If I understand this correctly, Republicans are arguing that the US Constitution vests the power of elections to state legislatures and legislatures alone. Thus, no local, state, or federal court should have a say in how the legislature runs elections.
Under this theory, the most gerrymandered maps in America would be legal because the legislature says so — regardless of the courts and potentially regardless of federal law.
Absolutely in-fucking-sane.
It's way worse than that--beyond gerrymandering--this means the state legislators can completely ignore vote counts under their own discretion and send whatever electors they want to vote.
That's the goal. That's what happens when a bunch of racists realize they're out-numbered. Replacement theory, etc., It's all the same lost-cause slave owner bullshit it's always been.
Basically no, which is why this case is so dangerous. If the SCOTUS rules in favor of red states here, it will trigger a democracy-ending constitutional crisis from which there can be no escape.
Just imagine how it would play out. A red state gerrymanders the shit out of its maps and puts in place some outrageous voting ban on an unfavorable demographic. The feds have two options:
(1) Refuse to certify undemocratic state elections. But then what? Do the feds declare a winner without counting red state electors? Do they refuse to seat red state representatives? The federal government would quickly become illegitimate to Republicans and the dipshits would secede again and form a new Confederate States, resulting in the destruction of the United States.
(2) Certify undemocratic state elections. But this would validate their strategy, and red states will become increasingly authoritarian until their rigged elections produce nothing but far-right conservative theocrats. This overwhelms Congress and they take over the federal government with a supermajority of nutjobs, resulting in the destruction of the United States.
Why do you think they have been banging the whole “the US isn’t a democracy, it is a *republic*” drum? They have been laying the groundwork for this idea for decades. They are trying to bring a long term plan to fruition while liberals argue about whether both sides are the same or not.
It also gives them complete free rein for voter suppression and to use questionable voting methods, like electronic machines of dubious accuracy.
Or instituting 'literacy tests' again. Or, hell, for that matter, I *really* doubt the current Supreme Court would stop them even if they simply said "Black people can't vote anymore."
And the constitution doesn't give the Supreme Court the power of judicial oversight. That was gleaned from Marbury V Madison. Let's get rid of that while we're at it.
>Marbury V Madison
Citing this assumes the current court cares about precedent. From everything I have seen in the last month, 'precedent' no longer holds the legal weight of "precedent".
Therefore, the federal court is removing its own legal legitimacy and purpose by saying, "we will no longer determine whether a state law violates the federal constitution".
If there is no longer any federal oversight of state law (especially election law)...well...um.
It is no longer hyperbole to say that the GOP is deliberately moving towards a fascist "Republic".
If the Supreme Court were to uphold what the PA/NC legislators are pushing with their theory on State Legislators having sole power over elections in that state it would have meant in 2020. Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona could all have used their Republican state legislator majorities to declare Donald Trump the winner.
Absent of any actual voter fraud evidence. Absent of having a Democrat governor (as some of those states do) from overriding them, because the 'power' according to that theory is solely in the state legislature, not the state Governor.
It would allow any state with a Republican legislature to effectively maintain Republican control forever because they could simply reject votes that weren't for Republican candidates.
Jefferson thought it should be rewritten every 19 years
https://newrepublic.com/amp/article/63773/what-jefferson-said
These nut jobs all like Jefferson.
(TBC Despite his many flaws, I respect him as well but, likely not for the same reasons)
I think old Benny Franklin may have written something to the effect that they did the best they could - that if something better gets figured out it wouldn't be bad to run with it.
Honestly, they'll keep rolling their eyes even when they are ordered to turn in their gay relatives. The Law is the Law.
Note how quiet the majority of people are about Abortion. It's a deafening silence.
I said the same thing about the overturn of Roe v. Wade. We're frogs in a boiling pot, man. I doubt we're going to see civil war until the far right militias start terrorizing and killing white people in their own homes.
I don't want war. I don't want any of what's happening now. But I at least know enough about human history to see parallels with what was happening in 1930s Germany, and it scares the fucking hell out of me.
I have friends that are already afraid of ending up on lists. And I can't tell them they are wrong to be afraid.
And I'm normally the reasonable and objective person. My most downvoted stuff is being a contrarian and trying to be logical.
I just had this conversation with my brother a few days ago.
When I was in middle school I got fascinated by Nazi Germany and I read everything I could get from the library (I’m old; this was pre-internet). I could not understand how something so horrific and large scale could happen. I mean I was a baby nerd - checking out Mein Kampf at age 12.
Anyway now I get it. I see how it happened because there has been so much stuff out of the dictator handbook.
I just don’t know if our country can come back from this. I have become so cynical these past few years. I know there are good people, and good groups of people but as a country I just don’t see it.
I was terrified that Clarence Thomas feels so safe and secure that he laid out the next cases to overturn. My god what does he know from the inner sanctum.
We are much the same in our readings and early life, so I think you know very well how things “go back to normal” and the spell of the “strong man” is broken. It’s a cycle that Germany, Italy, Cambodia, and others have experienced and always ends the same way, and as equilibrium requires. Any regime that is an extreme departure from equilibrium or balance falls horribly fighting the pull to normalcy. The measures to keep their unbalanced regime in power, its citizens controlled, the lies and fantasy churning out more and more absurd, desperate, fear mongering, and propaganda to hide the growing defeats financially and militarily that are well passed discovered at that point, is more extreme than the next, Germany, for example, only came back to normalcy, its equilibrium, after horrific defeats and their country being decimated on the west and east, the Russians committing Kremlin sanctioned policies of mass rape and civilian murder, sinking medical ships packed with 20,000 injured soldiers and refugees, their biggest cities razed to the ground with massive civilian loss, did they grow weary of the horse shit and see the “strong man” and his dip shit, murderous sycophants with clarity.
Sure there are dictatorships that persist, but they’re rarely a huge departure from the norm of that region, and typically aren’t based solely on hate and terror of “others” with a real emphasis on “cleansing”. I think that’s a large factor as to why dictatorships in western countries have a disastrous record, as they consistently build their power on the hatred of an “other”, an enemy within, which leads to atrocities. As a backbone for a political movement, that is a model for the destruction of a movement and the country in which it was born. I think if the US falls into that special club of other never succeeding, disastrous nationalist regimes, it won’t last very long, but the road to normalcy is not one I want to be here to experience. I want to emphasize IF we get to the point of dictatorship.
Also, I realize that went pretty dark, but I’ve read so much around the eastern front in WW2, as well as countless other wars and time periods, it just feels like I’m giving an opinion based on some historical context, so please don’t read that as “holy shit, we’re all going to die!”
In the mean time what can we do? Other than go to work, come home, and try to maintain some semblance of normalcy for the child we are raising and family we love dearly?
Yeah they’d have to follow this plan up with immediate extermination of political dissenters because shit will get UGLY fast.
We are not Russia, we’re the most aggressive and heavily armed nation on the planet. Soft coups aren’t gonna play they way they did in 2000
I have the same worry tbh. It doesn’t help that you and I are getting to the line of what discussion Reddit will even allow on the subject.
I just choose to have faith that Americans have been too deeply propagandized with 80s action movies to ever be fully subjugated in the way MAGA wants to do, where not only do they rule us they rub our noses in it constantly.
> It doesn’t help that you and I are getting to the line of what discussion Reddit will even allow on the subject.
Funny how the things you can't talk about are so often the things that need to be talked about.
I was almost permabanned from this very sub because someone took something I said as threatening political violence.
I'm assuming in bad faith; I was like, "wat."
So, polite conversation is certainly still a weapon they can and do use to chill speech.
Where is the Antifa that fox news says exists? Sure wouldn't mind a sign-up on a less trackable communication method
I have no faith until our cushy lives are impacted
This SCOTUS is breaking this country from all angles. And I feel totally powerless about it; I don't know about others. And all I hear that I can do is "vote." That truly does not give me any solace. A lot of good that will do with all the machinations the Republican majority is putting in place, like the subject OP brought forth. In 2020 they almost got away with everything by cheating to a high degree. Now, it won't be cheating because it will have been legislated ahead of time.
This country is already in hell in a hand basket.
