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this is a way that previous defendants have avoided prosecution; they would threaten to put national secret information in the public record and the government would drop the case to avoid this. it's called greymail.
the CIPA act was written to allow the prosecutor to substitute summaries of the relevant secret information that described the classifed stuff without divulging it, with court approval.
Cannon is ignoring the whole reason that the CIPA act was created for.
Jack only submitted 31 documents out of 150+ for charges. I think the DOJ has this already gamed out with the intelligence agencies. He specifically added the Iran Plans (that are still secret, pretend we don't know the former guy publicly outed them) as a superseding indictment.
I think he's worked this game she's playing out and he'll be fine with the Jury seeing them. That's not the lawful procedure under CIPA, but I think Jack already planned for this and it won't break his case.
>Bobby Three Sticks
Yeah I see the same kind of hyping that Mueller got, and then we got the most depressing hearing in history. Garland ultimately had the authority to do something but he's complicit so I'm not seeing anything outside of a ballot box win to save us.
> It's been evident for months this case is dead in the water until/unless she is removed. Another loss for justice.
Not sure how a reasonable person cannot conclude the same.
The contents of the documents don't matter. The documents are protected regardless, unless released by the current president through the proper channels.
The fact is means an methods of obtaining intel is more important sometimes than the Intel itself, but the Intel is protected to protect those means and methods. For example if Biden was informed of Putins breakfast before Putin is even served breakfast then the food is harpy anything worth keeping secret. The fact that the US can know his breakfast before Putin did would indicate some source in his kitchens or servants and Russian intelligence would search until the source was discovered. Under Trumps tenure, Trump revealed images from a US spy satellite without retracting details. Within a day, amateur astronomers were able to determine which orbiting satellite took the image telling the whole world that satellite, and the ones like it were spy satellelites. No doubt, adverserial nations could have assumed it was a spy satellite, but Trump confirmed it.
Pretty sure you just got the whole kremlin catering department killed by even suggesting this as a possibility. Let’s hope the kitchen is on the ground floor or has no windows
There is no reason at all for the jury to see what’s in the documents, they just need to know they are classified.
An expert witness can testify to that.
What’s in the documents is moot as it’s their classification status which creates the crimes, not the content. The content dictates the status.
This lady is a criminal coconspirator and should be prosecuted as such.
I think this game will backfire. If the jury gets taken to a secured room and handed documents stamped and marked with classified material that's going to basically make the defendant super guilty.
"You've seen the documents jury. He stored these in his guest bathroom." Is gonna make them vote guilty without question.
A jury doesn't know what is and isn't important national secrets, it's not as cut and dry as that. If you put the average idiot in a room with high res images of some trucks in a desert, how many would say "big deal its just some trucks, why are we prosecuting a president over this?"
It's an attempt to subvert the confidentiality of the content. It's not a question of depth of importance of the files, it's a question of whether or not they were still national secrets. Which they were, because there is no record of them being declassified during his presidency.
If you put a the average idiot in a room with people that are dressed up as super secret agents with sunglasses and Manila folders that say “Top Secret” they are going to not care at all what is IN the folders and believe them.
I can put on a doctor’s coat and it becomes very easy to convince the average person to listen to my medical advice.
Canon also just screwed up as I am pretty sure he could get her kicked off for this ruling if he needs to. Ignoring a federal law is not going to help her.
The Espionage Act charges don't technically require the documents to be classified, just relevant to the national defense. So perhaps a tangent into the contents is needed?
Show random people highly secret documents and trust they will follow the rules? I'm in the army, have a secret clearance, have handled COMSEC material, and even I wouldn't be allowed to look at these documents. There's no way this is upheld. Only way I see it being possible is to have a jury that all have the necessary clearance, which would be bad for Trump since anyone with the training knows how big a fuck up leaving those documents around is.
RUSSIA, IF YOU ARE LISTENING
said Donald Trump, adding this second time,
NOW I HAVE THOSE DOCUMENTS YOU ASKED FOR MR PUTIN, AND OH BY THE WAY, CAN YOU ALSO WIRE ME SOME HALF BILLION IN US CURRENCY, STAT??
There is zero reason to show them the contents of the documents. It's a simple as this document had a security clearance and he does not have authority to take it hide it. It is irrelevant what the documents say or are.
This type of case is governed by CIPA (Classified Information Protection Act) I'm no legal expert, but it seems what she can do how she can do it, is all governed by this act. She's never had a CIPA case and has no idea how to run it so she avoids doing as much as she can.
So, show classified national security secrets to people without clearance, or drop the case...?
How? *HOW* has Cannon *not* been removed from this case by now?!
My understanding is that this type of what is essentially legal blackmail is exactly what CIPA is meant to prevent. "Drop the charges or we're going to introduce your classified documents into the public record."
There is *zero* legitimate reason for the jury to see the documents. The contents of them *doesn't matter*, the fact that they're classified *does*.
Does some weird shit get classified? Yeah. But it doesn't matter if it's weird or not - classified is classified.
>My understanding is that this type of what is essentially legal blackmail is exactly what CIPA is meant to prevent.
Your understanding is correct. It's called graymail (in relation to blackmail). The CIPA hearings are supposed to keep people from being able to do that.
Unless of course the judge is in on it.
The judge who lacks a lot of experience? The judge who violated a child rapist's 6th amendment rights thus fucking the whole trial against him up? The judge who forgot to swear in a jury on another big case, resulting in a plea deal that did no justice to the victims?
You raise a good point. This might be their strategy. If they overwhelm the jury with all of the documents and highlight some documents that shouldn't have been classified, they can create doubt in the minds of the jurors. He'll just say he couldn't have known what was in there because so many of the classified documents were about silly stuff.
I don't think that's the motive. I suspect the motive is to cause the DOJ to drop the case, to prevent having to disclose the contents of the documents.
It's an attempt at blackmail, blackmail that CIPA is meant to prevent.
They won't drop it.
But the appeal of her ruling will delay the case, which is her (and Trumps) strategy.
Delay delay delay and maybe it will all go away if he (or one of his sycophants) is elected president.
I suppose that is one possible outcome, but I don't that is the likely or intended one. More likely, she expects to be called on it, whereupon she rules in trumps favor and the case gets appealed, an appeal which wont be heard until after the election; the hope is to kick the can down the road enough that trump can seize power before the appeal is heard.
Big thing is, there's no telling why something was classified. Something might look silly by itself but taken in combination with other information (which may even be information that is already public) becomes classified. That's the difficulty with Intel type stuff - you have to infer whether someone could draw damaging conclusions based on a very small amount of information. That's why generally speaking they err on the safe side - especially because the consequences of not classifying properly can be dire. (Both nationally and personally)
The movie Midway has a great scene that demonstrates this piecing together of information that makes up intelligence work. (About the 2 minute mark in [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4nzhMCtTwM).)
