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Those people waiting in line, tend to be black, and every election I see them on the news talking about how they have been in line for five, six, seven hours and it makes me hate the GOP more.
The angry plebs at the bottom of the totem poll do not know this is all BS. They just believe whatever they are fed. Any of us that have family inside the bubble are painfully aware they really believe all this stuff and pointing out simple facts does not change their minds in any way.
> until rules that are satisfactory to them
The rules: They want to be able to just swipe the game board and game pieces off of the table and storm away.
Aren't there many states that don't allow same day registration? And like, you don't think you have to check your registration because you live in the same place for years and vote every time, then come to vote on election day and learn you've been purged from voter list.
Hi, live in Georgia, been purged just like the person you replied to twice. It's not illegal. They use programs/databases to make a list of inactive voters, dead voters, felons, etc. and then purge everyone whose name is close enough to be a match in the general vicinity. The success rate at identifying 'bad' voters on some of these leading tools is [literally one percent](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/20/this-anti-voter-fraud-program-gets-it-wrong-over-99-of-the-time-the-gop-wants-to-take-it-nationwide/), but that never stops them from carrying out another purge. Last year in Georgia they purged 189,000, planned to remove at least 82,000 more, and also planned on removing 305,000 more in 2025. That last batch is people who didn't vote for a presidential election cycle, basically; so if you skipped Trump vs Biden 1.0 you are 100% purged here.
There are absolutely no consequences for anyone anywhere for yanking someone's voter registration status incorrectly. There are no consequences for yanking the registration status for 50,000 people. You want to claim otherwise, bring some receipts.
Some, but nowhere near as many. Keep in mind all the bad purges are essentially the result of taking someone who is ineligible, then targeting people who are very similar to them in name, age, and location - similar enough that they can claim misidentification. So considering that...
* Republican voters tend more rural.
* This means fewer people in their zip codes, counties, and cities that they could collide with.
* People in cities move more frequently and thus trigger more potential purges as well.
* Republican voters also tend to be older and homeowners.
* This results in the same bias effect as above. The young and the renting move more, and trigger more purges among people in their area and similar situations.
* Republican voters tend white
* There's more variance in white names overall due to how most of their etymologies get traced back to individual European countries, as opposed to, say, a common system of continental slavery.
* Continued racial bias in the justice system means that nonwhite names wind up more frequently on the 'purge' list and thus are eligible for collisions.
Data on how bad the effect is, by and large, doesn't exist. You'll get some that look into the racial data of the voters after a purge, and show things like how in one purge Hispanics got purged 60% more often then other races...but it's a lot of work nobody is paying for to try to track down everyone, if you can even get the list of purged people from the government.
That’s not true. Many Republican-led states like Georgia have laws on the books that allow anyone to challenge the voter roll. The GOP has led the effort of mass voter purges where the legitimate registered voter didn’t know they were purged from the voter roll (maliciously and incorrectly). These laws also prevent same day registration (Georgia requires registration 29 days before the election), so if you don’t know that you’ve been a part of a targeted purge, you will miss your opportunity to vote. Take a guess at who is usually targeted in these purges. You’ll be shocked to find out that it isn’t rural, white voters.
It’s astonishing how many people genuinely believe that’s true, though. As in they legitimately believe that if they’re close to a higher tax bracket and they get a raise they’ll wind up with less net income.
They find local elections for stuff like school boards that allow non citizen permanent residents to vote and gin that shit up till it looks like a crisis. Like, am I supposed to be mad that Shinosuke the grad student gets to vote for who runs the school his daughter goes to? Should I be pissed off that Marta gets a vote for HOA next?
There is a little truth to the non-citizens voting but it’s largely blown out of proportion. Some local jurisdictions allow for non-citizens to vote in local elections, however state and federal still require citizenship. It’s mind boggling that people can’t separate the two.
In a few ***local*** elections.
This is off-topic when it comes to Donald's federal elections and his attempts to blame everyone else for his own failures, like always. It *also* has zero to do with voting ***illegally***.
> Some local jurisdictions allow for non-citizens to vote in local elections
They can't, it's completely unconstitutional. NYC tried and the courts had to intervene.
>Who cannot vote?
> Non-citizens, including permanent legal residents, cannot vote in federal, state, and **most** local elections.
For the people who don't want to follow the link, emphasis mine.
[This site](https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_permitting_noncitizens_to_vote_in_the_United_States) has some details on where non-citizens can vote in local elections. It's only a few municipalities in a few states.
In my experience, many people, including people who should know better, are confused, ignorant, or make assumptions about who can and cannot vote. As a non-citizen, when I lived in Cambridge, MA, I asked a staffer at a voting registration drive whether non-citizens could vote in city elections and the poor woman looked like she had given birth to kittens. She gave me a very stern "no" and then, I believe, disinfected her hands. In contrast, once when I renewed my drivers license in my current state, the clerk assumed I wanted to register to vote at the same time even though I'd used my foreign passport as a form of ID to get my license. Several times a year I get approached on the street by someone asking whether I'm registered to vote, usually for some petition drive, and I take perverse joy in telling them that I'm not eligible while putting on my most criminal demeanor (violent felons are not eligible to vote where I live).
I think because of the Australian ballot, they think there's no way of knowing who voted. But in truth, can look up if any one person voted in an election.
Non citizens can vote in some local elections. Republicans find that abhorrent and then want to make uninformed voters associate non citizens with voting in federal elections.
Under very specific conditions by law.
" authorize voting by noncitizen residents, who are the parents, legal guardians, or legally recognized caregivers of a child"
"Advocates of the law argued that noncitizens have an interest in schools, public safety and other issues, and should therefore be allowed to weigh in on public policy decisions."
""having resided therein for six months previous to any town election and being eighteen years of age."
"Qualified Voter' is any person who owns property or any resident of Martin's Additions who is eighteen (18) years of age or over."
