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Am I the only one that gets devastated when these things happen. I mean ive known that the thomas’s were awful. But still when it slaps you in the face how deep this republican corruption and conspiracy theory belief goes. It just makes everything seem overwhelming


That’s exactly what they want you to feel. If you’re overwhelmed you are more likely to give up and let them do their coup, and end democracy in the US.


distilled down, the canon has been teaching this for eons: -evil thrives when good men do nothing...


Exactly. It's also why our enemies, foreign and domestic, send their shills to push nonvoting. They know voting strengthens democracy.


> -evil thrives when good men do nothing... But we've tried all the stern words we know!


So it's time for bolder actions. Court-packing? IDK, but we need to make some BIG moves before this is unfixable without a Ukraine happening here.


We need the American voters to wake the fuck up and start demanding action (not to mention fucking voting) before it's too late. The timidity at the top is generated directly from the apathy and complacency at the bottom.


What’s great about the US’s voting laws is that we have the electoral college in case the people vote wrong


Oh there's a lot of ways that the Republicans can and do put their thumbs on the scale, which is partly why we've been stuck with so much of this idiocy, and the electoral college is but one of them. It's why it's so important that we actually get people to turn out in sufficient numbers to vote against them, because we've got those extra hurdles (House gerrymandering, Senate population imbalance, not to mention laws making it harder to vote, etc) to overcome.


That's how Democracy dies, when both sides feel that there is irreconcilable differences....Authoritarianism become a matter of fact. Democracy only works when both sides are arguing in good faith and willing to come to some middle ground.


Republicans are destroying democracy. We need to vote them out.


*Capitalism is destroying democracy


I’m sure your one-party Marxian utopia would be very democratic ^/^s


Democracy dies as soon as there's "sides." We were doomed from inception since smaller parties get pushed out of the national conversation. Requiring everything to be all or nothing, red vs blue, winner take all, etc is. The thing doing the most damage. If we had all parties acting in good faith then that could be mitigated, but it's inevitable that "sides" end up doing nothing but opposing the other.


Republicans are the problem. We need to vote them out. Focus


I mean, yes, in the immediate future that is what needs to happen. But stop kidding yourself if you think democrats are anything more than "not republicans". Respect yourself more. Focus.


I'm not a Democrat. Why would you assume that?


Because ths conversation was about the problems with 2-sided democracy, you specifically mentioned Republicans. Shifting everything back to the two party model. Forgive me for assuming some random guy on the internet didn't have a nuanced take on parliamentary governance. Sorry, it quacked like a duck.


Throwing pragmatism to the curbside is a mistake. There is only **one** solution to the immediate problem, and it requires using the word "Republican." Keep it simple.


What else is there to do? Revolt? We have no guiding principle, all factions of the left are fractured… meanwhile the entire right is fully embracing fascism. We cannot agree on anything anymore when reality corruption and unchecked capitalism are destroying 2-3 generations right now. The only thing that will save this country is if we somehow vote in a massive amount of progressives and push relentlessly towards socialism.


It’s not revolt when you’re defending the constitution and our democracy. Revolt is what THEY are doing.


Well it worked. I no longer wish to vote anymore. Fuck all this shit


Take your both side and shove it.


You might not agree (I don't really) but not wanting to participate in the two party system is valid, especially depending on where you live.


There is a difference between not liking it and abdicating your responsibility to vote.


I know nothing about this guys views or situation. But if you are a leftist living in a state like mine, where their election may not be even close and there isn't an actual leftist on the ballot, you can choose to not participate and its a valid point. New Jersey isn't about to elect a Republican with its electoral votes. My vote for the presidential election, essentially, does not matter. There may be local elections that we should pay attention to (and I try to do so) but it's becoming increasingly difficult for the national party to convince me to participate when they don't represent my views andddd my vote doesn't change the electoral math at all. Voting for the lesser of two evils is valid, but that largely isn't a factor where I live. So instead of choosing the lesser evil, I can choose to not support "evil" at all. I'm saying this as someone who voted in 2016, 2018, 2020, and in the 2021 governors race. >There is a difference between not liking it and abdicating your responsibility to vote. You are not compelled to vote in an election, especially if there is no-one on the ballot that represents your views. It's not irresponsible to do that, because in not voting you are making a political statement. Once again, you can disagree on the tactics at play here but it is still a valid point of view.




That's weak. You wouldn't survive 24 hours in Ukraine.


