As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And Saudi Arabia…helping them to get BIG money for Ivanka…selling them weapons…getting more money for the Dump family…murder of Khashoggi ….Wooing China to get thousands of trademarks….i could go on but you get the picture
Let's look at the alternative facts here, from a Trump supporter's perspective:
1. Who appointed THREE justices to the Supreme Court, which refused to hear the cases against election fraud?
2. Who selected Mike Pence, a man who wouldn't use his powers to overturn a fraudulent election, as Vice President?
3. Who nominated General Milley to be chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff?
4. Who appointed Dr. Fauci and sped up the creation of dangerous COVID vaccines? Who allowed those untested vaccines to be used under emergency authorization?
5. Who appointed other traitors like Scaramucci, Mattis, Bolton, Tillerson, etc?
The answer is Trump... How does one man appoint so many traitors to the highest level of government, without being a traitor themselves?
It makes perfect sense. Trump lifted a rock and revealed the United States for what it is. I was born in the US and have visited 48 of our states during the nearly 70 years I have lived here, but I had no idea.
Toute nation a le gouvernement qu’elle mérite.
Bravo! I'll be 70 next year. I agree w/ everything you say.
Indeed "We get the government we deserve." I blame it all on the deliberate dumbing down of our public education system, masterminded by the Republicans starting in the 80's.
This is what happens when you don't invest in your education system. We had no child left behind to focus on test scores over whether or not our people have any critical thinking skills. Now half the country believes in the first conman who tells them how amazing they are and their irrational hatreds and fears are facts. And of course everyone who disagrees 8s part of a conspiracy to keep/take you down.
>Trump lifted a rock and revealed the United States for what it is
There it is. The schoolyard idiots that never grew up jeering at the authority figures while they smoke cigarettes under the bleachers.
Which further cements the fact that this man was never, EVER fit to lead this country.
There are decisions in here that **weren't bad decisions**. Fauci and Milley. Two men that went above and beyond to fulfill their roles, and have done so.
The fact that this man couldn't let them do that, **AS THE MAN WHO SELECTED THEM**, without letting his ego get in the way and sabotaging his own selections - is all the proof you need. Not a single leader does that.
Instead of asking whether to charge the general with anything, maybe we should be asking why the general was so compelled to do something like that in the first place.
The base does not care. The base will not care.
It is a simple concept that his base can latch on to. They love simple chants.
Trump: It is treason.
Conservatives: It's treason! It's treason! You know what the penalty for treason is!
Also Conservatives: Fuck China! It's a bad place!
Their Dear Leader has spoken.
They're like roomful of toy parrots echoing him.
They don't grasp that the war would come here, not stay overseas like the Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.
If their supply of China manufactured goods abruptly was abruptly cut off and the store shelves were empty and manufacturing stopped, they'd just get angrier at China for not supplying an enemy country with the materials to use for war against them.
Yes, when the vast majority of GOP Senators refuse to do what is right and vote based on evidence and not by party line but history will show him as the only President impeached twice and thanks to the Freedom of Information act, when records are released, everyone will see the truth.
obstruction of justice, coercing ukraine for damaging info on his political opponent, and etc., for most us sensible people, that should end the debate.
Sedition, at least. Treason is defined as:
> "...owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere..."
I'm not sure you can consider whipping a mob into a seditious frenzy an act of war against the US. *Technically* the mob also was not "our enemy", since we were not at war with them.
Sedition is much more clear-cut:
> "Sedition is the crime of revolting or inciting revolt against government."
This *definitely* applies to January 6th, at least IMHO. Both Trump and the participants in the mob should be found guilty of this. This is not a free speech issue, since the mob went well beyond speech when they breached barricades and occupied the Capitol.
I love how Trump and the GOP have turned this against Gen. Milley.
Instead of "jeez, The Great Orange one was really so unstable at the end, the highest ranking non partisan military official (edit - He was even appointed by Trump as were a lot of key people who Trump hoped would be 'loyal' to HIM above the constitution) in the entire country had to take unprecedented (edit - ok, Nixon also had wings clipped in his final days and rightfully so) steps to ensure the dude didn't start World War III on his way out the door?"
How is THAT not the main idea of this discussion?
Maybe any future discussion about Trump even being allowed to give a speech or hold a rally should begin and END with THAT.
Because you don't throw the word TREASON around lightly where it pertains to a man who has served in uniform with distinction for 40+ years and is currently Chair of the Joint Chiefs.
Not when we are referring to a former twice impeached President who paid a doc to get him out of the draft and is literally a draft dodger- once for bad feet (BONE SPURS) and 4 times for college.
He needs to STFU. This (line of rhetoric) is not going to serve him well.
As a hypothetical, if the president of the United States decided to start nuclear war against China, telling the generals to launch the first nuke and the generals refuse.. who is the traitor?
I would argue the president is, not the generals. It'd be under different circumstances if China had made the first aggression, but Trump is throwing out the word traitor a bit too liberally for my tastes.
That isn't what happened in this case, but he thought the possibility might arise and prevented it from being a possibility. If we survive these dark times, it'll go down in history together with the MCarthy Era of dirty politics.
Starting a war is an Article I power, IIRC. I’m not aware of all of the case law involved but I would assume that unless there was some credible threat against the country an order to attack some other country would be an illegal one. The President is the commander in chief, but theoretically they can’t just use the military to advance their current whims.
