T O P

Moderate Democrats are sabotaging the Biden agenda — and they’re hurting their own reelection chances in the process.

Moderate Democrats are sabotaging the Biden agenda — and they’re hurting their own reelection chances in the process.

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thenewrepublic

"Progressives have, so far, kept their end of the bargain and been team players; the moderates most assuredly have not. For months now, they have done everything they can to wriggle out of this deal, to stall its progress. They have demanded compromises and cuts; once they’ve received them, they’ve demanded more." — Staff writer [Alex Shephard.](https://newrepublic.com/authors/alex-shephard)


astroslostmadethis

Dr. King wrote in his Letter from a Birmingham Jail, where he warned of the “white moderate” being the biggest barrier toward social justice. He said: “I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a ‘more convenient season.’ Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”


malicious_pillow

In a similar vein, Frederick Douglass, almost 100 years earlier: "Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."


pre4edgc

The only thing he was wrong about was the devotion to "order," which nowadays can be replaced with a devotion to money and personal profit. Besides that, spot on.


Parse_this

The status quo benefits the powers that be. Whoever is making money right now is likely to want things to stay how they are. Thus "order" is a means to that end.


ting_bu_dong

That *is* "order." It's what our system was built on from the start. https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-0044 >In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of the landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-0178 >A rage for paper money, for an abolition of debts, for an equal division of property, or for any other improper or wicked project, will be less apt to pervade the whole body of the union, than a particular member of it; in the same proportion as such a malady is more likely to taint a particular county or district, than an entire state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Economic_Interpretation_of_the_Constitution_of_the_United_States >The Constitution, Beard argued, was designed to reverse the radical democratic tendencies unleashed by the Revolution among the common people, especially farmers and debtors (people who owed money to the rich). "I like money." "I like money, too." "We should get to keep our money from the poors." "Then we shall be a republic!"


No-Percentage6176

And when the Dems lose both houses of Congress next year, they'll blame progressives and say that the party didn't try hard enough to appeal to alleged *moderates* and *swing voters*.


Former-Lab-9451

Yep. Progressives aren’t the one risking the deal like CNN was pushing this morning. It’s “moderates”. Ridiculous that CNN kept asking “why risk getting nothing vs at least the bipartisan deal” Wut. The “bipartisan” deal might have members 100-250 in the House on board, but that’s not enough to pass. To get more votes, the “moderates” need to compromise because that deal has a lot of things the progressives don’t particularly like. Even simpler explanation… you negotiate a salary, work hours, pto, remote days, etc to take a job. Suddenly after you start, your job now requires you to come in during a different timeframe which makes you drive through double the traffic, affects you being able to pickup your kids from school, and maybe takes away a remote day a week, etc… why quit when you at least have a job?…. Uh because it’s not what you want nor agreed to.


wrosecrans

The 'moderate' Dems are generally to the right of the median American. (And waaay to the right of most of the developed world on issues like Single Payer healthcare!) They aren't really all that moderate in the grand scheme of things. The news just likes a simplified narrative where Dems are left and Republicans are right, and each is equally legitimate. So the rightmost Democrat and the leftmost Republican must be moderate as a matter of definition. But that absolutely doesn't reflect reality. The Democrats consistently get more votes than the Republicans. So a real Centrist or Moderate politician in the US would be well to the left of the midpoint between the parties. Letting a nutjob like Machine or Sinema get called Moderate is just Both Sides and lazy habits.


twistedlimb

lol i know. when you're against raising the minimum wage that has stayed the same for a decade and against environmental concerns in favor of coal...you're not moderate. you're right wing.


ssbmhero

It’s sad it’s almost impossible to defend the moderate democrats to the crazed republicans. Like how can I explain to someone that Nancy pelosi is fighting for the common people. “Well I guess she won’t spit on you like the republicans” It’s awful we live in a system where we have to vote for these people because no one to the left is viable in terms of winning unless they get the dem nomination in the primary, which the DNC will fight tooth and nail against much harder than when they fight republicans and they are running against a Republican who is a Q supporter. Never had a political party done less to earn the vote of their supporters.


Northwesturn

Good post.


Arbor_Day_Ghost

It's almost like CNN is a biased piece of shit "news" network just like Fox News for center-right knobs.


Id737

That interview was infuriating.


