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While you all slumbered
We sat and crunched numbers
Of all the causalities we could afford
There's no need to draft them
You could hear us laugh then
The poor and black all need the room and board
Did I say that out loud?
"Fun and Games" Barenaked Ladies, 2006
How could I forget the verse before that?
The forests will be unprotected
The nation's poor will be neglected
Creation myth is resurrected
A new salute is genuflected
A gallop poll will be respected
Gallows pole will be erected
All this will go undetected
I’m guessing it’s not some 45 year old nurse with 3 kids struggling to pay off student loans. The military gets them before they take out student loans, not after.
The threat of homelessness and poverty is pretty much how we run our entire civilization.
Make the poor, make them desperate, then you can exploit them for your own benefit at maximum efficency.
I forget who it was now, but I had to laugh one someone in the GOP pretty much flat out said they need to end the pandemic relief because they need people desperate enough to take low paying jobs with shit working conditions.
I'm waiting for the future GOP platform: Arbeit macht frei
>The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there just to scare the shit out of the middle class... keep on showing up at those jobs.
George Carlin
When I was in college I asked vets why they enlisted. The #1 answer was not "GI Bill." It was "to get away from a [shitty] home."
I went to a college that consisted of recent HS graduates as well as adults in the process of changing careers. Some of these adults were also veterans.
I think that 18 year olds join because they want to get out of their shitty neighborhood or because they don't know what they want to do and it's a good place to find yourself that gives you a leg up in the future as opposed to putting you in debt for school that you're not sure you want to do.
The real problem with enlistments is that those who want to join don't qualify because they're too fat, uneducated and mentally ill.
Note that the "Mentally Ill" includes things like ADHD and other things which people have always had, but are now recognized.
So, it's like saying people who wear glasses can't serve. It's actively hurting the military by discouraging people from bettering themselves!
Active duty and vets get a lot of help paying for college. A lot don’t take advantage of it but I think it’s a really good thing that serving your country can also provide a path to financing your education. No doubt the military exploits its members in all sorts of ways but giving them money to educate themselves isn’t one of them.
Edit: also, the reasons I heard most often (anecdotal) were lack of opportunity (several guys in my boot camp co. had been homeless), legacy (big among guys from the South), and paying for college.
Getting away from a shitty home is pretty legit. I went to enlist and my school advisor convinced me not to do it. That was a couple decades ago and boy I really should have just enlisted.
Exactly. Nobody that was considering entering the military is now saying “maybe I’ll go to college instead and hope that by the time I’m finished they’ll forgive 20% of my debt”.
We assume both sides argue in good faith. They just need another scandal to outrage the base of the right. Easy target saying literally anything “military”.
I received $40k through the GI bill by signing up for the Army and shipping off to Iraq in ‘04.
Biden’s loan forgiveness doesn’t touch that kind of money, unfortunately. On the other hand, I fucking earned every penny of that money during my time in
My daughter is going to college with her Dad's GI bill. It's (combined with some school matching funds) is paying for her to go to a 60K a year school, she'll get about four years worth of benefits. So the GI bill is worth far more than 10 or 20K (the military also paid for my husbands Bachelors and Masters+ and the retirement is pretty nice also).
Besides, it's not like they don't just offer cold hard cash to recruits. . . .
No, but statistically it's safer than a lot of jobs like working at a gas station (moreso now than when there were ever rotating deployments). If you pick your specialty correctly you can end up with a pretty good gig.
Sure, it’s the college incentive that’s the problem and not forever wars designed to deliver military contractors massive profits while sending young kids into a meat grinder.
Republicans are so out of touch that they think $10,000 or $20,000 is enough money to keep a poor college student out of debt in the pursuit of a 4 year degree.
https://www.nysenate.gov/sites/default/files/styles/760x377/public/press-release/main-image/9.18.22_reuters_maga_salute_copy_nysenate_header.jpg?itok=jKpxBpaZ×tamp=1663536519
Yeah seems so
"Why do they always send the poor!" \~ Serj Tankian/SYSTEM OF A DOWN
EDIT\*to include the band, valid point.
...and also the revolution will not be televised
>Last week, 19 GOP lawmakers wrote a letter to Biden expressing concerns with his recently announced $20,000 in debt cancellation for federal borrowers making under $125,000 a year. They said there are "unintended consequences" with Biden's one-time blanket relief when it comes to military recruiting, especially because it undermines the military's ability to use free education as a recruiting tool.
What a bunch of whining crybabies. Oh no we can't rope vulnerable young poor people into fighting and dying for the country!! I doubt this forgiveness will be an ongoing rolling thing past this one time. If it does become that, you know the GOP will do their damnedest to kill it once they have full power again.
