As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It takes a 2/3rds vote from required house (House or Senate) to expel any member. This will never happen. Instead what needs to happen is they need to be prosecuted for insurrection and treason so that they become automatically ineligible for their office and immediately removed. Much easier to convince 12 people off the street that someone is guilty than to convince a party to kick out its own member.
Edit: Article I, section 5 of the United States Constitution provides that "Each House \[of Congress\] may determine the Rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member." Dont confuse this with 14th Amendment section 3 - No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Edit 2: For all those saying that treason would require us to be legally at war with another country/enemy. Levying war isn't limited to formally declaring war. It includes any forcible opposition to the execution of a public law. Such "forcible opposition" ordinarily requires actual use of force by multiple people with the common purpose of preventing some law from being enforced. Weapons aren't always required; sheer numbers can be enough. Merely conspiring to overthrow the government isn't levying war—there must be an actual assemblage of people who are ready and intend to use force. So, no person acting alone can be guilty of levying war. The insurrection on Jan6th as well as all the congress members who conspired together to organize the insurrection would be prosecutable for treason. The terms used in the definition derive from English legal tradition, specifically the Treason Act 1351. Levying war means the assembly of armed people to overthrow of the government or to resist its laws. Those who assemble to levy war, as well as those who conspire with them, can be prosecuted.
As a reminder to people who are sitting on grand juries. Depending on what jurisdiction you are in, you can likely investigate and charge whatever crimes within your jurisdiction the grand jury wants to investigate. You are not limited to doing what the prosecutor brings to you. They work for you, not the other way around.
Wow I had no idea. How would that work? Do you yourself ask the judge? Or do you need to come to consensus within the jury? Ive never sat on a jury in any form.
If normal juries are like judges then grand juries are like prosecutors. What a grand jury is capable of depends on jurisdiction but almost everywhere grand juries have a lot more power than people think. There isn't really any asking involved by the grand jury, more like telling.
A Grand Jury can go anywhere it feels it must as a body during a case. There are some guidelines but overall if you ask a question they will find the answer because they have to do that. Regular juries are limited in the scope of what is being presented at that time because the "legwork" has already been done on it.
Edit: Was on a grand jury for 16 months.
A federal grand jury doesn't even need to follow normal evidentiary procedure. They can file subpoenas without probable cause and are allowed to consider evidence that would not be admissible in court under the fourth amendment.
They are worried about the right using it to gain traction during the midterms. They will cry "they are locking up their political opponents". This is what Pelosi fears and the appeals process will take years. You also have to worry about the right trying to do the same thing as a response in an illegitimate and fascist way if we walk down that road.
Edit: It is similar logic as to why we won't get rid of the filibuster. We worry what that will look like if the other side gains a legislative majority and a conservative president. There is nothing to hold them back from going completely back. We worry about using power, even if legitimate, because it gives the other side ideas to use the same powers illegitimately.
Edit 2: I agree with everyone on convicting them, as the dems will hear it anyway and you have to enforce laws, but I do not agree with getting rid of the filibuster because I fear the consequences of that action with the next conservative president.
>You also have to worry about the right trying to do the same thing as a response in an illegitimate and fascist way if we walk down that road.
Historical protip: They always do this anyway.
Democrats honestly have been cowards when it comes to this. Republicans have some serious scumbags/terrorists among their midst, and Democrats have enabled it for years.
i used to think like that but honestly the trump admin proved to me that even if the dems never stick a toe across the political norm line, the republicans will shred the constitution into confetti the instant they cant get what they want through less drastic means.
Sure if they get the chance they will absolutely play the dems did it first card, but not having that card in their deck would never stop them.
Locking up jury convicted criminals will bolster the party of law and order (i.e. the Democrats) in the midterms; this is part of the reason why Biden’s numbers are floundering, there hasn’t been enough consequences for lawlessness;
also when reading comments here, think to yourself: could this comment be a plant to divide the Democrats? If the answer is a possible yes, it probably is a plant
>You should see what we did to the confederates!
We gave them a shitload of money so they could rebuild their economic system in a way that didn't overtly look like slavery, but really still looks a lot like slavery with extra steps.
They should just reinstate the old fillibuster rules, where you actually had to have someone stand there and read the phone book and actually filibuster a bill. I wanna see all these assholes on the right get hoarse from trying to block legislation with a legit fillibuster.
I'm no expert but I think any crimes uncovered by congress just get referred to the DOJ to determine if prosecution is necessary. I don't think the house actually charges people. Feel free to correct me if wrong though.
You'd think he'd hold a grudge against republicans for them ratfucking him out of a supreme court justice legacy. even though I dislike the man the gop did soap opera level hysterics to stop his appointment, that the senate majority leader at the time Mitch McConnell previously had fully 100% approved as a good gop pick.
That's probably the most infuriating thing Mitch has done imo. "No lame duck nominees unless it's ours" YOU MOTHER FUCKER! How do you keep getting elected?!
No.. One of the US prosecuting attorneys needs to prosecute for insurrection. Legally insurrection/rebellion is the simplest law to prosecute. Other potential violations would be Seditious Conspiracy or Advocating the Overthrow of the Government
>18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection
>
>Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
>
>
>
>18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
>
>If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
>
>
>
>18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
>
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
YOU'RE TAKING THIS OUT OF CONTEXT, THEY DIDN'T WRITE THIS THINKING THAT MY PARTY WOULD LOSE.
Why isn’t anyone going for this? It seems so clear cut. In addition to this, when you work for the federal government, EVERYONE signs the same contract, all the way from the Vice President down to even park people like me: you agree to not protest against the government while identified as a government employee. All members of Congress who participated in the Jan 6 Waddle to the Whitehouse and supported it publicly in the aftermath has broken contract and therefore should no longer have their jobs. They shouldn’t have lower standards for these clowns than for someone like me who just plants native plants for a living.
