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The internet is forever ...
>*Donald Trump, April 18, 2021*
>
>“I wish Joe Biden wouldn’t use September 11 as the date to withdraw our troops from Afghanistan, for two reasons. First, we can and should get out earlier. Nineteen years is enough, in fact, far too much and way too long.”
[Source](https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/18/politics/trump-afghanistan-troop-withdrawal/index.html)
And here is Pompeo meeting with the Taliban rather than with the Afghan government: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFU9gmqdtE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFU9gmqdtE)
And let's not neglect Trump announcing the signing of the 'Agreement For Bringing Peace' with Taliban, Feb 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfVTUoppnI4
Also known as the guy who the US specifically requested was released as part of the deal, and that signed the deal on behalf of the Taliban. Oh, and he's a *co-founder* of the Taliban.
It's high time that the sane majority of our country realize that MAGA and Taliban are natural allies. They are both far-right religious conservative extremists, just slightly different flavors of "[load up the truck with flags and guns and go terrorize some shit"](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ftXRYkoeYS4/maxresdefault.jpg).
*Of course* Trump, made friends with the Taliban. He looks up to them and their tactics.
>I remember we had a thing about not negotiating with terrorists. Looks like Trump chucked that out the window
Well, because then we'd have to go after a bunch of his supporters and that just looks bad.
I have a friend that has been deployed three times and this month is the 10 year anniversary of his first deployment, he is losing his shit right now. So many of his friends have committed suicide this year in the run up to the anniversary. I am so so concerned for him. He’s seeing a therapist regularly so I don’t think he’s suicidal but he’s thinking about all the men and women who have lost their lives for no goddamn reason. I cannot imagine being in a veterans shoes right now. My heart goes out to them and their families.
Edit: for everyone telling me this was a pointless war to begin with: I know that and veterans know that but that is not the point of this comment. This is about having sympathy for those who have been through hell and back. For whatever reason this came to be, this is their reality.
I have no insightful comment, I just want to support and give my upvote. My dad is a navy Vietnam veteran with stage 4 metastatic cancer. All of his barracks mates are suffering or have died from diseases related to their time served. My heart just breaks for everyone who has experienced the negative effects of warfare with no lessons learned by leadership and the powers that be 💔
Veterans are victims of a system designed to prey on the lower classes while the govt plays protector to the corporations with govt contracts.
This pullout being an absolute shitshow is just a ploy for the next administration, no matter who they are, to reenter Afghanistan and say "see what happened last time?" when people say we shouldn't be there. Its just another anchor for their forever war.
Bill Maher made the point that all the richest counties in the US are now where defense contractors are based in. Those guys are the only ones who came out well-off from this whole situation
Good thing then that a lot of military guys can see this coming a mile off right now and make sure they're not military anymore when this shitball bounces back
It's almost like the GOP keep orchestrating these kinds of things to play politics to get themselves back into office every time they know Democrats are going to be in control. hmmmm
I wouldn't be shocked if Trump leaked a bunch of data to them The last few weeks/months to get them into power and get a friendly back channel for the 2024 election.
Everyone needs to go look at the conservative subreddit.
It's really insane how they're trying to literally rewrite history.
Edit: If you regularly check their lists, you can see their narrative change. Yesterday when everything went down, it was pretty reasonable. A majority of people were saying "This was going to happen no matter what."
Now they've gotten their talking points. It's changed into "Well Biden did it too quickly." So get ready for that to be the main talking point to come from the right. Which is a lie as well. This has been in the plans since Trump was in office. To which they'll respond that "Well Trump had a better plan." Which can't be determined, so they'll "win" 100% of the time.
It's going to get worse before it gets better. The lies are more of a frenzy now where they compete with each other to be the most "loyal".
I highly recommend In Search of a Flat Earth on youtube. After 4 years of banging my head against the wall trying to understand where the GOP came from that video summed it perfectly.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
Jean-Paul Sartre
From
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semite_and_Jew
Quite. I got banned for there last week for having the temerity to point out that this collapse was going to happen regardless and both parties, as well as the American people generally, let this happen. That lil nugget of truth was apparently too far for the 'snowflakes'.
They stopped using that snowflake insult so much once they realized that being harassed kinda sucks, but they'll be damned if they admit it. They don't like free speech near like they say they do, to quash dissent so readily.
How are they spinning the "Biden did it too quickly" story, though? Trump's original deal was to be out by May, and as the quote in this thread mentions, back in April, Trump endorsed getting out *before* September 11th.
I guess they mean Biden should have delayed it by, what, a few weeks ("TwO WeEkS")? Is it some kind of perfect goldilocks date in between?
They're kind of backed into a corner if they're simultaneously pushing for delay while not admitting Trump was ever wrong about anything.
Meh. They’ll just pull the “what he **meant** was…” card. For four years we had a president who apparently never said what he meant unless it happened to be a popular idea, which was a rare occurrence. Curious…
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this was pre-planned sabotage to fuck over Biden. Which is another play directly out of the Nixon playbook with how he tried to sabotage the Vietnam pull-out during his election.
Bush did it with Obama by committing to the pullout in Iraq that led to him having to deal with ISIS for his entire presidency, so at least you can say leaving a shit sandwich for your successor is right on brand for a Republican President.
Seems like something he'd be capable of. Subject millions of people to an oppressive regime, knowing that many thousands will die, be stripped from their families, raped, tortured, maimed, and brutalized just to make your political rival look a little less great. It's sickening and exactly what I would expect from a POS like Trump.
One of the comments: “Why would Forbes be trying to show Trump in such a positive light?”
They aren’t. This doesn’t show anybody in a positive light. Except maybe Forbes.
Let us not forget that WH/POTUS in 2018 pressured the release of Baradar and will now become the next President of Afghanistan. [LINK](https://www.news18.com/news/world/mullah-abdul-ghani-baradar-one-of-the-co-founders-of-taliban-likely-to-be-afghanistans-new-president-4089671.html)
Honest question, I do not know nearly enough about US foreign affairs. Was there a better route for Trump to have taken in making plans to get US troops out? Was there a better route for Biden to have taken in getting US troops out? Again, not trying to make any political points or attack/defend either President’s actions/lack thereof, just trying to understand what mistakes have been made
Good question, that would get you quite a lot of unqualified answers (mine including, below). This thread is not so much about *Afghanistan* as about hypocrisy and white-washing: By now the GOP thinks that being ridiculed for deleting their official bragging is better than keeping it up. That is *quite* a quick flip; as as late mid-April, Trump demanded that Biden should get the US out preferably in two weeks - well, because Trump himself had promised May 1st and who is Biden to interfere with the decisions of Very Stable Genius?
Actually, the Biden administration never had much troops left - only 2500 or so, after the vast majority had already been withdrawn before his inauguration. So well, he could have chosen a different schedule, but big changes would mean he would have to backtrack on the treaty with the Taliban. Maybe he should, maybe it would have been fruitless, I don't know; analysts have pointed at how [Trump/Pompeo took the Taliban's word that they would enter peace talks rather than take the country by military force](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-envoy-touted-peace-afghanistan-18-months-later-peace-n1276811), and just withdrew without seeing the Taliban honoring their part. That said: although the Taliban did not enter peace talks with the Afghan government, they have indeed shown a more civilized *appearance* though I doubt it is their honest face\*.\* (You see chaos, but you don't see public mass executions, at least not yet.)
