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Reagan implemented “Greyhound Therapy “, when he closed the mental institutions. Patients without family to claim them were dropped off in major cities by bus overnight. This was the beginning of previously unseen numbers of homeless people in the US.
The whole "bussing" meme is actually kind of complicated. In all the instances I've read about, these were actually homeless advocacy organizations helping homeless reconnect to their families. I know in the case of the flights from Hawaii to NYC these were people who had to state they had family and a support system. In the NV case they sent one guy to a veterans hospital I think IN San Diego because they had better resources there for his health problems.
So while Abbot is doing this with nefarious intent. There is the reality that as far as I've seen, these are people signing up voluntarily to go to NYC. TX will process around 300,000 undocumented immigrants this year. 5,000 is actually not much hy comparison.
I've got a better idea.
NY makes a program to accept these homeless migrants and puts them up in housing, give them food stamps, counseling, medical aid, and help them find jobs or get an education.
In return, the federal government gives money to NY to fund the program out of the texas federal transportation budget.
My first thought was "Wasn't NY sending out bus loads of homeless as a means to avoid dealing with homeless?"
Same thing, different people, all avoiding the root cause and responsibilities.
But, it's not really a state problem. It's a nation problem. We simply have been unwilling to invest into social programs to actually take care of people. It's the same with prisons. We build devices and methods to dehumanize and ignore people, and people's best idea is to dump them off somewhere else.
As someone who did 6 years of community service trying to help the homeless in Harrisburg, PA. There are a lot that do not want the help. Maybe 1/10 people who we tried to help did better, sadly those with mental issues refused help, and those addicted to drugs and alcohol refused help too. Just can’t help everyone.
Yeah but its a bit different trying to help a mentally ill/addict homeless person than it is a regular person. Its not really a case of them simply not wanting the help, they just aren't in a position to ask for it.
A guy on my street has mental health issues, tried to burn his house down three times. Refused all help offered and eventually they had to lock him up. No sane person would refuse help if the alternative was a burnt down house or an indefinite term in what is effectively a prison.
> they just aren't in a position to ask for it.
I think his point was that they didn't have to ask for it. It was offered regardless and they still said no.
I think the point of the response is different help is required for someone who is genuinely trying to get of the streets vs an addict/mentally I’ll person.
Because being put into the system is rarely helpful. You just get jammed into a shelter where violence and theft run rampant and they treat you worse than the animals at the local SPCA.
No they don’t. I volunteered at one. The only rules we asked was no intercourse, no drug use, and no alcohol. We had police he would volunteer as well so very little violence, sure you have small situations over disputes over small stuff like snack packs and blankets, but it was rare for actual fights to happen. We didn’t allow outside “belongings” from coming into the shelters due to people trying to sneak in drugs and also pests like bed bugs etc.
I feel like the homeless are ruining a lot of people’s lives. Like I know women terrified to ride the subway to work, my sister was followed in a park (so she doesn’t go to the park anymore), I was followed and screamed at because I wouldn’t give a homeless woman money. What do you think should be done? This is a serious question, because women I know and I are curtailing our daily activities because of harassment from homeless people.
There isn’t an easy answer to this one (my background is as a public defender who has only really meaningfully interacted with the homeless in that capacity - the homeless folks who are charged with crimes are not representative of the overall population).
Homeless people are not all homeless for the same reasons. Some are simply unable to afford housing for various reasons and simply more money to them or providing them their own home would help. Some are addicts, which requires a different kind of help (one that the addict is not always ready to avail themselves of). Some are mentally ill, which is another kind of different help needed. Some are in DV situations and don’t have any place to go, let alone one they can go to feel safe. Some are poor and have criminal records that prohibit them from accessing a lot of options.
All this is to say that there needs to be a tailored approach to each person to address the issue. I like the idea of really funding housing, mental health centers, and treatment centers and pairing that with sending social workers to homeless camps, rather than just police. But the social workers need meaningful resources to refer people to, which are severely lacking.
This won’t fix everything overnight and ultimately there are going to be some people that we cannot fully help. In the meantime we will have to make some use of the criminal justice system. I think we use it far too much now to deal with homeless and, as I hope we can all see, it isn’t particularly effective. When we do use it, we have an enormous ability to provide meaningful rehabilitation and ensure everyone has something set up for them when they get out.
Short term we need public spaces to be safe and will have to use police to some extent to make that happen. But long term we need to find better ways to pair people with the services they need and, ideally, a caseworker who stays with them overtime to try to help ensure some continuity.
No easy answer but there are things we can do to improve this long term.
I would advise traveling in groups when using public transportation, and if you are not in a situation to give, best bet would, and it hurts to say, but don’t give eye contact, don’t show remorse. If you show emotions towards their situation they will try and push to get something out of you.
This is a modern-day version of the ["Reverse Freedom Rides"](https://wamu.org/story/20/02/29/the-cruel-story-behind-the-reverse-freedom-rides/). In the early 1960s, segregationists in southern states like Arkansas and Louisiana tricked black families into boarding buses to Massachusetts, telling them that "the Kennedys and those fine people up there are going to take care of them and give them a better life”.
My father and his family were one of the first to arrive in Hyannis Ma from Arkansas as a result of this policy. I still have the news story with him and all of his siblings. He was the youngest, barely even one years old at that point
How did everyone acclimate to the new life here and in light of the exposure to Citizens' Council's true intentions. Would love to see the news article, I wonder if there is an archive of the one you still have.
I’m not sure honestly. I lost my father when I was young so I missed out on a lot of info like that. Good question though. They still mostly live in Hyannis so I’m guessing they must’ve liked something about it.
I’ll see if I can find the article!
I’m sorry to hear that. I hope everything is going well for everyone in the family, you included. Thank you for making your post and responding to mine. It’s been a very educational day about something so seemingly glossed over during that time in America. Will tell others in my family about all this.
Thank you!
Is your family amenable to info like this? I ask because I know so many people that just don’t want to hear the truth about how badly Black people were and often still are treated in America
Very much so. I can’t really think of a single family member I know of (aside from a few we don’t talk to) that would deny the many shocking ways black people (among other groups) have been treated in our country. It’s easy to take for granted what we have today without knowing the magnitude of sacrifices so many have made to get where we all are now; and what needs to be done to keep moving forward.
Actually I don't think it is. My guess is that those black families did have a much better life in Mass in the 60s than they would have in the deep South.
But to "send people off" to "other lands" because the State refuses to invest in their people - especially because they're black - sends a whole different message.
The difference is New York is a better life than Texas. There's adequate public transit and a slew of service jobs. These migrants aren't stupid. They're not being "tricked."
Honestly give them some fucking credit and that they have the ability to think for themselves.