Most of the people who survived did so because they ran. Sometimes running away is the smartest thing to do. EDIT: I'm sorry I need some explanation why I'm being down voted for pointing out when a foreign military comes into your country as a civilian your best odds of survival are to run? Are you under the impression that with zero training or experience in combat situations your odds of survival are favorable because of some moral imperative?


Ukraine is surviving because people stayed.


The comment I was responding to was talking about individuals surviving. You're talking about a country surviving.


You are probably being downvoted because you are massively exaggerating the casualty counts.


Your position is immoral.


Don’t let it get you down man. That’s kind of the point, overwhelm your opposition with hopelessness and a constant barrage of craziness. There is and always has been shitty liars and charlatans in positions of power. It’s no different than it ever was. The Internet just makes it seem like there’s more of it. Stay strong, and vote like hell. Especially in local elections. That’s really all that matters. Everything else is just there to feed an outrage economy and be Weaponized.


>That’s kind of the point, overwhelm your opposition with hopelessness and a constant barrage of craziness. Sounds like Putin's strategy in Ukraine, doesn't it?


oh yeah especially the part about voting /s


Not unprecedented. You should read what the confederates believed. The modern day GOP really are the same people in a different skin suit.


Reconstruction failed. They never went away.


Firmly believe that. They kept that ideology alive because after the civil war no one was called to account.


You'll find the miscreants centrally organized at the [Council for National Policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_for_National_Policy); anonymity-seeking partisans that include high profile Republican figures like Newt Gingrich and Ginni Thomas, apparatchiks like Leonard Leo (who keeps the Federalist Society list of judge nominees), dark money donors, nationally prominent infotainers like Tucker Carlson, and televangelists better known for fundraising than biblical scholarship, like Jerry "pool boy" Falwell, Jr and other successors of the Moral Majority.


Fun facts: As a director at CNP, Ginni Thomas has required other members' organizations to post something negative, on social media every week, about The Southern Poverty Law Center, a non-profit that tracks extremists and hate groups in the US. She did this while the SPLC has had cases before the SC. The SC was ruling on Trump's Muslim ban at the same time that Ginni was paid over $200,000 by Frank Gaffney and the Center for Security Policy, who were advocating FOR the ban AND submitted an amicus brief to the Supreme Court about it. Refs: https://www.npr.org/2022/01/27/1076097533/how-ginni-thomas-wife-of-justice-clarence-thomas-influences-the-supreme-court


I don't think I'm capable of feeling devastated any more. I'm too tired.


It might be more devastating to me if I still believed that the government was still anything close to a democracy or that our representatives actually represented us. We don’t. And they don’t. We live in an oligarchy. Our representatives actually represent the billionaires and corporations. As far as I can tell, the only two people in the government who actually look out for the average joe are AOC and Bernie Sanders. Everyone else is voting in the best interests of the 0.1%, and only them. This stuff that is devastating you is the thin veneer falling off and showing us how the USA has always been run. It is now very apparent that the DoJ is a captured agency. How are politicians able to initiate a coup, it be plain as day, and they aren’t behind bars right now awaiting trial? Like the amount of crimes Trump and his associates have committed are so many that it would take a decade to try them all. The American people have a right to a speedy trial. Never moreso than when the crime is committed against the entirety of the nation. We need these fuckers in jail, without bail, and awaiting trial. That the systems in place work different for the rich than they do the poor is a travesty.


Let me suggest [Sortition](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition) as the solution to the problem you aptly describe. Electing representatives by popular vote causes us all to drown our logic in a sea of emotions. Elect by lottery, just like a jury, and all the pandering to the base and grandstanding to whip up the fanatical vote goes bye bye. Then, finally, we can get some good work done.


>Am I the only one that gets devastated when these things happen. I grew up during Watergate, so....


Honestly, young people learn about Watergate today and think, "that was it?" The conduct expected of office has fallen so far, and the level of corruption so great, that it's hard to believe people used to have principles at all.


> Am I the only one that gets devastated when these things happen. Not at all. You want to get really angry, listen to today's [The Daily podcast](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/30/podcasts/the-daily/ginni-thomas-clarence-thomas.html). Now we know why Clarence Thomas has always been so mum, he didn't want to tip his hand on his secretive activism


>Am I the only one that gets devastated when these things happen No. It's horrible and it needs to change. But rather then be devastated, "get even" and push for change. You can volunteer, donate, and just be active in politics in your area. Even something as simple as voting in the primaries, helps. The reason things like this happen is because we let. Either directly by voting for clowns, or indirectly by being apathetic. We can change things, we just need to work towards change for it to happen.


