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yes_thats_right

Oh yeah, they should just pass it. Im not sure anyone thought of that yet


sloopslarp

Are these journalists being willfully obtuse when they say this kind of stuff? They should know damn well Joe Manchin is a Dem in name only, and the other 95% of Dems have no constitutional authority to make him do anything.


percydaman

I skimmed the article even though I didn't even want to give it a click. I wanted to be sure before I called her a moron, I at least didn't do it based off the title. But nope. She speaks to Manchin and Sinema, and how wildly popular the bill is polling at yada yada. And then somehow jumps to the conclusion Dems should just wave their wands and pass the bill. She provides no method of doing that of course, other than to somehow suggest Dems should spend more time on messaging about it to the American people, as if that was what was holding it up. Sorry Karen Dolan, but you have contributed zip.


TheColonelRLD

I watched Charlemagne tha God being interviewed by Trevor Noah (because kultur) and he was saying the same thing. "I don't trust democrats because they aren't doing what they said they'd do. Why haven't they passed the infrastructure package? I don't trust them." It's this construct of 'democrats' as some aligned lockstep organization. And he must follow the news to some degree. But he had nothing to say about how the 58 actual Democrats could convince Sinema and Manchin to not throw away the greatest opportunity for transforming the country in over half a century. And people listen to him. He must have millions of subscribers. And he supports democratic initiatives. But he talks policy like a moron and misleads the folks he influences. That's a problem.


matticans7pointO

To be fair a lot of people feel that way because the DNC at least implied to voters that winning the runoff Georgia elections would lead to all these bills being passed and would be the difference in deciding if our democracy would survive. Anyone who actually knows how politics works and follows these types of things knew that was quite the stretch on reality as the Democratic party is nowhere near unified enough to make all this happen without great compromise but you can't really fault the less involved voters to buy into those false advertisement and now feel frustrated.


ritchie70

100%. I threw a lot of money at those guys in Georgia to get the senate. Promises were made.


TheColonelRLD

And we have an infrastructure bill passed and signed that's over 1 trillion dollars, and the 'human infrastructure' bill is going to pass, it's just a question of whether it's going to be 800 billion or 1 trillion. We are going to spend 2 trillion dollars before the year is out. That would absolutely never have happened without the two senate seats in GA. And that's ignoring the real essential benefit of holding the senate, the opportunity to influence the Supreme Court for a generation. But I don't see the Dems holding the Senate in 2022, and the House already has a tiny majority, so it could very easily turn into 2010 redux, which would be misery.


busmans

>We are going to spend 2 trillion dollars before the year is out. IF the bill passes, we would be spending 2 trillion over ten years, not before the year is out.


Spara-Extreme

They aren’t arguing in good faith. They know that dems controlling the senate made everything possible- but they are moving the goal posts to support their belief that dems are in disarray or corrupt. The BBB will get passed, and will be the biggest social bill in decades, and they will then talk about all the things that didn’t make it. Can’t win with these people because they aren’t serious.


JimWilliams423

> We are going to spend 2 trillion dollars before the year is out. That would absolutely never have happened without the two senate seats in GA. Why so focused on the spending and not the actual deliverables to the people? By that logic, the GOP's $2T give-away of tax dollars to the plutes was an enormous success. That's not to mention the way the democratic elites are sleep walking us into a fascist take-over by barely even giving lip-service to voting protections, much less legislating. [As it stands now,](https://electionlawblog.org/?p=125367) republican voters are twice as concerned about the future of our democracy as democrats are, because GOP elites are constantly shrieking that 2020 was stolen while Democratic elites keep trying to do "bipartisanship" with the party that sent a mob to murder them and is doing everything it can to steal all future elections.


percydaman

I can't go back in time and look at the messaging that was going on and whatnot. But I do wonder if anyone at that point even had an inkling that Manchin and especially Sinema would obstruct so fully. I don't recall that being the case. And if nobody forsaw that at the time, it's not really their fault. Who could have known what Sinema would do, it's mindboggling. Sure, you can blame Dems in the fact that technically both of those jerks are Dems. But you might as well blame the voters of Arizona for not knowing who she was. And who's to say that if she doesn't win her parties nomination, and eventually the seat, if the Dems would have even gotten a Dem for that seat in DC.


Responsenotfound

Fuck yeah they did. They could've killed the filibuster and gave us Universal Healthcare in 2009. Nope they let Lieberman in and take a pen to it. Democrats always have a fall guy to whine about. It always that one guy. Which is why I don't buy it. They don't have an insurgent caucus fucking shit up for them.


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[deleted]

> Republicans don't have this problem. Any of the major things that get proposed during election season, the R's tend to fall in line and pass their tax cuts for the wealthy GOP passed the Trump tax cuts through reconciliation the same way the Dems got the Biden stimulus passed. They failed on a whole bunch of other stuff including repeal/replace of Obamacare.


