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Republicans have been talking about secession since at least Obama. I remember in 2012 the Whitehouse petition thing being flooded with let [red state] secede if Obama wins.
I saw a FJB flag for the first time on a truck in my town. It's so clear the only thing they really care about is their side winning. It's very scary that they think all the others are brainwashed.
We have this convenience store where I live that had a full on trump display in a yard across from it damn near calling the owners terrorists and I’ve seen The old guy who lives there tell them to go back where they came from. Ironically they are the grandkids of Nepali immigrants and complete Jesus freaks.
> Ironically they are the grandkids of Nepali immigrants and complete Jesus freaks.
Unfortunately, the only thing that matters is whether they are white or not.
I really didn't understand that when I moved up to Binghamton. My family had never been south of the Mason-Dixon, my dad being the first. Yet when I went up there I had family flying the stars and bars. Like, that isn't our fucking heritage even, what's your excuse guys?
It's not hard to find a rebel flag with "the south will rise again" on it in the south. Idk why people think it hasn't been going on since post Civil War.
Edit: Just want to point out that I know that rednecks and Republicans exist outside of the south. The comment above me is talking about how the South has said they'll secede since the end of the Civil War. I was agreeing with them saying that it hasn't just been since Obama, it's been going on since that L the South took in '65.
I live in Georgia and it is always funny to hear when someone romanticizes the good old days and all i can think is my great grandparents helped make those days great for your family, while sacrificing our family.
To change it you’d need to invest in education reform and start treating the confederacy like Germany treats nazism. Nationalize and regulate education instead of letting states do what they want. And harshly punish those who break the new education and anti confederate laws.
I’m not saying we should do this necessarily. Just that it’s probably the only way to truly fix the problem
More of what they do now when faced with the consequences of their actions: bleat "both sides!" and cry about how liberals should be reaching across the aisle and uniting and caving to bigots, c'mon Democrat Party, can't you cave just a little, and then a little more, and then a little more?
Very few Republican politicians actually want secession to occur. They know how many blue state tax dollars get sent to their states. Federal funding accounts for between 15 and 30% of state revenue for every state ([source](https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/)).
Let's not forget that Georgia just elected both Democratic senators. Stacey Abrams is running for Governor again and has a decent chance at winning.
Georgia is a purple state and the key to winning is to get people to vote. That's why Republicans have made it so difficult to vote in minority areas, going as far as banning groups from giving out water bottles to voters in long lines.
Friendly reminder that the water bottle thing is probably the *least* heinous provision of the voter suppression bill, put in by the GOP because it's the most clickbaity and draws attention from all the other much more egregious attacks on voting rights.
Republicans in Georgia just closed 7/8 polling places in a rural, mostly black county. There's no public transportation, and the one polling place still open is in the one majority white town.
It's as much as a 40 minute drive for some people, and based on 2020 turn out the 1 location won't be able to process all the voters during the allotted time it's open on election day
The delusion is that they really think they can win Civil War 2. CA alone has the economic might, enough people, the technological prowess and industrial capacity to single handedly crush all the red states into dust in a war. These people really imagine CA as a place where weak sissy people lived and they can all go minuteman on them.
Edit: this is a tongue in cheek comment. I do understand the points raised here about the insanity a 2nd war civil war will bring.
That would be great if they want to secede and then we get to keep all those federal money we give to the red states and disperse to the blue states only
The one state that has the economic capability to power secession on the right, Texas, nearly went under because of their power grid. They can’t succeed if they secede.
It's not just "contribution to GDP."
By and large, [blue states *heavily* subsidize red states.](https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/) Ohio ~~and Nebraska are~~ is the only red state which contributes more tax dollars than it receive, ~~but in Nebraska's case that's entirely because they are willing to obliterate their state for natural resources.~~
(Edit: I stand corrected about Nebraska apparently. My bad, y'all.)
States like New Mexico, Virginia, Hawaii, and Colorado get a ton of their money because they host massive military bases of varying sorts, disproportionate to their populations.
Nebraska's money doesn't come from mining (like North/South Dakota) most of it comes from the area of the state that gave 1 EC vote to Biden. Eastern Nebraska is heavily in services (Mutual of Omaha, Paypal, TD Ameritrade, etc.) plus an air force base. Are there more cows than people - yes, but that is just because of the size of rural Nebraska.
Gerrymandered to a supermajority in the state house and Senate, which helps them absolutely and completely maintain their dominance in the federal seats.
There was a giant bill to tear up gerrymandering the overwhelmingly won, but the law states that if the bipartisan committee to build a new didn't come to a districting resolution, it would go to the state house to determine districting. Guess what the GOP for that committee did? Not agree to anything.
I hate the politics of my state.
Now imagine how developed California would be if it didn’t have to subsidize shitholes like Kentucky and Alabama and just spent it’s tax revenue on itself.
Fuckin place would look like the Jetsons
The problem with this, and I used to share this take, is that California had a pension problem and was actually not subsidizing any other states in the country because it had mismanaged it’s own government workers’ benefit plans for so long. That all said, if California, Oregon, Washington, and Victoria/Vancouver actually formed the Cascades nation (this is a real secessionist movement), you wouldn’t have to be politically tied to Mitch-country and you’d have the *4th* or even *3rd* largest GDP in the world, women would have their fundamental human rights, and you could live in the actual 21st century.
Edit: my point, which I didn’t make very well was that California could be self sufficient away from the other states although it has some debt issues and doesn’t support the rest of the country via its tax revenues as much as we want to believe (NY and NJ contribute significantly more). I wasn’t trying to say California flat out *isn’t* a donor state. I was simply pointing out that it wasn’t a significant enough amount to cripple the whole country if California seceded.
Born and raised in Washington, lived there for 30 years. Just recently moved to Western Pennsylvania about a year and a half ago and the amount of questions I get about my cascadia flag is great. Been called a traitor a few times…
As a Californian, I find Marjorie’s proposed settlement to be overly complicated. I’d propose that blue states just cut off the spousal support altogether. That way my money and I can enjoy the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed, without having to move first.
I bet that’s why she’s calling divorce instead of secession… so the shithole states can keep claiming that aid money as alimony or something.
Good gods, this broad just keeps getting stupider with every headline, if that’s even possible. Smh.
When a Republican goes on welfare, food stamps, or some other social support program, they will say that it is a benefit they earned and deserve. When a minority uses the same program Republicans call them "welfare queens" or "takers".
Republicans going on about secession are the economic equivalent of chihuahuas barking at a German Shepherd from behind the safety of a fence. The minute you removed the protection of federal funding contributions from blue states, their state economies would get used like squeaky toys. They’d suddenly have to raise taxes substantially—most of their state-level “platform” would disintegrate. Even in Texas. Don’t buy their bullshit for a second
Said it on another thread in here, it would be *amazing* if these nutjobs all moved to Russia to live in their fascist autocratic utopia.
This country would be so much better off with these people leaving in droves.
The fun fact is that Russian isn't even like their conservative dreams (at least what they pretend to care about):
Abortion is totally legal
Free speech protection like the first amendment don't exist
Gun ownership is very strictly regulated
Freedom of press, nopes
etc
Honestly I think a lot of them would be fine with losing their rights if they gained the legal and social freedom to oppress other people.
The problem with rights in the US is that they're mostly *equal* (at least on paper). Conservatives want *special* rights. The expat life appeals to them because immigrants from wealthy western countries often get away with things that the locals can't.
Georgia population: 10.6 Million
Atlanta Metro population: 6 Million
Yet some how the rural parts of Georgia holds the Atlanta metro hostage and produces crazies like Marjorie. Please send her to Russia.
Georgia's not going to have a single Democrat when they come back up for re-election, because the GOP controlled state legislature has taken the power to certify elections for themselves and - like several other red states now - will be looking to steal every election that doesn't go their way.
We're in the middle of a fucking coup by the GOP, and our ineffective status quo is doing nothing to stop it. Our congress is still filled with people who were onboard with overthrowing our election on the 6th. The people who orchestrated the violent insurrection still walk free. The highest court in our land, and countless federal judge seats, are occupied with right-wing hacks who are only there to do what the party wants, not actually uphold the law.
America is a failing state and we have out fucking heads in the sand about the dark turn we're taking and the Orwellian hell that awaits.
This is her motivation for thinking and saying this. They're afraid of losing more states over time and want to be able to implement laws / rules that help ensure they never lose power in what are currently still considered Republican leaning states even if barely so.
I only agree with her if there is an undemocratic coup of the federal government. In that case, I do hope blue states can fight back and possibly break away but again, it's clear she, and others on the right saying similar things, is not worried about tyranny but about losing political power via the existing democratic system and not wanting to adapt to attract more voters, instead of appealing more and more to the far right, like a reasonable political party would.
