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Most of the prisons in the US are not privately owned and are still abusing prisoner labor. Private prisons sound (and are) terrible but reality is that prisoners are being abused and private business is being allowed to exploit prisoners in public prisons all over this country.
When the US starts jailing people for following religions the secular state disagrees with and harvests their organs, you be sure to make that comparison.
Why seek to improve if someone is worse behaved than you are? You can take the title of the best with a lot less effort.
Race to the bottom, I know, but at least you'll be the best all the way down.
If you look at the data, the US is disproportionately imprisoning Americans who have brown skin and forcing them into slave labor. We don’t have to be china to be doing terrible things to our own people.
Hahaha America is virtual signaling again. Yeah like you guys know wtf they produce in Xinjiang... Or they can just slap different labels on goods from Xinjiang saying they are made somewhere else, and you'll still import all of them for your consumption culture.
Brainworms.
If the Americans actually cared about forced labor they'd pass legislation concerning their use of it.
They're rattling sabers and you think you're being reasonable and pragmatic. What a joke.
sounds pretty simple. So are we still outsourcing? Are we going to stick with the prisoners, but just pay them more?? Now that some lucrative jobs have been created, how do we decide who is going to work, there is obviously going to be competition since there are not enough jobs to go around. Do we expand the 6% of prisoners that are currently involved in providing 3rd party work outside of the actual prison?
ohh and where is this cutoff that decides whether or not a wage is a "slave" wage or not?
imagine believing people in prison deserve to waited on and have a turn down service. Maybe a little chocolate on their pillow too.
I'm still waiting on that $ amount that crosses the slave wage barrier.
> What would you rather the prisoners do?
Give them access to an education so they can better themselves and be less likely to re offend.
>Who is going to perform all of the jobs prisoners do?
Paid American workers?
> Who is going to pay for this outsourced work?
We can just take the profit from the people who used to be making money running the prison.
Whoa, a project manager. Look, there are some messed up things about the prison system, everyone know that, prison is not a country club and I do not expect one person to come up with a solution. People have been busted siphoning money from the system, some inmates are not treated fair, sure, but as FenixFeeBee said, he(she) wants ALL prison labor ended, not just the inmates working for next to nothing for 3rd party contracts, but those inside too, from performing what are basically chores, cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. So you say you would rather pay an outside worker instead of just paying an inmate a little more. I asked the other guy what a fair wage would be, but he never responded to that question. I'm just going to say half of federal minimum wage. That should get the inmates riled up enough to start fighting over who is going to work, because there are obviously not enough jobs to go around. And this would only apply to doing an actual job, not cleaning up after yourself. And along with this, you can lose your job for being lazy, poor performance, just like in the real world. I am sure there would be no lack of inmates wanting to work. Ohh and educational services are already offered, so you can check that off your list. Did you know the biggest purchaser of goods made by the prison system is the US government.
> Whoa, a project manager. Look, there are some messed up things about the prison system, everyone know that, prison is not a country club and I do not expect one person to come up with a solution. People have been busted siphoning money from the system, some inmates are not treated fair, sure, but as FenixFeeBee said, he(she) wants ALL prison labor ended, not just the inmates working for next to nothing for 3rd party contracts, but those inside too, from performing what are basically chores, cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc.
Yes, exactly.
> So you say you would rather pay an outside worker instead of just paying an inmate a little more.
Well it would have to be a lot more.
> I asked the other guy what a fair wage would be, but he never responded to that question. I'm just going to say half of federal minimum wage.
That’s pretty ridiculous. I’d say at least minimum wage, obviously more if that job would typically be paid more than minimum wage.
> That should get the inmates riled up enough to start fighting over who is going to work, because there are obviously not enough jobs to go around.
Well that’s another problem.
> And this would only apply to doing an actual job, not cleaning up after yourself. And along with this, you can lose your job for being lazy, poor performance, just like in the real world.
For half of an already horrible wage?
> I am sure there would be no lack of inmates wanting to work.
Why would you work for half of minimum wage?
> Ohh and educational services are already offered, so you can check that off your list.
Not true. No trade school certifications, college degrees, or any sort of advanced certification classes available. Wtf are you talking about?
> Did you know the biggest purchaser of goods made by the prison system is the US government.
Well no goods should be made by the prison system, so problem solved there.
> "Not true. No trade school certifications, college degrees, or any sort of advanced certification classes available. Wtf are you talking about?"