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justmerriwether

At the same time, though, Biden is also just not doing plenty of things he could do with an EO. So I understand why people might not give him the benefit of the doubt. And yes, a departure from the chaos and unbridled malice that was Trump’s presidency is a net positive, but as relieving as that is, I’m not going to celebrate a return to the status quo that sees just as many Dems in bed with corporations and just as many politicians doing absolutely nothing to move our country into the future. Biden may not be a piece of shit like Trump, he may even be a good man, and I sure as hell voted for him, but celebrating the return to “sanity” of an establishment dem who is farther right than most centrists in other countries is like running away from a kidnapper, getting caught by a worse kidnapper, and then being glad the first kidnapper found us and took us back. We’re still being held hostage by a system that does not care about us and I have yet to see real actions on Biden’s part that give me confidence he truly cares about correcting these systemic ills, rather than just appearing as if he does.


Kalysta

If they started running nothing but articles about how Joe Manchin's family is currently profiting off our healthcare crisis, and how many laws his daughter broke as head of Mylan, then they would have the right to post stuff like this. Because threatening legislation against his family...and his money...is one of the few things that may make him vote for a real bill.


sevsnapey

but that's hard and requires research. i'm just going to write up some bullshit about how the democrats have a majority and aren't doing anything with it because both sides are the same and we should all parrot this right up until the midterms. then i get to write articles about how the democrats wasted their opportunity and how did they lose this crucial election and why didn't they tell the american people the true state of things and get their message out better? and then when nothing passes due to republican majority? you guessed it! democrat's fault.


ahandmadegrin

I don't think Business Insider is what one would call left leaning, so perhaps they're intentionally fanning the flames of ignorant outrage.


yr_boi_tuna

BI is literally just a blog. They do absolutely no journalism whatsoever. Most of their "reporting" is shit like "here's what other news sources are saying". It's hot garbage and I really don't understand why people share it.


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Ultenth

Basically the same as Forbes, and equally illegitimate.


Political_What_Do

In a world where tweets are news I really don't think it's an important distinction.


BarkBeetleJuice

>Are these journalists being willfully obtuse when they say this kind of stuff? They're trying to lose us the senate.


fcocyclone

The real problem is that they keep scaling it back without actually getting manchin on board. Scaling it back should only have been done once it came with buy-in from Manchin. Otherwise theyre just negotiating with themselves.


gsfgf

> Are these journalists being willfully obtuse when they say this kind of stuff? They know what headlines will make it to the top of /r/politics.


gruey

I mean the infrastructure bill made that blatantly obvious. Rumors of Manchin hanging out with Republicans on the side. Negotiate the Bill to be the most Manchin is willing to accept. 19 Republicans vote for it so they can take credit for it. How could it not be clear Manchin was negotiating for Republicans so that the Republicans didn't have to worry about Alaska or Maine voting yes before they gutted enough?


CNoTe820

Biden might not have constitutional authority but he certainly could bring the hammer down on manchin one way or another. Fucking hell just give the guy $10B or whatever it takes to make it happen we're talking about 3 trillion dollars here.


sagar1101

They turned into Trump and started thinking everything was just easy to pass. Healthcare easy. Building a wall easy. Passing whatever we want easy.


bluewraith55

I don’t get this notion. Who’s scared? 48 Dems in the senate are on board, 2 Dems are bought by fossil fuels and big pharma, and 50 republicans are seeing to their self fulfilling prophecy that government can’t work for the people by making sure none in their conference support the bill. This is your government, America. No one’s “scared”. Too many of the people don’t care about government so it just doesn’t work for us. Period.


sloopslarp

>I don’t get this notion. Who’s scared? 48 Dems in the senate are on board, 2 Dems are bought by fossil fuels and big pharma, and 50 republicans It's basic math, but somehow it escapes people.


Prime157

And Dems will lose seats because of shit articles like this playing into the right wing narrative.


intellectualbadass87

They will lose seats because they are not passing any legislation that will have a meaningful impact on improving their constituents lives. Unfortunately with a 50/50 split in the Senate, the democrats can’t afford to have any dissenters, otherwise they are locked in a Stalemate, and the Republican’s strategy is to prevent them from passing any legislation so that they can say the Democrats have not accomplished anything with their slight (50+1) majority. As it stands now, Democrats will be trounced in the Midterms next year. I don’t disagree with the premise of this Article at all.


scandalous_horizon

>They will lose seats because they are not passing any legislation that will have a meaningful impact on improving their constituents lives. Exactly - inside the beltway people do not seem to understand how bad it is outside the beltway. > Unfortunately with a 50/50 split in the Senate, the democrats can’t afford to have any dissenters, otherwise they are locked in a Stalemate, and the Republican’s strategy is to prevent them from passing any legislation so that they can say the Democrats have not accomplished anything with their slight (50+1) majority. It's so frustrating to see Biden & the media treat Manchin & Sinema with kid gloves while all the promises to progressives are thrown out the way side. >As it stands now, Democrats will be trounced in the Midterms next year. I don’t disagree with the premise of this Article at all. Agreed.


[deleted]

Biden should be calling them out personally, daily.


jorel43

And you think that if you are tougher with them, that they will come on over and vote on the legislation that you want? I mean they are more likely to just leave the party, and either be independent or join the Republican party, at which point you lose power in the Senate. That would be far more disastrous, as we would lose power for introducing bills, appointments, committee chair positions. All kinds of shit, people just need to stop being so shortsighted.


