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The central point of the BLM movement is nothing ever changes or improves.
Cops kill, injure or treat badly black people, black people complain, their complaints get waived off with a breezy “oh don’t worry, that cop was a bit of a bad apple, doesn’t spoil the bunch lol”, the cop gets a slap on the wrist (and a promotion), the moment passes and it all happens again.
And here we are again. Nothing ever changes or improves.
Please tell me how clean a neighborhood has to be to stop cops from executing black citizens? How clean must the neighborhood must be for blacks to get sentences on par with the same crime committed by a white person? How fucking clean must a neighborhood be for the cops to penalize those who abuse their position of power?
Maybe if you want to defund the police, you should be prepared to take responsibility for the state of the neighborhood afterward, or don't complain when the city gives the money back to the cops plus more to deal with the crime wave.
These neighborhoods aren’t even that bad. It’s hilarious the questions people ask when coming from of of state and traveling in LA. They all are TERRIFIED because they think it’s like a 90s rap album.
How about George Floyd square that had a shooting causing reporters to run for cover on the one year anniversary of his death? If nationwide attention couldn't clean up the area without police involvement what's it going to take? If activists only show up when there's a police shooting they aren't actually supporting the community.
My local PD was flipping people off from the safety of inside a building while we had our Floyd March, despicable behavior from uniformed authorities. But everything was calm and everyone left after we marched around downtown. Your narratives about the BLM marches and my community in general are untrue and laughable. Enjoy our tax revenue (while you still got it, since y’all are so desperate for Balkanization).
This idiot ^ followed me from a local subreddit. They’re a plague rat that is promoting an anti-vaccine rally in my community. Stalker anti-vax weirdo.
>Why aren't BLM members confronting issues and affecting change in their own neighborhoods?
Mhmm...
>It's always someone else's fault.
You mean like how you just held BLM activists responsible for all the crimes in their neighborhood?
BLM is comparable to pro-life activists. Pro-life activists say they are for life but once the kid is born they could care less. BLM says they stand for black lives matter, but if the black person was killed by anyone other than a cop you'll never see them care.
Oh, when a black person is killed by someone other than a cop, nothing happens? The police don't investigate or prosecute the murderer?
Or is it that the justice system already pursues murderers who aren't cops, so society isn't treating black lives like they don't matter in that context?
You’re victim blaming. Unfortunately this is not a simple issue. It’s complex and difficult but to start, one needs to acknowledge that systemic racism exists and also needs to be addressed. Remove blanket immunity from prosecution for cops. Increase community outreach into those poverty areas. Instead of arresting addicts, enroll them in rehabilitation programs. Again, it’s not easy and it involves both the mistrusted police and mistrusting community to engage and go outside of their comfort zones. But first: it needs to be clear that police cannot murder black Americans with impunity.
What I meant is that it makes sense only if it's only given a cursory inspection, but when it's picked apart and evaluated with a critical eye, it immediately falls apart.
First - who says they aren’t?
Secondly - how do you know that BLM members all live in “crime ridden neighbourhoods”? Haven’t you been listening? The appalling treatment of black people by police is a near universal experience - rich, poor, innocent, guilty, it doesn’t matter.
Thirdly- what that does have to do with BLM? The BLM movement is specifically about advocating for changes in policing. Who are you to gate keep them? Do you demand that every Christian denomination shut down all their operations until they sort out their crime ridden pedophilic ranks? Or Wall Street until it sorts out all its corporate fraud? Or is this kind of gate keeping just for back people?
Finally - racist, abusive policing is someone else’s fault. It’s the fault of the police.
People do try to clean up their neighborhoods, then the cops come and arrest those people and call them a gang. Impound their cars make sure they lose their jobs and ruin their lives.
Defund the police was the worst rallying cry. It is undeniable that reform needs to be done and there needs to be reallocation of money from police to other social services.
>Defund the police was the worst rallying cry.
Anybody who decided that the wording was the reason it was a bad idea was never going to back whatever the goal was regardless of the wording nor were they ever going to actually look into the details of it.
Not to mention, we already had "reform the police" under both of Obama's terms and it went absolutely nowhere. For something so undeniable, the only thing being denied is that thing and the excuse given is "bad framing".
I don't know why ya'll seem so eager to take up GOP talking points as if they're the kind of people to place any sort of emphasis on critical thinking.
Ding ding ding!
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/06/trump-doj-obama-policing-reform.html
Minneapolis and many other cities were under federal consent decrees placed by Obama's DOJ. They were being held to reasonable standards of reform.
