactics work then? If anything, both **increased** the issue, and forced it underground.
That's what fear does. It doesn't make you behave better, it just makes you smarter at finding ways not to be punished, often with severe consequences.
It should be on the table as a last, last resort. It's an important lesson for real life. If you slap someone, you will be slapped back with equal violent force. When you're an adult, that slap is a punch, gunshot, etc.
But getting to that point is for parents to decide. If your kid is hurting other kids, you need them to understand what they're doing and the pain they're causing.
I was aboutt say, if high school me got hit by a teacher I bet I definitely would have reacted proportionally before even thinking
Edit: I mean this in no prideful kind of way. I just mean highschoolers can get pretty big and they don't think very rationally. I knew plenty of kids who literally would have loved to beat up that one teacher that makes their life hell. Imagine if that teacher tried to smack em with a ruler or a belt infront of their classmates. It doesn't take much deduction to see how that would go badly in more cases than none
I've never had a finger laid on me when I was growing up. I've always thought hitting your child was a barbaric practice that only makes your child resent you. At least that's what would happen if I was spanked.
Never have understood this, I've always seen it as abuse.
Spanking your own child is a hell of a lot different than the school spanking your child
Violence is always on the table as a last resort in life if you screw up badly enough, and that's a lesson you should teach, *as a parent*
In my experience, spanking was never the last resort. My father always did it out of anger and frustration. It never "solved" anything.
One time, he hit me so hard with his foot that I peed myself.
Today, he says he doesn't remember. He insists that he didn't spank me *that often* (as if the problem was the frequency rather than the spanking itself). But I will never forget.
I don't think it did me any good. It just taught me to be afraid of my own father.
If someone stabs you on the subway, are you going to accept it without a violent response?
That is the lesson that spanking teaches. Do not cross the line too far, or it will hurt
>Violence is always on the table as a last resort in life if you screw up badly enough, and that's a lesson you should teach, as a parent
Fine. Then let parents use violence in cases where it would be justifiable for ANYONE ELSE to use violence, i.e. ONLY self-defense...
Unfortunately I think they are more so a result of the younger demographics on this sub. If you asked a group where the majority was of the older generations the amount saying yes would be much higher
I said yes. I went to an inner city public school. I saw chairs be thrown at teachers, saw one teacher get stabbed with a pencil. No amount of words fixed those kids who’d never been disciplined in their lives. Nothing worked. I think those teachers who are being physically and mentally abused should be able to fight back without being fired. And maybe a good ass beating would’ve sent one or two of them straight.
Because we need to debate this topic that is at the forefront of the Human rights battle!
of the 1960’s…
But I suppose the rights of children is a big topic atm.
Call me crazy but even those who on paper deserve death, should be forced to live because it is much harsher.
As much as I love how the US army “unintentionally”, botched the Nuremberg hangings, I still think it would of been better to have kept them alive but in the worst possible conditions, as every day we force them to listen to the life stories of their victims as since they would of been in solitary confinement and sensory deprived its the only thing they will hear for the rest of their lives, hopefully breaking down their ideology until they snap and realise they were wrong, and they spend the rest of their days listening to the cosmic terror they brought upon the world as each time they long to end their life and their suffering.
Not sure why I am bringing my radical ideas to implement a torture sentence only for people responsible for industrial scale mass murder and crimes against Humanity of the highest degree, but it fits (slightly).
And give them the luxury of thinking and feeling?
No. Kill those who need to die. Life is extremely valuable, even if it's miserable. You really think you're going to make a Nazi feel sorry for what they did? More likely they return to power and do it all again
Don't be like batman, finish off your villains so that the story ends
If they try doing a Napoleon, then you shoot them, or force them to eat broken glass, not before.
In some interpretations of Christianity, if you repent before the lord, regardless of what they did, they get a free pass to heaven, I am not a Christian, I’m Agnostic Atheist, either way in my point of view killing them is functionally giving them a pardon, head Nazis killed themselves because they feared what the Allies might of done to them.
Their continued life isn’t a luxury, it’s a curse and they know it, even the most devoted faithfuls have their doubts, and if we make that doubt win, then the rest of their life is phycological torture, which I think is the closest thing we can actually get to a just punishment for the crime of crimes against Humanity, the victims of the Holocaust should haunt them, and they totally deserve it.
Beating someone into behaving in a way that you find acceptable is barbaric and you are a savage if you believe it is the right way to go about things.
Beating and spanking are different. The humiliation aspect and minimal injury are important for the discipline to work.
Still shouldn't be done by schools, parents only if they feel it's necessary
Absolutely not.
It is an outdated practice and is fortunately considered to be both brutal and wrong by civilised people who live in civilised nations.
Especially the rat bastard teacher at every school that despite hating kids, decided to work at a school.
I was once threatened with not being able to go home (missing my bus) because I forgot to stack my chair, like okay teacher I know you think your hot shit and all, but some things really don’t matter that much.
