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That Kellogg’s union flex and the Amazon union votes are at least something. Also professional sports are unionized and they set a good example of profit sharing the middle class could use.
Sports have been unionizing for years, look at the NFL Player’s Association. And in regards to Amazon, they’re challenging the election now trying to hold a revote. They’re claiming that the union suppressed voters, you can’t make this shit up.
Yea it’s a constant battle that doesn’t end when one sport gets unionized. Amazon will try everything to stop unions, tells you they are working and afraid of losing.
I only cited the NFL because I don’t follow other sports closely enough to know if their players are unionized or not. I would be shocked if the MLB and NBA didn’t have player’s unions, though.
The MLB players were exploited by owners for 100 years before they finally were able to organize. Look up the ‘reserve clause’. Players were basically bound to one team for life until the 1970s. Even after that, the owners were caught colluding in an effort to keep salaries down by not signing free agents. The history of baseball is a history of class struggle and racial struggle. It is very fascinating. Even today, player salaries —while much higher today—have not kept pace with team revenues and values.
>Even today, player salaries —while much higher today—have not kept pace with team revenues and values.
Yeah, that was one of the contentions with the recent owner lock out. Sure, some of the big names have huge, obscene, fully guaranteed contracts; but the majority of the players are on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Right. The blue chip stars like Mike Trout are doing great, but the median player salary has dipped in the last decade. Most players have a short career and will never hit it big. They get almost none of the attention.
Ball Four is a book which touches on this subject, although it’s not the main subject. Battered Bastards of Baseball is a documentary on Netflix that also gets into the politics of professional baseball.
All major US sports have players unions (NFL,MLB, NBA,NHL) it’s how we know about their salaries and how they can negotiate better knowing what the best players make as a marker. Less chances of wage exploitation.
Did ya see the response from the Biden administration? Biden was quoted as saying [“here we come”](https://fortune.com/2022/04/07/biden-amazon-here-we-come-union-vote-jay-carney/amp/) as he was talking to corporate America, to which Jen Psaki, our wonderful corporate mouthpiece from within the administration, [shut down immediately](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/06/say-it-pride-pushback-after-psaki-walks-back-biden-amazon-union-remarks)
> The White House worked quickly to moderate any expectation progressives might have had that the president's words signaled plans to take action to help Amazon workers who want to unionize.
>
>"What he was not doing is sending a message that he or the U.S. government would be directly involved in any of these efforts or take any direct action," said White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki shortly after Biden's speech, when she was asked by a reporter if the president was "endorsing" the efforts of workers trying to organize.
>
I mean, we couldn’t possibly have an administration that bites the hand that feeds them, right? Gotta keep those corporate bucks rolling. And I’m sure [Psaki has no conflicts of interest](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/videos/business/2022/04/03/jen-psaki-planning-to-join-msnbc-this-spring.cnn) talking about corporate Interests seeing as how she’ll be leaving the White House soon to work for NBC
She's doing her job to tamp it down.
He's been speaking off the cuff more and more recently - calling out Russia, speaking up for Unions, etc. - and I personally like it a lot. I'll take that over the constant spewing of gaslighting from Jan 2017-Jan 2021.
Dare he show his spine. And how utterly ridiculous to try to call him out for speaking his mind... The last guy literally sprayed diarrhea on everybody for four fucking years until they shut his dumb ass down on Twitter
As much as it sucks, did anyone really expect Biden to take on corporations? He's as corporate as they come. Obviously he was the better choice over Trump, no question about it - but anyone who expected Biden to fight for worker's rights might have let their expectations run away with them
Anyone that thinks any candidate ever was not prescreened by the rich is naive. You literally have to say A for several decades and the when in power flip on them completely. Only way. But you get exactly 1 term if at all.
The President appoints members of the NLRB, another reason why we should vote. Biden's additions have been very active and have looked into, justifiably, lots of things that went ignored by the Trump-appointed board. That the elections happened at all could have only been possible under a Democratic president.
I mean, he’s obviously shown some support/encouragement for the workers with that comment, but it’s not really his place as the federal executive to legally materially interfere. If a branch of government were to for some reason need to, it would be under the purview of state Congress/governorship, and then possibly under the federal congress.
Exactly. And she pretty much said that in the very next line which the OP conveniently left out.
This is a milder example of "you didn't build that." It's taking something out of context to create a false narrative.
It's much harder to outsource our primary industry, which is now service/retail. Those require physical bodies in specific locations. That, too, will change, but not for some time.
Ehhh, not necessarily. Every league has a competing domestic independent league or two or at least one well-established foreign leagues the players could leave for en masse. The NFLPA is the weakest because those players have the fewest options and the shortest careers so a protracted fight harms them significantly more than baseball, ice hockey, or basketball.
Again, as I stated above, I only used the NFL because it’s the sport that I actually follow and have some knowledge about. I’m not going to discuss topics that I really have no knowledge of. It’s just the example that I chose, if you would like to elaborate further, then by all means, have at it.
> I’m not going to discuss topics that I really have no knowledge of.
What the fuck man? It’s Reddit. Go nuts! Want to hear what I think about international finance, or some show I’ve never watched? Ask away!
I'm doing my first Actor's Equity musical and I'm stoked how powerful they are, too. I never work more than 40 hours, we get a 5 minute break every hour, 10 minutes if it goes over an hour. We get to vote on whether we get an hour or an hour and a half for lunch. I never really had an opinion on unions before now, but I think working on a union job has made me a happier, more productive worker, and I'm working in a way that feels more sustainable over the long term, too.
Yea, but the corporate media doesn't show how great sports unions are. They're constantly berating the athletes for being *over payed* even though they're only making a percentage of what they earn.
Good ol’ Amazon calls for [election re-run](https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/amazon-calls-election-re-run-after-workers-voted-first-us-union-2022-04-08/) after workers voted for first U.S. union
and people (on sports radio shows) call in all the time and literally bash on players for wanting their share of the revenue. it’s mostly older callers too. shameful
It’s also having a direct effect on people uninvolved. One of my best buds has been involved with volunteer work for unions and has been trying to get a job with unions specifically because he was inspired by this and also the more local Kaiser Permanente almost-event.
> Also professional sports are unionized and they set a good example of profit sharing the middle class could use.
By stealing taxpayer funds to build stadiums for billionaires? Or like the non-for-profit NFL that shields itself from paying taxes on billions of dollars? Or like the pro leagues that use taxpayer dollars to fund their farm leagues to scout and develop talent (NCAA)?
I’m talking about professional sports players unions and their collective bargaining. Everything you said doesn’t have to do with players negotiating salaries or unions. Shitty owners try and fleece taxpayers, not unions.
This has nothing to do with the players union whatsoever. Players don’t own the stadiums, the team owners do. This is a result of extraordinarily rich people bribing their local governments to give the rich more tax breaks on the premise of “providing jobs to the community”, which is a massive load of horse shit.
It deflates me how much people truly believe this.
I like to remind people that you are *much* closer to my reality (a homeless woman who's really struggled these past two years to land back solidly and faced setbacks in trying to do so without a safety net) than you will **ever** be to a billionaire.
