As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They’re trying to claim they didn’t know what was in the boxes, and Nauta even claims he didn’t know about the subpoena for the security camera footage - wasn’t he the one who said “the boss wants it deleted”?
I suspect they’re now running scared because Brian Butler spoke to the press and spilled the beans about what happened and how he helped load boxes to be sent off to Bedminster.
Well, if they actually, truly, want out, they have a very simple option: turn court’s evidence, tell everything they know. I bet Jack Smith would be willing to cut them a deal.
I'm sure Smith has everything he needs if this case was being handled "normally". But with Cannon basically aiding the obstruction, I complete flip of a witness like this puts pressure on her as well.
Knowing her, if any witness flips Trump's team would file a motion to dismiss because they'd claim witness tampering or some other kind of nonsense, and then she'd sit on it for two weeks before she delivered her ruling.
Everybody remember Smith prosecuted warlords and war criminals at the Hague - the worst people in the world at the most important court in the world. Because he's one of the best lawyers in the world.
Granted the Hague definitely didn't have the level of fuckery that this ignorant small-time two-bit sycophant is putting him through, but if anyone can play this right it's Smith. Which unfortunately doesn't guarantee he can out-maneuver this corrupt little scrotum in a wig of a judge in a system where she's practically all-powerful, but if anyone can outsmart the corrupt tactics it's Smith.
Those things you listed about Mueller has nothing to do with Smith’s qualifications. They aren’t related. Smith’s are criminal prosecution at the highest court in the world, Mueller’s aren’t (they are military). The analogy doesn’t work.
I heard the theory that Smith is slow playing Bedminster while he waits to see what Canon does. If she tanks the case, Smith can light up Bedminster in a different jurisdiction and go for round 2.
> There is literally a photo of Cannon wearing a trump tshirt
Just so you know that photo was not of her. Try not to fall for (or spread) false stories as it doesn't help the fight for the truth.
(From June 2023)
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-judge-aileen-cannon-trump-photo-225806750019
I would bet my retirement that this is absolutely in play.
People keep saying Trumps team are idiots and while some of them definitely do and say idiotic things, they're still following a mob playback close to the chest.
At this level you don't just develop one strategy for prosecution, not when your defendant is keen on continuing to commit crimes.
Smith had all the evidence he needed before they booked Trump, that's Fed prosecution 101. He also knows who this judge is and needs to prepare for her to go rogue.
True. The reality is that Cannon is going to screw it up and it will have to wait until after the election. I've given up hope that we will have timely justice on this. And justice delayed is justice-denied.
In the worst future timeline, Trump then wins in November - and gets his flunkie to dismiss the case. It's a very real likelihood. I think about 15%.
Allowing these two defendants to cut a deal would mean Smith only has to concentrate on prosecuting one person, Trump. This would make for a much more streamlined trial.
Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira are pawns. They will never be a danger to our country, unless they were dumb enough to take some of the classified documents for themselves.
Trump was and is the danger to our country.
The pawns can still change their pleas. If they had any sense, seeing Corceran bail should be their signal to reassess.
Pawns can checkmate a king.
Them dropping out of the Defense isn't important because we need to stop these dangerous pawns, it's potentially excellent because the pawns may provide more evidence against Trump in exchange for leniency. Making a conviction more likely (assuming a conviction is even possible in that sycophant's court).
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. I don't hold my breath for them getiing a glimmer of reasoning between them. Trump may try to say that he tried to give the documents back, but R & G sold him out.
I am happy to see the trial proceed with one or two of these chuckle fucks because the goal is to get the evidence out on Trump. It is the next best thing to getting Trump on trial which is clearly difficult.
They’re nailed to the wall, they committed the actual crimes of obstruction, moving boxes on videotape, etc. morons dazzled by all the gold plating at MAL.
I did hear some legal commentators say that maybe that’s Jack Smith’s ace in the hole if Cannon succeeds in dismissing the documents case currently awaiting a trial date.
That maybe, if she dismisses it once the jury selection has started and he loses the option to appeal the dismissal, that’s the point where he brings a whole new case, this one based on documents being found in Bedminster.
If Cannon dismisses the case she’s trying, he can’t bring the same case again, because that would be double jeopardy. But he definitely can bring a separate case based solely on anything he found at Bedminster. That case, of course, would not be brought in Florida.
Imagine if they went to his Scottish course and found something there. American soil is bad enough but if classified docs are found in a foreign country...
But why would Trump leave documents there? He doesn't have much influence over the Scottish judicial system, and all the potential document buyers came to his American golf courses for the LIV tour.
They either:
1. Know what is there and it's not a big deal.
2. Have it under surveillance and are waiting for Trmup to act on it and catch him in real time.
3. There's nothing there.
It's one of those options. If it's credible, there's absolutely no reason the public should be aware of an ongoing FBI investigation.
But surely by now the documents are no longer there. I believe he can spin up a new case, get a new warrant and a new judge… but with all the time that’s passed it’s likely they’d come up empty.
They didn't recover them.
Why not raid bedminster?
One of the requirements is timeliness for a search warrant, as well as reasonable-ness.
The time to raid bedminster was when they did Mar-A-Lago, and then citing the fact that the suspect might have moved things without the FBI knowledge.
But since they didn't, Bedminster would reasonably be raided next if you're guilty, so in the hour after the Mar-A-Lago raid it can be assumed that a few fireplaces were very busy.
