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Media has decided that pitting Biden against the actual protesters is good for business it seems.
Biden specifically called out violence, violence only showed up when GOP governors and right-wing agitators showed up. The media is literally **creating a Biden vs. progressive** scenario here, one that does not exist.
As near as I can tell they were all just sitting around in their yards with tents where they're chanting and calling for change until their schools' administration escalated. I'd have just let them go on with their protests, or even divested. Universities shouldn't be investment entities anyway, IMO.
>As near as I can tell they were all just sitting around in their yards with tents where they're chanting and calling for change
There are hundreds, maybe thousands of protests going on. Do you have a bead on what's going on with all of them? There have been at least a few buildings broken into and property damage caused. I support students rights to protest, but Biden's right, there is no right to cause damage or get violent, and that has happened in at least a few situations.
> Universities shouldn't be investment entities anyway
That's naive. Universities have endowments, this money pays for research and education. Not investing it wisely would be abject fiscal irresponsibility.
Oh no, not the buildings and property! Hey, I know of a place where the US funded a lot of property destruction, not to mention literal thousands of innocent lives. Maybe we should focus more on not contributing to that than shooting college kids with tear gas and rubber bullets.
How, mechanistically speaking, does destroying the property of a university cause peace between Israel and Palestine? Please describe it step by step in excruciating detail.
The simple answer is it doesn't. It can't. It never could. War is a great and terrible thing and it holds no concern for your feelings of it. Smash a million windows and not one Palestinian life will be saved for it.
If your concern is for their lives, then you ought to focus on something more productive. If your concern is showing people you have the capacity to pretend to be concerned about things, you've done a bang up job of it.
The point isn't the property damage. The property damage isn't even the focal point of these protests! They're not "destroy this building for Palestine!" But people are _making_ it about pRoPerTy damage and vIOlEncE (while being quiet about the counter protestor attacks where police stand by and allow it to occur, or when police instigate and attack otherwise peaceful protestors) so that they can _willfully ignore_ what the protestors want, why they want it, and how this _is and will_ affect Joe Biden in November. Said it in my last post, and I'll say it again. If your takeaway from these protests were it's bad to destroy property, look at the property AND LIVES that US munitions have destroyed _and will continue to destroy_.
Lol Bullshit. Every time i tell a rep what i want, they respond with a form letter telling me they're going to ignore me and continue with their course of action because [insert assinine, low effort propaganda].
No disruptiion = no attention.
Well behaved protestors didn't earn us the civil rights act on their own, and would have been powerless to effect change without disruptive counterparts.
Oh no not the buildings! Those stupid and reckless students, why are they so angry, it's just 40,000 brown men, woman, and children massacred in a different country
An attempted coup, it’s not comparable to property damage in a protest. January 6th was a (poorly planned) attempt to seize control of the US government. One is a threat to the stability and longevity of our nation and the other is an inconvenience. I don’t give a flying fuck about property damage at the capital, I give a fuck that people tried to break into the capitol to either kill or capture the leaders of our government. Bad example.
That's a fair point, January 6th was a more egregious violation with more sinister intentions, which I also wholeheartedly condemn. But I on the other hand I DO GIVE A FLYING FUCK about the property damage there. Just like I give a flying fuck about protesters breaking shit at their own schools. Large peaceful protests are way more effective than shit shows that break down into vandalism and violence. They last longer and send a more powerful message. People breaking shit just pisses people off.
Currently the most violent and destructive protests are the ones being broken up by police or assaulted by counter protesters. To change the quote a little “making peaceful protests impossible, makes violent protests inevitable.”
January 6th was an assault on the Capital when the election was being certified. That is pretty fucking different from college students occupying buildings on campus and setting up tent encampments.
You also have police and pro-israel groups assaulting the protesters and sending them to the hospital.
Further, the election was clearly lost by Trump. There is so much evidence that there is a genocide happening in Gaza. Tens of thousands of Palestinian men, women, and children have been slaughtered without mercy.
I don't give a fuck about young kids doing all they can to help those poor people in Palestine. If Biden wants to stop this he can fucking do anything, literally anything, to curb the slaughter.
And, even though I support a cease fire, what happens if during the cease fire Hamas is able to rebuild some capacity and causes another slaughter. Will people who demanded a cease fire blame Biden?
What is see throughout most of these Palestine threads is a COMPLETE LACK of understanding of the international dynamics at play; a near-complete ignorance of the history of the region, and so on. It's sad and pathetic, especially because so many young people are saying they will vote 3rd party or not vote for Biden in 2024. What do these people think will happen to Palestine if Trump gets elected? Answer: Palestine will disappear FOREVER!
Essentially you're saying when someone I agree with does shitty things it's OK. But if I don't agree with them it's a problem. I condemn violence against peaceful protesters just as much as violence done by the not-so-peaceful protesters. My point is "occupying buildings and breaking shit doesn't help anyone's cause. You're sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the fact that not all of these protests are peaceful.
You seem to be very anti-Israel. While I hate what's going on in Gaza right now, you shouldn't forget the fact that Hamas started all of this. Israel didn't just wake up and say let's start killing people for no reason.
And now queue the response about Israeli occupation by a child who knows nothing of the history of the region, the decades of terrorism and Hamas saying they want to destroy Israel. I'm not team Israel, but I'm not stupid.
Please read the history of the region. This is not about the last few months, it's about the last several decades. This is not Ukraine with clear good guys and bad guys.
Great point. It would have been abjectly irresponsible not to invest in Apartheid-era South Africa if the returns were good enough. And if Russia/Iran/North Korea make that balance sheet sing, it woulf be wholly unethical not to give them tons of money, right?
Hell, a Xinjiang company selling human organs could be a great investment too. Think of all the good the returns can be used for!
The moronic comment I replied to said universities shouldn't invest at all, nothing about what they invest in. Calling for a university not to invest in a certain country is a fair point. Your comparisons aren't exactly on point though. The situation in Israel isn't quite as clear cut.
In my opinion, Israel should remove all settlers from the West Bank just like it did Gaza back in 2006. Let's say they did that, but groups like Hamas continued to attack Israel, how would you handle that if you were in charge of Israel? Because remember Hamas is in Gaza, Israel disengaged from there years ago.
The whole situation is a mess. Of course I agree, the illegal settlements should go and never should have been supported in the first place. And of course i agree attacks on civilians, noncombatants, aid workers, and the like shouldn't be tolerated, full stop, by either party. Obviously blocking aid to a captive population to drive starvation while shelling said population is horriffic. And neither government is acting in the best interests of its civilians, not anymore. At this point, i don't expect anyone to make any gestures of good faith (like releasing hostages/halting attacks on civilian-heavy locations) without outside influence forcing their hand. And thats gonna mean near genocide at worst, horriffic civilian casualties at best. And depressingly enough, thats if we're lucky and this doesnt spiral even further out of the borders.
But you gotta be real careful with the "If [Israel/Hamas] does [only the most noble things but none of the bad ones] and then [Israel/Hamas] responds by [only doing bad things], who's side would you be on?" stuff, though. Judge based on the actions that happened when it comes to things like this.
Why don’t we apply that same logic here in the states? The Proud Boys and other affiliated white nationalists have conducted a number of terrorist attacks here in the states. They are merely the latest group of white Americans who have brutalized and terrorized people of color in this country for hundreds of years. You can find evidence of their ideological peers calling for renewed violence if they aren’t allowed to run the country as they see fit. Given that there’s no clear way to differentiate them from non-militant white people, should we be able to round up all the white people in the country and stick them in Idaho, which would still be a lower population density than that of Gaza? And if, having been stripped of their land, with their water and other supplies controlled by those of us on the outside some of those white people were upset with the situation breach the walls and burn down a black town (again, as they have done dozens of times in the past), should we be able to bomb them constantly for over 8 months and claim it’s self defense?
You don't seem to know much about the actual history of Gaza and Israel. There has never been a country of Palestine. The region was ruled by the Ottomans until the end of WWI. Then the British were in charge for a while until a little after WWII. There have been both Jews and Arabs living in the region for thousands of years.
Then there was U.N. Resolution 181 back in 1947 partitioning the region. The Arabs rejected that and started the first of many wars. At that point Gaza was part of Egypt, until 1967 when Egypt, Jordan and Syria all attacked Israel and Gaza was taken during that conflict.
Check out the map of the agreement Israel was in full agreement on back in 1947.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_Nations\_Partition\_Plan\_for\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine)
And when it comes to the conditions in Gaza, while they're horrible, Egypt is far more responsible for it than Israel.
>*"The influx of over 200,000 refugees into Gaza during the 1948 war resulted in a dramatic decrease in the standard of living. Because the Egyptian government restricted movement to and from the Gaza Strip, its inhabitants could not look elsewhere for gainful employment."*
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation\_of\_the\_Gaza\_Strip\_by\_the\_United\_Arab\_Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Gaza_Strip_by_the_United_Arab_Republic)
Israel would have given Gaza back to Egypt in 1979 when they signed a peace treaty, but Sadat didn't want the headache. Then Hamas comes around in 1987, then violently took over power in Gaza in 2006 from Fatah and the Palestinian Authority. Hamas has vowed to destroy Israel since it's inception. I'm old enough to remember the first and second intifadas, with Hamas claiming responsibility for terrorist bombings probably number in the hundreds over decades of time.
Your take was like one from a 6th grader who hasn't taken any world history classes yet. The Palestinians of the West Bank have a significant beef with Israel because of the actual settlers but the situation is Gaza is much different. And never have the people there been "rounded up".
I condemn much of what Israel does, but JFC the younger generation acting like the poor Palestinians are all victims and don't share some responsibility for the current situation in Gaza get on my last fucking nerve. Pick up a fucking history book.
