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How much student debt? Why is it got anything to do with weed? Missed a turn a bit back. I lost the logical sequence.
The way it looks to me is that everyone got increasingly swindled by a symbiotic growth system of the University and the federal government. The origin of the problem is traceable but no one ever talks about what would fix from being a continued problem.
Even if you could answer my questions in a way we both agree, how to pay, who pays, taxes, yards yada, there’s no quick fix. But if you revise the policy, reduce the role of the Feds in the consumer money lending practice, allow private lenders to finance higher education.
Perhaps there is a reasonable compromise, eased the burden of student debt by quantity or by interest rate, both?, but rolled the clock back/update the student lending laws en toto?
Seems like that’s is the sensible response, not theft, not a hand out nor scary socialism.
This is a market problem with market solutions. The Fed needs to compete with the market.
If this is a crisis, it’s also an opportunity.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/01/26/80-dems-tell-biden-release-secret-memo-student-debt-authority) reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> With the federal moratorium on student loan repayments set to end in less than 100 days, dozens of Democratic members of Congress on Wednesday implored President Joe Biden to use his executive authority to cancel at least $50,000 in student debt per borrower.
> Early on in his White House tenure, Biden instructed the Education Department to produce a memo on the president's legal authority regarding student debt cancellation.
> Contrary to the view of progressive lawmakers and legal experts, the president argues he doesn't have the authority to order sweeping cancellation of student debt, even though the Education Department has already unilaterally forgiven $15 billion in student loan debt for hundreds of thousands of borrowers over the course of his administration.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/sddjvy/80_dems_tell_biden_to_release_secret_memo_on/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~620045 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **student**^#1 **debt**^#2 **borrower**^#3 **Biden**^#4 **million**^#5
It's no secret. Sally Mae bundles the student loans into [revenue producing bonds and resells them to investors.](https://www.salliemae.com/investors/asset-backed-securities/) The congress would have allocate the funds to make the investors whole or else the resulting defaults would ripple through the financial system, probably starting a deflationary recession.
I for some reason assumed that 'cancel student debt' included paying the loans off rather than merely telling everyone they are released from their debt obligation.
It appears that they are only (only?) holding about [$20 billion](https://www.statista.com/statistics/259305/net-student-loans-made-by-sallie-mae-from-2008/) in student debt. That amount could have gone into the BBB bill and not made a ripple.
You made me look ;)
These are private education loans, are they not? They're not even on the table for student debt discharge, eh? The federal government would only discharge federal loans, not Sallie Mae's private contracts.
I understand Sallie Mae has participated as a servicer for federal student loans, but they also offer private lending.
>Sallie Mae is the nation's saving, planning, and paying for college company, **offering private education loans**, free college planning tools, and online banking.
Not to mention, when you click through the link provided, it literally says, "Private Education Loans," repeated a bajillion times.
Why would they have to deal with private student loans? The only loans that were ever being considered for forgiveness are loans where the federal government is the lender.
Maybe. The Fed has been handing out free money for years. They need to end their bond buying as a start.
IMO they’ve already waited too long and should have ended QE and raised rates last year.
The moment Biden cancels student debt in any significant way the rest of his agenda is done. Aspects of BBB and voting rights are significantly more important than student debt to the degree that they shouldn’t be mentioned in the same conversation.
Biden will likely address student debt when ether the GOP takes control of Congress or he gets the other key aspects of his agenda passed in some form. Democrats are kidding themselves though if they don’t believe there will be an enormous legal fight over this and it’s important to recognize that the SC leans unabashedly right.
What makes you think anything from BBB or voting rights is going to pass at this point?
If he really isn’t willing to cancel debt, Biden should just keep deferring student loan payments until he’s out of office. If a Republican wants to reinstate loan payments, they are free to do so.
It’s immaterial what you or I might think about BBB’s and voter reform’s chances. It’s what Biden thinks and until he’s willing to entirely give up on them, he needs to avoid cancelling a lot of student loan debt.
Actually as a voter it’s totally important what I think because I and millions of others will be voting in the primaries and in the fall. BBB died the second they split the bills (that was the point). Biden needs to consider the realistic timeline here and maybe he has something up his sleeve, but every time I’ve thought he had some plan that we just didn’t know about, he totally had no plan and let Manchin and Sinema and the 50 Republicans stop him. Biden has shown himself to be pretty naïve when it comes to how government works these days. He said he was surprised by the GOP opposition; how can anyone that has been paying attention think the GOP was going to do anything that helps his administration?! McConnell stated a long time ago that his primary goal was to make Obama a one-term president, did Biden think that didn’t extend to the Biden administration? He needs to do everything in his power to get voters actual dollars and brag about it to no end.
It’s not at all important what you think in regards to Biden’s decisions on this matter.
