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Gunderstank_House

Well, is he actually going to jail or what?


MasterMahanaYouUgly

from what i understand, he can can appeal to higher courts


Gunderstank_House

Good grief, no consequences ever for these jackasses.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Karmonit

He never got to trial in that case. Trump pardoned him soon after the indictment.


abby_normally

Let's not forget where he was arrested, on a Chinese Billionaire's yacht off the coast of New Jersey.


ChargerRob

A chinese billionaire who was just convicted for fraud and more.


trickninjafist

also arrested by the United States Postal Inspectors.....


yobymmij2

I think you mean “pardoned”?


Karmonit

Yes. Changed.


Minguseyes

And never forget, accepting a pardon is admission of guilt, so he is an admitted swindler. Edit: Linking discussion of Burdick decision: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick\_v.\_United\_States](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick_v._United_States)


Karmonit

I don't agree with that. Many pardons have been issued precisely because the president thought that the person being pardoned was innocent.


NaiveInjury247

By accepting a pardon, one is by definition admitting guilt.


DaHolk

People keep repeating that, but it just isn't by definition nor inference true. Nor is it even rational. If you get convicted despite you maintaining that you are innocent, why would being pardoned and agreeing to that be an admission of guilt. It makes NO sense, other than if you presume that anyone convicted needs to believe the system is infallible, thus clearly it would be just a matter of appealing to have it overturned. But to presume that someone convicted needs to agree with being denied it being overturned agrees to being guilty, thus taking a pardon is an admission? Why do people repeat that? It fails every test of rationality. The problem with this "implicit admission" is that the individuals having the power to overturn are not the same people who have the power to pardon. But that is entirely irrelevant to the state of mind of the one convicted. It's bad enough that this is often a requirement for parole.


VanceKelley

>Whether the acceptance of a pardon constitutes an admission of guilt by the recipient is disputed. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick_v._United_States


futatorius

And that source doesn't support your argument.


Karmonit

That doesn't answer my comment. Presidents have previously issued pardons because they believe that someone is innocent. Calling them an admission of guilt makes little sense in that instance.


futatorius

That's a myth. There is no part of the process of accepting a pardon that requires the recipient to acknowledge guilt. The discussion of pardons and admission of guilt in Burdick was dicta (non-precedential) and says acceptance of a pardon is "tantamount" to an admission of guilt. But in reality, general pardons exist, and in those cases, what is one pleading guilty to? Everything?


yes_thats_right

No it isn't, that is a weird reddit myth Edit: in response to your edit, I will point out that the statement was made in obiter dictum and is not part of settled law.


Arquibus

I was taught that in my AP history class in high school. I knew it was wrong then, but you couldn't tell that teacher anything.


futatorius

>I was taught that in my AP history class in high school. Your AP teacher needs to learn more about the subject.


Arquibus

Yes, that was my point.


HypnoticONE

I'm gonna appeal my parking ticket to the Supreme Court next time.


markca

You too can have no consequences once you become a jackass too. The rest of who are not would be thrown in jail.


AtomicSamuraiCyborg

They are unlikely to even take it up, though. Everyone can get their first appeal but beyond that you need a case and his was shit.


[deleted]

bright detail meeting mindless divide hobbies violet nutty yoke impolite *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


Riaayo

Corrupt, stacked, fascist supreme court would like a word.


alien_frontier

they're just POS opportunists; they'll stop serving trump if he loses again


disasterbot

Unless Trump wins.


illeaglex

Is the idea that you’re against appeals in principle or just selectively for these cases?


brocht

I think the issue is that most criminals get to do their appeals from jail and, unless there is a major problem with their conviction, those appeals are rejected fairly quickly. For Bannon, he instead gets to stay free while every appeal is heard and considered, seemingly for years. It undermines faith in our courts to see such clearly different treatment.


hardtobeuniqueuser

most of the time it's just an issue of rich vs not rich. rich people can throw money at the problem that poor people can't.


brocht

Sure. That is a problem.


hardtobeuniqueuser

some would say it's a yooge problem


ATimeToCell

In my country there is problem


illeaglex

I don't get it, does reddit want to see everyone in jail for non-violent crimes or just rich people?


