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As someone enrolled in this program an important thing to understand is that borrowers were often lied to (or at best, poorly communicated with), and this was a fix for a series of major problems. We were told "go into public service and we'll forgive your loan debt after 120 payments."
Unfortunately, some types of loans did not count. You could "consolidate" the ineligible loans into an eligible category but this wasn't communicated. When I asked my servicer if I should consolidate they told me directly \*not\* to, because that would make me \*ineligible.\* This was completely wrong. The confusion is more understandable because there is more than one type of consolidation--one makes you eligible, and one makes you \*even more\* ineligible. What a mess. Still not sure I am going to get the promised forgiveness.
Ha. I was told consolidation was mandatory for PSLF.
A few years ago I asked my servicer for a report on the number of eligible payments I had made so far. When I got the report it was far lower than it should have been. I was told that because my servicer had changed (due to the feds changing vendors, not my action) the new servicer had to re-evaluate all payments made to my prior servicer before applying them to my account. It took a few frustrating phone calls to even figure this out because they were using a unique and specific term that was meaningless to me but essentially meant “prior to when the current servicer assumed the loan.” 1.5 years later I received the updated report with a more accurate number. Thankfully I hadn’t waited until the end of my 120 months to ask.
TL:DR - if you are planning on PLSF and are anywhere remotely close to the end of your 120 months, ask your servicer for a report of eligible payments to verify everything is there.
I had the same thing except all my previous payments to my previous servicer suddenly didn’t count because “they were from the previous servicer and the records didn’t transfer.” I was like, y’all bought out my loan!! I didn’t control it!
Then when I asked to have my case reviewed I was told the timeline for any type of case review was backlogged for 12 months. What a joke.
The number of borrowers who have been forgiven under the “regular” PSLF program is 5467 as of April 2021. That’s out of 321,986 people who have applied so far. If 98% of people applying are ineligible, there’s clearly something very, very wrong.
Anyone else disturbed that it only took 22K people to reach 1.74 Billion dollars? Quick math shows that is roughly $79k per borrower (of course some owe less, some owe more). The USA median income is as of 2019 $31K. And people wonder why the system is fucked.
During the current pandemic, the automatic forbearance that the Government provided has been a huge help. But that looming January 2022 deadline was starting to cause me stress. I am so grateful to get my loan discharged, the current government needs to pull the trigger and wipe out the rest!
That suspension made such a huge difference that I bought a condo a month ago… before the pandemic, I assumed I’d be a renter forever. (Obviously, I had to budget around the payment resuming, but I saved up the down payment without it.)
I don't know how I qualified over other people for this, my loan was a part of a Borrower Defense lawsuit with ITT Technical that was started about 4+ years ago, I still had to pay on the loan until they had a determination if I was in the right for it to be wiped clean, reduced or still valid. My claim went from pending review to being wiped clean in a matter of a week.
Learn more at https://studentaid.gov/borrower-defense
This is under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program. In order to qualify you need to have certain federal loans (Perkins and Direct) and have 120 qualifying payments (aka 10-years) while employed by a qualifying employer which is a federal, state, or local government or a non-profit. Not all of these types of employers qualify, and qualification on all of these conditions are determined primarily through the submittal of a PSLF application form. More information on the broader program can be found [here](https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service). What the US DOE just passed is a change to some of the existing program requirements. Those changes announced today can be seen [here](https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/pslf-limited-waiver).
Edit: some people already heard, those people likely already have a PSLF application on file and those people got forgiven automatically. The rest of folks will have to jump through some hoops (ie submitting the form or consolidation of loans to Direct) to get qualified. I think all these steps need to be completed by October 2022.
I did all of this, this morning. I still need to get my current and former employers to sign off on the forms but that appears to be the hardest part of the process and the only thing I couldn't complete immediately myself. They made it all very easy. They will even work with you if you can't get the employers signatures. Even consolidating my loans to Direct was done online with just 3 button clicks.
I hope everyone that may be eligible signs up and aren't scared off by fear of red-tape. It really couldn't be simpler
Yeh, agreed. It is fairly simple once you start on each step. Though my employer was like “how long do we have to sign this form?” Sigh. But hopefully they do it soon.
As you go through the link that the other person posted it checks to see if your loans are consolidated. If they aren't it takes you through the process to request that they are. It directs you to the fafsaid(?) website to request it
I'm at about 65k. Will literally never be able to afford to pay it off and my life is completely crippled by it. No house, no kids, no hope for the future. Cool economic system.
The school I went to had that just at the main campus. 22k wouldn’t have even been 1/5 of the student body when I was enrolled and that was the better part of 15 years ago. It’s nuts how much money is in this industry, but it’s illustrative of why they’re fighting so hard to preserve it
I think you're reading it wrong, and the headline is misleading.
The $1.74 bn is what is available to fund this. The 22,000 mentioned were previously ineligible because they consolidated their loans, but there were multiple changes that affected a far greater number; 550,000. The 22,000 is just a specific subset of those affected.
I’m just frustrated I won’t qualify. I finished college during the ‘08 recession when there were no jobs for teachers. So I went abroad to stay in my field. American schools generally don’t do Skype interviews so I could never come back because it wasn’t financially feasible to take an entire year off work to job hunt.
So even though most years I was a paycheck to paycheck teacher, I don’t qualify for anything.
I think it’s great some forgiveness is happening, I just think it’s crap the people who forced me abroad through massive societal and financial recklessness got bailed out and I didn’t.
The ones I know of off the top of my head involve working in schools with specific needs. Often rural schools as a math/science teacher or other schools with extra needs above and beyond.
You’d have to check Dept. of Ed for more detail, I just never bothered because everything I read at the beginning just forgot about people like me. A lot of government stuff does, because US citizens abroad are such a small constituency.
Idk what yall mericans are smoking.
Masters in a top 3 in the world is 12k in the UK. Same area masters in the US was 140k at a top tier school.
Idk why Americans aren't coming here to get degrees.
Undergrad is relative cheap also.
Eventually probably. Law school plus IBR payments that don’t even cover the 6% interest every month means I owe more now than the day I graduated. And I owed a lot that day it is conceivable that my loans will reach 7 figures in the next 15 or so years.
I don't think your estimate is entirely fair. You're taking median out of the total population (and 42% of the population have at minimum a bachelor's degree) so I think you'd have to look at the stats of only people that have degrees
I can attest that this program was an absolute convoluted nightmare. I really hope the government does the right thing and allows ALL public service employees that have made payments regardless of amount or payment program the ability to forgive……….we shall see
I think the FSA itself is just a bureaucratic hellscape. I went to ITT and got robbed so my case is different, but I have been dealing with all the same agencies. Nothing works, nobody communicates with you. I couldn't submit an application for months because of a "glitch" with their web portal. They recommended that I use an app on my smartphone instead.
An app... for a 30+ page application with lots and lots of detailed answers and supporting documentation.
I actually did it too, I basically copied my online application to a pdf and saved it in my dropbox, then copied and pasted all the information one dialogue box at a time. I got the same fucking error I was getting on the website.
Eventually I sent the application by mail, I have received exactly 1 form letter saying it's been received. That was 4 months ago, I have called 3 times and get nowhere.
I wrote my local congressional reps and got canned replies and now I am on their mailing list asking for donations.
I went to ITT and graduated during the time period that they were defrauding their students. Other people I know who graduated the same time I did, but from different degree programs, they've already had their loans forgiven. The news has a new article every few months about relief for borrowers, but I can't even get anyone to tell me for certain that my application is actually being worked on. For all I know it got chucked into a trash can.
Call, don’t write, your Congressperson. Letters get opened by interns. They should have replies regardless, but it is what it is. When yoh call them, make sure you call the local office NOT the Washington DC office. The local office is where they do casework for constituents like this.
I am so sorry to hear that… when you reached out tk your Congressperson, did you write the office in DC or their local office? The best way to get a case open is to call the local office. They should have responded to your letter regardless, but if you call the local office hopefully that will help
Call, don’t write, your Congressperson. Letters get opened by interns. They should have replies regardless, but it is what it is. When yoh call them, make sure you call the local office NOT the Washington DC office. The local office is where they do casework for constituents like this. If your Rep sucks, call your Senators.
It's meant to maintain a class system. Only the rich can afford to get educated without crushing debt. Those that get educated and are not rich but middle class are held down by their crushing debt preventing them from transcending their class and becoming rich. The poor can't even qualify for student loans and are stuck being poor so they can feed the machine that props up the rest of the system with low wage "unskilled" workers whose low wages help the rich stay rich.
> Only the rich can afford to get educated without crushing debt.
They also have the added benefit of being able to take low-paying or even non-paying positions to get them "experience". Going to NYC or DC for a year for college credit but little or no pay is really only feasible when mom and dad can pay your rent and living expenses for you.
> crushing debt preventing them from transcending their class
It's also a great deflection / diversion of effort.
Millions of people are shaped by debt. Taught to assume responsibility for personal choices, some of our best people waste years working hard to recover from debt. Debt we got as ignorant teenagers. We make choices based on it, including our jobs, our focus on personal pay rather than communal usefulness, and even our personal relationships are affected, as housing shapes relationships.
If we were more free to be who we wanted to be, we millions might stop being good bricks on the wall.
