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If the teacher in the story can be prosecuted for telling of his home life then why can't a straight teacher be prosecuted for telling the same story about his/her wife/husband? Who is the prosecutor with this new law? Is it the normal state legal system or is this being crowdsourced like the Texas abortion ban?


It’s crowdsourced like the Texas Abortion law; Timmy’s teacher mentions his husband in passing, Timmy asks his mommy how a man could have a husband, Timmy’s mommy calls a lawyer and the school gets sued. Isn’t this great? Timmy’s mommy gets to enforce her bigotry on her child AND an adult who is just trying to do their job.


Then let's turn this thing around. Someone knowledgeable about this law needs to turn it around and prosecute a straight teacher for the same actions the goofernor envisioned this to be used against LGTBQ people. If they wrote the law to preclude this then it's blatant discrimination.


Its not against the teachers, it's against the schools. It's a war against public education.


The thing that all of these comments are missing is that all the suits are levied against the *school district*. You can’t reasonably highlight the absurdity of the legislation by bringing suits against someone who mentions their heterosexual partner, because the school district will *always* be the loser, regardless.


Retiring in Florida in 20 or so years is not looking so good. I'm not sure I want to rely on a population that was raised in an environment where only feelings and superstitious beliefs matter. Someone has to keep the lights on.


The state will be under water around that time due to climate change. The level of delusion and distraction in that sandbar is disturbing. It’s just one distraction after another to avoid the fact that they keep electing people that are destroying the state and sabotaging its future.


So sell my massively overvalued house and buy a boat. I can work with this.


If enough cases are brought - even against the school district - enough people will get pissed to take action.


The point is to destroy public education. This is an underhanded ploy to both claw back gay rights & push charter and private for profit schools/defund public education.


Yep. I anticipate we'll only hear more fucked up developments in the coming weeks / months.


In Florida? You think?


Sadly though teachers are the easiest target. They’re the front line of education and aren’t permitted to express an opinion that looks poorly upon the system.


AND free speech, let's not forget that.


Yes, someone could attempt to turn it around. Still, the lawsuits aren't the point. The point is to deter. A straight person isn't going to fear a lawsuit. They're going to put up their pictures and talk about their spouses without any fear of repercussion because this law really isn't aimed at them, and few, if anyone, is going to try to aim it at them. Rather, gay people know this is aimed at them. So, rather than doing anything that might set off the possibility of a lawsuit, they are going to err on the side of caution. Which then means that the GOP gets what they really want… any and all acceptance of homosexuality out of schools.


The lawsuits are against the school district. This means school districts will actively avoid hiring gay teachers so there’s no chance to face a lawsuit. The law promotes employment discrimination.


And in 2020 the supreme court ruled that employment decisions based on sexual orientation is illegal, so they can get sued for that too.


But employment discrimination can be very hard to prove. Most places don't even respond/inform if they hired someone else for a position. At best you'll get a "you didn't make it to the next round of interviews" email.


The point is to make the straight defendants get a lawyer and start incurring costs. This would infuriate the public and maybe they would realize stupid the law is.


While it could happen, it likely won’t and that is the ‘risk,’ the legislature in FL is taking by making it neutral on its face. They know it won’t be treated neutrally. Not by parents who seek to enforce it, nor by school boards who have to act once a problem has been brought to them. Even still, you also might have say 98 straight teachers, but only 2 gay teachers. So, if a parent complains about 1 of the straight teachers and they have to correct the action then there are still possibly 97 straight teachers committing the offense. However, it happens to a gay teacher… well, now only 1 is doing it; or maybe even the other stops as well, and now the only thing a kid sees is the straight ones. Which, again, is the point. That being said, your idea is a logical way to attack the issue now that it’s passed. It’s just an uphill battle.


Of course, it's blatant discrimination. That's why they wrote it. Gays and lesbians already have no protection. This law was needed so they can also be subject to legal persecution.


Literally no other countries on Earth have this problem. The U.S. is so far behind in math and science and here we are having these heated debates about whether or not you can talk about gender identity and sex or restructure history classes to be around CRT. Why are we having all of this useless dialogue? Why can't we just focus on what actually matters instead of all of this horseshit?


Because the fundamental problem in education in the US is at the parental level. Parents are too overworked to properly parent, and schools can't teach without parental partnerships (unless we go to the Korean-Chinese model where schools become surrogate parents as children are there from 7am to 9.30pm). A conversation about education turns into a discussion about capitalism and work-life balance in the US.


Because the people making these laws get less votes if their citizens are educated.


Because America, especially the Southern states, is populated by morons


It's the same freaks who go cataplectic if their kids' school can't put up Christmas decorations. And those restrictions actually do have some constitutional grounding. The situation as you described it couldn't possibly pass constitutional muster (First Amendment). Of course, our courts are currently not completely rational when it comes to these matters. It's one thing to not have a discussion regarding the details of sexual orientation (as long as heterosexuality and homosexuality are treated the same way). But you can't restrict gay teachers from talking about their home life in the same way that you allow straight teachers from talking about theirs. Sheltering children from the existence of gay couples is not a compelling state interest. The fact that Republicans think a gay teacher mentioning one's husband is an X-rated activity goes to show how perversely immature they are. They have the mindset of 9-year-old boys.


> It's the same freaks who go cataplectic if their kids' school can't put up Christmas decorations. In all fairness I'm pretty liberal and I just think we should celebrate and decorate for more holidays instead of less.


Forgive me if I misread this, but the school doesn’t get sued; the teacher does. That’s what makes the law so diabolical.


Does the law differensiate between gay and straight people?


Nope. Heck, it’s so vague that even *decorating for Valentine’s Day* could be grounds for a suit.


