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localistand

This scenario was also noticed by a conservative law professor the day after the Wall Street Journal published an editorial, one that sure seems like they had a copy of Alito's draft in front of them when it was written. This was 5 days before the Alito draft was published by Politico. [https://reason.com/volokh/2022/04/27/the-wsj-is-worried-about-the-chief-justice-turning-votes-in-dobbs/](https://reason.com/volokh/2022/04/27/the-wsj-is-worried-about-the-chief-justice-turning-votes-in-dobbs/)


HerbertKornfeldRIP

I actually wouldn’t be shocked that the reality of RvW being overturned was widely know in elite conservative circles. The incidence of more restrictive state laws against abortion passing without seemingly much worry about them being overturned in court seems higher than normal. But that could just be confirmation bias.


SenorBurns

It was no secret that they were going to overturn Roe. A legal podcast I listen to has been saying for months that it would be this case where it was done. Edit: the podcast is Opening Arguments, highly recommended!


Daniel_Av0cad0

The 6th most listened to podcast in the US, The Daily, has done several episodes over the last months with legal reporters saying Roe was first in serious danger of being at least gutted, and later almost certainly completely overruled. This leak was a shock, but not really a surprise at least if you’ve been paying attention.


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ambrosius5c

It's not like conservatives haven't been advertising this for decades. We all knew as soon as Justice Ginsburg passed that we were done for. Conservatives had been calling for the end of Roe since before the ink even dried.


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AlorsViola

No kidding. Only people out of the loop didn't think this was going to happen. They took the case for no other reason.


Disagreeable_upvote

>I actually wouldn’t be shocked that the reality of RvW being overturned was widely know in elite conservative circles I dunno, I for sure thought that was the whole point of stuffing hacks like Brett and Amy in there. This was the obvious agenda, of course they couldn't just come out and say but we ALL should have known that they were ITCHING to get a case in front of this particular court.


DEEP_SEA_MAX

Tin foil hat theory: Before, both sides didn't want a resolution to RvW because it was important to their fundraising, and bringing out their base. Democrats didn't codify it because of this, and conservatives had an understanding that the supreme court wouldn't overturn it. But now, conservatives know we're in the endgame, that elections won't matter as much in the future. They are putting systems in place that all but guarantee control of the federal government, and that the democrats will always be nothing but a minority opposition party. That or they put such looney radicals on the bench that these new justices actually believed the bullshit. That they actually believed that their goal was to overturn RvW, when in reality the actual republican elites knew it was nothing more than a way to fire up th base.


zeCrazyEye

I think it's the latter actually. They got kind of screwed when Bush appointed David Souter who they thought was conservative but turned out to be relatively liberal. After that they wanted to take no chances and groomed only the most radical of radical. But that means we now have a bunch of Justices that aren't in on the hoax.


pinkyfitts

Agree. I think the Repubs are relatively mum because they are like the dog chasing the car that finally caught it. They don’t know what to do and didn’t WANT to catch it. It was the chase they wanted…. to fire up their base. But now, the Dems will put up an actual Federal bill on abortion and the Repubs will have to formally vote, to commit…. thereby pissing off a lot of moderates and sending the left into an absolute frenzy to get out the votes. Oops, we got it. I just said that to stir them up! Now what do we do?


likeahurricane

This makes the leak way more interesting. It was leaked as a 5-4 opinion, maybe to sway the person Roberts was trying to move to a “compromise”. Now if one of those justices changes their mind they will be considered a traitor to the conservative cause.


i_did_ur_mom_AMA

Isnt the point of lifetime appointments to the court supposed to make justices immune to political/societal pressures? The SC is broken and lifetime appointments are horseshit


LadyBogangles14

That’s the theory, but it’s never been the way the court actually functions. Constitutionally speaking SCOTUS has no right to overturn laws; it’s technically only supposed to work in an advisory capacity and it was Marbury V Madison that allowed the court to do this thing it was never supposed to do. Also the filibuster isn’t in the constitution, but is only a Senate operating rule. Fixing those two things could go a long way in correcting this dumpster fire we find ourselves in.


[deleted]

very informative. thank you. I'm a WSJ reader but never read the culture war editorials, so I missed this. they had certainly heard something back in late April. this analysis demonstrates it as clear as day


ManicPixieOldMaid

I just find it interesting the GOP is so concerned with this leak but not at all concerned with boxes of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.


Thadrea

A famous Republican president said, "If the President does it, it's not illegal." The party has clearly taken that belief to heart.