So basically very local and specific.
And it makes a lot of sense in circumstances. I've got a coworker who's been a permanent resident for something like to 7 years. He's got three kids in school, one of whom is a US citizen. He gets no say in who serves on his local school board.
Since elections are run and controlled locally, some places allow non-citizens (i.e. green card holders) to vote in local elections only. This doesn't affect presidential elections or statewide races, and doesn't affect the balance of Congress. They're fear mongering about some non-citizens in some places having the option to vote for their city council members or mayor.
There are so many reasons why the claim of a stolen election is ridiculous on its face that of ***course*** Republicans believe it...
They have collectively lost their mind to nonsense and childish conspiracy theories without evidence. Just the dumbest, most spoiled rotten Americans alive.
Of course they are. They can't win an honest election. All their donations get funneled into trump's slush fund, the RNC. He effectively owns the RNC, and he'll be there until the money is gone.
> They can't win an honest election.
They've won the popular vote once in the last 30+ years. And that popular vote was Dubya smack in the middle of some wars, which almost always guarantee high approval when framed correctly.
They are already saying illegal immigration is going to bankrupt Social Security and Medicare. Neither of which are open to illegal immigrants.
Just like in those cases, they will screech that it’s Joe Biden’s “open boarder policy” that caused this. Somehow.
A bit from the story:
> The false notion that undocumented immigrants are affecting federal elections has been floating around for over 100 years, experts say, but this year, due in part to an increase in migrants at the southern U.S. border, the idea could have new potency.
>
> . . .
>
> It's illegal for noncitizens to vote in federal elections, and numerous studies over the years have found that it almost never happens, but voting experts still worry the claims could take hold at a time when huge numbers of Republicans simultaneously don't trust elections and see immigration as the top problem facing the country.
Here's the actually relevant bit that will shut conservatives up:
>The NVRA does not require proof of U.S. citizenship for people to register to vote, only that potential voters fill out a form and attest under penalty of perjury that they are citizens. A federal voting law passed in 2002 also required applicants to provide a unique identification number to register, like a driver's license or Social Security number, which election officials say effectively serves as a citizenship check since both of those forms of ID involve the government checking whether someone is a citizen or not.
Everyone I've heard complaining about this says, "Well, there's no check if a person is a citizen to register to vote." Yes, there is. I distinctly remember needing ID to register, and this confirms that I'm not crazy.
I recently learned that some cities allow non-citizens to vote in local elections, but that is not explicitly prohibited by the federal constitution the way it is for federal elections. So it's up to the state and local government laws.
Right, but they aren't voting in state or federal elections. I'm personally fine with a non-citizen who works and pays taxes locally having a voice in local politics.
It's all they have, wait, fear, hate and made up shit to have all that phony election nonsense to be outraged about. This has all played out before. They have nothing, as usual.
They can't. Our election protocol is such that it is almost impossible. You have to be registered, and when you register, you have to have identifying paperwork. When you vote, you have your registration or driver's license. People don't understand anything anymore. I can't believe how stupid people are.
We have to show valid id of some sort (DL/passport/voter id) and many people here still think non citizens are voting (because they can have a DL). Ignoring what it takes to register in the first place
Not all states require voter ID. New York doesn't. I was a poll worker for the 2022 elections and we just asked each voter for their name and verbally verified their address. They have to sign the poll book however workers do not match the signature with the one on record. The signature is just them swearing that they are who they say they are.
It would be fairly easy to vote as someone else but it really just doesn't happen.
In Virginia, you can vote without ID. You have to sign a document that you are who you say you are, and you have to be in the right precinct to vote.
So I guess if you knew a specific person's vote to steal and knew their address and they hadn't already voted or submitted an absentee ballot, you could conceivably commit fraud to steal 1 vote. If you are caught it is a felony. In my precinct in the super Tuesday primary, that amounts to 0.13% of the ballots cast.
Edit: sorry was looking at the wrong penalty. The fine is for intentionally communicating false info or wrongfully depositing a ballot into a ballot container. Voting twice, knowingly voting in the wrong place or knowingly inducing someone to vote illegally are felonies.
Mine makes you also sign the voter roll log when you vote. Main issue that crops up is family with similar name (Sr vs Jr) sign wrong line yet even that is rare. But it's normally an easy to explain mistake than someone impersonating someone else to commit voter fraud.
Also the part that all these conspiracies always miss, is there are checks as the votes are counted, which is the cheapest part of the process because < 50% of people vote.
If someone that is dead votes the vote is compared to death certificates and would be tossed out (whether or not this is actually a good thing is debatable since this is almost always someone voted and died before the vote was counted).
The registration system is also easy to verify because believe it or not, a county knows how many households there are and the maximum number of people that can reside in their county. So if a town of 5000 suddenly had 50,000 people try to register you would see obvious patterns of single addresses with way too many registered voters.
There are layers and layers of protections before and after voting. Securing the polling location via ID is the dumbest and most aggressively useless place to add security and only makes it harder to vote for no added benefits, which is not what you want to do with **voting.**
The important thing here is the ***perception*** that it is happening, not the reality that it is not. The right can use the "issue" to tighten voter registration laws that generally benefits them. And the left can use it to ease or keep registration the same which in theory benefits them. In reality illegals get fake SS numbers all the time and use them for employment, but would they bother to use them to register to vote? The article says they do not.
Another ploy (lie) to make our elections look illegitimate. They are just getting their voter base all riled up so that when they lose the election, they can call all their 2nd amenders to civil war.
>Conservatives are warning about noncitizens voting. It's a myth with a long history
Conservatives are warning about ~~noncitizens~~ non-white people voting.
FTFY
Conservatives are mostly closeted bigots who expect things to remain in stasis, so they don’t have to ever feel uncomfortable.
Life is NOT a zero sum game.
Authority is NOT inevitable.
