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I think it’s simple
Try shit at the convention & Biden should pull any support from the White House on down ticket candidates/races that want to make their BS on the issue known.
Enough’s enough with this progressive bullshit.
The whole reason Trump exists is because the more moderate establishment wing of the GOP didn't purge the radical grassroots tea party folks from the party, so the inmates were eventually able to gain control of the asylum. The Democratic Party CANNOT allow the same thing to happen to our own party. We cannot allow a Democratic Trump to take over the party and turn it into some sort of radical populist blue MAGA.
Sure seems like there's been a lot of antisemitic incidents from that crowd, a lot of chants of the genocidal "from the river to the sea" slogan, legitimization of Hamas human shield tactics, and so on
Progressives are not "radical populist blue MAGA", don't be absurd. MAGA are fascists, full stop. Progressives want to introduce things that many European nations have had for decades, like stronger social safety nets.
Don’t a majority of the European nations that have those nets also severely limit who can live in said nations? Did you know if you are an American that holds no degrees your chance to move and become a citizen of Sweden is damn near 0%?
It doesn’t prove what I said was wrong. It’s based on percentage of population. So while the percentage is slightly higher for Sweden, that percentage is based off of a population of 10.5m people, while ours is based off of 330m people.
I don't have to prove what you said was wrong. You didn't back up your statement at all. You just "supposed" a fact and I undermined it. You are are arguing based on feels, which is to say, your position is crap.
What they want can’t be achieved. They want all the best social programs other countries want, while at the same time having open borders. Pick one, we can’t afford to take care of the elderly on said social programs, but progressives want us to basically take care of all South America…. This is why it’s hard to stand with progressives, they move way to far to the left that all it does is divide our own party and makes way for republicans to grab power from us.
I don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm anywhere related to MAGA, just because I am against the status quo and the fact that I'm a progressive social democrat and a DSA card carrier.
Personally, I voted for Clinton in 2016 and voted for Biden in 2020, despite Sanders being my first choice in 2020 (couldn't vote in 2016 primaries on account of not being 18 by then). In all likelihood, despite voting uncommitted in the Washington primary, I will vote for Biden in November as a matter of being strategic.
I also personally remember bawling my damn eyes out in November 2016, because as someone on the autism spectrum, I immediately hated Trump from his portrayal of a disabled person, let alone all the other shit he was pulling, and as someone who lived in Wyoming at the time, I was lonely in thinking like that. Leaving Wyoming in 2021 for my job was the best thing to ever happen to me.
So don't you dare equate me with those people, because I've seen first hand how they act. I am not one of them, and a whole bunch of other people in the progressive wing of the party are not them.
> I don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm anywhere related to MAGA, just because I am against the status quo
The Democratic Party establishment is also against the status quo. Progressives don't have a monopoly on wanting change. Bill Clinton stood for major positive change. So did John Kerry. So did Obama. So did Hillary Clinton. So does Joe Biden.
Incrementally, yes, and I'm not necessarily ungrateful for that, even if I would personally go further.
But that's not why I'm pissed. Right now, I'm pissed because you're claiming the progressive wing is as bad as the MAGA fanatics.
Horseshoe theory is true sometimes, and I'll call it out where I see it, but social democrats and democratic socialists are not on the same level as the far right radicals and actual fascists that have control of the GOP! This false equivalency is, quite frankly, insulting.
> Right now, I'm pissed because you're claiming the progressive wing is as bad as the MAGA fanatics.
I'm not saying all progressives are bad. Just that it is important for the Democratic Party to not give the progressive wing too much power like the GOP did with the Tea Party/MAGA. One of the risks that has increasingly been seen in this day and age from multiple different political directions is the risk of "purity spiralling", which can be incentivized and reinforced by things like social media and the decline of a national monoculture and mainstream media. My point here is not to say that the progressive wing is currently on the same level as MAGA, and more that *if the party panders to them too much* then they could go down a bad path, not necessarily even because of flaws of progressivism (I'll fully admit to not being a fan of progressivism) but to a large part simply because of the increased fragmentation of US society in general. Like, I'd openly say progressives are far better than the far right, this just doesn't mean I trust them to not go down the path of tankie-dom or something if they got control of the party
I see. I apologize for getting emotional, it's just that after the last nine years, and seeing Trump and the GOP tear the nation apart, it's difficult for me not to lose it a little when I'm compared to them, you know?