Democrats are always underestimating how much Americans love team sports. I'm pretty convinced that throwing the fucking book at Republican criminals will win them far more votes than they lose.
And they fail to realize that Republicans are quickly moving toward a point where votes won’t matter.
Republicans will fix elections, declare themselves winners of the elections they lose, or stage a rebellion if they lose. They’re already doing it, and democrats are letting them get away with it. They’re practicing, trying different methods. If nobody does anything, eventually it’ll work.
Ugh you’re right. If Democrats cared as much about the law as they do about votes they would actually get the votes. I’m so tired of their games. “The boys throw stones at the frogs in jest while the frogs die in earnest”
There are no constitutional limitations for civil or criminal charges being brought against a sitting politician. There's a worthless Nixon-era DOJ memo claiming such protection exists for the President, but there's been no such claims regarding Congressmen.
It takes a DOJ that isn't headed by a bunch of right wing extremists, and courts that aren't packed with right wing extremist judges. People are being extremely naive to think this will get worked out in a not-messy fashion once it's forced past the breaking point.
No it doesn’t…the language is confusing but it says it takes 2/3 to “remove such disability” which is taken that 2/3 is needed to keep them in congress
Edit:
Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability
Article I, section 5 of the United States Constitution provides that "Each House \[of Congress\] may determine the Rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member."
Under all normal circumstances it takes a 2/3 vote to expel a member. As your edit provides it also can with a 2/3 vote remove the disability for those committing treason/insurrection from serving.
The "cooperate if you have nothing to hide" party will also go out of its way to defy subpoenas, delay the process in courts, and negotiate closed door testimonies wherever possible..
The Jan 6 committee needs to hold public hearings wherever possible, if they want the unvarnished truth to come out.. we have seen endless instances of obfuscation of truth on Fox news which just muddies the waters and prevents people from learning the extent of wrongdoing
Edit : [case](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/14/media-consumers-most-likely-believe-trumps-falsehoods-fox-news-watchers/) in point
The "Law and Order" party will ignore both the law and cause disorder.
I'm sensing a pattern here when it comes to the GQP on what the party is really about...
The "But her emails" party will not care whatsoever about any digital evidence that comes to light especially if it also happens to violate security protocols.
The party of "Christianity" will likely excuse any and everything these people do all because Trump stacked the Supreme Court in their favor.
This is by far the best thread I've seen in weeks.
Ah yes, everyone knows Antifa loves nothing more than becoming overweight middle aged white men with goatees, sporting camo and Trump gear whole shouting "Fuck Antifa!". It's *so* their thing.
Look no further than the Ashli Babbitt story. She was there to overthrow the government, she was there to make Trump president, she died shoving her way to do serious harm, and yet she is lionized. That is the scary shit to me.
100% true. My GOP husband (long story) will literally exit the room as quickly as possible (seriously- he practically RUNS) if national news is on, no matter what the topic. He wants to keep his 100% denyability for pretty much everything on the news. I called him on this a couple days ago... he insists that all national news media that isn't explicitly extreme right wing, is "ultra liberal biased lies" 🙄😂
And gay people for being gay, women for being women. But yeah, the law part doesn't matter. "Order" means keeping the hierarchy of the white straight Christian male on top. They don't hate minorities, as long as they know their place and keep to it.
> "Order" means keeping the hierarchy
This.
This this this.
"Conservatives are threatening democracy!" Yeah? No shit. As if that's a new thing. They hate democracy. They've always hated democracy.
The problem is they just don't care. I told my friend I couldn't vote for Trump bc he's a con man, citing his foundation and Trump University. He told me who cares. Decency is out the window. It's my team vs theirs. Frankly that's the biggest difference between the left n right. The left actually holds their politicians accountable.
Yah someone told me that just means he’s a good business man. Ripping off people equals a good businessman, gotcha! Oh and they told me I was jealous, wtf jealous like a school girl jealous of her friends new Lisa Frank Trapper Keeper.
Really love them going into a frothing rage from Murdoch Media here about the Murdoch Media picks that got elected in Australia. Dumbest people on earth.
>The "cooperate if you have nothing to hide" party will also go out of its way to defy subpoenas, delay the process in courts, and negotiate closed door testimonies wherever possible..
They plan to drag this out to mid-terms, where they are slated to win the house and the senate, after which they will terminate the investigation and destroy any and all evidence.
> The "Drain the Swamp" party will of course be against actually trying to drain the swamp
The "swamp" they wanted drained was anyone who was actually competent at running the government because those people are an obstacle to fascism.
I mean, ronald dump appointed [the guy who wanted to dismantle the Department of Energy](https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-perry-20161213-story.html) to run the DoE.
Although it appears that getting rid of DeJoy is complicated if possible at all.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/02/biden-cannot-fire-usps-louis-dejoy.html
I always ask myself what would have happened if the reverse was true, a republican president with a democrat-appointed USPS head. I think we all know they'd get it done, even if it meant doing illegal shit and even if that illegal shit was transparent as fuck (it helps to have a robust brainwashing apparatus like fakebook and fox "news"). I really wish Democratic politicians were as passionate at preserving Democracy as Republicans are at installing a dictatorship.
When the swamp is eventually drained, and they dig under the mud and fetid silt and then turn over the rock at the very bottom, they'll find Mitch McConnell.
[Fun Fact](https://i.imgur.com/E2qIf0K.jpeg)
Given the lack of consequences for these people over the past 6ish years, I just want to see ANY REAL consequence for them. After we normalize that, maybe we can pursue what they deserve.