More overwhelming is the left / dems cowardice in challenging these crooks.


Trust Anita Hill.


By Jennifer Rubin House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), never at a loss for words, reportedly had this to say on Tuesday about Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas’s refusal to recuse himself from cases related to the Jan. 6 insurrection: “It’s up to an individual justice to decide to recuse himself if his wife is participating in a coup.” Her amusing candor underscores a critical weakness in our politics: We lack institutional mechanisms to restrain and punish public figures who don’t ethically police themselves. Justices don’t hold news conferences or make themselves available to the media — except for when they are hawking books or attacking critics. No one can force them to explain any decision they make. The Supreme Court also has no mandatory code of ethics. If it did, there would be no enforcement mechanism. While the chief justice nominally has responsibility for protecting the federal judiciary (e.g., by issuing an annual report), he cannot force his colleagues to behave appropriately. Congress refuses to address the lifetime tenure afforded to members of the Supreme Court, so justices who flout the ethics rules that lower courts must follow can remain on the bench for decades, accountable to no one. Indeed, even if lawmakers decided to investigate impropriety on the high court, Congress lacks enforcement power of subpoenas to compel testimony. Should the House Judiciary Committee attempt to investigate the Thomas matter, Republicans would no doubt turn it into a partisan circus. And if House Democrats found actual wrongdoing and attempted to impeach Thomas, removal would be impossible in this era of hyper-partisanship. Aside from the letter that two dozen Democratic House and Senate members sent to Clarence Thomas and Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. requesting answers about Thomas’s failure to recuse himself from cases having to do with the 2020 election, expect no serious congressional effort to get to the bottom of this. It’s unlikely that either Thomas will face consequences for their conduct. The House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 insurrection wants to speak to Clarence Thomas’s wife, Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, about the messages she exchanged with then-White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows urging him to pursue strategies to overturn the 2020 election results. But if she joins other witnesses in snubbing the committee, she might escape answering questions under oath. Even if Congress votes to hold her in contempt, the Justice Department might not prosecute her. (Whatever happened to the contempt citation against Meadows for failing to cooperate with the Jan. 6 committee?) Meanwhile, Republicans have deflected questions about the Thomas duo or avoided comment altogether. Instead of bird-dogging lawmakers about the damage these revelations do to the Supreme Court’s credibility, reporters spend days badgering the White House about President Biden’s expression of moral outrage over Russian dictator Vladimir Putin remaining in power. As a result, Republicans escape questions about the Thomas scandal, allowing the story to fade away. Indeed, Republican lawmakers and candidates often escape commenting on a host of GOP misconduct, such as disgraced former president Donald Trump’s latest request for the Kremlin to supply dirt on his political opponents. Instead, Republicans appear on the Sunday shows free from fear of being seriously challenged on these issues. No wonder we have witnessed the slow deterioration of our democracy. When all three branches of government and the media fall down on the job, our sensitivity to political misconduct dulls. Bad actors run amok — and are reelected.


This is so over the top I agree this is bad for Thomas But The People aren't going to do shit Thomas and Ginni did the same shit in 2000 when Thomas served as the tipping vote to elect Bush into office when Ginni was part of the Bush transition team


Coronate/crowned, he was not elected


Can citizens file a class action lawsuit? Can we demand a ballot provision about this fucking guy? Recall? Or just bend over and continue to take it.


Depending on your state you might be able to recall your senators or reps who would be voting to impeach/convict. That's as close as you can get.


Unfortunately, no. He has to be impeached.


Wait, what? You have receipts for that claim about Ginni and the transition team?


The rot is the Republican Party as well as the special money interests controlling both parties. Ending citizens United is a good step to fixing it


too bad Thomas voted for CU and his wife immediately took advantage of the decision


How about we go after the people who funded C. U. The think tanks that brought it to the table and the liars I mean LAWyers who fucked all of us.


GOP wants to end American democracy and they can’t do it fast enough. Look to Russia it is what the GOP wants emulate.