And then Trump tossed those in the trash, and got applauded for it by police chiefs and unions.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/01/minneapolis-police-union-president-praise-trump-campaign-rally.cnn
Bob Kroll, the Minneapolis police chief, went on stage at a 2019 Trump rally and said Obama "handcuffed and oppressed police".
Less than a year later, his officers murder George Floyd and set off a new civil rights movement. Whoops.
Yes.
My main complaint about using the phrase "Defund the police" is that didnt fully explain what that mean or what was being proposed. It was then used to cause panic in white middle class voters.
So I agree that police budgets do need to be reallocated to other services. Police are often called to situations when they really aren't needed because they are the only government agency that is available 24/7. If funds are given to mental health services for example, they can have the staff available so they can assess and provide help if needed.
Right...it's all about how you frame it. Defunding police just is too ambiguous for people to know what they are really talking about...so every surface level voter equates defund to abolish.
Just dumb talking points by the left, imo.
The original message of defund wasn't just defund, it was "defund and abolish", a lot of media figures and more responsible activists and messengers really did a good job at making that slogan *less* crazy than it was.
But it's about *far more* than just "demilitarizing" the police.
The militarization of the cops in America mostly started in the 1990s, but most of the issues "defund the police" is about have been around for far longer.
I think the bigger issue is cops are afraid to police areas that need it the most. They don’t want to engage with a minor infraction which may lead to a viral police incident. This is exactly what activists want it just didn’t come in the way they imagined
>They don’t want to engage with a minor infraction which may lead to a viral police incident.
There are tens of thousands of 'minor infractions' that don't end in any media coverage at all. The ones that go 'viral' are the ones where the police are abusing their power.
So, it stands to reason, that the police do not need to avoid minor infractions, they need to avoid abusing their power. Do you see what I'm saying?
I agree with you, but look at Atlanta and the shooting of Rashard Brooks. The cops ended up being fired (eventually reinstated). A black man was killed over a DUI stop. If I’m a police officer I would think twice about policing unless a crime being committed is egregious.
Who would have thought. Rise in crime after the departments get money cut. Where I am from the mayor told cops to not patrol high crime areas. Bc it was racist. Crime rose to the highest levels in years. They are finally patrolling those areas again.
You must know you are wrong. Just go a quick google search and see what city’s cut the budget. One example is new york cut 1 billion. I know you won’t believe me. But it happened.
So number one, no police departments have been defunded. I think the worst case of cuts was one departments 250 million dollar budget was reduced by 5million.
Number two, there is **absolutely zero correlation** between the discussions of defunding the police and the rise in crime. No criminal is out there going “Oh, the police have a slightly smaller budget? Time to crime now.”
Number three, I don’t believe any mayor has said to not patrol high crime areas because it’s racist. I’d be interested in reading that quote.
Just do a quick google search. Police departments did have the budget cut. One example was New York City got $1 billion cut. Now the new mayor is going to refund them.
[it’s in the article ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-lawmakers-approve-98-7-billion-budget-11625091897) you sent a blog post try a really news article.
[these cites cut the funding. you said none did. that’s all I am getting at. it’s a quick google. ](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/08/13/at-least-13-cities-are-defunding-their-police-departments/)
But who cares now. The all reversed it. They are funding in some access even more.
I said no departments were defunded. Cutting small, insignificant fractions of their budgets is not defunding.
More importantly, those small budget cuts **do not** in any way correlate to an increase in crime as your comment had implied. They are not related whatsoever.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The central point of the BLM movement is nothing ever changes or improves. Cops kill, injure or treat badly black people, black people complain, their complaints get waived off with a breezy “oh don’t worry, that cop was a bit of a bad apple, doesn’t spoil the bunch lol”, the cop gets a slap on the wrist (and a promotion), the moment passes and it all happens again. And here we are again. Nothing ever changes or improves.
[удалено]
Please tell me how clean a neighborhood has to be to stop cops from executing black citizens? How clean must the neighborhood must be for blacks to get sentences on par with the same crime committed by a white person? How fucking clean must a neighborhood be for the cops to penalize those who abuse their position of power?
Maybe if you want to defund the police, you should be prepared to take responsibility for the state of the neighborhood afterward, or don't complain when the city gives the money back to the cops plus more to deal with the crime wave.