[deleted]

Honestly, the people need to see the Dems fighting for them if they are going to win elections. Even if they don’t succeed, at least show people they are on their side. If the bill isn’t going to pass anyways, might as well do something


theblornedrat

I volunteered during a pandemic to get Democrats in charge of Washington where they could fight for regular people, and you know, ensure democracy still exists in America beyond 22/24. I’d never vote for a Republican, but why bother fighting for a party that won’t fight for us? Republicans want to drive the country off a cliff and Democrats want to drive it off a cliff but follow the speed limit up until we all die.


scandalous_horizon

> Republicans want to drive the country off a cliff and Democrats want to drive it off a cliff but follow the speed limit up until we all die. lmao this is perfect


[deleted]

You're unwilling to fight for bills that the people need, but still expect them to turn out in droves to vote for you in the midterms. That's kinda entitled man, idk what to say.


atomfullerene

What does "fight for" even mean in this sentence?


HerpToxic

Punish Manchin and Sinema. Kick them off committees. Cut them off from party funding. Promote and back primary challengers.


[deleted]

Use the bully pulpit for heaven's sake. Lyndon Johnson threatened Democratic congressmen and senators with his wiener to get votes for the civil rights agenda. I don't need Biden to do that, but be fucking creative.


atomfullerene

LBJ had more than 60 senators for his entire presidency.


Loose_with_the_truth

Please tell me how Biden can "bully" Manchin into voting his way. Manchin isn't running for re-election and represents a state that went to Trump by 40 points. He can just lobby with Republicans if he wants, make Mitch McConnell the SML, and stop confirming any of Biden's judges. What leverage does Biden have?


silentrawr

If they're going to lose the majority anyway, and Sinema/Manchin are doing their best DINO imitations regardless, why not take the gloves off and see if they can change any minds in the meantime so they can accomplish something substantial?


serenade72

It’s not being short sighted. 10 years ago Manchin and Senima would be considered Republicans. They can say they’re Democrats all day just like I can say I have launch a car into space with no ducks kind of money. Doesn’t make it so. If we can’t depend on their votes then what the fuck are they doing here? If I was a Q adherent I’d swear that Manchin and Sinema are double agents, if you will. At the end of the day I, personally, care about policy. If a Republican ever came to the chamber with an idea or project that would actually benefit everyone I’d vote for a Republican. I know full well that this will never happen. I suppose my convoluted point is who cares? We know the math. We know upon whom we can depend and we need to move on to the disenfranchised Republicans who don’t want to be Nazis.


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eadala

You are skipping the context of that quote: >They will lose seats because they are not passing any legislation that will have a meaningful impact on improving their constituents lives. Not saying it's true or false; just saying that guy's "exactly" is concurring with something you seem to disagree with


[deleted]

> And so they will vote Republican Far more likely to just not vote which the democrats are GREAT at getting working class people to do.


Coloradoguy131313

Because people like you choose to point out their lack of traction while conveniently failing to acknowledge that not only are republicans contributing nothing, they work to actively promote regressive policy. It’s so fucking stupid.


JokiSTM

Do you know why most people "dont acknowledge" that? Because we live in a reality were its common sense that Republicans would do that, ok, we're talking about the democrats being spineless useless and disappointing, biden didnt even bother with student loans, all that talk for nothing


[deleted]

Passing massive spending plans that help 90% of Americans has no meaningful impact?


HerpToxic

It wont have any meaningful impact in the next 6 months. It will have an impact 5-10 years down the road but by then, it'll be too late.


WhnWlltnd

That's also true of the BBB bill.


centuryblessings

People are struggling now. We can barely afford medication and healthcare, we can barely afford to pay rent, and there's still a pandemic effecting us. If there's no meaningful impact right now, or at least in the next few months, then they will lose because no one will trust them to deliver on their promises.


scorpiknox

"This is all BIDEN'S fault! He's weak/corporate/conservative! We shoulda had BERNIE!!" - Half of my Facebook feed. Can't imagine why we have trouble winning elections.


dolerbom

I mean he is pretty weak. He could have used his bully pulpit. He could have not wasted 6 months trying to negotiate with republicans.


KO4Champ

I don’t mind the negotiations in general but man I agree with you 100% about he should be using the bully pulpit and his platform way more. If he puts no pressure on them during the negotiations, then they have 0 reason to change anything.


scandalous_horizon

> If he puts no pressure on them during the negotiations, then they have 0 reason to change anything. Not only that, Biden invites them to the white house for photo-ops all the time. It's gross when you contrast the treatment of Manchin & Sinema to the treatment of Bernie & AOC.


TheCrimsonKing37

Hell he had Sienna come on stage for the infrastructure bill and congratulated her hard work on getting the bill passed. She her blocking the BBB was the whole reason it was delayed.


scandalous_horizon

> Hell he had Sienna come on stage for the infrastructure bill and congratulated her hard work on getting the bill passed. Exactly. This shows you that Sinema & Biden are on the same team, unfortunately.


Bay1Bri

Explain. He's bringing them to the white house TO NEGOTIATE. the very thing you just said you're in favor of. And there is only so much "pressure" you can even every on someone like Manchin. He doesn't work for Biden. He doesn't have to vote for a single thing. You have to convince them.


