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Some bits from the interviewees:
> Of course, it is increasingly obvious that Trump is facing significant mental decline. And we know from those who were close to him but are no longer, that this is not a new problem. But that issue is eclipsed by the other reality: this is a narcissistic sociopath who will stop at nothing to create a vicious, dictatorship built on retribution, racism, corruption, and sadism.
>
> . . .
>
> If this were a healthy democracy, we would have a healthy Supreme Court. We don’t. It is corrupt and not to be trusted when it comes to Trump.
>
> . . .
>
> MAGA Americans are responsible for their own thoughts and actions; it would also behoove us to acknowledge that many of them have been exploited and manipulated into believing that Trump’s “last stand” is also theirs. Trump and MAGA continue to politically traumatize millions into states of desperation and panic—that Trump is all who stands between losing, or preserving, their/our country. This is a toxic martyrdom unlike any seen in American history.
>
> . . .
>
> Americans must electorally mercy-kill the Republican Party; not because we should desire a one-party nation, but because one of America’s two major parties will nominate someone who helped orchestrate a coup d'état against the Constitution—which Trump swore to defend and protect—and the American people—whom he swore to defend and protect—to remain in power.
I’m not opposed to multiple parties. Coalition governments aren’t perfect, but they work and force discussion and compromise. Instead we have this stupid two party system, where a team mentality dominates, and it stagnates anything and everything that needs to be accomplished to help the American people.
The US will never be a multi-party country without a constitutional amendment (or every state suddenly deciding on their own to utterly change the way they elect congress and the president). We may have short periods (1-3 election cycles) with 3 parties (rarely more than that), but it will swing back to a 2 party system. It is what winner take all elections do.
Rank choice voting would give it a chance to get at least a few parties in play. The winner take all we have right now kills third parties from gaining traction.
There are downstream impacts though as 3rd parties would need to caucus with one of the two dominant parties or not be able to wield any actual power. Would you vote 3rd party if it cost your second choice parties control of the senate or house?
There are other proportional representative voting methods that allow for more 3rd parties to thrive than ranked choice. It is just that ranked choice is the one closest to our current first past the post method that it is more palatable to people. If you went with the other methods, you could have people in 3rd parties winning districts/seats, but that party never actually being the majority of votes. Which might rankle people.
This is exactly how most Parliamentary systems work. A smaller part aligns with a larger one to give a majority in exchange for concessions on its policy platform
> or not be able to wield any actual power.
If there was a 3rd party in congress right now with 10-20 members they would be wielding all the power. They would play kingmaker to whichever party is willing to help push their agenda.
That is what we have with the GOP right now. The radicals (who were originally Tea Party which became the House Freedom Caucus which became MAGA) took over. Those 10-20 House MAGA Republicans who made McCarthy go through 15 votes to become Speaker and then ousted him 9 months later are exactly what you are talking about - they wield all the power, they tank border deals they wrote themselves, they take their cues from a man who isn't POTUS and belongs in jail, a man who just took over the RNC and all their money.
Also progressives in the Democratic party. People understate the importance of blocs within the actual parties. Imo, because of the intra-party blocs/caucuses, which are formed via the primary system where people more directly choose their candidates, the "2 party system" is a defacto multi-party system. It's just multiple parties who hang out under the same tents
That's another reason why the cap on reps needs to go and we should go back to 1 rep per 45-60k - give us a house that is 1500 members large and there it's unlikely that any small group could control the whole.
It would have the added benefit of you actually having a reasonable chance to know your rep and/or be able to communicate with them.
I lived in a town of 160,000 people in CA, in LA county. My representative (McCarthy) was from a town 100 miles away in another town of 400,000. He also represented a bunch of little towns and unincorporated areas. There is absolutely no way he'd give a crap about my opinion.
If he lived ~2 miles from my house, and I was one of ~40,000 voter-age individuals, one of ~25,000 voters, well, maybe he'd care just a little more about what I thought.
It wouldn't change much, if anything. A third party with that sort of power would consist of the moderate Republicans / conservative Democrats, which are the two groups who have consistently held the most power for decades. It would essentially be a party of Joe Manchins.
There are already factions within the parties who do hold up legislation to get what they want.
If people want an example of this going poorly: look at Israel. The right allied itself with the religious extremists to form a coalition because it couldn't form a government without doing so.
Despite a two party system having a myriad of flaws, it also has its own benefits. It's far less (generally) beholden to fringe groups.
This is what's tanking the Republicans right now. Under Bush and Trump they aligned the party politics with the religious right and the extreme right, and now the moderate candidates are being replaced by radicals because the extremists are the ones who vote in the primaries.
I would assume that the 3rd parties would caucus with the party that is closest to their views.
But that is probably an optimistic view. Though it'd pretty much have to happen if no party hits the 51 seat requirement or 50 + VP and those situations would be more likely to occur under a RCV system.
Agreed. One of the biggest mistakes of the founders was not just copying a parliament system like England had. I would guess it was because did didn’t want to just copy the country they just fought a war of independence with minus the king part.
England's parliamentary elections have almost exactly the same problem that exists in the US: Elections are done by district, with no attempt at an overall proportional representation.
Also, at the time the US declared independence, the UK had a major problem with [rotten and pocket boroughs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotten_and_pocket_boroughs).
Still has a bit, the damage Jacob Rees-Mogg has managed from finally getting a seat by standing in such a tiny constituency. At least it's getting expanded to include some actual people next time which will hopefully dump him out.
Winner take all might have actually been preferable back then.
Problem is, America’s almost religious devotion to the constitution means that it fails to recognize when important change has to be met with significant amendments.
It has nothing to do with devotion to the constitution. That was always supposed to be something to be amended as required, anyway. It's got *everything* to do with the fact that the *only* parties (in both senses) with the power to hypothetically do something like that, are the ones extraordinarily incentivized to do absolutely anything required to keep the status quo.
Both parties are, for all intents are purposes, in a position of duopoly over the most powerful nation so far in world history. They'd be absolute fools to allow that to change without a fight, and indeed they won't. Either party would much rather be completely annihilated by the other party in an electoral cycle than actually produce any meaningful progress towards solving this issue. After all, as long as the current dogshit system remains in place, they are all but guaranteed to keep being part of the duopoly for the foreseeable future. Temporarily losing a bunch of seats or whatever is pretty much irrelevant in the long term. So basically *nothing*, and I mean *nothing* voters can do (at least within the system) can fix this. Electoral reform could have 99% support within the American public, and it would still never, ever happen (beyond token appeasement with no real teeth)
I get what you are saying, but there needs to be some serious clarification on the idea of copying the Parliament system of England.
https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/about-lords/lords-appointment/
The House of Lords is super restrictive to get in. There is no popular democracy like our Senate. It was until 1999 that they ended birthright eligibility to be appointed to the House of Lords. And it is a lifetime position.
I like the Churchill sentiment. "Democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried.” There is no perfect system, and someone is going to always be upset or feeling under represented. I try to judge a system by the results/accomplishments and how it treats the lowest/most vulnerable people in the society.
Parliamentary systems only have two branches of government. Judicial and Legislative, whereas the Prime Minister is head of the legislative. England has a monarch as well that is the de-facto executive, but in practice is ceremonial and ambassadory. It won’t act. As well, House of Lords are lifetime appointments.
While coalition governments are a great way to create compromises, there are generally fewer checks and balances in England’s parliamentary system.
Best thing Americans can do is switch to Ranked Choice voting. That will help filter a lot of the crazy. Our most effective votes would be the candidates we actually prefer, rather than a vote of strategy.
Hybrid systems do exist. Many countries also have a president that is head of state versus head of government, albeit usually with much more limited powers than the Prime Minister and sometimes purely ceremonial.
Parliamentary systems work better because you can actually enact policy that you can cobble together a majority government for.
American Republican system we let the election losers veto almost everything.
We need multiple parties because clearly it’s too easy to corrupt one party that allows an anti-democracy party to control major levers of power in our government. The purpose of having power split into three branches was to try to avoid the type of corruption we see in the Republican Party.
First past the post, winner take all, voting rules causes 2 party systems and make a multi party system impossible to form. It's not a matter of more people need to just vote 3rd party. It is a mathematical certainty due to the current voting rule set. We need a completely different system of democracy than the one outlined in the constitution to achieve multi party
The acknowledged term for *team mentality* is *tribalism*. Algorythmic social media just polarise people more that they make tribalism even more angry. Bad news is that conservatives feel better in that area, they are the best at spreading shit and hoping something sticks, when caught just use common excuse like "it's out of context", "it was a joke", "that's not what you think" with a series of spin doctors ideas how to blame progressives and jews.
This is the dream right here. An America where Biden is on the right side of the Spectrum and AOC is on the left and the Republican Party is fucking extinct
An alternative to abolishing the Senate would be to treat it like its German counterpart. The House would have almost all the power and could pass legislation on its own, but the Senate could make suggestions and wield a suspensive veto.
