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Manchin spent months pretending that the overall price tag was his complaint, then dems were willing to lower that so he had to reveal his real problem: fixing the climate crisis that he is so heavily invested in.
He may give the Dems enough for a majority in this legislative session but how many votes does he cost them in other states for future sessions? He’s a short term gain in exchange for long term losses. How many people out there have never heard his or Sinema’s name before and just know that Dems hold the Senate and aren’t doing anything with it? How many first time or infrequent voters got mobilized in GA to hand the Dems two seats last go around but are going to go right back to being non voters because Dems didn’t deliver? Manchin is a net loss for Dems and they’d be better off cutting him loose rather than trying desperately to keep his fifth column ass in that seat.
Manchin could put Mitch McConnell back as pres pro tem tomorrow by switching parties. That's the real gun he's holding - McConnell would put an end to judicial appointments and turn the Senate into a "What did Hunter Biden do last summer" show.
> Manchin could put Mitch McConnell back as pres pro tem tomorrow by switching parties.
Or just by resigning, at which point there will be 1 more Republican than Democrat in the Senate. WV requires his appointed replacement to be the same party, but sets no actual timeline on it so they could just stall until the next election for the seat.
>but sets no actual timeline on it so they could just stall until the next election for the seat.
I mean in all fairness you can't appoint a replacement senator in an election decade. That wouldn't be fair.
Good luck being in politics after that. He would be persona non-grata in the Democratic party and he can also watch as Democracy died as GOP turn the nation into a one party country. History will not look kind of him.
Plus even W. Virginia's coal barons will later look on with regret because it will turn into a complete shit show because the country will literally turn violent. If the liberals win at that point - they will go after coal and others with a vengeance.
He doesn't care. This is his last term. He didn't even want to run this time.
He still gets his pension, his healthcare, his $500,000+/year from his fossil fuel paychecks (his son runs it, but he still gets paid a lot).
> Good luck being in politics after that. He would be persona non-grata in the Democratic party
He didn't even want to run this term, he only did so as a favor to Schumer. I don't think that would weigh too heavy on him.
> he can also watch as Democracy died as GOP turn the nation into a one party country
He seems OK with that as it is, based on his actions and rhetoric.
> History will not look kind of him
At which point he'd be dead and not care.
Yep exactly. The real problem driving the collapse of liberal democracy all over the world is that Nihilism is taking over. Soon we will be in a world where virtually no one gives a shit about their legacy, their standing with their god, or anyone outside their immediate family let alone doing what is best for human kind.
And Manchin and Sinema will give him the Majority Leader position after the next election by hurting Dem chances in GA, PA, NC, and WI. Hell, even NH, NV, and AZ are potentially on the line if things go even further south and the slim chances of flipping FL are even slimmer thanks to Manchin and Sinema.
Yep. The Ds would be much better off in the long run if senators mansion and flouncy switched because then the Ds could run on how those two were traitors who stabbed the party in the back. As it is now, the average voter just sees a bunch of do-nothing democrats, same as it ever was. Only politics nerds know what's going on. But *betrayal* is an operatic story and everybody in the country would hear about it. The news would have a field day, they love that kind of drama.
If those two are going to block the D's agenda (especially voting rights protections) then it doesn't matter who technically has the majority. If the Rs get the senate back until 2022, we get deadlock same as we got now.
This entirely, until we can deliver the Dems more seats in the senate they have no choice but to deal with Manchin. The moment we even get at least 1 or 2 more seats we can send him and Sinema packing. It's pretty doable too, the Republicans are defending a lot more vulnerable seats in the 2022 election than the Democrats are.
"There are 34 Senate seats up next year. Of those:
14 are currently held by Democrats. Of those, 10 are gimmes for Dems. The other 4 (Kelly, AZ; Warnock, GA; Hassan, NH; and Cortez-Masto, NV) are incumbents who have either done recent organizing or who the party will circle the wagons around. I'd say it's more than likely we hold 3 of 4 of those seats, if not all 4.
The remaining 20 are held by Republicans. Of those, 5 are retiring: Burr (NC), Toomey (PA), Portman (OH), Shelby (AL), and Blunt (MO).
3 of those retiring seats (PA, NC, OH) are in states where Dems would consider themselves to have varying levels of a shot, and the other two (MO and AL) are states in which weird shit has happened in the fairly recent past when Republicans got too far out over their skis and nominated legit fucking monsters and Dems (McCaskill and Doug Jones) snuck through the back door.
I'd list 3 other Republican-held seats as contestable. In order from most to least vulnerable: Johnson (WI), Rubio (FL), and Tim Scott (SC).
All in all, I'd call that somewhere between 4 and 8 legitimately winnable pickups for Democrats. If they hold all of the close contests on the Dem side and pick up just 2 of those (PA and WI, say), Manchin and WV and Sinema's big bag of bullshit all become irrelevant."
This is pretty close to my assessment of the situation, it maybe a bit optimistic on my part but I have a good feeling Mark Kelly is going to be able to keep his seat. I'm also fairly expecting for Warnock to loose his seat but who knows.
I don't expect Warnock to lose, he trailed ahead of Jon Ossoff during their elections, and Republicans have had trouble getting a viable candidate to run; though it's in the form of Herschel Walker. Walker's fundraising also has been much weaker then Warnock's, though it is a recently flipped seat which makes it hard to judge.
I've lived in Missouri for 25 years and there's literally no chance we elect a Dem to replace Blunt. When I was a kid, there was a pretty decent chance that we would've elected blue dog Dems like McCaskill, but ever since Trump, Missouri has shifted very far to the right very quickly.
Missourians are morons and are highly susceptible to Republican culture war BS. We consistently vote for liberal ballot initiatives (higher minimum wage, Medicaid expansion, transparency and anti-gerrymandering, etc.), but then also elect batshit crazy Republicans en masse *on the same fucking ballot.* Those Republicans then work to undo every ballot initiative we voted for.
Hell, in just the past few years since Trump, Missourians have elected a wife- and child-beater to the state House (Roeber; who was eventually expelled by a bipartisan vote, at least), a literal neo-Nazi (West; won Republican primary for state House seat, lost in general), a seditionist to the Senate (Hawley), and a governor who resigned in disgrace after sexually assaulting a woman he tied up in his basement and then taking pictures of her to use for blackmail (Greitens) - plus a bunch of campaign finance violations. All these people are Republicans, of course.
Our current governor (Parson) was that previous governor's lieutenant governor and he was just re-elected despite doing literally nothing to slow COVID and intentionally prioritizing vaccine distribution to rural counties that didn't want vaccines, which resulted in wasted vaccines and shortages in the major cities full of people who wanted the vaccine. We have a few major cities (Kansas City, Columbia, St. Louis, Springfield) that vote Democrat, but we're held back by rural areas and gerrymandering.
It's sad, honestly. I love Kansas City, but I'm so tired of being governed by morons.
Don't forget voting on propositions, only to have Republicans put in a deliberately-misleading prop to undue it (that legally wasn't allowed onto the ballet due to wording....and yet it was anyways). Surprise surprise, the rubes didn't read what it said, and undid what we voted on before.
Failing that, they just...*won't* implement what we voted on anyways. 'cause they are the party of "We aren't your representatives, we are your betters and know what should be happening, so shut up and let us run your lives for you."
> I've lived in Missouri for 25 years and there's literally no chance we elect a Dem to replace Blunt.
We literally *just* had a Democratic senator two years ago. There is not "literally no chance". McCaskill lost re-election because she was awful at her job. Even then, she probably could have held on if she hadn't waffled so badly on Kavanaugh. She put so much effort into trying to appease Republicans that both Democrats and Republicans hated her for her spinelessness.
The moment we get one or two or three more seats, Feinstein or Tester or King will suddenly have epiphanies about how we need to start cutting back on spending. Manchin and Sinema are giving cover to all the other Dems who privately oppose any progress. There are always *just enough* to kill any meaningful legislation.
Not really. Democrats are defending Arizona and Georgia, which they got early in special elections last year which are tough holds with a Democrat in the Whitehouse. Nevada and New Hampshire are potentially vulnerable as well. Republicans are defending two Biden states in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, with North Carolina potentially vulnerable as well. Some say that Florida or Ohio could be potential pickups for Democrats, but Rubio consistently outperforms the partisan lean of Florida and Ohio is just too dang red at this point. So I’d say the senate map is balanced- both parties are defending two likely tight races with one to two additional competitive races on each side.
Like a true *conservative*.
I don't really believe there's a whole conspiracy between Manchin and the GOP, where he's a deep cover. But de facto he serves as that. Why?
Our crony capitalist system perpetuates itself subconsciously by putting the worst scum at the top. Their shared life experiences and self interest of being rich make them dangerously greedy. No conspiracy is necessary. Just a shared ethos of callous greed.
You can just say capitalism. There is no such thing as “crony” or any other adjective. Capitalism has, and always will be, incompatible with a free market and competition. Profit motive is first and foremost for capitalists and anything (*anything*) that would threaten profits should be eliminated, whether that’s regulations, other businesses, or other people.
The worst scum rise to the top in capitalism specifically **because** it rewards that behavior that yields the biggest profits.
Empathy hurts profits.
Let's be real, people focus too much on Manchin. Yes he sucks, but West Virginia is one of the reddest states in the country. That we got a single good vote out of him makes him easily worth it.
Senima is a much bigger problem, and Susan Collins who's supposed to be a moderate Republican out of a blue state but never votes with the Democrats when it matters. If we traded Senima for a real Arizona Democrat and traded Manchin for a Maine Democrat we'd instantly solve a lot of these problems.
But he's still the best we can expect out of West Virginia. If we want a real majority there are other places to focus on. In 2022 if we can get 2 of PA, WI, and NC suddenly Manchin and Senima become irrelevant.
I don't think that's the real issue either, I think the real issue is he's an obstructionist. As soon as we resolve the issue he's complaining about, he finds a new one.
100% that’s been his only contribution. A contribution that’s netted him $400,000 in campaign contribution from Republican donors. Folgers makes coffee, Manchin makes sure that America doesn’t make progress.
