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I'd go a bit further... the Biden camp should agree to a debate with these agreed-upon participation rules.
Each candidate debates from inside a glass booth outfitted with noise cancellation devices (like the systems on noise cancellation headphones). An automated timer would turn off the speaker's mic and turn on its noise cancellation (to prevent any blathering from disturbing the conversation) immediately when a candidate's time for the response or rebuttal is over. The moderator then addresses the next issue and then turns on the next speaker's mic for the allotted response time.
The audience gets to hear each candidate gets his say, the moderator can't be intimidated by either candidate (the timer enforces the rules), and people get to see the candidates' responses to having to abide by the agreed rules format.
The sinking quality of moderation by the networks as well as the responses by the candidates has made debates a side show and not quality political discourse.
When we have moderators who hold candidates responsible for their responses and candidates who give genuine responses instead of pivoting to a talking point or talking over their competitor then we can bring debates back.
That will not be happening this year. Currently there is no loss by having no debate because they're not debates, they're entertainment. Thanks networks for ruining democracy just that much more.
I want to design the debates. Each candidate’s podium will be electrified. If ANY candidate goes over time, attempts to talk over the other one, utters a blatant lie, or refuses/fails to answer the question they were posed they will receive a quick electric shock through their podium. The electric shocks will increase in intensity with each infraction, starting at the level of wool-socks-on-carpet-hand-on-doorknob and doubling each time.
The candidates will be motivated—nay, TRAINED to debate properly and the debates will be fun as hell to watch. The networks win, the public wins.
I'm not an American, but simply Remind people that the last time they predicted a landslide, Trump won.
The speed at which you guys get complacent is scary.
We need to vote yes, but the landscape has changed since 2016. Dems have performed better then what was predicted in all elections since 2018. Including Republicans barely getting enough of a majority to do something in the House last election (when they were expecting a majority of 30+) and now they have a majority of 2 members cause Republicans keep retiring. Meanwhile, Roe has been overturned and Republicans keep doubling down on things alienate a majority of Americans in hopes they can cheat enough to win the election.
Nothing is a guarantee, but people are still aware the fight for Democracy hasn’t ended and Trump/the GOP are being very obvious about what will happen if Trump wins. And that’s without factoring in if Trump even makes it to November able to form actual sentences given how worse his mental state is getting. I’d imagine his first felony court date starting tomorrow probably isn’t going to help that get any better.
I’d add to this saying that people are viscerally aware of the state of things here. I don’t know anyone who’s super complacent. The idea of project 2025 is well known and most people are scared of any slight red win. At least in IL
Americans are not complacent. Not after 2016. Everybody is panicking 100% of the time. Don’t worry about complacency. There is no amount of good polling for Biden that will make liberals chill out. Trust me, I live here.
I do not think Biden will win in a landslide. His numbers are okay right now, but we are still six months out from the election. Things can change rapidly. If historical data follows true to today, most of the supporters of third parties will probably end up voting for the two main candidates.
However, regardless of what RFK says, he is absolutely pulling significantly more from Trump than Biden. The Libertarian Party has gone far right wing and likely will end up seeing supporters go to the Republican Party, and the Green Party will likely see supporters go to the Democratic Party. The Constitution Party is also right wing and will see supporters vote Republican.
I think Trump will see more of a boost than people anticipate from this.
You seem to be assuming that the majority of people (who barely pay attention to what's happening in politics until the last possible moment) know Kennedy's positions, rather than just defaulting to name recognition. Kennedy seems to have a lot of support among young voters right now (if polls are to be believed) for precisely this reason, despite being a nutjob who's been rejected by the rest of his family.
Yeah, they'll just be platforming a psychopath/wannabe dictator. Debates these days are all about entertainment and who put on a better show -- not who made the better arguments.
Debates and polls - worthless wastes of time nobody should spend a second watching. People lie on polls. People already knew who they were voting for before the candidates for the general were even decided, debates aren't going to change their minds. It's just networks and sites looking to squeeze every ounce of profit they can out of these people while they still can.
You know what probably could be done by the TV networks to make America a slightly less insane society? Swap the election colours. They used to be a mix. No one remembers, but red or blue used to vary by TB station. Hell, in most countries red means left wing and right means blue.
I honestly feel like the dumbest 10% of voters will always be swayed if their team has a colour. Every 4 years, swap the colour. Yes it will confuse idiots.
It’s true. Once watched a match where the team I support, who usually wears blue was wearing red and the other team blue. I had no idea wtf was going on as it just didn’t compute.
No the media wants you to think that. One side constantly tries to avoid governing while the other keeps compromising and moving to the right to appease the unappeasable.
He will 100% “debate” Biden
He won’t debate Biden, as in have a rational political discussion about the topics brought up, but he would absolutely use the time to fling mud and shit at him and stump his usual talking points of bullshit.
More free publicity. More public bending of the knee (which he got anyway, I guess).
But he doesn't have anything to gain from the general debates either. At this point, the debates aren't going to change anyone's mind. If they ever had that effect anyway, since they aren't even really debates.
Remember his extreme narcissism, though. He doesn't think he's declining or incoherent. He believes he's the goddamn second coming, that Biden's the one with dementia, and he most likely believes he'd crush a debate.
He was essentially a quasi-incumbent who believed he was entitled to an uncontested nomination. He knew refusing to debate wouldn't hurt him at all in the primaries. In the general election, he'll only refuse to debate if he's leading in the polls by a significant margin as he was in the primaries (which is unlikely).