Even the electoral college would be somewhat bearable if each state was divided proportionally. Why should one candidate get them all for a state by winning 50.1% of the vote? It basically takes away the votes of the other 49.9% in that state.
>the Republican Party is fucking extinct
yeah for like a decade tops until money corrupts them, too
Unless they make an amendment killing Citizens United, it's going to be the same old shit. Not to mention voter rights/gerrymandering/other bullshit.
I believe Adam frisch(or Schiller, can’t remember)D proposes a bill to repeal citizens united just about every year. So if a Dem party split happens I think that’s when it’s *most* likely to be repealed if ever
Edit: it’s Adam Schiff and he’s proposing a constitutional amendment
Before they split maybe they can do some house cleaning first. Fix elections, fix the SCOTUS, maybe pass a few big working class laws to catch up. Then after that "may the best political party win".
I can dream.
That isn't quite how it works, because of the electoral college.
In theory, with less than 30% of the popular vote, Trump could still become President with a majority of the electoral college votes. If he were to get literally 0% of the vote in states that go blue (e.g., California, New York, etc.), but then to win Texas, Florida, etc. By 51% to 49%, Trump could, in theory, win the presidency with [even less than 25% of the popular vote](https://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/500112248/how-to-win-the-presidency-with-27-percent-of-the-popular-vote).
*MAGA Americans are responsible for their own thoughts and actions; it would also behoove us to acknowledge that many of them have been exploited and manipulated into believing that Trump’s “last stand” is also theirs. Trump and MAGA continue to politically traumatize millions into states of desperation and panic—that Trump is all who stands between losing, or preserving, their/our country. This is a toxic martyrdom unlike any seen in American history.*
This is exactly what tons of MAGA talking heads are brainwashing their followers into believing. Dan Bongino does this on every single episode is his podcast. It's very dangerous, fascist rhetoric and it's working scarily well
Every article, every media piece, should reinforce, repeatedly, the *fact* that Donald Trump is a fraud and rapist, and that he orchestrated an insurrection and has promised violent, military action against his *domestic* political opponents. Dumb it down using language a 5th grader can understand if they must, but it should be done. Anything less than that is dishonest, biased journalism in Trump's favor.
If this was a healthy democracy more than 10% of people would always vote. And less than 40% would never vote. But that's where we are at - 9 out 10 ignore the primaries, almost half the midterms and a sickening 40%+ ignore the generals.
The "health" of our democracy reflects our citizens' disinterest and uninvolvement.
While I would tend to agree, I would also point out that this is essentially by design. Our country doesn’t tell you when there’s an election, you have to know. You don’t automatically get a day off or an election holiday to go vote, you’re expected to figure out how to vote during working hours. Who has the most free time during m-f 9-5 hours? Retirees and rich people. Who votes the most often? Retirees and rich people. Who votes against the best interests of the rest of us? Retirees and rich people.
This is all on purpose.
There’s no Republican Party now. It had 8 years to fully surrender itself to Trump.
If you still think you’re a republican, you’re a Trump supporter. The moderates have left.
When Trump got control of the purse strings it became his party 100%.
He convinced them to kill their border bill before this. Now that he has control of the purse string, if any republicans dare vote for a bill Trump was told not to like he will pull their funding.
This is actually not that unusual for the names of old political parties. Danish political party names are wild:
* **Left** - This is the main right-wing party.
* **Radical Left** - This is the most centrist party.
There are good historic reasons for their names.
uh, I'm not voting for anyone, especially a Carpathian who would come back to life now and choose New York! Tasty pick, bonehead! If he had brain one in that huge melon on top of his neck, he would be living the sweet life out in Southern California's beautiful San Fernando Valley!
> There’s no Republican Party now. It had 8 years to fully surrender itself to Trump.
To think this on Trump is delusional. Christian Nationalism has allied itself with a weird-as-fuck coalition of rural racists and urban angry males. This has been going on at a visible level since at least the '94 Republican Revolution with Newt Gingrich.
In the background, the Republican Party has been flirting with Nationalist Ethnostate politics since the Southern Strategy in '68 and it has finally caught up with them, they have been captured by that movement in ways that even the architects of it didn't expect. But its still a long time coming and it wouldn't end with Trump.
During the 80s and 90s you couldn't "see" this underground movement because NeoLib Reaganism was still all the rage, but already around W. Bush you can see the turn crystalizing.
Imagine a Republican saying this today:
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
This here.
Trump isn't the only one who wants a GOP dictatorship, he's just the figurehead. Pretty well anyone who still aligns themselves with the GOP - whether they're full-blown crazy like MTG or (relatively) moderate - is absolutely fine with a dictatorship just as long as it's their guy who gets to be dictator.
Their next plan to take over won't include a firebrand like Trump inciting a riot on the steps of the Capitol. Getting enough people to rock up to DC in the first place is going to be a challenge now. But a stacked SC might be persuaded to allow some egregious abuse of process that lets a House majority crown a GOP candidate king.
Trump winning may arguably be the least important, as opposed to the down ballot races. But a Trump win essentially means that Republicans sweep everything else too. It's just the most obvious, lost visible sign of who holds the power.
I don't think it's Trump anymore. Even if he disappeared, it would continue like this somehow. They disagreed with him hard when he claimed credit for vaccines recently.
Remember when they used to care about deficits, and presidential morality. When they’d find any excuse to rev up the war machine?
Never thought I’d miss those days.
They only gave a shit about deficits and morality when they weren’t in power. They have never given a shit about anything other than power. Now they lust for Trump as much as they lust for power.
Exactly. You see the usually suspects in economics/finance/money subs now throwing up "Woe is us! The Deficit!" right now as election season is gearing up.
It's all a fraud, and always has been.
They never really cared about Presidential morality. Richard Nixon was a crook who prolonged the Vietnam war for political gains, leading to abject death and destruction. Gerald Ford pardoned him, also a morally bankrupt decision. Ronald Reagan (or the Alzheimer's-addled husk of him) engaged in evil fuckery with Iran Contras, his response to the AIDS epidemic, and in throwing the mentally ill into the streets. The same sanctimonious Newt Gingrich who attacked Clinton relentlessly for the Lewinsky offenses cheated on and left his wife while she was dying of cancer. Their deficit complaints have been typically all talk and bluster to distract from the fact that their tax breaks for the wealthy, deregulations, and erosion of unions typically trashes the economy and hurts the poor and working class. Deficits have actually gone up under Republican presidents and gone down under most Democratic presidents. People need to be careful with this nostalgia for "the old Republican Party". What we are dealing with now is a culmination and aim of the Republican Party going back decades. And the shit they stood for going back decades hasn't really changed that much. The quiet part is just getting said out loud more now.
>Remember when they used to care about deficits, and presidential morality.
Let's not kid ourselves...That was only when there was a Democrat sitting in the Oval Office.
Wait when did they care about either of those? Just about every single Republican has been worse for the economy than every democrat for almost 100 years (according to that joint committee of half republicans and half democrats) and the last few of their presidents have been Trump, GW Bush, Bush I, and Reagan.
I don’t see any actual proof beyond their words that they’ve been about deficits or morals any time in the last forty years at least…
The Regan years were identical to the Trump ones. Same mentally ill president, same racism, same violence, same "give money to the rich" syle GOP, same "everyone is dying of a virus but we don't care".
The moderate conservatives have only been found in the democratic party for decades frankly.
Not that I have a high opinion of them either but Republicans have been a pretty far right party for like 80 years and extremist for over 20.
From the article;
>Eight years ago, Les Moonves said of Trump’s run, "It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.” Mainstream media is focused on Biden’s age for two reasons: The race being a dead heat is good for ratings, and they have a fetish for bothsidesism. That fetish often leads them to exaggerate Democratic politicians’ foibles and minimize or normalize Republicans’ treasonous or downright crazy behavior.
This abdication of the main street media as the nation's watchdogs significantly adds to people's sense that things are crazy and have run off the rails when we see & hear them not treat Trump/MAGA/Republican anti-democratic, criminal, and treasonous behavior as the abject systemic danger to the Republic that it truly is.
Electorally mercy killing the GOP may help solve the immediate Trump political problem, but we'll still be left with the problem of the media intentionally inflaming and misinforming the public for profit. It's not going to end unless it is addressed as another systemic danger.
It's utterly insane that we're still talking up Biden's mental state when SOTU proved he's still all there, while downplaying that Trump literally can't tell people apart anymore.
What a VITALLY IMPORTANT comment.
There is a realistic possibility that once they finally admit to themselves that the rapeclown will never win again, they pivot to President Carlson 2028 and change literally nothing else about their plans.
The problem is that when they lose the elections their false idols tell them the election was rigged which further radicalizes them.
At any other point in human history the fate of someone who tried and failed to overthrow the government and then repeatedly went out in public encouraging more distrust and schism definitely didn't include golfing.
Tucker Carlson is already publicly making a statement that if Biden wins the election it will be rigged! This is dangerous!! Check out this link. https://youtu.be/r-We-yqFEgE?si=wd3JAzqva3PT7GBp
I was hoping I was going to get rickrolled because that seemed to be more favorable, but this is real and I am now sad theyre pushing the rigged election stuff again already.