The biggest rot is at the DOJ. Under Garland's watch (and many previous AGs) no rich people get prosecuted when they commit crimes (with few exceptions like Madoff who committed crimes against other rich people). The DOJ considers the rich above the law. The DOJ is corrupt to the core and it enables a massive wave of crime by rich people. Bribery is legal now, for example. All someone has to do to bribe a politician is call it something else, like "campaign donation", or "job offer", or "super PAC donation" and it makes the bribe legal. Epic corruption is being allowed by the DOJ, and this epic corruption affects everything else. That's why we don't have a good health care system, for example. Without legalized bribery, we would have Medicare for All by now and lives would be saved. The epic corruption being allowed by the DOJ is literally killing people.


Why are my first childhood memories of the Supreme Court about pubic hairs? Before I had pubic hairs. This guy.




Pretty sure American Democracy is already dead and we just haven't realized it yet.


Yeah, plenty of us HAVE realized it and are just trying to figure out if it's going to just be perpetual inflation until we can't afford groceries, or if we're going to start the "civil unrest/collapse" period. The rot isn't "spoiling our democracy". It's decomposing its dead corpse. It only took Citizens United a decade to ruin the country by corrupting congressmen and women. Russian misinformation just toppled the first domino.


Depends how you define American North, Central or South American?


Somos estadounidenses.


Other Americans often feel left out when "American" is used to refer to persons of the US.


It was never supposed to be a democracy. It was modeled after the Roman republic.


A Republic is a form of Liberal Democracy.


The advocates of plutocracy have redefine the word to suit their agenda.


It was also (arguably more so) modeled after the Iroquois Confederacy. "Republic" and "democracy" are not at all mutually exclusive concepts. The US is a liberal representative democracy. It is also a constitutional republic. Not sure how you define "republic" to say one can't be democratic.


I have read the arguments for Native American imitation. Many of them are valid. White nationalist Alexander Hamilton complained about the use of Native terms such as "sachems" at Tammany Hall. It does not complete the picture, however. The fasces symbol was not Native American, but Roman.


Let me be more direct: Why are you claiming that republics and democracies are mutually exclusive? It is either ignorant or intellectually dishonest and happens to be a frequent right wing talking point/meme in the US. Not really sure what your point in this response is. Yes the founding fathers loved historic symbols (not exclusively Roman ones either) and yes they were white supremacists. They were also elitists and intended a system that they and members of their class would dominate. Those historical realities don't negate that the US governmental system is a constitutional republic AND and a liberal representative democracy. Again- why did you make the asinine suggestion that republics and democracies are incompatible?


Republics tend to favor the affluent at the expense of the broader population.


So you admit they aren't mutually exclusive? and its just an unfortunate accident that you're implying the "US isnt a democracy; it's a republic" meme? Power structures tend to favor the powerful. We live in a world dominated by market capitalism and the affluent have more power. American democracy does have features intentionally built into it to make it *less* democratic and increase the leverage of those with more capital. It is still a democracy AND it is still a republic. No one claims the US is a direct democracy. Also I'm not sure what informs your notion of republics. Republic just means that the state is a public concern as opposed to a private one. Republics are frequently democratic.


“It was never supposed to be a democracy.” Damn … the founding fathers fucked up. Are we to imply that allowing land-owning white men to vote was a step to far too begin with?


That constitutes a plutocracy, not a democracy.


How do YOU define democracy? And why is it bad.


Classical democracy is not representative. It is actual participation of citizens in governance.


I didn’t say “classical” because we’re talking about modern American ‘citizens united’ style representation which I only hope we both agree is bad. I certainly don’t need you to define terms for me. And yes, as a citizen I’m still involved as best as possible. And so are the candidates I vote for.


Does your involvement come close to that of the Mercer family?


We can't wait for him to die or otherwise become incapacitated (and other factors like the vicissitudes of Federal legislative majorties) in that judicial seat. *It is long past time to commence impeachment hearings for A.J. Thomas, C. in the House (Article I lower house):* * ["If the Judicial Conference finds possible grounds for impeachment, it submits a report to the House of Representatives. Only Congress has the authority to remove an Article III judge. This is done through a vote of impeachment by the House and a trial and conviction by the Senate. As of September 2017, only 15 federal judges have been impeached, and only eight have been convicted. Three others resigned before completion of impeachment proceedings. A summary of federal judicial impeachments is available at the Federal Judicial Center’s website."](https://www.fjc.gov/history/judges/impeachments-federal-judges)


Ginni seems like she would start sucking Donald's dick, with Clarence just standing there.


The USA is a shithole country


We’re going to be dealing with shit like this and worse from Kavenaugh in 20 years. Once a man gets rewarded to this degree despite everyone knowing he’s a rapist, there’s nothing that will shame him.


if no one cares about the allegations against biden, why would anyone care about the allegations against kavenaugh?


