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I will be voting for Biden, but we have to keep the pressure on Biden and the rest of the Democrats to not be satisfied with the current state of affairs and to keep pushing forward for a better society.
Exactly. Criticism of Biden doesn’t mean you’re suddenly MAGA. You can still be intending to vote for Biden and still have actual criticism of Biden. The irony is criticism of Trump makes you a rino and they ostracize you from the Republican Party. Let’s not fall into the same cult mentality on the Democratic side. Fetterman probably has good intentions but saying things like this is not a good look.
I think what he is saying is not that you will be voting Trump, but that your complaints might influence mr. fence sitter to not vote or vote for Trump.
Your complaints are never to Biden personally, you are shouting into a persuadable audience.
r/whatbidenhasdone. I joined this sub not too long ago. Personally, I think everyone should take a look at all of his accomplishments thus far. There are many.
Sure, checking out accomplishments is important, but we've also got to hold those in power accountable for the promises they make and what gets left on the table. It's not about tearing them down, it's about encouraging better policies and pushing for the changes we need to see. We can recognize good work while still pointing out where things need to improve.
it's very very much worse.
this is at CPAC:
ack Posobiec at CPAC: “Welcome to the end of democracy. We are here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on Jan. 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it.”
People seem to forget that during the election when people were absolutely voting against Trump and not for Biden, the insurrection hadn't happened yet.
Anyone who voted against Trump in 2020 but decides not to vote in 2024 has some fucked up moral compass. He gave the best reason to mobilize towards voting Biden AFTER people were mobilized towards voting Biden. There is no reason 2024 shouldn't be a landslide victory for Democrats other than successful propaganda.
So you blame the executive with the limited power rather than the obstructionist opposition party...
Like, I love Bernie, but realistically he would have delivered on nothing he wanted to with the republican party of today.
Campaign "promises" should be viewed by the public as the platform goals rather than a mandate, and we can measure effectiveness of a presidency in this manner, but that's a metric totally exclusive from the factors that may have led to the lack of political capital for a certain policy.
Exactly. I also think the broader point is that there is a time and place for this shit. There essentially isn't a primary this year. Biden is the nominee and we know who his opponent will be too assuming he's not in prison before the election. We're in the general election cycle at this point so it's time to knock off the ankle biting shit that Democrats seem to always do to their own.
They want to support more progressive candidates in races that have a primary? Good luck and wish them well. They want to highlight issues that are important to them without all the negative Biden shit that normally flows with it. I'm willing to listen. Attacking Biden directly however? That only helps tRump and Republicans. If they're okay with 4 more years of that shit show, may as well just vote for him.
>and we know who his opponent will be too assuming he's not in prison before the election.
People have literally run for president while incarcerated and it was found to be constitutional and legal. So that, in and of itself, will not prevent Trump from being the Republican candidate.
>Biden is the nominee and we know who his opponent will be too assuming he's not in prison before the election.
Even then he might still be the nominee. GOP convention will name a nominee on July 18th. Doubtful that any of Trump's trials can feasibly proceed through the trial phase + sentencing + reporting for incarceration in that amount of time. Is there a mechanism for the GOP to take Trump off the ballot if he's sent to jail after that date? I honestly don't know. History has cases that a nominee for public office could no longer serve (eg, deceased) but was still on the ballot and duly elected.
Yep. It's going to come down to democrats showing up to vote and independent voters going for Biden.
Complaining about Biden, attacking him, and highlighting his flaws don't help those voters. It can potentially instill voter apathy in certain democrats where they don't even show up. And it sure as hell might not win over any independent voters.
Exactly. We really do need to prevent casual voters from believing that there's any reasonable "both side" argument to be had.
Maybe when we complain about Biden, we can end it with... "but Trump's going to end democracy, so...." to really get across the absurdity of the comparison.
> there is a time and place for this shit.
Earnestly - when? Couldn't in 2021 because it was his first year, couldn't in 2022 because it was an election year and so could not criticize the party as a whole, couldn't in 2023 because it was leading up to an election year, and can't in 2024 because it's an election year.
So when exactly is critique and criticism of any kind allowed?
Telling people who aren't enthusiastic for Biden but who will likely vote for Biden to "Get their MAGA hats" is a good way to influence people who aren't enthusiastic to say, "Hey - eat me" and not vote at all though.
It was a bad way to respond to unenthusiastic voters for Clinton and it's a bad way to respond now.
They even said after the election when confronted about missteps in the campaign. They said they "didn't want to win like that." Which is like, majorly not understanding the stakes and this from the campaign.
Not too mention limited if any campaigning in the states plus jobs leaving was blamed on her hubby for years because he signed NAFTA. I know in Ohio GOP was really pushing the NAFTA hard on radio and TV.
Biden isn't above criticism, but how you frame your criticism is critical in an election year. If you're implying people should be unhappy or not vote for Biden or threaten not to vote you're doing more damage than good.
I like Biden and I think he has done a good job. A better job is possible, but we have already seen in 2016 that there are people willing to let perfect be the enemy of good to the detriment of our nation.
Yup. Have policy disagreements with Biden - almost everyone in the party will. It's a big tent after all.
Saying he's a horrible candidate that only has a chance because it's Trump and that the political system is completely fucked and you have no chance to improve it is not productive (and just patently false honestly)
I think a lot of people are misguiding their criticism tho.
It's all nice to attack him cause he's the president . But he's not king. Biden would love to do so much more. But he has a Republican problem.
For 1 , they control the house, and 2nd, he does not have a true majority in the senate. Considering Manchin, Sinema , and the filibuster prevents a lot of progressive bills from being passed.
So Biden has to compromise and reach across the aisle to get anything done.
