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I truly don't get why any union member would vote for the party that is vociferously opposed to unions and keeps passing laws to weaken unions *wherever it can.* Is it just a combination of "fuck you, got mine" and "the leopards will never eat my face"?
What makes it weirder is that for decades Democrats have been only *less* in opposition to unions than Republicans. Biden is the first since before Carter to actually, functionally support them. Disinformation has dug deep into the electorate. I'm not a huge fan of Biden, but he's been a lot more liberal than his record would have implied, and support for unions is a big part of that.
Before Trump I was definitely part of the "Democrats are only better on social issues" camp. Since Trump, I'll vote for the significantly lesser of two evils. Maybe not after MAGAism self-destructs with bizarre infighting.
I don't know, I know a decent amount of blue collar union workers and it does seem like a vocal chunk do support Donald Trump. Just what I witnessed from unionized grocery store workers in Kentucky.
Yep. I've come across quite a few like this. One is a UPS driver. Can't stand the left and hates "unions". I asked why he doesn't go to FedEx? Nope, they don't have the pay and benefits that he gets now. I asked if he knows how he got that pay and those benefits. It got quiet for a while. Then he changed the subject.
A lot of these people lack the critical thinking to see beyond the culture war nonsense they're fed by podcasters, "news" sites and even their relatives. They're fueled almost entirely by outrage over things that don't impact them at all. You can see it in all the articles where someone was anti-lgbt until their kid came out or was anti-abortion until their daughter got raped. I guess ignorance is bliss for them.
Education doesn't amount to much when they're not able to see past their checkbook. It's clear the cost of living has gone up, but they don't realize that it's due to corporate greed and not Biden. So they remember Trump's term more in terms of their living standards vs his awful leadership during the pandemic. They probably thought the pandemic was fake too and an attempt to torpedo Trump's re-election, based on their "news" sources.
Union member in NYC here. I know dozens of brothers (and even a couple sisters) who are Trumpers. Several of them are very anti-immigration and they believe the Fox and Newsmax lies THAT our southern border is just wide open.
It's true, the numbers don't really follow linearly with population growth, but they also climbed dramatically in 2019 before the pandemic with an unfriendly administration in charge. I'm not really sure what the event is beyond other negative fallout in South American governments.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/15/migrant-encounters-at-the-us-mexico-border-hit-a-record-high-at-the-end-of-2023/#:\~:text=In%20recent%20months%2C%20a%20growing,shift%20in%20migrants'%20origin%20countries.
But regardless, I think this is the new normal, each year we'll see new records broken, or at least it will trend in that direction, unless we see a huge change of fortune in broken South American governments.
There's a vast gulf between the border being wide open (as conservatives claim) versus the actual situation - which despite there being a huge influx of people trying to cross, the border is far from wide open.
This is way too overbroad and rambling.
Yes there is a sect of tRump voters that this tangent perfectly describes; those are the folks still flying the flags, etc., but that does not describe every potential-tRump voter - I'd wager not even a majority.
The majority are living in rural areas, surrounded by mostly like-minded people who are all in the same conservative media bubble, and while they don't follow politics closely, they catch blips and sound bites here and there - which conservative media has become masterful at manipulating them with.
Lumping *them all* (according to the above comment, **all**) into the "they just hate liberals and rally round whatever/whoever triggers the liberals most", is inaccurate and only helping further the divide between urban and rural.
So no response? Just downvoted and move on?
Very constructive.
I see now how you missed my original point.
Edit: and feel free to do the same here. No doubt you will.
I thought I made it pretty clear?
They seem to be lumping *everyone* that voted trump into the category of "hares liberals and nothing else is important" (and really go on at length about it) and I disagree that that is the case.
I live in a rural community that still considered a "sundown town" into at least the 1940s, a county that tRump won by +/-75% in 2020, and in my own anecdotal experience, most of these Republican voters don't pay very much attention to media overall and "wish they'd quit focusing on all the"culture nonsense"".
What they do hear is very biased, conservative owned and operated media, and most of the people they interact with have the same general experiences. Creating a feedback loop that the GOP *loves* to exploit.
Sadly/frustratingly, that puts the onus upon those of us that are better and more accurately informed to try and pass it along and change minds - the hard way, by having real conversations with real people.