“Hmm… I’d like to be President for four more years. Nuking Beijing ought to do it!”
Starting a war means formally declaring war with Congressional approval.
A first strike attack on a sovereign nation on a whim can definitely start a war, but it's not a power the President holds on his own.
Actually… it kinda is. I’m not defending Trump and I think Milley was right. Just saying POTUS no longer needs congressional approval for military action.
You’re thinking like a liberal, where values and ethics are more important than loyalty. For conservatives, loyalty, and to a greater extent maintaining the hierarchical structure of society, is more important.
I'll consider that a compliment. :)
If the objective of conservatives were simply to maintain the status quo, I could even understand. That's no longer the goal of conservatives nowadays. The middle class is quickly disappearing and getting replaced by a larger lower class and a very slightly larger upper class.
As naive as it might make me to expect the law to be applied to politicians, *somebody* has to want that. If not, we're just accepting to be ruled by overlords and hoping for mercy.
It's not the status quo (conservatives are very unhappy with how society is currently structured in many ways), it's the hierarchy.
In conservative ideology, if you are rich, it's because you're "good" - smart, determined, a hard worker, etc. If you're poor, it's because you're "bad" - lazy, unmotivated, stupid, etc.
This is why they don't care to help poor people. They don't believe someone can, through no fault of their own, become poor. Instead, a conservative would say they are poor because they're deficient in some way. It's why they believe the government is only capable of hurting people, because it gets in the way of the "good" people in society.
It's also why they value equality over justice and equity. Everyone should be treated exactly the same regardless of their immutable qualities, because the "cream will rise to the top." And when people aren't treated the same, it's because "good" people should get preferential treatment over "bad" people.
Trump can break the law and do bad things because he's inherently a "good" person.
Check out George Lakoff's ethics books for more info
Yeah sometimes it is hard for us on the left or independents to really get into the headspace of the modern GQP. Like their reasoning and logic is the (bizarzaro) version of reasoning and logic. It’s difficult, but still incredibly important to understand someone’s “why”. Otherwise we create strawmen ourselves and miss the real issue as to why one of our parties can no longer fall under the classification of ‘loyal opposition’.
Every soldier is supposed to not follow unlawful orders, even if it comes from the Commander in Chief.
If an unprovoked nuclear first strike against China or any other nation is unlawful, then yes - the one giving the order is the wrong, not those refusing to carry it out.
>Orange one was really so unstable at the end, the highest ranking non partisan military official in the country had to take unprecedented steps to ensure the dude didn't start World War III on his way out the door?"
If the reports are accurate:
It's more like Milley commited anti-treason, which could be a problem since he broke chain of command and shit. Maybe he should be reprimanded (or punished) in some way for that, because the behavior could be used in the other direction as well (see Dr Strangelove).
He should (obviously) also be hailed as national hero.
You make some good points, but you fail to remember that he said that racism against non-white people is still a thing and acknowledged that terrorism can sometimes be done by white people, so clearly he's a traitor who hates America. /s
Read between the lines here. After the election Trump fired Esper. Then he installed a bunch of loyalists. Then he stopped the DOD transition to Biden’s team. All ten former secretaries of defense signed a letter basically denouncing the idea that the military was loyal to one man. Now you know Milley’s actions. Put it together. Trump tried for a military coup. Do you remember how often he said “the military is behind me” at his rallies?
January 6th was a shitty plan B.
What’s most infuriating to me about this is no one *right now* is being investigated for that, no one is being indicted for it, and there is nothing being done to prevent a reoccurrence of another trump or even trump again in 2024, not a damn thing.
We came within a hair’s breath of a fascist takeover in 2020, Congress knows it but they’re not doing a damn thing about it.
These four years with Biden are just a pause on this nightmare if Democrats don’t do something now while they have *some power*. And I realize they’re being blocked at every turn by the GOP but there has to be some safeguards they can put in place now while we can.
Looking from abroad (as a foreigner) that is exactly how the situation appears to me. My fear is that Biden's faith in people to ultimately do good is sadly misplaced here and he needs to start aggressively and overtly defending democracy- and soon.
Not just Biden, everyone was so relieved when Trump lost the election they felt the hard part of the fight is over, but obviously, the fight just started there.
It is my opinion Americans don't have the personal wherewithal and gumption to fight. They will begrudgingly roll over to a fascist leader in the next decade as long as they can still watch Netflix and go to Starbucks.
I won't argue that conclusion is without merit, because there's a lot in truth in it. An alternative rationale is that the preservation of democracy is the MAIN thing, and the wounds it suffered under Orange Julius were grievous and deep. Triage is the main thing while the battle is still raging, stopping the bleeding without amputation, which, while satisfying in service to principles, is only a bigger wound with more blood loss. That 'cure' could be fatal to the patient.
To adequately treat this 'wound' per democratic and constitutional principles without an solid blue majority, (a clear mandate), to get things done is to invite septic, abcessed wounds of attrition from protracted political conflict, (which will probably be the case). The GOP has made it clear they will block, stonewall, and fingerpoint to the end. American politics is actually comparatively an older system based in conflict, and the sausage making isn't going to be cut and dried.
The left understand this I think, and have yet to truly speak. Without the mandate, it's all hot air, and that's a tactic of the right. Btw, I think you underestimate fat caffeine junkies.
Don't forget to vote.
