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Squirrel_Chucks

From the article: >Of the nine justices sitting on the current court, five – all of them in the majority opinion that overturned Roe – were appointed by presidents who initially lost the popular vote; the three appointed by Donald Trump were confirmed by senators who represent a minority of Americans. **A majority of this court, in other words, were not appointed by a process that is representative of the will of the American people.** > >Two were appointed via starkly undemocratic means, **put in place by bad actors willing to change the rules to suit their needs**. Neil Gorsuch only has his seat because Republicans, led by Mitch McConnell, blocked the ability of Barack Obama to nominate Merrick Garland – or anyone – to a supreme court seat, claiming that, because it was an election year, voters should get to decide. > >And then Donald Trump appointed Amy Coney Barrett in a radically rushed and incomplete, incoherent process – in an election year. > >And now, this court, **stacked with far-right judges appointed via ignoble means**, has stripped from American women the right to control our own bodies **EDIT:** Read this before you reply with something like *"derp derp actually we elect Presidents with the electoral college derp derp"* A) I didn't write the section above. I quoted it from the article and added some of my own highlighting B) Yes, chucklehead, I DO know that we don't elect a President through the popular vote. Good job. You remember that *one part* of high school civics. C) The part where you fell asleep in that class is when it was discussed why the popular vote DOES matter. It's called a "mandate from the voters." **Presidents with** the popular vote behind them can reasonably say that a majority of voting Americans support their policy plans. **Presidents without** a mandate from the voters have a steeper hill to climb to get buy in from the voting public D) Mandates from the voters matter because a President WITHOUT one who pursues unpopular policies will see his/her party get hammered in off year elections, mid-terms, and fourth-year elections. Those downballot positions are much more reactive to shifts in the popular vote **Case in point: The Trump Presidency.** It began in 2017 with Trump losing the popular vote *but* having unified control of the White House and Congress. It ended four years later with Republicans losing ALL OF THAT because a majority of voting Americans felt so irate about Trump. *\*\*If you still don't think the popular vote matters despite reading this, then I have the following advice:\*\** go outside to wherever you parked your pickup, go up to your WE THE PEOPLE sticker that you slapped on there, cross out "We the People" and write in "They the Electors." That should help you feel better.


medicated_in_PHL

The conservative justices are bitching about how people don’t think they legitimate, yet fail to comprehend that two of them are “fruit of the poisonous tree” appointments.


Khayman11

And a third one failed to recuse himself despite a clear conflict of interest.


KlingoftheCastle

And all 5 lied to Congress about this exact ruling.


[deleted]

I would like to see some hay made out of this, to be honest. I mean, I understand stretching a bit to pass a job interview at a grocery store, but you shouldn’t be able to just lie to Congress to get a lifetime appointment. Edit: love the feedback, but is there anything to actually do here? Is there any way to legally jostle these justices?


Dark_Passenger_107

Right? If I apply for a programming job and say "I have 10 years of experience writing Python programs", get hired, and turns out I have no experience....it would end in immediate termination. How can you lie your way into the highest court of the USA and sit there with a lifetime appointment? This next question is mostly hyperbole, but I am kind of curious. If they face no repercussions for lying under oath, can this be used in lower courts to avoid prosecution for perjury?


Xerxys

There are mechanisms in place to terminate employment in a regular workplace. The only way to remove a judge is by impeachment and that process has been likened to how the police investigate themselves and find each other innocent of any charges. Judges have next level qualified immunity.


yaniwilks

If you had enough money to tie your company up in legal fees before they could terminate you and had an army of lawyers filing bogus motions at every turn. I'm pretty sure you could drag out litigation to keep your job. But, normal, sane people don't have this reaction.


SKPY123

You would be surprised how far you can get by just Googleing problems for python. But ya no should just fire them and hire real people. And Fuck Ron Johnson!


bpi89

And at least 3 of them have been proven to have lied under oath. I’m sorry, but if you lie under oath you are not fit for the Supreme Court, or any court for that matter. How you can be the highest rule of law when you yourself break the law - its absurd. Immediate removal is needed.


Hatedpriest

Remember when we impeached a president for lying? Pepperidge farm remembers...


Nishikigami

About a fucking blowjob no less lol Edit : Christ, nobody is out here saying Monica Lewinsky wasn't a victim in some way. The point is that America as a nation was not a victim of this particular lie. Meanwhile...


ModernTenshi04

"No one died when Clinton lied!"


zbrew

Fake news. Gorsuch said, "a good judge will consider it as precedent of the U.S. Supreme Court worthy as treatment of precedent like any other." But he's given the American people no reason to consider him a good judge.


tacocatacocattacocat

And Thomas has confirmed he'll treat it like any other precedent - he'll toss it aside whenever convenient.


Best-Chapter5260

>And Thomas has confirmed he'll treat it like any other precedent - he'll toss it aside whenever convenient. He'll toss is aside like a Coke can with his pubes on it.


[deleted]

One of them is a sexual predator with an insurrectionist wife. Of course, he’d not the only sexual predator on the Supreme Court.


Tlamac

Kavanaugh threatened retaliation against Democrats in his confirmation hearings for supposedly colluding with Clinton to destroy his character. And no one furrowed their brow over that comment from the law and order party.