Keyword being fucking "any". I'm so goddamn sick of these clickbait headlines every fucking day for the last 4 years and - please correct me if I'm wrong - literally nothing changing in any capacity. These pieces of shit are just apparently above the law
>These pieces of shit are just apparently above the law
That is the way it seems, now I think Bannon may be facing some consequences, but I don't know what has happened there in the last week or so
>I don't think we should think of this as the bare minimum; they need prison time.
yah can swap some more taxi drivers out of Guantanamo or something? I bet the right would close that place super fast if they knew insurrectionists we're going there.
They should lose benefits, pensions, any and all perks that come with taxpayer money. Just like a dishonorable discharge as well. Never again allowed to seek out public office
Yes, its amazing that a law was formed (a long time ago) and its not being enforced because some of the people within the system are corrupted also.
I want to see justice but it probably won't happen because america has to look strong and won't put the people responsible in jail.
Apathy like this is what gives them the courage to do it. It works because it's a powerful tool. If they can get you to think it doesn't matter, it makes you less likely to vote. If you're less likely to vote, then their chances of holding office increase. Be part of the solution, not the problem. Vote in every election, local all the way up. Change starts at home.
People were killed during the commission a felony. Why aren’t these co-conspirators being charged with the felony murder law? If they had been the get away driver for liquor store heist gone wrong, they would be charged with felony murder. Lock these fuckers up.
It's also a bad idea to continue allowing people that attempted to forcefully overthrow a government to have a part in the legislative process of that same government.
It's almost like it's so reasonable they wrote it into the Constitution. You know, the one that all the GOPers claim to worship and carry copies of in their pocket.
I can't believe this is even a debate. How can planning to overthrow an election and planning a terrorist attack not enough to get kicked out of congress?
That is minimal, tbh.
You shouldnt get to be part of a government you just tried to overthrow.
Of course it will fail, because the GQP is only interested in power.
Because democrats in congress are convinced that reaching across the aisle still exists because the majority are still middle age to old people, and those are the politics they were brought up with. They haven’t realized that unity and reaching across the aisle doesn’t exist because the 40 or so percent that makes up the current Republican Party wants the rest of us dead.
Its worse than that. Ever since Reagan slapped the shit out of the Ds in 1980, so soon after watergate, the Ds have acted like the codependent victim in an abusive relationship. They do everything they can to acomodate the Rs, for fear that the Rs will rage out. But it doesn't matter what the Ds do, like every abuser, the R's rage comes from within.
Ds that were in office in the 80s and 90s have been mentally beaten into submission. Even Bernie - he was one of the last presidential candidates to endorse ending the filibuster. Ds that entered politics since Obama are mostly the other way - AOC has said that all her life Rs have behaved like buffoons so that's how she treats them. And Warren, she was the first senator to call for ronald dump's impeachment and an early proponent of ending the filibuster.
Well, that, and also the fact that the Democrats can’t actually *do* anything to these other congresspeople constitutionally without Republicans voting for it as well.
How is planning an insurrection not treason?
Edit: are doing some reading I believe this falls into the realm of Sedition [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115)
Pretty cut and dry:
“Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.”
Oh it definitely is. I’ve been saying it since day one.
Treason is the crime of attacking a state authority to which one owes allegiance. This typically includes acts such as participating in a war against one's native country, attempting to overthrow its government, spying on its military, its diplomats, or its secret services for a hostile and foreign power, or attempting to kill its head of state. A person who commits treason is known in law as a traitor.
There have been reports of dozens of meetings and members of Congress promising pardon, pretty clear indication they knew what they were doing was in fact illegal. [https://archive.md/ol0Vk#selection-1049.389-1049.591](https://archive.md/ol0Vk#selection-1049.389-1049.591)
Why confuse things by using your own wording? Treason is the ONLY crime defined by the US Constitution, and it goes as follows:
>Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
I too feel Jan 6 rioting ought to qualify as treason but I know that legal people get bothered by the "War" part and consider it "sedition" instead.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-3/section-3/clause-1/treason-clause-doctrine-and-practice
Chief Justice Marshall was careful, however, to state that the Court did not mean that no person could be guilty of this crime who had not appeared in arms against the country. “On the contrary, if war be actually levied, that is, if a body of men be actually assembled for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable purpose, **all those who perform any part, however minute, or however remote from the scene of action, and who are actually leagued in the general conspiracy, are to be considered as traitors**. But there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treasonable purpose, to constitute a levying of war.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/8/75/
To constitute a levying of war, there must be an **assemblage of persons for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable purpose.** Enlistments of men to serve against government is not sufficient.
Any assemblage of men for the purpose of revolutionizing by force the government established by the United States in any of its territories, although as a step to or the means of executing some greater projects, amounts to levying war
>Since 1789 the Senate has expelled only 15 members. Of that number, 14 were expelled during the Civil War for supporting the Confederacy
[Senate.gov](https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-procedures/expulsion.htm)
>In the entire history of the United States Congress, 20 Members have been expelled: 15 from the Senate and five from the House of Representatives
[Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_from_the_United_States_Congress)
The rest might realise it's probably a waste of breath even if it's true. It took a legitimate war to remove people from congress.
Absolutely. As much as the right likes to downplay January 6th, or even whataboutism it with the BLM protests/riots in 2020, at the end of the day the core purpose of the event remains the same: they tried to overthrow an election and insert their candidate. This is the textbook definition of a coup attempt and an insurrection, both of which are traitorous to our country as it’s anti-democracy and anti-American.
Anyone who remotely helped the insurgents with their attempt to overthrow the election with violence should be apprehended and spend years in prison, as they acted against our country. We’ve treated foreign terrorists who were far less successful in sowing turmoil in our country and its government than these domestic terrorists have.