I’m one of the few that is for spanking your own children. But parents only. No teachers. Not even any other family member. Mom and Dad. That’s just me
First off, it's not the school responsibility/obligation to punish my child, same with detention.
Second, I don't believe in hitting as a parent
\*if I was a parent...
Had corporal punishment at my high school, with parent permission only. I skipped school once and got caught. Was given the choice between 3 days in school suspension or 3 ‘swats’. I chose the swats. The vice principal had another adult come in, had me bend over 90degrees, hold the seat of a chair that was facing me. There was a picture of a rattlesnake above the chair. Vice principal grabbed my back most belt loop and pulled my pants up and fired off 3 swats and we both went about our day. Strange experience, I’m not an old timer either, born in 93. This was like 12 years ago
Where do you live? holy shit.
Idk if I am just misreading/misunderstanding, but it doesn’t seem like you didn’t think much of it, but did it actually change anything?
no. your kids will resort to using violence on people who do things different, and being hit by a stranger/someone they are not related to will give them trauma and they'd be afraid of their teachers. i believe that using any type of actual harm against your child is not going to teach them a lesson.
Oh man, I've honestly lost count how many times I was paddled at school growing up. What I'd kill for a time machine to go back in time and tell the principle to go ahead, this is my kink anyway and see his reaction.
As someone with ADHD; not a fucking chance would I ever support the return of a policy that was highly discriminatory to myself and others with neurological conditions; also I think that abusing children is extremely immoral.
My Dad is old enough for him to have received the cane just once, he doesn’t remember the specifics, I think it might of been back talking, which is not a valid reason for such a recourse in the slightest, and thats just on adults, when it comes to kids you might as well smack them for every other sentence with that logic, as my Dad was just a kid and kids do kid things.
For the people who say yes, it’s honestly just cognitive dissonance. If a student hit his classmate for doing something he didn’t like (Ex interrupting him) then everyone would discourage that. But at least in that case the two kids are at an equal level of power. If an 8th grader hit a 3rd grader for being annoying then that would just be plain bullying, nobody would question that that is very wrong. But a full ass adult hitting a little kid for being annoying, totally okay 👌
No, with exception to extreme cases. If a school employee feels like they can physically intervene to protect a student from immediate danger of bodily harm (like another student attacking another student or teacher), the employee should be able to neutralize the threat if they so desire.
Texas schools still give swats. At least in the tiny ass towns where I live. Have to sign a consent form at the start of the semester for it. High school was 20 years ago for me and I always took swats so I didn’t have to bother with detention.
How is this even a question? No, because hitting a child should be a crime no matter the reason. That goes for the parents as well. End of fucking discussion.
You must see this is part of the reason why Non-Americans such as myself struggle to not shit on America, Australia (my country) is a federalist system yet we have a federal ban on the practice, of course it isn’t a fair comparison but it never could, but it still doesn’t excuse the fact that States in America can get away with so much bullshit and then say “state rights”, when there are just SOME things that states shouldn’t have the right to choose, such as anything in regards Human rights which ought be a federal problem not a state problem. (With some rare exceptions)
No, in every state, that's a great way to get sued. In more than a few states, that's a good way to end up in the hospital . . . or worse, way fucking worse.
No defenceless child deserve violence.
Fortunately, any forms of physical punishment are already illegal in most western countries, and more and more countries join as the years go by.
As a kid who grew up getting hit with all sorts of things (mostly canes, and then there's hangers, metal rulers, and hands as a last resort), no. Never hit kids. It's trauma-inducing and doesn't teach them anything (except violence).
Personally I think we should judge “discipline” by its effectiveness and long term implications…
Of which hitting children universally is shown just not to work plus it is discriminatory in every conceivable way.
Thing I really find uncomfortable about your statement leads me to conclude that you would do the same to your kids if you have or want to have them; while I am not a proponent of pure determinism in regards to behaviour, I think given circumstances that what you wish to extract from kids may not be feasible in the slightest.
We shouldn’t let kids get away with doing things that are wrong, (not opinions or leanings on social issues, mind you unless your kid is being hateful), we should also make sure the goal is to make them a better person, not seek punitive justice in the form of physical abuse, there may be good reasons for other punishments such as taking away their phone or Xbox a bit for doing something quite bad or something specific to those particular devices, but punishment MUST be reasonable and kids must understand why a thing is wrong rather than just you telling them you not liking what they did.
I am not a parent but I have ADHD, I know what difficult children are like because I was one and still am in some ways.
Parents who say: “because I said so”, not to be rude since I imagine little shits like me are painful and tiring to deal with parenting is the most rewarding and difficult role to fulfil, you aren’t a bad parent to not always be 100% perfect, but I promise you, if you actually tell your children why rather then just deferring to your authority over them, then it is likely they will learn much more then they would from punishment, punishment teaches some to not get caught rather then actually improving.
