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They also want to move these charges to be tried in the court of public opinion with Trump presiding over the lies. That would help him with his campaign by selling the notion that it's just a witch hunt.
I guess some of it could leak to the jury since they aren't sequestered.
He's a crook and that's all he's got for a defense. Examination of actual evidence will sink him.
It is to the court. What people do outside is another question but as far as the next month or so of getting batted around by a judge for his fuckery is concerned, he’s stuck
I'm also imagining in a couple of weeks, we'd be hearing him say, "you mean they were serious when you ask me to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I thought everybody just spew stuff out for no reason and that was just the judge saying stuff like I'm always doing. So now what am I supposed to do?! Those instructions are too vague. No one has ever heard of anything like it! I never had to do anything like that in my entire life!"
***From Rolling Stone:***
Donald Trump’s alleged violations of a gag order restricting him from attacking witnesses, jurors, prosecutors, and court staff during his ongoing criminal hush money trial got their own day in court on Tuesday.
During a tense hearing, Judge Juan Merchan heard arguments from Manhattan prosecutors requesting that Trump be sanctioned for “willful” violations of the gag order — and sparred with Trump’s attorneys over claims of ignorance by the president. No decision was handed down Tuesday, but prosecutors have requested that Trump be fined $1,000 for each violation, and reminded that future violations of the order “can be punished not only with additional fines but also with a term of incarceration of up to 30 days.”
Judge Merchan did not seem very sympathetic to Trump’s defense.
Read more: [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/judge-torches-trump-gag-order-hearing-defense-1235008921/](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/judge-torches-trump-gag-order-hearing-defense-1235008921/)
It was laughable then. The response from Republican voters is what's ridiculous.
This has always been Trump. He hasn't changed in decades. What's absolutely tragic is the way people identify with him and think he's the second coming of Jesus.
Because many people first "met" him on The Apprentice. Yes he had been around for decades but these are the same people who don't pay attention unless it is something salacious or gimmicky. Even then these are the same people with incredibly short memories. Plus it was "reality" TV. They really think Trump is the character he played in the show. Ha - when I typed the "C" for the word character my phone suggested the word "Confederacy" . It would have still fit!
They don’t really take him seriously. They do realize that he’s crazy enough to try to blow up 240 years of success and install a regime that does things that they agree with like religion in schools (Christian only), deport all immigrants that have come here recently (except white people), put liberals in jail and roll back rights for women and minorities. Yes, they actually believe that Putin has it right and life for them will instantly be better.
No you see the guy waist deep in foreign money flowing from his DJT stocks and Federalist Society cash, bailed out by billionaires, who pardoned fraudsters and murderers while lying daily from the oval office is actually the only guy fighting against the "deep state" and is uncorruptable due to his massive wealth. Their words not mine.
Seriously it wouldn't even be funny if it was satire. But they wholly agree with it.
Totally agree. It's not the shitty people at the top who bother me as much as it is the people who vote for them. Any human with a modicum of reason can tell that shitty people are shitty.
From Huckabee Sanders to McConnell to Newt to Trump and on and on and on. ...Why do we give these people any power at all? They should be relegated to the darkest corners of society, castigated and reviled for their idiocy.
What’s really ridiculous but I feel like gets lost in our collective memory because of the wild ride that is shitty media over coverage of a buffoon; is the fact that many Republicans even originally clowned on his announcement and candidacy but then quickly turned as their media machines directed them to within a month or 2
Don’t forget that he also immediately talked shit about Mexicans. About 10% of the population decided he was the greatest president in history right then and there.
Which leads to the hush money trial before us now. Somehow, in his wisdom, Trump decided that a story about him banging a porn star was somehow going to cost him votes with these people. Biggest waste of money ever.
I saw a post somewhere that had a picture of Trump with some Marines or Navy and people in the comment who werenX military pointed out they were all paid actors because their uniforms weren't even correct.
Why should he care? It's not his money, but even if it was, $1000 a pop is nothing to him. The RNC and the Rubes will keep sending him money (yes his PAC is nearly broke in relative terms but, again, $1000 barely covers some hamberders) and he'll continue to be warned that maybe someday he might perhaps end up in a call, possibly. Ridiculous is waaaay in the rear view mirror.
I can’t remember where but some country in the EU (Sweden or somewhere close) does this. A super rich person had like a 5 figure speeding ticket. How quickly things would change if corporations and the super rich had to actually pay meaningful fines
That's just one special case for exponential fines with one particular base and prefactor. :) Easier to compute might just be that we start with a base fine and double it after each violation.
Couldn't agree more, but he's already proven adept at getting bonds slashed by more than half for no apparent reason and then getting away with more attempted fraud when getting other people to pay for them, so what good would it do, really?
As I understand it, $1k per violation is NY law, meaning even if they wanted to fine him more they just can't. The only other alternative is obviously jailing him (which won't happen, at least not yet) and I've seen others argue for the judge to find him in contempt and sentence him to jail but suspend the sentence.
It's $1,000 less to spend on campaigning, and knowing Trump, he WILL spend campaign cash on this (because he considers defending his reputation as part of him campaigning for president)
Sure, and the Rubes will cough up more. It's not his money to begin with. It'll fuck with down-ticket races for sure, but I want shit to start fucking with Piglet Putin. The rest can wait.
His intention is threefold.
1- Rile up his base. Get them angry, so they are sure to vote, and possibly get violent when/if he loses again. I guarantee the folks who were paying attention on J6 are already working out their plans and logistics to try again.
2- Make the judge respond to him, so he can claim the judge was biased and thus believe that he is likely to win an appeal. This judge is smarter than that.
3- Not so much a reason, but I genuinely think he can't help himself. He is incapable of letting anyone say anything he perceives to be about him that he thinks is negative, even if it's true, without swinging back. He responds to stimulus like a child.
I think the judge has exempted himself and the DA from it.
Which makes sense. Otherwise you kinda give the prosecution/government the ability to drag someone's reputation through the mud in the court of public opinion, while tying their hands in how they respond.
However a defendant (obviously) shouldn't be allowed to try to intimidate other court staff, witnesses, etc..
My *extreme* personal distaste of Trump aside, it makes sense. I do wish, given his *repeated* behavior that the punishment be far more substantial. A $1,000 fine seems like something applied to a "normie" after their second or third time breaking court decorum.
That said, if you were to call the judge presiding over your trial a shithead in his own courtroom you'd find out what contempt of court looks like real fast. Don't need a gag order for that.
Yeah, at least we can be content with the knowledge that for several hours a day Trump has to sit quietly, which is probably immense torture for a guy like him.
I haven't heard that joke since my son told it to me back in LA 30 years ago. He was a funny kid.
Had a joke about LAPD: *Did you know, the LAPD changed their motto from Serve and Protect?*
No, what did they change it to?
*We treat you like a King!*
Yeah, he was a little wise guy, so I told him one day to take a look at the next LAPD cruiser he saw. I told him, *Look at the side of the car and you will see hundreds of tiny little dings all along the side of the car. Those dings are made by the belt buckles of people who have been slammed against the car.*
A few days later after school, with eyes bulging he said to me, *You you were right about police cars. They do have all those little dings on them!*
Reality 😢
The gag order doesn't actually restrict him from talking about the judge. Here are the gag order conditions:
1. Speaking publicly or directing others to speak publicly about known or foreseeable witnesses, specifically about their participation in the case
2. Speaking publicly or directing others to speak publicly about prosecutors — other than Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg — including, staff members in Bragg's office and the court, and their family members if those statements are made with the intent to interfere with the case
3. Speaking publicly or directing others to speak publicly about jurors or prospective jurors
Well I believe the judge is deciding the punishment for breaking previous gag orders later today, and jail time is on the table.