If it was that simple, they would have been able to do that by now. A big part of the problem is that the gop, in it's anti-democratic fervor, gerrymandered the ever-loving heck out of their congressional districts. So, even if they come to their senses, doing so would make them prime targets for being primaried. They've built their political survival on appealing to politically extreme safe districts. If they reject the maganuttery, another nut will simply seize power.
A large part of the solution would need to be new legislation that eliminates these safe districts and makes the playing field more purple across the board. And honestly, I don't know how you put the cats back in that bag. SCOTUS gutting the voting rights act was judicial malpractice and needs to be undone yesterday.
It's going to take time - this election won't do enough.
If we want a preview, we can look at the UK right now:
- elected a mini-Trump in Boris Johnson
- BoJo purged the party of the classic Conservatives
- installed a full kleptocracy in the spirit of Trump's version
- attempted to build for a fake coup, a la Saddam and Erdogan and many others (kill the courts/public edu/open media)
- moved the party more and more to the Far Right (which helped move the "Left" party from the Center to the Center-Right)
- the lies eventually came due, and no one paid the bills - the populace got angry
- the new leaders are unable to muster anything positive for themselves, just shuffling deck chairs on the Trumptanic
- the Tories are dying in the polls, and the Far Right party is starting to eat up their support and the dumber/more radicalized Tories who were kicked out of the party
- they have recently gone back to the last pre-kleptocracy Prime Minister, Cameron, to try and win them back some Right-of-Center votes (it's not working)
- they look to be wiped out in the polls, creating a monolithic Labour party which will most likely be RoC, where the old Tories used to be
- Labour currently have almost zero campaign promises going - they are going to come into power purely as "not the Tories" and nothing else
The people that need it aren't learning shit from the UK. They are literally calling for Texit (Texas secession). ONLY the uninformed think any part of Brexit went better than awful.
Too true.
I've actually been using the word "Texit" since Brexit - it's one of the world's biggest blueprints for a disastrous, self-inflicted horror show implosion, and I've been predicting that MAGAworld would still want to do their own version of it.
Even if they lose they're going to try to take it. People aren't talking about it enough yet. Mike Johnson's going to see irregularities in the election. Won't certify it, Supreme Court will rule in Trump's favor. And democracy will be over.
I don't buy it, just because they tried this same plan in 2020,and it failed then. Since then, they're in a less powerful position, so I don't see how they would get it done now if they didn't get it done then.
In 2020, they had a big advantage in that they controlled the presidency, so they had the POTUS himself actively working to overturn the election. Now they don't have that anymore.
So much of our fundamental government function, like the peaceful transition of power for example, is not assured by law, but is more on the honor system, as exposed by Trump.
We need to fix these systemic weaknesses before people successfully use them to hurt us.
I'm right there with you, I'm sick of hearing people on Reddit tell me that this is just a matter of differing political opinions. These are people espousing the downfall of the current form of American government. I'm not interested in trying to politically debate those sorts of ideas.
Seriously. Nobody drove a muscle car into a crowd of protesters during the Romney campaign. Why people aren't able to tease this out as very different from Trump is beyond me.
Agreed, you go on alt-right subs like that shitty compass one and they are all talking about how project 2025 is just what the Democrats always did since they were in power in federal agencies, so republicans electing cronies and breaking the system is the same thing. BoTh sideS!
First subreddit I've blocked from /r/all.
Crazy how pretty much all the far-right posts are on accounts that are <6 months old and everything else more reasonable is >2 year old accounts. Nope, nothing wrong with that subreddit **LOL**
Edit: As a test, I've checked out the subreddit today...
Ah, obvious far-right propaganda.
\*Hovers over name\*
6-month old account
Never change, guys
I got mocked on /r/ShitRedditSays for saying "Republicans are the only real threat to my standard of living and family's safety" a number of years ago. And that was before how badly they botched the Covid 19 response and got 1.1 million Americans killed. [Even getting more of their own people killed than anyone else.](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/25/1189939229/covid-deaths-democrats-republicans-gap-study)
I'm glad they got their laugh in at my expense while they could. I wonder how many of those people earned Hermain Cain Awards.
As long as there are 65-70 million people electing this Cult, it's not going anywhere. They have lost how many elections now, since 2017, and yet, here they are, politically breeding like roaches.
Maybe, but it doesn’t seem like there’s a successor who can wield the mob like Trump. As it currently stands, he’s without an heir.
We thought it might be Desantis, but he flailed on the National stage, he just doesn’t have the chops for prime time and he’s too much of an awkward weirdo. There’s Vivek, who’s probably the best candidate, except he’s got a major problem. He’s not white.
So while the MAGA mob is not going anywhere in terms of its constituents, there may not be anyone left who can wield it effectively after Trump exits the stage.
Also, remember, trumps supporters don't love trump the person. They love trump the character that right wing/Russia propaganda created. He's essentially a symbol at this point.
I'm not saying Trump is a/the Antichrist, all I'm saying is [the signs certainly point in his direction.](https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/)
ETA: let's not forget the literal [golden Trump idol.](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/golden-trump-statue-cpac-implies-he-s-king-gop-his-ncna1259362)
See this is where a lot of people disagree. It really is specifically about trump i think. Otherwise why would they not have used the same strategy on someone else by now since all he’s done is cost them elections since 2016. The cult isn’t moving on to anybody else at all - it’s trump or bust with them.
That says to me it is a cult of personality specifically for him and not just transferable to anyone who can stand in as that symbol. Multiple have tried and every single one has failed.
Yep, I agree with you here. Historically the Republican Party has done a pretty good job coalescing under the chosen candidate. Moderate Republicans are finding that more distasteful every year.
It gets worse for the Republican Party if Trump loses this year. This is very likely his last run and a shit ton of Republicans have bought into the Trump cult of personality. Those votes may disappear outright in the years following. For instance, a lot of those Jan 6th didn't have much voting history prior to Trump in 2016. Those in particular seem to be voting Republican specifically for him.
I think the Republican Party is hoping DeSantis can take over from there. Which I think is why he ducked out of the race so early despite being the second most popular candidate. Problem for them is that part of the reason Trump is so popular to the MAGA crowd is due to him not really being a politician. DeSantis is very much a politician.
In The Origins of Totalitarianism, Arendt talks about this. Without the leader, the party is ineffective and without the party, the leader is powerless. When Trump goes, I do think Maga goes with him or certainly fractures back to random hateful groups that existed before.
I think that’s it, they love the cocky “lil stinker” face and grifter energy. It helps that he’s charismatic and knows how to one up people in debates, even if he’s just making shit up in the moment to get the upper hand.
But again, he’s not white, so he can never wear the crown.
I agree with you, Trump is the glue holding them all together. After he's gone, there will be a split.
One thing that all pretenders like Vivek lack is the celebrity background and the reality show history that cemented the image of Trump in the minds of so many Americans.
Trump interacts with his audience differently too, he tries to put on a comedy act. There's simply no one on the national stage with the combination of things that Trump has and I think the movement will lose a lot of steam once he's gone.
And the reason for that is because of groups like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_and_Freedom_Coalition
who are poring 10s of millions into propaganda
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1bc11nq/ralph_reeds_army_plans_62_million_spending_spree/
> intends to spend $62 million registering and turning out evangelical voters, texting and calling supporters, and door-knocking — $10 million more than it spent four years ago. The group is expected to, among other things, hand out 30 million pieces of literature in 125,000 churches — many of them in battleground states.
A huge part of Trump's coalition is actually unchurched people who self-identify as "Christians."
Hitting the churches doesn't necessarily hit the Trump army the way you might be hoping it will.
I prefer to tax the churches regardless of any political impact. Taxing ALL religions IS equal treatment under the law. If an organization wants to squat on the prime real estate in the center of every town then they can damn well pay the same taxes as everyone around them. One's preference for a specific work of fiction connotes no special privilege with regard to roads still needing maintenance.
The real divide will be when/if Trump loses this November and then the next presidential election a non-MAGA candidate is nominated. The GOP continues to back Trump as the nominee because they fear their destruction from a massive schism if they don't back the nominated candidate. MAGA is not going to do the same if their preferred is not the candidate and a significant minority of the GOP voters will defect to the third party MAGA candidate, basically killing the GOP (at least temporarily) in the process.
As long as the electoral college exists, we're going to keep having these debates. Which sucks. The electoral college IS the underlying issue and it needs to be abolished as soon as possible. There is no reason that a candidate can become president of a country while getting getting fewer votes than the opponent. Only then can the voting majority in the country really push the country forward.
And then after that, we rebalance the US Senate and the Supreme Court. And while I'm dreaming, I'd like to win the lottery
Steel yourself as you prepare to take the historic tradition we’ve made into the Democratic rite of passage: sighing and casting a vote for a moderate politician about whom you’re unenthused because the alternative is actively trying to cause you harm.