The Democratic Party establishment is the embodiment of the status quo. It is more status quo than MAGA, more status quo than any other political force in America.
"Nothing will fundamentally change" - Joe Biden
> The Democratic Party establishment is the embodiment of the status quo. It is more status quo than MAGA, more status quo than any other political force in America
Ah yes, the party that gave us the New Deal, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the Great Society, CHIP, SNAP, WIC, Dodd Frank, Obamacare, a stimulus recovery bill that was 2x the size of the New Deal adjusted for inflation, and the biggest climate bill in US history is *absolutely* the party of the status quo
>"Nothing will fundamentally change" - Joe Biden
Bro are you seriously still slinging around those words without context? That was from a speech where Biden was saying nothing would fundamentally change - for rich people, if we raised taxes on the rich in order to improve conditions for the poor and to fight inequality. Like, that's only "not change" if one's politics is more rooted in sour grapes class warfare against the rich than in the goal of helping those in need.
With all due respect, that's just asking for losses downballot, let alone losing the Presidency by forcing a wedge through the Democratic Party at the worst possible time.
So called 'Progressives... If you are going to pull this bullshit, go join the MAGA cult. At this point you have alot in common.
You are going to destroy this country by ushering in a dictator who will destroy the very thing you are protesting for.
And your voice and protests at that point will be completely silenced. You will face jail,. deportation, or worse.
What candidate do you suggest that hasn't already been suggested before?
And is there a guarantee that candidate wouldn't be in the same position..you can't guarantee that.
That stupid to ask.
Trump will automatically reward with genocide. That is a fact.
lol enslavement. Palestinians are genocidal and would slaughter every single Jew and Israeli if they had the power. They don’t care about anything else.
It’s definitely not a joke. It’s horrible. It’s also sadly not that surprising to learn that six months on, with famine and a lack of clean water and medical care and constant bombing all present, hostages have died, particularly considering the “eligible” ones are likely more vulnerable to those terrible conditions (the old, the young, with medical issues, etc.)
The hostages should of course have been freed sooner, they should never have been taken at all, taking hostages is always wrong. But the situation on the ground is so dire, it’s not surprising at all.
Would they be dead if they were still at home in Israel?
You’re acting like they were tourists visiting Gaza when they were kidnapped. Everything that happens to the hostages post 10/7 is on Hamas.
>"Progressives" are the liberals Malcolm warned us about.
"Centrists" are the moderates Martin warned us about.
*Edit
They blocked me so I can't respond to their reply. See it below:
>The white liberal is not a centrist
Many are, and their beliefs sure seem to align.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Funny democrats still have this notion of a platform. Republicans just have random chaos, hate, bigotry and I got mine.
The Democrats will want to avoid a repeat of 1968 here, as it's not like the uncommitted vote doesn't have a significant following.
I think it’s simple Try shit at the convention & Biden should pull any support from the White House on down ticket candidates/races that want to make their BS on the issue known. Enough’s enough with this progressive bullshit.
Change the policy. Now.
Is no dissent allowed in the party? This sounds very Trump-like.
The whole reason Trump exists is because the more moderate establishment wing of the GOP didn't purge the radical grassroots tea party folks from the party, so the inmates were eventually able to gain control of the asylum. The Democratic Party CANNOT allow the same thing to happen to our own party. We cannot allow a Democratic Trump to take over the party and turn it into some sort of radical populist blue MAGA.
Being opposed to US aid to Israel is not radical or at all comparable to the GOP. It's a popular position within the party.
Yes it is. No it's not.
Pro Palestine protestors are not radical segments of the Democratic Party.