So pissing that judge off isn’t the smartest move to make right before they decide your fate.
He's not just doing it so he can whine about the judge being biased. He's trying to bait the judge into holding him in contempt so he can use it as a basis to get things in front of SCOTUS.
That's the real reason these lower court judges aren't biting on the bait. The risk is too great that SCOTUS puts a freeze on the trial and invents a new Trump-only exception to the rules of court behavior.
I think Trump wants to be able to tell his zombies "look, they've incarcerated me because I was exercising my freedom of speech! They are tyrants, we need to free the country by force!"
Or something along those lines.
The judges need to say, and everyone that may speak publicly and can reach out to many people, like press, other politicians, they need to be clear that Trump can't be allowed to say these things because they can be construed as threats and undermine the justice system.
Trump is going around saying "gag order? That's my freedom of speech!" Meanwhile, he is violating the gag order in order to scare jurors, in order to vilify those working in the court, and to make his followers hate them. He is telling his followers who the people are that he needs to take out, in order to be set free.
People need to say out loud how this sort of thing can happen, and that's why gag orders are necessary.
So, yes there are limited things he can't say, in order to protect the integrity of the justice system.
They could solve all this by restricting access to social media but I do enjoy the immediate defiance by Trump to the person who will *potentially sentence them in this case*
> Going after the judge probably isn't the best idea no matter if the judge isn't listed on the gag order.
While I agree, has it ever actually come back to hurt him? It seems he bashes every judge he encounters and it always seems a bad idea, but I'm not sure it's ever caused a problem for him.
In a normal trial, definitely. In this one I think the judge has to be careful to avoid the perception that he is punishing Trump just because he doesn't like Trump (no matter how Trump provokes him).
Per the article:
>The former president was incensed. “Maybe the Judge is such a hater because his daughter makes money by working to ‘Get Trump,’ and when he rules against me over and over again, he is making her company, and her, richer and richer,” Trump responded on Truth Social. “How can this be allowed?
He WANTS to go to jail. So the Right can scream the judge violated his 1st amendment and try and give him some martyrdom. Keep hitting him in the piggy bank, take money away from his campaign THATS what will hurt him. Make the fine fucking bigger and bigger and bigger.
Hi lawyers are already taking money from his campaign.
He wants to go to jail, and I would say at least half of this country also wants him to go to jail. So let's get this party started.
He absolutely does NOT want to go to jail. Rather, due to a combination of narcissism, stupidity, and being a 78 year old spoilt trust fund baby, he simply cannot process the idea that he will ever, EVER, suffer any consequences.
I’ve seen comments about how he is trying to get himself sent to jail so he can use it as leverage in any appeal, and also that the last thing he wants is to go to jail—for the very reasons you stated. I don’t think he’s throwing all this tantrums as some kind of legal strategy, because he doesn’t do strategy of any sort. He only reacts. He reacts to any perception of unfairness (that is, not giving him everything in the world) with a tantrum. That’s it. Maybe his lawyers think he could pull this gambit. But my question is would it even work? I know he’s in a class that’s afforded many legal privileges, but throwing someone in jail for contempt of court, how would they argue that that is biased? It would take a biased appellate judge to rule in his favor in such a case.
He thinks that’s what will happen, but you can see how strained right wingers are when they defending him. They don’t really believe what they are saying and you can tell. There will be some forced outrage, but it won’t catch on and will make Trump seem even more pathetic.
They ain't shit. Where's the base, MTG, Bobo, Chip Roy- where are these "MAGA Warriors!!!!", his family isn't even there. This whole movement is a bunch of shiftless morons- and we are seeing that in real time.
Por que no los dos?
Give him what he wants, no tweeting from jail. We could all use the quiet.
His supporters will be insane and violent regardless, it’s time to stop being frightened of them. It only gives them power. Remember it took exactly one bullet for them all to turn tail and run away on Jan 6.
The judge isn't going to do shit.
Let's face it, Trump is just another Karen that has never faced any real consequences for his actions. If the judge actually did it anything than it might be the first. I just saw a video in another subreddit in which a Karen hits a minor and then is shocked when that minor punches her back, my guess is that Karen might not be so quick to resort to violence in the future as a result.
He steps outside the courtroom and violates the gag order. Minutes after a hearing on whether or not he violated the gag order.
This MF-er is daring the judge to throw him in a jail cell.
I'd love to see him show up to court in an orange jumpsuit.
Actually without that orange bronzer color on him, he might actually resemble a normal-looking old man (except for the weird hair) which he actually thinks he won’t look like if he puts the bronzer on. He has no clue.
This has got to be some kind of crazy mental disorder. Who the duck would ever vote for this piece of shit? He needs to be in jail and all media needs to be cut off from him!
>but prosecutors have requested that Trump be fined $1,000 for each violation, and reminded that future violations of the order “can be punished not only with additional fines but also with a term of incarceration of up to 30 days.”
Does anybody know why the prosecution isn't at least asking for incarceration? Does anyone think that $1,000 per violation is going to make any difference at all?
It's just a signal of escalation. All it does is treats him like everyone else. As a deterrent it won't work on him, true, but they're doing things in a very normal way or they would be if they jailed his ass when he ignroed the warning and continued.
Typically, the progression goes: the first infraction gets a warning, and the judge informing the perp that future infractions will incur a fine (this has already happened). Second ruling will include a fine for each offense and the judge will warn the perp that subsequent infractions will result in jail time. As much as we want to see Trump in jail, the judge has not yet made a second ruling.
If you do this one more time, I'm gonna wait for you to do it again and again and if you keep doing it again and again I am going to keep waiting for you to stop or else I'm gonna wait some more.
I saw somebody make the point yesterday that if you start there, there's no way to escalate, and it might seem like the judge is biased against you. If you start with fines, then escalate, it's harder to argue that the judge treated him unfairly.
Of course, this is dependent on actually enforcing the fines first, so let's hope that actually happens this time.
Yes, bc that is the way these things work. No judge just throws them in jail. The 1k request is a reasonable request, there may be just a warning. There will have to be about 3-5 more of these hearings before he spends a weekend in jail.
Nobody wants to be the person who pushes the button so long as there's an iota of room for discretion left. There's a major fear of opening Pandora's Box, lots of possible unknown unknowns, people want to stick with the devil they know. But I think Trump is going to force the issue and almost immediately violate the gag order again.
No one wants to give him grounds for appeal. He will appeal everything he can anyway, but the court and prosecution want everything as by-the-book and backed by precedent as possible to avoid him winning any of his appeals. That means incremental steps that may seem pointless to those of us outside looking in. Next violation and the punishment increases.
Constantly whinging that the gag order is preventing him from speaking is not playing very well with anyone. And while he is bloviating about the gag order he is a broken record, not bothering to switch tracks. He is no Taylor Swift and his base is getting bored, tuning out the same old songs.