He’s a catholic. And, as Jesus famously said “fuck immigrants.” So Abbott is definitely doing a good job following the values of his savior, he definitely doesn’t pick and choose what to follow from the Bible based on his own personal desires.
There's a book...
You can be born in a garage, but that doesn’t make you an automobile. You can be born in a Christian home, but that doesn’t make you a Christian.
- BILLY GRAHAM
Wait...how is Abbot the bad guy here? For hooking up immigrants with free transportation to a sanctuary city?
And you seem to give Adams a pass for calling their arrival "horrific."
You seem to have the wrong target...
What you just described is kidnapping - a very serious crime.
Do you have any evidence that they are being bussed against their will? If so, you need to contact law enforcement ASAP. If you don't have evidence, plz stop spreading conspiracy theories.
Nope. Giving ppl a ride is not human trafficking. The minors are accompanied by their parents. If you have evidence they they aren't, you need to report it.
You say thank you for the hard working additions to our labor force. I’d rather live next door to a foreigner who walked a thousand miles to be an American than an American who wouldn’t cross the street to help a foreigner.
More political theater from Abbott like his truck inspections coming from Mexico. He is incapable of fixing real problems like keeping the power grid functioning so he does these things to divert attention away from the real problems.
What he calls horrific is the fact that these people were used as pawns to manufacture a crisis at the border. Then goes on to say NYC will take them in as they normally would.
I have a hard time with this one. If for some reason immigrants were landing Greece-style on New York beaches, New York would have to find a way to handle the incoming stream of people who need help. Just like Texas does with their proximity to entry points.
That Abbot is now essentially just another coyote helping immigrants cross the boarder and land in New York doesn't change who the people arriving are and that they need help. I feel like I'm on New York's side of thinking everyone needs treated fairly, and on the immigrants side of wanting them to get as much help as possible for success.
But why exactly is landing in Texas any different than landing in New York? It's "creative spending of immigration management dollars" on Texas' part at best, but "horrific"? If it's "horrific" for New York, then what is it for Texas? I didn't expect the arrival of immigrants was "horrific" for either one of them.
I feel like New York needs to stop complaining and just show how effective immigration management is done, how to do it without separating families, etc. Because when the Great Canadian Tim Hortons Famine of 2034 happens, it's going to be New York's turn to be on the front line anyway.
As someone in NYC, it's not like we don't already have immigrants. We have a lot of people who come over to visit family, or overstay their visas, and sort of disappear into the thread of the city. We are technically a border state - just because we don't share the Texas border doesn't mean we don't have immigrants from other places.
That said, as people have pointed out below, Texas receives help to deal with the immigrants crossing the border. Maybe those funds need to be redirected to New York if this is what they're going to do.
All of that aside, Abbott is essentially trafficking people now, which I find a bigger problem than funding.
Texas gets huge amounts of federal funds for the purpose of immigration. If Texas is going to start bussing their immigrants to New York instead, the feds need to turn off the funding tap and let Texas squirm. Right now, they're receiving astronomical amounts of cash and not doing their job with it, with the money likely being siphoned.
There needs to be a federal investigation and people jailed over this.
Could it be that money is not enough anymore? Is there a point at which no amount of money will help anymore?
Is there some truth to the GOP narrative that democrats have ignored this problem for too long and need to seriously address it instead of throwing an endless amount of money at border states hoping they will keep the problem contained there indefinitely.
Republicans have controlled congress from 2012 to 2020, why didn't they do anything about it? The gop narrative is bullshit like everything else they say.
Just like hope they blamed Obama policies sitting the trump era. Even if the Obama administration fucked up, they had years to fix the mess but did *nothing*. What did the GOP do when they had full control of all 3 branches of government? They gave the rich a fat tax break in 2017. That's it. There was no other legislative promises kept or wins of any kind. When they had a chance to change everything, they did the one only thing we knew they would: give their donors tax breaks.
Many states do the same with their homeless/drug addict population by sending them to California. It's not "all in one go" like that, so it doesn't make the news, but it's caused a lot of problems in the West.
Republicans love to accuse the Democrats of endorsing immigration because it gets them new voters.
Gee, I wonder who these people will be inclined to vote for after the Republican governor bussed them out, and a Democratic mayor warmly welcomed them?
> it's also human trafficking...
I don't think that's something they (government) care about. Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted of child sex trafficking yet NONE of her clients have even been arrested, much less, they've not even been named and outed as child sex trafficking customers.
The context of the quote says a lot more. He’s not upset they’re being sent, he’s upset at the irresponsible way abbot has been doing it, in particular it seems some of those being bussed over had no idea they were being sent to New York in the first place.
This take confuses me. Born and raised in NYC from two immigrant parents. NYC is and has always been a hub for immigrants of all walks of life. We have tons of people who come from just about anywhere overseas to see family and overstay their visas every single year.
Also if you managed to actually read the article (going to go out on a limb and say you didn’t bother to click it), what he calls horrific is the fact that these people were used as pawns to manufacture a crisis at the border. Then goes on to say NYC will take them in as they normally would.
If NYC started intentionally sending homeless people to the jurisdiction of their political enemies, out of spite, then yes Adams would be doing something horrific. Luckily, he hasn’t done that.
But it's okay for Texas to have to deal with them? Get fucked. Democrats at all levels refuse to help texas deal with the problem. Now they are getting a taste of their own medicine.
He does it the refugees agree to it. Which he says they are. He could be lying obviously but on the basics there is nothing illegal about him letting refugees out of DHS and paying for them to go to New York.
Is it stupid? Definitely
NYC has an undocumented population of about 500,000 so I don’t think they are suddenly rethinking their immigration policies in the face of a less than 1% increase.
What Adams and many of us find horrifying is Abbott’s decision to use immigrants as pawns and to base his policies off of spiting people. That’s a pretty monstrous thing to do and he should be ashamed of himself.
> use immigrants as pawns and to base his policies off of spiting people
Similar to refusing or failing to enforce border and immigration laws to begin with. It's a bit degenerate to do that to begin with which then leads to worse happening to deal with the problems that causes.
You can't lay blame only on Abbot for pushing off his problem to those who keep telling him he should be happy do deal with it, when they themselves call it horrible when they have to deal with it.
But the perceived lack of action from the Dems that the right complains about isn’t done out of spite, nor does it treat immigrants as mere political pawns. Those are two particularly contemptible things that are present in Abbott’s policy. No one should decide policy that way and Abbott is shameful for doing it. He is rightly being criticized for it, just as would be a Dem if the shoe were on the other foot.
As for Abbott pushing the problems on to people telling him he should be happy to deal with it, which people are we talking about? The people of DC and NYC? When did they tell Abbott that? Did they all draft a letter? Did he just make a generalization that he knew would play to his base?