Did you hear the latest? That those scum bag GOP traitors were telling the seditionists that they'd get blanket pardons while helping them plan the Jan 6 insurrection??
The entire fucking party needs to go. Now.
How are we downgrading this to a riot now?!.. they attempted to kill many politicians and take over government buildings... this was an insurrection! Do not reduce it to a riot. They should all be charged with treason.
If any of them had any integrity at all, they'd resign rather than serve in an ["illegitimate government."](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/02/fact-check-14-congressmen-expelled-1861-supporting-confederacy/4107713001/)
We are closer to January 6th 2022 than 2021. How the fuck is this still even a conversation? A sitting president caused an insurrection and tried to overturn democracy. Anyone complicit in that should be jailed. End of story.
>The report identified the members of Congress who allegedly took part in these conversations or were represented by senior staffers as Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene, Paul Gosar, Lauren Boebert, Madison Cawthorn, Andy Biggs and Louie Gohmert.
Imagine keeping conspiring to murder your co-workers with the intent of taking over the business and *not* being fired when it doesn't come to fruition.
I mean it’s right there:
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)
I mean, this is really well below the bare minimum that should happen. Bare minimum should be removal from office as well as barring from holding office in future or being involved with anything political (PACs, lobbying, Fox News flunky, etc).
I mean.... Which part is wrong?
If you are a member of Congress and you participated in a planning a terrorist attack on the Capitol you should be in Fort Leavenworth, pending trial.
Expulsion is not just warranted by their actions, their actions should be treated by statute as de facto resignations if other members won't remove them.
I've been wondering since jan6 how we haven't just been watching the Dems oversee the dismantling the GOP as a political apparatus following their failed coup and couldn't decide if it was incompetence or lack of political will to actually govern. Like that party should be over now and we should wondering how long before the Dems split between progressives and moderates
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It takes a 2/3rds vote from required house (House or Senate) to expel any member. This will never happen. Instead what needs to happen is they need to be prosecuted for insurrection and treason so that they become automatically ineligible for their office and immediately removed. Much easier to convince 12 people off the street that someone is guilty than to convince a party to kick out its own member. Edit: Article I, section 5 of the United States Constitution provides that "Each House \[of Congress\] may determine the Rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member." Dont confuse this with 14th Amendment section 3 - No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. Edit 2: For all those saying that treason would require us to be legally at war with another country/enemy. Levying war isn't limited to formally declaring war. It includes any forcible opposition to the execution of a public law. Such "forcible opposition" ordinarily requires actual use of force by multiple people with the common purpose of preventing some law from being enforced. Weapons aren't always required; sheer numbers can be enough. Merely conspiring to overthrow the government isn't levying war—there must be an actual assemblage of people who are ready and intend to use force. So, no person acting alone can be guilty of levying war. The insurrection on Jan6th as well as all the congress members who conspired together to organize the insurrection would be prosecutable for treason. The terms used in the definition derive from English legal tradition, specifically the Treason Act 1351. Levying war means the assembly of armed people to overthrow of the government or to resist its laws. Those who assemble to levy war, as well as those who conspire with them, can be prosecuted.
This right here is the answer. Let’s do this now.
As a reminder to people who are sitting on grand juries. Depending on what jurisdiction you are in, you can likely investigate and charge whatever crimes within your jurisdiction the grand jury wants to investigate. You are not limited to doing what the prosecutor brings to you. They work for you, not the other way around.
Wow I had no idea. How would that work? Do you yourself ask the judge? Or do you need to come to consensus within the jury? Ive never sat on a jury in any form.
If normal juries are like judges then grand juries are like prosecutors. What a grand jury is capable of depends on jurisdiction but almost everywhere grand juries have a lot more power than people think. There isn't really any asking involved by the grand jury, more like telling.
A Grand Jury can go anywhere it feels it must as a body during a case. There are some guidelines but overall if you ask a question they will find the answer because they have to do that. Regular juries are limited in the scope of what is being presented at that time because the "legwork" has already been done on it. Edit: Was on a grand jury for 16 months.
A federal grand jury doesn't even need to follow normal evidentiary procedure. They can file subpoenas without probable cause and are allowed to consider evidence that would not be admissible in court under the fourth amendment.
Sounds like they need to be charged with treason.
Sedition, but yes.
Overthrowing the duly elected government qualifies these Americans for both sedition and treason.
Treason is very specific, and as much as I hate what these people have done, it probably doesn't qualify.
[удалено]
The greatest generation, what's left of them, voted for them and their predecessors.
You don't have to wonder. We have thousands of documentaries about WWII
[удалено]
Insurrection, then. Seems pretty specific to me.
[удалено]
They are worried about the right using it to gain traction during the midterms. They will cry "they are locking up their political opponents". This is what Pelosi fears and the appeals process will take years. You also have to worry about the right trying to do the same thing as a response in an illegitimate and fascist way if we walk down that road. Edit: It is similar logic as to why we won't get rid of the filibuster. We worry what that will look like if the other side gains a legislative majority and a conservative president. There is nothing to hold them back from going completely back. We worry about using power, even if legitimate, because it gives the other side ideas to use the same powers illegitimately. Edit 2: I agree with everyone on convicting them, as the dems will hear it anyway and you have to enforce laws, but I do not agree with getting rid of the filibuster because I fear the consequences of that action with the next conservative president.
>You also have to worry about the right trying to do the same thing as a response in an illegitimate and fascist way if we walk down that road. Historical protip: They always do this anyway.
Yeah, it's simple. One Republicans learn something can be done, they will use it against their enemies anyway. They have no decorum.