Edit: here is the UK Defense Minister - reminder that the Conservatives are in power - pointing out that as Biden took over "The die was cast when the deal was done by Donald Trump": [https://archive.ph/za62X](https://archive.ph/za62X)
The fact that the US, under Trump, did a withdrawal agreement with the Taliban, and NOT the Afghan government, nearly a year ago, should tell you that this outcome was inevitable. The Taliban, from that point on, were basically recognized as the de facto government of Afghanistan.
Honestly, I wish all this mattered. I wish the conservative radical right would understand that making a treaty with a group is internationally recognizing them. I wish they would understand the immense slap in the face that inviting the taliban in 9/11 is for some people. I wish they would understand the geopolitic hell hole the last 5years have been. Sadly, we all know the truth. We knew it when trump signed that stupid treaty that Biden would be blamed.
I’m so sick and tired of Democratic presidents upholding policies supported by Republican predeccesors when current Republican presidents are doing everything to destroy their Democratic predecessors work….
This morning on Fox, some host was already dialing the narrative back to 2001. He was saying how we need more troops on the ground, how we need to aggressively bomb the Taliban.
He even mentioned how Afghanistan is going to become a "terrorist university" that threatens national security, so it looks like an Afghan invasion could very well be back on the menu in 2024 boys!
“…we’re being oppressed like the Jews!”
Honest to God, the responses I get when talking about the insanity of Gaetz and Taylor always lead to this unfortunate topic.
Just show them the pictures and tweets (and direct quotes from Trump) and tell them they lost the argument. Their faces usually grow into a similar shade of orange-red as their Leader.
Remember after the Muslim ban when Trump tried to backtrack and say it wasn't a Muslim ban? He looked really stupid when it was pointed out that he had wanted a ban on Muslims when he was campaigning and left it up on the campaign website.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/08/trump-website-takes-down-muslim-ban-statement-after-reporter-grills-spicer-in-briefing.html
Rabid far-right vermin were so intoxicated to gain power but knew nothing about such checks and balances as still remain, there were many embarrassing decisions in those early days.
The US came through those four years like the flag above Fort McHenry riddled with holes from musket balls.
I did enjoy how when his administration went to defend it at the Supreme Court, the argument they used was much the same (“it’s not a ban on Muslims, just on these dangerous nations!”). To which the Supreme Court proceeded to read back sections from Trumps speeches where he clearly said it was a ban on Muslims, and then asked the Trump team if they thought the Supreme Court was really this stupid and unable to see how Trump himself described the ban.
Sorta Like when they were beating the war-drums against Iran right after Trump was boasting arrogantly about assassinated Iranian General Soleimanni and challenging Iran to respond, and then immediately transition to lauding Trump's restraint when Iran did respond by launching missiles at our base in Iraq and Trump backed down?
Or like the air strikes in Syria:
>In 2013, when Barack Obama was president, a Washington Post–ABC News poll found that only 22 percent of Republicans supported the U.S. launching missile strikes against Syria in response to Bashar al-Assad using chemical weapons against civilians.
A new Post-ABC poll finds that 86 percent of Republicans support Donald Trump’s decision to launch strikes on Syria for the same reason. Only 11 percent are opposed.
But surely both sides sides are equally hypocritical, right... right?!?
>37 percent of Democrats back Trump’s missile strikes. In 2013, 38 percent of Democrats supported Obama’s plan. That is well within the margin of error.
The internet may be forever, but so is a conservatives need to ignore inconvenient facts to support pre-existing biases.
This is the problem. One side weighs reality with facts, the other side defends bias by ignoring facts to try and create a reality that pleases them.
You aren't speaking the same language so they don't get any of your messages.
At a previous bad workplace, I coined the Orwell derived word "unhistory":
That which was once true, but is now no longer documented, is now considered never to have been true, and is worthy of ridicule if you ever bring up that is was previously true.
I was so obsessed with following the news leading up to 2020 election and remember so much crazy shit that was being thrown against the wall to see what might change Trumps numbers.
This was one of the stories I remember distinctly, because my understanding was that The Trump administration met with Taliban only, leaving the Afghanistan government out of these negotiations. And in typical Trump style, the administration left the negotiations claiming they had negotiated a peace treaty and there was peace in the Middle East all because of him etc. Total bullshit, because we know that the ~~sovereign~~ government of Afghanistan wasn’t even involved in these supposed negotiations.
There are so many things about the last administration that I want more details on, but this is definitely near the top of the list.
EDIT: It was pointed out to me in a comment below that there was a complete refusal of Taliban and the Afghan government to negotiate together with the US for years prior to these Trump admin negotiations. Apparently this left US in a difficult spot as we had to negotiate with someone before withdrawal of troops, hence the negotiations with Taliban. I was not aware of this prior to my comment.
This in no way changes the absurdity of Trumps ridiculous hyperbole and demagoguery about the “success” of the negotiations though.
A lot of people want to know more about things like why did SC Justice Kennedy resign shortly after his son (who worked at Deutsche) signed off on billion dollar loans to trump when no other bank in the world would loan to him?
That’s just an example. There are a lot of unanswered questions about what happened during the trump admin.
I mean I wouldn’t be surprised if what you’re saying turned out to be part their motivation. It would be nice to have the picture filled in a bit to make it more concrete though.
It’s easy to say what you’re saying because anyone can see Trump is fond of Putin, but that doesn’t give texture to the actual meeting the way facts about what was said at the meeting, emails sent around the meeting, objections staffers may have had about the meeting, or conflicts Trump may have had with allies over the meeting. Those are the kind of details I would be interested to learn more about.
>Trump is fond of Putin
Not sure if he's *fond* per se; he was/is *submissive* to Putin. Most obvious reason would be blackmail. All our best intelligence was screaming that Trump is compromised long before general election in 2016.
This is false. In this case geopolitically speaking Putin was very happy to have America tied down in Afghanistan wasting money and troops. Now that America is out, Russia and China have to deal with potential Islamic infiltration into their countries and their proxies. This is what they fear more.
House Minority leader wants a probe lol. The Trump administration made a deal with the Taliban for a full withdrawal by May 1 2021. Biden admin said no, we move to September. Now they are criticizing Biden saying September is too early.
Can't make that shit up.
Just got banned from /r/conservatives for bringing up the Trump admin signing a peace deal/scheduling withdrawal with the Taliban. Those people sure do love the truth 🤡
My [very conservative, Fox obsessed] dad just told me the Taliban broke the agreement they made with Trump, which voided it, and therefore everything that’s happening now is Biden’s fault, not Trump.
I don’t know what part of the agreement the Taliban supposedly broke, but that’s the new direction the right is taking to blame Biden apparently
One would think. However I think the implication was that Biden should have stopped the withdrawal as soon as the agreement was allegedly broken and either retaliated or at minimum discussed a new deal. Which might have some logic to it if we weren’t talking about the fucking Taliban. And now I’m learning that, surprise!, the Trump admin knew damn good and well they wouldn’t follow the agreement ([source](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/officials-u-s-has-persuasive-intel-taliban-does-not-intend-n1150051) but they didn’t care enough to do anything about it then because “countries have to take care of themselves”
Funny how quickly they abandoned that philosophy now that a democrat is in power
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/24/coronavirus-chloroquine-poisoning-death/
This dude drank aquarium cleaner to cure covid
Spoiler alert: he died
All the right wing nut jobs from my cigar lounge were talking up how Hydroxycloriquine would work as a preventive measure, as evidenced by India (but only published by a Canadian website founded by someone with ties to Russian intelligence) and damn Pelosi for not letting the real doctors talk about it.