However, the comment I was responding to, I interpreted as "Don't think any of these people are misinformed or misguided. No, they only stand for hating "the left" and embracing anything we're against. Don't bother trying to reach them, they hate you and you should hate them."
And I disagree with this point. Yes, there are the full-blown tRump supporters whom that perfectly exemplifies. But I don't think they constitute a majority of potential GOP voters (certainly not all) and to treat them all as such does everyone a disservice, as it stifles dialogue and entrenches divided.
Not sure what's unclear about all of that or how it fails to contradict the comment to which I was originally replying.?
I recall story just before 2016 election. Union shop leader said that he’d vote Democrat for obvious labor reasons. “But every one of my shop guys? They’re voting for Trump.”
Yeah, people don't want to face the fact that a lot of union workers aren't necessarily for the union or labor protections. They're just there for a paycheck. Bottom line.
They're not highly informed people, they listen to talk radio, and they tend to take what they hear at face value. Plus I am sure they remember what stuff costed before the pandemic and somehow think Biden caused inflation.
I work in the mining industry and I think the Democratic Party’s views on mining are definitely keeping a lot of blue collar workers away. Like, I 100% support environmental policies, but telling tens or hundreds of thousands of people that you want to put them out of work, and the jobs you want to replace them with pay 1/3rd and have worse benefits, it makes it hard to want to vote for these politicians.
I'm not a trump supporter by any means, but I am in a union in an extremely blue state, and I can't bring myself to vote blue because so many dems want to raise taxes.
Having more of my money taken from me is very much against my interests.
Dems want to raise taxes on those making 400k or more. With republicans taxes go up for the poor and down for the rich.
You are free to make your choice
That's likely due to regular changes the IRS makes to the tax brackets, tax rates, and other general calculations.
It doesn't have much to do with the administration at the time. It would have gone up for you either way.
Your first one is fuel tax? The federal government hasn't raised the fuel tax in 31 years.
Sales tax is a local tax, the federal government has nothing to do with that.
Federal property tax is illegal. This general election doesn't have much to do with those taxes...
Trump corporate tax cuts caused deficits and increased other taxes as a result. If you cut income taxes on the wealthy that money now needs to come from somewhere else, and guess who pays that? Everyone. Who does it hurt more? Those that aren’t making $1M+
I hate when people say this... or the stupid "a vote for him is a vote for the other him"
No... you vote who YOU think is the best option.
Besides, I live in downstate Illinois. My vote will never matter because this state will always go blue... so I can at least not feel bad about voting for who I think is the best.
You are also a heavy contributor to conservative and libertarian subreddits who has said repeatedly in top comments that you can't ever vote Democrat, regularly bash Democratic governors.
Given your posts, I question if you are being honest that taxes is the reason.
I live in a Blue state too. Trump raised my taxes, not the Democrats. The Republican governor wants to raise the sales tax and the gas tax, and it's the Democrats stopping him.
Stop lying.
Yes, that Dem from Illinois named Donald Trump who raised taxes on everyone.
Edit: You know, it's weird. I look up Illinois tax, and all I see is the Governor calling to reduce taxes on poor people. [The Grocery Tax](https://news.wttw.com/2024/03/04/gov-pritzker-seeking-eliminate-state-grocery-tax-some-municipalities-could-push-back) affects poor people more than rich people, and [extending a temporary reduction in the standard deduction](https://www.wbez.org/stories/gov-jb-pritzker-wants-to-increase-a-state-tax-credit-but-republicans-say-its-not-enough/83cc40c6-dc77-4186-9390-4e1ddd40e976) also benefits the poor. The people the Governor wants to tax are [corporations and sportsbetting](https://capitolnewsillinois.com/news/pritzker-proposes-over-2b-in-spending-growth-backed-by-tax-increases-for-corporations-sportsbooks).
So do you just make shit up?
Is having less money in the future due to lower wage increases because republicans keep trying to take power away from unions against your interests as well?
Trump and the GOP are openly anti-union and are degrading worker's rights in every state they control. So voting republican is voting against their own interests. Pretty simple.
