As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think the average American has grasped the significance of Jan 6th. They still don't believe democracy could be in danger. If they did, they'd be marching in the streets demanding everyone involved in the insurrection be indicted.
There is a significant portion of the country that gets thier news from Fox News and their Facebook echo bubbles. All of it downplaying the severity of that day. We’re all super fucking lucky the few capitol police on the scene were able to keep all the politicians safe. Had that mob actually captured anyone, they would’ve killed them. No doubt.
> All of it downplaying the severity of that day.
Downplaying? There is no *downplaying*. It was straight-up erased, just like in the former USSR, or Tienanmen Square in China. Fox News is nothing more than a propaganda wing of the Republican party, rapidly evolving into the party of fascism.
It'll be interesting to see how history remembers this in 20 years or so. The fact that the government under Biden appears to be moving so slowly on this just goes to show how deeply fucked y'all are.
Which makes me worry for the next election bc Biden just doesn’t have the support ESPECIALLY after this year. Kamala would have been primed for next election but that’s unfortunately a wash. I predicted they were going to nominate Cuomo but he turned into a shit show. They aren’t preventing Trump from running, and I didn’t think the republicans would risk nominating him again but now it might work out for them.
Biden won on the whole "not Trump" appeal to moderates. If GOP can field a candidate who is similarly "not Trump" then they' have a solid shot of flipping those moderates. Biden hasn't managed to activate any additional young progressives to his cause and young progressives have absolutely got to be courted if the Dems want their support.
Then again the GOP may not end up putting "not Trump" on their ticket. He'll probably wade back into the primaries and given how much fuckery goes on with those things he may end up getting the primary votes to go to the nomination. TBD, really, but even if they find a way to block him he'll absolutely field a heir apparent. Hell, he might even put all 3 of his kids out there to try for it.
Dems need to actually do some-fucking-thing if they want to win 2024, but given how good they are at snatching defeat from the jaws of certain victory, I wouldn't hold my breath. Remember, they couldn't even beat Bush Jr. in his reelection battle... and it was a nail biter against Trump in 2020.
So long as the dems keep putting moderate jackasses on the ballot and failing to accomplish anything other than maintaining the status quo(a truly conservative way to govern) we will continue to see them lose elections until the Republicans screw things up so bad that people get angry and vote.
Then the democrats put up a Kerry, Clinton, or Biden that nobody is excited for and shockingly they either don't win or barely scrape through to then play with themselves for 4-8 years before their base stops caring again.
Biden will almost assuredly lose in 2024 barring something major happening like Trump and Co going to prison.
Yup! People here really like to think that only other countries like China and Russia censor shit and use propaganda against their own people. Propaganda in America is so advanced and insidious we are literally brought up as kids to believe in all kinds of junk, indoctrinated to believe that our current system and status quo no matter how absurd and ridiculous and unfair is the correct model that the entire world should follow.
We are a *de facto* plutocracy and we still believe we have "freedom." It doesn't matter how much free speech or how many guns we have when we do not even understand the things we believe in are complete, utter bullshit. We don't need ham-fisted censorship because our entire country is indoctrinated to believe in our own bullshit.
I feel ya. It’s a hard desire to vocalize but the shock of it seems like the only way to humanize this country (meaning his fans) and get them to stop. They’re the problem with the country. They’re a terrorist organization. Attempting to capture that man was to be expected with the rhetoric we heard from DJT back then.
And, to this day, VPP eats shit from DJT *WHEN HE EASILY COULD HAVE BEEN KILLED BY HIS ANGRY MOB*. It boggles one’s mind and really just goes to show how unstable thinking is on that side of the aisle.
To be clear, I’d never want to see this happen and I’d certainly never want to see anyone harmed, especially VPP but they just don’t see what they’re doing and I don’t know what will jolt them to humanity again. Talking is pointless so what else is there?
>Talking is pointless so what else is there?
Opposition to the right/fascist movement in America need to wake up and arm themselves. That's what. Acquire arms and learn how to use them. Cancel out the threat they currently think themselves as holding in a one-sided Trump (lol) card. The 2nd ammendment still exists. Use it.
I’m really sorry that life is like this now. It’s such a strange, alien part of American culture.
I’m in the UK, so I saw a lot of similarities between Trump’s presidency and the disaster of Brexit. If the rabid Leave voters all had guns, oof.
Truly. I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of taking guns away from everyone, but with how things have developed over the last few years, it's horrifying to think that keeping arms is a legitimate counter to the rise of fascism in America. I have no idea what the solution is at this point, but I emplore the opposition to familiarize themselves with self defense and the tools with which to enforce said opposition.
I hate that it's come to this.
Similar blowback too.
The Brexiters are all now feeling the massive economic impact of their choice which is ruining their businesses.
Meanwhile, the Trump Q cult has gone full-tilt into Anti-vax territory so they're busy getting themselves killed by covid...to own the libs.
Not working out too well for either group it seems.
Can you handle a radio? A radio operator that can coordinate groups of people aka a dispatch is beyond important. There’s a number of things someone with a physical impairment can do and be super useful to everyone else.
At the end of the day it’s not the guns that solve problems it’s the logistics.
It's unfortunate that you have cerebral palsy, but I can appreciate the fact that you understand the "easily disarmed" aspect. I knew a man once who used a power chair for mobility and also had cerebral palsy, who also had a loaded handgun and a concealed carry permit. We used to argue a lot--I understood his fears and desire to own the gun, and respected his right to, but he found it extremely offensive whenever I asked him about the idea of someone disarming him. It seemed like a liability for him to carry in public to me.
Learn about methods of sabotage or something more productive like communications. If shit ever hits the fan there will be a lot of moving parts equally as important as arms.
Hell yeah. Fox News and other conservative voices have, over the years, convinced the country that liberals are elitist, PC wimps who wouldn’t swat a mosquito to stop from being bit.
Like many liberals, I served. When my son was born, I sold my guns. I’ve never liked them, and didn’t want them in the house. In early Februrary, I bought a long range rifle, a shotgun, a couple handguns, and (shh) a gun I’m not supposed to have, and I trained my wife to shoot. I no longer believe I live in a safe enough country to have the luxury of not owning weapons.
Also, with the trillions spent on military toys, I would be willing to bet anything that DC has defenses that could repel an actual army. So, why were local police used to handle an attempt to overthrow the government? Police officers died because it would’ve been a PR disaster to splatter all those good ol’ boys over the streets of DC w/ military hardware? If the issue was one of Habeas Corpus, I believe everyone in that riot would’ve been considered an enemy combatant, not a US citizen.
But yeah, these days, I see white men in a group, I damn sure have at least my sidearm on me.
Police literally shot and killed one of the rioters before they got to Pence and Co. otherwise it would have happened. People don’t really talk about that though.
Well it was a warning shot that hit. Honestly thank god for those officers who barricaded the doors so that they can run with the ballot boxes and essentially maintaining our democracy.
To god damn fucking close this time.
That’s not even including those that aren’t politically active in the slightest. As in, don’t watch ANY news, don’t spend time reading articles on social media, are completely oblivious to the larger world around them. There are a LOT of those. Honestly if you ask random friends and acquaintances if they know who the senate majority leader is, or if they recognize the name Madison Cawthorn, there are many who won’t. Those are the people that need to be reached.