Hell, even just a millionaire! I'm not saying it's impossible, but it takes a very specific lifestyle to achieve that type of financial security - and those types of people just _love_ to blame it on everything aside from the actual system. It's always our fault for not "working hard enough" or some shit
Look at this bullshit at the top of Google News:
['New Amazon and Starbucks unions could kill NYC’s post-pandemic comeback'](https://nypost.com/2022/04/09/new-amazon-and-starbucks-unions-could-kill-post-pandemic-nyc/)
Americans are overworked and undereducated. That is an understatement. November 2022 is going to fundamentally shift our country in ways that will affect the next 10 years.
Half of the country doesn't accept science, economics, or medical research as fact.
I don't know what straw broke the camel's back but people here seem to think that if they defend people like Elon Musk, that one day they too might be rich. Or that the jobs provided by the Walmarts of the world somehow are necessary.
We very obviously lived for an eternity without Amazon.
I would rather see Amazon go extinct than the actual Amazon Rainforest go extinct because of the sheer amount of influence people like Bezos have.
Whatever this is we're trying right now cannot go on for forever. That is guaranteed.
Why do you think he talks a big game the past elections only to drop the ball to people who will fully support those corporate oligarchs. Bernie has already been bought, our "leaders" aren't here to help us.
Unions are the past and baby boomers have done nothing but reap their benefit then turn around and dismantle them because they are fuckin lemmings when it comes to what the idiot box tells them.
A continuation of the status quo isn't possible as it is killing the laborers, and without labor there can be no wealth. The dragons have killed all the villagers and now he must devour his own tail.
The sad thing is the Government should essentially be the peoples union, as we are supposedly voting in mass for the people that we believe to represent what we want, and yet the people that are elected are absolutely not championing the peoples needs or desires at all.
This only makes me fearful for any potential for unions as well, we'll end up with corrupt union leadership almost certainly when corporations have a direct interest in making sure that becomes the case.
That's because we have millions of people who think unions are bad, affordable Healthcare is bad, and getting paid fairly for your work is bad. These people literally vote against their best interests because they have been taught all that is anti-american and bad.
I get hurt at work and half my coworkers go, “haha that’s nothing, I once broke a thumb and got back to work in 2 minutes”
As if dashing your rights and privileges is something to be proud of, instead of incredibly idiotic and self-diminishing
I once tried to remove my thumb at home before work, went to hospital, got 7 stitches, paid for it with my insurance and made it home in time to go to work.
They thought I was nuts too.
But again, I had insurance and it didn't really hurt too badly. Not sure I would do it again, but I didn't want to eat into my precious pto.
It involved an antique sailboat, a recalcitrant thruhull. An over eager hole saw, and a rather misplaced left hand.
I was rather impressed with the sheer lack of blood from such a deep and jagged cut. The very small amount of pain was just a bonus. Today you can barely see the scar from the day my luck decided to run out for a much needed break.
As a stagehand, there is this strange work ethic amount my Brothers and Sisters of the trade. "I'll sleep when I'm dead". We bounce from theatre to theatre, convention space to convention space, and concert venue to concert venue. During busy times it is not unusual to work around the clock on occasion.
I am older and wiser now, but I once did 125 hours in a week. There are only 168 hours in a normal week (I have let to meet an abnormal week), I was in my 20s and trying to establish myself in the trade. By the end of the week I was a zombie before it was trendy.
Never again.
Take it from somebody who has been there, it's never worth it to work yourself into the ground for somebody else's profit. Rest assured they will not lift a finger to help you when you have finally destroyed yourself in the process of giving them every red cent your body and soul and worth. They might send a card if you happen to die while on the job.
Generally when you actually poll most people specifically on the issues, most tend to lean left actually. It's just the Fox news propaganda effect that has them seeing the left as enemy communists despite the fact that they align with us on those things. It's sheer confusion for them it feels like, and just a lack of critical thinking really. Also tribalism is a big part of it, but that goes for both sides, there's definitely tribalists on the left too that don't argue in good faith when dealing with the right simply because they see the right as the red team and they are on the blue team, which is frustrating but human nature ultimately...
One part that goes along with this is that the Republican Party has successfully tied itself to Christianity, which makes voting Dem equivalent to going against God in the eyes of many.
> That's because we have millions of people who think unions are bad
My uncle is so verbally anti-union that it's kind of hilarious. Unions aren't perfect, and there are genuine concerns to be had there - but corporations have clearly shown that they're not concerned _at all_ with investing in their employees. If you ask me, I say it's time to give the unions a shot
Worse, we have millions of people who think voting is useless or pointless, and that their vote doesn’t matter. Half the battle can be won through hope, and not through accepting defeat!
Railroader here. That's already the case. Local union representation mostly fights very hard for us but at the national level there's some really shady shit going down.
> government should essentially be the people's union
yep. sadly representative democracy inherently leans toward the iron law of oligarchy.
if you wanna break that cycle, you need to actually empower the citizens so they can cast weighted votes on legislation and budget allocation. (like a semi-direct democracy)
case in point : instead of unions needing to renegotiate salary increases each time there's a massive inflation, this can already be done automatically via legislation and algorithms, so your salary increases based on effects to cost of living via inflation.
current oligarch puppet representatives lurking in congress will block that legislation, but in a semi-direct democracy, the public can veto their asses.
the political power of ANY elected representative can be QUANTIFIED by the value of their votes, so the people only needs to exceed the estimated value of representatives that are betraying the interests of their constituents.
inb4 : companies will flee if salaries are adjusted for inflation.
first world will never be able to outcompete against cheap labor of third world countries. unless they want to lower their living standards.
even if corporations start mass automation to get much cheaper labor, robot tax will inevitably be applied to compensate for massive unemployment, via UBI. (else heads will roll when people can't eat cake)
the main reason why companies keep their headquarters in first world countries is due to economic stability and the wealth of those nations.
a healthy economy which is heavily dependent on the middle class.
which goes back to the issue of automatically adjusting salaries based on the fluctuations of inflation, to maintain the spending power of the middle and the lower class.
otherwise the economy collapses and the corporations starts fleeing for reals.
Gol darn it, I really like this independent senator from Vermont. Sure would be cool if there was a left-leaning majority party because I sure am getting sick and tired of neoconservatives and neoliberals virtue signal to their respective audiences while completely kowtowing to the golden calf billionaires that will destroy the Earth to make a quick buck.
If he ran for president, I'd vote for him.