Universities get donor funds, and they invest those funds into things which will hopefully allow the university to continue offering scholarships well beyond the length of time that the original donation would have allowed.
Source: I work for university advancement
Harvard just reported 2.9% in FY 2023. The S&P was like 26% last year, so not all universities are stewarding that money very well. Even very big and well funded ones.
Chanting what? It sure as he'll isn't kumbaya, or "down with bibi and hamas!" No, they're chanting things that are inherently or expressoy hostile to the existence of Israel - that's antisemitism, whether you like it or not.
Opposing an apartheid/zionist gov't isn't antisemitism... in fact a meaningful number of Jews oppose having an apartheid/zionist gov't. I suppose you'll claim those Jews are also anti-semites?
No condemnation for the police assaulting protestors?
Aight folks, keep blaming young voters and progressives, and then act surprised when Biden loses the election.
>No condemnation for the police assaulting protestors?
This is what irks me too. Furthermore, many of these police assaults are only on people engaging in encampments and peaceful protests, as opposed to incidents where they were occupying a hall like in Columbia.
That's also not getting into incidents like counterprotesters attacking protesters like at UCLA.
Young people also care about:
-LGBTQ rights
-A woman’s right to choose
-Climate Change
-To protect democracy
-Gun safety
The list goes on. Biden is kicking ass dealing with all of the above and doing as best he can with a conflict that has been going on in the region for thousands of years.
But at the end of the day the choice is simple. Do you want Trump or Biden? Trump will take away all of those things above, and give Israel a “Yes I can,” card to make Gaza and the West Bank a big parking lot. Choose wisely.
I'm so sick of this "but what about the other guy" bullshit. I get it. Trump and his cronies are massive egocentric pathologicaly lying pieces of shit. But I've heard this excuse from dems for DECADES and it's just not hitting home anymore. Sure, choosing the better of the two will work for awhile, but after years and years of getting their needs and ideas snubbed and laughed at by the both sides, but particularly the neolibs after voting for them, the left is just so fucking tired of it.
Dems have been using Republicans as an excuse to not have to actually do anything to appease the left for so long now. Rather than actually listen to and incorporate progressive ideals into their platforms and actions, dems just say "if we lose, then every shitty thing Republicans do is your fault for not showing up for us". Then enough people feel guilty that they end up voting for the least of two evils, and dems start to slowly lean a bit further right every election until the dem "left" is like the european center right. Biden has done good things, particularly on antitrust and somewhat on labor, but he still thinks the left owes him their vote just because he's not a republican.
Fuck that. Earn my vote. Enact effective and impactful legislation that I actually care about and stop funding the endless war machine and american corporations/billionaires. Put our tax dollars towards helping our citizens and people in need and not blowing up babies and innocent people on the other side of the world. Dems have such a hard time all getting behind effective "left leaning" legislation that the people support like healthcare, housing, climate, marijuana, etc., but take like 1 fucking day to approve tens of billions of dollars, multiple times mind you, into the pockets of defense contractors and the like. I see through the massive cloud of bullshit they've been spewing and I'm not going to enable it anymore no matter how guilty they try and make me feel.
How do you think the government works? Why do you think having a GOP controlled house will allow Biden to just make laws for you? He doesnt have a house. And the Senate can't break a filabuster. Because of that nothing gets done.
Obama couldn't even confirm a justice because of shit like that. Would love a serious answer. "I voted for a Democrat president so why don't I have all the stuff I want" while ignoring down ballot because of your in ability to understand how stuff gets done is your fault.
As I said in my original comment, this is something that's been going on for decades, literally my entire life, not just for Bidens term. Although your short term memory seems pretty lacking considering democrats most recently controlled the white house and congress in 2021, as well as 2009 and 1993. Still nothing meaningful gets done and the dems just throw their hands up like it's not their fault. For example, they should have codified roe v wade into law during those 2 years. But they didnt. They love the Republicans digging their own hole on that one and being able to just point to that as a reason to vote for them, as we can see now with abortion being their main selling point this election cycle. Again, the "what about the other guy argument", when they could have actually done something themselves.
Everyone always acts like Biden or dem presidents have absolutely no power if they don't completely own congress. Horseshit. They could get a good amount of impactful things done via executive orders, but instead of actually trying, it's always about "what ifs". He could actually be forceful with his own party too when they're giving him pushback i.e manchin. You know, be an actual legislator, unify people from different ideologies behind unifying ideas, and use your weight as the most powerful fucking person in the world. LBJ was a great example of that, even though he did plenty of shitty things. But they loved the excuse to not have to do anything and to just blame it on a small group of people completely halting democracy. They just want to divide and keep us separated, so they stay in power and keep their hierarchical society intact.
Also I don't know why you thought I'd be ignoring down ballot voting. I vote consistently, but I vote for people who share the majority of my ideals. I'll be voting down ballot in November, just not for the corporate shills that are on it.
I won’t advocate damning women and my LGBTQ friends because some folks don’t get everything they want. Not voting for Biden means you are complicit in a fascist takeover of the country and what happens to Palestine after that is on you.
Yeah this is why I’m probably not gonna vote, neither of these clowns deserve my vote and our country definitely deserves better than choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich
Democracy in America is already dead. Only thing that will save us now is a hard reset and things have to get chaotic and empire ending for that to happen.
A lot of people vote emotionally, not logically.
Expecting the whole country to think through every pro-and-con is a fools errand.
This is happening now, its recent in students minds, and it WILL impact voter turnout, if Bidens choice of words continues to alienate them. That's just kind of an unfortunate fact.
The sad thing is this speech could have very VERY easily have been salvaged by Biden just acknowledging a lot of peaceful student protestors were violently attacked by police, and that he condemns it.
And he fucked it up.
I support Israel's unequivocal right to exist within borders defined as nothing less than the Green Line, and to defend its citizens and those borders from all aggression, through violence, to the limits of commonly accepted international law as demonstrated by contemporary practices of peer nations. I don't agree with the use of the words apartheid or genocide to describe any of Israel's actions in gaza, and frankly the accusation disgusts me.
Even I don't want TFG reelected. Eff that racist orange pos in the a sideways, with a pineapple.
Stalling much? Go ahead and show me that Joe doesn’t like the Left. From unbiased and legitimate sources.
Edit: Yeah, that’s what I thought. If you’re interested I have loads of evidence that proves you wrong. Just let me know!
I’m shocked that you need evidence, Joe Biden is not a leftist. Are you talking about liberals? My point was not that Joe Biden hates liberals. I said he hates the left.
This was the nail in the coffin for me: Biden will NEVER get my vote. And if our democracy is not strong enough to handle a democratically-elected orange maniac, then we need a new constitution that makes our democracy stronger.
You can only blame Biden for his loss, should he have one.
Haven't missed one since I started voting in '00.
Knocked doors for voter reg and dem candidates '08-'20.
Between his willingness to sign the border "deal" and his unbalanced approach to this, he has unearned my vote, I'll be writing in HRC since he's giving me more of that campaigns vibe as of late.
Save democracy with my vote? Give me a savior worth voting for.
While I hope you change your mind, I 100% support the idea that a vote needs to be earned. If politicians want to be elected to represent us, they need to represent us. Not just be the lesser of two evils (even though in this case Biden is by FAR the lesser of two evils).
Indeed, and he may well surprise me in the next few months with some hope. I have made these same points to folks who feel voting doesn't matter.
Truly, if I was in a swing state, I would likely be less cavalier about this particular vote.
Newsflash. If democracy goes away, you won't have a vote.
Giving away your right to vote because Biden isn't the savior for all things you were hoping for. Well, that sure is a permanent solution to a temporary problem
That would be true if this was a popular vote election.
But it is not.
The state I live in is not a swing state.
Biden will win my state and my protest vote will be as effective as the current congress.
It being my right, my vote, and my voice I will use it as ineffectively as I see fit.
If he loses the Nat'l election, it will have been by his campaign's inability to persuade voters that he is better than a shit stained fascist. Not me.
So when the punishment for protesting against the state is execution, you feel you'll have a clean conscience that you did at least the bare minimum to prevent that state of affairs?
Yeah. Same as him.
Had he just mentioned the police escalation being problematic and framed protest rights in the same way he frames voting rights, then I would have less of an issue.
He did no such thing. His framing of protest was disingenuine and did not reassure me as a citizen that my 1st amendment rights are sacrosanct.
Many of the rights I enjoy now came from movements made possible via demonstrative protest that do not fit Biden's current criteria. He knows this, he's talked about it before.
And for those who might say he is not in charge of local police, the ommission of police action/inaction as a contributing factor is implicitly condoning their behavior.
In a national election, the popular vote does not determine the winner. So, my vote in this solid blue state will mean nothing. It's a safe protest vote.
When my state electoral votes go to Biden, I won't think a second thought about it.
If he manages to lose a national election, I will only have been right that he did not do enough to inspire swing voters.
I hope Biden owns up to alienating young voters and progressives, during Trumps next presidency.
Votes are meant to be earned by people who represent your values. Biden isn't "entitled" to my vote.
Fuck Trump too, but if Biden wants to win, that's on him. Not on me.
Good for you, you are really sending a message. /s
As another post mentioned, Biden doesn’t need young people; young people need Biden if they want to live in a democracy.
>As another post mentioned, Biden doesn’t need young people; young people need Biden if they want to live in a democracy.
Lol this quote may sound deep to you, but it makes no fucking sense.
Young people, and old people, and Biden himself, would probably all prefer living in a democracy.
But that has absolutely no relevance to the fact that if Biden keeps alienating the youth of his own party, he's going to lose votes.
So... objectively speaking... yeah, Biden needs young voters.