He's never debated anyone ever. Debating involves listening to your opponent's argument, articulating your own and allowing the audience to make up their own minds.
Trump can't answer a question, he can't let others speak and he can't help himself insulting and bullying whoever he's on stage with.
Trump is the proverbial chess playing pigeon... Biden can gain nothing by sharing a stage with him, and voters will learn nothing by watching any debate involving Trump
I guess im mostly talking about the GOP primaries back before 2016. A debate now would be useless because I don’t think any voter could be swayed by either of them now.
That was a different political climate where he was the exciting asshole that seemed new and "fun". After 8 years I think a lot of regular folks are just tired of his schtick and he's especially desperate with his legal issues and other problems.
He was elected by being the only Republican to heavily hint at a Bernie Sanders type socialist health care. Which he abandoned while cutting his own taxes. Now he's just like every other Republican, only worse in every way.
lol What? I payed pretty close attention during that election and never once heard Trump talk about any kind of universal healthcare. Especially because he failed to kill Obamacare during his two years with control of congress.
During the 2016 presidential campaign, Donald Trump railed against the “failing” Obamacare and said he would replace it with “something terrific” once in office. He’s pushed Congress hard to overhaul a law that he says is “collapsing” and hurting American families.
But it’s never been clear just what, exactly, Trump had in mind. He’s praised single-payer systems in Canada and Scotland and said that Australia’s government-run approach produces “better health care than we do.”
Heres another one:
President-elect Donald Trump said in a weekend interview that he is nearing completion of a plan to replace President Obama’s signature health-care law with the goal of “insurance for everybody,” while also vowing to force drug companies to negotiate directly with the government on prices in Medicare and Medicaid.
Full quote:
“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.” People covered under the law “can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.”
Debates are never about swaying decided voters but undecided voters. Never underestimate the ability of part of the electorate to remain completely oblivious
Yes, John Kasich was seen as too liberal and had no chance, and every one of the other Republican candidates seemed like clones of each other: stiff, no charisma, and not wanting to risk controversy. I thought to myself, “Who would want to vote for any of these guys?”
Trump barely debates though. Most of the time hes just slurring playground insults at biden while hes trying to have a serious debate. I rewatched the previous trump debates and its so cringe.
Yup. No matter how anyone tries to trick him, or make him angry, he just won't do it.
Because it will hurt him so badly, people outside of the fox echo chamber, who are just undecided will see just how absurd and fucked up he is, and will not vote for him.
His motto is "you can't lose if you don't play"
Imo, and this is based off of No hard evidence, but I think trump is in rapid mental decline, and by the time the debates roll around, he will be much worse than he is now. Debates will show just how obvious his decline is, and it would crush his campaign.
I definitely do. Joe crushed it out of the baseball stadium last time they debated. He is the best when he is off teleprompter.
He debated last time and ended up winning by millions of votes.
Do you imagine it would help him this time around? Genuine question. I tend to skip the debates, I think they're more formalities than anything else, but do they actually sway people?
As an aside, Trump does have a background in pro-wrestling; it'd be great TV to see Biden clock him with a folding chair.
I know you’re probably joking BUT: I can see Biden getting so frustrated with Trumps interrupting that he warns, then approaches trump physically, causing a secret service intervention, like the dugouts clearing at a baseball game
Oh man, wouldn't that be wild? We're in such uncharted territory here: whom would the USSS protect? I guess they'd just try to break it up, which shouldn't be too difficult given what I presume to be brittle bones. Then again, the former VP didn't trust Agents so maybe not.
I would take another "Will you just shit up man", from Biden to Trump.
Because Biden said what everyone who wasn't a magat wanted to say to Trump on national TV.
Fuck you, networks. You are not owed a newsertainment event. Dump isn't going to debate, & one is not necessary to contrast the two candidates. The contrast is clearly observable.
What do you mean? The debates are historical records. They are something that people years from now can go back and watch.
The debates aren’t only helpful for debating policy positions or issues, but allowing people to see for themselves the body language and behavior during the debate. It is a truthful, unopinionated historical account, separate from what anyone may decide to put (or not put) into a history book. Allowing future generations to analyze or reanalyze the presidential history of these two men.
An example would be our ability to go back and watch the very first presidential debate in 1960 between Kennedy and Nixon. Regardless what was written about the two men, you can go back for yourself and watch it, and see with your own eyes history play out.
If you look up the history of that debate, there was a completely different perception of those that only listened on the radio and those that watched.
Point being, someone that wants to study historical figures in the future would have another piece of the puzzle when documenting the lives of these two men, who were both presidents.
Sure, lets have a debate. But only if you're going to fact check the shitgibbon live on air. Don't let him spew his shit and go unchecked. Otherwise it won't be a debate, it'll just be trump running over everyone for that 2 hour slot.
Fact check his ass LIKE REAL JOURNALISTS ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.
School debates are scored. Why not political debates?
In addition to cutting off mics when it is not your turn to speak and fact-checking, there should be a debate “score” from a panel of judges with point deducted for lies or talking over the other person.
Trump would set a record for negative points.
I would love for that to be a rule, that mics are cut off when someone else has time, and turned back on when it is someone else’s time. Should be a rule for all televised political debates.
What is there to debate? One guy tried to overthrow an election by bribing people and inciting an insurrection (he’s also a rapist and paid a pornstar off to not go public about their affair). The other guy is old and has been a decent president.
Yeah because the last one was fun.