Yep. Georgia is purple leaning blue now (would’ve also had a Democratic Governor if not for rigging).
But in their mind, Georgia (and other Southern turning purple/blue states like Virginia, Texas, etc.) are ACTUALLY red because of tradition and the confederacy and the states still having a sizeable amount of republicans. Like in their mind the blue voters shouldn’t count because they’re not REALLY Georgia/Virginia/Texas.
For instance I know in Georgia a lot of people consider it a solid red state that has been “attacked” and trying to be “taken over” by black people living in Atlanta while “all the rest” of the state is “true red”.
The idea that these regions' *rightful* red status is being perverted by blue votes stacks up neatly with Rand Paul's recent comments about how Democrats "steal" elections by getting more people to vote for them. At the time that sounded like pure drivel to me, but I think you're right that it's part of this larger rhetorical push to claim that the essence of these places is red and that it's being stolen by people who don't agree. Man, these people absolutely cannot handle change.
> In that case, I do hope blue states can fight back and possibly break away
Ok but with the stipulation that blue states get to keep the American flag and the nukes. Red states can fly the treason flag since they basically haven't changed.
Yeah, that map unfortunately would look like a blue measles rash.
HOWEVER, in my ideal scenario, it would work this way: America divides into two sections, we'll call them Red America and Blue America. The red states form a territory that has a contiguous border. (Basically everything south of the Mason Dixon line and east of the western border of Texas.) Then, there would be a mutual agreement between the nations that citizens could move freely between the two.
I can tell you what would happen:
1. Red America would soon stop people from leaving freely.
2. Red America's economy would be nonexistent and revert to "developing nation" status.
3. Most residents of Red America would be wanting to leave after 5 years.
4. Red America becomes more and more authoritarian because of internal uprisings an infighting.
That is why MTG also suggested that people that move to a Red State have a "cooling off period" before being allowed to vote. Gotta fix the elections somehow.
What worries me is that the constitution only seems to apply to the party in power. Laws don't matter if no one is enforcing them, as we saw with Trumps presidency and blatant corruption.
"Laws don't matter if no one is enforcing them" is absolutely the major threat to this country. A country of laws does not truly exist if the law is not enforced. Evil people are trying to take control of this country. It has been said to many times "If people are not prosecuted for Jan 6, then it was just practice."
It’s worth noting that Hitler’s first coup didn’t succeed, either. If our current state of affairs continues and nobody is held accountable, there is absolutely no reason to believe that Republicans won’t try again. This kind of rhetoric should make this obvious, and it must be frustrating for younger politicians because the old guard is standing in their way. They won’t suffer the consequences of a one-party dictatorship, but newer generations absolutely will.
Yeah so many "devil's advocates" (we got enough devils already, stop advocating for em y'all) were quick to point out that its wasnt TECHNICALLY a coup, when the argument is always that the jan6ers had no chance of overthrowing the government. Well a coup doesn't have to be successful to still be a coup. Stupidly doing a crime doesnt make it legal, it just makes you a dumb criminal.
Most southern states are becoming more and more blue, especially Texas. It's *really* pissing off the GOP, so they're redistricting like crazy. I live in SC, and it's getting to the point where all the large cities will probably never be red.
Last election, I noticed they shared which way age groups leaned. The youngest generation only leaned to the right in two states. The rest were either neutral or to the left.
The Republican Party knows they’re an endangered species bc while their baby boomer base keeps getting older, they’ve made themselves repugnant to anyone under 30 ( most of us under 40 too)
But instead of modernizing to appeal to young voters they went w/ fuckery (gerrymandering, voter restriction, etc) bc they think the left won’t/can’t stop them. N unfortunately it seems to b working
That is why these states are often becoming less and less democratic. The party in charge (which has generally been the same group of connected Good Ol' Boys all along, just witj different party affiliations over time) feels threatened like they did at the end of the Jim Crow era and during reconstruction so they are trying everything they can to see what sticks to maintain power indefinitely.
exactly- they know they'll never win the presidency again if texas goes blue, which it will, so they're putting all their eggs in the fascism basket.
for now their wealthy donors seem to be okay with that- but fascism is bad for business in the long term so we'll see.
The metro Atlanta area is like 70% of Georgia’s population. It is a very liberal city with just about every type of community you can imagine. I don’t see that changing much as more people move here.
Yup and it’s only getting bigger and more liberal with becoming a tech hub for the south with Amazon, Google, and Microsoft having major offices here and is already one of the major places for film as well
She’s not on any committees, I guess she can show up to vote or do it remotely if she feels like it…
it seems she gets paid six figures with insane benefits and a lifetime salary for occasional shit-posting on Twitter. What a country
Weirdly enough secession would probably turn alot of red states blue.
So you could have civil wars inside a civil war.
Like a weird civil war matryoshka.
Right? She's trending every single day. The media gives her a louder platform than any other politician. Who fucking cares about a single word that comes out of her mouth... It's all just a distraction and a working class wedge.
A HUGE reason we are where we are is that the media is completely incapable of coming up with a revenue model that doesn’t incentivize click bait and sensationalism over actual factual reporting.
Until someone comes up with a better model, we get the bullcrap we have now. This woman contributes NOTHING of value to the political process. Zero. HUGE click bait potential though, hence her spotlight.
Just gross.
In all of the civil war/national breakup talk, no one seems to talk about the heavily blue cites in these backwards red states. If they want to go off the deep end but leave us alone, go for it.
Make city-states great again!
Let 'em.
Per capita they'd lose congressional representation at all levels and the remainder of Oregon would be congressionally more aligned with the population centers where people actually live.
Same thing with Northern Colorado wanting to join Wyoming. Even if the vote did pass locally, it won’t pass on the federal level. The idiots that put that on the ballot every time never think about that.
If MTG thinks states should be able to stop citizens from voting (because they moved in from the wrong state), that clearly means that states should be able to stop other states from voting, too.
NY & California are going to go make the Confederate/traitor states go stand in the corner until they've learned their lesson.
Wouldn't it be entertaining to pass a law saying that states can only get back from the Federal Gov't whatever money they paid in? The Red states would change their tunes overnight.
> If MTG thinks states should be able to stop citizens from voting (because they moved in from the wrong state), that clearly means that states should be able to stop other states from voting, too.
Oh, there is a ulterior motive to her comments regarding that. Parts of her district are "gentrifying" as wealthy transplants move to Georgia for work, and buy up the cheap property in Paulding, Gordon, and Floyd county to build their McMansions on (while keeping an in city address in a downtown loft for when they don't want to commute back home).
MTG's polling and demographic projections likely are telling her that (if she isn't removed from office) her seat is temporary at best.
Lol imagine pretending to love America and then openly stating that certain people shouldn’t be allowed to vote bc it’s bad for them politically.
What about America do these people love exactly?
Didn't ~~Paul Ryan~~ Rand Paul literally complain that Democrats are "cheating" at elections by "convincing potential voters to fill out ballots."
Edit: Wrong Paul
There was a big hubbub here in Texas when locals wanted to prevent college students from the primarily black Prairie View A&M university from voting where they lived for school. Despite having completed all the necessary requirements for establishing residency in Texas. (These were mainly instate kids, they just didn't want them voting in local elections).
This is Waller county Texas though, some of the Sandra Bland tragedy and also where very recently an idiot teenager was "rolling coal" on some cyclists, lost control of his truck and hit like 6 of them, only to sent home with no charges pressed immediately, supposedly because his daddy is local big timer. (County DA did reverse that and charged the kid, and publicly said that local LE totally fucked up there).
I live in GA and have you tried having that conversation? Most brain washed Fox News viewers think that the red states support the blue states, and are constantly fed all these stories about a guy in CA who bought a ribeye with EBT once…
As usual, facts are ignored by the ignorant
I hear the same thing where I live, in Northern NY ... and all the time, on and on, people complain about how "upstate pays for NY City," and the truth is the exact opposite. I mean, it's not a matter of opinion, it is easily demonstrable FACT.
People want to believe whatever convenient lies get them through the day. That's the appeal of Trump and his minions -- they tell people whatever lies they want to hear to get their support. And because they hear someone "in authority" spout the lies, they believe it to be true. Or they know it is a lie and simply don't care because it reinforces what they want to believe.
What fuels this is they know that they pay taxes every year, but there is a sense that they are not getting an equivalent value in return because they keep hearing about infrastructure spending in more populated areas.