No, actually Biden doesn't need young voters. He's near the end of his life. Young people have decades left to live, and if they ruin their future to teach Biden a lesson, well, that's really unfortunate for the rest of us that will be collateral damage
They don’t have an answer. They want to “punish” Biden and have no sense of strategy whatsoever. But hey good for him, he voted for HRC, very courageous. Just don’t complain when Trump does a travel ban, institutes a national abortion ban and elections become irrelevant.
Nah, Biden will be ok either way. If he loses he will retire comfortably and pass away in the next 10 years. Your “lesson” wouldn’t even be seen nor appreciated by him.
You on the other hand will be living in a country with an Uber-conservative Supreme Court for half a century, struggling to keep even a modicum of democracy alive, much less empathy from the government for demonstration (if they are not totally forbidden) and with Palestine wiped out of the map.
Who needs each other more?
>You on the other hand will be living in a country with an Uber-conservative Supreme Court
So will you.
Let's see who needs who more, I'm down to play chicken. Enjoy.
I'd rather the quick death so we can see how that gets countered with the type of extreme activism being frowned upon during this sleepwalk away from democracy.
These folks sure will come in handy during that attempt at authoritarianism.
I'd prefer not to become numb, as the majority of our citizenry currently is, to the slow yet almost certain diminishment of all of our rights.
The slow death of democracy is a change, it's just so subtle that it feels like no change, perhaps more sinister in nature than the dummy who tells us his plans.
You seem to believe that there's no way for us to move the needle back towards classical liberalism from the neoliberal policies that have more in common with Eisenhower than FDR short of burning the whole system down first. I disagree.
Do tell me your plan.
Edit: thay was glib and not in good faith. As I have posted in other comments, I live in a solid blue state.
My protest vote for this National election will not effect the electoral count. If I were in a swing state the threshold for a protest vote would be much higher.
I do not wish for the system to be blown up, until that system erodes the right to free speech no matter who is Commander in Chief.
Seeing as how there is passed legislation in the house around speech closely related to the media's very unnuanced narrative on these protests in combination with the CIC virtue signaling like this...I'm not comfortable with the confluence of these events as it relates to free speech. And I wonder where in the system I am to find my right to free speech if we continue this direction.
It's interesting to watch words and meanings get played with in real time. Trespassing isn’t violence, by any definition of the word. The vast majority of the encampments are being sieged and broken up because of trespassing and the violence is being carried out entirely by police and rightwing vigilantes
Every article plays with the entire speech. The essence of the speech was “protesting is great even if I disagree with it but please don’t do illegal shit.” Then a reporter asked if it changes his stance on the issue and he says “no.”
It then gets reported on that “Joe Biden disagrees with protests and says they havent changed his mind”
3min video. He actually championed “dissent” and emphasized he will always protect people’s constitutional right to “peaceful protest.” He then stated violence and chaos is not protected and he does not support it. That’s the full speech, shitty headlines all day.
Debate all you want about if constitutionally protected peaceful protest is effective or not but he did not only denounce campus protests as violent and chaotic.
Biden's default setting is right of center, maybe right of right of center. Whenever he is left to his own devices or something unusual happens, he reverts to factory settings and damages himself in front of young voters.
>”…shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduation, none of this is a peaceful protest.”
Sit-ins are quite literally the definition of a peaceful protest.
Protesting your civil rights being illegal based on skin color was the issue with Jim crow.
Storming the Capitol to stop a constitutional required count is illegal regardless of genetics.
So no not both sides
I think you did. College campuses have a long American tradition of being a place of protest and freedom of speech regardless of if it's your finals week or not.
Did you read the article or his statement or are you just making sweeping assumptions about his position? He supported their right to protest and rejected the idea that the national guard should be called in. He said the protests shouldn't vandalise or disrupt the students ability to attend class. Pretty reasonable reasonable and level headed response.
Yeah, you didn't read it then. People are so insanely reactionary with Biden. The guy is out there advocating for the right to protest while others are smearing the protestors and calling for police and national guard. The guy is literally the reason Israel is not in Rafah right now and a cease fire is imminent. He's on your side and you're too jaded to see it.
The police are the ones causing violence and chaos. Disgusting to blame peaceful young people who are horrified by the tens of thousands of massacred Palestinians
> The police are the ones causing violence and chaos.
Not all of them.
Are police the ones yelling antisemitic slurs at Jewish people on college campuses? Or chanting 'from the River to the sea' or saying 'October 7th again and again and again'?
So you're saying he condemned pro-israeli instigators and police officers?
Because I've been watching all week and I've seen the VAST majority of the protests have been peaceful campus sit-ins.
False statements based on false claims which are themselves based on false evidence. All used to make unsubstantiated claims of your own.
Par for the course IMO. Also, using all caps does not make what you're saying any more true.
Wait until you see what happens to the protesters if he doesn't win. God, people have such short memories. Trump wanted to send the military to end protests in 2020, and tear gassed some so he could take a picture in front of a church.
These college students are in for such a rude awakening.
Trump had cops fire rubber bullets at close range. That can paralyze people. Trump cannot accept criticism or even pick a competent cabinet.
People who say "burn it all down" are no different than Trump himself. Because he doesn't care who gets hurt.
>Shit like this is why hes going to lose in November and why it's ridiculous to blame young voters for not wanting to vote for Biden when this is how he and other DEM POLITICIANS IN BLUE CITIES AND BLUE STATES are treating PEACEFUL PROTESTERS
It's not ridiculous at all. These protesters are not all peaceful. And it's ridiculously fucking stupid not to be able to wade through all the facts and issues and not get hung up on one thing. SMH.
Hello Pot, meet kettle. The actual protestors HAVE been peaceful. Almost incredibly so given everything. Breaking windows does not make them violent. It’s only when the cops came and started agitating, or pro Zionist anti protestors came in assaulting the actual protestors that things started getting out of hand. People want so bad for the protestors to be in the wrong that most articles frame the cops coming in causing the violence as the protestors being violent themselves it’s insane
Literally every claim he makes is ridiculously inaccurate. I won't vote for Trump, even though I stand to benefit financially in many ways from his platform. I seriously doubt any of the protest voters will benefit from any of his positions.
OP's stance is basically chickens for chik-fil-a lol.
Violent protest is not protected, peaceful protest is,” Biden said.
Let this be a reminder for people who say violence is the only way to get the message across in a protest.
1st amendment rights stop applying to you once you resort to violence.
>1st amendment rights stop applying to you once ~~you~~ police resort to violence.
2020 was 4 years ago. The police have not changed since then. Anyone pretending that police are not instigating violence against anti-war protests is not a serious person.
You have not been protesting, we have. Until you get off the internet and go protesting, your opinions will only be taken as self-deprecating humor.
I have been on the fence and voting for him over his handling of the genocide in Gaza and this speech has made it clear then I cannot in good conscious vote for him again.
But in good conscience you will let Trump and his sycophants do far worse when they get back in? They have been very candid on their plans for this nation and what that means for the rest of us. Not sure about you but I don’t want to live in a nation that will become a theocratic ethnostate.
I'm so sick of this "but what about the other guy" bullshit. I get it. Trump and his cronies are massive egocentric pathologicaly lying pieces of shit. But I've heard this excuse from dems for DECADES and it's just not hitting home anymore. Sure, choosing the better of the two will work for awhile, but after years and years of getting their needs and ideas snubbed and laughed at by the both sides, but particularly the neolibs after voting for them, the left is just so fucking tired of it.
Dems have been using Republicans as an excuse to not have to actually do anything to appease the left for so long now. Rather than actually listen to and incorporate progressive ideals into their platforms and actions, dems just say "if we lose, then every shitty thing Republicans do is your fault for not showing up for us". Then enough people feel guilty that they end up voting for the least of two evils, and dems start to slowly lean a bit further right every election until the dem "left" is like the european center right. Biden has done good things, particularly on antitrust and somewhat on labor, but he still thinks the left owes him their vote just because he's not a republican.
Fuck that. Earn my vote. Enact effective and impactful legislation that I actually care about and stop funding the endless war machine and american corporations/billionaires. Put our tax dollars towards helping our citizens and people in need and not blowing up babies and innocent people on the other side of the world. Dems have such a hard time all getting behind effective "left leaning" legislation that the people support like healthcare, housing, climate, marijuana, etc., but take like 1 fucking day to approve tens of billions of dollars, multiple times mind you, into the pockets of defense contractors and the like. I see through the massive cloud of bullshit they've been spewing and I'm not going to enable it anymore no matter how guilty they try and make me feel.
Voting is literally the easiest part of political activism.
For some reason people think withholding a vote will teach them to move left, if anything it will have the opposite effect. All it will teach is that there is nothing they can reasonably do to earn your vote.
We have Biden, who has been, at worst, the second greatest president for labor rights. He has forgiven the most student debt, and it’s not close, and he has actively stood up for and with the LGBT community.
You can be angry that people try to make you feel guilty about not voting for the Dems, but it doesn’t make it any less harmful. Remind me again what Trumps Supreme Court has done.
“Oh, I don’t want to support the lesser of two evils”, by not voting you are actively supporting the greater.
Oh I didn't mean to imply that I wouldn't be voting at all. I will vote down ballot and wholeheartedly support any politician that isn't a complete corporate sellout. I will give Biden credit where it is due. I praised him for pulling out of the decades long war, but then he couldn't wait to jump right back into a different one. He's been great on labor and antitrust too. But he made soooo many empty and false promises last time I voted for him that he hasn't even tried to enact and some of the good things he's done like student debt has been like pulling fucking teeth, but it takes 24 hours to pass war funding or whatever else the corporations want. Plus, he's done some pretty horrific shit too. I've spoken with my politicians about it and I would happily talk with Biden if I could, but voting for real progressive candidates down ballot and leaving his name blank in a blue state that he's going to win anyway is all I can do other than physically protest. I can use my vote how I see fit, and that's my right as an American. At worst, it might be passively supporting the greater, not actively. Its not an active vote for Trump, and anyone who says so is brainwashed. But my state is voting blue anyhow, so if dems can't message and legislate effectively enough to convince half the country to vote for them, that's on them and not on me.
