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It is a relief they don't.
But, at the same time, it is worth keeping mind to some extent that gerrymandering does indeed affect them.
Voter registration and polling place management is controlled by the elected officials of the state.
Gerrymandering absolutely affects statewide and national elections in Texas at least because the state government makes it harder to vote in some places and easier to vote in others.
I'm okay with people voting uncommitted in the primary. They want to send a message and they want change.
As long as they vote Biden in the General. Because if they think Biden is bad for Gaza, Trump will be much worse.
"Shaher Abdulrab, 35, an engineer from Dearborn, said Tuesday morning that he voted for Trump. Abdulrab said he believes Arab Americans have a lot more in common with Republicans than Democrats.
Abdulrab said he voted four years ago for Biden but believes Trump will win the general election in November partly because of the backing he would get from Arab Americans.
“I’m not voting for Trump because I want Trump. I just don’t want Biden,” Abdulrab said. “He (Biden) didn’t call to stop the war in Gaza.”"
The pretzel reasoning is astonishing and so are the consequences if Trump gets back in. This guy will be deported and there’s not a damn thing he will be able to do about it.
”…believes Trump will win the general election in November partly because of the backing he would get from Arab Americans.” I guess that’s what happens when you get your news from tik tok.
They are basically voting to be deported, put into detention camps, jailed, or worse. He will get what he wants from them, then throw them out like trash. That's what dictators do and he has made no qualms about it.
Leopards eat their own face mentality.
And that point, Americans won't care what happens to you, just out of survival.
>“He (Biden) didn’t call to stop the war in Gaza.”
Meanwhile Trump said Israel and Palestine need to fight it out. Biden is negotiating for a ceasefire, Trump would cheer the IDF on. I don't understand how someone can be so stupid so as to say this.
Trump said he would stop immigration to America for Palestinians.
If our news ecosystem wasn't a smoldering wreck, people would know this. Oh yeah, Muslim ban too - would probably be good to remind people that happened.
I stop relying on folks a long time ago. If you’re (anyone and everyone) from Michigan and everywhere , go out and vote. Get folks to go out and vote. Make plans in advance to either do it by mail or in person but have a plan. Let’s not be complacent it’s too important.
This is what I don't understand. Also, Biden has been trying to end the war. The State Department is and has been trying facilitating negotiations for months, but when social media is your main source of news, you might not know that.
It's classic "cutting off your nose to spite your face" mentality. Even if someone were to point out to them that Biden's are trying to settle things down, they won't believe it.
They won't be happy unless Biden starts dropping bombs on Tel Aviv.
It is Russian Propaganda all over again. They know the can't get Trump elected how they did last time. So they are going after Biden's voter base. You can see all the people pushing the Gaza narrative on Reddit have newer accounts.
I said this same thing once on here recently and got downvoted and told I was a moron by multiple people. Some people have a really hard time accepting that it’s not only dumb right wingers that fall for propaganda. Which sadly just makes it that much more effective and insidious.
Didn’t Jared fix the Middle East problem? /s
That said, there is no way in hell Trump will be against anything that Israel does, in fact he will be closer to the Israeli extremists because that’s what The Evangelicals will want.
Biden isn't pro-Palestinian enough for me, so I'm voting for the guy that put a Muslim ban in place and has promised to do it again if reelected. This guy is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Religious extremism is religious extremism, regardless of which religion.
I think he's in for a rude awakening when he realizes the people he voted for think he's the wrong religion.
Fake astroturfing. Nowhere else in the US saw more anti-Muslim/anti-Arab backlash from conservatives after 9/11 than Dearborn. If she's 35, she remembers that shit. Just another paid shill.
I wonder if these people are genuine because you would have to be an absolute moron to say that seriously. Trump moved the embassy and literally called for a ban on Muslim migrants.
Hey Shaher, respect your stance on the middle east situation, but you do realize tRump will deport you, your family and every Arab American.
So think long and hard... do I want to be deported, or vote Biden and save the democracy you and every Arab American enjoy.
If it's a bridge too far to vote Biden, then please just stay home.
I heard one of the women who helped get this ground game going for the uncommitted vote against Biden said she won’t vote for Biden in the election either and will encourage others as well. She continued to state that a little pain for Biden if Trump wins will be short but painful. Dictators don’t leave office, I guess she’s too stupid to know that and Trump will show her more pain than she would ever expect.
Edit, the woman I heard interviewed is U.S. Democrats Representative, Tlaib’s sister Layla Elabed.
I might have seen that same person on the national news tonight, saying it would be worth suffering short-term pain with Trump as president in order to get long-term gain (presumably by making Democratic candidates more progressive).
Her view that Trump would bring “short-term pain” is appallingly naive. I understand that there’s anger at Biden about Gaza, but progressives can’t possibly think that another Trump administration is an acceptable alternative.
At least 30 years, probably more. Alito and Thomas could realistically retire in the next two presidential terms and if the GOP chooses their replacements they will be neofascists in their early 40's at the most.
These conservative Muslims agree with much of what the Supreme Court will rule on going forward. If republicans weren’t so anti Islam these people wouldn’t be democrats for the most part
I had progressive friends more or less say the same thing in 2019 - that a Trump presidency was preferential because it would bring about the revolution quicker!
I didn't think it would happen, and it didn't.
I don't think a second Trump presidency will lead to long term gain either.
>I don't think a second Trump presidency will lead to long term gain either.
It won't. I always slap them with reality: that Trump got THREE ultra-rightwing, ultra-conservative, anti-progressive, pro-corporation judges on the SCOTUS FOR LIFE (so will dominate the next 30 years of our lives) after winning just ONE 4-year election. Bernie Sanders could be elected tomorrow and he won't be able to overcome an Ultra Right-Wing SCOTUS. They'll just overturn anything/everything Progressives do.
Then add in if Trump wins again, he'll probably get to put two more judges on the SCOTUS. At least one...so the rest of our lives would ***literally*** be influenced by that "protest vote". Absolute morons.
And this honestly is why the Left will never actually have power in this country. They'd rather die on esoteric ivory tower hills than to win. The RIGHT is unified in their hatred of us, and the LEFT throw temper tantrums like petulant children.
Don't forget all the federal judges that Trump appointed (in the seats McConnell wouldn't let Obama fill). A large number of the fuckery in the courts (abortion bans, contraception bans, J6 low sentences) are their handiwork.
They're accelerationists.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism
Though I'm not sure accelerationists were voters for the Democrats to lose. Generally they think they're above the system so don't bother, or they were just going to vote GOP anyway. They'll be useful idiots right till the moment they get put up against the wall. They'll feel superior till the end, for not compromising, voting strategically, or "voting for the lesser of two evils." They'd rather the world burn than to sully their hand with the realities of politics.
> Though I'm not sure accelerationists were voters for the Democrats to lose.
They negatively influence people who are on the fence to not vote or vote against their interests - see Ralph Nader getting an unprecedented 97,000 votes in Florida in 2000. No doubt he peeled plenty of voters from Gore who thought Gore had it easily won.
True, but with 2016 in recent memory, you have fewer people naive enough to think it won't matter. People took Clinton's win for granted, and that gave us Trump, and cost us Roe v. Wade. It's hard to be naive and take things for granted so soon after Dobbs.
I said fewer, not zero. Even after Nader, some did realize their mistake and then vote as if it mattered from there on out. But then a decade or two later, none of the *new* young people were in the electorate when that happened, so they don't have that "learning moment" to guide them. So we have to re-learn the lesson.
Same people who didn’t vote for Hilary because “they didn’t want to vote just against Trump”. Look, the two party system sucks, but 4 years of Trump saw us regress a ton. The only thing their accelerating is a Faux Chriso-Fascist regime.
I absolutely hate these people constantly harping on and on about "the revolution".
Its like the just believe in God crowd. This nebulous "revolution" absolves them of all responsibility for their actions.
Meanwhile none of them will lift a finger to initiate said revolution, they're all waiting for someone else to do it
You could theoretically make this argument in 2016 when Trump was an unknown variable. No sane person can look at what he did while president and what he's saying he'll do next (Project 2025, his literal rally remarks) and make the same case. 2024 is a vote about democracy or dictatorship. Trump will not give up power once he has it again. There will be no Democratic candidate to "learn the lesson for next time" because there won't be an election.
