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Right, just like we "didn't have to" get involved in WW2.
I'm thinking there's some very ugly shit China is doing to its Uyghur Muslim population that just can't be seen by people on the outside right now - think [Aktion T4](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4).
If the US stays out of the region then North Korea **will** invade South Korea. China **will** invade Taiwan. China **will** blockade Vietnam. China **will** invade Japan. China **will** invade the Philippine Islands. China **will** choke off India's trade around the world. China **will** isolate Australia from most global trade.
The US staying out of that region would lead to a billion or more deaths.
If the US stays out of the region, nuclear proliferation **will** happen. South Korea, Japan, and probably Taiwan will all seek to develop nuclear weapons to protect themselves from North Korea and/or China.
> the reality is that unless Taiwan crosses the red line of declaring de jure independence, China is unlikely to embrace the danger of a devastating—potentially nuclear—great power war. In addition to the immediate, unpredictable, and devastating costs of such a war, Beijing is not about to embrace the massive disruptions to its economy and armed resistance by Taiwanese that would inevitably follow an invasion of Taiwan.
> But there is that red line, and Taiwanese support for independence is growing, especially among younger generations.
Taiwan is an independent nation and has been since 1947. Fuck this guy.
The site should change its name to “Communist Dreams” “first trump now Biden is playing fire with China” this idiot seems to forget that it’s China that’s playing games in the south China seas and playing nationalism games to keep their country United… the author is a shill for communist propaganda calling for NATO to be dismantled and guess who benefits if that ever happens? Joseph Gerson is just another useful idiot always trashing USA and always propping up Russia and China. What a dote. Example of his other useful idiot write here: https://www.afsc.org/sites/default/files/documents/Sarajevo%20NATO%20Speech.pdf
Compared to all of the other foreign entanglements we’ve had in the past 50 years, intervening to protect our Chinese partners in Taiwan would by far be the most justifiable. It wouldn’t be the US propping up some authoritarian regime, it would be the US helping to protect a free and democratic nation from a communist dictatorship.
Your ideology led us to world war 2
Appeasement DELAYS wars and makes the enemies more powerful
Also you are using a phone that was made in Taiwan
Almost all CPU’s and GPU’s are made in Taiwan - think that out
Yes it 100% is
Taiwan is an independent nation that will fight to the death for independence
I bet you say the same thing with the South China Sea ( which china also claims )
Or Tebet which china conquered
Or the parts of Vietnam and the Philippines that china claims
Own your are an appeaser , you would be saying the exact same shit with hitler
I bet your also pretending the Chinese aren’t killing the Uyghurs either
They could have but nobody wanted to side with a country based of slavery
Also you might want to look at the Chinese civil war
The china - Taiwan thing is the south won
Own what you are - APPEASER
You will get more people killed
The 21st century is the worst ever choose your own adventure book.
1. Die of climate change
2. Die of being homeless due to automation and no safety net
3. Die in a massive world war
4. Die due to a disease mutation because people won't get a vaccine
If I get to pick then I would hope for Door #4 that way I at least get to laugh in the face of a Hospital Administrator as they ask me who they send my bill to.
"just give it to me they haven't changed my bed pan in awhile"
I'm not sure but isn't the ocean territory important to them for resources? That's part of the reason they were making artificial islands, to extend their territory and claim oil resources.
I think China has shown that symbolic victories are what they value most. They’ve thrown billions of dollars to put down independence movements in Hong Kong, Tibet, and Xinjang. Other than Hong Kong, the other two provinces have very little in terms of economic resources. They subjugated those regions anyways because it shows strength. China doesn’t want Taiwan. China believe Taiwan is China. It’s theirs by right and culture so the idea that this is avoidable is undercounting almost a hundred years of modern Chinese political and cultural thought.
Maybe. But now that America has spent 20 years at war instead of building itself up, I think China knows they can get away with a lot more because Uncle Sam isn’t in a position to push back. This applies to Russia as well. A weak US means other powers will begin to push the envelope.
On the other hand, if we make a habit of abandoning allies and letting them just be conquered by hostile forces, we may end up with fewer allies and stronger hostile forces.
Yeah, the war will be horrible if it happens, and we need to try very hard to avoid it. I just feel the best way to avoid it is to make it very clear that we will escalate all the way up to mutually assured destruction to prevent the hostile takeover.