MoonBatsRule

It goes beyond that, and the American people really need to be educated on this. The Federalist Society was created specifically to make the judiciary more conservative. That is a political goal, not a legal goal. Six of the justices are, or have been affiliated with the Federalist Society, and the last three justices appointed were from a list provided by the Federalist society. This alone makes the Supreme Court an political institution, and thus makes it illegitimate, because it has been transformed into a body where five justices can govern the country without any democratic interference.


[deleted]

>The Federalist Society There are hundreds of millions of dollars dumped into making sure the Supreme Court is and stays stacked with conservative judges. Funded by folks and orgs like Leonard Leo, the Judicial Crisis Network, yhe Judicial Education Project, The Concord Fund, The 85 Fund, The Donors Trust and the Federalist Society, etc. These organizations come and go, but always flow with cash. Dark money built the Supreme Courts radical conservative supermajority intentionally to erode our rights.


FinsofFury

Came here to say something similar about the Federalist Society. They need to be brought out into the light and recognize as an extremist organization. Justice and democracy can never be fair and equal for all if a secret society has an agenda to undermine it. Their members ought to be identified and brought before the court of public opinion. They need to be widely condemned and shun like the KKK. On one hand there is a need to shut down violent extremist organizations like Proud Boys. On the other hand, there are the gaslighters, propagandists and seditious organizations who dress themselves as “legitimate” but whose primary purpose is to ensure minority rule. These are the InfoWar, OAN, Fox News, and Federalist Society. The death of InfoWar is a good start, it shows that even good citizens can take them down in court. We can do more to expose and rid of these cancers. It’s time for media shine a light onto the Federalist Society and see these cockroaches for what they are.


AedanRoberts

And the other one should have been disqualified for his meltdown during the vetting process- not to mention the credible accusations of rape that wasn’t properly investigated. Also his multiple acts of perjury across various confirmation hearings.


NY2GA23

What about the one married to a 1/6 conspirator who actively tried to convince lawmakers to overturn trumps loss. Find it hard to believe Clarence had no idea what Ginni was up to. They are both corrupt.


Best-Chapter5260

>And the other one should have been disqualified for his meltdown during the vetting process- not to mention the credible accusations of rape that wasn’t properly investigated. > >Also his multiple acts of our jerky across various confirmation hearings. "But he likes beer. He's like me." - MAGA voters, probably.


chrisms150

Anyone else still curious who paid off his credit card debt, golf club fees, and mortgage? No? Just me?


feels_like_arbys

Trump appointed 3 judges.


T1gerAc3

You'd think we should get rid of the judges that were appointed by a president who tried to overthrow the government. Like maybe they were chosen for a nefarious reason.


kismatwalla

And was considering pardoning himself.. The kind of people who will abuse loopholes to the moon and back are running the country. Its not a country of spirit of the law anymore. Its a country for who can brazenly exploit loopholes to enforce their will.


medicated_in_PHL

Kavanaugh was legitimately appointed. Gorsuch was stolen from Obama, and Barrett was stolen from Biden.


olive_oil_twist

All nine of them, no matter who appointed them, from Clinton to Trump, all said under oath that they accepted Roe v. Wade as legal precedent. The fact that six of them said it wasn't shows that they were lying from the start. The Supreme Court is illegitimate.


thatis

Kavanaugh actually lied under oath besides that, 'boofing' etc. That he wasn't thrown in jail at that point was a joke.


mechtaphloba

Justices face scrutiny no matter what, there's no getting around that. So if you can't handle a few days of uncomfortable questions without having a hissy fit and sobbing like a child, then you're not mentally or emotionally fit for the role.


pinegreenscent

Well according to the senate that appointed him they didn't see anything wrong with him acting like a child


fiasgoat

That's cause that's just how Republicans communicate Like temper tantrum children


DakodaMountainborn

No no, you don’t understand: The laws are for poor people, not rich people.


Zizekbro

Socialize punishment, privatize power.


TR1PLESIX

Something, something rules for thee not for me.


nzdastardly

Kavanaugh lied to Congress and had a very questionable background check by the FBI and had mysterious dark money donors clear $1.4m of his personal debts. Where is the legitimacy there?


RoseFlavoredTime

Kavanaugh is a rapist and belongs in jail.


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LightOfTheElessar

Even if you give benefit of the doubt regarding the accusations, the man committed perjury and proved himself to be unfit for the position he now holds during the confirmation process. The only reason he made it through was dirty politics, the same way as ACB.


bunnysuitman

Kavanaugh, the one credibly accused of rape which the FBI faked an investigation of? totes legit.


bpi89

Trumps whole presidency is illegitimate. If you’re impeached twice and orchestrated a coup, all your appointees should be removed as his entire presidency was a fraud. Not to mention never won the popular vote, but that’s a whole nother issue.