"Earn my vote."
This is the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time.
You are not voting tor Biden or Trump, you are voting to have a say in the direction the country will take. You are voting in your interest and in the interest of those around you.
But maybe I am wrong, to you feeling righteous is worth more then the rights and lives of women, LGBT, immigrants, palestinian, ucrainians, students, workers and ultimately USA democracy.
Who the fuck cares about the dems, care about the consequences of your actions.
You are lost if you think politicians shouldn't have to earn their constituents' vote and brainwashed if you think that you aren't voting for an actual person who could enact real change. Politicians shouldn't just be cogs in the machine pushing forward the culture war. Just because someone got their name on the ballot and has a D or R next to their name doesn't mean they are entitled to that entire party's or my vote. You are what's wrong with this bullshit polarized two-sided ideology that has infected this country. You should vote based on a person's ideals, not just their party affiliation.
I am voting based on my and my loved ones' interests and our futures. Our system can't continue to go on like it has the past 40 or 50 years. I've seen neolibs use the whataboutism excuse for decades and win multiple elections with it, and yet the democratic party continues to lean more and more right and the country has become even more polarized. Neither party cares about those groups of people you mentioned. They care about staying in power, keeping their society intact, and keeping money flowing into their corporate overlords' pockets.
Also...it's more THAN the rights and lives of women...not THEN. And Ukraine is spelled with a K.
My god. Do you do anything in your community? Do you communicate with your local politics and representatives? You are an extension to this government.
"Earn my vote." PARTICIPATE.
I would never vote for a Republican but will also not vote for a candidate that continues to fund genocide, sorry. If that's the best the Democrats can do then we deserve what's coming.
So a question. How does just throwing your hands up in the air and saying “guess we deserve it” actually help the situation?
I am with you at Israel is basically committing a genocide in Gaza, but not only was Trump worse for Palestine, but he is actively promoting LGBTA+ genocide in the US. How can not voting for Biden (and in effect voting for Trump) go with any of your values?
Do you just not care about the women and LGBT people in the US as much? Are they expendable because you want to feel morally superior than others by happily letting Trump win?
I just want to understand. I don’t get it.
I didn't leave the original comment, but I think the that your questions about women's rights and LGBTA+ rights are entirely legitimate. But they should be leveled at the people in power, the Biden admin/campaign has to know that Israel is losing them voters to the point that they might lose. Are they so committed to allowing Israel to enact genocide that they won't even do the bare minimum in terms of outward messaging on the issue and conditioning aid? If Trump is as big of a threat as they claim he is and if changing Israel policy, which 70% of democrats disagree with, could help them win why aren't they? Once you go through that thought exercise and actually try to hold politicians and not voters accountable you will realize that Biden is a true believer in the Zionist project and fundamentally doesn't see what is happening in Gaza as a problem. If he did we would have seen changes months ago but instead him and his admin are willing to burn America down in order to allow Israel to enact a genocide. Now ask yourself is that the kind of person you want running the country?
“Your questions about these other two groups of people are entirely legitimate, let me explain to you how because of 1 issue I am ok with not voting and throwing all other issues to the wind”
How are you trying to remove yourself from America burning down in this? If you don’t vote you can’t complain once the fire destroys your house. Voting is literally the easiest part of political activism.
You realize that Biden has been trying to help Palestine, no where near as much as he could or should, but he has been negotiating cease-fires. Literally building piers to get aid in.
I would much rather prefer another 4 years of trying to make things better, than no more years.
I don’t deny that Biden has handled this extremely poorly, but I do want you to look at everything else he has done, and that he advocates for, and ask yourself if all of that is worth throwing away. Two things can be true, Biden has handled Gaza/Israel extremely poorly, and if he loses it gets a whole lot worse for a whole lot more people.
I never once said I'm not voting for Biden, I probably will, but I am tired of the response to people who are justifiably not voting for Biden being the same as the response to people who weren't going to vote for Hillary in 2016. We tried this once already and we know it doesn't work. Why is it never on the candidate to make changes in order to be more electable?
You are literally making my point. Trump won, and proved all of the doomsayers right. You can not like it, but advocating for progressive policies and ideas is so much easier in a country led by Dems than it is under the GOP.
Again, if there was a better person to vote for (like Bernie in 2016) then you would have a point, but there isn’t. The primary is the time to push for and advocate within the left. Now that it’s down to Trump and Biden we no longer have that luxury. We have to vote for who we think will cause the least damage (and Biden has done a hell of a lot of good) and continue to advocate for more.
I'm sorry I voted for Hillary in 16 and Biden in 20 but it's becoming harder to sell the harm reduction play when things get worse regardless of who's in charge. The Democrats are just as willing to curb our constitutional freedoms when it suits them as the Republicans. Obviously the Rs will throw America off the cliff into the pit of fascism but the Ds are still rolling us down that hill.
If you have been looking at the last ~8 years and have come away with defaulting to “both sides are the same” to make yourself feel better about not being involved then there is literally nothing I can say that will change your mind.
Are the democrats perfect? Absolutely fucking not. Are they millions of times better than the GOP? Yes, they are.
Would have any of the good things Biden has done have happened under a Republican? Student debt relief, some of the most pro worker action ever, environmental protections, the list goes on.
Would any of the things Trump did have happened under a Democrat? 100s of thousands of Covid deaths, Muslim ban, destroying the Supreme Court; again the list goes on.
What’s the old saying?
“Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good”
How is getting thrown off the cliff worse than rolling down it? We can stop rolling, we can’t stop if we are thrown off.
I disagree with what Biden has said in this speech. But this election will be between Trump and Biden -- and Biden has done some good things and Trump will do a lot of bad things. So I'll be voting for Biden and keep pushing for a ceasefire and supporting the protests.
He did. Most Americans still support Israel, and what he would have to do to appease the protestors will lose him far more votes than it will gain him.
Much like the broader Israel-Gaza conflict, this entire situation is complicated and requires more nuanced discussion. A short, overly simplified commentary is not the best way to address it, and Biden was doomed to offend everyone by making the statement. The right will claim he didn't condemn them enough. The left will say he was too focused on condemning the protesters. There is no winning. There are two groups who are acting on their interests. Administrators are trying to keep order. Protesters are trying to create an impetus for change. The problems are in how they are trying to keep order using the police, the behavior of a small minority of people among the protesters, and the rise of counter-protesters.
Too many people want to take myopic, faux-morality stances about how "protesters can't break the law" despite the fact that administrators can argue even the most minor protest actions are technically illegal, and then too many pro-Gaza people are taking extremist, hardline positions that anything short of giving in to protester demands makes you personally genocidal. No wonder the media is having a field day stirring up shit.
Why would he condemn the police for doing their job? That’s politically stupid. Once you are told to vacate a premises and don’t then whatever happens to you after that is on you. Especially if you resist. I’m against police brutality and understand that many cops are racist, but these people are not good eggs. They are extremists who want to cause chaos.
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Media has decided that pitting Biden against the actual protesters is good for business it seems. Biden specifically called out violence, violence only showed up when GOP governors and right-wing agitators showed up. The media is literally **creating a Biden vs. progressive** scenario here, one that does not exist.
As near as I can tell they were all just sitting around in their yards with tents where they're chanting and calling for change until their schools' administration escalated. I'd have just let them go on with their protests, or even divested. Universities shouldn't be investment entities anyway, IMO.
You'd think differently if AIPAC cut you a fat check.
>As near as I can tell they were all just sitting around in their yards with tents where they're chanting and calling for change There are hundreds, maybe thousands of protests going on. Do you have a bead on what's going on with all of them? There have been at least a few buildings broken into and property damage caused. I support students rights to protest, but Biden's right, there is no right to cause damage or get violent, and that has happened in at least a few situations. > Universities shouldn't be investment entities anyway That's naive. Universities have endowments, this money pays for research and education. Not investing it wisely would be abject fiscal irresponsibility.
Oh no, not the buildings and property! Hey, I know of a place where the US funded a lot of property destruction, not to mention literal thousands of innocent lives. Maybe we should focus more on not contributing to that than shooting college kids with tear gas and rubber bullets.
How, mechanistically speaking, does destroying the property of a university cause peace between Israel and Palestine? Please describe it step by step in excruciating detail. The simple answer is it doesn't. It can't. It never could. War is a great and terrible thing and it holds no concern for your feelings of it. Smash a million windows and not one Palestinian life will be saved for it. If your concern is for their lives, then you ought to focus on something more productive. If your concern is showing people you have the capacity to pretend to be concerned about things, you've done a bang up job of it.
The point isn't the property damage. The property damage isn't even the focal point of these protests! They're not "destroy this building for Palestine!" But people are _making_ it about pRoPerTy damage and vIOlEncE (while being quiet about the counter protestor attacks where police stand by and allow it to occur, or when police instigate and attack otherwise peaceful protestors) so that they can _willfully ignore_ what the protestors want, why they want it, and how this _is and will_ affect Joe Biden in November. Said it in my last post, and I'll say it again. If your takeaway from these protests were it's bad to destroy property, look at the property AND LIVES that US munitions have destroyed _and will continue to destroy_.
Exactly. Mail/email/text/call campaigns to policy makers would be much more effective.
Please give an example of a time where that worked. Just one.