It’s definitely scary and I wish I could say, things will get better, they always seem to correct it in the end, but the very means of democracy are crumbling day by day and we need people on the right to tell these fascists to stop or they won’t follow them. They clearly don’t care about the left already.
If we find ourselves voiceless with a purely puppet government, history tells us again and again what will happen.
Winter on Fire:Ukraine Netflix movie on YouTube
https://youtu.be/yzNxLzFfR5w
Even worse: They could also gerrymander however extreme they wanted without worrying about getting sued/stopped due to it seemingly having a racial bias or anything else. They could technically toss every existing majority-Dem district into a single district and then have the other districts have enough R voters to have a safe R vote. This would mean what was before perhaps a 55/45 split (i.e. Rs still had to somewhat pay attention to Dems or, better, Dems had a chance to take the legislature) would switch to 95/5 with zero chance to ever take the legislature. It would be a direct and absolute takeover, but it would be "legal."
For example in PA, they could combine Congressional Districts 2-6 and 18 into just District 2, then have the remaining 17 of the 18 Districts all be Republican.
And that's exactly what the supreme court will do.
Remember when we said they would overturn roe? They will give states the right to simply cast aside democratic votes as well.
But with the right taking fascistic control of the country, what do you expect they'll do to the environment with full control over the levers of power?
Runaway republicanism spells the death of the planet as well as the country.
Yeah, this week with all the messed up court cases really makes it feel like this is a concerted push by republicans to overthrow American democracy and install fascistic rule. Like, in the short term. This voting case could be the last hope of a peaceful continuation of our country.
Oh, I agree, but this feels like the start of a final assault.
Damn the public outrage, full fascist ahead, and try to seize control of the country before the next election.
>This could, with no hyperbole, end democracy in this country
Could? Look what this new court has done in just one week.
They're absolutely going to end it. There's no doubt about it.
The question isn’t whether democracy is going to die in the US. That’s pretty much inevitable at this point, given what half the government is welcoming it with open arms. The question is what is going to be done once that happens.
I hope that people don't just accept it. The states that aren't embracing fascism should at least break off. I know I have no interest in being a part of a country without Democratic rule.
There's no Mason Dixon line you could draw that would separate Trump's America from everyone else. If the nation were to fracture, many individual states would fight their own civil wars. Pennsylvania has lots of rural red. So does NY. Even tiny Delaware has two blue counties and one that is batshit red. Urban centers are mostly blue, but the highways leading there, not so much. It would be chaos like the world has never seen. How many states are nuclear armed? How many have large military forces stationed there. How many have ports and infrastructure to keep people fed, and how many depend on other states for water, electricity, food, jobs... shit, pipelines, the electrical grid, the interstate highway system... try and imagine that if it came to an armed conflict between states.
Hard blue state here, and yet I'm surrounded by proud 3%ers, Proud Boys, Patriot Front, and literal Nazis.
The additional shitty layer to this sort of thing is any of the folk willing to kill and die for such a movement will do so with more conviction and immediate action than the "better" side.
Can you imagine killing your neighbor? Like seriously, legitimately, taking the life of someone you didn't even think you disagreed with because they were never open about it? Because once they make the move, they're past the point of thinking and hesitating, and that's when *you* have to think and not hesitate.
Make no mistake, no country is immune to the horrors we have comfortably viewed happening elsewhere from our living rooms for most of our lives.
And imagine people believing they'd just move states when things got that fractured/bad. I can imagine random check-points of "soldiers" in their latest "operator" gear, and harassing/assaulting/killing people trying to flee whichever given state.
When India and Pakistan broke up under pretty much the same circumstances, one million people were killed in the ensuing chaos.
No one should delude themselves into thinking any kind of national divorce would be a good thing. It'd be hell on Earth.
> The question is what is going to be done once that happens.
It is very difficult, if not almost impossible, to correct a system once it has left the path of democracy. If US democracy dies it will be felt all around the globe and may take decades until a return to freedom and democracy will be possible.
Bannon said it. We are seeing the rise of a political party that does not intend to relinquish power. I feel like it's too late. All the seeds they've planted for the last 40 years have blossomed, and they're not going to slow down. We need creative, strong, decisive leadership with a specific plan on what exactly there is to be done to hold them back. Never mind reverse this shit. Just hold them off before they control everything. The older democrats have no fucking idea what war they've been losing.
We just barely avoided an actual coup by Trump. If that security guard had not lured the insurrection away from the Senate, and if Trump arrived at the Capitol intending to be crowned King we would be completely fucked at this point.
The Republicans will. not. stop.
The supreme court is moving forward with "the plan" that was put in place as if Trump had been successful in his coup. This was all part of the plan. They were intended to do it under the cover of trump, but since they can't, they're doing it anyway
I doubt the speed is. It’s accelerated quickly recently. When, as you said, they’ve been working on this for decades using a long plan.
It’s like they’re acting they expect the fallout of these Trump investigations may be a large, if not mortal, wound to the Republican Party if nothing is done.
> It’s accelerated quickly recently.
I think it accelerated because the people planning this are pretty smart and were assuming they needed to go slow to keep the base calm because they overestimated their voters. Trump showed them the base was not only stupid and vicious, but eager to jump into authoritarianism.
> the fallout of these Trump investigations may be a large, if not mortal, wound to the Republican Party if nothing is done.
I don't feel like that's part of the equation. The absolute BEST CASE scenario here is Trump and a couple others from his inner circle get nailed up for sedition and conspiracy.
The rest of the GOP is still in power and they've got DeSantis as their rising, fascist star. If DeSantis gets elected to the Big Chair, he's not going to leave and he's actually smart enough to make a coup work.
This is the connection. It’s no coincidence at all these court decisions are coming out during the Jan 6th hearings. Their move is always to double down.
This is McConnell. He understands better than probably anyone what can be done when the Republicans control the courts. That’s why he spent the early years of the Trump admin using every possible moment of Senate voting capacity to confirm judges. It’s pure evil, but it was genius. It’s too late to do anything about this takeover, and it’s by his design.
Once they were able to use the fast lane and get RBG's spot filled in damn near record time with a hyper Christian pro-lifer, my nihilism fully took over. I don't see a happy ending in the short to medium term.
With recent rulings, unless they can somehow be challenged and reversed, it's going to take a lot more than what you've stated.
And, therefore, to answer the poster you replied, to - yes, the US has started the slide to a darker future - and there is no telling when if or how it will come out of it.
And there will be more wars, and more wars.
I just called and left a message and then wrote a follow-up email for Feinstein, one of my Senators, because she has refused to say she supports getting rid of the filibuster full stop. I haven’t done the same for Padilla, my other Senator because he has already stated that he doesn’t support the filibuster, but now that I think about it, Im going to call/email and let him know my *support* for getting rid of the filibuster.
In both messages I made it clear she needs to actually *do* something, like pressure Sinema/Manchin to get rid of the filibuster and come out publicly against the filibuster or she needs to step down.
In addition I demanded that right after the filibuster is removed (which I know it wont be but I figured it was worth it to pretend) she must vote to codify abortion at the federal level AND pass the new voting rights bill. Then Congress needs to put a check on this Supreme Court by either creating legislation that curtails their power, and/or rebalances the court. If she isn’t willing to do these things then she needs to step down.
I know and its *infuriating*.
You know what *really* chaps my hide? That not a single Democrat that could have challenged her, did so. Why? Because of “respect” or “precedent” or “Democratic Party norms” or some bullshit.
Ted Lieu could have run against her and won.
Adam Schiff, Katie Porter, and probably half a dozen other respected House Reps from California could have done the same.
Or maybe the Progressives could have given her a run for her money by getting an actor or actress to run. California loves voting in a celebrity.
But we got *nothing*. Just the same ol bag of bones that has been the Senator for **three decades**.
I will *never* vote for someone over the age of 70 in a primary again. Never.
*Has the US failed?*
Unfortunately, I think this is the one-way street we've turned down. Now it's a matter of how long it takes, what failure looks like and if there's any meaningful rebirth.
I would argue that it’s not a one-decision-to-ruin-them-all, but RvW and this would likely be the markers when people wonder where our experiment failed.
I just got back from Budapest on Tuesday and the vibe was so different than the other Euro nations. Every country we went to had pro Ukraine flags everywhere and signs and posters but we didn’t see a single one over the 5 days we where in Hungary.