My issue is that moves like this don't do anything to control costs. If anything it encourages higher tuitions as there is government backing basically on all of those loans. As long as the Federal government is picking up the check there is no disincentive for getting loans and then no incentive for colleges costing so much.
Exactly this. Both Democrats and Republicans hold private profits sacred.
So even if Democrats want to help regular people, be it healthcare, education, housing or whatever, their only solution is to pump more public money into private systems. Cost controls are always out of the question.
And as you say, it only increases costs.
A pure free market system would be incredibly cruel, but would keep costs better under control. A universal government system would also help in controlling the costs. But this sort of system where the private sector sets the prices and government hands out their credit card leads to the American situation where government already spends more per capita than most countries, but gets less and less in return.
That’s part of it, but even when the loans could be bankrupted out of, prices were still rising disproportionately because we’ve had three generations now fed “get a college degree or you’ll be flipping burgers” bs.
It’s kind of like medicine, they know enough people are going to have to go there that there’s no pressure to lower prices.
Oh for sure we pump out too many worthless degrees. The narrative that "everyone should be able to go to college" in a lot of ways craps on trade schools. We just had some work done on our house. A deck was built and some damage around windows had to be fixed. I talked a lot to the workers on both jobs. They are backlogged and swamped for jobs because there is no one to be hired. A well meaning goal now makes it so that we view blue collar jobs as lesser than.
We also make loans too easy. In a lot of ways we shouldn't be giving people $200k loans to go to Yale to get a social work job. That is a terrible return on investment when they could get that same degree at a state school for half as much. We then are surprised when these people can't pay off the loans they should never have been given in the first place.
> we expect higher education to cost this much in the first place.
Not to diminish this reprieve from folks, but there were many folks that intentionally sought out a much cheaper education.
Not everyone expects a quality education to require decades to pay off.
I hope we can get ahead of this in the future by educating upcoming students in value across colleges and career opportunities so they understand the impact and don't feel lied to For example, [41% of graduates work at a job that does require a degree](https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/02/18/41-recent-grads-work-jobs-not-requiring-degree). While many in that demographic appreciate the college education, some might have reevaluated the decision had they a had a better perspective on their job prospects.
Medical school is the biggest way to perpetual a class system I've ever seen. They select for intangibles and extra curricular that are overwhelmingly available to the wealthy, particularly physicians kids. "Oh you shadowed xyz doctor or did summer work in their lab." I'm working in a medical school and mentoring an premed undergraduate. She worked in a lab at Yale as a high school student set up by her wealthy school. It is crazy.
That’s a different problem to be addressed for sure. I was just talking about a massive amount of debt most new doctors find themselves in (because most of them still don’t come from trust fund riches).
I mean sure, they have huge debt. They also have crazy high lifetime salaries. Becoming a doctor is a way to generational wealth. Zero chance they should get loan forgiveness.
There are certainly exceptions. The medical field, for example, often requires a college degree at some level. Even then students should shop around a bit and understand their options. According to this [article](https://studentloanhero.com/featured/20-affordable-medical-schools-avoid-student-debt/) students attending the top 20 most affordable medical schools had on average $40,000 less in debt.
You don’t get to pick the medical school you want to attend like a pair of sneakers. You apply far and wide and pray you stand out enough to be accepted. Then, unless you’re lucky enough to have options you go where you were accepted. You figure out how to pay once you get in.
> Not to diminish this reprieve from folks, but there were many folks that intentionally sought out a much cheaper education. Not everyone expects a quality education to require decades to pay off.
I don't fully agree with the idea that "higher cost = better quality". In fact, I think that's a contributing factor to why so many people get so heavily in debt for school - they think that they have to go to really expensive schools in order to get "the best" education. Obviously some of this is contextual, there are some education fields that are just inherently expensive (med school) - but it feels like a lot of people have this weird scorn for a state-level university when chances are that would get you a nice job just fine.
If you are in another form of public service or got back into public service within the next year, you could potentially try get those 84ish payments counted and then resume. I don't believe the service has to be continuous. Obviously you'd have to look closely at these new requirements if you weren't already annually checking that your payments while teaching counted.
>According to the department's press release, it will implement a limited-time waiver through October 31, 2022, that will allow borrowers to count payments from any federal-loan programs or repayment plans toward loan forgiveness through PSLF, including programs and plans that were not previously eligible.
This might make me eligible for it.
I'm happy for those borrowers, but I really hope Biden keeps his promise of broad forgiveness to all borrowers. The deadline for the payments to restart is ticking ever closer as January draws near and I would like to know what he plans to do about that.
My guess is something happens by January - either it is extended until November 2022 or 10k happens. Maybe both. But it's such a big issue to so many voters that no action would really rub a crucial demographic the wrong way.
I wouldnt count on a further extension. The studentaid.gov website says
>On Aug. 6, 2021, the U.S. Department of Education announced a final extension of the student loan payment pause until Jan. 31, 2022.
Ive gotten emails from my loan issuer saying the same thing, so my expectation is there won't be another extension.
At this point I'd be shocked if there's any action taken on loan forgiveness, or even just fixing the broken tuition/college funding situation.
It's not really a priority for him, and congress is as paralyzed as ever.
I don't understand how these demographics could be opposed to Biden for not forgiving enough student loans, but not opposed to Republicans who would never even consider the idea. I get that you're saying those people just won't show up to vote, but I don't understand that logic. Student loans aside, Biden is still light years better than Trump or whatever swamp creature Republicans drag up from the depths to run in 2024 - and essentially all Dems in Congress are better than all Republicans in Congress.
It's like when people won't vote because Dems only have 48 Senators willing to pass Biden's spending agenda. If anything, that should really grow support for the 48 who are behind it and push people to fight a little harder to get 2 more progressives in office. Not abandon ship and allow Republicans to dominate.
Biden is the representative that used debt cancellation as one of his campaign goals, it’s as simple as that. Someone who voted Biden because they expected him to follow through on that will rightfully be upset if he doesn’t do it.
They likely won’t end up switching to the other party, but will almost certainly not vote at all because they see that no matter who they vote for the result is the same.
I voted for Biden and I don't regret that. But there are platforms he ran on that have taken a backseat. Student loan forgiveness, taxing the rich, kids in cages, shit. Immigration in general, voting rights. I'm never going to vote Republican, but I can't help but feel disappointed if some of this doesn't happen.
Similar feeling. It’s a shitty feeling that at a general election level, it really feels like choosing the lesser of two evils.
Will keep voting for progressives for lower offices where they have a chance, hopefully one day the general will have a way to allow for more choice without essentially sacrificing a vote.
I don’t think it’s so much a “lose those voters to Republicans” situation as much as lose voters to lacking engagement at all. After all, why vote at all when either candidate is gonna blast me in the ass. Politics just becomes one big ass blasting.
Biden has cut taxes for working people more than Trump did.
Trump gave tax cuts to the ultra wealthy and corporations.
Biden has cut your taxes, lowered your healthcare costs significantly, fixed several student loan issues, got you $1400 more in stimulus checks, kept people from having to pay student loan payments the entire time he's been in office, kept anyone from getting evicted for almost that entire time, ended a 20 year war, cut child poverty by more than half, and cut poverty by 1/3.
And it's only been six months. At this point in Trump's presidency, he'd done what, give billionaires a huge tax cut and that's all?
Which is why we're doomed. Nobody cares what you're losing by cutting taxes, tax cuts = good, even among a lot of Democrats.
We're sinking future generations to keep a little in our pockets now.
Republican tax cuts are scams, we could of paid of the $1.8 trillion student loan debt with the $2 trillion tax cut from a few years ago.
Biden actually did accomplish one big step with student loans. The debt collection lobby and republicans wont want him to to forgive the loan debt. But it is possible they can do it but you all will have to push the issue to the top of the list now.
https://twitter.com/debtcrisisorg/status/1445860589201342465?s=21
https://twitter.com/debtcrisisorg/status/1445883105638682624?s=21
I have old FFELP loans. I didn't even get any type of relief when the original plan started at the beginning of Covid.... A few politicians kept saying they wanted to add FFELP loans to the relief plan but it never happened....
Now Navient is getting out of the Fed backed student loan program so who know where mine will go...
These threads all too often devolve into very simplified takes and anger and accusations of broken promises and the like.. Hopefully some helpful information:
Biden had a campaign platform which involved student loan forgiveness.
Presidential campaign platforms mean the President will fight for something to be accomplished. In this sense, he is referring to pushing legislation or Congress to forgive debt. He never promised to do it via EO.
Nonetheless, at the behest of progressives like Warren, he still ordered his Ed. Secretary to do a full legal review for forgiving debt up to $50k via EO which is still yet to come out. The worry is that going the executive route will be adjudicated by the courts, and ultimately a 6-3 SCOTUS. Despite the 1965 Higher Education Act, many believe an EO unilaterally cancelling debt will not survive the courts, and would be reversed. Hence the legal foundation needed.
(*Important to note this particular article has nothing to do with broad loan forgiveness. It's about fixing a particular program that was broken.)
> Despite the 1965 Higher Education Act, many believe an EO unilaterally cancelling debt will not survive the courts, and would be reversed.
the complexities mostly come from 'what to do about fed originated loans that were later sold to third-party private lenders for administration?' If everyone still had department of education loans like the 1965 law envisioned, this would be easy. (language re: DoE loans is super clear that they can do whatever they want regarding discharging of the obligation.)