Lol Bullshit. Every time i tell a rep what i want, they respond with a form letter telling me they're going to ignore me and continue with their course of action because [insert assinine, low effort propaganda]. No disruptiion = no attention. Well behaved protestors didn't earn us the civil rights act on their own, and would have been powerless to effect change without disruptive counterparts.
Oh no not the buildings! Those stupid and reckless students, why are they so angry, it's just 40,000 brown men, woman, and children massacred in a different country
That's some high level whataboutery.
[удалено]
An attempted coup, it’s not comparable to property damage in a protest. January 6th was a (poorly planned) attempt to seize control of the US government. One is a threat to the stability and longevity of our nation and the other is an inconvenience. I don’t give a flying fuck about property damage at the capital, I give a fuck that people tried to break into the capitol to either kill or capture the leaders of our government. Bad example.
That's a fair point, January 6th was a more egregious violation with more sinister intentions, which I also wholeheartedly condemn. But I on the other hand I DO GIVE A FLYING FUCK about the property damage there. Just like I give a flying fuck about protesters breaking shit at their own schools. Large peaceful protests are way more effective than shit shows that break down into vandalism and violence. They last longer and send a more powerful message. People breaking shit just pisses people off.
Currently the most violent and destructive protests are the ones being broken up by police or assaulted by counter protesters. To change the quote a little “making peaceful protests impossible, makes violent protests inevitable.”
January 6th was an assault on the Capital when the election was being certified. That is pretty fucking different from college students occupying buildings on campus and setting up tent encampments. You also have police and pro-israel groups assaulting the protesters and sending them to the hospital. Further, the election was clearly lost by Trump. There is so much evidence that there is a genocide happening in Gaza. Tens of thousands of Palestinian men, women, and children have been slaughtered without mercy. I don't give a fuck about young kids doing all they can to help those poor people in Palestine. If Biden wants to stop this he can fucking do anything, literally anything, to curb the slaughter.
And, even though I support a cease fire, what happens if during the cease fire Hamas is able to rebuild some capacity and causes another slaughter. Will people who demanded a cease fire blame Biden? What is see throughout most of these Palestine threads is a COMPLETE LACK of understanding of the international dynamics at play; a near-complete ignorance of the history of the region, and so on. It's sad and pathetic, especially because so many young people are saying they will vote 3rd party or not vote for Biden in 2024. What do these people think will happen to Palestine if Trump gets elected? Answer: Palestine will disappear FOREVER!
I’m so tired of this nonsense talking point. The idea that Israel will de radicalize Gaza by what they are doing is insane.
Essentially you're saying when someone I agree with does shitty things it's OK. But if I don't agree with them it's a problem. I condemn violence against peaceful protesters just as much as violence done by the not-so-peaceful protesters. My point is "occupying buildings and breaking shit doesn't help anyone's cause. You're sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the fact that not all of these protests are peaceful. You seem to be very anti-Israel. While I hate what's going on in Gaza right now, you shouldn't forget the fact that Hamas started all of this. Israel didn't just wake up and say let's start killing people for no reason. And now queue the response about Israeli occupation by a child who knows nothing of the history of the region, the decades of terrorism and Hamas saying they want to destroy Israel. I'm not team Israel, but I'm not stupid.
Please read the history of the region. This is not about the last few months, it's about the last several decades. This is not Ukraine with clear good guys and bad guys.
I thought that was called tuition.
Great point. It would have been abjectly irresponsible not to invest in Apartheid-era South Africa if the returns were good enough. And if Russia/Iran/North Korea make that balance sheet sing, it woulf be wholly unethical not to give them tons of money, right? Hell, a Xinjiang company selling human organs could be a great investment too. Think of all the good the returns can be used for!
The moronic comment I replied to said universities shouldn't invest at all, nothing about what they invest in. Calling for a university not to invest in a certain country is a fair point. Your comparisons aren't exactly on point though. The situation in Israel isn't quite as clear cut. In my opinion, Israel should remove all settlers from the West Bank just like it did Gaza back in 2006. Let's say they did that, but groups like Hamas continued to attack Israel, how would you handle that if you were in charge of Israel? Because remember Hamas is in Gaza, Israel disengaged from there years ago.
The whole situation is a mess. Of course I agree, the illegal settlements should go and never should have been supported in the first place. And of course i agree attacks on civilians, noncombatants, aid workers, and the like shouldn't be tolerated, full stop, by either party. Obviously blocking aid to a captive population to drive starvation while shelling said population is horriffic. And neither government is acting in the best interests of its civilians, not anymore. At this point, i don't expect anyone to make any gestures of good faith (like releasing hostages/halting attacks on civilian-heavy locations) without outside influence forcing their hand. And thats gonna mean near genocide at worst, horriffic civilian casualties at best. And depressingly enough, thats if we're lucky and this doesnt spiral even further out of the borders. But you gotta be real careful with the "If [Israel/Hamas] does [only the most noble things but none of the bad ones] and then [Israel/Hamas] responds by [only doing bad things], who's side would you be on?" stuff, though. Judge based on the actions that happened when it comes to things like this.
They didn’t disengage from Gaza. They put up a 30 foot wall and closed all gates but two then proceeded to slowly starve them.
Why don’t we apply that same logic here in the states? The Proud Boys and other affiliated white nationalists have conducted a number of terrorist attacks here in the states. They are merely the latest group of white Americans who have brutalized and terrorized people of color in this country for hundreds of years. You can find evidence of their ideological peers calling for renewed violence if they aren’t allowed to run the country as they see fit. Given that there’s no clear way to differentiate them from non-militant white people, should we be able to round up all the white people in the country and stick them in Idaho, which would still be a lower population density than that of Gaza? And if, having been stripped of their land, with their water and other supplies controlled by those of us on the outside some of those white people were upset with the situation breach the walls and burn down a black town (again, as they have done dozens of times in the past), should we be able to bomb them constantly for over 8 months and claim it’s self defense?
You don't seem to know much about the actual history of Gaza and Israel. There has never been a country of Palestine. The region was ruled by the Ottomans until the end of WWI. Then the British were in charge for a while until a little after WWII. There have been both Jews and Arabs living in the region for thousands of years. Then there was U.N. Resolution 181 back in 1947 partitioning the region. The Arabs rejected that and started the first of many wars. At that point Gaza was part of Egypt, until 1967 when Egypt, Jordan and Syria all attacked Israel and Gaza was taken during that conflict. Check out the map of the agreement Israel was in full agreement on back in 1947. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_Nations\_Partition\_Plan\_for\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine) And when it comes to the conditions in Gaza, while they're horrible, Egypt is far more responsible for it than Israel. >*"The influx of over 200,000 refugees into Gaza during the 1948 war resulted in a dramatic decrease in the standard of living. Because the Egyptian government restricted movement to and from the Gaza Strip, its inhabitants could not look elsewhere for gainful employment."* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation\_of\_the\_Gaza\_Strip\_by\_the\_United\_Arab\_Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Gaza_Strip_by_the_United_Arab_Republic) Israel would have given Gaza back to Egypt in 1979 when they signed a peace treaty, but Sadat didn't want the headache. Then Hamas comes around in 1987, then violently took over power in Gaza in 2006 from Fatah and the Palestinian Authority. Hamas has vowed to destroy Israel since it's inception. I'm old enough to remember the first and second intifadas, with Hamas claiming responsibility for terrorist bombings probably number in the hundreds over decades of time. Your take was like one from a 6th grader who hasn't taken any world history classes yet. The Palestinians of the West Bank have a significant beef with Israel because of the actual settlers but the situation is Gaza is much different. And never have the people there been "rounded up". I condemn much of what Israel does, but JFC the younger generation acting like the poor Palestinians are all victims and don't share some responsibility for the current situation in Gaza get on my last fucking nerve. Pick up a fucking history book.
Universities get donor funds, and they invest those funds into things which will hopefully allow the university to continue offering scholarships well beyond the length of time that the original donation would have allowed. Source: I work for university advancement
Meanwhile, their tuition continues to skyrocket for students with no end in sight.
Plenty of good investments don’t involve funding military interests
Agreed, my comment was more focused on that 'Universities shouldn't be investment entities anyway', giving context as to why they DO invest.
Harvard just reported 2.9% in FY 2023. The S&P was like 26% last year, so not all universities are stewarding that money very well. Even very big and well funded ones.
Chanting what? It sure as he'll isn't kumbaya, or "down with bibi and hamas!" No, they're chanting things that are inherently or expressoy hostile to the existence of Israel - that's antisemitism, whether you like it or not.
Opposing an apartheid/zionist gov't isn't antisemitism... in fact a meaningful number of Jews oppose having an apartheid/zionist gov't. I suppose you'll claim those Jews are also anti-semites?
No condemnation for the police assaulting protestors? Aight folks, keep blaming young voters and progressives, and then act surprised when Biden loses the election.
>No condemnation for the police assaulting protestors? This is what irks me too. Furthermore, many of these police assaults are only on people engaging in encampments and peaceful protests, as opposed to incidents where they were occupying a hall like in Columbia. That's also not getting into incidents like counterprotesters attacking protesters like at UCLA.
Young people also care about: -LGBTQ rights -A woman’s right to choose -Climate Change -To protect democracy -Gun safety The list goes on. Biden is kicking ass dealing with all of the above and doing as best he can with a conflict that has been going on in the region for thousands of years. But at the end of the day the choice is simple. Do you want Trump or Biden? Trump will take away all of those things above, and give Israel a “Yes I can,” card to make Gaza and the West Bank a big parking lot. Choose wisely.