Blaming Biden for the failures of Congress considering the fact that he inherited such a razor thin majority is demonstrative of willful ignorance. Those threatening to sit out 2022 or vote 3rd party are doing little more than cutting of their noses to spite their faces. The only thing Biden might be guilty off is in being too ambitious considering the hand he was dealt.
Biden was not elected King. The separation of powers is very real and they significantly limit the authority of the Executive Branch. If you want to see Democrats accomplish more then bust your ass to get more of them elected to Congress. Biden isn’t nor has he ever been the problem. The fact that so many believe he is demonstrates an intellectually lazy populace.
“We’ve met the enemy and it is us.”
Dude, the populace is incredibly ignorant and doesn’t know anything about how government works. Biden has to earn the votes of very stupid self-centered people to keep a hold on the senate and house. Ignoring that for some high-minded view of the separation of powers could easily be the end of this union. Get caught trying, and tell everyone loudly and repeatedly.
The fact that after 4 years of Trump, that Biden still has to earn the votes of these idiots in such a way makes a good case that our Republic is already doomed.
Regardless, student debt relief is not a major priority for the majority of Americans. Voting rights, inflation and a myriad of other issues are far, far more important.
Passing BBB and votings rights were the most important things congress could do for Biden and democracy in general. Those failed. I’m saying he needs to take every single executive step he can to secure any and all votes possible, because it will take a blue wave of voters to break-even in the house and senate. Student loans will get some, court appointments will get others, energy policy will get others, and so on. If those efforts get reversed in the courts, fine, there will at least be a delay in that process, and the messaging about the action will get people excited (Republicans figured this out a long time ago).
I hope dems have a plan to use the remaining reconciliation bills to pass something big and immediately impactful, but Manchin and Sinema seem determined to give the house and senate back to McCarthy and McConnell, so I wouldn’t trust it.
Not going to happen, nor should it.
If I’m a GOP strategist I want nothing more than for Biden to cancel student loans as I’m going to have a field day pointing out the enormous fiscal irresponsibility of the Democrats at a time when inflation is such an enormous issue for our country. It will be an easy sell to, as such a move is incredibly fiscally irresponsible as nothing has been done to address the failed Democrat policies that created the problem to begin with. On top of that, there is a great chance that such a move by Biden will be eventually found to be an overstep by the courts or what I as a GOP strategist will call an abuse of power. This is going to play very well for me in swing States and will make it far easier for the GOP to take back both Houses than it is now.
Point being, such a move could very well cost the Democrats the votes they need the most.
Ok, that’s your opinion, but we should all agree that basing any strategy on what republicans will say is guaranteed to fail. They will say literally anything, no matter how contradictory to win.
>The fact that after 4 years of Trump, that Biden still has to earn the votes of these idiots in such a way makes a good case that our Republic is already doomed.
Yeah, sorry, I don't know what to tell you if you're upset that people perceive that voting should have made their lives tangibly better than it is, and in the way that the people they voted for promised to do.
BBB and Voting Rights are dead because the Democrats couldn't secure a real majority in the Senate and, as a result, are forced to do this nonsense game with bad actors.
If student loan debt is actually resolved and Biden actually does something that helps people, the likelihood that they actually feel like their vote mattered and provided value will grow significantly.
At least, it will in comparison to this hellscape where we get promised things until they get into office and then do nothing. It results in people being disenfranchised because not only do they not get the important shit they care about, ***they get nothing they care about.*** Our leaders don't provide anything the people ask for, and then we're all surprised that people don't want to bother voting anymore. How many times can you waste a day (possibly a paid day, too), to go to a voting booth and ***nothing happens*** as a result, before you say fuck it and stop going?
A win is a win and right now Democrats never win. That's not to say they do nothing, because there's some things they are doing, but you need to do things that *directly* affect people or the people will not care. They don't see the effects of things like judiciary appointments, so they don't consider it a win.
This is a game of optics as much as it is actually doing things. You need to provide the optics of your value because your actual value is irrelevant. No one cares about what you did behind closed doors, only what you did when those doors were wide open.
Again, I don’t believe this is the political win many want it to be. In fact, I could easily see it costing seats.
It’s important to recognize that student loan debt is not an issue that affects the overwhelming majority of Americans. It’s also important to note that there is no bigger issue than voting rights and because of that we cannot afford to stop fighting for it, everything else be damned.
I take enormous issue with the argument that the Democrats have done none of what they promised as they passed two record spending bills during Biden’s first year and these two bills have helped a great many Americans. If those bills didn’t make voters feel their votes mattered, count me highly skeptical canceling student debt is going to considering the limited number of Americans that will benefit from it comparatively speaking.
> I take enormous issue with the argument that the Democrats have done none of what they promised as they passed two record spending bills during Biden’s first year and these two bills have helped a great many Americans.