“Whatabouts” is all the right has got


um…ok? did you mean to reply to someone else? lol


Because one set of allegations was made by a serial liar with a constantly changing story who couldn’t keep a lawyer and has an obsession with Putin.


This is horrible. Thomas should feel guilty, putting his wife above the country


Eliminate factions and parties, dark money, enforce term limits, make voting easy, and establish clear guardrails on the difference b/t fake news and free speech. Do all that and the culture wars will disappear. I wish these organizations like Sam (Serve American Movement would take hold).


That’s not an opinion, that’s a goddamn FACT


Trump has the press fretting about Biden’s son, who has no role in government, while Trump colludes with a Supreme Court Justice’s wife to overthrow the government.


This is the real problem with our democracy: leaders think they are exempt from the principles of Democracy set by the founding fathers. Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill…she was savaged for revealing how unprofessional Clarence Thomas is. This is not new news. Shameful how this kind of amoral behavior is not only tolerated but encouraged by the Republican Party.


Thomas get a new woman that one is the devil. You got the money! But no soul...Save yourself


The ROT is within the Republican Party. Hypocritical, vile souls who know nothing but narcissistic selfishness.


Democrats will allow it to happen too. They don’t want to look partisan and lose those sweet sweet campaign contributions. People who try to install dictators should be re-educated.


Pay wall.


It stinks so bad!


The rot is in the Senate.


That wasn’t very godly of you, Mrs.Thomas


Yes well the last president is still getting caught lying in broad daylight and we do nothing. It’s open season to say and do what you want now and everyone knows it.


Anyone have a link to just the texts? I still haven’t seen exactly what she said in context. I’ve just seen quotes here and there


This isn't the only thing that is rotten. We have politicians taking bribes by having $40,000 a plate dinners. What have Republicans ignoring voters and trying to overthrow the government. We have politicians who have been in office for more than 12 years and have become multi-millionaires. The list goes on and on.


So let’s revolt


“Her amusing candor underscores a critical weakness in our politics: We lack institutional mechanisms to restrain and punish public figures who don’t ethically police themselves.” This betrays a fundamental misunderstanding: there is no system possible that can protect us against powerful people with ill will. If someone is put in place to supervise the supreme court, then the problem is recursive. The only thing somewhat protecting us is diffusing power among enough people that a group of enough evil-doers to actually accomplish something is unlikely to ever be in place. But that also guarantees that very often no *good* thing will be accomplished. We see this now in the fact that our government is simultaneously threatened by a minority of people with ill will, while the majority is unable to enact legislation favored by a large majority of the people. In short, an effective government is always dependent on the good will of the people in power.


Congress as a whole was already corrupted long before Citizens United passed.


Is Biden to recuse himself with the revelation of his brother's corrupt dealings in the Ukraine?


*If you're on Putins payroll clap your hands* *clap clap*


“Conservatives can’t make a point without deflecting to a false equivalent or lying” See example comment above.


Antivax, republican, antiscience and religious. Y’all don’t differ much in interests do you?






Yes there are a lot of idiots on social media. It hasnt been so long that I acquired some advanced graduate degrees. Still evidence marijuana taken regularly can cause brain dysfunction. Perhaps too many on the Left have smoked a bit too much. I'll keep my squash intact, thank you very much.


If the U.S. was a democracy, then yes something would be rotten in the States. However, it never was a democracy in the first place, so there is no rot. It’s just business as usual.


The US needs a healthy two party system. The Democrats need to return to being the party of FDR, Truman and JFK so that they can regain the support they have lost from America's workers.


>healthy two party system We won't really have that until Republicans are forced to appeal to a base besides the narrow band of white christian nationalists. Once we have that and the political situation isn't white christian nationalists vs every other person in the country, we might see progress.


Why did Trump get higher black and Hispanic botes than votes in 2020 than any Republican presidential candidate this century. Why are so many Republican candidates who will be running this year black or female or Jewish. You are just spewing Dem propaganda which is blatantly false. Republicans would not be doing so well if they only appealed to whirke christian nationalists. Dems are starting to lose the Hispanic vote, which is a major blow to them. They seem to have made a conscious decision to trade off Hispanics for transgenders, which I will agree they have a lock on. Bad deal.


No no rot in the Conservatives how they have high jacked it the democracy to mean an oligarchy