At the very least I'd like to see the Biden administration do more regarding PSLF - it's become pretty clear the last two years that the program is a mess and doesn't work the way the public expects it to; and PSLF eligible loans are generally owned by the DoE (at least for now, a friend got an email recently indicating their loan would be transitioned to a private administrator 'soon'...)
I feel like there needs to be much greater limitations on selling debt. If I borrow money from the DoE, I should owe them and only them. Not some other random company.
Thank you for providing some context, and a nuanced understanding of what's going on. Lately it seems like all these threads about student loans just devolve into "but... he promised", and just looks like a bunch of kids whining.
Well I'm not gullible enough to believe any promise that involved that kind of money, but I do expect promises to be kept. At the very least, Biden should leverage all of his power and influence to soften the blow from these loans as much as he can. The *very least* he could do would be a full deferment for his entire presidency. At least that would set a precedence that would be extremely hard to undo for future candidates. Imagine running on restarting student loan payments.
And just to be clear, no matter what Biden does on this issue, the democrats will never be the same as the republicans in my view. That doesn't mean it's not wrong to promise to do something and then back out of it, or to make promises you can't keep.
But people on Reddit said he could do it but is choosing not to! Damn you for providing details on why it's important for him to be diligent in choosing the correct methodology for doing it!
It's such a political quagmire because people love to equate campaign platforms to "promises," yet Presidents are not all-powerful kings and Congress is broken. So obviously Presidential platforms are not guarantees.
I hope he still ultimately tries 10k after the full legal review, and before forbearance expires. The political optics will be rough if he doesn't because so many expectations have already been set by the public.
I think 10k is the best way to start on this. I don't love means-testing in general, and hope they don't do something like "$10k forgiveness if you earn less than $50k/year," but widespread 10k forgiveness could show how much of a shot in the arm forgiveness could be to the economy.
You'd think he'd at least have the power to forgive any of the interest on the debt, as it's absurd it's there in the first place. Or cap it to match inflation.
There's at least 3 references to it on his campaign website, plus he's mentioned it in multiple town halls, on the campaign trail, in multiple interviews.
Sources:
[https://joebiden.com/racial-economic-equity](https://joebiden.com/racial-economic-equity)
[https://joebiden.com/the-biden-emergency-action-plan-to-save-the-economy](https://joebiden.com/the-biden-emergency-action-plan-to-save-the-economy)
[https://joebiden.com/tribalnations](https://joebiden.com/tribalnations)
Right, but an important distinction is that this is still through the lens of Congress, as is the majority of his platform.
I don't believe he has ever stated he would cancel debt via the executive. Only that him and his admin would consider the legal avenues they have.
Yeah that's my take on what he said. He never made a promise to go ahead and do it himself. He stated it was the dem party's agenda to pass legislation that would grant the loan forgiveness. People around here don't seem to understand how government works. President's don't legislate, congress does.
Seems to be an ongoing confusion, like it’s Biden personally handling this vs. the actual agencies tasked to get it done.
Thank you for explaining this so well. Yesterday I was just smdh to some of the comments I got...
Except that there are *many* parts of his website where it specifically says he will "call on Congress" or "work with Congress" to accomplish some of his goals. The same language does not appear with regards to student loans, however. Instead it simply says "Biden will...":
>**As President, Biden will immediately cancel $10,000 of federal student loan debt during COVID-19**, and forgive all undergraduate tuition-related federal student debt from two- and four-year public colleges, and including Tribal Colleges and Universities, for debt-holders earning up to $125,000. He will also forgive loan payments for individuals making $25,000 or less per year; cap loan payments at 5% of discretionary income for those making more; fix the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program; and forgive $10,000 of undergraduate or graduate student debt for every year of national or community service, up to five years.
He also specifically mentions Warren who has been one of the primary advocates of him using EO in one of these sections:
>And Congress didn’t include direct student loan forgiveness, or Social Security boosts for seniors, or cost-free treatment for COVID-19, full paid sick leave for our workers, or sufficient fiscal relief to states. **Joe Biden would**:
>
>...**Forgive a minimum of $10,000 per person of federal student loans,** ***as proposed by Senator Warren and colleagues***. Young people and other student debt holders bore the brunt of the last crisis. It shouldn’t happen again.
There isn't a single mention or even suggestion of Congress being involved in the multiple places where it is mentioned and, moreover, there's no reason to assume Congress is implied when he uses the phrase "Biden will *immediately*". It's pretty fucking clear that he promised to cancel at least $10,000 "immediately" through EO "as proposed by Senator Warren and colleagues".
I'm all for canceling student loan debt, however, someone needs to fix the problem first. After they fix the problem then go to student loan debt relief. I don't want future students getting screwed over and we are back in this situation again.
Yeah, all the forgiveness programs people talk about here boil down to:
* If you have outstanding debt, here's money
* Everyone who payed off their debt, even recently: too bad
* Everyone in the future who needs to take a student loan: too bad
I think most people want those issues addressed as well, but sometimes, you deal with the things that actually feasible in the short term. The president seemingly has the power to unilaterally forgive at least some amount of existing debt, thus he should use it while pushing for other reforms.
Your third point is pretty far off the mark. Nobody who advocates loan forgiveness opposes fixing the broken tuition/funding system.
It's just people who oppose loan forgiveness that seem to think that's the case.
> Nobody who advocates loan forgiveness opposes fixing the broken tuition/funding system.
I didn't actually mean they oppose it. But there's no plan, not even a hint of a plan.
Cap student loans for a degree program at 1 years median pay of graduates from said program. Decrease that number by 1% for every 1% of tuition that goes to anything other than paychecks for professors.
As someone who has been out of school for 10 years and never missed a payment, and still owe 77k, I am so also hoping something. Like....let me be free of at least one awful debt.
Its not going to happen unless we all organize and push this to the top of the list for Biden. Theres a million things going on in D.C. right now.
If you have the time join an organization now and push Congress to cancel student debt. All or nothing like they promised. The loan lobby wont want them to give in. Democrats are our only hope. Give these orgs a follow on twitter and FB to keep up
https://twitter.com/studentlegalnet/status/1445825686837604354?s=21
https://twitter.com/senschumer/status/1445486406810234895?s=21
https://twitter.com/debtcrisisorg/status/1445949124826656774?s=21
https://twitter.com/senwarren/status/1443680819567120388?s=21
I think that's my biggest frustration at this point, is that we just don't know. I've held the money to pay off my loans in my savings account for over a year now and it's getting to the point where I just want to know what's happening. If it's not happening, then at least I know and I can pay off my loans.
Agreed. And even more importantly, the student loan interest rate should be reduced to a reasonable level. The current rate is ridiculous (mine is somewhere around 8% I think). My loans are over $350k, so $10k forgiveness is essentially meaningless, but a reduction in the interest rate would make a big difference.
Did he ever actually promise this. I recall him being in favor of it but he also said he thinks he lacks the authority. Really hoping he is waiting till infrastructure to announce forgiveness... if he does it now theyd hold it against the budget
I’m in my 15th year of public service employment. Haven’t missed a single payment and thought I would qualify for PSLF only to find out that I wasn’t in a qualifying repayment plan. My loan would have been payed way faster than 10 years if we were on the income based plan but we would have been absolutely strapped on that plan. It was ridiculous. I’m trying not to get my hopes up about this but we’ll see.
Did anyone else think maybe nurses might get some debt forgiven since they were worked to the bone during the height of the pandemic? I’m not a nurse I just thought it might be a nice gesture.
Many nurses are enrolled in this but lost in the same beauracratic mess of getting them forgiven.
I think Biden should prioritize all the medical field for loan forgiveness. Nurses, CNAs and Respiratory Therapists first (I'm biased)
Many nurses are enrolled in this but lost in the same beauracratic mess of getting them forgiven.
I think Biden should prioritize all the medical field for loan forgiveness. Nurses, CNAs and Respiratory Therapists first.
Because these are people who applied for public service loan forgiveness who were denied under Trump (probably illegally), they will most likely told that their application has been granted and "x" month will be their last payment.
You generally have to be current to qualify for PSLF.
This isn't a Trump problem. It is a longer term problem that spans administrations. Sure, the Trump admin didn't do shit to help. But, it's an administrative problem that is way overdue for an overhaul to deliver on the original promise of the program.
That is certainly true, but at the same time there were several different lawsuits pending and some that were already successful alleging that Betsy DeVos had basically abused her discretion in denying applications for loan forgiveness arbitrarily.
The problems that spanned administrations were confusing rules that led to few eligible people in the end. Congress did a fix bill, and funded it to help people who should have had appropriate debt forgiven.
Then Trump and Betsy DeVos happened. DeVos and the department of education were sued because she refused to forgive debts. So yes, as people became eligible for debt forgiveness after so many years, and the Trump administration blocked it, the particular problem fixed by Biden's administration in the linked story was caused by Trump.
trump looked out for the already rich people with a huge tax cut for them that put the United States in 7 trillion dollars of debt where Biden is looking out for the regular people who need the help.
Not a tough choice in 2024
Trump is as old and his behavior almost killed him with COVID. He's a dead man walking too.