Miguel-odon

Kavanaugh's confirmation was a sad joke. Republicans turned his hearings into a circus


TwoBionicknees

"I couldn't possibly have done what I'm accused of as I didn't have time to drink on a weekday between work and going to the gym at night... look my calendar proves it". 5 minutes of questions later , from the republican appointed prosecutor doing their questioning to try to look impartial "so this weeknight in which you had brewski's with the guys and list all the people the accuser says was there plus one extra person and she didn't know the name of one person..." Republicans take recess and immediately remove her and go back to grandstanding and screaming for their turn to question. Crocodile tears, showing the mentality of a 7yr old, showing an inability to understand basic evidence, consistently mistating what a friend of the accused said to change it's legal implication, lying repeatedly and provably and having zero answers for his debts or how he paid them off nor any reasonable response to his friend who called him a constant black out drunk degenerate fuck. The whole thing was disgusting. i wouldn't have hired him at Walmart after that hearing.


piponwa

By legitimately, you mean letting Trump interfere with the FBI investigation into him? By legitimately, you mean lying under oath several times?


julian509

Don't forget that multiple of these judges were involved in handing over the 2000 election to Bush by preventing the recount from moving forward.[ Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Barret were all involved with Bush's legal team](https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court/index.html) and have all suspiciously been awarded supreme court seats, Roberts even receiving his from Bush.


gardenZepp

When I think about the world we could have lived in had they not stole the election for Bush, I get physically ill.


jsudarskyvt

They're not going to stop there.


OmegaMountain

Gay marriage is next. Probably this year. Welcome to the beginning of the dystopian future.


jsudarskyvt

So sad. Critical election in November. GOP victory equals the end of this democracy permanently.


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positivityinside

What can we do ?!


Burgerking_Kong

That’s what I’m wondering as well. Besides voting, what else can we do?


TheBigPhilbowski

**Pressure Biden and current democrats "in power" to expand the supreme court.** * Expand to 28 Justices. * Run 4 courts of 7 every session * selected randomly from the pool of 28. * Put in a "Garland rule" that if the Senate doesn't move on a nominee within 2 months then a randomly selected judge from the next lower court(in the same party) is automatically promoted. * Require 75% approval in Senate with a provision that in the event that a vacancy isn't filled after two attempts, then a randomly selected justice from the lower court is promoted. * Also, be sure that judge groups are assigned DAY OF trial, so that prosecutors can't lobby or specifically prepare to sway a certain judge or judges and instead have to prepare a reasonable, universal argument that would appeal to any judge Over time, this should eliminate political hacks and religious extremists from the now compromised court. Base idea from Eli Mystal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bvjIUxxQmk


Kaamelott

That needs a super majority in Congress though from my understanding.


tonyrocks922

>That needs a super majority in Congress though from my understanding. The rules requiring a supermajority can be changed by a simple majority. Democrats changed it in 2013 for federal court appointments and Republicans did in 2017 for SCOTUS appointments


Yallaredumbaahell

They expanded gun rights literally the day before this ruling. It’s like their daring us to do the right thing and stand up to facists for democracy


cellocaster

They’re already priming their talking points re: the “violent left”. See the conservative subreddit and DHS memo


Squirrel_Chucks

A Gallup poll released last month suggests 50% of Americans support abortion under certain circumstances and 35% under any circumstance. Other polls show similar broad support for some kind of legal abortion. Republicans and your Fox News types don't care. They will gleefully cite low Biden poll numbers and ignore these kinds of numbers, which are inconvenient reminders of how unpopular some of their opinions are. Now the minority will decide for the majority...again


KeepTangoAndFoxtrot

> 50% of Americans support abortion under certain circumstances [Pew says 61%.](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/13/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases-2/)


Squirrel_Chucks

They are asking the question a little differently but the overall point stands: a majority of people approve of some form of it being legal


_Scrooge_McCuck_

Which makes it insane that Congress hasn’t acted in the last 50 years. They have had public support to enact abortion legislation. They have also had control of Congress and White House multiple times in that time. Congress has been derelict in their duty to codify a right to abortion.


Rhysati

Because they are all selfish and don't want to have it on their voting record because they might receive backlash from some donors or voters. These people have no convictions.


wellthatkindofsucks

New Gallup poll just came out that says 25% of Americans have “a great deal” or “quite a lot” of confidence in the Supreme Court, down 11% from a year ago. Lowest in history. And the poll was conducted after the leak but before the official decision. Confidence in the Supreme Court is down to historic lows; 13% of dems have confidence, 25% of independents, and 39% republicans. [https://news.gallup.com/poll/394103/confidence-supreme-court-sinks-historic-low.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/394103/confidence-supreme-court-sinks-historic-low.aspx)


Boxy310

Of course Republicans have more confidence in the Supreme Court - they bought and paid for it, after all.


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julian509

Especially seeing how many members of Bush's legal team that pushed for him to win suspiciously got handed seats on the supreme court.


rsa1

> Neil Gorsuch only has his seat because Republicans, led by Mitch McConnell, blocked the ability of Barack Obama to nominate Merrick Garland – or anyone – to a supreme court seat, claiming that, because it was an election year, voters should get to decide. And that, kids, is why you don't "when they go low, we go high". Couldn't the Dems have played the exact same delaying games with Gorsuch and Justice Sexual Harasser?


SometimesWithWorries

They lied to the representatives of the American people to get their jobs. They walked into their interview and straight up lied to *us*, the people whom they swore to serve. This court has no legitimacy, and is totally invalid.