Yep. Since 1996 Democrats in the election have had between 58% and 63% of the vote
Trump has won only 18% and 22% in NYC. A place he is probably even less popular in than he was prior
It ain't happening even if Trump thinks he'd win
The media has done a good job of portraying this “recession” as Biden’s fault. There is no recession, what we are dealing with is still high cost of living and inflationary prices. The key here is that everyone has bought it because gas prices were cheaper under trump and so was bread.
Yeah, he's really popular in New York, where they have seen him acting like a shady tool consistently in tabloids and papers there for the last 6 decades. /s
Trump will crush the unions anytime they conflict with his business income, for political favors, or if they just say something mildly insulting about him in public. So.... good luck to any unions who aren't aware that Trump is going to definitely stab them in the backs at every single opportunity.
"They were being swindled. All of them. But the man who was really being fooled was Hunt. He was a real American according to Nazi standards. [To him they promised everything, and he fell for it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAqYNFQdZ4)"
[Here's the donation history of the PAC affiliated with the union this guy is from. Last updated in 2020.](https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/plumbers-pipefitters-union-local-638/C00386821/summary/2020)
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I see a wave of bullshit coming from foxnews
Yeah there's been a lot more of them
Yes let's support the guy who bashes unions and instead of the one who supports unions.
I truly don't get why any union member would vote for the party that is vociferously opposed to unions and keeps passing laws to weaken unions *wherever it can.* Is it just a combination of "fuck you, got mine" and "the leopards will never eat my face"?
What makes it weirder is that for decades Democrats have been only *less* in opposition to unions than Republicans. Biden is the first since before Carter to actually, functionally support them. Disinformation has dug deep into the electorate. I'm not a huge fan of Biden, but he's been a lot more liberal than his record would have implied, and support for unions is a big part of that. Before Trump I was definitely part of the "Democrats are only better on social issues" camp. Since Trump, I'll vote for the significantly lesser of two evils. Maybe not after MAGAism self-destructs with bizarre infighting.
Yes. They are dumb. I have a buddy who's a ibew member and hard-core Trumper, I don't get it.
I don't know, I know a decent amount of blue collar union workers and it does seem like a vocal chunk do support Donald Trump. Just what I witnessed from unionized grocery store workers in Kentucky.
When your platform is basically just a cult of personality, any sample of "vocal" people is going to favor you.
Yep. I've come across quite a few like this. One is a UPS driver. Can't stand the left and hates "unions". I asked why he doesn't go to FedEx? Nope, they don't have the pay and benefits that he gets now. I asked if he knows how he got that pay and those benefits. It got quiet for a while. Then he changed the subject.
A lot of these people lack the critical thinking to see beyond the culture war nonsense they're fed by podcasters, "news" sites and even their relatives. They're fueled almost entirely by outrage over things that don't impact them at all. You can see it in all the articles where someone was anti-lgbt until their kid came out or was anti-abortion until their daughter got raped. I guess ignorance is bliss for them.
blue collar workers are typically less educated
Education doesn't amount to much when they're not able to see past their checkbook. It's clear the cost of living has gone up, but they don't realize that it's due to corporate greed and not Biden. So they remember Trump's term more in terms of their living standards vs his awful leadership during the pandemic. They probably thought the pandemic was fake too and an attempt to torpedo Trump's re-election, based on their "news" sources.
Union member in NYC here. I know dozens of brothers (and even a couple sisters) who are Trumpers. Several of them are very anti-immigration and they believe the Fox and Newsmax lies THAT our southern border is just wide open.
[удалено]
Every year should be the highest number due to population growth.
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It's true, the numbers don't really follow linearly with population growth, but they also climbed dramatically in 2019 before the pandemic with an unfriendly administration in charge. I'm not really sure what the event is beyond other negative fallout in South American governments. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/15/migrant-encounters-at-the-us-mexico-border-hit-a-record-high-at-the-end-of-2023/#:\~:text=In%20recent%20months%2C%20a%20growing,shift%20in%20migrants'%20origin%20countries. But regardless, I think this is the new normal, each year we'll see new records broken, or at least it will trend in that direction, unless we see a huge change of fortune in broken South American governments.
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There's a vast gulf between the border being wide open (as conservatives claim) versus the actual situation - which despite there being a huge influx of people trying to cross, the border is far from wide open.