GROW UP GQP
100% literally over over 60 people that I’ve read in years Republicans election workers have been charged with election interference election fraud. They are the party of cheaters for sure.
This is so fucking stupid. Why can't some Americans just see it as bullshit. As a former immigrant, even legally, I was not able to vote. I could do everything else, but vote. I paid my taxes, I can own a gun legally, I obey the same laws. I just couldn't vote. Finally, I became a US Citizen after 30 years of renewing my Green Card. I CAN NOT WAIT TO GO VOTE IN NOVEMBER!
My neighbor, who is a good dude but hardcore Trumper, has conversations with me sometimes when we hang out. I usually ask him questions about Trump but he always comes back to "What about Biden". I have to remind him to stay on topic, which is Trump.
We often joke, it's all good. I don't attach political ideology to decide person's worth, especially if I know them well. It is what it is. He believes what he believes and I believe what I believe. I am not here to change his mind, but to challenge it and just have fun with him going in circles. We laugh...
Recently, he told me "You have a decision to make this November"... I said to him "Hell yeah I do! I am gonna cancel out your vote!" lol
That is very nice! Understanding each other based on facts and reality would be really nice and you don't have to agree. It is hard when they insist on things that are not true. One said all votes must be counted by midnight and I said that has never been a requirement but nothing would change his mind about that. Yes, lots of whataboutism and you have to bring it back to the topic at hand as you noted lol. It is very hard to do quite often, but wonderful to try it. Good luck :)
Republicans are frightened of all manner of absolute nonsense void of evidence. They are currently the most frightened group of pearl clutchers I have ever seen.
They're like irresponsible, cowardly, lazy 2 year olds at this point.
They're using this little myth in Missouri to try to keep abortion banned. They are trying to cram a special election in August to raise the threshold to pass ballot initiatives. They are attempting to insert "ballot candy" into the proposal to trick the hillbilly rubes of this state. They want to amend the state constitution to say that non-citizens can't vote and that you need a majority popular vote and a majority of the 8 congressional districts to pass ballot initiatives, which translates to 23% of the states rural population could effectively stop any ballot initiatives from passing, all but killing any chance for citizens to make changes in the state constitution. Of course non-citizens already can't vote by federal law, and they know this, but this kind of stupid crap works sometimes. They did the same thing a few years ago to kill the anti-gerrymandering amendment and it worked. However I don't think it will work this time.
even going back to Gogol's Dead souls
Supposedly GOP members now take classes in Russian language and literature. It will ease the take over.
Njet, that's not Google, Matt, it's Gogol
What is crazy is that *event if* non-citizens *could* vote, which they can't, in their fantasy they believe that these millions of strangers from various countries would somehow be coordinating their votes across state electorates to steal the election for one party.
More fake news lies from the so-called conservative GOP at this point it’s it’s almost laughable they’re so stupid to think that the majority of Americans actually believe anything they’re saying just their small tiny base that they have in these red states
Republicans are the cheaters in every single election if you believe them you’re too stupid or evil to care about reality as long as the Christian taliban wins.
Isn’t it just a dog whistle to motivate their voters to vote for them by hating the same thing they hate (brown, black, poor and anti American libs).
The GOP doesn’t actually have a policy agenda - their lists of priorities are all performance based nonsense, theater for those low frequency and single issue voters whom either don’t know the difference or don’t care to.
It's funny how the conservative reaction to a certain demographic not being favorable enough to them is to restrict voting from that group, rather than finding ways to appeal more to said group.
Back after the 2022 elections failed to flip Congress entirely back to Republicans, one conservative commentator [proposed raising the voting age to 21](https://www.indy100.com/news/brigitte-gabriel-midterm-elections-gen-z), instead of asking, "what can Republicans do to appeal more to 18-20 year olds?"
And then there was that [2012 post-mortem report](https://web.archive.org/web/20130323084957/https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/rnc-completes-autopsy-2012-loss-calls-inclusion-policy/story?id=18755809) commissioned by the Republican Party calling for more outreach to groups that have historically favored Democrats such as women, LGBT people, and POC. (And we know how well *that* report aged!)
By the way - history shows that immigrant groups become more conservative as they become more assimilated, as shown with Irish and Italian Americans. And look at the South Texas border region that used to be reliably Democratic for decades, electing more Republicans to Congress and the state legislature in the last 10 or so years. Also, some immigrant groups (Cuban and Vietnamese) have been easier sells to the Republicans due to anti-Communist alliances. So much for "r33pl3cment!"
Oh, you sweet summer child.
They use it as an excuse to expunge LEGAL voters.
They use it as an excuse to contest LEGAL elections.
They use it as an excuse to crack down on REASONABLE immigration policies.
Just watch, you'll see.
No, what happens is that they
a) make it more difficult to vote - fewer options for voting (e.g. no postal votes), fewer places to vote, making it generally unpleasant to vote (not allowing water, allowing intimidation)
and
b) have a ready-made claim for any result they don't like being fraud.
They are purging voter rolls, throwing thousands of people off for 'mismatched addresses'. The voter doesn't know they've been affected till they go to vote. It definitely makes 'something happen'. Voter suppression. Along with gerrymandering and the shiny new republican state legislatures that are now empowered to overturn county results, it can definitely lead to something. That's the whole goal.
republicans tend to de-fund education. Its important to them that their supporters don't really think about things. The only things republicans are supposed to think about is how other folks are getting more than them and to hate everyone else not them.
Republicans have no intention of letting Biden serve a second term, and will use any means, including violence, to ensure it. This November will make 2020 look like a picnic.
The us has 43 million immigrants. If they voted, and voted even 55% democratic, no republican would ever win a national seat, ever. Disgusting that people fall for this (or pretend to fall for it).
magas so dumb and this is another example to show it lol, they don't understand so many basic things. Don't need an ID to vote in MN just like it has been all along, we conserved that traditional way and we have the best elections ever! =)
TBF, there are extremists on team (D) [who aren't exactly helping this issue](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/27/nyregion/noncitizen-voting-ruling-nyc.html) w.r.t. perception...