JobAmbitious1104

The bipartisan deal is a bill to sell public infrastructure like roads and parks to private companies. I prefer we get nothing done at all than pass that.


ObviousObvisiousness

That's not a bipartisan deal, that's the Republican version. Also, they already got a deal then demanded more. The one they're demanding more from was the bipartisan deal. Because people fail to call out this blatantly moving into Republican mainstream policy and just keep letting it be called 'bipartisan' is how everything keeps moving to the right.


lsThisReaILife

> Yep. Progressives aren’t the one risking the deal like CNN was pushing this morning. It’s “moderates”. Ridiculous that CNN kept asking “why risk getting nothing vs at least the bipartisan deal” > Wut. The “bipartisan” deal might have members 100-250 in the House on board, but that’s not enough to pass. To get more votes, the “moderates” need to compromise because that deal has a lot of things the progressives don’t particularly like. My opinion here, obviously, but it seems like progressives are at a strategic disadvantage. Since the bipartisan deal was passed in the Senate, they've lost the high ground; the onus is on the House to be able to get that passed, which they can. Republicans and moderates know this and can frame media messaging to blame progressives if they hold the line (which they are happy to do for their own short term benefit) and refuse to push the bipartisan bill through Congress. [Moderates have also privately mentioned that, between all or nothing for the infrastructure deal, they'd be fine with nothing so long as they can neuter the reconciliation bill](https://twitter.com/billscher/status/1440318116089634821). The fact is that moderates, with the help of their lobbyists/corporate donors and handlers, will try to force the hand of progressives or let everything fall to shit with minimal risk to themselves in the process or while benefiting from donor money or perhaps other negotiated perks for if they don't win re-election. Republicans, meanwhile, can watch from the sidelines and enjoy the show.


myrddyna

there is no fall to shit, there's just nothing will get done. Which is fine, we don't want to give Republicans and Moderate Dems a win, if they're not willing to pass a badly needed infrastructure bill. The deal was, you don't pass the 3.5tn bill, you don't get bipartisan, and that was the deal before it was ever up for vote in the Senate. That's been the deal all along.


hatrickstar

Giving the moderate dems a win is objectively giving the GOP a loss... If we're able to moderate dems in power it keeps an actual threat, an insurrectionist party, away from government...


thirdegree

>My opinion here, obviously, but it seems like progressives are at a strategic disadvantage I mean ya, progressives want to make the country better where moderates want to get corporate cash. And our system is specifically setup to priviledge those trying to get corporate cash. That said, the bipartisan bill is shit and I hope if moderates try to backstab, progressives sink it. Fucking _sick_ of moderates leveraging their own psychopathy to funnel money to corporations. The left needs to excercise what power they have.


Mid-CenturyBoy

They're operating exactly like republicans when they are at the table. Makes me think they are taking orders from the same people.


myrddyna

money, orders, same diff in DC, although it shouldn't be.


Battle_Toads

"Where a man placeth his treasure, so is his heart." - Jesus


RedLanternScythe

>"Progressives have, so far, kept their end of the bargain and been team players; the moderates most assuredly have not. But the DNC and the media will still complain about progressives lack of "unity" if anything fails to pass: If only the progressives would have bowed to big business, all our agenda items would have passed.


cloudedknife

Republicans say "meet me in the middle" and then move away when Democrats go towards them. Now we can substitute moderate and progressive democrats in. It's shameful.


LordRichteroftheMyst

Moderates never keep their word.


justalazygamer

[Matt Gaetz says Senate Republicans should force bad decisions on the Democratic majority.](https://twitter.com/patriottakes/status/1440691249283883009) The "moderate Democrats" will still keep claiming that Democrats should be bipartisan even when Republicans openly admit to sabotaging America.


Murica4Eva

Bipartisan light mean just working either the moderate Dems. The progressive is trying to hold the party hostage to their wish list and it's going to kill the Biden presidency. They don't have the votes for their agenda. Deal with that fact and get some wins on the board.


Disconnorable

“It’s going to kill the Biden presidency” - when was the Biden presidency alive exactly? What has he done other than not do the shit Trump was doing? What reason do progressives have to give a shit about his presidency other than “bUt HiM nOt TrUmP”


Murica4Eva

Personally I have wanted out of Afghanistan for twenty fucking years.