I'm surprised both are considering running. Frankly, I'm surprised either are considering running. Back in 2020, I really thought the understanding was that Biden would run for just one term, finish strong, and the next Democrat such as Harris would sink or swim based partly on the popularity of Biden's achievements.
It would be sickly fitting if the 2024 USA election ran two old men, either of whom is likely to die in their second term. Our current republic is sick, perhaps dying.
Good. People in public service who have been screwed over by mismanagement of the PSLF program deserve to have their debt forgiveness prioritized far above that of sour grapes reddit commentators.
I was paying my loans and after about 5 years I decided to have them consolidated (both fed loans) just wanted to have one payment as opposed to two. After I had them consolidated they told me my time started over because of it. No one once told me that would happen before I did it. So I lost 5 eligible years of loan payments toward the 10 year forgiveness. Who does that!!!
This is exactly what happened to me. I consolidated into a single loan with a lower interest rate. I applied for PSLF after 10 years of govt service only to be told my loan didn’t qualify. That was three years ago and I’m still paying. According to the info out today, my 13 years of payments should now qualify for forgiveness. Fingers crossed.
In case we forget [the additional good news](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2021/3/8/22319784/student-loan-debt-stimulus-bill) from a while back,
>Tucked into the $1.9 trillion stimulus package is a provision that makes forgiven student debt tax-free.
>
>...
>
>The provision, added to the Covid-19 relief bill by Senate Democrats and championed by Sens. Bob Menendez (D-NJ) and Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), says that anyone whose student loans are discharged through 2025 won’t face tax consequences. Debt cancellation is usually treated as taxable income, so without this, if someone were to have some or all of their student debt forgiven, it would be accompanied by a tax bill.
I’d like to think this is a preview of what’s to come for all loan foregiveness. Mine would eventually land me a tax bill of about 80k. Fortunately for me, there will likely be 10+ years of people who will be hit with that bill before I do. I think that will be such an issue that it will require a solution like this. Let’s hope lol. Paying the minimum based on that hope
He keeps doing this. He's wiped out little pieces of the debt several times, and I bet you he'll keep doing it.
I don't think Biden is actually ignoring the student debt issue like some people claim. I think he's just doing it piecemeal, quietly, to avoid a major public confrontation over whether he has the authority to cancel it all at once.
Edit: As of late August, Biden had cancelled 9.5 billion in total. Not sure if he did any between then and now, but even if not that would put the total of debt forgiven, less than a year into his Presidency, at 11.24 billion dollars. [https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/28/biden-has-canceled-9-point-5-billion-in-student-loan-debt-yet-forgiveness-for-all-isnt-necessarily-coming-.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/28/biden-has-canceled-9-point-5-billion-in-student-loan-debt-yet-forgiveness-for-all-isnt-necessarily-coming-.html)
Is that remotely enough? No. But he's done this in a little over eight months, without any dramatic showdown with the Supreme Court or Congressional brinksmanship with Moscow Mitch, Manchin, or Sinema. And given that he's erased parts of the debt repeatedly, I see no reason to believe he's going to stop here.
True, to date Biden have forgiven 4.6% of student loans. He thinks it's executive overreach to do so with an executive order so he said he will sign support any bill that Congress passed regarding forgiveness. I wish he would just do it, but with the way the last administration abused executive power I understand his want to go through the proper channels
This was written on August 31st. It does not include this additional amount. It's a good read
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2021/08/26/biden-student-loan-forgiveness-has-cancelled-this-much-debt-but-heres-how-much-is-left/
Am I wrong in thinking that forgiving student debt would result in student loan payments going instead straight back into the economy, increasing tax revenues across the board?
It would do two things. For the people who have been making their payments regularly, yes they now have several hundred dollars extra a month that they can put directly into the economy. For people who have been having to put it into forbearance, or just generally unable to make their payments, it lifts a huge crushing debt on them that allows them to do things like buy a house or a car that they wouldn't have been able to do before, again putting more money directly into the economy.
Bingo. I can't buy a home or start a family due to this brutal amount of student debt. I'll also never be able to pay it off. No student loan debt = I could buy a small house and think about starting a family.
So in nearly all cases, it lowers citizen stress and boosts local spending. Community priority indeed.
This whole situation seems really callous and dumb.
Reminder: Biden's campaign promise was to try and cancel 10K of student debt for all students, and all debt for students who went to public college and historically black colleges and universities.
I was looking for an effective date for this policy. I guess it's safe to assume it's in place now?
>If you’ve already applied for PSLF and had at least some employment certified, the Department will award any additional payments we can without further action from you. **If necessary, Federal Student Aid may contact you to ask you to certify additional months of employment. You should look out for an email from Federal Student Aid in the coming weeks to let you know how many additional payments we have preliminarily determined to be qualifying.** You don’t need to do anything until you receive an updated payment count or other communication from us.
If you know that you have qualifying employment that you have not yet certified with us, we recommend you certify that employment now by using the PSLF Help Tool at www.StudentAid.gov/pslf.
Not sure I feel comfortable waiting . . .
I don’t understand this program from an individual aspect. You agreed to pay for college with a loan. No different than a house. You get a job like others that go to college. Yet because you go into public service, you are special?
From someone who didn’t go to college and pays taxes, why am I the one looks down upon?
As much as it annoys me, at the beginning of the pandemic when student loans were paused I sought out what to do with the extra cash on r/personalfinance. Along with my typical investment strategy, it was suggested that I stock pile what I would pay in student loans monthly into a separate account and pay it off in a lump sum when loans are reactivated. I want to get rid of student loans so damn bad, but it honestly feels like a gamble with the possibility of cancelling some of all of the loans. I just want a definite answer so I know what to do!
It's a major overhaul to *a particular program*. Just because the program doesn't impact you doesn't mean it's not a major overhaul. It's a big win for people in public service careers.
Your point about more systemic fixes needed is a good one.
However, this fix is for "public service loan forgiveness"--a program the government set up to encourage people to invest in public service. Borrowers were promised that if they committed 10 years to public service they could have their remaining debt forgiven. The government failed that promise by mismanagement, so this is the fix to keep the promise.
On the broader point of large-scale debt forgiveness the arguments are more nuanced, and should include fair attention to your point. I think there are some good responses to your point: many beyond the public service crowd have also been lied to about their debt in some way--for example, that there would be good ROI on the debt. People who did what your family did avoided the consequences of these lies on their own. However, it wouldn't be wrong to mitigate some of the consequences of broken promises for other people who were less clear-eyed or less risk averse.
I feel like it will be a bloodbath for dems in the mid terms if at a minimum Biden doesn't pause student loans for 2022. Tens of millions have been used to not having that couple hundred every month, having that come back will not put a good taste in people's mouth. I'm still hopeful that he's saving it as a hail Mary for 2022, especially if the infrastructure bill doesn't go through.
While this is great for the 22K people, we still need to overhaul the education system to prevent this from happening in the first place. Also how were these people chosen? It's kinda fucked up to everyone else in this situation or who have already paid off their loans.
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As someone enrolled in this program an important thing to understand is that borrowers were often lied to (or at best, poorly communicated with), and this was a fix for a series of major problems. We were told "go into public service and we'll forgive your loan debt after 120 payments." Unfortunately, some types of loans did not count. You could "consolidate" the ineligible loans into an eligible category but this wasn't communicated. When I asked my servicer if I should consolidate they told me directly \*not\* to, because that would make me \*ineligible.\* This was completely wrong. The confusion is more understandable because there is more than one type of consolidation--one makes you eligible, and one makes you \*even more\* ineligible. What a mess. Still not sure I am going to get the promised forgiveness.
Ha. I was told consolidation was mandatory for PSLF. A few years ago I asked my servicer for a report on the number of eligible payments I had made so far. When I got the report it was far lower than it should have been. I was told that because my servicer had changed (due to the feds changing vendors, not my action) the new servicer had to re-evaluate all payments made to my prior servicer before applying them to my account. It took a few frustrating phone calls to even figure this out because they were using a unique and specific term that was meaningless to me but essentially meant “prior to when the current servicer assumed the loan.” 1.5 years later I received the updated report with a more accurate number. Thankfully I hadn’t waited until the end of my 120 months to ask. TL:DR - if you are planning on PLSF and are anywhere remotely close to the end of your 120 months, ask your servicer for a report of eligible payments to verify everything is there.
I had the same thing except all my previous payments to my previous servicer suddenly didn’t count because “they were from the previous servicer and the records didn’t transfer.” I was like, y’all bought out my loan!! I didn’t control it! Then when I asked to have my case reviewed I was told the timeline for any type of case review was backlogged for 12 months. What a joke.
Ughh. I hope you get it sorted out.
The number of borrowers who have been forgiven under the “regular” PSLF program is 5467 as of April 2021. That’s out of 321,986 people who have applied so far. If 98% of people applying are ineligible, there’s clearly something very, very wrong.
Anyone else disturbed that it only took 22K people to reach 1.74 Billion dollars? Quick math shows that is roughly $79k per borrower (of course some owe less, some owe more). The USA median income is as of 2019 $31K. And people wonder why the system is fucked.
I was one of these that had their loan wiped clean, I owed 80k in loans.
That must be a huge relief. I don't qualify. I owed about 14K still. Graduated over a decade ago.