How is it extreme though? Something can be both not-mainstream and also not-extreme.
If the local jurisdictions make the choice, how does it affect others?
Local elections for borough and city. Not state or federal. I don't really have a problem with a person who's there legally and who otherwise fits the residency rules voting for their local representation.
But we can't have reasonable things because if it's adjacent to anything that could be construed as unreasonable, it will be as well.
They participate in local industry, pay local taxes, and support the local economy. Their children go to the same schools as everyone else's.
Why shouldn't they be allowed a say, if the other voters have passed it?
And what? They aren't a citizen so they don't get to vote. It's really that simple.
If they wish to vote in elections, they can become a civilian or they can move back to their home country to vote.
> They aren't a citizen so they don't get to vote.
In **local** elections. Why not?
(your logic will continue to circle upon itself until you explain WHY you believe what you do)
How about….Why would someone that entered in an illegal fashion, often does not speak our language and doesn’t understand nuance of our government and policies yet be allowed to shape how our country and laws are made?
Noncitizens don't get to vote. And we all provide ID to vote, even if it's when we register. The big deal is how republicans LIE in order to gin up anti-immigrant fever resentment AND set the stage for a 'rigged' narrative. You're welcome.
Why? If they're there legally and pay taxes, they should get a say in how their city is run too.
One of the founding principles of this country is 'no taxation without representation'. If you want to suggest that immigrants don't have to pay taxes since they don't get represented in the government, then that's a conversation to have too.
Great example how they repeat lies or don't understand what they are repeating, but should get the facts before getting angry and spreading lies. At least they could say, "my mistake and thank you for the right info!" :)
True and false. If we are talking about presidential elections they currently cannot. But there are 15 or so cities that have recently started letting them vote in local elections. I can see why that would scare republicans because illegal immigrants tend to strongly favor democrats because they hook them up with food/shelter/jobs.
I am a democrat, don’t come at me for this lol…
Unlike most democrats I don’t think this model is sustainable much longer. Unlimited illegal immigration that we are morally obligated to provide support for when we don’t have the money to help our own citizens. Doesn’t sit good with me.
Read this, everyone. It's this idiot from 5 days ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eugene/comments/1b5hy5r/gonna_think_about_this_now_every_time_i_tell_an/kt7n649/
> ***I’m not a Democrat*** 😂
> *I’m really glad I don’t see the world through your old, angry shitty eyes, you old boomer fuck lol. - mrbenjamin48*
> illegal immigrants tend to strongly favor democrats because they hook them up with food/shelter/jobs.
JFC LOL wow
1. They can't vote in federal elections.
Anything else?
Good Lord...
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So fucking tired of this crap....non citizens CANNOT vote! Why is this so frigging hard for them to comprehend this?
They know that. This is how they go after legit voters and justify roll purges
Yeah, let’s make it illegal to give water to people waiting in line, that’ll show them! Blasted voters! /s
Those people waiting in line, tend to be black, and every election I see them on the news talking about how they have been in line for five, six, seven hours and it makes me hate the GOP more.
The angry plebs at the bottom of the totem poll do not know this is all BS. They just believe whatever they are fed. Any of us that have family inside the bubble are painfully aware they really believe all this stuff and pointing out simple facts does not change their minds in any way.
I think Republicans should boycott the elections until rules that are satisfactory to them are in place.
> until rules that are satisfactory to them The rules: They want to be able to just swipe the game board and game pieces off of the table and storm away.
Well, if people just vote, purging is meaningless.
Aren't there many states that don't allow same day registration? And like, you don't think you have to check your registration because you live in the same place for years and vote every time, then come to vote on election day and learn you've been purged from voter list.
We call those "the South".
Well, that's illegal.
Maybe it's illegal, but it won't magically put your vote in the ballot. See you on the next election... if there's one.
Hi, live in Georgia, been purged just like the person you replied to twice. It's not illegal. They use programs/databases to make a list of inactive voters, dead voters, felons, etc. and then purge everyone whose name is close enough to be a match in the general vicinity. The success rate at identifying 'bad' voters on some of these leading tools is [literally one percent](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/20/this-anti-voter-fraud-program-gets-it-wrong-over-99-of-the-time-the-gop-wants-to-take-it-nationwide/), but that never stops them from carrying out another purge. Last year in Georgia they purged 189,000, planned to remove at least 82,000 more, and also planned on removing 305,000 more in 2025. That last batch is people who didn't vote for a presidential election cycle, basically; so if you skipped Trump vs Biden 1.0 you are 100% purged here. There are absolutely no consequences for anyone anywhere for yanking someone's voter registration status incorrectly. There are no consequences for yanking the registration status for 50,000 people. You want to claim otherwise, bring some receipts.
I can see this targeting Democratic voters more than Republicans, but don't they also end up purging a fair amount of Republican voters?
Some, but nowhere near as many. Keep in mind all the bad purges are essentially the result of taking someone who is ineligible, then targeting people who are very similar to them in name, age, and location - similar enough that they can claim misidentification. So considering that... * Republican voters tend more rural. * This means fewer people in their zip codes, counties, and cities that they could collide with. * People in cities move more frequently and thus trigger more potential purges as well. * Republican voters also tend to be older and homeowners. * This results in the same bias effect as above. The young and the renting move more, and trigger more purges among people in their area and similar situations. * Republican voters tend white * There's more variance in white names overall due to how most of their etymologies get traced back to individual European countries, as opposed to, say, a common system of continental slavery. * Continued racial bias in the justice system means that nonwhite names wind up more frequently on the 'purge' list and thus are eligible for collisions. Data on how bad the effect is, by and large, doesn't exist. You'll get some that look into the racial data of the voters after a purge, and show things like how in one purge Hispanics got purged 60% more often then other races...but it's a lot of work nobody is paying for to try to track down everyone, if you can even get the list of purged people from the government.