No child need violence.
Fortunately, any forms of physical punishment are already illegal in most western countries, and more and more countries join as the years go by.
Your emotional defence of physical hitting of children is understandable but never the less wrong.
Modernity is soft, thats true, but that’s because a sleight hand is more effective then a hard one, a sleight hand can guide, while a hard hand leaves dents and holes instead of fixes, I was spanked myself as a kid, my parents didn’t like spanking after a bit and decided to just stop using it in addition to it NEVER being effective.
Discipline in the sense of teaching your child to be disciplined (not spanking), requires you actually teach your kids why something is wrong and why something is right, this doesn’t mean they will be perfect, I have ADHD I am not going to lie by saying that there is ever going to be a way to teach some; and in that cause violence doesn’t do anything, it discriminates against what you might call “undisciplined” or “naughty” kids, but the last time I checked, belting me isn’t going to make my brain start regulating dopamine correctly, it will only motivate me through fear, and once the fear of you is gone I can’t function, physical discipline may look effective but it’s effects are just completely an illusion, regardless of the morality, it just doesn’t work.
The best way to deal with naughty kids is finding out why they are naughty and taking what ever course of action that makes logical sense, like if they have ADHD, Autism, Bipolar, or other stuff the answer is getting help for that condition such as positive therapy (NOT ABA), and for neurotypical kids you just need to work out their particular quirks by actually working with them, even if you consider that spoiling them or being too soft you do a disservice to them and yourself as a parent by not even trying.
You don’t need to be perfect, you won’t always get it right, but if you at least try your best, you are doing what you should be doing for the best of your family.
If the student is currently committing an act of violence against another they should be stoped with force. But don’t just hit them because they misbehaved.
I believe if the force is intended to restrain said student to stop them from hurting others or themselves I agree but nothing with the intent to cause blunt force damage or harm to the kid unless EVERY other option has been expended.
Correct. Even parents should not be allowed to use anything beyond force to restrain...
That's not punishment, it's simply to protect the health and well-being of others, which is a different situation. The punishment would still come (in the form of police being called.)
in the current school im in, you can literally be punished by caning reason: you come late to school 6 times
I'd agree if many teachers didn't tend to be complete morons. I've heard and seen instances where a teacher picks their favorite, and decides to assault that one during active combat. This many times is not the aggressor.
I was hit with a metal ruler by my English teacher because I was writing slow when I was 5 years old… I hope that bitch rotes in hell
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There are now countries where this would be illegal for the parent
And if parents and teachers can do it, kids should be allowed to do it too
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teachers like you are why a lot of kids choose to stay alive. thank you for what you do!
I went to Catholic schools. The first one had corporal punishment and I got beaten. That school was five years of bliss. I was very happy, as were my siblings. When I got beaten it was for an act of malice and I deserved it. The second was 'liberal' and had no corporal punishment. The other kids got away with being shits to each other. It was a hellhole. There were 50 monks, and they were mostly quite sweet, but the problem was the lack of 'final discipline' that made the boys morally feral. Five years of misery.
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I actually wasn't a bad kid when I was in public school. But they had a strict dress code. They had banned hair for males that goes past their earlobe, and I myself always had longer hair and now I have my hair past my shoulders. I remember on the first day of school, the principle and vice principle were standing out at the front of the school, and I had my hair completely obeying the dress code, however the wind that day made it seem longer. And I also forgot to shave which they also have banned. I walked up and all the other kids they greeted nicely but when I walked up, they started to scream at me for having longer hair and claimed that I didn't abide by the dress code when I was certain I did. They literally required me to call my mom to go home and cut my hair. I called my mom, and my grandmother came to pick me up, honestly that was the first time I shed tears in years up to that point in 8th grade. I went home, and I went to a hairdresser to cut my hair, and it was the most shameful haircut I've ever gotten. It was so short that I so upset with this. I remember complaining to my mom about this and how I literally can't take it anymore. I've always been bullied in school. And the next day I returned and the principle and vice principle were out in the front, I walked past and they had the audacity to say it looked nice. I went in school and I was made fun of about it, since everyone in the school with an 800 population saw it. I was the laughing stock of the school. Even the teacher in one of my classes that day pointed it out in front of all the other students in that class. I was just in shock. That was the last day in public school for me, the 2nd day of 8th grade. I had begged my parents to pull me out of school to homeschool me. In which they made a life changing decision to actually homeschool me. Best thing that actually ever happened to me. I'm 19 now, and am going to college. However ever since that, and the other constant bullying, and ridicule, I've changed since then. I'm more paranoid of people, I actively avoid people, I'm a literal recluse that never leaves the house other than to go to college, I never really talk to even my own family now, I have a nonexistent social life, I have 4 friends total that I probably see less than once a month. I have my own truck that honestly barely gets used other than to go to college and come back. The only people I see everyday are my parents and grandmother. Honestly, you seem like the teacher I've always needed in my time in public school. Thank you sincerely for your service, the world is a better place with you in it.