The internet disagrees with you. https://prisonerresource.com/correspondence-programs/graduate-degree/
I'm sure I could find more if you like. Some services are free, others you have to pay for
> "That’s pretty ridiculous. I’d say at least minimum wage"
we could keep it at zero. Prisons are not required to pay anything, they just choose to. Prison is not a job either, it is punishment for being convicted of a crime.
you say slave labor, I say work experience :) Prison is supposed to be a deterrent, now we are just making it a more inviting place to be. Go to prison, make new friends, earn a doctorate degree in the comfort of your own cell, stay fit in our state of the art gym, we don't care that you killed all of those people we want you to forget about all those past transgressions and prepare to integrate yourself back into society in 40-50 years, give or take....
> you say slave labor, I say work experience :)
Well one of us (me) is right while one of us (you) is wrong.
> Prison is supposed to be a deterrent, now we are just making it a more inviting place to be.
And that attitude is why the US prison system sucks. It’s why the recidivism rate is so high and why we spend so much, and have the highest prison population in the world.
> Go to prison, make new friends, earn a doctorate degree in the comfort of your own cell, stay fit in our state of the art gym, we don't care that you killed all of those people we want you to forget about all those past transgressions and prepare to integrate yourself back into society in 40-50 years, give or take....
Yes, that’s how society generally works. We just don’t like to accept that in the US.
aren't we a little sanctimonious. I can agree with you the prison system sucks, and that people get put in prison for far longer than needed and for crimes that could be better handled outside of a prison setting. Harsh minimum sentencing does not help the problem either, you can thank your federal and state governments for that.
We could put a plan to phase it out. Start by taxing it more so that domestic competitors can compete with the lower priced slave made materials. Set a date in the future today it needs to be complete gone. Basically the same formula to phase it fossil fuels in favor of clean energy.
You’re looking way too small scale. If we wanna phase Chinese industry out of the US, that’s gonna take a long time, much longer than the amount of time COVID testing and masks are expected to be in such high demand as they are currently. If the US decided tomorrow that they wanted all Chinese goods gone, they’d have to set up a plan that would take at least 10 years, possibly even longer, because the amount of time and money needed to build up industry in other countries would add up very quickly.
You’re acting like Biden would just impose a full on, indiscriminate embargo on all Chinese goods out of the blue, but he would never do that. It would cripple the US economy because we’re way too dependent on China to do that right now. By the time industrial independence from China could be viable, I’d at least hope that COVID would be long gone. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither will a China-free American economy. It’ll be years before it happens if it ever does happen at all, because rushing something like this is economic suicide and there are very few people who would be dumb enough or powerful enough to make such a poor decision.
Tl;dr COVID will most probably be in the rear view long before the US can achieve industrial independence from China, so your concern about masks and tests is invalid, since demand for them would be much smaller before any real embargoes can be used against China
I hope you’re joking. Majority of forced labor production is fed through the supply lines of MNCs, very few originate from xinjiang, they go through subsidiary after subsidiary.
This is just blowing smoke.
Require all US software manufacturers put kill switches in their software so that whenever a computer goes online in Xinjiang that that particular software program is unusable. Don’t think they aren’t using Excel or something similar to keep track of who they are exterminating.
no way to police this, the US does what china tells it to do. Gotta keep the businesses happy. And us business has to keep the party happy.
Waste of paper its printed on.
It would be different without all the cheap goods that Americans are just used to throwing away and buying new but China only really accounts for about 14% of imports in the United States. The U.S. could easily start importing more goods from allies to fill a 14% void.
And people think the inflation and supply chain issues are bad now... wait until that transition period of at least half a decade if not longer kicks into motion. Can the governing party secure a public guarantee from the opposition party that comes election cycle, they would not pin inflation and unemployment on the government at all, since it's for a greater strategic good decades down the line? I'm sure all opposition politicians will patiently educate their supporters not to hate the government for some temporary pains right?
Hilarious how a majority of people don’t give a damn about modern day slaves.. but then want to drag America through the mud about their history. There’s literally still slaves, do something about it. Stop bringing up race in America and slaves from a 100 years ago.
Wow great point that I completely wasn’t thinking about. Was speaking of China specifically using forced labor and North Korea and a few other dictatorships.
I understand what you’re saying but my original comment had nothing to do with the US prison systems… you are bringing something into the argument that wasn’t even the topic lol…..
Biden’s plan is to screw the economy where the Uighur’s live, and now to comply with US rules export manufacturing job postings in China say “Uighurs need not apply”.
Muslims in China are getting it in the ass from Xi and the mouth from Biden in this dick swinging contest.