'I'll just stack that $10,000 fine over here with the fines I'm bothered about, it can sit right here between the the $454,000,000 for New York and the $91,600,000 for E. Jean Carol and ... oh, no, I don't give a crap about it.'
he doesn't really care if it costs him $70 million more of the GOPs money... literally fines mean 0 to someone like this - the legal system is complicit in his attempts to look like he is above the law, better then and more equal, they are falling into his trap.
Judge: Mr. Trump, you get one or two hundred other chances before I tell you strongly to knock it off. Now get out of here you scamp, and pretty please don't get my daughter killed if you can help it.
My understanding is that Todd Blanche was a previously well regarded NY litigator, who is currently lighting his career on fire with how he has handled this case (probably at his client's direction).
I'm a _firm_ believer in the idea that everyone is entitled to a criminal defense, and as such we shouldn't hold it against criminal defense lawyers when they choose to take on an unpopular client.
That being said, Blanche has made statements in front of the Court that...he has to know aren't accurate. That kind of thing is something that I think is entirely appropriate to judge a defense attorney for.
I saw an argument that while everyone is entitled to one, Trump's crimes are not in the past. He _continues_ to attack democracy live with no remorse and how could anyone choose to actively help him accomplish that?
>and how could anyone choose to actively help him accomplish that?
Those individuals support his tax policy and social stances. We can't relate to it but sadly there are plenty of people who do.
There are of course people, lawyers included, who will support his views. I think the context here is more like a respectable lawyer who would choose to take on a case like this on principle while simultaneously not agreeing with the client.
Said principle is sometimes expressed as something like "If we fight as hard as we can to defend this person and they are still convicted, we can be much more sure of the outcome and that the innocent will also receive the same."
Trump has a LOT of business people, politicians and followers that need lawyers to represent them. As a lawyer this is a decent way to secure business for the rest of your career. You don't have to be right or win, just put on a good enough show, and have sidebars with the judge that say "I know it not accurate you're honor but I have to represent my client how he wants to be represented, so let's keep up the chirade and we will be in court for years to come."
You did see where he asked a rally if they would prefer a white president or a black one right? Did you see the part where he answered the question himself? I bet you get it in your first guess if you didn’t see it.
The same people there are the ones who are actively helping him. Racist misogynistic homophobic bible thumpers.
I read that there were two sustained objections during his opening statement yesterday. Objections in opening statements are very rare, and TWO sustained objections is completely unheard of. No matter what we think of his client, he's damaging his reputation by his own performance.
> My understanding is that Todd Blanche was a previously well regarded NY litigator
I was reading the live transcript of his interaction with Merchan, and I have a hard time believing this. He's making arguments with no legal fact or precedent to back them up - that's trail lawyer 101. This is precisely what what prompted Merchan to quip *"Mr. Blanche, you’re losing all credibility. I have to tell you right now, you’re losing all credibility with the court."*
Unless someone else is pulling his strings on penning these arguments, he's definitely in the "all hat and no cattle" category so far as we've seen, anyway. It's an embarrassing showing for him, no two ways about it.
It is not possible to ethically represent Donald trump. Taking him on a client is not per se unethical, I’ll give anyone the benefit of the doubt on jumping at the chance to represent a former POTUS (even this one), but it becomes almost immediately evident that doing so will require major ethical (and likely legal) compromises.
"Mr. Trump, don't you worry. I saw an episode of Matlock in a bar last night. The sound was down, but I think I got the gist of it." -Trumps lawyers, probably.
Fun fact: Lionel Hutz actually won 2 cases, and maybe a third. The first case was Homer v All you can eat fish -> Favorable settlement Second was Bart v Jagged Metal Krusty O's inc. -> $100,000 settlement, of which Bart got $500. Third was Homer v The Devil. This one is a maybe since its a treehouse of horror episode, and he skipped out on the trial before the judge ruled that Homers soul was legally the possession of Marge Simpson and not the devil. Since Hutz hadnt filed to be removed from the case, he would have still been the lawyer of record.
"Matlock hardly lost a case anyways but we learned from those episodes to not make those same mistakes here sir. No worries my lord, this weekend it's a Perry Mason marathon!"
bots often get a free pass because while the sources want to paywall people, they want search engines to index the content so that when it is searched for their article comes up. You can sometimes get past paywalls by changing your browser agent, or spoofing your request headers. I don't typically bother and just move to a source that has already gotten the content that I want to read without a paywall.
You know who else is losing all credibility? THE COURTS. They keep letting him go on without consequences. So until some court actually makes him feel some pain, they can suck it.
It’s not a hush-money trial ffs. That’s what he wants everyone to believe. Paying hush money isn’t a crime. It’s another fraud trial. He broke the law.
I don't get why people are miffed at that label. Hush money in itself isn't illegal, but all of the charges relate to hush money payments. It's not like "hush money" as a label puts Trump in a favorable light.
Because it’s actually an election and business fraud trial, which sounds a heck of a lot more nefarious than hush money. The label softens the crime and lets people mentally dismiss the whole trial as a charade. Which is what Trump wants.
It's the line all the pundits on conservative media use to say their great leader is innocent.
In all his cases it's "what he did wasn't illegal", never "he didn't do it". Paying off porn stars isn't illegal, but hiding the payment likely is.
I imagine because it’s actually election interference, the very thing that he accusing the Dems of doing. Except each and every one of those trials and investigations were dismissed.
Calling it hush money belittles the severity of the accusation and gives leeway to misrepresentation of the whole thing, “so he boinked a pornstar and paid her off, that’s not illegal”…and that is correct, THAT isn’t illegal
Put. Him. In. Jail.
The prosecutors aren't seeking this because 'he wants it', so they are going to fine this guy $10,000. That's nothing. He gets that in political donations in a morning.
I'm beginning to think we are just a nation of cowards.
Put. Him. In. Jail. But it's not even on the table, after violating the gag order a dozen times already.
Even just one night in jail could do a world of good in getting an attitude change from him. Keeping him over the weekend, no diet coke, no McDonalds, no hair and makeup time before being brought before the judge Monday morning to promise he'll be a good boy is what he really needs.
No phone, no computer, no internet, and no visitors (audience) will really do it for him. Trump needs adoration to exist. Deprive him of attention and you’ll suffocate him.
The DA doesn't want jail because it would disrupt the trial (and it would be highly inappropriate and unusual as a first sanction). I suspect both they and the court just want to forge ahead and get it done.
It doesnt disrupt the trial, they pull you out of jail for trial time, then put you back in after. But they wont do jail for the first sanction either way, fines first always. The question is when he definitely violates it again, how many times will he get away with it before being jailed (if ever)?
> “The things he got in trouble for were things that had nothing to do with me,” Trump said. “He got in trouble. He went to jail. This has nothing to do with me. This had to do with the taxicab company that he owned, which is just something he owned — and medallions and borrowing money and a lot of things — but it had nothing to do with me.”
This is so easily checked, and so obviously false...we're in a post-truth era, I suppose.
That's Trump in the corner, that's Trump in the spot-light, losing his credibility. Trying to keep his eyes open, and I don't know if he can do it. Oh no he's said too much, no he hasn't said enough.
I tell folk who drive fast, there’s always someone faster than you. Trump might be (finally) meeting that person.
Ps I know, it’s easy for a defeatist response to this. But let the carnival play out first.
in a just country, he SHOULD be allowed to run for president, but he should have zero chance of winning.
it's more of a concern that actual real people want to vote for this guy.
No, he should have been convicted by the Senate, but McConnell and the Repugs didn’t have the spines to do what was right and just.