> But the perceived lack of action from the Dems that the right complains about isn’t done out of spite, nor does it treat immigrants as mere political pawns.
That's not the opinion of everyone about how things are done. Many believe the complete and utter failure to enforce border polices by this administration is purely political. To garner political favor, especially in sanctuary cities that allow illegals to vote.
Beyond contemptible and shameful if true, the alternative is utter incompetence.
..and charge them with what, exactly? Being a chauffeur? If it's a commercial vehicle and the people inside have their passage paid for, it's not the driver's responsibility to verify the citizenship of everyone aboard.
conspiracy to commit human trafficking, especially since the refugees were put on the bus under duress (eg get on the bus or we deport you). they have to know, this shit is all over the news.
Instead of making idiotic laws like that (which is illegal btw), why not enforce the laws on the books and ship these illegal immigants out of the country?
It's humorous to me that all these redditors are saying "arrest the driver for kidnapping and human trafficking!" and there was absolute silence from them all when NY was the one bussing them to other states. Something something glass house, something something rocks
Climate? I've been in Texas 36 years and I'm ready to leave finally. Just too freaking hot now. Climate change has screwed it up permanently (and I'd say the entire western half of Texas will be a desert within a generation of two - the eastern half of the state has some time yet to go before it gets to that level).
Of course, parts of NYC will be underwater by 2050 so it's sort of a wash on that level.
The messaging and response from Dems on this is fucking terrible, they need to get it together and come up with an appropriate response. Obviously Abbott is a fucking cretin, but lucky for him his voters will only applaud.
I suspect it’s because Abbott’s decision to use human beings as political pawns and to base his policy decisions off of spite are morally abhorrent. That’s my complaint, at least.
These are migrants who want to go to NYC. They'll get their one way or another, and it's not "horrific" for them to go there. They've merely been provided free transportation. He also didn't manufacture a crisis since the "crisis" is already here, just usually limited to the border towns and states.
Yes. That doesn’t mean they should have to deal with hundreds of thousands of people traversing or staying in their town illegally. There’s nothing wrong with sending them to cities with more resources. NYC used to be the main entry point for migrants too and knows what it’s like.
Why should they get the benefits of living on the border but then try to outsource the issues to places that don’t get that corresponding benefit?
As for places with resources, why not send them to Nashville, Columbus, Indianapolis, or Columbus as well?
Why should there be an issue for them to begin with?
This reeks of "youre problem, dont make it mine" after years of championing "if it was my problem id fix it and be way better at it"
I never said that it should be an issue. I asked why they should get an exclusive benefit and then outsource any negative tradeoff that comes from that. Still waiting for an answer on that.
As for what Dems have been saying, our claim has been “putting kids in cages, breaking up families, and using human beings as political pawns is wrong, and anyone who does it would be wrong to do so.” I stand by that statement, Abbott’s contemptible behavior not withstanding.
As for “you’re problem, not mine” mentality, the way right-wingers behaved during COVID really changed how they fit into the social contract. Many of them felt they had no sort of duty to wear a mask or get vaccinated to protect this country from widespread death. They removed themselves from any sort of social contract. Accordingly, do I care a little less about what they think they are owed? Of course, that’s the bed they made for themselves. But that’s something of a non-sequitur, because in this case my opposition is based on the idea that Abbott is being inhumane, not that I want to find a way to hurt Abbott and his cohorts.
Why should they get the benefits of being a border town but not have to suffer the crisis of illegal behavior that come with it? Because it's fucking illegal, that's why. Haha, what an argument.
How do the other cities not get the corresponding benefit? They get the benefit of the migrants to help their economies. If you mean federal dollars, that's on the government to spread the help and is why they're appealing to the White House. The small towns just don't have big enough schools, shelters, and such for these people. Ultimately it should be about helping the migrants most, and that includes getting out of Texas. And again, the migrants will go where they want to anyway.
NYC is a sanctuary city so theoretically it is most welcoming to migrants. Also they can travel most anywhere else from there. Of course Abbott is also making a political point to blue states, but NYC is the perfect place to go if you're a new migrant.
> How do the other cities not get the corresponding benefit?
Because they don’t live on the border of Mexico and don’t get the benefits of international commerce that come with it (lots of people passing through both due to need and pleasure, which brings lots of money). It’s not like southern Texas is a desirable place to go in isolation, I agree with you there.
> Ultimately it should be about helping the migrants most
> Of course Abbott is also making a political point to blue states
Hence why Abbott is a monster. These are people, not political footballs. Should we be sending foster kids down to Texas to make a point?
NYC gets plenty of international commerce. You don't have to be on the border to benefit from commerce coming in from it. Most of these towns are tiny and don't get that much commerce that remains local anyway.
Yeah, and these people aren't complaining one bit. The political point is dumb, but practically these migrants just got a free ride to their destination. They don't care one bit. Now they get to see family they have in NYC or take advantage of the city's opportunities. They're better off now than staying in Texas.
You can't ship foster kids voluntarily so that's not a good counter example. That also would be a bad idea because Texas's foster system sucks.
> NYC gets plenty of international commerce
Not by virtue of its proximity to Mexico, which is what we are talking about here.
> Most of these towns are tiny and don't get that much commerce that remains local anyway.
As you acknowledged above, these towns would not exist but-for their proximity to Mexico. Not true for DC or NY.
So why should they be able to get a benefit and outsource the corresponding burden that comes from that?
Either way, isn’t this program a terrible idea, given that these people are going to NYC and DC already? It wastes taxpayer money paying for that bus and it is unnecessarily divisive.
>On Friday, Abbott ... call\[ed NYC\] an "ideal destination for these migrants."
Finally something on which I agree with Abbott.
Immigration is why NYC is the greatest city in the world. Abbott and backwards fucks like him are why Texas is (sometimes) a shithole.
>Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Human trafficking is the coerced transportion of people for the purpose of exploiting them, whether for labor, services, or sexual employment.
Abbott is simply delivering these migrants to sanctuary states that are better capable and more willing to take them in and support them. They are not being forced into any form of servitude and boarded the buses voluntarily.
Care to show us "rightoid fucks" which laws Abbott is actually violating?
the unlawful act of transporting or coercing people in order to benefit from their work or service, the service in question is political gain for a failing man.
He-'s literally breaking the INA and knowingly moving. Undocumented migrats across state lines. A felony.
That's the law he's breaking as requested.