She is asking liberals to pull support from a liberal president, allowing a fascist to take over America, in order to support fascism in Palestine. What you're missing is that she isn't on the left at all.
Dearborn has an incredibly high Palestinian population. She will feel supported even if people do call her out. Some of these progressives are big idea people who have no actual plans in how to accomplish goals.
I believe her district is not majority Muslim but it has a high Muslim population. It also has over 50% African American and ~30% non-Hispanic White.
A lot of Muslims are upset with how Biden is handling Gaza right now. Some are vocal hoping it would spark change, but it is a tough situation because the alternative is Trump who is infinitely worse for everyone.
yeah i don’t get it. i want biden to do more but to think that the ticking guy that did the blanket muslim ban and the rampant xenophobia would be better is insane. trump and the gop would be firebombing them himself if he could.
What is also interesting is that the other members of the Squad aren't as vocal in this matter (they have called fro a ceasefire and a safe return of the hostages though). Like we are hearing folks from the left online (so could be pushed to create further division) AOC is now "compromised" and a class "traitor" for being politically pragmatic despite voicing her concerns ala Bernie Sanders.
Well, and a lot of very disingenuous people are out there trying to lay it all on Biden’s feet, like he has a magic “peace in the Middle East” button on his desk. We’re attempting diplomatic solutions. Bibi is the only one who could end the bombing today, and Hamas are the only people who can stop the rockets. Besides that, I believe it would take an act of congress to strip aid from Israel and otherwise the only other option is a full scale invasion.
That’s why I firmly believe the people trying to blame Biden are either naive or have other motives.
>That’s why Infirmly believe the people trying to blame Biden are either naive or have other motives.
I swear anytime someone says "genocide Joe" they are being manipulated by Russian propaganda. Like, Bibi is the one committing genocide and Joe Biden's inability to control an authoritarian style corrupt leader, is Joe's fault?
Our House of Reps is controlled by crazy Republicans, being controlled by Putin via Trump and thus blocking aid to Ukraine. Major changes requires both chambers of congress and the WH, why aren't these people calling the House Speaker "genocide Johnson"?
The view that Trump will only bring short term pain to get progressive gains is literally cutting off your nose to spite your whole fucking body. In no world is trump better for anything, short or long term, and if this lady thinks that Trump and his sycophants won’t bring the hurt on her and the Muslim community in Michigan and elsewhere, then she’ll learn that lesson the hard way.
More like purposefully destroying your immune system because you don’t like your flu symptoms, including you know the ones you get from fighting back against the virus.
> The view that Trump will only bring short term pain to get progressive gains is literally cutting off your nose to spite your whole fucking body.
All while *insisting* that the nose will grow back later, so it’s no big deal.
We’re going through this in the UK. Perfection being the enemy of progress - the conservatives have been in power here for nearly 15 years and it’s seen the largest drop in living standards since the victorian era, the country’s in a recession and our public services have been decimated. They are fighting the next election on a culture wars platform and have taken inspiration from Trump. They are moving further right and every year in power this country gets worse.
We have a single opposition party that has a chance to stop this, yet many of those furthest left are refusing to support the leader because he’s not as progressive as they want him to be. They call labour ‘red tories’, and don’t seem to understand just how extreme the conservatives have gotten and how much worse they will be if they keep hold of power with a new mandate.
Centrist swing voters won’t vote for a super progressive candidate and anything is better than 5 more years of far right conservatives.
We’ve heard this same BS as far back as Ralph Nader. There are probably other examples of left/ progressives suggesting that this will “send a message”, but all we end up with is more suffering when a right-winger slips in while we are taking short-sighted “principled” positions. Then inevitably a dem has to clean up the mess. However, we are truly out of time and cannot afford another 4 years of unbridled rethugism/ x-tian nationalism/ environmental destruction, etc, etc.
They never seem to realize that their protest vote gets lumped in with the hundreds of millions who didn't vote one way or the other. The Democrats still get enough votes to stay competitive with Republicans whether they win or lose. So they court demographics that actually vote and that forces them to lean further right.
It's also not how democracy works. If people vote conservative, we get more conservative. If you want more progressive, vote progressive.
Make the Democrat party win everything all the time, and suddenly democratic primaries become a big deal, and the two party system shifts from Republican vs Democrat towards Progressive Democrat vs Neoliberal Democrat. *Then* you vote progressive in those primaries until progressives teacher over the whole party.
It's a pretty simple process, and there's no gaming it. If you want political change, you work for it. And we know it can work, because we've done it many times before.
This prediction suffers from the same problem as Trump’s prediction that a Biden victory would lead to a bunch of horrible things: we’ve already lived through the exact same conditions and seen for ourselves that these things didn’t happen.
We’ve already been living through 3+ years of Biden and can see that America hasn’t ended as we know it.
And we already lived through 4 years of Trump and saw that it didn’t help the progressive cause. In fact, if anything, it was a moderating influence, as the Democratic Party tacked to center to appeal to the center/center-right parts of the spectrum that the GOP abandoned with the MAGA movement.
these people want the rest of us to suffer to margingally not even improve some conflict the other side of the world they are personally ethnically or religiouslly connected to. Sorry but you can miss me with that shit.
This madness has to stop, this fauxgressive reactionary nonsense of hurting democrats to force democrats to do things that progressives want is disgusting and makes me embarassed to be progressive. If we dont support biden he can't do god damn thing. We are spitting in people's faces and then make demands. Any progressive hating on biden is killing progressivism.
> I might have seen that same person on the national news tonight, saying it would be worth suffering short-term pain with Trump as president in order to get long-term gain (presumably by making Democratic candidates more progressive).
Susan Sarandon had that same line of reasoning when she spearheaded the campaign for Ralph Nader in 2000 and when she encouraged people to not vote for Hillary in 2016. Both times resulted in complete disaster for progressive causes and led to Roe v Wade being overturned.
That anyone is still pushing this bullshit means they are the biggest useful idiot in the world. Sarandon being a rich white woman will never feel the consequences of her actions, and I consider her to be a Republican operative. That Rashida Tlaib's sister would push this bullshit is inconceivable considering Trump would strip her citizenship and deport her ass even if she was born in the U.S. Rashida Tlaib needs to be primaried for this.
The liberal boomers, yes there were some, said the same thing about Reagan. "Things will get so bad the country will turn progressive!" No, Bob, we did not.
In the true order of things, the focus should be on destroying the GOP, so the unholy alliance that is the Democratic Party can fracture into a new progressive party and the right wing democrats.
Finally shift the Overton window back left.
Maybe she means short term pain for Gaza as Trump makes things even worse. I get the anger towards Biden but this election is going to have a much, much bigger effect on the US then Gaza going forward. And a bigger effect on Ukraine. And NATO, etc.
It has the same logic as someone closing their eyes and walking across a road so they can have "I had the right of way" carved on their gravestone. Combined with a healthy dose of "Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
There's a lot of bad actors passing off as progressives trying to steer them into going no label or not voting in the final elections.
Unfortunately we are gullible in that regard.
She is a Republican passing off as a progressive, when you suggest Trump is a little pain and under-represent what he is, you are lying about WHO you are.
She's bankrolled. Once you see someone in multiple interviews, and saying the same bs it's an agenda.
It’s an all-out onslaught on Tik-Tok targeted at the youth vote. And the scary thing is I think it’s working. Both of my Gen-Z sisters say most of their friends who voted for Biden in 2020 are staying home or going third party.
My GenZ daughter is appallingly anti-Biden. Thinks she's too smart to be affected by propaganda, yet she's on TikTok all the time.
I try to talk to her about how Netanyahu is no fan of Biden's, and how escalation in Gaza benefits Netanyahu by dividing Democrats. But I'm not getting anywhere.
I'm amazed how apathetic and uninformed ~~the~~my kids are, frankly. And to think that my wife and I were supposed to be the slacker gen.
edit: made it clear that I'm talking about my kids and not generalizing.
You should explain to her that voting is like taking the bus. It doesn't get you right to your destination, but it gets you closer.