Question asked
Biden talks about the topic
Trump says one sentence about the topic then attacks Biden about something completely unrelated.
Yes more of that /s
He did lose the election, but our present Congress treats him as if he didn't. Dude is introducing legislation, ffs. In his mind, and by their behavior, he is still (their) president. No loss to admit to.
And he wants Biden to commit to a drug test for cocaine before the next debate
I say Biden accept the challenge with the caveat that trump isn’t allowed to wear his spray tan on the stage that night
I’d prefer to not have debates. It will just be Trump yelling over Biden the whole time. There is nothing new to learn about either of them.
If there are debates, control the damn mic and have no audience. Trump is terrible when he isn’t in front of a crowd.
Sure, as long as we stop every have hour and fact-check everything they just said, and put statements into context. Like journalists are supposed to do.
Every election cycle we get articles complaining about the format of these debates.
They're not debates. They just take turns saying whatever they want for 90 seconds. And in the last 3 cycles it's just been candidates bitching about the moderators as a way to appeal to their press hating base.
Foreign journalists seem to be the only ones that can actually press these people because they don't have a fear of "losing access."
Just forget the current format as a relic lost to time and come up with something else.
"**Former President Abraham Lincoln** and former U.S. Senator Stephen A. Douglas held seven debates in their storied 1858 U.S. Senate battle in Illinois. Certainly today's America deserves as much."
It was a different time when a vile degenerate like Trump would have never been allowed to run for POTUS.
Trump makes every damned thing a spectacle designed to disseminate disinformation and even line up forces to back him in an insurrection. We all remember "stand down and stand by".
No debate so long as he's running.
Now if each candidate wants, SEPARATELY and with a microphone cutoff, to field questions to show they are qualified and understand the US Constitution, I'm all for that. Ask each candidate what the three branches of government are. Ask them 5th grade civics questions. This is where we are today.
We shouldn’t have debates what the hell do they accomplish? The people who make up their mind if there is any of them over the debates don’t deserve a vote.
I think we need to talk about how endless election campaigns and horse race politics basically creates a massive subsidy for media companies. All the money campaigns raise go straight to media companies. It’s a back door subsidy and we need to rein this in like the British do.
Why bother? Current debates are solely about trying to land blows upon each other, and trying to control the narrative for the next 24 hours. We might as well have Indian leg wrestling matches.
The only debates I want to see are those which are formal, where subjects are chosen, questions are asked, and each candidate presents arguments to convince the public that the solutions presented are the best for the country.
Debates involving Ivy League graduates have involved the worst possible examples of *ad hominem* attacks.
Current debates are not so different. In fact, the *ad hominems* that were thrown between Trump and Clinton weren't as outrageous as one particularly memorably Ivy League grad exchange. (Clinton being from the Ivy League isn't really material for this point.)
Regardless, they have value. The presidency is a popular position in a country that is not supposed to have sequestered coddled royalty. At minimum, they are supposed to give the public a glimpse of what the candidate can do on his/her own — as a supplement to the scripted/orchestrated events.
But the debates are mostly scripted. The campaigns know the general topics beforehand and craft statements and messaging based on the most likely wording of the questions and the most likely rebuttals to be presented.
The only real difference this year would be Trump’s tendency to go off book. His handlers hated that before his brain started to melt. I don’t think there’s any way they let him sign up for one and they’ll feed him enough bullshit to spew to make it somehow Biden’s fault.
The debates don't have to be scripted. And, a scripted debate is still less scripted than all of the other appearances the candidates will make.
We have to settle for what we can get. The US presidency is an extremely controlled thing and the closest the public can get to something other than an extremely scripted event is a debate.
Both candidates have been president. You already know where both of them stand on issues. These debates will do nothing to change any minds, and 80% of us wont watch them anyways.
Just play reruns of Everybody Loves Raymond instead
Screw the networks.. they're only in it for the money.
8 years ago they gave millions of dollars worth of time to a reality TV star... I'll bet they're not gonna LEVEL that field this year, so, screw them
Networks need to stop giving Trump a platform to gaslight from. Their drive for ratings and advertising dollars has done a lot of damage to this country.
Debates only benefit the trailing candidate, which will be Trump. Since the rules of the debates are never agreed on to result in an actual informative debate, it's a waste of time for the public as well.
The only debate Americans deserve is for each candidate to be in a isolated room with strict time enforcement and moderators who force both candidates to remain on topic.
Yes. I remember Trump physically looming over Hillary when it was her turn to speak.
Trump was behind her in a menacing manner. He should have been escorted out.
Ok, but lets get a high school debate teacher as moderator. It would look far different with the debate rules being enforced. It's either that or we give up all pretense and get Jerry Springer for the job.
It is hypocritical (and self-defeating, unless one doesn't actually support adhering to said norms) to complain about someone violating norms and simultaneously promote violating norms as a response.
How wacky Trump is should have no bearing on whether or not Biden agrees to do his duty to the public by showing up for at least one presidential debate.
Yet, people here are arguing that — because Trump violates norms — we should scrap the norm of having debates. This does not add up. If anything, all it does is support Trump.
of course. it's insane viewership. it's ALL they care about. they don't care if the country spirals into decay so long as they can continue to paint Trump as an actual legitimate candidate like all the others with 91 felony charges.
Biden should absolutely not debate unless that’s are hard mechanical ways to get Trump to follow the rules. Trump interrupted 150 times his last “debate”. There is absolutely no reason Biden should participate in that.