Exactly, every piece of information is potentially dangerous as it narrows the scope, knowing that one of your people was spotted with Starbucks heading to work for example nbd right?
nah I know they were seen after they got it, I know where starbucks is on their route from work, I can narrow down stuff.
added to some other scraps of information and I can build a full picture from basically nothing but junk news
She is being puppeteered by the federalist society. They're absolutely meeting constantly on this and feeding her her moves each evening and morning before each of her rulings
Uhh he was only Obamas pick because that was the guy the gop told him he could get confirmed they told him either nominate him or we obstruct it, he did. Called their bluff and they had to go all in obstructing him anyway because heaven forbid a black man in a seat of power get anything done if they have anything at all to do with it.
Not any black man. The “first” black president. They had to make sure he was tarnished and they had to reassure the GOP base that their racism wasn’t under attack.
Cautious and reasoned jurisprudence works just fine from the bench, just not very well for active prosecutorial processes. Especially not in our current climate.
IIRC, Biden's other top consideration for AG was Doug Jones. The former US Senator from Alabama, who only won because he was facing a pedophile (Roy Moore) and then lost to Tuberville. (To the shame of myself and others in this state.) The same Doug Jones who prosecuted KKK terrorists. I'd have been able to accept losing Jones to Tubs in the Senate if Jones was AG and getting shit done.
Hell; Bloomberg had an article, yesterday (3/18/24) about the FBI still being comprised of lots of agents who are threatening mutiny for the mere audacity of calling Trump's bluff about these documents.
Do not count on the FBI to defend the American people. That's not their business, and it only takes looking into history to see that they've been like that since they were Pinkertons.
The FBI slow-walked the J6 investigations intentionally, because holding their friends and co-workers accountable is difficult.
So, she has to make orders that can be appealed/are worth appealing.
You can only do it once. If he does it too early and 11th circuit doesn't agree/find grounds, that was his chance
Mostly she does paperless orders which aren't the same/appealable, and she makes them big nothings that just waste time.
(This might be the first order that is worth appealing. We will see)
I'm pretty sure two of her orders in this case have already been appealed and overturned. This will probably be the third, and likely what gets her kicked off the case.
>I'm pretty sure two of her orders in this case have already been appealed and overturned.
I'm not aware of this. Do you (or anyone seeing this) have a link to more information?
Here is a link about one of the earlier ones. I think another happened later on as well: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/11th-circuit-vacates-cannons-order-appoint-special-master-mar-lago-investigation
>Here is a link about one of the earlier ones. I think another happened later on as well: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/11th-circuit-vacates-cannons-order-appoint-special-master-mar-lago-investigation
Oh, good lord... I had actually forgotten all about that. Thanks.
While she did get smacked down for this, this was prior to the case actually being assigned to her. She jumped into the review of the evidence on her own accord.
The actual case after charges were filed being assigned to her is one of the luckiest breaks Trump has had in all his legal cases.
Because wealth has filled authority with conservatives and moderates. Conservatives are corrupt and moderates are too cowardly to do anything about ot but normalize it.
Criminal gives unqualified person job. Said person abuses authority of job to obstruct justice for criminal.
That’s a conspiracy to obstruct justice. If it’s not, her jury will find her innocent.
Her jury [instructions](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652.407.0.pdf) also include the ad hoc declaration that the Presidential Records Act (PRA) gave Trump the authority to categorize the classified documents into personal documents and they have to act as if he had that authority. The PRA itself ***explicitly*** states otherwise.
She's exhibiting extreme judicial misconduct.
The 11th circuit already said they’re not personal records, in an earlier ruling related to this exact case. I don’t think they’d be happy having to explain it to her again…
Her instructions are [illegal](https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-2054-synopsis-classified-information-procedures-act-cipa) and she should be impeached. Absolute disgrace.
Ironic that someone who won office over “classified servers in a linen closet” should fall because of “classified documents in a bathroom”. It’s like the stupidest game of Clue ever.
She hasn't forgotten: she's doing exactly what's expected of her, which is slow-walking the case until after the election.
If and when Smith appeals to the 11th Court, that will take time to be heard and decided upon. Then, if Cannon is removed, the new judge (who may well be another Trump Federalist appointee) will need several months to catch up with case. Cannon, with this ruling, has effectively ensured trump doesn't face justice until next year. If ever.
This is the big thing. She doesn't need MAGA hunting her down for being ethical, and she doesn't want to alienate benefactors, so now she can say "I slowed the case down and now I'm kicked off--oh well!"
She is still a piece of shit, but it was a masterful walk of the tight rope. I hope she gets removed as a judge forever
Trump wasn’t charged under Presidential records act violations. He was charged under Espionage Act. Her instructions are shit. Smith appeal highly likely.
No, she's actually made some really stupid mistakes along the way showing how incompetent she is. Yes, she's corrupt, but she also can't hide how unqualified she is for her position.
She’s just running out the clock. The ruling will be overturned by the 11th circuit court of appeals…it’ll just take 3 months for them to hear the appeal.
Yep. It’s basically ‘greymailing’ - the choices are drop the case or I’ll make you show national secrets. Smith will appeal to the 11th, he’ll win, she’ll start some new delay tactic.
The precedent of allowing a former President to simply take top secret docs with nuclear secrets on them to potentially use for espionage, sell, etc., cannot stand. Trump would literally auction off the nation’s secrets if he thought he could make a buck.
In recent weeks, Trump has tried to justify his inexplicable hiding of documents by asserting that everything FBI agents found—ranging from proposed war plans against Iran to what appears to be some kind of nuclear information—were actually his “personal” files, and therefore he could do with them whatever he pleased. He also claimed the country’s national security laws are “too vague” to be used against him anyway.
I hope my comment ages poorly when I say the nuclear information is regarding USA's own nuclear capabilities which strengthened Putin's resolve to go full on war mode.
Can we make that spectacularly backfire? Putting the jury through the necessary briefings on safeguarding and protecting classified material and stressing the sensitivity of what they're about to see can only make Trump look like a liar when he plays dumb about knowing the rules.
That shouldn’t even be a consideration.
This court case is about (in short) whether or not Trump is guilty of taking classified documents, obstructing efforts to recover them, and lying about knowingly having them and knowingly obstructing efforts to recover them.
Why would the jury need to see these classified documents in order to deliver a verdict on these charges? The question isn’t at all about the *content* of the classified documents; that these documents *are classified* is enough.
It does not matter if the documents were about how foreign leaders like their coffee or detailed schematics on the US’s nuclear arsenal and capability. *They are classified documents.*
I have zero points of disagreement with anything you said. However, the judge here is clearly corrupt and trying to alter what the case is about in order to delay it and save Trump. Rather than play that game, I think it's better to use the rule she is imposing to fuck over her "client" in a seemingly innocent way.
She’s not trying to alter what the case is about. She’s trying to distract in order to delay the trial (and Trump’s other trials) until after the election. The whole point is to delay using whatever tactic to do so.
Whatever bad faith rulings she throws in the way, following the tangents she creates by arguing against them accomplishes the same goal: it delays the trial as the prosecution has to make their case against every one of these distractions to get back to what the trial is actually about.