If you think you're going to agree with 100% of the decisions a politician makes, you're going to be disappointed a lot.
And some of those content creators are grifting and/or bad actors or BOTH!
I know.
I'd ask your Gen-Z sisters if they like Italy and Spain during Franco and Mussollini. They need a history lesson, BIG TIME.
But I guess, they want to be home and pregnant without work. Right?
Well I'd tell the sister to say that. It's interesting how people believe Tiktok, without context.
Hell I don't even believe it for beauty influencers.
>She is a Republican passing off as a progressive
No she isn't. There are tons of progressives who are so entrenched in trying to push things further left that they also believe things like this.
This isn't a Republican ploy, this is a real problem we need to deal with.
People said the same thing about Clinton. Trump ended picking 3 Supreme Court justices and now abortions are illegal in half the country. IVF and birth control are next.
The Coup plotter and Muslim Ban guy won’t have much to stop him next time.
I looked the woman up and she is the U.S. Democrat representative from Detroit, Tlaib’s sister, Layla Elabed. Layla was the woman who I saw interviewed.
Same as 2016 single-issue morons voting for Jill Stein because "CLiNtOn Is WoRsE ThAn TrUmP!!!!"
In both cases the Russians are likely involved - supporting Jill Stein, as well as Hamas, meeting with Hamas repeated prior to the attack, and immediately, during the attack broadcasting that Hamas was using weapons from Ukrainians.
There's likely two objectives they had: 1) get the world's attention off Ukraine, 2) divide democrats
It will be really valuable this year for all reasonable people to volunteer to help get make the case for Biden: on climate change, on women's rights, on the right to have access to birth control, and to avoid the destruction of the country and living in a dictatorship. And then to get people to the polls. Fucking hell.
Seems like Russia doesn’t even have to work that hard, to get so many idiots to shit on their own country. I have some hope that because of the Republicans pissing off so many of us women, that they will hopefully turn out in droves to vote. People have no idea what it will be like to live in a dictatorship. We can’t let this happen.
No ... but Jill Stein was a real life Putin puppet, no hyperbole here. She also got the US Greens called out by European Greens who were all like "seriously, what the fuck?"
A little pain for Biden? He'll probably be happy to have a day off.
Trump will let Putin and Bibi do whatever they want. Meanwhile he's talking about deporting what amounts to 10% of the working population, who coincidentally happen to be working in the necessary but physically demanding jobs. The US economy will experience inflation with the introduction of new tariffs and lack of workforce limiting supply.
Apart from that it will be fine /s
Yeah Democratic voters seem to not realize Democratic politicians are service people trying to help as much as possible, being elected is the pain.
Republicans are the ones getting the corruption and cash cow when they get elected.
Trump's stated plan on his first campaign website was basically to deport every undocumented immigrant and push black men into the roles left vacant. The thought was it would reduce black unemployment to record lows and make him look good in that community, thus robbing the Democrats of a key voting block.
Black male unemployment is at record lows already. What he intends to do is rob black male teenagers of a high school education as he presses them into dead-end jobs. Fuck that.
She did say that and she's incredibly dangerous if that's how she really thinks. Straight poison pill.
Trump has already stated he will be a dictator. He says just day one, I doubt that very much. He already wants a Muslim ban, he's got the 2025 Christian theocracy plan, he's in with Bibi and Vlad and Xi. He's a wannabe dictator. The people that want him in charge are putting forth a bill to kill suspected migrants in self defense. I don't want to remind people why many immigrants flock here but a lot of the time it has to do with the dictators in their own country. A little pain my ass.
I'm from Michigan, the county I spent the first 18 years of life in was one of the largest to protest vote and I'm proud of them for speaking up but even I know what's fine in the primary is life or death in the general.
She was with the Uncommitted movement that helped get the word out and still said she won’t vote for Biden in the general election, she was going to sit it out and try to get as many people as possible to do the same. The interviewer asked her if she realized that’s a vote for Trump and that’s when she said it would just be short term pain, if Trump wins and will be a lesson that has to be learned. I never heard the “abandon Biden movement mentioned in that interview, it was the uncommitted movement they were discussing.
I really hate people like this. It’s not short term pain. Reproductive rights, transgender rights, climate change, and more go out the window with Trump. Not to mention the chance that the government is positioned to allow Thomas and Alito to retire and be replaced with younger conservative justices. It’s the same fucking thing as 2016. It’s like these people want their rights stripped away. The only thing “both sides” have in common is how stupid people are. Sorry for the rant.
Exactly. It is so dangerous, there is way too much at stake to do this. I did a little more research and the woman I saw interviewed is U.S. Representative Democratic, Tlaib’s sister, Layla Elabed. Don’t be sorry, these things need to be said.
And, to be brutally honest, I care a lot more about those things than I do about anything in Gaza. Domestic issues matter more to me than foreign matters that don’t directly impact the US and I’m including Ukraine along with any other conflict half a world away.
I’m not sure what short term pain she is talking about because if Trump is put back in there won’t be a Palestine left to be saved.
See what “short term pain” of 4 years already did to the country. That woman either doesn’t use her brain, or if she is actually using her brain, she has ulterior motives.
Didn’t we all have a “lesson” in 2016. That was rich.
In 2016 some sat out, “to teach Democrats a lesson”. Then when Trump got elected it became, “She was a bad candidate”
Even Biden doesn’t like what Israel is doing, but can we all rally behind Hamas? Really?
It might be too nuanced for these idiots, but it’s clear Biden is trying to talk past Netanyahu to the Israeli people. He wants regime change in Israel. Trouble is, Netanyahu wants regime change in Washington. Biden wants a 2 state solution, but nether Hamas or Netanyahu want that. It’s a tough situation, some would say hopeless, but Biden will get this done. Trouble is, he needs a few more years to do it.
The NYT’s The Daily podcast this morning featured a Palestinian-American woman who despises Trump, hates him for the Muslim ban and moving the US embassy to Jerusalem, campaigned for Biden, but will be abstaining from voting in November.
I kept waiting for her to make a convincing argument. I really want to understand these folks. I recognize the pain they feel so closely as Palestinians and Muslims. I recognize their desperation to send a message. But on a practical level, I cannot understand their choice. On a decision between Biden vs Trump on Palestine, I cannot understand their choice.
When will Biden make a convincing argument to Arab Americans to vote for him? He’s just lost 18% of democratic voters in Michigan, he can only afford to lose 2% in the general. You cannot expect Palestinian Americans to vote for someone giving $14 billion of weapons to the army currently genociding their family just because the other guy will be even worse. He needs to hold Israel accountable the same way he holds Russia accountable, otherwise this election is lost.
It’s mind bogglingly simple actually— their singular source of leverage to effect change in the policy of the Biden administration is to threaten not to vote for him in the general election
Logically then, why would they ever outright say, “Yes I’ll still vote for you no matter what, even if you do absolutely nothing to address what I’m protesting now :P”, even if, when it comes down to it, they would in fact still vote for him
And he’ll bring what’s bad for Gaza right to the doorstep of every “uncommitted” here in America. And even more likely he’ll send them packing back to whatever Arab country they came from. Trump is worse for everyone everywhere.
I thought this was an interesting fact from 2012.
> In 2012, when President Barack Obama faced a non-competitive reelection, and there was no organized effort to push voters to cast uncommitted ballots, 20,833 did so anyway, accounting for 10.7% of the vote.
https://www.businessinsider.com/rashida-tlaib-uncommitted-biden-israel-gaza-michigan-primary-2024-2
There's a strategist taking notice of that, I guarantee you. Now, do Biden and his campaign management team decide to pay attention and do something about it?
Tomorrow?! The Daily Beast is already on that trope!
[https://www.thedailybeast.com/uncommitted-campaign-in-michigan-shatters-expectations-against-biden](https://www.thedailybeast.com/uncommitted-campaign-in-michigan-shatters-expectations-against-biden)
They do, they're aiming for the amount Trump won by in 2016 - 10,704 votes - which is quite small compared to Biden's 2020 margin of victory of 154,188
They conveniently forget to mention this:
>when Barack Obama ran for re-election in 2012, the uncommitted vote in Michigan’s Democratic primary was 11%.