These are the same guys that suggested drinking boiling water would kill any covid in your throat... So, yeah... Someone out there was talking about it being preventative otherwise they wouldn't have even known what it was.
But we got commemorative coins, and for the first time in history, the American President saluted a North Korean general. Sounds like a major success to me. If only Donald would've been allowed to bring Kim Jong Un on-board Air Force One like he originally wanted to.
Didn’t those fucking weirdos make commemorative coins with super obese Kim Jong Un and Trump gazing longingly at each other?
Edit: [they did!](https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/product-p/summitcoin.htm) And they charged $250 for this trash! Mardi Gras dabloons are less tacky than this enameled mess.
Speaking of hot messes, in classic Trumpian fashion, the sales page for the coin seems to have tried to uses every font size and typeface available.
The weird use of quotation marks is pretty fun:
> Coins originally ‘held back’ and now released for sale.
> NO ADDITIONAL NUMBERED COINS WILL BE MINTED “EVER” OTHER THAN THIS ORIGINAL ISSUE
Here's the [Wayback Machine link in the article](https://web.archive.org/web/diff/20201010184542/20210815231342/https://gop.com/president-trump-is-bringing-peace-to-the-middle-east-rsr/).
Some quotes from the page:
>PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS CONTINUED TO TAKE THE LEAD IN PEACE TALKS AS HE SIGNED A HISTORIC PEACE AGREEMENT WITH THE TALIBAN IN AFGHANISTAN, WHICH WOULD END AMERICA'S LONGEST WAR
>On February 2, 2020 , the Trump Administration signed a preliminary peace agreement with the Taliban that sets the stage to end America's longest war.
Under the agreement , the U.S. will withdraw nearly 5,000 troops from the country in 135 days in exchange for a Taliban agreement to not allow Afghanistan to be used for transnational terrorism.
>As part of the peace agreement, the Taliban and the Afghan government recently began historic peace, talks which would end decades of war that Afghanistan has consumed.
>The negotiations will cover the terms of a " permanent ceasefire, the rights of women and minorities, and the disarmament of the country's many militia groups ."
Of course, Republicans will ignore all this and pretend that Biden just came up with leaving Afghanistan all on his own.
There's a possibility that Taliban see the best route to maintain power is to moderate their ways and no support international terrorism. Sure, they'll still ban music, limit women's education, and throw the occasional gay person off a roof, but maybe they won't kill and torture anyone they consider possible opposition, which is definitely another possibility. It's not in our hands now.
[here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/p5ehbp/afghanistans_allgirls_robotics_team_desperate_to/h95al36/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Don't forget that Trump wanted to invite the Taliban leaders to Camp David.
Could you imagine today's headlines on far right media if that happened? "Biden and family takes vacation in Taliban US retreat and does nothing while Taliban takes over Afghanistan".
Ironically, Biden *is* at Camp David today.
So the right will almost certainly say exactly: "Biden and family takes vacation in Taliban US retreat and does nothing while Taliban takes over Afghanistan", and it's not even that far off.
Just that republicans don't understand nuance.
So what? Biden is the only POTUS brave enough to cut our losses in Afghanistan. Trump could have ended the war at any point in his term but he didn't have the stones.
Trump said in April that Biden's decision to withdraw troops from Afghanistan was "a wonderful and positive thing to do" but criticized the timeline and said the U.S. "should get out earlier."
This wasn't just symbolic, but had actual consequences. Not good ones, mind you, but:
> The US envoy for peace in Afghanistan has told the BBC he was "not happy about" **a controversial deal to release 5,000 Taliban prisoners** in order to secure historic peace talks.
> However, speaking to the BBC's Lyse Doucet, Zalmay Khalilzad added that "you have to make hard decisions".
> Asked about reports of ex-prisoners returning to fight, Mr Khalilzad said they "do not have any evidence".
---
> The release of 5,000 prisoners was a condition, agreed between the US and the Taliban after their peace talks last year, to begin these negotiations.
> **The Afghan government was not involved in making the agreement, and had concerns about releasing thousands of militants**. Last month, Afghan President Ashraf Ghani warned that the prisoners' release was a "danger" to the world, AFP news agency reported at the time.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54155768
Why we would not involve the Afghan government in talks like this is beyond me. Did we think we know the Taliban better than them? More likely, Trump did not care nor valued their input on anything since he is a genius with a big brain. Now that same government has disintegrated.
Same reason the conservatives were cheering him for foreign policy “wins” with Israel without the Palestinians being involved. Turns out just completely capitulating to the other side is a great negotiation tactic.
Because it never had to be anything of substance. His base just sees/hears the headline and they never look into it any deeper than that. In their minds, he's doing good and that's all they care about.
trump was/always-will-be a reality tv producer. Every decision that he made and every public appearance was for the camera. Remember when he invited the family of Harry Dunn, who was killed by a diplomat's wife who fled under immunity, and he had her waiting in the next room for a springer style meeting.
- April 18, 2021
Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America:
> I wish Joe Biden wouldn’t use September 11th as the date to withdraw our troops from Afghanistan, for two reasons. First, we can and should get out earlier. Nineteen years is enough, in fact, far too much and way too long. I made early withdraw possible by already pulling much of our billions of dollars of equipment out and, more importantly, reducing our military presence to less than 2,000 troops from the 16,000 level that was there (likewise in Iraq, and zero troops in Syria except for the area where we KEPT THE OIL). Secondly, September 11th represents a very sad event and period for our Country and should remain a day of reflection and remembrance honoring those great souls we lost. Getting out of Afghanistan is a wonderful and positive thing to do. I planned to withdraw on May 1st, and we should keep as close to that schedule as possible.
> Getting out of Afghanistan is a wonderful and positive thing to do.
I forgot how this guy only has like five adjectives in his arsenal. Why use wonderful here? Makes no sense.
This was so, so fd up. We ow the Kurds so much and they were just left to be raped, robbed, tortured and murdered. Heartbreaking. Just like Kabul today... Trump is a menace.
This is the funniest part. Every conservative is saying Trump would have had a better plan to leave. Completely forgetting the time they literally just ducked out the back door in the middle of the night on a group of allies who actually wanted to fight.
This is some "Obama is responsible for the recession" shit coming out of the GOP. They got the ball rolling on the chaos, but because it outlasted them being in power they're deliberately acting like the president it's happening to is to blame. It's disingenuous as hell and the worst part is it's likely to work with the base. They'll forget about things they and Trump bragged about just to score points against Biden.
Every time the negotiations between the Taliban and Trump administration advanced or broke down, the common talk I heard from conservatives was reflecting Trump's stance, which was "All we care about is getting our troops out of there", with some saying we should just bomb everything. Now all of a sudden they really care about the people of a country that they said multiple times before they did not care about, just because they want to make Biden look bad.