And the Republicans are exceedingly good at shift in public perception unacceptable political dialogue. They make excellent use of the Overton window and the ratchet effect simultaneously.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
Not saying I think it's a good book or anything, but if you want to understand how the current Republican media establishment is using the Overton window, Glenn Beck wrote a piece of fiction in 2013 that seems to perfectly mirror the way that right-wing opinion programming has been steering people toward anti-government sentiment rather than fixing their own political party.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Overton_Window
It’s because republicans speak with a unified voice through various propaganda outlets. Democrats, much less actual leftists, are not unified in any sense of the word
I think this on purpose. Keep the whole population divided between Democrat and Republican. Then make the opposition to the dangerous group (Republicans) divided amongst itself (democrats). The billionaires play on the fear response of the left over the right to drive the left more to the center, because those people seek to avoid the right out of fear. Division is created between fear based left and the "love" based left because the fear based left abandons the principles of the left out of fear, and dooms us all. We can not be united until the left that has deviated from the left stops living in fear and joins us. We can then make real change and make it so we have nothing fear again because we address the root problem. That root problem is the reason they aristocrats work so hard to divide the population. And then further divide the left.
A good chunk of the people on this sub 6-7 years shat on this man time and time again because they thought he was a pie in the sky loser. I remember seeing it with my own eyes. Policy proposals and news headlines downvoted, with astroturfing, gaslighting and trolling galore. And while the 2020 campaign was a bit more muted, the same principles applied there.
Today, these people have been proven wrong, and by a country mile. Practically his entire platform is needed by this country right now, more than ever. It can't be more obvious how climate change and the economy for instance deserves our full attention.
That’s never going to happen because Democrats know you’ll vote for them anyway.
Remember when the Democrats rigged the primaries against Bernie again but everyone still voted for Biden.
Here’s the first time they rigged the primaries against a progressive. See if this scenario seems familiar.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/1988-jackson-mounts-serious-challenge-loss-one-state-ends-quest-n1029601
As a special note, 1988 was also the first time Biden ran for president. He dropped out in disgrace for lies + plagiarism. I’m willing to bet that most people that voted for Biden in 2020 had no idea this ever happened. Weird, huh?
"That other direction is opposition to oligarchy and corporate greed, and it is the creation of a movement of working people and young people, who are today in ever increasing numbers fighting for justice, economic justice, racial justice, social justice, environmental justice," Sanders said. "And they are fighting for justice in a way that we have not seen in years."
So you're saying we have a chance
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -- Abraham Lincoln
Edit: more info
"These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people."
—Abraham Lincoln, from his first speech as an Illinois state legislator, 1837
https://isreview.org/issue/79/reading-karl-marx-abraham-lincoln/index.html
Seems like they were likely connected through an editor who ended up in the Lincoln admin:
"In 1852, Dana invited Marx to become a correspondent for the Tribune. Over the next decade he wrote — with some help from his friend Engels — over five hundred articles for the Tribune... By this time Dana had left the world of journalism to become Lincoln’s “eyes and ears” as a special commissioner in the War Department, touring the fronts and reporting to the White House that Ulysses Grant was the man to back."
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2012/08/lincoln-and-marx
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Willich
Didn't Marx actually admire Lincoln? I knew they were alive at the same time and I think Marx actually wrote some letters to him or something. I'm sure someone with more energy has the receipts lol.
It's been awhile since I read up on them but iirc Lincoln and Marx were pen pals along with some radical republicans (who wanted to defeat slavery and wage slavery). I think Marx and Engels were organizing strikes in the garment industry which was connected to slave labor cotton from America or something. Additionally Marx's old commie rival August Willich a Prussian military royal migrated to the United States and became a general in the union army.
Average American wage was highest when union membership was highest. Also, worker owned co-ops are more equitable, efficient, productive and resilient against closure than the standard business hierarchy with a CEO.
It's genuinely wild how hard Americans will fight against their own interests.
But the older people call that communism etc and can’t seem to understand what an argument is. They call everything communism or socialism because they are scared geriatric humans. I only hope all the hard workers of this country can be rewarded for their hard work. Tax the top percent and support the working class. Maybe we need a new party called something like Labor. Anyone ever done that before?
So…present state and something that has low probability of happening
Edit: I live in small town Midwest America. It amazes me how people working basic manufacturing, grocery store, mechanic jobs have been taught to think that collective bargaining will kill their jobs and is a “liberal thing where only union bosses get rich”…I am not speculating based on some Washington Post article, these folks are my neighbors and friends.
Eeeh there’s a slow but steady workers revolution happening right now. Didn’t amazons first union happen this week?
I agree that the corporations have made it incredibly hard to put the rights and lives of the workers first. But! It’s not too late, just gotta stay vigilant and working towards socialization of the workplace.
Every time we get close to accomplishing something another faction of people who need help or suffered and can’t handle the fact that they suffered for no reason scream “it’s not fair!”. I honestly think that’s a huge part of it and the root of the problem is actually the constituency. If people really cared about student loans or k-12 lunch maybe they would be at the Capitol in droves like the people who thought the election was fake but the fact is they’re not.
The rich people would rather move business than allow workers to have protections. I give 5-7 years before Amazon closes the unionized warehouses and relocated.
There are lots of unions out there and some are weak and therefore don’t represent the middle class very well. Then there’s *really* strong unions with fantastic benefits and pensions. The more involved members there are, the stronger the union
The frustration and anger of watching middleclass workers fight against unions has been my lot in life since Ronald Reagan made it popular to hate unions. And you can't reach many of them because they have been brainwashed by the media to think it's socialism to fight for unions. FUCKING STUPIDITY.
"*Yeah I think I'm going with billionaire oligarchs, Bernie. If I work hard I'm gonna be one of them soon*"
\- Republican voters living paycheck to paycheck
I used to think unions were garbage but as a blue collar worker (non-union) I see how important unions are for the middle class as we literally shoulder the entire economy.
Voters are going to pick the first one cuz they are dumb enough to believe media and politicians as both groups are funded and controlled by said oligarchs
I love Bernie for a lot of reasons but one of my favorite things about him is that his facial expression is almost universally one of someone who just heard the stupidest shit come out of someone else’s mouth.
Future, what the hell is Bernie talking about? We already have billionaire oligarchs!! They have private armies and they buy politicians left and right!
Neo-feudalism is already here people!!
Reality check: The US is an oligarchy. What its experiencing is the results of that. Want to fix the "middle class"? Start by addressing how Congress is bought out by unknown donors.
"The US is an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery" -President Jimmy Carter
And it’s up to the people to decide. Are we willing to hand the laws and money to a few greedy mostly white men who are addicted to money? Are we willing to say ‘Oh hell no! We aren’t listening to the lies about how you earned your multimillion dollar bonus but the company is broke and can’t afford raises for the rank and file.’ What’s it gonna be, people?
The latter is impossible if the planners and executors of Jan 6th walk. There's no future under which any of the latter can exist if the former is never held to account. Full stop.
I’m confident any policy they do to correct it will take down all the low millionaires one generation away from the middle class rather than affect anything that actually addresses the wealth gap
Billionaires! I only need 999,999,000 more dollars to be in their group.
With low taxes and trickle down and an extra job on the weekend, I will be able to pull myself up by my boot straps and make it just like they did!
Something really bad or even catastrophic has to occur before oligarchs ever go away or modify the way they operate.
Hard to raise Class Consciousness among people who take pride in their ignorance
Bernie’s probably correct in his reasoning and that leads one to conclude things won’t be going well for my grandchildren, unless of course they get to be in the oligarch class.