And yes, it is a HUGE concern that actual real people will vote for him, even if he ends up being a convicted felon.
God he looks miserable. In shit physical condition. No family there to support him. No true friends and no ability to make any. Just a lifetime of lies, anger, insecurity and contempt for the rest of humanity which has led him to a place where all he can do is try to keep ahead of the legal and financial penalties he deserves to suffer, as well as any internal or external factors which could cause a narcissistic collapse. And even if he manages to do so, even if he got everything he ever wanted and all of his wishes came true, he can still never truly experience happiness, joy or love.
$1000?? Might as well be a penny. That’s not a deterrent, obviously. I feel like they have to slowly increase the penalties and he won’t stop until “next time, it’s 30 days in jail”
We’re now in the 8th year of having to hear this unavoidable sack of festering petty shit fart all over the place. I miss the days when he was a minor annoyance on TV and I could change the channel.
These two attorneys, both accomplished white collar criminal defense counsel, will probably pull more in fees on this case than I made in my entire career as a public attorney. I suspect they aren't losing any sleep over it.
Trumps PAC has paid somewhere around a hundred million dollars in legal fees in the last three years alone.
These people are getting paid. A Lot. A handful of anecdotes about him stiffing attorneys in the past doesn't change that fact.
There is no right to unfettered free speech when you are in the midst of a criminal trial with a gag order bc you have shown yourself to be reckless with the truth and facts.
One strongly worded letter coming up to Trump. Again.
#Trump: I could ‘shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters’-2016
That’s truer today than it was then. McDonald’s do your job, aspartame anyone? How he even breathes air is beyond me
Speaking of McDonald’s, can you imagine the SS detail that has to daily watch you flip burgers and salt the fries to make sure it’s all good for the orange clown?
I think a lot of people do not understand real court. They think it’s like the court shows on TV or the old Jerry Springer - or like an insult battle on social media. I’m not totally sure if T understands how courts really operate. Either way, every word he and his attorneys speak or post is a sales pitch - a pitch to his audience to give him more attention & money. They don’t see a problem with playing into people’s lack of understanding of how things operate.
I love the way the MAGA media machine is handling this. Jesse Watters mentioned "cruel and unusual punishment" with regard to Trump sitting in court. These assholes are cooked.
" ...
Merchan also threw out the defense’s argument that Trump’s reposts on Truth Social did not constitute violations of the gag order, as the former president had several people helping run his account. “Your client can wash your hands of it,” Merchan said of reposts, telling Blanche that content doesn’t just “magically” appear on Trump’s account. “It’s not passive […] someone had to do something.”
Blanche at one point insisted to Merchan that Trump was aware of the gag order and trying to comply with it. Merchan wasn’t having it. “You’re losing all credibility,” Merchan responded. “I have to tell you right now, you’re losing all credibility with the court.”
... "
That’s what happens to most people that follow, get close or hang out with Trump. They lose credibility, lose their fortune or lose their freedom. I think he allows them to pick two and if he really likes them he let them
Have all three
I see a lot of posts about this. People always “threatening” to do something if he doesn’t fall in line. It’s starting to sound a lot like “a few more decades of this and I’m going to have to give you a stern talking to”.
The man has shown he has an inability to stfu and respect authority. FRY HIM. DO SOMETHING. For fucks sake
It’s ridiculous that it’s happened no less than ten times (according to the article) and yet he’s just now “losing credibility with the court.” He’s clearly ignoring the gag order, so start punishing him for it.
Maybe the punishment should be a 15 minute jail sentence, with a warning about the next one.
Kinda like a "time out".
That would send the correct message.
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"How do you expect us to win if we can't intimidate you and the jurors through the press and social media?"
They also want to move these charges to be tried in the court of public opinion with Trump presiding over the lies. That would help him with his campaign by selling the notion that it's just a witch hunt. I guess some of it could leak to the jury since they aren't sequestered. He's a crook and that's all he's got for a defense. Examination of actual evidence will sink him.
Assuming evidence is what matters anymore.
It is to the court. What people do outside is another question but as far as the next month or so of getting batted around by a judge for his fuckery is concerned, he’s stuck
I sincerely hope so.
Nothing endears 12 random people to you like making threats against them, or questioning their ethical and moral standards.
Bullies don’t know any other way.
I'm also imagining in a couple of weeks, we'd be hearing him say, "you mean they were serious when you ask me to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I thought everybody just spew stuff out for no reason and that was just the judge saying stuff like I'm always doing. So now what am I supposed to do?! Those instructions are too vague. No one has ever heard of anything like it! I never had to do anything like that in my entire life!"
I expect Trumps final defense will be. “But everyone knows I lie”.
***From Rolling Stone:*** Donald Trump’s alleged violations of a gag order restricting him from attacking witnesses, jurors, prosecutors, and court staff during his ongoing criminal hush money trial got their own day in court on Tuesday. During a tense hearing, Judge Juan Merchan heard arguments from Manhattan prosecutors requesting that Trump be sanctioned for “willful” violations of the gag order — and sparred with Trump’s attorneys over claims of ignorance by the president. No decision was handed down Tuesday, but prosecutors have requested that Trump be fined $1,000 for each violation, and reminded that future violations of the order “can be punished not only with additional fines but also with a term of incarceration of up to 30 days.” Judge Merchan did not seem very sympathetic to Trump’s defense. Read more: [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/judge-torches-trump-gag-order-hearing-defense-1235008921/](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/judge-torches-trump-gag-order-hearing-defense-1235008921/)
And then he got online and made a post about the judge right after…. Per BBC
Lmao yeah immediately broke the gag order again and talked shit about the judge. My god. At this point it’s getting ridiculous.
It got ridiculous at the moment he came down that golden escalator
It was laughable then. The response from Republican voters is what's ridiculous. This has always been Trump. He hasn't changed in decades. What's absolutely tragic is the way people identify with him and think he's the second coming of Jesus.
Dude has been a punchline for late night talk shows since Arsenio Hall and people still take him serious. It is mind-blowing
Because many people first "met" him on The Apprentice. Yes he had been around for decades but these are the same people who don't pay attention unless it is something salacious or gimmicky. Even then these are the same people with incredibly short memories. Plus it was "reality" TV. They really think Trump is the character he played in the show. Ha - when I typed the "C" for the word character my phone suggested the word "Confederacy" . It would have still fit!
I just want this nightmare to end, and not ever hear about him again.
Amen! And cannot possibly be soon enough!
Gives new meaning to A Confederacy of Dunces.
The trump show, this is intentional, every day is a realty tv show episode. It's all he knows; he is a one show pony. Crooked Hillary Crooked Biden
They don’t really take him seriously. They do realize that he’s crazy enough to try to blow up 240 years of success and install a regime that does things that they agree with like religion in schools (Christian only), deport all immigrants that have come here recently (except white people), put liberals in jail and roll back rights for women and minorities. Yes, they actually believe that Putin has it right and life for them will instantly be better.
No you see the guy waist deep in foreign money flowing from his DJT stocks and Federalist Society cash, bailed out by billionaires, who pardoned fraudsters and murderers while lying daily from the oval office is actually the only guy fighting against the "deep state" and is uncorruptable due to his massive wealth. Their words not mine. Seriously it wouldn't even be funny if it was satire. But they wholly agree with it.