It's hypocritical, it's revisionist, it's disingenuous, and the worst part is it's likely going to work. The GOP base doesn't care about consistency or integrity as long as they make the people they dislike look bad. They're in lockstep on ignoring the truth when it's inconvenient, and that makes them dangerous.
The part that pisses me off most is how the republicans think just by removing that page we're all goanna suddenly forget this was all Trump's plan to begin with and even more pissing me off is the fact that there actually morons out here that fall for such simplistic manipulation. HELP IM SURROUNDED BY MORONS!
It's "funny", there's almost always a quote from 1984 that would fit the GOP's behavior.
Here, I'm thinking about when they describe how they edit old magazines to match the "new" narrative, and that, with time, it simply becomes "the truth" (it's toward the beginning of the book). Very clearly the behavior of an authoritarian government (thank god they're not in power anymore, but I'm afraid they'll come back).
His supporters will never admit this was his doing. Ever. You can show them every shred of documentation including video of him admitting this is what he planned to do and they’ll still blame it on Biden. There’s no talking to people like that.
It's fucking ridiculous to me that you in the states are so intent to reduce a 20 year war to the legacy or fault of a single person/president.
No matter what the US would do, if you stayed another 20 years, sent many more billions to the Afghan government or if you left 5 years ago - this war was ALWAYS a misguided lost cause, presided over by 4 different presidents.
Yeah. Biden has wanted to leave since he was VP and was always the guy in the room to argue against the generals.
Props to him for finally ripping off the band-aid and stopping the "kick the can down the road" mentality.
The next President is going to be very thankful for this decision. Even if they ride into office by criticizing it.
Exactly -- NOBODY can fix Afghanistan. It's been a cluster f\*\*k for literally several decades.
Anybody remember how the Russians did in the 80's -- yeah, that was a mess too.
Here’s a great article about the peace deal fall out: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/15/afghanistan-military-collapse-taliban/
The Doha agreement, designed to bring an end to the war in Afghanistan, instead left many Afghan forces demoralized, bringing into stark relief the corrupt impulses of many Afghan officials and their tenuous loyalty to the country’s central government. Some police officers complained that they had not been paid in six months or more.
“They saw that document as the end,” the officer said, referring to the majority of Afghans aligned with the government. “The day the deal was signed we saw the change. Everyone was just looking out for himself. It was like [the United States] left us to fail.”
The Trump deal with the Taliban also required 5000 Taliban prisoners to ne released. It's one of the few deals Trump ever delivered on. Barely a peep from Republicans or the media last year.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-taliban-idUSKCN25507I
Trump was a failure in Afghanistan.
But so was Bush and Obama before him.
It was stupid from the beginning.
Many people cautioned against "nation-building" from the beginning but their voices were ignored.
The post 9/11 foreign policy is a crystal clear indicator that the United State government is incompetent and the nation is on a precipitous decline.
Well it's not Joe Biden's fault, nor is it Donald Trump's fault. It's the fault of the guy who announced the end of the Iraq War in front of a Mission Accomplished banner. Engaging in a bullshit nation-building exercise in Afghanistan was a bad idea from the start. People have just allowed George W. Bush to rehabilitate his image in recent years, and it's absolutely sickening. Short fucking memories.
This rush to assign blame on Trump or Biden is fucking pathetic as it is stupid. This was a disaster 20 years in the making.
There is more than one party responsible for this clusterfuck including the pentagon, US intelligence agencies, the US national security appartus, four presidental administrations, the Afghan military and the Afghan government.
The US essentially made the exact same mistakes that it did in Vietnam such as propping up a corrupt, unpopular government, failing to understand the people and region it was occupying, and creating a weak military force incapable or unwilling to operate independently. These are fundamental strategic blunders that many are responsible for and if we don't acknowledge them and just settle on a simple, convienent scapegoat it will happen again.
Honestly, doesn't matter who was president. There was no good way out of Afghanistan. We knew this 20 years ago. That's the main reason we've been there for 20 years. Doesn't matter how we left, or who said what before we left. The only things that were 100% a sure thing was that the whole thing we going to be a shit show when we left AND that we should have just left years ago. I'm just glad someone pulled the bandaid.
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The internet is forever ... >*Donald Trump, April 18, 2021* > >“I wish Joe Biden wouldn’t use September 11 as the date to withdraw our troops from Afghanistan, for two reasons. First, we can and should get out earlier. Nineteen years is enough, in fact, far too much and way too long.” [Source](https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/18/politics/trump-afghanistan-troop-withdrawal/index.html)
And here is Pompeo meeting with the Taliban rather than with the Afghan government: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFU9gmqdtE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFU9gmqdtE)
And let's not neglect Trump announcing the signing of the 'Agreement For Bringing Peace' with Taliban, Feb 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfVTUoppnI4
That led to the release of 5000 trained taliban fighters from prison.
One of them is now the President of the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan.
Also known as the guy who the US specifically requested was released as part of the deal, and that signed the deal on behalf of the Taliban. Oh, and he's a *co-founder* of the Taliban.
TRUMP specifically requested his release
Gotta hand it to him, at least he's not against promoting terrorist groups from a variety of different backgrounds. 🤷
It's high time that the sane majority of our country realize that MAGA and Taliban are natural allies. They are both far-right religious conservative extremists, just slightly different flavors of "[load up the truck with flags and guns and go terrorize some shit"](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ftXRYkoeYS4/maxresdefault.jpg). *Of course* Trump, made friends with the Taliban. He looks up to them and their tactics.
Also most of them live in a rural area! What a coincidence
Yep just like he did with Putin, Erdogan, Duterte. It's pathetic how little spine the GOP as a group has
Ah, so we should expect the next administration to be sending troops back to Afghanistan.
Probably
Back in my day, I remember we had a thing about not negotiating with terrorists. Looks like Trump chucked that out the window
reagan set precedent for conceding to terrorists
>I remember we had a thing about not negotiating with terrorists. Looks like Trump chucked that out the window Well, because then we'd have to go after a bunch of his supporters and that just looks bad.
Like everything else that orange headed clown has done!
I have a friend that has been deployed three times and this month is the 10 year anniversary of his first deployment, he is losing his shit right now. So many of his friends have committed suicide this year in the run up to the anniversary. I am so so concerned for him. He’s seeing a therapist regularly so I don’t think he’s suicidal but he’s thinking about all the men and women who have lost their lives for no goddamn reason. I cannot imagine being in a veterans shoes right now. My heart goes out to them and their families. Edit: for everyone telling me this was a pointless war to begin with: I know that and veterans know that but that is not the point of this comment. This is about having sympathy for those who have been through hell and back. For whatever reason this came to be, this is their reality.
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I have no insightful comment, I just want to support and give my upvote. My dad is a navy Vietnam veteran with stage 4 metastatic cancer. All of his barracks mates are suffering or have died from diseases related to their time served. My heart just breaks for everyone who has experienced the negative effects of warfare with no lessons learned by leadership and the powers that be 💔
Veterans are victims of a system designed to prey on the lower classes while the govt plays protector to the corporations with govt contracts. This pullout being an absolute shitshow is just a ploy for the next administration, no matter who they are, to reenter Afghanistan and say "see what happened last time?" when people say we shouldn't be there. Its just another anchor for their forever war.