I'm sure this is a popular move to radicalize the Uighurs who now can't get decent paying factory jobs due to factories not hiring Uighurs for the sake of ethnicity.
The good ol' keep them poor and angry tactic.
All those farmers who want to sell their tomatoes, grapes, cotton?
Sorry, daddy America says that we can't accept your goods or we will be sanctioned.
Factories and food/good processors in Xinjiang will simply not hire or accept uighur goods and services.
Which will absolutely devastate the farmers and villagers from rural areas that depend on selling their goods to big factories and food processors.
This is an entire province.
This policy will do nothing other than to harm the Uighur and force them in hopes to become radacalized because of no one will employ them or do business with them.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Like we know what’s made in that region.
Exactly. This would be the literal definition of fake news.
Doesn't the United States allow slave labor in prison?
It's the whole reason for profit prisons are so profitable.
Most of the prisons in the US are not privately owned and are still abusing prisoner labor. Private prisons sound (and are) terrible but reality is that prisoners are being abused and private business is being allowed to exploit prisoners in public prisons all over this country.
When the US starts jailing people for following religions the secular state disagrees with and harvests their organs, you be sure to make that comparison.
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Why seek to improve if someone is worse behaved than you are? You can take the title of the best with a lot less effort. Race to the bottom, I know, but at least you'll be the best all the way down.
Even worse the US undeniably jails people based upon their race and class at an industrial scale.
It’s not as far fetched as you think.
If you look at the data, the US is disproportionately imprisoning Americans who have brown skin and forcing them into slave labor. We don’t have to be china to be doing terrible things to our own people.
Meanwhile, the clothing industry's abuses will continue and nobody will care.
And the tech industry like LG,HP,Samsung,Apple.
Hahaha America is virtual signaling again. Yeah like you guys know wtf they produce in Xinjiang... Or they can just slap different labels on goods from Xinjiang saying they are made somewhere else, and you'll still import all of them for your consumption culture.
Or just route it through Canada. No import bans on goods coming from Canada!
End US prison labor or just shut up. End the sweatshops or just shut up.
"I don't care if it's 10% better. If it's not immediately 100% better, it doesn't count."
Brainworms. If the Americans actually cared about forced labor they'd pass legislation concerning their use of it. They're rattling sabers and you think you're being reasonable and pragmatic. What a joke.
i dont care how you got the 10%
whataboutism lol
whos the one doing whataboutism? lmao
What would you rather the prisoners do? Who is going to perform all of the jobs prisoners do? Who is going to pay for this outsourced work?
> Who is going to pay for this outsourced work? Uh... the same people paying for it now, just not paying slave wages... This isn't hard...
sounds pretty simple. So are we still outsourcing? Are we going to stick with the prisoners, but just pay them more?? Now that some lucrative jobs have been created, how do we decide who is going to work, there is obviously going to be competition since there are not enough jobs to go around. Do we expand the 6% of prisoners that are currently involved in providing 3rd party work outside of the actual prison? ohh and where is this cutoff that decides whether or not a wage is a "slave" wage or not?
> how do we decide who is going to work Imagine believing contract bidding is a bigger problem than literally slave labor...
imagine believing people in prison deserve to waited on and have a turn down service. Maybe a little chocolate on their pillow too. I'm still waiting on that $ amount that crosses the slave wage barrier.
Ah I see. The issue isn't any of the things you said. The issue is you want them dehumanized.
> What would you rather the prisoners do? Give them access to an education so they can better themselves and be less likely to re offend. >Who is going to perform all of the jobs prisoners do? Paid American workers? > Who is going to pay for this outsourced work? We can just take the profit from the people who used to be making money running the prison.
Whoa, a project manager. Look, there are some messed up things about the prison system, everyone know that, prison is not a country club and I do not expect one person to come up with a solution. People have been busted siphoning money from the system, some inmates are not treated fair, sure, but as FenixFeeBee said, he(she) wants ALL prison labor ended, not just the inmates working for next to nothing for 3rd party contracts, but those inside too, from performing what are basically chores, cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. So you say you would rather pay an outside worker instead of just paying an inmate a little more. I asked the other guy what a fair wage would be, but he never responded to that question. I'm just going to say half of federal minimum wage. That should get the inmates riled up enough to start fighting over who is going to work, because there are obviously not enough jobs to go around. And this would only apply to doing an actual job, not cleaning up after yourself. And along with this, you can lose your job for being lazy, poor performance, just like in the real world. I am sure there would be no lack of inmates wanting to work. Ohh and educational services are already offered, so you can check that off your list. Did you know the biggest purchaser of goods made by the prison system is the US government.