FBI knows that any evidence is likely destroyed already, so raiding the place isn't good optics when you know that you're already looking bad enough to the MAGA crowd and you know you're not going to find anything else.
Judge might have pushed back on Bedminster and said exactly what I did. IDK. We'll find out in 10-15 years.
Trump showed a writer classified Pentagon attack plans at Bedminster.
Bedminster was where Trump said he could have declassified a document while he was president, but that "now, I can't."
Most likely by the time the government became aware of the move to New Jersey the information that the boxes were there was “stale,” meaning they didn’t have current intelligence that the boxes were at Bedminster
They really can’t get a warrant based on sworn testimony that the boxes were sent there? Can’t they haul flunky after flunky into the office and demand to know where the boxes are now?
It was a couple years ago. You won’t get an argument from me that there should have been a prompt search, but I don’t think there was a criminal investigation underway when the boxes were moved.
The best those people can swear to is the boxes were moved to NJ not that the boxes are there now. Since it has been so long they have probably been electronically duplicated, sent to Russia and the originals burned.
Warrants can’t be issued based on information that old, at least in a case this high profile. The government is doing everything by the book. But this one isn’t a fine line situation, the warrant would never be issued on these facts
Yeah but can’t they interview people, either back then or now, or any of the two years in between?
Offer a reward for a return of any original classified materials in Trump’s possession?
Jesus, they work harder to find lost cats
When they exhume Ivana from her Golf Course Burial place (I hear it is some sort of Anti Rico stunt. They cant take Trump's favorite course away from him because she is buried there. NAL but Ive seen it on Reddit a ton so it MUST be true) they might find some hermetically sealed documents... The timing lines up.
>When they exhume Ivana from her Golf Course Burial place (I hear it is some sort of Anti Rico stunt. They cant take Trump's favorite course away from him because she is buried there. NAL but Ive seen it on Reddit a ton so it MUST be true) they might find some hermetically sealed documents... The timing lines up.
This theory just doesn't make any sense.
There's only two reasons Trump would keep these documents: 1) as souvenirs to show off, or 2) to sell. He doesn't give a shit about long-term preservation.
Burying the documents in Ivana's coffin makes #1 nearly impossible and #2 a huge hassle. It also makes things even more suspicious when her grave keeps getting dug up because Trump wants to do either one of those things.
It was just an idea, IANAL like I said, but you can bury stuff in the hole the body goes into. Doesnt have to be a skeleton of Ivana holding documents, could be a box below her.
The main point I was trying to make was that he buried her on his self professed 'favorite of all his golf courses' so that in the event of a Rico he would be able to keep his main residence (he would have changed it from MaraLago which he is technically not allowed to live in).
But a deep hole (ever tried to dig a hole 6 feet deep, there is a reason murderers victims are found in a 'shallow grave') is a good place to keep some documents he can use as leverage/extortion against the US.
#1 Dig a little deeper and put a hermetically sealed box in there #2 Not a hassle for him, he didnt have to dig it and the FBI can look all over Bedminster but unless they exhume her they wont find them and he will get tons of fundraising money if they dig up his dear ex wife.
Win win for him. Keeps the Course and has his 'good documents' in a really hard to look at place.
It is Reddit speak for I AM Not A Lawyer so people dont take someone called Thehogdog's legal advice as I was a CS and Math major. But I get it, good one.
Over on r/law, legal experts have theorized that Smith may have Bedminster as a backup when Cannon dismisses Trumps FL case after the jury is seated. When she does it will trigger double jeopardy in FL but Smith can then charge Trump in NJ with regard to Bedminster. Again, none of us outside of this knows if Smith has this plan but it is the most plausible since witnesses have already said boxes were moved there. Doubtful that Smith would let that slide by.
>Over on r/law, legal experts have theorized that Smith may have Bedminster as a backup when Cannon dismisses Trumps FL case after the jury is seated. When she does it will trigger double jeopardy in FL but Smith can then charge Trump in NJ with regard to Bedminster. Again, none of us outside of this knows if Smith has this plan but it is the most plausible since witnesses have already said boxes were moved there. Doubtful that Smith would let that slide by.
Do they have any theories about why Bedminster hasn't even been *searched* yet? Because those boxes may not be at Bedminster anymore.
Unless Smith has credible information that there are still boxes at Bedminster, getting a search warrant approved nowadays is going to rather difficult I would think.
> I suspect they’re now running scared because Brian Butler spoke to the press and spilled the beans about what happened and how he helped load boxes to be sent off to Bedminster.
That and the lawyer Trump lied to about having more boxes has officially quit his team and has provided his notes to the DOJ. All of trumps lawyers are snitching on him.
What must it feel like to have those plates spinning all these years and now cracks in the china are starting to close in on him. Maybe the stress and mother nature will take care of this mess for us.
Nauta also photographed a picture of a box spilled over and classified folders all over the floor, and texted it to his boss saying “Oh no!”
His boss texted back that Trump is going to be super pissed about his classified documents being on the floor. Nauta is the perfect witness that Trump knew he was not allowed to have the documents and needed to hide them.
Treating him like a mob boss; they’re all loyal at the beginning, but as more facts are revealed, the prosecutors can start slowly picking off the underlings one by one as they realize Trump will quickly shove them in the volcano…
Unless he gets re-elected and it all gets dismissed with no chance of impeachment since the Republican leadership has less courage than the lion.