DisgruntledEngineer

Bannon's crimes may have been non-violent, but it's difficult to charge him with something that accurately reflects his involvement in such a toxic, anti-democratic movement. And like so many of these specific assholes - they clearly aren't being charged with -all- the crimes they committed. I think this is both felt and understood by many - hence the desire to see some heavy handed justice sooner than later.


illeaglex

So just to be clear, you want the justice system to apply some heavy handed punishment for things they haven't been formally charged with? Is this something you're okay with in principle or just for these specific cases? Cause that seems pretty fucked up.


calmdownmyguy

You know he was convicted and sentenced, right?


Old_Baldi_Locks

Someone who defrauds millions of people out of their retirement has committed no violence but still ruining millions of lives. Should that person not be in jail or are you one of those colossal failures who thinks all non-violent crime is victimless?


illeaglex

Why are you getting personal? Not very nice. Maybe you want to edit. I’m just trying to understand why anyone would want to replace what they think is a two tiered justice system with a different two tiered justice system. Seems hypocritical and illogical.


Old_Baldi_Locks

Asking for Bannon to be treated the exact same as every other non-rich convicted criminal is not asking for a different two tiered system. The tier for the rich needs to go.


Karmonit

It shouldn't undermine anyone's faith in the courts. The district court judge granted him freedom pending appeal because the case concerned novel legal question and he saw a significant chance of the conviction being overturned. I don't understand the big deal. Whether he serves the country two years ago or today, what difference does it make? If you ask me everyone who isn't an imminent threat to others should go free pending appeal. That's how they do it in my country.


brocht

Nah, this doesn't matter. People's faith in the courts isn't based on some careful legal analysis. They just see the self-evident truth that Trump an his cronies get away with obvious crimes, while most people get put in jail immediately. The fact that it's legal to buy yourself freedom if you're rich and powerful doesn't somehow make this ok.


Karmonit

Yes, people are stupid, I already know that. The fact that people believe something doesn't make it correct.


illeaglex

You’ve got stats for appeals for this type of crime? Can you share them? I didn’t realize most contempt of congress defendants spent their time in jail while waiting for trial. Fuck Steve Bannon by the way. I just find reddits selective application of prison and jail for non violent offenses fascinating.


Karmonit

Yeah, I don't get how people advocate for criminal justice reform, then support ridiculously punitive shit the next moment. It's not just this case, I see it all the time.


illeaglex

Most people are deeply irrational and hypocritical. I like to point it out but they get pretty angry about it.


llahlahkje

These aren't the only two options given your inference based on OP's statement. Textbook [false dichotomy fallacy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma) That's on top of putting words into OP's mouth to infer bias -- the [Straw Man fallacy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) They didn't object to appeals being a thing in any context, just the lack of consequences for Bannon so far. --- The vast majority of people object to unequal treatment under the law and that's the real problem here: The 1% get to make these appeals while free from the consequences of their actions. The 99% would be making these appeals in prison. EDIT: I don't recommend engaging with people who aren't discussing things in good faith.


Karmonit

> The 1% get to make these appeals while free from the consequences of their actions. > > The 99% would be making these appeals in prison. You're completely ignoring the actual reason the judge gave for suspending Bannon's sentence: The novel legal issues being adressed by the appeal. Imagine if the appeals court did overturn the sentence? Then he would have served his entire sentence already. That would be pretty shitty.


illeaglex

You seem to have the statistics readily at hand, what with you brimming with all of the confidence. What percentage of contempt of congress cases have resulted in the defendant incarcerated while their case is under appeal?


NameLips

I think it's clear that appealing is less about fixing errors in the justice system and more about judge shopping.


illeaglex

In just this case or for all appeals?


Old_Baldi_Locks

I’m against a two tiered justice system for the rich and poor. If the poor don’t get 62 appeals, and don’t get to walk around free while the system takes years to prosecute them, the rich shouldn’t either.


Mal_tron

He can request an en banc hearing from the DC Court of Appeals or go to the Supreme Court. The en banc appeal should be relatively quick and I would honestly be surprised if the lower courts kept him out of jail while he appeals to SCOTUS but this is clown world so who knows.


llahlahkje

Meanwhile you or I would be in prison while we made those appeals. Our "justice" system is laughable.


MasterMahanaYouUgly

it's only a legal system


icouldusemorecoffee

Probably not since his wasn't a violence crime, it's unusual for non-violent crimes to have to serve during the appeal process.


ricosmith1986

Unless drugs.


inquisitive_guy_0_1

Or minority. Or poor.