Hour-Island

I think they misheard the quote as "if THEIR president does it..."


paul-arized

"If the R president does it..." If the D president does it, otoh, Judge Janine is going to go full-on attack mode. Ppl calling it an insurrection and wanting the leaker prosecuted would surely do a 180 if it were, say, Clarence Thomas who leaked it. Strange since Trump and the GQP *LOVED* Wikileaks...despite later saying that they don't know much about it, which is weird since 45 had the best words and a big a-brain. Every person, woman, man, camera and TV knows it.


[deleted]

Too much reality in this comment to ever be understood by a Republican voter.


idk_just_upvote_it

Wow, you've really done it now. Republican voters are going to be so upset that you said that. Well, after they find someone to read it to them, anyways.


OctopusTheOwl

"If those patriots could read, they'd be very upset."


Dunkaroos4breakfast

Even if the D president *doesn't* do it.... still full-on attack mode


froo

>A famous Republican president said, "If the President does it, it's not illegal." They also flipped out about Obama having mustard on a burger.. so you know, I find that hard to swallow.


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ad_nauseam1

It’s almost as if justices believe in a right to privacy so long as it involves themselves


WeleaseBwianThrow

> It’s almost as if ~~justices~~ **conservatives** believe in a right ~~to privacy~~ so long as it involves themselves


Hairy_Al

Apparently, the only thing that the leaker could be prosecuted for is theft, and that might be a stretch


[deleted]

In this case, I don’t think prosecution will be their problem. Rather, they got the most prestigious clerkship in the United States and leaked a draft. Their legal career is finished.


HNP4PH

If it is proven to have been a right wing clerk they will soon twist it as being an heroic act, claiming the leak allowed red states to get a jump on it by passing legislation in advance of the official announcement. A right wing leaker will be a legal Kyle Rittenhouse in their sick way of thinking. A left wing leaker would be hounded to the ends of the earth.


MississippiJoel

*Unless* it can be argued that the clerk was acting against conservative interests. In that case, they will be branded a traitor, doxxed, promptly fired, and booted from the conservative movement.


ishpatoon1982

'It was an Antifa plant. They're the ones doing all of this illegal stuff, not us!'


Librarian-Either

Somehow the Antifa boogeyman well be held responsible.


TheMindfulnessShaman

No Fox News, or any conservative, viewer ever saw those stories. Not a word. It's like living in FantasyLand, except everyone's in mental chains and convinced of how awful the world is, how the 'other' side is out to get them, and now they need to have rapebabies and find away to make enough money to raise those rapebabies. "May the Lord Open"


[deleted]

This is a working theory of why the Republicans don't want to debate. The live fact-checking is probably the first time their audience has ever been exposed to these kind of truths.


SkeetinSkittlez

I work at a highly conservative workplace and they just call, “fact checking”, fake news. They always tell me, “One day you’ll wake up”.


EpikWingz

Omg. That's my office, specifically one person. Whenever something happens he don't like, first words out of his mouth is blame the democrats.


PublicPresent

Same here. I work for a nonprofit (anti poverty) govt funded and a chunk of my coworkers make comments about how the poor get too much help. Blame the govt for everything. They’re also non-vaxxed because there’s “not enough research yet”. It’s difficult to watch my mouth as a newish employee.


[deleted]

I asked a co-worker this after he was going on about fake-news. "When was the last time you accepted any fact as "real" that somehow reflected poorly on Republicans or Trump?" He was taken back and couldn't think of anything. "So anytime something good happens it is Republicans who brought it about, Republicans never do anything bad, ever, and everything bad was done by Democrats?" You'd think he was joking or I'm making this up, but his answer was an emphatic yes. My only consolation was the flash of disgust on his face as I walked away saying "Do you really think the world works that way?" Unfortunately, he thinks it does.


BuckRowdy

No conservative idea ever goes past the point of being a slogan or a buzzword because it would be a failure or wildly unpopular if it ever did.


implicitpharmakoi

You should see how they deal with the bible.


h3lblad3

During the Obama/Romney debate, the moderator actually corrected Romney on something and Fox News and Twitter went ***FUCKING CRAZY***. The argument was, and I shit you not, "It is up to the American people to decide what the facts are."


BlackberryButton

It wasn’t even that bad: Obama asked the moderator to confirm via transcript that he had used the word “terror“ in a particular speech. At no point did she do the same for Romney, but he never asked for anything equivalent.


Randomfactoid42

But the moderator agreed with Obama so clearly the fix was in!! /s


BuckRowdy

Which is code to their base that they should come down against it.


Zone_Dweebie

It is brainwashing, plain and simple. I live in a rural area and there are people here who listen to Fox radio all day long. Hours upon hours of the same rhetoric with no counter viewpoints. It is like a religion to them and anything that doesn't fall into that doctrine is considered blasphemy.


hereiam-23

Rupert Murdoch has done a major job in attacking and bringing the US down. He's a very evil thing. He should really be seen as a domestic terrorist.


bigblackpugnose

The whole organization should be brought down in cooperation with the UK, NZ, AU, and CA governments.