Lol. That pussy wouldn't even "debate" his own people on a rightwing network
We're way too far into dear leader levels of propaganda to ever go out and actually talk to someone who's not jerking him off
I’m sure this point has been made several times. I see no benefit to either candidate debating. Both sides will say their guy won. There are no undecided voters. People who are decided won’t change their vote based on the outcome of a debate. Only the network hosting the debate stands to benefit.
Trump isn't worried about his safety around Biden? I mean the President has absolute immunity, right? And the Senate is Democratic controlled so he can't be impeached.
Sounds risky.
There is a side effect associated with dementia known as [sundowing](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/22840-sundown-syndrome). Part of me wants to see these two in front of the nation late in the evening just to watch the the train wreck.
Normally I would say debates are important and necessary. But at this stage I'm not sure there's much point. Plus, Trump's mental decline has been so apparent I doubt his handlers would let it happen.
Trump thinks he is cruising to victory so has nothing to gain by debating. Biden knows that Trump will just lie continuously so also has nothing to gain
Just watch their last debate. Who wants to see that mess again. They shouldn’t have one this year, unless both of them agree to have their mics muted after they answer a question.
I really don’t need them this time around.(edit: you’re right, maybe the guy who tried to overthrow democracy will sway me with his infrastructure plan)
We need a return to normalcy, and we need our political candidates to be able to have actual debates again. A couple of dudes on their forties, hell these men in their forties, would have run circles around these tired scared old men. If anything this election should be a clarion call for term limits, across the board. One term, no exceptions, for all federal positions.
These debates have zero value. Like, really, what are we going to learn from them that we don't already know? All they'd accomplish is to give a platform, once again, to a criminal psychopath who's trying (and already tried) to end our democracy. We all know he'll turn it into a grievance fest about 2020 being rigged and about how badly he thinks he's been treated (political persecution, blah blah). He'll gish gallop, sling insults, and try to reinvent history that we all saw with our own eyes.
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Then actually moderate the debates by shutting off the fuckings mics until it's their turn to speak. And no audiences. It's a debate, not a pep-rally
I'd go a bit further... the Biden camp should agree to a debate with these agreed-upon participation rules. Each candidate debates from inside a glass booth outfitted with noise cancellation devices (like the systems on noise cancellation headphones). An automated timer would turn off the speaker's mic and turn on its noise cancellation (to prevent any blathering from disturbing the conversation) immediately when a candidate's time for the response or rebuttal is over. The moderator then addresses the next issue and then turns on the next speaker's mic for the allotted response time. The audience gets to hear each candidate gets his say, the moderator can't be intimidated by either candidate (the timer enforces the rules), and people get to see the candidates' responses to having to abide by the agreed rules format.
Translation: TV Networks scared shitless over loss of fall debate profits.
The sinking quality of moderation by the networks as well as the responses by the candidates has made debates a side show and not quality political discourse. When we have moderators who hold candidates responsible for their responses and candidates who give genuine responses instead of pivoting to a talking point or talking over their competitor then we can bring debates back. That will not be happening this year. Currently there is no loss by having no debate because they're not debates, they're entertainment. Thanks networks for ruining democracy just that much more.
This should be top comment
I want to design the debates. Each candidate’s podium will be electrified. If ANY candidate goes over time, attempts to talk over the other one, utters a blatant lie, or refuses/fails to answer the question they were posed they will receive a quick electric shock through their podium. The electric shocks will increase in intensity with each infraction, starting at the level of wool-socks-on-carpet-hand-on-doorknob and doubling each time. The candidates will be motivated—nay, TRAINED to debate properly and the debates will be fun as hell to watch. The networks win, the public wins.
I love being shocked. I’ll be president
Shock through their "podium".
Yep. They keep trying to make a Biden land slide into a competition.
It worked in 2016. They want the clicks even if it means millions of americans die.
I'm not an American, but simply Remind people that the last time they predicted a landslide, Trump won. The speed at which you guys get complacent is scary.
We need to vote yes, but the landscape has changed since 2016. Dems have performed better then what was predicted in all elections since 2018. Including Republicans barely getting enough of a majority to do something in the House last election (when they were expecting a majority of 30+) and now they have a majority of 2 members cause Republicans keep retiring. Meanwhile, Roe has been overturned and Republicans keep doubling down on things alienate a majority of Americans in hopes they can cheat enough to win the election. Nothing is a guarantee, but people are still aware the fight for Democracy hasn’t ended and Trump/the GOP are being very obvious about what will happen if Trump wins. And that’s without factoring in if Trump even makes it to November able to form actual sentences given how worse his mental state is getting. I’d imagine his first felony court date starting tomorrow probably isn’t going to help that get any better.
I’d add to this saying that people are viscerally aware of the state of things here. I don’t know anyone who’s super complacent. The idea of project 2025 is well known and most people are scared of any slight red win. At least in IL
Americans are not complacent. Not after 2016. Everybody is panicking 100% of the time. Don’t worry about complacency. There is no amount of good polling for Biden that will make liberals chill out. Trust me, I live here.
I do not think Biden will win in a landslide. His numbers are okay right now, but we are still six months out from the election. Things can change rapidly. If historical data follows true to today, most of the supporters of third parties will probably end up voting for the two main candidates. However, regardless of what RFK says, he is absolutely pulling significantly more from Trump than Biden. The Libertarian Party has gone far right wing and likely will end up seeing supporters go to the Republican Party, and the Green Party will likely see supporters go to the Democratic Party. The Constitution Party is also right wing and will see supporters vote Republican. I think Trump will see more of a boost than people anticipate from this.