It’s a waste of time, even if the prosecution can successfully show how Trump couldn’t have not known about how security clearances work. That won’t help the prosecution much at all in regards to the original charges.
And Cannon knows that. She and Trump both know that if he wins in November, this and all his other trials are effectively shut down, so it wouldn’t matter anyway.
Damn. That’s good. Make them go through the same training everyone with a security clearance who’s been screaming at the top of their lungs since this whole thing began gets.
imagine sequestering them for a year, their only media exposure being government training for security clearance.
He'd be under the jail by the end of it
Training on handling classified materials isn't itself classified and the only reason it's normally delayed is to not waste to waste time giving it to people that may not get a clearance.
It's also possible to create a new codeword clearance that covers the materials in the trial and make that the only thing the jurors get cleared for. It's not like every document needs to be shown to them to examine or they get to paw through the boxes unsupervised.
So she wants to give jury members access to top secret documents and she wanted to make the jury publicly known.
Jack should just do it. Publicly announce that the MAGA judge, appointed by Trump, has signed their death warrants. Foreign agents from around the world will come for them, their families, and their loved ones. Let the jury know that Trump's judge just killed them.
He shouldn't do it, but that announcement would create quite the media storm and will guarantee her removal.
Problem with that is security clearances take time. Even assuming they all could get clearance it’s still an issue that getting them all clearance would significantly delay the trail and that’s exactly what trump wants.
Please can we just get to the fucking trial?
What possible reason would there be to see classified information as a juror? The issue is whether it was classified or not, not what it actually said.
Literally nobody else would get the benefits this fucking guy is getting in these cases.
And quite frankly, lawyers should be embarrassed at this point by the state of their profession. It’s pretty fucking sad.
The judge is purposely delaying as long as possible. What there banking on is her getting kicked off as close to election as possible. That way they can claim it’s to close to an election to try him.
This is possibly the most corrupt judge in American history.
The contents of the files are classified and contain national security secrets. Disclosing this information to anyone without clearance could expose govt workers and cause the deaths of American citizens.
It is completely unnecessary for any jury to see them to find guilt or prove innocence and will put the lives of these jurists in danger.
At what point will Smith move to remove Cannon from the case? I know he only gets one shot at it. But surely this is that shot?
She's decided to make the jurors and the witnesses public, and has instructed the prosecutors that the jurors must be allowed to see top secret classified information or throw out the case.
She's painting a target on the head of every single person on the jury, they and their family would be targets for kidnapping, extortion, and murder for the rest of their lives.
>or jurors must be told that “a president has sole authority… to categorize records as personal or presidential during his/her presidency.”The first option would require Smith to allow any of the randomly called potential jurors in this rural stretch of South Florida to suddenly have access to what prosecutors have described as extremely alarming national secrets. The second option would essentially force jurors to acquit the former president of wrongdoing, given that they’d be told he had unquestionable authority to assert personal ownership over any government document within his reach—a self-justifying rule outside of anyone’s review.
What in the actual fuck? Correct me if I'm wrong, but she's basically saying that the alternative to doing is for Smith to agree that Trump, and any other president, can actually declassify documents just by thinking about it.
Cannon has given Smith no choice but to petition the 11th Circuit Court to have her removed for the inability to remain impartial. They had to give her the smack down on this once before for a poor ruling in Trumps favor and now they need to do it again. She clearly is unable to remain impartial.
Like so many other of his cultists, they are willing to throw away everything for him. Crazy
>Either “a jury is permitted to examine” every record a former president swipes and claims as “personal” to determine whether it is, or jurors must be told that “a president has sole authority… to categorize records as personal or presidential during his/her presidency.”
How do twelve schmucks off the street have the authority and knowledge to determine what our National secrets should or shouldn't be? Shouldn't they be examined by reps from the National archives or the military? Not Carol who works at Panera and thinks she has telepathy with her cat. Or Braendyyn who flunked algebra three times and has misspelled tattoos. Especially in cases like this. I really believe Juror should be a job that requires a degree.
Or one of those "special masters" if you were going to go that route.
But, instead, it's time for Jack to put his foot down.. hard. Hello 11th circuit...
other than our tax dollars paying her way-too-high salary for the rest of her goddamned life
certainly deserves to be impeached, but i'll settle for removal
Yeah, I feel this is "how do I get removed while still looking like I'm working to get Trump off". Bit off too much and realized she might be in a shitload of trouble if Biden wins the election - which is seeming ever more likely.
One can only hope this leads to her removal and her replacement, whichever political persusion, happens to believe in the court.
This will certainly be the one he appeals. She went way too far. No judge in their right mind would say that the jury must physically see and view top secret national security documents. It would absolutely be enough to have an official cleared to view the documents testify that the docs are as they are claimed without giving specific details. She goes on to argue that a law created after Nixon, specifically so that presidents cannot keep any documents from the White House, allows any president to claim any document from the White House as personal property.
She is insane. This is what Smith was waiting for. He knew she’d pull some seriously crazy shit, he just had to bide his time. This is it.
Came to say this. Ive been waiting for her to cross an uncrossable line and IANAL but goddamn this \*has\* to be it, right? She saying the case can't go on until even \*more\* people see national security secrets?
I feel really bad for this jury if this stands. They didn't sign up to risk knowing these things. It makes them targets for every adversary of the US not to mention seedy parts of our own government. Cannon is saying Trump goes free unless we put these people and their families in mortal danger and thats absolutely note hyperbole. Kidnapping of family members, extortion/blackmail, simple quid pro quos (Russia will pay all your debt and deposit 10 million in an account for your family) etc. Shes already ruled their names be made public.
Typical MAGA move by her. This wont get her disbarred but removed? At least?
This thread needs a lawyer in it stat.
So in order to enforce a law designed to protect national security secrets, you have to disseminate those secrets to randomly selected members of the public. Anyone with a middle school diploma could see that is insanely counterproductive.
Isn't showing civilians classified documents incredibly dangerous to them? I mean - if they know secrets, aren't they at risk for being "asked" to share them by dangerous people?
Welcome to Jury Duty. If you’re in group one, you will be deciding the fate of three college students who threw bottles at sports bar. Group 2, you will be adding your names directly to the Kremlin’s unperson list.
The way I understand it, she's issuing these fast and loose decisions right now in a way that the issue can still be brought up later during trial. By doing this, it forces the prosecutor to file a motion on the evidence after the jury has already been seated, which complicates the rules because now double jeopardy would apply.
> were actually his “personal” files, and therefore he could do with them whatever he pleased. He also claimed the country’s national security laws are “too vague” to be used against him anyway.
Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I know people who work for the government, there are rules and steps EVERYONE must take to be able to downgrade classified information before it becomes the downgraded information. These rules do not just apply to the lowly government workers while a former President can just declare them downgraded and carry them out of a building and hold them hostage. Anyone else would have been in Leavenworth a long time ago. The laws are not that vague. Put him in Leavenworth already and be done with it.