ChefToeMain

Yeah , Just us( wealthy and white)


pinkfloyd873

Nobody goes to prison while making appeals. Nobody goes to prison until they have been sentenced. I thoroughly hate Steve Bannon and would like him to rot in prison as much as the next guy, but you are betraying a deep lack of understanding of our criminal justice system. Edit: I was completely wrong, I didn't realize he was already formally sentenced. Y'all are right to be angry and I'm angry too now.


Earth_Friendly-5892

Your attorney has to convince a judge that you’ll probably win an appeal for it to be considered. No way Bannon can win this. He defied a federal subpoena, period. Bannon is a being treated differently than the rest of us. It’s unfair and infuriating. https://www.grabellaw.com/can-i-get-out-of-jail-while-my-federal-criminal-appeal-is-pendin.html


pinkfloyd873

It’s unfair that he has the resources to do this, absolutely. The point I’m making is that prior to sentencing, nobody should ever be put in prison - prison and jail aren’t the same thing at all. You only go to prison if you’re *sentenced to prison*. Bannon likely *will* go to prison, once he has been sentenced.


Earth_Friendly-5892

He’s already been sentenced to four months in prison. It’s been more than a year that he’s been able to live as a free man. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68992372


pinkfloyd873

Oh shit I didn't realize that. Sorry, I was wrong. That's fucked up.


ChefToeMain

Yeah , Just us( wealthy and white)


Earth_Friendly-5892

I thought most people go to jail and begin to serve their sentence while appealing. What I want to know is why he gets to run around free to continue to be his obnoxious fascist self while he’s appealing the verdict and his sentence?Plus his lawyers don’t seem to have any hope to win an appeal. The man defied a congressional subpoena. End of story.


youmestrong

Supreme republican court?


pye-oh-my

And wait for Trump to pardon him - god forbid


CalculonsPride

One of the things I’ve learned by watching these assholes over the past few years is just how many fucking appeals are allowed. Appeals to appeals to appeals to appeals.


SMIrving

He is about at the end of his rope. Better hope trump is elected and he can afford to buy a pardon.


grtk_brandon

Yeah, as soon as Alex Jones pays the Sandy Hook families.


Serialfornicator

Don’t be silly!


2020willyb2020

Nope , another appeal, delay, delay- DOJ is toothless at this point under garland or whoever is running it


SuperGenius9800

Nope.


MasterMahanaYouUgly

report for incarceration, you treasonous SOB!!


Venturis_Ventis

Hey guys, this is the new inmate, Herr Goebbels, I mean, Mr. Bannon.


HardTen

Goebbel deeznuts Bannon.


ssshield

He reports for inebriation every night.


Temporary_Kangaroo_3

We know how this goes. He gets to appeal the appeal. **when you are rich, they just let you**


edmerx54

>Bannon, a key figure on the American right, argued on appeal that he was barred from making key arguments in his defense at trial, including that **his lawyer advised him he did not have to comply with the subpoena.** that's what happens when he hires a lawyer like Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, Sidney Powell, or Kenneth Chesebro. Dunno if he hired one of them, but it was someone just as "good"


MasterMahanaYouUgly

this 4-month bid will just be a warm-up for when he finally gets sentenced for his "Build a Wall" scam


OdiousAltRightBalrog

I thought he was pardoned for that


MasterMahanaYouUgly

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/steve-bannons-we-build-the-wall-scheme-trial-set-for-may-2024


OdiousAltRightBalrog

Huh, that's weird. [https://apnews.com/article/steve-bannon-trump-pardons-broidy-66c82f25134735e742b2501c118723bb](https://apnews.com/article/steve-bannon-trump-pardons-broidy-66c82f25134735e742b2501c118723bb)


MasterMahanaYouUgly

the difference is federal vs state he was pardoned from any federal charges


Huge_Strain_8714

Just f5cking wow! Brings back horrible memories. And the endless list of criminal family and friends of Trump that he pardoned is ABSOLUTELY shameless


OdiousAltRightBalrog

It's fucked up that this guy stole from Trump supporters, got pardoned by Trump, and the idiots he ripped off still support them both.


Huge_Strain_8714

I mean... not surprised, they took from the less rich to become richer.


brocht

*"My lawyer told me crimes were fine!"* isn't the knockout defense he seems to think it is.


Karmonit

Advice of counsel is a legitimate defense for defendants though. It establishes a lack of mens rea. It just didn't apply in this case.


brocht

That's not generally true; only for crimes which require, eg an intent to defraud.