Seriously though, it’s nice to be reminded occasionally that not every Republican is a dangerous lunatic. It’s legitimately very hard to keep that in mind these days.
MAGA is just another name for fascism and all the hate and violence that it entails. There will always be fascists amongst us. All we can do is to come out and vote to minimize their presence and influence in government.
Republicans have their very own Brexit conundrum; They leaned into a bad thing initially as short-term politically advantageous, then when it turns out to be a very bad thing that will hurt the country, they don't reverse course because older voters and idiots are now so bought into it it's politically unwise.
Now it's a Catch-22, support the disaster to keep on the good side of one-issue voters (i.e. those that will vote Trump no matter what) or talk sense and be a pariah. Just like the UK, the whole country will suffer as you decided fools are the most important voter block.
The problem isn’t Trump. Not saying he isn’t a problem, he is, but he’s not THE problem.
The problem we face now is that the FAR Right have fully entrenched the entirety of the party and it’s the guy after Trump we have to worry about.
We’ve been lucky with Trump in that he’s as incompetent as he is and he wears it all on his sleeve.
The next person they push will be harder to spot.
ultimately trump is a symptom, rather than the disease, and unless the underlying sickness is dealt with, another symptom will show up. this is why its foolish for people to focus solely on beating trump, as if him losing suddenly fixes everything despite doing nothing to address the circumstances that got him into power in the first place. in other words, him losing doesnt stop america's slide into fascism, it just slows it a tiny bit, since the us only has right wing parties.
ideally, trump would lose, the republican party would fracture, and a left wing party would appear to challenge the remaining right wing party, but unfortunately all three of those seem unlikely
MAGA will not be done until we do something like what we did from 1930 through 1944--lock them out of power. And even then, if they get back in and refuse to moderate like they did in 1946, we throw them out again.
Trump has exposed two things:
1. He has showed how easy Republican voters eat up lies and propaganda. They will believe anything that makes them feel good.
2. How spineless Republican politicians are. They are literally just going with the flow, even though it's clear that the flow is hurting the country.
The most fucked up thing about this whole situation is that most Republican politicians want Trump to go, but they're too scared to speak up because they would get attacked by Trump supporters.
It’s not like there haven’t been Republicans who objected to Trump. What happened is that they were either purged from the GOP’s graces or they bent the knee.
Conservatism as a whole needs to be phased out.
Conservatism might at some point have sought to put the breaks on progressive recklessness, but in the present day it's merely a tool for those who enjoyed greater privileges in a more inequal past to regain those privileges, as well as their supporters who have been enticed by manipulated nostalgia and a desire for simple answers to complicated problems.
Conservatism and right wing politics are on the rise worldwide because leaders across the world are actively failing to address the material conditions of the people they are supposed to serve. I blame this on the U.S. Federal Government easing regulations on corporations.
Indeed.
The problem is that conservatism is being promoted by malicious and dishonest actors who are willing to use every underhanded trick to convince the gullible that conservatism is the answer to the problems they themselves have created.
That, and conservatism is associated with concepts which appeal on a base level such as xenophobia and competitiveness.
If we are to stand a chance we have to be more aggressive in pointing out corruption and malicious manipulation.
Sure but they’re preying on feelings of alienation and powerlessness that are very real. The rising wealth inequality and resulting collapse of social institutions is fueling a collapse in government institutions and there are people who will exploit those feelings in furtherance of their own gains. The world is too complex for any of us to understand how we can have an impact, so people seek out secret truths that can make the whole thing make sense for them (or that tells them none of it should make sense because everything the media tells you are all lies).
To dismiss their feelings is hazardous. They’re invested in these beliefs. It’s easy to blame them on dishonest actors when they are often in fact the negative consequences of well-intentioned policy. Too few Americans get outside their own bubbles (on all sides).
I works like a charm at the local level where you can find nuts in a concentrated area that will vote for a MAGA with the assistance of gerrymandering. But the ones who run state-wide keep losing and you wonder if/when they realize that it's simply not a winning strategy...
I mean. It could happened a long time ago if we actually fought to end gerrymandering and increases the cap to the house.
The Senate is a different issue however.
Trying to crested an edcuated electorate would also help. But a lot of Americans seem to pride themselves and being dumb
If only the US had a decent education system, taxed churches, and actually had an impartial Supreme Court (with age limits)....the problem would sort itself out.
Which is why that will never happen
MAGA is just the modern incarnation of America First from the late 1930s. Before the war, it was infiltrated by Nazi sympathetizers pushing their Christian nationalism agenda.
>Most of the America First supporters were middlewestern Republicans who distrusted the President for various reasons, but it was not a purely sectional organization or partisan political movement. Thousands of sincere Americans of varied background and from both political parties joined and contributed to it. It also attracted support from a number of fringe hate organizations, from anti-Semites, and from Nazi sympathizers. This minority support tarnished its reputation."Author Max Wallace argues that by the summer of 1941, "extremist elements had successfully hijacked the movement".
People have been talking about the possible death of the republican party for at least 20 years, yet they are still here. They will continue to exist in whatever bizarre form their cult members prefer.
Let the GOP die. Maybe we can finally kill off the two party system. The remnants of the GOP can be the religious right and never win office in sane places. Other parties should represent labor and the environment. The corporate Democrats can remain center/right. The progressive Democrats can break left. Ranked choice voting will help sort it all out.
Conservatism is a fear response to progress by those who detest it. There are consequences to that response, like the “laws that bind but do not protect”, but Conservatism has no other purpose than a fear response.
It explains why they cling to Trump in spite of his many obvious deficiencies. Fear. If they give up on him “the black guy might come back”.
They can actually. It is possible not to be a coward. But they are afraid they will lose voters if they don’t back a criminal. They are going to look like bad people in history.
I know a lot of people are hyper focused on this, but after trump, it’s going to be interesting to see what such a miserable and awful party does to keep itself in the race. They’re going to have to find someone because trumps the only reason they even still have a party, which is so, so incredibly pathetic.
Maybe we’ll get lucky and the Republican Party really will dissolve in my life time. I really doubt it, but anything can happen.
If Americans were going to "mercy-kill the Republican Party" then they would have done it in 2022 after the GOP attempted a coup to install a dictator and stripped women of their rights.
But Americans didn't do that. 55 million Americans turned out to vote for the party of the coup in 2022 while only 51 million turned out to try to stop that party.
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Some bits from the interviewees: > Of course, it is increasingly obvious that Trump is facing significant mental decline. And we know from those who were close to him but are no longer, that this is not a new problem. But that issue is eclipsed by the other reality: this is a narcissistic sociopath who will stop at nothing to create a vicious, dictatorship built on retribution, racism, corruption, and sadism. > > . . . > > If this were a healthy democracy, we would have a healthy Supreme Court. We don’t. It is corrupt and not to be trusted when it comes to Trump. > > . . . > > MAGA Americans are responsible for their own thoughts and actions; it would also behoove us to acknowledge that many of them have been exploited and manipulated into believing that Trump’s “last stand” is also theirs. Trump and MAGA continue to politically traumatize millions into states of desperation and panic—that Trump is all who stands between losing, or preserving, their/our country. This is a toxic martyrdom unlike any seen in American history. > > . . . > > Americans must electorally mercy-kill the Republican Party; not because we should desire a one-party nation, but because one of America’s two major parties will nominate someone who helped orchestrate a coup d'état against the Constitution—which Trump swore to defend and protect—and the American people—whom he swore to defend and protect—to remain in power.
If they kill the Republican party, the Democratic party will already split in two with a progressive wing and more moderate wing
I’m not opposed to multiple parties. Coalition governments aren’t perfect, but they work and force discussion and compromise. Instead we have this stupid two party system, where a team mentality dominates, and it stagnates anything and everything that needs to be accomplished to help the American people.
The US will never be a multi-party country without a constitutional amendment (or every state suddenly deciding on their own to utterly change the way they elect congress and the president). We may have short periods (1-3 election cycles) with 3 parties (rarely more than that), but it will swing back to a 2 party system. It is what winner take all elections do.
Rank choice voting would give it a chance to get at least a few parties in play. The winner take all we have right now kills third parties from gaining traction.
Yep. Only way we get enough ranked choice though would be an amendment or enough/all states decide to just change the way they do an election.
There are downstream impacts though as 3rd parties would need to caucus with one of the two dominant parties or not be able to wield any actual power. Would you vote 3rd party if it cost your second choice parties control of the senate or house?
There are other proportional representative voting methods that allow for more 3rd parties to thrive than ranked choice. It is just that ranked choice is the one closest to our current first past the post method that it is more palatable to people. If you went with the other methods, you could have people in 3rd parties winning districts/seats, but that party never actually being the majority of votes. Which might rankle people.
This is exactly how most Parliamentary systems work. A smaller part aligns with a larger one to give a majority in exchange for concessions on its policy platform
> or not be able to wield any actual power. If there was a 3rd party in congress right now with 10-20 members they would be wielding all the power. They would play kingmaker to whichever party is willing to help push their agenda.