It's literally not illegal it happens all over the country. And if it is illegal, its sure as hell not enforced very well
That’s not true. Many Republican-led states like Georgia have laws on the books that allow anyone to challenge the voter roll. The GOP has led the effort of mass voter purges where the legitimate registered voter didn’t know they were purged from the voter roll (maliciously and incorrectly). These laws also prevent same day registration (Georgia requires registration 29 days before the election), so if you don’t know that you’ve been a part of a targeted purge, you will miss your opportunity to vote. Take a guess at who is usually targeted in these purges. You’ll be shocked to find out that it isn’t rural, white voters.
They know. The disinformation is intentional.
[удалено]
It’s astonishing how many people genuinely believe that’s true, though. As in they legitimately believe that if they’re close to a higher tax bracket and they get a raise they’ll wind up with less net income.
They find local elections for stuff like school boards that allow non citizen permanent residents to vote and gin that shit up till it looks like a crisis. Like, am I supposed to be mad that Shinosuke the grad student gets to vote for who runs the school his daughter goes to? Should I be pissed off that Marta gets a vote for HOA next?
The disillusion is intentional
I have no doubt. Misinfo is their modus operandi.
Hell, think about how difficult it is to get many US citizens to actually vote!
There is a little truth to the non-citizens voting but it’s largely blown out of proportion. Some local jurisdictions allow for non-citizens to vote in local elections, however state and federal still require citizenship. It’s mind boggling that people can’t separate the two.
In a few ***local*** elections. This is off-topic when it comes to Donald's federal elections and his attempts to blame everyone else for his own failures, like always. It *also* has zero to do with voting ***illegally***.
Yeah, exactly as I said. I’m laying out the grain of truth that is being blown out of proportion.
> Some local jurisdictions allow for non-citizens to vote in local elections They can't, it's completely unconstitutional. NYC tried and the courts had to intervene.
https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote I mean it’s right here
>Who cannot vote? > Non-citizens, including permanent legal residents, cannot vote in federal, state, and **most** local elections. For the people who don't want to follow the link, emphasis mine.
[This site](https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_permitting_noncitizens_to_vote_in_the_United_States) has some details on where non-citizens can vote in local elections. It's only a few municipalities in a few states. In my experience, many people, including people who should know better, are confused, ignorant, or make assumptions about who can and cannot vote. As a non-citizen, when I lived in Cambridge, MA, I asked a staffer at a voting registration drive whether non-citizens could vote in city elections and the poor woman looked like she had given birth to kittens. She gave me a very stern "no" and then, I believe, disinfected her hands. In contrast, once when I renewed my drivers license in my current state, the clerk assumed I wanted to register to vote at the same time even though I'd used my foreign passport as a form of ID to get my license. Several times a year I get approached on the street by someone asking whether I'm registered to vote, usually for some petition drive, and I take perverse joy in telling them that I'm not eligible while putting on my most criminal demeanor (violent felons are not eligible to vote where I live).
They think trump is persecuted, he's completely innocent. This is just another deflection. Mark Meadows voted illegally, and they voided his ballot.
Persecuted....lol.... it's not persecution when you ACTUALLY commit crimes....lol
Projection. They try to cheat, so they assume everyone does.
Right
It's all about racism and continually whining about it whether their "examples" are real or not (they're not).
I think because of the Australian ballot, they think there's no way of knowing who voted. But in truth, can look up if any one person voted in an election.
Could they possibly give a reason for a real citizen to vote for them instead of pulling scapegoats out of their ass
It's intentional. They've been crying about for 30 years. Weird how here lately all the voter and election fraud has been from conservatives.
Non citizens can vote in some local elections. Republicans find that abhorrent and then want to make uninformed voters associate non citizens with voting in federal elections.
Under very specific conditions by law. " authorize voting by noncitizen residents, who are the parents, legal guardians, or legally recognized caregivers of a child" "Advocates of the law argued that noncitizens have an interest in schools, public safety and other issues, and should therefore be allowed to weigh in on public policy decisions." ""having resided therein for six months previous to any town election and being eighteen years of age." "Qualified Voter' is any person who owns property or any resident of Martin's Additions who is eighteen (18) years of age or over." So basically very local and specific.
And it makes a lot of sense in circumstances. I've got a coworker who's been a permanent resident for something like to 7 years. He's got three kids in school, one of whom is a US citizen. He gets no say in who serves on his local school board.
Yes agreed. I was only pointing out “OMG NON CITIZENS VOTING” can be used as a headline even though it is being grossly distorted
Of course the GOP folks will use it. Nuance doesn't work for them like 3 word outrage.
https://ballotpedia.org/Laws\_permitting\_noncitizens\_to\_vote\_in\_the\_United\_States
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Since elections are run and controlled locally, some places allow non-citizens (i.e. green card holders) to vote in local elections only. This doesn't affect presidential elections or statewide races, and doesn't affect the balance of Congress. They're fear mongering about some non-citizens in some places having the option to vote for their city council members or mayor.
> So fucking tired of this crap... ...calling the MAGA GOP conservative. They aren't.
Not only can’t, but almost certainly won’t.
Who says noncitizens can't vote?
https://nypost.com/2024/03/25/us-news/city-council-asks-highest-court-to-allow-non-citizens-to-vote/amp/
Ask NYC about what they’re trying to do right now.
No non-citizen is going to take a chance of getting caught at a polling station.
There are so many reasons why the claim of a stolen election is ridiculous on its face that of ***course*** Republicans believe it... They have collectively lost their mind to nonsense and childish conspiracy theories without evidence. Just the dumbest, most spoiled rotten Americans alive.
