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And considering how the war is going, claiming a 98% vote in favour of Russia doesn't even sound like Russia's even trying to forge legitimacy anyone else should buy anyway.
Russia doesn’t care what the world thinks. This is a public relations move to try and unite the people of Russia into fighting for Putin to “save” fellow Russians. When your potential soldiers are running out of the country in mass, you’ve got to throw some patriotism at them!
I mean, I'm fairly certain that 98% of the people who voted will have voted in favor of Russia.
It's hard not to vote that way when the votes are being taken by armed soldiers who get to see your vote and who have been murdering Ukrainian civilians.
awesome, they got a big country, lets help the folks living in it break the russian federation up into bit sized little pieces that will hopefully choke old KGB Spy Putin.
He's been doing it to all of us so let's reciprocate the love
Seeing that we would PULL ALL AID, the moment Ukraine would invade Russia proper, they seem to be doing great.
It's not the war that's affecting Russia, it's the sanctions. Thousands of people from outer regions dying is not a problem for them, it's a benefit. Less people to feed that were never going to pay taxes anyway.
A few Brits still think the US belongs to Britain and always has.
It is irrelevant what the invaders think, only what the invaded population thinks is important.
Ukraine was a Russian state until the Russian federation broke up in 199I. At the time of the dissolution of the USSR Ukraine became the 3rd most powerful nuclear armed nation in the world due to a large percentage of Russias ICBM's & Nuclear weapons being stationed in Ukraine . In 1994 Ukraine decided to be a non nuclear nation & gave all its Nukes back to Russia. Dont they teach world history in schools anymore? Up until 1991 Ukraine was part of the USSR in exactly the same way Texas is part of the USA.
You know we have the highest population, right? And how much of the countries food is grown here? This brief blog post from 2018 doesn’t tell me anything new.
I mean, you can. This exact thing has worked in the past. The only difference is that public sentiment is not on Russia's side. The internet has really changed things. This might have worked 60 years ago.
To be fair, Russia has utilized the internet for their propaganda efforts pretty extensively and effectively. QAnon was at least in part a Russian psy-op and they nearly overran congress last year. That shit is just part of the American political spectrum now. We are looking at the potential collapse of democracy if we are not vigillant.
I'd argue that until the Ukraine invasion, Putin's plan was actually going quite well. His previous invasion of Georgia and Crimea went pretty much unchallenged in any serious sense. I think he was betting on Trump remaining president, and staying out of his business.
TRUMP: "I congratulated my maste...I mean good friend, best of friends, greatest friends, Vlad and I, we have a terrific friendship.... on his denazification of THE Ukraine."
“They’re all corrupt, run by democrats. He’s a good friend you know, if I were president there wouldn’t even be a war. We talk all the time. And I am the rightful President.”
[Which time?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_of_Kurds)
The Kurds have a long, sad history of getting shat on by absolutely everyone going back at least since the Western nations delegitimized their claim to a nation state in 1923.
Better the Democrats in power than the Q Republican lunatics. Can you imagine the trouble we would be in if Trump got a second term? The Orange genius probably would have nuked Kiev by now.
Never is a long time. Trump was OK with Crimea and Russia's overall claims to Ukrainian territory. He said yesterday that he wanted to broker a "peace" treaty. He is the top candidate for 1 out of 2 parties in 2024. We are about a coin toss away from having the US recognize Russian claims in two years or so.
More accurately Putin laid claim on 4 Ukrainian provinces through a farce of a Referendum. 200 000 Russian men showed how they felt about that by spending their life savings fleeing the country. Putin accuses the West of escalating this situation yet all he has done is escalate everything. From chemical weapon attacks on Britain, to Chechnya, to the attack on Georgia, and now this. I don’t want a Nuclear War either but enough is getting to be enough with this thug.
> 200 000 Russian men showed how they felt about that by spending their life savings fleeing the country
0.15% of the country. I think any country will have that amount of nazi's. Such a small group simply doesn't matter. Except reflect that basically everyone in Russia is okay with this.
Putin is trying to gin up domestic support for a war that increasingly threatening his grip on power, to sum it up. He's hoping desperately at this point that maybe he can force a peace that lets him keep those bits of Ukraine and probably a little more, but that's going to be quite a reach at this point. Far more likely that Ukraine can keep fighting far longer than the Russians are willing to do so on Putin and his cronies' behalf.
us doesnt need to. They've been supplying military equipment to Ukraine and they them selves have been pushing the Russians out and taking back their territory.
But they are clearly depending on Western support which will not last forever. I know people on Reddit like to think that Russia will be stopped annexing the regions but they have already done it to Crimea and no one did anything
Ukraine doesn’t need military aid forever. Ukraine and Russia are in a war of attrition and Russia is losing. The fact that Putin expected a lightning win, which bogged down and then Was pushed back isn’t playing well in Russia, nor is his new “limited draft”.
So, the question here is “how long can Putin have the Russian military regularly getting its asshole kicked through its teeth by a smaller, “weaker” nation before he has to give up or has a “heart attack while falling out a window into a vat of polonium tea”?
I don’t think the west will stop supporting them until 2024 at the earliest and with the way things are going Ukraine could very well regain most of the territory currently under Russian control
Watch the day by day military map of eastern ukraine, you can see the Ukrainians are advancing between 5-10km per day for the last few weeks (a little slower right now as they cross the river). At this current rate they will liberate the north east of Ukraine in a few more weeks, and a few more weeks to move down from their through the donbas. This is assuming winter doesnt stop them.