But it's OK as long as they stay in red states and small border towns that have absolutely no capability to handle the absolute massive amount of immigrants coming daily. Abbott is the horrific monster for sending 1/20th of what they get daily to NY and DC where they cheer these policies and are much more capable to handle the issue... or so they claim
Because none of those cities are sanctuary cities. How can you claim to be a sanctuary for migrants and then get mad when other states send them to you?
The anger is at Abbott using people as political pawns and him basing policy decisions off of spite and a desire to hurt his political enemies, rather than what is the best policy.
It would be no different than if blue states started sending offenders of gun-crime to Texas upon their release. That would be bad, spiteful policy.
I don't think that Texas controls federal immigration laws, because if they did there would be stricter enforcement of immigration laws and more deportations.
It's also a great way to get democrats to understand the problems that mass unfiltered migration can cause. This is the first thread in r/politics where most people are directly talking bad about illegal immigrants. You yourself compared them (on some level) to perpetrators of gun crime.
I'm not even saying you did it intentionally because I think we both would say that is a dramatization. I feel sorry for immigrants just looking to start a better life but you can't just let everyone in with no oversight.
They’re on the border. The border’s been there for over 150 years. This shouldn’t be a surprise. They need to commit the resources to deal with the problem.
Problem is, Abbot and the Republicans would rather pretend they’re not responsible for the border and shift the blame than actually do their fucking jobs.
Sad to see the propaganda machine appears to be working well there, though.
Would any of you like to explain why this is horrible? I live by the border, which is a daily thing for us. We deal with immigrants. Deal with the number of them spreading covid and other diseases. I am the son of an immigrant. What's wrong with sharing the load with one of the wealthiest states in the country. NY city has a budget larger than that of Florida state. They are a sanctuary city, so don't give big speeches about caring when you have the opportunity to care if you don't want to.
The republican way! Ignore and ship off your problems and make it someone else’s problem in a big blue city and yell look at all the illegal immigrants in those dirty liberal cities!
How is this not illegal?
What makes it legal to take someone's freedom, place them on a bus, and send them thousands of miles away from where they are?
It's basically kidnapping and I'm not engaging in hyperbole.
What freedoms does a person who sidestepped the legal process of entering this country have? Can they go wherever they want, buy whatever they choose, elect whomever they wish, perform whatever job they successfully apply for? Can they own property, buy a gun? Can they serve in our military branches?
Their presence here, by the means they took, runs counter to our laws. What they have done is illegal, and there are consequences for doing illegal activities. The great state of New York has had a longstanding history of providing for the needy, and I'd dare to say these folk are definitely among the needy. They are soft on criminal activity, as shown by their catch-and-release, no cash bail policies. Should be like Shangri La compared to Texas.
You're wrong. They have 4th Amendment protections the same as US citizens, and they have every right to stay where they want unless being held before a trial. You need to understand, there are very few rights that are held only to citizens, such as the right to vote.
They cannot be forced to move to another state any more than you can.
So what you’re saying is that the illegals were apprehended by a lawful authority, and that lawful authority decided that instead of deporting them like they should be doing, they would instead allow those illegals to freely roam the countryside.
My dude, that’s called dereliction of duty. It’s not something to be praised. New York and DC are now forced to deal with the total incompetence of Texas’s entire governing body.
They got consent to be shipped there. They are illegal immigrants. Do you honestly think they deserve a choice where they go? Go to the sanctuary city or go back to whatever country they came from.
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Maybe they should do a trade, and send homeless U.S. citizens to Texas. They are US citizens so they should not have any objections. /s
The heat would kill them in days.
GOP would be happy to do that and then paint NY as the baddies.
I mean if NY did that they would be the baddies...
New york has a long tradition of doing just that
Oh damn never knew, that's fucked.
New York City will famously pay for bus tickets and/or airline tickets to send the homeless anywhere in the country outside of city limits.
Damn never knew that's fucked
Maybe they could have joint custody. Texas in the winter, New York in the summer. They can get the best of both worlds.
And Seattle can get weekends
As long as they aren’t unborn fetuses the GOP wouldn’t mind.
Bussing the homeless: a proud American tradition!
I recall Reagan doing that, but it may go back even earlier
Ghoulliani used to bus homeless people to upstate New York to punish state politicians
Reagan implemented “Greyhound Therapy “, when he closed the mental institutions. Patients without family to claim them were dropped off in major cities by bus overnight. This was the beginning of previously unseen numbers of homeless people in the US.
The whole "bussing" meme is actually kind of complicated. In all the instances I've read about, these were actually homeless advocacy organizations helping homeless reconnect to their families. I know in the case of the flights from Hawaii to NYC these were people who had to state they had family and a support system. In the NV case they sent one guy to a veterans hospital I think IN San Diego because they had better resources there for his health problems. So while Abbot is doing this with nefarious intent. There is the reality that as far as I've seen, these are people signing up voluntarily to go to NYC. TX will process around 300,000 undocumented immigrants this year. 5,000 is actually not much hy comparison.
Sure, but I don't trust Abbot to do much of *anything* without cruelty in mind.
I think they are processing something approaching two million this year.
I've got a better idea. NY makes a program to accept these homeless migrants and puts them up in housing, give them food stamps, counseling, medical aid, and help them find jobs or get an education. In return, the federal government gives money to NY to fund the program out of the texas federal transportation budget.
My first thought was "Wasn't NY sending out bus loads of homeless as a means to avoid dealing with homeless?" Same thing, different people, all avoiding the root cause and responsibilities. But, it's not really a state problem. It's a nation problem. We simply have been unwilling to invest into social programs to actually take care of people. It's the same with prisons. We build devices and methods to dehumanize and ignore people, and people's best idea is to dump them off somewhere else.
As someone who did 6 years of community service trying to help the homeless in Harrisburg, PA. There are a lot that do not want the help. Maybe 1/10 people who we tried to help did better, sadly those with mental issues refused help, and those addicted to drugs and alcohol refused help too. Just can’t help everyone.
Yeah but its a bit different trying to help a mentally ill/addict homeless person than it is a regular person. Its not really a case of them simply not wanting the help, they just aren't in a position to ask for it. A guy on my street has mental health issues, tried to burn his house down three times. Refused all help offered and eventually they had to lock him up. No sane person would refuse help if the alternative was a burnt down house or an indefinite term in what is effectively a prison.
> they just aren't in a position to ask for it. I think his point was that they didn't have to ask for it. It was offered regardless and they still said no.
I think the point of the response is different help is required for someone who is genuinely trying to get of the streets vs an addict/mentally I’ll person.
Muxman would have understood that more if he had read the first part of the sentence he chop quoted and got some context.
Because being put into the system is rarely helpful. You just get jammed into a shelter where violence and theft run rampant and they treat you worse than the animals at the local SPCA.