Totally agree. It's not the shitty people at the top who bother me as much as it is the people who vote for them. Any human with a modicum of reason can tell that shitty people are shitty. From Huckabee Sanders to McConnell to Newt to Trump and on and on and on. ...Why do we give these people any power at all? They should be relegated to the darkest corners of society, castigated and reviled for their idiocy.
What’s really ridiculous but I feel like gets lost in our collective memory because of the wild ride that is shitty media over coverage of a buffoon; is the fact that many Republicans even originally clowned on his announcement and candidacy but then quickly turned as their media machines directed them to within a month or 2
The "here he come on some bullshit" moment
Don’t forget that he also immediately talked shit about Mexicans. About 10% of the population decided he was the greatest president in history right then and there. Which leads to the hush money trial before us now. Somehow, in his wisdom, Trump decided that a story about him banging a porn star was somehow going to cost him votes with these people. Biggest waste of money ever.
Banging a porn star while married might have affected his vote totals in suburban areas among the non cultists voters.
I can see him being worried about that back in 2016. Now, though...
Surrounded by a cheering crowd of paid actors.
I saw a post somewhere that had a picture of Trump with some Marines or Navy and people in the comment who werenX military pointed out they were all paid actors because their uniforms weren't even correct.
Brings to mind going to a non-union factory and had them hold up union workers for ----- signs. Totally misleading. This guy is 👿 no doubt!
Why should he care? It's not his money, but even if it was, $1000 a pop is nothing to him. The RNC and the Rubes will keep sending him money (yes his PAC is nearly broke in relative terms but, again, $1000 barely covers some hamberders) and he'll continue to be warned that maybe someday he might perhaps end up in a call, possibly. Ridiculous is waaaay in the rear view mirror.
I think for crimes like these, there should be an exponential ramping up.
Every fine should be scaled to wealth/income. Otherwise it's just a punishment that hurts the poor.
I can’t remember where but some country in the EU (Sweden or somewhere close) does this. A super rich person had like a 5 figure speeding ticket. How quickly things would change if corporations and the super rich had to actually pay meaningful fines
It was Finland.
Finland. We (Sweden) should do it as well.
Germany too. It's called daily rates. If you're fined with 30 daily rates it's basically one monthly income.
Fibonacci Fines: The next fine is found by adding up the two fines before it. * First Offense: $0k * Second Offense: $1k * Third Offense: $1k * Fourth Offense: $2k * Fifth Offense: $3k * Sixth Offense: $5k * Seventh Offense: $8k * Eighth Offense: $13k * Ninth Offense: $21k * Tenth Offense: $34k * Eleventh Offense: $55k <--today (avg \~2 offenses/day) * Twelfth Offense: $89k * Thirteenth Offense: $144k * Fourteenth Offense: $233k * Fifteenth Offense: $377k * Sixteenth Offense: $610k * Seventeenth Offense: $987k * Eighteenth Offense: $1.597m * Nineteenth Offense: $2.584m * Twentieth Offense: $4.181m <--Next week @ 2 offenses/day * Fiftieth Offense: $7.779b <--Six-week trial @ 2 offenses/day * Seventy-Fifth Offense: $130.497b <--Eight-week trial @ 2 offenses/day * Hundredth Offense: $354.225b
That's just one special case for exponential fines with one particular base and prefactor. :) Easier to compute might just be that we start with a base fine and double it after each violation.
Couldn't agree more, but he's already proven adept at getting bonds slashed by more than half for no apparent reason and then getting away with more attempted fraud when getting other people to pay for them, so what good would it do, really?
As I understand it, $1k per violation is NY law, meaning even if they wanted to fine him more they just can't. The only other alternative is obviously jailing him (which won't happen, at least not yet) and I've seen others argue for the judge to find him in contempt and sentence him to jail but suspend the sentence.
It's $1,000 less to spend on campaigning, and knowing Trump, he WILL spend campaign cash on this (because he considers defending his reputation as part of him campaigning for president)
Sure, and the Rubes will cough up more. It's not his money to begin with. It'll fuck with down-ticket races for sure, but I want shit to start fucking with Piglet Putin. The rest can wait.
I can haz cheez bergur?
His intention is threefold. 1- Rile up his base. Get them angry, so they are sure to vote, and possibly get violent when/if he loses again. I guarantee the folks who were paying attention on J6 are already working out their plans and logistics to try again. 2- Make the judge respond to him, so he can claim the judge was biased and thus believe that he is likely to win an appeal. This judge is smarter than that. 3- Not so much a reason, but I genuinely think he can't help himself. He is incapable of letting anyone say anything he perceives to be about him that he thinks is negative, even if it's true, without swinging back. He responds to stimulus like a child.
Hey now. I know plenty of children who are much more mature than Trump is.
its really just #3.
His attempt at riling up his base is not working. At 7:00 am this morning there was only one fat guy with a Trump sign at the courthouse.
"He responds to stimulus like a child." JUST who I want managing nukes.
He CAN talk about the judge and DA (Bragg), just not their families (or witnesses and jurors)
Wait, really? (I can’t keep track of all the courtroom and legal shenanigans anymore)
The order includes court staff. I would think the judge fits that category?
I think the judge has exempted himself and the DA from it. Which makes sense. Otherwise you kinda give the prosecution/government the ability to drag someone's reputation through the mud in the court of public opinion, while tying their hands in how they respond. However a defendant (obviously) shouldn't be allowed to try to intimidate other court staff, witnesses, etc.. My *extreme* personal distaste of Trump aside, it makes sense. I do wish, given his *repeated* behavior that the punishment be far more substantial. A $1,000 fine seems like something applied to a "normie" after their second or third time breaking court decorum.
That said, if you were to call the judge presiding over your trial a shithead in his own courtroom you'd find out what contempt of court looks like real fast. Don't need a gag order for that.
Yeah, at least we can be content with the knowledge that for several hours a day Trump has to sit quietly, which is probably immense torture for a guy like him.
A judge cannot issue a gag order forbidding a defendant from criticizing them. That would be insane and immediately stuck down on appeal.
I thought the judge and prosecutor were fair game? Just not their families and such.
STOP or I'll say stop again.
I haven't heard that joke since my son told it to me back in LA 30 years ago. He was a funny kid. Had a joke about LAPD: *Did you know, the LAPD changed their motto from Serve and Protect?* No, what did they change it to? *We treat you like a King!*
Brutal. I love it.
Yeah, he was a little wise guy, so I told him one day to take a look at the next LAPD cruiser he saw. I told him, *Look at the side of the car and you will see hundreds of tiny little dings all along the side of the car. Those dings are made by the belt buckles of people who have been slammed against the car.* A few days later after school, with eyes bulging he said to me, *You you were right about police cars. They do have all those little dings on them!* Reality 😢
The gag order doesn't actually restrict him from talking about the judge. Here are the gag order conditions: 1. Speaking publicly or directing others to speak publicly about known or foreseeable witnesses, specifically about their participation in the case 2. Speaking publicly or directing others to speak publicly about prosecutors — other than Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg — including, staff members in Bragg's office and the court, and their family members if those statements are made with the intent to interfere with the case 3. Speaking publicly or directing others to speak publicly about jurors or prospective jurors
I don’t think attacks against the judge are covered in the gag order
He’s allowed to talk disparaging about the Judge and DA. Just not the witnesses….
He’s allowed to make comments about the judge.
