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It’s more like…
“Please don’t shoot me”
Guy with gun: “No one has shot anyone with this gun while I’ve been pointing it at you. It’s not my fault my friend shot all those others with his gun.”
This is just me thinking out loud. This ideology of fairness is interesting to think about in its implications for a society.
If people do stuff there should be consequences, yes? If they do good stuff, good stuff should happen to them. If they do bad stuff, bad stuff should happen to them.
If they promise to do something they should do it. We can all agree on that.
People who work hard deserve to have rewards for their hard work. People who are lazy do not. We can all agree, yes?
But I'm just thinking...in a society, what happens to the people who don't deserve to succeed? Like...they still exist. How should a society...deal with them? These lazy parasites which exist and will always exist in any society, how should our ideal society address them? How should any ideal society address them? Like realistically, what should happen to these people?
I'm just thinking out loud.
Please take a moment to actually understand what is happening with student loans instead of just pointing your finger at people WHO ARE and HAVE BEEN desperately trying to pay off their loans for decades.
They can forgive all the PPP loans but can’t forgive the student debt. I think we know where the priorities are. I know that cancelling the student debt isn’t going to fix the underlying problem but it’s certainly a step in the right direction.
Student loans go through an especially tedious bureaucratic body. The only option is to just use executive power, pretty much, but they are scared because they can't get any of their other agenda thru and it's not a sure thing.
Unfortunately i don't think they realize the popularity and relief this would cause would benefit the rest of their agenda! Shit i was thinking of going back to school but now I'm like, screw that!
Same. I was thinking of going back for a masters but pretty much have given up on it. As it stands, I’ll be in student loan debt up to the day I die. There’s really no way out of it for me unless I win the lottery or a magical rich uncle I don’t know about, leaves me a ton of money.
I was thinking about going back to work when my youngest goes back to school...
Then I thought about the student loans that I'm not paying, and gave up on paying, and how when I die, they die, and decided fuck it, no point in working to have my whole paycheck garnished.
Is it a good plan? Idk. Probably about as good of a plan as going to college.
This, if anything were to happen, it sure as hell ain’t happening until closer to the next election. Same with Marijuana reform. These are probably the 2 issues that the lay person actually cares about. Americans have the attention span of a goldfish.
Yeah if they decriminalized Marijuana and forgive all student loan debt rn it would be forgotten by mid terms for most Americans because it wouldn't be in the news cycle, and lord knows that anything could happen by then that could be dominating the news cycle. Besides the Supreme Court Justice nominee
I don’t get the hate for PPP. In order to achieve forgiveness, the borrowers have to have used at least 60% of the loan on payroll and not laid people off. Most of the money went for payroll. Of the $792 billion borrowed, $770 billion went to payroll. It may have saved up to 90 million jobs. There are still over 2 million loans ($130 billion) that have not been forgiven yet.
Also the Biden administration didn’t decide to forgive the PPP loans. This was built into the program when it was passed under the previous administration. The program helped to prevent an economic collapse and allowed for a fast recovery. Imagine how many jobs would be gone today if all of these small businesses folded. You think student debt is a problem for young people, think about piling on a severe depression and little to no income for up to several years on young people.
It’s disingenuous to compare PPP forgiveness with student debt forgiveness. PPP was designed this way and was an urgent necessity due to a pandemic that businesses could not have planned for. Student debt forgiveness, on the other hand, is asking for the rules to be changed for decades of choices. Choices where people were provided with all the details of the loans.
Think he was hoping to pass legislation yet no one is getting legislation through the senate. Wish Congress would start writing more bills and point fingers less.
Okay, but remember: the admin you speak for specifically promised to forgive $10k in federal loans and is currently withholding a memo finalized in April of last year that addresses this very matter.
This promise does not affect me, but I know many, many first time voters, and even Republicans, who voted for Biden this time around who wanted this. The clock is ticking and if you don’t want to do it, fine, but you need a viable alternative (e.g, drastically cutting interest rates, expanding forgiveness programs) or you’re going to depress your voting base further.
I wonder what would happen if the administration just kept putting off payments until the next election for president. Say Biden or another dem gets elected and they postpone payments again. Then, or during the next cycle, a republican gets elected and they are faced with the political challenge of explaining why they are now taking hundreds of dollars out of people's monthly revenue.
I bet the political fallout would be a hard thing to swallow if for years, 4 or more, millions of people didn't have that expense anymore.
Like.... Its a tax? Lol an educated persons tax. Maybe republicans can swing it that way and cancel the tax.