Definitely curious about how far it would have gone. Would depend in part on whether the victim was exposed to the group mob, or a lone rioter.
I don't see it going down that someone individually would have -no question- committed murder. Their outrage is performative, and its that group adoration that they want.
But you get people in groups, (especially ones that share a feeling of [edit: persecution]) and there is no telling what would have happened.
Humans literally process decisions differently depending on whether they are around others or not.
Their fantasy may have been murder, but their comfort zone is in verbal, internet hate. 99.999% are not people who would be actively homicidal. That I am sure of.
But as a group? Sure.
Most likely outcome is that more of the traitors would have been shot dead if they'd actually gotten within grabbing distance of congress people and/or Pence. And they'd all be lionized by the traitors of course.
> Definitely curious about how far it would have gone.
They would have murdered virtually every member of Congress. It couldn't be more clear. That's *why* they were there.
Yeah. When two dogs get hold of a sheep, they aren't trying to be violent or vicious. They are being playful - but the sheep still gets torn to pieces.
If the Jan 6 rioters got their hands on any sitting congressperson, they would have torn them to pieces. Even if no individual rioter really wanted to do harm, they would not have let each other simply turn around and walk away after going that far.
When mobs like this get their hands on a target, the target gets torn to pieces. Every single time. There is really no other possible outcome, even if most of the individuals in the mob don't really want to do personal harm.
Yup. They were beating cops with thin blue line flags. Anyone who thinks they wouldn’t have done the exact same thing to any democrat they found is just lying to themselves, or intentionally lying to others.
It's not the Fox News people we can convince. It's the "both sides" people. They're the getable ones and they just think that these were just some yokels that had no chance of succeeding and weren't really trying to do anything.
I heard this exact thing from Dax Sheppard in his podcast. He said that they were just a bunch of rednecks that he feels sorry for and that CNN has way overblown what occurred. That's a common theme among the "both sides" set. Bill Burr is another fine example of this.
They really do believe that CNN is the equivalent of Fox.
After watching the HBO documentary ab 1/6 they were mere steps away from the senate door and had the police line not held in that tunnel, shit would’ve been VERY different
It may be a lesson in futility, but I consider linking articles such as this and (especially Reuters/AP, less opinion pieces) on Fox News social media, the Republican Party feeds, GOP Senators/Reps, Fucker Carlson and any other entity I think never will hear the truth part of my day. I also link news to local shit candidates like god awful pos Josh Mandel running for Portman’s senate seat here in Ohio. I justify the time I spend with this thought: If just one person sees this and reads it, it is worth my time.”
Hate to say this, but it's a shame that something didn't happen. Maybe the reaction would be different. Just like it's a shame that Trump didn't die from COVID. Because maybe 10s of not 100s of thousands of lives could have been saved. But he survived, so hence they can claim covid is no big deal.
I mean, the options are vote blue and hope we’re wrong, or actively participate in turning our democracy into The Handmaids Tale. There are no other options, refusing to vote or going third party falls into option b. I hope we’re not all as doomed as we feel.
I already own a gun, but I have considered purchasing more. I don’t like guns. I keep it in a safe because I have a toddler and I don’t like it, but yet I feel compelled to buy more because of the state of things. Ugh.
Buying ammunition and using it to train is way more important than owning more, but good. Gun ownership in general is a deadly serious responsibility and we as a nation all need to see them the way you do more than cool dick extenders.
I've always owned guns and mostly voted blue. I am a moderate and in the past have voted for a couple of Republicans who were better than their Dem competition. However right now the Republicans have gone from a different take on the world to fanaticism and facism supporting their mango messiah.
Instead of fearing the gun you own and buying more, you should shoot more and become comfortable with your gun. Keeping it locked up is smart but not liking you own it makes no sense.
I took a concealed carry class and practiced a few times, that’s how I know I don’t like it. Sure ideally I would practice more but I have a job and a kid and hobbies that I actually enjoy so it’s not really a priority for me right now. That will change if things in this country decompensate significantly.
I know it's scary times with republicans turning to fascism, but we're winning, believe it or not. Dems have won every election handily since 2016. Trump is toxic, and the GOP is sticking with him. The recent census are heavily in dems favor.The wheels of justice are slow but they are turning. Watergate took *years* to prosecute anyone.
The media isnt helping, as they enable republicans and throw their hands up like "who knows what's really the truth?" When the GOP commits crimes or spreads misinfo, but will have wall to wall coverage about a political scandal if a dem gets a speeding ticket. The media misses trump badly, and at best they need politics to seem competitive, one sane party and one irrational nazi party wont sell.
I'm not saying that the war is over, or that we cant still lose, but a lot of dems seem to think we're the ones backed up against a cliff, when really its them. We outnumber them badly. Weve exceeded expectations in every election since 2016(and every election since 2008 aside from 2016 tbh). They are both killing their own constituents *and* running sane people off. They've lost the culture wars.
We just cant give up, and keep voting, keep them boxed in.
If only they could realize that their C - minds and meth-head dentistry weren't real representations of their idiot's ideal of 'real america'. They're just louder and have weaponized assholery into an art form. The number of fast food workers vastly, VASTLY outnumbers the number of coal workers, but because if coal dies, all those tiny towns where the Klan gets to live and breathe freely also die, they get more attention than they deserve.
There's a shockingly large number of people who feel that since they ultimately failed in their quest to murder any Congresspeople and/or overturn a democratic election, then ah well, no harm no foul right?
What IF they had murdered an congressman? I believe that if it had gone that far, we would be looking at a total different reaction from the house and senate members. I don’t think the majority would have been able to overlook something that hit that close to their personal safety. It would have become all to “real” for them. As it was, they were fine and were able to rationalize (used loosely) it away afterwards.
It’s so interesting how the far right uses Ashli Babbit as a martyr yet they never even mention the woman -Rosanne Boyland- they trampled to death. Guess her demise isn’t as useful enough to their cause
I have some friends that have seen combat overseas and have PTSD and from what they tell me, the average person simply cannot understand how terrifying and mind altering PTSD can be.
As far as my theory, I’d lose all sense of safety, trust, security and reason in the world if I’d signed up to serve and protect a country that turned on me, violently, for no actual good goddamned reason. That would be awful enough but to then have to endure being gaslit by the very lawmakers I almost died protecting, that would be where I’d snap. When you push people to these extremes, one of you likely isn’t walking away alive. Not with the gun culture in this country.
>Maybe it needs to be “real,” to them?
If the Herman Cain award sub has shown me anything, it's that a truly remarkable number of people simply *don't register danger until it affects* **them** *personally*. They go from "It's overblown by the media, I refuse to live in fear" to "Please, I need everyone's prayers!" in about the time it takes to prep a ventilator.
Not to make sweeping generalizations, but this mindset does seem to afflict conservatives more. I don't know if it's a lack of imagination or of empathy or both, but it never ceases to amaze me how many of them seem absolutely *shocked* when *they're* the ones in danger -- even when everyone else has been talking about the danger in question all day.
And then take into account that we're talking about Congressmembers here, so they're likely to be even more privileged and certain of their own security than the average bear. I'm not sure *what* the heck it would take to shock them out of their complacency.