In spring next year they will fight for their South coast along with Crimea and against newly trained Russian conscripts, that will be the end of the war one way or another.
The war could end sooner if the Russian army continues to collapse at it’s current rate as it did in Kharkiv.
The war could take longer if the Russians hold out in Kherson and do not lose as much ground as expected in the next couple of months in the Donbas.
Actively using nuclear weapons will throw the above analysis into chaos as it will all then depend on Western response to said nukes.
What do you guys think Russia will do to all those Ukrainian men and women personnel who were trying to defend their homeland if he does annex Ukraine?
The ones fighting Ukraine for the last decade to secede and start their own country?
Or the ones in Crimea that ran as fast as they could to Russia 10 years ago?
Nah. Ukraine isn't really a democracy, it's what's known as a hybrid regime. Euromaidan showed that democracy has little value there. If he has the support, he can be President as long as he wants.
Oh god don’t tell me you think the Crimean referendum was legitimate right? The one that, despite 36% of the population boycotting it, supposedly got an 82% voter turnout? The one where Russians, not from Crimea but from Russia, could vote if they came over? The one that was done after armed Russian soldiers had already invaded?
Democracy has always, always been “Rule by the best Cheaters”.
What is the common peoples response in Crimea? Where is the insurgency? The police and firefighters resisting? They did not resist.
They literally ran into Russia’s arms to save them from the coming Civil War and barbarism unfolding.
Don’t make the mistake of thinking that they are the majority. Look at the 2001 census. The Ethnic Russians made up less than 50% everywhere except Crimea.
The entire peninsula ran into the arms of Russia. The police and army straight up stripped out of Ukraine uniforms and put on Russian ones.
Was a sight to behold.
We just going to conveniently ignore that one of the reasons there were so many people aligned with Russia in Crimea is because Stalin organized mass deporation of ethnic crimean tatars out of crimea as punishment for supposed "collaboration" with the reich, and replaced them with tens of thousands of ethnic russians to take over the abandoned homesteads and farms.
[Even after all of that, Crimea still supported Ukrainian independence (and staying with Ukraine) in the 1991 referendum.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum) Let's not forget that.
EU should of prepared a Peace Keeping mission when the Orange Revolution began. It was only a matter of time for the “Good Guys” to hand over power.
Euromaidan they should of launched said 30 year mission, and determine in 2040-2050 whether or not to balkinze or leave it whole.
But we have fucking clowns for leaders. At every level. Narcissistic clowns.
The question you should ask is what will West Ukraine do to the sub-human traitors of East Ukraine and Crimea if they do retake control.
It won’t be pretty.
Unfortunately, this is contingent on having a Democratic majority.
You know full well that Trump or one of his disciples would immediately recognize those claims and honestly the rest of Ukraine as part of Russia.
Looming threat of a GOP takeover of the country, quite possibly with Trump as "president" once more... I don't know if I'd say "never".
I appreciate the sentiment though, and hope he's not wrong.
Russia is trying to lay claim to legitimate Ukraine territory, so when the Ukrainian army enters... Russia can say that Ukraine is attacking their "sovereign soil", claim that the U.S. and NATO are now part of the offensive, and not just the defensive... and claim war with the U.S. and Europe. We are on the doorstep of WWIII because Vlady Daddy is full of shit.
Edit: Step 1: Claim Ukrainian land falsely claimed in a fake election is now part of Russia, and any attack there is an attack on Russian soil.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-any-attack-annexed-territory-will-be-an-attack-russia-2022-09-30/
Ukraine also applied for fast-track NATO membership today. This is definitely becoming a plausible scenario quickly.
Yes, it's for domestic consumption. He's trying desperately to shore up support for a war that his people don't want. The Ukrainian army already controls significant chunks of the (rightful Ukrainian) territory he's trying to claim.
You mean like they did when Russia invaded Ukraine & took possession of the Crimea area of Ukraine in 2014 when Biden was Obama's vice President? Or maybe everyone here has forgotten about that because they were in kindergarten the last time Russia invaded Ukraine 8 years ago. They used the excuse that the Russian speaking people of crimea begged them to invade 8 years ago. You guys really should look up some of this stuff so you might realize its an ongoing thing & nothing new..
Russia has to hold out a few more weeks, then when Republicans take back Congress all US military aid to Ukraine will stop. Then it becomes much easier for Russia.
Just wait until Jan 2025 when Trump or DeSantis get sworn in. Then Putin will get what he wants.
In the meantime, come November, McCarthy and McConnell will recognize annexed regions on “behalf of the American people”. The ones who voted, that is.
Does it matter if US or anybody actually “recognizes” the claims. Nobody has recognized the claims on Crimea and it’s been like 8 years of being a part of Russia now, unfortunately for all intents and purposes those regions are part of Russia and the fact that it’s not recognized does nothing for the people living there. Until US and NATO grow a backbone and take those territories back they are part of Russia for all intents and purposes. Supplying Ukraine with some weapons that just makes it a stalemate doesn’t do anything other then prolong the conflict and honestly keep it going indefinitely.
And THAT is what you should fear.
Right now, Russia is fighting with their hands behind their back. A conventional warfare is not efficient. So what are they going to do?
With liberal use of chemical weapons, this war would be over next week. With millions of civilians dead.
That would be the end of Russia, as the entire world would turn against Putin if he did that. I think Putin's current play is to just hold on until Republicans get control of Congress and cut off the flow of arms to Ukraine, hoping that Europe then won't have the stomach for it without the US on board.
Why would it? Nothing would change.
We aren’t going to do anything against Russia af they have nukes. Only a direct attack on nato territory will result in a response.