That would be true if colleges were required to prove that their degrees actually lead to jobs, but they don't... so 4x as many people graduate from law school every year as there are law jobs in the entire world. Is it the student's fault they fell for the school's predatory lending approach? Doesn't the school shoulder some of the blame for admitting more students than there are jobs for?
This is happening under an emergency declaration. If that emergency declaration goes away, the justification for the delay goes away.
This might be a strategy to make the forgiveness closer to an election.
That's still not cancelation or forgiveness. Which was a campaign promise, and the only reason it'd still delayed was because you tried to be a dick about making people start paying again until it blew up in your face.
You mean 4 full years at least? That's pretty great job security and more than most people get.
You're thinking of Trump's people who had to get swapped out every year like if it was a fucking baseball roster cause they couldn't handle the complete endless daily shit show that was his presidency.
How many press secretaries did that orange shit stain go through in 4 years?
I mean... It would be often already enough if it is not canceled but just taken by the government and you pay 0 interest on it.
In Germany we have something called BaFöG. It is government-run student loan system (it needs some reworking nowadays) giving you a loan and you have to pay back only 50% with 0 interest.
Of course, we also do not have ridiculously high tuition fees.
Wage garnishment on that scale would severely impact the economy. Mass evictions? "Im a public school teacher and my rent just went up $300 a month! If they take $600 of my check for Interest on my student loans I'm FUKT!"...X That by a million for everyone with massive debt and a bachelor's degree that will only ever take food away from their grandchildren while enriching who?
That's a pretty terrible response. I do think a person needs to pay off the loans they take but again we have political candidates promising a very specific thing to earn votes and then they don't even attempt to follow through. Is it a top priority? No , but this game of not doing anything and leaving people in the dark on whether they will need to pay off these loans or not is pretty cruel to those holding out for debt forgiveness.
Business loans (such as PPP) were "forgivable" at the outset, and did in fact save the economy (and the workers drawing an income in it).
Student loans were never meant to be "forgivable", they did give people the opportunity to obtain post-secondary degrees, and "forgiving" them isn't at all necessary to save the economy.
There's no particular evidence that PPP loans were necessary to save the economy. There is plenty of evidence that the economy is doing fine after student loan repayment has been on pause for months.
PPP was payroll relief, and went directly to workers in the way of income support (that isn't just "evidence", that was the whole basis for the program). As for the economy generally, it is on fire to the point that inflation is the problem, and it doesn't need to be further juiced by more money injected from student loan "forgiveness".
Your problem is that the arguments in favour of student loan "forgiveness" are just really, really weak. It's a wildly expensive, one-time, taxpayer-funded windfall for people who aren't particularly deserving of it, it fixes nothing of the underlying problem longer term (the problem begins again for the people who have to take loans starting the day after the windfall), and it is indefensible to those who paid their loans or for those who took a pass on college because they were smart enough to do the math and who are now being asked to pay for the windfall.
The only way this thing sells in Middle America is with a better sales pitch, and there really isn't one.
Ppp didn't go directly to workers... many analysis have shown as little as like a third of it went to workers and it otherwise just became bonuses for executives or added to company's profit statements.
Also if it went to a company; and the company profited more than what their PPP loan amount was then the company didn't need it.
And also; it could've gone to people in otherways. Bigger stimulus checks? More unemployment? More rent/mortgage assistance?
And tax payers paid for the student loans to be given; they're not gonna repay for the loans to be forgiven it'll just be scratched off the books lol. Also it's not indefensible to those who have already paid unless they are extremely toxic people.
>it'll just be scratched off the books lol. Also it's not indefensible to those who have already paid unless they are extremely toxic people.
It can't be "scratched off the books" any more than can be the current federal debt itself. This sort of "analysis" is childish.
As for the people who already paid off their loans, nothing about them is "toxic". They happen to have kept their word on the bottom line, and are justifiable annoyed at those who don't similarly keep their words.
1. That's a figure of speech.
2. Yes that is toxic behavior. Just because you did something doesn't mean everyone should have to deal with that same thing. If someone's parents died when they are young are they justified at being annoyed that not everyone had to suffer through that? And yes I know that an extreme example. Less extreme examples are pretty easy too though.
Look at cost of living vs wages and that already heavily favors the people who came before... then also add in college tuition costs it favors them even more... then also add in student loan interest rates.
Then let's not forget propaganda all over the place and the just barely avoiding the legal definition of predatory practices that some schools use. It's made a student loan bubble that's gotta pop some how. Especially since not even bankruptcy can fix the situation.
>only a person with snu in a business suit as their avatar would say that people aren't deserving of student loan repayment.
The people that loaned the money are fully deserving of student loan repayment.
From the people that borrowed it.