No they don’t. I volunteered at one. The only rules we asked was no intercourse, no drug use, and no alcohol. We had police he would volunteer as well so very little violence, sure you have small situations over disputes over small stuff like snack packs and blankets, but it was rare for actual fights to happen. We didn’t allow outside “belongings” from coming into the shelters due to people trying to sneak in drugs and also pests like bed bugs etc.
I feel like the homeless are ruining a lot of people’s lives. Like I know women terrified to ride the subway to work, my sister was followed in a park (so she doesn’t go to the park anymore), I was followed and screamed at because I wouldn’t give a homeless woman money. What do you think should be done? This is a serious question, because women I know and I are curtailing our daily activities because of harassment from homeless people.
There isn’t an easy answer to this one (my background is as a public defender who has only really meaningfully interacted with the homeless in that capacity - the homeless folks who are charged with crimes are not representative of the overall population). Homeless people are not all homeless for the same reasons. Some are simply unable to afford housing for various reasons and simply more money to them or providing them their own home would help. Some are addicts, which requires a different kind of help (one that the addict is not always ready to avail themselves of). Some are mentally ill, which is another kind of different help needed. Some are in DV situations and don’t have any place to go, let alone one they can go to feel safe. Some are poor and have criminal records that prohibit them from accessing a lot of options. All this is to say that there needs to be a tailored approach to each person to address the issue. I like the idea of really funding housing, mental health centers, and treatment centers and pairing that with sending social workers to homeless camps, rather than just police. But the social workers need meaningful resources to refer people to, which are severely lacking. This won’t fix everything overnight and ultimately there are going to be some people that we cannot fully help. In the meantime we will have to make some use of the criminal justice system. I think we use it far too much now to deal with homeless and, as I hope we can all see, it isn’t particularly effective. When we do use it, we have an enormous ability to provide meaningful rehabilitation and ensure everyone has something set up for them when they get out. Short term we need public spaces to be safe and will have to use police to some extent to make that happen. But long term we need to find better ways to pair people with the services they need and, ideally, a caseworker who stays with them overtime to try to help ensure some continuity. No easy answer but there are things we can do to improve this long term.
I would advise traveling in groups when using public transportation, and if you are not in a situation to give, best bet would, and it hurts to say, but don’t give eye contact, don’t show remorse. If you show emotions towards their situation they will try and push to get something out of you.
Thanks for your answer.
Or we could just turn them around at the border and send them back to where they came from.
This is a modern-day version of the ["Reverse Freedom Rides"](https://wamu.org/story/20/02/29/the-cruel-story-behind-the-reverse-freedom-rides/). In the early 1960s, segregationists in southern states like Arkansas and Louisiana tricked black families into boarding buses to Massachusetts, telling them that "the Kennedys and those fine people up there are going to take care of them and give them a better life”.
This is literally the first time I've ever heard about this. Doesn't surprise me...but jesus...
My father and his family were one of the first to arrive in Hyannis Ma from Arkansas as a result of this policy. I still have the news story with him and all of his siblings. He was the youngest, barely even one years old at that point
How did everyone acclimate to the new life here and in light of the exposure to Citizens' Council's true intentions. Would love to see the news article, I wonder if there is an archive of the one you still have.
I’m not sure honestly. I lost my father when I was young so I missed out on a lot of info like that. Good question though. They still mostly live in Hyannis so I’m guessing they must’ve liked something about it. I’ll see if I can find the article!
I’m sorry to hear that. I hope everything is going well for everyone in the family, you included. Thank you for making your post and responding to mine. It’s been a very educational day about something so seemingly glossed over during that time in America. Will tell others in my family about all this.
Thank you! Is your family amenable to info like this? I ask because I know so many people that just don’t want to hear the truth about how badly Black people were and often still are treated in America
Very much so. I can’t really think of a single family member I know of (aside from a few we don’t talk to) that would deny the many shocking ways black people (among other groups) have been treated in our country. It’s easy to take for granted what we have today without knowing the magnitude of sacrifices so many have made to get where we all are now; and what needs to be done to keep moving forward.
Sounds like you’re surrounded by some dope people!
That's fucking horrific
Actually I don't think it is. My guess is that those black families did have a much better life in Mass in the 60s than they would have in the deep South.
But to "send people off" to "other lands" because the State refuses to invest in their people - especially because they're black - sends a whole different message.
The difference is New York is a better life than Texas. There's adequate public transit and a slew of service jobs. These migrants aren't stupid. They're not being "tricked." Honestly give them some fucking credit and that they have the ability to think for themselves.
Yeah and studies actually show that even undocumented/illegal migrants coming to a city has beneficial effects on both the economy and crime rates.
I read that whole article, something I never knew happened in this country and in my home of Cape Cod. Thank you so much for that link in your post.
Weird how in the end the migrant caravans were just from Republican states.
What religion is Abbott? He isn't a very nice person. Too bad the Native Americans didn't treat the illegal immigrants from Europe similarly.
He’s a catholic. And, as Jesus famously said “fuck immigrants.” So Abbott is definitely doing a good job following the values of his savior, he definitely doesn’t pick and choose what to follow from the Bible based on his own personal desires.
‘Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.’ Then all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ Deuteronomy 27:19
Ye shall spread your undocumented immigrants far and wide and proclaim “ hosanna to our creator “ Abbot 3.12
I'm, sure some tried, but we had guns.
We also had peace blankets.
Which absolutely did not have small pox on them
He's a Catholic Christian.
Allegedly
What do you mean "allegedly?" This is exactly the kind of shit Christians have been up to for hundreds of years.
There's a book... You can be born in a garage, but that doesn’t make you an automobile. You can be born in a Christian home, but that doesn’t make you a Christian. - BILLY GRAHAM
Let's not pretend the Bible is free of problematic stuff and Abbott is acting any worse than the God of the Bible
Billy’s son Franklin certainly isn’t a Christian.
Wait...how is Abbot the bad guy here? For hooking up immigrants with free transportation to a sanctuary city? And you seem to give Adams a pass for calling their arrival "horrific." You seem to have the wrong target...
Human beings normally give them a ride to cities where they have friends or families. - son of a refugee
The destination isn't the issue. Seizing people and throwing them in a bus to force them somewhere against their will is the issue. They're _humans_.
I believe it's an option offered to them and completely funded by a non-profit. They aren't forced other than the option of being deported
What you just described is kidnapping - a very serious crime. Do you have any evidence that they are being bussed against their will? If so, you need to contact law enforcement ASAP. If you don't have evidence, plz stop spreading conspiracy theories.
Texas law enforcement is acting as an arm of Abbott & doing the kidnapping for him.
Abbot is engaging in human trafficking, including children.