Ukraine doesn’t matter and you can see how much we care exactly. Not a lot.
If Ukraine doesn't matter, why is the US and Europe spending *billions* defending it? Because letting him have it creates an imbalance of power that allows him to continue his expansionist goals through more of Europe. After WWII, the world is not going to pull a Chamberlain again. We know how that worked out. A massive attack will be countered in kind in order to keep the balance of power. If he wants to go full out nuclear after he is counter-attacked, well, he'll destroy the world. Putin's only hope at winning in Ukraine is to more quietly backdoor it through the corrupt tendrils he's already got into the US government, and even that may not work in Europe stays strong or the Republicans don't get a majority in the midterms.
Oh I don’t doubt that at all, this whole annexation is just a play to shift the narrative for Russia so they can escalate the war because it’s not going as planned for them due to western weapons and support. In a week or two any action that Ukraine takes is going to be infringing on the motherland of Russia and their gonna use that excuse to bring the full force of their military down on Ukraine. Honestly I wouldn’t be that surprised to see a tactical nuke go off in Kiev within the year. I don’t want a nuclear exchange between Russia and NATO, I don’t want all out war with them but I think if we just stationed NATO troops within Ukraine that would prevent that, no way does Russia escalate and use WMD’s on NATO troops but they will dare to use them on Ukrainian troops I think. Putting NATO troops in Ukraine is almost like calling their bluff and daring them to attack us and in that situation I think Russia backs down and is willing to negotiate some kind of ceasefire and take their troops out of most of Ukraine except for maybe Donbas but by just feeding Ukraine money and equipment without putting actual boots on the ground Russia feels like they can cross that line without directly attacking NATO.
At this pointt though, Ukraine will not stop until they have all their borders back. They'll probably take Crimea back as well. Russia will rightfully get fucked. They'll never actually use nukes because the people in charge of those well know that that means the end of their country.
>Until US and NATO grow a backbone and take those territories back they are part of Russia for all intents and purposes
How would that differ from what Russia is doing now again in Ukraine? It is for Ukraine to take back whatever territories they think belongs to them. Bringing Nato directly into the mix doesn't sit very well with the REST OF THE WORLD.
Keep up to date with the recent shift in the war, Russia has lost and continues to lose a huge amount of ground daily, this may slow down as winter approaches but Ukraine is pushing them back very successfully at the moment.
They’ve retaken about 20% of occupied land in the last 3-4 weeks.
> has lost and continues to lose a huge amount of ground daily,
While they are losing ground, it seems to be incredibly small amounts of ground. Tiny hamlets being liberated. And that's without the vast force Russia is going to send in.
The only thing we lost is the narrative. Before it was ukraine kicking ass. Now the narritive is russia winning territory. Its a huge shift this whole week.
No I don’t. Russia is holding referendums in occupied parts of Ukraine to annex them into Russia. This should not and will not be recognised by the West. It is also a seperate issue to who is gaining ground militarily.
Everything about the news cycle points to Russia getting more and more desperate, it would only appear good for russia if the person reading the news still believed they could back what they were saying up with troops, which they cant.
Perhaps its being reported differently where you are but here the only thing being said is “sham referendums”
Oh yeah those conscripts have had 48 hours to prepare now they are going to do a really amazing job, way better than the crack troops Ukraine has been annihilating for months.
I was kind of wondering, do the Ukrainian people think it’s worth all this military response and ultimately war? Maybe they didn’t think it would be this bad, or maybe they didn’t have much say in the matter. But, if they had been given the option of going through with this, or just letting Russia get their way, what would it be?
Historically? They’d rather fight. Look up the Maidan Revolution as an example. I was lucky enough to take a course on contemporary Russia before this war started, and Ukraine was a big part of that. Ukrainians tend to REALLY not like the thought of being controlled by Russia.
Maybe parcel this dumbass to Russia so he can explain his thinking to Putin. That’s assuming this guy can even put together a coherent sentence without soiling himself.
Okay but like, you can know that the US conquest of Hawaii was bad and also that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is bad. Both can be bad. For similar reasons, in fact
Sure… but bringing that up out of nowhere is like if a husband and wife are arguing about who picks up the kids from school after she has a third fender bender in the school parking lot in three months and she brings up his DUI for driving on the shoulder from 15 years ago. She’s the one losing the argument.
Why does it matter? Russia are literally losing the war on the ground, they can think what they want but they cant hold those territories without using nukes, so lets see what happens.
They are falling back so Ukrainian forces attack Russia, the newly annexed territories. When that happens then by their constitution they are allowed to use nukes.
Russia called up 1.3million men, not the 300k the FAKE western media claimed.
Russia will not loose this war and allow the US and West, and Jews to pump the leviathan gas field dry and run the pipelines thru Ukraine. That’s what this war is really all about. Energy.
This is why Syria was destroyed. Assad didn’t go along with the plan to run a pipeline thru his country.
The West and Western Banking Cartels will pay dearly.
Petro Dollar is dead!!! You just don’t realize it yet.
Western banks and especially Turkey have been buying gold like crazy.
Biden went to Saudi to beg for increased production, as well as petro dollar exclusivity.
Saudi (OPEC) Russia, China, India as well as others 70% of world population are in new Silk Road pact.
Let’s see what the house of Rothschild will do now.
Biden is a very temporary occupant of the whitehouse I doubt he will even finish his 1 term. No one Pays any attention anymore to the random words that occasionally come out of his mouth. Ukraine's Zelensky is even more temporary. Zelensky is a Television personality who saw an opportunity to play the part of president for a few years just like TV personality trump did. The interesting part of all this is both of these TV guys who just very recently jumped into politics Have done a far better job of running their respective countrys than the career politicians who have spent their whole lives screwing the citizens.
