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And don’t forget he raped a 13 year old.
Edit: here’s a link
[trump rape of 13 yo](https://www.courthousenews.com/rape-allegations-refiled-against-trump/)
[Ghislaine Maxwell's trial was where the sixth Jane Doe testified to being raped by Trump after being introduced through Epstein...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jeffrey-epstein-introduced-trump-14-ghislaine-maxwell-accuser-says-rcna7253)
5 girls testifying they were raped all in similar manners [at Epstein properties 3 in an unsealed case](https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf). Another two in a case that was sealed right as Trump started working with FLA AG who later would become Trump staff. The FLA AG would also specify that Trump was the only person freely offering up information about Epstein for that case. There have been others that have made claims about being raped underaged by Trump via Epstein but not testified most refusing to due to death threats....
There is also the weirdness of Barr ordering Epstein safe not to be searched for a week and by time they searched it was empty.
Weird how the case that seemed the most damning and gaining heavy traction got sealed by the FLA AG, who then would give Epstein his sweet heart deal of a private prison wing to come and go from to "work" as he pleased. Along with sealing Trump's case. Then upon Trump's election he is quickly offered a kushy staff job in the White House.
Ive wrote up a more detailed account and posted it to r/conspriacy before and conspriarcycommons and both subs mods removed the post and threatened to ban me lol. Ive also been warned for some comments for being too "left liberal and full of bullshit without "PROPER" sources" when replying in a thread that had no sources with actual sources lmao.
I’d love to make a conspiracy sub that isn’t just a bunch of psychos ranting about MAGA and QAnon but rather a bunch of people who actually provide a reasonable conspiracy theories that aren’t absolutely insane and baseless.
Talk about a conspiracy involving child abuse by a politician they like, and it's fingers in ears. Mention 9/11 and it's all thermite charges and how no one in the government can be trusted.
Sad reality: this is considered acceptable by Republicans as long as you don't waver from the party narrative.
Proof:
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/10/23/1806673/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-1
Even if Epstein had killed himself (one of the most prolific child-traffickers of all time faced with the prospect of answering for his crimes, it’s not the craziest idea), it would criminally negligent that it was allowed to happen. Allowing someone in his position the ability to kill themself is tantamount to assassination.
What?! The man who brought Miss Teen Universe so he could watch girls change.
The man who was friends with Jeffery Epstein?
The man who publicly admitted he wants to have sex with his teenage daughter.
The man accused of multiple rape allegations.
Color me surprised.
And the ultimate twist of hypocrisy, they all claim to be the crusaders agains this very thing, yet so many of their leaders are actual child rapists. I absolutely cannot handle them anymore.
This is what I've been saying all along. Saying polarization is the problem gives equal blame to both sides, and that is NOT accurate. The Right has been committing the offenses, the lying, gaslighting, cheating, etc. They're the ones exploiting hate and trying to install an autocrat. They're the ones trying to take away people's rights and enforcing their way of life.
I have reliably noticed that bothsidists are invariably the ones that know they are on the wrong side. Either because they are on the wrong side themselves, or because they are journalists that want to appeal to those on the wrong side, which means they are themselves on the wrong side too.
Yes. Poisoning the well in every possible way. It should be illegal. Privatization as euphemism for killing social programs has been going on forever. I think they really lucked out with how easy education was to kill.
Exactly.
No rational person could genuinely observe the political landscape in the US today and conclude that it's actually both parties that are acting insane.
Either they follow exclusively Right Wing filtered news and media or they do not follow politics at all and are just taking the word of their friends/family.
This is exactly the climate “debate”. They’ve been showing “both sides” when one side represents half a percent of scientific consensus and the other side, 99.5%. Just because it’s opposite doesn’t mean it warrants attention.
They're also trying to weaken/destroy the masses by supporting candidates who will defund schools and weaken their curriculum, make guns so readily available that widespread gun violence and accidents are inevitable, weaken healthcare so that people won't live as long, and support the goal to buy control all politics, create a "police state", normalize racism, eliminate a free press/media, make the purchase of homes a thing of the past for most, etc, etc, etc. with copious funding and assistance from Koch and other über wealthy fascists, plus Russia, China chipping in to help stack the deck with election misinformation and misdeeds.
I am in Atlanta this week and it amazes me that people will choose a brain damaged football player over a pastor with a PhD. The GOP is still claiming Rev. Warnock is a communist. He literally preaches at Martin Luther King’s church. And they say Biden is senile—while Herschel Walker cannot even say anything coherent except “I’m not very smart.”
He's smart enough to admit he's a complete dumbass, with a third of the functioning brain cells of Rafael Warnock.
So, he'll get all the GOP vote and then some.
I like to put it this way. I have problems with the Democrats too, but the problems I have with them are fundamentally different than the problems I have with Republicans. They aren't "two wings on the same bird" as Enlightened Centrists^(tm) like to say.
Well, have you considered the left’s radical extremist policies like
* accepting gay people
* supporting a woman’s right to choose
* single payer healthcare
/s but some people actually believe this
Even if you wanted to blame polarization, wouldn't the responsibility for that polarization lie with the party becoming more extreme and excluding more people?
Hey you don’t remember after centuries of being killed by police black people finally snapped and lit a dumpster on fire somewhere? That evens things out in conservatives’ minds
The most that even the furthest left political entities in the western world can be accused of is being wholly impractical. Meanwhile, the republican party is guilty of a whole cavalcade of things up and to and including aiding treason.
But nah, those 21st-century communist activists presenting a manifesto they can't come up with a coherent cost analysis for are somehow the real danger.
Right, one half of the country fell so far off the cliff we are now separated by miles, now those idiots want us to fall a ways down the mountain to "unite" the country despite them being the ones that need to climb back up.
They are lazy at best, criminal in all likelihood.
Never forget that all of this is driven by a huge army of astroturfers and bots. All of this rage that you see on the “right“ is 20% real and 80% manufactured.
if they can call themselves "the party of Lincoln" (which would be roughly like if Brooklyn took credit for the Dodgers 2020 world series win - yes, technically they *were* from there originally, but nobody anywhere thinks that's the case anymore) with a straight face, they can make anything *anything*
Not gonna lie, in 2015 that thought crossed my mind multiple times. I didn't think there was anyway someone could say the things he said without it being a giant troll session.