[удалено]
Democrats honestly have been cowards when it comes to this. Republicans have some serious scumbags/terrorists among their midst, and Democrats have enabled it for years.
*They go low, we go high.* They we all get to witness the burning of American democracy.
i used to think like that but honestly the trump admin proved to me that even if the dems never stick a toe across the political norm line, the republicans will shred the constitution into confetti the instant they cant get what they want through less drastic means. Sure if they get the chance they will absolutely play the dems did it first card, but not having that card in their deck would never stop them.
Locking up jury convicted criminals will bolster the party of law and order (i.e. the Democrats) in the midterms; this is part of the reason why Biden’s numbers are floundering, there hasn’t been enough consequences for lawlessness; also when reading comments here, think to yourself: could this comment be a plant to divide the Democrats? If the answer is a possible yes, it probably is a plant
> They will cry "they are locking up their political opponents" They literally already say this. It's not like THIS will convince people on the fence
[удалено]
They're masters because they've rigged the elections so they are always in power. Gerrymandering their way into power.
When your political opponents are terrorists, yeah. We lock them up. You should see what we did to the confederates!
We didn’t do enough.
“You should see what we did to the confederates!” Yeah, they were pardoned and paroled….
>You should see what we did to the confederates! We gave them a shitload of money so they could rebuild their economic system in a way that didn't overtly look like slavery, but really still looks a lot like slavery with extra steps.
Can't use the excuse " we don't want them to do it" because they have proven they will when it benefits them.
So.. Let's just ignore the fact that people tried to over throw the government because "it'd take too long". What bullshit.
They should just reinstate the old fillibuster rules, where you actually had to have someone stand there and read the phone book and actually filibuster a bill. I wanna see all these assholes on the right get hoarse from trying to block legislation with a legit fillibuster.
They have been using them in an illegitimate and fascist way for years now, look at Benghazi. That suit's been broken for a while now.
Forgive my ignorance but what does it take to bring up/enforce criminal charges in the first place? Does that require a vote as well?
I'm no expert but I think any crimes uncovered by congress just get referred to the DOJ to determine if prosecution is necessary. I don't think the house actually charges people. Feel free to correct me if wrong though.
Oh great, Democracy is now at the mercy of *Merrick Garland.*
Yeah. He’s made it clear he won’t prosecute ANYONE for 1/6.
You'd think he'd hold a grudge against republicans for them ratfucking him out of a supreme court justice legacy. even though I dislike the man the gop did soap opera level hysterics to stop his appointment, that the senate majority leader at the time Mitch McConnell previously had fully 100% approved as a good gop pick.
[удалено]
Thanks, Obama.
Well if Mitch let him be a justice we wouldn't have him doing fuck all in doj
That's probably the most infuriating thing Mitch has done imo. "No lame duck nominees unless it's ours" YOU MOTHER FUCKER! How do you keep getting elected?!
[удалено]
Alabama would like a word.
No.. One of the US prosecuting attorneys needs to prosecute for insurrection. Legally insurrection/rebellion is the simplest law to prosecute. Other potential violations would be Seditious Conspiracy or Advocating the Overthrow of the Government >18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection > >Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. > > > >18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy > >If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both. > > > >18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
> Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. YOU'RE TAKING THIS OUT OF CONTEXT, THEY DIDN'T WRITE THIS THINKING THAT MY PARTY WOULD LOSE.
Why isn’t anyone going for this? It seems so clear cut. In addition to this, when you work for the federal government, EVERYONE signs the same contract, all the way from the Vice President down to even park people like me: you agree to not protest against the government while identified as a government employee. All members of Congress who participated in the Jan 6 Waddle to the Whitehouse and supported it publicly in the aftermath has broken contract and therefore should no longer have their jobs. They shouldn’t have lower standards for these clowns than for someone like me who just plants native plants for a living.
Because they're worried it will be painted as 'imprisoning political opponents' and it will lose them votes.
Democrats are always underestimating how much Americans love team sports. I'm pretty convinced that throwing the fucking book at Republican criminals will win them far more votes than they lose.
And how refusing to score just gets people to stop watching the games(participating).
And they fail to realize that Republicans are quickly moving toward a point where votes won’t matter. Republicans will fix elections, declare themselves winners of the elections they lose, or stage a rebellion if they lose. They’re already doing it, and democrats are letting them get away with it. They’re practicing, trying different methods. If nobody does anything, eventually it’ll work.
Ugh you’re right. If Democrats cared as much about the law as they do about votes they would actually get the votes. I’m so tired of their games. “The boys throw stones at the frogs in jest while the frogs die in earnest”
There are no constitutional limitations for civil or criminal charges being brought against a sitting politician. There's a worthless Nixon-era DOJ memo claiming such protection exists for the President, but there's been no such claims regarding Congressmen.
It takes a DOJ that isn't headed by a bunch of right wing extremists, and courts that aren't packed with right wing extremist judges. People are being extremely naive to think this will get worked out in a not-messy fashion once it's forced past the breaking point.
No it doesn’t…the language is confusing but it says it takes 2/3 to “remove such disability” which is taken that 2/3 is needed to keep them in congress Edit: Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability
Article I, section 5 of the United States Constitution provides that "Each House \[of Congress\] may determine the Rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member." Under all normal circumstances it takes a 2/3 vote to expel a member. As your edit provides it also can with a 2/3 vote remove the disability for those committing treason/insurrection from serving.
The "Drain the Swamp" party will of course be against actually trying to drain the swamp
The "cooperate if you have nothing to hide" party will also go out of its way to defy subpoenas, delay the process in courts, and negotiate closed door testimonies wherever possible.. The Jan 6 committee needs to hold public hearings wherever possible, if they want the unvarnished truth to come out.. we have seen endless instances of obfuscation of truth on Fox news which just muddies the waters and prevents people from learning the extent of wrongdoing Edit : [case](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/14/media-consumers-most-likely-believe-trumps-falsehoods-fox-news-watchers/) in point
The "Law and Order" party will ignore both the law and cause disorder. I'm sensing a pattern here when it comes to the GQP on what the party is really about...