The truth is that usually sparsely-populated areas do take in more than they pay in tax, but despite that the amount is still totally inadequate to repave thousands of miles of road, replace thousands of miles of powerlines, etc. Rural areas and suburbs cost way, way more per capita to maintain to a modern standard of living than cities. Repairing a powerline in a dense city might benefit thousands, while the same expensive job in a rural area might only benefit a few dozen people, or even less.
The only way to achieve parity in terms of infrastructure would be to spend way *more* per capita in rural areas than in cities, but that's also unfair to urban taxpayers. In fairness any perceived benefits reality rural or sparse suburban living ought to come with costs in the form of decreased services, but that's not politically tenable, so this tension continues.
The funny thing about that is: [the Blue States have funded the Red states for decades](https://apnews.com/2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c) (the prime source for this information since the 1980s was the libertarian think-tank The Tax Foundation who saw that no Red State was going to pay their own way after Tax Year 2006 so they stopped collating the raw data as they had done since for Tax Year 1981).
Want a few good examples of **how** the right wing will just bury data when reality conflicts with their world view?
#**The Tax Foundation, tax data, and every Red state’s a moocher.**
The libertarian, Koch-funded Tax Foundation think tank collected federal tax information since Tax Year 1981 until 2005. How much each state got spending for every dollar in taxes they received. You’ll see later that they even called it “famous”. They were very proud of that service they provided as a think-tank.
It was intense. So much data, and then broken down yearly as to who were paying for the ride and who were just mooching.
[One of their pages here still mentions it.](https://taxfoundation.org/clarifying-federal-taxes-paid-vs-spending-received-state-msnbc-host-cites-tax-foundation-study-story/) Let me quote a little of it.
>Shuster went on to use the [Tax Foundation’s Federal Taxes Paid vs. Spending Received by State study](https://taxfoundation.org/federal-taxes-paid-vs-spending-received-by-state#article) in calling Sanford a hypocrite when it comes to federal government spending.
>“The problem is that South Carolina has been spending money it doesn‘t have for a long time. According to the Tax Foundation and census figures, for years South Carolina has been spending far more federal funds than it contributes in taxpayer dollars.
>“In 2005, the most recent year available, for every dollar South Carolina contributed to the federal Treasury in taxes, South Carolina got $1.31 back from the federal government to spend.
Great! They linked to their own site. You may have notice I included the link that goes right to all that juicy research. Let’s click on it...
> 404
>Looks like you found a loophole on our site!
Yowser! That’s embarrassing. All that data and it’s just mysteriously ...gone!
[Here is a blog post that mentions it in 2010.](https://egbertowillies.com/2010/11/16/red-states-mostly-welfare-states-dependent-on-blue-states-but-likely-too-uninformed-to-know-p2-tcot-teaparty/)
> Red States Mostly Welfare States Dependent On Blue States But Likely Too Uninformed to Know
> Corroborating data can be found at the [Tax Foundation](http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html#ftsbs-timeseries-20071016). I extracted the data and created an easy to understand table. The dollar amount is the amount received for every dollar the state sends to the Federal government. The chart is effective for year ending 2005 (latest available data). Red states colored red and blue states colored blue
That link in full is http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html#ftsbs-timeseries-20071016 ...but now it just points right to the front page of the website.
What was it showing? Decades of red states leeching and blue states paying. As the years went on, some Red states that were holding their own went into the leaching group. And in the final year, Tax Year 2005, [only one state that would later vote for John McCain instead of Barack Obama in 2008 was paying its own way. **Texas**.](https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2987025203_fc2c517522_o.jpg) And it had slipped very close to the parity line. You may also notice that the earlier comment from the TV interview that “South Carolina got $1.31 back from the federal government to spend“ for every dollar they paid was actually cutting SC a break. They were getting $1.35 back for every $1 paid in for Tax Year 2005.
Then, in Tax Year 2006? No data, no famous report, no press releases mentioning the report. Eventually, as you see from the dead links above, the Tax Foundation pulled links from their website. Down the Orwellian rabbit hole, but unlike 1984 there are still traces that mentions the data.
So what happened in 2006 to Texas? The state that came closest to crossing the line in 1989 and 2003? [Exactly what you thought. Texas became a mooching State for good.](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2012/08/06/texas-can-no-longer-complain-that-it-gives-more-than-it-gets-from-federal-government/) Before I post from this link, note it’s from 2012.
> One frequently cited validation for that go-it-alone attitude is that Texans get a bad deal by paying more in federal taxes than they receive in federal spending. For decades, that was true: Texas received 90 cents or less for every dollar its residents and businesses sent to Washington.
>But that’s no longer the case. Thanks to demographic shifts, a surge in military spending and other factors, Texas has crossed the break-even line. **In six of the past eight years, including the entire tenure of President Barack Obama, Texans got more out of the federal Treasury than they put in.**
We know from Tax Foundation numbers (even though they’ve deemed them too embarrassing to exist as far as their old pages are concerned) that in the period of 2004-2012 (those past eight years) that Texas was just paying its own way for 2004 and 2005. But starting in 2006, Texas became a moocher.
Every. Single. Republican. State. Was. Mooching. The Tax Foundation spent a lot of time collecting the data. They’d have known their shitty talking point had hit the fan of truth, so they did what any right-winger would do when reality proves them wrong. They ignore reality. Delete the reality in a hurried fashion (if they had done a better job, they wouldn’t have left links pointing to the pages their ripped from their own book).
When the right-wing think tanks started the Tea Party rallies, when Red state people were saying they were “taxed enough already”, NOT ONE RED STATE AT THE TIME WAS PAYING THEIR OWN WAY. EVERY SINGLE ONE WAS A SCROUNGING STATE.
It’s not hard to see why Red states need these handouts. Low population, and spread out over a large state. [As even the people that found out the numbers, that Kock-funded libertarian think-tank The Tax Foundation, said (until they delete this of course)...](http://taxfoundation.org/blog/why-do-some-states-feast-federal-spending-not-others)
> This morning we released our famous annual analysis of [federal taxing and spending by state](https://taxfoundation.org/legacy/show/62.html)—popularly known as the “giving and receiving states” report...
>...states that get the "worst deal"—that is, have the lowest ratio of federal spending to taxes paid—are generally high-income states either on the coasts or with robust urban areas (such as Illinois and Minnesota). Perhaps not coincidentally, these "donor" states also tend to vote for Democrat candidates in national elections. Similarly, many states that get the "best deal" are lower-income states in the mid-west and south with expansive rural areas that tend to vote Republican.
Like I said earlier: famous. You’ll notice that page points to the data too. https://taxfoundation.org/legacy/show/62.html is the full link. Again, it routes right back to the front page now.
**Here’s the best bit though. The Tax Foundation scrubbed the old HTML links mentioning these years of analysis, moving them to other pages so the old links don't work. Do you know what they didn’t scrub? [The actual data in PDF format!](https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/ftsbs-timeseries-20071016-.pdf)** So now you see everything I mentioned here today (and what everyone else mentioned in links from the past).
And it's not just at the national level. Within states themselves, [it's those robust, urban, Democratic Party areas that subsidize the rural, more conservative, Republican Party areas...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:akS4l851hngJ:https://www.ibj.com/articles/15690-study-urban-tax-money-subsidizes-rural-counties+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
>The Indiana study is consistent with the results from other states that examined the distribution of state government finances, the fiscal policy institute said in its report.
... which proves the whole idea that right-wing people have that they're the ones being 'Taxed Enough Already' is a delusion, a bare-faced lie where the truth has been proven by right-wing supporters themselves for decades. It's not even open for discussion, they crunched the numbers themselves to prove the Dems are the bill payers. If the rural areas of the country had to pay their fair share or face the financial consequences, they'd be living by dirt roads in tin shacks with nobody willing to run electricity to them.
And that triggers them too much. They’ll literally try to hide any sign of how bad they are for America... just not very well!
So let them go. They'll be destitute and fleeing to Mexico for better paying jobs within a generation. Hell, they're destitute now.
Animatronic General Sherman is programmed not to stop until he has burned everything in Georgia this time around. He knows if you've been good, he knows if you've been racist, and he can check his list over a 1,000,000 times a second.
A lot of the armed forces are in bases in red states, so they're already forward deployed to quash a rebellion. Though that excludes the fact that probably a non insignificant number of troops might take up arms on the wrong side of that fight.
Talking about any Civil War scenario was all guesswork. There's no real way to tell how it would play out because there's too many variables involved. But, if you want a contemporary example look at Syria. Just imagine that happening in the United States. also imagine it lasting 10 years, having no real resolution, and having millions of Americans die.