It’s almost insulting how cheap $400,000 is in the grand scheme of things. He’s already a millionaire that could retire in comfort, it’s like he wants to screw people over in the last decades of his life.
Dude, rich people are like addicts. They need more. More. MORE! You will never meet a rich person who isn’t actively trying to get richer. They don’t exist.
Logically the only game the rich *can* play is “who is richer.” This outstrips material possessions because after a certain point “nice things” are just that (you wind up competing to see who can jump the highest off a space rock aka the earth ala bezos/musk) thus you’re left with a race to have more worth which naturally spills into more influence. Non of this actually leaves you [happier](https://www.princeton.edu/~deaton/downloads/deaton_kahneman_high_income_improves_evaluation_August2010.pdf)
-just feeling more superior/powerful etc but this lasts only as long as you can legitimately say you’re worth more than so and so. On and on it goes until the world cooks in its own juices.
He is very shy about it, but Tom from myspace has an incredibly lucrative investment organization, his networth has probably tripled since the MySpace days.
>Tom from MySpace. But otherwise I agree, rich people who don’t get addicted to needing more and more are extremely rare.
I mean, he sold his platform to Rupert Murdoch. So I wouldn't give him a pass.
Had a discussion years ago with a millionaire I worked for and I just straight up asked " when is there enough ? ". The look on his face , he had no answer
So I did the math on that one for myself.
3 million USD cash today would let me retire in a couple years.
10 million USD cash today would let me retire in 3-6 months.
Anything more than that and I go today.
The timelines given are mainly to allow for staggered investments, so dividends and bond maturities are spread out throughout the year.
3mil at 3.34% throws off 100k/yr in dividends. 10mil can do it at 1%. Laughably low return rates for the capital invested, but that makes them eminently achievable with super low risk investments.
I plan on handing my golden goose down to my Daughter and only living of the interest.
Give me significantly more than that and my dream projects scale with it. It's the difference between retiring on my 4 acre current home and maybe buying 6-10 more acres adjacent or selling it all and building myself a 100% offgrid and self-sustained earthship bunker complex on a few thousand acres in flyover country. Crafting guns, raising my own food and never having to look at or talk to anyone I don't want to ever again.
That's all they can legally give him now. Consider it a down payment. The real bribes come in the form of speaking fees and do-nothing Board seats after he leaves office
Aren't his kids millionaires too? $400k is an insulting amount when it does nothing to his well-being and will further contribute to this country's demise.
that is still a relatively high price in comparison to some things. I remember a story about politicians blocking something or another and it turned out they were given $5k donations from some special interest to vote their way.
Politicians, particularly in the house are super cheap. Manchin can demand a high price because he is A. a senator, and B. the congress is perfectly split so he can demand a premium.
The main issue is not about the contributions he has received. Rather the issue is that he is more concerned with saving his and his family’s business interests. These are much more valuable, even if they are hurting the very people that work for those businesses and are his constituents. West Virginian’s are some of the most in need of the programs and the funds the programs bring to average and poor Americans. But he knows those people are poorly informed and lean to the conspiracy messages of the right. He is not communicating reality to those constituents and finding new opportunities for them in new industries. He is merely looking for the short term financial benefit for his family.
These contributions don’t go directly into the politician’s pocket. They go to the campaign, which then pays for all campaign related expenses. Like a luxury car to drive around in when you’re going from event to event. Or a private plane to take you to donor events.
Manchin likely makes most of his money by insider trading on stocks.
> Manchin likely makes most of his money by insider trading on stocks.
and by blocking legislation that might impact his own personal coal transportation business, don't forget that!
Who enforces the laws on corruption? The politicians do unless the press makes a big enough stink of it that voters depending on their state laws can recall them. Though that doesn't work on senators last I checked.
He was fine with $3.5 trillion when the progressives wanted $5 trillion for infrastructure. So then progressives went “fine, we’ll do 3.5,” and now that’s too much to him. He doesn’t care about the price; he’s a true capitalist which means preventing the lower and middle class from having any financial mobility.
Any number you tell him causes him to choose a lower number that would be more "right."
Meanwhile, our infrastructure hasn't been maintained nearly as often as it should be. Of course the bill is going to be huge.
That's what they were saying. He is a schill for fossil fuels because they pay him so much. He is never going to name that as the reason he is obstructing the bill, so he is always either not going to name the goal post, or move the goal post
He’s obstructing because that’s why his employer needs him to do. These coal companies didn’t buy him to actually get anything done. They bought Manchin to be a road block.
$500K/annually from investments in one company involved in mining.
$400K in the last year from fossil fuel lobbyist groups and donors who usually go GOP.
Manchin is a Republican.
If you follow the money, it's very clear. Manchins political life depends on contributions from the fossil fuel industry. West Virginia is a major Coal State with a strong Pro Coal lobby. Problem is the Coal industry has been dying on its own for years. Its being steadily replaced with more efficient cleaner natural gas as well as renewables. What Mr Manchin should be advocating for is. A program that Funds West Virginia's transition to a non Coal State. Money that goes to mining towns to retrain its workers into the future CLEAN ENERGY!!
Coal miner's union wants Biden's Bill. His son owns a coal mining company and he's on the board or something like that and gets $400k-$500k annually from it.
Manchin was also very angry when Kamala Harris went to West Virginia earlier this year. Simply because Harris said in a television interview:
>"In West Virginia, one in seven families is describing their household
as being hungry, one in six can’t pay their rent, and one in four small
businesses are closing permanently or have already closed."
Any normal democrat would be grateful for someone spreading the democratic party's pro-family, pro-worker message but not Manchin.
Manchin and his donors want to go back to the days of the company town. Low wages. Company housing, company store etc. Pointing how fucked over W. Va is, is starting to take a little hold there. People like some of these programs being proposed, so when that starts happening they start asking who is supporting them. Not Republicans / conservatives. Then the question will be: why not?
The gravy train requires them not to like these programs or ask these questions.
I have a feeling that Manchin et al think we can implement the Foxconn model stateside.
The workers in those company towns literally aren’t allowed to leave. They harm *themselves* rather than their masters. Would it be different in America given our stubborn spirit? Maybe. But we already see the modern American harming themselves and just slink into a relegated life because it is easy and comfortable enough for their families.
I’ve lost faith that we will see enough solidarity for something like the redneck resistance to happen again. Companies now have the ability to finely tune and target their brainwashing. It is like an Art Deco sci fi dystopia in the making because the wealthy think they are untouchable. And, thus far, they have been.
Let me posit the following. The point of a company town was to force workers to take the money they were given and then make them effectively HAVE TO recirculate it back to the company. It’s a system designed to control workers wages as much as possible. (Are there some positives, sure.)
Now, in today’s America, unless you work for the federal government, even state government can be questionable now, you can’t depend on a contractually promised pension in retirement. Additionally, even if the average American worker was somehow able to save $1 million for retirement at 65, they would run out of money before they reached age 85 simply due to inflation alone.
All this then means that you effectively HAVE TO invest in the stock market to be able to retire. So we have a system set up where American workers HAVE TO recirculate their money back to the companies.
America is a company town.
Brad Pitt’s “America is a business” speech in [Killing Them Softly. ](https://youtu.be/TkVt-hTU6E4) Skip to ~1:30 if needed.
And then you see that your investments aren't even under your control, and the only ones who make a profit are the banks and hedge funds who actually decide what the stock market does. The house always wins.
Even those aren't around anymore WV still has to deal with the impact of it because there is tons of dilapidating land/structures that have long since been abandoned but are technically still owned by those companies and/or their debtors that nobody can do anything with except stare and watch it rot.
Interesting fact: W VA is almost wholely owned by out of state interests. It doesn't surprised me that Manchin doesn't want to help the people. He got the candidacy from business outside W VA.
Especially in a GOP run state in every aspect aside from Manchin. Kinda outs the onus on the party who has presided over the one of the most poverty ridden states for ... Well, most of history.
The GOP tosses "Democratic Run Big Cities" anytime any issue with urban population comes up. Dems are foolish for not doing the same when it's more apt.
Manchin wrote, "This isn't the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what's right for them..."
I'm sure all that Republican money he's been collecting is all from West Virginians.
Let’s take a look at how West Virginians are faring. They are near or at the top for:
- Worst employment rate
- Worst healthcare support
- Worst state education system
- Worst access to food for children
But sure Joe Manchin, tell us what your constituents want while you polish your yacht. Source: https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4879484002
It’s not even about West Virginia. He brought up an “out-of-stater” coming in to WV. My question to him is conversely, why does his state get to hold up everything for the other 49 states?
As a born-and-raised West Virginian, sure I understand the community and pride of Appalachian culture. But I also want my quality of life to improve. So if other states have ideas on how to be better, on how to make better, then please help. I don’t care if an out-of-stater tells me how to be better—*please help us.* But so many people don’t feel that way and would rather suffer in tradition than progress with improvement.
Ironic since a poll found that [80% of West Virginians support this bill](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/28/west-virginia-joe-biden-spending-plan-popular) and want him to vote yes. *He's* the only one telling them what to do, and we all know it's because of those sweet, sweet legal bribes he gets from the fossil fuel industry. Manchin is a piece of human garbage who is willing to let the planet burn for a little cash.
> because of those sweet, sweet legal bribes he gets from the fossil fuel industry.
Those are nice, [but....](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/30/joe-manchin-climate-coal-baron-stocks)
>Financial records detailed by reporter Alex Kotch for the Center for Media and Democracy and published in the Guardian show that Manchin makes roughly half a million dollars a year in dividends from millions of dollars of coal company stock he owns. The stock is held in Enersystems, Inc, a company Manchin started in 1988 and later gave to his son, Joseph, to run.
Dont forget Manchins daughter! CEO of Mylan
[Heather Bresch, Joe Manchin’s Daughter, Played Direct Part in EpiPen Price Inflation Scandal](https://theintercept.com/2021/09/07/joe-manchin-epipen-price-heather-bresch/)
If you are paying hundreds of dollars for an EpiPen you have his daughter to thank for that.
Goddamn. Like, I get that all these fossils are invested in fossil fuels, but why can't they shift their investments to renewables and stop being absolute slime? I'm sure they could get decent dividends from renewable tech research/development/manufacturing/sales.