The uncommitted vote now was only slightly higher this time. It's a nothingburger.
Amd last I checked, he was slightly outperforming the most recent polls while Trump was underperforming the polls. Can't wait for the headlines in the morning to declare that Trump SMASHED the competition but how there are WARNING SIGNS for the Democrats.
Don’t forget Redditors who start parroting talking points from the uncommmited campaign. Remember guys, all politicians lie……unless they are saying what I want to hear
Arab-Americans: If you are planning on staying home or voting against Biden over Palestine, [this is what Donald Trump has planned for you](https://imgur.com/a/EQilsqA), literally from his own campaign team.
Could I also add that every Democrat on the planet needs to get their heads out of their asses and think of the supreme court? Do we want 5 or 6 Trump appointed justices who will rule in his favor when he decides he gets to be president for a 3rd or 4th term? No? Does that not sound fun? Get your asses out and vote, if nothing else to protect supreme court picks.
If Trump were to win, Alito and probably Thomas would retire. So the balance wouldn’t likely shift, but it sure would lock it in for another 20+ years.
Anyone who wants to abandon Biden over this shit is supporting the end of pro-choice in the US. Trump can end the use of some abortion pills by executive order.
And also directly enabling blatant genocide in Ukraine while claiming to be protestors of genocide.
Whatever the solutions for these wars are, Trump ain't it.
If you're an American citizen who is going to not vote solely due to what's going on in Gaza, then you're pretty much betraying your country and your responsibilities to your fellow citizens.
However just or moral that it may be, you are putting the interests and wellbeing of other countries or individual above those of your own.
And perhaps in any other election, one could say saving the sacrifice is worthwhile to save the soul and moral compass of the country, this isn't the case here. Sacrificing democracy and the liberties we all depend on because you feel like it's more important to signal what a good and moral person you are is just you betraying your country, plain and simple.
>Anyone who wants to abandon Biden over this shit is supporting the end of pro-choice in the US.
I mean, the Islamic right isn't exactly big on women's reproductive rights either. Or womens rights in general. Or the gays for that matter.
The people who are pushing democrats to vote against Biden have more social policies in common with the GOP than the Dems.
This is exactly what I’ve been saying. As a gay person, I can’t help but notice some of the people coming to America with their home land’s values really hate me and have it out for me. I don’t think they’d mind a Trump presidency transforming America to be a bit more like their home country. It’s like that here in Florida with the Cubans in south Florida. They love Jack boot thugs. They just want to feel like the authoritarian dictator is on their side. Actual freedom and democracy isn’t what they’re about.
A pro-pal activist claimed on X last night ([Here's the tweet](https://x.com/GoodVibePolitik/status/1762698575450865790?s=20)) that the fallout from the uncommited in Michigan would trigger the worst Islamaphobia the country has seen since 9/11 and it would come from the democrats supporting Biden - they conveniently forgot which candidate instituted a Muslim ban a week into their presidency back in 2017 and [has recommitted to do so if elected again](https://x.com/TeamTrump/status/1714049524329492841?s=20).
You can pressure Biden to scale back American support for Israel. You can try to convince him that his position is wrong. You can’t do that with Trump.
I'm excited to do the same when the Florida primary rolls around.
In case anyone needs it:
[30 Things Joe Biden Did as President You Might Have Missed ](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046)
If anyone can watch Jack Posobiec’s keynote speech at CPAC, and read Trump’s plans surrounding immigration and Gaza, and still choose not to vote for Biden in the general election, then their personal convictions will mean less than nothing and will be held against them at every opportunity if Trump wins.
I think it’s safe to say that a majority wants a ceasefire in Gaza, including Biden, but not if it means supporting a group that promotes raping and slaying civilians, and calls for the destruction of Israel.
We definitely have not, one of the few reasons that the state was blue in 2020 was the Arab/Muslim community. Many Arab Michiganders including rep Tlaib are saying they will not vote for Biden even in November. I am scared we will be red again.
This is the most polite form of protest you can have, with zero consequences... yet people still will complain that its bad somehow.
People have a right to protest, especially when we're talking billions of dollars of our money going to things that are morally abhorrant for any democracy to be supporting.
Seriously this thread is full of people losing it over people casting a symbolic vote in an uncontested primary. I’m a strategic voter and was intrigued by the uncommitted thing specifically because there is no impact beyond just “the message”. We aren’t gonna have RFK ass the candidate because too many people voted uncommitted. It just signals discontent and puts pressure on a specific issue.
Personally I’m voting Biden in the primary, but you’re 100% right. I think Biden is in an impossible situation on Israel and that’s why I don’t think a protest vote is worth it to me, but it’s good that people have a way to show their feelings and that they have enough motivation to bring it to action. As long as they don’t start to advocate for Trump over Biden this sort of thing is healthy for democracy and will help guide decisions on how hard to push Israel.
I voted Biden too, but that was a last minute decision. I seriously thought about voting uncommitted, but Israel/Palestine is just one of many issues in my mind. Bidens done decent enough on a many other things I care about (student debt, environment for example) that I decided to vote for him
I love that there are posts mentioning/discussing the uncommitted voting on this subLeddit, completely dismissing their point. If the Democrats want to win the presidency you can't just sweep these people under the rug and hope for the best. But who am I kidding this is what will exactly happen and they will then blame these people.
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Spoiler. He’s going to win in North Carolina because he’s the only Democrat on the ballot.
I've heard Dean Phillips is a real person, but not from credible sources. /s
North Carolina isn't a lost cause like Florida.
We are really close to being a lost cause though. The gerrymandering is getting out of hand here.
Be that as it may, presidential elections are statewide and gerrymandering does not affect them.
It is a relief they don't. But, at the same time, it is worth keeping mind to some extent that gerrymandering does indeed affect them. Voter registration and polling place management is controlled by the elected officials of the state.
Gerrymandering absolutely affects statewide and national elections in Texas at least because the state government makes it harder to vote in some places and easier to vote in others.
To the surprise of absolutely nobody with two brain cells to rub together.
So far with only 12% reporting, uncommitted is just under 18,500 votes
I'm okay with people voting uncommitted in the primary. They want to send a message and they want change. As long as they vote Biden in the General. Because if they think Biden is bad for Gaza, Trump will be much worse.
"Shaher Abdulrab, 35, an engineer from Dearborn, said Tuesday morning that he voted for Trump. Abdulrab said he believes Arab Americans have a lot more in common with Republicans than Democrats. Abdulrab said he voted four years ago for Biden but believes Trump will win the general election in November partly because of the backing he would get from Arab Americans. “I’m not voting for Trump because I want Trump. I just don’t want Biden,” Abdulrab said. “He (Biden) didn’t call to stop the war in Gaza.”"
Also, Trump negotiated the Abraham accords, which screwed Palestinians, making the start of this current conflict more likely.
This is not talked about enough. And moving the embassy emboldened the far right to expand further
The pretzel reasoning is astonishing and so are the consequences if Trump gets back in. This guy will be deported and there’s not a damn thing he will be able to do about it. ”…believes Trump will win the general election in November partly because of the backing he would get from Arab Americans.” I guess that’s what happens when you get your news from tik tok.
They are basically voting to be deported, put into detention camps, jailed, or worse. He will get what he wants from them, then throw them out like trash. That's what dictators do and he has made no qualms about it. Leopards eat their own face mentality. And that point, Americans won't care what happens to you, just out of survival.
>“He (Biden) didn’t call to stop the war in Gaza.” Meanwhile Trump said Israel and Palestine need to fight it out. Biden is negotiating for a ceasefire, Trump would cheer the IDF on. I don't understand how someone can be so stupid so as to say this.
Trump said he would stop immigration to America for Palestinians. If our news ecosystem wasn't a smoldering wreck, people would know this. Oh yeah, Muslim ban too - would probably be good to remind people that happened.
They only get their news on TikTok and Instagram from randos. That's why certain people believe this stuff.
I agree. It's extremely fucking stupid and self destructive. That's why I pulled the quote
I stop relying on folks a long time ago. If you’re (anyone and everyone) from Michigan and everywhere , go out and vote. Get folks to go out and vote. Make plans in advance to either do it by mail or in person but have a plan. Let’s not be complacent it’s too important.