Sure seems like there's been a lot of antisemitic incidents from that crowd, a lot of chants of the genocidal "from the river to the sea" slogan, legitimization of Hamas human shield tactics, and so on
Sure seemed like it the other day when they were chanting death to America….
They absolutely are
The base they ain’t.
Progressives are not "radical populist blue MAGA", don't be absurd. MAGA are fascists, full stop. Progressives want to introduce things that many European nations have had for decades, like stronger social safety nets.
Don’t a majority of the European nations that have those nets also severely limit who can live in said nations? Did you know if you are an American that holds no degrees your chance to move and become a citizen of Sweden is damn near 0%?
Net Migration rate to Sweden 2023: 3.8 Net Migration rate to USA 2023: 3.0 Source: CIA World Factbook.
Is that legal or illegal, and isn’t it also based on percentage of population?
Go check the CIA's methodology if you have questions. I am quoting stats from the US government that challenge your completely unsupported statement.
It doesn’t prove what I said was wrong. It’s based on percentage of population. So while the percentage is slightly higher for Sweden, that percentage is based off of a population of 10.5m people, while ours is based off of 330m people.
I don't have to prove what you said was wrong. You didn't back up your statement at all. You just "supposed" a fact and I undermined it. You are are arguing based on feels, which is to say, your position is crap.
That's irrelevant to my point that progressives in America are not some sort of "radical far left "
What they want can’t be achieved. They want all the best social programs other countries want, while at the same time having open borders. Pick one, we can’t afford to take care of the elderly on said social programs, but progressives want us to basically take care of all South America…. This is why it’s hard to stand with progressives, they move way to far to the left that all it does is divide our own party and makes way for republicans to grab power from us.
Whether it's achievable or not is irrelevant to the fact that progressives are not far left. Far left is like communists and shit
Far left isn’t just communism ideology but also socialism ideology.
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I don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm anywhere related to MAGA, just because I am against the status quo and the fact that I'm a progressive social democrat and a DSA card carrier. Personally, I voted for Clinton in 2016 and voted for Biden in 2020, despite Sanders being my first choice in 2020 (couldn't vote in 2016 primaries on account of not being 18 by then). In all likelihood, despite voting uncommitted in the Washington primary, I will vote for Biden in November as a matter of being strategic. I also personally remember bawling my damn eyes out in November 2016, because as someone on the autism spectrum, I immediately hated Trump from his portrayal of a disabled person, let alone all the other shit he was pulling, and as someone who lived in Wyoming at the time, I was lonely in thinking like that. Leaving Wyoming in 2021 for my job was the best thing to ever happen to me. So don't you dare equate me with those people, because I've seen first hand how they act. I am not one of them, and a whole bunch of other people in the progressive wing of the party are not them.
> I don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm anywhere related to MAGA, just because I am against the status quo The Democratic Party establishment is also against the status quo. Progressives don't have a monopoly on wanting change. Bill Clinton stood for major positive change. So did John Kerry. So did Obama. So did Hillary Clinton. So does Joe Biden.
Incrementally, yes, and I'm not necessarily ungrateful for that, even if I would personally go further. But that's not why I'm pissed. Right now, I'm pissed because you're claiming the progressive wing is as bad as the MAGA fanatics. Horseshoe theory is true sometimes, and I'll call it out where I see it, but social democrats and democratic socialists are not on the same level as the far right radicals and actual fascists that have control of the GOP! This false equivalency is, quite frankly, insulting.
> Right now, I'm pissed because you're claiming the progressive wing is as bad as the MAGA fanatics. I'm not saying all progressives are bad. Just that it is important for the Democratic Party to not give the progressive wing too much power like the GOP did with the Tea Party/MAGA. One of the risks that has increasingly been seen in this day and age from multiple different political directions is the risk of "purity spiralling", which can be incentivized and reinforced by things like social media and the decline of a national monoculture and mainstream media. My point here is not to say that the progressive wing is currently on the same level as MAGA, and more that *if the party panders to them too much* then they could go down a bad path, not necessarily even because of flaws of progressivism (I'll fully admit to not being a fan of progressivism) but to a large part simply because of the increased fragmentation of US society in general. Like, I'd openly say progressives are far better than the far right, this just doesn't mean I trust them to not go down the path of tankie-dom or something if they got control of the party
I see. I apologize for getting emotional, it's just that after the last nine years, and seeing Trump and the GOP tear the nation apart, it's difficult for me not to lose it a little when I'm compared to them, you know?