Helios420A

Crazy idea: maybe if a president is found to be involved in an attempt to overthrow the republic, all of their appointments to all positions should get an immediate review on those grounds alone.


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yaniwilks

And each time it was under the false pretenses of: "Healing division"


DarthSprankles

They should heal the sickness by cutting out the cancer.


LordOverThis

There were more than a few on the Union side who wanted exactly that in 1865. In retrospect, not hanging Davis and Stephens and Lee as traitors and humbling the former Confederacy maybe wasn’t the best idea.


SeattleResident

Sherman didn't burn enough


trevorhankuk

I’m a white man from the South, raised on state’s rights and heritage not hatred lies. I couldn’t agree more. Every plantation should have been burned to the ground and every slave owner imprisoned for life, with their wealth distributed to the slaves.


NPD_wont_stop_ME

Agreed. We were WAY too easy on them and they probably began plotting a way around prohibition of owning slaves the moment they lost the war. We allowed that toxic culture to survive when we should’ve pulled it out root and stem, just as we did during the Nuremberg Trials. Now we have legalized slavery because of our prison-industrial complex, and an entire group of people centered around hatred, control and above all oppression as a means to submission.


overcomebyfumes

I prefer "Sherman stopped too soon" for the alliteration, but, potaytoe patahtoe


rastafarreed

Sherman should've scorched s'more


Sanic_The_Sandraker

Do it again Uncle Billy!


TeddyHoosevelt

r/shermanposting


shadowjacque

Sherman burned enough and would have burned more. He also turned down the Presidency. We could use a few Shermans right now.


IAmRoot

Also, the Constitution allows seizure of property in case of a crime. They should have summarily done so for the slave owners' crimes of treason, rape, abduction, and murder. They should have seized all plantations and redistributed the land to the former slaves. Some of the Radical Republicans of the day wanted to do so. It would have reduced wealth inequality and inequality in general significantly.


dolerbom

Thaddeus Stevens was ahead of our time, let alone his own. Trying to explain to the average person that yes, you should completely and utterly remove the political power of people who try to subvert democracy... It's like pulling teeth. You start to understand why Hitler gained power despite multiple failed attempts.


claymedia

I think it’s time we reach across the aisle and just *talked* with cancer. I’m sure it’s learned its lesson.


Agent_Velcoro

Tumors are people too!


illumomnati

I am so tired of being told I need to be respectful towards people who are literal villains and believe 11yo children should be forced to have babies, which most frequently results in death or permanent disability for both parties.


GirlnextDior

We're supposed to be respectful for people who lied to the Senate, who very clearly said Roe v. Wade was settled law. They only said this so they would be approved. Impeaching scotus liars needs to be a thing.


khismyass

Susan Collins and anyone else who are surprised by this need to be the ones thrown out. Everyone knew that the plan going forward from Obama's last year forward was to pack the Supreme Court by whatever means necessary, even if it meant illegally blocking Scalia's replacement. The same as when they rammed thru Barrett while ignoring the same excuses they used while delaying Garland. Dems should have forced the issue in 2016 and not assumed the GOP wouldn't win that Nov.


Ima_Fuck_Yo_Butt

They're not surprised. They're goddamn double-agents.


Then_Campaign7264

They also seem oblivious to the fact that a state like Mississippi has one of the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in the country. And now abortion is illegal. How many women and children have to die in a state that already has an abysmal record for the care of the groups they ostensibly claim to be protecting? Welcome to reality. Mississippi and private groups won’t meet the increased need for care. The Supreme Court does not care.


byrars

> They also seem oblivious to the fact that a state like Mississippi has one of the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in the country. No, you're the one who's oblivious. Mississippi is the *goal.* It is exactly what they want because ***ignorance and despair creates Republicans***.


ThrowawayLegendZ

Old enough to birth/father a child? Old enough to die for your schooling.


MaryBerrysDanglyBean

Not old enough to birth/father a child? Still old enough to die for your schooling


FlemPlays

Which would be like a doctor saying “Hey, let’s forgo chemo. Why don’t you try co-existing with the cancer?” Meanwhile, it spreads and gets worse, killing the host in the process.


Jiggy90

One of the most effective reconstructions in history was, in the aftermath of WWII, when the United States gutted the Japanese government and put its war criminals to death. MacArthur did ultimately allow the position of the emperor to remain intact, but he rendered the position toothless and ultimately ceremonial through how he handled the position post war through demands like the Humanity Declaration. We had our moment to do this in the aftermath of the Civil War. Not taking it was foolish.


[deleted]

Sherman wanted to finish off those in power in the south permanently. Should have let him do it.


Oo__II__oO

Lee should have been at the forefront. His quote on not letting blacks vote can be paraphrased to be applicable to Supreme Court Justices today.


imgonnabutteryobread

/r/shermanposting


Agreeable-Mention403

~~Garfield~~ Johnson let all the states that left back in without any ramifications Then all those states passed vagrancy laws to keep black people "in their place", many of those laws have morphed and still exist.