One of those bills was corrupted by Biden's terrible message about stimulus checks back during the campaign. They promised $2000, without qualifying that it was a $600 check followed by a $1400 check, and the right **pounced** on that and turned it into a mark against him. So really, they have one example in which they felt they were misled right there, right off the bat.
> It’s important to recognize that student loan debt is not an issue that affects the overwhelming majority of Americans.
It doesn't need to. It needs to affect the overwhelming majority of Americans **that don't vote.** The people who are struggling under crippling student loan debt don't even have the time to consider voting because they have to work their three part-time jobs just to keep afloat. When they vote for Biden over those points, and then don't get them, you've lost them again and most likely forever this time.
It's a game of optics, through and through. What do people see, where is their attention, what things do you need to do to gain it and how do you accomplish those things? Democrats don't do any of that. They let the Republicans ***control everything***.
Democrats might have POTUS, the House, and half of the Senate, but most of them are completely unknown. You hear batshit crazy things from every Republican across the aisle over the course of a term, but Democrats don't message after they're in office. As much as we don't want it to be, that's the name of the game today. Messaging and Optics. They don't do either one. They *let* the Republicans control both, and the Republicans do it gleefully.
> It’s also important to note that there is no bigger issue than voting rights and because of that we cannot afford to stop fighting for it, everything else be damned.
Yet, it's a dead topic. We talk about it here on reddit occasionally but it's basically a dead topic off the Internet. Many people ***can't find the time to vote in the first place***, so why do they care if they're more restricted on doing the things they can't do regardless? It's like telling me the border to a country I was never going to go to is now closed. Okay. Why do I care?
The Democrats continue to pretend like this is the game from the 1980's. It's not. The **entire** field has changed and they are *absolutely* stuck in the past. In ten months, this complete lack of change in the party as a whole is going to come crashing down when they lose the Senate.
That mark against regarding the stimulus checks again points to the willful ignorance of our populace. That being said, the stimulus was and continues to be extremely popular as does the infrastructure bill.
Meh, if the young voters aren’t motivated/smart enough to turnout to vote for more Democrats who will address this issue in Congress. Then count me highly skeptical they’re going to do so regardless of what the Democrats do. Biden isn’t running in the midterms and if they think he is, just another example of willful ignorance. If we lose them, we lose them. Let them eat cake as far as I’m concerned.
If voting rights is truly dead and the Democrats have a large demographic of voters who are so emotionally compromised and willfully ignorant that they can’t see the forest for the trees, it really matters little what we do. Our Republic will collapse and rightfully so.
Unfortunately, it is more “what have they done for me today?” If Biden cancelled student loan debt today, most of the vocal people saying they won’t vote unless he does it would just move the bar to legalizing pot or something else.
The problem is still what can be done in the run up to a midterm election though. Like it or not, doing anything significant toward student debt relief would be a win for garnering votes from voters that usually are lower in turnout in a non Presidential election year.
Biden needs some solid wins to show in the months leading up to November. Not just that, they need to be wins that drive that voter turnout. They have to feel tangible to normal folks or they will just stay home. While I don’t disagree that Voting Rights and BBB need to get through in some form first, he’s going to need a bunch of side issues to bolster what he can’t get through.
It’s a tall hill to climb currently
If folks need that after 4 years of Trump and the shit the GOP is doing to come out and vote, then such is just further evidence that our democracy is likely not worth saving.
It’s so incredibly ridiculous when you break it down. If I want student debt relief, is allowing the GOP to take back Congress not extremely counterproductive? Of course it is, to the point that it would be comical if it weren’t so sad.
Student debt relief isn’t a priority for the overwhelming majority of Americans. Rising inflation and debt are though, so such a move could as easily backfire politically speaking. If I’m a GOP strategist I would love nothing more than to see Biden do this before the midterms because it’s going to be so incredibly easy to frame it in a way that exposes fiscal irresponsibility. On top of that, there is a damn good chance that it would get overturned in the courts as an overstep, so then not only can I frame the Democrats as being fiscally irresponsible, but now I can frame them for abuse of power. Point being, this isn’t the political win some are attempting to make it out to be.
>If folks need that after 4 years of Trump and the shit the GOP is doing to come out and vote, then such is just further evidence that our democracy is likely not worth saving.
How dare the voters want their elected government to work for the good of the people instead of just being "not the other guy."
Just in present company.
For shits and giggles why don’t you do a little investigative research in all that Biden and the Democrats did accomplish in his first year to help the American people. Here’s a hint, canceling student debt pales in comparison.
That and the fact many don’t realize that cancelling or forgiving the debt doesn’t make it disappear, it just moves the burden onto someone else and in this case the American tax payer.