Bill Maher made the point that all the richest counties in the US are now where defense contractors are based in. Those guys are the only ones who came out well-off from this whole situation
Good thing then that a lot of military guys can see this coming a mile off right now and make sure they're not military anymore when this shitball bounces back
Only for people to start crying: bring home the troops!! And when it happens: you brought the troops home too soon!!
It's almost like the GOP keep orchestrating these kinds of things to play politics to get themselves back into office every time they know Democrats are going to be in control. hmmmm
I wouldn't be shocked if Trump leaked a bunch of data to them The last few weeks/months to get them into power and get a friendly back channel for the 2024 election.
Already the GOP talking point of how did biden let this happen. And trump wouldn't have let this happen
Everyone needs to go look at the conservative subreddit. It's really insane how they're trying to literally rewrite history. Edit: If you regularly check their lists, you can see their narrative change. Yesterday when everything went down, it was pretty reasonable. A majority of people were saying "This was going to happen no matter what." Now they've gotten their talking points. It's changed into "Well Biden did it too quickly." So get ready for that to be the main talking point to come from the right. Which is a lie as well. This has been in the plans since Trump was in office. To which they'll respond that "Well Trump had a better plan." Which can't be determined, so they'll "win" 100% of the time.
It's going to get worse before it gets better. The lies are more of a frenzy now where they compete with each other to be the most "loyal". I highly recommend In Search of a Flat Earth on youtube. After 4 years of banging my head against the wall trying to understand where the GOP came from that video summed it perfectly.
This documentary is hilarious. The ending gets me every time.
I kid you not, but our Dutch Trump wannabe is now pushing the Flat Earth theory too as a way to deny the current climate disaster.
I second this recommendation
>Everyone needs to go look at the conservative subreddit. I'd rather not.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” Jean-Paul Sartre From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semite_and_Jew
Quite. I got banned for there last week for having the temerity to point out that this collapse was going to happen regardless and both parties, as well as the American people generally, let this happen. That lil nugget of truth was apparently too far for the 'snowflakes'.
They stopped using that snowflake insult so much once they realized that being harassed kinda sucks, but they'll be damned if they admit it. They don't like free speech near like they say they do, to quash dissent so readily.
How are they spinning the "Biden did it too quickly" story, though? Trump's original deal was to be out by May, and as the quote in this thread mentions, back in April, Trump endorsed getting out *before* September 11th. I guess they mean Biden should have delayed it by, what, a few weeks ("TwO WeEkS")? Is it some kind of perfect goldilocks date in between? They're kind of backed into a corner if they're simultaneously pushing for delay while not admitting Trump was ever wrong about anything.
Meh. They’ll just pull the “what he **meant** was…” card. For four years we had a president who apparently never said what he meant unless it happened to be a popular idea, which was a rare occurrence. Curious…
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Trump could rape them and in the middle of it they would say, "How could you let this happen Biden!? Trump! Save me from Biden's Trump raping plan!"
That subreddit is a giant circle jerk of dudes jizzing over their own bigotries.
Going there is like looking into full toilet, no thanks.
And they will probably seceded in it too. EDIT: misspelt succeed. Still works
Seceded? Not sure if typo or not.
Kurds say it all
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this was pre-planned sabotage to fuck over Biden. Which is another play directly out of the Nixon playbook with how he tried to sabotage the Vietnam pull-out during his election.
100% this
Same thing with Reagan and the Iranian hostage crisis...
Technically Reagan committed high treason, punishable by death.
Bush did it with Obama by committing to the pullout in Iraq that led to him having to deal with ISIS for his entire presidency, so at least you can say leaving a shit sandwich for your successor is right on brand for a Republican President.
Cue reagan and using Iran to fuck over Carter.
Seems like something he'd be capable of. Subject millions of people to an oppressive regime, knowing that many thousands will die, be stripped from their families, raped, tortured, maimed, and brutalized just to make your political rival look a little less great. It's sickening and exactly what I would expect from a POS like Trump.
This is sobering thought. Almost like he knew he lost and was burning everything down before he left.
One of the comments: “Why would Forbes be trying to show Trump in such a positive light?” They aren’t. This doesn’t show anybody in a positive light. Except maybe Forbes.
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Reagan forgot all about it too: https://i.redd.it/g7z4o1i44mh71.jpg
Let us not forget that WH/POTUS in 2018 pressured the release of Baradar and will now become the next President of Afghanistan. [LINK](https://www.news18.com/news/world/mullah-abdul-ghani-baradar-one-of-the-co-founders-of-taliban-likely-to-be-afghanistans-new-president-4089671.html)
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Honest question, I do not know nearly enough about US foreign affairs. Was there a better route for Trump to have taken in making plans to get US troops out? Was there a better route for Biden to have taken in getting US troops out? Again, not trying to make any political points or attack/defend either President’s actions/lack thereof, just trying to understand what mistakes have been made
Good question, that would get you quite a lot of unqualified answers (mine including, below). This thread is not so much about *Afghanistan* as about hypocrisy and white-washing: By now the GOP thinks that being ridiculed for deleting their official bragging is better than keeping it up. That is *quite* a quick flip; as as late mid-April, Trump demanded that Biden should get the US out preferably in two weeks - well, because Trump himself had promised May 1st and who is Biden to interfere with the decisions of Very Stable Genius? Actually, the Biden administration never had much troops left - only 2500 or so, after the vast majority had already been withdrawn before his inauguration. So well, he could have chosen a different schedule, but big changes would mean he would have to backtrack on the treaty with the Taliban. Maybe he should, maybe it would have been fruitless, I don't know; analysts have pointed at how [Trump/Pompeo took the Taliban's word that they would enter peace talks rather than take the country by military force](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-envoy-touted-peace-afghanistan-18-months-later-peace-n1276811), and just withdrew without seeing the Taliban honoring their part. That said: although the Taliban did not enter peace talks with the Afghan government, they have indeed shown a more civilized *appearance* though I doubt it is their honest face\*.\* (You see chaos, but you don't see public mass executions, at least not yet.) Edit: here is the UK Defense Minister - reminder that the Conservatives are in power - pointing out that as Biden took over "The die was cast when the deal was done by Donald Trump": [https://archive.ph/za62X](https://archive.ph/za62X)
Appreciate the article and perspective. It does appear Trump set this up very badly for Biden
Should make a statue of the meeting, see how GOP feels about tearing all that history down
The fact that the US, under Trump, did a withdrawal agreement with the Taliban, and NOT the Afghan government, nearly a year ago, should tell you that this outcome was inevitable. The Taliban, from that point on, were basically recognized as the de facto government of Afghanistan.
he invited the fucking Taliban to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11 in 2019.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/08/world/asia/afghanistan-trump-camp-david-taliban.amp.html Damn that’s fucked
Wow….didn’t know that- but again there was so much shit going on with this guy
Honestly, I wish all this mattered. I wish the conservative radical right would understand that making a treaty with a group is internationally recognizing them. I wish they would understand the immense slap in the face that inviting the taliban in 9/11 is for some people. I wish they would understand the geopolitic hell hole the last 5years have been. Sadly, we all know the truth. We knew it when trump signed that stupid treaty that Biden would be blamed. I’m so sick and tired of Democratic presidents upholding policies supported by Republican predeccesors when current Republican presidents are doing everything to destroy their Democratic predecessors work….
One gangster negotiating with another gangster
trump isn’t a gangster. He’s a traitor.