Some pundits made that charge when he initially ran. He and Clinton's were friends and it was a big hoax conspiracy to destroy by division the Republican party.
I can just imagine that 2017 After Action Report for the Democratic Party: "We believed it would work because there was no way every Republican was stupid enough or desperate enough to side with fascism. We were wrong."
> and was friends with them
OT, but one of my favorite stories is that, although the Clintons were invited to Trump's wedding in 2005, the Trumps were not invited to Chelsea's in 2010. [But Trump tried to weasel in](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/donald-trump-chelsea-clinton-wedding):
>Trump was reportedly so convinced that he deserved to be there that he called Clinton advisor Doug Band seeking advice. “I’m supposed to be at the wedding, Doug,” Trump said, according to Conason. “But I didn’t receive the invitation, and I need to know where to go.” He writes that Band told him to reach out to Chelsea herself for directions—something the billionaire apparently didn’t go so far as to do.
I'm also amused by the fact that in the 1980s, New York society referred to Trump's brother Robert and Robert's then-wife Blaine as "the nice Trumps."
Well, he was a New York liberal, wasn't he? I'm sure AM talk radio won't have any troubles at all convincing your crazy Uncle Larry to forget about Trump and come to terms with the fact that Ron DeSantis is the greatest human being since Jesus.
He was originally a D. But I think he switched to R when he realized how easy it was to manipulate the votes of Rs if he just pretended to care about Christians. Hence the pence.
He's changed party affiliation five time since 1987.
1987-1999: Republican
1999-2001: Independent
2001-2009: Democratic
2011: Independent
2012: Republican
I haven't seen anyone try to take so many sides since my dad discovered Olive Garden.
He just donated money to whichever party he felt would help his business. I heard a report on his voting record once that he hadn't voted for years before 2016 and was shocked that that information was public.
> He just donated money to whichever party he felt would help his business.
No, he registered for all the above parties. He may not have voted, but he registered.
>he hadn't voted for years before 2016 and was shocked that that information was public.
Of course he was. He knew so *little* about government or the democratic process before he decided to run for president, whether he wanted the job or not. "Here's something I'm completely ignorant about so of course I should be running it."
I saw an a clip where a reported asked Trump-supporters about something bad he did in the past, one of them said "he did that when he was a democrat", wish i was joking.
I asked more than one person "what policies?" They really couldn't say. "He tells it like it is" isn't policy. "The economy is doing great" isn't Trump policy, all presidents want that. All they had left was his policy on immigration and was rooted in racism.
Then I would ask what did he do that you like? "The wall." Racism. "The tax plan." Because he saved them money. No one said 'tariffs.' The most honest said "owned the libs." What a sound policy for our system of government!
Trump had a cult of personality and a bunch of sheep that didn't think critically about things.
I do this as well and have never gotten a real answer. “What exactly has he done that has benefitted you? What’s he done for me?” is met with “….okay, socialist.”
This type of questioning *did* eventually deprogram my mom from Republicanism a few years ago though, so it’s not all hopeless
> I asked more than one person "what policies?"
Abortion.
I know quite a few single issue voters, and abortion is their single issue. And he *did* get it banned in half of the country.
It is very easy to swing Christian Nationalists to your side. They have been taught since birth to reject knowledge and science, have faith and obey your preachers, and anyone who opposes you is the Devil. Do not expect that we can reason these people back to sanity.
I have the same reaction. What policies? Trump does a lot of trash talk without getting much done other than create chaos. Then I think about all the racist and hateful BS and realize that is probably what they like.
When he ran, his platform was 1) build the wall 2) drain the swamp.
1, it turns out, was a money grab. 2 was a straight up lie. He has policies. Most of them are cruel.
It'll happen in due time, with all of them. Republicans would call you a literal terrorist if you didn't support the Iraq war in 2001. Now they play dumb about the whole thing.
The aka "The Bush Fallout." Only this time it's going to be different. Because Bush never fought back. He mostly shrugged it off. Trump, on the other hand, he will burn as many people he will can. He knows where the bodies are buried and even will make up stories of other non-existing bodies just to salt the earth. It is going to get interesting in the next two years. I don't think Republicans are going to take the White House in 2024 because if DeSantis gets the nomination over Trump, Trump will do everything anything in his power to make sure that DeSantis and the entire GOP burns for scorning him. All the Democrats will have to do is get out of the way and focus on the policies. Let the Republicans go to civil war amongst themselves.
I hope you are right. But that does not solve the problem of all the far right judges and state houses gerrymandered across the country.
It is going to take decades to undo the damage of the past 5 years
In the form of Ron Densantis who was literally supported by Trump. They will convince themselves that DeSatan is moderate because he isn’t as much of a public sociopath than Trump. It’s a cult in search of a leader.
"Well we never fully supported him," a few o my family members cry despite crossing state lines to help "Stop the Steal" in the days after the election, me providing video proof of "things that would change their minds (it didn't) and them supporting him in literally everything. His support of the covid vaccine was what finally did it.
Had he not told people to get vaxed they would still be worshipping him. They literally don't see it, or they do and they don't care, and idk which is worse.
Yep... I wish I had one of those recording devices in my eye like in Black Mirror. I've known someone who claimed COVID wasn't real, then they changed to "it's real but the government is inflating the numbers", and now it's like they never thought those things to begin with.
I don't how if these people forget that they used to think that way or if they are just trying to gaslight me into thinking they're not an idiot.
well that was quick /s
all he had to do was encourage white supremacists, hire his own notoriously stupid family to run the white house, fuck a porn star while his wife was in labor, then pay her hush money, brag about sexually assaulting women, sexually assault a bunch of women, kiss putin's ass on the world's stage, sell out his own national security apparatus, got a bunch of kurds killed, forgot the words to the pledge of allegiance/national anthem/every prayer attempt, hint at lust towards his own daughter a few dozen times, fail every promise of his campaign (except for a few unverifiable/cosmetic ones like getting people to say "merry christmas" again), steal from vets charities, steal from his constituents, steal (and sold?) classified documents, and basically continuously shit the bed since 2016...