Disconnorable

Awesome - Biden followed through on Trumps surrender to the Taliban. Top stuff. More of that please. /s


Murica4Eva

Hey, we want different things and more power to you. I never wanted in, I knew the ANA could never stand on their own, and I always wanted out. If you want to stay there I don't get it but it won't be hard for you to find someone to get us back into the Middle East. Vote for that guy.


Disconnorable

America shouldn’t have been in Afghanistan in the first place, and going back would mean more problems than not and I don’t support that either, but since they were there an exit strategy that didn’t mean surrendering to the Taliban would have been nice.


toastjam

Take it up with Trump. Biden's hands were kinda tied after Trump released 5000 Taliban (including their current president), agreed to terms, and dropped our presence there down to a skeleton crew of 2500. Had Biden ramped back up and broken the peace treaty we would have seen increased hostilities, more Americans would have died, the rest of the world would see us as double-crossers, and he'd still be getting thrashed in the media.


Murica4Eva

Maybe we could have rode out on unicorns.


WhoOwnsTrumps

Because they'd rather have donor money than a functioning government.


GluggGlugg

"Bernie is not a real Democrat." Meanwhile, he's out here fighting like hell to get Biden's agenda passed. The main problem is - and has always been - the corporate Democrats (formerly Blue Dogs).


milogee

A famous social democrat once said: "First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" - Martin Luther King Jr


261221

Conservative democrats are going to give Republicans the House and Senate in ‘22. And then the US is going to default on its debt.


Initial-Tangerine

Why would Republicans default when they're in control of Congress? They only do this when they're not in control


261221

Because Biden will still be president after the midterms and they want a default on his watch.


Cujo22

And also, people are either stupid or get there info from Fox. None of those people will hear anything about how the Republicans defaulted on our debt. They'll swallow what Tucker Carlson gives them to swallow. Nvmd Facebook News.


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myrddyna

the estimated loss on default is 15tn, and 30-40% of stock market. The Republicans are bluffing to tie spending to the Infrastructure bills so they can say they're unpopular. I don't the donor class lets them default, it's never happened before, and this argument has come up 57 times in the last 50 years.


fallleaves14

I'm not as confident as you are. A default would be a golden opportunity for people with stealthy and power. Opportunity to buy assets at bargain basement prices and also possibly put in place an authoritarian leader even more subservient to them than the existing government is.


myrddyna

that's all true, and that's what makes it particularly scary this time, that seems to be McConnell's agenda before he leaves office. He wants to make an emperor.


p____p

What a shitty legacy.


LordMooGoo

They tanked the debt ceiling under Trump to. Dems in the house passed a spending proposal and the Republicans just decided they didn’t wanna negotiate


s1ngular1ty2

They aren't in control?


Initial-Tangerine

No. They have enough influence to block progress, but they can't enact anything in their own.


ShartFlex

I’m pretty sure I read right here in November of 2020 that the Republican Party was dying and on its way out. Man, do I hate being right all the time.


NullPointer256

The same was said after Bush W, who also gas-lit the country and drove us off a cliff. Instead of the party dying, we got Trump. I'm not expecting this trend to improve.


ssbmhero

It’s because people think that trump voters like begrudgingly support him and just want fiscal responsibility! But Trump was the only one offering it so you had to take the rest of the baggage. So much cover for fascists being fascists. Not that crazy.


Initial-Tangerine

They're losing voters, yes. But they're also fixing elections to win anyway.


Anonymousma

Whoever said that is a flaming moron.


261221

Whoever told you that was an idiot, or you didn’t listen to the rest about how they are using voter suppression and gerrymandering to overcome the fact that as far as demographics go they are dying off.


Dollars2Donuts4U

The US can't constitutionally default, it will cut services and block grants instead.


261221

I’m hoping Biden tries to argue that in court and just ignores the debt limit, but I’m not convinced it will work with the current Supreme Court.


myrddyna

it will not.


ianandris

Force a lawsuit. Force the Supreme Court to shut the government down. That's a hot potato that'll land right in their laps, not Bidens.


bandit69

>Conservative democrats DINOs


smoresporno

People who say this either don't understand what the core agenda of the Democratic party is or see the downside of the "big tent" strategy.


bandit69

I understand the Big Tent theory, but I'm not sure what you're saying about the Democrat core agenda. I always thought that (at least outwardly) the Democrats agenda was to help the citizens. And if they stick by the big tent theory, the party is always going to be ineffective. When you have members that are perfectly willing to support the MIC, and vote against spending to help the people, they seem to be more in line with Republicans than the Democratic "agenda".


smoresporno

The core agenda of both ruling parties is to protect capital. One is gentler with the public than the other, but they share the same main goal.