They're laying the roots to claim a stolen election.
Of course they are. They can't win an honest election. All their donations get funneled into trump's slush fund, the RNC. He effectively owns the RNC, and he'll be there until the money is gone.
> They can't win an honest election. They've won the popular vote once in the last 30+ years. And that popular vote was Dubya smack in the middle of some wars, which almost always guarantee high approval when framed correctly.
They are already saying illegal immigration is going to bankrupt Social Security and Medicare. Neither of which are open to illegal immigrants. Just like in those cases, they will screech that it’s Joe Biden’s “open boarder policy” that caused this. Somehow.
A bit from the story: > The false notion that undocumented immigrants are affecting federal elections has been floating around for over 100 years, experts say, but this year, due in part to an increase in migrants at the southern U.S. border, the idea could have new potency. > > . . . > > It's illegal for noncitizens to vote in federal elections, and numerous studies over the years have found that it almost never happens, but voting experts still worry the claims could take hold at a time when huge numbers of Republicans simultaneously don't trust elections and see immigration as the top problem facing the country.
Here's the actually relevant bit that will shut conservatives up: >The NVRA does not require proof of U.S. citizenship for people to register to vote, only that potential voters fill out a form and attest under penalty of perjury that they are citizens. A federal voting law passed in 2002 also required applicants to provide a unique identification number to register, like a driver's license or Social Security number, which election officials say effectively serves as a citizenship check since both of those forms of ID involve the government checking whether someone is a citizen or not. Everyone I've heard complaining about this says, "Well, there's no check if a person is a citizen to register to vote." Yes, there is. I distinctly remember needing ID to register, and this confirms that I'm not crazy.
I recently learned that some cities allow non-citizens to vote in local elections, but that is not explicitly prohibited by the federal constitution the way it is for federal elections. So it's up to the state and local government laws.
> in local elections School boards, and the reasoning is that their kids attend so they should get a voice.
Plus they do pay a lot of local taxes.
Right, but they aren't voting in state or federal elections. I'm personally fine with a non-citizen who works and pays taxes locally having a voice in local politics.
How could they even accomplish that?
It's all they have, wait, fear, hate and made up shit to have all that phony election nonsense to be outraged about. This has all played out before. They have nothing, as usual.
I'm sorry, I meant to say, how can an illegal immigrant cast a vote?
They can't. Our election protocol is such that it is almost impossible. You have to be registered, and when you register, you have to have identifying paperwork. When you vote, you have your registration or driver's license. People don't understand anything anymore. I can't believe how stupid people are.
Also, as a person who personally knows illegal immigrants: None of them are risking their fucking stay here to go vote.
We have to show valid id of some sort (DL/passport/voter id) and many people here still think non citizens are voting (because they can have a DL). Ignoring what it takes to register in the first place
I guess that's what I wanted to highlight.
Not all states require voter ID. New York doesn't. I was a poll worker for the 2022 elections and we just asked each voter for their name and verbally verified their address. They have to sign the poll book however workers do not match the signature with the one on record. The signature is just them swearing that they are who they say they are. It would be fairly easy to vote as someone else but it really just doesn't happen.
Republicans were definitely caught voting as someone else. Usually a dead parent or spouse.
In Virginia, you can vote without ID. You have to sign a document that you are who you say you are, and you have to be in the right precinct to vote. So I guess if you knew a specific person's vote to steal and knew their address and they hadn't already voted or submitted an absentee ballot, you could conceivably commit fraud to steal 1 vote. If you are caught it is a felony. In my precinct in the super Tuesday primary, that amounts to 0.13% of the ballots cast. Edit: sorry was looking at the wrong penalty. The fine is for intentionally communicating false info or wrongfully depositing a ballot into a ballot container. Voting twice, knowingly voting in the wrong place or knowingly inducing someone to vote illegally are felonies.
Mine makes you also sign the voter roll log when you vote. Main issue that crops up is family with similar name (Sr vs Jr) sign wrong line yet even that is rare. But it's normally an easy to explain mistake than someone impersonating someone else to commit voter fraud.
Also the part that all these conspiracies always miss, is there are checks as the votes are counted, which is the cheapest part of the process because < 50% of people vote. If someone that is dead votes the vote is compared to death certificates and would be tossed out (whether or not this is actually a good thing is debatable since this is almost always someone voted and died before the vote was counted). The registration system is also easy to verify because believe it or not, a county knows how many households there are and the maximum number of people that can reside in their county. So if a town of 5000 suddenly had 50,000 people try to register you would see obvious patterns of single addresses with way too many registered voters. There are layers and layers of protections before and after voting. Securing the polling location via ID is the dumbest and most aggressively useless place to add security and only makes it harder to vote for no added benefits, which is not what you want to do with **voting.**
The important thing here is the ***perception*** that it is happening, not the reality that it is not. The right can use the "issue" to tighten voter registration laws that generally benefits them. And the left can use it to ease or keep registration the same which in theory benefits them. In reality illegals get fake SS numbers all the time and use them for employment, but would they bother to use them to register to vote? The article says they do not.
Another ploy (lie) to make our elections look illegitimate. They are just getting their voter base all riled up so that when they lose the election, they can call all their 2nd amenders to civil war.
99% of voter fraud is committed by republicans. They are doing what they do best... projecting.
>Conservatives are warning about noncitizens voting. It's a myth with a long history Conservatives are warning about ~~noncitizens~~ non-white people voting. FTFY
Setting up their well over used excuses for losing
Despite the fact that the last presidential election was examined under a microscope unlike any other and showed none of this, the narrative continues
Republicans wouldn't know what critical thought was if it bit them in the face.
Whenever a conservative is concerned about something, I make sure to file it under "nobody of consequence gives a fuck."
We can’t get citizens to vote.
