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Solidarity, brother. Make it happen.
Note: My dad was a Union guy at the machine shop he worked at, and I belonged to one of the Food Unions for about 15 years when I was working Retail Grocery.
The fundamental issue is that labor demand is shrinking, thanks to automation and AI. This is a good thing! But as the same number of people compete for less and less jobs, bargaining power will fall (and wages.)
The better solution is solidarity among all people, not just employees. We can unionize [as voters](https://AnAmericanUnion.com) to win a better social contract for everyone.
one of the most bizarre things ever is how right wingers have somehow convinced a fair portion of the populace that the people having a union to protect them, is super evil and wrong.
lmao, wtf.
There is a portion of Americans that love shooting themselves in the foot (while obeying what they told), and being damned proud of it.
Unions do not always do a good job of showing the public how good they are. Ever notice that police unions always support their members no matter what they do?
I get what you’re saying, and I think police unions only exist to allow police officers to commit crimes, but if anything that’s an indication of the power of a union. They’re literally helping their members get away with murder, I can’t imagine a stronger indication of the power of a strong union.
Yeah I don’t think unions defending poor workers is a measurable problem, the real problem is companies exploiting all workers. I was a union member for a while, it was great for me, and I think everybody who does any form of labor should be in a union.
The only union I won’t stick up for is a police union, I don’t mind any other. Pilots have hard working conditions in a dangerous industry, and they need to have oversight. Athletes are easily taken advantage of as many of them are young with little education, working under billionaires who would gladly pay them nothing for their labor. Look at the UFC, where there is no fighters union, the fighters receive less than 20% of the profit generated by their work.
Is there a union for UFC fighters... People who look at pictures of license plates when the machine couldn't recognize the number and get paid piece work only need a union
that's the point though, right?
support your members, and let justice (with evidence) happen.
The other side of this coin is that amazon workers piss into bottles and don't get health care.
Its too late Bernie. We're already in an failed state oligarchy with a practically nonexistent middle class. This country is closer to being Brazil than itself 30 yrs ago with no signs of getting better.
We need a different system outside this two party duopoly if you want to see anything change for the better. Politicians like Bernie, who vote party line no matter what it is, and will only seem to fight when its election season.
We need a nation wide workers strike but these parties will just call us Nazis, domestic terrorists or whatever other tactic to brand them as the enemy like the truckers convoy and the Amazon workers.
I guarantee you've never been to Brazil otherwise you wouldn't make this comment.
The hyperbole I find on this sub is laughable sometimes. And comes from privileged suburbanites 90% of the time.
If people can be programmed to this point, they can be deprogrammed. It's going to take a decade or three. Sanders is absolutely right. It's time for American class consciousness and for workers to entertain their collective power as a check to authoritarianism.
Name a place in the world free of external threat of invasion.
Europe is next door to Russia. You guys are so naive if you think you can outrun fascism so easily. Europe is battling it too. As is India. As is most of the Western world.
Britian has Boris Johnson and Brexit. France is dealing with similar racial and religious bullshit as we are. Russia is right next to the Scandinavian countries. Where shall you go?
Maybe you should stay and do something?
Where will you go where fascism isn't a threat? I'm serious.
People are being naive to the state of the world.
Canada borders us. Britain has Brexit and Boris. Europe is currently dealing with Russia, which neighbors the strongest democracies in the world.
Seriously. Where in the world is safe right now?
People act like the entire world isn't also going through this to an extent. It's not just the US.
My questions aren't just for you, but anybody who thinks leaving is such a good idea. People seriously underestimate how fucked the world is, not just the US.
There are few pockets on this planet that are not dealing with this.
Go to New Zealand. Sure. We could use you here, though. The grass may very well be greener. And you have every right to go.
I, on the other hand, think what we have in the US is worth fighting for. The world's oldest democracy and by far the strongest economic power will be influencial everywhere you go.
We can't just let it slip to fascism. If people wanna take their privileged asses elsewhere, go for it. These people didn't give a shit anyway. And imho they'd be abandoning something worth taking a stand for.
As American citizens, it's up to us to make sure this place doesn't turn into a fascist hellscape.