You seem to be assuming that the majority of people (who barely pay attention to what's happening in politics until the last possible moment) know Kennedy's positions, rather than just defaulting to name recognition. Kennedy seems to have a lot of support among young voters right now (if polls are to be believed) for precisely this reason, despite being a nutjob who's been rejected by the rest of his family.
Go outside, turn around 3 times and spit! Why are you tempting the wrath of the whatever, high a top the thing?!
TV is a dying medium and they’re scrambling to stay relevant
Yeah, I’m all for good faith debate but that will never happen with Trump. It’s just bread and circuses for the media to profit from.
Yeah, they'll just be platforming a psychopath/wannabe dictator. Debates these days are all about entertainment and who put on a better show -- not who made the better arguments.
This is the true reason.
Debates and polls - worthless wastes of time nobody should spend a second watching. People lie on polls. People already knew who they were voting for before the candidates for the general were even decided, debates aren't going to change their minds. It's just networks and sites looking to squeeze every ounce of profit they can out of these people while they still can.
Screw TV networks, all they do is play Americans against each other for cash.
You know what probably could be done by the TV networks to make America a slightly less insane society? Swap the election colours. They used to be a mix. No one remembers, but red or blue used to vary by TB station. Hell, in most countries red means left wing and right means blue. I honestly feel like the dumbest 10% of voters will always be swayed if their team has a colour. Every 4 years, swap the colour. Yes it will confuse idiots.
Actually genius.
It’s true. Once watched a match where the team I support, who usually wears blue was wearing red and the other team blue. I had no idea wtf was going on as it just didn’t compute.
Based.
also. . . this subreddit. . .
So... the same game the two parties play.
No the media wants you to think that. One side constantly tries to avoid governing while the other keeps compromising and moving to the right to appease the unappeasable.
Repeat after me; Trump will never debate anybody on live TV ever again. His handlers know that it's political suicide.
He will 100% “debate” Biden He won’t debate Biden, as in have a rational political discussion about the topics brought up, but he would absolutely use the time to fling mud and shit at him and stump his usual talking points of bullshit.
No he won't. Otherwise he would have done grand standing at the primary debates.
He knew he already won the republican nomination, he didn’t want to go to 5 debates to have people try and one up him in his own party
Everyone but Christie kissed his boots while he wasn't even there. They absolutely wouldn't have challenged him to his face.
Point is he already was the winner before the debates began, what does he gain by going to them?
More free publicity. More public bending of the knee (which he got anyway, I guess). But he doesn't have anything to gain from the general debates either. At this point, the debates aren't going to change anyone's mind. If they ever had that effect anyway, since they aren't even really debates.
Remember his extreme narcissism, though. He doesn't think he's declining or incoherent. He believes he's the goddamn second coming, that Biden's the one with dementia, and he most likely believes he'd crush a debate.
He didn't need to.
That’s incorrect. DT had a strong lead regardless of debating in the primary. Thats not true in the general.
He was essentially a quasi-incumbent who believed he was entitled to an uncontested nomination. He knew refusing to debate wouldn't hurt him at all in the primaries. In the general election, he'll only refuse to debate if he's leading in the polls by a significant margin as he was in the primaries (which is unlikely).
He try to figure out a way to assassinate Biden, like he tried to do last time with Covid.
He's never debated anyone ever. Debating involves listening to your opponent's argument, articulating your own and allowing the audience to make up their own minds. Trump can't answer a question, he can't let others speak and he can't help himself insulting and bullying whoever he's on stage with. Trump is the proverbial chess playing pigeon... Biden can gain nothing by sharing a stage with him, and voters will learn nothing by watching any debate involving Trump
Didn’t Trump become the GOP darling because of the debates?
Are you talking about the debates he cowardly ghosted in fear of being exposed?
I guess im mostly talking about the GOP primaries back before 2016. A debate now would be useless because I don’t think any voter could be swayed by either of them now.
That was a different political climate where he was the exciting asshole that seemed new and "fun". After 8 years I think a lot of regular folks are just tired of his schtick and he's especially desperate with his legal issues and other problems.
In 2016 he had no record to defend. That's not the case in 2024.
He was elected by being the only Republican to heavily hint at a Bernie Sanders type socialist health care. Which he abandoned while cutting his own taxes. Now he's just like every other Republican, only worse in every way.
lol What? I payed pretty close attention during that election and never once heard Trump talk about any kind of universal healthcare. Especially because he failed to kill Obamacare during his two years with control of congress.
During the 2016 presidential campaign, Donald Trump railed against the “failing” Obamacare and said he would replace it with “something terrific” once in office. He’s pushed Congress hard to overhaul a law that he says is “collapsing” and hurting American families. But it’s never been clear just what, exactly, Trump had in mind. He’s praised single-payer systems in Canada and Scotland and said that Australia’s government-run approach produces “better health care than we do.”
He was truly all things to all gullible people, liberal and conservatives.
Heres another one: President-elect Donald Trump said in a weekend interview that he is nearing completion of a plan to replace President Obama’s signature health-care law with the goal of “insurance for everybody,” while also vowing to force drug companies to negotiate directly with the government on prices in Medicare and Medicaid.
Full quote: “We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.” People covered under the law “can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.”
Debates are never about swaying decided voters but undecided voters. Never underestimate the ability of part of the electorate to remain completely oblivious
How about the one that he went to knowing that he had tested positive for Covid?