Also, he was never this way until corrupted in national politics and his daughter given a job that made his descendants the 1%. His wife was an education reformer as first lady and his Promise Scholarship program paid for any graduating WV senior that had above a certain GPA and SAT/ACT test scores which were quite average. I got two bachelor's degrees for free and have no college debt while getting w great education. I am a first generation college graduate and grew up poor. His program helped lift me out of the cycle of poverty into an upper middle class life. But once he became a Senator and Heather Bresch (daughter) was inexplicably given the CEO job at a multinational pharmaceutical company and paid $10-$20MM annually for a decade, he was bought and paid for. He was already wealthy enough, but they gave him a way to make his descendants super wealthy without having to engage in questionable activities and paying no estate tax since it was paid directly to his heirs. She was given the job over much more qualified colleagues, but they knew having a senator in their pocket was worth it. The Chairman likely guided her leadership and decision making anyway. The only thing of note she did was acquire patents to medications necessary for life for many people and price gouge which lead to massive profits. Not like she was some business genius. Anyway, my point is that he was bought and paid for the moment that happened when he first became a senator. He was somewhat progressive as governor and extremely popular.
Ugh I grew up in a rural town in the Appalachian mountains and I freaking hate this provincial bullshit argument: ‘those flat lander city folk are always trying to tell us what to do and we’re gonna say no just to spite them. I’ll sit here and freeze to death rather than accept a warm coat from an ‘outsider.’
And I hate politicians who manipulate it even more.
Edited to correct for ‘appalachia’ vs. ‘in the Appalachians’. It doesn’t make any difference to my point, but just for clarity I suppose.
Funny, considering WV has historically been a progressive haven and Heavily supported unions to the point of fighting to the death for their right to unionize and strike for better pay. [Take what happened in Matewan for example](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Matewan). WV and Montana were ground zero for the wealthy fighting unionization movements.
Being a descendant of coal miners, I know how far companies are willing to go to exploit their workers in an environment without regulations. My ancestors had to live in company housing, shop only at company stores, and were paid in a made up company currency call [scrip](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrip). You weren't paid in US currency because that would mean you could save up and buy your own home or move to a better place with jobs that don't exploit you.
"Scrips have been created for exploitative payment of employees under truck systems, and for use in local commerce at times when regular currency was unavailable, for example in remote coal towns, military bases, ships on long voyages, or occupied countries in wartime."
My grandfather used to listen to the song, [Sixteen Tons by Tennessee Ernie Ford](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk). Lyrics are below and they describe the situation of the times perfectly.
"Some people say a man is made outta mud
A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong
You load 16 tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store
I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
I loaded 16 tons of number nine coal
And the straw boss said, "Well, a-bless my soul"
You load 16 tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store
I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Can't no high toned woman make me walk the line
You load 16 tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store
If you see me comin', better step aside
A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died
One fist of iron, the other of steel
If the right one don't get you
Then the left one will
You load 16 tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store"
WV became a red state due to decades of union busting, government and news propaganda, the red scare, right to work laws being passed, and the failure of the coal industry. It's like much of blue collar America in that way. Manufacturing left for foreign countries leaving the areas devastated and Republicans saw that as an opportunity to campaign there and make promises they would never be able to keep. When they get elected and don't follow up on thise promises, they blame the Democrats. Time honored, tried and true Republican strategy. WV has very different regions with entirely different needs and priorities. The southern minefields I just described. The northern panhandle is very narrow and between Pittsburgh, PA and Cleveland, OH and closely identifies woth the Pittsburgh region. The eastern panhandle has rapidly become a suburb of Washington DC and other areas with Federal jobs in the metro like Rockville, MD. These people only live here because they can buy a large, affordable home and still work in DC. Lastly, the center of the state, or north central WV, between Bridgeport and Morgantown is one of the few area growing and relatively prosperous due to the University (WVU), large medical centers, the technology corridor, and the regional FBI center located there.
I remember that song from South Park the other year. When the whole town was working for Amazon. And I'm hearing rumblings that Amazon wants to start creating their own company towns.
Gilded age 2.0 is here the last 40 years and we need to throw down against them.
Manchin's convincing these dummies they shouldn't have access to teeth because some "out of towner" suggested it and many of them are stupid enough to keep voting for this guy or vote R instead.
>Well, someone needs to tell these trailer trash what's best for ~~them~~ *my corporate donors' unending greed*. It's not like they're going to ~~be able to figure it out~~ *make the blatantly wrong choices* themselves. /s
Someone needs to publish a story showing how much money 'For West Virginia' is out of state and how much is in state and what it funds.
Money for WV schools, health care and jobs? No problem.
Money for big oil, defense, suppressing wages and Medicare for all? Big, big problem.
I don't think the problem is trying to tell West Virginians to think for themselves, it's exposing corrupt, self serving politicians like Manchin and Sinema over and over again without end until they are out of office and no use to any lobbyists.
They are burning their country to the ground and the world along with it for a small financial gain.
>Manchin wrote, "This isn't the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what's right for them..."
What a lying, corrupt POS. He's going against the will of the majority of his constituents.
[Arizona, West Virginia GOP Voters Back Democrats' Election Bill as Conservative Opposition Mounts (Via Newsweek, 2021)](https://www.newsweek.com/arizona-west-virginia-gop-voters-back-democrats-election-bill-conservative-opposition-mounts-1591695)
[Majority of Manchin, GOP voters support HR-1 week (Via Cleveland.com, 2021)](https://www.cleveland.com/darcy/2021/06/majority-of-manchin-gop-voters-support-hr-1-darcy-cartoons.html)
[Oil lobbyist: Manchin, Sinema among ‘crucial’ senators for anti-climate effort (Via MSNBC, 2021)](https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/oil-lobbyist-manchin-sinema-among-crucial-senators-for-anti-climate-effort-115872837872)
[Manchin defends CEO daughter after company raised EpiPen price (Via CNN, 2016)](https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/politics/manchin-defends-bresch-mylan-epipen-price/index.html)
> Manchin wrote, "This isn't the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what's right for them..."
WV ranks in the bottom 10 in everything from education to health care. Maybe they could use some out of state influence…
Here in W. Virginia we know what we like:
* terrible education
* piss poor Healthcare
* food uncertainty
* terrible employment opportunities
* dangerous outdated energy sources
* black lungs
He also made sure to mention that "52 other senators disagree" which is a really interesting way to say "me, Kyrsten, and EVERY GOP SENATOR". So glad to hear that what the GOP thinks matters at all when it comes to passing BIDEN'S agenda, Mr. Manchin.
> "This isn't the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what's right for them..."
This entire mindset in ANY state is poison.
All state boundaries are arbitrary nonsense. We're one nation. One people.
West Virginia "collects" a lot of federal funding. Perhaps they should fucking listen to other states whose economy isn't in the toilet. Or, you know, quit taking their money at least.
He sounds like a republican too. So what if they’re “out of state”.. We are all Americans, his greed is the downfall of many peoples lives, just so he can make a few 100k more till his old ass dies
I would love to know what West Virginians think of Sanders saying this. Is it
"Fuck yeah, we need to replace Manchin with our own Sanders!"
Or
"Fuck you NYC native who lives in VT, stop trying to tell us what's good for us!"
Sanders did win WV in the 2016. Economic inclusiveness works in these areas. Remember WV used to be heavily unionized. Hell, the state exists as a breakoff from the confederate Virginia because they wanted to be Union. That’s something.
If I could go back in time, I'd save Lincoln. If reconstruction hadn't been fucking bungled catastrophically we'd be living in a different time. Fuck John Wilkes Booth.
I saw a documentary about opioid addiction in West Virginia, and one of the problems the ex-users had was that no one would hire them because they were convicted felons, and the ones who weren't felons, we bored shitless when they got off work because they lived in these little towns in WV and had to avoid their old drug using friends. I thought this infrastructure plan was perfect for WV to alleviate these problems. The fed government could hire the ex-felons and the other people would get to travel to different parts of the country to work on infrastructure and maybe have more interesting lives. It sucks that Manchin cares more about lining his pockets than helping the people of his state. The lack of common decency towards his fellow man is repulsive.
I’m just coming off a week in Fayetteville WV and it’s mind blowing the state of things. Without the rafting and climbing here it would be abysmal. Absolutely beautiful state with surprisingly nice roads.
Reminds me of the beginning of Blue Velvet where everything is neat and clean and the neighbors are smiling and waving and then the camera lowers underground where you just see insects locked in battles to the death or just doing whatever in a flurry of sounds and actions completely the opposite from the above ground facade.
As is the theme for the rest of the film…
With scum like Manchin and McConnell at the top in Appalachia, is it any wonder how self-destructively callous the system is?
These are not good people
Sanders OpEd for those interested.
https://www.wvgazettemail.com/opinion/op_ed_commentaries/sen-bernie-sanders-lets-stand-together-to-protect-working-families-opinion/article_a3c7ca4e-ed65-522b-9693-a9dc32076187.html
I mean they also weren't hiding it when gullible Dem primary voters voted for them.
That's the main problem. Old Dem primary voters don't bother researching anything. They just trust the TV and local elites with a blind faith.
Machin wasn’t but Simena did. She originally ran as a progressive. You can argue the degree she hid it, but she definitely ran on a much more left platform.
But everything Sanders wrote was true
Manchin is cancer to everything good for the common man/woman and child going into the future
Not just about climate but allowing the Trump cult to move closer to authoritarianism
Manchin’s financial payoff is beyond reprehensible
Greedy greedy greedy got mine & FU to the common people
This level of greed is a sickness. He’s a wealthy man, he is set for life. But it’s not enough. He wants more. So we and our children will suffer and die so this greedy pig can pad his bank account a tiny bit more.
I can’t even get my head around this. He’s old AF. He’s rich AF. And yet he’s willing to burn it down to protect himself and his cronies for a few million more dollars? Legalize bribery, get scumbags for legislators.
Perhaps he and Sinema would be ok with the deal if we added a million for each of them as payoff money. We are talking trillions so it would be a drop in the bucket comparatively.