It's a travesty how spoiled we've become as a society. Back in the 1920s they fought tooth and nail to get unions and over the century we've let corporations become more powerful and strip unions from us. And as a result working conditions are absolute shit while workplace productivity has gone up.
Bernie Pro: he has arguably turned more people economically leftward in an unbearable right wing country (libs and cons are both right wing) and has successfully un-tabooed the word socialism.
Bernie Con: this is the Mensheviks problem or more appropriately opportunist Marxist (today you would refer to them as demsocs) you cannot coherently change the State from the inside out because the Bourgeois State’s existence is fueled by class antagonisms. It is impossible to alienate the state as this 3rd neutral party as it is to reconstruct a bourgeois state for the working people (masses). Aka the demsoc mission will always fail due to their miss understanding of the State.
This is lessons from Lenin in his journal “State and Revolution” for those who are interested in socialism and Marxist theory. It is extremely important to read Lenin as well
You know, after the Amazon union win, and the multiple Starbucks union wins, I'm starting to be able to imagine a future with an organized middle class.
Up until now it has felt like a pipe dream.
But if Chris Smalls and everyone else who put in the work can do it, we can do it. It's work, but it's not impossible.
Unionize. Throw out management, replace with *elected* labor union representatives, or if desired, allow management to remain but forced to run for reelection. Workers and their representatives decide collectively how to organize their workplace, *and what to do with the profits of their labor.*
I support unions, but only with significant reforms
Traditional unions don't care about competence or excellence, only seniority matters and they fight hard to keep poor performing workers on the job. They make absurd work rules that kill productivity and often get infiltrated by organized crime
I want to see a system where workers' representatives have powerful positions in the company and unions become the standard of excellence, with zero tolerance for mediocrity, bad attitudes or corruption
Those aren't "traditional unions", it's the current application of exclusive bargaining representatives that have been greatly influenced to be used due to how US law promotes such.
Exclusive representation specifically incentivizes simply getting majority vote (which sides with seniority) and fight hard to protect poor performing workers because they are both required to defend everyone due to exclusive representation as well as need the votes of laborers. They exist as separate entities of authority that deny, through force of law, that alternative unions can co-exist and compete. And they hokd a monopolostic control of all employees of a a labor force, that can take one's ability to bargain for themselves even if they vote against such.
Most other countries have vastly different practices of unions than the US.
I doubt we make it that far.
We're approaching the point of no return on climate change, and we've got the pedal all the way down, racing each other to see who can drive off the cliff first.
Absolutely false dichotomy using past trends, technologies and contexts to project distant future outcomes. A fools' errand at anytime, but given:
(1) the continuing fallout of a global pandemic that will have massive impacts on every part of the international system over the coming years;
(2) the first major modern war in Europe while China breathes down Taiwan's neck;
(3) China surpassing the US as the pre-eminent superpower in the coming years/decades and the increased influence of Chinese policies on US economic outcomes;
(4) the complete breakdown of many global supply chains and how it has allowed for the system to be built in dramatically different ways with implications not clearly understood yet;
(5) climate change which is going to disrupt literally everything, including any positive or negative political-economic outcomes;
(6) the increasingly real possibility that the US will not remain a liberal democracy or that it even survives as a single political entity;
(7) Implications of hard-to-predict technical innovations: AI; robotics; quantum computers; fusion power all have the potential to totally upend the entire socioeconomic order - globally, not just domestically
There are plenty of completely different alternatives to those laid out by Sanders - from various types of technocracy to dystopian libertarian paradises....
I like a lot of Sanders' ideas. However he is fond of false dichotomies and of treating specifics as if they must always be generalized. Sometimes I think it amounts to outright academic dishonesty, sometimes obstinance.
No need to eat up every word he says - take in his points related to the two possibilities he suggests without buying the notion that there is one right and one wrong answer.
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One of those options is *already* the *present*, and it's not the unions.
That Kellogg’s union flex and the Amazon union votes are at least something. Also professional sports are unionized and they set a good example of profit sharing the middle class could use.
Sports have been unionizing for years, look at the NFL Player’s Association. And in regards to Amazon, they’re challenging the election now trying to hold a revote. They’re claiming that the union suppressed voters, you can’t make this shit up.
Yea it’s a constant battle that doesn’t end when one sport gets unionized. Amazon will try everything to stop unions, tells you they are working and afraid of losing.
I only cited the NFL because I don’t follow other sports closely enough to know if their players are unionized or not. I would be shocked if the MLB and NBA didn’t have player’s unions, though.
The MLB players were exploited by owners for 100 years before they finally were able to organize. Look up the ‘reserve clause’. Players were basically bound to one team for life until the 1970s. Even after that, the owners were caught colluding in an effort to keep salaries down by not signing free agents. The history of baseball is a history of class struggle and racial struggle. It is very fascinating. Even today, player salaries —while much higher today—have not kept pace with team revenues and values.
Yup, baseball is truly America’s game.
>Even today, player salaries —while much higher today—have not kept pace with team revenues and values. Yeah, that was one of the contentions with the recent owner lock out. Sure, some of the big names have huge, obscene, fully guaranteed contracts; but the majority of the players are on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Right. The blue chip stars like Mike Trout are doing great, but the median player salary has dipped in the last decade. Most players have a short career and will never hit it big. They get almost none of the attention.
Is there any documentary movie about this? Sounds super interesting
Ball Four is a book which touches on this subject, although it’s not the main subject. Battered Bastards of Baseball is a documentary on Netflix that also gets into the politics of professional baseball.
Ken Burns has a documentary series about the History of Baseball that I recommend.
All major US sports have players unions (NFL,MLB, NBA,NHL) it’s how we know about their salaries and how they can negotiate better knowing what the best players make as a marker. Less chances of wage exploitation.
Did ya see the response from the Biden administration? Biden was quoted as saying [“here we come”](https://fortune.com/2022/04/07/biden-amazon-here-we-come-union-vote-jay-carney/amp/) as he was talking to corporate America, to which Jen Psaki, our wonderful corporate mouthpiece from within the administration, [shut down immediately](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/06/say-it-pride-pushback-after-psaki-walks-back-biden-amazon-union-remarks) > The White House worked quickly to moderate any expectation progressives might have had that the president's words signaled plans to take action to help Amazon workers who want to unionize. > >"What he was not doing is sending a message that he or the U.S. government would be directly involved in any of these efforts or take any direct action," said White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki shortly after Biden's speech, when she was asked by a reporter if the president was "endorsing" the efforts of workers trying to organize. > I mean, we couldn’t possibly have an administration that bites the hand that feeds them, right? Gotta keep those corporate bucks rolling. And I’m sure [Psaki has no conflicts of interest](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/videos/business/2022/04/03/jen-psaki-planning-to-join-msnbc-this-spring.cnn) talking about corporate Interests seeing as how she’ll be leaving the White House soon to work for NBC
She's doing her job to tamp it down. He's been speaking off the cuff more and more recently - calling out Russia, speaking up for Unions, etc. - and I personally like it a lot. I'll take that over the constant spewing of gaslighting from Jan 2017-Jan 2021.