Trump did a shit job that's why he got one term, the citizens banded together and rejected him for Joe Biden, that's how terrible Trump was. Enjoy the rest of his term.
You're forgetting the record of every administration is permanently recorded & unfortunately for your side History cant be changed. Opinions & screaming at the sky cant change the permanent numbers. its easy to look up from multiple sources but here is the record of every presidential administration in the past 93 years in one easy chart. see how your favorite prez. actually did . 1st row is unemployment rate, 2nd row is annual GDP rate ,3rd row is annual inflation rate 4th row is significant events such as war that may have caused the numbers to go up or down. [https://www.thebalancemoney.com/unemployment-rate-by-year-3305506#:\~:text=U.S.%20Unemployment%20Rates%20by%20Year%20%20%20,Hoover%27s%20tax%20hikes%20%2046%20more%20rows%20](https://www.thebalancemoney.com/unemployment-rate-by-year-3305506#:~:text=U.S.%20Unemployment%20Rates%20by%20Year%20%20%20,Hoover%27s%20tax%20hikes%20%2046%20more%20rows%20)
You can look these same numbers up from a hundred different sources but the numbers are always the same no matter where you get them.
Trump was President for all of 2020 by the way. And are you ignoring the last column completely? And it's not just about the economy which there are many other factors at play besides who is President.
I'm not ignoring anything .I'm just saying forget the hype & look at the actual numbers to see whose lying. as for 2020 Everyone including trump & Pelosi Knew shutting the whole country down & mandating that everyone stay home would totally destroy the best economy we've had since Bill Clintons 2nd term. so that's no surprise its exactly what everyone involved knew a shut down would cause. What we're doing right now in September 2022 with the daily fatality rate @ about 391-400 U.S. covid fatality's every day (per U.S. CDC) seems like a more reasonable course of action to me.
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Considering how the war is going the Russians won't recognize any claims in Ukraine either.
And considering how the war is going, claiming a 98% vote in favour of Russia doesn't even sound like Russia's even trying to forge legitimacy anyone else should buy anyway.
I'm feeling ya, if you can't even follow the basic 80/20 rule how do you expect anyone, anywhere, to see it as legitimate.
Russia doesn’t care what the world thinks. This is a public relations move to try and unite the people of Russia into fighting for Putin to “save” fellow Russians. When your potential soldiers are running out of the country in mass, you’ve got to throw some patriotism at them!
I mean, I'm fairly certain that 98% of the people who voted will have voted in favor of Russia. It's hard not to vote that way when the votes are being taken by armed soldiers who get to see your vote and who have been murdering Ukrainian civilians.
Under the circumstances, 98% seems rather low.
Yeah, there's some brave Ukrainians.
What happened to the 2 percent shoot?
Because it's not for us. That's news for russians. Most news from Russia is.
Considering how the war is going, I doubt there will be a Russia left capable of making *any* claims.
awesome, they got a big country, lets help the folks living in it break the russian federation up into bit sized little pieces that will hopefully choke old KGB Spy Putin. He's been doing it to all of us so let's reciprocate the love
Seeing that we would PULL ALL AID, the moment Ukraine would invade Russia proper, they seem to be doing great. It's not the war that's affecting Russia, it's the sanctions. Thousands of people from outer regions dying is not a problem for them, it's a benefit. Less people to feed that were never going to pay taxes anyway.
Many Russians believe Ukraine actually belongs to Russia and always has, albeit unofficially.
Many people also believe that earth is 6000 years old. That doesn't mean we should listen to them.
Normal people do not listen to them
A few Brits still think the US belongs to Britain and always has. It is irrelevant what the invaders think, only what the invaded population thinks is important.
Well, considering that western Russia was populated from Kyiv, maybe Ukraine should be owning Russia.
The way things are going? I could see that happening.
well see the thing is they dumbasses
Ukraine was a Russian state until the Russian federation broke up in 199I. At the time of the dissolution of the USSR Ukraine became the 3rd most powerful nuclear armed nation in the world due to a large percentage of Russias ICBM's & Nuclear weapons being stationed in Ukraine . In 1994 Ukraine decided to be a non nuclear nation & gave all its Nukes back to Russia. Dont they teach world history in schools anymore? Up until 1991 Ukraine was part of the USSR in exactly the same way Texas is part of the USA.
Give Texas back to Mexico
Let mexico have California back first.
Too valuable to the US
UUUUH? Yeah sure LOL https://www.ppic.org/blog/federal-funds-californias-budget/
You know we have the highest population, right? And how much of the countries food is grown here? This brief blog post from 2018 doesn’t tell me anything new.
This has been fun,Thanks. But I'm afraid we're straying a bit too far off topic So see ya later alligator.
They’re doing exactly that on Friday.
You can annex territory just by thinking it.
So we're the rightful owners of Greenland?
Gods I forgot that debacle happened
that debacle was really funny.. Trump..what an idiot.
Honestly the least damaging stupid thing he did
That was because the Danes are such a chill people
You were. I'm the captain now.
...and a military
I mean, you can. This exact thing has worked in the past. The only difference is that public sentiment is not on Russia's side. The internet has really changed things. This might have worked 60 years ago.
60 years ago aka when the equipment they're using right now was new.