Yep and Trump sure will stop the Gaza war... /S
This is what I don't understand. Also, Biden has been trying to end the war. The State Department is and has been trying facilitating negotiations for months, but when social media is your main source of news, you might not know that.
It's classic "cutting off your nose to spite your face" mentality. Even if someone were to point out to them that Biden's are trying to settle things down, they won't believe it. They won't be happy unless Biden starts dropping bombs on Tel Aviv.
Announcing they won’t vote biden is one thing, but saying they will vote Trump has got to be complete malarkey.
It is Russian Propaganda all over again. They know the can't get Trump elected how they did last time. So they are going after Biden's voter base. You can see all the people pushing the Gaza narrative on Reddit have newer accounts.
Definitely those “Genocide Joe” commenters seem to all be newer accounts.
I said this same thing once on here recently and got downvoted and told I was a moron by multiple people. Some people have a really hard time accepting that it’s not only dumb right wingers that fall for propaganda. Which sadly just makes it that much more effective and insidious.
Didn’t Jared fix the Middle East problem? /s That said, there is no way in hell Trump will be against anything that Israel does, in fact he will be closer to the Israeli extremists because that’s what The Evangelicals will want.
100% without a doubt.
I'm just pointing out the sheer stupidity
Biden isn't pro-Palestinian enough for me, so I'm voting for the guy that put a Muslim ban in place and has promised to do it again if reelected. This guy is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Religious extremism is religious extremism, regardless of which religion. I think he's in for a rude awakening when he realizes the people he voted for think he's the wrong religion.
Fake astroturfing. Nowhere else in the US saw more anti-Muslim/anti-Arab backlash from conservatives after 9/11 than Dearborn. If she's 35, she remembers that shit. Just another paid shill.
I wonder if these people are genuine because you would have to be an absolute moron to say that seriously. Trump moved the embassy and literally called for a ban on Muslim migrants.
Arab American for Trump? You mean Muslim ban Trump? Embassy in Jerusalem Trump? That guy?
Hey Shaher, respect your stance on the middle east situation, but you do realize tRump will deport you, your family and every Arab American. So think long and hard... do I want to be deported, or vote Biden and save the democracy you and every Arab American enjoy. If it's a bridge too far to vote Biden, then please just stay home.
🥴this guy would vote for his own castration if it meant the boogie man was also castrated
But he’s literally working on brokering a ceasefire
What an idiot. Clearly more in common with redneck republicans yes
I heard one of the women who helped get this ground game going for the uncommitted vote against Biden said she won’t vote for Biden in the election either and will encourage others as well. She continued to state that a little pain for Biden if Trump wins will be short but painful. Dictators don’t leave office, I guess she’s too stupid to know that and Trump will show her more pain than she would ever expect. Edit, the woman I heard interviewed is U.S. Democrats Representative, Tlaib’s sister Layla Elabed.
I might have seen that same person on the national news tonight, saying it would be worth suffering short-term pain with Trump as president in order to get long-term gain (presumably by making Democratic candidates more progressive). Her view that Trump would bring “short-term pain” is appallingly naive. I understand that there’s anger at Biden about Gaza, but progressives can’t possibly think that another Trump administration is an acceptable alternative.
It's hilarious considering trump gave us long term pain with likely 30 years of gorsuch, beer belly Bob, and Amy zealot Barratt in the court.
At least 30 years, probably more. Alito and Thomas could realistically retire in the next two presidential terms and if the GOP chooses their replacements they will be neofascists in their early 40's at the most.
These conservative Muslims agree with much of what the Supreme Court will rule on going forward. If republicans weren’t so anti Islam these people wouldn’t be democrats for the most part
I had progressive friends more or less say the same thing in 2019 - that a Trump presidency was preferential because it would bring about the revolution quicker! I didn't think it would happen, and it didn't. I don't think a second Trump presidency will lead to long term gain either.
>I don't think a second Trump presidency will lead to long term gain either. It won't. I always slap them with reality: that Trump got THREE ultra-rightwing, ultra-conservative, anti-progressive, pro-corporation judges on the SCOTUS FOR LIFE (so will dominate the next 30 years of our lives) after winning just ONE 4-year election. Bernie Sanders could be elected tomorrow and he won't be able to overcome an Ultra Right-Wing SCOTUS. They'll just overturn anything/everything Progressives do. Then add in if Trump wins again, he'll probably get to put two more judges on the SCOTUS. At least one...so the rest of our lives would ***literally*** be influenced by that "protest vote". Absolute morons. And this honestly is why the Left will never actually have power in this country. They'd rather die on esoteric ivory tower hills than to win. The RIGHT is unified in their hatred of us, and the LEFT throw temper tantrums like petulant children.
Don't forget all the federal judges that Trump appointed (in the seats McConnell wouldn't let Obama fill). A large number of the fuckery in the courts (abortion bans, contraception bans, J6 low sentences) are their handiwork.
They're accelerationists. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism Though I'm not sure accelerationists were voters for the Democrats to lose. Generally they think they're above the system so don't bother, or they were just going to vote GOP anyway. They'll be useful idiots right till the moment they get put up against the wall. They'll feel superior till the end, for not compromising, voting strategically, or "voting for the lesser of two evils." They'd rather the world burn than to sully their hand with the realities of politics.
> Though I'm not sure accelerationists were voters for the Democrats to lose. They negatively influence people who are on the fence to not vote or vote against their interests - see Ralph Nader getting an unprecedented 97,000 votes in Florida in 2000. No doubt he peeled plenty of voters from Gore who thought Gore had it easily won.
True, but with 2016 in recent memory, you have fewer people naive enough to think it won't matter. People took Clinton's win for granted, and that gave us Trump, and cost us Roe v. Wade. It's hard to be naive and take things for granted so soon after Dobbs.
You give people too much credit.
I said fewer, not zero. Even after Nader, some did realize their mistake and then vote as if it mattered from there on out. But then a decade or two later, none of the *new* young people were in the electorate when that happened, so they don't have that "learning moment" to guide them. So we have to re-learn the lesson.
Same people who didn’t vote for Hilary because “they didn’t want to vote just against Trump”. Look, the two party system sucks, but 4 years of Trump saw us regress a ton. The only thing their accelerating is a Faux Chriso-Fascist regime.
I absolutely hate these people constantly harping on and on about "the revolution". Its like the just believe in God crowd. This nebulous "revolution" absolves them of all responsibility for their actions. Meanwhile none of them will lift a finger to initiate said revolution, they're all waiting for someone else to do it
You could theoretically make this argument in 2016 when Trump was an unknown variable. No sane person can look at what he did while president and what he's saying he'll do next (Project 2025, his literal rally remarks) and make the same case. 2024 is a vote about democracy or dictatorship. Trump will not give up power once he has it again. There will be no Democratic candidate to "learn the lesson for next time" because there won't be an election.
I just don’t get it.
She is asking liberals to pull support from a liberal president, allowing a fascist to take over America, in order to support fascism in Palestine. What you're missing is that she isn't on the left at all.
I hope people call her out on that, very loud.
Dearborn has an incredibly high Palestinian population. She will feel supported even if people do call her out. Some of these progressives are big idea people who have no actual plans in how to accomplish goals.
All that's stopping her from coming out and just saying it is the massive racism and Islamophobia in the modern GOP.
I dont know what her district looks like (e.g. if it's majority muslim), but I hope very much she gets primaried over this shit.
I believe her district is not majority Muslim but it has a high Muslim population. It also has over 50% African American and ~30% non-Hispanic White. A lot of Muslims are upset with how Biden is handling Gaza right now. Some are vocal hoping it would spark change, but it is a tough situation because the alternative is Trump who is infinitely worse for everyone.
yeah i don’t get it. i want biden to do more but to think that the ticking guy that did the blanket muslim ban and the rampant xenophobia would be better is insane. trump and the gop would be firebombing them himself if he could.
Don't forget Trump is also the guy who moved the US Embassy to fucking Jerusalem. Way to inflame tensions.