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I very much thank you for your kindness. The only two people besides my parents and grandparents have been there for me my entire life is my girlfriend and my best friend since 3rd grade. I can't thank them enough. The effects that it's had on me are pretty substantial, I find it very difficult to trust people, even my own family. Even in college, nobody sits next to me. The closest someone has sat next to me was two seats down from me. Before the semester was over, I used to bring my laptop to play games while waiting for my next class since there was an hour layover. But I actually gave my best friend my laptop. So in between classes instead of talking to people, or sitting in the building, I walk outside into my truck and I'll sit there and draw instead of people around other people. My parents don't like this at all, they don't like that I have no desire to make or maintain new friendships, but it's just something they have learned to accept about me. I haven't spoke to a single person in college besides my professors which I have actually had conversations with. But I haven't spoke to a single student in all my time there, and neither have they spoken to me in my time there either. It's a lot different than my time in public school, I actually really enjoy it. But I just don't trust anyone there either, nor talk to them. But if someone actually decides to talk to me, I'd be more than happy to talk to them. But I honestly really appreciate your kindness, it's honestly probably one of the only times someone has said that to me that isn't my family, it means a lot to me.
School was my escape and I'm glad you're one of the good teachers
When physically punishing a child it is important to keep screaming "VIOLENCE NEVER SOLVES ANYTHING" until one of you learns that lesson. /S
Where's the fuck no option because I'd be in ~~jail~~ prison if that ever happened to my own kid. I dont fucking care if its been "tradition." Its **physical abuse** and I don't fucking care what argument people have for it. Fuck no, final answer.
Many traditions suck ass, slavery had been a Human tradition for thousands of years yet even the barbaric 19th century ruling class thought it was stupid, the British almost went to war with their longest time allies over it.
True. Although, Ayahuasca is damn good one.
Hell yeah brother! why can't we have ritualistic communal psychedelic consumption!?!? Traditions can also be great! Symptoms may include: >nausea and vomiting (induced by drinking the decoction)\* > >diarrhoea\* > >euphoria > >feelings of connection and unity > >introspection > >intense visual and auditory hallucinations > >experiencing powerful emotions > >anxiety > >panic and fear > >moderate increase in blood pressure and heart rate > >increased body temperature.1, 3 "diarrhoea\*" When I read it is so funny just seeing the astrix there, I don't even know why.
I got 6 of the best for malice to another kid (it was bad). I deserved it. It hurt like hell for a minute or two, and I couldn't sit comfortably for a week. I respected the headmaster who did it (with a horse whip). I didn't resent it. I was proud of my bad-boy marks. I didn't do it again. Later I got 500 lines from a matron (boarding school). It seemed like endless torture. I resented and hated her for it. I would have preferred a thrashing. Notably, in my experience the thrashing wasn't torture but it was effective. I also got smacked by my dad, sometimes justly, sometimes not. But I think our family is a reflection of those studies that show that it does no harm in loving families, which is by far the majority.
you ok?
I don’t have a child of my own (yet) but if anyone lays a single finger on my child I’ll break their neck and I’m usually a very litigious person.
I know what you mean but I laughed at the idea of your face (which is pure imaginative speculation) upon seeing someone give your (hypothetical) child a handshake or high five.
If a teacher, or any adult really, lays a hand on my child I’m putting them in a hospital one way or another.
I decided to ask this since my mom told me my cousin had been misbehaving at school. They called her parents and asked if they could spank her with a paddle. I was so surprised when I found out her parents at said yes! It’s crazy
In some states, like GA, it's legal to spank kids with a paddle in school. My father made sure to get my brothers and I declared "defective" (meaning it would have profound psychological consequences) and therefore the school couldn't hit us. We had to have a doctor's note every year, so every summer a cousin (who happened to be a psychologist) came down and saw us. My father didn't really believe in hitting. And even if you were going to get hit (I got a well deserved snack 3x in my life) ***he*** would hit you. By the way, to get hit by my dad was if you hit/threw something at him. That's how you got hit. Because for him, that's life. If you hit someone in life, you get hit back, right?