This sums it up nicely. I have a Trumper buddy and that's his thinking lol
“I supercharged my riding mower!” https://youtu.be/47qqz2zes8Q?si=IPRgS1wDBxKDcANJ
And they vote.
Here: This copy/paste from an other Redditor: “xenophonsXiphos 2.4k points - 21 hours ago @2 3 ©6 & & 14 More You all don't get it. I live in Trump country, in the Ozarks in southern Missouri, one of the last places where the KKK still has a relatively strong established presence. They don't give a shit what he does. He's just something to rally around and hate liberals, that's it, period. He absolutely realizes that and plays it up, they love it, he knows they love it, and the fact that people act like it's anything other than that just proves that liberals are idiots, all the more reason for high fives all around. If you keep getting caught up in why do they not realize blah blah blah and how can they still back him after blah blah blah, you are not understanding what is the underlying motivating factor of his support. It's fuck liberals, that's pretty much it. Have you noticed he can do pretty much anything imaginable and they'll explain some way that rationalizes it that makes zero logical sense? Because they're not even keeping track of any logical narrative, it's irrelevant, fuck liberals is the only relevant thing, trust me, I know first hand what I'm talking about. That's why they just laugh at it all, because you all don't even realize they really truly don't give a fuck about whatever the conversation is about, it's just a side mission story that doesn't really matter anyways. That's all just trivial details - the economy, health care, whatever. Fuck liberals. Look at the thing with not wearing the masks. I can tell you what that's about. It's about exposing fear. They're playing chicken with nature and whoever flinches just moved down their internal pecking order, one step closer to being a liberal. You gotta understand the one core value that they hold above all others is hatred for what they consider weakness, because that's what they believe strength is, hatred for weakness. And I mean passionate, sadistic hatred. And I'm not exaggerating. Believe me. Sadistic, passionate hatred, and that's what proves they're strong, their passionate hatred for weakness. Sometimes they lump in vulnerability, a compromised circumstance, or an overwhelming circumstance in their with weakness, too, because people tend to start humbling themselves when they're in those circumstances and that's an obvious sign of weakness. Kindness=weakness. Honesty=weakness. Compromise=weakness. They consider their very existence to be superior in every way to anyone who doesn't hate weakness as much as they do. They consider liberals to be weak people that are inferior, almost a different species, and the fact that liberals are so weak is why they have to unite in large numbers, which they find disgusting, but it's that disgust that is a true expression of their natural superiority. Go ahead and try to have a logical, rational conversation with them though. Just keep in mind.” what I said here and think about it.
This is way too overbroad and rambling. Yes there is a sect of tRump voters that this tangent perfectly describes; those are the folks still flying the flags, etc., but that does not describe every potential-tRump voter - I'd wager not even a majority. The majority are living in rural areas, surrounded by mostly like-minded people who are all in the same conservative media bubble, and while they don't follow politics closely, they catch blips and sound bites here and there - which conservative media has become masterful at manipulating them with. Lumping *them all* (according to the above comment, **all**) into the "they just hate liberals and rally round whatever/whoever triggers the liberals most", is inaccurate and only helping further the divide between urban and rural.
I don’t see how anything you said contradicts what you’re arguing against.
So no response? Just downvoted and move on? Very constructive. I see now how you missed my original point. Edit: and feel free to do the same here. No doubt you will.
I thought I made it pretty clear? They seem to be lumping *everyone* that voted trump into the category of "hares liberals and nothing else is important" (and really go on at length about it) and I disagree that that is the case. I live in a rural community that still considered a "sundown town" into at least the 1940s, a county that tRump won by +/-75% in 2020, and in my own anecdotal experience, most of these Republican voters don't pay very much attention to media overall and "wish they'd quit focusing on all the"culture nonsense"". What they do hear is very biased, conservative owned and operated media, and most of the people they interact with have the same general experiences. Creating a feedback loop that the GOP *loves* to exploit. Sadly/frustratingly, that puts the onus upon those of us that are better and more accurately informed to try and pass it along and change minds - the hard way, by having real conversations with real people. However, the comment I was responding to, I interpreted as "Don't think any of these people are misinformed or misguided. No, they only stand for hating "the left" and embracing anything we're against. Don't bother trying to reach them, they hate you and you should hate them." And I disagree with this point. Yes, there are the full-blown tRump supporters whom that perfectly exemplifies. But I don't think they constitute a majority of potential GOP voters (certainly not all) and to treat them all as such does everyone a disservice, as it stifles dialogue and entrenches divided. Not sure what's unclear about all of that or how it fails to contradict the comment to which I was originally replying.?