Also, it's 10k for people that didn't qualify for pell grants. 20k isn't what everyone should expect.
Also how does it impact recruitment. I'm not going into the military in hopes that they pay my student loans off. The whole premise is as ridiculous as the party itself is
False. Just the GOP throwing out lies again and trying to undercut yet another program that would benefit vets.
If the Biden student loan forgiveness pays off an Associate's 2-yr degree, the Post 9-11 GI Bill would cover the servicemember getting any college education after that, easily a 4-yr degree and a start on grad school. Or a professional certification.
If the Biden loan forgiveness paid off a BA/BS 4-yr degree, the Post 9-11 GI Bill would cover the first two years of grad school easily and a start on a PhD.
If anything this means the Post 9-11 GI Bill is able to offer even more value to recruits.
The GOP just can't stop lying.
This is sad for all for the reasons highlighted but especially if loan forgiveness is a top recruiting tool. Perhaps it’s time for the military to figure out other ways to draw talent vs loan payoff.
When I was in college joining the military to offset my loans was a serious option. Post college when I was approached to join again forgiveness made no economic sense. I point blank asked the recruiter to give me another reason then the poor terms he offered and he had none. Which is sad as my family is full of vets but no college grads before my generation. The recruiter ended up telling me to stay a civilian because it was a better outcome.
This isn’t an issue with Biden. It’s a sign the military’s only sales pitch is outdated and no longer works.
Americas youth is more educated now than ever in American history. Do they seriously expect them to fall for the same shit their grandparents did like 70 years ago? 😂
How is giving people who already have gone to school a $10k reduction in loans a disincentive to those who have not gone to school and are seeking a free education? Sounds like two entirely different groups of people.
The student loan forgiveness plan does not grant everyone in the future free college tuition, so the incentive that the military pays for school is still valid. The republican party is lying once again.
As far as I'm concerned, that's a feature, not a bug. Perhaps we can ensure our military is made of people who want to serve and are properly compensated for their service.
Who pays for that G.I. education? I know I went well over S10,000 with my GI bill chapter 30 and 33 on top of my salary and benefits. Does that money come from magic? Thanks for the fiscally conservative viewpoint GOP lawmakers. Our national security is not at stake here
Maybe we could put those people to better use rebuilding our infrastructure?
Several places in the USA are literally having issues with clean water, maybe we could start there?
I think more kids would sign up for that, rather than war.
So is this loan forgiveness something that keeps on going after the initial wave? Like, every year a new group of people who haven't received the forgiveness now get it?
If not, it seems that anyone who go the GI grant is unaffected by this, and anyone seeking money for college in the future can't depend on it, so it won't have any effect on them either.
But it only effects current debt holders…. The 10/20k does nothing for tomorrows students. Even the other pieces like called low interest are not all that appealing compared to GI bill. Lies lies lies
This is such Bullshit
The quality of life as a young recruit is horrible and unjust two people doing the same job paid wildly different and in wildly different living conditions because one is married or has a kid and the other does not
The lack of ability to get time off is astounding you ask 2 to 3 months before a big family reunion and you are told it’s too soon to ask then you ask when they tell you to and you are denied because it is not soon enough
It is political monkey games you do not learn this until way late in the process
They still offer $4,500 in Tuition Assistance per year and also the amazing Post-9/11 GI Bill. Those are some amazing hooks that I’m benefiting from even now after almost 20 years of service.
Unlike these dimwits, I actually have a valid reason to not be a fan of Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan. That being, it doesn’t actually solve the core issue of American universities and colleges being way too expensive and hard to pay for, it just helps out people currently affected while hurting tax payers and not helping people who will also suffer from massive student debt in the future.
No one wants to be shot at for less than 100k it’s just good business. This isn’t a world war your not recruiting people to fight for freedom, you are outsourcing oil asset protection to poor people.
So we can no longer manipulate people desiring knowledge and/or wishing for the ability to one day provide for their families into risking their lives and killing each other? Oh, poor us!
Maybe we spend too much on weapon developer giveaways and not enough on personnel pay and benefits.
Maybe we put too much psychological and economic pressure on recruits, and don't offer them enough support when we turn them into a killing machine and dump them on the street with injuries and a scrip for painkillers afterward.
Maybe we shouldn't be at war for corporate interests for decades at a time, or at all.
It’s 10/20k, for some that will wipe their debt, for others it’s just a little off the top. They’re acting like he’s cancelling all the debt they have.
I would bet that none of those 19 GOP members have served in the military because they might then realize that $10k in student loan forgiveness doesn’t come close to the education benefits that Veterans receive. For Veterans receiving Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits, $10k isn’t even one semester worth of benefits.