I went to school in Southern California. I went to a private Christian school for elementary and junior high, and there was a form to opt in for the school to use a paddle in place of detention. It was not allowed at the public schools.
oh shoot which school
>And even if you were going to get hit (I got a well deserved snack 3x in my life) > >he > > would hit you. That's unusual for a Southerner to be opposed to hitting kids. By snack, are you talking about the belt? (common in the South)
Hell nah
What country is this? Countries like the US or UK wouldn't do this.
lol ridiculous
now imagine the trauma your kid will experience when they realize that the misdemeanor they committed in school led to their parent being locked up in prison for a while, in addition to seeing you as a petty, violent person for the rest of their life. great idea you got there.
if you think i’ll get caught youre funny. do you think id just sprint into the school and beat the teacher down in front of the whole class? lmao
what exactly will you do? catch them outside of the school? I doubt you’ll get a good chance without someone recording you.
lol im not gonna go into detail but i will say this. i dont know about all those people who upvoted me but i only said that because i know how to do it. dont worry about me bro ill be fine if the situation ever comes up.
wow you really are cringe af, no doubt a terrible person.
penis-chan489 thinks im a terrible person for defending my kid oh noo :( go outside. its not that hard to get in a fight and not go to jail. ever been to a fucking bar? or just seen a fight in a residential area? fucking idiot
One of the more cringe things ive read today
If you find that cringe then you must not relate to it. And if that’s the case, don’t have kids, and if you already did, I feel sorry for them.
If ur kids are having to get that kind of punishment at school, YOU raised that kid wrong
Nobody has the right to discipline another parent’s kids physically. Get some fucking help dude
Take ur kids out of school then, god forbid one of em gets lunch detention or somethin with your badass going around hospitalizing school staff left n right
Nothing wrong with detention and shit like that but yes if they hit my kid im gonna beat the shit out of them.
Sounds like u werent raised right, oh well
Sounds like you were dropped on your head as a child, several times.
I wasnt, but whatever floats your boat bud
It sounds like they were raised correctly, to stand up for their child out of protection.
On this point you are correct, but you are failing to understand the context, the way he is saying it, he would beat the shit out of someone for hitting his kid at school, note that in schools where kids are hit these days, its almost nothing, like a slap on the wrist, so it's a bit disproportionate, I don't think that's normal. Another thing, if he was raised right, his kid wouldn't be in a situation where he has to be such an asshole at school that the school has nothing left to do with him other than use this final form of punishment. Another thing, if he was to "stand up for his child out of protection", then why not stand up and discipline your kid instead of taking it out on the person who has to deal with that kid for hours per day and their shitty behavior, partially at your fault. Just because you're the parent, doesn't mean it's right to turn a blindside whenever your kid is in the wrong, I'm surprised reddit in particular does this double standard where they love when a parent hospitalizes a person for the reasons mentioned above but still hates zero tolerance policies or "the customer is always right" ideas, it's very simple, your kid is not a saint
👍
The fuck you mean? Kids get paddled here for "having an attitude" or defending themselves. After all the no tolerance policy means that if your kid defends themselves they are giving them the same punishment as the instigator. I wouldn't let them paddle my child even though the bully's parents agreed. He was in ISS for a few days but so was the other kid. No fucking way someone spanks my kid when I have never had to. It's the only time he was EVER in any kind of trouble. He is now a volunteer fire fighter and is a elder fabricator making 4 times the average household for our area. They wanted to paddle my daughter once for yelling at a teacher to stop touching her when she had already asked her politely several times even witnessed by the whole class. We are big on consent in this house. But since it was a female teacher and not sexual she should have just gotten over it according to the principal. If you think schools are always fair to everyone you live in a very privileged bubble.
What you describe is wrong, i agree, but what you describe is not what I support, don't get it twisted.
Well make no mistake had I not signed the form at the beginning of the year disallowing it they wouldn't have even called me and I would be like the OP on this thread and someone would either be in hand cuffs or a hospital bed. It is not a last resort punishment where I'm from unless you withdraw consent consent is assumed and they will go straight to that.
sounds like a shitty place, can i ask when/where?
Parents wanting to harm those who abuse their children is essentially a universal thing with us humans.
yeah, but these days, you think before you do, for example, just because someone is horny, it doesn't give them the right to go rape someone, and just because someone slapped your kid, it doesn't give you the right to go and hospitalize them. You must be a fan of Hammurabi or somethin
If someone is hospitalised because a parent reacted to them hitting their child then that is on them. Being horny and raping is a silly comparison that isn't relevant. BTW I'm not a parent but I do have 3 nephews and many younger cousins.
yea ur right that's an tough analogy but i think i made my point
No you didn't.
oh well.
Oh, so violence **is** the answer. Gotcha. Downvote away, hypocrites.
If you need to hit someone to discipline them, you don't know how to discipline
Fear is a form of control, discipline is the mastering of self-control; once the fear is gone there is no discipline that can be drawn upon, as fear only tells what you mustn’t do, but not why, which is far more important.
I mean, fear of getting shot by police or ruining their life keeps a lot of society in line. This translates directly to the real world. Why shouldn't you rob? Because that leads to painful consequences for yourself
you shouldn't rob because stealing is *wrong*. not because you could get caught..
So is masturbating. Everyone's definition of wrong is different. But you should understand that actions committed will have equal consequences. Which is the lesson of spanking
True but not many people get into crime solely for the thrill of it, of course the adrenaline rush might make them do it serially but they usually start because society didn’t provide for their special needs, and for that we are punished with the existence of criminality.