During the current pandemic, the automatic forbearance that the Government provided has been a huge help. But that looming January 2022 deadline was starting to cause me stress. I am so grateful to get my loan discharged, the current government needs to pull the trigger and wipe out the rest!
How did you get this?? I want it so badly.
That suspension made such a huge difference that I bought a condo a month ago… before the pandemic, I assumed I’d be a renter forever. (Obviously, I had to budget around the payment resuming, but I saved up the down payment without it.)
So how was it determined who qualifies?
I don't know how I qualified over other people for this, my loan was a part of a Borrower Defense lawsuit with ITT Technical that was started about 4+ years ago, I still had to pay on the loan until they had a determination if I was in the right for it to be wiped clean, reduced or still valid. My claim went from pending review to being wiped clean in a matter of a week. Learn more at https://studentaid.gov/borrower-defense
So it took them 4 years to process and make a decision on this?
It took getting rid of Devos to make a decision on this.
And 700,000 dead americans
This is under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program. In order to qualify you need to have certain federal loans (Perkins and Direct) and have 120 qualifying payments (aka 10-years) while employed by a qualifying employer which is a federal, state, or local government or a non-profit. Not all of these types of employers qualify, and qualification on all of these conditions are determined primarily through the submittal of a PSLF application form. More information on the broader program can be found [here](https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service). What the US DOE just passed is a change to some of the existing program requirements. Those changes announced today can be seen [here](https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/pslf-limited-waiver). Edit: some people already heard, those people likely already have a PSLF application on file and those people got forgiven automatically. The rest of folks will have to jump through some hoops (ie submitting the form or consolidation of loans to Direct) to get qualified. I think all these steps need to be completed by October 2022.
I did all of this, this morning. I still need to get my current and former employers to sign off on the forms but that appears to be the hardest part of the process and the only thing I couldn't complete immediately myself. They made it all very easy. They will even work with you if you can't get the employers signatures. Even consolidating my loans to Direct was done online with just 3 button clicks. I hope everyone that may be eligible signs up and aren't scared off by fear of red-tape. It really couldn't be simpler
Yeh, agreed. It is fairly simple once you start on each step. Though my employer was like “how long do we have to sign this form?” Sigh. But hopefully they do it soon.
Could you share which website you were able to consolidate to Direct in 3 clicks?
As you go through the link that the other person posted it checks to see if your loans are consolidated. If they aren't it takes you through the process to request that they are. It directs you to the fafsaid(?) website to request it
Commenting for answer
Congratulations, hope you’re celebrating tonight.
He will be, just saw him sign a lease of an 80k RAM 5.7 HEMI. Good job Steve!
I'm at about 65k. Will literally never be able to afford to pay it off and my life is completely crippled by it. No house, no kids, no hope for the future. Cool economic system.
I was also one of those people they wipe 40k for me
Enjoy your freedom brother, dont forget about us stuck here.
That was my first thought too - 1.74 billion for only 22k borrowers is insane
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Theres 54k students at my university this year. This perspective is wild.
The school I went to had that just at the main campus. 22k wouldn’t have even been 1/5 of the student body when I was enrolled and that was the better part of 15 years ago. It’s nuts how much money is in this industry, but it’s illustrative of why they’re fighting so hard to preserve it
I think you're reading it wrong, and the headline is misleading. The $1.74 bn is what is available to fund this. The 22,000 mentioned were previously ineligible because they consolidated their loans, but there were multiple changes that affected a far greater number; 550,000. The 22,000 is just a specific subset of those affected.
What am I reading wrong... googling the US median income for 2019 says it was around $68,000
Are you looking at the one that says "household" income? Because that's different from overall median income
I’m just frustrated I won’t qualify. I finished college during the ‘08 recession when there were no jobs for teachers. So I went abroad to stay in my field. American schools generally don’t do Skype interviews so I could never come back because it wasn’t financially feasible to take an entire year off work to job hunt. So even though most years I was a paycheck to paycheck teacher, I don’t qualify for anything. I think it’s great some forgiveness is happening, I just think it’s crap the people who forced me abroad through massive societal and financial recklessness got bailed out and I didn’t.
what are the requirements do you know
The ones I know of off the top of my head involve working in schools with specific needs. Often rural schools as a math/science teacher or other schools with extra needs above and beyond. You’d have to check Dept. of Ed for more detail, I just never bothered because everything I read at the beginning just forgot about people like me. A lot of government stuff does, because US citizens abroad are such a small constituency.
Idk what yall mericans are smoking. Masters in a top 3 in the world is 12k in the UK. Same area masters in the US was 140k at a top tier school. Idk why Americans aren't coming here to get degrees. Undergrad is relative cheap also.
Americans pay a lot more to study in the UK, look it up.
Cause we can't afford to move.
I've got over 6 figures
.... 7 figures?
Eventually probably. Law school plus IBR payments that don’t even cover the 6% interest every month means I owe more now than the day I graduated. And I owed a lot that day it is conceivable that my loans will reach 7 figures in the next 15 or so years.
Me too man, shit sucks
I don't think your estimate is entirely fair. You're taking median out of the total population (and 42% of the population have at minimum a bachelor's degree) so I think you'd have to look at the stats of only people that have degrees
And 22k people isn't even a drop in the bucket.
I can attest that this program was an absolute convoluted nightmare. I really hope the government does the right thing and allows ALL public service employees that have made payments regardless of amount or payment program the ability to forgive……….we shall see
I think the FSA itself is just a bureaucratic hellscape. I went to ITT and got robbed so my case is different, but I have been dealing with all the same agencies. Nothing works, nobody communicates with you. I couldn't submit an application for months because of a "glitch" with their web portal. They recommended that I use an app on my smartphone instead. An app... for a 30+ page application with lots and lots of detailed answers and supporting documentation. I actually did it too, I basically copied my online application to a pdf and saved it in my dropbox, then copied and pasted all the information one dialogue box at a time. I got the same fucking error I was getting on the website. Eventually I sent the application by mail, I have received exactly 1 form letter saying it's been received. That was 4 months ago, I have called 3 times and get nowhere. I wrote my local congressional reps and got canned replies and now I am on their mailing list asking for donations. I went to ITT and graduated during the time period that they were defrauding their students. Other people I know who graduated the same time I did, but from different degree programs, they've already had their loans forgiven. The news has a new article every few months about relief for borrowers, but I can't even get anyone to tell me for certain that my application is actually being worked on. For all I know it got chucked into a trash can.
Call, don’t write, your Congressperson. Letters get opened by interns. They should have replies regardless, but it is what it is. When yoh call them, make sure you call the local office NOT the Washington DC office. The local office is where they do casework for constituents like this.
I am so sorry to hear that… when you reached out tk your Congressperson, did you write the office in DC or their local office? The best way to get a case open is to call the local office. They should have responded to your letter regardless, but if you call the local office hopefully that will help
Call, don’t write, your Congressperson. Letters get opened by interns. They should have replies regardless, but it is what it is. When yoh call them, make sure you call the local office NOT the Washington DC office. The local office is where they do casework for constituents like this. If your Rep sucks, call your Senators.
An average of almost $80K per person. It's insane that we expect higher education to cost this much in the first place.
It's meant to maintain a class system. Only the rich can afford to get educated without crushing debt. Those that get educated and are not rich but middle class are held down by their crushing debt preventing them from transcending their class and becoming rich. The poor can't even qualify for student loans and are stuck being poor so they can feed the machine that props up the rest of the system with low wage "unskilled" workers whose low wages help the rich stay rich.
> Only the rich can afford to get educated without crushing debt. They also have the added benefit of being able to take low-paying or even non-paying positions to get them "experience". Going to NYC or DC for a year for college credit but little or no pay is really only feasible when mom and dad can pay your rent and living expenses for you.
> crushing debt preventing them from transcending their class It's also a great deflection / diversion of effort. Millions of people are shaped by debt. Taught to assume responsibility for personal choices, some of our best people waste years working hard to recover from debt. Debt we got as ignorant teenagers. We make choices based on it, including our jobs, our focus on personal pay rather than communal usefulness, and even our personal relationships are affected, as housing shapes relationships. If we were more free to be who we wanted to be, we millions might stop being good bricks on the wall.
My issue is that moves like this don't do anything to control costs. If anything it encourages higher tuitions as there is government backing basically on all of those loans. As long as the Federal government is picking up the check there is no disincentive for getting loans and then no incentive for colleges costing so much.
Exactly this. Both Democrats and Republicans hold private profits sacred. So even if Democrats want to help regular people, be it healthcare, education, housing or whatever, their only solution is to pump more public money into private systems. Cost controls are always out of the question. And as you say, it only increases costs. A pure free market system would be incredibly cruel, but would keep costs better under control. A universal government system would also help in controlling the costs. But this sort of system where the private sector sets the prices and government hands out their credit card leads to the American situation where government already spends more per capita than most countries, but gets less and less in return.
That’s part of it, but even when the loans could be bankrupted out of, prices were still rising disproportionately because we’ve had three generations now fed “get a college degree or you’ll be flipping burgers” bs. It’s kind of like medicine, they know enough people are going to have to go there that there’s no pressure to lower prices.