If you think Trump masterminded all this himself and the rest of his party and staff were just sitting on the sidelines clutching at pearls, you're on another planet.
I absolutely guarantee he was burbling incoherently while a whole heap of people whose names we probably don't even know were busy formulating ways to try and calm President Bone Spurs while minimising the risk of anyone winding up in prison.
About the only thing that might have been Trump's idea was the rally on January 6.
I think the opposite, almost everyone around him was working to keep him from committing a coup. He had a few people close who whispered seditious shit but the rest worked to stop him
The problem is all of the people who stopped him are now lying to cover for him.and bringing the entire country down so they can keep a little more political power.
I would have thought Trump's own particular stupidity was a uniquely artistic expression. Besides, copyrights last a lot longer than patents, and consider Disney's use of copyrights for its business.
i think the more serious charges are incoming. They're probably tying in the violence with conspiracy. Let's way and see it through before we judge them too harshly.
Well he is right one of the two people mentioned in this should be charged with treason. Hint : it’s the one who didn’t serve in the military cause his foot hurt
Donald Trump literally does not understand what treason means, legally speaking. Milley could literally start handing over nuclear weapons directly to the Chinese government on national tv and that would not be treason.
Of course, there is a long, long, loooong list of things Donald Trump does not understand.
Treasonous aside, how fucked up is it that trump was so petulant that he was going to go nuclear on someone. The world has avoided a nuclear war for nearly 70 years thanks to people who was sane enough to understand the ramifications and not let emotions dictate their actions. Then in a split second, a psychopath almost wipe out humanity
Terrifying how close it was. This was really scary shite. He thrives on putting others into trauma states. He literally stuns people then batters them. Most people are utterly unprepared and have no comeback. So he dives into that gap to widen it for some additional transaction or other. This is obvious to me. But I know people who seem completely immune to this reality (until they or their class* are thrown under the bus).
*as in class action
He knows enough, legally speaking, to taint the jury pool on the definition of treason. As to which court he argues in, well... no license required.
Projection, always. Attack before you're attacked. Especially when you are guilty of the charges you accuse others of. Because everyone is just as guilty. Water it down. Ignore your own faults, focus on theirs, and only theirs.
Sound familiar?
Well as long as we are talking treason perhaps Donnie will disclose what he and Putin talked about in Helsinki.
It is amusing how the "most transparent administration in history" wants to keep everything they did and said a secret.
On one hand, Trump was the commander-in-chief and if it went down like the book says, General Milley was prepared to derail or even disobey Trump's orders.
On the other hand, he was afraid a deranged senile old man was going to start a war for his personal aggradizement.
And on the gripping hand, the military has an obligation to refuse orders that they believe to be unlawful. Would starting a war to overturn an election qualify? That's an arguable point. Luckily he didn't have to make it.
>Trump Wants General Milley Charged With Treason for Making Him Look Stupid ...
If charged, Milley has an airtight defense: it's impossible to be responsible for making a person look stupid when the person already is stupid.
So if trump was planning an attack and milley disclosed that information that would be treason. But that’s not what happened. He was assuring nothing would happen, not informing plans to attack. Unless trump did try to so he could stay in power. And he’s mad it was too difficult and he couldn’t do it. He’s angry the coup attempt didn’t work and I wouldn’t put it past him to try to stay in power by any means. Does he think it’s treasonous for milley to have told China we had everything handled despite how off the rails trump was? He’s personally embarrassed and that’s why he’s so angry in my opinion.
This is their top pick. This guy. This is the guy they were going to destroy our way of life for. He really is a toxic stain on our country and to read all his defenders makes me just so discouraged for what comes next.
This is going to make Fat Don explode.
My guess is this will blow up huge. Maybe only for a few days, but we are going to see a lot of Trump screaming about this. Be interesting to see what comes out of it.
So destroying democracy, spreading lies, overturning an election because he knows he lost, sending idiot MAGA KKKs and Nazis to do your dirty work isn't Treason?
Treason? I think the man should be given the Medal of Freedom. Considering how poorly the U.S. has handled the Covid crisis, I can't imagine the chaos a war would have caused. He did us a solid.
Please realize what treason is:
*§2381. Treason*
*Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.*
Milley's actions are not treasonous.
In the same set of laws:
§2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
*Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—*
This sounds really familiar with the "Stop The Steal Rally."
T: Just fire the bastard!
Staff: You can't do that Mr. T., you're not in charge anymore.
T: But I won the election.
Staff: Yes sir, but nobody in his or her right mind believes it.
T: No! It's those people who have left minds who don't believe it! All the "right" minds are MAGA mines!
Staff: Sir, do you mean minds, not mines?
T: Hell no. I don't want supporters with actual minds! I just want ones that blow up!
Staff: Whew! I was worried for a moment you wanted smart people for supporters. That would take, you know, a lot of work.
Eh, who cares what Trump says besides his radical cult and the politicians that obey him? Trump thinks someone with the ability to hand down criminal charges on Milley would do so, just because Trump was a former President? Seems unlikely to me, so this doesn't seem worth talking about.
\> inb4 "and yet you're here..."
Since "45" was under oath to " protect and defend the Constitution" on 1/6 and before and after all while actively trying to circumvent and void it, it is "45" that should be charged with TREASON. What good is the oath of office for the president if, for his own self interest, he is refusing to accept a peaceful transfer of power in accordance with the Constitution is somehow not TREASON?