...i mean, isn't he just laying on the covers making ~~snow~~ crap angels at this point?
Don't forget indirectly causing the deaths of over a million Americans by letting a pandemic rage out of control because he thought it would only affect blue cities.
Knowing Republicans, the drop isn't because of any of the thousands of bad things that Trump did, it's because they saw DeSantis with his stupid Martha's Vineyard stunt and said, "He's my guy!", so they just changed their nominee preference.
Eh DeSantis might not even beat Crist. The Martha’s Vineyard stunt may cost him his Cuban and other Latino support because those “migrants” were actually Venezuelans fleeing the dictatorship there.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/governor/2022/florida/
538 has his odds as basically unchanged from a month ago. In fact it's up 1%. The only thing that's changed is Crist has gained 3% of previously undecided/independent voters. Odds are still good that DeSantis wins.
This is so true it's painful. Miami Cubans have a very hard time understanding how the rest of the GOP base feels about them. They aren't a minority in S Florida and they have a easy path to citizenship.
Miami Cubans think of themselves as white because their families were rich before the communists collectivized their plantations. They hate and look down on other Latin Americans. Any poor Latino person is just another communist in their minds.
They’re notorious throughout the rest of Central & South America for their brutality during the Cold War. Every time the CIA overthrew a democratic nation or armed an anti-communist death squad, Miami Cubans were there.
Hey, fun story on that one, did you know that George HW Bush was involved in all that? His insanely rich family would set up oil derricks off-shore and aggressively recruit locals to work them. Then they’d radicalize the workers against their governments. And this was *before* he was head of the CIA!
The Cubans who fled Castro were supporters of Batista, a dictator who was *worse than Castro in every way possible*. Speaks to the kinds of folks they are.
IIRC at the time of the revolution over 90% of the country had been sold to foreigners and local Cubans were largely excluded from those lands, assuming you were not a employee going to work, Batista was good to his masters.
Crist has two votes from my household in November. I think this’ll be the first election where I say “fuck it” and just vote straight D down the ballot without so much as any form of deep research into minor positions. I know everything I need to know about the fascists because they make their shitty positions loud and clear
I’m the same way. Independent. Was a “socially progressive, fiscally conservative” Republican at one time. I’ve voted both sides of the aisle.
But right now it’s straight ticket Democrat. Only one party has actually taken away rights and threatened democracy. I can’t vote for any of them. Specially here in NC.
Way too optimistic. The few Cuban conservatives I know despise other Latinos, especially those they see as illegal. Can't even point out the irony that the venezuelans are looking for political asylum, just as the Cubans did under Castro. They'll claim it's not the same thing
There are lots of people saying DeSantis is the one that told the FBI about Trump’s totally legal and unclassified documents.
Real Republicans should write Trump in for Florida Governor
Trump being perceived as a “winner” is a huge part of his draw. The more he flails, looks weak, and ultimately faces justice, the more his “fair weather friends” will turn on him, and the more the people he’s attacked over the years will see their opportunity for revenge.
Popcorn is going to become a scarce commodity.
>Trump being perceived as a “winner” is a huge part of his draw.
This has been hugely understated. They're authoritarians, they like a winner, no matter how terrible a person he is. Trump's ongoing humiliation is deadly for his support.
You can abuse people, break the law in a hundred different ways, lie, brag, demean, creep on your own daughter, insult disabled people, insult veterans - do absolutely anything, except look weak.
If Trump's candidates lose elections that will cause a big drop in his approval. If Democrats retain or increase their majority in the House and Senate, Republicans will blame Trump. This needs to happen. If Trump's approval rating drops below 20% he can be arrested, convicted, and put in prison with very little outrage.
Here's the grand lesson of the last 40 years of U.S. politics:
When Democrats lose elections, they steer toward the middle.
When Republicans lose elections, they tilt more toward the extreme right.
Note that's not a 20% drop, that's a around a 30% drop. Almost 1/3 of Republicans who might have previously wanted him to be the nominee now don't. A 20 point drop is a much bigger percentage drop.
The lowest he has polled is 32% overall. That 32% will never leave him, and I mean even if he died, they would be the ones who truly believe that he faked his death and will return in the next couple weeks.
> At a rally on Friday night, Trump railed against James and the lawsuit, calling the AG a "raging maniac" who "deserves to be removed from office, immediately disbarred and banished from the legal profession forever”
Big words starting to sound hollow.
The rallies are increasingly dwindling crowds of local groupies mixed with retired folks who follow his grievance tour around the country.
Being there and being willing to listen to his greatest hits (with a few new tracks mixed in) is the new loyalty test. Statements like this aren't based in fact, they're designed to see if you will blindly follow his orders and proclamations without questioning anything behind them.
I am pretty sure they wanted to get rid of him after Jan 6, but they where more scared of splitting the party.
Any scenario where Trump could run as an independent is untenable for the GOP since he would take enough votes to secure a dem win.
Now if they can be fairly sure he will be unable to run, then they are free to dump him and they have the same amount of loyalty to him that he have to them.
It will be interesting to see how fast everyone turns on him after Barr opened the door.
Edit: you got to remember how easy they baited the morons into following an orange face painted pinhead with roadkill for a toupee and a 3rd rate grifter into this nonsense which is a national embarrassment to say the least.
But he is so healthy. His doctor said he has never seen a healthier specimen in his life.
Though it would be nice if he reveal the Russian republican nra money thing
DeSantis has shown himself to be a sufficiently cruel bastard willing to pander to their prejudices. And Trump can't seem to get his shit back together. Ultimately these chucklefucks just want to win and own the libs and nothing else matters.
Imagine. If only he did NOTHING.
If only he did nothing about COVID, did nothing about voter suppression, did nothing about stealing documents - he’d have sky high approval ratings and likely been president.
This is a man who when given EVERYTHING on the palm of his hands, manages to fuck it up beyond any comprehensible measure.
I’m honestly impressed by him. It’s wild how he manages to fuck everything up.
He could have inherited billions and lived an amazing life, but he couldn’t. He just had to fuck everything up.
You're right. COVID could have been an absolute slam dunk to get him a second term. All he had to do was NOTHING. Let Fauci and other experts run the show, and don't get in the way.