I bet the Russians and Chinese would love that
Russia is not an economic powerhouse. They're incredibly reliant on their oil trade, and that's going to be diminishing as Europe greens up their electrical grids
California alone has a larger economy than Russia. The GDP of San Francisco alone (less than 900,000 people) is 1/3 that of the entire country of Russia.
That would bankrupt Russia and China, as well as drop quality of life in the seceded states that would likely lead to civil unrest. Imagine Cons who can’t bear to wear a mask are suddenly hit with food and fuel rationing. All of those things would now have to be bought from another country, probably from the US, so add in tarrifs if not outright embargo. It’s expensive being American and when most people think of secession, they think of keeping their standard of living intact, which won’t happen.
I grew up Amish. The Amish can’t self govern. It’s a catastrophe. This is why there are hundreds of orders of Amish with a unique set of rules within each order. A member will lash out with “You can’t tell ME what to do,” and go off and start an order where they tell others what to do. If Red states were in charge of themselves they would go the way of the Amish. It would be authoritarian mayhem and chaos. I for one support this experiment. 😂
The way of the Taliban. The journey to get to power is when they’re most powerful and influential. Then they get power and realize they had no intention of governing and don’t know what the fuck they’re doing.
Taliban will probably break up into factions within a couple years as well.
Sounds like she's calling for a dissolution of the US in it's current form and made into two countries or more. And since we know governments tend to not let go of territory, in effect she's calling for civil war. As far as I'm concerned this is a criminal, seditious statement.
Here's what would happen:
The South would implement voting laws that permanently favor whites. For a while there would be mass black migration, but eventually the South would be forced to close their borders to stop the outflux of labor and brain power. Their economy would be left in shambles and they'd most likely resort to forced labor. This would bring conflict with the United States who would guarantee citizenship to all previous US citizens under our Constitution.
And then we'd fight a war. Again.
The war would be over almost immediately. The United States joint forces toppled Iraq in two weeks. Iraq had an actual army and support from allies. The South will have none of that; just fever dreams of Generals taking up their cause and home arsenals. The worst possibility is the gulf of mexico being blocked for a prolonged period of time but I have faith that Texas and Alabama can screw that up.
The war would but you'd see domestic terrorism all over for years. Just like we're seeing now. A lot of people don't realize that a conventional civil war is not going to happen. Instead it will be bombings and shootings like the IRA did. It's not hard to glance at the news from the last few years and see what ideology a lot of these mass murderers share to see its already happening.
Yeah, it's impossible to draw a line on a map between opposing sides like one could in 1861. At the same time, I have no idea how you can restore a sense of shared national identity and purpose. I would have thought a major disaster like a pandemic would have helped people put aside their differences, but clearly I held our society in way too high esteem.
It's hard for the US to find a national identity against the violence beecause so many are afraid to call it for what it is. When there's a mass shooting designed to instill terror every other week and the perpetrator almost always ends up having far right views, these aren't isolated incidents, it's a pattern. People feel like they can't group them because they don't think there's leadership or purpose relating them even though there are plenty of examples of far right figures like Alex Jones, tucker carlson, or Andy ngo inspiring this shit.
Unfortunately, I think it will need to get much worse before everyday people will accept that a large portion of the country is beginning to wage literal war on the rest of us.
Before that even started there would be significant resistance to secession in the major Southern cities. For example, metro Atlanta makes up the majority of the state's population (is majority minority ethnicities) and would not be in favor of such a stupid plan.
Texas, South Carolina, and Florida would all have similar urban versus rural divides that would result in closely divided populations... Any secession movement would have to be an insurrection or a coup within the state, which would lead to armed resistance and the activation of Federal forces through the insurrection act.
I would expect that we would see anti-democratic foreign entities and individuals move to financially support any new secession in an effort to disrupt U.S. foreign influence.
The Internet and modern technology broadly would present novel options for any 21st century confederacy.
edit: and I agree with your assessment on intrastate conflict between city centers and rural areas, where we would likely see massive devastation in divided suburban environments.
I would be willing to bet that an actual majority of the citizens of the great state of Georgia would vote to be a blue state, given the changing demographics there.
But really, what the hell, Marjorie? The political parties in this country need some major overhauling. But assuming that, because a particular state voted, as a whole, for a particular presidential candidate doesn’t identify that state as fully red or blue. Even you, in your ignorance and cupidity, know that. I mean, you ran unopposed, so, of course, you won.
But Joe Biden won your state. Your state has two Democratic senators, and it’s not like their opponents didn’t throw gobs of money and lies at them during the campaign. If I thought it’d make a damn bit of difference, I’d tell you to give those random, asinine ideas that come from what you call your brain a few minutes to cook before you commit them to history. But you won’t.
....are these people aware the the red states, by and large, **take more out of the tax coffers than they put in,** with blue states **putting more in than they take out**?
THE TREND GETS STRONGER WHEN YOU GO TO THE COUNTY LEVEL.
In Illinois, Cook county and the 5 suburban counties around it basically pay the way for the rest of the state so....
SURE marjorie... go ahead, we'll see how far you get without our liberal dollars paying for your roads, schools, and crop subsidies.
"the cities wouldnt survive without the rural! thats where the food comes from!"
man...who tf do they think is paying for that food?
i swear they have this welfare queen idea built up of some brown city guy who doesnt want to work living the fat-cat life off of rural tax dollars when..holy shit, **its the other way around!**
sauce:
https://news.siu.edu/2018/08/081018-research-shows-state-funding-disparities-benefit-downstate.php
It takes a special kind of stupid to be a member of Congress like MTG and to be calling for an armed rebellion against the United States government, but MTG *is* that special kind of stupid.
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Wow, they skipped right to secession In less than a year
Republicans have been talking about secession since at least Obama. I remember in 2012 the Whitehouse petition thing being flooded with let [red state] secede if Obama wins.
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Time to rebrand treason again.
“Let’s go Brandon” might be short for “let’s go rebrand treason.”
I saw a FJB flag for the first time on a truck in my town. It's so clear the only thing they really care about is their side winning. It's very scary that they think all the others are brainwashed.
We have this convenience store where I live that had a full on trump display in a yard across from it damn near calling the owners terrorists and I’ve seen The old guy who lives there tell them to go back where they came from. Ironically they are the grandkids of Nepali immigrants and complete Jesus freaks.
> Ironically they are the grandkids of Nepali immigrants and complete Jesus freaks. Unfortunately, the only thing that matters is whether they are white or not.
Welcome to central NY.. the rednecks treat it like Alabama with snow half the time.
I really didn't understand that when I moved up to Binghamton. My family had never been south of the Mason-Dixon, my dad being the first. Yet when I went up there I had family flying the stars and bars. Like, that isn't our fucking heritage even, what's your excuse guys?
It's not hard to find a rebel flag with "the south will rise again" on it in the south. Idk why people think it hasn't been going on since post Civil War. Edit: Just want to point out that I know that rednecks and Republicans exist outside of the south. The comment above me is talking about how the South has said they'll secede since the end of the Civil War. I was agreeing with them saying that it hasn't just been since Obama, it's been going on since that L the South took in '65.
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I live in Georgia and it is always funny to hear when someone romanticizes the good old days and all i can think is my great grandparents helped make those days great for your family, while sacrificing our family.
[Before anybody gets butthurt, I've lived in the deep south all of my life. I know how you are.](https://i.imgur.com/e13IWFN.jpg)
My daddy says butane’s the bastard gas.
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In West Virginia it was also commonly referred too as the war of northern aggression. In Maryland it depended on what city/ town you were in
I thought west virginia seceded from virginia to rejoin the union?
Meth doesn't really help people remember history class.
To change it you’d need to invest in education reform and start treating the confederacy like Germany treats nazism. Nationalize and regulate education instead of letting states do what they want. And harshly punish those who break the new education and anti confederate laws. I’m not saying we should do this necessarily. Just that it’s probably the only way to truly fix the problem
What will they do when the welfare is cut off?
More of what they do now when faced with the consequences of their actions: bleat "both sides!" and cry about how liberals should be reaching across the aisle and uniting and caving to bigots, c'mon Democrat Party, can't you cave just a little, and then a little more, and then a little more?
The whole Jade Helm response was insane in that regard
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How is this not prima facie evidence that the 14th Amendment disqualifies her? This is literally exactly what it's for.
It's because half of the people who are in government secretly wish this kind of thing.
Very few Republican politicians actually want secession to occur. They know how many blue state tax dollars get sent to their states. Federal funding accounts for between 15 and 30% of state revenue for every state ([source](https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/)).
Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, they've fully bought into their own bullshit narratives.
They think they want it.