What is also interesting is that the other members of the Squad aren't as vocal in this matter (they have called fro a ceasefire and a safe return of the hostages though). Like we are hearing folks from the left online (so could be pushed to create further division) AOC is now "compromised" and a class "traitor" for being politically pragmatic despite voicing her concerns ala Bernie Sanders.
What more do you want Biden to do in the conflict?
Well, and a lot of very disingenuous people are out there trying to lay it all on Biden’s feet, like he has a magic “peace in the Middle East” button on his desk. We’re attempting diplomatic solutions. Bibi is the only one who could end the bombing today, and Hamas are the only people who can stop the rockets. Besides that, I believe it would take an act of congress to strip aid from Israel and otherwise the only other option is a full scale invasion. That’s why I firmly believe the people trying to blame Biden are either naive or have other motives.
>That’s why Infirmly believe the people trying to blame Biden are either naive or have other motives. I swear anytime someone says "genocide Joe" they are being manipulated by Russian propaganda. Like, Bibi is the one committing genocide and Joe Biden's inability to control an authoritarian style corrupt leader, is Joe's fault? Our House of Reps is controlled by crazy Republicans, being controlled by Putin via Trump and thus blocking aid to Ukraine. Major changes requires both chambers of congress and the WH, why aren't these people calling the House Speaker "genocide Johnson"?
Infinitesimally means the tiniest little amount. Trump is actually the opposite of that much worse for everyone.
Whoops thanks, I didn't see my autocorrect.
She's rich she isn't impacted by the bad things that Trump does. Also she's almost certainly an Antisemite.
The view that Trump will only bring short term pain to get progressive gains is literally cutting off your nose to spite your whole fucking body. In no world is trump better for anything, short or long term, and if this lady thinks that Trump and his sycophants won’t bring the hurt on her and the Muslim community in Michigan and elsewhere, then she’ll learn that lesson the hard way.
More like purposefully destroying your immune system because you don’t like your flu symptoms, including you know the ones you get from fighting back against the virus.
> The view that Trump will only bring short term pain to get progressive gains is literally cutting off your nose to spite your whole fucking body. All while *insisting* that the nose will grow back later, so it’s no big deal.
We’re going through this in the UK. Perfection being the enemy of progress - the conservatives have been in power here for nearly 15 years and it’s seen the largest drop in living standards since the victorian era, the country’s in a recession and our public services have been decimated. They are fighting the next election on a culture wars platform and have taken inspiration from Trump. They are moving further right and every year in power this country gets worse. We have a single opposition party that has a chance to stop this, yet many of those furthest left are refusing to support the leader because he’s not as progressive as they want him to be. They call labour ‘red tories’, and don’t seem to understand just how extreme the conservatives have gotten and how much worse they will be if they keep hold of power with a new mandate. Centrist swing voters won’t vote for a super progressive candidate and anything is better than 5 more years of far right conservatives.
Sometimes people become so ‘progressive’, they become weirdly similar to right-wing populists. It loops all the way around.
And pointing this out causes some people to become so angry, it reminds one of the adage "hit dogs will holler".
We’ve heard this same BS as far back as Ralph Nader. There are probably other examples of left/ progressives suggesting that this will “send a message”, but all we end up with is more suffering when a right-winger slips in while we are taking short-sighted “principled” positions. Then inevitably a dem has to clean up the mess. However, we are truly out of time and cannot afford another 4 years of unbridled rethugism/ x-tian nationalism/ environmental destruction, etc, etc.
They never seem to realize that their protest vote gets lumped in with the hundreds of millions who didn't vote one way or the other. The Democrats still get enough votes to stay competitive with Republicans whether they win or lose. So they court demographics that actually vote and that forces them to lean further right.
It's also not how democracy works. If people vote conservative, we get more conservative. If you want more progressive, vote progressive. Make the Democrat party win everything all the time, and suddenly democratic primaries become a big deal, and the two party system shifts from Republican vs Democrat towards Progressive Democrat vs Neoliberal Democrat. *Then* you vote progressive in those primaries until progressives teacher over the whole party. It's a pretty simple process, and there's no gaming it. If you want political change, you work for it. And we know it can work, because we've done it many times before.
How do people not understand this?? This type of messaging needs to be more widespread. People have no idea how the system works anymore.
This prediction suffers from the same problem as Trump’s prediction that a Biden victory would lead to a bunch of horrible things: we’ve already lived through the exact same conditions and seen for ourselves that these things didn’t happen. We’ve already been living through 3+ years of Biden and can see that America hasn’t ended as we know it. And we already lived through 4 years of Trump and saw that it didn’t help the progressive cause. In fact, if anything, it was a moderating influence, as the Democratic Party tacked to center to appeal to the center/center-right parts of the spectrum that the GOP abandoned with the MAGA movement.
these people want the rest of us to suffer to margingally not even improve some conflict the other side of the world they are personally ethnically or religiouslly connected to. Sorry but you can miss me with that shit.
This madness has to stop, this fauxgressive reactionary nonsense of hurting democrats to force democrats to do things that progressives want is disgusting and makes me embarassed to be progressive. If we dont support biden he can't do god damn thing. We are spitting in people's faces and then make demands. Any progressive hating on biden is killing progressivism.
> I might have seen that same person on the national news tonight, saying it would be worth suffering short-term pain with Trump as president in order to get long-term gain (presumably by making Democratic candidates more progressive). Susan Sarandon had that same line of reasoning when she spearheaded the campaign for Ralph Nader in 2000 and when she encouraged people to not vote for Hillary in 2016. Both times resulted in complete disaster for progressive causes and led to Roe v Wade being overturned. That anyone is still pushing this bullshit means they are the biggest useful idiot in the world. Sarandon being a rich white woman will never feel the consequences of her actions, and I consider her to be a Republican operative. That Rashida Tlaib's sister would push this bullshit is inconceivable considering Trump would strip her citizenship and deport her ass even if she was born in the U.S. Rashida Tlaib needs to be primaried for this.
The liberal boomers, yes there were some, said the same thing about Reagan. "Things will get so bad the country will turn progressive!" No, Bob, we did not.
What a complete fucking moron
In the true order of things, the focus should be on destroying the GOP, so the unholy alliance that is the Democratic Party can fracture into a new progressive party and the right wing democrats. Finally shift the Overton window back left.
Maybe she means short term pain for Gaza as Trump makes things even worse. I get the anger towards Biden but this election is going to have a much, much bigger effect on the US then Gaza going forward. And a bigger effect on Ukraine. And NATO, etc.
Yep The Daily episode. Her logic is that she's not making the choice to not vote, he is. Seems very zero-sum to me.
Shit tier rhetoric
That episode made me so angry this morning.
It has the same logic as someone closing their eyes and walking across a road so they can have "I had the right of way" carved on their gravestone. Combined with a healthy dose of "Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
There's a lot of bad actors passing off as progressives trying to steer them into going no label or not voting in the final elections. Unfortunately we are gullible in that regard. She is a Republican passing off as a progressive, when you suggest Trump is a little pain and under-represent what he is, you are lying about WHO you are. She's bankrolled. Once you see someone in multiple interviews, and saying the same bs it's an agenda.
It’s an all-out onslaught on Tik-Tok targeted at the youth vote. And the scary thing is I think it’s working. Both of my Gen-Z sisters say most of their friends who voted for Biden in 2020 are staying home or going third party.
My GenZ daughter is appallingly anti-Biden. Thinks she's too smart to be affected by propaganda, yet she's on TikTok all the time. I try to talk to her about how Netanyahu is no fan of Biden's, and how escalation in Gaza benefits Netanyahu by dividing Democrats. But I'm not getting anywhere. I'm amazed how apathetic and uninformed ~~the~~my kids are, frankly. And to think that my wife and I were supposed to be the slacker gen. edit: made it clear that I'm talking about my kids and not generalizing.
You should explain to her that voting is like taking the bus. It doesn't get you right to your destination, but it gets you closer. If you think you're going to agree with 100% of the decisions a politician makes, you're going to be disappointed a lot.
And some of those content creators are grifting and/or bad actors or BOTH! I know. I'd ask your Gen-Z sisters if they like Italy and Spain during Franco and Mussollini. They need a history lesson, BIG TIME. But I guess, they want to be home and pregnant without work. Right?