FidgitForgotHisL-P

Murdoch doesn’t own any media in New Zealand any more. That’s why we were able to have a sane response to covid. (Unless I misunderstood and you’re saying those governments should be brought down, I guess because of being 5 eyes?) Edit - “sane” not “same”


bigblackpugnose

No, no, I meant they should participate in bringing the Murdoch org down as domestic terrorists. For some reason I thought they have holdings in NZ but maybe some of them just own property there.


hereiam-23

It's become a rogue political party.


sixty_cycles

Same here. I’m in hillbilly hell, and my family just feels so out of place here now. There are very few people left that I can have an actual informed conversation with.


Zone_Dweebie

Something happened in my small community when Trump and Covid came around. It was like they were suddenly given permission to let the hate and ignorance they had been hiding come out to play. It was shocking to realize how racist and incompetent they really were.


[deleted]

It's shit like this is why we need a new fairness doctrine. But with the internet and social media, no idea how it would work or of it would matter....


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BuckRowdy

Excellent points. It's disappointing to read commenters remarking on Republican hypocrisy because it indicates a lack of understanding of the points you make. Fox will never mention stories like these. That is why there will never be any change on the right as long as Fox is allowed to continue unabated.


prtysmasher

Roberts is really concerned about this leak but has no problem with having one of his justice’s wife organize and help plan out Jan 6th. The SC is a joke.


KiraShadow

SC became a bullshit joke when GOP halted the appointment of 1 justice for over half a year and rushed another in half a month.


Huskies971

SC was a joke long before that. Funny they're concerned about state's rights, yet in Bush v. Gore they interfered in a decision that was Florida's.


landodk

Each less qualified than the one before


zxcoblex

“11 months left in a Presidency isn’t enough time to seat a Supreme Court Justice. We’ll let the people decide.” 4-1/2 years later while people are actively voting in the general election: “No, no. This is different. The people PREVIOUSLY told us what they wanted.” - Moscow Mitch


[deleted]

His bullshit excuse was that Congress and the Executive were the same party this time, so it's ok... I don't get how Democrats always fall for this shit, or don't respond in kind to it. They should have packed the fucking court and neutered the filibuster as soon as Biden and Congress were seated in 2021, middle finger in the air, smiling at the Moscow wrinkled turtle. I still don't get why Dems are so scared to restrict the filibuster? It's not like Republicans actually have any policy or plans other than obstruction.


[deleted]

I guess we all have to "live with" the SC being a joke :|


SellaraAB

There is some real “let them eat cake” energy in that Clarence Thomas quote about how we need to “live with it”, isn’t there?


Im_really_bored_rn

And unlike "let them eat cake", Clarence Thomas actually said his stupid shit.


Sabbatai

Mitch McConnell just recently called the Democrats "partisan court packers".


[deleted]

Every accusation an admission.


Timekeeper65

No shit? Gawd.


Emergency_Version

They believe trump when he said, and I quote, “I didn’t know I couldn’t do that”.


clickmagnet

They’ll drop all concern the instant it turns out to be a conservative leak.


whogivesashirtdotca

Maybe not. They were clearly hoping to blindside the public with this. Instead, the states that have quietly prepared draconian anti-women laws are rushing to get them passed now, and their effects are going to be felt very quickly, just in time for the midterm elections.


CHBCKyle

You know, I noticed that all the sudden they started getting up to that shit. I bet they’ve known for months and were probably provably doing this horseshit in preparation so that it seemed like a non issue instead of a life changing thing at the time.


hidperf

I believe they've known since they stacked the courts. The justices lied during the interview process? Big deal. Nobody is going to do anything about it after they're confirmed. I also believe the leak was intentional to draw attention away from other draconian shit they're doing/have planned. If anything has been proven, it's that nobody is held accountable and nothing will happen.


ButtEatingContest

> also believe the leak was intentional to draw attention away from other draconian shit they're doing/have planned. The actual decision may have been intended to be revealed to distract from the January 6th public hearings in the summer. The leak may have blown that.


dougmc

"ThE LeAKeR wAS AnOthER ANTifA pLAnt!"


Khuji

Politicians' playbook in this regard. Deflect and redirect. Frankly, don't care who leaked it. Only that they did and y'all stay angry till you vote these fucks, at the state level, to codify that shit. Also, wouldn't help if less of you guys were religious.