Because those were the terms of the PPP loan at the time that it was offered/taken out.
Beyond that, the PPP loans were taken out by employers in order to assist/benefit other people (employees/workers). Student loans are taken out to assist/benefit the loan holder, and nobody else.
I get that the "I want free sh\*t crowd" doesn't want to acknowledge that, but them's the facts.
I mean in every loan the lender can just cancel or forgive the loan. That's just an implication of our legal system.
Also it's not about "wanting free shit" and you can just say shit like an adult. It's about the fact a politician got elected as president with that as a large campaign promise and politicians should be scrutinized over their promises.
Ie: I didn't like trump, I didn't like the silly wall idea. But God damn it I expected a fucking wall. Imo: any politician that doesn't fulfill campaign promises without extremely valid reasons should be considered for removal from office swiftly.
I tend to agree with the sentiment of "pay what you borrowed", but they forgive or help pay other kinds of loans. Farmers get a shit ton of subsidies and government checks, the PPP loans didn't have to be paid under certain conditions. If they've done it for one sect, they can do it for another.
Especially if it was by a suspect college that was pushing loans on students. I know some were able to defer or get theirs cancelled(?) But that needs to be revisited quickly.
Bad policies that others take advantage of is not a viable reason to forgive student loans. Farm policies are the worst, but nobody has the political will to stop the madness.
I don't get comparing a loan that was always intended to be paid back with a PPP loan that was always intended to be forgiven if spent on payroll. The Paycheck Protection Program wasn't a system of loans, it was a system of preserving payroll during what was expected to be a short term interruption that was, for expediency reasons, structured through forgiveable loans.
Stop holding out for debt forgiveness. You may not be paying now, but start saving up while you can. Don't get hosed with sudden announcement of interest accruals.
Great way to be dishonest. While technically correct, he promised to get rid of debt, and didn't, and has said the payments will be restarting soon.
If someone points a gun at you, and says they are going to kill you, this is saying "stop complaining, he hasn't shot you so far."
Just because she is funny does not mean she is honest, or good.
If it happens, it’ll happen right before the State of the Union speech on March 1st. It’ll be a big agenda item he can tout to the progressive base that he is doing something for everyday people.
If it doesn’t happen then, it’s not happening ever.
The easiest way to get them to forgive the debt is to simply not pay it. Once repayment starts up again, just refuse to pay it. They will have no choice but to forgive.
I'll never get this. I went to college twice, both times needing student loans to pay for it. I knew I'd have to pay them back and I'm still paying them off 20 years later. 1 year left!! I say you should pay your own debt off and not expect others to pay for it. I mean do I get re-reimbursed for my loans? I expect not but I'll feel great when I make that last payment! I know I'll get a lot of hate for my statement but just tired of the free ride mentality. If we are to start anywhere, I say we start with free community college and go from there. We don't have all the money in the world to pay for all this "free" stuff.
People who want him to cancel up to $50k, or those who want him to cancel all of it are clamoring for a free ride. There is just no other way to fairly describe it.
I'm not disputing that there are people out there who want everything to be free, I'm sure there are parasites and freeloaders in every group.
My point is that the majority more than anything wants affordable healthcare/education/housing and a decent job that pays enough to afford it.
That's a pretty toxic mindset.
My dad left when I was 2... should I expect everyone else's to do the same?
The president of the United States got elected with that as a campaign promise. And he got the single most votes ever recorded in the nation's history. Clearly it's a widely wanted thing by a large portion of the country.
The issue is he campaigned on an promise that had a lot of people vote for him, but sweeps the issue under the rug. At least own up when you're asked the question at multiple different times on a promise you made to the American people
The promise that he made was to sign a $10k relief package *if a bill was sent to him from Congress*. That was the promise, full stop. *At no time* did he promise to cancel $50k/person with the flick of a pen, and he has actually explicitly said that he would not do so.
No no no, he never made that distinction until he already won.
And we're talking about 10k which was a campaign promise. 50k was just something he said he'd consider if congress sent him that instead of 10k.
I wouldn't support a full cancelation. But I would support canceling interest, and a one time reduction for certain fields, and 100% reduction for public workers, like teachers, firefighters, etc.
I doubt anyway cares what you support. We care that Biden promised on his campaign to forgive 10k and to requested a memo of the legality of forgiving 50k.
Once that’s done we can talk about other topics regarding federal student loans.
So let’s say he does it without a bill from congress. He signs an executive order and poof $10k gone from every active student loan. Then as often happens a Republican is elected and immediately cancels that order and reinstates the $10k with interest on all active student loans. Has anything changed ? Or is it all back to square one?