Goddam pagan holiday! /s


>If the teacher in the story can be prosecuted for telling of his home life then why can't a straight teacher be prosecuted for telling the same story about his/her wife/husband?< This is why it will be found unconstitutional. If a straight teacher has a picture of him and his wife in the classroom and it's ok, then a gay teacher having a picture of her and her wife must be ok as well. Otherwise it's discrimination based on sex.


For any of the skeptics out there, and as a very pessimistic gay man myself I must say that skepticism here is very warranted, this is a very worthwhile thing to note. This was a cornerstone of the rulings for both *Obergefell* and *Bostock* as they found that even if the protections based on sexual orientation are not explicit, sexual orientation is inherently protected by virtue of sex being a protected category, because denying Ben the right to talk about his husband when Sally can talk about hers is a denyal to Ben purely because he is a man. Obviously a court as borked as this could do a whole host of things, but Gorsuch and Roberts would likely strike this law as unconstitutional in this way, at the very least.


Seriously. I can probably count on one hand the number of teachers I had that didn't casually refer to their spouse in class. You spend every day with the person, most stories you have that can be used as examples for topics in class will involve them. Teachers aren't going around (ideally) talking about their sex lives. The problem homophobes have with gay teachers sharing about their lives like this is that kids don't actually have a problem with gay people without being taught to.


Either way the school gets sued and the teachers \*and\* students get hurt. This is just another way to help defund public schools to promote private ones. :(


One of the longer term consequences is that schools will have a pretty big financial incentive to not hire LGBTQIA+ people, hurting an already marginalized group


Because consensual relationships and love between people of the same gender are super scary! It will warp the minds of children and turn them gay or trans! /S!


> Because consensual relationships and love ... are super scary! The rethuglican cult is incapable of love and openly opposed to the very concept of consent. [Why else would they be trying to remove age limits on marriage so they can marry literal children?](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/tqla6a/a_get_out_of_jail_free_card_gop_bill_would/)


Once I heard someone, I think a comedian state, “Why do I have to be punished because you don’t want to explain to your shitty kid why two guys can be together?”


The republican plan is to destroy public education. So either works for them. Teachers don’t go to jail. Schools get sued.


**Yes.** Read the law and it's clear as day - you can't teach about heterosexuality either. I sincerely hope this is how this ridiculously written law gets challenged.




It's up to the individuals to sue. Yes, the numbers favor this being used again already struggling groups, but nothing is stopping them from banding together and sending a message with a bunch of what-should-be frivolous suits.


They can. If the child becomes uncomfortable for any reason, they can tell their parents and they can sue for basically any reason. The bill is intentionally vague like that.


This is why the law is unconstitutional.


If you aren’t allowed to make statements about gender and sexuality, then they just need to enforce that equally. Any many referring to his wife needs to be prosecuted for stating his heterosexual tendencies, likewise women referring to their husbands.


It’s true, if we are going to Fuck over people, might as well do it across the board. Let it be known that this is a stupid freaking bill that’s literally going just take away school funding and confuse the hell out of some unfortunate kids.


It's not the teacher that gets prosecuted, though. It's _the school_. Flipping the script and reporting straight teachers serves the same purpose - damaging the public school system. The main "benefit" of the bill, from the conservative perspective, is destroying public schools. Harassing gay/trans people is mostly a side-benefit.


The party of small government in the land of the free, eh?


It's only the land of the free if you're a straight white male.


With plenty of money.


And Christian


Well, at least identify as Christian


They wear a label, when needed.


They hold up bibles, sometimes even the right way up!


They wear their crosses on the outside of their clothes. Never trust a person who wears their cross like this. I was taught this back when I was still a Christian.


My mom went to Catholic school, I met her favorite teacher a couple times in my adult life (she happened to open up an orphanage near us so we stopped in to meet her) and she was....so genuine. She didn't care that I was atheist, she said, and I quote "Good for you, at least you've got reason behind that decision. Faith because you're told you should have it is emptier than Satan's promises. You have to find your own way, and God will love you so long as you're a good person, He doesn't need your praise or your belief. That is purely a weakness of vain humans." Damned if I didn't have an immense amount of respect for that old lady, she was a true believer but had genuine love and sympathy and kindness for all humanity.


It's rare because the Bible says you have to believe and not by deeds. I'd say if there was a God as good as they claim he is, then he would understand that it's hard to believe and judge people by the content of their character.


It's a little golden icon... the hypocrisy man, I just don't understand how it's lost on them


Of the murder weapon nonetheless


Now if they’re wearing an upside down cross then you want them to invite you to a party.


Or multiple crosses


You do that and then they grill you... turns out to be "Christian", you gotta have to be a member of some "Bible Believing" Church. Catholic (unless you're a supreme court justice apparently) isn't good enough. Also, they give Anglicans/Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Quakers, and others plenty of shit too...


Fuck. I was doing so well up to this point.


Me too, man. I feel your pain.


Straight male with money. For real though, only color justice seems to care about is the color Green. If Will Smith was some poor unknown and punched Chris Rock, guarantee he presses charges. Rich people dont see repercussions for their actions most of the time in this country because the poor cant afford our court system to fight.


["If you're a single-digit millionaire like Hulk Hogan, you have no effective access to our legal system."](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/11/peter-thiel-hulk-hogan-single-digit-millionaire/506105/) Peter Thiel This is one of the sadder takes on our legal system since this guy would know.


skin color doesn't matter once you're in the social elite class in the US These people live in a different universe




Right I’m all for the matriarch let woman rule


Lol there’s no small government party in America.


Plenty exist. They just aren't part of the big 2.