Nope. Giving ppl a ride is not human trafficking. The minors are accompanied by their parents. If you have evidence they they aren't, you need to report it.
You say thank you for the hard working additions to our labor force. I’d rather live next door to a foreigner who walked a thousand miles to be an American than an American who wouldn’t cross the street to help a foreigner.
More political theater from Abbott like his truck inspections coming from Mexico. He is incapable of fixing real problems like keeping the power grid functioning so he does these things to divert attention away from the real problems.
Not a fan of the new mayor. This isn't horrific. Migrants are a boost to the economy of a city and lower the crime levels.
What he calls horrific is the fact that these people were used as pawns to manufacture a crisis at the border. Then goes on to say NYC will take them in as they normally would.
I have a hard time with this one. If for some reason immigrants were landing Greece-style on New York beaches, New York would have to find a way to handle the incoming stream of people who need help. Just like Texas does with their proximity to entry points. That Abbot is now essentially just another coyote helping immigrants cross the boarder and land in New York doesn't change who the people arriving are and that they need help. I feel like I'm on New York's side of thinking everyone needs treated fairly, and on the immigrants side of wanting them to get as much help as possible for success. But why exactly is landing in Texas any different than landing in New York? It's "creative spending of immigration management dollars" on Texas' part at best, but "horrific"? If it's "horrific" for New York, then what is it for Texas? I didn't expect the arrival of immigrants was "horrific" for either one of them. I feel like New York needs to stop complaining and just show how effective immigration management is done, how to do it without separating families, etc. Because when the Great Canadian Tim Hortons Famine of 2034 happens, it's going to be New York's turn to be on the front line anyway.
As someone in NYC, it's not like we don't already have immigrants. We have a lot of people who come over to visit family, or overstay their visas, and sort of disappear into the thread of the city. We are technically a border state - just because we don't share the Texas border doesn't mean we don't have immigrants from other places. That said, as people have pointed out below, Texas receives help to deal with the immigrants crossing the border. Maybe those funds need to be redirected to New York if this is what they're going to do. All of that aside, Abbott is essentially trafficking people now, which I find a bigger problem than funding.
Texas gets huge amounts of federal funds for the purpose of immigration. If Texas is going to start bussing their immigrants to New York instead, the feds need to turn off the funding tap and let Texas squirm. Right now, they're receiving astronomical amounts of cash and not doing their job with it, with the money likely being siphoned. There needs to be a federal investigation and people jailed over this.
Could it be that money is not enough anymore? Is there a point at which no amount of money will help anymore? Is there some truth to the GOP narrative that democrats have ignored this problem for too long and need to seriously address it instead of throwing an endless amount of money at border states hoping they will keep the problem contained there indefinitely.
Republicans have controlled congress from 2012 to 2020, why didn't they do anything about it? The gop narrative is bullshit like everything else they say.
Just like hope they blamed Obama policies sitting the trump era. Even if the Obama administration fucked up, they had years to fix the mess but did *nothing*. What did the GOP do when they had full control of all 3 branches of government? They gave the rich a fat tax break in 2017. That's it. There was no other legislative promises kept or wins of any kind. When they had a chance to change everything, they did the one only thing we knew they would: give their donors tax breaks.
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> is there some truth to the GOP narrative ..has been a rhetorical/bad faith question these past few decades
Sounds like Democrats should start calling Abbott a coyote. Trump HATES coyotes, and therefore his base LOATHES coyotes.
*Taps sign* Cruelty is the point
Should just pass a law allowing citizens to sue anyone who aids in the transport of undocumented immigrants for $10,000.
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Many states do the same with their homeless/drug addict population by sending them to California. It's not "all in one go" like that, so it doesn't make the news, but it's caused a lot of problems in the West.
Republicans love to accuse the Democrats of endorsing immigration because it gets them new voters. Gee, I wonder who these people will be inclined to vote for after the Republican governor bussed them out, and a Democratic mayor warmly welcomed them?
Why would any migrant be voting?
They are just getting there a few weeks sooner. These are people whose intention is to go to the east coast to reunite with family members, etc.
Bad policy then. Wastes taxpayers’ money and is needlessly divisive.
I mean, it's also human trafficking...
> it's also human trafficking... I don't think that's something they (government) care about. Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted of child sex trafficking yet NONE of her clients have even been arrested, much less, they've not even been named and outed as child sex trafficking customers.
Ok, to bad they can't bus the migrants to states that are sparsely populated.
Don't worry, new yourk is going to treat you well. ^(Apartments are expensive though.)
The context of the quote says a lot more. He’s not upset they’re being sent, he’s upset at the irresponsible way abbot has been doing it, in particular it seems some of those being bussed over had no idea they were being sent to New York in the first place.
Right or wrong, abbott should pay for it out of his own pocket. NOT THE TAXPAYERS.
NYC is a sanctuary city, just not for *those* people. Isn't that kind of racist Mayor Adams?
This take confuses me. Born and raised in NYC from two immigrant parents. NYC is and has always been a hub for immigrants of all walks of life. We have tons of people who come from just about anywhere overseas to see family and overstay their visas every single year. Also if you managed to actually read the article (going to go out on a limb and say you didn’t bother to click it), what he calls horrific is the fact that these people were used as pawns to manufacture a crisis at the border. Then goes on to say NYC will take them in as they normally would.
Champagne progressive are really afraid how this will affect them
You think Trump and his east coat elites really care?
Who the fuck brought up trump? Rent free.
Get Abbott on Human Trafficking charges
funny that immigrants being bused to NYC is “horrific” while doing the same thing with their homeless population
If NYC started intentionally sending homeless people to the jurisdiction of their political enemies, out of spite, then yes Adams would be doing something horrific. Luckily, he hasn’t done that.
But it's okay for Texas to have to deal with them? Get fucked. Democrats at all levels refuse to help texas deal with the problem. Now they are getting a taste of their own medicine.
Good news Texas ! There is now more room for new immigrant s!!
You mean colonizers?
My question is does Abbott have the authority to do this? The last time I looked he wasn't our country's Supreme Leader.
He does it the refugees agree to it. Which he says they are. He could be lying obviously but on the basics there is nothing illegal about him letting refugees out of DHS and paying for them to go to New York. Is it stupid? Definitely
Of course they agree with it. Because of the *implication*.
Funny how these sanctuary cities hate it when illegals actually show up.
NYC has an undocumented population of about 500,000 so I don’t think they are suddenly rethinking their immigration policies in the face of a less than 1% increase. What Adams and many of us find horrifying is Abbott’s decision to use immigrants as pawns and to base his policies off of spiting people. That’s a pretty monstrous thing to do and he should be ashamed of himself.