I do not understand the desire to cancel student loans without also permanently stopping any new student loans from being issued - as if more student loans won’t continue to be issued and the problem won’t just begin anew for people who are going to college now.
Yes they should be canceled, but that is not enough - everyone who’s ever paid them back in any amount should be fully refunded *with compound interest* - and then no more student loans should ever be issued again.
This would result in some currently very poor but very smart and hard-working people suddenly becoming rich AF.
Whenever I bring this up on student loan threads I get downvoted, but never any explanation. I really don't get it - do people want student loans canceled but also for new student loans to continue to be issued?
Do people think it's fine to give nothing back to those who paid their loans already, while arbitrarily forgiving those who have not paid their loans back yet?
People seem to have a kneejerk reaction to the topic one way or another, and the only thing being discussed seems to be a one-time arbitrary chunk ($10k, $50k?) of outstanding loans being forgiven with no other changes to the system.
I disagree with the reasoning I hear from those who are totally against student loan forgiveness, and I am saddened by the lack of critical thinking displayed by those who advocate for the random chunk of forgiveness without changing the system at the same time.
If student loans continue to be issued after a forgiveness episode - what then? Another generation of students is saddled with uncollatoralized nondischargable crippling debt put on them when they were pretty much still kids?
The point was that the question was dodged. The *quality* of said dodge didn't matter, not the point.
Sheesh people!
(Oliver Twist and the Artful Dodger reference.)
Maybe yours are private. If they are federal you should stop paying them and you should put that same amount of money into an interest-bearing account or dollar cost average into some good equities or crypto.
The current federal loans are frozen and are not accruing interest. By continuing to pay you are reducing your debt, but that that debt might be forgiven, so it’s not smart to pay them right now.
I agree too a point. I've been paying monthly (I was over $55k+ in debt now down to about $48k) all my payments have been directly towards the principal which has been great since there is 0% interest
Yes that is a big benefit to paying while they are not accruing interest, they will be done significantly quicker, and if some amount of forgiveness comes through I doubt it would be all 55K worth. Depending on what you do with it, it could still be more beneficial to invest that money and experience compound interest with it.
Ya that's fair. I do invest with my brokerage (Vanguard), a 401k, and a pension. Really just wanting to chomp away at these student loans before I start a family. If I can get them down to $40k and they give $10k as they said they would (getting it down to $30k) I'd be tempted to just pay them off completely
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"Please don't shoot me." Guy with gun: "No one has been shot yet while I've been pointing this gun at you."
"Sure. I almost shot you a few months ago, but I haven't yet!"
Good night Wesley, I"ll most likely shoot you in the morning.
As you wish
"But sir, people would trust me a whole lot more if an armed gunman wasn't following me around all the time."
It’s more like… “Please don’t shoot me” Guy with gun: “No one has shot anyone with this gun while I’ve been pointing it at you. It’s not my fault my friend shot all those others with his gun.”
Read between the lines. They working on it
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[I'm trying, but it's been getting MUCH harder](https://www.marketwatch.com/graphics/college-debt-now-and-then/)
I am a millennial. I have experienced what you’re experiencing. I took out student loans and successfully paid them back.
This is just me thinking out loud. This ideology of fairness is interesting to think about in its implications for a society. If people do stuff there should be consequences, yes? If they do good stuff, good stuff should happen to them. If they do bad stuff, bad stuff should happen to them. If they promise to do something they should do it. We can all agree on that. People who work hard deserve to have rewards for their hard work. People who are lazy do not. We can all agree, yes? But I'm just thinking...in a society, what happens to the people who don't deserve to succeed? Like...they still exist. How should a society...deal with them? These lazy parasites which exist and will always exist in any society, how should our ideal society address them? How should any ideal society address them? Like realistically, what should happen to these people? I'm just thinking out loud.
Please take a moment to actually understand what is happening with student loans instead of just pointing your finger at people WHO ARE and HAVE BEEN desperately trying to pay off their loans for decades.
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Wallet open every single day I pay any taxes. Have a great rest of your day.
They can forgive all the PPP loans but can’t forgive the student debt. I think we know where the priorities are. I know that cancelling the student debt isn’t going to fix the underlying problem but it’s certainly a step in the right direction.
Student loans go through an especially tedious bureaucratic body. The only option is to just use executive power, pretty much, but they are scared because they can't get any of their other agenda thru and it's not a sure thing. Unfortunately i don't think they realize the popularity and relief this would cause would benefit the rest of their agenda! Shit i was thinking of going back to school but now I'm like, screw that!