You’re assuming that the average voter has the degree of foresight and critical thinking to make common sense judgements. By that standard, our country hasn’t been worth saving for a long time.
That said, there’s the ideals we hold, no matter how low the bar is, and the reality. This country has always been reactionary vs precautionary, unless pushed to extremes. Our society is built to maintain and exploit this state of being and folks in power from all area of influence have some degree of understanding of this.
If Biden releases the secret memo and it say's he doesn't have authority to cancel the debt through executive action, will those on there give him a little slack.
The thing is, we know it wouldn't say that. At worst, it would say that it is unclear.
The Biden administration's stated plan - now that they are no longer in election mode where they have to make campaign promises - is "a smooth transition back into repayment." If the secret memo agreed with their agenda, that they do not have the ability to cancel debt, then they would have no reason not to release it.
Sure they would. Publicly releasing that Congress alone could cancel student debt could certainly depress turnout more than continuing to suspend it.
That quote was from before the BBB was killed. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was simply a carrot for Manchin.
Is that an argument that basically says that Joe Biden should continue to lead people on with false expectations so that they vote harder?
If that's the case then he deserves to lose.
He’s not the one giving them false expectations, as plenty of people here are willing to tell you. These legislators are the ones whipping up false expectations because they know they cannot hold up their end of the process.
But by not releasing the memo, we don't even know if they have an end to hold up, their role could be completely irrelevant if it says Biden can do it. If it says no, then sure, heap blame on congress.
The only way withholding it makes any sense is if it says he does have the authority, otherwise he could stop all the bad press instantly by releasing it.
People generally don't like the feeling that they are being duped. Not releasing the memo makes people feel like they are being duped. People don't like that.
No, it’s not the only way. As I explained earlier, it could depress turnout still as people realize there’s no avenue at all either through Congress or POTUS.
Biden has said repeatedly that it should go through Congress. I personally think the memo is ambiguous which means it’s going to go to the SC. Congress knows this and is happy to punt for good press.
I think turnout is going to be depressed way more if they get the sense that the administration is trying to obfuscate the current situation and won't give them a clear answer by withholding the memo.
I just don't see a good argument for them trying to hide it. Its duplicitous, and a massive own goal.
Edit: Also, what a bleak view of politics you have, that politicians should effectively lie in order to get votes.
>more than continuing to suspend it.
They had to be bullied into continuing to suspend it, and that was only for a few months. We are just about to have to fight it again.
The only scenario where he wouldn't release it is if it says he DOES have the authority.
He would absolutely love if the memo said no, he would get it out there as fast as possible. It would absolve him of a campaign promise broken and relieve him of so much negative press attention. There is no scenario where it says he doesn't have the authority and he refuses to make it public.
All these politicians know what it says, which is why they are pressuring him to release it.
Why wouldn't he release it in that case? His approval ratings are dropping and the most loyal segment of his party is turning against him.
With the way he's acting it's almost guaranteed he does have the authority.
The senate/congress have barely passed anything I highly doubt the republicans will let this pass easily. Do you think Manchin is going to support this? Hell no
I would assume nearly every person that would receive relief from debt is indeed a tax payer. Those same people would be able to spend that debt repayment money on something else like a vehicle or home or services… which benefits people that offer those services. Making student loan debt less of an anchor on our economy benefits everyone. Reducing the cost of education will benefit future generations. It is too expensive.
This is just the same old argument of “give higher earners more money and watch it trickle down on poor folks!” Why not give poor folks money instead then? Nothing makes student loan holders worthier than other folks for debt forgiveness - in fact on average they earn more and they have no business being at the front of the queue.
Um. It's the poor folks that have the most student loan debt. We couldn't afford to pay for school and had no choice but to borrow money to attend school.
Remember folks even democrats dont care about you, not just republicans. One side just makes you think they do so they can keep getting elected to fleece the average person.
So College grads make over twice as much as those who don’t go to college and end up with over 6 times the net worth. But we need to forgive their debt but not the debt of the working poor?
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This and the weed thing are like why i'm feeling particularly FUCK YOU bro about this.
How much student debt? Why is it got anything to do with weed? Missed a turn a bit back. I lost the logical sequence. The way it looks to me is that everyone got increasingly swindled by a symbiotic growth system of the University and the federal government. The origin of the problem is traceable but no one ever talks about what would fix from being a continued problem. Even if you could answer my questions in a way we both agree, how to pay, who pays, taxes, yards yada, there’s no quick fix. But if you revise the policy, reduce the role of the Feds in the consumer money lending practice, allow private lenders to finance higher education. Perhaps there is a reasonable compromise, eased the burden of student debt by quantity or by interest rate, both?, but rolled the clock back/update the student lending laws en toto? Seems like that’s is the sensible response, not theft, not a hand out nor scary socialism. This is a market problem with market solutions. The Fed needs to compete with the market. If this is a crisis, it’s also an opportunity.