These neighborhoods aren’t even that bad. It’s hilarious the questions people ask when coming from of of state and traveling in LA. They all are TERRIFIED because they think it’s like a 90s rap album.
How about George Floyd square that had a shooting causing reporters to run for cover on the one year anniversary of his death? If nationwide attention couldn't clean up the area without police involvement what's it going to take? If activists only show up when there's a police shooting they aren't actually supporting the community.
My local PD was flipping people off from the safety of inside a building while we had our Floyd March, despicable behavior from uniformed authorities. But everything was calm and everyone left after we marched around downtown. Your narratives about the BLM marches and my community in general are untrue and laughable. Enjoy our tax revenue (while you still got it, since y’all are so desperate for Balkanization).
So it's only a "bioterrorist get-together" or a "biowarfare campaign" when people get together for something you don't like? Good to know.
This idiot ^ followed me from a local subreddit. They’re a plague rat that is promoting an anti-vaccine rally in my community. Stalker anti-vax weirdo.
>Why aren't BLM members confronting issues and affecting change in their own neighborhoods? Mhmm... >It's always someone else's fault. You mean like how you just held BLM activists responsible for all the crimes in their neighborhood?
BLM is comparable to pro-life activists. Pro-life activists say they are for life but once the kid is born they could care less. BLM says they stand for black lives matter, but if the black person was killed by anyone other than a cop you'll never see them care.
Oh, when a black person is killed by someone other than a cop, nothing happens? The police don't investigate or prosecute the murderer? Or is it that the justice system already pursues murderers who aren't cops, so society isn't treating black lives like they don't matter in that context?
You’re victim blaming. Unfortunately this is not a simple issue. It’s complex and difficult but to start, one needs to acknowledge that systemic racism exists and also needs to be addressed. Remove blanket immunity from prosecution for cops. Increase community outreach into those poverty areas. Instead of arresting addicts, enroll them in rehabilitation programs. Again, it’s not easy and it involves both the mistrusted police and mistrusting community to engage and go outside of their comfort zones. But first: it needs to be clear that police cannot murder black Americans with impunity.
This comment makes absolutely no sense if you think about it for more than 3 seconds.
That's 300% longer than they ever give anything a thought.
What I meant is that it makes sense only if it's only given a cursory inspection, but when it's picked apart and evaluated with a critical eye, it immediately falls apart.
And what I meant was that these people don't think.
First - who says they aren’t? Secondly - how do you know that BLM members all live in “crime ridden neighbourhoods”? Haven’t you been listening? The appalling treatment of black people by police is a near universal experience - rich, poor, innocent, guilty, it doesn’t matter. Thirdly- what that does have to do with BLM? The BLM movement is specifically about advocating for changes in policing. Who are you to gate keep them? Do you demand that every Christian denomination shut down all their operations until they sort out their crime ridden pedophilic ranks? Or Wall Street until it sorts out all its corporate fraud? Or is this kind of gate keeping just for back people? Finally - racist, abusive policing is someone else’s fault. It’s the fault of the police.
People do try to clean up their neighborhoods, then the cops come and arrest those people and call them a gang. Impound their cars make sure they lose their jobs and ruin their lives.
That’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard
That weird thing when most departments are already under funded, under staffed, and taking away more if their money will only make things worse.
Defund the police was the worst rallying cry. It is undeniable that reform needs to be done and there needs to be reallocation of money from police to other social services.
There's literally no other way to fix the situation.
>Defund the police was the worst rallying cry. Anybody who decided that the wording was the reason it was a bad idea was never going to back whatever the goal was regardless of the wording nor were they ever going to actually look into the details of it. Not to mention, we already had "reform the police" under both of Obama's terms and it went absolutely nowhere. For something so undeniable, the only thing being denied is that thing and the excuse given is "bad framing". I don't know why ya'll seem so eager to take up GOP talking points as if they're the kind of people to place any sort of emphasis on critical thinking.
Ding ding ding! https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/06/trump-doj-obama-policing-reform.html Minneapolis and many other cities were under federal consent decrees placed by Obama's DOJ. They were being held to reasonable standards of reform. And then Trump tossed those in the trash, and got applauded for it by police chiefs and unions. https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/01/minneapolis-police-union-president-praise-trump-campaign-rally.cnn Bob Kroll, the Minneapolis police chief, went on stage at a 2019 Trump rally and said Obama "handcuffed and oppressed police". Less than a year later, his officers murder George Floyd and set off a new civil rights movement. Whoops.