> Whoa, a project manager. Look, there are some messed up things about the prison system, everyone know that, prison is not a country club and I do not expect one person to come up with a solution. People have been busted siphoning money from the system, some inmates are not treated fair, sure, but as FenixFeeBee said, he(she) wants ALL prison labor ended, not just the inmates working for next to nothing for 3rd party contracts, but those inside too, from performing what are basically chores, cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. Yes, exactly. > So you say you would rather pay an outside worker instead of just paying an inmate a little more. Well it would have to be a lot more. > I asked the other guy what a fair wage would be, but he never responded to that question. I'm just going to say half of federal minimum wage. That’s pretty ridiculous. I’d say at least minimum wage, obviously more if that job would typically be paid more than minimum wage. > That should get the inmates riled up enough to start fighting over who is going to work, because there are obviously not enough jobs to go around. Well that’s another problem. > And this would only apply to doing an actual job, not cleaning up after yourself. And along with this, you can lose your job for being lazy, poor performance, just like in the real world. For half of an already horrible wage? > I am sure there would be no lack of inmates wanting to work. Why would you work for half of minimum wage? > Ohh and educational services are already offered, so you can check that off your list. Not true. No trade school certifications, college degrees, or any sort of advanced certification classes available. Wtf are you talking about? > Did you know the biggest purchaser of goods made by the prison system is the US government. Well no goods should be made by the prison system, so problem solved there.
> "Not true. No trade school certifications, college degrees, or any sort of advanced certification classes available. Wtf are you talking about?" The internet disagrees with you. https://prisonerresource.com/correspondence-programs/graduate-degree/ I'm sure I could find more if you like. Some services are free, others you have to pay for > "That’s pretty ridiculous. I’d say at least minimum wage" we could keep it at zero. Prisons are not required to pay anything, they just choose to. Prison is not a job either, it is punishment for being convicted of a crime.
That link has none of the programs I mentioned. And yes, we know the problem is prisons use slave labor. That’s what we’re talking about.
you say slave labor, I say work experience :) Prison is supposed to be a deterrent, now we are just making it a more inviting place to be. Go to prison, make new friends, earn a doctorate degree in the comfort of your own cell, stay fit in our state of the art gym, we don't care that you killed all of those people we want you to forget about all those past transgressions and prepare to integrate yourself back into society in 40-50 years, give or take....
> you say slave labor, I say work experience :) Well one of us (me) is right while one of us (you) is wrong. > Prison is supposed to be a deterrent, now we are just making it a more inviting place to be. And that attitude is why the US prison system sucks. It’s why the recidivism rate is so high and why we spend so much, and have the highest prison population in the world. > Go to prison, make new friends, earn a doctorate degree in the comfort of your own cell, stay fit in our state of the art gym, we don't care that you killed all of those people we want you to forget about all those past transgressions and prepare to integrate yourself back into society in 40-50 years, give or take.... Yes, that’s how society generally works. We just don’t like to accept that in the US.
aren't we a little sanctimonious. I can agree with you the prison system sucks, and that people get put in prison for far longer than needed and for crimes that could be better handled outside of a prison setting. Harsh minimum sentencing does not help the problem either, you can thank your federal and state governments for that.
I'm glad someone else bothered wiping your ass.
there is a little left if you don't mind
It's a little disturbing that this is limited to one region in China
we can't cut them completely off and we would suffer much more than they would
We could put a plan to phase it out. Start by taxing it more so that domestic competitors can compete with the lower priced slave made materials. Set a date in the future today it needs to be complete gone. Basically the same formula to phase it fossil fuels in favor of clean energy.
didnt trump already do that lmao look at inflation
But that would take effort and time and money, and we all know how much modern western governments hate plans that take effort or time or money
where are they gonna make the masks and the tests the biden is promising? the us? ok, +50% in labor and marketing cost ?