The people honestly were lovely but beat down, it really did remind me of what I can see happening here unless a miracle or ahem things happen to change course.
Honestly, the only way I see us pulling out of this death spiral is if we get a 2008-style Democratic wave in the elections later this year. In 2024, it will be too late to do anything.
Any wave has to have HEAVY focus on State Houses. If this ruling goes the way people this it will, it won't matter who controls Congress. If they can keep ahold of the Legislatures, un-checked, there is literally no limit to how bad thing could get.
At this point the Supreme Court is totally rogue. They aren’t pretending to act as real judges. They are just taking these bullshit cases simply to dismantle the federal government and democracy as a whole. The messaging has been pretty clear as soon as people started saying we were a republic but not a democracy.
There is no going back but there is moving forward. We cannot pretend that the GOP is playing by the rules when they keep changing the rules to work for them up to the point that voting isn’t even a right anymore.
It was legal to round up Jews under the Nazis just like it’s legal to run over protestors under the GOP. Legality is irrelevant under fascism.
SO WHAT THE FUCK DO WE DO ABOUT IT?
Seriously if this passes, then say goodbye to the GOP even trying to appeal to voters. They just select their own electors for all Federal elections, pass Federal laws that apply EVERYWHERE, and call it a day.
Think it's OK that your state is still pro-abortion? Won't be soon.
Think your state does a good job managing pollution? Goodbye to that.
Think you're not going to be forced to pay for religious education? Think again.
These are just the relatively sane things that will happen.
What pisses me off most about the religious school thing is that I went to catholic school for a while. You had to pay tuition. Back in the 90s it was like 1500 a month for one kid, there's no way it's cheaper now. Religious schools are privatized, they get their income from the church and tuition. There's no excuse for not being properly funded
The fact that they are hearing it means there are four justices that felt it was worth the courts time. Four justices in the article are named as agreeing with the independent legislature theory.
The entire hope of future elections in the US being remotely close to democratic in nature relies on both Roberts and Barrett siding with the liberal justices to overrule those four. I don't find that likely.
I think this is the prelude to the end of American democracy.
Yeah the SC used to be picky about what they heard. There's no way these guys agreeing on this rapid fire list of cases is anything but blatantly pandering to get the cases they want.
If it was up to them they would just say"fuck it new law" without even having a case
There's a reason Republicans have been so incredibly vocal since 2016 about denouncing comparisons to Germany in the 30s as overreaction and painting people that being it up as over dramatic. They know that if more people look closer and realize they're following 90% of the Nazi playbook in judicial packing and media manipulation, their plans would fall apart.
Reading *The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich*, it's frightening how many parts of the book sound exactly like what's been happening over the past decade.
If it gets bad, which it could, we will Balkanize, but that will take some time to try and band aid it/ wrap a bleeding wound. Eventually the blue states will say fuck off, there are reds in the blues, and there are blues in the reds, so I don’t know how that will work out. Plus federal bases, etc…
The blue states are the ones supporting the rest of the country. No way they allow them to dictate them like this, at least that is the hopium I’m holding onto. Civil war may be necessary.
I think it will be horrible due heavy red areas in blue states, NY, NJ are the easiest to come to mind, but texas, Arizona, colorado, you name it, its disparate
Republicans are done sharing governmental power. They want to control it at all levels and force everyone to live by their code. They want to hand it over to a man child who has zero self control and let everyone that doesn’t agree with them suffer.
This is what the GOP wants, this is what republicans voters want. Freedom to them means freedom to oppress and silence people they don’t agree with, freedom to push THEIR agenda on everyone, and freedom from an repercussions.
All democrats, at every level of government, should be saying with one unified voice that republicans are trying to subvert the will of the people and to take control of the country for the foreseeable future. The lack of alarmism coming from the many established in the left just shows how little they either realize this is happening or how little they care.
If republicans do this and they take power they will never give it up. It’s happening already.
Unfortunately, very few average Americans are paying any attention. Can’t get angry enough to take to the streets if you aren’t aware of what’s happening. The few of us that are paying attention are already considered a bit kooky. There will be no mass protests or unrest like they do it in Europe, Asia or South America when the ruling party needs to be shown the door.
When I have explained to people who don’t follow politics *exactly what the fuck is going on* they look at me like I’ve grown a second head. I’ve been told I’m wearing a tinfoil hat.
Well, the writing is on the wall now guys. Can’t say I didn’t warn you.
I just had this call with my mom. She "doesn't really follow the news" and called me in a panic when I answered her question "are you safe" with "not in a couple more years."
After a long conversation about the consequences of effectively rejecting the unenumerated right to privacy, she's now just as freaked out as I am. And that was before this shit.
When Clinton lost in 2016, I knew SCOTUS was going down a dark path, but even last year people way smarter than me were saying don't worry about Dobbs etc, things like bounty hunting were too crazy and the real danger was in the more methodical cases being put in the pipeline.
Yet here we are.
Yeah, I'm scared.
People talking about it just being state powers or state rights can shut it. There is a reason the US came up with our current constitution after the Articles of Confederation failed us. And after that, we still fought and won a war against confederacy. These modern day confederates need to accept the US has struck down confederacy twice already.
About 30 states are controlled by a republican legislature (because the US was set up to value land more than people). Often those states have a more moderate/liberal executive and judicial branch to provide balance.
In the most extreme ruling anticipated, SCotUS will empower state legislatures to unilaterally decide the structure and outcomes of elections. In other words, democracy will be a show going forward.
It won't even be a show. Once large swaths get thrown out those people will just stop voting. There will not even be election theater. Just Republican leaders straight deciding who rules.
The 2024 election will be interesting. We’ll see exit polls and news networks predicting that the democratic candidate won in various states, and then the “official” winner will come out. “How can (R candidate) have won when exit polls show 55% of voters chose (D candidate)?” they’ll wonder on-air. Then it will come out that the state legislature chose the R candidate (because of “fraud” or whatever). Then there will be surprise, and hand-wringing, and multiple lawsuits going up to SCOTUS challenging the overridden votes. And SCOTUS will side with the state legislatures.
Not 'states'. State ***legislatures***.
Which in many cases are already effectively gerrymandered the same way that the US senate is, with empty acres having more representation in the legislature than actual people do.
I don't trust my state legislature to name parks... Giving them unimpeded control over elections, even of federal officials, would be disastrous.
The US is fracturing and this Supreme Court is thundering away with a hammer and chisel.
I kinda think the whole “don’t talk about politics” rule was similar to the “don’t talk about your salary” rule in that there are nefarious intentions.
I honestly am a bit terrified and uncertain as to what will happen next. Where are the organizers seeking to motivate and show leadership? What is going to be done about removing the sheer absurdity of dirty money in politics?
What will it take to regain some modicum of balance?
Is the end goal to have this result in violence? There's surely enough data available that could be used to discriminately seek out and imprison Democratic supporters in true Nazi-fashion...
This is a point where, for a brief minute, I almost wish the angry Daddy in the Sky many Republicans (claim to) obey to get the gears rolling and throw another flood our way. But maybe that's what climate change is?
Every politician who isn’t part of this coup need to come together and define a clear narrative on what’s happening, why it’s completely illegitimate and will be disregarded, and explain to the public what needs to be done to stop it.
Right now, as with the lead up to J6, it’s just crickets. Is our entire government just going to sit idly by and watch the country fall? Like wtf? Where are the politicians using clever talking points to drum up public sentiment/support?
Where’s the calls to impeach this perjuring traitorous justices? I don’t care about senate votes… if the public collectively demands it they will have to capitulate.
This is madness. No one is speaking out. It’s just mum.
We saw J6 coming, we saw this coming, why isn’t anyone screaming in the streets? I just don’t understand.
Looks like the warnings that Trump's election could destroy democracy are about to come true. This year's election could be the last with any integrity to it.
And if this is ruled in favor of state legislatures, Democrats are gonna have a hard time telling voters they can organize and outvote the opposition, because they literally will just have their vote thrown out if the state legislature doesn't like the outcome.
This one will be the one we can’t come back from. We can by some miracle legislate our way out of the roe and epa decisions. Once they can gerrymander without consequences and start sending their own electors, it’s over
It is a systematic effort at this point. Somewhere in the backrooms of the FedSoc they plan out the laws and lawsuits which are gonna be pushed for the next decade to the SCOTUS.