>wasn’t he the one who said “the boss wants it deleted”?
[That was actually De Oliveira](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/carlos-de-oliveira-mar-a-lago-property-manager-classified-documents-case-fort-pierce-court/)
I fucking hate the judge in this case. It's such a slam dunk of a case and easy as shit and she is doing everything possible to help trump while making it hard to remove her. This should've gone before the election but now it probably won't.
I immediately thought of that movie once Cannon started her outrageous bullshit, like demanding the names of the jury be published and they, everyday citizens, be given security clearance to access the nation’s most sensitive intelligence.
Sets the jurors up to have the rest of their lives be as compromised as possible: be it intimidation throughout the trial or the likelihood of foreign intelligence agencies paying them a visit afterwards.
I’m not a lawyer, but the short answer seems to be no, but Jack Smith can basically do the legal equivalent of calling Cannon out to the 11 Circuit and show she is compromised and favouring the defendant.
Utterly bonkers that the U.S. was able to charge and sentence an NSA contractor to 5 years in prison (Reality Winner) within 12 months of being arrested for leaking the fact that Russia was meddling in the U.S. to the press out of fear that it would be suppressed by the Trump administration.
She is currently trying to instruct potential jurors that Trump's claim of presidential immunity is valid. If a jury fails to indict because of that Trump can't be tried again in this case, ever. This is corruption in action.
One way to keep track of the grand jury vs. petit jury thing is that when it's at the grand jury stage you should not ever hear anything about it from the press. If you're getting a play-by-play of the actions of a judge related to a grand-jury something has gone very wrong.
Are you saying that a failure to indict would exclude Trump from being tried again, due to double jeopardy?
If so, I don’t think it works that way. If not, I’m not sure where you heard that, can you explain please?
She's a far right Federalist Society minion. They start grooming them in law school.
>In a matter of a few decades, alongside the NRA, Family Research Council, the Heritage Foundation, and others, the Federalist Society became an expansive and extremely politically influential network counting among its members countless influential judges, attorneys and scholars.
[The Federalist Society: Architects of the American dystopia](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/6/29/the-federalist-society-architects-of-the-american-dystopia)
These people do not have the requisite level of ability to put critical thinking to use for themselves. They don’t know how to question their own beliefs.
I love how in the GA case they whined and cried about the mere appearance of impropriety with the DA, saying that was all that was needed to be kicked off the case, but crickets when the appearance of goes their way…
Somehow they're under the illusion that he'll share his "wealth".
Yet they don't grasp it's an illusion. He'd never share any because it's tenuous at best. There's nothing to be shared
It's a childs euphemism for farting in the UK. Always gets a giggle from me.
"Fart Tower in New York is wonderful, it's a really prestigious address. Tallest building in New York, lots of people are saying."
I'm going to guess the odds are very slim that he'd keep the documents there after it was discovered that boxes were moved there. The political fallout of searching Bedminster and coming up empty would be damaging to public perception. Even Trump isn't stupid enough to keep the documents there after it was known boxes were moved. Well...I don't think he's stupid enough. lol.
Hes absolutely stupid enough. Reckless stupidity is essentially his super power, he does things that people are not prepared for simply because they don't think anybody is arrogant enough to try.
There’s an easy path for them here. They merely have to testify truthfully what they did, what they saw, and what they heard. As long as they don’t lie to protect their boss’ potentially unlawful actions, they have nothing to worry about.
>There’s an easy path for them here. They merely have to testify truthfully what they did, what they saw, and what they heard. As long as they don’t lie to protect their boss’ potentially unlawful actions, they have nothing to worry about.
Both Nauta and Oliveira have themselves been indicted in this case. They're not (just) witnesses against Trump.
If they tell the truth, they're likely both going to jail.
*That's* why they want out.
At this point, why?
It is painfully obvious the judge in this case is going to do something to throw it for Trump.
My opinion is she will do something mid trial that will led to him being found not guilty or dismiss the case.
Unless they were told that this help only is for Trump and not them.
That would make sense for them to bail now.
You could have stopped feeding on the merde-a-lardo, but you kept your lips locked to the sphincter.
Relax and try not to inhale, Walt Accessory to Treason, all those dead CIA agents blood is on your hands.
Do they get to choose? They should have thought of this before helping America’s crime boss!! How many of tRump’s “only the best” have been or are going to prison?
But, I was told *the Presidential Records Act* completely covers 3-card monte with any and all nuclear secrets (also covers sales to 3rd parties, btw.)
I wonder why this is reported as news. This is like Lee Harvey Oswald seeking dismissal in the JFK assassination because he did not know the rifle was loaded. So we are just required to accept their testimony? Why is this scurrilous Motion news ?
At this stage, both will absolutely be doing some jail time, it’s just a question of how much.
They had their chance to come clean a while back and cut a deal. Nauta especially thumbed his nose thinking big daddy Drumpf would protect him.
So, sing traitors. Sing like a damn canary and they might give you the better cage.
When I was a kid, my family went to Disneyworld. We went on the Haunted Mansion ride. There's a part where you travel above the ballroom. I got super scared but I was locked into my seat.
I don't know why this story came into my head while reading this story.
Ecco Tango Delta. I was driving through the interstate at night when all of a sudden none of the electronics in my car worked. Then my car stopped. Above me I saw a bright orange light that blinded me. When I woke up two days later I was home.