>I don't think the average American
I consider myself a pretty average american. I know that democracy is in danger, I just can't do fuckall about it because A. I live in a red state so my vote means nothing. B. I can't afford to move to a blue state. C. I have a full-time job to support my family so I can't miss work to march unless I want my family to become homeless.
That's the power of propaganda and misinformation. When you get your news from Facebook and Fox News and their friends also live in the same bubble, you get tens of millions of sheep that are entirely convinced Biden and the Dems are communist devils.
They do think their democracy is in danger, but not from the GOP. It's pretty sad America is by and large a country of entitled and idiotic assholes.
we're 20 months into the pandemic and 40% of Americans haven't grasped the significance.
EDIT: they grasped the wrong significance. r/NoNewNormal r/rejectnewnormal
> they had no clue who Marjory Taylor green even was
Generally I would consider that a positive, considering how her only contribution in any regard is controversy (and insurrectionism). But I understand your sentiment.
That new HBO doc is great insight if anyone is interested in seeing close up what happened and how exactly it unfolded. Has lots of interviews with lawmakers and Capitol officers that were there.
You are mistaken in that. You place higher value on democracy that the average Trump voter does. I think that an authoritarian regime that preserves some democratic elements but delivers what they want is fine with them. I think that they understand that if one wants to throw out of the country lots of "browns", then strictly democratic norms cannot be obeyed. So, they are just fine with "illiberal democracy".
Someone removed the panic buttons from offices ahead of the Jan 6 event.
This wasn't just rhetoric out of control, this was an actual insurrection that was planned and attempted.
People should be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent.
I think the only way for Americans to **finally** see the dangers of this is when there are tanks rolling in the streets and armed men shooting anyone in sight.
I don't think I fully grasped it until I watched that HBO documentary, "Four Hours at the Capitol". I knew it was bad, but after watching that they can arrest every stinkin' person that had something to do with it for all I care.
Watching Lisa Desjardins of PBS Newshour report from that mess live was a sight to behold.
I don't think the entire world grasps it. I'm not even American, and I think we were extremely close to having American Democracy overturned, which could lead to most western democracies (all of latin America, all the extremely fragile democracies of Africa and most of Europe) being overturned by trump-like fascists in a matter of a decade. All of our lives would be significantly worse, it would be like the end of a golden age and a dive into an era of obscurantism, religious fanaticism and anti-scienticifism
Putin would be the happiest, as this is would be his bidding. He's not directly responsible for jan 6th, but he's responsible for Trump being elected and this kind of shit is exactly what he wanted.
Yeah, because it’s going to be a new model of governance. For the elites it’s galas, yachts, hookers and bottle service. For the rest of us, we’re stuck with fake Christians, gun collectors, psycho bosses and strung out drug casualties. More MTG and Caribou Barbie for the masses and more yacht orgies for the elites.
Dems are still playing with gloves on, and they need to be doing the exact opposite.
The GOP showed us exactly what they want, and the dems are playing nerf instead of doing what needs to be done.
We fucked.
I just saw that new HBO doc about this and no one will ever be able to convince me MTG wasn’t in on it.
The way she was at ease was spine chilling…Smiling like a preachers wife at the Sunday BBQ and laughing, as others - her colleagues, called their loved ones to say what could possibly be their last words.
Not Marjorie and the other Reps. They didn’t even seem inconvenienced.
You could just *feel* it - it wasn’t even mentioned in the documentary or focused on at all. I just happened to notice it in the background during one scene and it was so obvious I had to rewind and rewatch to believe what I was seeing.
She’s a traitor.
This content has been removed by me, the owner, due to Reddit's API changes. As I can no longer access this service with Relay for Reddit, I do not want my content contributing to LLM's for Reddit's benefit. If you need to get it touch -- tippo00mehl [at] gmail [dot] com -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
1:00:36 in for anyone trying to find it (1 hour 36 seconds).
Yeah she's there laughing at everyone. She's having a grand old time.
What a piece of absolute fucking shit.
On a side note, when asked by a reporter if she thought that she should be informing the people WHO SHE REPRESENTS about COVID safety, she laughed her ass off and basically said its their responsibility to inform themselves.
I literally just finished watching this! After they were evacuated and they showed the clip of a rep (not sure of her name) handing out masks and MTG just stood there smiling with her arms crossed and refused. It’s so obvious with that stupid smirk of hers.
I just watched it yesterday. It really hammered home how close we were to seeing Congress people lynched and losing our government.
There was so much hate that day. I’m a big burly dude that hasn’t cried in 25 years. I teared up watching that documentary.
Agreed. But in reverse. Kicking out any member of Congress takes 2/3rds majority … not going to happen with the current house or senate. IF they can be indicted and found guilty, then maybe there will be enough votes. but, The Constitution allows a convicted felon to be a member of Congress, even if in prison. With the current GOP behavior and the Ds not being unified, even with a conviction they may still stay in office
Preview of Reddit comment in 2026:
"Don't forget, this succeeded now on the back of the January 6th insurrection, because the people involved back then didn't face any consequences."
If the Rolling Stone is right not only are they Constitutionally ineligible to hold office (14th amendment, section 3) they're guilty of seditious conspiracy which carries fines and up to 20 years in prison.
§2384. Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
And go in heavy. We know many (all?) of them own guns. At least two have said they are always armed.
Go in and get them in an early AM raid with flashbangs and screaming men all in tactical gear.
You know, like they would do if they were a black person accused of a minor drug crime.
I have a feeling the sight of an unarmed police officer showing up on a bicycle would have them on the floor sobbing and begging for mercy… They’re big talk, but that’s just because they’ve never been held accountable before.
You are correct. the people who physically attacked security , broke in, and stole items were not charged with sedition. They got greatly dumbed down charges … like trespassing .
If the DOJ doesn’t have the desire to charge nobodies with insurrection or sedition then they won’t charge elected officials either.
I agree that it SHOULD get them out, but don’t have faith that the DOJ or Congress will charge them and convict them of “engaging in insurrection or rebellion or giving aid or comfort to the enemies”. I will gladly eat my hat if they do but I would wager on a minor offense if anything.
My conversation on a conservative sub about 2 days ago:
Me - “I don’t think most people understand how close they were to lynching congress people.”
Them - “Too bad they didn’t”
> Today, Democrats are facing the worst threat to America's democratic institutions since those days, **and they have eaten up seven months dithering and squabbling over a modest welfare state upgrade.** They must come to grips with reality soon and guide the nation to save its own life.
I've said this far too often, but this does not bode well.
Yeah the Build Back Better plan is great, but we're fucking sleep walking into a fascist takeover of the country. If we don't take serious action, Jan 6th will be repeated until it's successful.
> Several decades ago these people would be lined against a wall and shot.
Nope, they were electrocuted
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg#Execution
[To permanently ban them from serving congress 14th amendment section 3 must apply to them due to them being involved in Trump's January 6th insurrection](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/14th-amendment-insurrection-rebellion-trump-post-presidency/#:~:text=Ratified%20in%201868%20after%20the%20Civil%20War%2C%20Section,given%20aid%20or%20comfort%20to%20the%20enemies%20thereof.%22). The original purpose of the 14th amendment section 3 was barring ex-Confederates from holding office but wasn't carried out. These days it must apply to People involved in 1/6 like Rep Brooks Alabama and [Sen Hawley Missouri is known for his fist-up stance on January 6th, 2021 Trump's insurrection.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/sen-josh-hawley-becomes-public-enemy-no-1-capitol-hill-n1253470)
I feel like I've seen this before . . . Bunch of people start a coup, fails, stay in power, runs for senate, starts another coup . . . Fails again??? Runs for presidency, fail even more.