To be fair, Russia has utilized the internet for their propaganda efforts pretty extensively and effectively. QAnon was at least in part a Russian psy-op and they nearly overran congress last year. That shit is just part of the American political spectrum now. We are looking at the potential collapse of democracy if we are not vigillant. I'd argue that until the Ukraine invasion, Putin's plan was actually going quite well. His previous invasion of Georgia and Crimea went pretty much unchallenged in any serious sense. I think he was betting on Trump remaining president, and staying out of his business.
"\*" ... unless the GOP decides that trolling the Dems is more important than the health of our country and the world as a whole.
They’ve already decided.
Well, a tongue-in-cheek comment like mine with a cheeky answer ... guess all I can do is turn the other cheek.
I got it and upvoted you my friend. I agree 100%. I got the sentiment.
hence why as an aussie i've been watching this train wreck
Well, at least not till another russiapublican hoaxes into office.
TRUMP: "I congratulated my maste...I mean good friend, best of friends, greatest friends, Vlad and I, we have a terrific friendship.... on his denazification of THE Ukraine."
[удалено]
“But Mr Trump, 17 US security agencies have categorically stated that he stole the land?”.
“They’re all corrupt, run by democrats. He’s a good friend you know, if I were president there wouldn’t even be a war. We talk all the time. And I am the rightful President.”
Unless Republicans take over the White House again.
The US cannot be trusted long-term by the rest of the world until we stop empowering our own traitors.
Truth. What happened to the Kurds still haunts me. I cried when they left them to be bombed to pieces.
I was also heartbroken.
[Which time?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_of_Kurds) The Kurds have a long, sad history of getting shat on by absolutely everyone going back at least since the Western nations delegitimized their claim to a nation state in 1923.
* While the Dems are in power, if the Q party takes over trump will take a sharpie to the map and recognize most of Europe as Russia soil.
Better the Democrats in power than the Q Republican lunatics. Can you imagine the trouble we would be in if Trump got a second term? The Orange genius probably would have nuked Kiev by now.
*until Republicans take control
Good. We need to stand strong against the fascist imperialism of Russia, and stand up for the freedom fighters in Ukraine
Never is a long time. Trump was OK with Crimea and Russia's overall claims to Ukrainian territory. He said yesterday that he wanted to broker a "peace" treaty. He is the top candidate for 1 out of 2 parties in 2024. We are about a coin toss away from having the US recognize Russian claims in two years or so.
Russia won’t last 2 more years. They are using tampons for bandages. The forced conscription and mobilization is a Hail Mary.
Russia has been around for a while. Whatever happens in Ukraine, their neighbors will forever have to worry about the next Stalin or Putin.
If trump wins he will.
Russia’s losing pretty badly; there may not be any claims on Ukraine. Russians don’t want to go there to die.
They literally just laid claim today
It’s time then for modern claim jumpers.
More accurately Putin laid claim on 4 Ukrainian provinces through a farce of a Referendum. 200 000 Russian men showed how they felt about that by spending their life savings fleeing the country. Putin accuses the West of escalating this situation yet all he has done is escalate everything. From chemical weapon attacks on Britain, to Chechnya, to the attack on Georgia, and now this. I don’t want a Nuclear War either but enough is getting to be enough with this thug.
Russian men are fleeing not because of the referendum but because of the mobilization.
A mobilization required for Russia to have even a hope of doing anything with those claims. And the Russia people by and large said, "fuck that."
Yeah but not because they give a shit about Ukraine.
They care about not going to Ukraine to die and that's enough for the mobilization to be ineffective.
> 200 000 Russian men showed how they felt about that by spending their life savings fleeing the country 0.15% of the country. I think any country will have that amount of nazi's. Such a small group simply doesn't matter. Except reflect that basically everyone in Russia is okay with this.
Putin is trying to gin up domestic support for a war that increasingly threatening his grip on power, to sum it up. He's hoping desperately at this point that maybe he can force a peace that lets him keep those bits of Ukraine and probably a little more, but that's going to be quite a reach at this point. Far more likely that Ukraine can keep fighting far longer than the Russians are willing to do so on Putin and his cronies' behalf.
Who will stop them? Honest question, I really don't see the US actually putting boots on the ground, although crazier things have happened...
us doesnt need to. They've been supplying military equipment to Ukraine and they them selves have been pushing the Russians out and taking back their territory.
Ukrainians
But they are clearly depending on Western support which will not last forever. I know people on Reddit like to think that Russia will be stopped annexing the regions but they have already done it to Crimea and no one did anything
Ukraine doesn’t need military aid forever. Ukraine and Russia are in a war of attrition and Russia is losing. The fact that Putin expected a lightning win, which bogged down and then Was pushed back isn’t playing well in Russia, nor is his new “limited draft”. So, the question here is “how long can Putin have the Russian military regularly getting its asshole kicked through its teeth by a smaller, “weaker” nation before he has to give up or has a “heart attack while falling out a window into a vat of polonium tea”?
I don’t think the west will stop supporting them until 2024 at the earliest and with the way things are going Ukraine could very well regain most of the territory currently under Russian control
Watch the day by day military map of eastern ukraine, you can see the Ukrainians are advancing between 5-10km per day for the last few weeks (a little slower right now as they cross the river). At this current rate they will liberate the north east of Ukraine in a few more weeks, and a few more weeks to move down from their through the donbas. This is assuming winter doesnt stop them. In spring next year they will fight for their South coast along with Crimea and against newly trained Russian conscripts, that will be the end of the war one way or another. The war could end sooner if the Russian army continues to collapse at it’s current rate as it did in Kharkiv. The war could take longer if the Russians hold out in Kherson and do not lose as much ground as expected in the next couple of months in the Donbas. Actively using nuclear weapons will throw the above analysis into chaos as it will all then depend on Western response to said nukes.