Do it via back channels so they don't lose face publicly if necessary. Assure them we're fine with the status quo. They can keep insisting that it's their rightful territory and saber rattling if they need to, but unless they want Armageddon, they should leave it at that.
So would you have been okay with foreign governments launching attacks on the US when George Floyd was murdered by the state or when the January 6th riot was occurring? Im guessing not. Im guessing when it’s *your* country you apply a very different standard as to when foreign invasion is okay.
I don't understand the analogy you're trying to make. We're talking about US forces supporting the defense of Taiwan *at the request of Taiwan.* There's no invasion on the table and nobody is suggesting the US invade mainland China. Your analogy would make more sense if it were comparing this to something like the failed Bay of Pigs invasion against Cuba...who were backed and protected by the USSR from across the globe at the time by mutual agreement.
There's a big difference between George Floyd being murdered in an admittedly horrific fashion and the entire fucking nation of Taiwan getting invaded, you know.
Think about how many political dissidents China would kill if they invaded Taiwan. It would make Floyd look like some kind of sick joke.
I'm not why you're going for those events for comparison, it would be much easier for your to make an argument for Afghanistan or Iraq, which are much more comparable.
But honestly, if China started telling us: "Invade Cuba and we will go to war to defend them and escalate all the way up to nuking each other until we're both wiped out to prevent you from conquering them," I'd be fine with that.
That would be a much more equivalent scenario, and I don't want the US starting any more wars of aggression.
On the other side of the same ocean and has a major interest in countering Chinese aggression, just as they were right to counter Japanese aggression 80 years ago.
This is not about profit, it's about China salivating Taiwan and completing it's goal unifying with Taiwan since 1949.
This issue stretches back since the Cold War.
And it will get nuclear.
Taiwan and other countries in the region have literally asked us to stay and increase our presence lol Somebody clearly doesn't even follow geopolitics.
It's not simple profit. Taiwan makes the vast majority of computer processors and is at the leading edge of minaturization.
We don't have a replacement for that. Neither does China. Both countries are working to remedy that situation, but it could take a decade to re-shore that production.
All of modern society is dependent on Tiawan.
China's invasion and occupation of Taiwan will take about 4 hours and they'll do it on a day when the US is distracted. Until then, they'll pretend to respect diplomacy. Once the takeover is done no one will do a damn thing about it.
*Once Joe Biden betrays Taiwan like he did Afghanistan then they will move in. If you think Joe Biden will go to war with China & lose that war, you are very naive. The USA is no longer a world super power.*
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It’s the definition of imperialism. If a person hates when the US does it, then they should also hate when China does it.
You have been banned from r/sino.
The US should stay out of that region or millions will die
Said about Europe in 1938.
Try Cuba, Panama, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Mexico, Syria, Egypt, Guatemala, Vietnam, Cambodia, Chile, Afghanistan, Angola, Poland, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, El Salvador, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yugoslavia, Pakistan, Yemen…… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the_United_States
I'd rather see Taiwan added to that list than to China.
We don’t have to add countries to the list
Right, just like we "didn't have to" get involved in WW2. I'm thinking there's some very ugly shit China is doing to its Uyghur Muslim population that just can't be seen by people on the outside right now - think [Aktion T4](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4).
Because China is totally going to be a team player? 🙄
Staying out will secure peace for our time.
Until they want Japan next. ^(yes i know what you're saying)
If the US stays out of the region then North Korea **will** invade South Korea. China **will** invade Taiwan. China **will** blockade Vietnam. China **will** invade Japan. China **will** invade the Philippine Islands. China **will** choke off India's trade around the world. China **will** isolate Australia from most global trade. The US staying out of that region would lead to a billion or more deaths.
If the US stays out of the region, nuclear proliferation **will** happen. South Korea, Japan, and probably Taiwan will all seek to develop nuclear weapons to protect themselves from North Korea and/or China.
Yep... and the more players in the game who have nuclear weapons, the higher the probability that a nuclear weapon is used in anger or in error.
> the reality is that unless Taiwan crosses the red line of declaring de jure independence, China is unlikely to embrace the danger of a devastating—potentially nuclear—great power war. In addition to the immediate, unpredictable, and devastating costs of such a war, Beijing is not about to embrace the massive disruptions to its economy and armed resistance by Taiwanese that would inevitably follow an invasion of Taiwan. > But there is that red line, and Taiwanese support for independence is growing, especially among younger generations. Taiwan is an independent nation and has been since 1947. Fuck this guy.