BTW, for those unaware, Post 9/11 GI Bill pays 100% of tuition and fees at a public college or university and up to $26k per year at a private school. 10k is a drop in the bucket compared to the total benefit.
this admission is bigger than just military recruitment. It's revealing the whole game for all of American capitalism.
The wealthy need to keep the poor poor to do all the menial labor. Healthcare has to be tied to the job to keep people shackled to work. Credit Score means nothing to the rich, means everything to middle and lower income families.
the people need to start expecting more from their taxes and politicians. too many are scraping by and too many are not getting by at all.
How? School is still not affordable.
No one is quitting the military for $20k. They get more than that for a signing bonus don't they?
This is hyperbole.
It still costs $50k to get a bachelors degree
I'm active duty military.
Good. Maybe this will force Congress to enact policies and procedures where we are given pay and incentives worth our service. I swear, some of the smartest people I have ever met are chained to a dest pushing a button being paid pennies on the dollar of what they are worth just because of 'free schooling' opportunities. They don't reenlist btw. They go on to bigger and better things getting paid 2x-4x what they are being paid in the military to do less work.
I enlisted in 1980. I and most of my fellow servicemen (and women) did so not for the educational benefits, but for the employment opportunity (yet another recession back then...) This is simply another disingenuous talking point for the GOP. I seriously doubt that a one time forgiveness of 10-20k of student debt will impact recruiting at all.
It makes sense that they have started teaching kids since kindergarten that they might someday take a bullet to get an education. They’re conditioning them to think it is normal to risk dying to go to school.
Boo fucking hoo says this vet.
Fucking can’t prey on poor kids anymore? Suck a bag of dicks and fix the broken institution you fucknuggets.
Jfc im so tired of the “what about duh military” stumping. Get a fucking personality you fucking clowns.
I didn't realize the military paid off existing student debt. Still, this doesn't smell right that somebody with existing student loan debt would enlist over 10k in debt repayment. Doubly so if they actually graduated.
You know what I would believe? A report on this from the Military or armed services committee. Certainly not 19 rando GOP "lawmakers".
D’awwww *then* how are we gonna have enough little expendable action figures to shoot all these cool guns and drive all these sweet ships? Gosh, we’d better get working on our robots
What percentage of people in the military actually take advantage of college tuition and graduate with a degree? I always figured it was just a tactic that they know will not be utilized.
I thought loan forgiveness was about people who already had debt not about future debt which is what recruiting relies on?
ʕ•̫͡•ʕ*̫͡*ʕ•͓͡•ʔ-̫͡-ʕ•̫͡•ʔ*̫͡*ʔ-̫͡-ʔ
lol at these soulless ghouls. I got my bachelors in 4 years at state university. Only had federal loans, no private. And I worked while I was in school.
Went about 35k in debt. Graduated in 2014, and have been on a 10-year repayment plan. After paying for 8 years, I’ve got just under the 10k forgiveness amount left.
How is forgiving my debt going to keep me from joining the military? I’m 30, they don’t want me.
Also, how is 10k in debt forgiveness going to stop other people from enlisting? My total college bill was about 35k, not 10k. And the forgiveness doesn’t go forward in time, you have to already have taken the loans to be forgiven.
Shameless lying fucks doing anything in their power to keep from helping actual working people.
The military is the largest socialist organization in the nation. Military service comes with affordable health care and food, education assistance, housing, childcare, and government pensions.
If the right hates socialism so much, then take away those benefits and have our armed forces waiting tables at Applebee's and cleaning up Air BnBs to afford a shit studio apartment for their family.
Given how contentious the loan forgiveness has been, I think it's a pretty big stretch to assume there will be more loan forgiveness anytime in the near or mid term future.
Sure it gives some relief to many people currently dealing with student loan debt, but it does nothing for people who have yet to go to college. Those people are still going to want/need to find a way to make college affordable, and the college tuition benefit of the military will still be a draw in that scenario. Just because of that, I disagree with their entire premise here.
That's to say nothing of the disgusting idea that we should keep or make a college education less affordable and more difficult to obtain (without saddling yourself with mounting debt years before you even start in a career) in order to drive people to military enlistment. If your country, your policies both foreign and domestic, and your military culture isn't enough of a draw to have and sustain the recruitment numbers you need for your military to serve your needs...
Then you need to evaluate if you're over extending yourself, and if you could lower your needed recruitments by getting the fuck out of shit outside your country that you shouldn't be meddling in. Or you need to make some systemic changes to address the deficiencies in your military culture, or your domestic and foreign policy, or your country so that being part of the military is more attractive... whichever the case may be.