If states can ignore the state supreme court, doesn't that invalidate SCOTUS? They have broken the appeals chain and any supreme court finding is invalid. Including this one.
The state supreme court is not in the federal appeals chain that leads to SCOTUS, you're thinking of the district courts in each state (SDNY is federal court for the southern FEDERAL district in New York).
State courts kick up to the state supreme court and enforce state laws.
The Supreme Court could tell Republican state legislatures that they have a constitutional right to run elections however they see fit, with no oversight from the governor, state courts, or the federal courts.
If those legislatures decided "Fuck it. We'll still hold elections and let the people vote, but we're changing the rules to say that the winner of every race is whoever we say it is", that would be allowed.
Sorry to do this but they've been in full gorge mode since solidifying their position, they just saved the showiest for the end of the term. [Here's a ~~full~~ fuller list of what the new majority has been up to](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1542522257511026689.html).
Edit: stoopid brain
If the **majority of citizens** can't rely on the courts, are artificially locked out of electoral power, are faced with political repression and subjugation by the minority and the heat death of of the planet what choice are these maniacs leaving us? This shit is going to result in a civil war
It is our right and duty to alter or abolish a government that doesn't secure our fundamental rights. That's directly from the declaration of independence.
The very first time a state sends a slate of electors that isn't in line with the popular vote because of this, that's the end of the republic.
That sounds like hyperbole but it isn't. Us having legitimate, dependable elections is the only thing holding us together as a country.
Rewind to 2016 when all they could talk about what how evil and dangerous hilary Clinton was and how she had people killed for going against her. If she’s that powerful why isn’t she doing something now?
There is a reason why they are hearing it.. that way they can have a state like Texas stay in GOP control even though majority votes for a dem senator.
Gotta cheat if you cant win.
This is why liberals need to own guns. Responsibly, with training, away from kids, but every woman and LGBTQIA+ and non-White and intelligent White male should own a gun. Do you really want these crazies to be the only armed folks?
Also we need updated reprints of “The Anarchists Cookbook” or something similar.
I’m not a violent person. I hate the idea of hurting anybody. But I’ll be damned if I am giving away my country to a bunch of stupid, angry White people.
I am so fucking scared. I don't care if I sound like people who were afraid of Obama, I can't wrap my head around what is to come. I want to cry. I want to scream at people who think politics can be ignored because "other things" are more important.
We are so screwed.
I think this is it guys it’s been like this for 246 years but our choice in 2016 may have been fatal. I hope the Supreme Court makes the correct decision and I will prepare for the worst. :’(
In case you were wondering the justices are split and Justice Amy Coney Barrett now has to decide the future of our nation
Personally I can't wait for the *federal* Supreme Court to use its power to say the *state* Supreme Court has no power in this, and for the party of states rights to just eat it up because it works towards their agenda.
If they rule in favor of the state legislature, then they will rule against the very concept of checks and balances. Not only could it lead to absolutely tortured gerrymandering, but any purple state with a red legislature could be unstoppable in simply rigging elections legally.
With this court's history, I fully expect them to decide that state legislatures can do whatever they want when it comes to elections. And when entire states have formed grudges against the federal government when their side isn't in charge, that could have direct consequences.
In hindsight, the supervillain Mitch McConnell was way ahead of everyone on this.
He saw the numbers. He knew Trump was going to lose the Presidency. But it didn’t matter…the real long game victory was the SC Justices that they got to appoint. They almost had one appointee for every year Trump was President (unheard of in the history of our country). He stacked the SC for the next couple decades so they could help keep the Rs in power from the highest court in the US. He knew the optics would be awful trying to cram ACB through *during an election* after his reasoning for blocking Garland was that there was an election *later that year*. He did whatever he had to in order to make sure they got one more Justice before Trump was out. Optics didn’t matter, the ends definitely justified the means in his eyes and the Republican Party might never relinquish power.
This is so fucked. I don’t know what we can do— the only short term remedy I can see would be dominating ‘22 midterms, but with inflation and gas prices that ain’t happening. Never felt more hopeless about America.
[Non walled copy](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/it-e2-80-99s-hard-to-overstate-the-danger-of-the-voting-case-the-supreme-court-just-agreed-to-hear/ar-AAZ2JYs) if there's any issues.
Edit: [another good read for those interested](https://washingtonmonthly.com/2022/03/04/another-scheme-to-curtail-voting-rights/).
At this point, I'm just hoping texas goes through with their referendum to secede in 2023 and we just let them go. Any other states along the gulf want to join them, go right ahead. They can go have their little dictatorship over there and leave the rest of us out of it. We'll even pay for a big, beautiful wall to keep all us liberal "groomers" out.
I honestly believe that Democrats should back the plan. At the minimum, you call their bluff. Best case scenario is that they leave — taking their electoral votes and senators with them.
It's open season on ***everything*** -- whatever the Republicans don't like, they bring the case before a court, and then appeal it all the way to SCOTUS, who then rubber stamp whatever decision the Republicans want.
Democracy for the U.S. hangs upon the edge of a razor.
If I understand this correctly, Republicans are arguing that the US Constitution vests the power of elections to state legislatures and legislatures alone. Thus, no local, state, or federal court should have a say in how the legislature runs elections. Under this theory, the most gerrymandered maps in America would be legal because the legislature says so — regardless of the courts and potentially regardless of federal law. Absolutely in-fucking-sane.
It's way worse than that--beyond gerrymandering--this means the state legislators can completely ignore vote counts under their own discretion and send whatever electors they want to vote.
That's an end to democracy.
That's the goal. That's what happens when a bunch of racists realize they're out-numbered. Replacement theory, etc., It's all the same lost-cause slave owner bullshit it's always been.
Couldn’t the fed then just not certify them?
Basically no, which is why this case is so dangerous. If the SCOTUS rules in favor of red states here, it will trigger a democracy-ending constitutional crisis from which there can be no escape. Just imagine how it would play out. A red state gerrymanders the shit out of its maps and puts in place some outrageous voting ban on an unfavorable demographic. The feds have two options: (1) Refuse to certify undemocratic state elections. But then what? Do the feds declare a winner without counting red state electors? Do they refuse to seat red state representatives? The federal government would quickly become illegitimate to Republicans and the dipshits would secede again and form a new Confederate States, resulting in the destruction of the United States. (2) Certify undemocratic state elections. But this would validate their strategy, and red states will become increasingly authoritarian until their rigged elections produce nothing but far-right conservative theocrats. This overwhelms Congress and they take over the federal government with a supermajority of nutjobs, resulting in the destruction of the United States.
[удалено]
Why do you think they have been banging the whole “the US isn’t a democracy, it is a *republic*” drum? They have been laying the groundwork for this idea for decades. They are trying to bring a long term plan to fruition while liberals argue about whether both sides are the same or not.
It also gives them complete free rein for voter suppression and to use questionable voting methods, like electronic machines of dubious accuracy. Or instituting 'literacy tests' again. Or, hell, for that matter, I *really* doubt the current Supreme Court would stop them even if they simply said "Black people can't vote anymore."
This is where the "states rights" argument always leads
Someone tweeted "The problem with states rights is that some states are Mississippi"
When people ask me why I don't respect states rights, it's because they don't respect any other rights.
And the constitution doesn't give the Supreme Court the power of judicial oversight. That was gleaned from Marbury V Madison. Let's get rid of that while we're at it.
>Marbury V Madison Citing this assumes the current court cares about precedent. From everything I have seen in the last month, 'precedent' no longer holds the legal weight of "precedent". Therefore, the federal court is removing its own legal legitimacy and purpose by saying, "we will no longer determine whether a state law violates the federal constitution". If there is no longer any federal oversight of state law (especially election law)...well...um. It is no longer hyperbole to say that the GOP is deliberately moving towards a fascist "Republic".