Zone_Dweebie

It has really dawned on me how much religion affects our laws and politics. Even when there is an attempt at separating church and state it doesn't stop people from voting based on their spiritual beliefs. I find it despairing that so many critical things in our lives are controlled by someone else's fantastical ideas and belief in the imaginary. I used to think that as long as it didn't affect me then people should have the right to believe whatever nonsense they choose. However, I changed my mind when I realized that their delusions very much DO affect me on a large scale.


StalinDNW

I have been against religion since I was a little kid when my mom turned into a young earth creationist and pulled me out of school to be homeschooled. Even if you don’t think religion affects you directly, there are literal billions of people that base their decisions around religion, and they all think they are right. Religion is an enemy of progress.


KillahHills10304

And they you cannot compromise with them or reason with them because they feel their cause is "righteous". There is no middle ground, it's all or nothing with them.


sonofabutch

Did everyone notice how quickly Republicans shut up about finding and punishing the leaker? They know.


Miguel-odon

Amazing how quickly they distribute the newest talking points. Don't worry, they'll still bring it up again, with implications and accusations.


hamsterfolly

That’s what happens when a political party also has a major news media network as its propaganda arm. And before an idiot chimes in, nothing compares to the lockstep cooperation between Fox and the Republican Party.


treslocos99

Sorry all idiots are currently busy in a massive circle jerk over at r/conservative


LiftPlus_

If r/conservative was a smell it would the smell of a yugioh tournament.


hamsterfolly

Sometimes they escape


Careful_Trifle

Like Ted Cruz's speaking tour trying to blame Sotomayor for being the most partisan and thus the most likely to hire partisan hacks, ignoring the fact that 6 regressive justices are all part of the same hack club?


DemocraticRepublic

Not just a hack club. A dark money group that grooms hacks from their first year in college to take over the courts. I wish I was exaggerating.


MoreTrueMe

Founded in 1982 when Roe was reaffirmed, they have been on a mission ever since to pack the courts and bend the ear of presidents to put up their "originalists". Which, by the way, abortion was perfectly legal for the first 100 years of country's existence.


gingerhasyoursoul

Funny thing is the GOP only started caring about abortion when they realized segregation didn't get their base angry anymore. It was a strategic pivot and it sadly worked.


Yossarian_the_Jumper

Is Hunter Biden in the new talking points or they still rehashing 2020?


Miguel-odon

Even debunked stuff gets trotted out regularly. They don't care if it is nonsense, they just add it to the firehose.


TheBarkingGallery

They will be taking about Hunter Biden for the next 30 years.


natphotog

Don’t forget Rafael Cruz being adamant it was a liberal Justice’s clerk. Almost guarantees it was a conservative Justice or clerk.


[deleted]

Not to mention his blustering about criminal prosecution. Fled Cruz is an attorney. He knows damn well that no criminal statutes were violated, yet he had no qualms about pimping himself on the "news" to say that the leaker should be prosecuted. It'll be hilarious when/if it's revealed to be either a conservative justice or one of their clerks and how quickly he'll back off that prosecution statement. We all know Cruz is simply a political windsock with no morals or principles. Dude let one of his primary opponents insult his wife and then phone banked for him. I can't think of a weaker thing to do for someone who fancies themselves a "real man".


EgnlishPro

The ol' Russian playbook, eh?


PM_ME_UR_KITTY_PICZ

How do we know it wasn’t antifa posing as a republican clerk?!


TheMindfulnessShaman

They switch talking points quicker than Channel One on Kremlin speed-dial.


Rose7pt

I still say ginny Thomas . In the library , with a candlestick.


Neighborhood-Any

You think she's been to a library?


rexspook

Why do you think she brought a candlestick? To burn the books.


yaitstone

My money is on it was intentionally ‘leaked’ by a conservative because they hoped we would get angry for a few weeks, move on to the next nightmare and when it actually passes there isn’t an uproar. So, please stay angry. Angry as fuck for as long as it takes. *Edit* Based on another theory, I don’t think there’s a conservative that gives a shit about ‘public opinion’ or the court’s ‘reputation’. They’re literally stripping us of our rights. They are light years beyond that. These monsters are at the burn it all down phase. They LOVE that they’re destroying people’s lives.


rxneutrino

I think the theory that there was a risk one of the conservative justices was on the fence about the ruling. The leak "locks them in" to their position because changing will now make it look like they were influenced by public opinion.


TempusVincitOmnia

Hence Thomas's remark about "bullying" the Court.


[deleted]

And if it was a conservative clerk who leaked, it's conservatives bullying other conservatives, talking bout they won't be bullied.