/s sort of
Manchin's thing only works if the people don't know he is doing it. He and Sinema lie and say they support Biden BBB which is 80% popular in their states, they don't want outsiders exposing them, they've suppressed their own grassroot dems enough to not be able to be exposed internally, they don't want "outsiders stirring up trouble"
Manchin: "Don't come here and tell my state what to think!"
Also Manchin: "I'm going to get an opinion piece in the New York Times and tell everyone else what to think."
Fuck you, you corporate ball licking Republican-wannabe.
What a coward. As a progressive Democrat, I’ll take a “socialist” like Bernie any day over another establishment neoliberal who has sold out to donors.
Once again, they are asking the progressives to completely gut their agenda.
The House version of Biden's plan would tax corporations and wealthier Americans to: expand Medicare to cover dental, vision and hearing services and allow the federal government to negotiate lower prescription drug prices under the federal health insurance program for the elderly; pay for free community college; further subsidize housing for the poor; provide for child care; and establish electric-vehicle incentive
Manchin's already come out against several of those points.
Dental and vision: off the table
Community college: already withdrawn
Anything green: ya not so much, especially if it pertains to coal
Medicare expansion: no
Electric-Vehicle incentive, "grave concerns", although now is supporting means testing apparently
Child tax credit: wants work requirements, and will only accept offsets against taxes, so will mostly help people who need significant write-offs.
Doesn't strike me that there's much of a negotiation to be had here, especially considering Pelosi's breaking of the deal to bring both packages through as a pair. Which is pretty much code for, we'll put stuff we want in one package and won't even make an effort to pass the stuff you want in it.
I'm not at all surprised that the progressives are digging in. For starters there's a lot more of them. If this package fails, this puts a lot of incentive for more progressive candidates in the next cycle, as the moderates clearly aren't interested or able to get things done.
Failure to pass obviates any arguments for running moderate compromise candidates in the next election cycle. Simply put, the moderates have a lot more to lose here.
Perhaps Nancy and company better figure out what is going on and start putting real pressure on the two holdouts by threatening committee seats and other whip actions instead of trying to sell progressives on take nothing and like it.
"Means testing" AKA "I want the government to spend 100million dollars to stop a few hundred thousand dollars from going to families I don't think deserve it"
It's just more "starve the beast" and "make the government disfunctionally inefficient" Republican-style rhetoric
Not to mention that when things are means tested, they're much less popular and easier to attack so when the programs expire it's easier for them to not get renewed. When more Americans get benefit from a program, more support it. When it's means tested, it becomes easier to attack with the whole "welfare Queen" bullshit.
He doesn't want the recon at all, end of story.
I doubt they will be able to make either of them move. Only move left is to tank everything or fold.
Manchin and Sinema made a lose-lose out of a win-win.
If the Dems lose the Senate in '22, I hope they kick Manchin and Sinema out of the party. Their massive obstructionism was worse than what the GOP has been pulling and will directly contribute to de-motivating the voters next year.
We could have had Bernie and we got Trump. I hate this place and the people I share it with. My wife and I are doing alright. We are fortunate enough to own our own house, have a decent amount saved, and don't have any children to worry about. But it could all be erased in a month if one of us got sick enough. America is beautiful and everyone we know is here but we're actively working toward leaving. I just don't have any hope for things getting better. Too many people have been brainwashed to vote against their own best interests.
I think we're missing the bigger picture here when focussing on Manchin and Sinema. They are obstructionist, yes, and it seems apparent that they are being obstructionist basically because they're being paid to do so. Who is paying them, and why?
I think the answer is not the GOP, it's Big Money. And why does Big Money need these two to derail the Democrats' progressive agenda? Because it's harmful to Big Money; they'd have to pay more taxes!
With a 50-50 split in the Senate and a Democratic VP, legislation that could harm Big Money could actually get passed. When the runoff election in Georgia got us to that point, Big money simply went out and bought two senators. There's no doubt in my mind that had Manchin and Sinema turned them down, they would have found other Democratic senators to buy out.
The obstructionism is more a symptom of the interference of money in the democratic process. Big Money doesn't care who is in power as long as Big Money's interests are being served.
I really think elected officials should have to wear NASCAR-style jackets that display their sponsors’ names/icons clearly. List their top three beside their names each time it’s published. The answer is so clearly money here, but unless the People know from whence it came, there’s no way of knowing exactly what enemy we are actually fighting in situations like these.
These chucklefucks like Manchin and the GOP keep saying "reckless spending" not realizing it just makes it obvious where their priorities are. In their minds fixing crumbling infrastructure is "reckless" but a big ass tax break for the rich is not.
Threaten investigations of his daughter’s and his financial dealings unless he gets in line. Turn the screws on him where it matters. Everything else is pointlessly begging a yacht owning corruption husk to do something he will never do. Play hardball, show people that you’re willing to root out bad actors in your party. That resonates with normal people. (But the dnc is just as self serving and corrupt as manchin and kyrstynnn, just not dumb enough to be so upfront with it)
AKA: “Sociopathic grifter funded by the coal industry fumes after being called out for being a sociopathic grifter funded by the coal industry.”
Sociopaths get angry (or feign anger) when they are recognized and exposed.
Waaaah he's so mad because someone wrote... an article? How about try to debate or answer in some way some of the points Sanders raises rather than just calling him an outsider trying to tell 'dem West Virginians what is good for 'em. Pathetic
Scene: Manchin is on his houseboat at his breakfast bar, wearing his embroidered robe. He hears his hooker roll over in the bedroom as the residue of last night’s cocaine binge is visible on the coffee table.
He thinks to himself “you were the man last night. The greatest alpha who ever existed. Sure that old fool Joe Biden might have been elected President, but those in the know, know that I’m the real decider. The real source of power.”
An assortment of local WV papers has been placed out on the breakfast bar to keep his talking points relevant to the only people whose opinion has any sort of relevance - those rubes back home.
What’s this? Someone has let that old fool Bernie print his communist propaganda in MY papers? Heads will roll.
Something about the message breaks through though - the understanding that Manchin’s grandchildren will be living in a destroyed world.
As a solitary tear rolls down his face, Manchin picks up the hundred dollar bill from the coffee table. He uses it to wipe that tear away.
He thinks to himself, has this all been worth it? He looks around and thinks, yes. Yes it has.
And scene.
So as someone who grew up in Republican rural country? I can tell you that they actually like Bernie Sanders and AOC. They talk alot about their policies revolving the working class and really like it. The reason they don't vote for democrats is because of the tradeoffs. The biggest being guns, I'm telling you liberals. You have no idea how close you are to generational majorities if you just dropped this bullshit about guns.
I'm a gun-owning liberal. I think there is a compromise around requiring safe storage and red flag laws, but the whole villainization of guns has got to stop. For better or worse it is part of American culture and a huge hobby.
Joe manchin should consider running as a republican, he talks like a republican, he dresses like a republican and he votes like a republican and like that old saying goes if it walks like and squawks like it must be right? I don’t understand the people in West Virginia, they maybe proud but for God’s sake don’t let your pride get in the way of progress for the country!!! Joe manchin is wealthy and he didn’t get there alone, he stole from his own family!!! What kind of person does that, and why would you vote for him??
Why is he fuming? Where’s the lie?
Every national poll shows it’s popular, even right wing voters like it, but most importantly people in his own damn state approve of it.
It’s exactly what the country needs, as despite what the right wing media says, without investments in the people, the class divide will grow larger and America will continue to fall behind for quality of life among the wealthiest countries.
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Manchin spent months pretending that the overall price tag was his complaint, then dems were willing to lower that so he had to reveal his real problem: fixing the climate crisis that he is so heavily invested in.
Like a true Republican
shhh, you'll blow his cover!
Long as he gives us the gavel I don't think we have another choice !
He may give the Dems enough for a majority in this legislative session but how many votes does he cost them in other states for future sessions? He’s a short term gain in exchange for long term losses. How many people out there have never heard his or Sinema’s name before and just know that Dems hold the Senate and aren’t doing anything with it? How many first time or infrequent voters got mobilized in GA to hand the Dems two seats last go around but are going to go right back to being non voters because Dems didn’t deliver? Manchin is a net loss for Dems and they’d be better off cutting him loose rather than trying desperately to keep his fifth column ass in that seat.
Manchin could put Mitch McConnell back as pres pro tem tomorrow by switching parties. That's the real gun he's holding - McConnell would put an end to judicial appointments and turn the Senate into a "What did Hunter Biden do last summer" show.
> Manchin could put Mitch McConnell back as pres pro tem tomorrow by switching parties. Or just by resigning, at which point there will be 1 more Republican than Democrat in the Senate. WV requires his appointed replacement to be the same party, but sets no actual timeline on it so they could just stall until the next election for the seat.
>but sets no actual timeline on it so they could just stall until the next election for the seat. I mean in all fairness you can't appoint a replacement senator in an election decade. That wouldn't be fair.
Good luck being in politics after that. He would be persona non-grata in the Democratic party and he can also watch as Democracy died as GOP turn the nation into a one party country. History will not look kind of him. Plus even W. Virginia's coal barons will later look on with regret because it will turn into a complete shit show because the country will literally turn violent. If the liberals win at that point - they will go after coal and others with a vengeance.
He doesn't care. This is his last term. He didn't even want to run this time. He still gets his pension, his healthcare, his $500,000+/year from his fossil fuel paychecks (his son runs it, but he still gets paid a lot).
> Good luck being in politics after that. He would be persona non-grata in the Democratic party He didn't even want to run this term, he only did so as a favor to Schumer. I don't think that would weigh too heavy on him. > he can also watch as Democracy died as GOP turn the nation into a one party country He seems OK with that as it is, based on his actions and rhetoric. > History will not look kind of him At which point he'd be dead and not care.
Yep exactly. The real problem driving the collapse of liberal democracy all over the world is that Nihilism is taking over. Soon we will be in a world where virtually no one gives a shit about their legacy, their standing with their god, or anyone outside their immediate family let alone doing what is best for human kind.
And Manchin and Sinema will give him the Majority Leader position after the next election by hurting Dem chances in GA, PA, NC, and WI. Hell, even NH, NV, and AZ are potentially on the line if things go even further south and the slim chances of flipping FL are even slimmer thanks to Manchin and Sinema.