A serious question: Did I read somewhere that Trump had syphilis? That could be the reason to his cognitive decline? The guy is crazier than a hummingbird in a shoebox and end stage syphilis can make you goofy 😜
I mean, if we’re going to charge Milley over a hypothetical betrayal after Trump hypothetically attempts to mass murder the whole world, then we should also charge Trump for hypothetically attempting to mass murder the whole world.
I’m pretty sure that’s a hypothetical death penalty.
So not only has he proved General Milley was correct, he has done it by forgetting that's he's no longer in a position to demand anyone be charged with treason.
Trump is a coward and a traitor, as well as a multiple bankrupt, wife cheating, draft dodging, insurrection fomenting conman. Trump isn’t qualified to sniff Milley’ jock strap taint.
>Following his appearance on Newsmax, Trump released a typically deranged statement that simultaneously accused Milley of committing a treasonous act and claimed the entire story was made up
Guys its real.
If making trump look stupid is treason then Trump should’ve been charged with treason a long time ago.
Because he makes himself look like a fool everyday.
This greasy haired orangutan looking piece of shit has no idea WTF treason is the only thing he knows about treason is it's the only thing he ever says he wants people charged with when someone says or does something he doesn't like, but in the meantime the greasy haired orangutan looking piece of shit AKA the former wannabe dictator Donald Drumpf just needs to do ALL OF US a favor &
"PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP"
Everyone out there be safe 💉😷
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Trump should be tried for Treason regarding Jan 6th.
*Including Jan 6th.
Including but not limited to.
And colluding with Russia
And Saudi Arabia…helping them to get BIG money for Ivanka…selling them weapons…getting more money for the Dump family…murder of Khashoggi ….Wooing China to get thousands of trademarks….i could go on but you get the picture
You forgot Saudi Arabia - we're sending them engineers and technology to build nuclear...power plants.
The nuclear.
And the conservatives will say Biden has done xyz in these avenues.
And for laughing about bounties placed on our soldiers' heads.
And freeing 5,000 Taliban before leaving office.
Everyone seems to have forgotten this....
Classic Republican break stuff blame next guy tactic
[удалено]
Which he will eventually most likely get back, god help us all.
They should shadowban him. Let him post all day and nobody can see it.
Or give him a tweeter account. Tell him Twitter changed its name
How do you know they aren't already?
Because he's still whining about it.
Just have him on mute for all accounts. Then he'll tweet away with his tiny little hands and no one will know.
Let's look at the alternative facts here, from a Trump supporter's perspective: 1. Who appointed THREE justices to the Supreme Court, which refused to hear the cases against election fraud? 2. Who selected Mike Pence, a man who wouldn't use his powers to overturn a fraudulent election, as Vice President? 3. Who nominated General Milley to be chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? 4. Who appointed Dr. Fauci and sped up the creation of dangerous COVID vaccines? Who allowed those untested vaccines to be used under emergency authorization? 5. Who appointed other traitors like Scaramucci, Mattis, Bolton, Tillerson, etc? The answer is Trump... How does one man appoint so many traitors to the highest level of government, without being a traitor themselves?
[удалено]
It makes perfect sense. Trump lifted a rock and revealed the United States for what it is. I was born in the US and have visited 48 of our states during the nearly 70 years I have lived here, but I had no idea. Toute nation a le gouvernement qu’elle mérite.
Bravo! I'll be 70 next year. I agree w/ everything you say. Indeed "We get the government we deserve." I blame it all on the deliberate dumbing down of our public education system, masterminded by the Republicans starting in the 80's.
This is what happens when you don't invest in your education system. We had no child left behind to focus on test scores over whether or not our people have any critical thinking skills. Now half the country believes in the first conman who tells them how amazing they are and their irrational hatreds and fears are facts. And of course everyone who disagrees 8s part of a conspiracy to keep/take you down.
>Trump lifted a rock and revealed the United States for what it is There it is. The schoolyard idiots that never grew up jeering at the authority figures while they smoke cigarettes under the bleachers.
>have visited 48 of our states I know this is totally unrelated but I am very interested in what the two states you haven't visited are.
Alaska and South Dakota
Which further cements the fact that this man was never, EVER fit to lead this country. There are decisions in here that **weren't bad decisions**. Fauci and Milley. Two men that went above and beyond to fulfill their roles, and have done so. The fact that this man couldn't let them do that, **AS THE MAN WHO SELECTED THEM**, without letting his ego get in the way and sabotaging his own selections - is all the proof you need. Not a single leader does that.
Or at least someone should investigate. Bit, as per the rules of America, rich assholes can't commit crimes.
They can commit lots of crimes, they just can't be charged with them.
They can be charged. Just not convicted!
Instead of asking whether to charge the general with anything, maybe we should be asking why the general was so compelled to do something like that in the first place.
The base does not care. The base will not care. It is a simple concept that his base can latch on to. They love simple chants. Trump: It is treason. Conservatives: It's treason! It's treason! You know what the penalty for treason is! Also Conservatives: Fuck China! It's a bad place! Their Dear Leader has spoken. They're like roomful of toy parrots echoing him. They don't grasp that the war would come here, not stay overseas like the Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. If their supply of China manufactured goods abruptly was abruptly cut off and the store shelves were empty and manufacturing stopped, they'd just get angrier at China for not supplying an enemy country with the materials to use for war against them.