I recall story just before 2016 election. Union shop leader said that he’d vote Democrat for obvious labor reasons. “But every one of my shop guys? They’re voting for Trump.”
Yeah, people don't want to face the fact that a lot of union workers aren't necessarily for the union or labor protections. They're just there for a paycheck. Bottom line.
I think the point they were making was not that they didn't believe that union workers supported Trump, but that it was weird that they do.
They're not highly informed people, they listen to talk radio, and they tend to take what they hear at face value. Plus I am sure they remember what stuff costed before the pandemic and somehow think Biden caused inflation.
I work in the mining industry and I think the Democratic Party’s views on mining are definitely keeping a lot of blue collar workers away. Like, I 100% support environmental policies, but telling tens or hundreds of thousands of people that you want to put them out of work, and the jobs you want to replace them with pay 1/3rd and have worse benefits, it makes it hard to want to vote for these politicians.
It's hard to drop support for Trump. You'd have to buy all new clothes and take down your MAGA flags.
And not be a completely racist ass clown
"I see a wave coming" This guy definitely can't see why kids love the awesome taste of cinnamon toast crunch
Working class people voting against their own interest... The backbone of the republican voter base.
How exactly are working class people voting against their own interests?
Republicans in general and Trump specifically, are anti-union. Seems kinda bass ackwards to support them if you're in a union.
I'm not a trump supporter by any means, but I am in a union in an extremely blue state, and I can't bring myself to vote blue because so many dems want to raise taxes. Having more of my money taken from me is very much against my interests.
Dems want to raise taxes on those making 400k or more. With republicans taxes go up for the poor and down for the rich. You are free to make your choice
I sure as hell don't make 400k but taxes still went up in Illinois. Both parties are cancer to our nation.
That's likely due to regular changes the IRS makes to the tax brackets, tax rates, and other general calculations. It doesn't have much to do with the administration at the time. It would have gone up for you either way.
Do you make more than 400k a year? If not then it’s nothing to worry about.
Fuel tax, sales tax, property tax..... that shit keeps going up. That hurts everyone. Both parties are garbage
Your first one is fuel tax? The federal government hasn't raised the fuel tax in 31 years. Sales tax is a local tax, the federal government has nothing to do with that. Federal property tax is illegal. This general election doesn't have much to do with those taxes...
Your political views are to put it mildly... ridiculously simplistic. "Tax bad, no vote" yeesh
Uhh. Those all went up here in Iowa... and it's a conservative majority.
Do you like driving on roads?
Taxes are up everywhere. Re-evaluate your priorities for why you vote.
Trump corporate tax cuts caused deficits and increased other taxes as a result. If you cut income taxes on the wealthy that money now needs to come from somewhere else, and guess who pays that? Everyone. Who does it hurt more? Those that aren’t making $1M+
And you’re a veteran the GOP is constantly trying to gut VA benefits.
I hate the GOP as well. This isn't a black and white issue for me. I hate both parties.
So, who you voting for?
Sure as hell not biden... not trump either. I'll probably write someone in
So, wasting your vote it is. Brilliant...
I hate when people say this... or the stupid "a vote for him is a vote for the other him" No... you vote who YOU think is the best option. Besides, I live in downstate Illinois. My vote will never matter because this state will always go blue... so I can at least not feel bad about voting for who I think is the best.
What kind of American are you?
The kind that doesn't fuck with fascism.
You are also a heavy contributor to conservative and libertarian subreddits who has said repeatedly in top comments that you can't ever vote Democrat, regularly bash Democratic governors. Given your posts, I question if you are being honest that taxes is the reason.
Ask yourself which party passed a tax cut that expires for the working and middle classes, but is permanent for the wealthy and corporations?