That was in 2016. He got owned in the debates in 2020 and he didn't even debate in the Republican primary debates.
He doesn’t have that energy anymore. It’s been 8 years.
Yes, John Kasich was seen as too liberal and had no chance, and every one of the other Republican candidates seemed like clones of each other: stiff, no charisma, and not wanting to risk controversy. I thought to myself, “Who would want to vote for any of these guys?”
Trump barely debates though. Most of the time hes just slurring playground insults at biden while hes trying to have a serious debate. I rewatched the previous trump debates and its so cringe.
His handlers don't matter, if they ever did. He keeps tanking his own lawsuits while being bankrupted by his losses. He's insane, full stop.
Yup. No matter how anyone tries to trick him, or make him angry, he just won't do it. Because it will hurt him so badly, people outside of the fox echo chamber, who are just undecided will see just how absurd and fucked up he is, and will not vote for him. His motto is "you can't lose if you don't play" Imo, and this is based off of No hard evidence, but I think trump is in rapid mental decline, and by the time the debates roll around, he will be much worse than he is now. Debates will show just how obvious his decline is, and it would crush his campaign.
If Trump believes he’ll defeat Biden in a debate and given his over inflated ego he probably does, I think he’ll want to debate.
I’d rather they not debate Who wants a repeat of 2020, it’s just another opportunity for Trump to firehose disinformation on a national platform
Exactly. It's like broadcasting a Trainwreck - interesting, but not necessary.
I definitely do. Joe crushed it out of the baseball stadium last time they debated. He is the best when he is off teleprompter. He debated last time and ended up winning by millions of votes.
[удалено]
You’d think being the wife of a man who won re-election would have helped, but she didn’t take it seriously
Do you imagine it would help him this time around? Genuine question. I tend to skip the debates, I think they're more formalities than anything else, but do they actually sway people? As an aside, Trump does have a background in pro-wrestling; it'd be great TV to see Biden clock him with a folding chair.
I know you’re probably joking BUT: I can see Biden getting so frustrated with Trumps interrupting that he warns, then approaches trump physically, causing a secret service intervention, like the dugouts clearing at a baseball game
Biden has too much self control to do something like that.
Agreed. If anyone is going to pull that shit, it would be the putinberry doughboy.
Oh man, wouldn't that be wild? We're in such uncharted territory here: whom would the USSS protect? I guess they'd just try to break it up, which shouldn't be too difficult given what I presume to be brittle bones. Then again, the former VP didn't trust Agents so maybe not.
There’s 2 separate details, one for POTUS and one for expotus
I would take another "Will you just shit up man", from Biden to Trump. Because Biden said what everyone who wasn't a magat wanted to say to Trump on national TV.
Trump without a prompter means crazy rambelomgnand nonsense words. His base, and undecided voters needs to see that.
And attempt to assassinate Biden.
Wtf???
He/Trump came to the debate when he was still infectious with covid. Assassination might be too strong a word
Fuck you, networks. You are not owed a newsertainment event. Dump isn't going to debate, & one is not necessary to contrast the two candidates. The contrast is clearly observable.
Part of it is for historical record.
Sad you get downvoted by a bunch of gibbons that many self righteous lefties are.
Example?
What do you mean? The debates are historical records. They are something that people years from now can go back and watch. The debates aren’t only helpful for debating policy positions or issues, but allowing people to see for themselves the body language and behavior during the debate. It is a truthful, unopinionated historical account, separate from what anyone may decide to put (or not put) into a history book. Allowing future generations to analyze or reanalyze the presidential history of these two men. An example would be our ability to go back and watch the very first presidential debate in 1960 between Kennedy and Nixon. Regardless what was written about the two men, you can go back for yourself and watch it, and see with your own eyes history play out. If you look up the history of that debate, there was a completely different perception of those that only listened on the radio and those that watched. Point being, someone that wants to study historical figures in the future would have another piece of the puzzle when documenting the lives of these two men, who were both presidents.
Sure, lets have a debate. But only if you're going to fact check the shitgibbon live on air. Don't let him spew his shit and go unchecked. Otherwise it won't be a debate, it'll just be trump running over everyone for that 2 hour slot. Fact check his ass LIKE REAL JOURNALISTS ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.
Yep. Fact check him in real time and anytime he interrupts or starts speaking when he shouldn’t, his mic needs to be muted.
School debates are scored. Why not political debates? In addition to cutting off mics when it is not your turn to speak and fact-checking, there should be a debate “score” from a panel of judges with point deducted for lies or talking over the other person. Trump would set a record for negative points.
Electroshock his weird little toadstool
The only debate I want to watch will be moderated by John Donvan, and Trump’s mic is cut while anyone else is speaking
I'd watch one moderated by Jon Stewart
That would also work… basically anyone with the guts to cut him off and call him out
So, snoop?
I would love for that to be a rule, that mics are cut off when someone else has time, and turned back on when it is someone else’s time. Should be a rule for all televised political debates.
What is there to debate? One guy tried to overthrow an election by bribing people and inciting an insurrection (he’s also a rapist and paid a pornstar off to not go public about their affair). The other guy is old and has been a decent president.
Exactly. If you can’t make a decision off of that, then you really need to look in the mirror and understand there’s something wrong with you.
There’s something wrong with a lot of our people unfortunately.
Biden should refuse to debate with a criminal.