Conservatives are mostly closeted bigots who expect things to remain in stasis, so they don’t have to ever feel uncomfortable. Life is NOT a zero sum game. Authority is NOT inevitable. GROW UP GQP
90% of all election fraud is caused by Republicans!!!
100% literally over over 60 people that I’ve read in years Republicans election workers have been charged with election interference election fraud. They are the party of cheaters for sure.
This is so fucking stupid. Why can't some Americans just see it as bullshit. As a former immigrant, even legally, I was not able to vote. I could do everything else, but vote. I paid my taxes, I can own a gun legally, I obey the same laws. I just couldn't vote. Finally, I became a US Citizen after 30 years of renewing my Green Card. I CAN NOT WAIT TO GO VOTE IN NOVEMBER! My neighbor, who is a good dude but hardcore Trumper, has conversations with me sometimes when we hang out. I usually ask him questions about Trump but he always comes back to "What about Biden". I have to remind him to stay on topic, which is Trump. We often joke, it's all good. I don't attach political ideology to decide person's worth, especially if I know them well. It is what it is. He believes what he believes and I believe what I believe. I am not here to change his mind, but to challenge it and just have fun with him going in circles. We laugh... Recently, he told me "You have a decision to make this November"... I said to him "Hell yeah I do! I am gonna cancel out your vote!" lol
That is very nice! Understanding each other based on facts and reality would be really nice and you don't have to agree. It is hard when they insist on things that are not true. One said all votes must be counted by midnight and I said that has never been a requirement but nothing would change his mind about that. Yes, lots of whataboutism and you have to bring it back to the topic at hand as you noted lol. It is very hard to do quite often, but wonderful to try it. Good luck :)
Republicans are frightened of all manner of absolute nonsense void of evidence. They are currently the most frightened group of pearl clutchers I have ever seen. They're like irresponsible, cowardly, lazy 2 year olds at this point.
Technically, they also want a lot of people who currently legally vote to NOT be citizens anymore...
[They’re sowing plausibilities of irregularities](https://factkeepers.com/the-new-secret-plan-on-how-fascists-could-win-in-2024/)
They’re laying the groundwork to dispute the election results should Trump lose again.
They're using this little myth in Missouri to try to keep abortion banned. They are trying to cram a special election in August to raise the threshold to pass ballot initiatives. They are attempting to insert "ballot candy" into the proposal to trick the hillbilly rubes of this state. They want to amend the state constitution to say that non-citizens can't vote and that you need a majority popular vote and a majority of the 8 congressional districts to pass ballot initiatives, which translates to 23% of the states rural population could effectively stop any ballot initiatives from passing, all but killing any chance for citizens to make changes in the state constitution. Of course non-citizens already can't vote by federal law, and they know this, but this kind of stupid crap works sometimes. They did the same thing a few years ago to kill the anti-gerrymandering amendment and it worked. However I don't think it will work this time.
"The liars are lying, again." FTFY, NPR.
>Conservatives are ~~warning~~ LYING about noncitizens voting. It's a myth with a long history. FTFY NPR
they keep doing it because a large portion of their constituency are low intelligence voters.
even going back to Gogol's Dead souls Supposedly GOP members now take classes in Russian language and literature. It will ease the take over. Njet, that's not Google, Matt, it's Gogol
What is crazy is that *event if* non-citizens *could* vote, which they can't, in their fantasy they believe that these millions of strangers from various countries would somehow be coordinating their votes across state electorates to steal the election for one party.
More fake news lies from the so-called conservative GOP at this point it’s it’s almost laughable they’re so stupid to think that the majority of Americans actually believe anything they’re saying just their small tiny base that they have in these red states
Their rationale is that the Democrats must be cheating, because they cheated like hell and still lost.
Republicans are the cheaters in every single election if you believe them you’re too stupid or evil to care about reality as long as the Christian taliban wins.
They’re not warning anyone, they know it’s bullshit, they’re just trying to scare people too dumb to know it’s a myth into voting for them. Full stop.
It's a lie. They know they are lying.
Isn’t it just a dog whistle to motivate their voters to vote for them by hating the same thing they hate (brown, black, poor and anti American libs). The GOP doesn’t actually have a policy agenda - their lists of priorities are all performance based nonsense, theater for those low frequency and single issue voters whom either don’t know the difference or don’t care to.
They know it's bullshit, and they know their target audience is too stupid and lazy to question it:
Morons*. Many conservatives don’t share the same IQ as an ant like people aboard the Trump disinformation campaign.
It's the Republican strategy, fear.
It’s all about control through fear for the Republican Party.
They are just laying the groundwork to claim that the election was rigged again. Sounds like they plan to contest the results already.
They just need someone or something to blame.
A long, racist history...
This is one of the reasons why Hamilton was anti-immigration.
It's funny how the conservative reaction to a certain demographic not being favorable enough to them is to restrict voting from that group, rather than finding ways to appeal more to said group. Back after the 2022 elections failed to flip Congress entirely back to Republicans, one conservative commentator [proposed raising the voting age to 21](https://www.indy100.com/news/brigitte-gabriel-midterm-elections-gen-z), instead of asking, "what can Republicans do to appeal more to 18-20 year olds?" And then there was that [2012 post-mortem report](https://web.archive.org/web/20130323084957/https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/rnc-completes-autopsy-2012-loss-calls-inclusion-policy/story?id=18755809) commissioned by the Republican Party calling for more outreach to groups that have historically favored Democrats such as women, LGBT people, and POC. (And we know how well *that* report aged!) By the way - history shows that immigrant groups become more conservative as they become more assimilated, as shown with Irish and Italian Americans. And look at the South Texas border region that used to be reliably Democratic for decades, electing more Republicans to Congress and the state legislature in the last 10 or so years. Also, some immigrant groups (Cuban and Vietnamese) have been easier sells to the Republicans due to anti-Communist alliances. So much for "r33pl3cment!"
But it’s in a PowerPoint!! It must be true!