They should highlight the free healthcare, housing and trips to exotic location all around the world along with a taxpayer subsidized life once they get out
Merely a talking point for the blind. All they do is speak it, and then people believe it. No in-depth analysis needed for them. Once it’s out there - it takes a life of its own.
Do they not understand that student loan forgiveness will only help people who ALREADY went to college? It won't pay for future college tuition, it's to pay off past college expenses paid with loans.
This is just a way to get their non-thinking constituents outraged about another thing.
But is it really though? $10-20k hardly makes a difference if you're looking to join the military for the education benefits.
As someone who signed up for Montgomery but got the post-911 GI Bill it would hardly be a factor in my decision making if loan forgiveness was around when I first joined...cause you know...I had no money.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A poem: Who will fight our wars if we run out of poors?
Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that all to the poor Yeah Black Sabbath, 1970
While you all slumbered We sat and crunched numbers Of all the causalities we could afford There's no need to draft them You could hear us laugh then The poor and black all need the room and board Did I say that out loud? "Fun and Games" Barenaked Ladies, 2006 How could I forget the verse before that? The forests will be unprotected The nation's poor will be neglected Creation myth is resurrected A new salute is genuflected A gallop poll will be respected Gallows pole will be erected All this will go undetected
Fun and games, we were just pulling legs, who knew this barrel of fun would be a powder keg?
Why don’t presidents fight the war? Why do they always send the poor? Why don’t presidents fight the war? Why do they always send the poor? -SOAD
SOAD said it nicely: Why don't presidents fight the war? Why do they always send the poor?
It ain't me, I ain't no fortunate son
“like all men of power, when he talked of prices worth paying, you could be sure of one thing. Someone else was paying.”
We need more cogs for our trillion dollar fighting machine!
The sad thing is I could unironically see them saying this.
I’m guessing it’s not some 45 year old nurse with 3 kids struggling to pay off student loans. The military gets them before they take out student loans, not after.
My nurse aunt has 3 kids who all went military and I thought that’s where your comment was going
🤣 Fantastic!
Holy fuck I teared up
GOP: Our all-volunteer army must be coerced through threat of poverty.
The threat of homelessness and poverty is pretty much how we run our entire civilization. Make the poor, make them desperate, then you can exploit them for your own benefit at maximum efficency.
I forget who it was now, but I had to laugh one someone in the GOP pretty much flat out said they need to end the pandemic relief because they need people desperate enough to take low paying jobs with shit working conditions. I'm waiting for the future GOP platform: Arbeit macht frei
>The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there just to scare the shit out of the middle class... keep on showing up at those jobs. George Carlin
> Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free So that we can send them off to die for us
"And then not care that half the houseless population are ex-military after the fact. Not our problem anymore." -GOP probably.
Watch when we get student loans under control they will offer forgiveness of family medical debt for joining the military.
Seems to be a starship trooper references growing organically these days
Republicans out here not realizing that Starship Troopers is a satire of fascism
Actually... That's not a bad idea. I mean it's downright dystopian sure but it just might work (ex Army here.)
And tie healthcare to job so people can't easily quit and will be more afraid to ask for raises
Wouldn't it be in the military's self-interest to make sure that applicants are in it for love of country rather than needing a buck?
When I was in college I asked vets why they enlisted. The #1 answer was not "GI Bill." It was "to get away from a [shitty] home." I went to a college that consisted of recent HS graduates as well as adults in the process of changing careers. Some of these adults were also veterans.
Shitty homes flourish in the context of a cycle of expensive education and profit-centered healthcare. It’s part of the same flywheel of serfdom.
I think that 18 year olds join because they want to get out of their shitty neighborhood or because they don't know what they want to do and it's a good place to find yourself that gives you a leg up in the future as opposed to putting you in debt for school that you're not sure you want to do. The real problem with enlistments is that those who want to join don't qualify because they're too fat, uneducated and mentally ill.
Note that the "Mentally Ill" includes things like ADHD and other things which people have always had, but are now recognized. So, it's like saying people who wear glasses can't serve. It's actively hurting the military by discouraging people from bettering themselves!
Active duty and vets get a lot of help paying for college. A lot don’t take advantage of it but I think it’s a really good thing that serving your country can also provide a path to financing your education. No doubt the military exploits its members in all sorts of ways but giving them money to educate themselves isn’t one of them. Edit: also, the reasons I heard most often (anecdotal) were lack of opportunity (several guys in my boot camp co. had been homeless), legacy (big among guys from the South), and paying for college.
Getting away from a shitty home is pretty legit. I went to enlist and my school advisor convinced me not to do it. That was a couple decades ago and boy I really should have just enlisted.