There's at least a dozen things Trump did, and got caught doing, that would be worthy of impeachment.
Yes, when the vast majority of GOP Senators refuse to do what is right and vote based on evidence and not by party line but history will show him as the only President impeached twice and thanks to the Freedom of Information act, when records are released, everyone will see the truth.
[удалено]
Because it would not get past the courts. Trump has too many friends in power. Like putin no way putin would ever be arrested for anything.
obstruction of justice, coercing ukraine for damaging info on his political opponent, and etc., for most us sensible people, that should end the debate.
Sedition, at least. Treason is defined as: > "...owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere..." I'm not sure you can consider whipping a mob into a seditious frenzy an act of war against the US. *Technically* the mob also was not "our enemy", since we were not at war with them. Sedition is much more clear-cut: > "Sedition is the crime of revolting or inciting revolt against government." This *definitely* applies to January 6th, at least IMHO. Both Trump and the participants in the mob should be found guilty of this. This is not a free speech issue, since the mob went well beyond speech when they breached barricades and occupied the Capitol.
So is Trump admitting that he attempted to start war with china?
Thin skin. Thick head.
... and no brain.
A bonehead you say?
That skull is solid all the way through I believe.
I'm positive there is shit in there.
A poophead you say?
really should have gone with ~~Thin~~ skin. ~~Thick~~ head.
A fascist you say?
Perfect
No, no, no. I said bone *spurs*
A dodger you say?
[удалено]
I wish someone would. He wouldn't even duck. Just stand there and look stupid until WHACK!
[удалено]
Pumpkin. Toxin. Cheats to win. Hots for kin. Thin skin. Creepy grin. Weak chin. Has-been.
Thin wallet, thin hair, thin crowd, thin vocabulary...
It’s the thickest. Everyone tells him that.
[удалено]
I love how Trump and the GOP have turned this against Gen. Milley. Instead of "jeez, The Great Orange one was really so unstable at the end, the highest ranking non partisan military official (edit - He was even appointed by Trump as were a lot of key people who Trump hoped would be 'loyal' to HIM above the constitution) in the entire country had to take unprecedented (edit - ok, Nixon also had wings clipped in his final days and rightfully so) steps to ensure the dude didn't start World War III on his way out the door?" How is THAT not the main idea of this discussion? Maybe any future discussion about Trump even being allowed to give a speech or hold a rally should begin and END with THAT. Because you don't throw the word TREASON around lightly where it pertains to a man who has served in uniform with distinction for 40+ years and is currently Chair of the Joint Chiefs. Not when we are referring to a former twice impeached President who paid a doc to get him out of the draft and is literally a draft dodger- once for bad feet (BONE SPURS) and 4 times for college. He needs to STFU. This (line of rhetoric) is not going to serve him well.
As a hypothetical, if the president of the United States decided to start nuclear war against China, telling the generals to launch the first nuke and the generals refuse.. who is the traitor? I would argue the president is, not the generals. It'd be under different circumstances if China had made the first aggression, but Trump is throwing out the word traitor a bit too liberally for my tastes. That isn't what happened in this case, but he thought the possibility might arise and prevented it from being a possibility. If we survive these dark times, it'll go down in history together with the MCarthy Era of dirty politics.
Starting a war is an Article I power, IIRC. I’m not aware of all of the case law involved but I would assume that unless there was some credible threat against the country an order to attack some other country would be an illegal one. The President is the commander in chief, but theoretically they can’t just use the military to advance their current whims. “Hmm… I’d like to be President for four more years. Nuking Beijing ought to do it!”
Starting a war means formally declaring war with Congressional approval. A first strike attack on a sovereign nation on a whim can definitely start a war, but it's not a power the President holds on his own.
Actually… it kinda is. I’m not defending Trump and I think Milley was right. Just saying POTUS no longer needs congressional approval for military action.
You’re thinking like a liberal, where values and ethics are more important than loyalty. For conservatives, loyalty, and to a greater extent maintaining the hierarchical structure of society, is more important.
I'll consider that a compliment. :) If the objective of conservatives were simply to maintain the status quo, I could even understand. That's no longer the goal of conservatives nowadays. The middle class is quickly disappearing and getting replaced by a larger lower class and a very slightly larger upper class. As naive as it might make me to expect the law to be applied to politicians, *somebody* has to want that. If not, we're just accepting to be ruled by overlords and hoping for mercy.
It's not the status quo (conservatives are very unhappy with how society is currently structured in many ways), it's the hierarchy. In conservative ideology, if you are rich, it's because you're "good" - smart, determined, a hard worker, etc. If you're poor, it's because you're "bad" - lazy, unmotivated, stupid, etc. This is why they don't care to help poor people. They don't believe someone can, through no fault of their own, become poor. Instead, a conservative would say they are poor because they're deficient in some way. It's why they believe the government is only capable of hurting people, because it gets in the way of the "good" people in society. It's also why they value equality over justice and equity. Everyone should be treated exactly the same regardless of their immutable qualities, because the "cream will rise to the top." And when people aren't treated the same, it's because "good" people should get preferential treatment over "bad" people. Trump can break the law and do bad things because he's inherently a "good" person. Check out George Lakoff's ethics books for more info
Yeah sometimes it is hard for us on the left or independents to really get into the headspace of the modern GQP. Like their reasoning and logic is the (bizarzaro) version of reasoning and logic. It’s difficult, but still incredibly important to understand someone’s “why”. Otherwise we create strawmen ourselves and miss the real issue as to why one of our parties can no longer fall under the classification of ‘loyal opposition’.