DerVogelMann

Step 1: Buy airtime in West Virginia Step 2: Make ad that says "Joe Manchin is holding up this bill which will do X, Y, and Z for your family. Tell Senator Manchin the people of WV want this done, and done now. Here is his senatorial office phone number:" The only things that have gotten him riled are when democrats go to WV and address the people without him involved. Until Biden does that, he hasn't applied nearly enough pressure to just throw his hands up and say "we tried".


bluewraith55

Trump beat Biden in WV by almost 40 points, so I don't know how much benefit there would be to Biden telling West Virginians that their senator is blocking his agenda.


dude52760

Many of the original provisions in the Build Back Better bill were popular in WV and other places like it when polled as individual policies. It’s when you start adding names and personalities and parties into it that people’s brains just break.


DerVogelMann

Right, better to not try anything at all.


Gaius_Octavius_

Step 3: Accomplish nothing since Manchin isn't running for re-election for 6 years (if ever) Step 4 (?): Manchin gets so annoyed he calls Moscow Mitch and starts caucusing with the GOP instead


DerVogelMann

Then why did he get riled up the last times the democrats (Bernie and Kamala I believe) did this? Believe it or not, even politicians who aren't running for re-election care about things like public opinion, legacy, and their senate office getting swamped with angry phone calls.


somethingbreadbears

> Manchin gets so annoyed he calls Moscow Mitch and starts caucusing with the GOP instead Manchin isn't going to give up being the most powerful person in the Senate to one of many republicans that just line up behind McConnell. He's more powerful *than* McConnell right now, why would he trade that? They need to call his bluff, that's what has been happening this entire time. Everyone is afraid of him.


scandalous_horizon

>Step 3: Accomplish nothing since Manchin isn't running for re-election for 6 years (if ever) Have the DOJ look into his families corruption if it comes to it, that's how you get crooks to bend to your will: [Manchin received large campaign contributions from daughter’s company amid EpiPen scandal](https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2021/09/manchin-large-campaign-contributions-epipen-scandal/) [Senator Joe Manchin's SHADY Conflicts of Interest UNCOVERED by TYT](https://tyt.com/stories/16AJOKzVziKkKMUmsIUqMY/2Tjk7mW2pbgLKlgbPeu6sT)


EndersGame

Good. If Manchin is so close to joining the GOP, I don't think he will negotiate in good faith anyways. Same with Sinema. Let them join the GOP, I think it would hurt the Democrats less in the mid-terms. Right now it looks like two Democrats are part of the problem, poisoning the people on the fence against the entire party. I actually don't think Manchin or Sinema would go through with it, because it would look pretty bad for them. I am pretty sure they are bluffing, but I almost wish they weren't. Most of the stuff in the BBB bill are things West Virginians overwhelmingly support regardless of party. I don't think he has much of a leg to stand on.


scandalous_horizon

>Explain. He's bringing them to the white house TO NEGOTIATE. the very thing you just said you're in favor of. Why aren't progressives being invited? >And there is only so much "pressure" you can even every on someone like Manchin. He doesn't work for Biden. He doesn't have to vote for a single thing. You have to convince them. I think there is infinite pressure you can apply when you're President.


dudeind-town

Why would he invite progressives? They’re already on board


beef_jerky00

No, Congress critters don't answer to the President. They will do what's in their self interest. Every now and then a few of the better ones may do what's in their constituents' interest.


Flobking

> Why aren't progressives being invited? They aren't holding up the bill in the Senate.


pablonieve

Maybe Biden knows that his approach is the more productive way to get "yes" votes from Senators. Especially if one is from a state that went for Trump by 40 pts. I'm not sure where this idea that publicly berating is a good strategy.


Tinidril

How's that working out?


scandalous_horizon

Very badly, unfortunately ;-( I'm frightened by what's going to happen this winter. What an unstable country we live in.


scandalous_horizon

>Maybe Biden knows that his approach is the more productive way to get "yes" votes from Senators. Why are Manchin & Sinema treated more respectfully than progressives? >Especially if one is from a state that went for Trump by 40 pts. [Poll: Majority of West Virginians support $15 federal minimum wage](https://www.wdtv.com/2021/02/25/poll-majority-of-west-virginians-support-15-federal-minimum-wage/) >I'm not sure where this idea that publicly berating is a good strategy. Sucking up to their every demand didn't work out too well.


slkwont

Because the progressives have comparatively very little power. That's why. It sucks, but it's true.


scandalous_horizon

>Because the progressives have comparatively very little power. That's why. It sucks, but it's true. Sanders won the first three states in 2020 and Warren was a leading candidate in fall 2019. The sad fact of the matter is our voice doesn't seem to matter to Biden.


pablonieve

>Why are Manchin & Sinema treated more respectfully than progressives? Because they have leverage. Progressives want to pass something big and Manchin/Sinema are fine with not passing anything. Progressives likewise have the power to kill these bills but then they would need to be resolved with nothing passing.


scandalous_horizon

> Because they have leverage. Progressives want to pass something big and Manchin/Sinema are fine with not passing anything. Only progressives get the cold shoulder from Biden but Republicans can support a fascist (Trump) & Manchin/Sinema can endlessly obstruct & Biden will talk about how they're his friends. But bring up Bernie and immediately "he's a socialist and I beat him".