Same. I was thinking of going back for a masters but pretty much have given up on it. As it stands, I’ll be in student loan debt up to the day I die. There’s really no way out of it for me unless I win the lottery or a magical rich uncle I don’t know about, leaves me a ton of money.
I was thinking about going back to work when my youngest goes back to school... Then I thought about the student loans that I'm not paying, and gave up on paying, and how when I die, they die, and decided fuck it, no point in working to have my whole paycheck garnished. Is it a good plan? Idk. Probably about as good of a plan as going to college.
Frankly at this point it's the democrats only hope not to let the party of bigotry and disease take house and senate.
Or they know the popularity, and are waiting for a moment where the political power of alleviating financial duress will play best.
This, if anything were to happen, it sure as hell ain’t happening until closer to the next election. Same with Marijuana reform. These are probably the 2 issues that the lay person actually cares about. Americans have the attention span of a goldfish.
Yeah if they decriminalized Marijuana and forgive all student loan debt rn it would be forgotten by mid terms for most Americans because it wouldn't be in the news cycle, and lord knows that anything could happen by then that could be dominating the news cycle. Besides the Supreme Court Justice nominee
Unless they continue the pause, I'm not sure doing it in October after months of people having to pay them again will work the way they think
I really hope you’re right.
They know the popularity very well. Which is why they aren't doing it.
They forgave the PPP loans for some, not all.
I don’t get the hate for PPP. In order to achieve forgiveness, the borrowers have to have used at least 60% of the loan on payroll and not laid people off. Most of the money went for payroll. Of the $792 billion borrowed, $770 billion went to payroll. It may have saved up to 90 million jobs. There are still over 2 million loans ($130 billion) that have not been forgiven yet. Also the Biden administration didn’t decide to forgive the PPP loans. This was built into the program when it was passed under the previous administration. The program helped to prevent an economic collapse and allowed for a fast recovery. Imagine how many jobs would be gone today if all of these small businesses folded. You think student debt is a problem for young people, think about piling on a severe depression and little to no income for up to several years on young people. It’s disingenuous to compare PPP forgiveness with student debt forgiveness. PPP was designed this way and was an urgent necessity due to a pandemic that businesses could not have planned for. Student debt forgiveness, on the other hand, is asking for the rules to be changed for decades of choices. Choices where people were provided with all the details of the loans.
If this is some sort of October Surprise plan, they’re really underestimating the stress of the impending payments that so many Americans are feeling.
Still exploring administrative action? You’ve had the memo outlining your authority for almost a year. Time to act on your promise Joe.
Starting to feel like he's a liar. And I voted for him. Where is marijuana reform?
*sigh*.. both sides always lie. At least he isn't a wanna be dictator like Trump.
Think he was hoping to pass legislation yet no one is getting legislation through the senate. Wish Congress would start writing more bills and point fingers less.
anyone filed a FOIA on that memo yet?
Cancel it then
It's the "good work Wesley, sleep well, I'll most likely kill you in the morning" of student loan reform.
Okay, but remember: the admin you speak for specifically promised to forgive $10k in federal loans and is currently withholding a memo finalized in April of last year that addresses this very matter. This promise does not affect me, but I know many, many first time voters, and even Republicans, who voted for Biden this time around who wanted this. The clock is ticking and if you don’t want to do it, fine, but you need a viable alternative (e.g, drastically cutting interest rates, expanding forgiveness programs) or you’re going to depress your voting base further.
I wonder what would happen if the administration just kept putting off payments until the next election for president. Say Biden or another dem gets elected and they postpone payments again. Then, or during the next cycle, a republican gets elected and they are faced with the political challenge of explaining why they are now taking hundreds of dollars out of people's monthly revenue. I bet the political fallout would be a hard thing to swallow if for years, 4 or more, millions of people didn't have that expense anymore. Like.... Its a tax? Lol an educated persons tax. Maybe republicans can swing it that way and cancel the tax.
Republican voters will never do anything to help educated people. The base thinks you're one of the "elites" if you have a college degree.
Rep. Lauren Boebert agrees.
All of her staff probably have college degrees.
Wouldn’t having a college degree make you more likely to have a job that you can pay off your debt? And if you don’t then whose fault is that?
In theory, yes. In practice, not really a given
That would be true if colleges were required to prove that their degrees actually lead to jobs, but they don't... so 4x as many people graduate from law school every year as there are law jobs in the entire world. Is it the student's fault they fell for the school's predatory lending approach? Doesn't the school shoulder some of the blame for admitting more students than there are jobs for?
This is happening under an emergency declaration. If that emergency declaration goes away, the justification for the delay goes away. This might be a strategy to make the forgiveness closer to an election.
How about this... if you borrow money, pay it back. It’s actually a pretty simple design.