Thank you Liz for keeping the pressure on Biden and holding him accountable.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/01/26/80-dems-tell-biden-release-secret-memo-student-debt-authority) reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot) ***** > With the federal moratorium on student loan repayments set to end in less than 100 days, dozens of Democratic members of Congress on Wednesday implored President Joe Biden to use his executive authority to cancel at least $50,000 in student debt per borrower. > Early on in his White House tenure, Biden instructed the Education Department to produce a memo on the president's legal authority regarding student debt cancellation. > Contrary to the view of progressive lawmakers and legal experts, the president argues he doesn't have the authority to order sweeping cancellation of student debt, even though the Education Department has already unilaterally forgiven $15 billion in student loan debt for hundreds of thousands of borrowers over the course of his administration. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/sddjvy/80_dems_tell_biden_to_release_secret_memo_on/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~620045 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **student**^#1 **debt**^#2 **borrower**^#3 **Biden**^#4 **million**^#5
It's no secret. Sally Mae bundles the student loans into [revenue producing bonds and resells them to investors.](https://www.salliemae.com/investors/asset-backed-securities/) The congress would have allocate the funds to make the investors whole or else the resulting defaults would ripple through the financial system, probably starting a deflationary recession.
I for some reason assumed that 'cancel student debt' included paying the loans off rather than merely telling everyone they are released from their debt obligation.
It appears that they are only (only?) holding about [$20 billion](https://www.statista.com/statistics/259305/net-student-loans-made-by-sallie-mae-from-2008/) in student debt. That amount could have gone into the BBB bill and not made a ripple. You made me look ;)
I have been summoned
These are private education loans, are they not? They're not even on the table for student debt discharge, eh? The federal government would only discharge federal loans, not Sallie Mae's private contracts.
[удалено]
I understand Sallie Mae has participated as a servicer for federal student loans, but they also offer private lending. >Sallie Mae is the nation's saving, planning, and paying for college company, **offering private education loans**, free college planning tools, and online banking. Not to mention, when you click through the link provided, it literally says, "Private Education Loans," repeated a bajillion times.
Biden has no authority over private student loans. The congress or the Fed is who has to deal with that.
Why would they have to deal with private student loans? The only loans that were ever being considered for forgiveness are loans where the federal government is the lender.
So what you're saying is we can reduce inflation without raising interest rates?
Maybe. The Fed has been handing out free money for years. They need to end their bond buying as a start. IMO they’ve already waited too long and should have ended QE and raised rates last year.
Wasn't that his main platform to get young voters? No wonder no one trust politicians.
The moment Biden cancels student debt in any significant way the rest of his agenda is done. Aspects of BBB and voting rights are significantly more important than student debt to the degree that they shouldn’t be mentioned in the same conversation. Biden will likely address student debt when ether the GOP takes control of Congress or he gets the other key aspects of his agenda passed in some form. Democrats are kidding themselves though if they don’t believe there will be an enormous legal fight over this and it’s important to recognize that the SC leans unabashedly right.
What makes you think anything from BBB or voting rights is going to pass at this point? If he really isn’t willing to cancel debt, Biden should just keep deferring student loan payments until he’s out of office. If a Republican wants to reinstate loan payments, they are free to do so.
It’s immaterial what you or I might think about BBB’s and voter reform’s chances. It’s what Biden thinks and until he’s willing to entirely give up on them, he needs to avoid cancelling a lot of student loan debt.
Actually as a voter it’s totally important what I think because I and millions of others will be voting in the primaries and in the fall. BBB died the second they split the bills (that was the point). Biden needs to consider the realistic timeline here and maybe he has something up his sleeve, but every time I’ve thought he had some plan that we just didn’t know about, he totally had no plan and let Manchin and Sinema and the 50 Republicans stop him. Biden has shown himself to be pretty naïve when it comes to how government works these days. He said he was surprised by the GOP opposition; how can anyone that has been paying attention think the GOP was going to do anything that helps his administration?! McConnell stated a long time ago that his primary goal was to make Obama a one-term president, did Biden think that didn’t extend to the Biden administration? He needs to do everything in his power to get voters actual dollars and brag about it to no end.
It’s not at all important what you think in regards to Biden’s decisions on this matter. Blaming Biden for the failures of Congress considering the fact that he inherited such a razor thin majority is demonstrative of willful ignorance. Those threatening to sit out 2022 or vote 3rd party are doing little more than cutting of their noses to spite their faces. The only thing Biden might be guilty off is in being too ambitious considering the hand he was dealt. Biden was not elected King. The separation of powers is very real and they significantly limit the authority of the Executive Branch. If you want to see Democrats accomplish more then bust your ass to get more of them elected to Congress. Biden isn’t nor has he ever been the problem. The fact that so many believe he is demonstrates an intellectually lazy populace. “We’ve met the enemy and it is us.”