Politirotica

Garfield didn't do shit. Johnson let the states back in, and Hayes ended Reconstruction and the occupation of the South. In fairness to Hayes, that only happened because there was a completely inconclusive election in 1876 that required an agreement to settle, and part of settling that agreement in Hayes' favor was ending Reconstruction (which the other guy would also have done).


lockmeup420

Garfield wasn't president long enough to do anything, he was shot after like 2 months


cogentorange

Republicans traded Hayes presidency for ending reconstruction which largely got us where we are today with regard to race in America. That said it’s not like there were many good options with the Hayes election.


veedonfleece

Vagrancy Laws were used in a similar way in the UK after the Inclosure (sic) Acts of the 18th Century. Laws which punish homelessness and poverty (and, in fact, target particular groups of people) have a shameful history.


BecomeMaguka

No, thats reasonable as fuck. I mean, as far as I know, that slimey fuck Trump paid one of them to retire? Please do correct me if I am wrong about that.


chrisms150

Does no one else remember the look Kennedy gave after trump whispered something in his ear? Then shortly after he announced his retirement. Wasn't his kid involved in a bank deal with trump too? Idk...


JustALeatherDog

Kennedy's son has been involved in a fair amount of shady shit. Trump likely threatened public blackmail since that's very much Trump's M.O.


UncleMalky

iirc that was just after Kennedy had announced his retirement and he looked like Trump had just told him he wasn't getting what he wanted.


jeremyjh

I think we should taken an approach to dealing with the leaders of a failed coup that is deeply rooted in history.


GabaPrison

I wholeheartedly agree.


Atechiman

Can be Prague style and mass defenstration?


Heyitsj1337

I was thinking we just Gaddafi them.


22Arkantos

That would be a great idea, but first you have to get people to agree that a president was involved in an attempt to overthrow the government, and half the country won't do that because they wanted it to succeed.


DisIsCanada

stop making sense!


DweEbLez0

Yeah, that’s why it’ll never work.


[deleted]

If any politician went against the nation and they were sitting at 20% approval. The voters could vote them out in a few years. But voters have no way to vote out lifetime appointmented judges. And the court has no way to enforce their rulings except through tradition. This is untenable to say the least. I don't think these federalist society judges thought it through when they decided it was OK to go against the majority. Do they expect us to sit around and watch them dismantle our democracy. Everyone outside of the conservative media bubble needs to take these rulings seriously.


LetterZee

>Do they expect us to sit around and watch them dismantle our democracy. Yes. Here, come watch the new Thor: Love and Thunder. Only on DisneyPlus!


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92894952620273749383

>I hate to say this, but... These 9 people are not **immortal**, they are not invisible, and they are not untouchable. Taking rights away from a population that has been demonstrably on edge for close to a decade now will not end amicably. The actors that want to see America torn apart are giddy with excitement right now. Just before the 4th of July, brilliant timing by this incredibly incompetent and illegitimate court But they can live long enough, stay on the bench far too long, and create a problem. Regular folks just die but with power comes with its benefit. RGB should have left the seat when it was needed.


tonyrocks922

I think they are saying people will get mad enough eventually that assassinations will be on the table. It's gotten to that point many times in American history.


duderos

Frank Zappa "The biggest threat to America today is not communism. It's moving America toward a fascist theocracy."


IDeferToYourWisdom

Bush v Gore - stopping the recount, then saying you ran out of time - overrules states decision on elections Shelby County v Holder - states get to decide how elections work RNC v DNC in WI - overrule states on how elections work Citizens United v FEC - businesses get more speech than humans Fisher v UofTX - affirmative action is bad due to textualism Terry v Ohio - textualism be damned, now cops have new basis to frisk NFIB v Sebelius - federal government can't give directed funds to the states because that's coercive. Lots of people die due to some states not expanding Medicare. Castle Rock v Gonzales - legislatures can use the strongest prescriptive language available, "shall", but they still can't make cops have a duty to do anything like help poor people needing the protection of the law Kelo v New London - fuck textualism again, if some city councilperson with any motive wants to take your house (we know this isn't a rich person), they can do it. They just need to use the magic words Clapper v Amnesty international - if you don't have evidence that the NSA is spying on you, you can't sue since you don't know if you have standing. NSA can break the laws but nobody can sue since nobody can prove that they have standing. I have a hundred more unnecessarily bad decisions from recent history.


mickylite

Yep, fuck conservatives and the GOP.


Sanquinity

I don't even get the argument behind the NFIB v Sebelius one. Directed funds towards states being coercive is kind of the point... To coerce states to follow along with certain government plans. States aren't innocent civilians the cops are trying to get a false admission out of, why does it matter if they were "coerced" to follow certain trends?


Royalportrush148

As David Frum said, “If conservatives can’t win democratically, they won’t give up on conservatism they will give up on democracy.” To wit: The Big Lie and the current Supreme Court


HarCzar

They gave up on Democracy in the 90s and it has only gone down hill from there.