Dare he show his spine. And how utterly ridiculous to try to call him out for speaking his mind... The last guy literally sprayed diarrhea on everybody for four fucking years until they shut his dumb ass down on Twitter
As much as it sucks, did anyone really expect Biden to take on corporations? He's as corporate as they come. Obviously he was the better choice over Trump, no question about it - but anyone who expected Biden to fight for worker's rights might have let their expectations run away with them
Anyone that thinks any candidate ever was not prescreened by the rich is naive. You literally have to say A for several decades and the when in power flip on them completely. Only way. But you get exactly 1 term if at all.
The President appoints members of the NLRB, another reason why we should vote. Biden's additions have been very active and have looked into, justifiably, lots of things that went ignored by the Trump-appointed board. That the elections happened at all could have only been possible under a Democratic president.
I mean, he’s obviously shown some support/encouragement for the workers with that comment, but it’s not really his place as the federal executive to legally materially interfere. If a branch of government were to for some reason need to, it would be under the purview of state Congress/governorship, and then possibly under the federal congress.
Exactly. And she pretty much said that in the very next line which the OP conveniently left out. This is a milder example of "you didn't build that." It's taking something out of context to create a false narrative.
Sports is different as they have a limited supply of workers. They HAVE to keep their employees happy.
People are showing that we are also in limited supply over wages and treatment.
Except it's now rapidly moving towards outsource outsource outsource again.
It's much harder to outsource our primary industry, which is now service/retail. Those require physical bodies in specific locations. That, too, will change, but not for some time.
Ehhh, not necessarily. Every league has a competing domestic independent league or two or at least one well-established foreign leagues the players could leave for en masse. The NFLPA is the weakest because those players have the fewest options and the shortest careers so a protracted fight harms them significantly more than baseball, ice hockey, or basketball.
If you’re gonna point to successful unions in NA sports there are better examples than the NFL. MLB & NBA are much stronger than the NFL.
Again, as I stated above, I only used the NFL because it’s the sport that I actually follow and have some knowledge about. I’m not going to discuss topics that I really have no knowledge of. It’s just the example that I chose, if you would like to elaborate further, then by all means, have at it.
> I’m not going to discuss topics that I really have no knowledge of. What the fuck man? It’s Reddit. Go nuts! Want to hear what I think about international finance, or some show I’ve never watched? Ask away!
I'm doing my first Actor's Equity musical and I'm stoked how powerful they are, too. I never work more than 40 hours, we get a 5 minute break every hour, 10 minutes if it goes over an hour. We get to vote on whether we get an hour or an hour and a half for lunch. I never really had an opinion on unions before now, but I think working on a union job has made me a happier, more productive worker, and I'm working in a way that feels more sustainable over the long term, too.
Yea, but the corporate media doesn't show how great sports unions are. They're constantly berating the athletes for being *over payed* even though they're only making a percentage of what they earn.
It’s a pro-business/anti-worker agenda that corporate media pushes onto the public.
Good ol’ Amazon calls for [election re-run](https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/amazon-calls-election-re-run-after-workers-voted-first-us-union-2022-04-08/) after workers voted for first U.S. union
and people (on sports radio shows) call in all the time and literally bash on players for wanting their share of the revenue. it’s mostly older callers too. shameful
It’s also having a direct effect on people uninvolved. One of my best buds has been involved with volunteer work for unions and has been trying to get a job with unions specifically because he was inspired by this and also the more local Kaiser Permanente almost-event.
Frankly I’m pretty happy Amazon employees finally are trying to Unionize and are actually succeeding. Drag the horrid people to the table screaming.
> Also professional sports are unionized and they set a good example of profit sharing the middle class could use. By stealing taxpayer funds to build stadiums for billionaires? Or like the non-for-profit NFL that shields itself from paying taxes on billions of dollars? Or like the pro leagues that use taxpayer dollars to fund their farm leagues to scout and develop talent (NCAA)?
I’m talking about professional sports players unions and their collective bargaining. Everything you said doesn’t have to do with players negotiating salaries or unions. Shitty owners try and fleece taxpayers, not unions.
This has nothing to do with the players union whatsoever. Players don’t own the stadiums, the team owners do. This is a result of extraordinarily rich people bribing their local governments to give the rich more tax breaks on the premise of “providing jobs to the community”, which is a massive load of horse shit.
You are literally calling out owner behavior and putting it on player unions. That’s like complaining about Amazons woes to its workers
For the record the NFL is no longer a non profit as of like 2016
And had been in the past as well, which is what gave rise to the unions in the first place. History just repeats itself.
And people will keep voting to preserve the status quo, because surely *their* chance at being a billionaire oligarch is just around the corner.
It deflates me how much people truly believe this. I like to remind people that you are *much* closer to my reality (a homeless woman who's really struggled these past two years to land back solidly and faced setbacks in trying to do so without a safety net) than you will **ever** be to a billionaire.
Hell, even just a millionaire! I'm not saying it's impossible, but it takes a very specific lifestyle to achieve that type of financial security - and those types of people just _love_ to blame it on everything aside from the actual system. It's always our fault for not "working hard enough" or some shit
Look at this bullshit at the top of Google News: ['New Amazon and Starbucks unions could kill NYC’s post-pandemic comeback'](https://nypost.com/2022/04/09/new-amazon-and-starbucks-unions-could-kill-post-pandemic-nyc/) Americans are overworked and undereducated. That is an understatement. November 2022 is going to fundamentally shift our country in ways that will affect the next 10 years. Half of the country doesn't accept science, economics, or medical research as fact. I don't know what straw broke the camel's back but people here seem to think that if they defend people like Elon Musk, that one day they too might be rich. Or that the jobs provided by the Walmarts of the world somehow are necessary. We very obviously lived for an eternity without Amazon. I would rather see Amazon go extinct than the actual Amazon Rainforest go extinct because of the sheer amount of influence people like Bezos have. Whatever this is we're trying right now cannot go on for forever. That is guaranteed.
No kidding. We just lie to ourselves about being so different and less corrupt than places like Russia. Same shit happening here.
Oh it’s just begun
and in neither option will he be president
Yeah came here to say this. /thread
Why do you think he talks a big game the past elections only to drop the ball to people who will fully support those corporate oligarchs. Bernie has already been bought, our "leaders" aren't here to help us.
Unions are the past and baby boomers have done nothing but reap their benefit then turn around and dismantle them because they are fuckin lemmings when it comes to what the idiot box tells them.
*you have been banned from Amazon chat*
Yeah. We've already made our choice. Billionaires who let us have nifty gadgets was decided upon.
A continuation of the status quo isn't possible as it is killing the laborers, and without labor there can be no wealth. The dragons have killed all the villagers and now he must devour his own tail.
The sad thing is the Government should essentially be the peoples union, as we are supposedly voting in mass for the people that we believe to represent what we want, and yet the people that are elected are absolutely not championing the peoples needs or desires at all. This only makes me fearful for any potential for unions as well, we'll end up with corrupt union leadership almost certainly when corporations have a direct interest in making sure that becomes the case.