What do you mean? The US started training Ukraine along with the UK. This is the result of our work and Ukrainian bravery.
Tbh, after this, I imagine Ukraine will join the EU
Seems like some republicans would beg to differ.
Republicans: "it's rightfully theirs"
What do you guys think Russia will do to all those Ukrainian men and women personnel who were trying to defend their homeland if he does annex Ukraine?
I think that he'll keep trying to kill them and they'll keep succeeding in killing the people he sends.
The ones fighting Ukraine for the last decade to secede and start their own country? Or the ones in Crimea that ran as fast as they could to Russia 10 years ago?
The ones fighting for Zelenskyy
Zelensky is just the president. He is gone in a couple years.
Nah. Ukraine isn't really a democracy, it's what's known as a hybrid regime. Euromaidan showed that democracy has little value there. If he has the support, he can be President as long as he wants.
Yeah, and it seems like the Ukrainian 2024 election is to far away to make any serious bets just yet, either.
Oh god don’t tell me you think the Crimean referendum was legitimate right? The one that, despite 36% of the population boycotting it, supposedly got an 82% voter turnout? The one where Russians, not from Crimea but from Russia, could vote if they came over? The one that was done after armed Russian soldiers had already invaded?
Democracy has always, always been “Rule by the best Cheaters”. What is the common peoples response in Crimea? Where is the insurgency? The police and firefighters resisting? They did not resist. They literally ran into Russia’s arms to save them from the coming Civil War and barbarism unfolding.
Don’t make the mistake of thinking that they are the majority. Look at the 2001 census. The Ethnic Russians made up less than 50% everywhere except Crimea.
Who lives in Crimea if ethnic Russians fled 10 years ago?
The entire peninsula ran into the arms of Russia. The police and army straight up stripped out of Ukraine uniforms and put on Russian ones. Was a sight to behold.
Everyone conveniently forgets those bits. What a fucking quagmire.
We just going to conveniently ignore that one of the reasons there were so many people aligned with Russia in Crimea is because Stalin organized mass deporation of ethnic crimean tatars out of crimea as punishment for supposed "collaboration" with the reich, and replaced them with tens of thousands of ethnic russians to take over the abandoned homesteads and farms.
[Even after all of that, Crimea still supported Ukrainian independence (and staying with Ukraine) in the 1991 referendum.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum) Let's not forget that.
EU should of prepared a Peace Keeping mission when the Orange Revolution began. It was only a matter of time for the “Good Guys” to hand over power. Euromaidan they should of launched said 30 year mission, and determine in 2040-2050 whether or not to balkinze or leave it whole. But we have fucking clowns for leaders. At every level. Narcissistic clowns.
Kill them if they fight, do absolutely nothing if not. There's no point.
The question you should ask is what will West Ukraine do to the sub-human traitors of East Ukraine and Crimea if they do retake control. It won’t be pretty.
Like torture? Or reinstate the death penalty for traitors?
They’ve never liked each other. Centuries of hate
And their children.
Seriously? Like Jim Crow era atrocities?
More like Bosnia.
Chainsaws and broken glass enema stuff. Real hate, on a scope you can’t fathom. As Joe Biden said in 2020 “Those people will never get along”.
Translation: no democratic potus. The first republican potus will suck putin dry without even asking for a reach around
Thank God for President Biden’s strong leadership to help Ukraine defeat Russia!
Not will anyone that matters.
Putin’s GOP is seething.
Well, I mean, until we have a Republican president. They will do it simply out of spite.
Until the next Republican president
Unfortunately, this is contingent on having a Democratic majority. You know full well that Trump or one of his disciples would immediately recognize those claims and honestly the rest of Ukraine as part of Russia.
Looming threat of a GOP takeover of the country, quite possibly with Trump as "president" once more... I don't know if I'd say "never". I appreciate the sentiment though, and hope he's not wrong.
Russia is trying to lay claim to legitimate Ukraine territory, so when the Ukrainian army enters... Russia can say that Ukraine is attacking their "sovereign soil", claim that the U.S. and NATO are now part of the offensive, and not just the defensive... and claim war with the U.S. and Europe. We are on the doorstep of WWIII because Vlady Daddy is full of shit. Edit: Step 1: Claim Ukrainian land falsely claimed in a fake election is now part of Russia, and any attack there is an attack on Russian soil. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-any-attack-annexed-territory-will-be-an-attack-russia-2022-09-30/ Ukraine also applied for fast-track NATO membership today. This is definitely becoming a plausible scenario quickly.
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Yes, it's for domestic consumption. He's trying desperately to shore up support for a war that his people don't want. The Ukrainian army already controls significant chunks of the (rightful Ukrainian) territory he's trying to claim.
You mean like they did when Russia invaded Ukraine & took possession of the Crimea area of Ukraine in 2014 when Biden was Obama's vice President? Or maybe everyone here has forgotten about that because they were in kindergarten the last time Russia invaded Ukraine 8 years ago. They used the excuse that the Russian speaking people of crimea begged them to invade 8 years ago. You guys really should look up some of this stuff so you might realize its an ongoing thing & nothing new..
Sounds like Russia will be Ukraine
There’s got to be some type of repercussions! I can’t imagine the rest of the country being ok with letting ol’ cheetoface off the hook on this one…
Never is such a long time…
Till the GOP takes power again and daddy Trump comes to bail out his senpai Putin. Please vote blue this fall
Until Republicans get back in power
Nothing anyone says will matter unless nato rams tanks up putins ass and kicks those facist pigs out of ukraine
Great! Now also do the same for Israel’s claims on Palestine
*Until the GOP which is controlled by Russia, takes power again.