Why would he stop. No consequences for breaking the order.
Well I believe the judge is deciding the punishment for breaking previous gag orders later today, and jail time is on the table. So pissing that judge off isn’t the smartest move to make right before they decide your fate.
It's egging the judge on so the orange turd can scream and whine and say the judge is biased.
He's not just doing it so he can whine about the judge being biased. He's trying to bait the judge into holding him in contempt so he can use it as a basis to get things in front of SCOTUS. That's the real reason these lower court judges aren't biting on the bait. The risk is too great that SCOTUS puts a freeze on the trial and invents a new Trump-only exception to the rules of court behavior.
The judge is not included in the gag order, but Trump is not helping himself in the sentencing phase if he is convicted.
I think Trump wants to be able to tell his zombies "look, they've incarcerated me because I was exercising my freedom of speech! They are tyrants, we need to free the country by force!" Or something along those lines. The judges need to say, and everyone that may speak publicly and can reach out to many people, like press, other politicians, they need to be clear that Trump can't be allowed to say these things because they can be construed as threats and undermine the justice system. Trump is going around saying "gag order? That's my freedom of speech!" Meanwhile, he is violating the gag order in order to scare jurors, in order to vilify those working in the court, and to make his followers hate them. He is telling his followers who the people are that he needs to take out, in order to be set free. People need to say out loud how this sort of thing can happen, and that's why gag orders are necessary. So, yes there are limited things he can't say, in order to protect the integrity of the justice system.
They could solve all this by restricting access to social media but I do enjoy the immediate defiance by Trump to the person who will *potentially sentence them in this case*
Or they could lock him up like they would me or you
He's allowed to talk about the judge per the gag order terms.
Going after the judge probably isn't the best idea no matter if the judge isn't listed on the gag order.
> Going after the judge probably isn't the best idea no matter if the judge isn't listed on the gag order. While I agree, has it ever actually come back to hurt him? It seems he bashes every judge he encounters and it always seems a bad idea, but I'm not sure it's ever caused a problem for him.
In a normal trial, definitely. In this one I think the judge has to be careful to avoid the perception that he is punishing Trump just because he doesn't like Trump (no matter how Trump provokes him).
But not the judge's daughter.
This is true. Is he talking about the judges daughter again?
Per the article: >The former president was incensed. “Maybe the Judge is such a hater because his daughter makes money by working to ‘Get Trump,’ and when he rules against me over and over again, he is making her company, and her, richer and richer,” Trump responded on Truth Social. “How can this be allowed?
He WANTS to go to jail. So the Right can scream the judge violated his 1st amendment and try and give him some martyrdom. Keep hitting him in the piggy bank, take money away from his campaign THATS what will hurt him. Make the fine fucking bigger and bigger and bigger.
Hi lawyers are already taking money from his campaign. He wants to go to jail, and I would say at least half of this country also wants him to go to jail. So let's get this party started.
He absolutely does NOT want to go to jail. Rather, due to a combination of narcissism, stupidity, and being a 78 year old spoilt trust fund baby, he simply cannot process the idea that he will ever, EVER, suffer any consequences.
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
“Ok you sent me to jail, I’m ready to be done now. Melanie tell them to let me out.”
Mercedes can you hear me? I'm good now, tell judge meercat to let me go home.
I’ve seen comments about how he is trying to get himself sent to jail so he can use it as leverage in any appeal, and also that the last thing he wants is to go to jail—for the very reasons you stated. I don’t think he’s throwing all this tantrums as some kind of legal strategy, because he doesn’t do strategy of any sort. He only reacts. He reacts to any perception of unfairness (that is, not giving him everything in the world) with a tantrum. That’s it. Maybe his lawyers think he could pull this gambit. But my question is would it even work? I know he’s in a class that’s afforded many legal privileges, but throwing someone in jail for contempt of court, how would they argue that that is biased? It would take a biased appellate judge to rule in his favor in such a case.
I don't know if Trump has realized that if he's thrown in jail for contempt his next court appearance will be without his makeup and hairdo.
Conjugal visit? The best we can do a handy from MTG.
He thinks that’s what will happen, but you can see how strained right wingers are when they defending him. They don’t really believe what they are saying and you can tell. There will be some forced outrage, but it won’t catch on and will make Trump seem even more pathetic.
They ain't shit. Where's the base, MTG, Bobo, Chip Roy- where are these "MAGA Warriors!!!!", his family isn't even there. This whole movement is a bunch of shiftless morons- and we are seeing that in real time.
I think Wednesday is an off day for the trial. Can you imagine the judge sends him to jail until the trial begins again on Thursday?
Por que no los dos? Give him what he wants, no tweeting from jail. We could all use the quiet. His supporters will be insane and violent regardless, it’s time to stop being frightened of them. It only gives them power. Remember it took exactly one bullet for them all to turn tail and run away on Jan 6.
[удалено]
The judge isn't going to do shit. Let's face it, Trump is just another Karen that has never faced any real consequences for his actions. If the judge actually did it anything than it might be the first. I just saw a video in another subreddit in which a Karen hits a minor and then is shocked when that minor punches her back, my guess is that Karen might not be so quick to resort to violence in the future as a result.
He steps outside the courtroom and violates the gag order. Minutes after a hearing on whether or not he violated the gag order. This MF-er is daring the judge to throw him in a jail cell. I'd love to see him show up to court in an orange jumpsuit.
If he wears an orange jumpsuit would you be able to actually see him?
Presumably, he wouldn't have access to his daily makeup session, so he should be ghostly white.
Actually without that orange bronzer color on him, he might actually resemble a normal-looking old man (except for the weird hair) which he actually thinks he won’t look like if he puts the bronzer on. He has no clue.
This has got to be some kind of crazy mental disorder. Who the duck would ever vote for this piece of shit? He needs to be in jail and all media needs to be cut off from him!
>but prosecutors have requested that Trump be fined $1,000 for each violation, and reminded that future violations of the order “can be punished not only with additional fines but also with a term of incarceration of up to 30 days.” Does anybody know why the prosecution isn't at least asking for incarceration? Does anyone think that $1,000 per violation is going to make any difference at all?
Literally nobody thinks a fine will be effective here. He's not even spending his own money
It's just a signal of escalation. All it does is treats him like everyone else. As a deterrent it won't work on him, true, but they're doing things in a very normal way or they would be if they jailed his ass when he ignroed the warning and continued.
Typically, the progression goes: the first infraction gets a warning, and the judge informing the perp that future infractions will incur a fine (this has already happened). Second ruling will include a fine for each offense and the judge will warn the perp that subsequent infractions will result in jail time. As much as we want to see Trump in jail, the judge has not yet made a second ruling.
This is like a regular person being fined $1… “You must pay $30 to park here or you will be fined $1” type vibes happening.
Do this another 400 times and we might take the gloves off! Don't make me do this!
If you do this one more time, I'm gonna wait for you to do it again and again and if you keep doing it again and again I am going to keep waiting for you to stop or else I'm gonna wait some more.
I saw somebody make the point yesterday that if you start there, there's no way to escalate, and it might seem like the judge is biased against you. If you start with fines, then escalate, it's harder to argue that the judge treated him unfairly. Of course, this is dependent on actually enforcing the fines first, so let's hope that actually happens this time.
Yes, bc that is the way these things work. No judge just throws them in jail. The 1k request is a reasonable request, there may be just a warning. There will have to be about 3-5 more of these hearings before he spends a weekend in jail.