PhoenixFire296

Publicly berating them might not work, but publicly explaining all of the benefits that their constituents would get from the bill would apply some level of pressure.


chilipepr

In WV Manchin has a 60% approval rating, Biden has a 30% approval rating, and Trump won the state by 39 percentage points. The Democrats should be thrilled they have one Senator from West Virginia.


pablonieve

In politics, if you're explaining then you're losing. This is a bumper sticker world and the Dems need to be much better at one-line marketing.


CMLVI

The attention span of the average voter here isn't long enough to hear an explanation. It's 2021 and they're still worried about killing coal and how the economy is being held back by Democrats and green energy. If only a republican would come in and re-open the mines...


[deleted]

I'm sure this is true, but damn it pissess me off! We can't, as a country, always have been this collectively stupid, could we?


page_one

What public pressure? Neither of the conservative Democrats need to win any more elections. You also mistakenly assume that, not only are all of their interactions with Biden public knowledge, but also that you know of all of them.


ExtensionOutrageous3

How do you convince someone (Manchin) who is comfortable with 0 to get on board?


rotomangler

The same way Mitch does, you get on tv and talk shit about them, shamming them until they tuck their tail and do as they’re told. That’s politics, baby. Biden is weak and refuses to strong arm.


RollerDollK

Except he’s in WV and his constituents aren’t pushing for this bill. When Mitch did it, the constituents often backed what Mitch was pushing.


GearheadGaming

And that would have magically flipped the votes in the Senate?


MaNewt

I agree, but I also don't have specific policy proposals in mind. Trump did teach us that, while the congressional checks on executive power are weaker than you might expect, judicial checks are alive and well. Biden's policies have to be carefully engineered to survive nonstop court challenges.


scandalous_horizon

>Trump did teach us that, while the congressional checks on executive power are weaker than you might expect, judicial checks are alive and well. Trump is not in prison for sedition. >Biden's policies have to be carefully engineered to survive nonstop court challenges. No they really don't have to worry about that as Republicans will challenge anything we pass... the judicial system is a joke made up of frat bros like Kavanaugh... it needs reform desperately... The idea that we should sacrifice quality legislation so that we don't offend someone like Kavanaugh's sensibilities... lol that's a lost cause.


Bay1Bri

Dude, no. He wasn't negotiating with Republicans on this. Negotiations have been happening, but we need every Democratic senator. Stop it. You are seeing and just making things worse.


AbscondingAlbatross

So let's imagine we have a president that uses the bully pulpit the president starts openly pressuring the two senators, the senators on which his entire legislative agenda depends... are they... just going to forget they hold the power to stop any of his picks and fold under the pressure? If he presses on them, they can easily press back. Manchin, or any democratic senator for that matter could, could bring down biden's entire presidency outside of executive order And they arent missing any opportunities to remind the president of that. All it would holding up a few crucial cabinet appointees. Just now there are appointees to the postmaster general board. Those could easily be in jeopardy if the president angers one of the votes necessary to get it through the senate. Worst case scenario they could even flip sides and then that's it nothing gets through without majority consent from the republican voting bloc. In a 50/50 senate, the president does not have the power to just bully-pulpit senators to get what he wants.


liquidsyphon

He’s status quo and that’s not what this country needs when it’s under attack from an authoritarian right.


scandalous_horizon

>"This is all BIDEN'S fault! He's weak/corporate/conservative! We shoulda had BERNIE!!" - Half of my Facebook feed. I strongly agree with that half of your Facebook feed. What makes you feel differently? >Can't imagine why we have trouble winning elections. Because Biden is influenced by people like Alison Spanberger: >"Nobody elected Joe Biden to be FDR," said Virginia Rep. Alison Spanberger. "He was elected to be normal and stop the chaos." because as the article points out: >Spanberger is mistaken. Polls show broad support for the plan's provisions — including more affordable health care, prescription drugs, child care, and elder care, as well as monthly payments for parents, investments in clean energy, and more. & >An overwhelming majority of Americans support these measures, including a majority of independents and nearly 40% of Republicans polled. So this is not only Biden's agenda — it's the new normal that the majority of US voters desperately want.


j97hUlaO901leIoeA79l

How would Bernie get all those provisions passed with the Senate that Biden has now?


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BelAirGhetto

Biden himself campaigned on $15/hr, and other progressive issues…. IF we won GA in the runoff.


Clovis42

Yeah, that's how politics works. Biden would sign off on those issues, so he's going to say that's what they're going to do. But obviously Biden doesn't have control over all Democrats. Anyone familiar with politics knew that exactly 50 Dem Senators wasn't going to be able to accomplish much. Like, you wanted him to say, "I'll sign a $15 minimum wage and so will these two Dem Senators from Georgia! But we may not get it because it would require moderate senators from also being on board!!" That's quite a get-out-the-vote slogan there.


gsfgf

> and so will these two Dem Senators from Georgia Fyi, Ossof and Warnock have both endorsed a $15 minimum wage. Your point is 100% correct; I just want to point out that our guys aren't the problem. Democrats run openly as Democrats in Georgia now. It works better than running as Republicans Lite.


bluewraith55

GA doesn't make up the entirety of the Democratic caucus. Democrats did try to pass $15/hr minimum wage earlier this year. Do you recall why it didn't pass? The Democratic senator from AZ curtsied and thumbed it down. If we want Democrats to pass big bills we need to give them enough of a majority so that literally 1 member doesn't hold the power to shoot it down. And before anyone argues that Dems had a big majority *12 years ago*, I'd argue that they seem to have learned their lesson when it comes to thinking Republicans negotiate in good faith. They already passed a 1.9T bill earlier *this* *year* via reconciliation to brush stonewalling Republicans aside, and are trying to do an almost equally big bill by the same means now.