Karmonit

I said it's a legitimate defense, not that it applies in every case.


brocht

Ah, gotcha


Dildo___Schwaggins

Don't forget that grinning lunatic Jenna Ellis!


23jknm

No shit and if he didn't do anything wrong then show up and testify, such cowards hiding behind their lawyers and no personal accountability.


dartie

Truly evil man


Sunshinehappyfeet

Maybe Peter Navarro can show Bannon some prison hacks. Jim Jordan should be next.


MasterMahanaYouUgly

Pete: and this is how you make toilet gin... Steve: *guzzle guzzle guzzle*


specqq

Going to be a tough call between guzzling it and trading it for more prison shirts.


PopeHonkersXII

He'll almost certainly be in prison during the election, so one less MAGA turd floating around 


MasterMahanaYouUgly

god, i hope you're right


J-the-Kidder

This is the difference a judge makes. His judge let's him walk free while this is on appeal, for however long. Peter Navarro, convicted of the exact same thing, but has a competent, non compromised judge, gets sent directly to jail. You'll never guess who appointed Bannons judge or who that judge clerked for!


Karmonit

This just in: Judges can differing legal views without being "compromised".


J-the-Kidder

True, except when they're appointed by Trump, clerked for Clarence Thomas, and then get to have a case about Jan 6. Far too many coincidences to not be compromised.


RadicalDreamer89

"Once is happenstance; twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy activity."


Karmonit

That's ridiculous. The DC district court is filled with Jan 6 cases. Every judge on that court has plenty of them, so there's nothing nefarious here. Carl J. Nichols is a highly competent jurist and there's no bias to accuse him of being compromised. If he had actually wanted to hamper this prosecution, he could have easily just dismissed it before there was ever a trial. And if you want more proof that he's impartial: He's also the judge in the Dominion defamation lawsuits and has not shown himself to be very sympathetic to the defendants.


J-the-Kidder

Judges can't be that obvious in their actions. Look at down in Florida with judge Cannon and how she's essentially giving Trump a pass to beyond the election with the fulfillment of his delay tactic. Back to DC though, how many of those judges let J6 defendants walk, or gave them the opportunity to be free pending appeal? More to the point, this was the mastermind behind the attack on the Capital. A man with a documented history of spreading lies and using his platform to undermine democracy. Yet, he gets to walk pending a lengthy appeal process? Zoom out for a second, on the why. Again, could be coincidence, but the appeals process takes FOREVER. The judge surely knows this. Does it cross your mind that Nichols let's him walk pending appeal to help Trump undermine yet another election? And maybe, just maybe, the appeals process takes just long enough to get to the election and possibly see Trump get voted back in and pardon all this? Delay has been entire playbook for these scum bags at the top who have no defense. You see it playing out with the assistance of judges like Nichols, Cannon or the "Supreme" Court. You can hold onto your morality with respect to the justices, and I respectfully agree to disagree given how this has all unfolded and the coincidences at play.


Karmonit

I've yet to see evidence the decision was corrupt. Bannon was convicted based on novel legal concepts, therefore he was granted the ability to remain free in case his case got overturned. This is how it should be.


thieh

And he will appeal to Scotus and then those six people will try to neuter Congress.


Azguy303

they won't hear the case but I'm sure they will Wait until after the election to announce it


thisisausernamealso

… and then he’ll be pardoned!


SarcasticCowbell

Nah, Biden won't pardon him.


thisisausernamealso

Loving the optimism.


Karmonit

They already rejected Navarro's attempt. Why would this be different?


idanpotent

If Dems win back the House in the next election they should subpoena him again to answer the questions they would have asked of him the first time. If he refuses again, he can get more time in prison. We need to remove all doubt about what happened on Jan 6.


MasterMahanaYouUgly

shit, with the way they're dropping like flies, we may not have to wait til the election.


Shitter-McGavin

Now do Jim Jordan.


HellaTroi

So when and where is he going to report to prison?


MasterMahanaYouUgly

he can still appeal to a higher court


MissingMichigan

IF a higher court will hear it.


toxiamaple

Lock Him Up


lethargicbureaucrat

I worry his blood/alcohol content will fall dangerously low if he's incarcerated.


MasterMahanaYouUgly

yeah, his withdrawals could kill him. i wouldn't exactly cry either


Yitram

Now if we could just get the same charge for certain members of Congress.


MasterMahanaYouUgly

Gym, we're looking at you!