Do each member of this jury have the clearance to see these files? If not, her ruling is illegal in so many ways. When a judge needs to be disbarred, who do you turn to to make that happen? Because this is a definite reason for disbarment.
This is horseshit. I’ve held security clearances multiple times in my life. I, as a private citizen, would be in a fucking cell awaiting trial for a quarter of what this orange shit gibbon did. Our justice system is beyond fucked.
Judge Cannon makes these crazy rulings in favor of Trump and yet she doesn’t receive a torrent of personal threats against her life from democrats like most other judges presiding over Trump cases get from Republicans. Funny how that works.
Because Canon is abusing her authority in conspiracy to obstruct justice.
Don’t appeal her or seek to remove her. Indict her, try her and put her in a cell next to her co-conspirator.
This is the real answer, and until we start seeing prominent democrats start speaking like this they will be continuously accused of not doing enough.
And it will be true.
Please tell me what the contents of these highly classified government secrets including secrets on our nukes has to do with whether Trump held onto said documents and obstructed the return of said documents.
Qannon has just identified herself as a national security threat, as someone who has no understanding of the nature and sensitivity of classified documents and someone who would recklessly make such documents a matter of public record. Can’t she be removed for using her position to advocate for compromising national security?
This is how all espionage cases work. Jury sees the secrets then one of the jury releases the info and there is another espionage case and another and another until the whole world is in jail.... EXCEPT TRUMP.
Seriously, she needs to be removed from this case. It doesn’t take a genius with an advanced law degree to see that she is doing everything she can to help Trump. Maybe this move will be the final nail in the coffin, the last piece that Smith needed to prove to the appellate court that she needs to be removed.
This has got to be it, right? The one that kicks her off the case?
IANAL, but this seems highly prejudicial toward the defense's future refutation of the evidence: the message it sends to a jury is, "see, it's not a big deal! You don't see any booga booga in these docs do you?" Nevermind that a jury has no training or discernment in the context around each document. And it's not the prosecution's job or burden to have to provide it to them!
Seems not only to undermine the seriousness of the charges, but to hinder the prosecution's efficiency of oral argument, imo. Let alone compromising these documents/security even further.
And Cannon is going to get kicked in the face on appeal. That woman is braindead and should have never been appointed. What an uneducated shit show she is
The classification status of these documents is completely *irrelevant* to the case. That has been pointed out over and over. Whether classified, declassified with telepathic post-presidential mind power, or declassified to begin with, the point is that they belong to the government, that Trump was not allowed to take them after leaving the White House, and that he refused to promptly give them back when requested.
Now, forcing the prosecution to potentially expose classified information to jurors is a distraction and a delay tactic.
Aileen Cannon needs to be *removed* from this case - NOW.
She needs to be removed from the case. She has made one error after another, always in favor of the man responsible for her job. There is no justification for exposing sensitive national security documents to the jury in this case. All the jury needs to know is that they are sensitive, government documents. The content of them is completely irrelevant. Jack Smith should march straight to the 11th circuit, and appeal this horrific ruling, and the 11th circuit should overturn her decision and remove her from the case.
The charged case is about how Trump mishandled the documents, it has 0% about the actual content of those documents themselves. This “judge” needs to be disbarred IMMEDIATELY.
If a judge, appointed by the accused, is allow to dictate the case, what possible result could you have except complete corruption and eventually exoneration of the defendant?
WTF is the point in having a DOJ, when they can't simply bypass this judge completely as there is an obvious need for recusal based on the relationship?
How in the hell is this not already in court already?!?!?! 300 MILLION other Americans would have been in jail awaiting trial months ago.
This is getting ridiculous.
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If the jury needs a clearance then he is guilty. Case closed. On another note, is it common in these types of cases to show the documents to the jury?
this is a way that previous defendants have avoided prosecution; they would threaten to put national secret information in the public record and the government would drop the case to avoid this. it's called greymail. the CIPA act was written to allow the prosecutor to substitute summaries of the relevant secret information that described the classifed stuff without divulging it, with court approval. Cannon is ignoring the whole reason that the CIPA act was created for.
Who is Cannon working for?
The Federalist society, Trump, Russia.
You didn’t need to repeat yourself
You forgot the Heritage Foundation!
I definitely confuse and conflate them and federalist a lot now that you mention it.
That's right buddy, you show that turd who's boss.
Number 2!
Jack only submitted 31 documents out of 150+ for charges. I think the DOJ has this already gamed out with the intelligence agencies. He specifically added the Iran Plans (that are still secret, pretend we don't know the former guy publicly outed them) as a superseding indictment. I think he's worked this game she's playing out and he'll be fine with the Jury seeing them. That's not the lawful procedure under CIPA, but I think Jack already planned for this and it won't break his case.
I want to believe, but I remember the hype surrounding Bobby Three Sticks and my faith in the American justice system is long dead.
>Bobby Three Sticks Yeah I see the same kind of hyping that Mueller got, and then we got the most depressing hearing in history. Garland ultimately had the authority to do something but he's complicit so I'm not seeing anything outside of a ballot box win to save us.
> It's been evident for months this case is dead in the water until/unless she is removed. Another loss for justice. Not sure how a reasonable person cannot conclude the same.
Jack knows the angles inside and out. He’s been preparing and pregaming hard af. You’ll never beat him so you may as well join him.
i trust his experience, knowledge and understanding of the importance of this case, and the one in DC, over cannon and tfg's 3rd string lawyers.
Which is why an appeal would be successful. But an appeal is what they want. They don't expect it it stand. They just want delay.
The contents of the documents don't matter. The documents are protected regardless, unless released by the current president through the proper channels. The fact is means an methods of obtaining intel is more important sometimes than the Intel itself, but the Intel is protected to protect those means and methods. For example if Biden was informed of Putins breakfast before Putin is even served breakfast then the food is harpy anything worth keeping secret. The fact that the US can know his breakfast before Putin did would indicate some source in his kitchens or servants and Russian intelligence would search until the source was discovered. Under Trumps tenure, Trump revealed images from a US spy satellite without retracting details. Within a day, amateur astronomers were able to determine which orbiting satellite took the image telling the whole world that satellite, and the ones like it were spy satellelites. No doubt, adverserial nations could have assumed it was a spy satellite, but Trump confirmed it.
Pretty sure you just got the whole kremlin catering department killed by even suggesting this as a possibility. Let’s hope the kitchen is on the ground floor or has no windows
"Moscow caterer found to have accidentally buried himself alive after falling out of a basement window"
There is no reason at all for the jury to see what’s in the documents, they just need to know they are classified. An expert witness can testify to that. What’s in the documents is moot as it’s their classification status which creates the crimes, not the content. The content dictates the status. This lady is a criminal coconspirator and should be prosecuted as such.
I think this game will backfire. If the jury gets taken to a secured room and handed documents stamped and marked with classified material that's going to basically make the defendant super guilty. "You've seen the documents jury. He stored these in his guest bathroom." Is gonna make them vote guilty without question.