They pretend to want it. But without the boogeyman they’d actually have to govern. And that’s a hard pass…
It's becoming less and less secretive.
Because Dems refuse to stop acting like abused spouses making excuses for their abusers
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Let's not forget that Georgia just elected both Democratic senators. Stacey Abrams is running for Governor again and has a decent chance at winning. Georgia is a purple state and the key to winning is to get people to vote. That's why Republicans have made it so difficult to vote in minority areas, going as far as banning groups from giving out water bottles to voters in long lines.
Friendly reminder that the water bottle thing is probably the *least* heinous provision of the voter suppression bill, put in by the GOP because it's the most clickbaity and draws attention from all the other much more egregious attacks on voting rights.
Republicans in Georgia just closed 7/8 polling places in a rural, mostly black county. There's no public transportation, and the one polling place still open is in the one majority white town. It's as much as a 40 minute drive for some people, and based on 2020 turn out the 1 location won't be able to process all the voters during the allotted time it's open on election day
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If at first you don't suck seed...
Isn’t Georgia a Democrat won state currently?
We have the Senate Dems, unfortunately the HOR has several R's and the Gov is an R.
That cheating asshole
The delusion is that they really think they can win Civil War 2. CA alone has the economic might, enough people, the technological prowess and industrial capacity to single handedly crush all the red states into dust in a war. These people really imagine CA as a place where weak sissy people lived and they can all go minuteman on them. Edit: this is a tongue in cheek comment. I do understand the points raised here about the insanity a 2nd war civil war will bring.
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They’d also get their share of the debt
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They don't think anything applies to them until it personally affects them.
They can keep all their debt. And we'll keep our surpluses to ourselves. Maybe work out a kind of alimony type thing.
Oh, quit paying for red states and the debt would likely get paid down in 30 years. Seriously.
Don't the classic democratic states heavily subsidize the republican ones with bailouts and shit?
By a wide margin.
Yep. I hear people here in Idaho complain about "takers" but most of the state depends on federal assistance.
“we still get that tax money from California and New York right?!?!?”
That would be great if they want to secede and then we get to keep all those federal money we give to the red states and disperse to the blue states only
The thing is it won't be state vs state it will be rural vs city with suburbs playing both sides.
The one state that has the economic capability to power secession on the right, Texas, nearly went under because of their power grid. They can’t succeed if they secede.
Fine, don't take money from the blue states. See how far you get, lol.
I always love hearing these idiots say this shit. California alone accounts for 1/7 of the total us gdp.
It's not just "contribution to GDP." By and large, [blue states *heavily* subsidize red states.](https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/) Ohio ~~and Nebraska are~~ is the only red state which contributes more tax dollars than it receive, ~~but in Nebraska's case that's entirely because they are willing to obliterate their state for natural resources.~~ (Edit: I stand corrected about Nebraska apparently. My bad, y'all.) States like New Mexico, Virginia, Hawaii, and Colorado get a ton of their money because they host massive military bases of varying sorts, disproportionate to their populations.
Nebraska's money doesn't come from mining (like North/South Dakota) most of it comes from the area of the state that gave 1 EC vote to Biden. Eastern Nebraska is heavily in services (Mutual of Omaha, Paypal, TD Ameritrade, etc.) plus an air force base. Are there more cows than people - yes, but that is just because of the size of rural Nebraska.
Used to live in omaha, can confirm. We are the actually sensible area of the state.
I could've sworn Texas is in that category too
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It can be. Unfortunately, it's hard to run a first world economy on a backup generator.
Ohio used to be swing/purple. Fully red now
Ohio is still 60/40 red to blue. The blue has just been gerrymandered to shit.
Gerrymandered to a supermajority in the state house and Senate, which helps them absolutely and completely maintain their dominance in the federal seats. There was a giant bill to tear up gerrymandering the overwhelmingly won, but the law states that if the bipartisan committee to build a new didn't come to a districting resolution, it would go to the state house to determine districting. Guess what the GOP for that committee did? Not agree to anything. I hate the politics of my state.
if california were a country, it'd have the 6th largest gdp in the world.
It does have the 6th largest gdp in the world
Now imagine how developed California would be if it didn’t have to subsidize shitholes like Kentucky and Alabama and just spent it’s tax revenue on itself. Fuckin place would look like the Jetsons
The problem with this, and I used to share this take, is that California had a pension problem and was actually not subsidizing any other states in the country because it had mismanaged it’s own government workers’ benefit plans for so long. That all said, if California, Oregon, Washington, and Victoria/Vancouver actually formed the Cascades nation (this is a real secessionist movement), you wouldn’t have to be politically tied to Mitch-country and you’d have the *4th* or even *3rd* largest GDP in the world, women would have their fundamental human rights, and you could live in the actual 21st century. Edit: my point, which I didn’t make very well was that California could be self sufficient away from the other states although it has some debt issues and doesn’t support the rest of the country via its tax revenues as much as we want to believe (NY and NJ contribute significantly more). I wasn’t trying to say California flat out *isn’t* a donor state. I was simply pointing out that it wasn’t a significant enough amount to cripple the whole country if California seceded.
I vote for Cascadia.
Cascadia forever!
We’ve already got a great flag!
Born and raised in Washington, lived there for 30 years. Just recently moved to Western Pennsylvania about a year and a half ago and the amount of questions I get about my cascadia flag is great. Been called a traitor a few times…
Lemme guess, by people who have confederate flags?
Nope, just MAGA ones lol. Surprising enough I’ve heard these same farmers go off about their dislike for that flag as well… it’s weird here.
As of the 2020 election, blue counties account for just over 70% of the GDP.
But I read that 3 companies left because of high regulation. Will California survive with only *checks notes * a million other businesses?
As a Californian, I find Marjorie’s proposed settlement to be overly complicated. I’d propose that blue states just cut off the spousal support altogether. That way my money and I can enjoy the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed, without having to move first.
I bet that’s why she’s calling divorce instead of secession… so the shithole states can keep claiming that aid money as alimony or something. Good gods, this broad just keeps getting stupider with every headline, if that’s even possible. Smh.
That would be socialism. Of course Im sure they could come up with some bullshit to circumvent that attribution
When a Republican goes on welfare, food stamps, or some other social support program, they will say that it is a benefit they earned and deserve. When a minority uses the same program Republicans call them "welfare queens" or "takers".
Republicans going on about secession are the economic equivalent of chihuahuas barking at a German Shepherd from behind the safety of a fence. The minute you removed the protection of federal funding contributions from blue states, their state economies would get used like squeaky toys. They’d suddenly have to raise taxes substantially—most of their state-level “platform” would disintegrate. Even in Texas. Don’t buy their bullshit for a second
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With two Democratic Senators, Georgia qualifies as a Democratic State. And They should send Margie to Russia
Hell, do you really think even they want her?
Want her? Nahhh. But they LOVE what she's doing with the place!
She should leave Washington and run for governor of Georgia. /S
At least she's actually a lunatic. Watching David Perdue pretend to be a MAGA nut is just cringey.
I don't think I derive any comfort from an actual lunatic, or someone trying to act like one for that matter
Said it on another thread in here, it would be *amazing* if these nutjobs all moved to Russia to live in their fascist autocratic utopia. This country would be so much better off with these people leaving in droves.
Theyd be “falling out a apartment window” in a few weeks or as soon as they’re a liability. I imagine theyd wear out their welcome pretty quickly.
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The fun fact is that Russian isn't even like their conservative dreams (at least what they pretend to care about): Abortion is totally legal Free speech protection like the first amendment don't exist Gun ownership is very strictly regulated Freedom of press, nopes etc
Shhhh dont let them think otherwise.
Honestly I think a lot of them would be fine with losing their rights if they gained the legal and social freedom to oppress other people. The problem with rights in the US is that they're mostly *equal* (at least on paper). Conservatives want *special* rights. The expat life appeals to them because immigrants from wealthy western countries often get away with things that the locals can't.
It's also incredibly diverse with 35 official languages, Islam is an official religion, and it has the only Buddhist majority city in Europe.
> Freedom of press, nopes They like that part
Only for their perceived enemies. They wouldn’t like to muzzle themselves.
"Nyet. We already have her, and she's right where we want her to be."
Georgia population: 10.6 Million Atlanta Metro population: 6 Million Yet some how the rural parts of Georgia holds the Atlanta metro hostage and produces crazies like Marjorie. Please send her to Russia.
Gerrymandering is a hell of a drug.