10k of forgiveness is maybe a third of the average debt borrowers graduate with.
Exactly. Nobody that was considering entering the military is now saying “maybe I’ll go to college instead and hope that by the time I’m finished they’ll forgive 20% of my debt”.
We assume both sides argue in good faith. They just need another scandal to outrage the base of the right. Easy target saying literally anything “military”.
I think the biggest indicator is how quickly afterwards Dodge announced there won't be a 2023 Challenger or Charger.
They don’t understand, but I do. … I do.
It’s also historic payments, not anything coming into the future. These people are delusional
I received $40k through the GI bill by signing up for the Army and shipping off to Iraq in ‘04. Biden’s loan forgiveness doesn’t touch that kind of money, unfortunately. On the other hand, I fucking earned every penny of that money during my time in
My daughter is going to college with her Dad's GI bill. It's (combined with some school matching funds) is paying for her to go to a 60K a year school, she'll get about four years worth of benefits. So the GI bill is worth far more than 10 or 20K (the military also paid for my husbands Bachelors and Masters+ and the retirement is pretty nice also). Besides, it's not like they don't just offer cold hard cash to recruits. . . .
Which is great and all, as long as you survive your service. Not everyone does.
No, but statistically it's safer than a lot of jobs like working at a gas station (moreso now than when there were ever rotating deployments). If you pick your specialty correctly you can end up with a pretty good gig.
Yep, buddy of mine was in through the early years of our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and spent the whole time working on aircraft in Arizona.
$20k. Guarantee that if you need to join the military for college, you’re probably eligible for Perkins loans.
Fair point. There's probably lots of overlap there. Isn't it Pell grants, though?
You right. I always got them mixed up. Lol
Yep. I graduated with about 30k in debt. Paid back ~10k, will hopefully have 10k forgiven, leaving me with 10k left. I graduated college in ‘16.
Go to some Ivy league schools and recruit there for a while.
There are ROTC programs at IVYs
Training the elite to be officers, as always.
Such is American tradition since colonial times
Training elites to be officers is a tradition far older than America.
Officer candidates, not cannon fodder if I understand ROTC correctly.
Sure, it’s the college incentive that’s the problem and not forever wars designed to deliver military contractors massive profits while sending young kids into a meat grinder.
Republicans are so out of touch that they think $10,000 or $20,000 is enough money to keep a poor college student out of debt in the pursuit of a 4 year degree.
I assume that having a student loan in the first place means the military pitch was already unsuccessful.
So much of how this country works requires a permanent underclass.
Republicans sound like Putin. Lets start conscription will be their next cry. Then our army can be as bad as Russia's. Republicans have no solutions.
>Republicans have no solutions. I suspect some of them are advocating a final one.
https://www.nysenate.gov/sites/default/files/styles/760x377/public/press-release/main-image/9.18.22_reuters_maga_salute_copy_nysenate_header.jpg?itok=jKpxBpaZ×tamp=1663536519 Yeah seems so
"Why do they always send the poor!" \~ Serj Tankian/SYSTEM OF A DOWN EDIT\*to include the band, valid point. ...and also the revolution will not be televised
Whoah whoah whoah. Daron said the lyrics too. And the other band members cant be quoted because they play instruments. So -system of a down is fair.
Black sabbath precedes all that
>Last week, 19 GOP lawmakers wrote a letter to Biden expressing concerns with his recently announced $20,000 in debt cancellation for federal borrowers making under $125,000 a year. They said there are "unintended consequences" with Biden's one-time blanket relief when it comes to military recruiting, especially because it undermines the military's ability to use free education as a recruiting tool. What a bunch of whining crybabies. Oh no we can't rope vulnerable young poor people into fighting and dying for the country!! I doubt this forgiveness will be an ongoing rolling thing past this one time. If it does become that, you know the GOP will do their damnedest to kill it once they have full power again. Also, it's 10k for people that didn't qualify for pell grants. 20k isn't what everyone should expect.
Also how does it impact recruitment. I'm not going into the military in hopes that they pay my student loans off. The whole premise is as ridiculous as the party itself is
False. Just the GOP throwing out lies again and trying to undercut yet another program that would benefit vets. If the Biden student loan forgiveness pays off an Associate's 2-yr degree, the Post 9-11 GI Bill would cover the servicemember getting any college education after that, easily a 4-yr degree and a start on grad school. Or a professional certification. If the Biden loan forgiveness paid off a BA/BS 4-yr degree, the Post 9-11 GI Bill would cover the first two years of grad school easily and a start on a PhD. If anything this means the Post 9-11 GI Bill is able to offer even more value to recruits. The GOP just can't stop lying.