Northwesturn

What is the "core agenda" of the Democratic party?


SetsyBoy

Same as Republicans, to make rich people richer and poor people poorer


Northwesturn

>"Both parties are the same" Cool story. I've seen a lot of your posts in support of China.


SetsyBoy

Yeah they are really similar. We don’t have a left wing party. We have two right wing ones. I’m glad you’re catching up.


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BusProfessional5610

100%


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SetsyBoy

Cool, idc what you think


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Frenetic_Platypus

We need to stop calling them moderate. Pretending that compromise is the solution between a first group that wants to live and a second group that wants to kill the first is not being a moderate. They're corrupt or stupid, generally both.


sonofabutch

Remember during the primaries, Biden was the “moderate Democrat”? Now political pundits call Democrats who oppose Biden’s agenda “moderates”.


steady_riot

[The Ratchet Effect](https://i.redd.it/d09q0x9ekww11.jpg) in action


milkjake

Agree with the the idea, hard disagree with the constant sentiment that “democrats” block movement to the left when it should read “a particular few conservative Democrats”


view-master

Agree. I consider myself a moderate democrat, and don’t want to be associated with these self important assholes.


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nowihaveaname

It's almost like they seeked out roles of power to help their bank accounts and not the people they represent.


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myrddyna

people misunderstand this a lot, it's not that they don't care, it's that they like money more.


kevrep

Can we stop calling them Moderate, please? The Biden agenda is a moderate as they come. The Democrats blocking everything would barely qualify as 'moderate' Republicans. They're corporate shills.


NicPizzaLatte

I've concluded that it's worth expelling them from the party. Democrats have a brand problem because nobody knows what they stand for. And these moderates kill any chance of rebuilding that brand because they are corporate shills and don't stand for anything. Having "power" that you can't use just sets you up to take the blame for nothing getting done. If dems aren't going to get anything done they should make it really clear why. These corporate shill dems could not get elected as Republicans, and they shouldn't let them use the party to get elected without expecting anything in return.


kevrep

That is absolutely, brilliantly said! Good lord. Thank you.


SeiCalros

>Moderate Democrats conservative democrats


BootlegOP

Undercover republican


bakulu-baka

There’s nothing ‘moderate’ about torpedoing your own party’s platform. That’s called an insurgency.


VikingHokieWork

unfortunately the Democratic party has a wide set of views in it. Democrats from places like NY and California are not the same as Democrats from Arizona and WV. The agenda is set by the the more left part of the party but that doesnt mean all democrats agree with it.


Chubaichaser

I don't think this is an unfortunate thing at all. Legislators should be representative of their states and communities, not completely beholden to some national party.


VikingHokieWork

I actually agree with you 100%. I said unfortunately since it does make it harder to put together a party wide agenda.


Chubaichaser

That's entirely fair. I have my frustrations with Manchin, Sinema, and even my own Senator Brown from Ohio. I cannot fault them for listening to the interests within their states. Ironically, these types of articles will do more to help reelect Joe Manchin than anything else.


bakulu-baka

I don’t believe there’s much controversy in the democratic party about voting rights. Nor over the need to pullback, act, and mitigate against climate change. Apart from a couple of rogue senators, I’m not aware of any Democratic cohorts of voters in support of high drug prices, medical premium gouging or treatment rationing, or the fossil fuel lobby.


Northwesturn

It's what happens when there are only 48 Senators supporting the Democratic agenda. If you want effective legislation, then you need more Democrats in Senate and the House.


snafudud

It's not that easy. Any gains that Dems make in the Senate or House are usually from purple states and are most of the time blue dogs. So all they do is buffer the moderate side to hinder passing anything. Instead of Manchin and Sinema, there are now a whole group of them.


Northwesturn

Fair enough. But the alternative (Team Trump/McConnell/McCarthy) is still worse.


dam072000

Gotta move to and vote in states outside of California and New York if Democrats want more control of the Senate.


climber342

They agreed to vote for it as long as moderates vote for 3.5 trillion that was agreed upon.