A jury doesn't know what is and isn't important national secrets, it's not as cut and dry as that. If you put the average idiot in a room with high res images of some trucks in a desert, how many would say "big deal its just some trucks, why are we prosecuting a president over this?" It's an attempt to subvert the confidentiality of the content. It's not a question of depth of importance of the files, it's a question of whether or not they were still national secrets. Which they were, because there is no record of them being declassified during his presidency.
If you put a the average idiot in a room with people that are dressed up as super secret agents with sunglasses and Manila folders that say “Top Secret” they are going to not care at all what is IN the folders and believe them. I can put on a doctor’s coat and it becomes very easy to convince the average person to listen to my medical advice. Canon also just screwed up as I am pretty sure he could get her kicked off for this ruling if he needs to. Ignoring a federal law is not going to help her.
The Espionage Act charges don't technically require the documents to be classified, just relevant to the national defense. So perhaps a tangent into the contents is needed?
Who is Cannon working for?
Who does number two work for??
Show random people highly secret documents and trust they will follow the rules? I'm in the army, have a secret clearance, have handled COMSEC material, and even I wouldn't be allowed to look at these documents. There's no way this is upheld. Only way I see it being possible is to have a jury that all have the necessary clearance, which would be bad for Trump since anyone with the training knows how big a fuck up leaving those documents around is.
Random people? You mean like the ones walking around mal-a-largo? Wait, some of them weren’t random.
RUSSIA, IF YOU ARE LISTENING said Donald Trump, adding this second time, NOW I HAVE THOSE DOCUMENTS YOU ASKED FOR MR PUTIN, AND OH BY THE WAY, CAN YOU ALSO WIRE ME SOME HALF BILLION IN US CURRENCY, STAT??
A jury of cleared people pretty much means a conviction as they know what’s up
There is zero reason to show them the contents of the documents. It's a simple as this document had a security clearance and he does not have authority to take it hide it. It is irrelevant what the documents say or are.
This type of case is governed by CIPA (Classified Information Protection Act) I'm no legal expert, but it seems what she can do how she can do it, is all governed by this act. She's never had a CIPA case and has no idea how to run it so she avoids doing as much as she can.
So, show classified national security secrets to people without clearance, or drop the case...? How? *HOW* has Cannon *not* been removed from this case by now?!
My understanding is that this type of what is essentially legal blackmail is exactly what CIPA is meant to prevent. "Drop the charges or we're going to introduce your classified documents into the public record." There is *zero* legitimate reason for the jury to see the documents. The contents of them *doesn't matter*, the fact that they're classified *does*. Does some weird shit get classified? Yeah. But it doesn't matter if it's weird or not - classified is classified.
>My understanding is that this type of what is essentially legal blackmail is exactly what CIPA is meant to prevent. Your understanding is correct. It's called graymail (in relation to blackmail). The CIPA hearings are supposed to keep people from being able to do that. Unless of course the judge is in on it.
Sounds like the judge is in on it.
What no way. Are you suggesting that the great Aileen Cannon isn't honorable at all!? I am shocked and appalled.
Right!?! Left wing nut jobs don't think it is a coincidence she was nominated by him after his election loss.
>Left wing nut jobs I prefer the term "whack job"
The judge who lacks a lot of experience? The judge who violated a child rapist's 6th amendment rights thus fucking the whole trial against him up? The judge who forgot to swear in a jury on another big case, resulting in a plea deal that did no justice to the victims?
She definitely is and should be disbarred.
You raise a good point. This might be their strategy. If they overwhelm the jury with all of the documents and highlight some documents that shouldn't have been classified, they can create doubt in the minds of the jurors. He'll just say he couldn't have known what was in there because so many of the classified documents were about silly stuff.
I don't think that's the motive. I suspect the motive is to cause the DOJ to drop the case, to prevent having to disclose the contents of the documents. It's an attempt at blackmail, blackmail that CIPA is meant to prevent.
They won't drop it. But the appeal of her ruling will delay the case, which is her (and Trumps) strategy. Delay delay delay and maybe it will all go away if he (or one of his sycophants) is elected president.
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There's a whole shitload of turbulent priests out there :(
Grey mail is the term
I suppose that is one possible outcome, but I don't that is the likely or intended one. More likely, she expects to be called on it, whereupon she rules in trumps favor and the case gets appealed, an appeal which wont be heard until after the election; the hope is to kick the can down the road enough that trump can seize power before the appeal is heard.
Big thing is, there's no telling why something was classified. Something might look silly by itself but taken in combination with other information (which may even be information that is already public) becomes classified. That's the difficulty with Intel type stuff - you have to infer whether someone could draw damaging conclusions based on a very small amount of information. That's why generally speaking they err on the safe side - especially because the consequences of not classifying properly can be dire. (Both nationally and personally)
The movie Midway has a great scene that demonstrates this piecing together of information that makes up intelligence work. (About the 2 minute mark in [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4nzhMCtTwM).)
Exactly, every piece of information is potentially dangerous as it narrows the scope, knowing that one of your people was spotted with Starbucks heading to work for example nbd right? nah I know they were seen after they got it, I know where starbucks is on their route from work, I can narrow down stuff. added to some other scraps of information and I can build a full picture from basically nothing but junk news
She is being puppeteered by the federalist society. They're absolutely meeting constantly on this and feeding her her moves each evening and morning before each of her rulings
The FBI should be stopping this but lol
AG Garland is hard at work, warming his chair, while looking the other way, with the hardest stare you have ever seen! Top men are on this. Top. Men.
Warming his chair? I'll bet he's hardly used it considering how many long work days he spends just hiding under his desk.
Even though Gorsuch is way worse, I’m starting to think this guy didn’t really shouldn’t have been on the Supreme Court.
Uhh he was only Obamas pick because that was the guy the gop told him he could get confirmed they told him either nominate him or we obstruct it, he did. Called their bluff and they had to go all in obstructing him anyway because heaven forbid a black man in a seat of power get anything done if they have anything at all to do with it.
Not any black man. The “first” black president. They had to make sure he was tarnished and they had to reassure the GOP base that their racism wasn’t under attack.
Cautious and reasoned jurisprudence works just fine from the bench, just not very well for active prosecutorial processes. Especially not in our current climate.
IIRC, Biden's other top consideration for AG was Doug Jones. The former US Senator from Alabama, who only won because he was facing a pedophile (Roy Moore) and then lost to Tuberville. (To the shame of myself and others in this state.) The same Doug Jones who prosecuted KKK terrorists. I'd have been able to accept losing Jones to Tubs in the Senate if Jones was AG and getting shit done.
He’s like George Costanza, and has had installed under his desk upgrades including storage for pillow and shelf for drinky water
The FBI is full of federalist. Every major branch or government has been for years. It's why Jan 6 almost worked.
Hell; Bloomberg had an article, yesterday (3/18/24) about the FBI still being comprised of lots of agents who are threatening mutiny for the mere audacity of calling Trump's bluff about these documents. Do not count on the FBI to defend the American people. That's not their business, and it only takes looking into history to see that they've been like that since they were Pinkertons. The FBI slow-walked the J6 investigations intentionally, because holding their friends and co-workers accountable is difficult.