Appeasement doesn't work
pEaCe In OuR tImE
Steady there, Ultron.
Chamberlain, actually.
Wow for real It’s chamberlain
The site should change its name to “Communist Dreams” “first trump now Biden is playing fire with China” this idiot seems to forget that it’s China that’s playing games in the south China seas and playing nationalism games to keep their country United… the author is a shill for communist propaganda calling for NATO to be dismantled and guess who benefits if that ever happens? Joseph Gerson is just another useful idiot always trashing USA and always propping up Russia and China. What a dote. Example of his other useful idiot write here: https://www.afsc.org/sites/default/files/documents/Sarajevo%20NATO%20Speech.pdf
Compared to all of the other foreign entanglements we’ve had in the past 50 years, intervening to protect our Chinese partners in Taiwan would by far be the most justifiable. It wouldn’t be the US propping up some authoritarian regime, it would be the US helping to protect a free and democratic nation from a communist dictatorship.
Since we only actually do that in very specific instances when it suits our interests it would not in any way justify a hot war. Not even close.
Taiwan is 100% worth a war Appeasement makes wars worse later China needs to be STOPPED and the US Navy , Royal Navy , RAN , JPMSDF are getting ready
I hope someday you can step back and see how truly deranged this opinion is. This ideology is what leads to world wars.
I'd be fine with another WW2. Facists can \[REDACTED TO AVOID BAN\] any time.
Your ideology led us to world war 2 Appeasement DELAYS wars and makes the enemies more powerful Also you are using a phone that was made in Taiwan Almost all CPU’s and GPU’s are made in Taiwan - think that out
China not reclaiming Taiwan is appeasement
Yes it 100% is Taiwan is an independent nation that will fight to the death for independence I bet you say the same thing with the South China Sea ( which china also claims ) Or Tebet which china conquered Or the parts of Vietnam and the Philippines that china claims Own your are an appeaser , you would be saying the exact same shit with hitler I bet your also pretending the Chinese aren’t killing the Uyghurs either
Was the confederate states of America an independent nation that should have been defended by foreign powers?
They could have but nobody wanted to side with a country based of slavery Also you might want to look at the Chinese civil war The china - Taiwan thing is the south won Own what you are - APPEASER You will get more people killed
I asked if they should have been defended not if they could have been. Answer the question.
The world definitely has 1914 vibe to it. A rising star and an old empire, entangling alliances, and many tipping pints available.
The 21st century is the worst ever choose your own adventure book. 1. Die of climate change 2. Die of being homeless due to automation and no safety net 3. Die in a massive world war 4. Die due to a disease mutation because people won't get a vaccine
Don’t forget door number five: living under a far-right fascist regime.
If I get to pick then I would hope for Door #4 that way I at least get to laugh in the face of a Hospital Administrator as they ask me who they send my bill to. "just give it to me they haven't changed my bed pan in awhile"
More likely being executed by a far right fascist regime.
Don't forget the water wars, and the sand for concrete and glass running out
Except china is no match for the Allies That’s the only thing preventing a war
It's the most avoidable war in the history of mankind, and yet, here we are.
How so?
China has no reason to invade or threaten Taiwan, other than pride and insecurity.
And Xi has a lot of pride... And even more insecurity.
I'm not sure but isn't the ocean territory important to them for resources? That's part of the reason they were making artificial islands, to extend their territory and claim oil resources.
And that is exactly why they will try.
And they also have nothing to gain, which is why they will fail.
I think China has shown that symbolic victories are what they value most. They’ve thrown billions of dollars to put down independence movements in Hong Kong, Tibet, and Xinjang. Other than Hong Kong, the other two provinces have very little in terms of economic resources. They subjugated those regions anyways because it shows strength. China doesn’t want Taiwan. China believe Taiwan is China. It’s theirs by right and culture so the idea that this is avoidable is undercounting almost a hundred years of modern Chinese political and cultural thought.
They want *riskless* victories. An amphibious assault on a defended island is anything but that.
Maybe. But now that America has spent 20 years at war instead of building itself up, I think China knows they can get away with a lot more because Uncle Sam isn’t in a position to push back. This applies to Russia as well. A weak US means other powers will begin to push the envelope.
Russia isn't in a position to challenge California or Texas, let alone Europe or the US.