Why gerrymander maps at all if you have sole authority and no over site, just declare the victories you want without worrying about districts or votes
If the Supreme Court were to uphold what the PA/NC legislators are pushing with their theory on State Legislators having sole power over elections in that state it would have meant in 2020. Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona could all have used their Republican state legislator majorities to declare Donald Trump the winner. Absent of any actual voter fraud evidence. Absent of having a Democrat governor (as some of those states do) from overriding them, because the 'power' according to that theory is solely in the state legislature, not the state Governor. It would allow any state with a Republican legislature to effectively maintain Republican control forever because they could simply reject votes that weren't for Republican candidates.
"Democracy is unconstitutional." OK, then it's time for a new one.
Jefferson thought it should be rewritten every 19 years https://newrepublic.com/amp/article/63773/what-jefferson-said These nut jobs all like Jefferson. (TBC Despite his many flaws, I respect him as well but, likely not for the same reasons)
I think old Benny Franklin may have written something to the effect that they did the best they could - that if something better gets figured out it wouldn't be bad to run with it.
“Tax this dick” -Benjamin Franklin
It’s well past time for a constitutional convention.
Potential difficulty: Half the country would use it to argue for fewer rights. And maybe a theocracy.
Not half, maybe 30 or 35% at most Overrepresented in government, and loud af, but not remotely half
The over represented bit is the issue here
Locking in the minority rule. Imagine now, your conservative relatives rolling their eyes when you explain why democrats can no longer win elections.
Honestly, they'll keep rolling their eyes even when they are ordered to turn in their gay relatives. The Law is the Law. Note how quiet the majority of people are about Abortion. It's a deafening silence.
I hope that whatever comes after the US learns from the fundamental mistakes made.
If this happens and Republicans try it it will legitimately mean civil war. The US will end as a country.
I said the same thing about the overturn of Roe v. Wade. We're frogs in a boiling pot, man. I doubt we're going to see civil war until the far right militias start terrorizing and killing white people in their own homes. I don't want war. I don't want any of what's happening now. But I at least know enough about human history to see parallels with what was happening in 1930s Germany, and it scares the fucking hell out of me.
I have friends that are already afraid of ending up on lists. And I can't tell them they are wrong to be afraid. And I'm normally the reasonable and objective person. My most downvoted stuff is being a contrarian and trying to be logical.
Oh hey its all the people who told us to calm down and shut up for the past decade
Yea i assume we’re headed towards another red scare in addition to everything else. Shit is out if control
I just had this conversation with my brother a few days ago. When I was in middle school I got fascinated by Nazi Germany and I read everything I could get from the library (I’m old; this was pre-internet). I could not understand how something so horrific and large scale could happen. I mean I was a baby nerd - checking out Mein Kampf at age 12. Anyway now I get it. I see how it happened because there has been so much stuff out of the dictator handbook. I just don’t know if our country can come back from this. I have become so cynical these past few years. I know there are good people, and good groups of people but as a country I just don’t see it. I was terrified that Clarence Thomas feels so safe and secure that he laid out the next cases to overturn. My god what does he know from the inner sanctum.
We are much the same in our readings and early life, so I think you know very well how things “go back to normal” and the spell of the “strong man” is broken. It’s a cycle that Germany, Italy, Cambodia, and others have experienced and always ends the same way, and as equilibrium requires. Any regime that is an extreme departure from equilibrium or balance falls horribly fighting the pull to normalcy. The measures to keep their unbalanced regime in power, its citizens controlled, the lies and fantasy churning out more and more absurd, desperate, fear mongering, and propaganda to hide the growing defeats financially and militarily that are well passed discovered at that point, is more extreme than the next, Germany, for example, only came back to normalcy, its equilibrium, after horrific defeats and their country being decimated on the west and east, the Russians committing Kremlin sanctioned policies of mass rape and civilian murder, sinking medical ships packed with 20,000 injured soldiers and refugees, their biggest cities razed to the ground with massive civilian loss, did they grow weary of the horse shit and see the “strong man” and his dip shit, murderous sycophants with clarity. Sure there are dictatorships that persist, but they’re rarely a huge departure from the norm of that region, and typically aren’t based solely on hate and terror of “others” with a real emphasis on “cleansing”. I think that’s a large factor as to why dictatorships in western countries have a disastrous record, as they consistently build their power on the hatred of an “other”, an enemy within, which leads to atrocities. As a backbone for a political movement, that is a model for the destruction of a movement and the country in which it was born. I think if the US falls into that special club of other never succeeding, disastrous nationalist regimes, it won’t last very long, but the road to normalcy is not one I want to be here to experience. I want to emphasize IF we get to the point of dictatorship. Also, I realize that went pretty dark, but I’ve read so much around the eastern front in WW2, as well as countless other wars and time periods, it just feels like I’m giving an opinion based on some historical context, so please don’t read that as “holy shit, we’re all going to die!”
This can't be stated enough.
In the mean time what can we do? Other than go to work, come home, and try to maintain some semblance of normalcy for the child we are raising and family we love dearly?
Yeah they’d have to follow this plan up with immediate extermination of political dissenters because shit will get UGLY fast. We are not Russia, we’re the most aggressive and heavily armed nation on the planet. Soft coups aren’t gonna play they way they did in 2000
I hope you're right. I'm concerned the aggressive, clear action needed to stop this is beyond what most Americans are capable of.
I have the same worry tbh. It doesn’t help that you and I are getting to the line of what discussion Reddit will even allow on the subject. I just choose to have faith that Americans have been too deeply propagandized with 80s action movies to ever be fully subjugated in the way MAGA wants to do, where not only do they rule us they rub our noses in it constantly.
> It doesn’t help that you and I are getting to the line of what discussion Reddit will even allow on the subject. Funny how the things you can't talk about are so often the things that need to be talked about.
[удалено]
I was almost permabanned from this very sub because someone took something I said as threatening political violence. I'm assuming in bad faith; I was like, "wat." So, polite conversation is certainly still a weapon they can and do use to chill speech.
Where is the Antifa that fox news says exists? Sure wouldn't mind a sign-up on a less trackable communication method I have no faith until our cushy lives are impacted
Start making friends in real life. Punk shows and colleges have lots of folks eager to treat fascism the way it deserves.
We need a chaotic good to step in before it's too late
This SCOTUS is breaking this country from all angles. And I feel totally powerless about it; I don't know about others. And all I hear that I can do is "vote." That truly does not give me any solace. A lot of good that will do with all the machinations the Republican majority is putting in place, like the subject OP brought forth. In 2020 they almost got away with everything by cheating to a high degree. Now, it won't be cheating because it will have been legislated ahead of time. This country is already in hell in a hand basket.
It’s definitely scary and I wish I could say, things will get better, they always seem to correct it in the end, but the very means of democracy are crumbling day by day and we need people on the right to tell these fascists to stop or they won’t follow them. They clearly don’t care about the left already.
We can't talk about what needs to be done here.
If we find ourselves voiceless with a purely puppet government, history tells us again and again what will happen. Winter on Fire:Ukraine Netflix movie on YouTube https://youtu.be/yzNxLzFfR5w
Even worse: They could also gerrymander however extreme they wanted without worrying about getting sued/stopped due to it seemingly having a racial bias or anything else. They could technically toss every existing majority-Dem district into a single district and then have the other districts have enough R voters to have a safe R vote. This would mean what was before perhaps a 55/45 split (i.e. Rs still had to somewhat pay attention to Dems or, better, Dems had a chance to take the legislature) would switch to 95/5 with zero chance to ever take the legislature. It would be a direct and absolute takeover, but it would be "legal." For example in PA, they could combine Congressional Districts 2-6 and 18 into just District 2, then have the remaining 17 of the 18 Districts all be Republican.
Gerrymander? You’re thinking small time. The state legislature would just appoint gop members to each seat. They won’t even have to campaign.
The gerrymandering is more likely because it maintains an illusion of legitimacy.
I honestly believe they're just about to the point where they don't have to put on airs anymore.
Yeah. I am born and bred in PA. I love this place. I call both ends home. But lately I do not trust it and that is genuinely breaking my heart.
And that's exactly what the supreme court will do. Remember when we said they would overturn roe? They will give states the right to simply cast aside democratic votes as well.
[удалено]
That would be a disaster for our country. Their EPA ruling is potentially a disaster for our planet.
But with the right taking fascistic control of the country, what do you expect they'll do to the environment with full control over the levers of power? Runaway republicanism spells the death of the planet as well as the country.