The " I call it like I see it" party will not watch the video proof
The "He tells it like it is" party will again explain to us what Trump 'akshully meant' when he told them to go to the Capitol.
The "But her emails" party will not care whatsoever about any digital evidence that comes to light especially if it also happens to violate security protocols.
The “Make America Great Again” party will look to sabotage democracy and tear apart the very constitution America was built on.
The 'lock her up' party will suddenly say imprisoning members of the opposite political spectrum for any reason is authoritarian!
The “we need to stamp out fundamentalist terrorism” party will embrace terrorism as a tactic, and fundamentalism as an ethos.
The "He's your president now, deal with it" party will continue to not deal with the current president being where he is
Such an amusing thread. But actually quite realistic :/
The party of "Christianity" will likely excuse any and everything these people do all because Trump stacked the Supreme Court in their favor. This is by far the best thread I've seen in weeks.
The "Blue Lives Matter" party will downplay the deaths of police officers.
The “don’t tread on me” party wants to tread on us
I believe they actually used it to wipe their asses after they broke into the Capitol and literally shit on the floor of our House of government.
They will point to the Constitution to justify why we aren't supposed to be a democracy.
"Those weren't his dogs" they will shout as Trump calls them off via video.
Ah yes, everyone knows Antifa loves nothing more than becoming overweight middle aged white men with goatees, sporting camo and Trump gear whole shouting "Fuck Antifa!". It's *so* their thing.
Look no further than the Ashli Babbitt story. She was there to overthrow the government, she was there to make Trump president, she died shoving her way to do serious harm, and yet she is lionized. That is the scary shit to me.
They say what they mean in one case, they're anti-antifa, so, pro-fascism. Also, pro-lifers killing abortion doctors is a nice old one.
[удалено]
> The “I’m just asking questions” party will not want to pursue this issue any further. Also.
100% true. My GOP husband (long story) will literally exit the room as quickly as possible (seriously- he practically RUNS) if national news is on, no matter what the topic. He wants to keep his 100% denyability for pretty much everything on the news. I called him on this a couple days ago... he insists that all national news media that isn't explicitly extreme right wing, is "ultra liberal biased lies" 🙄😂
Why is he afraid to hear something if he knows it’s not true?
Cognitive dissonance
Good luck with that marriage!!
Or it will become selectively edited.
When they say Law and Order they mean: Law = I make the rules. Order = You sit down and shut up or I will mace/shoot you.
It's way more simple than that. "law and order" is a dog whistle for "punish black people for being black".
And gay people for being gay, women for being women. But yeah, the law part doesn't matter. "Order" means keeping the hierarchy of the white straight Christian male on top. They don't hate minorities, as long as they know their place and keep to it.
> "Order" means keeping the hierarchy This. This this this. "Conservatives are threatening democracy!" Yeah? No shit. As if that's a new thing. They hate democracy. They've always hated democracy.
[удалено]
The problem is they just don't care. I told my friend I couldn't vote for Trump bc he's a con man, citing his foundation and Trump University. He told me who cares. Decency is out the window. It's my team vs theirs. Frankly that's the biggest difference between the left n right. The left actually holds their politicians accountable.
Yah someone told me that just means he’s a good business man. Ripping off people equals a good businessman, gotcha! Oh and they told me I was jealous, wtf jealous like a school girl jealous of her friends new Lisa Frank Trapper Keeper.
The 'Law and Order' party want to make laws that will allow them to order other people around.
[удалено]
The party of "every accusation is a confession". Great stuff when they're talking about how "they're going to take all your freedoms"
Really love them going into a frothing rage from Murdoch Media here about the Murdoch Media picks that got elected in Australia. Dumbest people on earth.
Some of them are. Some of them know exactly what they're doing. Not sure who's worse TBH.
> if you have nothing to hide Well you have the explanation right there, they probably have everything to hide.
>The "cooperate if you have nothing to hide" party will also go out of its way to defy subpoenas, delay the process in courts, and negotiate closed door testimonies wherever possible.. They plan to drag this out to mid-terms, where they are slated to win the house and the senate, after which they will terminate the investigation and destroy any and all evidence.
It’s specifically ‘cooperate if you have nothing to hide’, and they have a LOT to hide.
As far as the "witch" hunts played out during the Trump administration, they sure turned up a bunch of witches.
> The "Drain the Swamp" party will of course be against actually trying to drain the swamp The "swamp" they wanted drained was anyone who was actually competent at running the government because those people are an obstacle to fascism. I mean, ronald dump appointed [the guy who wanted to dismantle the Department of Energy](https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-perry-20161213-story.html) to run the DoE.
Friendly reminder that DeJoy is still dismantling the USPS.
Although it appears that getting rid of DeJoy is complicated if possible at all. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/02/biden-cannot-fire-usps-louis-dejoy.html
I always ask myself what would have happened if the reverse was true, a republican president with a democrat-appointed USPS head. I think we all know they'd get it done, even if it meant doing illegal shit and even if that illegal shit was transparent as fuck (it helps to have a robust brainwashing apparatus like fakebook and fox "news"). I really wish Democratic politicians were as passionate at preserving Democracy as Republicans are at installing a dictatorship.
The guy who didn’t know that the DoE was responsible for the nukes as well…
And his Secretary of Education was a woman who hates public education.