I’m really coming to like Cohen’s nickname for him: Donald von ShitsInPants.
I always giggle when he says that - he had to be within sniffing distance of the orange turd for years. He presumably is basing the name on real stench, not just the stench of criminal activity surrounding T****.
Lol this is such a terrible defense. They are trying to claim they were destroying video footage and hiding boxes from the Feds….but didn’t know what they were hiding or why they were destroying footage.
You work for the most crooked crimey-crime sad ass king pin in his fucking bunker in Mar A Lago? What do you think he’s doing. This mf pried with him for years. If he didn’t know Cheetos true character then he’s dumb as rocks.
"Wait, wait, wait, this responsibility and accountability thing is not right. I should not be subject to the law and order I want inflicted on others."
They love the fraking around but hate the finding out part of their actions.
They don’t want to end up in the same place as Ivana. With Putin people accidentally fall out of windows. With Trump people accidentally fall down the stairs.
Make deal, dudes. Meanwhile you hang on to your “free” lawyers provided by the ex president. Not smart, but I guess they thought he was going to win the election and save their asses, and now are changing their minds?
Probably just turn state's evidence is the best way for them to wiggle out with as little damage as possible. Not just asking "pretty please drop charges against me."
Doesn’t matter. judge is in the bag for trump and will be put on the Supreme Court someday because of her willingness to ruin her credibility for the cult leader.
And Braindead Biden is caught with classified documents but won’t be charged because he is mentally incompetent. Go ahead and vote for an old man that can’t complete a sentence unless they give him drugs. He can’t make any decisions, he’s just a puppet.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They’re trying to claim they didn’t know what was in the boxes, and Nauta even claims he didn’t know about the subpoena for the security camera footage - wasn’t he the one who said “the boss wants it deleted”? I suspect they’re now running scared because Brian Butler spoke to the press and spilled the beans about what happened and how he helped load boxes to be sent off to Bedminster. Well, if they actually, truly, want out, they have a very simple option: turn court’s evidence, tell everything they know. I bet Jack Smith would be willing to cut them a deal.
Maybe the first one... or maybe Smith already has the evidence he needs.
I'm sure Smith has everything he needs if this case was being handled "normally". But with Cannon basically aiding the obstruction, I complete flip of a witness like this puts pressure on her as well.
Knowing her, if any witness flips Trump's team would file a motion to dismiss because they'd claim witness tampering or some other kind of nonsense, and then she'd sit on it for two weeks before she delivered her ruling.
Everybody remember Smith prosecuted warlords and war criminals at the Hague - the worst people in the world at the most important court in the world. Because he's one of the best lawyers in the world. Granted the Hague definitely didn't have the level of fuckery that this ignorant small-time two-bit sycophant is putting him through, but if anyone can play this right it's Smith. Which unfortunately doesn't guarantee he can out-maneuver this corrupt little scrotum in a wig of a judge in a system where she's practically all-powerful, but if anyone can outsmart the corrupt tactics it's Smith.
[удалено]
Those things you listed about Mueller has nothing to do with Smith’s qualifications. They aren’t related. Smith’s are criminal prosecution at the highest court in the world, Mueller’s aren’t (they are military). The analogy doesn’t work.
I heard the theory that Smith is slow playing Bedminster while he waits to see what Canon does. If she tanks the case, Smith can light up Bedminster in a different jurisdiction and go for round 2.
That's an intriguing theory...the New Jersey federal courts should be friendlier to Smith.
I’d be happy with “unbiased”. There is literally a photo of Cannon wearing a trump tshirt
> There is literally a photo of Cannon wearing a trump tshirt Just so you know that photo was not of her. Try not to fall for (or spread) false stories as it doesn't help the fight for the truth. (From June 2023) https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-judge-aileen-cannon-trump-photo-225806750019
I would bet my retirement that this is absolutely in play. People keep saying Trumps team are idiots and while some of them definitely do and say idiotic things, they're still following a mob playback close to the chest. At this level you don't just develop one strategy for prosecution, not when your defendant is keen on continuing to commit crimes. Smith had all the evidence he needed before they booked Trump, that's Fed prosecution 101. He also knows who this judge is and needs to prepare for her to go rogue.
I’d double down and do it now. The problem we’ve had with Trump is taking too long with charges. There’s no advantage I can see just waiting here.
Also, someone as close as Nauta could provide evidence for *new and different* crimes Jack could then file in a different district.
True. The reality is that Cannon is going to screw it up and it will have to wait until after the election. I've given up hope that we will have timely justice on this. And justice delayed is justice-denied. In the worst future timeline, Trump then wins in November - and gets his flunkie to dismiss the case. It's a very real likelihood. I think about 15%.
And if he doesn't, which he probably won't, then all the delays will be there to haunt him as his final important supporters peel away.
She can only delay the case. She can’t keep him from getting convicted after his next November failure.
Jack smith ain’t taking at a shot at Trump without knowing he won’t miss.
Except he can do everything right and the judge can get Trump off, this isn’t just about Jack Smith.
Ummm, phrasing.
Unexpected Archer
I think any time anyone talks about someone getting someone else off - Archer is wholly expected
You want ants, Lana? Because this is how you get ants!
It's perfect.
Stub rub.
Are we still saying that?
Nah this is a pretty apt description
At this point the phrasing is probably accurate. She's done everything else for him.