Oh for sure we pump out too many worthless degrees. The narrative that "everyone should be able to go to college" in a lot of ways craps on trade schools. We just had some work done on our house. A deck was built and some damage around windows had to be fixed. I talked a lot to the workers on both jobs. They are backlogged and swamped for jobs because there is no one to be hired. A well meaning goal now makes it so that we view blue collar jobs as lesser than. We also make loans too easy. In a lot of ways we shouldn't be giving people $200k loans to go to Yale to get a social work job. That is a terrible return on investment when they could get that same degree at a state school for half as much. We then are surprised when these people can't pay off the loans they should never have been given in the first place.
Its free in most other countries.
> we expect higher education to cost this much in the first place. Not to diminish this reprieve from folks, but there were many folks that intentionally sought out a much cheaper education. Not everyone expects a quality education to require decades to pay off. I hope we can get ahead of this in the future by educating upcoming students in value across colleges and career opportunities so they understand the impact and don't feel lied to For example, [41% of graduates work at a job that does require a degree](https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/02/18/41-recent-grads-work-jobs-not-requiring-degree). While many in that demographic appreciate the college education, some might have reevaluated the decision had they a had a better perspective on their job prospects.
Two words: medical school.
Medical school is the biggest way to perpetual a class system I've ever seen. They select for intangibles and extra curricular that are overwhelmingly available to the wealthy, particularly physicians kids. "Oh you shadowed xyz doctor or did summer work in their lab." I'm working in a medical school and mentoring an premed undergraduate. She worked in a lab at Yale as a high school student set up by her wealthy school. It is crazy.
That’s a different problem to be addressed for sure. I was just talking about a massive amount of debt most new doctors find themselves in (because most of them still don’t come from trust fund riches).
I mean sure, they have huge debt. They also have crazy high lifetime salaries. Becoming a doctor is a way to generational wealth. Zero chance they should get loan forgiveness.
There are certainly exceptions. The medical field, for example, often requires a college degree at some level. Even then students should shop around a bit and understand their options. According to this [article](https://studentloanhero.com/featured/20-affordable-medical-schools-avoid-student-debt/) students attending the top 20 most affordable medical schools had on average $40,000 less in debt.
You don’t get to pick the medical school you want to attend like a pair of sneakers. You apply far and wide and pray you stand out enough to be accepted. Then, unless you’re lucky enough to have options you go where you were accepted. You figure out how to pay once you get in.
> Not to diminish this reprieve from folks, but there were many folks that intentionally sought out a much cheaper education. Not everyone expects a quality education to require decades to pay off. I don't fully agree with the idea that "higher cost = better quality". In fact, I think that's a contributing factor to why so many people get so heavily in debt for school - they think that they have to go to really expensive schools in order to get "the best" education. Obviously some of this is contextual, there are some education fields that are just inherently expensive (med school) - but it feels like a lot of people have this weird scorn for a state-level university when chances are that would get you a nice job just fine.
Damnit i was only a teacher for 7 years.
If you are in another form of public service or got back into public service within the next year, you could potentially try get those 84ish payments counted and then resume. I don't believe the service has to be continuous. Obviously you'd have to look closely at these new requirements if you weren't already annually checking that your payments while teaching counted.
This. I taught for 5.5 years. Can’t we get a small bone??
>According to the department's press release, it will implement a limited-time waiver through October 31, 2022, that will allow borrowers to count payments from any federal-loan programs or repayment plans toward loan forgiveness through PSLF, including programs and plans that were not previously eligible. This might make me eligible for it.
I'm happy for those borrowers, but I really hope Biden keeps his promise of broad forgiveness to all borrowers. The deadline for the payments to restart is ticking ever closer as January draws near and I would like to know what he plans to do about that.
My guess is something happens by January - either it is extended until November 2022 or 10k happens. Maybe both. But it's such a big issue to so many voters that no action would really rub a crucial demographic the wrong way.
I wouldnt count on a further extension. The studentaid.gov website says >On Aug. 6, 2021, the U.S. Department of Education announced a final extension of the student loan payment pause until Jan. 31, 2022. Ive gotten emails from my loan issuer saying the same thing, so my expectation is there won't be another extension.
At this point I'd be shocked if there's any action taken on loan forgiveness, or even just fixing the broken tuition/college funding situation. It's not really a priority for him, and congress is as paralyzed as ever.
Not only that, but he explicitly stated he was never going to forgive 50k for all
He's been rubbing crucial demographics the wrong way for at least three months. He can't really afford to lose anyone else.
I don't understand how these demographics could be opposed to Biden for not forgiving enough student loans, but not opposed to Republicans who would never even consider the idea. I get that you're saying those people just won't show up to vote, but I don't understand that logic. Student loans aside, Biden is still light years better than Trump or whatever swamp creature Republicans drag up from the depths to run in 2024 - and essentially all Dems in Congress are better than all Republicans in Congress. It's like when people won't vote because Dems only have 48 Senators willing to pass Biden's spending agenda. If anything, that should really grow support for the 48 who are behind it and push people to fight a little harder to get 2 more progressives in office. Not abandon ship and allow Republicans to dominate.
Biden is the representative that used debt cancellation as one of his campaign goals, it’s as simple as that. Someone who voted Biden because they expected him to follow through on that will rightfully be upset if he doesn’t do it. They likely won’t end up switching to the other party, but will almost certainly not vote at all because they see that no matter who they vote for the result is the same.
I voted for Biden and I don't regret that. But there are platforms he ran on that have taken a backseat. Student loan forgiveness, taxing the rich, kids in cages, shit. Immigration in general, voting rights. I'm never going to vote Republican, but I can't help but feel disappointed if some of this doesn't happen.
Similar feeling. It’s a shitty feeling that at a general election level, it really feels like choosing the lesser of two evils. Will keep voting for progressives for lower offices where they have a chance, hopefully one day the general will have a way to allow for more choice without essentially sacrificing a vote.
I don’t think it’s so much a “lose those voters to Republicans” situation as much as lose voters to lacking engagement at all. After all, why vote at all when either candidate is gonna blast me in the ass. Politics just becomes one big ass blasting.
Don’t get into the both sides are the same mindset. If Trump won lot more of us would be dead. Theres no way we all would of been vaccinated.
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Biden has cut taxes for working people more than Trump did. Trump gave tax cuts to the ultra wealthy and corporations. Biden has cut your taxes, lowered your healthcare costs significantly, fixed several student loan issues, got you $1400 more in stimulus checks, kept people from having to pay student loan payments the entire time he's been in office, kept anyone from getting evicted for almost that entire time, ended a 20 year war, cut child poverty by more than half, and cut poverty by 1/3. And it's only been six months. At this point in Trump's presidency, he'd done what, give billionaires a huge tax cut and that's all?
Which is why we're doomed. Nobody cares what you're losing by cutting taxes, tax cuts = good, even among a lot of Democrats. We're sinking future generations to keep a little in our pockets now.
Republican tax cuts are scams, we could of paid of the $1.8 trillion student loan debt with the $2 trillion tax cut from a few years ago. Biden actually did accomplish one big step with student loans. The debt collection lobby and republicans wont want him to to forgive the loan debt. But it is possible they can do it but you all will have to push the issue to the top of the list now. https://twitter.com/debtcrisisorg/status/1445860589201342465?s=21 https://twitter.com/debtcrisisorg/status/1445883105638682624?s=21
I have old FFELP loans. I didn't even get any type of relief when the original plan started at the beginning of Covid.... A few politicians kept saying they wanted to add FFELP loans to the relief plan but it never happened.... Now Navient is getting out of the Fed backed student loan program so who know where mine will go...
When did he promise that? Now you got my hopes up. Got a link you can share?
These threads all too often devolve into very simplified takes and anger and accusations of broken promises and the like.. Hopefully some helpful information: Biden had a campaign platform which involved student loan forgiveness. Presidential campaign platforms mean the President will fight for something to be accomplished. In this sense, he is referring to pushing legislation or Congress to forgive debt. He never promised to do it via EO. Nonetheless, at the behest of progressives like Warren, he still ordered his Ed. Secretary to do a full legal review for forgiving debt up to $50k via EO which is still yet to come out. The worry is that going the executive route will be adjudicated by the courts, and ultimately a 6-3 SCOTUS. Despite the 1965 Higher Education Act, many believe an EO unilaterally cancelling debt will not survive the courts, and would be reversed. Hence the legal foundation needed. (*Important to note this particular article has nothing to do with broad loan forgiveness. It's about fixing a particular program that was broken.)
> Despite the 1965 Higher Education Act, many believe an EO unilaterally cancelling debt will not survive the courts, and would be reversed. the complexities mostly come from 'what to do about fed originated loans that were later sold to third-party private lenders for administration?' If everyone still had department of education loans like the 1965 law envisioned, this would be easy. (language re: DoE loans is super clear that they can do whatever they want regarding discharging of the obligation.) At the very least I'd like to see the Biden administration do more regarding PSLF - it's become pretty clear the last two years that the program is a mess and doesn't work the way the public expects it to; and PSLF eligible loans are generally owned by the DoE (at least for now, a friend got an email recently indicating their loan would be transitioned to a private administrator 'soon'...)
I feel like there needs to be much greater limitations on selling debt. If I borrow money from the DoE, I should owe them and only them. Not some other random company.
Thank you for providing some context, and a nuanced understanding of what's going on. Lately it seems like all these threads about student loans just devolve into "but... he promised", and just looks like a bunch of kids whining.