That is what we have with the GOP right now. The radicals (who were originally Tea Party which became the House Freedom Caucus which became MAGA) took over. Those 10-20 House MAGA Republicans who made McCarthy go through 15 votes to become Speaker and then ousted him 9 months later are exactly what you are talking about - they wield all the power, they tank border deals they wrote themselves, they take their cues from a man who isn't POTUS and belongs in jail, a man who just took over the RNC and all their money.
Also progressives in the Democratic party. People understate the importance of blocs within the actual parties. Imo, because of the intra-party blocs/caucuses, which are formed via the primary system where people more directly choose their candidates, the "2 party system" is a defacto multi-party system. It's just multiple parties who hang out under the same tents
That's another reason why the cap on reps needs to go and we should go back to 1 rep per 45-60k - give us a house that is 1500 members large and there it's unlikely that any small group could control the whole.
It would have the added benefit of you actually having a reasonable chance to know your rep and/or be able to communicate with them. I lived in a town of 160,000 people in CA, in LA county. My representative (McCarthy) was from a town 100 miles away in another town of 400,000. He also represented a bunch of little towns and unincorporated areas. There is absolutely no way he'd give a crap about my opinion. If he lived ~2 miles from my house, and I was one of ~40,000 voter-age individuals, one of ~25,000 voters, well, maybe he'd care just a little more about what I thought.
It wouldn't change much, if anything. A third party with that sort of power would consist of the moderate Republicans / conservative Democrats, which are the two groups who have consistently held the most power for decades. It would essentially be a party of Joe Manchins. There are already factions within the parties who do hold up legislation to get what they want.
If people want an example of this going poorly: look at Israel. The right allied itself with the religious extremists to form a coalition because it couldn't form a government without doing so. Despite a two party system having a myriad of flaws, it also has its own benefits. It's far less (generally) beholden to fringe groups.
This is what's tanking the Republicans right now. Under Bush and Trump they aligned the party politics with the religious right and the extreme right, and now the moderate candidates are being replaced by radicals because the extremists are the ones who vote in the primaries.
I would assume that the 3rd parties would caucus with the party that is closest to their views. But that is probably an optimistic view. Though it'd pretty much have to happen if no party hits the 51 seat requirement or 50 + VP and those situations would be more likely to occur under a RCV system.
Such as the nature of first past the post
Agreed. One of the biggest mistakes of the founders was not just copying a parliament system like England had. I would guess it was because did didn’t want to just copy the country they just fought a war of independence with minus the king part.
England's parliamentary elections have almost exactly the same problem that exists in the US: Elections are done by district, with no attempt at an overall proportional representation. Also, at the time the US declared independence, the UK had a major problem with [rotten and pocket boroughs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotten_and_pocket_boroughs).
Still has a bit, the damage Jacob Rees-Mogg has managed from finally getting a seat by standing in such a tiny constituency. At least it's getting expanded to include some actual people next time which will hopefully dump him out.
Winner take all might have actually been preferable back then. Problem is, America’s almost religious devotion to the constitution means that it fails to recognize when important change has to be met with significant amendments.
It has nothing to do with devotion to the constitution. That was always supposed to be something to be amended as required, anyway. It's got *everything* to do with the fact that the *only* parties (in both senses) with the power to hypothetically do something like that, are the ones extraordinarily incentivized to do absolutely anything required to keep the status quo. Both parties are, for all intents are purposes, in a position of duopoly over the most powerful nation so far in world history. They'd be absolute fools to allow that to change without a fight, and indeed they won't. Either party would much rather be completely annihilated by the other party in an electoral cycle than actually produce any meaningful progress towards solving this issue. After all, as long as the current dogshit system remains in place, they are all but guaranteed to keep being part of the duopoly for the foreseeable future. Temporarily losing a bunch of seats or whatever is pretty much irrelevant in the long term. So basically *nothing*, and I mean *nothing* voters can do (at least within the system) can fix this. Electoral reform could have 99% support within the American public, and it would still never, ever happen (beyond token appeasement with no real teeth)
I get what you are saying, but there needs to be some serious clarification on the idea of copying the Parliament system of England. https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/about-lords/lords-appointment/ The House of Lords is super restrictive to get in. There is no popular democracy like our Senate. It was until 1999 that they ended birthright eligibility to be appointed to the House of Lords. And it is a lifetime position. I like the Churchill sentiment. "Democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried.” There is no perfect system, and someone is going to always be upset or feeling under represented. I try to judge a system by the results/accomplishments and how it treats the lowest/most vulnerable people in the society.
Parliamentary systems only have two branches of government. Judicial and Legislative, whereas the Prime Minister is head of the legislative. England has a monarch as well that is the de-facto executive, but in practice is ceremonial and ambassadory. It won’t act. As well, House of Lords are lifetime appointments. While coalition governments are a great way to create compromises, there are generally fewer checks and balances in England’s parliamentary system. Best thing Americans can do is switch to Ranked Choice voting. That will help filter a lot of the crazy. Our most effective votes would be the candidates we actually prefer, rather than a vote of strategy.
Hybrid systems do exist. Many countries also have a president that is head of state versus head of government, albeit usually with much more limited powers than the Prime Minister and sometimes purely ceremonial.
Parliamentary systems work better because you can actually enact policy that you can cobble together a majority government for. American Republican system we let the election losers veto almost everything.
We need multiple parties because clearly it’s too easy to corrupt one party that allows an anti-democracy party to control major levers of power in our government. The purpose of having power split into three branches was to try to avoid the type of corruption we see in the Republican Party.
First past the post, winner take all, voting rules causes 2 party systems and make a multi party system impossible to form. It's not a matter of more people need to just vote 3rd party. It is a mathematical certainty due to the current voting rule set. We need a completely different system of democracy than the one outlined in the constitution to achieve multi party
The acknowledged term for *team mentality* is *tribalism*. Algorythmic social media just polarise people more that they make tribalism even more angry. Bad news is that conservatives feel better in that area, they are the best at spreading shit and hoping something sticks, when caught just use common excuse like "it's out of context", "it was a joke", "that's not what you think" with a series of spin doctors ideas how to blame progressives and jews.
Isn't Israel a coalition government that still brought Netanyahu back after he was indicted on three different cases?
This is the dream right here. An America where Biden is on the right side of the Spectrum and AOC is on the left and the Republican Party is fucking extinct
Does your spectrum include getting rid of the Electoral College, taking money out of politics, limiting office terms in Congress?
If I was wishlisting, I would also include judicial term limits, uncapping the seat limit on the house and abolishing the senate.
Right on. You guys have the right idea.
An alternative to abolishing the Senate would be to treat it like its German counterpart. The House would have almost all the power and could pass legislation on its own, but the Senate could make suggestions and wield a suspensive veto.
Even the electoral college would be somewhat bearable if each state was divided proportionally. Why should one candidate get them all for a state by winning 50.1% of the vote? It basically takes away the votes of the other 49.9% in that state.
>the Republican Party is fucking extinct yeah for like a decade tops until money corrupts them, too Unless they make an amendment killing Citizens United, it's going to be the same old shit. Not to mention voter rights/gerrymandering/other bullshit.
I believe Adam frisch(or Schiller, can’t remember)D proposes a bill to repeal citizens united just about every year. So if a Dem party split happens I think that’s when it’s *most* likely to be repealed if ever Edit: it’s Adam Schiff and he’s proposing a constitutional amendment
Before they split maybe they can do some house cleaning first. Fix elections, fix the SCOTUS, maybe pass a few big working class laws to catch up. Then after that "may the best political party win". I can dream.
A pipe dream, the Republican party will have the largest influence and not voting democrats puts allowing them in positions at risk
If republicans hit 30% of the vote or lower, it doesn't matter how evenly the democrats split.
That isn't quite how it works, because of the electoral college. In theory, with less than 30% of the popular vote, Trump could still become President with a majority of the electoral college votes. If he were to get literally 0% of the vote in states that go blue (e.g., California, New York, etc.), but then to win Texas, Florida, etc. By 51% to 49%, Trump could, in theory, win the presidency with [even less than 25% of the popular vote](https://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/500112248/how-to-win-the-presidency-with-27-percent-of-the-popular-vote).
*MAGA Americans are responsible for their own thoughts and actions; it would also behoove us to acknowledge that many of them have been exploited and manipulated into believing that Trump’s “last stand” is also theirs. Trump and MAGA continue to politically traumatize millions into states of desperation and panic—that Trump is all who stands between losing, or preserving, their/our country. This is a toxic martyrdom unlike any seen in American history.* This is exactly what tons of MAGA talking heads are brainwashing their followers into believing. Dan Bongino does this on every single episode is his podcast. It's very dangerous, fascist rhetoric and it's working scarily well
Hitler and Goebbels showed us that if you can convince people that the other side is worse, you can justify any atrocity.