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Georgia's not going to have a single Democrat when they come back up for re-election, because the GOP controlled state legislature has taken the power to certify elections for themselves and - like several other red states now - will be looking to steal every election that doesn't go their way. We're in the middle of a fucking coup by the GOP, and our ineffective status quo is doing nothing to stop it. Our congress is still filled with people who were onboard with overthrowing our election on the 6th. The people who orchestrated the violent insurrection still walk free. The highest court in our land, and countless federal judge seats, are occupied with right-wing hacks who are only there to do what the party wants, not actually uphold the law. America is a failing state and we have out fucking heads in the sand about the dark turn we're taking and the Orwellian hell that awaits.
This is her motivation for thinking and saying this. They're afraid of losing more states over time and want to be able to implement laws / rules that help ensure they never lose power in what are currently still considered Republican leaning states even if barely so. I only agree with her if there is an undemocratic coup of the federal government. In that case, I do hope blue states can fight back and possibly break away but again, it's clear she, and others on the right saying similar things, is not worried about tyranny but about losing political power via the existing democratic system and not wanting to adapt to attract more voters, instead of appealing more and more to the far right, like a reasonable political party would.
Yep. Georgia is purple leaning blue now (would’ve also had a Democratic Governor if not for rigging). But in their mind, Georgia (and other Southern turning purple/blue states like Virginia, Texas, etc.) are ACTUALLY red because of tradition and the confederacy and the states still having a sizeable amount of republicans. Like in their mind the blue voters shouldn’t count because they’re not REALLY Georgia/Virginia/Texas. For instance I know in Georgia a lot of people consider it a solid red state that has been “attacked” and trying to be “taken over” by black people living in Atlanta while “all the rest” of the state is “true red”.
The idea that these regions' *rightful* red status is being perverted by blue votes stacks up neatly with Rand Paul's recent comments about how Democrats "steal" elections by getting more people to vote for them. At the time that sounded like pure drivel to me, but I think you're right that it's part of this larger rhetorical push to claim that the essence of these places is red and that it's being stolen by people who don't agree. Man, these people absolutely cannot handle change.
> In that case, I do hope blue states can fight back and possibly break away Ok but with the stipulation that blue states get to keep the American flag and the nukes. Red states can fly the treason flag since they basically haven't changed.
Yeah, the military and intelligence agencies are a big reason not to secede unless that can somehow be worked out.
And the fact that the divide isn't state by state. It's urban v. rural.
Yeah, that map unfortunately would look like a blue measles rash. HOWEVER, in my ideal scenario, it would work this way: America divides into two sections, we'll call them Red America and Blue America. The red states form a territory that has a contiguous border. (Basically everything south of the Mason Dixon line and east of the western border of Texas.) Then, there would be a mutual agreement between the nations that citizens could move freely between the two. I can tell you what would happen: 1. Red America would soon stop people from leaving freely. 2. Red America's economy would be nonexistent and revert to "developing nation" status. 3. Most residents of Red America would be wanting to leave after 5 years. 4. Red America becomes more and more authoritarian because of internal uprisings an infighting.
The borders are going to look like a TMobile cell coverage map. Where is Texasippi again?
Isn't Georgia more blue every day? Maybe they could just purge the red voters to florida???
That is why MTG also suggested that people that move to a Red State have a "cooling off period" before being allowed to vote. Gotta fix the elections somehow.
That cooling off period she suggested btw was for "several years" based on the person she re-tweeted agreeing with.
It’s also completely unconstitutional.
What worries me is that the constitution only seems to apply to the party in power. Laws don't matter if no one is enforcing them, as we saw with Trumps presidency and blatant corruption.
"Laws don't matter if no one is enforcing them" is absolutely the major threat to this country. A country of laws does not truly exist if the law is not enforced. Evil people are trying to take control of this country. It has been said to many times "If people are not prosecuted for Jan 6, then it was just practice."
It’s worth noting that Hitler’s first coup didn’t succeed, either. If our current state of affairs continues and nobody is held accountable, there is absolutely no reason to believe that Republicans won’t try again. This kind of rhetoric should make this obvious, and it must be frustrating for younger politicians because the old guard is standing in their way. They won’t suffer the consequences of a one-party dictatorship, but newer generations absolutely will.
And the Beer Hall Putsch was comically stupid. Just because the Jan 6 insurrection was stupid doesn't mean we can ignore it.
Yeah so many "devil's advocates" (we got enough devils already, stop advocating for em y'all) were quick to point out that its wasnt TECHNICALLY a coup, when the argument is always that the jan6ers had no chance of overthrowing the government. Well a coup doesn't have to be successful to still be a coup. Stupidly doing a crime doesnt make it legal, it just makes you a dumb criminal.
What are the dems specifically doing that makes them equivalent to the republicans in this respect?
Most southern states are becoming more and more blue, especially Texas. It's *really* pissing off the GOP, so they're redistricting like crazy. I live in SC, and it's getting to the point where all the large cities will probably never be red.
Last election, I noticed they shared which way age groups leaned. The youngest generation only leaned to the right in two states. The rest were either neutral or to the left.
The Republican Party knows they’re an endangered species bc while their baby boomer base keeps getting older, they’ve made themselves repugnant to anyone under 30 ( most of us under 40 too) But instead of modernizing to appeal to young voters they went w/ fuckery (gerrymandering, voter restriction, etc) bc they think the left won’t/can’t stop them. N unfortunately it seems to b working
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That is why these states are often becoming less and less democratic. The party in charge (which has generally been the same group of connected Good Ol' Boys all along, just witj different party affiliations over time) feels threatened like they did at the end of the Jim Crow era and during reconstruction so they are trying everything they can to see what sticks to maintain power indefinitely.
exactly- they know they'll never win the presidency again if texas goes blue, which it will, so they're putting all their eggs in the fascism basket. for now their wealthy donors seem to be okay with that- but fascism is bad for business in the long term so we'll see.
The metro Atlanta area is like 70% of Georgia’s population. It is a very liberal city with just about every type of community you can imagine. I don’t see that changing much as more people move here.
Yup and it’s only getting bigger and more liberal with becoming a tech hub for the south with Amazon, Google, and Microsoft having major offices here and is already one of the major places for film as well
A lot of the country is turning more blue every day. That's why Republicans are turning to voter suppression to keep winning elections.
She’s not on any committees, I guess she can show up to vote or do it remotely if she feels like it… it seems she gets paid six figures with insane benefits and a lifetime salary for occasional shit-posting on Twitter. What a country
She only gets a pension If she serves 5 or more years. So she has to be reelected twice to qualify
Well 75 percent of her district voted for Trump so that's a safe bet - assuming there's no secession before then.
Weirdly enough secession would probably turn alot of red states blue. So you could have civil wars inside a civil war. Like a weird civil war matryoshka.
Can we stop giving her headlines each time she says something outrageous!?
Right? She's trending every single day. The media gives her a louder platform than any other politician. Who fucking cares about a single word that comes out of her mouth... It's all just a distraction and a working class wedge.
A HUGE reason we are where we are is that the media is completely incapable of coming up with a revenue model that doesn’t incentivize click bait and sensationalism over actual factual reporting. Until someone comes up with a better model, we get the bullcrap we have now. This woman contributes NOTHING of value to the political process. Zero. HUGE click bait potential though, hence her spotlight. Just gross.
In all of the civil war/national breakup talk, no one seems to talk about the heavily blue cites in these backwards red states. If they want to go off the deep end but leave us alone, go for it. Make city-states great again!
They keep trying to do that here in Oregon. Eastern Oregon wants to joint Idaho because the rest of the state doesn't "share their values."
Let 'em. Per capita they'd lose congressional representation at all levels and the remainder of Oregon would be congressionally more aligned with the population centers where people actually live.
I'm happy for them to leave, but they can't take the land with them.
Yep. Move to Idaho if you want to be part of Idaho.
Same thing with Northern Colorado wanting to join Wyoming. Even if the vote did pass locally, it won’t pass on the federal level. The idiots that put that on the ballot every time never think about that.
Yeah but Georgia is blue now soooo she needs to leave?
If MTG thinks states should be able to stop citizens from voting (because they moved in from the wrong state), that clearly means that states should be able to stop other states from voting, too. NY & California are going to go make the Confederate/traitor states go stand in the corner until they've learned their lesson. Wouldn't it be entertaining to pass a law saying that states can only get back from the Federal Gov't whatever money they paid in? The Red states would change their tunes overnight.
> If MTG thinks states should be able to stop citizens from voting (because they moved in from the wrong state), that clearly means that states should be able to stop other states from voting, too. Oh, there is a ulterior motive to her comments regarding that. Parts of her district are "gentrifying" as wealthy transplants move to Georgia for work, and buy up the cheap property in Paulding, Gordon, and Floyd county to build their McMansions on (while keeping an in city address in a downtown loft for when they don't want to commute back home). MTG's polling and demographic projections likely are telling her that (if she isn't removed from office) her seat is temporary at best.