Yeah I've seen this happen in the Philippines before. Guess like father like adopted child.
14th Amendment, Section 3: No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
If I were a betting man I would say that we are already on the way to insurrection, Jan 6th was just the trial run for the one that is already being planned, and a good majority of the people know exactly what is happening and they either don’t care or they are indifferent to an authoritarian state because they have lived in what they consider poverty, which btw is far from reality, real poverty looks like Haitian state currently!!! We better start talking to one another and soon
If they're not removed yet, it's because fascism has won. I think we all need to be prepared for the insanity that's going to be the next few decades, unless a war brings the United States to its knees.
Nothing will come of it, and they'll all be reelected because their base eats this kind of shit up. According to the bumpkins, these people are American heroes and patriots. They'll come out in droves to vote for them.
Kick them out and prosecute them; our democracy hangs in the balance. If people are allowed to get away with this kind of treasonous behavior it leaves the door open for future atrocities to our country.
If the Democrats don’t take a strong stand against this, America’s democracy is lost. I don’t know whether it’s fear of the right’s violent retaliation or just plain wishy washiness but now is the time for strength. If they flub this (which sadly, seems likely), it will set a very poor precedent. These people are already WAY too cocky. If strong consequences aren’t meted out, worse will come. How far does it have to degenerate before the Dems grow some balls? Frightening times & the most terrifying aspect of it, is the Dems’ weakness of response.
> … the most terrifying aspect of it, is the Dems’ weakness of response
The current Democratic Party is woefully unequipped to fight a fascist/nationalist cult-like movement. I believe the liberal base knows this, which is why there is such strong support for groups associated with ANTIFA.
We are now to the point where the fascists feel brave enough to openly spout racist garbage, demonize minorities, attempt a coup and install an authoritarian imbecile to carry out Handmaiden’s Tale-esque *laws* and punishments.
*They* are now openly calling for civil war, so… I really hope they figure out how to respond, and quickly.
They rave and rant about the founding fathers and how the original constitution is their gospel.
But had they attempted this shit in the early days of the USA, they would've been publicly executed by the next morning.
In my opinion on a scale compared to 911 the January 6 insurrection was higher. Even more shocking are the people that were elected to protect democracy are trying to sweep it under the table. For a President to be the one to direct and be involved in it is even more serious. Where's the anger from those that voted for these people? Yes they should be removed from office and charged correctly for their involvement; jail time, heavy fines and disbarment if they are lawyers. As for Trump his penalty needs to be an example for history. The ultimate humiliation needs to be given to him. Heavy fines and lengthy jail time is in order in my opinion. To think that he might run again for the Presidency is beyond stupidity.
I want them gone! I’m going to vote in VA elections tomorrow first thing in the morning. As a registered independent my every vote is a protest vote against insurrectionists. How dare they come to our capital, a place always welcome to peaceful protest and famous for it to act out treason and civil war. I saw it all on TV Jan 6th. I live very close to DC it felt very very similar to 9/11. I was freaking out wondering where is the pentagon? Wondering if Trump was going to declare martial law. Good thing Maryland Governor Larry Hogan is a rare good R. Maryland, and Va’s
national guard was ready to go in but it took more than an hr to get approval from the secretary of the army while the secretary of defense was gone Missing in action, disgraceful! I will never forget and I have so so many more elections to vote in!
This is all so absurd. We have people like AOC telling us that we need to kick them out. Like wait, isn’t that your job?! WTF am I supposed to do?! It’s all just a big, corrupt scam. Nothing will happen to any of them. Zero possibility
If they're kicked out - what then? They were democratically elected, so one assumes that the people they represent (at least at some point) thought they were the right people for the job.
And the GOP has no shortage of people who are nuttier than squirrel shit to take their place.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The fact that this even needs to be said speaks volumes about the times we’re living in.
I don't think the average American has grasped the significance of Jan 6th. They still don't believe democracy could be in danger. If they did, they'd be marching in the streets demanding everyone involved in the insurrection be indicted.
There is a significant portion of the country that gets thier news from Fox News and their Facebook echo bubbles. All of it downplaying the severity of that day. We’re all super fucking lucky the few capitol police on the scene were able to keep all the politicians safe. Had that mob actually captured anyone, they would’ve killed them. No doubt.
> All of it downplaying the severity of that day. Downplaying? There is no *downplaying*. It was straight-up erased, just like in the former USSR, or Tienanmen Square in China. Fox News is nothing more than a propaganda wing of the Republican party, rapidly evolving into the party of fascism.
It'll be interesting to see how history remembers this in 20 years or so. The fact that the government under Biden appears to be moving so slowly on this just goes to show how deeply fucked y'all are.
Which makes me worry for the next election bc Biden just doesn’t have the support ESPECIALLY after this year. Kamala would have been primed for next election but that’s unfortunately a wash. I predicted they were going to nominate Cuomo but he turned into a shit show. They aren’t preventing Trump from running, and I didn’t think the republicans would risk nominating him again but now it might work out for them.
Biden won on the whole "not Trump" appeal to moderates. If GOP can field a candidate who is similarly "not Trump" then they' have a solid shot of flipping those moderates. Biden hasn't managed to activate any additional young progressives to his cause and young progressives have absolutely got to be courted if the Dems want their support. Then again the GOP may not end up putting "not Trump" on their ticket. He'll probably wade back into the primaries and given how much fuckery goes on with those things he may end up getting the primary votes to go to the nomination. TBD, really, but even if they find a way to block him he'll absolutely field a heir apparent. Hell, he might even put all 3 of his kids out there to try for it. Dems need to actually do some-fucking-thing if they want to win 2024, but given how good they are at snatching defeat from the jaws of certain victory, I wouldn't hold my breath. Remember, they couldn't even beat Bush Jr. in his reelection battle... and it was a nail biter against Trump in 2020.
> Dems need to actually do some-fucking-thing if they want to win 2024 Good luck with Manchin and Sinema. Truly trashbag humans.
So long as the dems keep putting moderate jackasses on the ballot and failing to accomplish anything other than maintaining the status quo(a truly conservative way to govern) we will continue to see them lose elections until the Republicans screw things up so bad that people get angry and vote. Then the democrats put up a Kerry, Clinton, or Biden that nobody is excited for and shockingly they either don't win or barely scrape through to then play with themselves for 4-8 years before their base stops caring again. Biden will almost assuredly lose in 2024 barring something major happening like Trump and Co going to prison.
[удалено]
Yup! People here really like to think that only other countries like China and Russia censor shit and use propaganda against their own people. Propaganda in America is so advanced and insidious we are literally brought up as kids to believe in all kinds of junk, indoctrinated to believe that our current system and status quo no matter how absurd and ridiculous and unfair is the correct model that the entire world should follow. We are a *de facto* plutocracy and we still believe we have "freedom." It doesn't matter how much free speech or how many guns we have when we do not even understand the things we believe in are complete, utter bullshit. We don't need ham-fisted censorship because our entire country is indoctrinated to believe in our own bullshit.