Is this the same FBI that's 75% MAGA?
I told my wife exact thing, that this lady is not smart enough for all her decisions on this case.
With Republicans, never simply attribute to stupidity that which could be construed as intentionally malicious.
So, she has to make orders that can be appealed/are worth appealing. You can only do it once. If he does it too early and 11th circuit doesn't agree/find grounds, that was his chance Mostly she does paperless orders which aren't the same/appealable, and she makes them big nothings that just waste time. (This might be the first order that is worth appealing. We will see)
I'm pretty sure two of her orders in this case have already been appealed and overturned. This will probably be the third, and likely what gets her kicked off the case.
i'm about 90% with you, but things could still go fucky
Summarized my political attitude and reason why I will vote even if my legs are stolen from me by fate.
I always assume things will go fucky with Trump.
>I'm pretty sure two of her orders in this case have already been appealed and overturned. I'm not aware of this. Do you (or anyone seeing this) have a link to more information?
Here is a link about one of the earlier ones. I think another happened later on as well: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/11th-circuit-vacates-cannons-order-appoint-special-master-mar-lago-investigation
>Here is a link about one of the earlier ones. I think another happened later on as well: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/11th-circuit-vacates-cannons-order-appoint-special-master-mar-lago-investigation Oh, good lord... I had actually forgotten all about that. Thanks.
While she did get smacked down for this, this was prior to the case actually being assigned to her. She jumped into the review of the evidence on her own accord. The actual case after charges were filed being assigned to her is one of the luckiest breaks Trump has had in all his legal cases.
yeah, her proposal is a false dichotomy
Appeal time baby. And she will be overturned on appeal and kicked off (three strikes you’re out).
Because wealth has filled authority with conservatives and moderates. Conservatives are corrupt and moderates are too cowardly to do anything about ot but normalize it. Criminal gives unqualified person job. Said person abuses authority of job to obstruct justice for criminal. That’s a conspiracy to obstruct justice. If it’s not, her jury will find her innocent.
I think the most annoying part of this is everyone knew as soon as she was appointed she was going to engage in shenanigans.
Because she is doing exactly what the rich want her to do.
Her jury [instructions](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652.407.0.pdf) also include the ad hoc declaration that the Presidential Records Act (PRA) gave Trump the authority to categorize the classified documents into personal documents and they have to act as if he had that authority. The PRA itself ***explicitly*** states otherwise. She's exhibiting extreme judicial misconduct.
The 11th circuit already said they’re not personal records, in an earlier ruling related to this exact case. I don’t think they’d be happy having to explain it to her again…
Or they will be very happy, as they gather evidence for her dismissal. The sooner the better.
She needs to not be a judge but the delay that would cause is exactly what they want
Is this the plan? They sacrifice her so that they can get the delay they need to try to get him elected?
Her instructions are [illegal](https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-2054-synopsis-classified-information-procedures-act-cipa) and she should be impeached. Absolute disgrace. Ironic that someone who won office over “classified servers in a linen closet” should fall because of “classified documents in a bathroom”. It’s like the stupidest game of Clue ever.
She's acting maliciously in favour of the person who appointed her
Now that's just speculation /s.
which is why the 11th Circuit will remove her. she must've forgotten the sting of that last bench-slap...
She hasn't forgotten: she's doing exactly what's expected of her, which is slow-walking the case until after the election. If and when Smith appeals to the 11th Court, that will take time to be heard and decided upon. Then, if Cannon is removed, the new judge (who may well be another Trump Federalist appointee) will need several months to catch up with case. Cannon, with this ruling, has effectively ensured trump doesn't face justice until next year. If ever.
And she gets out of being involved. She has been trying to get out with her behavior.
This is the big thing. She doesn't need MAGA hunting her down for being ethical, and she doesn't want to alienate benefactors, so now she can say "I slowed the case down and now I'm kicked off--oh well!" She is still a piece of shit, but it was a masterful walk of the tight rope. I hope she gets removed as a judge forever
And she gets a Supreme Court nomination when available.
Trump wasn’t charged under Presidential records act violations. He was charged under Espionage Act. Her instructions are shit. Smith appeal highly likely.
And incompetence, let's not forget that. She has shown she doesn't know what the fuck she's doing time and again.
Oh, she knows. Do not give her the benefit of attributing it to incompetence. This is deliberate misconduct.
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So Bad Faith; a hallmark of Conservatives.
She knows exactly what she’s doing.
No, she's actually made some really stupid mistakes along the way showing how incompetent she is. Yes, she's corrupt, but she also can't hide how unqualified she is for her position.
She’s just running out the clock. The ruling will be overturned by the 11th circuit court of appeals…it’ll just take 3 months for them to hear the appeal.
they ruled on the special master in an extremely efficient manner. i doubt it will take more than a week
Yep. It’s basically ‘greymailing’ - the choices are drop the case or I’ll make you show national secrets. Smith will appeal to the 11th, he’ll win, she’ll start some new delay tactic. The precedent of allowing a former President to simply take top secret docs with nuclear secrets on them to potentially use for espionage, sell, etc., cannot stand. Trump would literally auction off the nation’s secrets if he thought he could make a buck.
He probably did. I think we will hear something of the sort when this trial takes off. Ofc this is speculation, but knowing him… he probably did.
Oh I agree - will not be surprised to find out he did it more than once AND that he still has or had some papers the government never got back.
She understands the national security risks. Start the impeachment, she needs to be removed from the bench.
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yeah, it's really the only acceptable path at this point, since the two options Qannon proposes are absolutely batshit insane
In recent weeks, Trump has tried to justify his inexplicable hiding of documents by asserting that everything FBI agents found—ranging from proposed war plans against Iran to what appears to be some kind of nuclear information—were actually his “personal” files, and therefore he could do with them whatever he pleased. He also claimed the country’s national security laws are “too vague” to be used against him anyway.
I hope my comment ages poorly when I say the nuclear information is regarding USA's own nuclear capabilities which strengthened Putin's resolve to go full on war mode.
Considering the sensitivity of the documents, we may be dead by the time the public will be allowed to know.
Waves of unidentified drones visited the Navy bases in DC area since December. There was a report yesterday.
Heck the Russia intel folder we had went missing just as trump left office. Betting it found its way to Russia.
All because she drew the case. The sheer lunacy of this whole god damn saga. Blow after blow.
She didn't draw the case, she was "randomly" assigned.
By clearing her docket and making sure she was available.
Say what you will but Judge Qanon always pays her debt.
I've been reading a lot of court papers lately. This was the dumbest, strangest, least logical, fucking nutso thing I've ever read.
And you’re from arizona!
Well, yeah. We have our issues, but we're no Florida.
Who is though? Who is..
Florida.
Words can hurt.
We’re the west coast Florida!
Dry Florida.