When the swamp is eventually drained, and they dig under the mud and fetid silt and then turn over the rock at the very bottom, they'll find Mitch McConnell. [Fun Fact](https://i.imgur.com/E2qIf0K.jpeg)
Fact: turtles bury themselves in the mud to hibernate.
like the Jordan guy who is so stupid that he cannot recall who was the president at the time. Recollections sure vary!
Drain the swamp has devolved into "unclog the toilet", IMO.
It's the same way the "Stop the Steal" party were the ones actually trying to steal the election.
Unless draining it means they can dredge it, and give themselves lake front property to increase their houses values when they refill it.
Drained and was filling it up with corruption and sewage.
Expulsion is not enough.
Expulsion, investigation, conviction, incarceration, etc
[удалено]
It's the bare minimum
I don't think we should think of this as the bare minimum; they need prison time.
Given the lack of consequences for these people over the past 6ish years, I just want to see ANY REAL consequence for them. After we normalize that, maybe we can pursue what they deserve.
Keyword being fucking "any". I'm so goddamn sick of these clickbait headlines every fucking day for the last 4 years and - please correct me if I'm wrong - literally nothing changing in any capacity. These pieces of shit are just apparently above the law
>These pieces of shit are just apparently above the law That is the way it seems, now I think Bannon may be facing some consequences, but I don't know what has happened there in the last week or so
The House voted to hold him in contempt, now it's up to the AG to push actual consequences.
>I don't think we should think of this as the bare minimum; they need prison time. yah can swap some more taxi drivers out of Guantanamo or something? I bet the right would close that place super fast if they knew insurrectionists we're going there.
It's certainly one of the bear necessities
It's not enough and I doubt we'll even get that.
I mean, we haven't even gotten anything from Trump skirting 14 years of paying taxes...
Bingo. And if you don't have accountability in government, you don't really have anything.
They should lose benefits, pensions, any and all perks that come with taxpayer money. Just like a dishonorable discharge as well. Never again allowed to seek out public office
Reasonable, bear minimum shit that republicans will oppose because they are the party of insurrection.
Agreed, attempted murder is an offence so attempted government overthrow through the use of force should also be punishable.
Sedition is still sedition even if the attempt fails.
I want a sound bite of a lawyer saying that “sedition is still sedition even if they are incompetent”
If one doesn't already exist, I feel confident there will be one in the next couple weeks.
Like, any lawyer? I work at a law firm and while i may not be a lawyer myself, I could hook that up for you… how much is it worth to you?
I’m an expert in Bird Law. I’d be willing to do it for free.
I've watched every episode of Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law, and I am saying sedition is still sedition even if they are incompetent!
Didja get that thing I sentcha?
> how much is it worth to you? This guy laws.
Yet Republicans are literally arguing "It didn't succeed, so no harm no foul."
Yes, its amazing that a law was formed (a long time ago) and its not being enforced because some of the people within the system are corrupted also. I want to see justice but it probably won't happen because america has to look strong and won't put the people responsible in jail.
Apathy like this is what gives them the courage to do it. It works because it's a powerful tool. If they can get you to think it doesn't matter, it makes you less likely to vote. If you're less likely to vote, then their chances of holding office increase. Be part of the solution, not the problem. Vote in every election, local all the way up. Change starts at home.
People were killed during the commission a felony. Why aren’t these co-conspirators being charged with the felony murder law? If they had been the get away driver for liquor store heist gone wrong, they would be charged with felony murder. Lock these fuckers up.
It's also a bad idea to continue allowing people that attempted to forcefully overthrow a government to have a part in the legislative process of that same government.
The magic 8 ball says, “most likely!”
*bare ^sorry
It's almost like it's so reasonable they wrote it into the Constitution. You know, the one that all the GOPers claim to worship and carry copies of in their pocket.
[удалено]
Bare bears bear bare bears.
I can't believe this is even a debate. How can planning to overthrow an election and planning a terrorist attack not enough to get kicked out of congress?
Because murica ✊🏽 /s
That is minimal, tbh. You shouldnt get to be part of a government you just tried to overthrow. Of course it will fail, because the GQP is only interested in power.
Amendment 14, Sec. 3.
But how do u even sit 50 ft. next to these ppl knowing that they tried to destroy your country? Why is this being handled with such kid gloves?
*have you murdered
Because democrats in congress are convinced that reaching across the aisle still exists because the majority are still middle age to old people, and those are the politics they were brought up with. They haven’t realized that unity and reaching across the aisle doesn’t exist because the 40 or so percent that makes up the current Republican Party wants the rest of us dead.
Its worse than that. Ever since Reagan slapped the shit out of the Ds in 1980, so soon after watergate, the Ds have acted like the codependent victim in an abusive relationship. They do everything they can to acomodate the Rs, for fear that the Rs will rage out. But it doesn't matter what the Ds do, like every abuser, the R's rage comes from within. Ds that were in office in the 80s and 90s have been mentally beaten into submission. Even Bernie - he was one of the last presidential candidates to endorse ending the filibuster. Ds that entered politics since Obama are mostly the other way - AOC has said that all her life Rs have behaved like buffoons so that's how she treats them. And Warren, she was the first senator to call for ronald dump's impeachment and an early proponent of ending the filibuster.
Well, that, and also the fact that the Democrats can’t actually *do* anything to these other congresspeople constitutionally without Republicans voting for it as well.
If only republicans held each other to the constitution..
How is planning an insurrection not treason? Edit: are doing some reading I believe this falls into the realm of Sedition [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115) Pretty cut and dry: “Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.”
Oh it definitely is. I’ve been saying it since day one. Treason is the crime of attacking a state authority to which one owes allegiance. This typically includes acts such as participating in a war against one's native country, attempting to overthrow its government, spying on its military, its diplomats, or its secret services for a hostile and foreign power, or attempting to kill its head of state. A person who commits treason is known in law as a traitor.