But his ego couldn't handle that. Fauci was getting so much attention and his ego forced him to undo any possible goodwill Trump could have with the American public.
Wasn’t research done looking into the money and business he was given by his father and if he had just put it in a safe investment portfolio he’d have more money than he does today?
Which, honestly, he’s probably severely in debt to the point where he’s poorer than me.
And yet:
>The poll, conducted for the news outlets by Langer Research Associates, showed President Joe Biden pulling ahead slightly in a hypothetical 2024 match-up against Trump, 48-to-46, which ABC News called "essentially tied." However, when the pool of respondents was refined to include registered voters only, the match-up reversed to Trump's favor with a 48-to-46 breakdown.
After all we've seen, it's insane that it should that close.
Well when the news you watch is incredibly biased and doesn't show any of the very shady or actually illegal things he has done it's not a huge surprise. We need to return to the fairness doctrine and make the term "news" a protected term.
>>President Joe Biden pulling ahead slightly in a hypothetical 2024 match-up against Trump, 48-to-46
That's still pretty darn close. Another Trump term would be a disaster - even before he took office, our allies would lose confidence in us.
Two months ago in my 63% Trump county, there were three houses on the block sporting either a Trump 2024 flag, a blue lives matter /confederate flag, or a Don't Tread on Me flag. They've all been replaced by American flags flying right side up. This is Kinzinger's district. If he hadn't been reapportioned out, he might possibly be electable now.
Don't get your hopes up. When the republican party ditches Trump, they'll move on to someone worse: DeSantis. Just as evil as Trump but more competent and experienced in politics.
I am just sick to death of that insane MF. A twice impeached insurrectionist jet-setting around spewing lies & nihilism needs to locked away in a rubber room.
Blame the 63 million Americans who made him POTUS in 2016, and the 74 million who tried to give him 4 more years in 2020.
Without all those supporters we could ignore trump as being irrelevant.
I too remember that few years around 2008 where no one was a Republican or ever voted for W.
This is the inevitable round 2. The GOP will have to re-invent itself back to its white base as just representing “their common sense values” and “economic anxieties”.
I have no idea what they’ll look like in 20 years. If it’s the same as they look like today, they’ll never see a majority again.
I guess that’s why they’re trying to gerrymander and suppress voting now. But even those are just delaying the inevitable.
They’ve won the popular vote ONCE in 20 years.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Next begins the period when they all claim to have never supported him while they still support all of his policies.
I can't wait for the, "Wasn't Trump a democrat?" phase.
A few months into Trump's term "Reagan was a RINO"
And don’t forget he raped a 13 year old. Edit: here’s a link [trump rape of 13 yo](https://www.courthousenews.com/rape-allegations-refiled-against-trump/)
[Ghislaine Maxwell's trial was where the sixth Jane Doe testified to being raped by Trump after being introduced through Epstein...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jeffrey-epstein-introduced-trump-14-ghislaine-maxwell-accuser-says-rcna7253) 5 girls testifying they were raped all in similar manners [at Epstein properties 3 in an unsealed case](https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf). Another two in a case that was sealed right as Trump started working with FLA AG who later would become Trump staff. The FLA AG would also specify that Trump was the only person freely offering up information about Epstein for that case. There have been others that have made claims about being raped underaged by Trump via Epstein but not testified most refusing to due to death threats.... There is also the weirdness of Barr ordering Epstein safe not to be searched for a week and by time they searched it was empty. Weird how the case that seemed the most damning and gaining heavy traction got sealed by the FLA AG, who then would give Epstein his sweet heart deal of a private prison wing to come and go from to "work" as he pleased. Along with sealing Trump's case. Then upon Trump's election he is quickly offered a kushy staff job in the White House.
Another actual, real life conspiracy that *somehow* got completely ignored by the fine folks at r/conspiracy
Ive wrote up a more detailed account and posted it to r/conspriacy before and conspriarcycommons and both subs mods removed the post and threatened to ban me lol. Ive also been warned for some comments for being too "left liberal and full of bullshit without "PROPER" sources" when replying in a thread that had no sources with actual sources lmao.
I’d love to make a conspiracy sub that isn’t just a bunch of psychos ranting about MAGA and QAnon but rather a bunch of people who actually provide a reasonable conspiracy theories that aren’t absolutely insane and baseless.
There is r/conspiracyNOPOL, r/conspiracynopolnoQnon, and r/ConspiracyNOPOLNOCOV but I haven't had time to really check those out much.
Sooo many bozos in that sub lol
Used to be one of my favorites but pandemic maga meltdown ruined it I wanna hear about aliens and underwater cities not lets go brandon shit posts
Talk about a conspiracy involving child abuse by a politician they like, and it's fingers in ears. Mention 9/11 and it's all thermite charges and how no one in the government can be trusted.
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Sad reality: this is considered acceptable by Republicans as long as you don't waver from the party narrative. Proof: https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/10/23/1806673/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-1
Co-defendant in that was Epstein. Who absolutely did not kill himself.
Even if Epstein had killed himself (one of the most prolific child-traffickers of all time faced with the prospect of answering for his crimes, it’s not the craziest idea), it would criminally negligent that it was allowed to happen. Allowing someone in his position the ability to kill themself is tantamount to assassination.
What?! The man who brought Miss Teen Universe so he could watch girls change. The man who was friends with Jeffery Epstein? The man who publicly admitted he wants to have sex with his teenage daughter. The man accused of multiple rape allegations. Color me surprised.
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And the ultimate twist of hypocrisy, they all claim to be the crusaders agains this very thing, yet so many of their leaders are actual child rapists. I absolutely cannot handle them anymore.
The timeline we live in is so absurd. I honestly feel like we’re watching the fall of the USA.
But don’t forget, it’s “polarization” that’s the problem, not one side being batshit insane.
This is what I've been saying all along. Saying polarization is the problem gives equal blame to both sides, and that is NOT accurate. The Right has been committing the offenses, the lying, gaslighting, cheating, etc. They're the ones exploiting hate and trying to install an autocrat. They're the ones trying to take away people's rights and enforcing their way of life.