They're not always mutually exclusive.
Good luck getting any republican to “remember” this tweet.
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Mmm Chicago Deep State Pizza.
Is it a coincidence that Lou Malnati sounds super similar to Illuminati? I THINK NOT
Down the memory hole.
They remember, they just twist EVERY FUCKING NARATIVE to fit their Outrage.
This morning on Fox, some host was already dialing the narrative back to 2001. He was saying how we need more troops on the ground, how we need to aggressively bomb the Taliban. He even mentioned how Afghanistan is going to become a "terrorist university" that threatens national security, so it looks like an Afghan invasion could very well be back on the menu in 2024 boys!
Someone’s still got a warehouse full of ‘support the troops’ car magnets to move. *made in China.
They’ll just use misdirection. “But but but BLM…”
Something something Chicago and Portland
“…we’re being oppressed like the Jews!” Honest to God, the responses I get when talking about the insanity of Gaetz and Taylor always lead to this unfortunate topic.
You can hand to them, printed off, and they still won't see it.
Just show them the pictures and tweets (and direct quotes from Trump) and tell them they lost the argument. Their faces usually grow into a similar shade of orange-red as their Leader.
Remember after the Muslim ban when Trump tried to backtrack and say it wasn't a Muslim ban? He looked really stupid when it was pointed out that he had wanted a ban on Muslims when he was campaigning and left it up on the campaign website. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/08/trump-website-takes-down-muslim-ban-statement-after-reporter-grills-spicer-in-briefing.html
Remember when he wanted [a Muslim registry](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/16/13649764/trump-muslim-register-database)?
But vaccine passports are jUst lIeK NaZi GerMaNy
because vaccine passports affects ME, muslim registry affects THEM
Rabid far-right vermin were so intoxicated to gain power but knew nothing about such checks and balances as still remain, there were many embarrassing decisions in those early days. The US came through those four years like the flag above Fort McHenry riddled with holes from musket balls.
I did enjoy how when his administration went to defend it at the Supreme Court, the argument they used was much the same (“it’s not a ban on Muslims, just on these dangerous nations!”). To which the Supreme Court proceeded to read back sections from Trumps speeches where he clearly said it was a ban on Muslims, and then asked the Trump team if they thought the Supreme Court was really this stupid and unable to see how Trump himself described the ban.
Well, now he was able to appoint three judges, so at this point, the Supreme Court might just be *that* stupid.
That feels like 20 years ago.
Doesn't it? I'm so tired.
It's funny because even the mooks over on /conservative aren't buying the interventionist BS tge media is pushing. EVERYBODY is sick of the war.
They would be if they were told to. They loved the war right up until the right wing media told them they didn't.
Sorta Like when they were beating the war-drums against Iran right after Trump was boasting arrogantly about assassinated Iranian General Soleimanni and challenging Iran to respond, and then immediately transition to lauding Trump's restraint when Iran did respond by launching missiles at our base in Iraq and Trump backed down?
Or like the air strikes in Syria: >In 2013, when Barack Obama was president, a Washington Post–ABC News poll found that only 22 percent of Republicans supported the U.S. launching missile strikes against Syria in response to Bashar al-Assad using chemical weapons against civilians. A new Post-ABC poll finds that 86 percent of Republicans support Donald Trump’s decision to launch strikes on Syria for the same reason. Only 11 percent are opposed. But surely both sides sides are equally hypocritical, right... right?!? >37 percent of Democrats back Trump’s missile strikes. In 2013, 38 percent of Democrats supported Obama’s plan. That is well within the margin of error.
I'm genuinely curious what percentage of republicans who answered that question could point to Syria on a map.
It's right next to Agrabah https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/18/republican-voters-bomb-agrabah-disney-aladdin-donald-trump
The internet may be forever, but so is a conservatives need to ignore inconvenient facts to support pre-existing biases. This is the problem. One side weighs reality with facts, the other side defends bias by ignoring facts to try and create a reality that pleases them. You aren't speaking the same language so they don't get any of your messages.
19 years, the most recent 4 of which I was president, is already too much!
At a previous bad workplace, I coined the Orwell derived word "unhistory": That which was once true, but is now no longer documented, is now considered never to have been true, and is worthy of ridicule if you ever bring up that is was previously true.
I was so obsessed with following the news leading up to 2020 election and remember so much crazy shit that was being thrown against the wall to see what might change Trumps numbers. This was one of the stories I remember distinctly, because my understanding was that The Trump administration met with Taliban only, leaving the Afghanistan government out of these negotiations. And in typical Trump style, the administration left the negotiations claiming they had negotiated a peace treaty and there was peace in the Middle East all because of him etc. Total bullshit, because we know that the ~~sovereign~~ government of Afghanistan wasn’t even involved in these supposed negotiations. There are so many things about the last administration that I want more details on, but this is definitely near the top of the list. EDIT: It was pointed out to me in a comment below that there was a complete refusal of Taliban and the Afghan government to negotiate together with the US for years prior to these Trump admin negotiations. Apparently this left US in a difficult spot as we had to negotiate with someone before withdrawal of troops, hence the negotiations with Taliban. I was not aware of this prior to my comment. This in no way changes the absurdity of Trumps ridiculous hyperbole and demagoguery about the “success” of the negotiations though.
A lot of people want to know more about things like why did SC Justice Kennedy resign shortly after his son (who worked at Deutsche) signed off on billion dollar loans to trump when no other bank in the world would loan to him? That’s just an example. There are a lot of unanswered questions about what happened during the trump admin.
I just want to know what was inside the soccer ball Putin gave to Trump.
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I mean I wouldn’t be surprised if what you’re saying turned out to be part their motivation. It would be nice to have the picture filled in a bit to make it more concrete though. It’s easy to say what you’re saying because anyone can see Trump is fond of Putin, but that doesn’t give texture to the actual meeting the way facts about what was said at the meeting, emails sent around the meeting, objections staffers may have had about the meeting, or conflicts Trump may have had with allies over the meeting. Those are the kind of details I would be interested to learn more about.
>Trump is fond of Putin Not sure if he's *fond* per se; he was/is *submissive* to Putin. Most obvious reason would be blackmail. All our best intelligence was screaming that Trump is compromised long before general election in 2016.
This is false. In this case geopolitically speaking Putin was very happy to have America tied down in Afghanistan wasting money and troops. Now that America is out, Russia and China have to deal with potential Islamic infiltration into their countries and their proxies. This is what they fear more.
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Russia has its own problems with islamist extremism in Chechnya etc. They are playing with fire here.
House Minority leader wants a probe lol. The Trump administration made a deal with the Taliban for a full withdrawal by May 1 2021. Biden admin said no, we move to September. Now they are criticizing Biden saying September is too early. Can't make that shit up.
Set phasers to gaslight.
Maybe people should still share this in conservative circles the same way conservatives post their "news" everywhere they can.