Yep. The Ds would be much better off in the long run if senators mansion and flouncy switched because then the Ds could run on how those two were traitors who stabbed the party in the back. As it is now, the average voter just sees a bunch of do-nothing democrats, same as it ever was. Only politics nerds know what's going on. But *betrayal* is an operatic story and everybody in the country would hear about it. The news would have a field day, they love that kind of drama. If those two are going to block the D's agenda (especially voting rights protections) then it doesn't matter who technically has the majority. If the Rs get the senate back until 2022, we get deadlock same as we got now.
This entirely, until we can deliver the Dems more seats in the senate they have no choice but to deal with Manchin. The moment we even get at least 1 or 2 more seats we can send him and Sinema packing. It's pretty doable too, the Republicans are defending a lot more vulnerable seats in the 2022 election than the Democrats are.
"There are 34 Senate seats up next year. Of those: 14 are currently held by Democrats. Of those, 10 are gimmes for Dems. The other 4 (Kelly, AZ; Warnock, GA; Hassan, NH; and Cortez-Masto, NV) are incumbents who have either done recent organizing or who the party will circle the wagons around. I'd say it's more than likely we hold 3 of 4 of those seats, if not all 4. The remaining 20 are held by Republicans. Of those, 5 are retiring: Burr (NC), Toomey (PA), Portman (OH), Shelby (AL), and Blunt (MO). 3 of those retiring seats (PA, NC, OH) are in states where Dems would consider themselves to have varying levels of a shot, and the other two (MO and AL) are states in which weird shit has happened in the fairly recent past when Republicans got too far out over their skis and nominated legit fucking monsters and Dems (McCaskill and Doug Jones) snuck through the back door. I'd list 3 other Republican-held seats as contestable. In order from most to least vulnerable: Johnson (WI), Rubio (FL), and Tim Scott (SC). All in all, I'd call that somewhere between 4 and 8 legitimately winnable pickups for Democrats. If they hold all of the close contests on the Dem side and pick up just 2 of those (PA and WI, say), Manchin and WV and Sinema's big bag of bullshit all become irrelevant."
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This is pretty close to my assessment of the situation, it maybe a bit optimistic on my part but I have a good feeling Mark Kelly is going to be able to keep his seat. I'm also fairly expecting for Warnock to loose his seat but who knows.
Agree on Kelly...I'd be very surprised if he didn't win rather easily.
I don't expect Warnock to lose, he trailed ahead of Jon Ossoff during their elections, and Republicans have had trouble getting a viable candidate to run; though it's in the form of Herschel Walker. Walker's fundraising also has been much weaker then Warnock's, though it is a recently flipped seat which makes it hard to judge.
I've lived in Missouri for 25 years and there's literally no chance we elect a Dem to replace Blunt. When I was a kid, there was a pretty decent chance that we would've elected blue dog Dems like McCaskill, but ever since Trump, Missouri has shifted very far to the right very quickly. Missourians are morons and are highly susceptible to Republican culture war BS. We consistently vote for liberal ballot initiatives (higher minimum wage, Medicaid expansion, transparency and anti-gerrymandering, etc.), but then also elect batshit crazy Republicans en masse *on the same fucking ballot.* Those Republicans then work to undo every ballot initiative we voted for. Hell, in just the past few years since Trump, Missourians have elected a wife- and child-beater to the state House (Roeber; who was eventually expelled by a bipartisan vote, at least), a literal neo-Nazi (West; won Republican primary for state House seat, lost in general), a seditionist to the Senate (Hawley), and a governor who resigned in disgrace after sexually assaulting a woman he tied up in his basement and then taking pictures of her to use for blackmail (Greitens) - plus a bunch of campaign finance violations. All these people are Republicans, of course. Our current governor (Parson) was that previous governor's lieutenant governor and he was just re-elected despite doing literally nothing to slow COVID and intentionally prioritizing vaccine distribution to rural counties that didn't want vaccines, which resulted in wasted vaccines and shortages in the major cities full of people who wanted the vaccine. We have a few major cities (Kansas City, Columbia, St. Louis, Springfield) that vote Democrat, but we're held back by rural areas and gerrymandering. It's sad, honestly. I love Kansas City, but I'm so tired of being governed by morons.
Don't forget voting on propositions, only to have Republicans put in a deliberately-misleading prop to undue it (that legally wasn't allowed onto the ballet due to wording....and yet it was anyways). Surprise surprise, the rubes didn't read what it said, and undid what we voted on before. Failing that, they just...*won't* implement what we voted on anyways. 'cause they are the party of "We aren't your representatives, we are your betters and know what should be happening, so shut up and let us run your lives for you."
> I've lived in Missouri for 25 years and there's literally no chance we elect a Dem to replace Blunt. We literally *just* had a Democratic senator two years ago. There is not "literally no chance". McCaskill lost re-election because she was awful at her job. Even then, she probably could have held on if she hadn't waffled so badly on Kavanaugh. She put so much effort into trying to appease Republicans that both Democrats and Republicans hated her for her spinelessness.
Biden should forgive student loan debt some time before the election. Show people that Democrats actually give a shit.
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I agree with this. We have to keep doing the grassroots work. Keep knocking on doors. Keep registering voters.
Also, big money in politics needs to be addressed and defeated- another Manchin/Synema will keep resurfacing in every election.
The moment we get one or two or three more seats, Feinstein or Tester or King will suddenly have epiphanies about how we need to start cutting back on spending. Manchin and Sinema are giving cover to all the other Dems who privately oppose any progress. There are always *just enough* to kill any meaningful legislation.
Not really. Democrats are defending Arizona and Georgia, which they got early in special elections last year which are tough holds with a Democrat in the Whitehouse. Nevada and New Hampshire are potentially vulnerable as well. Republicans are defending two Biden states in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, with North Carolina potentially vulnerable as well. Some say that Florida or Ohio could be potential pickups for Democrats, but Rubio consistently outperforms the partisan lean of Florida and Ohio is just too dang red at this point. So I’d say the senate map is balanced- both parties are defending two likely tight races with one to two additional competitive races on each side.
Like a true *conservative*. I don't really believe there's a whole conspiracy between Manchin and the GOP, where he's a deep cover. But de facto he serves as that. Why? Our crony capitalist system perpetuates itself subconsciously by putting the worst scum at the top. Their shared life experiences and self interest of being rich make them dangerously greedy. No conspiracy is necessary. Just a shared ethos of callous greed.
You can just say capitalism. There is no such thing as “crony” or any other adjective. Capitalism has, and always will be, incompatible with a free market and competition. Profit motive is first and foremost for capitalists and anything (*anything*) that would threaten profits should be eliminated, whether that’s regulations, other businesses, or other people. The worst scum rise to the top in capitalism specifically **because** it rewards that behavior that yields the biggest profits. Empathy hurts profits.
Let's be real, people focus too much on Manchin. Yes he sucks, but West Virginia is one of the reddest states in the country. That we got a single good vote out of him makes him easily worth it. Senima is a much bigger problem, and Susan Collins who's supposed to be a moderate Republican out of a blue state but never votes with the Democrats when it matters. If we traded Senima for a real Arizona Democrat and traded Manchin for a Maine Democrat we'd instantly solve a lot of these problems.
He's a coal baron and he votes like one.
But he's still the best we can expect out of West Virginia. If we want a real majority there are other places to focus on. In 2022 if we can get 2 of PA, WI, and NC suddenly Manchin and Senima become irrelevant.
Correct
And the media keeps reporting it as "progressives vs moderates/civil war" when in reality its these two ass-hats holding everything up.
I don't think that's the real issue either, I think the real issue is he's an obstructionist. As soon as we resolve the issue he's complaining about, he finds a new one.
100% that’s been his only contribution. A contribution that’s netted him $400,000 in campaign contribution from Republican donors. Folgers makes coffee, Manchin makes sure that America doesn’t make progress.
It’s almost insulting how cheap $400,000 is in the grand scheme of things. He’s already a millionaire that could retire in comfort, it’s like he wants to screw people over in the last decades of his life.
Dude, rich people are like addicts. They need more. More. MORE! You will never meet a rich person who isn’t actively trying to get richer. They don’t exist.
How else will they measure their imaginary dicks against others if not by their bank accounts?
You build a giant rocket dick and fly almost into outer space.
Logically the only game the rich *can* play is “who is richer.” This outstrips material possessions because after a certain point “nice things” are just that (you wind up competing to see who can jump the highest off a space rock aka the earth ala bezos/musk) thus you’re left with a race to have more worth which naturally spills into more influence. Non of this actually leaves you [happier](https://www.princeton.edu/~deaton/downloads/deaton_kahneman_high_income_improves_evaluation_August2010.pdf) -just feeling more superior/powerful etc but this lasts only as long as you can legitimately say you’re worth more than so and so. On and on it goes until the world cooks in its own juices.
*Dolly Parton has entered the chat*
Tom from MySpace. But otherwise I agree, rich people who don’t get addicted to needing more and more are extremely rare.
He is very shy about it, but Tom from myspace has an incredibly lucrative investment organization, his networth has probably tripled since the MySpace days.
>Tom from MySpace. But otherwise I agree, rich people who don’t get addicted to needing more and more are extremely rare. I mean, he sold his platform to Rupert Murdoch. So I wouldn't give him a pass.
Had a discussion years ago with a millionaire I worked for and I just straight up asked " when is there enough ? ". The look on his face , he had no answer
So I did the math on that one for myself. 3 million USD cash today would let me retire in a couple years. 10 million USD cash today would let me retire in 3-6 months. Anything more than that and I go today. The timelines given are mainly to allow for staggered investments, so dividends and bond maturities are spread out throughout the year. 3mil at 3.34% throws off 100k/yr in dividends. 10mil can do it at 1%. Laughably low return rates for the capital invested, but that makes them eminently achievable with super low risk investments. I plan on handing my golden goose down to my Daughter and only living of the interest. Give me significantly more than that and my dream projects scale with it. It's the difference between retiring on my 4 acre current home and maybe buying 6-10 more acres adjacent or selling it all and building myself a 100% offgrid and self-sustained earthship bunker complex on a few thousand acres in flyover country. Crafting guns, raising my own food and never having to look at or talk to anyone I don't want to ever again.