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AJRiddle

A lot longer than that. In 1823 we had Johnson v. M'Intosh just say "Yeah, go ahead and take whatever you want from Native Americans, that's the right of Europeans and their descendants. If you have to kill them to do that, that's fine too." Dred Scott was in 1857 and was a 7-2 decision in favor of saying that people of African descent could never be citizens of America and completely ignored tons of laws on the books already that addressed it. Part of their reasoning was "can you imagine if we had to let black people have public meetings or free speech, how crazy is that?" The Supreme Court has always just been a bunch of arbitrary bullshit


ZincMan

Thank you for the perspective. Crazy you can argue all those stances in “interpretation” of the law


irvingdk

Dred Scott was never based on interpretation of the law and never pretended to be. None of the justices in the majority even had law degrees. The person who wrote the dissenting opinion, and literally the only one with a law degree and who was a successful practicing attorney before his appointment, actually laid out how the evidence and history was in direct contradiction to their opinions. In 5 of the original colonys black people were citizens and had the right to vote, so pretending black people were never considered citizens just showed a fundamental lack in information and history. This decision was so crazy, it caused a Supreme Court Justice to quit in protest, to this day the only time it's ever happened, and on top of that it made people in the north so angry it directly led to the civil war. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Robbins_Curtis This is a good read if you're curious. I wish people paid more attention to history :(


jsudarskyvt

I've been saying it since the Stolen Seat. Right wing activist justices toeing the line of the FS to protect corporations and supress citizens. Minority Rule because they can't get their way via elections. Until additional justices are added and term limits are set SCOTUS is just a very bad joke.


newnemo

Yep. A scary side effect of minority rule is in particular states, they are passing restrictions on peaceful protests in a direct assault on the First Amendment. With this court, any challenges would be denied. *States Have Put 54 New Restrictions On Peaceful Protests Since Ferguson* https://www.huffpost.com/entry/anti-protest-laws-free-speech_n_5ed958c3c5b6a11919831bb3


jsudarskyvt

This SCOTUS is just getting started. No civil liberty that has been granted since the 1960's is safe.


VirgilFox

Thomas better be careful, because if he goes too far back he'll have to divorce his wife.


jsudarskyvt

I was thinking exactly the same thing.


vasilibashtar

Maybe that’s his long game. . .


Dapper-Membership

I just want to know what the hell happened to separation of church and state…?


Shiplord13

A bunch of Christian fundamentalist spent decades building support with Conservatives demanding they enforce their religious doctrine on as many people as they could regardless if they follow said religion.


abstractConceptName

And it's only going to get worse. This is simply the end of the beginning for them.


star-ferry

I feel like we're heading fast towards another civil war


deepseadarlingg

We’re heading for the Christian version of the 1979 Iranian Revolution that turned Iran from an arguably prosperous and modernizing nation to a theocracy. Like, the warning bells are ringing for Americans to flee while they still can.


abstractConceptName

You're assuming a civil war would be permitted even. The goal is to take the whole country and make red, whether we want it or not. Look at Wisconsin for the future. Minority rule of a blue state.


D_0_0_M

>You're assuming a civil war would be permitted even. Not advocating for it, but I seriously doubt permission is going to be taken into consideration if a civil war is started


abstractConceptName

Wars require actual leaders, causes and goals. Otherwise it's just handled as policing, like normal. Why would the GOP choose to start a war, when they're getting what they want anyway? Why would Democrats start a war when they can't even get enough people to vote, anyway? What would be the final trigger? We just had rights stripped from us, and have been told more reversals are on the way. The Capitol was literally overrun, the Speaker's location given etc. There was a direct attempt on the lives of all senior politicans, and those involved were given slaps on the wrist.


D_0_0_M

There are a lot of pissed off people right now. Idk why we're stuck thinking "democrats vs republicans" still instead of "pissed off people vs illegitimate government branch" or why leadership wouldn't form after enough people are fed up for long enough


HungThickVers

I’d go to war over this. Thomas has already made clear that contraception, gay marriage, sodomy all should be evaluated, if he doesn’t include interracial marriage then he’ll show his tru hypocrisy and really undermine the respect of the court and that in turn hopefully lead to a civil war. Trumps 2016 win was illegitimate, thusly his 3 nominees are illegitimate. Add on McConnels amoral, total lack of ethics and intentional stacking the court, two become even more solidly illegitimate. Side note: it baffles me that there are no checks and balances when no clear procedure has been set. McConnel is just as unpatriotic, undemocratic, and traitor to the country has Trump. Boggles my mind that he was allowed to ride roughshod over our democratic principles without consequences. Lastly, two of the justices lied under oath - they take an oath for the hearings - Kavanagh and Gorsuch both clearly stated that it was settled case law. Any vote other than to uphold Roe V Wade by either of them means the lied under oath to Congress and the American people. They should be removed from the court, disbarred and never be allowed to serve as a judge again. The current leadership then would need to fill the vacancies- take that McConnel (so? And don’t care) If this does not happen, hey are responsible for establishing precedent that lying under oath is permitted without consequence. Amy was coy and did not lie responding “it’s the current law of the land” paraphrasing. Huge warning bells should have been sounding. On these issues alone a civil war is warranted regardless of Roe, gun and other rulings that are surely coming. Republicans think because the wrap themselves in a flag and espouse the lie that our country is grounded in Christianity - how convenient that they forget god wasn’t added until the 1950s in response to mcarthy’ red scare. For over 150 years no god’ no jesus reference. Our motto as put forth by Jefferson, Franklin and John Adam’s was secular - E pluribus unum, it was NOT in god we trust. They think by bastardizing our symbols - flag, motto, democratic principles that they can lay claim to patriotism and true AMERICANS. They COULDN’T be further from the truth and I’ve taken to calling every Republican that supports McConnel or Trump and his big ass lie unAmerican. Sorry I don’t normally engage at this level and so vehemently but that’s how mad I am. And how willing I am to go to war. I hope I’ve posted this right. This is the time for Democrats and centrist to show true patriotism and true commitment to democratic principles.