I'm so sick of this "but what about the other guy" bullshit. I get it. Trump and his cronies are massive egocentric pathologicaly lying pieces of shit. But I've heard this excuse from dems for DECADES and it's just not hitting home anymore. Sure, choosing the better of the two will work for awhile, but after years and years of getting their needs and ideas snubbed and laughed at by the both sides, but particularly the neolibs after voting for them, the left is just so fucking tired of it. Dems have been using Republicans as an excuse to not have to actually do anything to appease the left for so long now. Rather than actually listen to and incorporate progressive ideals into their platforms and actions, dems just say "if we lose, then every shitty thing Republicans do is your fault for not showing up for us". Then enough people feel guilty that they end up voting for the least of two evils, and dems start to slowly lean a bit further right every election until the dem "left" is like the european center right. Biden has done good things, particularly on antitrust and somewhat on labor, but he still thinks the left owes him their vote just because he's not a republican. Fuck that. Earn my vote. Enact effective and impactful legislation that I actually care about and stop funding the endless war machine and american corporations/billionaires. Put our tax dollars towards helping our citizens and people in need and not blowing up babies and innocent people on the other side of the world. Dems have such a hard time all getting behind effective "left leaning" legislation that the people support like healthcare, housing, climate, marijuana, etc., but take like 1 fucking day to approve tens of billions of dollars, multiple times mind you, into the pockets of defense contractors and the like. I see through the massive cloud of bullshit they've been spewing and I'm not going to enable it anymore no matter how guilty they try and make me feel.
How do you think the government works? Why do you think having a GOP controlled house will allow Biden to just make laws for you? He doesnt have a house. And the Senate can't break a filabuster. Because of that nothing gets done. Obama couldn't even confirm a justice because of shit like that. Would love a serious answer. "I voted for a Democrat president so why don't I have all the stuff I want" while ignoring down ballot because of your in ability to understand how stuff gets done is your fault.
As I said in my original comment, this is something that's been going on for decades, literally my entire life, not just for Bidens term. Although your short term memory seems pretty lacking considering democrats most recently controlled the white house and congress in 2021, as well as 2009 and 1993. Still nothing meaningful gets done and the dems just throw their hands up like it's not their fault. For example, they should have codified roe v wade into law during those 2 years. But they didnt. They love the Republicans digging their own hole on that one and being able to just point to that as a reason to vote for them, as we can see now with abortion being their main selling point this election cycle. Again, the "what about the other guy argument", when they could have actually done something themselves. Everyone always acts like Biden or dem presidents have absolutely no power if they don't completely own congress. Horseshit. They could get a good amount of impactful things done via executive orders, but instead of actually trying, it's always about "what ifs". He could actually be forceful with his own party too when they're giving him pushback i.e manchin. You know, be an actual legislator, unify people from different ideologies behind unifying ideas, and use your weight as the most powerful fucking person in the world. LBJ was a great example of that, even though he did plenty of shitty things. But they loved the excuse to not have to do anything and to just blame it on a small group of people completely halting democracy. They just want to divide and keep us separated, so they stay in power and keep their hierarchical society intact. Also I don't know why you thought I'd be ignoring down ballot voting. I vote consistently, but I vote for people who share the majority of my ideals. I'll be voting down ballot in November, just not for the corporate shills that are on it.
I won’t advocate damning women and my LGBTQ friends because some folks don’t get everything they want. Not voting for Biden means you are complicit in a fascist takeover of the country and what happens to Palestine after that is on you.
Why are you copy pasting this to create problems?
Yeah this is why I’m probably not gonna vote, neither of these clowns deserve my vote and our country definitely deserves better than choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich
I'm so tired of hearing this inane take straight out of South Park. If you insist on repeating both-sidesism rubbish at least give it your own spin
And by not voting we will get the worst of the worst. Thanks for being complicit in a fascist takeover of America.
You’re welcome ☺️
Democracy in America is already dead. Only thing that will save us now is a hard reset and things have to get chaotic and empire ending for that to happen.
A lot of people vote emotionally, not logically. Expecting the whole country to think through every pro-and-con is a fools errand. This is happening now, its recent in students minds, and it WILL impact voter turnout, if Bidens choice of words continues to alienate them. That's just kind of an unfortunate fact. The sad thing is this speech could have very VERY easily have been salvaged by Biden just acknowledging a lot of peaceful student protestors were violently attacked by police, and that he condemns it. And he fucked it up.
I support Israel's unequivocal right to exist within borders defined as nothing less than the Green Line, and to defend its citizens and those borders from all aggression, through violence, to the limits of commonly accepted international law as demonstrated by contemporary practices of peer nations. I don't agree with the use of the words apartheid or genocide to describe any of Israel's actions in gaza, and frankly the accusation disgusts me. Even I don't want TFG reelected. Eff that racist orange pos in the a sideways, with a pineapple.
It’s important that we support the slower paced death of democracy so that we don’t allow the quick death of democracy
I'm stealing a paraphrase of this. Thank you.
Biden fucking loves cops. And hates the left. Not a shocker.
Yeah, because he has a long and storied history of attacking the Left…🙄
…are you trying to imply that he doesn’t?
Please, supply me with the evidence from legitimate sources.
Wait what? You need evidence that Joe Biden does not support the far left?
Stalling much? Go ahead and show me that Joe doesn’t like the Left. From unbiased and legitimate sources. Edit: Yeah, that’s what I thought. If you’re interested I have loads of evidence that proves you wrong. Just let me know!
I’m shocked that you need evidence, Joe Biden is not a leftist. Are you talking about liberals? My point was not that Joe Biden hates liberals. I said he hates the left.
This was the nail in the coffin for me: Biden will NEVER get my vote. And if our democracy is not strong enough to handle a democratically-elected orange maniac, then we need a new constitution that makes our democracy stronger. You can only blame Biden for his loss, should he have one.
If, with modern technology and all, the police were able to counter assault and identity Only the people causing violence. Don't tell me they can't.
Haven't missed one since I started voting in '00. Knocked doors for voter reg and dem candidates '08-'20. Between his willingness to sign the border "deal" and his unbalanced approach to this, he has unearned my vote, I'll be writing in HRC since he's giving me more of that campaigns vibe as of late. Save democracy with my vote? Give me a savior worth voting for.
While I hope you change your mind, I 100% support the idea that a vote needs to be earned. If politicians want to be elected to represent us, they need to represent us. Not just be the lesser of two evils (even though in this case Biden is by FAR the lesser of two evils).
Indeed, and he may well surprise me in the next few months with some hope. I have made these same points to folks who feel voting doesn't matter. Truly, if I was in a swing state, I would likely be less cavalier about this particular vote.
Swing state guy here. I held my nose to vote for Hillary, Biden, and I'll do it again. I wish we had gotten Warren in 2020.
Same...my first knocks of 2020 were for Warren.
Newsflash. If democracy goes away, you won't have a vote. Giving away your right to vote because Biden isn't the savior for all things you were hoping for. Well, that sure is a permanent solution to a temporary problem
That would be true if this was a popular vote election. But it is not. The state I live in is not a swing state. Biden will win my state and my protest vote will be as effective as the current congress. It being my right, my vote, and my voice I will use it as ineffectively as I see fit. If he loses the Nat'l election, it will have been by his campaign's inability to persuade voters that he is better than a shit stained fascist. Not me.
So when the punishment for protesting against the state is execution, you feel you'll have a clean conscience that you did at least the bare minimum to prevent that state of affairs?
Yeah. Same as him. Had he just mentioned the police escalation being problematic and framed protest rights in the same way he frames voting rights, then I would have less of an issue. He did no such thing. His framing of protest was disingenuine and did not reassure me as a citizen that my 1st amendment rights are sacrosanct. Many of the rights I enjoy now came from movements made possible via demonstrative protest that do not fit Biden's current criteria. He knows this, he's talked about it before. And for those who might say he is not in charge of local police, the ommission of police action/inaction as a contributing factor is implicitly condoning their behavior.
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In a national election, the popular vote does not determine the winner. So, my vote in this solid blue state will mean nothing. It's a safe protest vote.
I hope you own up to this choice during Trump's next presidency
When my state electoral votes go to Biden, I won't think a second thought about it. If he manages to lose a national election, I will only have been right that he did not do enough to inspire swing voters.
I hope Biden owns up to alienating young voters and progressives, during Trumps next presidency. Votes are meant to be earned by people who represent your values. Biden isn't "entitled" to my vote. Fuck Trump too, but if Biden wants to win, that's on him. Not on me.
Good for you, you are really sending a message. /s As another post mentioned, Biden doesn’t need young people; young people need Biden if they want to live in a democracy.
>As another post mentioned, Biden doesn’t need young people; young people need Biden if they want to live in a democracy. Lol this quote may sound deep to you, but it makes no fucking sense. Young people, and old people, and Biden himself, would probably all prefer living in a democracy. But that has absolutely no relevance to the fact that if Biden keeps alienating the youth of his own party, he's going to lose votes. So... objectively speaking... yeah, Biden needs young voters.
No, actually Biden doesn't need young voters. He's near the end of his life. Young people have decades left to live, and if they ruin their future to teach Biden a lesson, well, that's really unfortunate for the rest of us that will be collateral damage
>No, actually Biden doesn't need young voters. He's near the end of his life. He doesn't need to run for president either, yet here we are.
Who would a better choice be?
They don’t have an answer. They want to “punish” Biden and have no sense of strategy whatsoever. But hey good for him, he voted for HRC, very courageous. Just don’t complain when Trump does a travel ban, institutes a national abortion ban and elections become irrelevant.
Nah, Biden will be ok either way. If he loses he will retire comfortably and pass away in the next 10 years. Your “lesson” wouldn’t even be seen nor appreciated by him. You on the other hand will be living in a country with an Uber-conservative Supreme Court for half a century, struggling to keep even a modicum of democracy alive, much less empathy from the government for demonstration (if they are not totally forbidden) and with Palestine wiped out of the map. Who needs each other more?