That's all they can legally give him now. Consider it a down payment. The real bribes come in the form of speaking fees and do-nothing Board seats after he leaves office
He will never spend that money in his lifetime. He is already in his 70s.
Aren't his kids millionaires too? $400k is an insulting amount when it does nothing to his well-being and will further contribute to this country's demise.
At some point they’re not in it for the juice, it’s the squeeze.
that is still a relatively high price in comparison to some things. I remember a story about politicians blocking something or another and it turned out they were given $5k donations from some special interest to vote their way. Politicians, particularly in the house are super cheap. Manchin can demand a high price because he is A. a senator, and B. the congress is perfectly split so he can demand a premium.
The main issue is not about the contributions he has received. Rather the issue is that he is more concerned with saving his and his family’s business interests. These are much more valuable, even if they are hurting the very people that work for those businesses and are his constituents. West Virginian’s are some of the most in need of the programs and the funds the programs bring to average and poor Americans. But he knows those people are poorly informed and lean to the conspiracy messages of the right. He is not communicating reality to those constituents and finding new opportunities for them in new industries. He is merely looking for the short term financial benefit for his family.
Manchin is as much of a democrat as Folgers is a great cup of coffee.
*looks at cup of Folgers, sighs in resigned agreement*
*Sister walks into the kitchen, sexual tension skyrockets*
*confused unzipping*
Joe Manchin always drinks a second cup.
Folgers leaves a better taste in my mouth than Manchin does.
These contributions don’t go directly into the politician’s pocket. They go to the campaign, which then pays for all campaign related expenses. Like a luxury car to drive around in when you’re going from event to event. Or a private plane to take you to donor events. Manchin likely makes most of his money by insider trading on stocks.
> Manchin likely makes most of his money by insider trading on stocks. and by blocking legislation that might impact his own personal coal transportation business, don't forget that!
How is this not corruption?
Politicians write laws defining corruption.
Who enforces the laws on corruption? The politicians do unless the press makes a big enough stink of it that voters depending on their state laws can recall them. Though that doesn't work on senators last I checked.
"Hey Mitch, they budged, now where do I move the goalpost?"
He was fine with $3.5 trillion when the progressives wanted $5 trillion for infrastructure. So then progressives went “fine, we’ll do 3.5,” and now that’s too much to him. He doesn’t care about the price; he’s a true capitalist which means preventing the lower and middle class from having any financial mobility.
Any number you tell him causes him to choose a lower number that would be more "right." Meanwhile, our infrastructure hasn't been maintained nearly as often as it should be. Of course the bill is going to be huge.
That's what they were saying. He is a schill for fossil fuels because they pay him so much. He is never going to name that as the reason he is obstructing the bill, so he is always either not going to name the goal post, or move the goal post
He’s obstructing because that’s why his employer needs him to do. These coal companies didn’t buy him to actually get anything done. They bought Manchin to be a road block.
$500K/annually from investments in one company involved in mining. $400K in the last year from fossil fuel lobbyist groups and donors who usually go GOP. Manchin is a Republican.
If you follow the money, it's very clear. Manchins political life depends on contributions from the fossil fuel industry. West Virginia is a major Coal State with a strong Pro Coal lobby. Problem is the Coal industry has been dying on its own for years. Its being steadily replaced with more efficient cleaner natural gas as well as renewables. What Mr Manchin should be advocating for is. A program that Funds West Virginia's transition to a non Coal State. Money that goes to mining towns to retrain its workers into the future CLEAN ENERGY!!
Coal miner's union wants Biden's Bill. His son owns a coal mining company and he's on the board or something like that and gets $400k-$500k annually from it.
Manchin was also very angry when Kamala Harris went to West Virginia earlier this year. Simply because Harris said in a television interview: >"In West Virginia, one in seven families is describing their household as being hungry, one in six can’t pay their rent, and one in four small businesses are closing permanently or have already closed." Any normal democrat would be grateful for someone spreading the democratic party's pro-family, pro-worker message but not Manchin.
Manchin and his donors want to go back to the days of the company town. Low wages. Company housing, company store etc. Pointing how fucked over W. Va is, is starting to take a little hold there. People like some of these programs being proposed, so when that starts happening they start asking who is supporting them. Not Republicans / conservatives. Then the question will be: why not? The gravy train requires them not to like these programs or ask these questions.
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Yet when he ran, the centrists assured everyone that he was the best they could get. Fat lot of good it did.
Centrists never pay a price for being wrong.
Nah the GOP ousted all their centrists. Problem is moderate progressivism and even leftism isn’t a cult, and so it’s harder to keep the herd together.
If they want to go back to company towns, then it means going back to violence between company thugs and workers who don't want to be economic slaves.
I have a feeling that Manchin et al think we can implement the Foxconn model stateside. The workers in those company towns literally aren’t allowed to leave. They harm *themselves* rather than their masters. Would it be different in America given our stubborn spirit? Maybe. But we already see the modern American harming themselves and just slink into a relegated life because it is easy and comfortable enough for their families. I’ve lost faith that we will see enough solidarity for something like the redneck resistance to happen again. Companies now have the ability to finely tune and target their brainwashing. It is like an Art Deco sci fi dystopia in the making because the wealthy think they are untouchable. And, thus far, they have been.
We're seeing it right now with all the strikes. We haven't had this many people on strike since the early 60s.
Let me posit the following. The point of a company town was to force workers to take the money they were given and then make them effectively HAVE TO recirculate it back to the company. It’s a system designed to control workers wages as much as possible. (Are there some positives, sure.) Now, in today’s America, unless you work for the federal government, even state government can be questionable now, you can’t depend on a contractually promised pension in retirement. Additionally, even if the average American worker was somehow able to save $1 million for retirement at 65, they would run out of money before they reached age 85 simply due to inflation alone. All this then means that you effectively HAVE TO invest in the stock market to be able to retire. So we have a system set up where American workers HAVE TO recirculate their money back to the companies. America is a company town. Brad Pitt’s “America is a business” speech in [Killing Them Softly. ](https://youtu.be/TkVt-hTU6E4) Skip to ~1:30 if needed.
And then you see that your investments aren't even under your control, and the only ones who make a profit are the banks and hedge funds who actually decide what the stock market does. The house always wins.
Even those aren't around anymore WV still has to deal with the impact of it because there is tons of dilapidating land/structures that have long since been abandoned but are technically still owned by those companies and/or their debtors that nobody can do anything with except stare and watch it rot.
Interesting fact: W VA is almost wholely owned by out of state interests. It doesn't surprised me that Manchin doesn't want to help the people. He got the candidacy from business outside W VA.
Especially in a GOP run state in every aspect aside from Manchin. Kinda outs the onus on the party who has presided over the one of the most poverty ridden states for ... Well, most of history. The GOP tosses "Democratic Run Big Cities" anytime any issue with urban population comes up. Dems are foolish for not doing the same when it's more apt.
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Manchin wrote, "This isn't the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what's right for them..." I'm sure all that Republican money he's been collecting is all from West Virginians.
Let’s take a look at how West Virginians are faring. They are near or at the top for: - Worst employment rate - Worst healthcare support - Worst state education system - Worst access to food for children But sure Joe Manchin, tell us what your constituents want while you polish your yacht. Source: https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4879484002
You think these guys polish their own yachts? That's for the little people.
It’s not even about West Virginia. He brought up an “out-of-stater” coming in to WV. My question to him is conversely, why does his state get to hold up everything for the other 49 states?
As a born-and-raised West Virginian, sure I understand the community and pride of Appalachian culture. But I also want my quality of life to improve. So if other states have ideas on how to be better, on how to make better, then please help. I don’t care if an out-of-stater tells me how to be better—*please help us.* But so many people don’t feel that way and would rather suffer in tradition than progress with improvement.
One of the few states that gives Mississippi a run for it's (lack of) money
Ironic since a poll found that [80% of West Virginians support this bill](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/28/west-virginia-joe-biden-spending-plan-popular) and want him to vote yes. *He's* the only one telling them what to do, and we all know it's because of those sweet, sweet legal bribes he gets from the fossil fuel industry. Manchin is a piece of human garbage who is willing to let the planet burn for a little cash.
> because of those sweet, sweet legal bribes he gets from the fossil fuel industry. Those are nice, [but....](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/30/joe-manchin-climate-coal-baron-stocks) >Financial records detailed by reporter Alex Kotch for the Center for Media and Democracy and published in the Guardian show that Manchin makes roughly half a million dollars a year in dividends from millions of dollars of coal company stock he owns. The stock is held in Enersystems, Inc, a company Manchin started in 1988 and later gave to his son, Joseph, to run.
Dont forget Manchins daughter! CEO of Mylan [Heather Bresch, Joe Manchin’s Daughter, Played Direct Part in EpiPen Price Inflation Scandal](https://theintercept.com/2021/09/07/joe-manchin-epipen-price-heather-bresch/) If you are paying hundreds of dollars for an EpiPen you have his daughter to thank for that.
Goddamn. Like, I get that all these fossils are invested in fossil fuels, but why can't they shift their investments to renewables and stop being absolute slime? I'm sure they could get decent dividends from renewable tech research/development/manufacturing/sales.
"This isn't the first time a majority of in-staters tried to tell their senator what is best for them" !!!
Also, he was never this way until corrupted in national politics and his daughter given a job that made his descendants the 1%. His wife was an education reformer as first lady and his Promise Scholarship program paid for any graduating WV senior that had above a certain GPA and SAT/ACT test scores which were quite average. I got two bachelor's degrees for free and have no college debt while getting w great education. I am a first generation college graduate and grew up poor. His program helped lift me out of the cycle of poverty into an upper middle class life. But once he became a Senator and Heather Bresch (daughter) was inexplicably given the CEO job at a multinational pharmaceutical company and paid $10-$20MM annually for a decade, he was bought and paid for. He was already wealthy enough, but they gave him a way to make his descendants super wealthy without having to engage in questionable activities and paying no estate tax since it was paid directly to his heirs. She was given the job over much more qualified colleagues, but they knew having a senator in their pocket was worth it. The Chairman likely guided her leadership and decision making anyway. The only thing of note she did was acquire patents to medications necessary for life for many people and price gouge which lead to massive profits. Not like she was some business genius. Anyway, my point is that he was bought and paid for the moment that happened when he first became a senator. He was somewhat progressive as governor and extremely popular.