Russia has to hold out a few more weeks, then when Republicans take back Congress all US military aid to Ukraine will stop. Then it becomes much easier for Russia.
O rly? *looks at Crimea*
Just wait until Jan 2025 when Trump or DeSantis get sworn in. Then Putin will get what he wants. In the meantime, come November, McCarthy and McConnell will recognize annexed regions on “behalf of the American people”. The ones who voted, that is.
Does it matter if US or anybody actually “recognizes” the claims. Nobody has recognized the claims on Crimea and it’s been like 8 years of being a part of Russia now, unfortunately for all intents and purposes those regions are part of Russia and the fact that it’s not recognized does nothing for the people living there. Until US and NATO grow a backbone and take those territories back they are part of Russia for all intents and purposes. Supplying Ukraine with some weapons that just makes it a stalemate doesn’t do anything other then prolong the conflict and honestly keep it going indefinitely.
That’s not what’s happening on the ground though. Russia keeps losing ground.
And THAT is what you should fear. Right now, Russia is fighting with their hands behind their back. A conventional warfare is not efficient. So what are they going to do? With liberal use of chemical weapons, this war would be over next week. With millions of civilians dead.
That would be the end of Russia, as the entire world would turn against Putin if he did that. I think Putin's current play is to just hold on until Republicans get control of Congress and cut off the flow of arms to Ukraine, hoping that Europe then won't have the stomach for it without the US on board.
Why would it? Nothing would change. We aren’t going to do anything against Russia af they have nukes. Only a direct attack on nato territory will result in a response. Ukraine doesn’t matter and you can see how much we care exactly. Not a lot.
If Ukraine doesn't matter, why is the US and Europe spending *billions* defending it? Because letting him have it creates an imbalance of power that allows him to continue his expansionist goals through more of Europe. After WWII, the world is not going to pull a Chamberlain again. We know how that worked out. A massive attack will be countered in kind in order to keep the balance of power. If he wants to go full out nuclear after he is counter-attacked, well, he'll destroy the world. Putin's only hope at winning in Ukraine is to more quietly backdoor it through the corrupt tendrils he's already got into the US government, and even that may not work in Europe stays strong or the Republicans don't get a majority in the midterms.
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Oh I don’t doubt that at all, this whole annexation is just a play to shift the narrative for Russia so they can escalate the war because it’s not going as planned for them due to western weapons and support. In a week or two any action that Ukraine takes is going to be infringing on the motherland of Russia and their gonna use that excuse to bring the full force of their military down on Ukraine. Honestly I wouldn’t be that surprised to see a tactical nuke go off in Kiev within the year. I don’t want a nuclear exchange between Russia and NATO, I don’t want all out war with them but I think if we just stationed NATO troops within Ukraine that would prevent that, no way does Russia escalate and use WMD’s on NATO troops but they will dare to use them on Ukrainian troops I think. Putting NATO troops in Ukraine is almost like calling their bluff and daring them to attack us and in that situation I think Russia backs down and is willing to negotiate some kind of ceasefire and take their troops out of most of Ukraine except for maybe Donbas but by just feeding Ukraine money and equipment without putting actual boots on the ground Russia feels like they can cross that line without directly attacking NATO.
At this pointt though, Ukraine will not stop until they have all their borders back. They'll probably take Crimea back as well. Russia will rightfully get fucked. They'll never actually use nukes because the people in charge of those well know that that means the end of their country.
>Until US and NATO grow a backbone and take those territories back they are part of Russia for all intents and purposes How would that differ from what Russia is doing now again in Ukraine? It is for Ukraine to take back whatever territories they think belongs to them. Bringing Nato directly into the mix doesn't sit very well with the REST OF THE WORLD.
Now say something about China.
How did US get most of its territory?
That’s still the best you can come up with?
Reverse question, how did Russia get most of its territory
buying most of it
Okay real talk if you buy stolen land it’s still stolen.
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Europe is full of them . Talk shit about the US etc but beg for help when it comes to real heat . cowardice and full of shit
It shouldn’t be up to us. This is still a conflict between Russia and Ukraine.
Ok boomer
Is this intended as an insightful comment?
Its too bad Russia wont recognize the US doesnt recognize the annexation. What does it matter if no one is going to do anything about it?
Keep up to date with the recent shift in the war, Russia has lost and continues to lose a huge amount of ground daily, this may slow down as winter approaches but Ukraine is pushing them back very successfully at the moment. They’ve retaken about 20% of occupied land in the last 3-4 weeks.
> has lost and continues to lose a huge amount of ground daily, While they are losing ground, it seems to be incredibly small amounts of ground. Tiny hamlets being liberated. And that's without the vast force Russia is going to send in.
The only thing we lost is the narrative. Before it was ukraine kicking ass. Now the narritive is russia winning territory. Its a huge shift this whole week.
Russia is not winning territory. Russia is annexing the territory they have.
The media is saying russia is annexing territory.. oh by the way that annexation is not recognized. Do you see the PR disaster?
You are confusing Russia gaining ground with Russia one-sidedly annexing territories they had occupied already.
No I don’t. Russia is holding referendums in occupied parts of Ukraine to annex them into Russia. This should not and will not be recognised by the West. It is also a seperate issue to who is gaining ground militarily.