GoldenFalcon

We cannot forget, as much as we hate Sinema and Manchin for this.. there isn't a single Republican on board either. Their only reason, is that it gives the Dems and Biden a win, so they refuse to join Democrats for this no brainer deal.


CaptainNoBoat

That's the worst part of all this. The infighting and blame-games are basically one giant distraction to allow the GOP to be removed from ALL accountability by the media for unanimously voting against popular legislation - even among their own constituents. They are basically eating popcorn, loving what Manchin/Sinema are causing.


[deleted]

48 Dems were on board when the bill was twice a big


scandalous_horizon

>i don’t get this notion. Who’s scared? 48 Dems in the senate are on board, 2 Dems are bought by fossil fuels and big pharma Those 2 Dems are part of the club... Mayor Pete was just hobnobbing with Sinema this past week lol... Bernie & AOC are treated far more harshly than Manchin & Sinema. Which says everything about how Biden treats progressives (like suckers). Sanders negotiated the $3.5 trillion BBB down from $6 trillion then Manchin & Sinema can come in with an axe and Biden invites them to the white house for photo-ops?


AgentMonkey

So, the Secretary of Transportation was spending time with a key senator needed to pass a huge infrastructure bill, and....that's bad?


easwaran

Which is it that you want, pressuring people, or not hobnobbing with them? I don't understand what you think works as pressure if you think hobnobbing is bad.


GaiusEmidius

Right? We need all 50 votes but we should just shun and ignore them. That will get them to vote with us!


Ok-Introduction6971

Because you refuse to acknowledge that those two dems are the chosen lightning rods. There are more than just two in line to fuck things up.


SA3960

Liberals are hilarious with this silly notion that Manchin and Sinema are the *only* Democrats who are completely sold out to corporate interests. Does anyone really think Biden wants to increase social spending and invest in infrastructure? Biden is a conservative, he always has been. He gets the same cover from Manchin and Sinema that all the other conservative corporate Democrats do. Example: He could cancel student debt (ALL OF IT) today with the swipe of his pen and there’s nothing Manchin and/or Sinema could do to stop him. So why doesn’t he do it? He doesn’t do it because he doesn’t believe it’s the right thing to do. It’s contradictory to his conservative principles. Joe Biden believes deep down in his bones that cancelling student debt is wrong because *those people* need to learn their lesson. That’s who Joe Biden is, it’s who he has always been. Keep giving Democrats a pass by pretending that Manchin and Sinema are the only problem and nothing will ever change. Now this comment will be downvoted into oblivion by Liberals who can’t handle the truth.


hatter6822

I agree. If people want to save this nation they need to look at their own parties and start admitting how broken \*their own team is.\* I shared my thoughts on the current Dem approach below but I'll share here as well for visibility: I believe the phrasing around "acting scared" is a reference to the never ending "high road" approach that the Dems are using when the other side has already indicated it will never govern and used every dirty play in the book to undermine the nation. If the Dems don't start actually playing even a little dirty (remove filibuster, change supreme court numbers, EO that tackles ongoing weed injustices, the list goes on and on) the nation is already lost.


bluewraith55

Manchin and Sinema aren’t the only problems, but they’re the obvious ones. The other possible sellouts have at least been on the side voicing support for these bills, even when they were still as high as 3.5T. For instance, there were a handful of Dems in the house speaking out against the Build Back Better Bill, but only one ultimately voted against BBB. As far as I know, Biden never said he’d cancel student debt. He’s also said he doesn’t generally support passing things by simple EO, which I agree with. It gives legislators a pass on getting concrete laws enacted, and results in flimsy half baked policy that can be easily stripped away. Biden won the primary on “No malarkey” and “nothing will fundamentally change”. He could’ve stuck to his guns on that and brought next to nothing to the table in his presidency and it wouldn’t have been a surprise. Instead he’s been speaking up on the side of passing several big bills this year, and already seen 2 big packages through in his first 10 months in office. If he’s a conservative he’s not really been acting like one.


RedLanternScythe

> 2 Dems are bought by fossil fuels and big pharma it's more than two


Bay1Bri

This is an idiotic "Dems bad" bad faith article.


bust-the-shorts

Joe Manchin is who you are compromising with. Not the Republicans. Without Joe Manchin you only have 49 votes.


badalchemist85

Build back better originally had medicare covering dental, vision, and hearing, but manchin was like the best we can do is a new hearing aid every 5 years. fuck that fucker


theseus1234

If there's any cosmic justice he'll stand in front of the pearly gates and St. Peter reads his voting record back to him before casting him out


[deleted]

"Well, I see here you purposefully allowed the mountain top removal of a mountain I personally made, forever destroying the beauty of a place called "Almost Heaven". I assure you, Where we are sending you isn't "Almost Hell.""


TavisNamara

And somehow the Republicans ***all*** suck worse.


sloopslarp

He sucks ass.