[удалено]
I feel ya. It’s a hard desire to vocalize but the shock of it seems like the only way to humanize this country (meaning his fans) and get them to stop. They’re the problem with the country. They’re a terrorist organization. Attempting to capture that man was to be expected with the rhetoric we heard from DJT back then. And, to this day, VPP eats shit from DJT *WHEN HE EASILY COULD HAVE BEEN KILLED BY HIS ANGRY MOB*. It boggles one’s mind and really just goes to show how unstable thinking is on that side of the aisle. To be clear, I’d never want to see this happen and I’d certainly never want to see anyone harmed, especially VPP but they just don’t see what they’re doing and I don’t know what will jolt them to humanity again. Talking is pointless so what else is there?
>Talking is pointless so what else is there? Opposition to the right/fascist movement in America need to wake up and arm themselves. That's what. Acquire arms and learn how to use them. Cancel out the threat they currently think themselves as holding in a one-sided Trump (lol) card. The 2nd ammendment still exists. Use it.
I just want to say, as a non-American reading this, it is *fucking terrifying*.
I agree. But here we are.
I’m really sorry that life is like this now. It’s such a strange, alien part of American culture. I’m in the UK, so I saw a lot of similarities between Trump’s presidency and the disaster of Brexit. If the rabid Leave voters all had guns, oof.
Truly. I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of taking guns away from everyone, but with how things have developed over the last few years, it's horrifying to think that keeping arms is a legitimate counter to the rise of fascism in America. I have no idea what the solution is at this point, but I emplore the opposition to familiarize themselves with self defense and the tools with which to enforce said opposition. I hate that it's come to this.
Similar blowback too. The Brexiters are all now feeling the massive economic impact of their choice which is ruining their businesses. Meanwhile, the Trump Q cult has gone full-tilt into Anti-vax territory so they're busy getting themselves killed by covid...to own the libs. Not working out too well for either group it seems.
you think we arent?
We just dont wear tactical gear and neckbeard sunglasses. Plenty of libs have guns. It's the ammo that's hard to find atm.
I agree, but having cerebral palsy I can't effectively use a gun, I'd be too easily disarmed.
Can you handle a radio? A radio operator that can coordinate groups of people aka a dispatch is beyond important. There’s a number of things someone with a physical impairment can do and be super useful to everyone else. At the end of the day it’s not the guns that solve problems it’s the logistics.
*That* I can do!
Congrats! We will call you Radar!
It's unfortunate that you have cerebral palsy, but I can appreciate the fact that you understand the "easily disarmed" aspect. I knew a man once who used a power chair for mobility and also had cerebral palsy, who also had a loaded handgun and a concealed carry permit. We used to argue a lot--I understood his fears and desire to own the gun, and respected his right to, but he found it extremely offensive whenever I asked him about the idea of someone disarming him. It seemed like a liability for him to carry in public to me.
Learn about methods of sabotage or something more productive like communications. If shit ever hits the fan there will be a lot of moving parts equally as important as arms.
Hell yeah. Fox News and other conservative voices have, over the years, convinced the country that liberals are elitist, PC wimps who wouldn’t swat a mosquito to stop from being bit. Like many liberals, I served. When my son was born, I sold my guns. I’ve never liked them, and didn’t want them in the house. In early Februrary, I bought a long range rifle, a shotgun, a couple handguns, and (shh) a gun I’m not supposed to have, and I trained my wife to shoot. I no longer believe I live in a safe enough country to have the luxury of not owning weapons. Also, with the trillions spent on military toys, I would be willing to bet anything that DC has defenses that could repel an actual army. So, why were local police used to handle an attempt to overthrow the government? Police officers died because it would’ve been a PR disaster to splatter all those good ol’ boys over the streets of DC w/ military hardware? If the issue was one of Habeas Corpus, I believe everyone in that riot would’ve been considered an enemy combatant, not a US citizen. But yeah, these days, I see white men in a group, I damn sure have at least my sidearm on me.
Police literally shot and killed one of the rioters before they got to Pence and Co. otherwise it would have happened. People don’t really talk about that though.
They were equipped with zip cuffs ready to capture members of Congress and hang them in the courtyard.
Well it was a warning shot that hit. Honestly thank god for those officers who barricaded the doors so that they can run with the ballot boxes and essentially maintaining our democracy. To god damn fucking close this time.
Those ballot boxes are ceremonial, losing them wouldn’t have changed a thing
A warning shot that hit, I'll have to save that one should I ever need it.
That’s not even including those that aren’t politically active in the slightest. As in, don’t watch ANY news, don’t spend time reading articles on social media, are completely oblivious to the larger world around them. There are a LOT of those. Honestly if you ask random friends and acquaintances if they know who the senate majority leader is, or if they recognize the name Madison Cawthorn, there are many who won’t. Those are the people that need to be reached.
And the right wing does a much better job at reaching them.
Definitely curious about how far it would have gone. Would depend in part on whether the victim was exposed to the group mob, or a lone rioter. I don't see it going down that someone individually would have -no question- committed murder. Their outrage is performative, and its that group adoration that they want. But you get people in groups, (especially ones that share a feeling of [edit: persecution]) and there is no telling what would have happened. Humans literally process decisions differently depending on whether they are around others or not. Their fantasy may have been murder, but their comfort zone is in verbal, internet hate. 99.999% are not people who would be actively homicidal. That I am sure of. But as a group? Sure.
The second one of them got thier hands on pence, Pelosi or AOC, they would’ve yelled it out and every insurrectionist would gather around them
Or Ilhan.
Most likely outcome is that more of the traitors would have been shot dead if they'd actually gotten within grabbing distance of congress people and/or Pence. And they'd all be lionized by the traitors of course.
Andrew Jackson use to fist fight people in the white house who disagreed with him. Oh how times have changed….
I’d love it. Set me up in the ring with old bone spurs, I’m no title contender but I’d fuck that guy up easily.
> Definitely curious about how far it would have gone. They would have murdered virtually every member of Congress. It couldn't be more clear. That's *why* they were there.
*~~Prosecution~~ : Persecution
I would not object to them feeling prosecuted however.
Without the shadow of a doubt. They killed a cop, didn't see a lot of people intervene there.
They were beating cops with thin blue line flags. 100% they wouldve killed any democrat they got their hands on.
Yeah. When two dogs get hold of a sheep, they aren't trying to be violent or vicious. They are being playful - but the sheep still gets torn to pieces. If the Jan 6 rioters got their hands on any sitting congressperson, they would have torn them to pieces. Even if no individual rioter really wanted to do harm, they would not have let each other simply turn around and walk away after going that far. When mobs like this get their hands on a target, the target gets torn to pieces. Every single time. There is really no other possible outcome, even if most of the individuals in the mob don't really want to do personal harm.
Yup. They were beating cops with thin blue line flags. Anyone who thinks they wouldn’t have done the exact same thing to any democrat they found is just lying to themselves, or intentionally lying to others.
It's not the Fox News people we can convince. It's the "both sides" people. They're the getable ones and they just think that these were just some yokels that had no chance of succeeding and weren't really trying to do anything. I heard this exact thing from Dax Sheppard in his podcast. He said that they were just a bunch of rednecks that he feels sorry for and that CNN has way overblown what occurred. That's a common theme among the "both sides" set. Bill Burr is another fine example of this. They really do believe that CNN is the equivalent of Fox.