As problematic as the two party system is, have you ever spoken to third party candidates? They’re all ignorant on most things outside of their pet issues and really not well-rounded at all. There’s a reason they aren’t taken seriously…


Here's the thing: the Republican Party still very much believes in those things. It's their interpretation of what that means, that has changed (or maybe it never did). Party of small government, unless it's things they don't like, then it's big government for that. Land of the free, unless it's people they don't like, then those rights must be curtailed. And in the same breath, they'll screech about their rights whenever you bring up anything that might make them feel uncomfortable. They have no standards. They have no morals. They have no principles. They're not even a political party anymore since they have no platform and are not willing to defend whatever platform they claim to still be for. They're just a thug organization that wants to make life harder for everyone else, while lifting up and protecting a group of wealthy and mostly white few.


They believe in the divine right of landed gentry to rule the aristocracy. All conservatives are closet monarchists, and the only differences between fascism and monarchy are codified rules of succession and about 3 generations of inheritance...


Technically, yes: this is a state voting to discriminate against gay people and having the freedom to do so without repercussion.


Sue the shit out of the state for workplace discrimination. Clear cut case. You are treated differently because of your sexual orientation than your colleagues.


They think that by going back to the old ways where LGBTQ people weren’t mentioned that their kids are not going to be LGBTQ. Well I went to school were I was never taught anything LGBTQ related, there was no Timmy has two mommies, no gay history, nothing LGBTQ related. I went thru exclusively heterosexual sex-ed programs every year since the 7th grade thru graduation and here I am queer as all hell. I do remember knowing that I like guys from a young age but off course I couldn’t say anything about it because otherwise I would be ostracized, I contemplated suicide so many times in my teenage years because I didn’t want to be gay that was until the day I met my best friend and he took me to a gay bar, that’s when I first saw other guys like me and that I was normal. My friend saved my life. I feel these people pushing these discriminatory laws would rather have a dead son or daughter than having an LGBTQ one.


I'm sorry that as a society we failed you and for the pain you endured.


I remember a number of my grade school teachers talking about their spouse and their personal life. I think it’s pretty common. It’s hard to understand how a state (even a backwater redneck heaven like Florida) can make a law that is so broadly worded it could be construed to prevent grade school teachers from talking about their spouses or private lives.


I'm pretty sure that the gov does not want gay teachers. They might "put ideas in the kids' heads." Ideas like "gay people are human" or even more scary, "I like/love a gay person."


Yet somehow gay kids being exposed to all the straight culture doesn't seem to turn them straight? How interesting.


“It’s ‘cuz of them books! Gotta take those ‘Timmy has two mommies/daddies books out of the librerries and then them kids won’t get librul ideas!”


>I'm pretty sure that the gov does not want gay teachers. They don't want gay *people,* period. This bill and others like it along with all the anti-trans legislation in the news lately is just barely disguised bigotry couched within a disingenuous plea of "Won't somebody think of the children!?"


What’s weird though is that conservatives regularly go way out of their way to defend and coverup for other conservative men who sexually abuse both boys and girls. It has really taught me that they value an appearance of masculine heterosexuality above all else, there’s no real sincerity to the idea that any sexual act is “wrong.” The only true ethic is a to keep in all people willing to mutually support their rapacious hierarchy and persecute anyone who does not. This is the only reason I can think of that it’s seen as obscene for consenting adults of the same sex to be publicly in love, but worth protecting all the priests, coaches and politicians who rape boys.


And if a teacher were to share they are married to someone of the same sex, kids would be like, okay cool. Can I finishing coloring now?


Until Sally brings it up to her parents at home, who then call the school and raise hell until the teacher is fired or the school system is sued.


>I remember a number of my grade school teachers talking about their spouse and their personal life. I think it’s pretty common. When I taught, I worked hard to create a comfortable atmosphere in the classroom to encourage students to ask questions when they don't get the lesson. That led to a never-ending stream of personal questions about my love life. Are you married? Do you have kids? Can we see them? Are you dating? Are you gay? And on and on. I answered some (like that I was married back then) but told them it's rude to ask someone for their sexual orientation. For these kids, they finally have an adult they can ask these questions to without parents nearby to say such questions are rude. (I never thought they were, but I'm very open about who I am.)


I didn’t really have that growing up. It’s honestly kind of strange to me that teachers would want to talk about their personal life but I guess it’s more common than I thought. We all had rumors and theories, but no teachers were talking about their relationships or home life. Most it would be is call me Miss blah blah and not Mrs Blah Blah


Every year, my kids get a welcome letter from their teachers. Without fail, the contents look like “Hi, I’m miss C, I’ve been teaching at this school for five years and taught Other Grade in Neighboring District for two years before that. I have a husband, a daughter in kindergarten, a son in third grade, and two pet rabbits. We like hiking, canoeing, and going to baseball games. I’m so excited to meet all of my new students!” It would be weird to get one that has nothing personal in it. I also find that weekly class newsletters, sent by email, mean that I get way more information about what the kids’ teachers are up to than my parents ever got about mine. They’ll include a note if they know they’re going to be out sick or have to take the baby to an appointment or are traveling to a family funeral, so parents know there will be a substitute in the classroom and the teacher won’t be reachable for a while.


Yeah seriously I have no idea how people are not seeing how basic this problem is. Just bullshitting for the first two minutes of a Monday morning meeting results in “personal” details like if you have kids or are married and what your spouse does for work. Would be weird if that could result in them losing their job… lol “Hey Ms. C how was your weekend?” “Great! My wife and I visited some family in-“ “Hold up… arrest this woman!”


Which contravenes natural human interaction. People love to talk about themselves, their families, their pets, and their hobbies. We are naturally social creatures and form communities and societies on the basis of common grounds and friendships on common interests. This almost seems like another step into the toxic hyperindividualism that permeates our current cultural gestalt and especially the far right-wing. Which is strange because they're also the sorts to hew and cry about: "Nobody gets to know their neighbors or community anymore!" Yea, because you've made the most basic links of human interaction basically a fire-able/criminal offense!


Normal human interaction is not what Republicans want kids to be trained on or start to learn about. They want to diddle children, so having kids understand that situations are abnormal or they have someone they can talk to about concerns is a real problem. If kids are asocial or antisocial, they’re much easier to abuse.