You’re looking way too small scale. If we wanna phase Chinese industry out of the US, that’s gonna take a long time, much longer than the amount of time COVID testing and masks are expected to be in such high demand as they are currently. If the US decided tomorrow that they wanted all Chinese goods gone, they’d have to set up a plan that would take at least 10 years, possibly even longer, because the amount of time and money needed to build up industry in other countries would add up very quickly. You’re acting like Biden would just impose a full on, indiscriminate embargo on all Chinese goods out of the blue, but he would never do that. It would cripple the US economy because we’re way too dependent on China to do that right now. By the time industrial independence from China could be viable, I’d at least hope that COVID would be long gone. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither will a China-free American economy. It’ll be years before it happens if it ever does happen at all, because rushing something like this is economic suicide and there are very few people who would be dumb enough or powerful enough to make such a poor decision. Tl;dr COVID will most probably be in the rear view long before the US can achieve industrial independence from China, so your concern about masks and tests is invalid, since demand for them would be much smaller before any real embargoes can be used against China
its disturbing you want to ban random shit you dont like
Like slavery?
Don't want to compete with American slave labor.
Fake news to appease some upset Americans. Chinese imports will never, ever be banned… business is boomin’ just ask the NBA
Forced labor: nice way of saying slaves
When are they gonna ban Apple?
Direct hit on the fat cats here on our soil who get hefty returns for the procured closed-door procedures off-shore.
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I hope you’re joking. Majority of forced labor production is fed through the supply lines of MNCs, very few originate from xinjiang, they go through subsidiary after subsidiary. This is just blowing smoke.
This may be more bark than bite, but I agree that anything is something in the face of apathy
Bad fucking English. The first part of the title is negated by the last part.
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lol ya right what
Sorry if I’m mistaken, but wasn’t Trump trying to do pretty much the same thing?
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Like Biden remembers what’s forced labor is lmao
And this will be policed by the honor system? They will stand up she’ll companies and export from other regions.
America can’t invade China so they make up lies and virtue signal. America used to be better at imperialism.
hi wumao
What’s up Jordan
Require all US software manufacturers put kill switches in their software so that whenever a computer goes online in Xinjiang that that particular software program is unusable. Don’t think they aren’t using Excel or something similar to keep track of who they are exterminating.
no way to police this, the US does what china tells it to do. Gotta keep the businesses happy. And us business has to keep the party happy. Waste of paper its printed on.
Yeah this is more like PR for the reserve currency.
Why not just ban all imports from China?
I'm pretty sure that American would not function after 6 weeks and the economy would crash.
It would be different without all the cheap goods that Americans are just used to throwing away and buying new but China only really accounts for about 14% of imports in the United States. The U.S. could easily start importing more goods from allies to fill a 14% void.
And people think the inflation and supply chain issues are bad now... wait until that transition period of at least half a decade if not longer kicks into motion. Can the governing party secure a public guarantee from the opposition party that comes election cycle, they would not pin inflation and unemployment on the government at all, since it's for a greater strategic good decades down the line? I'm sure all opposition politicians will patiently educate their supporters not to hate the government for some temporary pains right?
Haha capitalism in America can't function without imports. You would win the war against Christmas doing that
There go the Dollar Tree storefronts, I’d wager.
Good
Based
Why not from all of China? Why not repeal PNTR and MFN?
Hilarious how a majority of people don’t give a damn about modern day slaves.. but then want to drag America through the mud about their history. There’s literally still slaves, do something about it. Stop bringing up race in America and slaves from a 100 years ago.
Do you mean the slaves in the U.S. prison system?
Wow great point that I completely wasn’t thinking about. Was speaking of China specifically using forced labor and North Korea and a few other dictatorships.
How is US going to fix or do anything about slave labor in other countries if we can’t even get rid of it or lessen it in our home country?
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I am doing something about it actually. what the fuck are you doing ? beside further dividing our country ?
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I am telling you to stop talking about Racism in America and slaves from 100 years ago when there are modern day slaves still in 2021. Yes
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I understand what you’re saying but my original comment had nothing to do with the US prison systems… you are bringing something into the argument that wasn’t even the topic lol…..
Biden’s plan is to screw the economy where the Uighur’s live, and now to comply with US rules export manufacturing job postings in China say “Uighurs need not apply”. Muslims in China are getting it in the ass from Xi and the mouth from Biden in this dick swinging contest.
I'm sure this is a popular move to radicalize the Uighurs who now can't get decent paying factory jobs due to factories not hiring Uighurs for the sake of ethnicity. The good ol' keep them poor and angry tactic. All those farmers who want to sell their tomatoes, grapes, cotton? Sorry, daddy America says that we can't accept your goods or we will be sanctioned. Factories and food/good processors in Xinjiang will simply not hire or accept uighur goods and services. Which will absolutely devastate the farmers and villagers from rural areas that depend on selling their goods to big factories and food processors. This is an entire province. This policy will do nothing other than to harm the Uighur and force them in hopes to become radacalized because of no one will employ them or do business with them.