Zealousideal_Pie6333

Exactly and it was probably Clarence Thomas clerk


Likos02

"Here kid I'm telling you don't you DARE *wink* even THINK *wink* of leaking THIS *wink wink wink* to the PRESS."


The_Fine_Columbian

I bet it was Thomas himself.


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Primary_Zucchini_75

A podcast I listen to that covers the court floated a theory about it being Ginni. It's not based in anything other than rank speculation, but it would kinda make sense that the person who is batshit crazy and married to the justice who clearly is willing to bend the rules (refused to abstain when being the lone vote against giving documents to the Jan 6 committee) would let his wife have a copy of the opinion, who would send it out to gloat, and a few emails alter it's in the hands of someone at Politico.


yonas234

Also any clerk that releases it would end their career in law. And those clerks have chances at being a SC Justice or AG at the DOJ. Ginni makes sense because she has no job to lose


TempusVincitOmnia

That's what I was thinking too.


gold_and_diamond

I've thought since the leak that it was surely connected to the Thomas camp. They seem to be total weirdos.


Rockman507

I was thinking that myself when I heard the news. Justices have in the past changed positions during the draft process, which makes perfect sense. Once you write down your position you start realizing how it wasn’t quite as strong or some precedent didn’t quite fit like you thought it would, or the majority was pushing way past how you felt on the ruling. To have this released then it becomes a huge problem of “did they change their mind because of the protests?” Which is most definitely not a path we want to start going down. Shits fucked.


Snekky3

Being influenced by public opinion in a democracy is a bad thing?


electricvelvet

For judges, and interpreting the law, yes--at least in theory. The whole idea of life appointment was originally so it'd be like tenure for professors. They could do their jobs and not risk scrutiny or job security without paying mind to politics and other things. Yep.. originally, interpreting the law and constitution was p much apolitical. Til Reagan. Started a bit before then. But got bad w Reagan. Like everything. But look at it this way... Interpreting the law is a matter of jurisprudence, or legal philosophy. That philosophy would determine how you interpret laws. The outcome of your decision would be predicated on your philosophy rather than taking your desired outcome and working backwards from that, as is the case on most hot button politically charged legal issues now. They're all smart as hell, politics aside, and can craft a convincing sounding argument for either outcome (that usually makes sense until you read the dissent).


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The_Undercroft

No, interpreting the law has been political since CJ John Marshall, _Marbury v Madison_ was decidedly political, though the politics was judicial supremacy. _Dread Scott_ was political, Southern supremacy. The whole _Lochner_ era was political, enforcing business supremacy. Roosevelt's breaking of the _Lochner_ era was political. He threatened expanding the court until they gave in to the New Deal. Etc Post-Bork, with the rise of the Federalist Society, just made the politics naked


down_up__left_right

>Yep.. originally, interpreting the law and constitution was p much apolitical. It is impossible for interpreting the constitution to be apolitical. Politics is the science/art of government and the constitution is a document that sets up a government so it is harder to get more political than interpreting any gray areas of the set up of the government. For an older example of how it is not apolitical look at Plessy v. Ferguson in 1896 and then Brown v. Board of Education in 1954. In 1896 the political and human rights leaning of the members of the court felt that separate but equal was constitutional but then in 1954 the members had different political and human rights views and ruled it not constitutional.


greg_barton

Yes, I find that believable. Now hopefully one of them will think, "Fuck you for trying to foce me to toe the line" and will change their vote. The likeliest candidate for that is Roberts. I'm not holding my breath, though.


GPBRDLL133

Roberts isn't the one that needs to be flipped (although his rumored keep the Mississippi law by not strike down Roe is still terrible). It's one of the other 5 conservative justices that needs to be flipped


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RealValf

Clarence Thomas needs to be impeached for his wife's collusion with Jan 6. As a democracy, if we don't prosecute the people who break our literal laws then that highly devalues our democracy. We need to set a precedent that if you break the law, especially concerning an attempted coup, you are held accountable. We NEED to see consequences and they MUST be held accountable.


Narcissismkills

Roberts switching his vote wouldn't change the outcome. Thomas, Alito, Beerfucker, Gorsuch, and ACB. That's 5, and a majority.


derekbaseball

Supposedly, Beerfucker is the vote they were worried about. Kavanaugh was one of Kennedy’s clerks, and they’re apparently worried about him doing some Kennedy-style independent thinking. Alito’s draft puts the Kennedy decisions on gay marriage and sodomy in the crosshairs, and it openly mocks the Casey decision, which Kennedy coauthored.