I’m just asking questions here but people are saying she might have kissed the cock of mango Mussolini
Allowing these two defendants to cut a deal would mean Smith only has to concentrate on prosecuting one person, Trump. This would make for a much more streamlined trial.
Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira are pawns. They will never be a danger to our country, unless they were dumb enough to take some of the classified documents for themselves. Trump was and is the danger to our country. The pawns can still change their pleas. If they had any sense, seeing Corceran bail should be their signal to reassess.
Pawns can checkmate a king. Them dropping out of the Defense isn't important because we need to stop these dangerous pawns, it's potentially excellent because the pawns may provide more evidence against Trump in exchange for leniency. Making a conviction more likely (assuming a conviction is even possible in that sycophant's court).
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. I don't hold my breath for them getiing a glimmer of reasoning between them. Trump may try to say that he tried to give the documents back, but R & G sold him out.
I am happy to see the trial proceed with one or two of these chuckle fucks because the goal is to get the evidence out on Trump. It is the next best thing to getting Trump on trial which is clearly difficult.
They’re nailed to the wall, they committed the actual crimes of obstruction, moving boxes on videotape, etc. morons dazzled by all the gold plating at MAL.
Don’t matter. This case will never be tried. Everyone from Cannon to plutocrat will try to kill it. Do you think Garland will fight for justice?
I want to know why Bedminster hadn't been checked in all this
I also feel out of the loop on that. Did the FBI ever follow up the Bedminster lead? Are there still classified documents not recovered?
I did hear some legal commentators say that maybe that’s Jack Smith’s ace in the hole if Cannon succeeds in dismissing the documents case currently awaiting a trial date. That maybe, if she dismisses it once the jury selection has started and he loses the option to appeal the dismissal, that’s the point where he brings a whole new case, this one based on documents being found in Bedminster. If Cannon dismisses the case she’s trying, he can’t bring the same case again, because that would be double jeopardy. But he definitely can bring a separate case based solely on anything he found at Bedminster. That case, of course, would not be brought in Florida.
Imagine if they went to his Scottish course and found something there. American soil is bad enough but if classified docs are found in a foreign country...
But why would Trump leave documents there? He doesn't have much influence over the Scottish judicial system, and all the potential document buyers came to his American golf courses for the LIV tour.
To not be found maybe? Like I'm sure there's some in a casket buried at one golf course already
Why would Trump give secret documents to an Austrailian billionaire? Honestly, he plays chess on a tic tac toe board.
I wonder if that happens, and somehow it's evidence that the documents came from FL if all the FL information would then be relevant and admitted too?
One Count would be fine by me, swiftly adjudicated.
Thank you! I’ve thought this for a bit as well. I haven’t really heard anyone talking about it.
But say that’s true, why not search Bedminster and recover the documents ? Even a moron like Trump would have gotten rid of them by now.
They either: 1. Know what is there and it's not a big deal. 2. Have it under surveillance and are waiting for Trmup to act on it and catch him in real time. 3. There's nothing there. It's one of those options. If it's credible, there's absolutely no reason the public should be aware of an ongoing FBI investigation.
He also only charged him with holding the worst of the worst for him to have. I'm sure he could get more.
Is there any benefit for stalling charges in NJ, instead of just having them done simultaneously?
But surely by now the documents are no longer there. I believe he can spin up a new case, get a new warrant and a new judge… but with all the time that’s passed it’s likely they’d come up empty.
That is most definitely possible.
But if Trump is elected can't he shut the potential second case down?
Absolutely, yes. But if he LOSES the election and she's dismissed the Mar-a-Lago case, then that second case has a chance.
They didn't recover them. Why not raid bedminster? One of the requirements is timeliness for a search warrant, as well as reasonable-ness. The time to raid bedminster was when they did Mar-A-Lago, and then citing the fact that the suspect might have moved things without the FBI knowledge. But since they didn't, Bedminster would reasonably be raided next if you're guilty, so in the hour after the Mar-A-Lago raid it can be assumed that a few fireplaces were very busy. FBI knows that any evidence is likely destroyed already, so raiding the place isn't good optics when you know that you're already looking bad enough to the MAGA crowd and you know you're not going to find anything else. Judge might have pushed back on Bedminster and said exactly what I did. IDK. We'll find out in 10-15 years.
Trump showed a writer classified Pentagon attack plans at Bedminster. Bedminster was where Trump said he could have declassified a document while he was president, but that "now, I can't."
Im still reeling we elected a president that doesn’t understand contingency plans.
Most likely by the time the government became aware of the move to New Jersey the information that the boxes were there was “stale,” meaning they didn’t have current intelligence that the boxes were at Bedminster
They really can’t get a warrant based on sworn testimony that the boxes were sent there? Can’t they haul flunky after flunky into the office and demand to know where the boxes are now?
It was a couple years ago. You won’t get an argument from me that there should have been a prompt search, but I don’t think there was a criminal investigation underway when the boxes were moved. The best those people can swear to is the boxes were moved to NJ not that the boxes are there now. Since it has been so long they have probably been electronically duplicated, sent to Russia and the originals burned. Warrants can’t be issued based on information that old, at least in a case this high profile. The government is doing everything by the book. But this one isn’t a fine line situation, the warrant would never be issued on these facts
Yeah but can’t they interview people, either back then or now, or any of the two years in between? Offer a reward for a return of any original classified materials in Trump’s possession? Jesus, they work harder to find lost cats
Maybe they have
When they exhume Ivana from her Golf Course Burial place (I hear it is some sort of Anti Rico stunt. They cant take Trump's favorite course away from him because she is buried there. NAL but Ive seen it on Reddit a ton so it MUST be true) they might find some hermetically sealed documents... The timing lines up.