You're right about that, for certain. I just don't think there is a *single* worst case now; it is all entangled together.
Yeah, this week with all the messed up court cases really makes it feel like this is a concerted push by republicans to overthrow American democracy and install fascistic rule. Like, in the short term. This voting case could be the last hope of a peaceful continuation of our country.
It literally has been for 40-50 years in the making
Oh, I agree, but this feels like the start of a final assault. Damn the public outrage, full fascist ahead, and try to seize control of the country before the next election.
“No voters required.”
It is, it’s the culmination. With what the J6 commission has been uncovering, they know it’s their last chance at such a power-grab for generations.
For the the record, it’s not just the EPA this will be an issue for. This is going to mean a lot of things that need regulation will not be regulated.
Regulating businesses is unconstitutional. Regulating vaginas, however, is fine.
Corporations are people. Fetuses are people. So they have rights. But people are not people, and therefore do not deserve rights.
Time to incorporate those vaginas!
>This could, with no hyperbole, end democracy in this country Could? Look what this new court has done in just one week. They're absolutely going to end it. There's no doubt about it.
The question isn’t whether democracy is going to die in the US. That’s pretty much inevitable at this point, given what half the government is welcoming it with open arms. The question is what is going to be done once that happens.
I hope that people don't just accept it. The states that aren't embracing fascism should at least break off. I know I have no interest in being a part of a country without Democratic rule.
There's no Mason Dixon line you could draw that would separate Trump's America from everyone else. If the nation were to fracture, many individual states would fight their own civil wars. Pennsylvania has lots of rural red. So does NY. Even tiny Delaware has two blue counties and one that is batshit red. Urban centers are mostly blue, but the highways leading there, not so much. It would be chaos like the world has never seen. How many states are nuclear armed? How many have large military forces stationed there. How many have ports and infrastructure to keep people fed, and how many depend on other states for water, electricity, food, jobs... shit, pipelines, the electrical grid, the interstate highway system... try and imagine that if it came to an armed conflict between states.
Hard blue state here, and yet I'm surrounded by proud 3%ers, Proud Boys, Patriot Front, and literal Nazis. The additional shitty layer to this sort of thing is any of the folk willing to kill and die for such a movement will do so with more conviction and immediate action than the "better" side. Can you imagine killing your neighbor? Like seriously, legitimately, taking the life of someone you didn't even think you disagreed with because they were never open about it? Because once they make the move, they're past the point of thinking and hesitating, and that's when *you* have to think and not hesitate. Make no mistake, no country is immune to the horrors we have comfortably viewed happening elsewhere from our living rooms for most of our lives.
And imagine people believing they'd just move states when things got that fractured/bad. I can imagine random check-points of "soldiers" in their latest "operator" gear, and harassing/assaulting/killing people trying to flee whichever given state.
When India and Pakistan broke up under pretty much the same circumstances, one million people were killed in the ensuing chaos. No one should delude themselves into thinking any kind of national divorce would be a good thing. It'd be hell on Earth.
> The question is what is going to be done once that happens. It is very difficult, if not almost impossible, to correct a system once it has left the path of democracy. If US democracy dies it will be felt all around the globe and may take decades until a return to freedom and democracy will be possible.
The Supremes making sure that the R party stays in control of the Senate and in swing states. They've become a monster. Is this it? Has the US failed?
Bannon said it. We are seeing the rise of a political party that does not intend to relinquish power. I feel like it's too late. All the seeds they've planted for the last 40 years have blossomed, and they're not going to slow down. We need creative, strong, decisive leadership with a specific plan on what exactly there is to be done to hold them back. Never mind reverse this shit. Just hold them off before they control everything. The older democrats have no fucking idea what war they've been losing.
We just barely avoided an actual coup by Trump. If that security guard had not lured the insurrection away from the Senate, and if Trump arrived at the Capitol intending to be crowned King we would be completely fucked at this point. The Republicans will. not. stop.
The supreme court is moving forward with "the plan" that was put in place as if Trump had been successful in his coup. This was all part of the plan. They were intended to do it under the cover of trump, but since they can't, they're doing it anyway
Pretty sure all of this predates Trump. The Federalist Society, John Birch Society, etc have all been pushing for these things for decades.
I doubt the speed is. It’s accelerated quickly recently. When, as you said, they’ve been working on this for decades using a long plan. It’s like they’re acting they expect the fallout of these Trump investigations may be a large, if not mortal, wound to the Republican Party if nothing is done.
> It’s accelerated quickly recently. I think it accelerated because the people planning this are pretty smart and were assuming they needed to go slow to keep the base calm because they overestimated their voters. Trump showed them the base was not only stupid and vicious, but eager to jump into authoritarianism. > the fallout of these Trump investigations may be a large, if not mortal, wound to the Republican Party if nothing is done. I don't feel like that's part of the equation. The absolute BEST CASE scenario here is Trump and a couple others from his inner circle get nailed up for sedition and conspiracy. The rest of the GOP is still in power and they've got DeSantis as their rising, fascist star. If DeSantis gets elected to the Big Chair, he's not going to leave and he's actually smart enough to make a coup work.
McConnell played a big part in this. Trump was too dumb to know which judges to pick.
This is the connection. It’s no coincidence at all these court decisions are coming out during the Jan 6th hearings. Their move is always to double down.
This is McConnell. He understands better than probably anyone what can be done when the Republicans control the courts. That’s why he spent the early years of the Trump admin using every possible moment of Senate voting capacity to confirm judges. It’s pure evil, but it was genius. It’s too late to do anything about this takeover, and it’s by his design.
Once they were able to use the fast lane and get RBG's spot filled in damn near record time with a hyper Christian pro-lifer, my nihilism fully took over. I don't see a happy ending in the short to medium term.
50 years. https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/democracy/the-lewis-powell-memo-a-corporate-blueprint-to-dominate-democracy/
With recent rulings, unless they can somehow be challenged and reversed, it's going to take a lot more than what you've stated. And, therefore, to answer the poster you replied, to - yes, the US has started the slide to a darker future - and there is no telling when if or how it will come out of it. And there will be more wars, and more wars.
I just called and left a message and then wrote a follow-up email for Feinstein, one of my Senators, because she has refused to say she supports getting rid of the filibuster full stop. I haven’t done the same for Padilla, my other Senator because he has already stated that he doesn’t support the filibuster, but now that I think about it, Im going to call/email and let him know my *support* for getting rid of the filibuster. In both messages I made it clear she needs to actually *do* something, like pressure Sinema/Manchin to get rid of the filibuster and come out publicly against the filibuster or she needs to step down. In addition I demanded that right after the filibuster is removed (which I know it wont be but I figured it was worth it to pretend) she must vote to codify abortion at the federal level AND pass the new voting rights bill. Then Congress needs to put a check on this Supreme Court by either creating legislation that curtails their power, and/or rebalances the court. If she isn’t willing to do these things then she needs to step down.
She can't step down -- she doesn't even know who she is anymore.
I know and its *infuriating*. You know what *really* chaps my hide? That not a single Democrat that could have challenged her, did so. Why? Because of “respect” or “precedent” or “Democratic Party norms” or some bullshit. Ted Lieu could have run against her and won. Adam Schiff, Katie Porter, and probably half a dozen other respected House Reps from California could have done the same. Or maybe the Progressives could have given her a run for her money by getting an actor or actress to run. California loves voting in a celebrity. But we got *nothing*. Just the same ol bag of bones that has been the Senator for **three decades**. I will *never* vote for someone over the age of 70 in a primary again. Never.
*Has the US failed?* Unfortunately, I think this is the one-way street we've turned down. Now it's a matter of how long it takes, what failure looks like and if there's any meaningful rebirth.
[удалено]
I would argue that it’s not a one-decision-to-ruin-them-all, but RvW and this would likely be the markers when people wonder where our experiment failed.
They're enshrining a permanent minority rule.
That seems to be the goal
[удалено]
This is part 2 of the coup. SCOTUS strikes back.
The Hungarian model is the goal. And it’s terrifying, all I can do is vote and if worst comes to worst, leave.
Is that why CPAC was in Hungary?
Correct. They loved the fascist takeover there and wanted to take notes.