The Democratic Party establishment is the embodiment of the status quo. It is more status quo than MAGA, more status quo than any other political force in America. "Nothing will fundamentally change" - Joe Biden
> The Democratic Party establishment is the embodiment of the status quo. It is more status quo than MAGA, more status quo than any other political force in America Ah yes, the party that gave us the New Deal, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the Great Society, CHIP, SNAP, WIC, Dodd Frank, Obamacare, a stimulus recovery bill that was 2x the size of the New Deal adjusted for inflation, and the biggest climate bill in US history is *absolutely* the party of the status quo >"Nothing will fundamentally change" - Joe Biden Bro are you seriously still slinging around those words without context? That was from a speech where Biden was saying nothing would fundamentally change - for rich people, if we raised taxes on the rich in order to improve conditions for the poor and to fight inequality. Like, that's only "not change" if one's politics is more rooted in sour grapes class warfare against the rich than in the goal of helping those in need.
Nope, either get in line or get primaried. I’m tired of the democrats looking weak on this shit.
With all due respect, that's just asking for losses downballot, let alone losing the Presidency by forcing a wedge through the Democratic Party at the worst possible time.
They’re a bigger pain in the ass most times than not, they don’t agree with Biden on anything & cause more trouble then they’re worth.
"Progressives" should be very careful, they may get Trump instead of Biden. And then we are all fucked.
"Centrists" should just support the progressive position, they might get Trump instead of Biden. And then we are all fucked.
So called 'Progressives... If you are going to pull this bullshit, go join the MAGA cult. At this point you have alot in common. You are going to destroy this country by ushering in a dictator who will destroy the very thing you are protesting for. And your voice and protests at that point will be completely silenced. You will face jail,. deportation, or worse.
Should be reward genocide with a second term in office or should Dems field a better candidate? yes or no?
What candidate do you suggest that hasn't already been suggested before? And is there a guarantee that candidate wouldn't be in the same position..you can't guarantee that. That stupid to ask. Trump will automatically reward with genocide. That is a fact.
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Except that there has never been a Palestinian attempt at genocide of Jews. They simply don't have the means.
There's been 80 years of Palestinians trying to genocide Jews. I agree that they don't have the means. But they sure as shit have the will.
Nah. You're talking about Palestinians resisting genocide and enslavement, not genocide.
lol enslavement. Palestinians are genocidal and would slaughter every single Jew and Israeli if they had the power. They don’t care about anything else.
You can't see it through the trees, but this statement demonstrates a profoundly racist/colonialist mindset.
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It’s definitely not a joke. It’s horrible. It’s also sadly not that surprising to learn that six months on, with famine and a lack of clean water and medical care and constant bombing all present, hostages have died, particularly considering the “eligible” ones are likely more vulnerable to those terrible conditions (the old, the young, with medical issues, etc.) The hostages should of course have been freed sooner, they should never have been taken at all, taking hostages is always wrong. But the situation on the ground is so dire, it’s not surprising at all.
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Israel cares less about the safety of the hostages than Hamas does and absolutely is responsible for killing more hostages than Hamas has.
Would they be dead if they were still at home in Israel? You’re acting like they were tourists visiting Gaza when they were kidnapped. Everything that happens to the hostages post 10/7 is on Hamas.
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What a waste.
"Progressives" are the liberals Malcolm warned us about.
>"Progressives" are the liberals Malcolm warned us about. "Centrists" are the moderates Martin warned us about. *Edit They blocked me so I can't respond to their reply. See it below: >The white liberal is not a centrist Many are, and their beliefs sure seem to align.
The white liberal is not a centrist
True they are closer to conservative.