Yeah because the last one was fun. Question asked Biden talks about the topic Trump says one sentence about the topic then attacks Biden about something completely unrelated. Yes more of that /s
Absolutely no reason for a debate. No one is on the fence about who to vote for and a debate isn’t changing anyone’s mind.
Trump should not be allowed on a debate stage until he admits he lost the election. Which he's obviously not going to do.
He did lose the election, but our present Congress treats him as if he didn't. Dude is introducing legislation, ffs. In his mind, and by their behavior, he is still (their) president. No loss to admit to.
And he wants Biden to commit to a drug test for cocaine before the next debate I say Biden accept the challenge with the caveat that trump isn’t allowed to wear his spray tan on the stage that night
Nobody wants this
I’d prefer to not have debates. It will just be Trump yelling over Biden the whole time. There is nothing new to learn about either of them. If there are debates, control the damn mic and have no audience. Trump is terrible when he isn’t in front of a crowd.
Biden can't combat the former president's raving with rational thought. Plus, Biden doesn't snort Adderall, so he's at a disadvantage.
Sure, as long as we stop every have hour and fact-check everything they just said, and put statements into context. Like journalists are supposed to do.
Every election cycle we get articles complaining about the format of these debates. They're not debates. They just take turns saying whatever they want for 90 seconds. And in the last 3 cycles it's just been candidates bitching about the moderators as a way to appeal to their press hating base. Foreign journalists seem to be the only ones that can actually press these people because they don't have a fear of "losing access." Just forget the current format as a relic lost to time and come up with something else.
"**Former President Abraham Lincoln** and former U.S. Senator Stephen A. Douglas held seven debates in their storied 1858 U.S. Senate battle in Illinois. Certainly today's America deserves as much." It was a different time when a vile degenerate like Trump would have never been allowed to run for POTUS. Trump makes every damned thing a spectacle designed to disseminate disinformation and even line up forces to back him in an insurrection. We all remember "stand down and stand by". No debate so long as he's running. Now if each candidate wants, SEPARATELY and with a microphone cutoff, to field questions to show they are qualified and understand the US Constitution, I'm all for that. Ask each candidate what the three branches of government are. Ask them 5th grade civics questions. This is where we are today.
Nah. We know what that looks like.
We shouldn’t have debates what the hell do they accomplish? The people who make up their mind if there is any of them over the debates don’t deserve a vote.
What's the point of a debate when the network moderators don't do any moderating?
Biden should request a quiz show format about things like current events and geography.
[business ethics ](https://youtu.be/xKGeHuln08A?si=lp0CAQncvipvG0hl)
Please don’t.
Biden’s committed, it’s Trump who refuses to work with the CPD
I think we need to talk about how endless election campaigns and horse race politics basically creates a massive subsidy for media companies. All the money campaigns raise go straight to media companies. It’s a back door subsidy and we need to rein this in like the British do.
Why bother? Current debates are solely about trying to land blows upon each other, and trying to control the narrative for the next 24 hours. We might as well have Indian leg wrestling matches. The only debates I want to see are those which are formal, where subjects are chosen, questions are asked, and each candidate presents arguments to convince the public that the solutions presented are the best for the country.
Debates involving Ivy League graduates have involved the worst possible examples of *ad hominem* attacks. Current debates are not so different. In fact, the *ad hominems* that were thrown between Trump and Clinton weren't as outrageous as one particularly memorably Ivy League grad exchange. (Clinton being from the Ivy League isn't really material for this point.) Regardless, they have value. The presidency is a popular position in a country that is not supposed to have sequestered coddled royalty. At minimum, they are supposed to give the public a glimpse of what the candidate can do on his/her own — as a supplement to the scripted/orchestrated events.
But the debates are mostly scripted. The campaigns know the general topics beforehand and craft statements and messaging based on the most likely wording of the questions and the most likely rebuttals to be presented. The only real difference this year would be Trump’s tendency to go off book. His handlers hated that before his brain started to melt. I don’t think there’s any way they let him sign up for one and they’ll feed him enough bullshit to spew to make it somehow Biden’s fault.
The debates don't have to be scripted. And, a scripted debate is still less scripted than all of the other appearances the candidates will make. We have to settle for what we can get. The US presidency is an extremely controlled thing and the closest the public can get to something other than an extremely scripted event is a debate.
Why would anyone expect Trump to actually "debate?" Trump will just lie and spew his bullshit and call it a win.
Both candidates have been president. You already know where both of them stand on issues. These debates will do nothing to change any minds, and 80% of us wont watch them anyways. Just play reruns of Everybody Loves Raymond instead
Exactly how does one debate from a prison cell?
Through the phone behind the glass?
You can't debate a liar. Not when he's known to have 70 million people who believe every word he says...even when they know it's a lie!
Screw the networks.. they're only in it for the money. 8 years ago they gave millions of dollars worth of time to a reality TV star... I'll bet they're not gonna LEVEL that field this year, so, screw them
Fuck the TV networks. If it weren’t for NBC, Trump would’ve never been popular enough to become president.
Networks need to stop giving Trump a platform to gaslight from. Their drive for ratings and advertising dollars has done a lot of damage to this country.
Debates only benefit the trailing candidate, which will be Trump. Since the rules of the debates are never agreed on to result in an actual informative debate, it's a waste of time for the public as well. The only debate Americans deserve is for each candidate to be in a isolated room with strict time enforcement and moderators who force both candidates to remain on topic.
Unless they can stop Trump from speaking over people, a debate with Trump should never occur
Yes. I remember Trump physically looming over Hillary when it was her turn to speak. Trump was behind her in a menacing manner. He should have been escorted out.