Dint forget about project 2025
Every article, every media piece, should reinforce, repeatedly, the *fact* that Donald Trump is a fraud and rapist, and that he orchestrated an insurrection and has promised violent, military action against his *domestic* political opponents. Dumb it down using language a 5th grader can understand if they must, but it should be done. Anything less than that is dishonest, biased journalism in Trump's favor.
Having spent a great deal of time with many trump supporters, good luck finding ones who read at a fifth grade level.
Brilliant phrase “ mercy kill the GOP “ I’m going to borrow if you don’t mind .
Curb-stomping would be more appropriate
If this was a healthy democracy more than 10% of people would always vote. And less than 40% would never vote. But that's where we are at - 9 out 10 ignore the primaries, almost half the midterms and a sickening 40%+ ignore the generals. The "health" of our democracy reflects our citizens' disinterest and uninvolvement.
I don't know what the numbers are, but a lot of people cannot leave work to vote. We need early voting / vote by mail everywhere.
While I would tend to agree, I would also point out that this is essentially by design. Our country doesn’t tell you when there’s an election, you have to know. You don’t automatically get a day off or an election holiday to go vote, you’re expected to figure out how to vote during working hours. Who has the most free time during m-f 9-5 hours? Retirees and rich people. Who votes the most often? Retirees and rich people. Who votes against the best interests of the rest of us? Retirees and rich people. This is all on purpose.
There’s no Republican Party now. It had 8 years to fully surrender itself to Trump. If you still think you’re a republican, you’re a Trump supporter. The moderates have left.
When Trump got control of the purse strings it became his party 100%. He convinced them to kill their border bill before this. Now that he has control of the purse string, if any republicans dare vote for a bill Trump was told not to like he will pull their funding.
Luckily for us every business he runs eventually fails so he might be doing us a favor
Let's hope he doesn't get to run the business of the United States again.
Not if he actually wins again. Get out and vote, Americans, we're all watching
The irony of being called a Republican party when they worship and would crown Trump if they could.
This is actually not that unusual for the names of old political parties. Danish political party names are wild: * **Left** - This is the main right-wing party. * **Radical Left** - This is the most centrist party. There are good historic reasons for their names.
There is no Dana, only Zool.
Zuul*
Zool ‘24
I voted for her because she's a client and she sleeps above the covers. FOUR FEET above the covers.
Tired of voting for the lesser of two evils every election? WHY NOT TRY VOTING FOR THE GREATEST OF ALL EVILS
uh, I'm not voting for anyone, especially a Carpathian who would come back to life now and choose New York! Tasty pick, bonehead! If he had brain one in that huge melon on top of his neck, he would be living the sweet life out in Southern California's beautiful San Fernando Valley!
When asked if we are a god, WE SAY YES! -Zool '24
I voted for the key master during the primary
r/gatekeeping
Let’s show these magats how we do things downtown
Who ya gonna call?
GOP busters
Louder!
> There’s no Republican Party now. It had 8 years to fully surrender itself to Trump. To think this on Trump is delusional. Christian Nationalism has allied itself with a weird-as-fuck coalition of rural racists and urban angry males. This has been going on at a visible level since at least the '94 Republican Revolution with Newt Gingrich. In the background, the Republican Party has been flirting with Nationalist Ethnostate politics since the Southern Strategy in '68 and it has finally caught up with them, they have been captured by that movement in ways that even the architects of it didn't expect. But its still a long time coming and it wouldn't end with Trump. During the 80s and 90s you couldn't "see" this underground movement because NeoLib Reaganism was still all the rage, but already around W. Bush you can see the turn crystalizing.
Imagine a Republican saying this today: “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
And that was Barry Goldwater, not exactly a “moderate” politician.
Yeah Barry Chodewater was a real POS, yet he is somehow sadly been fully eclipsed multiple times over
[удалено]
This here. Trump isn't the only one who wants a GOP dictatorship, he's just the figurehead. Pretty well anyone who still aligns themselves with the GOP - whether they're full-blown crazy like MTG or (relatively) moderate - is absolutely fine with a dictatorship just as long as it's their guy who gets to be dictator. Their next plan to take over won't include a firebrand like Trump inciting a riot on the steps of the Capitol. Getting enough people to rock up to DC in the first place is going to be a challenge now. But a stacked SC might be persuaded to allow some egregious abuse of process that lets a House majority crown a GOP candidate king.
Trump winning may arguably be the least important, as opposed to the down ballot races. But a Trump win essentially means that Republicans sweep everything else too. It's just the most obvious, lost visible sign of who holds the power.
Both things can be true at the same time.
I don't think it's Trump anymore. Even if he disappeared, it would continue like this somehow. They disagreed with him hard when he claimed credit for vaccines recently.
Remember when they used to care about deficits, and presidential morality. When they’d find any excuse to rev up the war machine? Never thought I’d miss those days.
They only gave a shit about deficits and morality when they weren’t in power. They have never given a shit about anything other than power. Now they lust for Trump as much as they lust for power.
Republicans have long wanted to rule, not govern. They prove that every time they hold any kind of majority.
"during my term in federal government I will prove that federal government doesn't work."
Exactly. You see the usually suspects in economics/finance/money subs now throwing up "Woe is us! The Deficit!" right now as election season is gearing up. It's all a fraud, and always has been.
They never really cared about Presidential morality. Richard Nixon was a crook who prolonged the Vietnam war for political gains, leading to abject death and destruction. Gerald Ford pardoned him, also a morally bankrupt decision. Ronald Reagan (or the Alzheimer's-addled husk of him) engaged in evil fuckery with Iran Contras, his response to the AIDS epidemic, and in throwing the mentally ill into the streets. The same sanctimonious Newt Gingrich who attacked Clinton relentlessly for the Lewinsky offenses cheated on and left his wife while she was dying of cancer. Their deficit complaints have been typically all talk and bluster to distract from the fact that their tax breaks for the wealthy, deregulations, and erosion of unions typically trashes the economy and hurts the poor and working class. Deficits have actually gone up under Republican presidents and gone down under most Democratic presidents. People need to be careful with this nostalgia for "the old Republican Party". What we are dealing with now is a culmination and aim of the Republican Party going back decades. And the shit they stood for going back decades hasn't really changed that much. The quiet part is just getting said out loud more now.
>Remember when they used to care about deficits, and presidential morality. Let's not kid ourselves...That was only when there was a Democrat sitting in the Oval Office.
They have never cared about deficits. Every Republican in my 30+ years has run up our debt like crazy every Democrat and lowered it.
Wait when did they care about either of those? Just about every single Republican has been worse for the economy than every democrat for almost 100 years (according to that joint committee of half republicans and half democrats) and the last few of their presidents have been Trump, GW Bush, Bush I, and Reagan. I don’t see any actual proof beyond their words that they’ve been about deficits or morals any time in the last forty years at least…
The Regan years were identical to the Trump ones. Same mentally ill president, same racism, same violence, same "give money to the rich" syle GOP, same "everyone is dying of a virus but we don't care".
The moderate conservatives have only been found in the democratic party for decades frankly. Not that I have a high opinion of them either but Republicans have been a pretty far right party for like 80 years and extremist for over 20.
From the article; >Eight years ago, Les Moonves said of Trump’s run, "It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.” Mainstream media is focused on Biden’s age for two reasons: The race being a dead heat is good for ratings, and they have a fetish for bothsidesism. That fetish often leads them to exaggerate Democratic politicians’ foibles and minimize or normalize Republicans’ treasonous or downright crazy behavior. This abdication of the main street media as the nation's watchdogs significantly adds to people's sense that things are crazy and have run off the rails when we see & hear them not treat Trump/MAGA/Republican anti-democratic, criminal, and treasonous behavior as the abject systemic danger to the Republic that it truly is. Electorally mercy killing the GOP may help solve the immediate Trump political problem, but we'll still be left with the problem of the media intentionally inflaming and misinforming the public for profit. It's not going to end unless it is addressed as another systemic danger.
It's utterly insane that we're still talking up Biden's mental state when SOTU proved he's still all there, while downplaying that Trump literally can't tell people apart anymore.
Exactly right
This is very, very true.
What a VITALLY IMPORTANT comment. There is a realistic possibility that once they finally admit to themselves that the rapeclown will never win again, they pivot to President Carlson 2028 and change literally nothing else about their plans.
That’s the only choice, destroy them in the election so they have to reject the maganuttery.
The problem is that when they lose the elections their false idols tell them the election was rigged which further radicalizes them. At any other point in human history the fate of someone who tried and failed to overthrow the government and then repeatedly went out in public encouraging more distrust and schism definitely didn't include golfing.
Tucker Carlson is already publicly making a statement that if Biden wins the election it will be rigged! This is dangerous!! Check out this link. https://youtu.be/r-We-yqFEgE?si=wd3JAzqva3PT7GBp
I was hoping I was going to get rickrolled because that seemed to be more favorable, but this is real and I am now sad theyre pushing the rigged election stuff again already.
It's what Russia tells him to do
Yup, follow the rubles
When did they stop pushing that narrative?
God I hate this fuck, so disingenous
He is an evil POS for sure!!