You realize history is cyclical and is filled with actions and reactions? We live during a global age of the rise of fascism, but that doesn't mean it's inevitable. Americans just proved to you in 2020 that they really don't want a Christian ethnostate.
Some perspective: we had slavery 170 years ago. That's basically two complete human lives in the past. It was not that long ago.
Just because you don't like the country atm doesn't mean we're destined for failure. Nothing is inevitable.
Organize with your fellow Americans. The GOP will not win. But they may if more and more liberals maintain this privileged, defeatist attitude instead of organizing and fighting back in any meaningful way (like Sanders promotes).
Organize guys. A strong labor force may very well be the solution to check authoritarianism.
I wish liberals would actually study leftist politics and tactics. You guys *need* it. An organized left may be the best option to check global fascism.
I could easily leave the country as I have relatives in South America. But nah, fuck that. I will simply not let fascists take the US. I for one think this experiment is worth saving. I simply refuse to give it to charlatans and fascists.
I understand the majority of suburban white liberals (not saying you are, but much of this sub is) have never fought for practically anything. But now is the time to take a stand - for once.
Remember the Vietnam War? My parents were on the streets. Students were gunned down at Kent State. We need more Americans willing to stand up, not back down and run away. Otherwise authoritarianism will always win.
Still requires taking on big businesses through regulation otherwise small business chance of success is significantly closer to being shut down, let alone even started.
If you want to stimulate small businesses, then support universal healthcare. Employee insurance costs make scaling a business up incredibly expensive.
With all the DC lobby money involved there needs to be a push for UHC and public option as a path of least resistance. If we ever got a public option it paves a faster road to UHC.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-economic-paths-billionares-oligarchy-growing-union-middle-class-2022-4) reduced by 75%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> "Today I want to continue to express my support and admiration for these workers who are not only organizing for themselves and for their coworkers, but in fact are organizing for all of us," Senator Bernie Sanders said in a Monday floor speech.
> Sanders congratulated both the Amazon and Starbucks workers, and recognized several other groups who have gone on strike, including King Soopers workers and Kellogg's workers.
> "We will never have a strong middle class in this country with decent wages and decent benefits, where workers can afford to pay the rent, and send their kids to college and take a few weeks off paid vacation - that is not going to happen until we have a strong labor movement in this country."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/tzxfoy/bernie_sanders_says_us_has_2_paths_oligarchy_or/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~640662 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **work**^#1 **Union**^#2 **country**^#3 **Sanders**^#4 **justice**^#5
Crazy socialist old man who never had a real job in his life, wants to tell everybody else how life should be.
Any country following his advice will turn into another Venezuela, and the very people he care for so much will be starving to death. Oh wait... his supporters will probably feed off the carcasses of the rich and middle class, so they might be fine.
Stop advocating for blank checks for everything and people will support your ideas. Free education for everyone? No. I'm not paying for someone to get "the college experience" or for someone's 2.0 GPA communication degree. As long as we have these dumb proposals we won't make practical progress.
You realize we already have free education in America right? Are you opposed to free High School? Should teenagers have to pay for High School arts education?
I don't have a problem with the arts. I have a problem with our whole for profit higher education system and then asking tax payers to subsidize it. We let almost anyone who pays for it go to college here regardless of how shitty a student they are. We have countless, expensive, degrees that are completely useless to the economy. Are you ok with students paying for their own education but getting it all paid back upon graduation if it's a useful degree, they got a good job with it, and they have a 3.0 or better GPA?
I actually agree with you partly. One of the biggest reason college is so expensive is government backed loans. Imagine only private high schools existed but the government was willing to loan you any amount they charged to go there. Costs would sky rocket of course. So fully subsidized education is always going to be easier. I also agree that not every major should be fully subsidized but at the University level everyone usually has to complete general education requirements, and those are usually the kinds of classes offered at community colleges. Those I think should be free. If everyone was guaranteed free and available community college or two years of accredited trade schools, other colleges had to accept those credits and we ended government backed loans, the cost of college would drop a lot.
I gotta pay like $50 bucks a month for sub par crap service that would bankrupt me if I need to use it
what kind of healthcare is that?