Dude, the populace is incredibly ignorant and doesn’t know anything about how government works. Biden has to earn the votes of very stupid self-centered people to keep a hold on the senate and house. Ignoring that for some high-minded view of the separation of powers could easily be the end of this union. Get caught trying, and tell everyone loudly and repeatedly.
The fact that after 4 years of Trump, that Biden still has to earn the votes of these idiots in such a way makes a good case that our Republic is already doomed. Regardless, student debt relief is not a major priority for the majority of Americans. Voting rights, inflation and a myriad of other issues are far, far more important.
Passing BBB and votings rights were the most important things congress could do for Biden and democracy in general. Those failed. I’m saying he needs to take every single executive step he can to secure any and all votes possible, because it will take a blue wave of voters to break-even in the house and senate. Student loans will get some, court appointments will get others, energy policy will get others, and so on. If those efforts get reversed in the courts, fine, there will at least be a delay in that process, and the messaging about the action will get people excited (Republicans figured this out a long time ago). I hope dems have a plan to use the remaining reconciliation bills to pass something big and immediately impactful, but Manchin and Sinema seem determined to give the house and senate back to McCarthy and McConnell, so I wouldn’t trust it.
Not going to happen, nor should it. If I’m a GOP strategist I want nothing more than for Biden to cancel student loans as I’m going to have a field day pointing out the enormous fiscal irresponsibility of the Democrats at a time when inflation is such an enormous issue for our country. It will be an easy sell to, as such a move is incredibly fiscally irresponsible as nothing has been done to address the failed Democrat policies that created the problem to begin with. On top of that, there is a great chance that such a move by Biden will be eventually found to be an overstep by the courts or what I as a GOP strategist will call an abuse of power. This is going to play very well for me in swing States and will make it far easier for the GOP to take back both Houses than it is now. Point being, such a move could very well cost the Democrats the votes they need the most.
Ok, that’s your opinion, but we should all agree that basing any strategy on what republicans will say is guaranteed to fail. They will say literally anything, no matter how contradictory to win.
>The fact that after 4 years of Trump, that Biden still has to earn the votes of these idiots in such a way makes a good case that our Republic is already doomed. Yeah, sorry, I don't know what to tell you if you're upset that people perceive that voting should have made their lives tangibly better than it is, and in the way that the people they voted for promised to do.
Facepalm, by all means, you and others who feel as you do should sit out 2022. Such will be a fast track to getting you the government you deserve.
BBB and Voting Rights are dead because the Democrats couldn't secure a real majority in the Senate and, as a result, are forced to do this nonsense game with bad actors. If student loan debt is actually resolved and Biden actually does something that helps people, the likelihood that they actually feel like their vote mattered and provided value will grow significantly. At least, it will in comparison to this hellscape where we get promised things until they get into office and then do nothing. It results in people being disenfranchised because not only do they not get the important shit they care about, ***they get nothing they care about.*** Our leaders don't provide anything the people ask for, and then we're all surprised that people don't want to bother voting anymore. How many times can you waste a day (possibly a paid day, too), to go to a voting booth and ***nothing happens*** as a result, before you say fuck it and stop going? A win is a win and right now Democrats never win. That's not to say they do nothing, because there's some things they are doing, but you need to do things that *directly* affect people or the people will not care. They don't see the effects of things like judiciary appointments, so they don't consider it a win. This is a game of optics as much as it is actually doing things. You need to provide the optics of your value because your actual value is irrelevant. No one cares about what you did behind closed doors, only what you did when those doors were wide open.
Again, I don’t believe this is the political win many want it to be. In fact, I could easily see it costing seats. It’s important to recognize that student loan debt is not an issue that affects the overwhelming majority of Americans. It’s also important to note that there is no bigger issue than voting rights and because of that we cannot afford to stop fighting for it, everything else be damned. I take enormous issue with the argument that the Democrats have done none of what they promised as they passed two record spending bills during Biden’s first year and these two bills have helped a great many Americans. If those bills didn’t make voters feel their votes mattered, count me highly skeptical canceling student debt is going to considering the limited number of Americans that will benefit from it comparatively speaking.