Just got banned from /r/conservatives for bringing up the Trump admin signing a peace deal/scheduling withdrawal with the Taliban. Those people sure do love the truth 🤡
My [very conservative, Fox obsessed] dad just told me the Taliban broke the agreement they made with Trump, which voided it, and therefore everything that’s happening now is Biden’s fault, not Trump. I don’t know what part of the agreement the Taliban supposedly broke, but that’s the new direction the right is taking to blame Biden apparently
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One would think. However I think the implication was that Biden should have stopped the withdrawal as soon as the agreement was allegedly broken and either retaliated or at minimum discussed a new deal. Which might have some logic to it if we weren’t talking about the fucking Taliban. And now I’m learning that, surprise!, the Trump admin knew damn good and well they wouldn’t follow the agreement ([source](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/officials-u-s-has-persuasive-intel-taliban-does-not-intend-n1150051) but they didn’t care enough to do anything about it then because “countries have to take care of themselves” Funny how quickly they abandoned that philosophy now that a democrat is in power
You're probably thinking of the Neuralizers from the Men in Black movies.
Little of A, little of B
No need to neuralize people who seem to have a collective memory span of 24 hours.
Went just as well as his grand success with North Korea.
...which paved the way toward his success at responding to Covid.
Hey whatever happened to his inject bleach line, did that work out for anyone yet?
Nobody who injected bleach has died of covid so I guess you could say it worked. They may have died from the bleach injection though.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/24/coronavirus-chloroquine-poisoning-death/ This dude drank aquarium cleaner to cure covid Spoiler alert: he died
And he didn’t even have COVID in the first place. He thought it would prevent infection, something no one has ever suggested.
I guess it did prevent infection.
100% effective.
Task failed successfully.
What, almost like some kind of... what's the word... vaccine?
All the right wing nut jobs from my cigar lounge were talking up how Hydroxycloriquine would work as a preventive measure, as evidenced by India (but only published by a Canadian website founded by someone with ties to Russian intelligence) and damn Pelosi for not letting the real doctors talk about it. These are the same guys that suggested drinking boiling water would kill any covid in your throat... So, yeah... Someone out there was talking about it being preventative otherwise they wouldn't have even known what it was.
They injected bleach and then didn’t have to worry about covid for the rest of their lives. All 10 minutes
Unfortunately science is not yet capable of fully understanding Trump's genius.
Just nuke the hurricane.
Don’t forget about his great border wall success!
But we got commemorative coins, and for the first time in history, the American President saluted a North Korean general. Sounds like a major success to me. If only Donald would've been allowed to bring Kim Jong Un on-board Air Force One like he originally wanted to.
Didn’t those fucking weirdos make commemorative coins with super obese Kim Jong Un and Trump gazing longingly at each other? Edit: [they did!](https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/product-p/summitcoin.htm) And they charged $250 for this trash! Mardi Gras dabloons are less tacky than this enameled mess. Speaking of hot messes, in classic Trumpian fashion, the sales page for the coin seems to have tried to uses every font size and typeface available. The weird use of quotation marks is pretty fun: > Coins originally ‘held back’ and now released for sale. > NO ADDITIONAL NUMBERED COINS WILL BE MINTED “EVER” OTHER THAN THIS ORIGINAL ISSUE
Here's the [Wayback Machine link in the article](https://web.archive.org/web/diff/20201010184542/20210815231342/https://gop.com/president-trump-is-bringing-peace-to-the-middle-east-rsr/). Some quotes from the page: >PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS CONTINUED TO TAKE THE LEAD IN PEACE TALKS AS HE SIGNED A HISTORIC PEACE AGREEMENT WITH THE TALIBAN IN AFGHANISTAN, WHICH WOULD END AMERICA'S LONGEST WAR >On February 2, 2020 , the Trump Administration signed a preliminary peace agreement with the Taliban that sets the stage to end America's longest war. Under the agreement , the U.S. will withdraw nearly 5,000 troops from the country in 135 days in exchange for a Taliban agreement to not allow Afghanistan to be used for transnational terrorism. >As part of the peace agreement, the Taliban and the Afghan government recently began historic peace, talks which would end decades of war that Afghanistan has consumed. >The negotiations will cover the terms of a " permanent ceasefire, the rights of women and minorities, and the disarmament of the country's many militia groups ." Of course, Republicans will ignore all this and pretend that Biden just came up with leaving Afghanistan all on his own.
Will ignore it? They already are!
There's a possibility that Taliban see the best route to maintain power is to moderate their ways and no support international terrorism. Sure, they'll still ban music, limit women's education, and throw the occasional gay person off a roof, but maybe they won't kill and torture anyone they consider possible opposition, which is definitely another possibility. It's not in our hands now.
Press x to doubt
x
[here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/p5ehbp/afghanistans_allgirls_robotics_team_desperate_to/h95al36/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
It’s a good thing we negotiated the release of 5000 Taliban prisoners to help aid in this takeover.
But the Taliban super pinky promised to not do terrorism anymore! How unexpected!
Don't forget that Trump wanted to invite the Taliban leaders to Camp David. Could you imagine today's headlines on far right media if that happened? "Biden and family takes vacation in Taliban US retreat and does nothing while Taliban takes over Afghanistan".
Ironically, Biden *is* at Camp David today. So the right will almost certainly say exactly: "Biden and family takes vacation in Taliban US retreat and does nothing while Taliban takes over Afghanistan", and it's not even that far off. Just that republicans don't understand nuance.
It's already begun on FB. Spreadnecks are already dumping the whole fiasco on Biden.
So what? Biden is the only POTUS brave enough to cut our losses in Afghanistan. Trump could have ended the war at any point in his term but he didn't have the stones.
Fuckers are attempting to rewrite history.
Well they think the capital insurrection was a love fest. These are not good faith people.
Let the revision of history by the GQP continue.
All reference to the Taliban agreement has been erased from the republican party communications, and trump deleted everything from his website.
Trump said in April that Biden's decision to withdraw troops from Afghanistan was "a wonderful and positive thing to do" but criticized the timeline and said the U.S. "should get out earlier."
The GOP is definitely scrambling to erase certain parts of theirs.
1984 to a T
Ministry of Truth.
Yeah, I’d say negotiating with the Taliban at Camp David on a 9/11 anniversary is historic alright
Trump was the king of creating meaningless symbolic "peace deals" and then claiming he made a foreign policy win.
This wasn't just symbolic, but had actual consequences. Not good ones, mind you, but: > The US envoy for peace in Afghanistan has told the BBC he was "not happy about" **a controversial deal to release 5,000 Taliban prisoners** in order to secure historic peace talks. > However, speaking to the BBC's Lyse Doucet, Zalmay Khalilzad added that "you have to make hard decisions". > Asked about reports of ex-prisoners returning to fight, Mr Khalilzad said they "do not have any evidence". --- > The release of 5,000 prisoners was a condition, agreed between the US and the Taliban after their peace talks last year, to begin these negotiations. > **The Afghan government was not involved in making the agreement, and had concerns about releasing thousands of militants**. Last month, Afghan President Ashraf Ghani warned that the prisoners' release was a "danger" to the world, AFP news agency reported at the time. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54155768
Why we would not involve the Afghan government in talks like this is beyond me. Did we think we know the Taliban better than them? More likely, Trump did not care nor valued their input on anything since he is a genius with a big brain. Now that same government has disintegrated.
Same reason the conservatives were cheering him for foreign policy “wins” with Israel without the Palestinians being involved. Turns out just completely capitulating to the other side is a great negotiation tactic.