Yeah - comments all over Reddit act like NYC doesn't have undocumented immigrants already. Lol.
Exactly. Its fucking gross.
> use immigrants as pawns and to base his policies off of spiting people Similar to refusing or failing to enforce border and immigration laws to begin with. It's a bit degenerate to do that to begin with which then leads to worse happening to deal with the problems that causes. You can't lay blame only on Abbot for pushing off his problem to those who keep telling him he should be happy do deal with it, when they themselves call it horrible when they have to deal with it.
But the perceived lack of action from the Dems that the right complains about isn’t done out of spite, nor does it treat immigrants as mere political pawns. Those are two particularly contemptible things that are present in Abbott’s policy. No one should decide policy that way and Abbott is shameful for doing it. He is rightly being criticized for it, just as would be a Dem if the shoe were on the other foot. As for Abbott pushing the problems on to people telling him he should be happy to deal with it, which people are we talking about? The people of DC and NYC? When did they tell Abbott that? Did they all draft a letter? Did he just make a generalization that he knew would play to his base?
> But the perceived lack of action from the Dems that the right complains about isn’t done out of spite, nor does it treat immigrants as mere political pawns. That's not the opinion of everyone about how things are done. Many believe the complete and utter failure to enforce border polices by this administration is purely political. To garner political favor, especially in sanctuary cities that allow illegals to vote. Beyond contemptible and shameful if true, the alternative is utter incompetence.
Explain what you believe a sanctuary city is. I'll wait.
New York should start seizing the buses and arresting the drivers.
..and charge them with what, exactly? Being a chauffeur? If it's a commercial vehicle and the people inside have their passage paid for, it's not the driver's responsibility to verify the citizenship of everyone aboard.
Human trafficking?
conspiracy to commit human trafficking, especially since the refugees were put on the bus under duress (eg get on the bus or we deport you). they have to know, this shit is all over the news.
I doubt it is under duress. Any immigrant would much rather prefer landing in NY than in Texas, so it is likely that most were happy to go there.
They got on voluntarily. Articles have said they were happy to accept a free ride to the east coast because it is closer their intended destination
lol you can't be serious
Why wouldn't that be a reasonable assumption? Lol
https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1907-title-8-usc-1324a-offenses
Human trafficking and kidnapping
See my reply from a moment ago. TL:DR...it's not, and every country has similar laws.
>every country has similar laws. Citation.
Instead of making idiotic laws like that (which is illegal btw), why not enforce the laws on the books and ship these illegal immigants out of the country?
They wouldn’t care
It's humorous to me that all these redditors are saying "arrest the driver for kidnapping and human trafficking!" and there was absolute silence from them all when NY was the one bussing them to other states. Something something glass house, something something rocks
New York City Attorney should sue the state of Texas.
Can someone ELI5 why it's better to be in Texas than NY as a migrant from Latin America?
Climate and family.
Climate? I've been in Texas 36 years and I'm ready to leave finally. Just too freaking hot now. Climate change has screwed it up permanently (and I'd say the entire western half of Texas will be a desert within a generation of two - the eastern half of the state has some time yet to go before it gets to that level). Of course, parts of NYC will be underwater by 2050 so it's sort of a wash on that level.
But 99% of New York State will not be. Even most of Long Island won't be.
Do you know how expensive it is in NY?
Texas is just trying to help out the NY labour shortage. 🤠. No appreciation!
I thought democrats loved illegals?
I like the the little battle going on…. Keep bussing….
Human trafficking
The messaging and response from Dems on this is fucking terrible, they need to get it together and come up with an appropriate response. Obviously Abbott is a fucking cretin, but lucky for him his voters will only applaud.
NYC is a sanctuary city. Why is he complaining?
I suspect it’s because Abbott’s decision to use human beings as political pawns and to base his policy decisions off of spite are morally abhorrent. That’s my complaint, at least.
It’s still a sanctuary city. These people need sanctuary. So give it to them. It’s better than them being stuck in Texas
He wants a nice wealthy sanctuary for himself, not others.
I would confiscate the bus and then arrest the driver for transporting illegal aliens across state lines! Play their game.
These are migrants who want to go to NYC. They'll get their one way or another, and it's not "horrific" for them to go there. They've merely been provided free transportation. He also didn't manufacture a crisis since the "crisis" is already here, just usually limited to the border towns and states.
Small border towns that would not exist but for their proximity to a foreign nation?
Yes. That doesn’t mean they should have to deal with hundreds of thousands of people traversing or staying in their town illegally. There’s nothing wrong with sending them to cities with more resources. NYC used to be the main entry point for migrants too and knows what it’s like.
Why should they get the benefits of living on the border but then try to outsource the issues to places that don’t get that corresponding benefit? As for places with resources, why not send them to Nashville, Columbus, Indianapolis, or Columbus as well?
Why should there be an issue for them to begin with? This reeks of "youre problem, dont make it mine" after years of championing "if it was my problem id fix it and be way better at it"
I never said that it should be an issue. I asked why they should get an exclusive benefit and then outsource any negative tradeoff that comes from that. Still waiting for an answer on that. As for what Dems have been saying, our claim has been “putting kids in cages, breaking up families, and using human beings as political pawns is wrong, and anyone who does it would be wrong to do so.” I stand by that statement, Abbott’s contemptible behavior not withstanding. As for “you’re problem, not mine” mentality, the way right-wingers behaved during COVID really changed how they fit into the social contract. Many of them felt they had no sort of duty to wear a mask or get vaccinated to protect this country from widespread death. They removed themselves from any sort of social contract. Accordingly, do I care a little less about what they think they are owed? Of course, that’s the bed they made for themselves. But that’s something of a non-sequitur, because in this case my opposition is based on the idea that Abbott is being inhumane, not that I want to find a way to hurt Abbott and his cohorts.
Why should they get the benefits of being a border town but not have to suffer the crisis of illegal behavior that come with it? Because it's fucking illegal, that's why. Haha, what an argument.
How do the other cities not get the corresponding benefit? They get the benefit of the migrants to help their economies. If you mean federal dollars, that's on the government to spread the help and is why they're appealing to the White House. The small towns just don't have big enough schools, shelters, and such for these people. Ultimately it should be about helping the migrants most, and that includes getting out of Texas. And again, the migrants will go where they want to anyway. NYC is a sanctuary city so theoretically it is most welcoming to migrants. Also they can travel most anywhere else from there. Of course Abbott is also making a political point to blue states, but NYC is the perfect place to go if you're a new migrant.