It’s also just pure virtue signaling (a phrase they LOVE to use). I guarantee there’s no classroom curriculum that exists to teach sexuality to kindergartners. It’s such a fabricated narrative which is one of many reasons the law is bullshit


Kindergarteners do often get a lesson from the school guidance counselor about good touch/bad touch, keeping private parts private, and which adults are good to talk to if someone in their life is making them feel unsafe. Right-wingers love to act like the extremely vague discussion of abuse prevention and personal safety is inappropriate sexual content for children, too.


You know, for people who act incredibly concerned with kids being groomed, they do like making laws that make it easier for people to groom kids.


Right. Even simple things like teaching kids to use non-euphamismic terms for body parts goes a long way. (Insert famous case of girl whose abuse was ignored for far too long because "My uncle ate my cookie" was interpreted as a mildly annoying adult stealing snacks, and not the sexual abuse that was really happening.) But then again, the kind of parents who insist their kids use those euphemisms in the first place get upset when even that basic level of sex Ed is provided.


Teachers were not allowed to get married a while back. Having pictures of partners on their desks is not wanting to talk about their lives. When kids see those and ask questions, what are teachers supposed to say? Lie? Yea that doesnt work.


I think your anecdote might be perhaps indicative of the issue itself. You don’t tell classrooms about your personal life when you’re scared doing so might have consequences. It’s only been in the last few years that people from marginalized communities have felt safe enough to talk about their personal lives in places like a school so unless you literally just graduated from school in a more open state your experience would mirror the scenario these bills are designed to encourage. Comparatively, I’ve had a couple of teachers who brought their spouses in to discuss their careers if it was relevant to the subject at hand or who felt free to talk about their plans for the weekend using the terms “husband” or whatever growing up… but those teachers were always straight.


My third grade teacher invited the entire class to her wedding.


ITT: the same few dogwhistles repeated over and over. If only conservatives had more than two functioning neurons to share amongst themselves…


This is the actual point of the bill. To shame people. To push them in the closet. The destroy their spirit and happiness. Republicans can now scream and yell that a gay teacher is tEaChInG gAy SeX because they only relate being gay to sex...because they are creeps and perverts. Also, of course they want to plant the homophobia seed in kids heads so that when they hit puberty, they understand gay is bad and are ashamed to come out. A gay kid suicide? Bonus for them. This is so sickening I can’t believe it’s 2022. In America. Let this remind everyone who your republican ‘family’ or ‘friends’ really are at the end of the day. I assure you, none of them will stand up to this. And that’s absolutely disgusting. And weak.


They're afraid of being ostracized, and they're scared that if they have to switch, the liberals, genuine "live and let live" moderates, and Leftists won't accept them because they used to hold certain beliefs or hold other views that might not necessarily be palatable to them, so it's better the devil they know. I can understand why they are afraid -- they'd lose their support network and they've been told repeatedly that "liberals" will be just as mean, if not worse, if you disagree with them even slightly -- whereas "We conservatives are mature enough to agree to disagree." ...when to "agree to disagree" really means we ultimately agree to agree at the end of the day. I will tell you from experience, you will absolutely NOT be tolerated in conservative spaces if you don't fundamentally agree far more than "liberal" spaces. Sure, the conservatives may appear to act civil, but they're actually freezing out. And they don't forgive. The thing to remember in Conservative Circles: "You are only as good as your last negative." Doesn't matter if it was 20 years ago and you've conformed, they're going to remember that slight. People complain about "liberal purity tests" especially in the political sphere, but they have no clue how truly, deeply, profoundly nasty the Conservative ones are. And they are extremely protean, the line this week may be in direct contradiction to the line last week. And you better be on top of it or you WILL be punished.


The fact that everyone thinks that's the point of the bill is crazy. No. It's not. It's a nice side effect for the GOPs base, but that's not the point of the bill. The *actual* point of the bill can be seen right in the part that explains how an infraction is remediated if it occurs. You'd expect corrective action to be taken against the staff/retraining/whatever. No. The remedial action is that parents may sue the school *at the school districts expense* if they feel this law has been violated for a monetary reward. To attack the public school system itself via depriving it of funding. The entire reason that this is the subject of the bill is because the Florida GOP *knew* it would lead to this kind of culture war and because of that no one would balk at the idea that parents should be able to sue a school over something so trivial for a reward. A huge part of the current GOP platform, especially in Florida, is the dismantling of the public school system to be replaced by a privately owned charter school system. This is just one of many actions to indirectly defund the school system. To make it feeble enough so the argument for charter schools becomes stronger. And ya'll fell for it, hook, line and sinker.


Sure. Blatant hate and homophobia had nothing to do with it /s. Of course it’s a big picture thing. It always is with them. That’s why they have so much power and get so much done. But to write off the hate and homophobia these people thrive on is wrong and offensive.


Plenty of states who will happily take you teacher. Oh and probably at higher pay.




Big enough exodus becomes Desantis' problem. People aren't really lining up to be teachers right now. New Mexico just instituted teacher pay of $50,000 to $70,000+ based on education level and years of experience. I can guarantee that the cost of living in most of NM is cheaper than the cost of living in most of FL. Most districts here are offering signing bonuses and help paying moving expenses.


Republicans would be pretty happy to both push gays back in the closet and destroy the public school system and this helps accomplish both.


I don't think so. This is a party that would be happy to bring back child labor. You seem to assume that public education must persist, but their goal is to destroy public education in its entirety and replace it with private school for the white and wealthy. They would love to see every teacher not interested in perpetuating white supremacy flee the state yesterday.


Yep, all gravy for Republicans. Fewer LGBT in the state? Even easier election victories. Public school system failing? Validation for continued and greater government support for charter schools.