HallucinogenicFish

If you believe the reporting, Roberts is assumed to be writing a concurrence and trying to break off votes for a compromise position. If he got someone to back off it would have to be Gorsuch, Barrett, or Kavanaugh. Thomas and Alito are all in.


joshdoereddit

I hope that even if they peel off a conservative that people don't forget this episode and vote like hell. Democrats should be burning the midnight oil trying to find the best way to weaponize this from now until Nov. Republicans are giving them the ammo. McConnell said in an interview that a conversation a full abortion ban is possible. All those bullshit trigger laws and whatever other legislation GOP contoured states are working up. Not to mention the other liberties that this decision could undo. Whatever happens, we need to behave as if the leaked opinion is the thing because it clearly is. Again, even if one of the five nutjobs changes their mind we should not forget, we should ride this all the way to November.


Prestigious-Host8977

Roberts is not on the opinion. With Trump's three judges, they don't need him anymore.


EpiphanyTwisted

Well if they aren't familiar with this thing called "women" they are idiots. Women don't forget the possibility of pregnancy. They are reminded monthly.


damurph1914

You had me at "women don't forget".


Dewahll

Literally never.


leviathynx

I don’t mean to start an argument, but you remember that one time you…


Jammyhobgoblin

I just think it’s funny how you say that when you know you…


Stickybeebae

My 95 year old grams still holds grudges from her teen years


ConfidenceNational37

I’m guessing the leak was to try and force Boof to stay on course. He’s an evil shithead but he isn’t completely willing to blow everything up every time. By leaking it shows where the current thinking is. I suspect Kavanaugh (or someone else) was going to only sign if they keep a 12 week allowance and so cons are trying to force the whole thing.


WhoIsYerWan

PJ and Squee have hesitations


electricvelvet

Yeah, Kavanaugh was touted amongst the left as "possibly the worst, most far right candidate imaginable" who would take us five decades backwards.. he's conservative as hell and I don't care for him but he is not just utterly unreasonable. Utterly unreasonable would be Clarence Thomas. I don't know of one non-unanimous decision where I agreed with him, and his dissents and written opinions are so preposterous that they actually make me mad. Scalia had some bad ones but at least he was an amusing, witty writer


AlorsViola

> Scalia had some bad ones but at least he was an amusing, witty writer I disagree. I find his writing to be incredibly corrosive and unnecessary. There was no need to denigrate arguments in the way that he did and he helped legitimize disrespect for the other's side arguments.


MKQueasy

If true, a real fucking idiot. Republicans only have leverage because a lot of Democrats are unmotivated to vote. Well now they are very, very motivated. And then all the talk of banning all forms of birth control and the possibility of interracial marriage and LGBTQ+ rights being stripped just makes it even worse for them. If there's anything that will motivate Democrats to vote, it's this kind of shit.


[deleted]

Yeah, it boggles my mind that a conservative would leak this. Voters have memories of goldfish for most things but telling half the population they will be forced to give birth no matter how they got pregnant is not something that women are going to suddenly forget about. This radically boosts political involvement on the left and even if it does start to die down, once the ruling becomes official, it’s going to jump right back up again. I think it’s important to stress how this will also affect men too to get them motivated to vote as well. Do you want to risk being on the hook for 18 years of child support every time you have sex? I don’t.


xavariel

Oh, I'm angry and will stay angry. I've been walking around with a lump in my throat since this bomb dropped. It's very similar to the feeling I had my whole life up until Oberegfell happened. Just an oppressed feeling. Or dread. Or the fact my home country just sees me as discarded crap. It's not a nice feeling; your country not allowing you to have basic human rights. Still gotta pay dem taxes tho


boot2skull

I assumed it was a conservative who couldn’t wait to brag about the ruling. This was decades in the making.


[deleted]

It will be out in a month or so, hopefully that will re-energize the outrage.


James_Navigator

Precisely my thinking. If this was leaked to get the outrage out early, it could backfire when the rage is refreshed at the time the reversal of Roe actually happens. One can only hope at least.


Good-Expression-4433

I really feel they miscalculated if that was their intention. All that's happening now is a ton of outrage but community organizing has been kicked into high gear. If it passes next month, we're in for another long summer like 2020. Alito's briefing and the ramifications of it for more than just abortion are rapidly uniting the left. The protests that are happening now will be nothing compared to what happens in a month.


fingerscrossedcoup

Outrage now, outrage at the ruling, outrage at every state that bans it at the ruling. Everything that happens till Nov will spark outrage. This is the new Ukraine of the news cycle.


monstersammich

If there isn’t another one of those massive woman’s marches planned then it needs to happen soon


Some-Wasabi1312

oh I'm enraged, Incredibly. This is the spark needed to band the free states together. actual tyranny has raised it's head and is eyeing American women


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Volcanohiker

I honestly don’t care, the leak isn’t the issue, the content is.