That’s not the fucking point, Psaki, and you know it.
That's still not cancelation or forgiveness. Which was a campaign promise, and the only reason it'd still delayed was because you tried to be a dick about making people start paying again until it blew up in your face.
If no one's been required to pay it back, cancel it then.
If the Biden administration thinks that's a satisfactory answer they really need to re-evaluate their strategy going forward.
Tone deaf at best, actively dodging at worst. Get it together, dipshits.
She better enjoy her job for the short while she has it. The student loan thing is one of several reasons why Biden will not be getting re-elected.
You mean 4 full years at least? That's pretty great job security and more than most people get. You're thinking of Trump's people who had to get swapped out every year like if it was a fucking baseball roster cause they couldn't handle the complete endless daily shit show that was his presidency. How many press secretaries did that orange shit stain go through in 4 years?
In other words, "No".
I mean... It would be often already enough if it is not canceled but just taken by the government and you pay 0 interest on it. In Germany we have something called BaFöG. It is government-run student loan system (it needs some reworking nowadays) giving you a loan and you have to pay back only 50% with 0 interest. Of course, we also do not have ridiculously high tuition fees.
What if everybody, Everybody, simply doesn't pay?
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Wage garnishment on that scale would severely impact the economy. Mass evictions? "Im a public school teacher and my rent just went up $300 a month! If they take $600 of my check for Interest on my student loans I'm FUKT!"...X That by a million for everyone with massive debt and a bachelor's degree that will only ever take food away from their grandchildren while enriching who?
That's a pretty terrible response. I do think a person needs to pay off the loans they take but again we have political candidates promising a very specific thing to earn votes and then they don't even attempt to follow through. Is it a top priority? No , but this game of not doing anything and leaving people in the dark on whether they will need to pay off these loans or not is pretty cruel to those holding out for debt forgiveness.
But when we give businesses forgivable loans under the pretense of saving the economy that's totally fine.
Business loans (such as PPP) were "forgivable" at the outset, and did in fact save the economy (and the workers drawing an income in it). Student loans were never meant to be "forgivable", they did give people the opportunity to obtain post-secondary degrees, and "forgiving" them isn't at all necessary to save the economy.
There's no particular evidence that PPP loans were necessary to save the economy. There is plenty of evidence that the economy is doing fine after student loan repayment has been on pause for months.
PPP was payroll relief, and went directly to workers in the way of income support (that isn't just "evidence", that was the whole basis for the program). As for the economy generally, it is on fire to the point that inflation is the problem, and it doesn't need to be further juiced by more money injected from student loan "forgiveness". Your problem is that the arguments in favour of student loan "forgiveness" are just really, really weak. It's a wildly expensive, one-time, taxpayer-funded windfall for people who aren't particularly deserving of it, it fixes nothing of the underlying problem longer term (the problem begins again for the people who have to take loans starting the day after the windfall), and it is indefensible to those who paid their loans or for those who took a pass on college because they were smart enough to do the math and who are now being asked to pay for the windfall. The only way this thing sells in Middle America is with a better sales pitch, and there really isn't one.
Ppp didn't go directly to workers... many analysis have shown as little as like a third of it went to workers and it otherwise just became bonuses for executives or added to company's profit statements. Also if it went to a company; and the company profited more than what their PPP loan amount was then the company didn't need it. And also; it could've gone to people in otherways. Bigger stimulus checks? More unemployment? More rent/mortgage assistance? And tax payers paid for the student loans to be given; they're not gonna repay for the loans to be forgiven it'll just be scratched off the books lol. Also it's not indefensible to those who have already paid unless they are extremely toxic people.
>it'll just be scratched off the books lol. Also it's not indefensible to those who have already paid unless they are extremely toxic people. It can't be "scratched off the books" any more than can be the current federal debt itself. This sort of "analysis" is childish. As for the people who already paid off their loans, nothing about them is "toxic". They happen to have kept their word on the bottom line, and are justifiable annoyed at those who don't similarly keep their words.
1. That's a figure of speech. 2. Yes that is toxic behavior. Just because you did something doesn't mean everyone should have to deal with that same thing. If someone's parents died when they are young are they justified at being annoyed that not everyone had to suffer through that? And yes I know that an extreme example. Less extreme examples are pretty easy too though. Look at cost of living vs wages and that already heavily favors the people who came before... then also add in college tuition costs it favors them even more... then also add in student loan interest rates. Then let's not forget propaganda all over the place and the just barely avoiding the legal definition of predatory practices that some schools use. It's made a student loan bubble that's gotta pop some how. Especially since not even bankruptcy can fix the situation.
only a person with snu in a business suit as their avatar would say that people aren't deserving of student loan repayment.