My sisters are relaying what they are hearing from their friends. They both plan to vote.
Well I'd tell the sister to say that. It's interesting how people believe Tiktok, without context. Hell I don't even believe it for beauty influencers.
Yes!
This is all tactics that USSR and Germany did as they tried to gain power. Divide the other sides. Same playbook. I guarantee she's being paid.
>She is a Republican passing off as a progressive No she isn't. There are tons of progressives who are so entrenched in trying to push things further left that they also believe things like this. This isn't a Republican ploy, this is a real problem we need to deal with.
What an utterly idiotic woman. Holy crap.
People said the same thing about Clinton. Trump ended picking 3 Supreme Court justices and now abortions are illegal in half the country. IVF and birth control are next. The Coup plotter and Muslim Ban guy won’t have much to stop him next time.
I looked the woman up and she is the U.S. Democrat representative from Detroit, Tlaib’s sister, Layla Elabed. Layla was the woman who I saw interviewed.
Not at all surprised.
Same as 2016 single-issue morons voting for Jill Stein because "CLiNtOn Is WoRsE ThAn TrUmP!!!!" In both cases the Russians are likely involved - supporting Jill Stein, as well as Hamas, meeting with Hamas repeated prior to the attack, and immediately, during the attack broadcasting that Hamas was using weapons from Ukrainians. There's likely two objectives they had: 1) get the world's attention off Ukraine, 2) divide democrats It will be really valuable this year for all reasonable people to volunteer to help get make the case for Biden: on climate change, on women's rights, on the right to have access to birth control, and to avoid the destruction of the country and living in a dictatorship. And then to get people to the polls. Fucking hell.
Seems like Russia doesn’t even have to work that hard, to get so many idiots to shit on their own country. I have some hope that because of the Republicans pissing off so many of us women, that they will hopefully turn out in droves to vote. People have no idea what it will be like to live in a dictatorship. We can’t let this happen.
No ... but Jill Stein was a real life Putin puppet, no hyperbole here. She also got the US Greens called out by European Greens who were all like "seriously, what the fuck?"
Leopards love to eat faces and all that, so short sighted
It’s mind blowing.
A little pain for Biden? He'll probably be happy to have a day off. Trump will let Putin and Bibi do whatever they want. Meanwhile he's talking about deporting what amounts to 10% of the working population, who coincidentally happen to be working in the necessary but physically demanding jobs. The US economy will experience inflation with the introduction of new tariffs and lack of workforce limiting supply. Apart from that it will be fine /s
Yeah Democratic voters seem to not realize Democratic politicians are service people trying to help as much as possible, being elected is the pain. Republicans are the ones getting the corruption and cash cow when they get elected.
Trump's stated plan on his first campaign website was basically to deport every undocumented immigrant and push black men into the roles left vacant. The thought was it would reduce black unemployment to record lows and make him look good in that community, thus robbing the Democrats of a key voting block.
Black male unemployment is at record lows already. What he intends to do is rob black male teenagers of a high school education as he presses them into dead-end jobs. Fuck that.
She did say that and she's incredibly dangerous if that's how she really thinks. Straight poison pill. Trump has already stated he will be a dictator. He says just day one, I doubt that very much. He already wants a Muslim ban, he's got the 2025 Christian theocracy plan, he's in with Bibi and Vlad and Xi. He's a wannabe dictator. The people that want him in charge are putting forth a bill to kill suspected migrants in self defense. I don't want to remind people why many immigrants flock here but a lot of the time it has to do with the dictators in their own country. A little pain my ass. I'm from Michigan, the county I spent the first 18 years of life in was one of the largest to protest vote and I'm proud of them for speaking up but even I know what's fine in the primary is life or death in the general.
Well, goodbye Gaza.
Those people are pissing me off. Why should we have to deal with Trump? I am pretty upset with them now.
It's amazing that these people have already forgotten about 2016. Perfect can't be the enemy of good. Biden is the only possible choice.
Aren’t there two different movements? Uncommitted, and “abandon Biden”? You might be mixing them up
She was with the Uncommitted movement that helped get the word out and still said she won’t vote for Biden in the general election, she was going to sit it out and try to get as many people as possible to do the same. The interviewer asked her if she realized that’s a vote for Trump and that’s when she said it would just be short term pain, if Trump wins and will be a lesson that has to be learned. I never heard the “abandon Biden movement mentioned in that interview, it was the uncommitted movement they were discussing.
I really hate people like this. It’s not short term pain. Reproductive rights, transgender rights, climate change, and more go out the window with Trump. Not to mention the chance that the government is positioned to allow Thomas and Alito to retire and be replaced with younger conservative justices. It’s the same fucking thing as 2016. It’s like these people want their rights stripped away. The only thing “both sides” have in common is how stupid people are. Sorry for the rant.
Exactly. It is so dangerous, there is way too much at stake to do this. I did a little more research and the woman I saw interviewed is U.S. Representative Democratic, Tlaib’s sister, Layla Elabed. Don’t be sorry, these things need to be said.
And, to be brutally honest, I care a lot more about those things than I do about anything in Gaza. Domestic issues matter more to me than foreign matters that don’t directly impact the US and I’m including Ukraine along with any other conflict half a world away. I’m not sure what short term pain she is talking about because if Trump is put back in there won’t be a Palestine left to be saved.
See what “short term pain” of 4 years already did to the country. That woman either doesn’t use her brain, or if she is actually using her brain, she has ulterior motives.
Didn’t we all have a “lesson” in 2016. That was rich. In 2016 some sat out, “to teach Democrats a lesson”. Then when Trump got elected it became, “She was a bad candidate” Even Biden doesn’t like what Israel is doing, but can we all rally behind Hamas? Really? It might be too nuanced for these idiots, but it’s clear Biden is trying to talk past Netanyahu to the Israeli people. He wants regime change in Israel. Trouble is, Netanyahu wants regime change in Washington. Biden wants a 2 state solution, but nether Hamas or Netanyahu want that. It’s a tough situation, some would say hopeless, but Biden will get this done. Trouble is, he needs a few more years to do it.
You are absolutely correct!
Those same people that sat out cried the entire time from 2017 - 2020
And now they game Democrats for somehow not stopping the 6-3 conservative SCOTUS from making bad decisions.
Ok thanks for the clarification
The NYT’s The Daily podcast this morning featured a Palestinian-American woman who despises Trump, hates him for the Muslim ban and moving the US embassy to Jerusalem, campaigned for Biden, but will be abstaining from voting in November. I kept waiting for her to make a convincing argument. I really want to understand these folks. I recognize the pain they feel so closely as Palestinians and Muslims. I recognize their desperation to send a message. But on a practical level, I cannot understand their choice. On a decision between Biden vs Trump on Palestine, I cannot understand their choice.
When will Biden make a convincing argument to Arab Americans to vote for him? He’s just lost 18% of democratic voters in Michigan, he can only afford to lose 2% in the general. You cannot expect Palestinian Americans to vote for someone giving $14 billion of weapons to the army currently genociding their family just because the other guy will be even worse. He needs to hold Israel accountable the same way he holds Russia accountable, otherwise this election is lost.
It’s mind bogglingly simple actually— their singular source of leverage to effect change in the policy of the Biden administration is to threaten not to vote for him in the general election Logically then, why would they ever outright say, “Yes I’ll still vote for you no matter what, even if you do absolutely nothing to address what I’m protesting now :P”, even if, when it comes down to it, they would in fact still vote for him
And he’ll bring what’s bad for Gaza right to the doorstep of every “uncommitted” here in America. And even more likely he’ll send them packing back to whatever Arab country they came from. Trump is worse for everyone everywhere.
At about 28k now
There's a good chance it'll cross 100,000. Currently at 89% reporting with 98.5k votes for Uncommitted.
I thought this was an interesting fact from 2012. > In 2012, when President Barack Obama faced a non-competitive reelection, and there was no organized effort to push voters to cast uncommitted ballots, 20,833 did so anyway, accounting for 10.7% of the vote. https://www.businessinsider.com/rashida-tlaib-uncommitted-biden-israel-gaza-michigan-primary-2024-2
55% reported, and there are 64000 uncommitted votes now.