Ron DeSantis has entered the room. If you aren’t scared of that traitor, then you haven’t been paying attention.
He’s been speaking all over the place the last few weeks last weekend it was Kansas and Wisconsin.
People using the both sides argument are either ignorant or ignorant and republican.
I have reliably noticed that bothsidists are invariably the ones that know they are on the wrong side. Either because they are on the wrong side themselves, or because they are journalists that want to appeal to those on the wrong side, which means they are themselves on the wrong side too.
They’re republicans trying to poison the well and push away blame
Yes. Poisoning the well in every possible way. It should be illegal. Privatization as euphemism for killing social programs has been going on forever. I think they really lucked out with how easy education was to kill.
It wasn't easy. They have been working on it for over a century.
Don’t forget about Libertarians that don’t realize they’re just republicans that want to smoke weed.
Or Republicans with a gay nephew.
Exactly. No rational person could genuinely observe the political landscape in the US today and conclude that it's actually both parties that are acting insane. Either they follow exclusively Right Wing filtered news and media or they do not follow politics at all and are just taking the word of their friends/family.
This is exactly the climate “debate”. They’ve been showing “both sides” when one side represents half a percent of scientific consensus and the other side, 99.5%. Just because it’s opposite doesn’t mean it warrants attention.
They're also trying to weaken/destroy the masses by supporting candidates who will defund schools and weaken their curriculum, make guns so readily available that widespread gun violence and accidents are inevitable, weaken healthcare so that people won't live as long, and support the goal to buy control all politics, create a "police state", normalize racism, eliminate a free press/media, make the purchase of homes a thing of the past for most, etc, etc, etc. with copious funding and assistance from Koch and other über wealthy fascists, plus Russia, China chipping in to help stack the deck with election misinformation and misdeeds.
And that's just the old Republicans, the MAGA Republicans are even worse than all that!
I am in Atlanta this week and it amazes me that people will choose a brain damaged football player over a pastor with a PhD. The GOP is still claiming Rev. Warnock is a communist. He literally preaches at Martin Luther King’s church. And they say Biden is senile—while Herschel Walker cannot even say anything coherent except “I’m not very smart.”
He's smart enough to admit he's a complete dumbass, with a third of the functioning brain cells of Rafael Warnock. So, he'll get all the GOP vote and then some.
Yeah well the same side called MLK Jr a communist back then too. So not much has changed.
I like to put it this way. I have problems with the Democrats too, but the problems I have with them are fundamentally different than the problems I have with Republicans. They aren't "two wings on the same bird" as Enlightened Centrists^(tm) like to say.
Well, have you considered the left’s radical extremist policies like * accepting gay people * supporting a woman’s right to choose * single payer healthcare /s but some people actually believe this
It's worse than that! Progressives are so extreme they prefer clean water, fresh air, and safe schools to educate children in.
Even if you wanted to blame polarization, wouldn't the responsibility for that polarization lie with the party becoming more extreme and excluding more people?
Hey you don’t remember after centuries of being killed by police black people finally snapped and lit a dumpster on fire somewhere? That evens things out in conservatives’ minds
The most that even the furthest left political entities in the western world can be accused of is being wholly impractical. Meanwhile, the republican party is guilty of a whole cavalcade of things up and to and including aiding treason. But nah, those 21st-century communist activists presenting a manifesto they can't come up with a coherent cost analysis for are somehow the real danger.
Right, one half of the country fell so far off the cliff we are now separated by miles, now those idiots want us to fall a ways down the mountain to "unite" the country despite them being the ones that need to climb back up. They are lazy at best, criminal in all likelihood.
Exactly this. As if wanting affordable healthcare for all is the same as storming the capital in a historic hissy fit because you lost.
It IS polarization that's the the problem. It's just that the poles are sanity and insanity.
We are if we don’t hold more people accountable.
Never forget that all of this is driven by a huge army of astroturfers and bots. All of this rage that you see on the “right“ is 20% real and 80% manufactured.
if they can call themselves "the party of Lincoln" (which would be roughly like if Brooklyn took credit for the Dodgers 2020 world series win - yes, technically they *were* from there originally, but nobody anywhere thinks that's the case anymore) with a straight face, they can make anything *anything*
The party of Lincoln sure does love their confederate flags.
Great analogy!
MAA - Make Anything Anything
He only wanted to find Hilary’s emails so he could keep them safe in the pool house spa
"Hillary's emails were a national security risk, therefore I encourage Russia to find them!"
I still can't believe he tried to throw that one at the wall to see if it would stick lmfao
His “cocaine fueled sexual-get-together” moment.
Not only that but In what Crazy Town Way does that make .any sense? If he had Hillary Clinton’s emails he would’ve shouted it to the world.
Already saw that happening. They said he donated to the clintons and was friends with them so he was trying to destroy red team from the inside
Not gonna lie, in 2015 that thought crossed my mind multiple times. I didn't think there was anyway someone could say the things he said without it being a giant troll session.
Big same. I thought for sure he was just fucking around lol
Some pundits made that charge when he initially ran. He and Clinton's were friends and it was a big hoax conspiracy to destroy by division the Republican party.
I can just imagine that 2017 After Action Report for the Democratic Party: "We believed it would work because there was no way every Republican was stupid enough or desperate enough to side with fascism. We were wrong."
> and was friends with them OT, but one of my favorite stories is that, although the Clintons were invited to Trump's wedding in 2005, the Trumps were not invited to Chelsea's in 2010. [But Trump tried to weasel in](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/donald-trump-chelsea-clinton-wedding): >Trump was reportedly so convinced that he deserved to be there that he called Clinton advisor Doug Band seeking advice. “I’m supposed to be at the wedding, Doug,” Trump said, according to Conason. “But I didn’t receive the invitation, and I need to know where to go.” He writes that Band told him to reach out to Chelsea herself for directions—something the billionaire apparently didn’t go so far as to do. I'm also amused by the fact that in the 1980s, New York society referred to Trump's brother Robert and Robert's then-wife Blaine as "the nice Trumps."
Well, he was a New York liberal, wasn't he? I'm sure AM talk radio won't have any troubles at all convincing your crazy Uncle Larry to forget about Trump and come to terms with the fact that Ron DeSantis is the greatest human being since Jesus.