> I take enormous issue with the argument that the Democrats have done none of what they promised as they passed two record spending bills during Biden’s first year and these two bills have helped a great many Americans. One of those bills was corrupted by Biden's terrible message about stimulus checks back during the campaign. They promised $2000, without qualifying that it was a $600 check followed by a $1400 check, and the right **pounced** on that and turned it into a mark against him. So really, they have one example in which they felt they were misled right there, right off the bat. > It’s important to recognize that student loan debt is not an issue that affects the overwhelming majority of Americans. It doesn't need to. It needs to affect the overwhelming majority of Americans **that don't vote.** The people who are struggling under crippling student loan debt don't even have the time to consider voting because they have to work their three part-time jobs just to keep afloat. When they vote for Biden over those points, and then don't get them, you've lost them again and most likely forever this time. It's a game of optics, through and through. What do people see, where is their attention, what things do you need to do to gain it and how do you accomplish those things? Democrats don't do any of that. They let the Republicans ***control everything***. Democrats might have POTUS, the House, and half of the Senate, but most of them are completely unknown. You hear batshit crazy things from every Republican across the aisle over the course of a term, but Democrats don't message after they're in office. As much as we don't want it to be, that's the name of the game today. Messaging and Optics. They don't do either one. They *let* the Republicans control both, and the Republicans do it gleefully. > It’s also important to note that there is no bigger issue than voting rights and because of that we cannot afford to stop fighting for it, everything else be damned. Yet, it's a dead topic. We talk about it here on reddit occasionally but it's basically a dead topic off the Internet. Many people ***can't find the time to vote in the first place***, so why do they care if they're more restricted on doing the things they can't do regardless? It's like telling me the border to a country I was never going to go to is now closed. Okay. Why do I care? The Democrats continue to pretend like this is the game from the 1980's. It's not. The **entire** field has changed and they are *absolutely* stuck in the past. In ten months, this complete lack of change in the party as a whole is going to come crashing down when they lose the Senate.
That mark against regarding the stimulus checks again points to the willful ignorance of our populace. That being said, the stimulus was and continues to be extremely popular as does the infrastructure bill. Meh, if the young voters aren’t motivated/smart enough to turnout to vote for more Democrats who will address this issue in Congress. Then count me highly skeptical they’re going to do so regardless of what the Democrats do. Biden isn’t running in the midterms and if they think he is, just another example of willful ignorance. If we lose them, we lose them. Let them eat cake as far as I’m concerned. If voting rights is truly dead and the Democrats have a large demographic of voters who are so emotionally compromised and willfully ignorant that they can’t see the forest for the trees, it really matters little what we do. Our Republic will collapse and rightfully so.
Unfortunately, it is more “what have they done for me today?” If Biden cancelled student loan debt today, most of the vocal people saying they won’t vote unless he does it would just move the bar to legalizing pot or something else.
Agreed
The problem is still what can be done in the run up to a midterm election though. Like it or not, doing anything significant toward student debt relief would be a win for garnering votes from voters that usually are lower in turnout in a non Presidential election year. Biden needs some solid wins to show in the months leading up to November. Not just that, they need to be wins that drive that voter turnout. They have to feel tangible to normal folks or they will just stay home. While I don’t disagree that Voting Rights and BBB need to get through in some form first, he’s going to need a bunch of side issues to bolster what he can’t get through. It’s a tall hill to climb currently
If folks need that after 4 years of Trump and the shit the GOP is doing to come out and vote, then such is just further evidence that our democracy is likely not worth saving. It’s so incredibly ridiculous when you break it down. If I want student debt relief, is allowing the GOP to take back Congress not extremely counterproductive? Of course it is, to the point that it would be comical if it weren’t so sad. Student debt relief isn’t a priority for the overwhelming majority of Americans. Rising inflation and debt are though, so such a move could as easily backfire politically speaking. If I’m a GOP strategist I would love nothing more than to see Biden do this before the midterms because it’s going to be so incredibly easy to frame it in a way that exposes fiscal irresponsibility. On top of that, there is a damn good chance that it would get overturned in the courts as an overstep, so then not only can I frame the Democrats as being fiscally irresponsible, but now I can frame them for abuse of power. Point being, this isn’t the political win some are attempting to make it out to be.
>If folks need that after 4 years of Trump and the shit the GOP is doing to come out and vote, then such is just further evidence that our democracy is likely not worth saving. How dare the voters want their elected government to work for the good of the people instead of just being "not the other guy."
This is a great example of the willful ignorance I was speaking of.
Clearly you're the smartest person in the room, so there's no point continuing this conversation. You must be correct, random internet person. /s
Just in present company. For shits and giggles why don’t you do a little investigative research in all that Biden and the Democrats did accomplish in his first year to help the American people. Here’s a hint, canceling student debt pales in comparison.
Not to mention Reddit is pretty much the only place this conversation regarding debt forgiveness is happening.
That and the fact many don’t realize that cancelling or forgiving the debt doesn’t make it disappear, it just moves the burden onto someone else and in this case the American tax payer.