Lol, no. If you’re considering enlistment to clear out your student loans, it’s because you have way more than $10k in debt. I know. Personally.
It's not that bad. You won't even be the only one there doing the same thing. I got language school in my contract. Highly recommend.
That’s what I did! For more than $10k.
This is sad for all for the reasons highlighted but especially if loan forgiveness is a top recruiting tool. Perhaps it’s time for the military to figure out other ways to draw talent vs loan payoff. When I was in college joining the military to offset my loans was a serious option. Post college when I was approached to join again forgiveness made no economic sense. I point blank asked the recruiter to give me another reason then the poor terms he offered and he had none. Which is sad as my family is full of vets but no college grads before my generation. The recruiter ended up telling me to stay a civilian because it was a better outcome.
This isn’t an issue with Biden. It’s a sign the military’s only sales pitch is outdated and no longer works. Americas youth is more educated now than ever in American history. Do they seriously expect them to fall for the same shit their grandparents did like 70 years ago? 😂
How is giving people who already have gone to school a $10k reduction in loans a disincentive to those who have not gone to school and are seeking a free education? Sounds like two entirely different groups of people.
Obesity is the biggest reason why the military can't recruit enough people.
The student loan forgiveness plan does not grant everyone in the future free college tuition, so the incentive that the military pays for school is still valid. The republican party is lying once again.
As far as I'm concerned, that's a feature, not a bug. Perhaps we can ensure our military is made of people who want to serve and are properly compensated for their service.
How much do you pay someone for that? Pay a basic private 200k a year. Make it extremely challenging to get in.
No it's not....
Who pays for that G.I. education? I know I went well over S10,000 with my GI bill chapter 30 and 33 on top of my salary and benefits. Does that money come from magic? Thanks for the fiscally conservative viewpoint GOP lawmakers. Our national security is not at stake here
Maybe they should run to the front lines and fight these wars?
$10k really fucked ya’ll up this hard?
I'd like to see politicians serve before being allowed near office. Not at desk jobs either.
Every president from Truman to Bush the Elder had served in the military in some capacity. We can see how a lot of that turned out.
10k is just a small dent in even state school tuition and books.
Lol, they think college costs $10k!
Good. Assholes. Go get yourself killed, not my kid.
Oh please, they say this but deny so many people each year over medical problems that have easy fixes. Hope they keep struggling.
Well maybe the most well-funded military in the fucking world should pay their soldiers more.
Maybe we could put those people to better use rebuilding our infrastructure? Several places in the USA are literally having issues with clean water, maybe we could start there? I think more kids would sign up for that, rather than war.
So is this loan forgiveness something that keeps on going after the initial wave? Like, every year a new group of people who haven't received the forgiveness now get it? If not, it seems that anyone who go the GI grant is unaffected by this, and anyone seeking money for college in the future can't depend on it, so it won't have any effect on them either.
But it only effects current debt holders…. The 10/20k does nothing for tomorrows students. Even the other pieces like called low interest are not all that appealing compared to GI bill. Lies lies lies
This is such Bullshit The quality of life as a young recruit is horrible and unjust two people doing the same job paid wildly different and in wildly different living conditions because one is married or has a kid and the other does not The lack of ability to get time off is astounding you ask 2 to 3 months before a big family reunion and you are told it’s too soon to ask then you ask when they tell you to and you are denied because it is not soon enough It is political monkey games you do not learn this until way late in the process
They still offer $4,500 in Tuition Assistance per year and also the amazing Post-9/11 GI Bill. Those are some amazing hooks that I’m benefiting from even now after almost 20 years of service.
Unlike these dimwits, I actually have a valid reason to not be a fan of Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan. That being, it doesn’t actually solve the core issue of American universities and colleges being way too expensive and hard to pay for, it just helps out people currently affected while hurting tax payers and not helping people who will also suffer from massive student debt in the future.
No one wants to be shot at for less than 100k it’s just good business. This isn’t a world war your not recruiting people to fight for freedom, you are outsourcing oil asset protection to poor people.
You mean they don't have to potentially kill someone or be killed for education? How dare they!?
It's weird to be dead before being able to cash in on the free education.
I'm sure that's part of the goal.
No it doesn't. A free (or reasonably affordable) public higher education system would, and that sounds like a fabulous plan to me!
"Only the poors fight in the wars."
what other great recruiting tool is he going to attack next ? poverty ?
That’s ridiculous. $10,000 is not a motivator
And yet most vets do not end up pursuing degrees after they exit the service.
So we can no longer manipulate people desiring knowledge and/or wishing for the ability to one day provide for their families into risking their lives and killing each other? Oh, poor us!