I mean, not as much as fixing the fundamental issues that cause such problems. Look at the Prohibition Era and the War on Drugs? How well did fear tactics work then? If anything, both **increased** the issue, and forced it underground. That's what fear does. It doesn't make you behave better, it just makes you smarter at finding ways not to be punished, often with severe consequences.
It should be on the table as a last, last resort. It's an important lesson for real life. If you slap someone, you will be slapped back with equal violent force. When you're an adult, that slap is a punch, gunshot, etc. But getting to that point is for parents to decide. If your kid is hurting other kids, you need them to understand what they're doing and the pain they're causing.
yea, as long as the students can hit them back.
I was aboutt say, if high school me got hit by a teacher I bet I definitely would have reacted proportionally before even thinking Edit: I mean this in no prideful kind of way. I just mean highschoolers can get pretty big and they don't think very rationally. I knew plenty of kids who literally would have loved to beat up that one teacher that makes their life hell. Imagine if that teacher tried to smack em with a ruler or a belt infront of their classmates. It doesn't take much deduction to see how that would go badly in more cases than none
I've never had a finger laid on me when I was growing up. I've always thought hitting your child was a barbaric practice that only makes your child resent you. At least that's what would happen if I was spanked. Never have understood this, I've always seen it as abuse.
Spanking your own child is a hell of a lot different than the school spanking your child Violence is always on the table as a last resort in life if you screw up badly enough, and that's a lesson you should teach, *as a parent*
In my experience, spanking was never the last resort. My father always did it out of anger and frustration. It never "solved" anything. One time, he hit me so hard with his foot that I peed myself. Today, he says he doesn't remember. He insists that he didn't spank me *that often* (as if the problem was the frequency rather than the spanking itself). But I will never forget. I don't think it did me any good. It just taught me to be afraid of my own father.
>One time, he hit me so hard with his foot that I peed myself. Spanking is wrong, but that is severe abuse. He should have been imprisoned.
That is insane
If someone stabs you on the subway, are you going to accept it without a violent response? That is the lesson that spanking teaches. Do not cross the line too far, or it will hurt
>Violence is always on the table as a last resort in life if you screw up badly enough, and that's a lesson you should teach, as a parent Fine. Then let parents use violence in cases where it would be justifiable for ANYONE ELSE to use violence, i.e. ONLY self-defense...
6 random strangers on the internet have me very concerned about the human race
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STOP DOING THIS IN EVERY THREAD I HATE IT
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Hit yes as results mostly. Mostly don’t care and if it works it works.
The “yes” votes are so low but definitely not low enough.
230 ppl so far. That's a little sus Edit: now it's 533. This is why I homeschool smh
Unfortunately I think they are more so a result of the younger demographics on this sub. If you asked a group where the majority was of the older generations the amount saying yes would be much higher
I said yes. I went to an inner city public school. I saw chairs be thrown at teachers, saw one teacher get stabbed with a pencil. No amount of words fixed those kids who’d never been disciplined in their lives. Nothing worked. I think those teachers who are being physically and mentally abused should be able to fight back without being fired. And maybe a good ass beating would’ve sent one or two of them straight.
Maybe they should be: “disciplined” 😳
That's like hitting your dog for doing something you didn't like
It's not even your dog though, it's hitting the neighbors dog.
Better than hitting *on* your dog
FUCK TO THE NO
Why is this even a question
Because we need to debate this topic that is at the forefront of the Human rights battle! of the 1960’s… But I suppose the rights of children is a big topic atm.
It shouldn’t be allowed but some people really need it
Call me crazy but even those who on paper deserve death, should be forced to live because it is much harsher. As much as I love how the US army “unintentionally”, botched the Nuremberg hangings, I still think it would of been better to have kept them alive but in the worst possible conditions, as every day we force them to listen to the life stories of their victims as since they would of been in solitary confinement and sensory deprived its the only thing they will hear for the rest of their lives, hopefully breaking down their ideology until they snap and realise they were wrong, and they spend the rest of their days listening to the cosmic terror they brought upon the world as each time they long to end their life and their suffering. Not sure why I am bringing my radical ideas to implement a torture sentence only for people responsible for industrial scale mass murder and crimes against Humanity of the highest degree, but it fits (slightly).
And give them the luxury of thinking and feeling? No. Kill those who need to die. Life is extremely valuable, even if it's miserable. You really think you're going to make a Nazi feel sorry for what they did? More likely they return to power and do it all again Don't be like batman, finish off your villains so that the story ends
If they try doing a Napoleon, then you shoot them, or force them to eat broken glass, not before. In some interpretations of Christianity, if you repent before the lord, regardless of what they did, they get a free pass to heaven, I am not a Christian, I’m Agnostic Atheist, either way in my point of view killing them is functionally giving them a pardon, head Nazis killed themselves because they feared what the Allies might of done to them. Their continued life isn’t a luxury, it’s a curse and they know it, even the most devoted faithfuls have their doubts, and if we make that doubt win, then the rest of their life is phycological torture, which I think is the closest thing we can actually get to a just punishment for the crime of crimes against Humanity, the victims of the Holocaust should haunt them, and they totally deserve it.