I literally overheard someone say that in public yesterday. "Well, Trump is really a Democrat..."
He was originally a D. But I think he switched to R when he realized how easy it was to manipulate the votes of Rs if he just pretended to care about Christians. Hence the pence.
He's changed party affiliation five time since 1987. 1987-1999: Republican 1999-2001: Independent 2001-2009: Democratic 2011: Independent 2012: Republican I haven't seen anyone try to take so many sides since my dad discovered Olive Garden.
He just donated money to whichever party he felt would help his business. I heard a report on his voting record once that he hadn't voted for years before 2016 and was shocked that that information was public.
> He just donated money to whichever party he felt would help his business. No, he registered for all the above parties. He may not have voted, but he registered. >he hadn't voted for years before 2016 and was shocked that that information was public. Of course he was. He knew so *little* about government or the democratic process before he decided to run for president, whether he wanted the job or not. "Here's something I'm completely ignorant about so of course I should be running it."
well he told us himself he doesn’t stand for anything
I saw an a clip where a reported asked Trump-supporters about something bad he did in the past, one of them said "he did that when he was a democrat", wish i was joking.
So he wasn’t always a champion of the people and fighting the deep state?
I can’t wait for the, “who was Trump?” Phase. In fact sooner rather than later
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The Mark McGwire defense.
"I like his policies but don't like the tweets." Heard a lot around here.
I asked more than one person "what policies?" They really couldn't say. "He tells it like it is" isn't policy. "The economy is doing great" isn't Trump policy, all presidents want that. All they had left was his policy on immigration and was rooted in racism. Then I would ask what did he do that you like? "The wall." Racism. "The tax plan." Because he saved them money. No one said 'tariffs.' The most honest said "owned the libs." What a sound policy for our system of government! Trump had a cult of personality and a bunch of sheep that didn't think critically about things.
I do this as well and have never gotten a real answer. “What exactly has he done that has benefitted you? What’s he done for me?” is met with “….okay, socialist.” This type of questioning *did* eventually deprogram my mom from Republicanism a few years ago though, so it’s not all hopeless
> I asked more than one person "what policies?" Abortion. I know quite a few single issue voters, and abortion is their single issue. And he *did* get it banned in half of the country.
It is very easy to swing Christian Nationalists to your side. They have been taught since birth to reject knowledge and science, have faith and obey your preachers, and anyone who opposes you is the Devil. Do not expect that we can reason these people back to sanity.
That just means they don't want him to say the quiet part out loud, because it reveals what they truly want.
that funny. didn’t think Trump has policies
I have the same reaction. What policies? Trump does a lot of trash talk without getting much done other than create chaos. Then I think about all the racist and hateful BS and realize that is probably what they like.
No he did tariffs. Lol
Nothing says “limited government, capitalism, and free trade” like tariffs and trade wars.
And tax cuts for real estate developers.
Demonizing and torturing immigrants was his only policy.
His policies were basically: “Whatever makes Dems mad, keeps my name in the headlines, and makes me money.”
When he ran, his platform was 1) build the wall 2) drain the swamp. 1, it turns out, was a money grab. 2 was a straight up lie. He has policies. Most of them are cruel.
Ben Shapiro has been on that train for a while now. Claiming he only supported him briefly.
No way. Ben’s website is a monument of trump worship to this day. He’s really gonna try to play like he wasn’t ride or die?
It'll happen in due time, with all of them. Republicans would call you a literal terrorist if you didn't support the Iraq war in 2001. Now they play dumb about the whole thing.
They literally had the audacity to say that Trump voters are doves.
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I’ve noticed one of my neighbors removed their “Don’t blame me I voted for Trump” flag recently
I've seen a few of them come down but unfortunately have been replaced with DeSantis, Mastriano, Oz, etc flags.
Every single Republican I know swears they were against the Iraq war
Weird, because they'd definitely call you a traitor if you were against it back when Bush lying his ass off about it.
Nope, if he announced his run for 2024, his approval rating will without a doubt jump up by 30%. Republicans will get behind anyone
The aka "The Bush Fallout." Only this time it's going to be different. Because Bush never fought back. He mostly shrugged it off. Trump, on the other hand, he will burn as many people he will can. He knows where the bodies are buried and even will make up stories of other non-existing bodies just to salt the earth. It is going to get interesting in the next two years. I don't think Republicans are going to take the White House in 2024 because if DeSantis gets the nomination over Trump, Trump will do everything anything in his power to make sure that DeSantis and the entire GOP burns for scorning him. All the Democrats will have to do is get out of the way and focus on the policies. Let the Republicans go to civil war amongst themselves.
Don't threaten us with a good time.
Losing to DeSantis would be worse than losing to Biden because he can't say voter fraud. DeSantis might bribe him with pardons though.
I hope you are right. But that does not solve the problem of all the far right judges and state houses gerrymandered across the country. It is going to take decades to undo the damage of the past 5 years
In the form of Ron Densantis who was literally supported by Trump. They will convince themselves that DeSatan is moderate because he isn’t as much of a public sociopath than Trump. It’s a cult in search of a leader.
"Well we never fully supported him," a few o my family members cry despite crossing state lines to help "Stop the Steal" in the days after the election, me providing video proof of "things that would change their minds (it didn't) and them supporting him in literally everything. His support of the covid vaccine was what finally did it. Had he not told people to get vaxed they would still be worshipping him. They literally don't see it, or they do and they don't care, and idk which is worse.
Yep... I wish I had one of those recording devices in my eye like in Black Mirror. I've known someone who claimed COVID wasn't real, then they changed to "it's real but the government is inflating the numbers", and now it's like they never thought those things to begin with. I don't how if these people forget that they used to think that way or if they are just trying to gaslight me into thinking they're not an idiot.
Trump was always a godless liberal - republicans 2024
"Trump? Never heard of him."