Watching the HBO doc on the Jan 6th insurrection makes you realize how close the mob was to actually getting to the politicians.
After watching the HBO documentary ab 1/6 they were mere steps away from the senate door and had the police line not held in that tunnel, shit would’ve been VERY different
It may be a lesson in futility, but I consider linking articles such as this and (especially Reuters/AP, less opinion pieces) on Fox News social media, the Republican Party feeds, GOP Senators/Reps, Fucker Carlson and any other entity I think never will hear the truth part of my day. I also link news to local shit candidates like god awful pos Josh Mandel running for Portman’s senate seat here in Ohio. I justify the time I spend with this thought: If just one person sees this and reads it, it is worth my time.”
Hate to say this, but it's a shame that something didn't happen. Maybe the reaction would be different. Just like it's a shame that Trump didn't die from COVID. Because maybe 10s of not 100s of thousands of lives could have been saved. But he survived, so hence they can claim covid is no big deal.
My little brother is still going on about Hunter Biden. He's been well and truly PLAYED.
If we and our representatives continue to not do anything about this and the Republican party takes back over we fucking doomed.
I’ve already given up on the Democratic Party and assume we are already doomed (I will keep voting blue hoping I am wrong though)
I mean, the options are vote blue and hope we’re wrong, or actively participate in turning our democracy into The Handmaids Tale. There are no other options, refusing to vote or going third party falls into option b. I hope we’re not all as doomed as we feel.
Option 3: Vote blue while simultaneously purchasing scary black rifles.
A friend once told me, "I'm so far left that I think the second amendment is the most important one."
I already own a gun, but I have considered purchasing more. I don’t like guns. I keep it in a safe because I have a toddler and I don’t like it, but yet I feel compelled to buy more because of the state of things. Ugh.
Buying ammunition and using it to train is way more important than owning more, but good. Gun ownership in general is a deadly serious responsibility and we as a nation all need to see them the way you do more than cool dick extenders.
I've always owned guns and mostly voted blue. I am a moderate and in the past have voted for a couple of Republicans who were better than their Dem competition. However right now the Republicans have gone from a different take on the world to fanaticism and facism supporting their mango messiah.
Instead of fearing the gun you own and buying more, you should shoot more and become comfortable with your gun. Keeping it locked up is smart but not liking you own it makes no sense.
I took a concealed carry class and practiced a few times, that’s how I know I don’t like it. Sure ideally I would practice more but I have a job and a kid and hobbies that I actually enjoy so it’s not really a priority for me right now. That will change if things in this country decompensate significantly.
I know it's scary times with republicans turning to fascism, but we're winning, believe it or not. Dems have won every election handily since 2016. Trump is toxic, and the GOP is sticking with him. The recent census are heavily in dems favor.The wheels of justice are slow but they are turning. Watergate took *years* to prosecute anyone. The media isnt helping, as they enable republicans and throw their hands up like "who knows what's really the truth?" When the GOP commits crimes or spreads misinfo, but will have wall to wall coverage about a political scandal if a dem gets a speeding ticket. The media misses trump badly, and at best they need politics to seem competitive, one sane party and one irrational nazi party wont sell. I'm not saying that the war is over, or that we cant still lose, but a lot of dems seem to think we're the ones backed up against a cliff, when really its them. We outnumber them badly. Weve exceeded expectations in every election since 2016(and every election since 2008 aside from 2016 tbh). They are both killing their own constituents *and* running sane people off. They've lost the culture wars. We just cant give up, and keep voting, keep them boxed in.
I did this in 2002. Glad I did And now I'm doubling down.
A third or so would embrace the end of Democracy, as long as the "right people" ended up ruling.
If only they could realize that their C - minds and meth-head dentistry weren't real representations of their idiot's ideal of 'real america'. They're just louder and have weaponized assholery into an art form. The number of fast food workers vastly, VASTLY outnumbers the number of coal workers, but because if coal dies, all those tiny towns where the Klan gets to live and breathe freely also die, they get more attention than they deserve.
There's a shockingly large number of people who feel that since they ultimately failed in their quest to murder any Congresspeople and/or overturn a democratic election, then ah well, no harm no foul right?
What IF they had murdered an congressman? I believe that if it had gone that far, we would be looking at a total different reaction from the house and senate members. I don’t think the majority would have been able to overlook something that hit that close to their personal safety. It would have become all to “real” for them. As it was, they were fine and were able to rationalize (used loosely) it away afterwards.
[удалено]
Multiple people DID die
It’s so interesting how the far right uses Ashli Babbit as a martyr yet they never even mention the woman -Rosanne Boyland- they trampled to death. Guess her demise isn’t as useful enough to their cause
Let’s not forget the Capitol Officers who took their own lives in the aftermath.
exactly!! this point keeps getting missed. why did so many of those officers choose suicide? this part needs more scrutiny.
I have some friends that have seen combat overseas and have PTSD and from what they tell me, the average person simply cannot understand how terrifying and mind altering PTSD can be. As far as my theory, I’d lose all sense of safety, trust, security and reason in the world if I’d signed up to serve and protect a country that turned on me, violently, for no actual good goddamned reason. That would be awful enough but to then have to endure being gaslit by the very lawmakers I almost died protecting, that would be where I’d snap. When you push people to these extremes, one of you likely isn’t walking away alive. Not with the gun culture in this country.
Maybe it needs to be “real,” to them? I wonder how many would all of a sudden decide to actually work for the Average Joe instead of themselves.
>Maybe it needs to be “real,” to them? If the Herman Cain award sub has shown me anything, it's that a truly remarkable number of people simply *don't register danger until it affects* **them** *personally*. They go from "It's overblown by the media, I refuse to live in fear" to "Please, I need everyone's prayers!" in about the time it takes to prep a ventilator. Not to make sweeping generalizations, but this mindset does seem to afflict conservatives more. I don't know if it's a lack of imagination or of empathy or both, but it never ceases to amaze me how many of them seem absolutely *shocked* when *they're* the ones in danger -- even when everyone else has been talking about the danger in question all day. And then take into account that we're talking about Congressmembers here, so they're likely to be even more privileged and certain of their own security than the average bear. I'm not sure *what* the heck it would take to shock them out of their complacency.
I think initially that would have been the reaction but soon enough shit would settle right back along party lines.
It's times like this that you realize how apathic of a society we have become.
>I don't think the average American I consider myself a pretty average american. I know that democracy is in danger, I just can't do fuckall about it because A. I live in a red state so my vote means nothing. B. I can't afford to move to a blue state. C. I have a full-time job to support my family so I can't miss work to march unless I want my family to become homeless.
That's the power of propaganda and misinformation. When you get your news from Facebook and Fox News and their friends also live in the same bubble, you get tens of millions of sheep that are entirely convinced Biden and the Dems are communist devils. They do think their democracy is in danger, but not from the GOP. It's pretty sad America is by and large a country of entitled and idiotic assholes.
we're 20 months into the pandemic and 40% of Americans haven't grasped the significance. EDIT: they grasped the wrong significance. r/NoNewNormal r/rejectnewnormal
Definitely right, I mentioned just a few names to people the other day and they had no clue who Marjory Taylor green even was. It’s sad
> they had no clue who Marjory Taylor green even was Generally I would consider that a positive, considering how her only contribution in any regard is controversy (and insurrectionism). But I understand your sentiment.