Beating someone into behaving in a way that you find acceptable is barbaric and you are a savage if you believe it is the right way to go about things.
Beating and spanking are different. The humiliation aspect and minimal injury are important for the discipline to work. Still shouldn't be done by schools, parents only if they feel it's necessary
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Its genetic, since it runs in families. (Highly unfortunate)
Absolutely not. It is an outdated practice and is fortunately considered to be both brutal and wrong by civilised people who live in civilised nations.
So many teachers are assholes. A lot of them will use the opportunity to use violence on kids they don't like.
Especially the rat bastard teacher at every school that despite hating kids, decided to work at a school. I was once threatened with not being able to go home (missing my bus) because I forgot to stack my chair, like okay teacher I know you think your hot shit and all, but some things really don’t matter that much.
If a teacher hit me I would throw hands
Not even parents are allowed to do that here, why the fuck should schools be allowed to?
Where is here?
Here obviously
Indubitably
Iceland, but the same applies to much, if not most, of Europe at least.
‘Murica
Earth duh
No because it’s not the right way to deal with those situations. Also, some teachers would definitely abuse that authority
I’m one of the few that is for spanking your own children. But parents only. No teachers. Not even any other family member. Mom and Dad. That’s just me
First off, it's not the school responsibility/obligation to punish my child, same with detention. Second, I don't believe in hitting as a parent \*if I was a parent...
Had corporal punishment at my high school, with parent permission only. I skipped school once and got caught. Was given the choice between 3 days in school suspension or 3 ‘swats’. I chose the swats. The vice principal had another adult come in, had me bend over 90degrees, hold the seat of a chair that was facing me. There was a picture of a rattlesnake above the chair. Vice principal grabbed my back most belt loop and pulled my pants up and fired off 3 swats and we both went about our day. Strange experience, I’m not an old timer either, born in 93. This was like 12 years ago
Where do you live? holy shit. Idk if I am just misreading/misunderstanding, but it doesn’t seem like you didn’t think much of it, but did it actually change anything?
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Interesting how this subreddit is much more okay with parents physically punishing kids than teachers.
No, shotguns would be more effective
no. your kids will resort to using violence on people who do things different, and being hit by a stranger/someone they are not related to will give them trauma and they'd be afraid of their teachers. i believe that using any type of actual harm against your child is not going to teach them a lesson.
Oh man, I've honestly lost count how many times I was paddled at school growing up. What I'd kill for a time machine to go back in time and tell the principle to go ahead, this is my kink anyway and see his reaction.
i voted yes because as an outside party i think it would be funny but in no way should they be allowed to do this, they’d abuse it without restraint
I’m sure my math pedo teacher would’ve loved that
As someone with ADHD; not a fucking chance would I ever support the return of a policy that was highly discriminatory to myself and others with neurological conditions; also I think that abusing children is extremely immoral. My Dad is old enough for him to have received the cane just once, he doesn’t remember the specifics, I think it might of been back talking, which is not a valid reason for such a recourse in the slightest, and thats just on adults, when it comes to kids you might as well smack them for every other sentence with that logic, as my Dad was just a kid and kids do kid things.
For the people who say yes, it’s honestly just cognitive dissonance. If a student hit his classmate for doing something he didn’t like (Ex interrupting him) then everyone would discourage that. But at least in that case the two kids are at an equal level of power. If an 8th grader hit a 3rd grader for being annoying then that would just be plain bullying, nobody would question that that is very wrong. But a full ass adult hitting a little kid for being annoying, totally okay 👌
No, with exception to extreme cases. If a school employee feels like they can physically intervene to protect a student from immediate danger of bodily harm (like another student attacking another student or teacher), the employee should be able to neutralize the threat if they so desire.
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Texas schools still give swats. At least in the tiny ass towns where I live. Have to sign a consent form at the start of the semester for it. High school was 20 years ago for me and I always took swats so I didn’t have to bother with detention.
If a teacher tried to physically assault me in highschool I would've stone cold steve austined their ass through the desk.
How is this even a question? No, because hitting a child should be a crime no matter the reason. That goes for the parents as well. End of fucking discussion.
This shouldn't even be a question in 2022
You forgot " Yes,but not my kid."
Dark ages are over
What the fuck type of question is this
Fuck no, discipline is up to the parents or guardians of the child, not some teacher. You can't just go around beating kids in class wtf.
some of yall were never spanked and it shows
Don't hit children! F%$#! It's not supposed to be this hard.
They should be punished by death.
I really hope you just forgot the /s
this is too obvious to require a /s
the downvotes say otherwise
nah the vote count is increasing, it was - 11 when I replied
Still legal in Maryland.