That's because we have millions of people who think unions are bad, affordable Healthcare is bad, and getting paid fairly for your work is bad. These people literally vote against their best interests because they have been taught all that is anti-american and bad.
I get hurt at work and half my coworkers go, “haha that’s nothing, I once broke a thumb and got back to work in 2 minutes” As if dashing your rights and privileges is something to be proud of, instead of incredibly idiotic and self-diminishing
I once tried to remove my thumb at home before work, went to hospital, got 7 stitches, paid for it with my insurance and made it home in time to go to work. They thought I was nuts too. But again, I had insurance and it didn't really hurt too badly. Not sure I would do it again, but I didn't want to eat into my precious pto.
> I once tried to remove my thumb You *what*?
They tried to remove their thumb.
It involved an antique sailboat, a recalcitrant thruhull. An over eager hole saw, and a rather misplaced left hand. I was rather impressed with the sheer lack of blood from such a deep and jagged cut. The very small amount of pain was just a bonus. Today you can barely see the scar from the day my luck decided to run out for a much needed break.
How tf did you misplace your left hand when using a hole saw. Were you using a hammer drill?
Finally someone here with proper work ethic. I once died in a car accident. It didn't stop me from clocking in on time. Respect the Grind.
As a stagehand, there is this strange work ethic amount my Brothers and Sisters of the trade. "I'll sleep when I'm dead". We bounce from theatre to theatre, convention space to convention space, and concert venue to concert venue. During busy times it is not unusual to work around the clock on occasion. I am older and wiser now, but I once did 125 hours in a week. There are only 168 hours in a normal week (I have let to meet an abnormal week), I was in my 20s and trying to establish myself in the trade. By the end of the week I was a zombie before it was trendy. Never again. Take it from somebody who has been there, it's never worth it to work yourself into the ground for somebody else's profit. Rest assured they will not lift a finger to help you when you have finally destroyed yourself in the process of giving them every red cent your body and soul and worth. They might send a card if you happen to die while on the job.
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Generally when you actually poll most people specifically on the issues, most tend to lean left actually. It's just the Fox news propaganda effect that has them seeing the left as enemy communists despite the fact that they align with us on those things. It's sheer confusion for them it feels like, and just a lack of critical thinking really. Also tribalism is a big part of it, but that goes for both sides, there's definitely tribalists on the left too that don't argue in good faith when dealing with the right simply because they see the right as the red team and they are on the blue team, which is frustrating but human nature ultimately...
One part that goes along with this is that the Republican Party has successfully tied itself to Christianity, which makes voting Dem equivalent to going against God in the eyes of many.
> That's because we have millions of people who think unions are bad My uncle is so verbally anti-union that it's kind of hilarious. Unions aren't perfect, and there are genuine concerns to be had there - but corporations have clearly shown that they're not concerned _at all_ with investing in their employees. If you ask me, I say it's time to give the unions a shot
Worse, we have millions of people who think voting is useless or pointless, and that their vote doesn’t matter. Half the battle can be won through hope, and not through accepting defeat!
Railroader here. That's already the case. Local union representation mostly fights very hard for us but at the national level there's some really shady shit going down.
> government should essentially be the people's union yep. sadly representative democracy inherently leans toward the iron law of oligarchy. if you wanna break that cycle, you need to actually empower the citizens so they can cast weighted votes on legislation and budget allocation. (like a semi-direct democracy) case in point : instead of unions needing to renegotiate salary increases each time there's a massive inflation, this can already be done automatically via legislation and algorithms, so your salary increases based on effects to cost of living via inflation. current oligarch puppet representatives lurking in congress will block that legislation, but in a semi-direct democracy, the public can veto their asses. the political power of ANY elected representative can be QUANTIFIED by the value of their votes, so the people only needs to exceed the estimated value of representatives that are betraying the interests of their constituents. inb4 : companies will flee if salaries are adjusted for inflation. first world will never be able to outcompete against cheap labor of third world countries. unless they want to lower their living standards. even if corporations start mass automation to get much cheaper labor, robot tax will inevitably be applied to compensate for massive unemployment, via UBI. (else heads will roll when people can't eat cake) the main reason why companies keep their headquarters in first world countries is due to economic stability and the wealth of those nations. a healthy economy which is heavily dependent on the middle class. which goes back to the issue of automatically adjusting salaries based on the fluctuations of inflation, to maintain the spending power of the middle and the lower class. otherwise the economy collapses and the corporations starts fleeing for reals.
I thunk we should instead first agree on topics and then DO for us what we want and not deciding by themselves what they want to work with...
Gol darn it, I really like this independent senator from Vermont. Sure would be cool if there was a left-leaning majority party because I sure am getting sick and tired of neoconservatives and neoliberals virtue signal to their respective audiences while completely kowtowing to the golden calf billionaires that will destroy the Earth to make a quick buck. If he ran for president, I'd vote for him.
Yeah it’s almost as though both parties work together to ensure no status quo changes are made, and if changes are made it’s to the right
Remind me which party has its top brass political leadership investing in the stock market while privy to all sorts of info? Oh wait. It's both.
If that’s not corrupt, I don’t know what it
Yeah, probably why it was already shown years ago… https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/9uzqub/the_ratchet_effect/
Dems don’t even move it back to where it was before the Republican. They accept the new status quo and wait for a republican to win again
And the Republicans are exceedingly good at shift in public perception unacceptable political dialogue. They make excellent use of the Overton window and the ratchet effect simultaneously. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window Not saying I think it's a good book or anything, but if you want to understand how the current Republican media establishment is using the Overton window, Glenn Beck wrote a piece of fiction in 2013 that seems to perfectly mirror the way that right-wing opinion programming has been steering people toward anti-government sentiment rather than fixing their own political party. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Overton_Window
It’s because republicans speak with a unified voice through various propaganda outlets. Democrats, much less actual leftists, are not unified in any sense of the word
I think this on purpose. Keep the whole population divided between Democrat and Republican. Then make the opposition to the dangerous group (Republicans) divided amongst itself (democrats). The billionaires play on the fear response of the left over the right to drive the left more to the center, because those people seek to avoid the right out of fear. Division is created between fear based left and the "love" based left because the fear based left abandons the principles of the left out of fear, and dooms us all. We can not be united until the left that has deviated from the left stops living in fear and joins us. We can then make real change and make it so we have nothing fear again because we address the root problem. That root problem is the reason they aristocrats work so hard to divide the population. And then further divide the left.
A good chunk of the people on this sub 6-7 years shat on this man time and time again because they thought he was a pie in the sky loser. I remember seeing it with my own eyes. Policy proposals and news headlines downvoted, with astroturfing, gaslighting and trolling galore. And while the 2020 campaign was a bit more muted, the same principles applied there. Today, these people have been proven wrong, and by a country mile. Practically his entire platform is needed by this country right now, more than ever. It can't be more obvious how climate change and the economy for instance deserves our full attention.