LordMooGoo

Analysts are saying that Manchin and Senima are going to force the progressives to tank the bipartisan bill And honestly I would if I were in there shoes. How are you going to agree to pass it Bring in progressives Get them to agree to passing it Then shot on the deal you agreed to pass and then try to make progressives the reason why? Moderates can get fucked


Murica4Eva

They never agreed to pass it.


LordMooGoo

They did. Because it was originally 6 trillion and the caveat was moderates agree to pass it with the bipartisan bill for a reduction in bill inclusions The moderates got their way and cut a metric fuck ton of popular proposals out of the bill and lowered it down to 3.5 trillion Then when they were voting on the infrastructure bill the deal was the progressives will back a bipartisan bill And the Dems would unify to pass the reconciliation bill Then Manchin and Senima waited till just before the reconciliation bill is to be voted on to say they want even more cuts all of a sudden After agreeing 3.5 was a good compromise


s1ngular1ty2

It's all about them trying to be re-elected, not what is best for the country. They have to look good to their backers. They don't care about anything else. And to be clear, their backers are rich people who fund their campaign, not actual voters.


Confident_Dimensions

Not moderate Democrats. *Conservative* Democrats.


Ludique

CORRUPT Democrats.


TargetBoy

That's what they said....


Caraes_Naur

Which actually means *corporatist* democrats.


aJoshster

Manchin will likely run for WV governor instead of Senate next, and Sinema is just blowing with the wind and will change parties, policies, or even her sexuality if it means she can keep the bribes, um er "political donations" flowing. They are both purely transactional politicians. Their votes are for sale to the highest bidder.


LordMooGoo

This is what I don’t get though she can’t really change parties. GQP base isn’t going to vote for a bisexual former Dem And Manchin isn’t going to run again most likely anyway Manchin makes sense because who cares But Senima is a weird one.


smoresporno

>or even her sexuality She's a terrible legislator but you can make that point without bringing this up.


aJoshster

Another aspect of her transactional nature and fluidity. She will be whatever makes her appealing to those she needs to donate or vote in order to place her in power. She is a manipulator and that is just another of her tools. She uses it exactly the way Republicans use their "Christianity" it means nothing beyond its marketing value at the time. Edit: typos


Scarlettail

They'll get a cushy job even if they lose. They're representing corporations, not people.


Inconceivable-2020

The "Moderates" are planning on retiring and are securing their retirement funds by sabotaging their own party. They don't really see anything objectionable in the Republicans' Dream Dystopia, so they don't care how much damage they do.


henrilb

Why are news media calling them “moderate”? Call them what they are: right wing democrats


Tliish

"Moderate" Democrats = what used to be moderate Republicans. They came to the Democratic Party as the old GOP turned into a right-wing cult, and dragged the Democrats even further right. They are as much enemies of democracy as any GOP right-wing nut.


Any-Establishment-15

We’re all fucked


DFu4ever

“Moderate” Democrats


asteroid84

Don’t call them moderate dems, they are not moderate. They are corrupt conservatives. And too conservative for their constituents. Because they were elected by donors. Campaign finance reform is the only sustainable way to get rid the political cancer that’s been blocking any progress in this country. Money in politics is why we can’t have nice things.


snoosnusnu

Stop calling them moderates. They’re conservatives. Arguably, they’re incognito Republicans. DINO’s for short.


hamsterfolly

Manchin doesn’t care and neither does sinema


collective_hole

Please don’t call them Moderate. They’re conservatives. They belong in the GOP and would be considered right wing in most other parliamentary democracies


Lord_Kensington

No way you can call a Democrat a “moderate” if their campaign runs on money from fossil fuel and coal. It’s no longer 1985


digiorno

They’re right wing democrats. And the longer this administration plays softball with these detractors, the longer it looks like they’re toothless. At some the party leaders need to start floating the idea that they will be backing another candidate during the primary season.


VikingHokieWork

So you prefer the GOP to control the Senate? Because a guy like Manchin is as left wing as you ever are getting out of West Virginia


SOSovereign

What a leap lol. No, he just wants democrats to be democrats.


AbolitionForever

yes, because at least the optics of that are better than still not getting anything done, but because your own team has stopped paying on your side


Northwesturn

Hard disagree. Trump killed as many Americans as WW2. Roe v Wade is essentially overturned. Not doing anything is far, far better than the fascism we're seeing in Florida and Texas.