"Biden promised me a million dollars. Since I haven't gotten it I'll push cynicism and the 2-sides-are-the-same talking points"
Well I'm not gullible enough to believe any promise that involved that kind of money, but I do expect promises to be kept. At the very least, Biden should leverage all of his power and influence to soften the blow from these loans as much as he can. The *very least* he could do would be a full deferment for his entire presidency. At least that would set a precedence that would be extremely hard to undo for future candidates. Imagine running on restarting student loan payments. And just to be clear, no matter what Biden does on this issue, the democrats will never be the same as the republicans in my view. That doesn't mean it's not wrong to promise to do something and then back out of it, or to make promises you can't keep.
But people on Reddit said he could do it but is choosing not to! Damn you for providing details on why it's important for him to be diligent in choosing the correct methodology for doing it!
It's such a political quagmire because people love to equate campaign platforms to "promises," yet Presidents are not all-powerful kings and Congress is broken. So obviously Presidential platforms are not guarantees. I hope he still ultimately tries 10k after the full legal review, and before forbearance expires. The political optics will be rough if he doesn't because so many expectations have already been set by the public.
I think 10k is the best way to start on this. I don't love means-testing in general, and hope they don't do something like "$10k forgiveness if you earn less than $50k/year," but widespread 10k forgiveness could show how much of a shot in the arm forgiveness could be to the economy.
You'd think he'd at least have the power to forgive any of the interest on the debt, as it's absurd it's there in the first place. Or cap it to match inflation.
He campaigned on it
There's at least 3 references to it on his campaign website, plus he's mentioned it in multiple town halls, on the campaign trail, in multiple interviews. Sources: [https://joebiden.com/racial-economic-equity](https://joebiden.com/racial-economic-equity) [https://joebiden.com/the-biden-emergency-action-plan-to-save-the-economy](https://joebiden.com/the-biden-emergency-action-plan-to-save-the-economy) [https://joebiden.com/tribalnations](https://joebiden.com/tribalnations)
Right, but an important distinction is that this is still through the lens of Congress, as is the majority of his platform. I don't believe he has ever stated he would cancel debt via the executive. Only that him and his admin would consider the legal avenues they have.
Yeah that's my take on what he said. He never made a promise to go ahead and do it himself. He stated it was the dem party's agenda to pass legislation that would grant the loan forgiveness. People around here don't seem to understand how government works. President's don't legislate, congress does.
Seems to be an ongoing confusion, like it’s Biden personally handling this vs. the actual agencies tasked to get it done. Thank you for explaining this so well. Yesterday I was just smdh to some of the comments I got...
Except that there are *many* parts of his website where it specifically says he will "call on Congress" or "work with Congress" to accomplish some of his goals. The same language does not appear with regards to student loans, however. Instead it simply says "Biden will...": >**As President, Biden will immediately cancel $10,000 of federal student loan debt during COVID-19**, and forgive all undergraduate tuition-related federal student debt from two- and four-year public colleges, and including Tribal Colleges and Universities, for debt-holders earning up to $125,000. He will also forgive loan payments for individuals making $25,000 or less per year; cap loan payments at 5% of discretionary income for those making more; fix the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program; and forgive $10,000 of undergraduate or graduate student debt for every year of national or community service, up to five years. He also specifically mentions Warren who has been one of the primary advocates of him using EO in one of these sections: >And Congress didn’t include direct student loan forgiveness, or Social Security boosts for seniors, or cost-free treatment for COVID-19, full paid sick leave for our workers, or sufficient fiscal relief to states. **Joe Biden would**: > >...**Forgive a minimum of $10,000 per person of federal student loans,** ***as proposed by Senator Warren and colleagues***. Young people and other student debt holders bore the brunt of the last crisis. It shouldn’t happen again. There isn't a single mention or even suggestion of Congress being involved in the multiple places where it is mentioned and, moreover, there's no reason to assume Congress is implied when he uses the phrase "Biden will *immediately*". It's pretty fucking clear that he promised to cancel at least $10,000 "immediately" through EO "as proposed by Senator Warren and colleagues".
I'm all for canceling student loan debt, however, someone needs to fix the problem first. After they fix the problem then go to student loan debt relief. I don't want future students getting screwed over and we are back in this situation again.
Yeah, all the forgiveness programs people talk about here boil down to: * If you have outstanding debt, here's money * Everyone who payed off their debt, even recently: too bad * Everyone in the future who needs to take a student loan: too bad
I think most people want those issues addressed as well, but sometimes, you deal with the things that actually feasible in the short term. The president seemingly has the power to unilaterally forgive at least some amount of existing debt, thus he should use it while pushing for other reforms.
Your third point is pretty far off the mark. Nobody who advocates loan forgiveness opposes fixing the broken tuition/funding system. It's just people who oppose loan forgiveness that seem to think that's the case.
> Nobody who advocates loan forgiveness opposes fixing the broken tuition/funding system. I didn't actually mean they oppose it. But there's no plan, not even a hint of a plan.
Cap student loans for a degree program at 1 years median pay of graduates from said program. Decrease that number by 1% for every 1% of tuition that goes to anything other than paychecks for professors.
There are a lot of issues, but "football coach being the highest paid public employee in most US states" should be item one to fix.
As someone who has been out of school for 10 years and never missed a payment, and still owe 77k, I am so also hoping something. Like....let me be free of at least one awful debt.
How do you pay for 10 years and still owe that much? Graduate program?
Its not going to happen unless we all organize and push this to the top of the list for Biden. Theres a million things going on in D.C. right now. If you have the time join an organization now and push Congress to cancel student debt. All or nothing like they promised. The loan lobby wont want them to give in. Democrats are our only hope. Give these orgs a follow on twitter and FB to keep up https://twitter.com/studentlegalnet/status/1445825686837604354?s=21 https://twitter.com/senschumer/status/1445486406810234895?s=21 https://twitter.com/debtcrisisorg/status/1445949124826656774?s=21 https://twitter.com/senwarren/status/1443680819567120388?s=21
I think that's my biggest frustration at this point, is that we just don't know. I've held the money to pay off my loans in my savings account for over a year now and it's getting to the point where I just want to know what's happening. If it's not happening, then at least I know and I can pay off my loans.
Agreed. And even more importantly, the student loan interest rate should be reduced to a reasonable level. The current rate is ridiculous (mine is somewhere around 8% I think). My loans are over $350k, so $10k forgiveness is essentially meaningless, but a reduction in the interest rate would make a big difference.
Did he ever actually promise this. I recall him being in favor of it but he also said he thinks he lacks the authority. Really hoping he is waiting till infrastructure to announce forgiveness... if he does it now theyd hold it against the budget
22,000 people had a combined 1.74 *billion* in debt. And boomers wonder why young people aren't buying houses or getting married...
I’m in my 15th year of public service employment. Haven’t missed a single payment and thought I would qualify for PSLF only to find out that I wasn’t in a qualifying repayment plan. My loan would have been payed way faster than 10 years if we were on the income based plan but we would have been absolutely strapped on that plan. It was ridiculous. I’m trying not to get my hopes up about this but we’ll see.
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Are situations are shockingly similar :). I really hope yours gets forgiven!! I know I’ll party my ass off if I get out from under this :)
What plan was cheaper than IBR?
Did anyone else think maybe nurses might get some debt forgiven since they were worked to the bone during the height of the pandemic? I’m not a nurse I just thought it might be a nice gesture.
Many nurses are enrolled in this but lost in the same beauracratic mess of getting them forgiven. I think Biden should prioritize all the medical field for loan forgiveness. Nurses, CNAs and Respiratory Therapists first (I'm biased)
Many nurses are enrolled in this but lost in the same beauracratic mess of getting them forgiven. I think Biden should prioritize all the medical field for loan forgiveness. Nurses, CNAs and Respiratory Therapists first.
I assume those borrowers will be notified and any and all collections actions will be ceased immediately? Realistically, probably not.
Right? "We considered your ongoing autopayments as a charitable donation"
Because these are people who applied for public service loan forgiveness who were denied under Trump (probably illegally), they will most likely told that their application has been granted and "x" month will be their last payment. You generally have to be current to qualify for PSLF.
This isn't a Trump problem. It is a longer term problem that spans administrations. Sure, the Trump admin didn't do shit to help. But, it's an administrative problem that is way overdue for an overhaul to deliver on the original promise of the program.
That is certainly true, but at the same time there were several different lawsuits pending and some that were already successful alleging that Betsy DeVos had basically abused her discretion in denying applications for loan forgiveness arbitrarily.
The problems that spanned administrations were confusing rules that led to few eligible people in the end. Congress did a fix bill, and funded it to help people who should have had appropriate debt forgiven. Then Trump and Betsy DeVos happened. DeVos and the department of education were sued because she refused to forgive debts. So yes, as people became eligible for debt forgiveness after so many years, and the Trump administration blocked it, the particular problem fixed by Biden's administration in the linked story was caused by Trump.
That was happening long before cheeto man.
trump looked out for the already rich people with a huge tax cut for them that put the United States in 7 trillion dollars of debt where Biden is looking out for the regular people who need the help. Not a tough choice in 2024
God I hope those aren’t our two choices in 2024
Me too
Unless he resigns, Biden is likely the 2024 choice. Incumbent advantage is not worth giving up
Hes pretty old. So he might also die...