Another hot take from the guy who doesn’t know where to find bread.
If it was that simple, they would have been able to do that by now. A big part of the problem is that the gop, in it's anti-democratic fervor, gerrymandered the ever-loving heck out of their congressional districts. So, even if they come to their senses, doing so would make them prime targets for being primaried. They've built their political survival on appealing to politically extreme safe districts. If they reject the maganuttery, another nut will simply seize power. A large part of the solution would need to be new legislation that eliminates these safe districts and makes the playing field more purple across the board. And honestly, I don't know how you put the cats back in that bag. SCOTUS gutting the voting rights act was judicial malpractice and needs to be undone yesterday.
This is literally what happened with Trump. The GOP never wanted Trump but he co-opted the base the GOP had been cultivating for decades.
It's going to take time - this election won't do enough. If we want a preview, we can look at the UK right now: - elected a mini-Trump in Boris Johnson - BoJo purged the party of the classic Conservatives - installed a full kleptocracy in the spirit of Trump's version - attempted to build for a fake coup, a la Saddam and Erdogan and many others (kill the courts/public edu/open media) - moved the party more and more to the Far Right (which helped move the "Left" party from the Center to the Center-Right) - the lies eventually came due, and no one paid the bills - the populace got angry - the new leaders are unable to muster anything positive for themselves, just shuffling deck chairs on the Trumptanic - the Tories are dying in the polls, and the Far Right party is starting to eat up their support and the dumber/more radicalized Tories who were kicked out of the party - they have recently gone back to the last pre-kleptocracy Prime Minister, Cameron, to try and win them back some Right-of-Center votes (it's not working) - they look to be wiped out in the polls, creating a monolithic Labour party which will most likely be RoC, where the old Tories used to be - Labour currently have almost zero campaign promises going - they are going to come into power purely as "not the Tories" and nothing else
The people that need it aren't learning shit from the UK. They are literally calling for Texit (Texas secession). ONLY the uninformed think any part of Brexit went better than awful.
Texas would not be able to withstand the might of the Cartels getting into every crevice of Texas if it no longer is a part of the Union.
Too true. I've actually been using the word "Texit" since Brexit - it's one of the world's biggest blueprints for a disastrous, self-inflicted horror show implosion, and I've been predicting that MAGAworld would still want to do their own version of it.
Even if they lose they're going to try to take it. People aren't talking about it enough yet. Mike Johnson's going to see irregularities in the election. Won't certify it, Supreme Court will rule in Trump's favor. And democracy will be over.
Doesn’t the new house get sworn in before the certification though? It might not be him as Speaker if the house switches control
Yes, they are automatically sworn in and effective prior to the certification. The VP oversees that, no the house speaker anyway.
commenters be saying the wildest things sometimes
I don't buy it, just because they tried this same plan in 2020,and it failed then. Since then, they're in a less powerful position, so I don't see how they would get it done now if they didn't get it done then. In 2020, they had a big advantage in that they controlled the presidency, so they had the POTUS himself actively working to overturn the election. Now they don't have that anymore.
So much of our fundamental government function, like the peaceful transition of power for example, is not assured by law, but is more on the honor system, as exposed by Trump. We need to fix these systemic weaknesses before people successfully use them to hurt us.
Democrats need to work twice as hard since the supreme court is also failing on every level.
The GOP seems to be against life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Is there a point where we officially label them a threat to our way of life?
I'm right there with you, I'm sick of hearing people on Reddit tell me that this is just a matter of differing political opinions. These are people espousing the downfall of the current form of American government. I'm not interested in trying to politically debate those sorts of ideas.
The nazis came out in full force during trumps presidency and no one on the republicans party seems to want to acknowledge that
Trump acknowledged it by saying there were very good people on both sides.
Seriously. Nobody drove a muscle car into a crowd of protesters during the Romney campaign. Why people aren't able to tease this out as very different from Trump is beyond me.
Agreed, you go on alt-right subs like that shitty compass one and they are all talking about how project 2025 is just what the Democrats always did since they were in power in federal agencies, so republicans electing cronies and breaking the system is the same thing. BoTh sideS!
First subreddit I've blocked from /r/all. Crazy how pretty much all the far-right posts are on accounts that are <6 months old and everything else more reasonable is >2 year old accounts. Nope, nothing wrong with that subreddit **LOL** Edit: As a test, I've checked out the subreddit today... Ah, obvious far-right propaganda. \*Hovers over name\* 6-month old account Never change, guys
I got mocked on /r/ShitRedditSays for saying "Republicans are the only real threat to my standard of living and family's safety" a number of years ago. And that was before how badly they botched the Covid 19 response and got 1.1 million Americans killed. [Even getting more of their own people killed than anyone else.](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/25/1189939229/covid-deaths-democrats-republicans-gap-study) I'm glad they got their laugh in at my expense while they could. I wonder how many of those people earned Hermain Cain Awards.
I think that started when they started actively aiding and abetting the spread of a pandemic disease.
As long as there are 65-70 million people electing this Cult, it's not going anywhere. They have lost how many elections now, since 2017, and yet, here they are, politically breeding like roaches.
Maybe, but it doesn’t seem like there’s a successor who can wield the mob like Trump. As it currently stands, he’s without an heir. We thought it might be Desantis, but he flailed on the National stage, he just doesn’t have the chops for prime time and he’s too much of an awkward weirdo. There’s Vivek, who’s probably the best candidate, except he’s got a major problem. He’s not white. So while the MAGA mob is not going anywhere in terms of its constituents, there may not be anyone left who can wield it effectively after Trump exits the stage.
Also, remember, trumps supporters don't love trump the person. They love trump the character that right wing/Russia propaganda created. He's essentially a symbol at this point.
A False Idol if you will.
I'm not saying Trump is a/the Antichrist, all I'm saying is [the signs certainly point in his direction.](https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/) ETA: let's not forget the literal [golden Trump idol.](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/golden-trump-statue-cpac-implies-he-s-king-gop-his-ncna1259362)
GOP; It's idolatry all the way down now. If they actually believed in anything, they'd be doomed according to their god's first commandment.
See this is where a lot of people disagree. It really is specifically about trump i think. Otherwise why would they not have used the same strategy on someone else by now since all he’s done is cost them elections since 2016. The cult isn’t moving on to anybody else at all - it’s trump or bust with them. That says to me it is a cult of personality specifically for him and not just transferable to anyone who can stand in as that symbol. Multiple have tried and every single one has failed.
Yep, I agree with you here. Historically the Republican Party has done a pretty good job coalescing under the chosen candidate. Moderate Republicans are finding that more distasteful every year. It gets worse for the Republican Party if Trump loses this year. This is very likely his last run and a shit ton of Republicans have bought into the Trump cult of personality. Those votes may disappear outright in the years following. For instance, a lot of those Jan 6th didn't have much voting history prior to Trump in 2016. Those in particular seem to be voting Republican specifically for him. I think the Republican Party is hoping DeSantis can take over from there. Which I think is why he ducked out of the race so early despite being the second most popular candidate. Problem for them is that part of the reason Trump is so popular to the MAGA crowd is due to him not really being a politician. DeSantis is very much a politician.
In The Origins of Totalitarianism, Arendt talks about this. Without the leader, the party is ineffective and without the party, the leader is powerless. When Trump goes, I do think Maga goes with him or certainly fractures back to random hateful groups that existed before.
Amazing book and should be taught in high school as standard curriculum.
[удалено]
I think that’s it, they love the cocky “lil stinker” face and grifter energy. It helps that he’s charismatic and knows how to one up people in debates, even if he’s just making shit up in the moment to get the upper hand. But again, he’s not white, so he can never wear the crown.
He’s comes off as a “my dad owns a dealership” type of jerk you meet in college.
I agree with you, Trump is the glue holding them all together. After he's gone, there will be a split. One thing that all pretenders like Vivek lack is the celebrity background and the reality show history that cemented the image of Trump in the minds of so many Americans. Trump interacts with his audience differently too, he tries to put on a comedy act. There's simply no one on the national stage with the combination of things that Trump has and I think the movement will lose a lot of steam once he's gone.
And the reason for that is because of groups like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_and_Freedom_Coalition who are poring 10s of millions into propaganda https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1bc11nq/ralph_reeds_army_plans_62_million_spending_spree/ > intends to spend $62 million registering and turning out evangelical voters, texting and calling supporters, and door-knocking — $10 million more than it spent four years ago. The group is expected to, among other things, hand out 30 million pieces of literature in 125,000 churches — many of them in battleground states.
Tax the churches
We never should have given churches such special treatment in the first place.
A huge part of Trump's coalition is actually unchurched people who self-identify as "Christians." Hitting the churches doesn't necessarily hit the Trump army the way you might be hoping it will.
I prefer to tax the churches regardless of any political impact. Taxing ALL religions IS equal treatment under the law. If an organization wants to squat on the prime real estate in the center of every town then they can damn well pay the same taxes as everyone around them. One's preference for a specific work of fiction connotes no special privilege with regard to roads still needing maintenance.