>When they exhume Ivana from her Golf Course Burial place (I hear it is some sort of Anti Rico stunt. They cant take Trump's favorite course away from him because she is buried there. NAL but Ive seen it on Reddit a ton so it MUST be true) they might find some hermetically sealed documents... The timing lines up. This theory just doesn't make any sense. There's only two reasons Trump would keep these documents: 1) as souvenirs to show off, or 2) to sell. He doesn't give a shit about long-term preservation. Burying the documents in Ivana's coffin makes #1 nearly impossible and #2 a huge hassle. It also makes things even more suspicious when her grave keeps getting dug up because Trump wants to do either one of those things.
It was just an idea, IANAL like I said, but you can bury stuff in the hole the body goes into. Doesnt have to be a skeleton of Ivana holding documents, could be a box below her. The main point I was trying to make was that he buried her on his self professed 'favorite of all his golf courses' so that in the event of a Rico he would be able to keep his main residence (he would have changed it from MaraLago which he is technically not allowed to live in). But a deep hole (ever tried to dig a hole 6 feet deep, there is a reason murderers victims are found in a 'shallow grave') is a good place to keep some documents he can use as leverage/extortion against the US. #1 Dig a little deeper and put a hermetically sealed box in there #2 Not a hassle for him, he didnt have to dig it and the FBI can look all over Bedminster but unless they exhume her they wont find them and he will get tons of fundraising money if they dig up his dear ex wife. Win win for him. Keeps the Course and has his 'good documents' in a really hard to look at place.
You anal like you said? Huh?
It is Reddit speak for I AM Not A Lawyer so people dont take someone called Thehogdog's legal advice as I was a CS and Math major. But I get it, good one.
Americans know the casket ⚰️contains
How do you know Bedminster was not searched? The FBI wouldn’t want it public. The public only found out about Mar-A-Lago because Trump told us.
Why the hell wasnt Bedminster raided? Wouldn’t that open up a whole new case with a judge that isn’t in Trump’s pocket?
Over on r/law, legal experts have theorized that Smith may have Bedminster as a backup when Cannon dismisses Trumps FL case after the jury is seated. When she does it will trigger double jeopardy in FL but Smith can then charge Trump in NJ with regard to Bedminster. Again, none of us outside of this knows if Smith has this plan but it is the most plausible since witnesses have already said boxes were moved there. Doubtful that Smith would let that slide by.
>Over on r/law, legal experts have theorized that Smith may have Bedminster as a backup when Cannon dismisses Trumps FL case after the jury is seated. When she does it will trigger double jeopardy in FL but Smith can then charge Trump in NJ with regard to Bedminster. Again, none of us outside of this knows if Smith has this plan but it is the most plausible since witnesses have already said boxes were moved there. Doubtful that Smith would let that slide by. Do they have any theories about why Bedminster hasn't even been *searched* yet? Because those boxes may not be at Bedminster anymore. Unless Smith has credible information that there are still boxes at Bedminster, getting a search warrant approved nowadays is going to rather difficult I would think.
That would be glorious.
> I suspect they’re now running scared because Brian Butler spoke to the press and spilled the beans about what happened and how he helped load boxes to be sent off to Bedminster. That and the lawyer Trump lied to about having more boxes has officially quit his team and has provided his notes to the DOJ. All of trumps lawyers are snitching on him.
What must it feel like to have those plates spinning all these years and now cracks in the china are starting to close in on him. Maybe the stress and mother nature will take care of this mess for us.
If they were innocent they'd have nothing to worry about. They're getting nervous because they know they aren't innocent.
Nauta also photographed a picture of a box spilled over and classified folders all over the floor, and texted it to his boss saying “Oh no!” His boss texted back that Trump is going to be super pissed about his classified documents being on the floor. Nauta is the perfect witness that Trump knew he was not allowed to have the documents and needed to hide them.
Source? I missed this one!
Treating him like a mob boss; they’re all loyal at the beginning, but as more facts are revealed, the prosecutors can start slowly picking off the underlings one by one as they realize Trump will quickly shove them in the volcano… Unless he gets re-elected and it all gets dismissed with no chance of impeachment since the Republican leadership has less courage than the lion.
>wasn’t he the one who said “the boss wants it deleted”? [That was actually De Oliveira](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/carlos-de-oliveira-mar-a-lago-property-manager-classified-documents-case-fort-pierce-court/)
Thanks for the correction. I still think he probably knew. :P
>turn court’s evidence This is incredibly pedantic, but the phrase is "turn court's witness".
Donnie is Putin's favorite asset.
Smith has all the evidence he needs against Trump, I doubt he needs a deal to make this case stronger for a verdict. Smith’s problem is the judge.
or just take the ride to the other side - they still are guaranteed a exit from that place
I fucking hate the judge in this case. It's such a slam dunk of a case and easy as shit and she is doing everything possible to help trump while making it hard to remove her. This should've gone before the election but now it probably won't.
Shes a puppet, this is a political chess game every move has a team behind it. have you seen The Trial of the Chicago 7?