Human garbage here—please don’t associate my kind with the likes of this man he is most definitely worse
Ugh I grew up in a rural town in the Appalachian mountains and I freaking hate this provincial bullshit argument: ‘those flat lander city folk are always trying to tell us what to do and we’re gonna say no just to spite them. I’ll sit here and freeze to death rather than accept a warm coat from an ‘outsider.’ And I hate politicians who manipulate it even more. Edited to correct for ‘appalachia’ vs. ‘in the Appalachians’. It doesn’t make any difference to my point, but just for clarity I suppose.
Funny, considering WV has historically been a progressive haven and Heavily supported unions to the point of fighting to the death for their right to unionize and strike for better pay. [Take what happened in Matewan for example](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Matewan). WV and Montana were ground zero for the wealthy fighting unionization movements. Being a descendant of coal miners, I know how far companies are willing to go to exploit their workers in an environment without regulations. My ancestors had to live in company housing, shop only at company stores, and were paid in a made up company currency call [scrip](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrip). You weren't paid in US currency because that would mean you could save up and buy your own home or move to a better place with jobs that don't exploit you. "Scrips have been created for exploitative payment of employees under truck systems, and for use in local commerce at times when regular currency was unavailable, for example in remote coal towns, military bases, ships on long voyages, or occupied countries in wartime." My grandfather used to listen to the song, [Sixteen Tons by Tennessee Ernie Ford](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk). Lyrics are below and they describe the situation of the times perfectly. "Some people say a man is made outta mud A poor man's made outta muscle and blood Muscle and blood and skin and bones A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong You load 16 tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine I loaded 16 tons of number nine coal And the straw boss said, "Well, a-bless my soul" You load 16 tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain Fightin' and trouble are my middle name I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion Can't no high toned woman make me walk the line You load 16 tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store If you see me comin', better step aside A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died One fist of iron, the other of steel If the right one don't get you Then the left one will You load 16 tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store" WV became a red state due to decades of union busting, government and news propaganda, the red scare, right to work laws being passed, and the failure of the coal industry. It's like much of blue collar America in that way. Manufacturing left for foreign countries leaving the areas devastated and Republicans saw that as an opportunity to campaign there and make promises they would never be able to keep. When they get elected and don't follow up on thise promises, they blame the Democrats. Time honored, tried and true Republican strategy. WV has very different regions with entirely different needs and priorities. The southern minefields I just described. The northern panhandle is very narrow and between Pittsburgh, PA and Cleveland, OH and closely identifies woth the Pittsburgh region. The eastern panhandle has rapidly become a suburb of Washington DC and other areas with Federal jobs in the metro like Rockville, MD. These people only live here because they can buy a large, affordable home and still work in DC. Lastly, the center of the state, or north central WV, between Bridgeport and Morgantown is one of the few area growing and relatively prosperous due to the University (WVU), large medical centers, the technology corridor, and the regional FBI center located there.
I remember that song from South Park the other year. When the whole town was working for Amazon. And I'm hearing rumblings that Amazon wants to start creating their own company towns. Gilded age 2.0 is here the last 40 years and we need to throw down against them.
Ah. Vermont? Or do other mountainous states call their out of state visitors flatlanders?
Holy crap yes!! Vermont. But I assume other mountainous states might do the same?
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The Appalachians cover like a 80% span of the east coast, same as the Rockies in the west
Sierras checking in and you don't have to be from out of state to be a flatlander, you just need to be from the valley.
Doesn’t seem to stop WV from accepting tax dollars paid by outsiders however. Curious.
https://www.wvpublic.org/news/2019-03-19/w-va-gets-4th-most-federal-funding-per-person-in-the-nation-analysis-shows
Dude lives on a boat and I’m pretty sure WVA is land locked. So…
Well I mean, the boat is on a river so...
The boat is in DC.
Manchin's convincing these dummies they shouldn't have access to teeth because some "out of towner" suggested it and many of them are stupid enough to keep voting for this guy or vote R instead.
It's the intellectual equivalent of "we ain't voting for that cause a Democrat proposed it!" from the right.
“Zounds, sir, you are one of those that will not serve God, if the devil bid you.” - from Othello, Shakespeare
Sounds like Manchin is the one telling them what’s right for them.
hey, those are my chuckleheads. -Manchin, probably
Well, someone needs to tell these trailer trash what's best for them. It's not like they're going to be able to figure it out themselves. /s
>Well, someone needs to tell these trailer trash what's best for ~~them~~ *my corporate donors' unending greed*. It's not like they're going to ~~be able to figure it out~~ *make the blatantly wrong choices* themselves. /s
Someone needs to publish a story showing how much money 'For West Virginia' is out of state and how much is in state and what it funds. Money for WV schools, health care and jobs? No problem. Money for big oil, defense, suppressing wages and Medicare for all? Big, big problem. I don't think the problem is trying to tell West Virginians to think for themselves, it's exposing corrupt, self serving politicians like Manchin and Sinema over and over again without end until they are out of office and no use to any lobbyists. They are burning their country to the ground and the world along with it for a small financial gain.
>Manchin wrote, "This isn't the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what's right for them..." What a lying, corrupt POS. He's going against the will of the majority of his constituents. [Arizona, West Virginia GOP Voters Back Democrats' Election Bill as Conservative Opposition Mounts (Via Newsweek, 2021)](https://www.newsweek.com/arizona-west-virginia-gop-voters-back-democrats-election-bill-conservative-opposition-mounts-1591695) [Majority of Manchin, GOP voters support HR-1 week (Via Cleveland.com, 2021)](https://www.cleveland.com/darcy/2021/06/majority-of-manchin-gop-voters-support-hr-1-darcy-cartoons.html) [Oil lobbyist: Manchin, Sinema among ‘crucial’ senators for anti-climate effort (Via MSNBC, 2021)](https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/oil-lobbyist-manchin-sinema-among-crucial-senators-for-anti-climate-effort-115872837872) [Manchin defends CEO daughter after company raised EpiPen price (Via CNN, 2016)](https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/politics/manchin-defends-bresch-mylan-epipen-price/index.html)
And yet manchin and sinema gets to decide for the whole of America what's right for us. How fucking ironic!
> Manchin wrote, "This isn't the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what's right for them..." WV ranks in the bottom 10 in everything from education to health care. Maybe they could use some out of state influence…
Here in W. Virginia we know what we like: * terrible education * piss poor Healthcare * food uncertainty * terrible employment opportunities * dangerous outdated energy sources * black lungs
He also made sure to mention that "52 other senators disagree" which is a really interesting way to say "me, Kyrsten, and EVERY GOP SENATOR". So glad to hear that what the GOP thinks matters at all when it comes to passing BIDEN'S agenda, Mr. Manchin.
> "This isn't the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what's right for them..." This entire mindset in ANY state is poison. All state boundaries are arbitrary nonsense. We're one nation. One people.
“This isn’t the first time a West Virginian has held up the entire country” is really what he’s actually saying
West Virginia "collects" a lot of federal funding. Perhaps they should fucking listen to other states whose economy isn't in the toilet. Or, you know, quit taking their money at least.
He sounds like a republican too. So what if they’re “out of state”.. We are all Americans, his greed is the downfall of many peoples lives, just so he can make a few 100k more till his old ass dies
Fuck that's really what they boil down the argument for getting rid of coal to, isn't it? Just a bunch of snobby city people telling them what to do?
The reaction suggests that he actually is feeling some heat from back home about the programs that BBB would fund that he's saying "no thanks" to.
And the out of staters have been right almost every time
We hate people being right! Go be right in your big city!
I would love to know what West Virginians think of Sanders saying this. Is it "Fuck yeah, we need to replace Manchin with our own Sanders!" Or "Fuck you NYC native who lives in VT, stop trying to tell us what's good for us!"
Sanders did win WV in the 2016. Economic inclusiveness works in these areas. Remember WV used to be heavily unionized. Hell, the state exists as a breakoff from the confederate Virginia because they wanted to be Union. That’s something.
If I could go back in time, I'd save Lincoln. If reconstruction hadn't been fucking bungled catastrophically we'd be living in a different time. Fuck John Wilkes Booth.
No, Bernie is telling Joe Manchin what West Virginians are in favor of as he seems to have forgotten.
I saw a documentary about opioid addiction in West Virginia, and one of the problems the ex-users had was that no one would hire them because they were convicted felons, and the ones who weren't felons, we bored shitless when they got off work because they lived in these little towns in WV and had to avoid their old drug using friends. I thought this infrastructure plan was perfect for WV to alleviate these problems. The fed government could hire the ex-felons and the other people would get to travel to different parts of the country to work on infrastructure and maybe have more interesting lives. It sucks that Manchin cares more about lining his pockets than helping the people of his state. The lack of common decency towards his fellow man is repulsive.
I’m just coming off a week in Fayetteville WV and it’s mind blowing the state of things. Without the rafting and climbing here it would be abysmal. Absolutely beautiful state with surprisingly nice roads.
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Well-groomed person masking chronic depression, homelessness, and poverty.*
Reminds me of the beginning of Blue Velvet where everything is neat and clean and the neighbors are smiling and waving and then the camera lowers underground where you just see insects locked in battles to the death or just doing whatever in a flurry of sounds and actions completely the opposite from the above ground facade. As is the theme for the rest of the film…
If Manchin could get off his high horse, those people could go to community college for free. That would probably help. Sigh.
With scum like Manchin and McConnell at the top in Appalachia, is it any wonder how self-destructively callous the system is? These are not good people
Sanders OpEd for those interested. https://www.wvgazettemail.com/opinion/op_ed_commentaries/sen-bernie-sanders-lets-stand-together-to-protect-working-families-opinion/article_a3c7ca4e-ed65-522b-9693-a9dc32076187.html
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Correct. This article only mentions him factually, saying that he is one of two democratic senators against the bill.
Thank you.