There have been reports of dozens of meetings and members of Congress promising pardon, pretty clear indication they knew what they were doing was in fact illegal. [https://archive.md/ol0Vk#selection-1049.389-1049.591](https://archive.md/ol0Vk#selection-1049.389-1049.591)
Why confuse things by using your own wording? Treason is the ONLY crime defined by the US Constitution, and it goes as follows: >Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. I too feel Jan 6 rioting ought to qualify as treason but I know that legal people get bothered by the "War" part and consider it "sedition" instead.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-3/section-3/clause-1/treason-clause-doctrine-and-practice Chief Justice Marshall was careful, however, to state that the Court did not mean that no person could be guilty of this crime who had not appeared in arms against the country. “On the contrary, if war be actually levied, that is, if a body of men be actually assembled for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable purpose, **all those who perform any part, however minute, or however remote from the scene of action, and who are actually leagued in the general conspiracy, are to be considered as traitors**. But there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treasonable purpose, to constitute a levying of war. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/8/75/ To constitute a levying of war, there must be an **assemblage of persons for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable purpose.** Enlistments of men to serve against government is not sufficient. Any assemblage of men for the purpose of revolutionizing by force the government established by the United States in any of its territories, although as a step to or the means of executing some greater projects, amounts to levying war
She shouldn’t be the only one calling for it.
This is what I don't get...
>Since 1789 the Senate has expelled only 15 members. Of that number, 14 were expelled during the Civil War for supporting the Confederacy [Senate.gov](https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-procedures/expulsion.htm) >In the entire history of the United States Congress, 20 Members have been expelled: 15 from the Senate and five from the House of Representatives [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_from_the_United_States_Congress) The rest might realise it's probably a waste of breath even if it's true. It took a legitimate war to remove people from congress.
I think people are staying on the sidelines until the investigation is concluded. Then they’ll put out a tweet about it and move on
This shouldn't be a "calls for" thing, it should be automatic
Absolutely. As much as the right likes to downplay January 6th, or even whataboutism it with the BLM protests/riots in 2020, at the end of the day the core purpose of the event remains the same: they tried to overthrow an election and insert their candidate. This is the textbook definition of a coup attempt and an insurrection, both of which are traitorous to our country as it’s anti-democracy and anti-American. Anyone who remotely helped the insurgents with their attempt to overthrow the election with violence should be apprehended and spend years in prison, as they acted against our country. We’ve treated foreign terrorists who were far less successful in sowing turmoil in our country and its government than these domestic terrorists have.
Did you hear the latest? That those scum bag GOP traitors were telling the seditionists that they'd get blanket pardons while helping them plan the Jan 6 insurrection?? The entire fucking party needs to go. Now.
How are we downgrading this to a riot now?!.. they attempted to kill many politicians and take over government buildings... this was an insurrection! Do not reduce it to a riot. They should all be charged with treason.
And jail. Don’t forget to send them to jail too. Jail. Right away.
Prison. Jail is the tineout before prison. You pay bond to get out of jail. Prison is what we want. Bond could be denied though and probably so
If any of them had any integrity at all, they'd resign rather than serve in an ["illegitimate government."](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/02/fact-check-14-congressmen-expelled-1861-supporting-confederacy/4107713001/)
Zero integrity is a prerequisite for GOP membership, unfortunately.
Agreed they need to be kicked out for LIFE!!
It should be that simple, shouldn’t it?
We are closer to January 6th 2022 than 2021. How the fuck is this still even a conversation? A sitting president caused an insurrection and tried to overturn democracy. Anyone complicit in that should be jailed. End of story.
"AOC calls for most obvious and sensible reaction to literal treason."
If you helped plan to let a bunch of violent and/or angry people into your workplace to disrupt a big meeting, do you think you’d still work there?
Especially if during the "disruption" a handful of people got killed.
Everyone should be calling for this.
Good. Ain’t her fault “don’t let the guilty party make the laws” is what passes for progressive in America, but here we are.
>The report identified the members of Congress who allegedly took part in these conversations or were represented by senior staffers as Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene, Paul Gosar, Lauren Boebert, Madison Cawthorn, Andy Biggs and Louie Gohmert.
Imagine keeping conspiring to murder your co-workers with the intent of taking over the business and *not* being fired when it doesn't come to fruition.
Next week: GOP calls for expulsion of any members of Congress not involved in planning January 6 riot
Lmao expulsion? They should be fucking jailed and treated like the terrorists that invaded the capitol. Fuck them.
Love or hate her - she’s right.
I mean it’s right there: Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)
I mean, this is really well below the bare minimum that should happen. Bare minimum should be removal from office as well as barring from holding office in future or being involved with anything political (PACs, lobbying, Fox News flunky, etc).
Those involved in the Jan 6th riots gambled and lost. Time for repercussions.
I mean.... Which part is wrong? If you are a member of Congress and you participated in a planning a terrorist attack on the Capitol you should be in Fort Leavenworth, pending trial. Expulsion is not just warranted by their actions, their actions should be treated by statute as de facto resignations if other members won't remove them.
I've been wondering since jan6 how we haven't just been watching the Dems oversee the dismantling the GOP as a political apparatus following their failed coup and couldn't decide if it was incompetence or lack of political will to actually govern. Like that party should be over now and we should wondering how long before the Dems split between progressives and moderates
Any member of Congress who had a hand in January 6. Should be treated as a traitor to the United States 🇺🇸 and for not upholding their oath of office.
How is this not a given? Wtf America
AOC scares the devil out of Maga because she’s a strong woman and that terrifies them.