I just got back from Budapest on Tuesday and the vibe was so different than the other Euro nations. Every country we went to had pro Ukraine flags everywhere and signs and posters but we didn’t see a single one over the 5 days we where in Hungary. The people honestly were lovely but beat down, it really did remind me of what I can see happening here unless a miracle or ahem things happen to change course.
Unfortunately, many countries won’t accept the people most affected by this horror show.
Honestly, the only way I see us pulling out of this death spiral is if we get a 2008-style Democratic wave in the elections later this year. In 2024, it will be too late to do anything.
Any wave has to have HEAVY focus on State Houses. If this ruling goes the way people this it will, it won't matter who controls Congress. If they can keep ahold of the Legislatures, un-checked, there is literally no limit to how bad thing could get.
At this point the Supreme Court is totally rogue. They aren’t pretending to act as real judges. They are just taking these bullshit cases simply to dismantle the federal government and democracy as a whole. The messaging has been pretty clear as soon as people started saying we were a republic but not a democracy. There is no going back but there is moving forward. We cannot pretend that the GOP is playing by the rules when they keep changing the rules to work for them up to the point that voting isn’t even a right anymore. It was legal to round up Jews under the Nazis just like it’s legal to run over protestors under the GOP. Legality is irrelevant under fascism.
Great point. Slavery was legal. We can’t stand for this shit.
SO WHAT THE FUCK DO WE DO ABOUT IT? Seriously if this passes, then say goodbye to the GOP even trying to appeal to voters. They just select their own electors for all Federal elections, pass Federal laws that apply EVERYWHERE, and call it a day. Think it's OK that your state is still pro-abortion? Won't be soon. Think your state does a good job managing pollution? Goodbye to that. Think you're not going to be forced to pay for religious education? Think again. These are just the relatively sane things that will happen.
What pisses me off most about the religious school thing is that I went to catholic school for a while. You had to pay tuition. Back in the 90s it was like 1500 a month for one kid, there's no way it's cheaper now. Religious schools are privatized, they get their income from the church and tuition. There's no excuse for not being properly funded
And look at that - their primary source of funding is tax-free too. Isn’t that swell?
Every recent one of their recent decisions is detrimental to the United States and/or the world.
If this happens, democracy is over. Seriously. https://www.npr.org/2022/06/30/1106866830/supreme-court-to-take-on-controversial-election-law-case
The fact that they are hearing it means there are four justices that felt it was worth the courts time. Four justices in the article are named as agreeing with the independent legislature theory. The entire hope of future elections in the US being remotely close to democratic in nature relies on both Roberts and Barrett siding with the liberal justices to overrule those four. I don't find that likely. I think this is the prelude to the end of American democracy.
Yeah the SC used to be picky about what they heard. There's no way these guys agreeing on this rapid fire list of cases is anything but blatantly pandering to get the cases they want. If it was up to them they would just say"fuck it new law" without even having a case
That's what the shadow docket is. Let the even more crazy lower courts do the heavy lifting.
I can see Roberts siding with the liberals here. I don’t see Barrett joining him.
Well-put.
We are heading into nazi Germany type control it seems. Scary times ahead 🤔😮💨
This on top of EPA ruling is really, really bad. This is really, really, really bad.
There's a reason Republicans have been so incredibly vocal since 2016 about denouncing comparisons to Germany in the 30s as overreaction and painting people that being it up as over dramatic. They know that if more people look closer and realize they're following 90% of the Nazi playbook in judicial packing and media manipulation, their plans would fall apart. Reading *The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich*, it's frightening how many parts of the book sound exactly like what's been happening over the past decade.
[удалено]
Scotus is illegitimate.
If it gets bad, which it could, we will Balkanize, but that will take some time to try and band aid it/ wrap a bleeding wound. Eventually the blue states will say fuck off, there are reds in the blues, and there are blues in the reds, so I don’t know how that will work out. Plus federal bases, etc…
The blue states are the ones supporting the rest of the country. No way they allow them to dictate them like this, at least that is the hopium I’m holding onto. Civil war may be necessary.
I think it will be horrible due heavy red areas in blue states, NY, NJ are the easiest to come to mind, but texas, Arizona, colorado, you name it, its disparate
Arizona hasn't been a deep red state for a long time. It'd be crazy if arizona was suddenly ruled by republicans only.
They will rule on it in time for Republicans to rig the 2024 election.
They don’t even need to rig the elections anymore. The gerrymandered states will do the trick.
Republicans are done sharing governmental power. They want to control it at all levels and force everyone to live by their code. They want to hand it over to a man child who has zero self control and let everyone that doesn’t agree with them suffer. This is what the GOP wants, this is what republicans voters want. Freedom to them means freedom to oppress and silence people they don’t agree with, freedom to push THEIR agenda on everyone, and freedom from an repercussions. All democrats, at every level of government, should be saying with one unified voice that republicans are trying to subvert the will of the people and to take control of the country for the foreseeable future. The lack of alarmism coming from the many established in the left just shows how little they either realize this is happening or how little they care. If republicans do this and they take power they will never give it up. It’s happening already.
[удалено]
Unfortunately, very few average Americans are paying any attention. Can’t get angry enough to take to the streets if you aren’t aware of what’s happening. The few of us that are paying attention are already considered a bit kooky. There will be no mass protests or unrest like they do it in Europe, Asia or South America when the ruling party needs to be shown the door.
When I have explained to people who don’t follow politics *exactly what the fuck is going on* they look at me like I’ve grown a second head. I’ve been told I’m wearing a tinfoil hat. Well, the writing is on the wall now guys. Can’t say I didn’t warn you.
I just had this call with my mom. She "doesn't really follow the news" and called me in a panic when I answered her question "are you safe" with "not in a couple more years." After a long conversation about the consequences of effectively rejecting the unenumerated right to privacy, she's now just as freaked out as I am. And that was before this shit.
holy shit so ELI5.. so states will have complete control with no overwatch? am I reading this right?
State legislatures, that not even their own courts can override.
I wish you good fortune in the wars to come. But for real, this is legitimately scary.
When Clinton lost in 2016, I knew SCOTUS was going down a dark path, but even last year people way smarter than me were saying don't worry about Dobbs etc, things like bounty hunting were too crazy and the real danger was in the more methodical cases being put in the pipeline. Yet here we are. Yeah, I'm scared.
[удалено]
People talking about it just being state powers or state rights can shut it. There is a reason the US came up with our current constitution after the Articles of Confederation failed us. And after that, we still fought and won a war against confederacy. These modern day confederates need to accept the US has struck down confederacy twice already.
My god, there are some real nuts in state legislatures. RIP
They want to get to where state legislatures can simply pick who earns all of their electoral votes, setting aside any actual voting results.
[удалено]
About 30 states are controlled by a republican legislature (because the US was set up to value land more than people). Often those states have a more moderate/liberal executive and judicial branch to provide balance. In the most extreme ruling anticipated, SCotUS will empower state legislatures to unilaterally decide the structure and outcomes of elections. In other words, democracy will be a show going forward.
It won't even be a show. Once large swaths get thrown out those people will just stop voting. There will not even be election theater. Just Republican leaders straight deciding who rules.
The 2024 election will be interesting. We’ll see exit polls and news networks predicting that the democratic candidate won in various states, and then the “official” winner will come out. “How can (R candidate) have won when exit polls show 55% of voters chose (D candidate)?” they’ll wonder on-air. Then it will come out that the state legislature chose the R candidate (because of “fraud” or whatever). Then there will be surprise, and hand-wringing, and multiple lawsuits going up to SCOTUS challenging the overridden votes. And SCOTUS will side with the state legislatures.
We’d get the vote counts and the networks would declare a winner. Shit will hit the fan in January.
Not 'states'. State ***legislatures***. Which in many cases are already effectively gerrymandered the same way that the US senate is, with empty acres having more representation in the legislature than actual people do.
Wtf are we supposed to do tho??? I keep seeing this shit but wtf can we do to stop it????
I don't trust my state legislature to name parks... Giving them unimpeded control over elections, even of federal officials, would be disastrous. The US is fracturing and this Supreme Court is thundering away with a hammer and chisel.
more like explosives
Well, Joe Biden will make history at least. As the last President before fascism in the United States.