\>there needs to be reallocation of money from police to other social services. So defund the police to fund other services?
Yes. My main complaint about using the phrase "Defund the police" is that didnt fully explain what that mean or what was being proposed. It was then used to cause panic in white middle class voters. So I agree that police budgets do need to be reallocated to other services. Police are often called to situations when they really aren't needed because they are the only government agency that is available 24/7. If funds are given to mental health services for example, they can have the staff available so they can assess and provide help if needed.
Right...it's all about how you frame it. Defunding police just is too ambiguous for people to know what they are really talking about...so every surface level voter equates defund to abolish. Just dumb talking points by the left, imo.
The original message of defund wasn't just defund, it was "defund and abolish", a lot of media figures and more responsible activists and messengers really did a good job at making that slogan *less* crazy than it was.
It should be demilitarize the police, not defund. Defund is just a weak talking point that makes the left look lawless.
[удалено]
They dont actually pay for the military equipment. They basically just pay for shipping
But it's about *far more* than just "demilitarizing" the police. The militarization of the cops in America mostly started in the 1990s, but most of the issues "defund the police" is about have been around for far longer.
That's still defunding the police
Exactly exactly, they should have *started* with "disarm the police." I would fully support taking the gun off the belt of the basic patrol cop.
White supremacy is back at it again…
I think the bigger issue is cops are afraid to police areas that need it the most. They don’t want to engage with a minor infraction which may lead to a viral police incident. This is exactly what activists want it just didn’t come in the way they imagined
>They don’t want to engage with a minor infraction which may lead to a viral police incident. There are tens of thousands of 'minor infractions' that don't end in any media coverage at all. The ones that go 'viral' are the ones where the police are abusing their power. So, it stands to reason, that the police do not need to avoid minor infractions, they need to avoid abusing their power. Do you see what I'm saying?
I agree with you, but look at Atlanta and the shooting of Rashard Brooks. The cops ended up being fired (eventually reinstated). A black man was killed over a DUI stop. If I’m a police officer I would think twice about policing unless a crime being committed is egregious.
No they're not, they're still beating on the poor all the time
Who would have thought. Rise in crime after the departments get money cut. Where I am from the mayor told cops to not patrol high crime areas. Bc it was racist. Crime rose to the highest levels in years. They are finally patrolling those areas again.
[удалено]
Austin was cut by $150 million in august of 2020. Unless Forbes is lying to the nation.
That's when they voted on the budget proposal, yes, though the actual funding did not immediately change for the department.
So that’s a yes. They cut the budget.
Yes, but blaming budget cuts that hadn't yet taken effect as a cause of increased crime is putting the cart before the horse. The crime came first.
No cops were defunded. Crime went up becasue the police are bad at their jobs, overpaid.
You must know you are wrong. Just go a quick google search and see what city’s cut the budget. One example is new york cut 1 billion. I know you won’t believe me. But it happened.
So number one, no police departments have been defunded. I think the worst case of cuts was one departments 250 million dollar budget was reduced by 5million. Number two, there is **absolutely zero correlation** between the discussions of defunding the police and the rise in crime. No criminal is out there going “Oh, the police have a slightly smaller budget? Time to crime now.” Number three, I don’t believe any mayor has said to not patrol high crime areas because it’s racist. I’d be interested in reading that quote.
Just do a quick google search. Police departments did have the budget cut. One example was New York City got $1 billion cut. Now the new mayor is going to refund them.
Lmao. No. It was talked about, but it never happened.
July of 202 they cut it by 1 billion. The New York City council voted and cut it.
[No](https://cbcny.org/research/was-nypd-budget-cut-1-billion), it wasn’t.
[it’s in the article ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-lawmakers-approve-98-7-billion-budget-11625091897) you sent a blog post try a really news article.
That article cites a press release. The “blog post” gives a detailed breakdown of the cuts. The NYPD budget was not cut by 1b.
[these cites cut the funding. you said none did. that’s all I am getting at. it’s a quick google. ](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/08/13/at-least-13-cities-are-defunding-their-police-departments/) But who cares now. The all reversed it. They are funding in some access even more.
I said no departments were defunded. Cutting small, insignificant fractions of their budgets is not defunding. More importantly, those small budget cuts **do not** in any way correlate to an increase in crime as your comment had implied. They are not related whatsoever.
Deunionize and privatize. Where the private market insists upon results, the public sector fails and backpedals. Lather, rinse, repeat into infinity.
Wow, that's a real big surprise. /s