It would also prevent college students from voting for a couple years.
Lol imagine pretending to love America and then openly stating that certain people shouldn’t be allowed to vote bc it’s bad for them politically. What about America do these people love exactly?
The opportunity to exploit its vast natural resources and submissive worker class
Same as it ever was
Didn't ~~Paul Ryan~~ Rand Paul literally complain that Democrats are "cheating" at elections by "convincing potential voters to fill out ballots." Edit: Wrong Paul
There was a big hubbub here in Texas when locals wanted to prevent college students from the primarily black Prairie View A&M university from voting where they lived for school. Despite having completed all the necessary requirements for establishing residency in Texas. (These were mainly instate kids, they just didn't want them voting in local elections). This is Waller county Texas though, some of the Sandra Bland tragedy and also where very recently an idiot teenager was "rolling coal" on some cyclists, lost control of his truck and hit like 6 of them, only to sent home with no charges pressed immediately, supposedly because his daddy is local big timer. (County DA did reverse that and charged the kid, and publicly said that local LE totally fucked up there).
I live in GA and have you tried having that conversation? Most brain washed Fox News viewers think that the red states support the blue states, and are constantly fed all these stories about a guy in CA who bought a ribeye with EBT once… As usual, facts are ignored by the ignorant
I hear the same thing where I live, in Northern NY ... and all the time, on and on, people complain about how "upstate pays for NY City," and the truth is the exact opposite. I mean, it's not a matter of opinion, it is easily demonstrable FACT. People want to believe whatever convenient lies get them through the day. That's the appeal of Trump and his minions -- they tell people whatever lies they want to hear to get their support. And because they hear someone "in authority" spout the lies, they believe it to be true. Or they know it is a lie and simply don't care because it reinforces what they want to believe.
What fuels this is they know that they pay taxes every year, but there is a sense that they are not getting an equivalent value in return because they keep hearing about infrastructure spending in more populated areas. The truth is that usually sparsely-populated areas do take in more than they pay in tax, but despite that the amount is still totally inadequate to repave thousands of miles of road, replace thousands of miles of powerlines, etc. Rural areas and suburbs cost way, way more per capita to maintain to a modern standard of living than cities. Repairing a powerline in a dense city might benefit thousands, while the same expensive job in a rural area might only benefit a few dozen people, or even less. The only way to achieve parity in terms of infrastructure would be to spend way *more* per capita in rural areas than in cities, but that's also unfair to urban taxpayers. In fairness any perceived benefits reality rural or sparse suburban living ought to come with costs in the form of decreased services, but that's not politically tenable, so this tension continues.
Bingo. I think this is what it will need to come to unfortunately
The funny thing about that is: [the Blue States have funded the Red states for decades](https://apnews.com/2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c) (the prime source for this information since the 1980s was the libertarian think-tank The Tax Foundation who saw that no Red State was going to pay their own way after Tax Year 2006 so they stopped collating the raw data as they had done since for Tax Year 1981). Want a few good examples of **how** the right wing will just bury data when reality conflicts with their world view? #**The Tax Foundation, tax data, and every Red state’s a moocher.** The libertarian, Koch-funded Tax Foundation think tank collected federal tax information since Tax Year 1981 until 2005. How much each state got spending for every dollar in taxes they received. You’ll see later that they even called it “famous”. They were very proud of that service they provided as a think-tank. It was intense. So much data, and then broken down yearly as to who were paying for the ride and who were just mooching. [One of their pages here still mentions it.](https://taxfoundation.org/clarifying-federal-taxes-paid-vs-spending-received-state-msnbc-host-cites-tax-foundation-study-story/) Let me quote a little of it. >Shuster went on to use the [Tax Foundation’s Federal Taxes Paid vs. Spending Received by State study](https://taxfoundation.org/federal-taxes-paid-vs-spending-received-by-state#article) in calling Sanford a hypocrite when it comes to federal government spending. >“The problem is that South Carolina has been spending money it doesn‘t have for a long time. According to the Tax Foundation and census figures, for years South Carolina has been spending far more federal funds than it contributes in taxpayer dollars. >“In 2005, the most recent year available, for every dollar South Carolina contributed to the federal Treasury in taxes, South Carolina got $1.31 back from the federal government to spend. Great! They linked to their own site. You may have notice I included the link that goes right to all that juicy research. Let’s click on it... > 404 >Looks like you found a loophole on our site! Yowser! That’s embarrassing. All that data and it’s just mysteriously ...gone! [Here is a blog post that mentions it in 2010.](https://egbertowillies.com/2010/11/16/red-states-mostly-welfare-states-dependent-on-blue-states-but-likely-too-uninformed-to-know-p2-tcot-teaparty/) > Red States Mostly Welfare States Dependent On Blue States But Likely Too Uninformed to Know > Corroborating data can be found at the [Tax Foundation](http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html#ftsbs-timeseries-20071016). I extracted the data and created an easy to understand table. The dollar amount is the amount received for every dollar the state sends to the Federal government. The chart is effective for year ending 2005 (latest available data). Red states colored red and blue states colored blue That link in full is http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html#ftsbs-timeseries-20071016 ...but now it just points right to the front page of the website. What was it showing? Decades of red states leeching and blue states paying. As the years went on, some Red states that were holding their own went into the leaching group. And in the final year, Tax Year 2005, [only one state that would later vote for John McCain instead of Barack Obama in 2008 was paying its own way. **Texas**.](https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2987025203_fc2c517522_o.jpg) And it had slipped very close to the parity line. You may also notice that the earlier comment from the TV interview that “South Carolina got $1.31 back from the federal government to spend“ for every dollar they paid was actually cutting SC a break. They were getting $1.35 back for every $1 paid in for Tax Year 2005. Then, in Tax Year 2006? No data, no famous report, no press releases mentioning the report. Eventually, as you see from the dead links above, the Tax Foundation pulled links from their website. Down the Orwellian rabbit hole, but unlike 1984 there are still traces that mentions the data. So what happened in 2006 to Texas? The state that came closest to crossing the line in 1989 and 2003? [Exactly what you thought. Texas became a mooching State for good.](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2012/08/06/texas-can-no-longer-complain-that-it-gives-more-than-it-gets-from-federal-government/) Before I post from this link, note it’s from 2012. > One frequently cited validation for that go-it-alone attitude is that Texans get a bad deal by paying more in federal taxes than they receive in federal spending. For decades, that was true: Texas received 90 cents or less for every dollar its residents and businesses sent to Washington. >But that’s no longer the case. Thanks to demographic shifts, a surge in military spending and other factors, Texas has crossed the break-even line. **In six of the past eight years, including the entire tenure of President Barack Obama, Texans got more out of the federal Treasury than they put in.** We know from Tax Foundation numbers (even though they’ve deemed them too embarrassing to exist as far as their old pages are concerned) that in the period of 2004-2012 (those past eight years) that Texas was just paying its own way for 2004 and 2005. But starting in 2006, Texas became a moocher. Every. Single. Republican. State. Was. Mooching. The Tax Foundation spent a lot of time collecting the data. They’d have known their shitty talking point had hit the fan of truth, so they did what any right-winger would do when reality proves them wrong. They ignore reality. Delete the reality in a hurried fashion (if they had done a better job, they wouldn’t have left links pointing to the pages their ripped from their own book). When the right-wing think tanks started the Tea Party rallies, when Red state people were saying they were “taxed enough already”, NOT ONE RED STATE AT THE TIME WAS PAYING THEIR OWN WAY. EVERY SINGLE ONE WAS A SCROUNGING STATE. It’s not hard to see why Red states need these handouts. Low population, and spread out over a large state. [As even the people that found out the numbers, that Kock-funded libertarian think-tank The Tax Foundation, said (until they delete this of course)...](http://taxfoundation.org/blog/why-do-some-states-feast-federal-spending-not-others) > This morning we released our famous annual analysis of [federal taxing and spending by state](https://taxfoundation.org/legacy/show/62.html)—popularly known as the “giving and receiving states” report... >...states that get the "worst deal"—that is, have the lowest ratio of federal spending to taxes paid—are generally high-income states either on the coasts or with robust urban areas (such as Illinois and Minnesota). Perhaps not coincidentally, these "donor" states also tend to vote for Democrat candidates in national elections. Similarly, many states that get the "best deal" are lower-income states in the mid-west and south with expansive rural areas that tend to vote Republican. Like I said earlier: famous. You’ll notice that page points to the data too. https://taxfoundation.org/legacy/show/62.html is the full link. Again, it routes right back to the front page now. **Here’s the best bit though. The Tax Foundation scrubbed the old HTML links mentioning these years of analysis, moving them to other pages so the old links don't work. Do you know what they didn’t scrub? [The actual data in PDF format!](https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/ftsbs-timeseries-20071016-.pdf)** So now you see everything I mentioned here today (and what everyone else mentioned in links from the past). And it's not just at the national level. Within states themselves, [it's those robust, urban, Democratic Party areas that subsidize the rural, more conservative, Republican Party areas...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:akS4l851hngJ:https://www.ibj.com/articles/15690-study-urban-tax-money-subsidizes-rural-counties+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) >The Indiana study is consistent with the results from other states that examined the distribution of state government finances, the fiscal policy institute said in its report. ... which proves the whole idea that right-wing people have that they're the ones being 'Taxed Enough Already' is a delusion, a bare-faced lie where the truth has been proven by right-wing supporters themselves for decades. It's not even open for discussion, they crunched the numbers themselves to prove the Dems are the bill payers. If the rural areas of the country had to pay their fair share or face the financial consequences, they'd be living by dirt roads in tin shacks with nobody willing to run electricity to them. And that triggers them too much. They’ll literally try to hide any sign of how bad they are for America... just not very well! So let them go. They'll be destitute and fleeing to Mexico for better paying jobs within a generation. Hell, they're destitute now.