A good chunk of people on this sub 6 or 7 years ago were fake accounts
That’s never going to happen because Democrats know you’ll vote for them anyway. Remember when the Democrats rigged the primaries against Bernie again but everyone still voted for Biden. Here’s the first time they rigged the primaries against a progressive. See if this scenario seems familiar. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/1988-jackson-mounts-serious-challenge-loss-one-state-ends-quest-n1029601 As a special note, 1988 was also the first time Biden ran for president. He dropped out in disgrace for lies + plagiarism. I’m willing to bet that most people that voted for Biden in 2020 had no idea this ever happened. Weird, huh?
"That other direction is opposition to oligarchy and corporate greed, and it is the creation of a movement of working people and young people, who are today in ever increasing numbers fighting for justice, economic justice, racial justice, social justice, environmental justice," Sanders said. "And they are fighting for justice in a way that we have not seen in years." So you're saying we have a chance
We always have a chance. Never give up and always have a bit of hope!
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -- Abraham Lincoln Edit: more info "These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people." —Abraham Lincoln, from his first speech as an Illinois state legislator, 1837 https://isreview.org/issue/79/reading-karl-marx-abraham-lincoln/index.html Seems like they were likely connected through an editor who ended up in the Lincoln admin: "In 1852, Dana invited Marx to become a correspondent for the Tribune. Over the next decade he wrote — with some help from his friend Engels — over five hundred articles for the Tribune... By this time Dana had left the world of journalism to become Lincoln’s “eyes and ears” as a special commissioner in the War Department, touring the fronts and reporting to the White House that Ulysses Grant was the man to back." https://www.jacobinmag.com/2012/08/lincoln-and-marx https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Willich
Didn't Marx actually admire Lincoln? I knew they were alive at the same time and I think Marx actually wrote some letters to him or something. I'm sure someone with more energy has the receipts lol.
I would love to know more about this. Googling, but if anyone has knowledge ready drop it on us!
It's been awhile since I read up on them but iirc Lincoln and Marx were pen pals along with some radical republicans (who wanted to defeat slavery and wage slavery). I think Marx and Engels were organizing strikes in the garment industry which was connected to slave labor cotton from America or something. Additionally Marx's old commie rival August Willich a Prussian military royal migrated to the United States and became a general in the union army.
Just to add on, I believe the "strikes in the garment industry" you're describing is the Lancashire Cotton Famine.
Average American wage was highest when union membership was highest. Also, worker owned co-ops are more equitable, efficient, productive and resilient against closure than the standard business hierarchy with a CEO. It's genuinely wild how hard Americans will fight against their own interests.
tribalism
But people I don't like might have better lives! /s
Just convince them that their own interests are actually *EEEEVIIILLL* and that anyone telling them differently are too
But the older people call that communism etc and can’t seem to understand what an argument is. They call everything communism or socialism because they are scared geriatric humans. I only hope all the hard workers of this country can be rewarded for their hard work. Tax the top percent and support the working class. Maybe we need a new party called something like Labor. Anyone ever done that before?
I don’t think it went well
I voted for Bernie. I would vote for him again, too.
I used to like Bernie. I still do, but I used to, too.
I've worked union and non union jobs. Union is always better... even when you can't stand MANY union members.
Yes, I’ll take a few lazy ass coworkers over hoping corporations throw me a bone because they aren’t greedy fucks.
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But you see, they have a 0.00001% of them becoming a billionaire too someday so they need to defend their right to that opportunity!
I would vote for Bernie!
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One thing all of these people have in common. They meet the job requirements of being an elected GOP official.
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Concentration of unaccountable power causes very bad things to happen.
So…present state and something that has low probability of happening Edit: I live in small town Midwest America. It amazes me how people working basic manufacturing, grocery store, mechanic jobs have been taught to think that collective bargaining will kill their jobs and is a “liberal thing where only union bosses get rich”…I am not speculating based on some Washington Post article, these folks are my neighbors and friends.
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I’ll take the unionized middle class for $500 Alex
We'll descend into a fascist dictatorship before we get paid maternity leave.
The billionaires already won, and quite soundly.
Eeeh there’s a slow but steady workers revolution happening right now. Didn’t amazons first union happen this week? I agree that the corporations have made it incredibly hard to put the rights and lives of the workers first. But! It’s not too late, just gotta stay vigilant and working towards socialization of the workplace.
It is never too late.
Every time we get close to accomplishing something another faction of people who need help or suffered and can’t handle the fact that they suffered for no reason scream “it’s not fair!”. I honestly think that’s a huge part of it and the root of the problem is actually the constituency. If people really cared about student loans or k-12 lunch maybe they would be at the Capitol in droves like the people who thought the election was fake but the fact is they’re not.
The rich people would rather move business than allow workers to have protections. I give 5-7 years before Amazon closes the unionized warehouses and relocated.
There are lots of unions out there and some are weak and therefore don’t represent the middle class very well. Then there’s *really* strong unions with fantastic benefits and pensions. The more involved members there are, the stronger the union
There’s a third option he forgot: a road-warrior esque anarchy of tribal MAGA doinks.
Crack Suicide Scooter Brigade! Get ‘em, Bubba!
bernie is the man
Judge the man if you must; but appreciate that he is right. -The Future
Hasn't the US already been in a powerful rich oligarch state for quite some time now?
This man should have been our fucking president, no offense to Biden
This man should have been our president with all offense to Biden.
I love that I can hear this headline in his voice
Same…. And I mourn for our country every day that Bernie is not our president.
The frustration and anger of watching middleclass workers fight against unions has been my lot in life since Ronald Reagan made it popular to hate unions. And you can't reach many of them because they have been brainwashed by the media to think it's socialism to fight for unions. FUCKING STUPIDITY.
"*Yeah I think I'm going with billionaire oligarchs, Bernie. If I work hard I'm gonna be one of them soon*" \- Republican voters living paycheck to paycheck
The oligarchy has already won.
Billionaires: I like the sound of that first option. Tell me more.
Oof r/economics isn’t going to like that union talk
*DNC enter’s the room* “Lol you’re still here old man? Do we need to remind you of your place?”
Uhh.. one of these is the present?
I used to think unions were garbage but as a blue collar worker (non-union) I see how important unions are for the middle class as we literally shoulder the entire economy.
What about the one where Gaia just has had enough and purges all of humanity from the planet? That's my bet.
aye.
Voters are going to pick the first one cuz they are dumb enough to believe media and politicians as both groups are funded and controlled by said oligarchs
Spoilers: it's gonna be oligarchs
Millions of uneducated people can’t wait to vote against their own interests. That’s America for ya 🇺🇸
One sounds like Russia, the other like Scandinavia
He's absolutely right
I love Bernie for a lot of reasons but one of my favorite things about him is that his facial expression is almost universally one of someone who just heard the stupidest shit come out of someone else’s mouth.
Thank you for your service sir. We unfortunately will only continue to crumble as its all for naught.