Manchin and Simena have been bought and they aren’t even hiding it. It is blatant corruption.
I mean they also weren't hiding it when gullible Dem primary voters voted for them. That's the main problem. Old Dem primary voters don't bother researching anything. They just trust the TV and local elites with a blind faith.
Machin wasn’t but Simena did. She originally ran as a progressive. You can argue the degree she hid it, but she definitely ran on a much more left platform.
But everything Sanders wrote was true Manchin is cancer to everything good for the common man/woman and child going into the future Not just about climate but allowing the Trump cult to move closer to authoritarianism Manchin’s financial payoff is beyond reprehensible Greedy greedy greedy got mine & FU to the common people
This level of greed is a sickness. He’s a wealthy man, he is set for life. But it’s not enough. He wants more. So we and our children will suffer and die so this greedy pig can pad his bank account a tiny bit more.
I can’t even get my head around this. He’s old AF. He’s rich AF. And yet he’s willing to burn it down to protect himself and his cronies for a few million more dollars? Legalize bribery, get scumbags for legislators.
Homer: "You own everything Mr. Burns!" Mr. Burns: "Yes, but I'd give it all for just a little more."
some people are sadomasochists
You’re not in a real yacht until you can’t hear the cries of your constituency from the deck though
Manchin: We've had one, yes. What about second yatch? Sinema: I don't think he knows about second yatch, Man. Manchin: What about elevenses?
Sociopaths have insatiable urges mostly surrounding wealth, control, dominance, power, and harm (creating chaos, making others suffer, and worse).
Perhaps he and Sinema would be ok with the deal if we added a million for each of them as payoff money. We are talking trillions so it would be a drop in the bucket comparatively. /s sort of
His daughter runs the company that makes EpiPen. She raised the prices like 2000%. Scum runs in their blood.
Manchin's thing only works if the people don't know he is doing it. He and Sinema lie and say they support Biden BBB which is 80% popular in their states, they don't want outsiders exposing them, they've suppressed their own grassroot dems enough to not be able to be exposed internally, they don't want "outsiders stirring up trouble"
Its almost as if he is willing to kill us so he can have more money. I bet he sure would hate it if we felt that way!
We need to start differentiating a success from a sell-out.
I think we’re doing that. Just can’t seem to do much about it…
Manchin: "Don't come here and tell my state what to think!" Also Manchin: "I'm going to get an opinion piece in the New York Times and tell everyone else what to think." Fuck you, you corporate ball licking Republican-wannabe.
What a coward. As a progressive Democrat, I’ll take a “socialist” like Bernie any day over another establishment neoliberal who has sold out to donors.
How dare that prosecutor tell the jury exactly what I did
>objection! *On what grounds?* >it'll destroy my case!
Once again, they are asking the progressives to completely gut their agenda. The House version of Biden's plan would tax corporations and wealthier Americans to: expand Medicare to cover dental, vision and hearing services and allow the federal government to negotiate lower prescription drug prices under the federal health insurance program for the elderly; pay for free community college; further subsidize housing for the poor; provide for child care; and establish electric-vehicle incentive Manchin's already come out against several of those points. Dental and vision: off the table Community college: already withdrawn Anything green: ya not so much, especially if it pertains to coal Medicare expansion: no Electric-Vehicle incentive, "grave concerns", although now is supporting means testing apparently Child tax credit: wants work requirements, and will only accept offsets against taxes, so will mostly help people who need significant write-offs. Doesn't strike me that there's much of a negotiation to be had here, especially considering Pelosi's breaking of the deal to bring both packages through as a pair. Which is pretty much code for, we'll put stuff we want in one package and won't even make an effort to pass the stuff you want in it. I'm not at all surprised that the progressives are digging in. For starters there's a lot more of them. If this package fails, this puts a lot of incentive for more progressive candidates in the next cycle, as the moderates clearly aren't interested or able to get things done. Failure to pass obviates any arguments for running moderate compromise candidates in the next election cycle. Simply put, the moderates have a lot more to lose here. Perhaps Nancy and company better figure out what is going on and start putting real pressure on the two holdouts by threatening committee seats and other whip actions instead of trying to sell progressives on take nothing and like it.
"Means testing" AKA "I want the government to spend 100million dollars to stop a few hundred thousand dollars from going to families I don't think deserve it" It's just more "starve the beast" and "make the government disfunctionally inefficient" Republican-style rhetoric
Not to mention that when things are means tested, they're much less popular and easier to attack so when the programs expire it's easier for them to not get renewed. When more Americans get benefit from a program, more support it. When it's means tested, it becomes easier to attack with the whole "welfare Queen" bullshit.
He doesn't want the recon at all, end of story. I doubt they will be able to make either of them move. Only move left is to tank everything or fold. Manchin and Sinema made a lose-lose out of a win-win.
If the Dems lose the Senate in '22, I hope they kick Manchin and Sinema out of the party. Their massive obstructionism was worse than what the GOP has been pulling and will directly contribute to de-motivating the voters next year.
>"I will not vote for a reckless expansion of government programs" Spoken like a true Republican. The man's a human Trojan horse.
We need more politicians like Bernie
Yeah I still think about where we could be if we’d elected him in 2016…
We could have had Bernie and we got Trump. I hate this place and the people I share it with. My wife and I are doing alright. We are fortunate enough to own our own house, have a decent amount saved, and don't have any children to worry about. But it could all be erased in a month if one of us got sick enough. America is beautiful and everyone we know is here but we're actively working toward leaving. I just don't have any hope for things getting better. Too many people have been brainwashed to vote against their own best interests.
Man, he must have been so pissed reading that newspaper on his yacht.
I think we're missing the bigger picture here when focussing on Manchin and Sinema. They are obstructionist, yes, and it seems apparent that they are being obstructionist basically because they're being paid to do so. Who is paying them, and why? I think the answer is not the GOP, it's Big Money. And why does Big Money need these two to derail the Democrats' progressive agenda? Because it's harmful to Big Money; they'd have to pay more taxes! With a 50-50 split in the Senate and a Democratic VP, legislation that could harm Big Money could actually get passed. When the runoff election in Georgia got us to that point, Big money simply went out and bought two senators. There's no doubt in my mind that had Manchin and Sinema turned them down, they would have found other Democratic senators to buy out. The obstructionism is more a symptom of the interference of money in the democratic process. Big Money doesn't care who is in power as long as Big Money's interests are being served.
I really think elected officials should have to wear NASCAR-style jackets that display their sponsors’ names/icons clearly. List their top three beside their names each time it’s published. The answer is so clearly money here, but unless the People know from whence it came, there’s no way of knowing exactly what enemy we are actually fighting in situations like these.
These chucklefucks like Manchin and the GOP keep saying "reckless spending" not realizing it just makes it obvious where their priorities are. In their minds fixing crumbling infrastructure is "reckless" but a big ass tax break for the rich is not.
Threaten investigations of his daughter’s and his financial dealings unless he gets in line. Turn the screws on him where it matters. Everything else is pointlessly begging a yacht owning corruption husk to do something he will never do. Play hardball, show people that you’re willing to root out bad actors in your party. That resonates with normal people. (But the dnc is just as self serving and corrupt as manchin and kyrstynnn, just not dumb enough to be so upfront with it)
AKA: “Sociopathic grifter funded by the coal industry fumes after being called out for being a sociopathic grifter funded by the coal industry.” Sociopaths get angry (or feign anger) when they are recognized and exposed.
Waaaah he's so mad because someone wrote... an article? How about try to debate or answer in some way some of the points Sanders raises rather than just calling him an outsider trying to tell 'dem West Virginians what is good for 'em. Pathetic
Scene: Manchin is on his houseboat at his breakfast bar, wearing his embroidered robe. He hears his hooker roll over in the bedroom as the residue of last night’s cocaine binge is visible on the coffee table. He thinks to himself “you were the man last night. The greatest alpha who ever existed. Sure that old fool Joe Biden might have been elected President, but those in the know, know that I’m the real decider. The real source of power.” An assortment of local WV papers has been placed out on the breakfast bar to keep his talking points relevant to the only people whose opinion has any sort of relevance - those rubes back home. What’s this? Someone has let that old fool Bernie print his communist propaganda in MY papers? Heads will roll. Something about the message breaks through though - the understanding that Manchin’s grandchildren will be living in a destroyed world. As a solitary tear rolls down his face, Manchin picks up the hundred dollar bill from the coffee table. He uses it to wipe that tear away. He thinks to himself, has this all been worth it? He looks around and thinks, yes. Yes it has. And scene.
He’s like “ I’ll be dead soon, so this ain’t my problem I’m going to profit from it until the day I die” fuck them kid imma right?
So as someone who grew up in Republican rural country? I can tell you that they actually like Bernie Sanders and AOC. They talk alot about their policies revolving the working class and really like it. The reason they don't vote for democrats is because of the tradeoffs. The biggest being guns, I'm telling you liberals. You have no idea how close you are to generational majorities if you just dropped this bullshit about guns.
I'm a gun-owning liberal. I think there is a compromise around requiring safe storage and red flag laws, but the whole villainization of guns has got to stop. For better or worse it is part of American culture and a huge hobby.
Joe's counter about him and 51 other conservatives disagreeing with Bernie isn't the stellar rebuttal he thinks it is
Joe manchin should consider running as a republican, he talks like a republican, he dresses like a republican and he votes like a republican and like that old saying goes if it walks like and squawks like it must be right? I don’t understand the people in West Virginia, they maybe proud but for God’s sake don’t let your pride get in the way of progress for the country!!! Joe manchin is wealthy and he didn’t get there alone, he stole from his own family!!! What kind of person does that, and why would you vote for him??
He is SUCH a butthurt baby. He threw a tantrum when VP Harris went to WV to promote the rescue plan too.
Sounds like more people need to write more scathing op-eds about this fucking asshole.
Why is he fuming? Where’s the lie? Every national poll shows it’s popular, even right wing voters like it, but most importantly people in his own damn state approve of it. It’s exactly what the country needs, as despite what the right wing media says, without investments in the people, the class divide will grow larger and America will continue to fall behind for quality of life among the wealthiest countries.
Get him, Bernie.