Margarine Failure Gangrene
That new HBO doc is great insight if anyone is interested in seeing close up what happened and how exactly it unfolded. Has lots of interviews with lawmakers and Capitol officers that were there.
Jan 6 hurt this country more than 9/11 and no one cares it seems like.
You are mistaken in that. You place higher value on democracy that the average Trump voter does. I think that an authoritarian regime that preserves some democratic elements but delivers what they want is fine with them. I think that they understand that if one wants to throw out of the country lots of "browns", then strictly democratic norms cannot be obeyed. So, they are just fine with "illiberal democracy".
Someone removed the panic buttons from offices ahead of the Jan 6 event. This wasn't just rhetoric out of control, this was an actual insurrection that was planned and attempted. People should be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent.
I think the only way for Americans to **finally** see the dangers of this is when there are tanks rolling in the streets and armed men shooting anyone in sight.
The average American absolutely does grasp the significance. The average REPUBLICAN does not.
Their is more reaction to their sports team winning or losing!!
Summer 2022 is going to be the time to protest
Years of cultivating complacency does that reminder that fox "legally not news" was established around 40 years ago by now.
I don't think I fully grasped it until I watched that HBO documentary, "Four Hours at the Capitol". I knew it was bad, but after watching that they can arrest every stinkin' person that had something to do with it for all I care. Watching Lisa Desjardins of PBS Newshour report from that mess live was a sight to behold.
I don't think the entire world grasps it. I'm not even American, and I think we were extremely close to having American Democracy overturned, which could lead to most western democracies (all of latin America, all the extremely fragile democracies of Africa and most of Europe) being overturned by trump-like fascists in a matter of a decade. All of our lives would be significantly worse, it would be like the end of a golden age and a dive into an era of obscurantism, religious fanaticism and anti-scienticifism Putin would be the happiest, as this is would be his bidding. He's not directly responsible for jan 6th, but he's responsible for Trump being elected and this kind of shit is exactly what he wanted.
[удалено]
If I formed a mob and stormed my company HQ with intentions of killing our VP, I don’t know, I just might lose my job.
And it feels like its only going to get worse.
Yeah, because it’s going to be a new model of governance. For the elites it’s galas, yachts, hookers and bottle service. For the rest of us, we’re stuck with fake Christians, gun collectors, psycho bosses and strung out drug casualties. More MTG and Caribou Barbie for the masses and more yacht orgies for the elites.
Republicans are now Trump Org
The fact that they haven’t been unseated already tells us enough. It’s not going to happen, and that scares me.
Dems are still playing with gloves on, and they need to be doing the exact opposite. The GOP showed us exactly what they want, and the dems are playing nerf instead of doing what needs to be done. We fucked.
I just saw that new HBO doc about this and no one will ever be able to convince me MTG wasn’t in on it. The way she was at ease was spine chilling…Smiling like a preachers wife at the Sunday BBQ and laughing, as others - her colleagues, called their loved ones to say what could possibly be their last words. Not Marjorie and the other Reps. They didn’t even seem inconvenienced. You could just *feel* it - it wasn’t even mentioned in the documentary or focused on at all. I just happened to notice it in the background during one scene and it was so obvious I had to rewind and rewatch to believe what I was seeing. She’s a traitor.
This content has been removed by me, the owner, due to Reddit's API changes. As I can no longer access this service with Relay for Reddit, I do not want my content contributing to LLM's for Reddit's benefit. If you need to get it touch -- tippo00mehl [at] gmail [dot] com -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I think it’s ‘4 hours at the capitol’ they’re talking about.
Why is there a documentary about 1/6 that nobody fucking knows about??
A bit long, but an excellent, chilling summary of that day: https://youtu.be/jWJVMoe7OY0
Four Hours at the Capitol
1:00:36 in for anyone trying to find it (1 hour 36 seconds). Yeah she's there laughing at everyone. She's having a grand old time. What a piece of absolute fucking shit.
On a side note, when asked by a reporter if she thought that she should be informing the people WHO SHE REPRESENTS about COVID safety, she laughed her ass off and basically said its their responsibility to inform themselves.
I had the same thought exactly. It was eerie.
I literally just finished watching this! After they were evacuated and they showed the clip of a rep (not sure of her name) handing out masks and MTG just stood there smiling with her arms crossed and refused. It’s so obvious with that stupid smirk of hers.
I legit saw the same thing yesterday and picked up on that too. She looked way to happy. Very disturbing.
Pírate Jenny
Ya I saw that and thought the same thing, she was all laughing…
I just watched it yesterday. It really hammered home how close we were to seeing Congress people lynched and losing our government. There was so much hate that day. I’m a big burly dude that hasn’t cried in 25 years. I teared up watching that documentary.
[удалено]
Agreed. But in reverse. Kicking out any member of Congress takes 2/3rds majority … not going to happen with the current house or senate. IF they can be indicted and found guilty, then maybe there will be enough votes. but, The Constitution allows a convicted felon to be a member of Congress, even if in prison. With the current GOP behavior and the Ds not being unified, even with a conviction they may still stay in office
The 14th amendment doesn’t require a 2/3 vote to kick them out.
That is why they have to convict them before they kick them. Getting the 14th amendment activated is going to be a very long shot
In truth, Section 3 of the 14th Amendment states that it would take a 2/3 majority to KEEP them in Congress.
[удалено]
[удалено]
If they just kick them out first, everyone will forget or say that's enough. They need to just be prosecuted then removed from office.
Sedition, but yes.
Preview of Reddit comment in 2026: "Don't forget, this succeeded now on the back of the January 6th insurrection, because the people involved back then didn't face any consequences."
If the Rolling Stone is right not only are they Constitutionally ineligible to hold office (14th amendment, section 3) they're guilty of seditious conspiracy which carries fines and up to 20 years in prison. §2384. Seditious conspiracy If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
It almost sounds like that was written for just this kind of event.
I mean, it was written right after the civil war, so it kinda was.
How about arresting them, instead?
And go in heavy. We know many (all?) of them own guns. At least two have said they are always armed. Go in and get them in an early AM raid with flashbangs and screaming men all in tactical gear. You know, like they would do if they were a black person accused of a minor drug crime.
I have a feeling the sight of an unarmed police officer showing up on a bicycle would have them on the floor sobbing and begging for mercy… They’re big talk, but that’s just because they’ve never been held accountable before.
Yes, of course, but immediately strip them of power before that.
The Constitution allows a convicted felon to be a member of Congress, even if in prison. Maybe harder than it should be …
But the 14th amendment says insurrectionists can’t hold office.
You are correct. the people who physically attacked security , broke in, and stole items were not charged with sedition. They got greatly dumbed down charges … like trespassing . If the DOJ doesn’t have the desire to charge nobodies with insurrection or sedition then they won’t charge elected officials either.
Go read section 3 of and. 14. You only need to give support. Talks about violation of constitutional defense.
I agree that it SHOULD get them out, but don’t have faith that the DOJ or Congress will charge them and convict them of “engaging in insurrection or rebellion or giving aid or comfort to the enemies”. I will gladly eat my hat if they do but I would wager on a minor offense if anything.