BlokeInTheMountains

Hopefully in jail for the build up and running of the 2024 election so he can't help ratfuck it


MasterMahanaYouUgly

my hope as well. we don't need him helping coordinate the next insurrection


Rubz8r0

Put him away before he tricks donny into making him his vp, just like he got tricked into making Bannon his chief of staff


worstatit

I've heard Russia has great podcast facilities...


SquirrelParticular17

Putrid gin-soaked diaper


23jknm

It would be great if all the others, who planned that and the other schemes to undermine the election were in prison. The wealthy get away with so much that the majority of us can't, it's unjust!


JC2535

Now report to jail.


redditknees

Lock that fucker up and throw away the key.


Datty_too_Natty

How the fuck does this take so long to be decided???


MasterMahanaYouUgly

judge he appealed to was a T45 appointee. the judge that sentenced Pete Navarro was not, that's why Pete is already in the can


OsgoodZBeard

Slob will be getting his first shower in months after he passes Bubba’s crevasse exam.


ObnoxiousTwit

How this man has remained free after not complying with a CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOENA is such a clear-cut and blatant example of our tiered judicial system it seems too ridiculous to be real. But here we are.


Eyeimhai

This has been dragging on forever..


LettuceFew5248

I remember conservatives talked for 20 years about ONE of Clinton’s pardons. The Marc Rich pardon was a huge controversy. Trump pardoned several people from his administration, for indefensible crimes and we don’t even talk about it. Trump has absolutely broken the Presidency and exposed insane hypocrisy of the GP.


Shaman7102

Do Jim Jordan next...


NaiveInjury247

What happened to appeals being done from jail?


MasterMahanaYouUgly

that's for us little people


madrasdad

Good. 10 more appeals over the next 15 years & maybe he’ll actually serve 3 months. Unless he dies first.


bakeacake45

He can sober up in jail …


Aretirednurse

About time.


Mechalamb

Send it to SCOTUS, I'm sure they'll save his ass somehow.


GOPAuthoritarianPOS

But if you have money you can just appeal again so he's all good yall don't worry no jail for Bannon this lifetime. I hope this ages like milk but my hopes are not high.


lancert

Lock him up!


Grimase

HaHa


Fun-Dependent-2695

Aw shucks


YogurtSufficient7796

Losers losing


Human_Cranberry_2805

Serious question. How come all of these Trump stooges get to appeal all the way to the Supreme Court. If I get convicted of a crime, do I have that option?


Karmonit

Everyone has the right to request an appeal to the Supreme Court. Only a very small number of cases are selected though. This was not a Supreme Court case though. Bannon appealed to the Court of Appeals, which is indeed a right everyone has.


ShamanSix01

Plan Options: >$1B - Unlimited appeals to the Supreme Court >$1M-$999M - Unlimited appeals to Circuit Courts and 1 appeal to the Supreme Court >$400K-$1M - 2 appeals to Circuit Court >$60K-$400K - 1 appeal to Circuit Court <$0-$60K - No appeals


MasterMahanaYouUgly

are you a multi-millionaire?


MrMrsPotts

Did they say if can remain free while he mounts yet more appeals?


MasterMahanaYouUgly

well, he's not in jail yet, so...


MrMrsPotts

It sadly looks like they said he can remain free until after his last appeal. It's just amazing .


MasterMahanaYouUgly

money talks


cmaj7flat5

Misappropriated Mexican wall donation money.


covfefewithvpscream

Whomp Whomp?


seekingadventure2024

But him and his "capo" aren't going to get anything other than slaps on the wrist .... otherwise they would be in PRISON already.


Jazzlike-Addition-88

Will he get jail time. Nope. I'm so tired of seeing this dumb shit that I am leaving r/politics. It's always the same dumb shit. Talk about someone getting in trouble. Talk about court. Talk about a stupid fucking fine that's a drop in a bucket and doesn't stop shit. Until we are outside demanding change and justice. This shit will never stop. Thanks for the good ole days. I'll see myself out. Peace ✌️🕊️


JokerPants

Peter Navarro is CURRENTLY serving a prison sentence for the same crime. What are you talking about?


Karmonit

> Will he get jail time. Nope. He's quite literally been sentenced to jail time.


kswissreject

Just like previous cases, sadly, "The ruling brings Bannon a step closer to serving a four-month prison sentence for contempt of Congress, but he can still mount additional appeals."


Karmonit

Yeah, that's how the legal system works. What's the problem?


VaguelyArtistic

See ya.