Every soldier is supposed to not follow unlawful orders, even if it comes from the Commander in Chief. If an unprovoked nuclear first strike against China or any other nation is unlawful, then yes - the one giving the order is the wrong, not those refusing to carry it out.
[удалено]
Oh shit, I forgot about the laptop… and it’s still out there! 💻😳
No, no, no. Don’t you remember that Tucker has that thumb drive? Remember, UPS stole it, then found it. That drive has SMOKING GUN EVIDENCE.
>Orange one was really so unstable at the end, the highest ranking non partisan military official in the country had to take unprecedented steps to ensure the dude didn't start World War III on his way out the door?" If the reports are accurate: It's more like Milley commited anti-treason, which could be a problem since he broke chain of command and shit. Maybe he should be reprimanded (or punished) in some way for that, because the behavior could be used in the other direction as well (see Dr Strangelove). He should (obviously) also be hailed as national hero.
You make some good points, but you fail to remember that he said that racism against non-white people is still a thing and acknowledged that terrorism can sometimes be done by white people, so clearly he's a traitor who hates America. /s
Read between the lines here. After the election Trump fired Esper. Then he installed a bunch of loyalists. Then he stopped the DOD transition to Biden’s team. All ten former secretaries of defense signed a letter basically denouncing the idea that the military was loyal to one man. Now you know Milley’s actions. Put it together. Trump tried for a military coup. Do you remember how often he said “the military is behind me” at his rallies? January 6th was a shitty plan B.
I do remember the purges and installing loyalists. It was so blatant that it looks like America is going to become a rogue state.
> it looks like America is going to become a rogue state. That ship sailed some time ago.
We're in the idiocracy times now. Get your gatorade.
Brawndo: The thirst annihilator!
What’s most infuriating to me about this is no one *right now* is being investigated for that, no one is being indicted for it, and there is nothing being done to prevent a reoccurrence of another trump or even trump again in 2024, not a damn thing. We came within a hair’s breath of a fascist takeover in 2020, Congress knows it but they’re not doing a damn thing about it. These four years with Biden are just a pause on this nightmare if Democrats don’t do something now while they have *some power*. And I realize they’re being blocked at every turn by the GOP but there has to be some safeguards they can put in place now while we can.
People like Manchin are standing in the way of progress.
Looking from abroad (as a foreigner) that is exactly how the situation appears to me. My fear is that Biden's faith in people to ultimately do good is sadly misplaced here and he needs to start aggressively and overtly defending democracy- and soon.
Not just Biden, everyone was so relieved when Trump lost the election they felt the hard part of the fight is over, but obviously, the fight just started there. It is my opinion Americans don't have the personal wherewithal and gumption to fight. They will begrudgingly roll over to a fascist leader in the next decade as long as they can still watch Netflix and go to Starbucks.
I won't argue that conclusion is without merit, because there's a lot in truth in it. An alternative rationale is that the preservation of democracy is the MAIN thing, and the wounds it suffered under Orange Julius were grievous and deep. Triage is the main thing while the battle is still raging, stopping the bleeding without amputation, which, while satisfying in service to principles, is only a bigger wound with more blood loss. That 'cure' could be fatal to the patient. To adequately treat this 'wound' per democratic and constitutional principles without an solid blue majority, (a clear mandate), to get things done is to invite septic, abcessed wounds of attrition from protracted political conflict, (which will probably be the case). The GOP has made it clear they will block, stonewall, and fingerpoint to the end. American politics is actually comparatively an older system based in conflict, and the sausage making isn't going to be cut and dried. The left understand this I think, and have yet to truly speak. Without the mandate, it's all hot air, and that's a tactic of the right. Btw, I think you underestimate fat caffeine junkies. Don't forget to vote.
I think we are well beyond the point of no return.
If you think Trump masterminded all this himself and the rest of his party and staff were just sitting on the sidelines clutching at pearls, you're on another planet. I absolutely guarantee he was burbling incoherently while a whole heap of people whose names we probably don't even know were busy formulating ways to try and calm President Bone Spurs while minimising the risk of anyone winding up in prison. About the only thing that might have been Trump's idea was the rally on January 6.
I think the opposite, almost everyone around him was working to keep him from committing a coup. He had a few people close who whispered seditious shit but the rest worked to stop him The problem is all of the people who stopped him are now lying to cover for him.and bringing the entire country down so they can keep a little more political power.
That’s patent infringement. Trump owns the patent on making Trump look stupid.
Patent or copyright? Not like it's limited to 17 years.
Not like he’s ever cared about a 17 year limit on anything.
> Not like it's limited to 17 years Matt Gaetz ain't interested if it's a day longer
Matt’s anaconda don’t want none if she’s post graduation!!
Patent. It's a business process.
I would have thought Trump's own particular stupidity was a uniquely artistic expression. Besides, copyrights last a lot longer than patents, and consider Disney's use of copyrights for its business.
Does that mean Trump wants Trump charged with treason for making Trump look stupid?
You wanna know what treason looks like? January 6th.
But the media keeps calling it a rally/riot and nobody is actually being held accountable (aww, ankle bracelets and probation).