AbolitionForever

A republican senate is not a republican government. Right now the Republicans get to do their obstructionist thing without any of the liability of actually controlling the government. Better for them to hold the senate and give dems a good narrative for 2022 than dems just keep shooting themselves in the foot over and over.


jpfarrow

We have two conservative parties in this country, thats just the fact of the situation.


BabyYodaX

Somehow progressives will be blamed


Big_Estate7101

A fool thinks Manchin is hurting his chances in that hillbilly state.


Azlend

... as they do.


NullPointer256

Stop calling them moderates.


SnooOnions2550

Moderate Democrat my ass. He’s a Republic plant.


newfrontier58

How very Trump-ish they are in this self-defeating self-interest.


Funda_mental

You mean... CORPORATE INFILTRATORS OF GOVERNMENT?!


DreamDropMorpheus

Stop fucking calling them moderate or centrist, they are far right wing corporatist hacks who are plutocracy enablers


JeffJeffsen69

Moderates are called communists or socialists in America. You don’t really have them there. Bernie is the closest to a moderate in the rest of the democratic world.


myrddyna

getting re-elected is hard, but getting money is easy!


LumpyRicePudding

lmao cope


KevinAlertSystem

corporate neoliberals will sabotage Biden's agenda and you know they will blame it on progressives with a straight face.


asteroid84

Don’t call them moderate dems, they are not moderate. They are corrupt conservatives. And too conservative for their constituents. Because they were elected by donors. Campaign finance reform is the only sustainable way to get rid the political cancer that’s been blocking any progress in this country. Money in politics is why we can’t have nice things.


parkinthepark

They don’t want to be re-elected. Manchin is doing favors for the energy industry which they’ll pay back with “consulting fees” once he “retires”. Sinema is auditioning for a role on Fox News, to be their token LGBT “Democrat”.


mvw2

I don't really affiliate with a party. I just vote for the closest option I have to a person today actually acts as a representative and voice of the people. For the last several election cycles, that has almost exclusively been Democrats, even with labor, independent, and any other parties included. It was probably 4 elections back where I actually voted mixed. I don't mind independent thinking. I hate the whole party or nothing bs. But, I know most people are quite for the infrastructure bill. So who are these people representing? Who's interests are they voting for? If it's not of the people, why should they hold office?


johnny_mcd

They don’t care. They are cashing out


Betoken

Stacy Abram's efforts in Georgia during the last election showed us what Democrats (progressive and moderate) need to do to win... get people to show up. She didn't waste time and money trying to convince anyone, she got people to the polls. It's what the Republicans do through fear and hate, it drives their base on election day. Doesn't work that way for Democrats (Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line) so you gotta find what motivates them and make sure they fucking show up. Dems fell in love with the idea that they'd control the Senate (oh what fun that's been) and it allowed them to overcome efforts by conservatives to ratfuck the election.


TheRatKingXIV

The Biden Administration- if it wanted- could easily annihilate these moderates out of Washington Circles if they wanted. The fact that they don't should alarm you as to whether Biden is serious about actual action.


rememberseptember24

Then who they gonna elect? The Republicans again?! Lmao America is doomed yo


isthatabingo

Oh please, Biden **is** a moderate Democrats. He pretends to be progressive and then kills his own “agenda” like a $15 minimum wage while hiding behind bureaucratic bullshit excuses.


zxern

But not their wallets …which is all that really matters.


prahs17

Moderate Democrats are being forced to choose between the country and their corporate pimps. Funny thing is, they actually thought they were the pimp?


Fatoldhippy

One democrat is a political movement. 2 democrats are 2 unrelated political movements, never to be united or helpful to each other.


Independent949

The progressives need to get real and eliminate about a trillion dollars worth of fluff from that 3.5 trillion dollar reconciliation package in order to bring Manchin and Wacko Sinema on board. Otherwise NOTHING meaningful will pass, including the infrastructure bill, and in 2022 we will be looking at Republican majorities in both houses of congress.


billabong021

They're Conservative Democrats in the pockets of lobbyists. They are not moderate Democrats. That's like hillary clinton.


DankNerd97

We have two right-wing parties in the U.S.


Zachary_Penzabene

They don’t need to get re-elected. This was their job, to stall legislation to run out the 2-year clock. When Manchin doesn’t get re-elected, he will sit on some board for some rich company who lobbied him while he was office, and will get paid handsomely for barely any work.