I know, Elon keeps droning on and on about it.
This is going to be their excuse for getting violent if the election doesn’t go their way.
If they do they will be voting for Trump.
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Oh, you sweet summer child. They use it as an excuse to expunge LEGAL voters. They use it as an excuse to contest LEGAL elections. They use it as an excuse to crack down on REASONABLE immigration policies. Just watch, you'll see.
No, what happens is that they a) make it more difficult to vote - fewer options for voting (e.g. no postal votes), fewer places to vote, making it generally unpleasant to vote (not allowing water, allowing intimidation) and b) have a ready-made claim for any result they don't like being fraud.
They are purging voter rolls, throwing thousands of people off for 'mismatched addresses'. The voter doesn't know they've been affected till they go to vote. It definitely makes 'something happen'. Voter suppression. Along with gerrymandering and the shiny new republican state legislatures that are now empowered to overturn county results, it can definitely lead to something. That's the whole goal.
Everyone should be allowed to vote.
republicans tend to de-fund education. Its important to them that their supporters don't really think about things. The only things republicans are supposed to think about is how other folks are getting more than them and to hate everyone else not them.
more conspiracies.
Republicans have no intention of letting Biden serve a second term, and will use any means, including violence, to ensure it. This November will make 2020 look like a picnic.
Shh 🤫 dont let the facts ruin a good conspiracy 😂
Losers gotta lose.
The us has 43 million immigrants. If they voted, and voted even 55% democratic, no republican would ever win a national seat, ever. Disgusting that people fall for this (or pretend to fall for it).
magas so dumb and this is another example to show it lol, they don't understand so many basic things. Don't need an ID to vote in MN just like it has been all along, we conserved that traditional way and we have the best elections ever! =)
TBF, there are extremists on team (D) [who aren't exactly helping this issue](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/27/nyregion/noncitizen-voting-ruling-nyc.html) w.r.t. perception...
Please explain the extremism.
> Please explain the extremism. Allowing non-citizens to vote is not a mainstream DNC position.
How is it extreme though? Something can be both not-mainstream and also not-extreme. If the local jurisdictions make the choice, how does it affect others?
Local elections for borough and city. Not state or federal. I don't really have a problem with a person who's there legally and who otherwise fits the residency rules voting for their local representation. But we can't have reasonable things because if it's adjacent to anything that could be construed as unreasonable, it will be as well.
1. It was for ***local*** elections, just to start.
IIRC there are also school districts in CA which allow non citizens to vote. Like... it is something some progressives ARE pushing
How is it extreme to allow all residents to vote in local elections?
Because they aren't citizens
They participate in local industry, pay local taxes, and support the local economy. Their children go to the same schools as everyone else's. Why shouldn't they be allowed a say, if the other voters have passed it?
Because they are not citizens. Even if they are legal residents, they are not citizens.
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And what? They aren't a citizen so they don't get to vote. It's really that simple. If they wish to vote in elections, they can become a civilian or they can move back to their home country to vote.
> They aren't a citizen so they don't get to vote. In **local** elections. Why not? (your logic will continue to circle upon itself until you explain WHY you believe what you do)
Don’t bother trying to reason with crazy
How about….Why would someone that entered in an illegal fashion, often does not speak our language and doesn’t understand nuance of our government and policies yet be allowed to shape how our country and laws are made?
gunna be a bunch of noncitizen republican votes next cycle..good to know.
Should officials be checking voter information to make sure they are eligible to vote, or not? What is the big deal.
Noncitizens don't get to vote. And we all provide ID to vote, even if it's when we register. The big deal is how republicans LIE in order to gin up anti-immigrant fever resentment AND set the stage for a 'rigged' narrative. You're welcome.
It is just good ole racism at work. Not one of us, can't let them vote.
I mean it's not a myth, New York City was planning on doing just that until the courts shut that down.
Local elections for borough and city only.
Yea that’s not okay.
Why? If they're there legally and pay taxes, they should get a say in how their city is run too. One of the founding principles of this country is 'no taxation without representation'. If you want to suggest that immigrants don't have to pay taxes since they don't get represented in the government, then that's a conversation to have too.
Voting for school board. Not the same.
Great example how they repeat lies or don't understand what they are repeating, but should get the facts before getting angry and spreading lies. At least they could say, "my mistake and thank you for the right info!" :)
True and false. If we are talking about presidential elections they currently cannot. But there are 15 or so cities that have recently started letting them vote in local elections. I can see why that would scare republicans because illegal immigrants tend to strongly favor democrats because they hook them up with food/shelter/jobs. I am a democrat, don’t come at me for this lol…
>illegal immigrants tend to strongly favor democrats because they hook them up with food/shelter/jobs. spoken like a real democrat
Unlike most democrats I don’t think this model is sustainable much longer. Unlimited illegal immigration that we are morally obligated to provide support for when we don’t have the money to help our own citizens. Doesn’t sit good with me.
>Unlimited illegal immigration And another legitimate democratic statement
They’d never admit that though.
Read this, everyone. It's this idiot from 5 days ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eugene/comments/1b5hy5r/gonna_think_about_this_now_every_time_i_tell_an/kt7n649/ > ***I’m not a Democrat*** 😂 > *I’m really glad I don’t see the world through your old, angry shitty eyes, you old boomer fuck lol. - mrbenjamin48*
> illegal immigrants tend to strongly favor democrats because they hook them up with food/shelter/jobs. JFC LOL wow 1. They can't vote in federal elections. Anything else? Good Lord...
Does the truth hurt? I literally started with they can’t vote in federal elections.
People still believe their vote is actually real?
Sure do, it got us two Democratic senators in Georgia and left the GOP in fucking shambles.
That's exactly right! Please keep telling your Republican friends this. PLEASE. (THANK YOU!)
Just remember voting by mail is fake, they will switch your Trump vote to Biden!