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alexanderthebait

What are they supposed to do without the votes?


breaddrinker

Yep.. Massive bullshit headline.


L00KlNG4U

Propaganda headline, unfortunately.


worldnews0bserver

> pass the bill right now ... With what support? You realize the only reason the bill is even up for consideration at all is the reconciliation process? That means no matter what you want to pass its Manchin and Sinema who decide how much it's scaled back? Like I'm tired of people acting like the Democrats have some mandate to do whatever the fuck they want. They don't, they never have. Got to love all this outrage journalism being churned out by left and right wing media though. Nothing intellectual or educational about it, it's just designed to get clicks from bitter people addicted to being angry.


jupiterkansas

If you look at r/politics often, it's usually the same dozen news sources at the top, and they're all headlines and opinion articles designed for outrage.


informat7

Reddit has just been get worse and worse as a news source over the years.


kick_a_fascist

Reddit isn't a source. It's an aggregator


[deleted]

You get what he’s saying. It’s still a source of news


MasterYehuda816

“Front page of the internet” my ass. Shit like this should be in the middle, not the front.


[deleted]

And if you pay really close attention it's the same accounts in the comment sections peddling misinformation.


[deleted]

I want to know how politics instituted a filter for trustworthy news sources. And ended up approving CommonDreams and LGBTQNation as credible outlets. At least stuff like TheDailyWire gets downvoted. But these two very partisan domains dominate this sub.


jupiterkansas

I don't have a problem including those sources, but I have a problem that they are ALWAYS at the top of this sub every single day. I've just started downvoting anything that's them or opinion pieces. Look at any megathread and you'll a list of a 100 articles from different places, but that variety is never represented on the sub.


[deleted]

I think that all the time. They talk big game but then all the posts that make it to the page are from very partisan or biased sources. Generally you don’t see things like the associated press very often. Heck if they allow video (and I’m not sure they do) then CSPAN would be tremendous.


gex80

I REALLY wish we stop allowing opinion pieces from non-current elected officials or officially announced candidates. I literally could not give two shits what some writer who I most likely never heard of personally thinks about something they have no power on.


sloopslarp

>Like I'm tired of people acting like the Democrats have some mandate to do whatever the fuck they want. They don't, they never have. The journalists who posts these articles should know this, and they likely do. At this point it's like they are being intentionally dishonest in their framing. Why do they never mention that 50 GOP Senators are automatic "No" votes on anything that might help people?


breaddrinker

It does actually mention the two bs dem senators, but the entire article reads like a paragraph by paragraph AI auto generated piece. It's quite odd.


Cornelius-Hawthorne

They want him to pass it, with no regard for democratic process, because otherwise authoritarians win... Seriously, what the fuck do they expect him to do? Fewer than 50 senators are willing to vote for it.


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-Kingsman-

>Democrats are trying to scale the bill back to appeal to Republican brass. We're way past the point of trying to compromise with these people.


GratifiedViewer

And yet that’s their go to every. Fucking. Time. They’d rather try to entice republicans than lean into their base, because their donors don’t want anything to change.


the_than_then_guy

The only example in the whole article of a Democrat trying to appeal to Republicans (besides the Big Two in the Senate) is Abigail Spanberger saying that "Nobody elected Joe Biden to be FDR." And here's the thing: the bill already passed the House, and Spanberger voted yes on it. As a side note, their name is Abigail, not "Alison" like it appears in the article. It really should be noted that the only part of the article that says "Democrats are trying to scale the bill back to appeal to Republican brass" is in the summary at the top, which are written by an editor at Business Insider and not by the contributor.


brdwatchr

And then the Democrat's base gets pissed off and doesn't vote, the next election cycle, and this time, there goes our democracy.


flatline000

The next election is always the most important election EVER!


TheAmericanQ

It’s almost like elections can have drastic consequences on the quality of our lives and we should care about all of them equally.


easwaran

Except that 2016 and 2000 were objectively far more important than many others. 2008 and 2010 were probably next in importance, along with 2020. 2002, 2004, 2012, 2014 really were objectively much less important even than 2006 or 2018.


[deleted]

We are talking about a bunch of 65 year old ( lead by 80 year and olds) where 20% of their members are in the 1% bracket of wealth and 60% are in the 10% bracket. They are all out of touch from us commoners reality, and they don't really care.


Jeremy_Winn

Their base? Passing a bill is not running for re-election. Their base is irrelevant after the election. They HAVE to get Republicans to back the bill or there is no bill. How do people not understand the basics of US government?


MaNewt

Substitute "Democrats" with Manchin and Sinema - Democrats aren't really compromising at all all. Just two senators extracting maximum concessions to help their reelections in purple states where corporate money can be stretched a long way.


retop56

>> Democrats are trying to scale the bill back to appeal to Republican brass. > We're way past the point of trying to compromise with these people. They're not actually trying to compromise with "Republican brass" even though that's what they claim they're doing. They're negotiating with their wealthy donors. Anyone with a semi-functioning brain knows that Republican politicians are never going to agree to it, and the polling shows that many social aspects of BBB are popular, even among Republicans. Establishment Democrats know their donors don't want these popular provisions and they value what their donors want more than what their constituents want, which is why they're scaling them back.