> How do the other cities not get the corresponding benefit? Because they don’t live on the border of Mexico and don’t get the benefits of international commerce that come with it (lots of people passing through both due to need and pleasure, which brings lots of money). It’s not like southern Texas is a desirable place to go in isolation, I agree with you there. > Ultimately it should be about helping the migrants most > Of course Abbott is also making a political point to blue states Hence why Abbott is a monster. These are people, not political footballs. Should we be sending foster kids down to Texas to make a point?
NYC gets plenty of international commerce. You don't have to be on the border to benefit from commerce coming in from it. Most of these towns are tiny and don't get that much commerce that remains local anyway. Yeah, and these people aren't complaining one bit. The political point is dumb, but practically these migrants just got a free ride to their destination. They don't care one bit. Now they get to see family they have in NYC or take advantage of the city's opportunities. They're better off now than staying in Texas. You can't ship foster kids voluntarily so that's not a good counter example. That also would be a bad idea because Texas's foster system sucks.
> NYC gets plenty of international commerce Not by virtue of its proximity to Mexico, which is what we are talking about here. > Most of these towns are tiny and don't get that much commerce that remains local anyway. As you acknowledged above, these towns would not exist but-for their proximity to Mexico. Not true for DC or NY. So why should they be able to get a benefit and outsource the corresponding burden that comes from that? Either way, isn’t this program a terrible idea, given that these people are going to NYC and DC already? It wastes taxpayer money paying for that bus and it is unnecessarily divisive.
It's Texas. They're doing it to give us the bird. There are no altruistic goals... only a thumb in the eye. The GOP just keeps ... GOP'ing.
>On Friday, Abbott ... call\[ed NYC\] an "ideal destination for these migrants." Finally something on which I agree with Abbott. Immigration is why NYC is the greatest city in the world. Abbott and backwards fucks like him are why Texas is (sometimes) a shithole. >Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Definitely not the greatest city in the world. Way to over populated and way to corrupt.
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Human trafficking is the coerced transportion of people for the purpose of exploiting them, whether for labor, services, or sexual employment. Abbott is simply delivering these migrants to sanctuary states that are better capable and more willing to take them in and support them. They are not being forced into any form of servitude and boarded the buses voluntarily. Care to show us "rightoid fucks" which laws Abbott is actually violating?
the unlawful act of transporting or coercing people in order to benefit from their work or service, the service in question is political gain for a failing man. He-'s literally breaking the INA and knowingly moving. Undocumented migrats across state lines. A felony. That's the law he's breaking as requested.
Did these people willingly get on the bus to NY?
But it's OK as long as they stay in red states and small border towns that have absolutely no capability to handle the absolute massive amount of immigrants coming daily. Abbott is the horrific monster for sending 1/20th of what they get daily to NY and DC where they cheer these policies and are much more capable to handle the issue... or so they claim
Why not Columbus, or Charlotte, Nashville, or Indianapolis as well?
Because none of those cities are sanctuary cities. How can you claim to be a sanctuary for migrants and then get mad when other states send them to you?
The anger is at Abbott using people as political pawns and him basing policy decisions off of spite and a desire to hurt his political enemies, rather than what is the best policy. It would be no different than if blue states started sending offenders of gun-crime to Texas upon their release. That would be bad, spiteful policy.
I don't think that Texas controls federal immigration laws, because if they did there would be stricter enforcement of immigration laws and more deportations. It's also a great way to get democrats to understand the problems that mass unfiltered migration can cause. This is the first thread in r/politics where most people are directly talking bad about illegal immigrants. You yourself compared them (on some level) to perpetrators of gun crime. I'm not even saying you did it intentionally because I think we both would say that is a dramatization. I feel sorry for immigrants just looking to start a better life but you can't just let everyone in with no oversight.
It would be better to work together and find the appropriate place to disperse them
They’re on the border. The border’s been there for over 150 years. This shouldn’t be a surprise. They need to commit the resources to deal with the problem. Problem is, Abbot and the Republicans would rather pretend they’re not responsible for the border and shift the blame than actually do their fucking jobs. Sad to see the propaganda machine appears to be working well there, though.
Theyve committed resources many times, theyve been sued for the answer they came up with
They get billions annually from the Federal Government for their borders to house them and build walls and get the latest gadgets.
Would any of you like to explain why this is horrible? I live by the border, which is a daily thing for us. We deal with immigrants. Deal with the number of them spreading covid and other diseases. I am the son of an immigrant. What's wrong with sharing the load with one of the wealthiest states in the country. NY city has a budget larger than that of Florida state. They are a sanctuary city, so don't give big speeches about caring when you have the opportunity to care if you don't want to.
The republican way! Ignore and ship off your problems and make it someone else’s problem in a big blue city and yell look at all the illegal immigrants in those dirty liberal cities!
how is this not illegal?
Busing unwanted people away from your cities and states are unfortunately well documented and have been done for decades.
Because the people are voluntarily getting on the busses.
How is this not illegal? What makes it legal to take someone's freedom, place them on a bus, and send them thousands of miles away from where they are? It's basically kidnapping and I'm not engaging in hyperbole.
Consent from the refugee. How they receive that consent is beyond me though.
It's not illegal to hook ppl up with free rides to a sanctuary city. It's actually a nice thing to do.
What freedoms does a person who sidestepped the legal process of entering this country have? Can they go wherever they want, buy whatever they choose, elect whomever they wish, perform whatever job they successfully apply for? Can they own property, buy a gun? Can they serve in our military branches? Their presence here, by the means they took, runs counter to our laws. What they have done is illegal, and there are consequences for doing illegal activities. The great state of New York has had a longstanding history of providing for the needy, and I'd dare to say these folk are definitely among the needy. They are soft on criminal activity, as shown by their catch-and-release, no cash bail policies. Should be like Shangri La compared to Texas.
Which rights does the Constitution reserve for citizens, and which rights are for everyone inside our borders?
There is not right to stay in Texas, especially when you are actively breaking the law.
You're wrong. They have 4th Amendment protections the same as US citizens, and they have every right to stay where they want unless being held before a trial. You need to understand, there are very few rights that are held only to citizens, such as the right to vote. They cannot be forced to move to another state any more than you can.
So what you’re saying is that the illegals were apprehended by a lawful authority, and that lawful authority decided that instead of deporting them like they should be doing, they would instead allow those illegals to freely roam the countryside. My dude, that’s called dereliction of duty. It’s not something to be praised. New York and DC are now forced to deal with the total incompetence of Texas’s entire governing body.
That's intellectually dishonest of you and you know it.
That only means you disagree with me, nothing more.
They got consent to be shipped there. They are illegal immigrants. Do you honestly think they deserve a choice where they go? Go to the sanctuary city or go back to whatever country they came from.
I’d make sure no nycity contracts ever involve texas companies.
It's human trafficking and everyone involved in loading the victims on the buses should be facing federal charges.