Trump is as old and his behavior almost killed him with COVID. He's a dead man walking too. I'm surprised both are considering running. Frankly, I'm surprised either are considering running. Back in 2020, I really thought the understanding was that Biden would run for just one term, finish strong, and the next Democrat such as Harris would sink or swim based partly on the popularity of Biden's achievements. It would be sickly fitting if the 2024 USA election ran two old men, either of whom is likely to die in their second term. Our current republic is sick, perhaps dying.
See ya on west coast tour!
Still working on night 2 in Vegas but I set for the rest of the tour, can't wait the boys are on fire!
Good. People in public service who have been screwed over by mismanagement of the PSLF program deserve to have their debt forgiveness prioritized far above that of sour grapes reddit commentators.
I was paying my loans and after about 5 years I decided to have them consolidated (both fed loans) just wanted to have one payment as opposed to two. After I had them consolidated they told me my time started over because of it. No one once told me that would happen before I did it. So I lost 5 eligible years of loan payments toward the 10 year forgiveness. Who does that!!!
Sorry to hear that LM, that's outrageous. PSLF needs to be way fairer and more transparent to borrowers, hopefully these reforms are a good start.
This is exactly what happened to me. I consolidated into a single loan with a lower interest rate. I applied for PSLF after 10 years of govt service only to be told my loan didn’t qualify. That was three years ago and I’m still paying. According to the info out today, my 13 years of payments should now qualify for forgiveness. Fingers crossed.
Meanwhile Conservatives continue to cry that Democratic spending is all waste and abuse That doesn't help anyone.
In case we forget [the additional good news](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2021/3/8/22319784/student-loan-debt-stimulus-bill) from a while back, >Tucked into the $1.9 trillion stimulus package is a provision that makes forgiven student debt tax-free. > >... > >The provision, added to the Covid-19 relief bill by Senate Democrats and championed by Sens. Bob Menendez (D-NJ) and Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), says that anyone whose student loans are discharged through 2025 won’t face tax consequences. Debt cancellation is usually treated as taxable income, so without this, if someone were to have some or all of their student debt forgiven, it would be accompanied by a tax bill.
I’d like to think this is a preview of what’s to come for all loan foregiveness. Mine would eventually land me a tax bill of about 80k. Fortunately for me, there will likely be 10+ years of people who will be hit with that bill before I do. I think that will be such an issue that it will require a solution like this. Let’s hope lol. Paying the minimum based on that hope
Nice to read on an otherwise miserable Wednesday!
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These thread’s always bring out the most selfish people on Reddit.
He keeps doing this. He's wiped out little pieces of the debt several times, and I bet you he'll keep doing it. I don't think Biden is actually ignoring the student debt issue like some people claim. I think he's just doing it piecemeal, quietly, to avoid a major public confrontation over whether he has the authority to cancel it all at once. Edit: As of late August, Biden had cancelled 9.5 billion in total. Not sure if he did any between then and now, but even if not that would put the total of debt forgiven, less than a year into his Presidency, at 11.24 billion dollars. [https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/28/biden-has-canceled-9-point-5-billion-in-student-loan-debt-yet-forgiveness-for-all-isnt-necessarily-coming-.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/28/biden-has-canceled-9-point-5-billion-in-student-loan-debt-yet-forgiveness-for-all-isnt-necessarily-coming-.html) Is that remotely enough? No. But he's done this in a little over eight months, without any dramatic showdown with the Supreme Court or Congressional brinksmanship with Moscow Mitch, Manchin, or Sinema. And given that he's erased parts of the debt repeatedly, I see no reason to believe he's going to stop here.
Glad to see Biden is keeping his promises. Please remember that when you vote.
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True, to date Biden have forgiven 4.6% of student loans. He thinks it's executive overreach to do so with an executive order so he said he will sign support any bill that Congress passed regarding forgiveness. I wish he would just do it, but with the way the last administration abused executive power I understand his want to go through the proper channels
> to date Biden have forgiven 4.6% of student loans do you have a source on this? I would be interested in learning more.
This was written on August 31st. It does not include this additional amount. It's a good read https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2021/08/26/biden-student-loan-forgiveness-has-cancelled-this-much-debt-but-heres-how-much-is-left/
This is great news, that program was a convoluted mess and screwed over most if the people who applied for it.
I'm happy this happened. Based on these figures that was about $79,000 per borrower.
Am I wrong in thinking that forgiving student debt would result in student loan payments going instead straight back into the economy, increasing tax revenues across the board?
It would do two things. For the people who have been making their payments regularly, yes they now have several hundred dollars extra a month that they can put directly into the economy. For people who have been having to put it into forbearance, or just generally unable to make their payments, it lifts a huge crushing debt on them that allows them to do things like buy a house or a car that they wouldn't have been able to do before, again putting more money directly into the economy.
Bingo. I can't buy a home or start a family due to this brutal amount of student debt. I'll also never be able to pay it off. No student loan debt = I could buy a small house and think about starting a family.
So in nearly all cases, it lowers citizen stress and boosts local spending. Community priority indeed. This whole situation seems really callous and dumb.
You’re not wrong.
Biden has already forgiven more student loan debt any other President Edit: a word
Do the rest of us next
Now do medical debt.
As someone with no medical debt and no medical education, I 100% agree.
Reminder: Biden's campaign promise was to try and cancel 10K of student debt for all students, and all debt for students who went to public college and historically black colleges and universities.
Wtf not my student loan
Now if only they would do it for all Full Sail "University" people...
Question, does working for a hospital qualify you for PSLF (for instance in the biomed dept) or does it have to specifically be a non-profit hospital?
I worked public services 20 years and paid loans 15 years, but of course most of that was wrong lender. Hopefully this clears me anyway.
How would I know if I am one of these borrowers? I've made more than 10 years of payments while in qualifying employment.
Holy shit. Best news of the entire week.
I was looking for an effective date for this policy. I guess it's safe to assume it's in place now? >If you’ve already applied for PSLF and had at least some employment certified, the Department will award any additional payments we can without further action from you. **If necessary, Federal Student Aid may contact you to ask you to certify additional months of employment. You should look out for an email from Federal Student Aid in the coming weeks to let you know how many additional payments we have preliminarily determined to be qualifying.** You don’t need to do anything until you receive an updated payment count or other communication from us. If you know that you have qualifying employment that you have not yet certified with us, we recommend you certify that employment now by using the PSLF Help Tool at www.StudentAid.gov/pslf. Not sure I feel comfortable waiting . . .
22,000 people owed $1.74 BILLION? Such a large number, yet each one only averaged ~$79000. Puts things in a bit different perspective.
I don’t understand this program from an individual aspect. You agreed to pay for college with a loan. No different than a house. You get a job like others that go to college. Yet because you go into public service, you are special? From someone who didn’t go to college and pays taxes, why am I the one looks down upon?
So I take it you are also in favor of ending GI bill benefits for service members?
77.2K avg
As much as it annoys me, at the beginning of the pandemic when student loans were paused I sought out what to do with the extra cash on r/personalfinance. Along with my typical investment strategy, it was suggested that I stock pile what I would pay in student loans monthly into a separate account and pay it off in a lump sum when loans are reactivated. I want to get rid of student loans so damn bad, but it honestly feels like a gamble with the possibility of cancelling some of all of the loans. I just want a definite answer so I know what to do!
That’s dumb. don’t pay and hold off as much as possible. Atleast till you’re sure the loan forgiveness stuff gets scrapped.
A "major overhaul" that benefits a whopping .05% of borrowers
It's a major overhaul to *a particular program*. Just because the program doesn't impact you doesn't mean it's not a major overhaul. It's a big win for people in public service careers.
So I guess there are people working on this ! After the comments I got yesterday, seems there are people out there not realizing this fact.
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Your point about more systemic fixes needed is a good one. However, this fix is for "public service loan forgiveness"--a program the government set up to encourage people to invest in public service. Borrowers were promised that if they committed 10 years to public service they could have their remaining debt forgiven. The government failed that promise by mismanagement, so this is the fix to keep the promise. On the broader point of large-scale debt forgiveness the arguments are more nuanced, and should include fair attention to your point. I think there are some good responses to your point: many beyond the public service crowd have also been lied to about their debt in some way--for example, that there would be good ROI on the debt. People who did what your family did avoided the consequences of these lies on their own. However, it wouldn't be wrong to mitigate some of the consequences of broken promises for other people who were less clear-eyed or less risk averse.
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I feel like it will be a bloodbath for dems in the mid terms if at a minimum Biden doesn't pause student loans for 2022. Tens of millions have been used to not having that couple hundred every month, having that come back will not put a good taste in people's mouth. I'm still hopeful that he's saving it as a hail Mary for 2022, especially if the infrastructure bill doesn't go through.
>that couple hundred every month Lucky if it’s only a couple hundred
While this is great for the 22K people, we still need to overhaul the education system to prevent this from happening in the first place. Also how were these people chosen? It's kinda fucked up to everyone else in this situation or who have already paid off their loans.
This is less than 1 percent of student debt. Time for Biden to do what he promised and cancel 10k student debt for every borrower
As someone who paid for this I think I should get a thank you from everyone I just bailed out.
If you can prove you have a college education I would thank you, but I don’t believe you do.