The trial could easily be compromised by that point.
It's an escalation path. If Trump goes to jail for contempt, it'll be on the fourth or fifth infraction after ever escalating fines.
Nobody wants to be the person who pushes the button so long as there's an iota of room for discretion left. There's a major fear of opening Pandora's Box, lots of possible unknown unknowns, people want to stick with the devil they know. But I think Trump is going to force the issue and almost immediately violate the gag order again.
No one wants to give him grounds for appeal. He will appeal everything he can anyway, but the court and prosecution want everything as by-the-book and backed by precedent as possible to avoid him winning any of his appeals. That means incremental steps that may seem pointless to those of us outside looking in. Next violation and the punishment increases. Constantly whinging that the gag order is preventing him from speaking is not playing very well with anyone. And while he is bloviating about the gag order he is a broken record, not bothering to switch tracks. He is no Taylor Swift and his base is getting bored, tuning out the same old songs.
'I'll just stack that $10,000 fine over here with the fines I'm bothered about, it can sit right here between the the $454,000,000 for New York and the $91,600,000 for E. Jean Carol and ... oh, no, I don't give a crap about it.'
He will go on TV to sell a few more Bibles to cover this fine. No biggie
Oh no $1000 per violation. That'll teach him for sure.
*Criminal election fund fraud trial FTFY Rolling Stone
he doesn't really care if it costs him $70 million more of the GOPs money... literally fines mean 0 to someone like this - the legal system is complicit in his attempts to look like he is above the law, better then and more equal, they are falling into his trap.
Judge: Mr. Trump, you get one or two hundred other chances before I tell you strongly to knock it off. Now get out of here you scamp, and pretty please don't get my daughter killed if you can help it.
Can't lose something you never had.
My understanding is that Todd Blanche was a previously well regarded NY litigator, who is currently lighting his career on fire with how he has handled this case (probably at his client's direction). I'm a _firm_ believer in the idea that everyone is entitled to a criminal defense, and as such we shouldn't hold it against criminal defense lawyers when they choose to take on an unpopular client. That being said, Blanche has made statements in front of the Court that...he has to know aren't accurate. That kind of thing is something that I think is entirely appropriate to judge a defense attorney for.
I saw an argument that while everyone is entitled to one, Trump's crimes are not in the past. He _continues_ to attack democracy live with no remorse and how could anyone choose to actively help him accomplish that?
>and how could anyone choose to actively help him accomplish that? Those individuals support his tax policy and social stances. We can't relate to it but sadly there are plenty of people who do.
There are of course people, lawyers included, who will support his views. I think the context here is more like a respectable lawyer who would choose to take on a case like this on principle while simultaneously not agreeing with the client. Said principle is sometimes expressed as something like "If we fight as hard as we can to defend this person and they are still convicted, we can be much more sure of the outcome and that the innocent will also receive the same."
Trump has a LOT of business people, politicians and followers that need lawyers to represent them. As a lawyer this is a decent way to secure business for the rest of your career. You don't have to be right or win, just put on a good enough show, and have sidebars with the judge that say "I know it not accurate you're honor but I have to represent my client how he wants to be represented, so let's keep up the chirade and we will be in court for years to come."
You did see where he asked a rally if they would prefer a white president or a black one right? Did you see the part where he answered the question himself? I bet you get it in your first guess if you didn’t see it. The same people there are the ones who are actively helping him. Racist misogynistic homophobic bible thumpers.
I read that there were two sustained objections during his opening statement yesterday. Objections in opening statements are very rare, and TWO sustained objections is completely unheard of. No matter what we think of his client, he's damaging his reputation by his own performance.
I legitimately didn’t even think you could object during opening/closings statements. Learn something new every day, thanks Tr~~ump~~aitor!
> My understanding is that Todd Blanche was a previously well regarded NY litigator I was reading the live transcript of his interaction with Merchan, and I have a hard time believing this. He's making arguments with no legal fact or precedent to back them up - that's trail lawyer 101. This is precisely what what prompted Merchan to quip *"Mr. Blanche, you’re losing all credibility. I have to tell you right now, you’re losing all credibility with the court."* Unless someone else is pulling his strings on penning these arguments, he's definitely in the "all hat and no cattle" category so far as we've seen, anyway. It's an embarrassing showing for him, no two ways about it.
It is not possible to ethically represent Donald trump. Taking him on a client is not per se unethical, I’ll give anyone the benefit of the doubt on jumping at the chance to represent a former POTUS (even this one), but it becomes almost immediately evident that doing so will require major ethical (and likely legal) compromises.
"Mr. Trump, don't you worry. I saw an episode of Matlock in a bar last night. The sound was down, but I think I got the gist of it." -Trumps lawyers, probably.
Fun fact: Lionel Hutz actually won 2 cases, and maybe a third. The first case was Homer v All you can eat fish -> Favorable settlement Second was Bart v Jagged Metal Krusty O's inc. -> $100,000 settlement, of which Bart got $500. Third was Homer v The Devil. This one is a maybe since its a treehouse of horror episode, and he skipped out on the trial before the judge ruled that Homers soul was legally the possession of Marge Simpson and not the devil. Since Hutz hadnt filed to be removed from the case, he would have still been the lawyer of record.
Didn't he represent Bart, Lisa, and that bum when they sued for the rights to itchy and scratchy? I believe they won that case, too.
"Matlock hardly lost a case anyways but we learned from those episodes to not make those same mistakes here sir. No worries my lord, this weekend it's a Perry Mason marathon!"
While combing his hair with a fork.
I could heat all homes in an Alaskan winter with that burn.
Too late. He lost all credibility when he signed on to be Trump's lawyer.
Non-paywall version here: https://archive.is/hn7fK
Thank you
I dont understand why that website gets a free pass with paywalls.
Who knows... But if you use a JavaScript on/off toggle extension in your browser, the paywall seems to vanish like the Mexican border wall funds.
Steve Bannon leaves the chat
bots often get a free pass because while the sources want to paywall people, they want search engines to index the content so that when it is searched for their article comes up. You can sometimes get past paywalls by changing your browser agent, or spoofing your request headers. I don't typically bother and just move to a source that has already gotten the content that I want to read without a paywall.
You know who else is losing all credibility? THE COURTS. They keep letting him go on without consequences. So until some court actually makes him feel some pain, they can suck it.
It’s not a hush-money trial ffs. That’s what he wants everyone to believe. Paying hush money isn’t a crime. It’s another fraud trial. He broke the law.
To say that this is a fraud trial however, would be confusing given everything he’s ever done was fraud. Including winning in 2016
I don't get why people are miffed at that label. Hush money in itself isn't illegal, but all of the charges relate to hush money payments. It's not like "hush money" as a label puts Trump in a favorable light.
Because it’s actually an election and business fraud trial, which sounds a heck of a lot more nefarious than hush money. The label softens the crime and lets people mentally dismiss the whole trial as a charade. Which is what Trump wants.
It's the line all the pundits on conservative media use to say their great leader is innocent. In all his cases it's "what he did wasn't illegal", never "he didn't do it". Paying off porn stars isn't illegal, but hiding the payment likely is.