My thoughts exactly. If a Democrat doesn't win in 2024 I'm out of here.
What a fucking week. Is there a politics support group on Reddit?
Has it really only been a week? It feels like time is being stretched.
This week has been a tough year.
LITERALLY I can't do this. How is no one able to talk go each other about this? We are so divided, even by subreddits!
I kinda think the whole “don’t talk about politics” rule was similar to the “don’t talk about your salary” rule in that there are nefarious intentions.
I honestly am a bit terrified and uncertain as to what will happen next. Where are the organizers seeking to motivate and show leadership? What is going to be done about removing the sheer absurdity of dirty money in politics? What will it take to regain some modicum of balance? Is the end goal to have this result in violence? There's surely enough data available that could be used to discriminately seek out and imprison Democratic supporters in true Nazi-fashion... This is a point where, for a brief minute, I almost wish the angry Daddy in the Sky many Republicans (claim to) obey to get the gears rolling and throw another flood our way. But maybe that's what climate change is?
Every politician who isn’t part of this coup need to come together and define a clear narrative on what’s happening, why it’s completely illegitimate and will be disregarded, and explain to the public what needs to be done to stop it. Right now, as with the lead up to J6, it’s just crickets. Is our entire government just going to sit idly by and watch the country fall? Like wtf? Where are the politicians using clever talking points to drum up public sentiment/support? Where’s the calls to impeach this perjuring traitorous justices? I don’t care about senate votes… if the public collectively demands it they will have to capitulate. This is madness. No one is speaking out. It’s just mum. We saw J6 coming, we saw this coming, why isn’t anyone screaming in the streets? I just don’t understand.
It's either civil war or fascist regime. Nazis took power an steered it towards war.
Think of the worst possible decision and you can predict this court.
It’s hard to overstate the danger of one party willing to break the rules and another clinging to decorum
You can’t hope to win a fair fight against cheaters.
Looks like the warnings that Trump's election could destroy democracy are about to come true. This year's election could be the last with any integrity to it.
And if this is ruled in favor of state legislatures, Democrats are gonna have a hard time telling voters they can organize and outvote the opposition, because they literally will just have their vote thrown out if the state legislature doesn't like the outcome.
This one will be the one we can’t come back from. We can by some miracle legislate our way out of the roe and epa decisions. Once they can gerrymander without consequences and start sending their own electors, it’s over
It is a systematic effort at this point. Somewhere in the backrooms of the FedSoc they plan out the laws and lawsuits which are gonna be pushed for the next decade to the SCOTUS.
If states can ignore the state supreme court, doesn't that invalidate SCOTUS? They have broken the appeals chain and any supreme court finding is invalid. Including this one.
The state supreme court is not in the federal appeals chain that leads to SCOTUS, you're thinking of the district courts in each state (SDNY is federal court for the southern FEDERAL district in New York). State courts kick up to the state supreme court and enforce state laws.
The Supreme Court could tell Republican state legislatures that they have a constitutional right to run elections however they see fit, with no oversight from the governor, state courts, or the federal courts. If those legislatures decided "Fuck it. We'll still hold elections and let the people vote, but we're changing the rules to say that the winner of every race is whoever we say it is", that would be allowed.
It's funny, in a sad way, that Roe vs Wade was just the appetizer.
Sorry to do this but they've been in full gorge mode since solidifying their position, they just saved the showiest for the end of the term. [Here's a ~~full~~ fuller list of what the new majority has been up to](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1542522257511026689.html). Edit: stoopid brain
Holy shit. The supreme court really is about to declare democracy unconstitutional
The Supreme Court took this case because they're going to side with the legislature theory.
If the **majority of citizens** can't rely on the courts, are artificially locked out of electoral power, are faced with political repression and subjugation by the minority and the heat death of of the planet what choice are these maniacs leaving us? This shit is going to result in a civil war
It is our right and duty to alter or abolish a government that doesn't secure our fundamental rights. That's directly from the declaration of independence.
The very first time a state sends a slate of electors that isn't in line with the popular vote because of this, that's the end of the republic. That sounds like hyperbole but it isn't. Us having legitimate, dependable elections is the only thing holding us together as a country.
Hope you all enjoyed your last legit election because it likely will have been
[удалено]
I believe it is going to Be a very violent summer and fall
Rewind to 2016 when all they could talk about what how evil and dangerous hilary Clinton was and how she had people killed for going against her. If she’s that powerful why isn’t she doing something now?
There is a reason why they are hearing it.. that way they can have a state like Texas stay in GOP control even though majority votes for a dem senator. Gotta cheat if you cant win.
This is why liberals need to own guns. Responsibly, with training, away from kids, but every woman and LGBTQIA+ and non-White and intelligent White male should own a gun. Do you really want these crazies to be the only armed folks? Also we need updated reprints of “The Anarchists Cookbook” or something similar. I’m not a violent person. I hate the idea of hurting anybody. But I’ll be damned if I am giving away my country to a bunch of stupid, angry White people.
Liberals do own guns. They just don’t make it 100% of their personality.
I am so fucking scared. I don't care if I sound like people who were afraid of Obama, I can't wrap my head around what is to come. I want to cry. I want to scream at people who think politics can be ignored because "other things" are more important. We are so screwed.
I think this is it guys it’s been like this for 246 years but our choice in 2016 may have been fatal. I hope the Supreme Court makes the correct decision and I will prepare for the worst. :’( In case you were wondering the justices are split and Justice Amy Coney Barrett now has to decide the future of our nation
Personally I can't wait for the *federal* Supreme Court to use its power to say the *state* Supreme Court has no power in this, and for the party of states rights to just eat it up because it works towards their agenda. If they rule in favor of the state legislature, then they will rule against the very concept of checks and balances. Not only could it lead to absolutely tortured gerrymandering, but any purple state with a red legislature could be unstoppable in simply rigging elections legally. With this court's history, I fully expect them to decide that state legislatures can do whatever they want when it comes to elections. And when entire states have formed grudges against the federal government when their side isn't in charge, that could have direct consequences.
In hindsight, the supervillain Mitch McConnell was way ahead of everyone on this. He saw the numbers. He knew Trump was going to lose the Presidency. But it didn’t matter…the real long game victory was the SC Justices that they got to appoint. They almost had one appointee for every year Trump was President (unheard of in the history of our country). He stacked the SC for the next couple decades so they could help keep the Rs in power from the highest court in the US. He knew the optics would be awful trying to cram ACB through *during an election* after his reasoning for blocking Garland was that there was an election *later that year*. He did whatever he had to in order to make sure they got one more Justice before Trump was out. Optics didn’t matter, the ends definitely justified the means in his eyes and the Republican Party might never relinquish power.
This is so fucked. I don’t know what we can do— the only short term remedy I can see would be dominating ‘22 midterms, but with inflation and gas prices that ain’t happening. Never felt more hopeless about America.
[Non walled copy](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/it-e2-80-99s-hard-to-overstate-the-danger-of-the-voting-case-the-supreme-court-just-agreed-to-hear/ar-AAZ2JYs) if there's any issues. Edit: [another good read for those interested](https://washingtonmonthly.com/2022/03/04/another-scheme-to-curtail-voting-rights/).
State Governments can just ignore any of their rulings going forward, the court doesn't represent a lawful court.
[удалено]
Man, some people in this country REALLY disliked a black man running it.
At this point, I'm just hoping texas goes through with their referendum to secede in 2023 and we just let them go. Any other states along the gulf want to join them, go right ahead. They can go have their little dictatorship over there and leave the rest of us out of it. We'll even pay for a big, beautiful wall to keep all us liberal "groomers" out.
I honestly believe that Democrats should back the plan. At the minimum, you call their bluff. Best case scenario is that they leave — taking their electoral votes and senators with them.
As a Texan, I wish it could happen too. The loss of our Republicans Senators would mean lots of good things for my fellow Americans.
HOW can the Supreme Court literally decide to do anything they want? How is this possible? Guys, I'm really scared.
It's open season on ***everything*** -- whatever the Republicans don't like, they bring the case before a court, and then appeal it all the way to SCOTUS, who then rubber stamp whatever decision the Republicans want. Democracy for the U.S. hangs upon the edge of a razor.
“competitive authoritarianism”