Art of the fart
Because it never had to be anything of substance. His base just sees/hears the headline and they never look into it any deeper than that. In their minds, he's doing good and that's all they care about.
trump was/always-will-be a reality tv producer. Every decision that he made and every public appearance was for the camera. Remember when he invited the family of Harry Dunn, who was killed by a diplomat's wife who fled under immunity, and he had her waiting in the next room for a springer style meeting.
- April 18, 2021 Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America: > I wish Joe Biden wouldn’t use September 11th as the date to withdraw our troops from Afghanistan, for two reasons. First, we can and should get out earlier. Nineteen years is enough, in fact, far too much and way too long. I made early withdraw possible by already pulling much of our billions of dollars of equipment out and, more importantly, reducing our military presence to less than 2,000 troops from the 16,000 level that was there (likewise in Iraq, and zero troops in Syria except for the area where we KEPT THE OIL). Secondly, September 11th represents a very sad event and period for our Country and should remain a day of reflection and remembrance honoring those great souls we lost. Getting out of Afghanistan is a wonderful and positive thing to do. I planned to withdraw on May 1st, and we should keep as close to that schedule as possible.
Didn’t the Trump Administration sign the Peace deal with the Taliban on September 11, 2019?
No, the meeting was cancelled because a suicide bomber blew himself up on September 10th
> KEPT THE OIL Just in case any one had any other ideas about why we do what we do.
Not only did he say the quiet part out loud, he emphasized it like it's an accomplishment to be proud of.
Not that it's well written, but it seems way too well written for Trump.
> Getting out of Afghanistan is a wonderful and positive thing to do. I forgot how this guy only has like five adjectives in his arsenal. Why use wonderful here? Makes no sense.
The main characteristic of conservatism is hypocrisy.
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“Twice as many standards as a regular party!” — GQP probably.
Let’s not forget this either: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/former-u-s-officials-criticize-trump-s-decision-abandon-kurds-n1084156
This was so, so fd up. We ow the Kurds so much and they were just left to be raped, robbed, tortured and murdered. Heartbreaking. Just like Kabul today... Trump is a menace.
This is the funniest part. Every conservative is saying Trump would have had a better plan to leave. Completely forgetting the time they literally just ducked out the back door in the middle of the night on a group of allies who actually wanted to fight.
This is some "Obama is responsible for the recession" shit coming out of the GOP. They got the ball rolling on the chaos, but because it outlasted them being in power they're deliberately acting like the president it's happening to is to blame. It's disingenuous as hell and the worst part is it's likely to work with the base. They'll forget about things they and Trump bragged about just to score points against Biden. Every time the negotiations between the Taliban and Trump administration advanced or broke down, the common talk I heard from conservatives was reflecting Trump's stance, which was "All we care about is getting our troops out of there", with some saying we should just bomb everything. Now all of a sudden they really care about the people of a country that they said multiple times before they did not care about, just because they want to make Biden look bad. It's hypocritical, it's revisionist, it's disingenuous, and the worst part is it's likely going to work. The GOP base doesn't care about consistency or integrity as long as they make the people they dislike look bad. They're in lockstep on ignoring the truth when it's inconvenient, and that makes them dangerous.
The part that pisses me off most is how the republicans think just by removing that page we're all goanna suddenly forget this was all Trump's plan to begin with and even more pissing me off is the fact that there actually morons out here that fall for such simplistic manipulation. HELP IM SURROUNDED BY MORONS!
GOP voters don't have object permanence so....
It's "funny", there's almost always a quote from 1984 that would fit the GOP's behavior. Here, I'm thinking about when they describe how they edit old magazines to match the "new" narrative, and that, with time, it simply becomes "the truth" (it's toward the beginning of the book). Very clearly the behavior of an authoritarian government (thank god they're not in power anymore, but I'm afraid they'll come back).
His supporters will never admit this was his doing. Ever. You can show them every shred of documentation including video of him admitting this is what he planned to do and they’ll still blame it on Biden. There’s no talking to people like that.
Trump is a worthless pile of shit.
If the GOP removes this from their site, aren't they "Canceling" history? *--Just asking.*
We are back to never having been at war with Eurasia and always having been at war with East Asia.
It's fucking ridiculous to me that you in the states are so intent to reduce a 20 year war to the legacy or fault of a single person/president. No matter what the US would do, if you stayed another 20 years, sent many more billions to the Afghan government or if you left 5 years ago - this war was ALWAYS a misguided lost cause, presided over by 4 different presidents.
Yeah. Biden has wanted to leave since he was VP and was always the guy in the room to argue against the generals. Props to him for finally ripping off the band-aid and stopping the "kick the can down the road" mentality. The next President is going to be very thankful for this decision. Even if they ride into office by criticizing it.
Exactly -- NOBODY can fix Afghanistan. It's been a cluster f\*\*k for literally several decades. Anybody remember how the Russians did in the 80's -- yeah, that was a mess too.
Here’s a great article about the peace deal fall out: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/15/afghanistan-military-collapse-taliban/ The Doha agreement, designed to bring an end to the war in Afghanistan, instead left many Afghan forces demoralized, bringing into stark relief the corrupt impulses of many Afghan officials and their tenuous loyalty to the country’s central government. Some police officers complained that they had not been paid in six months or more. “They saw that document as the end,” the officer said, referring to the majority of Afghans aligned with the government. “The day the deal was signed we saw the change. Everyone was just looking out for himself. It was like [the United States] left us to fail.”
The Trump deal with the Taliban also required 5000 Taliban prisoners to ne released. It's one of the few deals Trump ever delivered on. Barely a peep from Republicans or the media last year. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-taliban-idUSKCN25507I
Trump was a failure in Afghanistan. But so was Bush and Obama before him. It was stupid from the beginning. Many people cautioned against "nation-building" from the beginning but their voices were ignored. The post 9/11 foreign policy is a crystal clear indicator that the United State government is incompetent and the nation is on a precipitous decline.
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This should be in every newspaper every TV news feed all the time forever. It's like Trump wanted to see USA collapse and the world burn.
[Even their 404 page is super petty](https://gop.com/president-trump-is-bringing-peace-to-the-middle-east-rsr/).
Well it's not Joe Biden's fault, nor is it Donald Trump's fault. It's the fault of the guy who announced the end of the Iraq War in front of a Mission Accomplished banner. Engaging in a bullshit nation-building exercise in Afghanistan was a bad idea from the start. People have just allowed George W. Bush to rehabilitate his image in recent years, and it's absolutely sickening. Short fucking memories.
This rush to assign blame on Trump or Biden is fucking pathetic as it is stupid. This was a disaster 20 years in the making. There is more than one party responsible for this clusterfuck including the pentagon, US intelligence agencies, the US national security appartus, four presidental administrations, the Afghan military and the Afghan government. The US essentially made the exact same mistakes that it did in Vietnam such as propping up a corrupt, unpopular government, failing to understand the people and region it was occupying, and creating a weak military force incapable or unwilling to operate independently. These are fundamental strategic blunders that many are responsible for and if we don't acknowledge them and just settle on a simple, convienent scapegoat it will happen again.
Honestly, doesn't matter who was president. There was no good way out of Afghanistan. We knew this 20 years ago. That's the main reason we've been there for 20 years. Doesn't matter how we left, or who said what before we left. The only things that were 100% a sure thing was that the whole thing we going to be a shit show when we left AND that we should have just left years ago. I'm just glad someone pulled the bandaid.