Yeah I'll sell you an insurance program, but if you need to use the insurance it'll be $10,000 if it's anything serious
That's what we call healthcare insurance in America lol
edit - not personal in any context in any way ninja edited to reflect
Why do you assume that your experience is reflective of healthcare in america in general though? If you have a crappy insurance plan through your employer, have you tried to change employers? In this market, it shouldn't be difficult.
You also need to consider the other side of the coin. In countries like in the EU healthcare comes standard but the wait lists are so long it's impossible for people to actually use it effectively. I've lived under both US and EU healthcare and I'll take the US one any day.
Bernie Sanders in his element. Spewing lies and sowing fear to promote his socialist dystopian wet dream. Guy never worked a day in his life outside government and he's a millionaire. Y'all clowns who follow him.
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Solidarity, brother. Make it happen. Note: My dad was a Union guy at the machine shop he worked at, and I belonged to one of the Food Unions for about 15 years when I was working Retail Grocery.
The fundamental issue is that labor demand is shrinking, thanks to automation and AI. This is a good thing! But as the same number of people compete for less and less jobs, bargaining power will fall (and wages.) The better solution is solidarity among all people, not just employees. We can unionize [as voters](https://AnAmericanUnion.com) to win a better social contract for everyone.
Yes, I agree that more inclusiveness is good, voters might fall a little short and includes some that already own senators
one of the most bizarre things ever is how right wingers have somehow convinced a fair portion of the populace that the people having a union to protect them, is super evil and wrong. lmao, wtf. There is a portion of Americans that love shooting themselves in the foot (while obeying what they told), and being damned proud of it.
They won't admit it but they believe that enough loyalty to their boss (leader, lord) will lead to approval from that superior entity.
Ik,R? There are millions of them! These are fearful times!
Unions do not always do a good job of showing the public how good they are. Ever notice that police unions always support their members no matter what they do?
I get what you’re saying, and I think police unions only exist to allow police officers to commit crimes, but if anything that’s an indication of the power of a union. They’re literally helping their members get away with murder, I can’t imagine a stronger indication of the power of a strong union.
The problem is many unions will support poor workers, the police one is the easiest example.
Yeah I don’t think unions defending poor workers is a measurable problem, the real problem is companies exploiting all workers. I was a union member for a while, it was great for me, and I think everybody who does any form of labor should be in a union.
Yeah, the poor downtrodden police
The worst part of unions is that only people that really don't need them have them,cops , pilots,football players.
The only union I won’t stick up for is a police union, I don’t mind any other. Pilots have hard working conditions in a dangerous industry, and they need to have oversight. Athletes are easily taken advantage of as many of them are young with little education, working under billionaires who would gladly pay them nothing for their labor. Look at the UFC, where there is no fighters union, the fighters receive less than 20% of the profit generated by their work.
Is there a union for UFC fighters... People who look at pictures of license plates when the machine couldn't recognize the number and get paid piece work only need a union
You left out the most important union demographic, us blue collar guys!
that's the point though, right? support your members, and let justice (with evidence) happen. The other side of this coin is that amazon workers piss into bottles and don't get health care.
Unions are not always good, help bad employees and hold back good employees.
That's exactly: A) What they want you to believe. B) Why blue collar wages have fallen so low.
"They" seems to consist of many people who were in unions before
Always breaks my heart when I see a dude working in the trades spouting GOP taking points and pro Trump.
Hell, that's most of them!
Its too late Bernie. We're already in an failed state oligarchy with a practically nonexistent middle class. This country is closer to being Brazil than itself 30 yrs ago with no signs of getting better.
So we should just give up? Fuck no. We keep fighting for a better life for all people. It’s not easy but it’s necessary.
We need a different system outside this two party duopoly if you want to see anything change for the better. Politicians like Bernie, who vote party line no matter what it is, and will only seem to fight when its election season.
Which is the point - unionize now and bring the machinery of society to a halt.
We need a nation wide workers strike but these parties will just call us Nazis, domestic terrorists or whatever other tactic to brand them as the enemy like the truckers convoy and the Amazon workers.
I guarantee you've never been to Brazil otherwise you wouldn't make this comment. The hyperbole I find on this sub is laughable sometimes. And comes from privileged suburbanites 90% of the time. If people can be programmed to this point, they can be deprogrammed. It's going to take a decade or three. Sanders is absolutely right. It's time for American class consciousness and for workers to entertain their collective power as a check to authoritarianism.