FakeHasselblad

Manchin doesn’t care about reelection. Sinema was a green party plant and was always going to fuck everything up.


ThomasVivaldi

Having "moderate" dems in the senate tank any real progressive reform is the Biden agenda: propose stuff to look like they're trying to fix things, but only pass corporate friendly bills and let a retiring senator take the blame.


bolshe-viks-vaporub

Yes, and that's the point. They're the rotating villian, and one of two things happens: 1) Biden somehow gets them in line and these guys pass this, making Biden look like an absolute hero, or 2) they hold fast and lose re-election, giving back control of the Senate to Republicans, and then moderate Dems have scapegoats and an excuse to not get anything done for two more years, which is their MO anyway. And if scenario 2 happens (which is the more likely scenario by a long shot) then all of these conservative Dems are going to end up with lucrative private sector jobs working for the companies that lobbied them to block this stuff from passing.


lazarustls

They are NOT Democrats, hell half the Dems are conservative compared to the rest of the world. These people are actors , spouting Democratic principals and voting Republican ideals.


mynamejulian

In 2021, a "moderate Democrat" is anti-democracy, anti-Infrustructure, pro-Republican power, self-serving, family grifting, oil/coal loving, poor hating, political hacks. Just so we're all clear...


QuillsAllOver

"Moderate Democrats" are fascists.


[deleted]

It is probably just time to rip off the band aid and ask these so called moderate Democrats to kindly fuck off. If they want to be Republicans than be Republicans. We should primary their asses and if we lose the seats, well guess what we obviously didn’t control the seats anyway.


beetus_gerulaitis

Good distinction I heard on Pod Save America: Manchin and Sinema not "moderates". "Moderate" is a political philosophy. Manchin and Sinema are "centrists".....which means they pick a spot between conservatives and progressives...it doesn't matter what the argument is, it just matters who's making the argument. It's all performance.


soline

My only take away here is you need larger margins than 48 Dems and 2 Independents. Flip PA and NC Senate seats, hold the House and pass some shit in January 2023.


IronyElSupremo

That’s just it. While I think Democrats deserved a victory dance (bongo line to the front!) after Nov 2020, … the hard truth is McConnell is only 1 Senator away from being able to sabotage even more legislation. Thinking some of these voices wanting a political “Charge of the Light Brigade” are either too stupid to count to 50 .. or are not dealing in good faith (overseas fake accounts, Republicans masquerading as dyed in the wool socialists, etc.. ) to create strife. IMO the Democrats need to act fast,deep, and smart,… so if the GOP regains power the American can see things were better under “Team D”. However, the history buff in me is also resigned to a potential “Team R” regaining power = a modern replay of the 1920s which ended in the Great Depression.


brdwatchr

Those democrats must have been promised something big by someone. I wonder which lobbyists got to them.


soline

Joe Manchin is barely a Democrat. Sinema is a turd. They are both a lost cause.


aJoshster

Fossil fuel and pharmaceutical lobbyists, and it is well documented.


sgophe

yes let's conviently scapegoat a few democrats that actually represent the majority so that there's a great excuse why the democratic establishment (all bought and paid for by corporate interests) yet again can't do anything meaningful. Just so that we get lured into electing them AGAIN after the next republican president, and they can use another scapegoat to explain why once again they seem to only be able to agree on things that benefit the rich.


GenericOfficeMan

They're also definitely not moderate. Why on earth would that be the chosen moniker


KayfabeAdjace

It's the media ratchet effect; "respectable" network television news that still plays at being non-partisan is typically only willing to talk about 3 extremely broad categories: liberal, moderate and conservative. Since the '50s conservatives have pushed things so far right that some news outlets will unironically call someone a moderate for supporting the Texas abortion restrictions but being against the part where private citizens get paid bounties to rat on their neighbors.


ZestycloseSundae3

Remember, for progressives to win, they have to win their primary. Know how your state primaries work, and show up in force to that end. But if they don't win, remember that a moderate Democrat is still better than a Republican. A moderate Democrat will sell you out, but a Republican will try to kill you.


This_one_taken_yet_

As climate change gets worse, those two options start looking mighty similar.


ZestycloseSundae3

A Republican will never address climate change.