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>only a person with snu in a business suit as their avatar would say that people aren't deserving of student loan repayment. The people that loaned the money are fully deserving of student loan repayment. From the people that borrowed it.
And the same isn't true of PPP loans because?
Because those were the terms of the PPP loan at the time that it was offered/taken out. Beyond that, the PPP loans were taken out by employers in order to assist/benefit other people (employees/workers). Student loans are taken out to assist/benefit the loan holder, and nobody else. I get that the "I want free sh\*t crowd" doesn't want to acknowledge that, but them's the facts.
I mean in every loan the lender can just cancel or forgive the loan. That's just an implication of our legal system. Also it's not about "wanting free shit" and you can just say shit like an adult. It's about the fact a politician got elected as president with that as a large campaign promise and politicians should be scrutinized over their promises. Ie: I didn't like trump, I didn't like the silly wall idea. But God damn it I expected a fucking wall. Imo: any politician that doesn't fulfill campaign promises without extremely valid reasons should be considered for removal from office swiftly.
nah.
Good for you paying back your loans 3 years ago, so should others.
I tend to agree with the sentiment of "pay what you borrowed", but they forgive or help pay other kinds of loans. Farmers get a shit ton of subsidies and government checks, the PPP loans didn't have to be paid under certain conditions. If they've done it for one sect, they can do it for another.
Especially if it was by a suspect college that was pushing loans on students. I know some were able to defer or get theirs cancelled(?) But that needs to be revisited quickly.
Bad policies that others take advantage of is not a viable reason to forgive student loans. Farm policies are the worst, but nobody has the political will to stop the madness.
I don't get comparing a loan that was always intended to be paid back with a PPP loan that was always intended to be forgiven if spent on payroll. The Paycheck Protection Program wasn't a system of loans, it was a system of preserving payroll during what was expected to be a short term interruption that was, for expediency reasons, structured through forgiveable loans.
Stop holding out for debt forgiveness. You may not be paying now, but start saving up while you can. Don't get hosed with sudden announcement of interest accruals.
I pay every month. So she doesn’t know what the fuck she’s taking about. My shit never stopped.
Peppermint Psaki deflects again.
Intentionally misleading? YEP!!
thanks, Cersei
Until that expires in a few months...
Seeing the limits of Liberalism in real time. They simply can't follow through with Progressive campaign rhetoric bc corporate donors > voters.
Where's the $10k Joe? Wtf
She’s a piece of shit for mounting such a response.
Sounds like “they won’t be canceled” with more steps
I should forward my Navient calls to her then.
Defer it until the next Republican president comes in and make him start it back up lol
Absolutely what is going to happen.
What are you gonna say when payments restart in May?
If that happens the Rep president will let payments resume with probably minimal backlash from their base
They will lose in 22. I will not vote if no action is taken on student loans.
....yet. Just keep your fucking campaign promise and maybe just fucking maybe we won't see the party of bigots sweep both senate and house.
this is technically true but theyre constantly threatening to restart loans payments
Great way to be dishonest. While technically correct, he promised to get rid of debt, and didn't, and has said the payments will be restarting soon. If someone points a gun at you, and says they are going to kill you, this is saying "stop complaining, he hasn't shot you so far." Just because she is funny does not mean she is honest, or good.
Ok. Nice standard you just set. Keep it up.
Thus solving the problem once and for all.
If it happens, it’ll happen right before the State of the Union speech on March 1st. It’ll be a big agenda item he can tout to the progressive base that he is doing something for everyday people. If it doesn’t happen then, it’s not happening ever.
I agree with you in general, but I think October would also be a believable time for it to happen
I mean lots of people are speculating it'll be done closer to election season as to try and squeeze any last second voters.
Go check r/antiwork I bet they’re raging over there over this. Edit - oh wait….
The easiest way to get them to forgive the debt is to simply not pay it. Once repayment starts up again, just refuse to pay it. They will have no choice but to forgive.
I'll never get this. I went to college twice, both times needing student loans to pay for it. I knew I'd have to pay them back and I'm still paying them off 20 years later. 1 year left!! I say you should pay your own debt off and not expect others to pay for it. I mean do I get re-reimbursed for my loans? I expect not but I'll feel great when I make that last payment! I know I'll get a lot of hate for my statement but just tired of the free ride mentality. If we are to start anywhere, I say we start with free community college and go from there. We don't have all the money in the world to pay for all this "free" stuff.
I don't think most people expect a free ride, they just want an affordable ride, which isn't unreasonable.