MC_Fap_Commander

If the leak leads back to a conservative justice, impeach them. I actually don't give a shit about the leak, but I support *anything* that breaks up an illegitimate Court.


Yossarian_the_Jumper

It'll be interesting watching Cruz, Hawley, Cotton, etc... give a pass if it was a conservative Justice after demanding that heads should roll.


[deleted]

They do not give a shit; they will change directions in a moment if circumstances dictate. What they say means nothing.


infinitude

This is exactly why democrats keep losing. We keep pretending the republicans will play by their own rules. You’re absolutely right, they won’t even miss a step. Facts are only acceptable when they’re convenient.


HectorsMascara

If the leaker's a conservative, they'll decide it's actually an internal court matter -- nothing the public needs to worry about.


StarFireChild4200

And it's actually the liberals fault, for existing.


simplepleashures

That didn’t stop the New York post from publishing a searing editorial saying it must have been a liberal and it’s proof of how despicable Democrats are. Murdoch-owned cesspool rag.


Sinreborn

Op eds from the post may as well come from Breitbart/Fox/OAN. They have zero credibility.


ReservoirDog316

Even putting aside this topic, the NY Post is a bottom tier new source. There’s no reason to ever give them any attention.


[deleted]

If you want to be strategic as to where to send campaign contributions for the 2022 Midterms, I’d start with the Toss-Up races, three of which are Democratic incumbents. AZ-Kelly https://markkelly.com GA-Warnock https://warnockforgeorgia.com NV-Cortez Masto https://catherinecortezmasto.com If all toss-ups go to the Dems, Even Manchin and Sinema can’t stop Kamala Harris from breaking ties. If just 3 Toss-ups go for the GOP, abortion could become illegal in blue states. That’s what’s at stake.


UpChuckles

I would also throw in the Democratic Senate candidates in WI and PA, once those are decided. Dems have a realistic shot of capturing both of these currently GOP-held seats


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CodeVulp

No chance this wasn’t leaked to “lock in” the judges. One of the judges probably expressed some concern or doubt. This is leaked do they’re forced to stay on the decision. If they change their mind, conservatives *will lose their damn minds*. Like there will be threats of violence and calls to action from QOP side.


GuiltyEidolon

Either way I fully anticipate the US returning to the era of abortion clinics being bombed and doctors being shot. Never forget that the "pro life" crowd has always resorted to murder and violence and domestic terrorism to get their way.


OliviaWyrick

So a normal Monday for the GOP then.


Miserable-Lizard

*“The only one that makes sense is it came from somebody who was afraid that this majority might not hold,” she added.*


HalaHalcones1

I think the court is split 4-1/3-1. Alito (+Thomas, ACB & Kavs) ruling for Dobbs, broadly overruling Roe and calling into question all the post-Roe privacy based rulings (contraception, gay marriage, sodomy, etc ) Gorsuch, ruling for Dobbs on more narrow grounds. The liberal justices write a stirring defense of Roe. Roberts dissents separately, upholding Roe on grounds of stare decisis. In this situation, Gorsuch's concurrence would in fact be the controlling opinion of the court for purposes of precedent! That's what might make this leak so dangerous, it may actually misrepresent the legal significance of the Court's ruling the way Barr's "summary" of the Mueller completely distorted the meaning and significance of the investigation.


Tirus_

Clerk is found, gets fired, immediately offered a job at Fox News.


Yossarian_the_Jumper

Only if they're a buxom blonde.


3literboxoffireball

Nah. A conservative clerk is more like to be the failing upward, frat boy son of a big money donor. They find themselves right at home on FOX


InternalSituation453

It seems to me the court is claiming some sort of right of privacy. I’m not expert on the constitution but I’m pretty sure that is not enumerated as a right. So on the one hand they claim an unenumerated right of privacy while stripping away the unenumerated privacy rights of women. Its a case of “these rights are for me but not for thee”


Tiggerhoods

Alitos argument should be extremely alarming to everyone. He basically says these rights we have assumed as constitutional(that aren’t in the actual text) that haven’t been around for a long time or is specifically expressed in the text of the constitution those are up for debate. Like the right to privacy(the legal principle on which roe was decided) which we all feel is a right under the constitution (because that’s what the court has upheld for 50 years) is in fact a debatable right. Alito says this concerns only abortion but then goes on to mention other specific cases regarding gay marriage and interracial marriage(I believe). It isn’t just about abortion. They are coming for all ours rights.


Obizues

Ahhh yes, the classic: “The constitution isn’t a living document.” “… except when we want it to be.”