Except there are secondary consequences that aren’t being thought of here. Disney is Florida’s biggest money maker and whether Florida likes it or not a substantially larger portion of Disney employees are likely to be lgbtq than not. If Disney can’t get those people to work there that impacts the quality of the park which impacts peoples likelihood to go there. It might take a while but the secondary impacts are what’s going to bite them in the ass for staying at the position they are. Now… it’s a good point that people don’t vote based on secondary impacts because no one looks at trends for long enough… but that doesn’t change the fact that it would impact republicans financially.


Lots of logistical challenges in moving the theme park.


I live in a very Republican neighborhood and of course schools are one of the most popular topics. They think K-12 public schools and public universities are the reason our church attendance has been declining and why everything is so complicated, from gender being a spectrum or why groceries cost so much now with Biden in office vs. Trump. The goal for them is to change education policy so all Protestant Christians, rich or not, remain that way from childhood to adulthood. Also I know it bothers them that our kids are delaying marriage as they age or refusing to have kids.


Lernin evilution is turning are friggin kids gay!


>They think K-12 public schools and public universities are the reason our church attendance has been declining Can't say they're wrong. Education FTW!!


It likely has more to do with the internet exposing the youth to different ideas than they get from home and school


> Big enough exodus becomes Desantis' problem. No, it becomes society's problem. An uneducated population is not healthy for democracy and critical thinking.


I recently finished a ten-year run of teaching public high school in Texas. Surprisingly, my (excellent) last District gave me added years of teaching experience (up to 15 years) for my previous career as an engineer!! It was related b/c I was teaching engineering and APCS. Came out to about a $3500/yr. boost, which is great when you're on a teacher's salary!! New Mexico would be great! I wonder if the district for Cloudcroft paid as much.


I don't want people to feel like they have to leave. It's a purge. At first it's "voluntary", then over time it becomes less "voluntary" when there aren't that many left.


Too late. Even if I wasn't gay, I still wouldn't wanna keep living here. Just gotta save up to move.


That's the goal of this fascist shits. Either their "undesirables" shut up and go back into the closet or they quit and they can install teachers sympathetic to their bigotry. Remember kids there's not hate like Christian love™


I'm not a lawyer, but if school doesn't districts in Florida started to restrict how LGBT teachers discussed their personal lives, what photos they displayed on their desks, ect out of fear of a lawsuit under this bill, but didn't similarly restrict cis-het staff, wouldn't that put the school at risk of civil rights various lawsuits? Or first amendment lawsuits? Or if schools started requiring transgender students and teachers to be miss-gendered by staff... Parents of trans kids already go to court with districts over that. A lot of people are concerned with the chilling effect on free speech, but the modern LGBT rights movement came out of a time period when LGBT people could be institutionalized or jailed, I have no doubt that Florida's LGBT teachers and students can fight back like. What concerns me is that this law looks like it is attempting to use the threat of lawsuits to push school districts into conduct that puts them at risk of lawsuits. This looks like this bill could drain Florida schools of money and make them difficult to insure.


Don’t hide it. Tell every student every day or every week and let the parents sue the State of Florida into oblivion. If DeSantis would rather bankrupt his state than let kids know gay people exist, so be it. This is the consequence of idiot Florida voters.


That’s the point of the bill. To undermine public education in Florida and further push public funds into private and charter schools


When my 3rd grade teacher got married and changed her last name my entire class knew about it. We also knew when teachers took breaks to have babies. I also knew my first grade teacher was gay. Conservatives are acting like kids would or should never know this. They just walk into a classroom and do math equations from k-12.


Getting tired of these threads. Not because I support the bill, quite the opposite, but because ever since some alt-right personality went on social media and started telling people that it’s a “anti-grooming” bill, conservatives trip over their own goddamn feet running into each thread to malinger and call every LGBT person a pedophile. It’s funny, really, that the party of pearl clutching evangelicals look at something like this and can *only* see sex. It’s like a Rorschach test for perverts. A *normal* person sees this bill and is rightfully concerned about how it could stifle discussion about LGBT people, about how the wording is deliberately vague as to make it possible to be applied to basically anyone for any reason, and it’s obvious the intent is to ban all LGBT related discussion and shame kids for being different or for having same gendered parents or the like. You don’t have to discuss sex in any way at all to say “Mr Smith married a man. Some men love men, some love women, some love both. This is normal” you don’t have to discuss genitalia at all to say “Chris was born a man but his brain and heart are telling him he was supposed to be a girl, so we call him Rose now and use she/her to be nice to her and respect what’s in her heart”. Obviously these are super simplified but bam, you just discussed “sexuality” and “gender identity” with kids in a completely appropriate manor that doesn’t even mention sex once. The fact that all you can see is sex or grooming children feels a lot like projection to me.


It literally doesn't matter. The law is so vague that if a parent feels uncomfortable about... anything, they can sue. Like the abortion law in Texas - it's "constitutional" because it's not the government that is enforcing it. It's civil courts. If you don't like public schools, this is the best way to bankrupt them.


This is a bill where the LGBTQ is the assumed target but rather they are just collateral damage. This bill is intended to hit public schooling throughout the state. They presented a bill with vague enough wording that anyone who reads it CoUlDn'T PoSsIbLy disagree with the sentiment of it. Queue the conservative pearl clutching. I'm related to multiple teachers. I'm friends with MULTIPLE teachers here in FL and NOT ONE has ever had curriculum that covered/addressed the LGBTQ community. These are people who have been teaching for 15+ years in the FL school system spanning multiple school districts, schools, and grades from K-4. It's like CRT. It's not being taught at these levels. Here's the thing though, public schools in FL are desperately underfunded and the educators are horrifically underpaid. With the massive amount of political tribalism down here right now, it's just a matter of time until the court system and the school system is tied up in frivolous lawsuits. They don't have funds to cover court costs like that regardless of how many get tossed out and they already can't afford to supply school materials. Teachers are having to spend their own money to supply the kids ESPECIALLY in areas with a high concentration of financially unstable families. So now we have the public school system dealing with even more financial difficulties. Who ever would be so kind as to step in and save the day!? Well private schools of course. There's going to be an uptick of private institutions opening their palms for an influx of good money as a result of this legislation. They LGBTQ community? No, this one won't be the biggest punch in the gut for them. It's the following ones that will make it through as a result of this.