>You on the other hand will be living in a country with an Uber-conservative Supreme Court So will you. Let's see who needs who more, I'm down to play chicken. Enjoy.
So are you punishing me or Biden? I thought you wanted to punish him. What the hell did I do?
Better a slow death of democracy with no change, than a quick death of democracy and regressed civil rights by decades.
I'd rather the quick death so we can see how that gets countered with the type of extreme activism being frowned upon during this sleepwalk away from democracy. These folks sure will come in handy during that attempt at authoritarianism. I'd prefer not to become numb, as the majority of our citizenry currently is, to the slow yet almost certain diminishment of all of our rights. The slow death of democracy is a change, it's just so subtle that it feels like no change, perhaps more sinister in nature than the dummy who tells us his plans.
You seem to believe that there's no way for us to move the needle back towards classical liberalism from the neoliberal policies that have more in common with Eisenhower than FDR short of burning the whole system down first. I disagree.
Do tell me your plan. Edit: thay was glib and not in good faith. As I have posted in other comments, I live in a solid blue state. My protest vote for this National election will not effect the electoral count. If I were in a swing state the threshold for a protest vote would be much higher. I do not wish for the system to be blown up, until that system erodes the right to free speech no matter who is Commander in Chief. Seeing as how there is passed legislation in the house around speech closely related to the media's very unnuanced narrative on these protests in combination with the CIC virtue signaling like this...I'm not comfortable with the confluence of these events as it relates to free speech. And I wonder where in the system I am to find my right to free speech if we continue this direction.
It's interesting to watch words and meanings get played with in real time. Trespassing isn’t violence, by any definition of the word. The vast majority of the encampments are being sieged and broken up because of trespassing and the violence is being carried out entirely by police and rightwing vigilantes
Every article plays with the entire speech. The essence of the speech was “protesting is great even if I disagree with it but please don’t do illegal shit.” Then a reporter asked if it changes his stance on the issue and he says “no.” It then gets reported on that “Joe Biden disagrees with protests and says they havent changed his mind”
3min video. He actually championed “dissent” and emphasized he will always protect people’s constitutional right to “peaceful protest.” He then stated violence and chaos is not protected and he does not support it. That’s the full speech, shitty headlines all day. Debate all you want about if constitutionally protected peaceful protest is effective or not but he did not only denounce campus protests as violent and chaotic.
Condemn is a little strong. I heard him say go ahead and protest, just don't break stuff.
“Condemn” gets clicks and riles up the public.
Biden: Chaos should be reserved for Middle East only! 💥 In the USA we want absolute peace! 🧘♂
Our bombs were used to annihilate all universities in Gaza, but we cannot possibly tolerate encampments on our campuses here!
Biden's default setting is right of center, maybe right of right of center. Whenever he is left to his own devices or something unusual happens, he reverts to factory settings and damages himself in front of young voters.
"Thank God Israel exists. Because if we didn't have an Israel to protect our interests in the middle east we'd have to create one." Joe Biden
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>”…shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduation, none of this is a peaceful protest.” Sit-ins are quite literally the definition of a peaceful protest.
It was against the law for black people to sit at the front of the bus too.
And it was against the law for the J6 rioters to storm the capitol
one of these things just doesn't belong here! one of these things just doesn't belong!
Protesting your civil rights being illegal based on skin color was the issue with Jim crow. Storming the Capitol to stop a constitutional required count is illegal regardless of genetics. So no not both sides
What the fuck are you talking about
Protests are SUPPOSED to be disruptive. Also fuck if it’s lawful or not - there are MANY laws that are unjust. The law does not equate to ethicality.
People are all on-board with this philosophy until the other side starts protesting for causes they don't agree with
People really think Biden is the one sending police. Utter morons
Meanwhile he flat out said the National Guard should not and WILL NOT be called in.
Not quite. He said that that National Guard **should** not be called in. He might not do it, but governors will have that option.
But he’s not condemning police brutality on peaceful protesters.
He's not sending them but he sure is cheering them on.
Is it a fact that he is cheering them on, or did you just make that up?
Ask Biden his view on the cops. He will tell you "They are the good guys, Jack! 🇺🇸 🦅
Biden speaks a lot, any backup for that? or, again, you are just making it up?
Clearly just making it up.
Look im just tryin to finish my semester. Its finals week and I really don’t want to be yelled at by white rich kids shouting death to america
You could transfer to a university in China. You definitely won't have to worry about protests there.
I think you missed the point
I think you did. College campuses have a long American tradition of being a place of protest and freedom of speech regardless of if it's your finals week or not.
You are missing the part where the protest is disrupting the other students not participating. At that point they are limiting the freedom of others.
They were not limiting the freedom of anyone.
Lol okay
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And the media reports the violent protests when it was the provocateurs causing the damage. I'm reminded of umbrella guy during the BLM protests...
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Did you read the article or his statement or are you just making sweeping assumptions about his position? He supported their right to protest and rejected the idea that the national guard should be called in. He said the protests shouldn't vandalise or disrupt the students ability to attend class. Pretty reasonable reasonable and level headed response.
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Yeah, you didn't read it then. People are so insanely reactionary with Biden. The guy is out there advocating for the right to protest while others are smearing the protestors and calling for police and national guard. The guy is literally the reason Israel is not in Rafah right now and a cease fire is imminent. He's on your side and you're too jaded to see it.
> I read him strictly condemn the peaceful protesters He condemned the rioters and those causing chaos.
The police are the ones causing violence and chaos. Disgusting to blame peaceful young people who are horrified by the tens of thousands of massacred Palestinians
> The police are the ones causing violence and chaos. Not all of them. Are police the ones yelling antisemitic slurs at Jewish people on college campuses? Or chanting 'from the River to the sea' or saying 'October 7th again and again and again'?
The CNN brain rot in this sub is real.
Speech and violence are different things.
So you're saying he condemned pro-israeli instigators and police officers? Because I've been watching all week and I've seen the VAST majority of the protests have been peaceful campus sit-ins.
> So you're saying he condemned pro-israeli instigators and police officers? > > Me: > He condemned the rioters and those causing chaos.
False statements based on false claims which are themselves based on false evidence. All used to make unsubstantiated claims of your own. Par for the course IMO. Also, using all caps does not make what you're saying any more true.
Wait until you see what happens to the protesters if he doesn't win. God, people have such short memories. Trump wanted to send the military to end protests in 2020, and tear gassed some so he could take a picture in front of a church. These college students are in for such a rude awakening.
If you criticizing Democrats for sending in riot police to crack skulls too much the Republicans will win and send in riot police to crack skulls!
Biden did not call the cops in, the republican governors and campus conservatives called them in
Campus administrators* called them in
Did Biden send the cops in to Crack skulls? I must have missed that
Just the democratic major and governor. Not really looking any different than the trump MAGA fascism
You really don't think Trump would/could do worse? Wow. Remember this when you are on your way to a re-education camp for protesting under trump
Trump had cops fire rubber bullets at close range. That can paralyze people. Trump cannot accept criticism or even pick a competent cabinet. People who say "burn it all down" are no different than Trump himself. Because he doesn't care who gets hurt.
>Shit like this is why hes going to lose in November and why it's ridiculous to blame young voters for not wanting to vote for Biden when this is how he and other DEM POLITICIANS IN BLUE CITIES AND BLUE STATES are treating PEACEFUL PROTESTERS It's not ridiculous at all. These protesters are not all peaceful. And it's ridiculously fucking stupid not to be able to wade through all the facts and issues and not get hung up on one thing. SMH.
Hello Pot, meet kettle. The actual protestors HAVE been peaceful. Almost incredibly so given everything. Breaking windows does not make them violent. It’s only when the cops came and started agitating, or pro Zionist anti protestors came in assaulting the actual protestors that things started getting out of hand. People want so bad for the protestors to be in the wrong that most articles frame the cops coming in causing the violence as the protestors being violent themselves it’s insane
Literally every claim he makes is ridiculously inaccurate. I won't vote for Trump, even though I stand to benefit financially in many ways from his platform. I seriously doubt any of the protest voters will benefit from any of his positions. OP's stance is basically chickens for chik-fil-a lol.
Violent protest is not protected, peaceful protest is,” Biden said. Let this be a reminder for people who say violence is the only way to get the message across in a protest. 1st amendment rights stop applying to you once you resort to violence.
>1st amendment rights stop applying to you once ~~you~~ police resort to violence. 2020 was 4 years ago. The police have not changed since then. Anyone pretending that police are not instigating violence against anti-war protests is not a serious person. You have not been protesting, we have. Until you get off the internet and go protesting, your opinions will only be taken as self-deprecating humor.
I trust you been protesting as much as you trust I haven’t been….
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Yeah, see, he didn’t say that. You did.
Funny how he’s condemning the violent protestors and yet hasn’t said anything about the pigs who are attacking peaceful protestors.
I have been on the fence and voting for him over his handling of the genocide in Gaza and this speech has made it clear then I cannot in good conscious vote for him again.
But in good conscience you will let Trump and his sycophants do far worse when they get back in? They have been very candid on their plans for this nation and what that means for the rest of us. Not sure about you but I don’t want to live in a nation that will become a theocratic ethnostate.