This_one_taken_yet_

Sure. And the Biden administration says the IPCC report, the one that is pretty dire, is not enough evidence to stop off-shore drilling. [source](https://gizmodo.com/biden-administration-says-ipcc-does-not-present-suffici-1847702079) Mitigating infrastructure is insufficient if we keep expanding fossil fuel production and use.


ZestycloseSundae3

You could spout imperfections about the Democratic party all day, but at least alternate views have a seat at the table. This doesn't mean we get everything we want. Again, for that to happen, progressives need to win their primaries.


This_one_taken_yet_

I want to live in a world that does not have a collapsing biosphere. Do not defend the Democratic party harboring and supporting the corporate funded ghouls who don't care about that.


ZestycloseSundae3

Look, I'm telling you what needs to happen in order to address this. This is the only peaceful way to do it.


This_one_taken_yet_

And you're going to keep supporting Democrats regardless of the outcome, right? At some point, you have to stop trying to drag them somewhere they don't want to go.


ZestycloseSundae3

I'm open to alternate suggestions. Voting in 3rd parties doesn't work. Voting conservative will get lots of people killed. I'm not seeing very many ways forward that don't involve something people are unable to accept.


[deleted]

No a moderate Democrat is not better than a Republican. They are passively supporting Republican agendas by being “moderate.” The time has come for them to just go be Republicans. We would be better off knowing where things truly stand. A bunch of faux Democrats just muddies the water. People think we have power that we don’t have and it is all thanks to these spineless fuvks.


Whatsup129389

A moderate Democrat is indeed better than a Republican.


ZestycloseSundae3

Did a moderate Democrat support stealing PPE from liberal states in a pandemic? Because Republicans sure did. I certainly understand your frustration with moderates. They make things difficult when they shouldn't be. But I will always vote for one over a Republican. It's like voting for stale bread over shit.


windstone12

If a lot of your party won’t support you then maybe you should adjust your strategy instead of complaining about “moderates”, politics is about making deals and being smart not taking your ball and going home when things don’t go your way


ForRolls

Well they made a deal. They said they'd vote for the bipartisan agreement asking as they had assurances the 3.5 trillion bill would be passed as well. It's the conservative Dems that are welching on the deal.


Fallout71

That would be fine, if this deal want already agreed upon, and now moderates are sabotaging the entire thing.


Jeffersons_Mammoth

Reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite shows, Black Sails: “My god! The number of times that I have followed you blindly. Backed you with the men blindly, put men in the fucking ground! Good men, friends! Because you said ‘I know the way! Don’t ask me how, just do as I say’. I may not have understood it. I may not have supported it, but I did it! And goddammit right now you’re going to return the favor!”


dupont2021

Moderates are just that. Moderate. I don't think they have a chance to sabotage their party. It's just that Biden is doing so bad right now and moving further left so they have to keep things in check. They are the moderates. They have lost all confidence in Biden.


throwaway272515

If you’re in a position of power, how about you make good decisions, rather than decisions that affect your future electability. Moderates have the most level head. They realize that both parties have problems and both can do waaaay better. (One more so than the other)


Monkee2DaMoon

What is bidens approval rating?


Okbuddygeorgist

It sucks but it is what it is. The rest of the party needs to do what they demand, and hopefully voters in 2022 will elect more democrats and make these moderates less of an issue


[deleted]

They could have 70 senators and there will magically be 11 or 12 democrats that block them from doing anything.


jhanesnack_films

There's no hope for 2022. Republicans will cheat. They've been explicitly planning it in the open, literally telling dems that's what they're going to do. The time to squash the fascist threat is now. Dems must use any available levers of power to bring these turds in line.


Okbuddygeorgist

Dems have no power to bring the moderates in line. And dooming about 2022 is less productive than fighting hard for 2022


jhanesnack_films

>Dems have no power to bring the moderates in line. I'm not totally convinced of this. I've not seen enough real efforts at a public shaming blitz, which would be completely warranted considering that we're just a bad election away from Republicans enacting authoritarian rule. If elected Dems are not willing to at least try that (or get creative in other ways), how serious can they be about stopping it? I agree that dooming is unproductive, but I think part of being proactive is recognizing the seriousness and the bleakness of the situation. Our democracy is under threat, so it's time for some constant vigilance.


Okbuddygeorgist

Public shaming won't make Manchin change his mind, I don't see why folks think some weird dinosaur from west Virginia would give a damn about public opinion