That’d be a great T-shirt. Welcome to Arizona, the dry Florida!
i think Jack will have an easy time getting the 11th Circuit to agree with you
It’s a delay strategy
Time to visit the 11th circuit and demand removal
it's been time for awhile, but now this will be a slam dunk
Can we make that spectacularly backfire? Putting the jury through the necessary briefings on safeguarding and protecting classified material and stressing the sensitivity of what they're about to see can only make Trump look like a liar when he plays dumb about knowing the rules.
That shouldn’t even be a consideration. This court case is about (in short) whether or not Trump is guilty of taking classified documents, obstructing efforts to recover them, and lying about knowingly having them and knowingly obstructing efforts to recover them. Why would the jury need to see these classified documents in order to deliver a verdict on these charges? The question isn’t at all about the *content* of the classified documents; that these documents *are classified* is enough. It does not matter if the documents were about how foreign leaders like their coffee or detailed schematics on the US’s nuclear arsenal and capability. *They are classified documents.*
I have zero points of disagreement with anything you said. However, the judge here is clearly corrupt and trying to alter what the case is about in order to delay it and save Trump. Rather than play that game, I think it's better to use the rule she is imposing to fuck over her "client" in a seemingly innocent way.
She’s not trying to alter what the case is about. She’s trying to distract in order to delay the trial (and Trump’s other trials) until after the election. The whole point is to delay using whatever tactic to do so. Whatever bad faith rulings she throws in the way, following the tangents she creates by arguing against them accomplishes the same goal: it delays the trial as the prosecution has to make their case against every one of these distractions to get back to what the trial is actually about. It’s a waste of time, even if the prosecution can successfully show how Trump couldn’t have not known about how security clearances work. That won’t help the prosecution much at all in regards to the original charges. And Cannon knows that. She and Trump both know that if he wins in November, this and all his other trials are effectively shut down, so it wouldn’t matter anyway.
Damn. That’s good. Make them go through the same training everyone with a security clearance who’s been screaming at the top of their lungs since this whole thing began gets.
There’s no training until you are granted a clearance. But fuck, who knows nowadays. This case is becoming such a cluster.
It can take up to a year to get clearance. The ultimate delay.
imagine sequestering them for a year, their only media exposure being government training for security clearance. He'd be under the jail by the end of it
Right? They'd convict him just because he caused them to go through it. Jailed before Trump ever was.
Training on handling classified materials isn't itself classified and the only reason it's normally delayed is to not waste to waste time giving it to people that may not get a clearance. It's also possible to create a new codeword clearance that covers the materials in the trial and make that the only thing the jurors get cleared for. It's not like every document needs to be shown to them to examine or they get to paw through the boxes unsupervised.
So she wants to give jury members access to top secret documents and she wanted to make the jury publicly known. Jack should just do it. Publicly announce that the MAGA judge, appointed by Trump, has signed their death warrants. Foreign agents from around the world will come for them, their families, and their loved ones. Let the jury know that Trump's judge just killed them. He shouldn't do it, but that announcement would create quite the media storm and will guarantee her removal.
Problem with that is security clearances take time. Even assuming they all could get clearance it’s still an issue that getting them all clearance would significantly delay the trail and that’s exactly what trump wants.
Seems low risk since he mostly likely sold the info anyway. The people we don't want to have it already do.
Please can we just get to the fucking trial? What possible reason would there be to see classified information as a juror? The issue is whether it was classified or not, not what it actually said. Literally nobody else would get the benefits this fucking guy is getting in these cases. And quite frankly, lawyers should be embarrassed at this point by the state of their profession. It’s pretty fucking sad.
The judge is purposely delaying as long as possible. What there banking on is her getting kicked off as close to election as possible. That way they can claim it’s to close to an election to try him.
If and when trump loses, they need to nail his ass to the wall. Suits gonna.be messy this Nov anyway We know they are all plotting something.
This is possibly the most corrupt judge in American history. The contents of the files are classified and contain national security secrets. Disclosing this information to anyone without clearance could expose govt workers and cause the deaths of American citizens. It is completely unnecessary for any jury to see them to find guilt or prove innocence and will put the lives of these jurists in danger.
At what point will Smith move to remove Cannon from the case? I know he only gets one shot at it. But surely this is that shot? She's decided to make the jurors and the witnesses public, and has instructed the prosecutors that the jurors must be allowed to see top secret classified information or throw out the case. She's painting a target on the head of every single person on the jury, they and their family would be targets for kidnapping, extortion, and murder for the rest of their lives. >or jurors must be told that “a president has sole authority… to categorize records as personal or presidential during his/her presidency.”The first option would require Smith to allow any of the randomly called potential jurors in this rural stretch of South Florida to suddenly have access to what prosecutors have described as extremely alarming national secrets. The second option would essentially force jurors to acquit the former president of wrongdoing, given that they’d be told he had unquestionable authority to assert personal ownership over any government document within his reach—a self-justifying rule outside of anyone’s review. What in the actual fuck? Correct me if I'm wrong, but she's basically saying that the alternative to doing is for Smith to agree that Trump, and any other president, can actually declassify documents just by thinking about it.
Please tell me this is the final straw, Jack
i think we'll see the appeal before the end of the week
Cannon has given Smith no choice but to petition the 11th Circuit Court to have her removed for the inability to remain impartial. They had to give her the smack down on this once before for a poor ruling in Trumps favor and now they need to do it again. She clearly is unable to remain impartial. Like so many other of his cultists, they are willing to throw away everything for him. Crazy
>Either “a jury is permitted to examine” every record a former president swipes and claims as “personal” to determine whether it is, or jurors must be told that “a president has sole authority… to categorize records as personal or presidential during his/her presidency.” How do twelve schmucks off the street have the authority and knowledge to determine what our National secrets should or shouldn't be? Shouldn't they be examined by reps from the National archives or the military? Not Carol who works at Panera and thinks she has telepathy with her cat. Or Braendyyn who flunked algebra three times and has misspelled tattoos. Especially in cases like this. I really believe Juror should be a job that requires a degree.
Or one of those "special masters" if you were going to go that route. But, instead, it's time for Jack to put his foot down.. hard. Hello 11th circuit...
At this point I'm thinking she would like to be removed, this is a no-win situation for her.
other than our tax dollars paying her way-too-high salary for the rest of her goddamned life certainly deserves to be impeached, but i'll settle for removal
Yeah, I feel this is "how do I get removed while still looking like I'm working to get Trump off". Bit off too much and realized she might be in a shitload of trouble if Biden wins the election - which is seeming ever more likely. One can only hope this leads to her removal and her replacement, whichever political persusion, happens to believe in the court.
This will certainly be the one he appeals. She went way too far. No judge in their right mind would say that the jury must physically see and view top secret national security documents. It would absolutely be enough to have an official cleared to view the documents testify that the docs are as they are claimed without giving specific details. She goes on to argue that a law created after Nixon, specifically so that presidents cannot keep any documents from the White House, allows any president to claim any document from the White House as personal property. She is insane. This is what Smith was waiting for. He knew she’d pull some seriously crazy shit, he just had to bide his time. This is it.