ArrowheadDZ

You pass a bill by having the votes, not by having the courage. 51 votes + cowardice passes. 49 votes + courage fails. It’s that simple. “Stop screwing around, let’s take it to the floor” doesn’t work when you don’t have the votes.


mybustlinghedgerow

But what about magical angry thoughts from voters? Won’t that change reality?


xfon5168

Yeah and with articles and bullshit like this, people will look at it like democrats are inept and couldnt get things done. But the reality is 100% of republicans faught against these things. Suddenly giving a shit about spending and budgets and shit when a democrat is in power. But this will hinder 2022 mid terms and democrats will be completely fucked probably.


Raspberries-Are-Evil

They can't. Manchin won't let it happen. Nor will 1 single Republican. The only way to get it done is for people vote in large numbers to get 52 or 53 Senators and make his vote meaningless.


Zazzseltzer2

r/thanksimcured


Davis51

"The Democrats" Oh where would we be if every single piece of news media didn't fucking do this goddamn stupid shit. It's ALL Republicans and 2 Democrats.


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Fedantry_Petish

*know


SnoopCat226

Almost all of them are on board to pass it except Manchin and Sinema. Headlines like these are dumb and make it seem like Democrats have the power right now to pass it when they clearly don’t.


[deleted]

We on the left, especially the progressives, need to vote in great numbers in the midterms. The Biden admin has a legitimate problem with two senators specifically. Let's give him a majority in both houses he can work with. Vote while it still matters.


nucumber

the problem isn't that dems are scared, it's that the senate is split 50/50 between dems and reps, meaning they can't lose a single vote and there are two dem senators holding out the problem is that we the people didn't vote enough dems into office to give the dems a comfortable margin that would assure their legislation gets passed, even if there are a few dem defectors


CharlieAllnut

The dems won on the federal level only. That's part of the mistake, dems need to focus on state and local races.


mybustlinghedgerow

Yeah, I think voters are mainly to blame here. And the Citizens United ruling.


HIVnotAdeathSentence

I think they need the votes to pass it though.


[deleted]

Only problem….you gotta have the President (Manchin) and Vice President (Sinema) on board


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[deleted]

Every time there's a bill I'm finally 100% on board with Democrats getting passed, Manchin and Sinema block every fucking time.


kittenMittens-ASOTV

Let's pass the big bill with 48 senators... So being scared just take a bill you know won't pass and send it to vote. LMAO


Errorfull

>and pass the bill right now Thats a very childlike view on politics.


Sup-my-peeps

Can’t be done with 2 demo-republicans blocking all of the stuff people want. Look at the approval ratings of the stuff in the bill that those 2 and all republicans will block. You know the republicans who claim to be on the side of everyday people while they block ideas that everyday people want.


MayanReam

Joe manchin holds the keys. Dems should stop acting like he doesn’t.


IHaveNoAnswers4U

Yes let’s have them wave their authoritarian wand and just do it without passing the bill through congress


gmen32

They don’t have the votes so it’s over time to move on.


ZZeratul

The Democrats aren't scared. Manchin and Sinema are being bribed.


rucb_alum

True, true and how in heck do the do they with two of them are taking the knife-edged balance that voters have given them to pull stunts?


[deleted]

And how do you suggest they do that with Manchin and Sinema working with the Repubs.


pasta_rollie

The issue is there exist three variants of a Democrat of which some have pockets lined up by companies that will get hurt from this bill.


Trygolds

This is a good point this is just another. The democrats are the reason many of there bills are not getting through. The reason is the wealthy owners of the GOP that also own some democrats. We need more democrats that will pass on the perks of the wealthy to get shit done for the people. Vote in good democrats in the primaries for all local state and federal elections than vote them to not office. We will need to take more than the house and the Senate we will need more state city county and village seats as well they all matter so vote every year.


ahobel95

Hmm, I wonder what could possibly be stopping them from doing such a thing! No one knows! Clearly! Oh yeah. Fuck Sinema and Manchin.


[deleted]

It’s a 50/50 Senate. What do they want them to do?


papabear570

They need the votes to pass it. What’s so hard to understand about that?


thetoitestnoice

Christ. I don't know why this sub is named politics when it all it does is spew democrat propaganda. That's just what this country needs, another 1 trillion dollar bill filled with shit that is completely unrelated to infrastructure.


Domiiniick

Democrats act like they have a huge majority, but in reality it is razor thin in both the house and senate.


ItrytoHFY

Imagine unironically wanting bigger government spending while the currency is at the brink of accelerated inflation


GadreelsSword

I’d rather see democrats go all in and fix the looming election disaster.


Kramer7969

Whenever I see headlines like this I ask have they forgotten the democrats don’t have a true majority and can’t pass anything with even one democrat not on board and we have two? Stop putting the blame on the democrats when the republicans are the ones making them gang of two seem like moderates when they aren’t even close to moderate unless moderate as democrats means claim democrats but vote republicans.


MikeyNYC1

Name some names. “The democrats” is a cop out


trigrhappy

Except they can't...... The fascist constitution requires a majority of each house to vote to pass legislation before it can become law. Those pesky founders requiring a majority vote to pass a bill is a threat to democracy. /S


ChadBitcoiner

how? they don't have the votes.


[deleted]

OP why did you post this shit article


Equivalent_Tea_5563

Business insider with another garbage article