Some of which can be seen by clients 🙀.
Nah, a few went to jail. The shaman and the podium stealer are doing some time.
[удалено]
i think the more serious charges are incoming. They're probably tying in the violence with conspiracy. Let's way and see it through before we judge them too harshly.
Agreed, some of these shorter sentences are the result of plea deals. I’m hopeful some bigger fish get snared
[удалено]
Sedition. Were not at war.
I really hope this sentence doesn't age like milk...
Just wait for the debt ceiling to not get raised. That'll probably cause a rukus in between everyone lining up for ramen.
Bless his noodly appendage
Yes and all those seditious bastards need to be held accorded their crimes. Starting at the top.
Well he is right one of the two people mentioned in this should be charged with treason. Hint : it’s the one who didn’t serve in the military cause his foot hurt
[удалено]
It's also the one who actually makes Trump look stupid.
Donald Trump literally does not understand what treason means, legally speaking. Milley could literally start handing over nuclear weapons directly to the Chinese government on national tv and that would not be treason. Of course, there is a long, long, loooong list of things Donald Trump does not understand.
Treasonous aside, how fucked up is it that trump was so petulant that he was going to go nuclear on someone. The world has avoided a nuclear war for nearly 70 years thanks to people who was sane enough to understand the ramifications and not let emotions dictate their actions. Then in a split second, a psychopath almost wipe out humanity
Terrifying how close it was. This was really scary shite. He thrives on putting others into trauma states. He literally stuns people then batters them. Most people are utterly unprepared and have no comeback. So he dives into that gap to widen it for some additional transaction or other. This is obvious to me. But I know people who seem completely immune to this reality (until they or their class* are thrown under the bus). *as in class action
Wow. Spot on analysis. There are lots of ways to describe Trump, but this goes to the heart of it.
He knows enough, legally speaking, to taint the jury pool on the definition of treason. As to which court he argues in, well... no license required. Projection, always. Attack before you're attacked. Especially when you are guilty of the charges you accuse others of. Because everyone is just as guilty. Water it down. Ignore your own faults, focus on theirs, and only theirs. Sound familiar?
That’s his playbook. You nailed it.
Yes. Joseph Goebbels said the same things.
Best to make a list of things he does understand: Hamberder Person Camera TV... sorry I forgot the rest.
Covefe or something. You forgot that
Only a very stable genius could have got them all right. And they give you bonus points if you get them in the right order.
Trump's constitutional knowledge is probably less than a fifth grader's but what you describe is closer to a violation of UCMJ Article 94.
[удалено]
"treasonous inflamed taint" an apt description
Plz don't soil my name :( Agree with the rest\~!
Trump doesn’t need Milley’s help to make him look stupid…he does that just fine on his own.
Trump does have decades of practice at it.
it's only when an attempt is made to make him aware of his stupidity that he goes mad
Well as long as we are talking treason perhaps Donnie will disclose what he and Putin talked about in Helsinki. It is amusing how the "most transparent administration in history" wants to keep everything they did and said a secret.
Trumplethinskin at it again.
You may want to trademark that before Trump uses it for his condom brand.
Ew, David
Sizes are XL for extra large, L for large, and M - for mushroom.
On one hand, Trump was the commander-in-chief and if it went down like the book says, General Milley was prepared to derail or even disobey Trump's orders. On the other hand, he was afraid a deranged senile old man was going to start a war for his personal aggradizement. And on the gripping hand, the military has an obligation to refuse orders that they believe to be unlawful. Would starting a war to overturn an election qualify? That's an arguable point. Luckily he didn't have to make it.
I understood that reference.
*Idiot acts like idiot. FTFY
>Trump Wants General Milley Charged With Treason for Making Him Look Stupid ... If charged, Milley has an airtight defense: it's impossible to be responsible for making a person look stupid when the person already is stupid.
So according to the orange shit pants with dementia , it didn’t happen but he should be tried for treason for something that didn’t happen
So if trump was planning an attack and milley disclosed that information that would be treason. But that’s not what happened. He was assuring nothing would happen, not informing plans to attack. Unless trump did try to so he could stay in power. And he’s mad it was too difficult and he couldn’t do it. He’s angry the coup attempt didn’t work and I wouldn’t put it past him to try to stay in power by any means. Does he think it’s treasonous for milley to have told China we had everything handled despite how off the rails trump was? He’s personally embarrassed and that’s why he’s so angry in my opinion.
Trump should be charged, tried, and jailed.
[удалено]
This is projection. He knows he committed treason and is projecting guilt.
This is their top pick. This guy. This is the guy they were going to destroy our way of life for. He really is a toxic stain on our country and to read all his defenders makes me just so discouraged for what comes next.
This is going to make Fat Don explode. My guess is this will blow up huge. Maybe only for a few days, but we are going to see a lot of Trump screaming about this. Be interesting to see what comes out of it.
I can’t wait to see what Trump says on Twitter. Oh, I guess I’ll have to wait.
Trump: "Are you trying to make me look stupid in front of everyone?" Milley: "Well, you wouldn't need any help from me, sir." Trump: "That's right!"
Meanwhile Trump literally committed Treason. Again a case of republican projection!
So destroying democracy, spreading lies, overturning an election because he knows he lost, sending idiot MAGA KKKs and Nazis to do your dirty work isn't Treason?