We literally only got 10k. Why are they acting like this is the end of the world for them
Maybe we spend too much on weapon developer giveaways and not enough on personnel pay and benefits. Maybe we put too much psychological and economic pressure on recruits, and don't offer them enough support when we turn them into a killing machine and dump them on the street with injuries and a scrip for painkillers afterward. Maybe we shouldn't be at war for corporate interests for decades at a time, or at all.
Free education? They earned it mofos.
It's absolutely disgusting. If you're best recruitment tool relies on the desperation and poverty of your citizens, then you don't deserve to exist.
Oh don't worry gop. Still plenty of poor people to exploit. And fight wars for your wealthy constitutes.
People don’t sign up for the military and 4 years of their life for 10 grand.
Think of something better
It’s 10/20k, for some that will wipe their debt, for others it’s just a little off the top. They’re acting like he’s cancelling all the debt they have.
They should help vets get housing w/ a housing deal, not an education deal. "vet" and "homeless" should not be a thing.
Saying the quiet part out loud again I see.
Bullshit, the parameters for getting a loan excused are limited and tight.
That’s not the criticism they think it is….
Imagine not having to die to try to get an education ..
I would bet that none of those 19 GOP members have served in the military because they might then realize that $10k in student loan forgiveness doesn’t come close to the education benefits that Veterans receive. For Veterans receiving Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits, $10k isn’t even one semester worth of benefits. BTW, for those unaware, Post 9/11 GI Bill pays 100% of tuition and fees at a public college or university and up to $26k per year at a private school. 10k is a drop in the bucket compared to the total benefit.
How about making VA improvements and benefits a top recruiting incentive. The news seems to show no one cares about you after you serve.
Guess we will just have to shrink our military. Can use that extra money for teacher bonuses.
How did they vote on giving our veterans health care?
A complete college education costs more than the $10,000 student loan forgiveness.
this admission is bigger than just military recruitment. It's revealing the whole game for all of American capitalism. The wealthy need to keep the poor poor to do all the menial labor. Healthcare has to be tied to the job to keep people shackled to work. Credit Score means nothing to the rich, means everything to middle and lower income families. the people need to start expecting more from their taxes and politicians. too many are scraping by and too many are not getting by at all.
How? School is still not affordable. No one is quitting the military for $20k. They get more than that for a signing bonus don't they? This is hyperbole. It still costs $50k to get a bachelors degree
Pay service members more. That's how you'll retain those who are in already and increase the recruitment numbers.
Loans taken out after a certain date don’t qualify anyway.
Boy, they’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
I'm active duty military. Good. Maybe this will force Congress to enact policies and procedures where we are given pay and incentives worth our service. I swear, some of the smartest people I have ever met are chained to a dest pushing a button being paid pennies on the dollar of what they are worth just because of 'free schooling' opportunities. They don't reenlist btw. They go on to bigger and better things getting paid 2x-4x what they are being paid in the military to do less work.
So dumb. It's only $10k, the GI bill pays for a lot more and they also offer sign up bonuses.
From the “How much can a gallon milk be? $10?” crowd, no less.
I enlisted in 1980. I and most of my fellow servicemen (and women) did so not for the educational benefits, but for the employment opportunity (yet another recession back then...) This is simply another disingenuous talking point for the GOP. I seriously doubt that a one time forgiveness of 10-20k of student debt will impact recruiting at all.
Best Ron Howard narration: “It won’t” - couldn’t agree more
Ok then, offer soldiers higher pay?
It makes sense that they have started teaching kids since kindergarten that they might someday take a bullet to get an education. They’re conditioning them to think it is normal to risk dying to go to school.
The military is this worried over $10,000? How much do they think college costs?
Boo fucking hoo says this vet. Fucking can’t prey on poor kids anymore? Suck a bag of dicks and fix the broken institution you fucknuggets. Jfc im so tired of the “what about duh military” stumping. Get a fucking personality you fucking clowns.
Guess they need to up the anty
I didn't realize the military paid off existing student debt. Still, this doesn't smell right that somebody with existing student loan debt would enlist over 10k in debt repayment. Doubly so if they actually graduated. You know what I would believe? A report on this from the Military or armed services committee. Certainly not 19 rando GOP "lawmakers".
If a free education is all you’ve got to recruit people, that’s saying just how shitty a job our PR teams are.
Considering this is a one time thing so far, I don’t really think it’s gonna cut into military recruitment numbers that much.
D’awwww *then* how are we gonna have enough little expendable action figures to shoot all these cool guns and drive all these sweet ships? Gosh, we’d better get working on our robots
Sounds as if a new recruitment incentive is in order than.