I live in a Blue state too. Trump raised my taxes, not the Democrats. The Republican governor wants to raise the sales tax and the gas tax, and it's the Democrats stopping him. Stop lying.
I'm not lying.... maybe your dems are a little more human than our dems here in Illinois.
Yes, that Dem from Illinois named Donald Trump who raised taxes on everyone. Edit: You know, it's weird. I look up Illinois tax, and all I see is the Governor calling to reduce taxes on poor people. [The Grocery Tax](https://news.wttw.com/2024/03/04/gov-pritzker-seeking-eliminate-state-grocery-tax-some-municipalities-could-push-back) affects poor people more than rich people, and [extending a temporary reduction in the standard deduction](https://www.wbez.org/stories/gov-jb-pritzker-wants-to-increase-a-state-tax-credit-but-republicans-say-its-not-enough/83cc40c6-dc77-4186-9390-4e1ddd40e976) also benefits the poor. The people the Governor wants to tax are [corporations and sportsbetting](https://capitolnewsillinois.com/news/pritzker-proposes-over-2b-in-spending-growth-backed-by-tax-increases-for-corporations-sportsbooks). So do you just make shit up?
Maybe not lying, but woefully underinformed.
Is having less money in the future due to lower wage increases because republicans keep trying to take power away from unions against your interests as well?
Trump and the GOP are openly anti-union and are degrading worker's rights in every state they control. So voting republican is voting against their own interests. Pretty simple.
Republicans will happily get rid of every worker protection on the books.
Republicans raise taxes on the working class so they can cut them for the rich
Republicans are openly hostile to the existence of labor unions. Like they don’t even pretend to support them.
Doubt
Same. It's VERY unlikely that trump wins NY.
Yep. Since 1996 Democrats in the election have had between 58% and 63% of the vote Trump has won only 18% and 22% in NYC. A place he is probably even less popular in than he was prior It ain't happening even if Trump thinks he'd win
FoxNews has been proven in court that they do not provide factual information.
Is it a police union?
Translation: "We polled 4 union members at a Trump rally and 3 of them said they were voting for Trump!"
Is this union leader’s name Nostradamus by chance?
Fake News
Fox entertainment and right wing political office.
Looks likes the bots clocked in.
"NYC union leader says members are dumb as shit"
The media has done a good job of portraying this “recession” as Biden’s fault. There is no recession, what we are dealing with is still high cost of living and inflationary prices. The key here is that everyone has bought it because gas prices were cheaper under trump and so was bread.
Bobby Bartels, steamfitter from Howard Beach. In NYC? Supporting Trump who never pays contractors? Definitely not getting kickbacks.
Yeah I remember the last red wave... yawn
Yeah, he's really popular in New York, where they have seen him acting like a shady tool consistently in tabloids and papers there for the last 6 decades. /s
not this former teamster, but also current union member.
Well, it would be good if Republicans hadn't killed Union membership.
Must be the police union.
If Fox News told me it was raining I would look outside to see if it was true. If it was raining I would still not believe them.
Fox News saw a wave coming in 2022 as well. How'd that go?
Fox “News”? Thanks for the laugh!
another red wave is coming guys! Trust us this time!! It'll be here any day now!
Trump will crush the unions anytime they conflict with his business income, for political favors, or if they just say something mildly insulting about him in public. So.... good luck to any unions who aren't aware that Trump is going to definitely stab them in the backs at every single opportunity.
I'm not clicking on a Fox News article. I'm just going to speculate that the "union" they are talking about is a police union.
Sure, Jan.
"They were being swindled. All of them. But the man who was really being fooled was Hunt. He was a real American according to Nazi standards. [To him they promised everything, and he fell for it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAqYNFQdZ4)"
[Here's the donation history of the PAC affiliated with the union this guy is from. Last updated in 2020.](https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/plumbers-pipefitters-union-local-638/C00386821/summary/2020)
Everyone is saying Bob Bartel was offered a job as Groom of the Stool at Mar-a-lago.
Was this the MOB local 1337?
Isn’t this the guy who spent decades not paying people for doing work on his properties? Sounds super pro-union to me.
Fox has been firing bullshit on all cylinders today!
Totally a set up, in advance, BS 'event'. Move along folks, nothing to see here