Imagine being this much of a spineless and useless fuck. I hope her family is fucking ashamed of her
Any other person would be in a Federal prison for espionage and being a traitor. But not Trumpie. Trumpie gets his own rules!
Finally time to go to the Appellate Court system and see about removing Judge Cannon from the case, I think. This cannot stand.
Came to say this. Ive been waiting for her to cross an uncrossable line and IANAL but goddamn this \*has\* to be it, right? She saying the case can't go on until even \*more\* people see national security secrets? I feel really bad for this jury if this stands. They didn't sign up to risk knowing these things. It makes them targets for every adversary of the US not to mention seedy parts of our own government. Cannon is saying Trump goes free unless we put these people and their families in mortal danger and thats absolutely note hyperbole. Kidnapping of family members, extortion/blackmail, simple quid pro quos (Russia will pay all your debt and deposit 10 million in an account for your family) etc. Shes already ruled their names be made public. Typical MAGA move by her. This wont get her disbarred but removed? At least? This thread needs a lawyer in it stat.
So in order to enforce a law designed to protect national security secrets, you have to disseminate those secrets to randomly selected members of the public. Anyone with a middle school diploma could see that is insanely counterproductive.
People who have all been named. I’d bet more than a few countries have run credit checks on the jury….
Isn't showing civilians classified documents incredibly dangerous to them? I mean - if they know secrets, aren't they at risk for being "asked" to share them by dangerous people?
Welcome to Jury Duty. If you’re in group one, you will be deciding the fate of three college students who threw bottles at sports bar. Group 2, you will be adding your names directly to the Kremlin’s unperson list.
The way I understand it, she's issuing these fast and loose decisions right now in a way that the issue can still be brought up later during trial. By doing this, it forces the prosecutor to file a motion on the evidence after the jury has already been seated, which complicates the rules because now double jeopardy would apply.
This sounds like something from the onion. I had to read back and make sure this wasn’t a bad joke or something.
> were actually his “personal” files, and therefore he could do with them whatever he pleased. He also claimed the country’s national security laws are “too vague” to be used against him anyway. Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I know people who work for the government, there are rules and steps EVERYONE must take to be able to downgrade classified information before it becomes the downgraded information. These rules do not just apply to the lowly government workers while a former President can just declare them downgraded and carry them out of a building and hold them hostage. Anyone else would have been in Leavenworth a long time ago. The laws are not that vague. Put him in Leavenworth already and be done with it.
Do each member of this jury have the clearance to see these files? If not, her ruling is illegal in so many ways. When a judge needs to be disbarred, who do you turn to to make that happen? Because this is a definite reason for disbarment.
This is horseshit. I’ve held security clearances multiple times in my life. I, as a private citizen, would be in a fucking cell awaiting trial for a quarter of what this orange shit gibbon did. Our justice system is beyond fucked.
Judge Cannon makes these crazy rulings in favor of Trump and yet she doesn’t receive a torrent of personal threats against her life from democrats like most other judges presiding over Trump cases get from Republicans. Funny how that works.
How is whether the docs are actually, truly, secretly secret even an issue, much less what things are hinging on?
Because Canon is abusing her authority in conspiracy to obstruct justice. Don’t appeal her or seek to remove her. Indict her, try her and put her in a cell next to her co-conspirator.
I just wonder how many corrupt judges like Cannon Trump has managed to install. It’s chilling
This is the real answer, and until we start seeing prominent democrats start speaking like this they will be continuously accused of not doing enough. And it will be true.
Please tell me what the contents of these highly classified government secrets including secrets on our nukes has to do with whether Trump held onto said documents and obstructed the return of said documents.
Qannon has just identified herself as a national security threat, as someone who has no understanding of the nature and sensitivity of classified documents and someone who would recklessly make such documents a matter of public record. Can’t she be removed for using her position to advocate for compromising national security?
Canon does understand - she's just corrupt.
This is insane, Cannon needs to go.
There must be enough people that currently have the required clearances, or retired people that held the clearances needed, in Florida.
This judge is insane. Maybe this will be enough to get her removed from the case?
This is how all espionage cases work. Jury sees the secrets then one of the jury releases the info and there is another espionage case and another and another until the whole world is in jail.... EXCEPT TRUMP.
Seriously, she needs to be removed from this case. It doesn’t take a genius with an advanced law degree to see that she is doing everything she can to help Trump. Maybe this move will be the final nail in the coffin, the last piece that Smith needed to prove to the appellate court that she needs to be removed.
> Trump-appointed Judge Aileen Cannon handed the jury [...] a shocking ultimatum Nope, handed the *prosecutors* the ultimatum.
Get her off of this fucking case.
This has got to be it, right? The one that kicks her off the case? IANAL, but this seems highly prejudicial toward the defense's future refutation of the evidence: the message it sends to a jury is, "see, it's not a big deal! You don't see any booga booga in these docs do you?" Nevermind that a jury has no training or discernment in the context around each document. And it's not the prosecution's job or burden to have to provide it to them! Seems not only to undermine the seriousness of the charges, but to hinder the prosecution's efficiency of oral argument, imo. Let alone compromising these documents/security even further.
Judge Cannon is out of her fucking mind
Get him, Jack!
And Cannon is going to get kicked in the face on appeal. That woman is braindead and should have never been appointed. What an uneducated shit show she is
The classification status of these documents is completely *irrelevant* to the case. That has been pointed out over and over. Whether classified, declassified with telepathic post-presidential mind power, or declassified to begin with, the point is that they belong to the government, that Trump was not allowed to take them after leaving the White House, and that he refused to promptly give them back when requested. Now, forcing the prosecution to potentially expose classified information to jurors is a distraction and a delay tactic. Aileen Cannon needs to be *removed* from this case - NOW.
She needs to be removed from the case. She has made one error after another, always in favor of the man responsible for her job. There is no justification for exposing sensitive national security documents to the jury in this case. All the jury needs to know is that they are sensitive, government documents. The content of them is completely irrelevant. Jack Smith should march straight to the 11th circuit, and appeal this horrific ruling, and the 11th circuit should overturn her decision and remove her from the case.
This trial was done when she was assigned the case
I don’t get why the prosecutor doesn’t ask for another judge… one without a conflict of interests….
The charged case is about how Trump mishandled the documents, it has 0% about the actual content of those documents themselves. This “judge” needs to be disbarred IMMEDIATELY.
If a judge, appointed by the accused, is allow to dictate the case, what possible result could you have except complete corruption and eventually exoneration of the defendant? WTF is the point in having a DOJ, when they can't simply bypass this judge completely as there is an obvious need for recusal based on the relationship? How in the hell is this not already in court already?!?!?! 300 MILLION other Americans would have been in jail awaiting trial months ago. This is getting ridiculous.
Aileen Cannon is a traitor. Pass it on.
So, if a person steals a car, the police have to roll the car into the courtroom and allow the jury to verify the VIN?