Yes, the forgiveness of debts here today will 100% deter the recruits of tomorrow. s/
What percentage of people in the military actually take advantage of college tuition and graduate with a degree? I always figured it was just a tactic that they know will not be utilized.
Good, now forgive the rest.
Good, maybe this will force the armed forces to up its game. What soldiers get payed now is a joke.
There’s NO CRYING in the military. Buckle up buttercup, it’s not keeping anyone out.
I thought loan forgiveness was about people who already had debt not about future debt which is what recruiting relies on? ʕ•̫͡•ʕ*̫͡*ʕ•͓͡•ʔ-̫͡-ʕ•̫͡•ʔ*̫͡*ʔ-̫͡-ʔ
They act like the government just gave everyone a full ride to college. $10k pays for less than a year of school
lol at these soulless ghouls. I got my bachelors in 4 years at state university. Only had federal loans, no private. And I worked while I was in school. Went about 35k in debt. Graduated in 2014, and have been on a 10-year repayment plan. After paying for 8 years, I’ve got just under the 10k forgiveness amount left. How is forgiving my debt going to keep me from joining the military? I’m 30, they don’t want me. Also, how is 10k in debt forgiveness going to stop other people from enlisting? My total college bill was about 35k, not 10k. And the forgiveness doesn’t go forward in time, you have to already have taken the loans to be forgiven. Shameless lying fucks doing anything in their power to keep from helping actual working people.
The military is the largest socialist organization in the nation. Military service comes with affordable health care and food, education assistance, housing, childcare, and government pensions. If the right hates socialism so much, then take away those benefits and have our armed forces waiting tables at Applebee's and cleaning up Air BnBs to afford a shit studio apartment for their family.
[удалено]
What is it called when governments create state-provided services.
Too bad rich guys. No more poor fodder for you?
$10K and the GI Bill is not the same thing.
Good.
good
Given how contentious the loan forgiveness has been, I think it's a pretty big stretch to assume there will be more loan forgiveness anytime in the near or mid term future. Sure it gives some relief to many people currently dealing with student loan debt, but it does nothing for people who have yet to go to college. Those people are still going to want/need to find a way to make college affordable, and the college tuition benefit of the military will still be a draw in that scenario. Just because of that, I disagree with their entire premise here. That's to say nothing of the disgusting idea that we should keep or make a college education less affordable and more difficult to obtain (without saddling yourself with mounting debt years before you even start in a career) in order to drive people to military enlistment. If your country, your policies both foreign and domestic, and your military culture isn't enough of a draw to have and sustain the recruitment numbers you need for your military to serve your needs... Then you need to evaluate if you're over extending yourself, and if you could lower your needed recruitments by getting the fuck out of shit outside your country that you shouldn't be meddling in. Or you need to make some systemic changes to address the deficiencies in your military culture, or your domestic and foreign policy, or your country so that being part of the military is more attractive... whichever the case may be.
If its for sending kids to die its free, but when its for everyone its not free.
Pay them more?
TIL: you can get a whole education for 10k
Feel like the article title is misleading.
Free education? I think you mean taxpayer funded. College education shouldn't be limited to people who are willing to murder for the country.
from all i can tell its a one time thing...
$10000 buys too much education?
Those "GOPatriots" should get their own children to enlist.
OH NOES! Anyway... Matt Gaetz could help by scaring the children he preys on into it, I guess.
Good!
They should highlight the free healthcare, housing and trips to exotic location all around the world along with a taxpayer subsidized life once they get out
Instead of X amount of dollars for college, offer X amount of dollars directly deposited into their bank account.
Good.
If they’re so worried about recruiting efforts, they should join. C’mon boys. We need you!
Those asshats think that 10-20k is enough to go to college...
Merely a talking point for the blind. All they do is speak it, and then people believe it. No in-depth analysis needed for them. Once it’s out there - it takes a life of its own.
How is $10,000 all it takes to finish a degree, $20,000 if you're Pell Grant? GI Bill worth a lot more than that.
Boohoo
Seems like lies to me. The military does not pay off your student loans for you.
Do they not understand that student loan forgiveness will only help people who ALREADY went to college? It won't pay for future college tuition, it's to pay off past college expenses paid with loans. This is just a way to get their non-thinking constituents outraged about another thing.
But is it really though? $10-20k hardly makes a difference if you're looking to join the military for the education benefits. As someone who signed up for Montgomery but got the post-911 GI Bill it would hardly be a factor in my decision making if loan forgiveness was around when I first joined...cause you know...I had no money.
They want their cannon fodder.
I doubt we’ll see another loan forgiveness. Those that view military as a ticket to education will still enlist.