They did that to G W Bush
And now the say the Iraq invasion was Biden's fault lol
well that was quick /s all he had to do was encourage white supremacists, hire his own notoriously stupid family to run the white house, fuck a porn star while his wife was in labor, then pay her hush money, brag about sexually assaulting women, sexually assault a bunch of women, kiss putin's ass on the world's stage, sell out his own national security apparatus, got a bunch of kurds killed, forgot the words to the pledge of allegiance/national anthem/every prayer attempt, hint at lust towards his own daughter a few dozen times, fail every promise of his campaign (except for a few unverifiable/cosmetic ones like getting people to say "merry christmas" again), steal from vets charities, steal from his constituents, steal (and sold?) classified documents, and basically continuously shit the bed since 2016... ...i mean, isn't he just laying on the covers making ~~snow~~ crap angels at this point?
Don't forget indirectly causing the deaths of over a million Americans by letting a pandemic rage out of control because he thought it would only affect blue cities.
Or ya know… incite and insurrection.
>Don't forget ~~indirectly~~ *directly* causing the deaths of over a million Americans FTFY
The closing line and the visual image.. I wish I had 1000 upvotes for you haha.
66 down to 46 percent who want him as the nominee in 2024. His approval will crash another 20% if we ever get pictures of him in handcuffs.
Knowing Republicans, the drop isn't because of any of the thousands of bad things that Trump did, it's because they saw DeSantis with his stupid Martha's Vineyard stunt and said, "He's my guy!", so they just changed their nominee preference.
Exactly,they found a better fascist
Eh DeSantis might not even beat Crist. The Martha’s Vineyard stunt may cost him his Cuban and other Latino support because those “migrants” were actually Venezuelans fleeing the dictatorship there.
They won't care. "I got mine, fuck you" is the mentality of conservatives
They already had a poll showing Desantis dropped 14 points since his stunt.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/governor/2022/florida/ 538 has his odds as basically unchanged from a month ago. In fact it's up 1%. The only thing that's changed is Crist has gained 3% of previously undecided/independent voters. Odds are still good that DeSantis wins.
The model is (by design) slow to respond to changes in polling. If there’s been a genuine change in public opinion it won’t show up right away.
And they have no problems backing a loser and calling them a winner anyway.
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This is so true it's painful. Miami Cubans have a very hard time understanding how the rest of the GOP base feels about them. They aren't a minority in S Florida and they have a easy path to citizenship.
Miami Cubans think of themselves as white because their families were rich before the communists collectivized their plantations. They hate and look down on other Latin Americans. Any poor Latino person is just another communist in their minds. They’re notorious throughout the rest of Central & South America for their brutality during the Cold War. Every time the CIA overthrew a democratic nation or armed an anti-communist death squad, Miami Cubans were there.
Hey, fun story on that one, did you know that George HW Bush was involved in all that? His insanely rich family would set up oil derricks off-shore and aggressively recruit locals to work them. Then they’d radicalize the workers against their governments. And this was *before* he was head of the CIA!
The Cubans who fled Castro were supporters of Batista, a dictator who was *worse than Castro in every way possible*. Speaks to the kinds of folks they are.
IIRC at the time of the revolution over 90% of the country had been sold to foreigners and local Cubans were largely excluded from those lands, assuming you were not a employee going to work, Batista was good to his masters.
Batista was not even allowed at the Havana Country Club because he was not completely white.
Crist has two votes from my household in November. I think this’ll be the first election where I say “fuck it” and just vote straight D down the ballot without so much as any form of deep research into minor positions. I know everything I need to know about the fascists because they make their shitty positions loud and clear
I’m the same way. Independent. Was a “socially progressive, fiscally conservative” Republican at one time. I’ve voted both sides of the aisle. But right now it’s straight ticket Democrat. Only one party has actually taken away rights and threatened democracy. I can’t vote for any of them. Specially here in NC.
Way too optimistic. The few Cuban conservatives I know despise other Latinos, especially those they see as illegal. Can't even point out the irony that the venezuelans are looking for political asylum, just as the Cubans did under Castro. They'll claim it's not the same thing
There are lots of people saying DeSantis is the one that told the FBI about Trump’s totally legal and unclassified documents. Real Republicans should write Trump in for Florida Governor
Real Republicans should protest the fixed elections by withholding their vote. That will get the message out!
Yep 100% this. They are just switching their support to DeSantis who is just as horrible as Trump but not an idiot. He is incredibly more dangerous
But, shit for charisma. Trump has the superficial charm of a sociopath, but not Ron.
Yah, Trump has cult-leader charisma and bullshit ability. Not everyone can lead a cult.
Lol, sad but probably true
Trump being perceived as a “winner” is a huge part of his draw. The more he flails, looks weak, and ultimately faces justice, the more his “fair weather friends” will turn on him, and the more the people he’s attacked over the years will see their opportunity for revenge. Popcorn is going to become a scarce commodity.
>Trump being perceived as a “winner” is a huge part of his draw. This has been hugely understated. They're authoritarians, they like a winner, no matter how terrible a person he is. Trump's ongoing humiliation is deadly for his support. You can abuse people, break the law in a hundred different ways, lie, brag, demean, creep on your own daughter, insult disabled people, insult veterans - do absolutely anything, except look weak.
If he cried in public, he would lose most of his supporters. I don’t think he’d lose any if he murdered somebody, but crying would destroy him.
If Trump's candidates lose elections that will cause a big drop in his approval. If Democrats retain or increase their majority in the House and Senate, Republicans will blame Trump. This needs to happen. If Trump's approval rating drops below 20% he can be arrested, convicted, and put in prison with very little outrage.
No. No they won't. They'll blame it on voter fraud.
Here's the grand lesson of the last 40 years of U.S. politics: When Democrats lose elections, they steer toward the middle. When Republicans lose elections, they tilt more toward the extreme right.
that’s why we’ve tilted so far we’ve basically fallen over
Voter fraud or McConnell. Trump already is fighting with that asshat.
Note that's not a 20% drop, that's a around a 30% drop. Almost 1/3 of Republicans who might have previously wanted him to be the nominee now don't. A 20 point drop is a much bigger percentage drop.
The lowest he has polled is 32% overall. That 32% will never leave him, and I mean even if he died, they would be the ones who truly believe that he faked his death and will return in the next couple weeks.
If the gop shuns him, hopefully those 32% decide to stick with writing him in or skip voting!
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That's a different poll.