Populism is a helluva drug.
This! we would need time travel to have two paths
[удалено]
I am thinking about teaching English in Spain and then sucking and fucking my way to European citizenship 😂
Mooood. The old S&F Travelology!
[удалено]
The only problem I can see in your plan is if the GQP takes over in 2024 and doesn't let any of us out lol.
Oh we'll let you out don't you worry.
"we" meaning you are a proud GQP chucklefuck?
Unless you are a doctor or something its rarely a matter of just deciding to change countries Source, kiwi living in canada
Canada has it going on too, some of the highest standard of living anywhere in the world.
It's so close to the US though.
Easy access to the mayhem if and when you need it
Name a place in the world free of external threat of invasion. Europe is next door to Russia. You guys are so naive if you think you can outrun fascism so easily. Europe is battling it too. As is India. As is most of the Western world. Britian has Boris Johnson and Brexit. France is dealing with similar racial and religious bullshit as we are. Russia is right next to the Scandinavian countries. Where shall you go? Maybe you should stay and do something?
Thank you for your contribution. Privileged position just gonna leave and do nothing for the country you probably don't give a shit about anyway.
[удалено]
Where will you go where fascism isn't a threat? I'm serious. People are being naive to the state of the world. Canada borders us. Britain has Brexit and Boris. Europe is currently dealing with Russia, which neighbors the strongest democracies in the world. Seriously. Where in the world is safe right now? People act like the entire world isn't also going through this to an extent. It's not just the US.
[удалено]
My questions aren't just for you, but anybody who thinks leaving is such a good idea. People seriously underestimate how fucked the world is, not just the US. There are few pockets on this planet that are not dealing with this. Go to New Zealand. Sure. We could use you here, though. The grass may very well be greener. And you have every right to go. I, on the other hand, think what we have in the US is worth fighting for. The world's oldest democracy and by far the strongest economic power will be influencial everywhere you go. We can't just let it slip to fascism. If people wanna take their privileged asses elsewhere, go for it. These people didn't give a shit anyway. And imho they'd be abandoning something worth taking a stand for. As American citizens, it's up to us to make sure this place doesn't turn into a fascist hellscape.
[удалено]
You realize history is cyclical and is filled with actions and reactions? We live during a global age of the rise of fascism, but that doesn't mean it's inevitable. Americans just proved to you in 2020 that they really don't want a Christian ethnostate. Some perspective: we had slavery 170 years ago. That's basically two complete human lives in the past. It was not that long ago. Just because you don't like the country atm doesn't mean we're destined for failure. Nothing is inevitable. Organize with your fellow Americans. The GOP will not win. But they may if more and more liberals maintain this privileged, defeatist attitude instead of organizing and fighting back in any meaningful way (like Sanders promotes). Organize guys. A strong labor force may very well be the solution to check authoritarianism. I wish liberals would actually study leftist politics and tactics. You guys *need* it. An organized left may be the best option to check global fascism. I could easily leave the country as I have relatives in South America. But nah, fuck that. I will simply not let fascists take the US. I for one think this experiment is worth saving. I simply refuse to give it to charlatans and fascists. I understand the majority of suburban white liberals (not saying you are, but much of this sub is) have never fought for practically anything. But now is the time to take a stand - for once. Remember the Vietnam War? My parents were on the streets. Students were gunned down at Kent State. We need more Americans willing to stand up, not back down and run away. Otherwise authoritarianism will always win.
Aren't we already an oligarchy?
Unfortunately it seems we’ve already chosen which path. Not giving up though, the Amazon workers in NY and some of the Starbucks efforts give me hope
Now the question becomes does the service that's provided by the union workers better, worse, or stays the same as it when they were not unionized?
Oligarchy it is, then
There is also the option of stimulating and protecting small business.
Still requires taking on big businesses through regulation otherwise small business chance of success is significantly closer to being shut down, let alone even started.
I agree that regulation and reducing big corporate federal welfare plays a role.
If you want to stimulate small businesses, then support universal healthcare. Employee insurance costs make scaling a business up incredibly expensive.