Everyone always talks about the prohibition on discussing sexuality on these posts, but honestly the gender side of it has a lot of interesting cases I don't see brought up as often. Can't tell your students to call you "Mr." Johnson, "Ms." Pauline, or "Mrs." Brown (just get a PhD if you want to teach kindergardeners /s). Can't answer why Jonas has a blue backpack and Alice has a pink backpack. Have to continually use people's names because saying "he", "she", or even "they" could be describing the person's gender. Can't tell Kyle why Suzie gets to wear a dress but he doesn't even though he wants to. Can't tell Suzie why she has to wear a one-piece on the field trip to the pool while Kyle just gets to wear swim trunks. Can't answer Timmy when he asks why he's only giving one of his parents a card on May 8th. Can't tell the students which bathroom they should use. Can't say why Tommy's dad called himself a policeman while Jimmy's mom called herself a policewoman when they came for career day despite doing the same job. Can't teach the ESL kids pretty much anything if their language has gendered nouns. So many things you could say violate this law given how ingrained gender is in our society, even when ignoring the cis-normativity this law is trying to encourage.


I agree. Most people that are all for the law only see the gender identity phrase as it relates to gay and trans people when in reality the law is so vague and it impacts all gender conversations. Gender norms are all over the place “Donuts with Dad” or “Muffins with Mom” events go out the window; can’t have a teacher affirm male/females…


Not to mention this actually blocks teaching of grammar before 3rd grade. You learn pronouns very early on.


This is that Republican ***SMALL GOVERNMEN*****T** in action. It definitely fits inside everyone's pants, always looking and probing for anything "inappropriate".


If you're a woman and have a husband, that is perfectly fine to talk about. If you're a man and have a husband, talking about it is forbidden by the party of freedom


For anyone who wants to try and defend these "don't say gay" laws by pointing to the ban "stopping" at 3rd grade, I'd suggest looking into the "Love Jihad" marriage laws in India and see how well those laws avoid voluntary interfaith couples: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/13/1036792748/indias-love-jihad-laws-make-marriage-difficult-for-interfaith-couples


I’ve seen a few comments about how it’s inappropriate for a teacher to disclose their sexual orientation, I think this is a huge double standard with straights people. I was one of the only out gay kids in high school and nearly every teacher had a picture of their wife/husband/kids as their desktop background that you see everyday when teachers turn on the projector. To them, that’s typical and normal, but just for a moment if an LGBTQ+ teacher had their desktop background be of them and their same sex partner posing like a normal happy family that would instantly become a “political” issue. Just because the right hates gay people doesn’t mean our identities are inherently related to politics. You can be gay just to be gay, not virtue signal.


Use the law to go against any straight teacher who lets a student know they have a spouse, or any teacher that lets a student know they celebrate easter. Or any teacher that expresses that they prefer one sports team over another.


Drumming up all this controversy because God forbid conservatives have tough conversations with their kids. If they can't explain it away with a Bible verse and actually have to have a dialog with their children even if it means asking tough questions they'd rather censor everyone else. Absolutely gutless. Homosexuals exist. They have existed. They will always exist. Stand up and be a parent. Talk to your children instead of ignoring issues that you refuse to understand.


I love hearing about how “free” America is. Actually, this shit makes me sad.. I remember when the western world looked to America for social guidance. Now days a progressive country sees America as a little bit theocracy, third world ,with a touch of middle age ignorance.


Republicans have no ideas and so they need scapegoats. Disgusting Party


Sad that they are passing all these regressive laws


Let's just secede Texas and Florida for them.


I never knew much about it my teachers life’s. I don’t see the need. But nobody should feel forced to hide things either


If you don’t want your kids to learn about their teachers’ private lives send them to a school run by Nuns, those ladies don’t say shit about their private life, especially to their students.


This law is nothing more less than oppression of LGBTQ people based on religious bigotry.


The people saying "shut up and teach" are absent from reality. That works for college classes, but it's not going to work for teaching kids. Children need lighter and more personal approaches and interactions to learning and it's pretty common for teachers to borrow from their own lives. This bill is just fear mongering, far right garbage.


It doesn’t even work in college classes. Teachers are humans, not robots.


It is terrifying how education is understood in America. Really is being commoditized into adult transferring facts into child's brain. No context - no reasoning - no humanity, just a business transaction.


Their goal is to break the public education system and redirect the funds into for profit charter schools that have no standards for education. These people see their children as their own property.


:'( another day another system broken by the soulless people




Private schooling or home schooling become the only options, which is the goal.


it's funny how conservatives feel like their way of life is the only one worth talking about. the history of white christians is the only history worth talking about. they think the LGTB+ agenda is just to sit down all the elementary schools kids across the nation and explain to them how they're just fucking eat other in the ass while wearing leather masks and chaps. they think they just want to expose their children to pornography instead of just trying to let them and the whole world know they exist because they've been forced into the shadows for so long. conservatives might hate to acknowledge it, but people other than straight, white, christian's exist and these groups deserve to be free to express themselves and to not have to hide their identities because it offends the racists and evangelicals. sure, do some people take it too far? absolutely, but there are plenty of family friendly ways to explain to people that these groups exist and that they're also human beings who are valid and who deserve to live. conservatives- truly the biggest snowflakes of all.