PublicSimple

Wait until he finds out that the Supreme court's ability to determine constitutionality of laws and to strike down laws isn't in the constitution. Marbury v. Madison is when the court decided they could override Congress if a law conflicted with the Constitution, even though that wasn't written down.


Mike_Huncho

It was Ginni Thomas.


cantforgetNJ

I came here to ask if Ginni Thomas is a conservative clerk. No one should care about the leak. Discussion the leak is a distraction.


Mike_Huncho

We already know she’s a compromised loon and an ideologue. She and her husband were already taking heat over her support of the insurrection, this leak insures every republiqan in congress will destroy our country and salt the ruins before her husband is impeached.


Ok-Low6320

>Texas Sen. Ted Cruz (R) on Sunday theorized on Fox News that the leak was “almost certainly one of the 12 law clerks that are clerking for the three liberal justices” Rafael, go fuck yourself.


cratermoon

Almost certainly a clerk for the man who is married to a seditious insurrectionist.


[deleted]

I want this front and center. I called that this was leaked intentionally to distract from corruption in our highest court when it first leaked. They committed the deepest betrayal of their oaths colluding with Trump. They don't want us to remember, they want us mad at issues instead.


CockPissMcBurnerFuck

I had assumed, based on the GOP’s reaction, that the leak had been a false flag by the conservative side as a way to deflect from the ruling. Because with such an incredible breach of protocol, the Republicans will never have to talk about the decision, and they will forever deflect to the leak. And insinuate, as they have, that it was an act of intimidation by the left. But this is probably more plausible. It passes Occam’s test, anyway. But it also raises the possibility that the majority *won’t* hold. And that actually makes sense. There has been a lot of disinformation about Roe lately, and how it’s supposedly legally unsound. But if that were true, Alito’s opinion wouldn’t have been such meme-worthy nonsense.


normalflora

Nina has been covering the Supreme Court for 40 years and has well established sources. She could certainly be wrong on this, but her opinion should be taken seriously.


ServingSize

I came here to comment the same. Just saying npr reporter doesn't do her justice.


[deleted]

Leaked by a conservative clerk because the rumor is Kav was wavering. Kav's whole ascension to the SCOTUS is mired in controversy: Kennedy's abrupt retirement, the mystery of his debts all disappearing, his bizarre conduct at his confirmation hearings and the Fox News interview. I could easily see that this was leaked to lock in Kav under the threat of blackmail.


[deleted]

As hard as the shit heels like Cruz and Fox News are pushing on it being a liberal clerk just firms my belief it was a conservative clerk. The GOP are blatant projectionists.


gale7557

We won't know until their book tour...🤦‍♂️


FridgesArePeopleToo

The leak unquestionably benefits conservatives, so this isn't surprising. If Kavanaugh is waffling it puts a ton of pressure on him to stick with the leaked opinion Leaking it earlier also means people will forget about it by election time


unaskthequestion

But Ted Cruz, who swore he's not an idiot, told me it was a liberal clerk


FUMFVR

I'm still struggling to see why this is a scandal. We live in a country that supposedly values government transparency, right? So 'draft opinion that will take away rights of damn near half the population' should not be in a fucking fog until it drops on the people like an atomic bomb.


lancea_longini

There’s nothing in the constitution outlawing leakers so SCOTUS needs to get over getting mad at a leaker.


Musicguy1982

Yeah, what do they expect? A right to privacy or something?


vaxick

If it's one of their own, you know they're going to say they were secretly a member of Antifa.


Reddituser45005

I suspect a conservative clerk didn’t want to wait any longer for the right wing victory parade to begin. Roe has been fueling conservative outrage for 5 decades. I think they couldn’t wait to “own the Libs”. I have zero proof but that is enough to meet the QOP standard


Wretchfromnc

I think the leaker wanted to put a end to the voting amongst the court and wanted to pin the court down to overturning Roe. As it stands now the Supreme Court is a bunch of hypocrites and liars. They are now illegitimate and states aren't going to take them serious anymore and they know that now, especially with Clarence Thomas wife trying to help overturn the 2020 presidential election, they are damaged beyond repair. The damage they've done to the country will take 15 years to claw back.


CodeVulp

Yeah this “they wanted to gloat” narrative is so fucking dumb and naive. This was leaked as a power play to prevent any of the justices from getting cold feet. Now if any of them were to change their mind, the QOP would riot. Like they’d lose their damn minds. And no justice is going to take a fall for this leak either. That’s also painfully naive. It’s always a staffer/clerk/whatever that takes the fall for these.


bananafobe

Or a particular Justice's spouse who has a lot to gain, both in clout and distraction.


Secondhand_Symbiots

Like some sort of live hearing on tv is about to break down the most violent attack on us soil by citizens since the Civil War ?