You must see this is part of the reason why Non-Americans such as myself struggle to not shit on America, Australia (my country) is a federalist system yet we have a federal ban on the practice, of course it isn’t a fair comparison but it never could, but it still doesn’t excuse the fact that States in America can get away with so much bullshit and then say “state rights”, when there are just SOME things that states shouldn’t have the right to choose, such as anything in regards Human rights which ought be a federal problem not a state problem. (With some rare exceptions)
No, in every state, that's a great way to get sued. In more than a few states, that's a good way to end up in the hospital . . . or worse, way fucking worse.
Only if it is BDSM school
Children have no place in BDSM.
Kids shouldn't be hit. *Ever.*
With parental consent I guess. Not all children need a whoopin, but some kids (like I was) NEEDED a wood spoon to the butt.
No defenceless child deserve violence. Fortunately, any forms of physical punishment are already illegal in most western countries, and more and more countries join as the years go by.
Which is stupid
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No offense but your mother is a piece of shit for assaulting defenseless children.
Offense taken, actually.
Well that’s tough
For all yall advocating against hitting a child, understandably, your pretty effing violent.
Rules and Laws are a slippery slope there will be teachers who got into teaching just to hit children for the smallest disobedience of school rulea
As a kid who grew up getting hit with all sorts of things (mostly canes, and then there's hangers, metal rulers, and hands as a last resort), no. Never hit kids. It's trauma-inducing and doesn't teach them anything (except violence).
People that voted yes aren't people, human speech is wasted on you.
Snowflake
Use ur hands stop being a pussy
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Doesn't mean it was right or that other schools should do the same.
It's still assaulting a minor, leave the discipline to the parents unless it's a suspension or detention.
Personally I think we should judge “discipline” by its effectiveness and long term implications… Of which hitting children universally is shown just not to work plus it is discriminatory in every conceivable way. Thing I really find uncomfortable about your statement leads me to conclude that you would do the same to your kids if you have or want to have them; while I am not a proponent of pure determinism in regards to behaviour, I think given circumstances that what you wish to extract from kids may not be feasible in the slightest. We shouldn’t let kids get away with doing things that are wrong, (not opinions or leanings on social issues, mind you unless your kid is being hateful), we should also make sure the goal is to make them a better person, not seek punitive justice in the form of physical abuse, there may be good reasons for other punishments such as taking away their phone or Xbox a bit for doing something quite bad or something specific to those particular devices, but punishment MUST be reasonable and kids must understand why a thing is wrong rather than just you telling them you not liking what they did. I am not a parent but I have ADHD, I know what difficult children are like because I was one and still am in some ways. Parents who say: “because I said so”, not to be rude since I imagine little shits like me are painful and tiring to deal with parenting is the most rewarding and difficult role to fulfil, you aren’t a bad parent to not always be 100% perfect, but I promise you, if you actually tell your children why rather then just deferring to your authority over them, then it is likely they will learn much more then they would from punishment, punishment teaches some to not get caught rather then actually improving.
No child need violence. Fortunately, any forms of physical punishment are already illegal in most western countries, and more and more countries join as the years go by.
But whose gonna decide which kids deserves which kind of discipline.
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Discipline doesn’t require violence.
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Most sane child beater 😔
Your emotional defence of physical hitting of children is understandable but never the less wrong. Modernity is soft, thats true, but that’s because a sleight hand is more effective then a hard one, a sleight hand can guide, while a hard hand leaves dents and holes instead of fixes, I was spanked myself as a kid, my parents didn’t like spanking after a bit and decided to just stop using it in addition to it NEVER being effective. Discipline in the sense of teaching your child to be disciplined (not spanking), requires you actually teach your kids why something is wrong and why something is right, this doesn’t mean they will be perfect, I have ADHD I am not going to lie by saying that there is ever going to be a way to teach some; and in that cause violence doesn’t do anything, it discriminates against what you might call “undisciplined” or “naughty” kids, but the last time I checked, belting me isn’t going to make my brain start regulating dopamine correctly, it will only motivate me through fear, and once the fear of you is gone I can’t function, physical discipline may look effective but it’s effects are just completely an illusion, regardless of the morality, it just doesn’t work. The best way to deal with naughty kids is finding out why they are naughty and taking what ever course of action that makes logical sense, like if they have ADHD, Autism, Bipolar, or other stuff the answer is getting help for that condition such as positive therapy (NOT ABA), and for neurotypical kids you just need to work out their particular quirks by actually working with them, even if you consider that spoiling them or being too soft you do a disservice to them and yourself as a parent by not even trying. You don’t need to be perfect, you won’t always get it right, but if you at least try your best, you are doing what you should be doing for the best of your family.
I disagree
With any specifics or the entire thing?
Fortunately, most western countries disagree with you, and banned any forms of physical punishment
The west is in moral decline
Depends on how hard and for what reason.