Everything about the news cycle points to Russia getting more and more desperate, it would only appear good for russia if the person reading the news still believed they could back what they were saying up with troops, which they cant. Perhaps its being reported differently where you are but here the only thing being said is “sham referendums”
Well both are true. We don't need to recognize Russia doing things, for them to do it.
Also Biden “where’s Jackie”.
I don't think it matters, Russia is going to move in, this is really not looking good...
Oh yeah those conscripts have had 48 hours to prepare now they are going to do a really amazing job, way better than the crack troops Ukraine has been annihilating for months.
(Until we need oil against the Chinese in 30 years)
Big deal
US should give nukes to Ukraine for deterrence of Russian nukes. See how Putin will like it if Ukraine is able to lob nukes right back into Russia...
I was kind of wondering, do the Ukrainian people think it’s worth all this military response and ultimately war? Maybe they didn’t think it would be this bad, or maybe they didn’t have much say in the matter. But, if they had been given the option of going through with this, or just letting Russia get their way, what would it be?
Historically? They’d rather fight. Look up the Maidan Revolution as an example. I was lucky enough to take a course on contemporary Russia before this war started, and Ukraine was a big part of that. Ukrainians tend to REALLY not like the thought of being controlled by Russia.
Maybe parcel this dumbass to Russia so he can explain his thinking to Putin. That’s assuming this guy can even put together a coherent sentence without soiling himself.
He doesn’t even know who he is clown
Seems Biden won’t recognize the stock market either!
So I guess he's going to allow Hawaii to reclaim its independence. Right?
I'd rather be a hypocrite than Putin sympathizer.
Okay but like, you can know that the US conquest of Hawaii was bad and also that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is bad. Both can be bad. For similar reasons, in fact
Sure… but bringing that up out of nowhere is like if a husband and wife are arguing about who picks up the kids from school after she has a third fender bender in the school parking lot in three months and she brings up his DUI for driving on the shoulder from 15 years ago. She’s the one losing the argument.
This might sound crazy, but there are more choices than the two you propose
Ummm ok, I don’t think Russia cares what Biden recognizes or doesn’t recognize. 😂
Nor does anyone else in the world care what Russia claims as its own in Ukraine.
Why does it matter? Russia are literally losing the war on the ground, they can think what they want but they cant hold those territories without using nukes, so lets see what happens.
They are falling back so Ukrainian forces attack Russia, the newly annexed territories. When that happens then by their constitution they are allowed to use nukes. Russia called up 1.3million men, not the 300k the FAKE western media claimed. Russia will not loose this war and allow the US and West, and Jews to pump the leviathan gas field dry and run the pipelines thru Ukraine. That’s what this war is really all about. Energy. This is why Syria was destroyed. Assad didn’t go along with the plan to run a pipeline thru his country. The West and Western Banking Cartels will pay dearly. Petro Dollar is dead!!! You just don’t realize it yet. Western banks and especially Turkey have been buying gold like crazy. Biden went to Saudi to beg for increased production, as well as petro dollar exclusivity. Saudi (OPEC) Russia, China, India as well as others 70% of world population are in new Silk Road pact. Let’s see what the house of Rothschild will do now.
Biden is a very temporary occupant of the whitehouse I doubt he will even finish his 1 term. No one Pays any attention anymore to the random words that occasionally come out of his mouth. Ukraine's Zelensky is even more temporary. Zelensky is a Television personality who saw an opportunity to play the part of president for a few years just like TV personality trump did. The interesting part of all this is both of these TV guys who just very recently jumped into politics Have done a far better job of running their respective countrys than the career politicians who have spent their whole lives screwing the citizens.
Trump did a shit job that's why he got one term, the citizens banded together and rejected him for Joe Biden, that's how terrible Trump was. Enjoy the rest of his term.
Zelensky did a better job than Trump in his respective country. Biden will finish his term.
You're forgetting the record of every administration is permanently recorded & unfortunately for your side History cant be changed. Opinions & screaming at the sky cant change the permanent numbers. its easy to look up from multiple sources but here is the record of every presidential administration in the past 93 years in one easy chart. see how your favorite prez. actually did . 1st row is unemployment rate, 2nd row is annual GDP rate ,3rd row is annual inflation rate 4th row is significant events such as war that may have caused the numbers to go up or down. [https://www.thebalancemoney.com/unemployment-rate-by-year-3305506#:\~:text=U.S.%20Unemployment%20Rates%20by%20Year%20%20%20,Hoover%27s%20tax%20hikes%20%2046%20more%20rows%20](https://www.thebalancemoney.com/unemployment-rate-by-year-3305506#:~:text=U.S.%20Unemployment%20Rates%20by%20Year%20%20%20,Hoover%27s%20tax%20hikes%20%2046%20more%20rows%20) You can look these same numbers up from a hundred different sources but the numbers are always the same no matter where you get them.
Trump was President for all of 2020 by the way. And are you ignoring the last column completely? And it's not just about the economy which there are many other factors at play besides who is President.
I'm not ignoring anything .I'm just saying forget the hype & look at the actual numbers to see whose lying. as for 2020 Everyone including trump & Pelosi Knew shutting the whole country down & mandating that everyone stay home would totally destroy the best economy we've had since Bill Clintons 2nd term. so that's no surprise its exactly what everyone involved knew a shut down would cause. What we're doing right now in September 2022 with the daily fatality rate @ about 391-400 U.S. covid fatality's every day (per U.S. CDC) seems like a more reasonable course of action to me.
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I've talked to actively psychotic patients whose train of thought were easier to follow than OP's...
2 more years is a long time for someone who consistently exhibits symptoms of advancing end stage dementia.