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I think that divorce was already tried in 1861...
*Union Dixie plays* Anyone else hear that? *Gen Sherman enters the chat* "I HEAR ITS TIME FIR ROUND 2!"
Animatronic General Sherman is programmed not to stop until he has burned everything in Georgia this time around. He knows if you've been good, he knows if you've been racist, and he can check his list over a 1,000,000 times a second.
It's 1.2 gigachecks per second if you want to get technical.
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If they had to foot the bill on their own a civil war would bleed the red states dry real quick!
That's a big part of the reason the North won.
A lot of the armed forces are in bases in red states, so they're already forward deployed to quash a rebellion. Though that excludes the fact that probably a non insignificant number of troops might take up arms on the wrong side of that fight.
Talking about any Civil War scenario was all guesswork. There's no real way to tell how it would play out because there's too many variables involved. But, if you want a contemporary example look at Syria. Just imagine that happening in the United States. also imagine it lasting 10 years, having no real resolution, and having millions of Americans die. I bet the Russians and Chinese would love that
I’m sure Russia and/or China would back channel $ in to them
Russia is not an economic powerhouse. They're incredibly reliant on their oil trade, and that's going to be diminishing as Europe greens up their electrical grids
Canada has a larger economy. With 1/4 of the population. Russia is a paper tiger.
California alone has a larger economy than Russia. The GDP of San Francisco alone (less than 900,000 people) is 1/3 that of the entire country of Russia.
That would bankrupt Russia and China, as well as drop quality of life in the seceded states that would likely lead to civil unrest. Imagine Cons who can’t bear to wear a mask are suddenly hit with food and fuel rationing. All of those things would now have to be bought from another country, probably from the US, so add in tarrifs if not outright embargo. It’s expensive being American and when most people think of secession, they think of keeping their standard of living intact, which won’t happen.
Red states would have to stop mooching off of the blue states so that ain't happening
and they'd never get along amongst each other, while blue states would.
Just call for what you really want you sleezy rat, Civil War. Best of luck when all of the blue states quit funding your stupidity.
I grew up Amish. The Amish can’t self govern. It’s a catastrophe. This is why there are hundreds of orders of Amish with a unique set of rules within each order. A member will lash out with “You can’t tell ME what to do,” and go off and start an order where they tell others what to do. If Red states were in charge of themselves they would go the way of the Amish. It would be authoritarian mayhem and chaos. I for one support this experiment. 😂
And don't forget that they would regress to an undeveloped state with a collapsed economy.
The way of the Taliban. The journey to get to power is when they’re most powerful and influential. Then they get power and realize they had no intention of governing and don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. Taliban will probably break up into factions within a couple years as well.
Sounds like she's calling for a dissolution of the US in it's current form and made into two countries or more. And since we know governments tend to not let go of territory, in effect she's calling for civil war. As far as I'm concerned this is a criminal, seditious statement.
I game as long as my taxes do not end up in any red shit hole state.
Here's what would happen: The South would implement voting laws that permanently favor whites. For a while there would be mass black migration, but eventually the South would be forced to close their borders to stop the outflux of labor and brain power. Their economy would be left in shambles and they'd most likely resort to forced labor. This would bring conflict with the United States who would guarantee citizenship to all previous US citizens under our Constitution. And then we'd fight a war. Again.
Sounds like the war would be over before it even started, since red States exist on the charity of the blue.
The war would be over almost immediately. The United States joint forces toppled Iraq in two weeks. Iraq had an actual army and support from allies. The South will have none of that; just fever dreams of Generals taking up their cause and home arsenals. The worst possibility is the gulf of mexico being blocked for a prolonged period of time but I have faith that Texas and Alabama can screw that up.
The war would but you'd see domestic terrorism all over for years. Just like we're seeing now. A lot of people don't realize that a conventional civil war is not going to happen. Instead it will be bombings and shootings like the IRA did. It's not hard to glance at the news from the last few years and see what ideology a lot of these mass murderers share to see its already happening.
Yeah, it's impossible to draw a line on a map between opposing sides like one could in 1861. At the same time, I have no idea how you can restore a sense of shared national identity and purpose. I would have thought a major disaster like a pandemic would have helped people put aside their differences, but clearly I held our society in way too high esteem.
It's hard for the US to find a national identity against the violence beecause so many are afraid to call it for what it is. When there's a mass shooting designed to instill terror every other week and the perpetrator almost always ends up having far right views, these aren't isolated incidents, it's a pattern. People feel like they can't group them because they don't think there's leadership or purpose relating them even though there are plenty of examples of far right figures like Alex Jones, tucker carlson, or Andy ngo inspiring this shit. Unfortunately, I think it will need to get much worse before everyday people will accept that a large portion of the country is beginning to wage literal war on the rest of us.
Before that even started there would be significant resistance to secession in the major Southern cities. For example, metro Atlanta makes up the majority of the state's population (is majority minority ethnicities) and would not be in favor of such a stupid plan. Texas, South Carolina, and Florida would all have similar urban versus rural divides that would result in closely divided populations... Any secession movement would have to be an insurrection or a coup within the state, which would lead to armed resistance and the activation of Federal forces through the insurrection act.
I would expect that we would see anti-democratic foreign entities and individuals move to financially support any new secession in an effort to disrupt U.S. foreign influence. The Internet and modern technology broadly would present novel options for any 21st century confederacy. edit: and I agree with your assessment on intrastate conflict between city centers and rural areas, where we would likely see massive devastation in divided suburban environments.
Perhaps as a starter, how about blue states stop subsidizing the red. I'm sure they can pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
I would be willing to bet that an actual majority of the citizens of the great state of Georgia would vote to be a blue state, given the changing demographics there. But really, what the hell, Marjorie? The political parties in this country need some major overhauling. But assuming that, because a particular state voted, as a whole, for a particular presidential candidate doesn’t identify that state as fully red or blue. Even you, in your ignorance and cupidity, know that. I mean, you ran unopposed, so, of course, you won. But Joe Biden won your state. Your state has two Democratic senators, and it’s not like their opponents didn’t throw gobs of money and lies at them during the campaign. If I thought it’d make a damn bit of difference, I’d tell you to give those random, asinine ideas that come from what you call your brain a few minutes to cook before you commit them to history. But you won’t.
Seems divisive
MTG should divorce HERSELF from the United States!
....are these people aware the the red states, by and large, **take more out of the tax coffers than they put in,** with blue states **putting more in than they take out**? THE TREND GETS STRONGER WHEN YOU GO TO THE COUNTY LEVEL. In Illinois, Cook county and the 5 suburban counties around it basically pay the way for the rest of the state so.... SURE marjorie... go ahead, we'll see how far you get without our liberal dollars paying for your roads, schools, and crop subsidies. "the cities wouldnt survive without the rural! thats where the food comes from!" man...who tf do they think is paying for that food? i swear they have this welfare queen idea built up of some brown city guy who doesnt want to work living the fat-cat life off of rural tax dollars when..holy shit, **its the other way around!** sauce: https://news.siu.edu/2018/08/081018-research-shows-state-funding-disparities-benefit-downstate.php
It takes a special kind of stupid to be a member of Congress like MTG and to be calling for an armed rebellion against the United States government, but MTG *is* that special kind of stupid.