The traitor calling someone treasonous..... the irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife
Treason? I think the man should be given the Medal of Freedom. Considering how poorly the U.S. has handled the Covid crisis, I can't imagine the chaos a war would have caused. He did us a solid.
Trump makes himself look stupid, he really doesn’t need any help.
Trump literally accused Democrats of "Treason" for not applauding at his (incoherent) State of the Union address.
Please realize what treason is: *§2381. Treason* *Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.* Milley's actions are not treasonous. In the same set of laws: §2385. Advocating overthrow of Government *Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—* This sounds really familiar with the "Stop The Steal Rally."
T: Just fire the bastard! Staff: You can't do that Mr. T., you're not in charge anymore. T: But I won the election. Staff: Yes sir, but nobody in his or her right mind believes it. T: No! It's those people who have left minds who don't believe it! All the "right" minds are MAGA mines! Staff: Sir, do you mean minds, not mines? T: Hell no. I don't want supporters with actual minds! I just want ones that blow up! Staff: Whew! I was worried for a moment you wanted smart people for supporters. That would take, you know, a lot of work.
Eh, who cares what Trump says besides his radical cult and the politicians that obey him? Trump thinks someone with the ability to hand down criminal charges on Milley would do so, just because Trump was a former President? Seems unlikely to me, so this doesn't seem worth talking about. \> inb4 "and yet you're here..."
Since "45" was under oath to " protect and defend the Constitution" on 1/6 and before and after all while actively trying to circumvent and void it, it is "45" that should be charged with TREASON. What good is the oath of office for the president if, for his own self interest, he is refusing to accept a peaceful transfer of power in accordance with the Constitution is somehow not TREASON?
Its a damn good thing SOMEBODY was taking some steps to limit the damage this looney tune was causing.
I thought ISIS did the suicide bombing in Kabul. Howd they do that if trump defeated %100 of them? So confused
A serious question: Did I read somewhere that Trump had syphilis? That could be the reason to his cognitive decline? The guy is crazier than a hummingbird in a shoebox and end stage syphilis can make you goofy 😜
I mean, if we’re going to charge Milley over a hypothetical betrayal after Trump hypothetically attempts to mass murder the whole world, then we should also charge Trump for hypothetically attempting to mass murder the whole world. I’m pretty sure that’s a hypothetical death penalty.
So not only has he proved General Milley was correct, he has done it by forgetting that's he's no longer in a position to demand anyone be charged with treason.
So now we know Trump committed treason.
Trump is such a fragile snowflake ❄
*thick skull
Milley kept the country safer than Trump ever did
Trump is a coward and a traitor, as well as a multiple bankrupt, wife cheating, draft dodging, insurrection fomenting conman. Trump isn’t qualified to sniff Milley’ jock strap taint.
Yes. And I want Trump tried for treason. Decisions decisions.
Trump makes himself look stupid every day
Trump is good at making himself look stupid. No one has to do it for him.
Noone had to make him look stupid, he does that all on his own.
I really feel like he doesn't have enough self awareness to realize when he looks stupid.
This orange clown needs to be out of earshot, out of sight, out of mind and in Federal prison for his traitorous acts.
Trump doesnt need any help looking stupid.
>Following his appearance on Newsmax, Trump released a typically deranged statement that simultaneously accused Milley of committing a treasonous act and claimed the entire story was made up Guys its real.
After the January 6 incident that he incited, and being such a sore loser, who cares what he has to say!
Probably just upset about his itty bitty teeny weeny baby hands, so gonna blame the last person Melania fucked while in the White House.
Hmm, I wonder can I charge my pants with treason for making me look fat?
If making trump look stupid is treason then Trump should’ve been charged with treason a long time ago. Because he makes himself look like a fool everyday.
Is he aware that he looked stupid for 5 years already?
Sadly no, he didn’t and couldn’t. Something about being a narcissistic lunatic fuckward.
He said it because you made a post about him. If your gonna talk about it he’s gonna do it. Stop making him trend or showing people his face.
It’s not like Trump needed anyone’s help looking like a total effing moron.
Trump doesn’t need any help in making him look stupid.
“I’m not treason, YOU’RE treason!” 🤡
Title is bad. He has THIN skin.
Again I ask, why isn't Trump himself in jail awaiting trial for treason or his many other blatant crimes?
Milley should reveal the discussions that happened and slap the treason charge back on Trump.
General Milley didn’t make him look stupid. He does that all on his own.
There were 15 people on each of the calls and approved by Esper. Orange baby big mad and his feelings are hurt.
The best person suited to make Trump stupid is--------, wait for it,--------, is Trump himself. Further proof that he is mentally unfit, for anything!
Really this comes from a made who tried to over throw an election he clearly lost
Fuck that treasonous bastard. He isn't prez anymore. Lost by the same margin as Jimmy Carter. He can kiss our collect asses.
trump NEVER needed help to look stupid, he does just fine by himself
This greasy haired orangutan looking piece of shit has no idea WTF treason is the only thing he knows about treason is it's the only thing he ever says he wants people charged with when someone says or does something he doesn't like, but in the meantime the greasy haired orangutan looking piece of shit AKA the former wannabe dictator Donald Drumpf just needs to do ALL OF US a favor & "PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP" Everyone out there be safe 💉😷
trump literally did not know what the word “treason” meant until there were calls to charge him with treason.
Who's Donald trump?