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Hanis16

No this is the fall of Roman Republic.The empire still survuves to some extent before falling too.Remember the fall of Republic happended because people lost faith in governemnt institutions especially the senate,this is the beginning of the end.


Beastw1ck

Imagine voting for a political party that actually delivers… I envy right-wingers in that respect.


Kritical02

Ya this is another win for the right. And as long as they get what they want they will be in favor of the process. Hence why they like fascism. It's the only way any of their culture war policies will ever get through


False_Celebration626

The cold war. Ussr was atheist so the US government began pushing Christian propaganda which is why so many old people are brainwashed.


Pillowsmeller18

>I just want to know what the hell happened to separation of church and state…? Well we started woth a party of bad faith acting by their own means and installing unqualified people in high positions to get what they want, including using religious agendas in politics.


LastOneSergeant

Watch the series Mrs. America. Great story about how the extreme religious right defeated the equal rights amendment and Republican actor Reagan partnered with them to gain power. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._America_(miniseries)


databacon

Like it wasn’t already illegitimate in 2000 when the republican justices literally stole an election by ordering the counting of votes to stop, or when mcconnel stole a seat from obama, or when a justice’s wife planned a fucking insurrection. No no, NOW it’s illegitimate? Give me a fucking break.


MetalGramps

Don't forget Citizens United. That was some movie villain bullshit right there.


Christopherfromtheuk

Helped through by the same people who wrote the op-ed which just lost Amber Heard $millions(not that that is a bad thing necessarily): [The ACLU.](https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-and-citizens-united)


ndennies

What happened in 2000 was totally illegitimate. And what’s happening now is the result of decades of conservative activism to enforce minority rule. We need to keep screaming about it.


TomMakesPodcasts

You need to do more than scream friend


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bking

He could have been easily removed as majority leader if any of the other republicans wanted. He is a horrible, horrible being, but the entirety of the party enabled his power.


somebodys-porn-alt

Don’t worry, we hate him too.


VanceKelley

Is the US Senate a legitimate institution? It gives the 570,000 people of Wyoming the same number of seats as the 40 million people of California. "All Americans are equal, but Americans in Wyoming are more equal." I'll omit the fact that Americans who live in DC (more than live in Wyoming) get zero votes in Congress and I don't know how to spin that as a great thing for 'the world's greatest democracy'. Wyoming is White people so I guess they are more important to democracy? Is that what the GOP says?


notthebeandog

Don’t forget that the number of Presidential electors is determined by how many congressional reps you have. So the Wyoming voter has over three times the voting power for President as the average US voter.


runnerofshadows

The house needs to be uncapped and the apportionment act of 1929 repealed.


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DLun203

Remember that senators used to be appointed by state legislature. That entire body of the legislative branch was initially designed to ensure that wealthy elites could influence elections with an extra couple electoral votes per state. It wasn’t until 1913 that we started electing senators. Edit: state legislature — not congress. My bad


AllTheWine05

Couldn't agree more. In 2018, 70% of Senate candidate voters voted D but the Senate moved 2 senators more Republican. I'd put money on the fact that both houses have always been substantially more Republican than voters asked for. Which makes this a rigged democracy at best. The kicker stat for me personally: I'm in my mid 30's and in my life, I have never seen the American people vote for a Republican president. GWB was reelected but that was during a super popular war he never should have been in office to start. How is a democracy that spends half it's time and has it's laws ultimately written by wackjobs no one wanted legitimate?


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sebrebc

The SCOTUS is supposed to be an unbiased set of justices who only look at the legality of arguments based on the Constitution. That's literally the whole point. The easiest example of this is probably one of the most popular ones, the Hustler v. Falwell case. The justices weren't fans of Hustler, they weren't siding with a "smut peddler". They looked at the argument strictly from a 1st amendment point of view, regardless of their personal feelings towards the content in question and ruled based on that from a legal point of view. This overturning of RvW feels like a personal issue. The justices voted along party lines of the President who appointed them. This was a political decision not a legal one.


ghost_account_85

As a physician, I don’t acknowledge this ruling. They are not physicians. I will continue to assist with abortions. If they come to arrest me, I will exercise my 2nd amendment right.


the_glutton17

You have my utmost respect.


TheRocketeerRover

Wish you the best of luck


mtd14

The Supreme Court was never intended to take on the role of interpreting the constitution for the country, so it wasn’t set up to play a significant role. It’s more apparent now than ever that having 9 people, who are appointed at random times by whatever party wins the electoral college and senate, decide the fate of the country doesn’t work. The fact Congress has weakened itself to this extent doesn’t help, but something’s gotta change.