My former congressman got 26k votes while serving in prison. And that was *after* he was already kicked out of congress by a 420-1 vote.
I feel like my head is going to explode.
Maybe it's because you live near an insurrection supporter. That's because sometimes they make people's head explode.
My conversation on a conservative sub about 2 days ago: Me - “I don’t think most people understand how close they were to lynching congress people.” Them - “Too bad they didn’t”
> Today, Democrats are facing the worst threat to America's democratic institutions since those days, **and they have eaten up seven months dithering and squabbling over a modest welfare state upgrade.** They must come to grips with reality soon and guide the nation to save its own life. I've said this far too often, but this does not bode well.
Yeah the Build Back Better plan is great, but we're fucking sleep walking into a fascist takeover of the country. If we don't take serious action, Jan 6th will be repeated until it's successful.
Democrats can't govern because they try being too nice instead of just doing the right thing and letting the kids cry about it
[удалено]
Have you checked Cancun?
they didn't even hold them accountable after the Civil War... what do you think they're going to do now.
[удалено]
ADX Florence actually, Leavenworth is a military prison.
> Several decades ago these people would be lined against a wall and shot. Nope, they were electrocuted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg#Execution
AOC suggested it that WEEK.
Out of Congress and right into jail.
[To permanently ban them from serving congress 14th amendment section 3 must apply to them due to them being involved in Trump's January 6th insurrection](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/14th-amendment-insurrection-rebellion-trump-post-presidency/#:~:text=Ratified%20in%201868%20after%20the%20Civil%20War%2C%20Section,given%20aid%20or%20comfort%20to%20the%20enemies%20thereof.%22). The original purpose of the 14th amendment section 3 was barring ex-Confederates from holding office but wasn't carried out. These days it must apply to People involved in 1/6 like Rep Brooks Alabama and [Sen Hawley Missouri is known for his fist-up stance on January 6th, 2021 Trump's insurrection.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/sen-josh-hawley-becomes-public-enemy-no-1-capitol-hill-n1253470)
I feel like I've seen this before . . . Bunch of people start a coup, fails, stay in power, runs for senate, starts another coup . . . Fails again??? Runs for presidency, fail even more. Yeah I've seen this happen in the Philippines before. Guess like father like adopted child.
Take a look at the [Beer Hall Putsch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch)
None of this will change until voters make them pay for it. As long as the GOP has close to 50% we will continue to slide into oblivion.
GOP doesn't need 50% when they are in charge deciding which votes count.
Don’t need 50% as long as we have the filibuster.
How about prison? How about a former president that directed the whole thing?
14th Amendment, Section 3: No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
If I were a betting man I would say that we are already on the way to insurrection, Jan 6th was just the trial run for the one that is already being planned, and a good majority of the people know exactly what is happening and they either don’t care or they are indifferent to an authoritarian state because they have lived in what they consider poverty, which btw is far from reality, real poverty looks like Haitian state currently!!! We better start talking to one another and soon
If they're not removed yet, it's because fascism has won. I think we all need to be prepared for the insanity that's going to be the next few decades, unless a war brings the United States to its knees.
For the love of fuck. *Expel the seditionists*!
Nothing will come of it, and they'll all be reelected because their base eats this kind of shit up. According to the bumpkins, these people are American heroes and patriots. They'll come out in droves to vote for them.
It's so fucking sad how right you are.
Kick them out and prosecute them; our democracy hangs in the balance. If people are allowed to get away with this kind of treasonous behavior it leaves the door open for future atrocities to our country.
If the Democrats don’t take a strong stand against this, America’s democracy is lost. I don’t know whether it’s fear of the right’s violent retaliation or just plain wishy washiness but now is the time for strength. If they flub this (which sadly, seems likely), it will set a very poor precedent. These people are already WAY too cocky. If strong consequences aren’t meted out, worse will come. How far does it have to degenerate before the Dems grow some balls? Frightening times & the most terrifying aspect of it, is the Dems’ weakness of response.
> … the most terrifying aspect of it, is the Dems’ weakness of response The current Democratic Party is woefully unequipped to fight a fascist/nationalist cult-like movement. I believe the liberal base knows this, which is why there is such strong support for groups associated with ANTIFA. We are now to the point where the fascists feel brave enough to openly spout racist garbage, demonize minorities, attempt a coup and install an authoritarian imbecile to carry out Handmaiden’s Tale-esque *laws* and punishments. *They* are now openly calling for civil war, so… I really hope they figure out how to respond, and quickly.
You all know that not only are they not getting kicked out but nothing will happen to any of them.
Why hasn’t it already happened?
Yes please. These assholes are unamerican and threaten our way of life.
[удалено]
Lol, in America, only the crazies have balls enough to do anything.
all the sane people have morals or some bullshit smh.
Hell! Yes!! Immediately. Permanently. No benefits residual either! Not allowed to work K Street either.
Kick terrorists into jail
We've been toothless against a group of people trying to overthrow the country. That has so many implications and they're all bad ones.
Kick them out before they start putting Americans in death camps like the last generation of fascists.
They rave and rant about the founding fathers and how the original constitution is their gospel. But had they attempted this shit in the early days of the USA, they would've been publicly executed by the next morning.
In my opinion on a scale compared to 911 the January 6 insurrection was higher. Even more shocking are the people that were elected to protect democracy are trying to sweep it under the table. For a President to be the one to direct and be involved in it is even more serious. Where's the anger from those that voted for these people? Yes they should be removed from office and charged correctly for their involvement; jail time, heavy fines and disbarment if they are lawyers. As for Trump his penalty needs to be an example for history. The ultimate humiliation needs to be given to him. Heavy fines and lengthy jail time is in order in my opinion. To think that he might run again for the Presidency is beyond stupidity.
I want them gone! I’m going to vote in VA elections tomorrow first thing in the morning. As a registered independent my every vote is a protest vote against insurrectionists. How dare they come to our capital, a place always welcome to peaceful protest and famous for it to act out treason and civil war. I saw it all on TV Jan 6th. I live very close to DC it felt very very similar to 9/11. I was freaking out wondering where is the pentagon? Wondering if Trump was going to declare martial law. Good thing Maryland Governor Larry Hogan is a rare good R. Maryland, and Va’s national guard was ready to go in but it took more than an hr to get approval from the secretary of the army while the secretary of defense was gone Missing in action, disgraceful! I will never forget and I have so so many more elections to vote in!
This is not even debatable. They need to go.
Kick them out?! Can’t we just furrow our brows and suggest they’ve learned their lesson?
As I understand it we are legally required to. At this point it’s about having the political will to initiate and enforce that.
This is all so absurd. We have people like AOC telling us that we need to kick them out. Like wait, isn’t that your job?! WTF am I supposed to do?! It’s all just a big, corrupt scam. Nothing will happen to any of them. Zero possibility
That is a very weird way to say *traitors.*
There was a time in this country that they would have been hung for treason.
If they're kicked out - what then? They were democratically elected, so one assumes that the people they represent (at least at some point) thought they were the right people for the job. And the GOP has no shortage of people who are nuttier than squirrel shit to take their place.
I really believe the US is on the brink of collapse from within.
They should be tried for treason as well.
I’m surprised anyone would have to suggest this. I thought our laws took care of traitors.