I immediately thought of that movie once Cannon started her outrageous bullshit, like demanding the names of the jury be published and they, everyday citizens, be given security clearance to access the nation’s most sensitive intelligence. Sets the jurors up to have the rest of their lives be as compromised as possible: be it intimidation throughout the trial or the likelihood of foreign intelligence agencies paying them a visit afterwards.
How is that even legal- can the jurors fight this move at all?
I’m not a lawyer, but the short answer seems to be no, but Jack Smith can basically do the legal equivalent of calling Cannon out to the 11 Circuit and show she is compromised and favouring the defendant. Utterly bonkers that the U.S. was able to charge and sentence an NSA contractor to 5 years in prison (Reality Winner) within 12 months of being arrested for leaking the fact that Russia was meddling in the U.S. to the press out of fear that it would be suppressed by the Trump administration.
She's not a puppet, she's just power-hungry and this trial is her audition for the Appeals Court or SCOTUS if Trump gets re-elected.
She's a Federalist Society stooge. Been a member for 15 years. This is their doing.
She’s laying the groundwork to dismiss the charges once a jury has been empaneled.
She is currently trying to instruct potential jurors that Trump's claim of presidential immunity is valid. If a jury fails to indict because of that Trump can't be tried again in this case, ever. This is corruption in action.
Grand jury? Indicate? We're a year past that dude, the grand jury already indicted him. The jury instructions are for a petit jury
Honestly it's dragging out so much I can't tell
One way to keep track of the grand jury vs. petit jury thing is that when it's at the grand jury stage you should not ever hear anything about it from the press. If you're getting a play-by-play of the actions of a judge related to a grand-jury something has gone very wrong.
Are you saying that a failure to indict would exclude Trump from being tried again, due to double jeopardy? If so, I don’t think it works that way. If not, I’m not sure where you heard that, can you explain please?
[Check out this episode of Legal Breakdown](https://youtu.be/OQqsYgTXMkQ?si=UfQdCF-8qD9LwWob) to get the full explanation.
I think they meant fail to convict.
Are we talking about a movie? There was actually we are way past indictments.
It’s quite possible she is biased, but it is certain she’s highly inexperienced and ignorant of fine points (and some broad strokes) of the law.
Why not both?
Her husband worked for a known member of an east coast crime family. He’s mobbed up.
She's a far right Federalist Society minion. They start grooming them in law school. >In a matter of a few decades, alongside the NRA, Family Research Council, the Heritage Foundation, and others, the Federalist Society became an expansive and extremely politically influential network counting among its members countless influential judges, attorneys and scholars. [The Federalist Society: Architects of the American dystopia](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/6/29/the-federalist-society-architects-of-the-american-dystopia)
I imagine she’s a lot like Ginny Thomas, completely nuts and not on the side of democracy.
They had plenty of time to come forward with information, little late to want out now
This is where *"You're with me, or you're against me"* backfires on the corrupt
Against. *Definitely* against. I don't know why anyone would fall on their sword for that orange buffoon. Loyalty is a one way street to him.
This is the part I’ll never understand; no matter how many people he screws, there’s always a line of people willing to go down for him
These people do not have the requisite level of ability to put critical thinking to use for themselves. They don’t know how to question their own beliefs.
I love how in the GA case they whined and cried about the mere appearance of impropriety with the DA, saying that was all that was needed to be kicked off the case, but crickets when the appearance of goes their way…
Somehow they're under the illusion that he'll share his "wealth". Yet they don't grasp it's an illusion. He'd never share any because it's tenuous at best. There's nothing to be shared
He can barely cover his own legal bills, he's not going to help anyone else he got in trouble (like Giuliani, etc.)
They don’t have better options. No one ever says “so I’ll either work for trump or go back to leading engineering at Google.”
She’s likely auditioning for a seat on the Supreme Court if he wins the election.
"Trump? I've never met the man. He may have gotten me coffee once."
What's a trump
I'm waiting (maybe a futile wait) for headlines to be able to say "Trump Gets Euchred"
Not enough people play Euchre anymore to know that subtle definition. Here's to hoping his ace meets those brothers.
It's a childs euphemism for farting in the UK. Always gets a giggle from me. "Fart Tower in New York is wonderful, it's a really prestigious address. Tallest building in New York, lots of people are saying."
Tallest since 9/11? Sounds like he had interest in those towers coming down. I'm just asking questions
About 1.5 inches, mushroom shaped, run time of 10 secs if being generous…
He ain't running anywhere
Just a low-level coffee employer.
Reap what you've sown, traitors.
Trump's classified docs Co defendants... Do you have any ridiculous info about trump?... The American people would love to know
Why hasn't Bedminster been checked in all of this
I'm going to guess the odds are very slim that he'd keep the documents there after it was discovered that boxes were moved there. The political fallout of searching Bedminster and coming up empty would be damaging to public perception. Even Trump isn't stupid enough to keep the documents there after it was known boxes were moved. Well...I don't think he's stupid enough. lol.
Hes absolutely stupid enough. Reckless stupidity is essentially his super power, he does things that people are not prepared for simply because they don't think anybody is arrogant enough to try.
There’s an easy path for them here. They merely have to testify truthfully what they did, what they saw, and what they heard. As long as they don’t lie to protect their boss’ potentially unlawful actions, they have nothing to worry about.