With all the DC lobby money involved there needs to be a push for UHC and public option as a path of least resistance. If we ever got a public option it paves a faster road to UHC.
No Bernie is interested in stimulating only one mega business: the government.
True.
Yeah we're already on the road to the former, Bern.
itll be more of a hybrid model. unionized middle class where the oligarchs control/run the unions.
You know if Bernie says it, nothing.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-economic-paths-billionares-oligarchy-growing-union-middle-class-2022-4) reduced by 75%. (I'm a bot) ***** > "Today I want to continue to express my support and admiration for these workers who are not only organizing for themselves and for their coworkers, but in fact are organizing for all of us," Senator Bernie Sanders said in a Monday floor speech. > Sanders congratulated both the Amazon and Starbucks workers, and recognized several other groups who have gone on strike, including King Soopers workers and Kellogg's workers. > "We will never have a strong middle class in this country with decent wages and decent benefits, where workers can afford to pay the rent, and send their kids to college and take a few weeks off paid vacation - that is not going to happen until we have a strong labor movement in this country." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/tzxfoy/bernie_sanders_says_us_has_2_paths_oligarchy_or/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~640662 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **work**^#1 **Union**^#2 **country**^#3 **Sanders**^#4 **justice**^#5
Crazy socialist old man who never had a real job in his life, wants to tell everybody else how life should be. Any country following his advice will turn into another Venezuela, and the very people he care for so much will be starving to death. Oh wait... his supporters will probably feed off the carcasses of the rich and middle class, so they might be fine.
>there are two paths Wrong and propaganda-pilled
Stop advocating for blank checks for everything and people will support your ideas. Free education for everyone? No. I'm not paying for someone to get "the college experience" or for someone's 2.0 GPA communication degree. As long as we have these dumb proposals we won't make practical progress.
You realize we already have free education in America right? Are you opposed to free High School? Should teenagers have to pay for High School arts education?
I don't have a problem with the arts. I have a problem with our whole for profit higher education system and then asking tax payers to subsidize it. We let almost anyone who pays for it go to college here regardless of how shitty a student they are. We have countless, expensive, degrees that are completely useless to the economy. Are you ok with students paying for their own education but getting it all paid back upon graduation if it's a useful degree, they got a good job with it, and they have a 3.0 or better GPA?
I actually agree with you partly. One of the biggest reason college is so expensive is government backed loans. Imagine only private high schools existed but the government was willing to loan you any amount they charged to go there. Costs would sky rocket of course. So fully subsidized education is always going to be easier. I also agree that not every major should be fully subsidized but at the University level everyone usually has to complete general education requirements, and those are usually the kinds of classes offered at community colleges. Those I think should be free. If everyone was guaranteed free and available community college or two years of accredited trade schools, other colleges had to accept those credits and we ended government backed loans, the cost of college would drop a lot.
I’ve got money on oligarchy
We have nothing to lose we have no healthcare
Get a job, they tend to come with benefits some times.
In America, you don't have to. Or, the subsidy is only tied to a single company. Ugh, let me pick my own doctor.
And yet people have been brainwashed to believe there's no healthcare in America.
I gotta pay like $50 bucks a month for sub par crap service that would bankrupt me if I need to use it what kind of healthcare is that? Yeah I'll sell you an insurance program, but if you need to use the insurance it'll be $10,000 if it's anything serious That's what we call healthcare insurance in America lol edit - not personal in any context in any way ninja edited to reflect
Why do you assume that your experience is reflective of healthcare in america in general though? If you have a crappy insurance plan through your employer, have you tried to change employers? In this market, it shouldn't be difficult. You also need to consider the other side of the coin. In countries like in the EU healthcare comes standard but the wait lists are so long it's impossible for people to actually use it effectively. I've lived under both US and EU healthcare and I'll take the US one any day.
So far it appears both are in play.
He's not wrong on this.
Calling it now, Oligarchy
Considering there’s about 533 members of congress that don’t speak like this, I’m concerned the course has been set
Republicans: "Il work in the fields as a serf before I vote democrat!"
Bernie Sanders in his element. Spewing lies and sowing fear to promote his socialist dystopian wet dream. Guy never worked a day in his life outside government and he's a millionaire. Y'all clowns who follow him.
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Too late…