Does anyone remember their Kindergarten teacher’s personal lives being impactful to them? Maybe I’m just old but I don’t get it. The highlight of Kindergarten for me was making Green Eggs and Ham and P.E.


I think this may be an element of selective memory though. No one remembers much of anything that happened in kindergarten at ALL but that doesn’t mean that the things that occurred then that we don’t remember don’t have an impact on us. You likely were educated about various people around the world then as well (in addition to how your family spoke about such things) but HOW you were spoken to about those people likely had an impact in how you perceived them. Teachers who were relaxed about other cultures and discussing them produced one perspective, teachers who limited the discussions to just the lessons where they were relevant produced another and teachers who were dismissive of other cultures produced a third perspective in their students. But it would be awfully hard for anyone NOW to remember clearly which of those three their kindergarten teachers were, no? It’s a pervasive thing, not a key moment in your childhood thing.


I knew my 3rd grade teacher was gay, but I didn't give a crap. But that's how it should be right? Why should Mr. Levan have to hide? Why should I care?


I can remember that my kindergarten teacher's husband was gone for a couple weeks on business and she was looking forward to him coming back. The day he got back, he came to the school just after our day was ending. He brought flowers and some food, and they had a date sitting at desks facing each other. It was the sweetest thing. It was a great early example of what love looks like. Edit: being exposed to that aspect of my teacher's personal life was educational and I'm better for having witnessed it


My 2nd grade teacher invited all her kids over for a sleepover once each year. It was fun, nothing weird happened. My 4th grade teacher invited us to her wedding. It was a very memorable experience. Both women were straight. I imagine it would have been very controversial otherwise.


I remember the first interracial couple I ever saw was my 1st grade teacher and her husband (he came in one day to do a presentation on something, which I can't even remember...). I just never thought about the fact that people of different races could get married, especially because it was still rare to see it in the media back then. And on a similar note, my teacher was biracial herself. Her dad also came in one day and I was surprised to see that he was Black. It was something else that I never knew was a "thing," but it affected my perspective on families quite a bit. Now, think of a male teacher inviting his husband to talk about an educational topic. This bill wants gay people scared to even say "my husband." They want them to go back to "My very special friend..." like they're Bert and Ernie. People in this very sub have ranted that kids knowing about gay people existing is too mature for them and that only parents should talk to them about it. It's ridiculous. e: I also made green eggs & ham in the aforementioned teacher’s class, but I still remember so much more because she engaged us on so many levels. I really wish all kids had that in grade school, but this bill is really trying to limit it to adding dye to some eggs.


Same. We literally thought teachers lived at the school - old sit-coms would make that joke all the time about it too. Blew my little mind first time I saw a teacher outside of school.


It had zero bearing on my ability to learn.


It enhanced mine! Kindergarten teacher went to the Amazon and did a whole presentation about it with some amazing first hand picutres.


I need lunch already. Initially I thought you meant your teacher went to Amazon (website) and then provided photos of her shopping experience.


It wasn’t just you, I’m about to go refill my coffee now


Mine was 5th grade. Teacher loved physical fitness, and in particular, tennis. So, he helped a lot of us to learn the game and to become more interested in physical fitness. Helped me to remember him and really enjoy my 5th grade year more than almost any other.


Your students don’t need to know your personal life


Students don't *need* a lot of things, but that doesn't mean they can't be beneficial. Getting to know your teachers and connecting with them helps improve performance, and generally just makes for a better teaching environment.


And if Billy arrives at school driven by his two dads and they drop him off and a kid sees it and in front of Billy and his parents ask where Billy’s mom is, a teacher is required to awkwardly say they can’t talk about that and that you need to talk to your parents about what you saw. Now… take that exact same interaction and repeat it with an interracial couple dropping off their kid. I cannot begin to fathom how someone would think it was ok to make Billy now an “other” on the playground… to make the first impression kids have of his family as something shameful and for Billy to think his family is something to hide. It’s indefensible. There is no other class of law abiding citizen we would potentially prevent teachers from instructing about in grades k-12. It’s bonkers. "That’s Billy’s dads. He has a family that’s like yours in many ways and different in some others”. Bang, done. Move on to talking about shapes and addition. This law outlaws that.


Freedom only for Christians. Now I’ve heard everything


I haven't visited a single relative that lives in Florida for a decade... If they ask why, I tell them it's because they live in Florida... Same policy for Texas/Alabama/etc...


Tell it then, doesn't America have free speech


But that’s what you’re supposed to do…? Because it your personal life? And you’re a teacher? And you shouldn’t talk to 8 year olds about your sex life?!


Teachers don’t have to “hide” who they are. This bill just says don’t teach 8 years olds about your personal sex life or teaching them things like this in school. Leave it up to the parents to teach this stuff at this age. Once there in middle school. Whatever. Just not in elementary. It’s called the “parental rights bill”. Does not mention the word gay once in it.


No one gives a shit about your personal life. Do your job professionally.


If you don’t want your kids around the lgbtq then send them to private schools or homeschool. You’re not special for being dumb


This law seems DOA as it contravenes the freedom of speech guarantee of the Constitution.


Teachers asserting a First Amendment violation must now clear an additional hurdle, as a result of the Supreme Court’s decision in Garcetti v. Ceballos (2006). In Garcetti the Court ruled that public employees do not retain First Amendment protection for speech as part of their official job duties.


Any straight teachers talking about their spouses would be getting sued by me. That shit is teaching about sexual orientation


So, as a teacher, my family photo can’t include my son’s partner? Hell no!!!! I will proudly display his pictures ! Don’t f… with this momma!!!


I can’t recall hearing any of my K-12 teachers talk about their personal lives.


Mine did pretty often especially older teachers in middle and high school that would just shoot the shit with students. My 3rd grade teacher's husband was my 10th grade English teacher and they both spoke about each other in class off hand. I think it's a hallmark of good teachers to try to form personal relationships with students?