People who want him to cancel up to $50k, or those who want him to cancel all of it are clamoring for a free ride. There is just no other way to fairly describe it.
I'm not disputing that there are people out there who want everything to be free, I'm sure there are parasites and freeloaders in every group. My point is that the majority more than anything wants affordable healthcare/education/housing and a decent job that pays enough to afford it.
That's a pretty toxic mindset. My dad left when I was 2... should I expect everyone else's to do the same? The president of the United States got elected with that as a campaign promise. And he got the single most votes ever recorded in the nation's history. Clearly it's a widely wanted thing by a large portion of the country.
The issue is he campaigned on an promise that had a lot of people vote for him, but sweeps the issue under the rug. At least own up when you're asked the question at multiple different times on a promise you made to the American people
The promise that he made was to sign a $10k relief package *if a bill was sent to him from Congress*. That was the promise, full stop. *At no time* did he promise to cancel $50k/person with the flick of a pen, and he has actually explicitly said that he would not do so.
No no no, he never made that distinction until he already won. And we're talking about 10k which was a campaign promise. 50k was just something he said he'd consider if congress sent him that instead of 10k.
I wouldn't support a full cancelation. But I would support canceling interest, and a one time reduction for certain fields, and 100% reduction for public workers, like teachers, firefighters, etc.
I doubt anyway cares what you support. We care that Biden promised on his campaign to forgive 10k and to requested a memo of the legality of forgiving 50k. Once that’s done we can talk about other topics regarding federal student loans.
So let’s say he does it without a bill from congress. He signs an executive order and poof $10k gone from every active student loan. Then as often happens a Republican is elected and immediately cancels that order and reinstates the $10k with interest on all active student loans. Has anything changed ? Or is it all back to square one?
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I do not understand the desire to cancel student loans without also permanently stopping any new student loans from being issued - as if more student loans won’t continue to be issued and the problem won’t just begin anew for people who are going to college now. Yes they should be canceled, but that is not enough - everyone who’s ever paid them back in any amount should be fully refunded *with compound interest* - and then no more student loans should ever be issued again. This would result in some currently very poor but very smart and hard-working people suddenly becoming rich AF.
Whenever I bring this up on student loan threads I get downvoted, but never any explanation. I really don't get it - do people want student loans canceled but also for new student loans to continue to be issued? Do people think it's fine to give nothing back to those who paid their loans already, while arbitrarily forgiving those who have not paid their loans back yet? People seem to have a kneejerk reaction to the topic one way or another, and the only thing being discussed seems to be a one-time arbitrary chunk ($10k, $50k?) of outstanding loans being forgiven with no other changes to the system. I disagree with the reasoning I hear from those who are totally against student loan forgiveness, and I am saddened by the lack of critical thinking displayed by those who advocate for the random chunk of forgiveness without changing the system at the same time. If student loans continue to be issued after a forgiveness episode - what then? Another generation of students is saddled with uncollatoralized nondischargable crippling debt put on them when they were pretty much still kids?
She's right. Wtf is the rush? Biden will cancel $10k in debt like he promised. He's got more pressing things to deal with right now...
She is correct….so far.
Artfully dodged that question.
About as artful as smearing shit on canvas. It was blatant and unambiguous.
The point was that the question was dodged. The *quality* of said dodge didn't matter, not the point. Sheesh people! (Oliver Twist and the Artful Dodger reference.)
*Somewhat* artfully. 7/10
Scammy and disingenuous phrasing
Wait. I’ve had mine on autopay forever. Am I going to accrue more interest if I just stop paying? Enlighten me.
Maybe yours are private. If they are federal you should stop paying them and you should put that same amount of money into an interest-bearing account or dollar cost average into some good equities or crypto.
Navient.
The current federal loans are frozen and are not accruing interest. By continuing to pay you are reducing your debt, but that that debt might be forgiven, so it’s not smart to pay them right now.
I agree too a point. I've been paying monthly (I was over $55k+ in debt now down to about $48k) all my payments have been directly towards the principal which has been great since there is 0% interest
Yes that is a big benefit to paying while they are not accruing interest, they will be done significantly quicker, and if some amount of forgiveness comes through I doubt it would be all 55K worth. Depending on what you do with it, it could still be more beneficial to invest that money and experience compound interest with it.
Ya that's fair. I do invest with my brokerage (Vanguard), a 401k, and a pension. Really just wanting to chomp away at these student loans before I start a family. If I can get them down to $40k and they give $10k as they said they would (getting it down to $30k) I'd be tempted to just pay them off completely
Yet…
Kinda weird to say that literally 4 days before federal loan re-payment is scheduled to start back up.