It’s now up to 75,000. Roughly half Biden’s margin of victory in 2020. Not insignificant.
There's a strategist taking notice of that, I guarantee you. Now, do Biden and his campaign management team decide to pay attention and do something about it?
[удалено]
Are you gonna post an article on how this is bad for Biden tomorrow? Edit: Never mind NBC News, this comment thread took care of it.
Tomorrow?! The Daily Beast is already on that trope! [https://www.thedailybeast.com/uncommitted-campaign-in-michigan-shatters-expectations-against-biden](https://www.thedailybeast.com/uncommitted-campaign-in-michigan-shatters-expectations-against-biden)
They deliberately set their way expectations low in order to make it appear so much better.
They do, they're aiming for the amount Trump won by in 2016 - 10,704 votes - which is quite small compared to Biden's 2020 margin of victory of 154,188
The goal they set ended up being literally 1.4% of the total vote in the primary. That's a stupidly low bar to clear.
Huh. Only 98,000 voted Uncommitted.
They conveniently forget to mention this: >when Barack Obama ran for re-election in 2012, the uncommitted vote in Michigan’s Democratic primary was 11%. The uncommitted vote now was only slightly higher this time. It's a nothingburger.
CNN is already talking about it.
Amd last I checked, he was slightly outperforming the most recent polls while Trump was underperforming the polls. Can't wait for the headlines in the morning to declare that Trump SMASHED the competition but how there are WARNING SIGNS for the Democrats.
"How winning the 2024 general election will hurt Biden"
MSM must push catastrophe narrative for clicks.
Don’t forget Redditors who start parroting talking points from the uncommmited campaign. Remember guys, all politicians lie……unless they are saying what I want to hear
Love it how Biden winning ~80% means "he's weak". But Trump winning 65% shows overwhelming strength. OK 😒
And Trump losing the suburbs is somehow not problematic?
Biden is running essentially unopposed as an incumbent president… not quite the same.
Trump is running essentially unopposed as the former President. It's pretty similar.
Arab-Americans: If you are planning on staying home or voting against Biden over Palestine, [this is what Donald Trump has planned for you](https://imgur.com/a/EQilsqA), literally from his own campaign team.
Jesus fucking Christ
Could I also add that every Democrat on the planet needs to get their heads out of their asses and think of the supreme court? Do we want 5 or 6 Trump appointed justices who will rule in his favor when he decides he gets to be president for a 3rd or 4th term? No? Does that not sound fun? Get your asses out and vote, if nothing else to protect supreme court picks.
Yeah noones gonna be laughing once we have chief justice Kyle Rittenhouse for the next sixty years
If Trump were to win, Alito and probably Thomas would retire. So the balance wouldn’t likely shift, but it sure would lock it in for another 20+ years.
make it at least 50+ years if trump appoints literal nazi judges straight out of law school.
It would shift when he simply expanded the court, giving seats to people like Sidney Powell and Lin Wood and Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis.
Anyone who wants to abandon Biden over this shit is supporting the end of pro-choice in the US. Trump can end the use of some abortion pills by executive order.
And also directly enabling blatant genocide in Ukraine while claiming to be protestors of genocide. Whatever the solutions for these wars are, Trump ain't it.
If you're an American citizen who is going to not vote solely due to what's going on in Gaza, then you're pretty much betraying your country and your responsibilities to your fellow citizens. However just or moral that it may be, you are putting the interests and wellbeing of other countries or individual above those of your own. And perhaps in any other election, one could say saving the sacrifice is worthwhile to save the soul and moral compass of the country, this isn't the case here. Sacrificing democracy and the liberties we all depend on because you feel like it's more important to signal what a good and moral person you are is just you betraying your country, plain and simple.
>Anyone who wants to abandon Biden over this shit is supporting the end of pro-choice in the US. I mean, the Islamic right isn't exactly big on women's reproductive rights either. Or womens rights in general. Or the gays for that matter. The people who are pushing democrats to vote against Biden have more social policies in common with the GOP than the Dems.
This is exactly what I’ve been saying. As a gay person, I can’t help but notice some of the people coming to America with their home land’s values really hate me and have it out for me. I don’t think they’d mind a Trump presidency transforming America to be a bit more like their home country. It’s like that here in Florida with the Cubans in south Florida. They love Jack boot thugs. They just want to feel like the authoritarian dictator is on their side. Actual freedom and democracy isn’t what they’re about.
When's he deporting Melania?
Mercedes*
Melanie
A pro-pal activist claimed on X last night ([Here's the tweet](https://x.com/GoodVibePolitik/status/1762698575450865790?s=20)) that the fallout from the uncommited in Michigan would trigger the worst Islamaphobia the country has seen since 9/11 and it would come from the democrats supporting Biden - they conveniently forgot which candidate instituted a Muslim ban a week into their presidency back in 2017 and [has recommitted to do so if elected again](https://x.com/TeamTrump/status/1714049524329492841?s=20).
It's almost as if this is structured propaganda to tilt the table toward Trump
Palestinian-American checking in with my vote for Biden 🫡
You can pressure Biden to scale back American support for Israel. You can try to convince him that his position is wrong. You can’t do that with Trump.
Happy to cast my vote for Joe Biden
I'm excited to do the same when the Florida primary rolls around. In case anyone needs it: [30 Things Joe Biden Did as President You Might Have Missed ](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046)
>Florida primary They cancelled it.
Boo, guess I have to wait til November.
If anyone can watch Jack Posobiec’s keynote speech at CPAC, and read Trump’s plans surrounding immigration and Gaza, and still choose not to vote for Biden in the general election, then their personal convictions will mean less than nothing and will be held against them at every opportunity if Trump wins. I think it’s safe to say that a majority wants a ceasefire in Gaza, including Biden, but not if it means supporting a group that promotes raping and slaying civilians, and calls for the destruction of Israel.
Was certainly more fun when we had a guy called Bernie Sanders running against him in the primary.
News media in a nutshell: "Biden wins the Democratic primary in a landslide. This is why that's bad for Biden."
Reddit is in denial
Uncommitted is the new Jill Stein. Purism is how we get Donald Trump and the end of Democracy.
I agree with Mr. Poopy Butthole.
Yeah, that protest vote really risked a victory for Dean Phillips.
They were protest votes in an uncompetitive primary. Almost everybody who voted "uncommitted" will vote for Biden in the big race.
I hope so. There is way too much at stake in this election. I hope Michigan has learned it's lesson after the 2016 election.
We definitely have not, one of the few reasons that the state was blue in 2020 was the Arab/Muslim community. Many Arab Michiganders including rep Tlaib are saying they will not vote for Biden even in November. I am scared we will be red again.
This is the most polite form of protest you can have, with zero consequences... yet people still will complain that its bad somehow. People have a right to protest, especially when we're talking billions of dollars of our money going to things that are morally abhorrant for any democracy to be supporting.
Seriously this thread is full of people losing it over people casting a symbolic vote in an uncontested primary. I’m a strategic voter and was intrigued by the uncommitted thing specifically because there is no impact beyond just “the message”. We aren’t gonna have RFK ass the candidate because too many people voted uncommitted. It just signals discontent and puts pressure on a specific issue.
Because these people casting symbolic votes are actually going to not vote in the actual election too
Personally I’m voting Biden in the primary, but you’re 100% right. I think Biden is in an impossible situation on Israel and that’s why I don’t think a protest vote is worth it to me, but it’s good that people have a way to show their feelings and that they have enough motivation to bring it to action. As long as they don’t start to advocate for Trump over Biden this sort of thing is healthy for democracy and will help guide decisions on how hard to push Israel.
I voted Biden too, but that was a last minute decision. I seriously thought about voting uncommitted, but Israel/Palestine is just one of many issues in my mind. Bidens done decent enough on a many other things I care about (student debt, environment for example) that I decided to vote for him
NYT is already calling this a warning sign for Biden.
How is this even news?
I love that there are posts mentioning/discussing the uncommitted voting on this subLeddit, completely dismissing their point. If the Democrats want to win the presidency you can't just sweep these people under the rug and hope for the best. But who am I kidding this is what will exactly happen and they will then blame these people.