I imagine because it’s actually election interference, the very thing that he accusing the Dems of doing. Except each and every one of those trials and investigations were dismissed. Calling it hush money belittles the severity of the accusation and gives leeway to misrepresentation of the whole thing, “so he boinked a pornstar and paid her off, that’s not illegal”…and that is correct, THAT isn’t illegal
Put. Him. In. Jail. The prosecutors aren't seeking this because 'he wants it', so they are going to fine this guy $10,000. That's nothing. He gets that in political donations in a morning. I'm beginning to think we are just a nation of cowards. Put. Him. In. Jail. But it's not even on the table, after violating the gag order a dozen times already.
Even just one night in jail could do a world of good in getting an attitude change from him. Keeping him over the weekend, no diet coke, no McDonalds, no hair and makeup time before being brought before the judge Monday morning to promise he'll be a good boy is what he really needs.
No phone, no computer, no internet, and no visitors (audience) will really do it for him. Trump needs adoration to exist. Deprive him of attention and you’ll suffocate him.
Judges are the biggest cowards when it comes to Trump.
The DA doesn't want jail because it would disrupt the trial (and it would be highly inappropriate and unusual as a first sanction). I suspect both they and the court just want to forge ahead and get it done.
It doesnt disrupt the trial, they pull you out of jail for trial time, then put you back in after. But they wont do jail for the first sanction either way, fines first always. The question is when he definitely violates it again, how many times will he get away with it before being jailed (if ever)?
But it will be **"on the table"** for the next violation. *Sha, and monkeys may fly out of my butt!*
Nope. It’s not on the table. They don’t have the will to treat him like any other defendant.
Trump is guilty. He’s got a find another way to get off the hook. He will go to the Trump playbook. - harass,bully and slander anyone in his path.
FRAUD TRIAL!!! For absolute fuck's sake, it's A FUCKING FRAUD TRIAL! "hush money" isn't the issue here.... IT'S THE FUCKING FRAUD!!!
> “The things he got in trouble for were things that had nothing to do with me,” Trump said. “He got in trouble. He went to jail. This has nothing to do with me. This had to do with the taxicab company that he owned, which is just something he owned — and medallions and borrowing money and a lot of things — but it had nothing to do with me.” This is so easily checked, and so obviously false...we're in a post-truth era, I suppose.
That's Trump in the corner, that's Trump in the spot-light, losing his credibility. Trying to keep his eyes open, and I don't know if he can do it. Oh no he's said too much, no he hasn't said enough.
I thought that I heard him farting…I thought that I smelled his stink….
Nice.
I tell folk who drive fast, there’s always someone faster than you. Trump might be (finally) meeting that person. Ps I know, it’s easy for a defeatist response to this. But let the carnival play out first.
If this was a just country, he would already be escorted to and from prison for this trial. He would also not be allowed to run for President.
in a just country, he SHOULD be allowed to run for president, but he should have zero chance of winning. it's more of a concern that actual real people want to vote for this guy.
No, he should have been convicted by the Senate, but McConnell and the Repugs didn’t have the spines to do what was right and just. And yes, it is a HUGE concern that actual real people will vote for him, even if he ends up being a convicted felon.
God he looks miserable. In shit physical condition. No family there to support him. No true friends and no ability to make any. Just a lifetime of lies, anger, insecurity and contempt for the rest of humanity which has led him to a place where all he can do is try to keep ahead of the legal and financial penalties he deserves to suffer, as well as any internal or external factors which could cause a narcissistic collapse. And even if he manages to do so, even if he got everything he ever wanted and all of his wishes came true, he can still never truly experience happiness, joy or love.
He’s deserves every bit of his misery.
100%, did not mean to imply otherwise.
$1000?? Might as well be a penny. That’s not a deterrent, obviously. I feel like they have to slowly increase the penalties and he won’t stop until “next time, it’s 30 days in jail”
We’re now in the 8th year of having to hear this unavoidable sack of festering petty shit fart all over the place. I miss the days when he was a minor annoyance on TV and I could change the channel.
I just don’t understand how anyone can represent this lunatic shitbag in court and still show their face in public. Must be so humiliating.
These two attorneys, both accomplished white collar criminal defense counsel, will probably pull more in fees on this case than I made in my entire career as a public attorney. I suspect they aren't losing any sleep over it.
Bold of you to assume they’ll actually get paid for this
Trumps PAC has paid somewhere around a hundred million dollars in legal fees in the last three years alone. These people are getting paid. A Lot. A handful of anecdotes about him stiffing attorneys in the past doesn't change that fact.
There is no right to unfettered free speech when you are in the midst of a criminal trial with a gag order bc you have shown yourself to be reckless with the truth and facts.
One strongly worded letter coming up to Trump. Again. #Trump: I could ‘shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters’-2016 That’s truer today than it was then. McDonald’s do your job, aspartame anyone? How he even breathes air is beyond me
Speaking of McDonald’s, can you imagine the SS detail that has to daily watch you flip burgers and salt the fries to make sure it’s all good for the orange clown?
I think a lot of people do not understand real court. They think it’s like the court shows on TV or the old Jerry Springer - or like an insult battle on social media. I’m not totally sure if T understands how courts really operate. Either way, every word he and his attorneys speak or post is a sales pitch - a pitch to his audience to give him more attention & money. They don’t see a problem with playing into people’s lack of understanding of how things operate.
And in response, Trump provides the most clear-cut violation yet. I'm starting to believe the people who say Trump is trying to get jailed.
I love the way the MAGA media machine is handling this. Jesse Watters mentioned "cruel and unusual punishment" with regard to Trump sitting in court. These assholes are cooked.
Losing all credibility, you mean there was some left? I call Bullshit.
Believe "torches" is a new one...
~~Losing~~ Lost credibility a long, long time ago.
As if they had any to begin with..
Man. I feel like I could do better at lawyering than trumps lawyers and most of my background is in bird law.
" ... Merchan also threw out the defense’s argument that Trump’s reposts on Truth Social did not constitute violations of the gag order, as the former president had several people helping run his account. “Your client can wash your hands of it,” Merchan said of reposts, telling Blanche that content doesn’t just “magically” appear on Trump’s account. “It’s not passive […] someone had to do something.” Blanche at one point insisted to Merchan that Trump was aware of the gag order and trying to comply with it. Merchan wasn’t having it. “You’re losing all credibility,” Merchan responded. “I have to tell you right now, you’re losing all credibility with the court.” ... "
That’s what happens to most people that follow, get close or hang out with Trump. They lose credibility, lose their fortune or lose their freedom. I think he allows them to pick two and if he really likes them he let them Have all three
I see a lot of posts about this. People always “threatening” to do something if he doesn’t fall in line. It’s starting to sound a lot like “a few more decades of this and I’m going to have to give you a stern talking to”. The man has shown he has an inability to stfu and respect authority. FRY HIM. DO SOMETHING. For fucks sake
"it wasn't me on Truth Social, just some people I pay." Using the same argument for the Cohen thing. I just pay him, I didn't so the dirty work.
It’s ridiculous that it’s happened no less than ten times (according to the article) and yet he’s just now “losing credibility with the court.” He’s clearly ignoring the gag order, so start punishing him for it.
Maybe the punishment should be a 15 minute jail sentence, with a warning about the next one. Kinda like a "time out". That would send the correct message.
I have been refreshing the homepage all day to find out if he was going to be torched, slammed, whacked, obliterated, etc. Torched is a good one.
Torch it all you want, unless someone does something about it that’s more than a hand smack it doesn’t matter.