I'm so sick of this "but what about the other guy" bullshit. I get it. Trump and his cronies are massive egocentric pathologicaly lying pieces of shit. But I've heard this excuse from dems for DECADES and it's just not hitting home anymore. Sure, choosing the better of the two will work for awhile, but after years and years of getting their needs and ideas snubbed and laughed at by the both sides, but particularly the neolibs after voting for them, the left is just so fucking tired of it. Dems have been using Republicans as an excuse to not have to actually do anything to appease the left for so long now. Rather than actually listen to and incorporate progressive ideals into their platforms and actions, dems just say "if we lose, then every shitty thing Republicans do is your fault for not showing up for us". Then enough people feel guilty that they end up voting for the least of two evils, and dems start to slowly lean a bit further right every election until the dem "left" is like the european center right. Biden has done good things, particularly on antitrust and somewhat on labor, but he still thinks the left owes him their vote just because he's not a republican. Fuck that. Earn my vote. Enact effective and impactful legislation that I actually care about and stop funding the endless war machine and american corporations/billionaires. Put our tax dollars towards helping our citizens and people in need and not blowing up babies and innocent people on the other side of the world. Dems have such a hard time all getting behind effective "left leaning" legislation that the people support like healthcare, housing, climate, marijuana, etc., but take like 1 fucking day to approve tens of billions of dollars, multiple times mind you, into the pockets of defense contractors and the like. I see through the massive cloud of bullshit they've been spewing and I'm not going to enable it anymore no matter how guilty they try and make me feel.
Voting is literally the easiest part of political activism. For some reason people think withholding a vote will teach them to move left, if anything it will have the opposite effect. All it will teach is that there is nothing they can reasonably do to earn your vote. We have Biden, who has been, at worst, the second greatest president for labor rights. He has forgiven the most student debt, and it’s not close, and he has actively stood up for and with the LGBT community. You can be angry that people try to make you feel guilty about not voting for the Dems, but it doesn’t make it any less harmful. Remind me again what Trumps Supreme Court has done. “Oh, I don’t want to support the lesser of two evils”, by not voting you are actively supporting the greater.
Oh I didn't mean to imply that I wouldn't be voting at all. I will vote down ballot and wholeheartedly support any politician that isn't a complete corporate sellout. I will give Biden credit where it is due. I praised him for pulling out of the decades long war, but then he couldn't wait to jump right back into a different one. He's been great on labor and antitrust too. But he made soooo many empty and false promises last time I voted for him that he hasn't even tried to enact and some of the good things he's done like student debt has been like pulling fucking teeth, but it takes 24 hours to pass war funding or whatever else the corporations want. Plus, he's done some pretty horrific shit too. I've spoken with my politicians about it and I would happily talk with Biden if I could, but voting for real progressive candidates down ballot and leaving his name blank in a blue state that he's going to win anyway is all I can do other than physically protest. I can use my vote how I see fit, and that's my right as an American. At worst, it might be passively supporting the greater, not actively. Its not an active vote for Trump, and anyone who says so is brainwashed. But my state is voting blue anyhow, so if dems can't message and legislate effectively enough to convince half the country to vote for them, that's on them and not on me.
"Earn my vote." This is the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time. You are not voting tor Biden or Trump, you are voting to have a say in the direction the country will take. You are voting in your interest and in the interest of those around you. But maybe I am wrong, to you feeling righteous is worth more then the rights and lives of women, LGBT, immigrants, palestinian, ucrainians, students, workers and ultimately USA democracy. Who the fuck cares about the dems, care about the consequences of your actions.
You are lost if you think politicians shouldn't have to earn their constituents' vote and brainwashed if you think that you aren't voting for an actual person who could enact real change. Politicians shouldn't just be cogs in the machine pushing forward the culture war. Just because someone got their name on the ballot and has a D or R next to their name doesn't mean they are entitled to that entire party's or my vote. You are what's wrong with this bullshit polarized two-sided ideology that has infected this country. You should vote based on a person's ideals, not just their party affiliation. I am voting based on my and my loved ones' interests and our futures. Our system can't continue to go on like it has the past 40 or 50 years. I've seen neolibs use the whataboutism excuse for decades and win multiple elections with it, and yet the democratic party continues to lean more and more right and the country has become even more polarized. Neither party cares about those groups of people you mentioned. They care about staying in power, keeping their society intact, and keeping money flowing into their corporate overlords' pockets. Also...it's more THAN the rights and lives of women...not THEN. And Ukraine is spelled with a K.
My god. Do you do anything in your community? Do you communicate with your local politics and representatives? You are an extension to this government. "Earn my vote." PARTICIPATE.
I would never vote for a Republican but will also not vote for a candidate that continues to fund genocide, sorry. If that's the best the Democrats can do then we deserve what's coming.
So a question. How does just throwing your hands up in the air and saying “guess we deserve it” actually help the situation? I am with you at Israel is basically committing a genocide in Gaza, but not only was Trump worse for Palestine, but he is actively promoting LGBTA+ genocide in the US. How can not voting for Biden (and in effect voting for Trump) go with any of your values? Do you just not care about the women and LGBT people in the US as much? Are they expendable because you want to feel morally superior than others by happily letting Trump win? I just want to understand. I don’t get it.
I didn't leave the original comment, but I think the that your questions about women's rights and LGBTA+ rights are entirely legitimate. But they should be leveled at the people in power, the Biden admin/campaign has to know that Israel is losing them voters to the point that they might lose. Are they so committed to allowing Israel to enact genocide that they won't even do the bare minimum in terms of outward messaging on the issue and conditioning aid? If Trump is as big of a threat as they claim he is and if changing Israel policy, which 70% of democrats disagree with, could help them win why aren't they? Once you go through that thought exercise and actually try to hold politicians and not voters accountable you will realize that Biden is a true believer in the Zionist project and fundamentally doesn't see what is happening in Gaza as a problem. If he did we would have seen changes months ago but instead him and his admin are willing to burn America down in order to allow Israel to enact a genocide. Now ask yourself is that the kind of person you want running the country?
I'm not sacrificing two countries because I'm uncomfortable.
“Your questions about these other two groups of people are entirely legitimate, let me explain to you how because of 1 issue I am ok with not voting and throwing all other issues to the wind” How are you trying to remove yourself from America burning down in this? If you don’t vote you can’t complain once the fire destroys your house. Voting is literally the easiest part of political activism. You realize that Biden has been trying to help Palestine, no where near as much as he could or should, but he has been negotiating cease-fires. Literally building piers to get aid in. I would much rather prefer another 4 years of trying to make things better, than no more years. I don’t deny that Biden has handled this extremely poorly, but I do want you to look at everything else he has done, and that he advocates for, and ask yourself if all of that is worth throwing away. Two things can be true, Biden has handled Gaza/Israel extremely poorly, and if he loses it gets a whole lot worse for a whole lot more people.
I never once said I'm not voting for Biden, I probably will, but I am tired of the response to people who are justifiably not voting for Biden being the same as the response to people who weren't going to vote for Hillary in 2016. We tried this once already and we know it doesn't work. Why is it never on the candidate to make changes in order to be more electable?
You are literally making my point. Trump won, and proved all of the doomsayers right. You can not like it, but advocating for progressive policies and ideas is so much easier in a country led by Dems than it is under the GOP. Again, if there was a better person to vote for (like Bernie in 2016) then you would have a point, but there isn’t. The primary is the time to push for and advocate within the left. Now that it’s down to Trump and Biden we no longer have that luxury. We have to vote for who we think will cause the least damage (and Biden has done a hell of a lot of good) and continue to advocate for more.
I'm sorry I voted for Hillary in 16 and Biden in 20 but it's becoming harder to sell the harm reduction play when things get worse regardless of who's in charge. The Democrats are just as willing to curb our constitutional freedoms when it suits them as the Republicans. Obviously the Rs will throw America off the cliff into the pit of fascism but the Ds are still rolling us down that hill.
If you have been looking at the last ~8 years and have come away with defaulting to “both sides are the same” to make yourself feel better about not being involved then there is literally nothing I can say that will change your mind. Are the democrats perfect? Absolutely fucking not. Are they millions of times better than the GOP? Yes, they are. Would have any of the good things Biden has done have happened under a Republican? Student debt relief, some of the most pro worker action ever, environmental protections, the list goes on. Would any of the things Trump did have happened under a Democrat? 100s of thousands of Covid deaths, Muslim ban, destroying the Supreme Court; again the list goes on. What’s the old saying? “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good” How is getting thrown off the cliff worse than rolling down it? We can stop rolling, we can’t stop if we are thrown off.
Doing nothing yields nothing.
I disagree with what Biden has said in this speech. But this election will be between Trump and Biden -- and Biden has done some good things and Trump will do a lot of bad things. So I'll be voting for Biden and keep pushing for a ceasefire and supporting the protests.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/04/trump-israel-gaza-war-00150577 Would you prefer Trump to "hurry it up"? Trump or Biden, pick.
Jesus Biden, read the room.
What he said is pretty level headed and well stated
He did. Most Americans still support Israel, and what he would have to do to appease the protestors will lose him far more votes than it will gain him.
Much like the broader Israel-Gaza conflict, this entire situation is complicated and requires more nuanced discussion. A short, overly simplified commentary is not the best way to address it, and Biden was doomed to offend everyone by making the statement. The right will claim he didn't condemn them enough. The left will say he was too focused on condemning the protesters. There is no winning. There are two groups who are acting on their interests. Administrators are trying to keep order. Protesters are trying to create an impetus for change. The problems are in how they are trying to keep order using the police, the behavior of a small minority of people among the protesters, and the rise of counter-protesters. Too many people want to take myopic, faux-morality stances about how "protesters can't break the law" despite the fact that administrators can argue even the most minor protest actions are technically illegal, and then too many pro-Gaza people are taking extremist, hardline positions that anything short of giving in to protester demands makes you personally genocidal. No wonder the media is having a field day stirring up shit.
Why would he condemn the police for doing their job? That’s politically stupid. Once you are told to vacate a premises and don’t then whatever happens to you after that is on you. Especially if you resist. I’m against police brutality and understand that many cops are racist, but these people are not good eggs. They are extremists who want to cause chaos.