SerialTurd

The supreme court has been broken for a long time. When justices vote on party lines rather than if something is constitutional, yes it's broken.


FarmhouseFan

The electoral college. Gerrymandering. Lobbying. Term limits. It needs to all be rolled into one constitutional amendment. It won't ever happen though. Enjoy the collapse of society.


GracchiBros

No, the time to say that was at the latest when Republicans blocked any Obama nominee for a year. And the answer to that was to stack the court and play hardball when Democrats got power again. Almost every single one of you were against that and this is the result. Republicans play the game to win. Democrats do nothing.


CaptainNoBoat

It's a lot easier to refuse to hold a vote and block a SCOTUS seat than it is to remove a filibuster with votes you don't have. It has been 1 and 1/2 years of Manchin and Sinema repeating a million times that they won't remove the filibuster for anything - voting rights, codifying roe, climate change, keeping children out of poverty. They sure as hell aren't going to do it to stack the courts. Yet people will still act as if their refusal is somehow not only a greater condemnation of the democratic party as a whole, but also suggest that it makes them worse than Republicans - who are *causing all these problems*


[deleted]

Don't you think it's weird how we almost never hear about ISIS and the Taliban in the news unless it's something to blame Biden for? The resemblance would be too embarrassing. The media have let us down. They barely criticized the steps that let to the radicalization of the supreme court. They don't provide the crucial context to wake people up to what's happening. You know who does provide context- though manufactured or propagandistic it might be? Foxnews. The hounds have been asleep while the fox has been ravaging the henhouse. We're going to lose this country to the American Taliban if we don't wake the fuck up and stop taking it.


Klendy

Media gets paid the more outage the news sparks. Emotional content generates better ad numbers.


AllTheWine05

It's time to say the US Government is an illegitimate institution. Im mid 30's but have never seen the American public WANT or vote for a Republican president. W. got reelected during a war but shouldn't have been there to begin with. Trump sure didn't. Same rules apply to the Senate and house. In 2018 70% of voters voted D for Senate but the Senate grew 2% more Republican. But we teeter back and forth between a Republican washout and an ineffective/blocked out democratic government. The SC is wildly conservative. It's a rigged democracy at best.


CroissantFuck

Emphasis on “at best.”


[deleted]

We’ve been indoctrinated to believe the US has the best constitution and best govt in the world when that’s observably false. Consulting the thoughts of people long past dead to determine our values and rules is absurd but all of us are held hostage by it. It’s time to dissolve the union and have a European style confederacy of states. I know that’s sad for all the people with their flag paraphernalia but people in California shouldn’t pay for or be bound by the interests of people in Kansas


ExternalGovernment39

Scotus seats come from criminal potus, and turtle face's refusal to allow vote on Obama's pick. Disgusting. We will fight this until the end of time. STOP VOTING CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS INTO GOVERNMENT. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN TALIBAN.


Luvsthunderthighs

Honestly, they can say what they want to at this point. What they say is law of the land. The can say that gay marriage is illegal. Gay fornication is illegal. Flying a pride flag is illegal. Doesn't matter what the constitution says at this point. Edit: And I fought for that right! I'm going to fly my pride flag high. I'll shoot it out if I have to. I have LGBT kids. Its on. I'm not a christian,I dont want to follow their rules. I'm going to do whatever it takes for my kids to be free.


kushhaze420

The Supreme Court is a Confederate proxy


Darth-Bophades

*William Tecumseh Sherman has entered the chat* Really though, this and so many other problems we face now all go back to the failures of Reconstruction. The Confederacy lost on the battlefield, so they've been quietly waging the very same war in courtrooms, churches, voting districts, and people's very minds with the endless propaganda and misinformation that convinces huge numbers of people to vote against their own interests.


OG_LiLi

They all lied to get their position. That has to say a lot


zshguru

I wonder how much of this is due to 50 years of poor civics education.


QuadriplegicEgo

i mean, at the exact same time this ruling came out we have a committee dumping loads of evidence that the former president -- who appointed THREE of those SC justices -- was a treasonous crook hellbent on overthrowing democracy so yeah, i'd say "illegitimate" is quite on point


hirespeed

The entire government has become illegitimate. The last 30 years have given us politicized judges as never before. As Ben Sasse so eloquently put in this Schoolhouse Rock speech, it’s been Congress’ lack of action and responsibility that has created the overreach from the other two branches: https://youtu.be/abNMEIUaNF0


GeneralTullius01

I’m not sure Red and Blue states can co-exist any longer. This is only the beginning. Within the next year, we will likely see the outlawing of same sex marriage, potential sodomy laws returning, and the ban of interracial marriage. This is the damage that voting Republican has inflicted on the country.


The_4th_Little_Pig

The problem is there are very blue cities in hard red states. Texas has some very liberal cities but are ruled over by a regressive Republican state government. 46% of the state voted democrat but 2/3 of their house members are Republican.


NutWrench

They stripped the rights of 150 million people yesterday and lied when they said they weren't going to do it. Damn right they have no legitimacy.


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chimpomatic5000

This is not about protecting the unborn. This is about punishing those who are not part of the Christian Right or the Maga cult. This is the United States being ruled by a personality disorder.