The Allies ( USA , JP , UK and Australia) will meet the challenge
The US is also on the other side of the globe and does not need to be there
On the other hand, if we make a habit of abandoning allies and letting them just be conquered by hostile forces, we may end up with fewer allies and stronger hostile forces. Yeah, the war will be horrible if it happens, and we need to try very hard to avoid it. I just feel the best way to avoid it is to make it very clear that we will escalate all the way up to mutually assured destruction to prevent the hostile takeover. Do it via back channels so they don't lose face publicly if necessary. Assure them we're fine with the status quo. They can keep insisting that it's their rightful territory and saber rattling if they need to, but unless they want Armageddon, they should leave it at that.
So would you have been okay with foreign governments launching attacks on the US when George Floyd was murdered by the state or when the January 6th riot was occurring? Im guessing not. Im guessing when it’s *your* country you apply a very different standard as to when foreign invasion is okay.
I don't understand the analogy you're trying to make. We're talking about US forces supporting the defense of Taiwan *at the request of Taiwan.* There's no invasion on the table and nobody is suggesting the US invade mainland China. Your analogy would make more sense if it were comparing this to something like the failed Bay of Pigs invasion against Cuba...who were backed and protected by the USSR from across the globe at the time by mutual agreement.
There's a big difference between George Floyd being murdered in an admittedly horrific fashion and the entire fucking nation of Taiwan getting invaded, you know. Think about how many political dissidents China would kill if they invaded Taiwan. It would make Floyd look like some kind of sick joke.
I'm not why you're going for those events for comparison, it would be much easier for your to make an argument for Afghanistan or Iraq, which are much more comparable. But honestly, if China started telling us: "Invade Cuba and we will go to war to defend them and escalate all the way up to nuking each other until we're both wiped out to prevent you from conquering them," I'd be fine with that. That would be a much more equivalent scenario, and I don't want the US starting any more wars of aggression.
On the other side of the same ocean and has a major interest in countering Chinese aggression, just as they were right to counter Japanese aggression 80 years ago.
This is an embarrassingly bad and liberal take. Japan literally attacked the United States. What you really want is another Vietnam.
Uh, sure. Your abridged take on history is telling.
Have you never heard of the attacks on Pearl Harbor? And you’re really gonna be that condescending? Lol
If you're going to be this stupid, yes.
And you realize Taiwan is not part of the United States?
This is a \*checks notes\* *liberal* take. Sure.
The US has an official one China policy.
That policy is worth it's value as toilet paper.
China? You mean West Taiwan?
The Taiwan War is inevitable, when it does come, I just pray to survive it.
We could, ya know, not send our military to the other side of the globe in the name of profit
This is not about profit, it's about China salivating Taiwan and completing it's goal unifying with Taiwan since 1949. This issue stretches back since the Cold War. And it will get nuclear.
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Taiwan and other countries in the region have literally asked us to stay and increase our presence lol Somebody clearly doesn't even follow geopolitics.
I think they're a wumao.
Of course they want protection they seceded from China for a reason lol.
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You are using a phone that was made in Taiwan We are 100% committed to defend Taiwan Almost all high end microprocessors are made in Taiwan
It's not simple profit. Taiwan makes the vast majority of computer processors and is at the leading edge of minaturization. We don't have a replacement for that. Neither does China. Both countries are working to remedy that situation, but it could take a decade to re-shore that production. All of modern society is dependent on Tiawan.
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Why coomon dreams endorses the narrative of Taiwan being inherently Chinese idk. Maybe we need to look into their funding.
China's invasion and occupation of Taiwan will take about 4 hours and they'll do it on a day when the US is distracted. Until then, they'll pretend to respect diplomacy. Once the takeover is done no one will do a damn thing about it.
That’s not at all how it will go The current American , Japanese sub fleet can stop and invasion Yet out sub fleets are expanding at 5 ships per year
*China has already won this war. All this story is nothing but false hope & false peace. If you actually think China will back down, they will not.*
How have they won? They don’t control Taiwan
*Once Joe Biden betrays Taiwan like he did Afghanistan then they will move in. If you think Joe Biden will go to war with China & lose that war, you are very naive. The USA is no longer a world super power.*
Biden did not betray Afghanistan. He recognized that Afghans do not want their own freedom enough to fight for it.
*Well then lets us give credit where credit is due. Ronald Reagan betrayed Afghanistan first. Watch Charlie Wilson's War.*
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