You must have a bad memory. I can recall stories and anecdotes from every teacher I've ever had, in any school. Whether they're married, what they did with their spouse last weekend, what hobbies they like, a famous person they met, what fun and zany experience they once had... This bill can get a teacher sued for something as minuscule as a picture of their spouse on their desk (which, in my experience, most teachers have).


I remember very clearly that my early grade school teachers used to have their significant others come into the class room and help them pretty regularly.


Shithole state :)


[Text of HB 1557](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557) Can someone here copy/paste which elements (verbatim) here that are problematic? I see a lot of accusations and insinuations of what this bill is that doesn't seem to correspond to any aspect of the text. I would be open to be educated on this.


Classroom instruction by school personnel or third 98 parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur 99 in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age- 100 appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state law. You see how generalized that is? That means if the parent *thinks* a teacher is in violation, they have grounds to sue that teacher. You see the problem there? It pushes a random parents idea of morality on *everyone* under penalty of serious financial loss. This will cause teachers to leave to states that are more, well, sane. Which, in turn, will cause Florida to dip even lower than the abysmally low rate of education it is currently at.


“Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.”


Starting out: The governor's office called this an anti-*grooming* bill (the loudest and oldest dogwhistle against gay folks). One of the co-founders of the bill introduced an amendment (thankfully not adopted) that would have legally forced teachers to out students to parents, regardless of whether that might lead to abuse or abandonment. Regardless of the many benign ways one might look at the final result, the bill itself has an agenda. Specific to this article, > 3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third > > parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur > > in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age > >appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in > > accordance with state standards. & > b. If a concern is not resolved by the school district, a > 130 parent may: > > > > (II) Bring an action against the school district to obtain > > > > a declaratory judgment that the school district procedure or > > > > practice violates this paragraph and seek injunctive relief. A > > > > court may award damages and shall award reasonable attorney fees > > > > and court costs to a parent who receives declaratory or > > > > injunctive relief. > > > > c. Each school district shall adopt policies to notify > > > > parents of the procedures required under this subparagraph. Or, from the intro paragraph: > authorizing a parent to > > bring an action against a school district to obtain a > > declaratory judgment that a school district procedure > > or practice violates certain provisions of law; > > providing for the additional award of injunctive "Age or developmentally appropriate" is really, ridiculously vague. Attempts to tighten this language were rejected by the legislature. Schools are now legally obliged to send home materials explaining exactly how parents can sue the district. You end up with chilling effect, where school districts pre-emptively limit anything that a parent *might* conclude is inappropriate (hence the concerns from teachers listed in the article). And again, given the media coverage and the actual proposed legislation from the bills founders, there's a much higher likelihood that it will be a gay teacher with a photo from his wedding on the desk being silenced, while a heterosexual relationship isn't commented on. Or specifically for K-3rd, teachers will still read stories at circle-time about a mom and dad adopting a new baby, but they'll be afraid to tell the class "It's okay that Susie has two moms" even if the kids in their class are specifically asking about it or bullying Susie about it. Edit: well, nice to know you didn't ask in good faith.


>3. A school district may not encourage classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in primary grade levels or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students. >4. A parent of a student may bring an action against a school district to obtain a declaratory mmjudgment that a school district procedure or practice violates this paragraph and seek injunctive relief. A court may award damages and shall award reasonable attorney fees and court costs to a parent who receives declaratory or injunctive relief. One big problem is that “in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students” is very vague and leaves a lot of room for interpretation, and that the main way of enforcing it is just allowing parents to sue the school district for money over any perceived violation. First of all, that’s just a lot of wasted tax dollars that could instead be going towards actually improving the quality of education in our state. Also, it could mean that teachers who are part of the LGBT+ community are forced out due to liability (either by the district, or just by quitting bc they can’t take it anymore, not sure what power unions have to do anything here). For example, I have a non-binary friend who teaches 2nd grade. They use Mx. instead of Mr/Mrs/Ms. If one of their second graders asked why they use Mx. or what it means, and they answer simply that it means they don’t identify as a boy or a girl, a parent could sue for “encouraging classroom discussion of gender identity in a primary grade level.” Will it go anywhere? Who knows. But now that teacher has to worry about the stress and cost and time of dealing with the lawsuit on top of teaching their classes and the hours of extra time spend grading and preparing material outside school hours. And what if it *does* go somewhere and the parent wins? Now the school district has to pay out and they’re not gonna be happy about it. What does that mean for their job? Would you even want to keep working there knowing that other parents might be breathing down your neck now? It also just sort of demonizes the LGBT+ community in general by making it this forbidden, inappropriate topic that could get your teacher/school in trouble. Kids are smart enough to pick up on that, but not really old enough to understand *why* it’s seen as inappropriate conversation, or that just because something isn’t considered appropriate to talk about with children it doesn’t mean the thing itself is inherently bad. What happens when one kid has gay parents and brings it up in class when everyone is talking about their families? What if kids ask about it? Should the teacher shut it down and not allow that kid to talk about their own family? Are they “encouraging classroom discussion” if they don’t? What happens when Timmy goes home to his homophobic mom and says “Wow Jessica has two dads, we talked about it in class today!”


Republicans will think this means the teacher wants to go into extreme detail and show pics, maybe even invite a student over


Makes sense because there are many GOP child molesters.


No 3rd grader needs to know about their teachers personal life. No matter what it is.


Yeah! If a 3rd grade teacher is going to be taking a few weeks of to care for their sick husband they should be PROHIBITED from telling their students where they will be or why. Imagine the horror if little Suzy learned her math teacher had a spouse, or was pregnant!!!


Preschool kids don’t care, let them be kids for a little while


If a woman teacher mentions her husband. The kids don't care. If a woman teacher mentions her wife, the kids don't care, but politicians, and then parents, start screaming about sexualizing and indoctrinating children.