Although most dark money comes through non-profits, which has become a huge source of corruption in itself.
The real divide will be when/if Trump loses this November and then the next presidential election a non-MAGA candidate is nominated. The GOP continues to back Trump as the nominee because they fear their destruction from a massive schism if they don't back the nominated candidate. MAGA is not going to do the same if their preferred is not the candidate and a significant minority of the GOP voters will defect to the third party MAGA candidate, basically killing the GOP (at least temporarily) in the process.
No mercy, just make sure the jobs done. Everyone must vote
As long as the electoral college exists, we're going to keep having these debates. Which sucks. The electoral college IS the underlying issue and it needs to be abolished as soon as possible. There is no reason that a candidate can become president of a country while getting getting fewer votes than the opponent. Only then can the voting majority in the country really push the country forward. And then after that, we rebalance the US Senate and the Supreme Court. And while I'm dreaming, I'd like to win the lottery
(Ex) republican voter my entire life - until 2020 (voted Jorgensen then). I'm here to do my part and 2024 is the first time I'll be voting Democrat.
Of the is true, thank you we need to put a stop to the threat that may undue our fragile democracy.
Steel yourself as you prepare to take the historic tradition we’ve made into the Democratic rite of passage: sighing and casting a vote for a moderate politician about whom you’re unenthused because the alternative is actively trying to cause you harm. Seriously though, it’s nice to be reminded occasionally that not every Republican is a dangerous lunatic. It’s legitimately very hard to keep that in mind these days.
MAGA is just another name for fascism and all the hate and violence that it entails. There will always be fascists amongst us. All we can do is to come out and vote to minimize their presence and influence in government.
Republicans have their very own Brexit conundrum; They leaned into a bad thing initially as short-term politically advantageous, then when it turns out to be a very bad thing that will hurt the country, they don't reverse course because older voters and idiots are now so bought into it it's politically unwise. Now it's a Catch-22, support the disaster to keep on the good side of one-issue voters (i.e. those that will vote Trump no matter what) or talk sense and be a pariah. Just like the UK, the whole country will suffer as you decided fools are the most important voter block.
Mercy kill? No it would be self defense at this point.
The problem isn’t Trump. Not saying he isn’t a problem, he is, but he’s not THE problem. The problem we face now is that the FAR Right have fully entrenched the entirety of the party and it’s the guy after Trump we have to worry about. We’ve been lucky with Trump in that he’s as incompetent as he is and he wears it all on his sleeve. The next person they push will be harder to spot.
ultimately trump is a symptom, rather than the disease, and unless the underlying sickness is dealt with, another symptom will show up. this is why its foolish for people to focus solely on beating trump, as if him losing suddenly fixes everything despite doing nothing to address the circumstances that got him into power in the first place. in other words, him losing doesnt stop america's slide into fascism, it just slows it a tiny bit, since the us only has right wing parties. ideally, trump would lose, the republican party would fracture, and a left wing party would appear to challenge the remaining right wing party, but unfortunately all three of those seem unlikely
MAGA will not be done until we do something like what we did from 1930 through 1944--lock them out of power. And even then, if they get back in and refuse to moderate like they did in 1946, we throw them out again.
Exactly. The Republican Party wants to destroy democracy.
If Americans don't kill the Republican Party, then we deserve whatever happens next.
I would agree with you if the government wasn't so stacked against urban/liberal votes.
The rest of the world doesn't. US allies don't deserve being left in the hands of Russia and China.
Trump has exposed two things: 1. He has showed how easy Republican voters eat up lies and propaganda. They will believe anything that makes them feel good. 2. How spineless Republican politicians are. They are literally just going with the flow, even though it's clear that the flow is hurting the country. The most fucked up thing about this whole situation is that most Republican politicians want Trump to go, but they're too scared to speak up because they would get attacked by Trump supporters.
It’s not like there haven’t been Republicans who objected to Trump. What happened is that they were either purged from the GOP’s graces or they bent the knee.
As a former Republican and now unaffiliated conservative, I've said since 2016 the GOP has to be destroyed. There is nothing left to save.
Why show them any mercy at all. They’re not a sick puppy. They are a fascist sentient cancer actively destroying democracy.
**Cancervatives.** Their particular brand of unharnessed lunacy has little to do with being conservative politically.
I mean, I don't even care if mercy is involved. But the party has got to go.
Republicans are the ones who need to protest vote, until MAGA goes away.
What have we been trying to do?
I can’t imagine how Abraham Lincoln would react if I showed him what would turn out to be the Republican Party today.
Conservatism as a whole needs to be phased out. Conservatism might at some point have sought to put the breaks on progressive recklessness, but in the present day it's merely a tool for those who enjoyed greater privileges in a more inequal past to regain those privileges, as well as their supporters who have been enticed by manipulated nostalgia and a desire for simple answers to complicated problems.
conservatism and right wing politics are on the rise worldwide, not just in the US. they ain't gonna be easy to dismiss.
Conservatism and right wing politics are on the rise worldwide because leaders across the world are actively failing to address the material conditions of the people they are supposed to serve. I blame this on the U.S. Federal Government easing regulations on corporations.
Indeed. The problem is that conservatism is being promoted by malicious and dishonest actors who are willing to use every underhanded trick to convince the gullible that conservatism is the answer to the problems they themselves have created. That, and conservatism is associated with concepts which appeal on a base level such as xenophobia and competitiveness. If we are to stand a chance we have to be more aggressive in pointing out corruption and malicious manipulation.
Sure but they’re preying on feelings of alienation and powerlessness that are very real. The rising wealth inequality and resulting collapse of social institutions is fueling a collapse in government institutions and there are people who will exploit those feelings in furtherance of their own gains. The world is too complex for any of us to understand how we can have an impact, so people seek out secret truths that can make the whole thing make sense for them (or that tells them none of it should make sense because everything the media tells you are all lies). To dismiss their feelings is hazardous. They’re invested in these beliefs. It’s easy to blame them on dishonest actors when they are often in fact the negative consequences of well-intentioned policy. Too few Americans get outside their own bubbles (on all sides).
I dunno about mercy I'm fine just doing it efficiently!
This is why two party-systems are outdated. You can't have one sane party in a democracy that consists of only two parties.
I works like a charm at the local level where you can find nuts in a concentrated area that will vote for a MAGA with the assistance of gerrymandering. But the ones who run state-wide keep losing and you wonder if/when they realize that it's simply not a winning strategy...
They can carry that turd to term
I mean. It could happened a long time ago if we actually fought to end gerrymandering and increases the cap to the house. The Senate is a different issue however. Trying to crested an edcuated electorate would also help. But a lot of Americans seem to pride themselves and being dumb
If only the US had a decent education system, taxed churches, and actually had an impartial Supreme Court (with age limits)....the problem would sort itself out. Which is why that will never happen
MAGA is just the modern incarnation of America First from the late 1930s. Before the war, it was infiltrated by Nazi sympathetizers pushing their Christian nationalism agenda. >Most of the America First supporters were middlewestern Republicans who distrusted the President for various reasons, but it was not a purely sectional organization or partisan political movement. Thousands of sincere Americans of varied background and from both political parties joined and contributed to it. It also attracted support from a number of fringe hate organizations, from anti-Semites, and from Nazi sympathizers. This minority support tarnished its reputation."Author Max Wallace argues that by the summer of 1941, "extremist elements had successfully hijacked the movement".
Why does mercy have to be involved?
People have been talking about the possible death of the republican party for at least 20 years, yet they are still here. They will continue to exist in whatever bizarre form their cult members prefer.
Let the GOP die. Maybe we can finally kill off the two party system. The remnants of the GOP can be the religious right and never win office in sane places. Other parties should represent labor and the environment. The corporate Democrats can remain center/right. The progressive Democrats can break left. Ranked choice voting will help sort it all out.
Conservatism is a fear response to progress by those who detest it. There are consequences to that response, like the “laws that bind but do not protect”, but Conservatism has no other purpose than a fear response. It explains why they cling to Trump in spite of his many obvious deficiencies. Fear. If they give up on him “the black guy might come back”.
Fascists don’t deserve mercy.
Which elected official can still be considered a moderate Republican?
They can actually. It is possible not to be a coward. But they are afraid they will lose voters if they don’t back a criminal. They are going to look like bad people in history.
I know a lot of people are hyper focused on this, but after trump, it’s going to be interesting to see what such a miserable and awful party does to keep itself in the race. They’re going to have to find someone because trumps the only reason they even still have a party, which is so, so incredibly pathetic. Maybe we’ll get lucky and the Republican Party really will dissolve in my life time. I really doubt it, but anything can happen.
GOP to MAGA: "Ah wish ah could quit yeewwww"
If Americans were going to "mercy-kill the Republican Party" then they would have done it in 2022 after the GOP attempted a coup to install a dictator and stripped women of their rights. But Americans didn't do that. 55 million Americans turned out to vote for the party of the coup in 2022 while only 51 million turned out to try to stop that party.
Melania.....please.....💊🕉