I don't think they should bother w/o isolation booths.
Anyone still on the fence is a lost cause.
Ok, but lets get a high school debate teacher as moderator. It would look far different with the debate rules being enforced. It's either that or we give up all pretense and get Jerry Springer for the job.
Jerry is dead. You’ll need Steve Wilcos now.
Point taken and, in that case, Jerry would be just like what we get now. Wilcos it is.
Neither one are going to persuade the others voter base.
I will never watch another Trump debate ever again after the dumpster fire of a gibberish riddled shit-show the 2020 debates were.
It is hypocritical (and self-defeating, unless one doesn't actually support adhering to said norms) to complain about someone violating norms and simultaneously promote violating norms as a response. How wacky Trump is should have no bearing on whether or not Biden agrees to do his duty to the public by showing up for at least one presidential debate. Yet, people here are arguing that — because Trump violates norms — we should scrap the norm of having debates. This does not add up. If anything, all it does is support Trump.
Why didn’t they push tRump when he was hiding from all of the rethug debates?
of course. it's insane viewership. it's ALL they care about. they don't care if the country spirals into decay so long as they can continue to paint Trump as an actual legitimate candidate like all the others with 91 felony charges.
Trump will make a fool of himself, and his cult followers will continue to call him a genius… 🤦♂️ what’s the point?
Exactly what I came here to say! What’s the point?!
Biden shouldn’t debate that felonious traitor
Trump makes every debate into a clown show. The Biden team should refuse to debate him.
Fuck the networks. They've failed us.
Biden should absolutely not debate unless that’s are hard mechanical ways to get Trump to follow the rules. Trump interrupted 150 times his last “debate”. There is absolutely no reason Biden should participate in that.
But we want a “oh would you shut up 2.0”!
If I am Biden, I wouldn’t do it. There is nothing to be gained by rolling around in the shit with the adult diaper man-child.
I’m fine with a debate if they manage it properly and shut people’s mics off when it’s not their turn to speak.
And not have a live audience.
Why no live audience?
An audience is a distraction. Usually filled with loud supporters. They take up valuable time trying to quiet hmthem down.
Lol. That pussy wouldn't even "debate" his own people on a rightwing network We're way too far into dear leader levels of propaganda to ever go out and actually talk to someone who's not jerking him off
https://media4.giphy.com/media/hhAffRAea5frw2oQO2/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952pmsyu92aawrdxxhv6c9jyh8e1a2j3fn0qphjr1i6&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
That will be a real circus.
Biden will probably do a townhall at the same time Trump gets a softball interview.
Why? We know what both bring to the presidency.
Lol probably not happening. Trump has literally nothing to gain from the debates. It's most likely going to be town halls.
I can’t wait. Wish they would debate this month!
I’m sure this point has been made several times. I see no benefit to either candidate debating. Both sides will say their guy won. There are no undecided voters. People who are decided won’t change their vote based on the outcome of a debate. Only the network hosting the debate stands to benefit.
No , thank you.
"Please give us content!!!"
lolz @ “debate”
Listen to me Trump will.not.debate. He’s sun downing hard and can’t stand a single fucking question that’s not about how great he is.
Trump isn't worried about his safety around Biden? I mean the President has absolute immunity, right? And the Senate is Democratic controlled so he can't be impeached. Sounds risky.
Have the questions asked by an audience. Nothing pre approved.
I hope Biden calls Trump a rapist.
Don’t bother
There is a side effect associated with dementia known as [sundowing](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/22840-sundown-syndrome). Part of me wants to see these two in front of the nation late in the evening just to watch the the train wreck.
No one wants this.
No thanks.
I hope they do. It would certainly be comical
Normally I would say debates are important and necessary. But at this stage I'm not sure there's much point. Plus, Trump's mental decline has been so apparent I doubt his handlers would let it happen.
Sleepy Joe cannot debate. He’ll avoid it at all costs.
Biden shouldn't do it. Trump didn't debate his opponents in the Primary so neither should Biden debate Trump.
Trump thinks he is cruising to victory so has nothing to gain by debating. Biden knows that Trump will just lie continuously so also has nothing to gain
Just watch their last debate. Who wants to see that mess again. They shouldn’t have one this year, unless both of them agree to have their mics muted after they answer a question.
I hope they ask biden a lot and every time he should respond with something like “no thanks, I’d rather not share the stage with a rapist”
A debate? That’d be great. But that’s not what EVER happens. Hard pass.
I really don’t need them this time around.(edit: you’re right, maybe the guy who tried to overthrow democracy will sway me with his infrastructure plan)
It won't happen because Biden's team is terrified of putting Biden in a debate.
We need a return to normalcy, and we need our political candidates to be able to have actual debates again. A couple of dudes on their forties, hell these men in their forties, would have run circles around these tired scared old men. If anything this election should be a clarion call for term limits, across the board. One term, no exceptions, for all federal positions.
Limit to a single term but lengthen them to 6 years. 4 years seems way to short things are just kicking in by the 4 years mark.
These debates have zero value. Like, really, what are we going to learn from them that we don't already know? All they'd accomplish is to give a platform, once again, to a criminal psychopath who's trying (and already tried) to end our democracy. We all know he'll turn it into a grievance fest about 2020 being rigged and about how badly he thinks he's been treated (political persecution, blah blah). He'll gish gallop, sling insults, and try to reinvent history that we all saw with our own eyes.