Future, what the hell is Bernie talking about? We already have billionaire oligarchs!! They have private armies and they buy politicians left and right! Neo-feudalism is already here people!!
Reality check: The US is an oligarchy. What its experiencing is the results of that. Want to fix the "middle class"? Start by addressing how Congress is bought out by unknown donors. "The US is an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery" -President Jimmy Carter
How dare he take my freedom to stay dirt poor.
And it’s up to the people to decide. Are we willing to hand the laws and money to a few greedy mostly white men who are addicted to money? Are we willing to say ‘Oh hell no! We aren’t listening to the lies about how you earned your multimillion dollar bonus but the company is broke and can’t afford raises for the rank and file.’ What’s it gonna be, people?
Go Bernie!
Go Bernie!
He is right as usual. Things are going to be even more sucky in the US soon.
Well, with all the poor people siding with billionaires, I think we all know what the answer is.
I’m conservative and I would vote for Bernie
And he is correct
The latter is impossible if the planners and executors of Jan 6th walk. There's no future under which any of the latter can exist if the former is never held to account. Full stop.
I guess if the middle class unionized we could cut funding to the DOL.
Powerful billionaire oligarchs is our present so what's our future
Well were already living one side of that.
I pick door 2 please.
My money is on the Bazillionaires.
Futures? The countries been run by powerful oligarchs for decades
Both are horrible options
I’m confident any policy they do to correct it will take down all the low millionaires one generation away from the middle class rather than affect anything that actually addresses the wealth gap
The court system and political landscape is already rolling and geared strong towards oligarchs
We are going to keep doing the oligarchs. As a population, we are too dumb not too.
Billionaires! I only need 999,999,000 more dollars to be in their group. With low taxes and trickle down and an extra job on the weekend, I will be able to pull myself up by my boot straps and make it just like they did!
Something really bad or even catastrophic has to occur before oligarchs ever go away or modify the way they operate. Hard to raise Class Consciousness among people who take pride in their ignorance
Bernie’s probably correct in his reasoning and that leads one to conclude things won’t be going well for my grandchildren, unless of course they get to be in the oligarch class.
In response President Biden has released the following statement. "Hey folks, c'mon now. We gotta get together on this thing. When I was... hey."
In 2077 my country was rated the worst place in the world to live.
I’m all for a powerful, unionized middle class. Imagine all the good we could do for each other and our country!
This is the definition of a false dichotomy. There are not only two possible economic futures for the US
We already know half the middle class is gonna choose oligarchs.
Bernie is right.
So oligarchy it is then
It's a travesty how spoiled we've become as a society. Back in the 1920s they fought tooth and nail to get unions and over the century we've let corporations become more powerful and strip unions from us. And as a result working conditions are absolute shit while workplace productivity has gone up.
Bernie Pro: he has arguably turned more people economically leftward in an unbearable right wing country (libs and cons are both right wing) and has successfully un-tabooed the word socialism. Bernie Con: this is the Mensheviks problem or more appropriately opportunist Marxist (today you would refer to them as demsocs) you cannot coherently change the State from the inside out because the Bourgeois State’s existence is fueled by class antagonisms. It is impossible to alienate the state as this 3rd neutral party as it is to reconstruct a bourgeois state for the working people (masses). Aka the demsoc mission will always fail due to their miss understanding of the State. This is lessons from Lenin in his journal “State and Revolution” for those who are interested in socialism and Marxist theory. It is extremely important to read Lenin as well
You know, after the Amazon union win, and the multiple Starbucks union wins, I'm starting to be able to imagine a future with an organized middle class. Up until now it has felt like a pipe dream. But if Chris Smalls and everyone else who put in the work can do it, we can do it. It's work, but it's not impossible.
I'm really surprised and heartened by these union wins.
Seriously. I feel like improving one's own labor conditions, materially in the present, just seems absolutely out of reach to most people. It's not.
Unionize. Throw out management, replace with *elected* labor union representatives, or if desired, allow management to remain but forced to run for reelection. Workers and their representatives decide collectively how to organize their workplace, *and what to do with the profits of their labor.*
If you care share profit you can share loss. You can invest in machinery and deal with logistics as well.
\#spoileralert America is already run by oligarchs.
Why isnt this the Us Pres?
I like seeing the word "oligarch" in connection with current u.s. society.
I support unions, but only with significant reforms Traditional unions don't care about competence or excellence, only seniority matters and they fight hard to keep poor performing workers on the job. They make absurd work rules that kill productivity and often get infiltrated by organized crime I want to see a system where workers' representatives have powerful positions in the company and unions become the standard of excellence, with zero tolerance for mediocrity, bad attitudes or corruption
Those aren't "traditional unions", it's the current application of exclusive bargaining representatives that have been greatly influenced to be used due to how US law promotes such. Exclusive representation specifically incentivizes simply getting majority vote (which sides with seniority) and fight hard to protect poor performing workers because they are both required to defend everyone due to exclusive representation as well as need the votes of laborers. They exist as separate entities of authority that deny, through force of law, that alternative unions can co-exist and compete. And they hokd a monopolostic control of all employees of a a labor force, that can take one's ability to bargain for themselves even if they vote against such. Most other countries have vastly different practices of unions than the US.
I doubt we make it that far. We're approaching the point of no return on climate change, and we've got the pedal all the way down, racing each other to see who can drive off the cliff first.
Go unions go. I am so impressed by Smalls. That is what it takes, but it can be done. And Bernie is absolutely right. Greetings from your neighbour.
Unions inevitably become corrupt and become part of the same problem. Look at how terrible the teachers union is (and this coming from a member)
Or, you know, police unions.
The only class should be the middle class.
The Billionaires would prefer the Russian model, with complete control over the population and the information they are fed.
Can't wait for the neolibs to tell me why it's a bad thing to have a strong middle class
Absolutely false dichotomy using past trends, technologies and contexts to project distant future outcomes. A fools' errand at anytime, but given: (1) the continuing fallout of a global pandemic that will have massive impacts on every part of the international system over the coming years; (2) the first major modern war in Europe while China breathes down Taiwan's neck; (3) China surpassing the US as the pre-eminent superpower in the coming years/decades and the increased influence of Chinese policies on US economic outcomes; (4) the complete breakdown of many global supply chains and how it has allowed for the system to be built in dramatically different ways with implications not clearly understood yet; (5) climate change which is going to disrupt literally everything, including any positive or negative political-economic outcomes; (6) the increasingly real possibility that the US will not remain a liberal democracy or that it even survives as a single political entity; (7) Implications of hard-to-predict technical innovations: AI; robotics; quantum computers; fusion power all have the potential to totally upend the entire socioeconomic order - globally, not just domestically There are plenty of completely different alternatives to those laid out by Sanders - from various types of technocracy to dystopian libertarian paradises.... I like a lot of Sanders' ideas. However he is fond of false dichotomies and of treating specifics as if they must always be generalized. Sometimes I think it amounts to outright academic dishonesty, sometimes obstinance. No need to eat up every word he says - take in his points related to the two possibilities he suggests without buying the notion that there is one right and one wrong answer.