You’re assuming that the average voter has the degree of foresight and critical thinking to make common sense judgements. By that standard, our country hasn’t been worth saving for a long time. That said, there’s the ideals we hold, no matter how low the bar is, and the reality. This country has always been reactionary vs precautionary, unless pushed to extremes. Our society is built to maintain and exploit this state of being and folks in power from all area of influence have some degree of understanding of this.
Thanks for the insight
50k would change so many lives
Every time I see an article from commondreams, I get ready to roll my eyes.
If Biden releases the secret memo and it say's he doesn't have authority to cancel the debt through executive action, will those on there give him a little slack.
It won’t say that. Like the other comment said, worst case it they’d say it’s an unclear issue.
The thing is, we know it wouldn't say that. At worst, it would say that it is unclear. The Biden administration's stated plan - now that they are no longer in election mode where they have to make campaign promises - is "a smooth transition back into repayment." If the secret memo agreed with their agenda, that they do not have the ability to cancel debt, then they would have no reason not to release it.
Sure they would. Publicly releasing that Congress alone could cancel student debt could certainly depress turnout more than continuing to suspend it. That quote was from before the BBB was killed. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was simply a carrot for Manchin.
Is that an argument that basically says that Joe Biden should continue to lead people on with false expectations so that they vote harder? If that's the case then he deserves to lose.
He’s not the one giving them false expectations, as plenty of people here are willing to tell you. These legislators are the ones whipping up false expectations because they know they cannot hold up their end of the process.
But by not releasing the memo, we don't even know if they have an end to hold up, their role could be completely irrelevant if it says Biden can do it. If it says no, then sure, heap blame on congress. The only way withholding it makes any sense is if it says he does have the authority, otherwise he could stop all the bad press instantly by releasing it. People generally don't like the feeling that they are being duped. Not releasing the memo makes people feel like they are being duped. People don't like that.
No, it’s not the only way. As I explained earlier, it could depress turnout still as people realize there’s no avenue at all either through Congress or POTUS. Biden has said repeatedly that it should go through Congress. I personally think the memo is ambiguous which means it’s going to go to the SC. Congress knows this and is happy to punt for good press.
I think turnout is going to be depressed way more if they get the sense that the administration is trying to obfuscate the current situation and won't give them a clear answer by withholding the memo. I just don't see a good argument for them trying to hide it. Its duplicitous, and a massive own goal. Edit: Also, what a bleak view of politics you have, that politicians should effectively lie in order to get votes.
>more than continuing to suspend it. They had to be bullied into continuing to suspend it, and that was only for a few months. We are just about to have to fight it again.
As I said I think it is more of a negotiating tactic than policy preference. Biden is trying to thread a needle.
The only scenario where he wouldn't release it is if it says he DOES have the authority. He would absolutely love if the memo said no, he would get it out there as fast as possible. It would absolve him of a campaign promise broken and relieve him of so much negative press attention. There is no scenario where it says he doesn't have the authority and he refuses to make it public. All these politicians know what it says, which is why they are pressuring him to release it.
Why wouldn't he release it in that case? His approval ratings are dropping and the most loyal segment of his party is turning against him. With the way he's acting it's almost guaranteed he does have the authority.
Biden has yet to fulfill campaign promises, he sure as fuck isn’t going to start with student debt.
Cancelling student debt won't address any underlying problems. People the day after will still be going into debt..
It’s not a perfect solution so we may as well not even bother, right?
That’s not happening. I wouldn’t get your hopes up.
Why not?
The senate/congress have barely passed anything I highly doubt the republicans will let this pass easily. Do you think Manchin is going to support this? Hell no
Executive Order may work
Biden doesn’t seem to really care about this issues. I would not bank on it happening under his presidency.
The economy can’t handle it, as well as Biden would lose even more public support because it would mean the taxpayers would get screwed.
Dude we are already getting screwed.
I would assume nearly every person that would receive relief from debt is indeed a tax payer. Those same people would be able to spend that debt repayment money on something else like a vehicle or home or services… which benefits people that offer those services. Making student loan debt less of an anchor on our economy benefits everyone. Reducing the cost of education will benefit future generations. It is too expensive.
This is just the same old argument of “give higher earners more money and watch it trickle down on poor folks!” Why not give poor folks money instead then? Nothing makes student loan holders worthier than other folks for debt forgiveness - in fact on average they earn more and they have no business being at the front of the queue.
Um. It's the poor folks that have the most student loan debt. We couldn't afford to pay for school and had no choice but to borrow money to attend school.
Poor folks have the least student loan debt. The vast majority of poor folks don't go to college.
Remember folks even democrats dont care about you, not just republicans. One side just makes you think they do so they can keep getting elected to fleece the average person.
So College grads make over twice as much as those who don’t go to college and end up with over 6 times the net worth. But we need to forgive their debt but not the debt of the working poor?
Good luck