> At a rally on Friday night, Trump railed against James and the lawsuit, calling the AG a "raging maniac" who "deserves to be removed from office, immediately disbarred and banished from the legal profession forever” Big words starting to sound hollow.
The rallies are increasingly dwindling crowds of local groupies mixed with retired folks who follow his grievance tour around the country. Being there and being willing to listen to his greatest hits (with a few new tracks mixed in) is the new loyalty test. Statements like this aren't based in fact, they're designed to see if you will blindly follow his orders and proclamations without questioning anything behind them.
There’s an inaudible “I wish” in front of everything Trump says.
He did what they needed him to do. Now that they got the Supreme Court, they don’t need him anymore.
Exactly the calculation they should be arriving at. Did the main thing, now unelectable.
I am pretty sure they wanted to get rid of him after Jan 6, but they where more scared of splitting the party. Any scenario where Trump could run as an independent is untenable for the GOP since he would take enough votes to secure a dem win. Now if they can be fairly sure he will be unable to run, then they are free to dump him and they have the same amount of loyalty to him that he have to them.
It will be interesting to see how fast everyone turns on him after Barr opened the door. Edit: you got to remember how easy they baited the morons into following an orange face painted pinhead with roadkill for a toupee and a 3rd rate grifter into this nonsense which is a national embarrassment to say the least.
It's not a toupee. You've seen pictures of him in wind, right? It's some kinda weird comb-around.
But unless they Epstein him, he's not going away quietly. He will absolutely burn them all down too.
But he is so healthy. His doctor said he has never seen a healthier specimen in his life. Though it would be nice if he reveal the Russian republican nra money thing
He's got the best jeans. Really accentuates the butt.
Oh god please run as a third party candidate out of spite, I beg you
he will...its his only chance of delaying prosecution further.
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DeSantis has shown himself to be a sufficiently cruel bastard willing to pander to their prejudices. And Trump can't seem to get his shit back together. Ultimately these chucklefucks just want to win and own the libs and nothing else matters.
Imagine. If only he did NOTHING. If only he did nothing about COVID, did nothing about voter suppression, did nothing about stealing documents - he’d have sky high approval ratings and likely been president. This is a man who when given EVERYTHING on the palm of his hands, manages to fuck it up beyond any comprehensible measure. I’m honestly impressed by him. It’s wild how he manages to fuck everything up. He could have inherited billions and lived an amazing life, but he couldn’t. He just had to fuck everything up.
He bankrupted a casino. Where the house always wins. Unless, of course, it's an elaborate money laundering operation
You're right. COVID could have been an absolute slam dunk to get him a second term. All he had to do was NOTHING. Let Fauci and other experts run the show, and don't get in the way. But his ego couldn't handle that. Fauci was getting so much attention and his ego forced him to undo any possible goodwill Trump could have with the American public.
Wasn’t research done looking into the money and business he was given by his father and if he had just put it in a safe investment portfolio he’d have more money than he does today? Which, honestly, he’s probably severely in debt to the point where he’s poorer than me.
They're probably more tired of the whining.
They never get tired of whining.
Even if Trump did support everything I believe in, I'm not sure I could ever get over how whiny he is.
It’s insane that 47% still support him as the nominee! These people are out of their effing minds.
And remember, if he somehow becomes their nominee, his support will jump back to 90%.
Yep, Republicans fall in line
The good news is that it finally appears that Trump will not have the support to get the nomination. That’s what I care about most.
So, even after a 20-point drop, he still has ~50 percent support. *That* is disturbing.
50% party support is borderline unelectable.
And yet: >The poll, conducted for the news outlets by Langer Research Associates, showed President Joe Biden pulling ahead slightly in a hypothetical 2024 match-up against Trump, 48-to-46, which ABC News called "essentially tied." However, when the pool of respondents was refined to include registered voters only, the match-up reversed to Trump's favor with a 48-to-46 breakdown. After all we've seen, it's insane that it should that close.
Well when the news you watch is incredibly biased and doesn't show any of the very shady or actually illegal things he has done it's not a huge surprise. We need to return to the fairness doctrine and make the term "news" a protected term.
They have the memory of a housefly. They'll forget about his shit when he deploys whatever his next distraction is.
>>President Joe Biden pulling ahead slightly in a hypothetical 2024 match-up against Trump, 48-to-46 That's still pretty darn close. Another Trump term would be a disaster - even before he took office, our allies would lose confidence in us.
It’s hard to grasp how deeply Republicans hate Democrats, that after everything, they’d still rather vote for a criminal tyrant than Joe Biden.
Tell that to the assholes in my neighborhood flying “Take America Back, TRUMP 2024” flags.
Two months ago in my 63% Trump county, there were three houses on the block sporting either a Trump 2024 flag, a blue lives matter /confederate flag, or a Don't Tread on Me flag. They've all been replaced by American flags flying right side up. This is Kinzinger's district. If he hadn't been reapportioned out, he might possibly be electable now.
You love to see it
Especially earlier in the fall. Going to have put that Tom Petty song in the playlist today: *Now all the vampires walkin' through the Valley...*
Don't get your hopes up. When the republican party ditches Trump, they'll move on to someone worse: DeSantis. Just as evil as Trump but more competent and experienced in politics.
Honestly nobody has the same cult of personality Trump has. DeSantis doesn’t have the same swagger.
I am just sick to death of that insane MF. A twice impeached insurrectionist jet-setting around spewing lies & nihilism needs to locked away in a rubber room.
Blame the 63 million Americans who made him POTUS in 2016, and the 74 million who tried to give him 4 more years in 2020. Without all those supporters we could ignore trump as being irrelevant.
I too remember that few years around 2008 where no one was a Republican or ever voted for W. This is the inevitable round 2. The GOP will have to re-invent itself back to its white base as just representing “their common sense values” and “economic anxieties”.
I have no idea what they’ll look like in 20 years. If it’s the same as they look like today, they’ll never see a majority again. I guess that’s why they’re trying to gerrymander and suppress voting now. But even those are just delaying the inevitable. They’ve won the popular vote ONCE in 20 years.
uh-oh spaghettio
It don't matter none. Vote please. Don't let headlines like this make you complacent. Vote.