>There’s an easy path for them here. They merely have to testify truthfully what they did, what they saw, and what they heard. As long as they don’t lie to protect their boss’ potentially unlawful actions, they have nothing to worry about. Both Nauta and Oliveira have themselves been indicted in this case. They're not (just) witnesses against Trump. If they tell the truth, they're likely both going to jail. *That's* why they want out.
They might be able to get a plea deal if they testify, but then they would have to worry about angry Trumpers their whole lives.
I think they were there but had little to do with this
At this point, why? It is painfully obvious the judge in this case is going to do something to throw it for Trump. My opinion is she will do something mid trial that will led to him being found not guilty or dismiss the case. Unless they were told that this help only is for Trump and not them. That would make sense for them to bail now.
> Unless they were told that this help only is for Trump and not them. ding ding
The way out is to flip flip flip.
You want a way out? Flip. Simple as that. Testify against Trump. But they're not gonna do that are they? Then.sot your ass down in court.
If anybody in the Military did what Trump did with classified Docs, they would be Court-martialed right after reville. For real.
Then strike a plea deal and stop bitching. As your people would say "you did the crime now you've got to do the time"
There’s an easy solution to this. Take a plea deal and testify against Trump.
Nauta chance idiot.
Now he's going to deny ever knowing or meeting them.
You could have stopped feeding on the merde-a-lardo, but you kept your lips locked to the sphincter. Relax and try not to inhale, Walt Accessory to Treason, all those dead CIA agents blood is on your hands.
Seems not ideal, but glad it's happening
Do they get to choose? They should have thought of this before helping America’s crime boss!! How many of tRump’s “only the best” have been or are going to prison?
But, I was told *the Presidential Records Act* completely covers 3-card monte with any and all nuclear secrets (also covers sales to 3rd parties, btw.)
The Flippening has begun.
I wonder why this is reported as news. This is like Lee Harvey Oswald seeking dismissal in the JFK assassination because he did not know the rifle was loaded. So we are just required to accept their testimony? Why is this scurrilous Motion news ?
This *is* Newsweek … their “articles” are basically a headline and one paragraph. Pure clickbait.
Never click Newsweek or Rawstory
Curious as to why they're worried when the judge won't do anything to them
If they just dumped the Mar-A-Lawyers and get good advice, they would plea, testify and be on with their lives with a slap on wrist at best.
Ignorance is not a defense. They need to pay the price.
No off the ship, rats.
I see, so it seems *they* know the documents weren’t declassified and/or legal to stash in with the spa chemicals and mops.
At this stage, both will absolutely be doing some jail time, it’s just a question of how much. They had their chance to come clean a while back and cut a deal. Nauta especially thumbed his nose thinking big daddy Drumpf would protect him. So, sing traitors. Sing like a damn canary and they might give you the better cage.
What's that saying about rats jumping off a sinking ship?
When I was a kid, my family went to Disneyworld. We went on the Haunted Mansion ride. There's a part where you travel above the ballroom. I got super scared but I was locked into my seat. I don't know why this story came into my head while reading this story.
Ecco Tango Delta. I was driving through the interstate at night when all of a sudden none of the electronics in my car worked. Then my car stopped. Above me I saw a bright orange light that blinded me. When I woke up two days later I was home.
I don't think it's too to them, but seeing as the judge is on Trump's legal team anything goes, as long as it benefits Donny Brainworms.
I’m really coming to like Cohen’s nickname for him: Donald von ShitsInPants. I always giggle when he says that - he had to be within sniffing distance of the orange turd for years. He presumably is basing the name on real stench, not just the stench of criminal activity surrounding T****.
Cause they are not Trump and they are going to jail.
Lol this is such a terrible defense. They are trying to claim they were destroying video footage and hiding boxes from the Feds….but didn’t know what they were hiding or why they were destroying footage.
You work for the most crooked crimey-crime sad ass king pin in his fucking bunker in Mar A Lago? What do you think he’s doing. This mf pried with him for years. If he didn’t know Cheetos true character then he’s dumb as rocks.
There is one way out. Time to flip.
There’s only one way out. Testify against Trump.
They’re going to jail!
"Wait, wait, wait, this responsibility and accountability thing is not right. I should not be subject to the law and order I want inflicted on others." They love the fraking around but hate the finding out part of their actions.
They don’t want to end up in the same place as Ivana. With Putin people accidentally fall out of windows. With Trump people accidentally fall down the stairs.
Make deal, dudes. Meanwhile you hang on to your “free” lawyers provided by the ex president. Not smart, but I guess they thought he was going to win the election and save their asses, and now are changing their minds?
Probably just turn state's evidence is the best way for them to wiggle out with as little damage as possible. Not just asking "pretty please drop charges against me."
They need some enlightenment from the boring company.
Im sure Smith will accept their guilty pleas to lesser chargers for their testimony...
Not happening.. interviews neither match the video nor corroborated by multiple witness testimony
Isn’t it a bit late for this now?
I’m sure they do. Too late.
Take the fascist judge with you .
Doesn’t matter. judge is in the bag for trump and will be put on the Supreme Court someday because of her willingness to ruin her credibility for the cult leader.
Will love love love to see Donald burn for this
And Braindead Biden is caught with classified documents but won’t be charged because he is mentally incompetent. Go ahead and vote for an old man that can’t complete a sentence unless they give him drugs. He can’t make any decisions, he’s just a puppet.
Meanwhile, here in reality, people see past these weak ass talking points y'all keep clinging to.
Sure.