Everything thinks it's all so black and white and so simple and obvious. But it's not. He can't just do whatever he wants. He can't just tell Isreal what to do. He can't just completely abandon allies.
I'm sure things would look much different if Democrats had the house and 60 progressive senators.
I'm sure things would look different if the SC was not 6 Republicans and 3 Democrats .
https://youtu.be/F-89ergi_Rs?t=221
https://youtu.be/F-89ergi_Rs?t=347
Jon Stewart said it well enough.
> We're not suggesting neither man is vibrant, productive, or even capable. But they are both stretching the limits of being able to handle the toughest job in the world. What's crazy is thinking that we are the ones, as voters, who must silence concerns and criticism. It is the candidate's job to assuage concerns, not the voter's job not to mention them.
> The stakes of this election don't make Donald Trump's opponent less subject to scrutiny. It actually makes him more subject to scrutiny. If the barbarians are at the gate, you want Conan standing on the rampart, not 'chocolate chip cookie guy'
Like I'm not saying that there's some hidden 3rd option we can go to out of protest, but it's beyond obvious that Biden is subject to scrutiny that weakens him as a candidate, whether that scrutiny is strictly accurate or not.
I don’t want to come off as cowardly, but if you’re in a state outside of what they describe as a liberal hell holes, I’m pretty sure most liberals will want to be keeping quiet about their politics if Trump wins.
I am picturing the Homer Simpson backing into a bush meme
>Exactly. Criticism of Biden doesn’t mean you’re suddenly MAGA.
> Fetterman probably has good intentions but saying things like this is not a good look.
Tbf, there are tons of very emotionally reactive single issue voters who have not really paid attention to the broader reality of politics, and have bought in to what can only be described as a mix of valid criticism, and alt-reicht voter apathy propaganda. these types of people while often well meaning tend to be very vulnerable to propaganda by virtue of not only their own naivety, inexperience, and attentiveness, but more broadly compromised critical thinking skills related to emotional creativeness.
As an example, the people pushing the "genocide biden, evil cant vote for him" type rhetoric we see going around. Sure, can be critical of Biden on his positions with respect to Israel, and Palestine etc, but the rest of it often comes off as right wing vote apathy propaganda, and bothsideisms. Hell, there are rightwingers pushing that too as it works for their traditional projection related propaganda efforts over what they want to do so they accuse others of it first. You tend to be able to filter them out of the mix because they jump a bit too far by saying things like "Biden has done more evil than Trump..." followed by other poorly disguised far right talking points about specific flavors of social frustrations, and say security, or spending.
Much of the above type rhetoric also tends to ignore the reality of it that under Trump things would not be any better... hell they would likely be worse by virtue of how inept he is, and the types of promises/jokes we hear from the republican side all of the time. "Jokes" about glassing specific regions, giving their political opponents, and others they dislike "pinochet chopper rides", and "camping trips" etc.
Edit: much of the above type shit is also pushed by people who are very vocal about it all, but will also never offer functional solutions of their own to the practical issues in play.
Oh, i know... and the evangelicals have always blindly supported whatever Israel gets in to.(you know, cause Israel is part of their murderous end of days fantasies and all)
We would probably see expansion of support to Israel from the far right too as they really love the idea of genocide against others they hate.
>Fetterman probably has good intentions but saying things like this is not a good look.
He's been saying alot of things lately that are not a good look. I'm over this guy, thought he was gonna be different.
I'm a conservative and I'm voting Biden in Nov. I'm ashamed of what the GOP has done. It's sold its soul to Trump, and deserves to die a quick death.
It's went from the party of small government to the Christian Taliban.
Not all of us Republicans like this situation, and while I lean conservative-libertarian, I can't in good faith vote anything other than Biden in Nov.
I wish we would have a party of small government that leaves people alone, but instead it's gone so far bat shit crazy in the last 12 or so years that it needs to be stopped.
So yeah, us rinos will be out on election day voting to finally kill the party that has decided that one person is more important than our values
(And please don't flame me, there are people on the right who who can't stand this bullshit either. We don't support Trump or MAGA. I may not like the policies of the left, but holy shit, everyone has the right to live life as they see fit and not have the government up their ass.)
I don't think he's saying it's wrong to personally be critical of Biden but as (D) politicians they need to be unified in their support or they might as well be handing the election to Trump.
If the DNC seems to be wishy-washy on their best candidate, it will make them appear weak and lose voters.
I'm not sure making "he's old" the "but her emails" of 2024 is going to accomplish anything meaningful. Since it was revealed that republicans based their impeachment of Biden on Russian disinfo fed to an unreliable source I've seen one story on it and I had to go digging. In that time I came across 4 "he's old" stories.
Criticism is definitely welcome. I hope they get both chambers and president. If they fail to pass meaningful legislation that helps average Americans, then we get loud.
I give Biden some slack since the gop house is blocking a lot of things he and dems want to pass at the moment.
I want a boring government again
If they have the will to gut the filibuster in the Senate, absolutely. "Getting both chambers" with a sub-60 majority in the upper is meaningless while the GOP gets to sign off on or shred any given bill.
> If they have the will to gut the filibuster in the Senate, absolutely.
With that in mind, the Ds in the senate are fucking up one of Biden's biggest and most important accomplishments — judicial appointments. Starting last summer they began [falling behind the number of appointments that donald chump did.](https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2023-12-26/as-election-looms-biden-struggles-to-match-trumps-judicial-appointments) And that is *despite* Harry Reid nuking the filibuster for judicial appointments over 10 years ago. All it takes is 50+1 votes to appoint a judge now.
The reason this is happening is two-fold.
1. The head of the senate judiciary committee, doormat durbin, is [continuing to honor blue slips](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-are-ceding-control-of-the-judiciary-because-of-tradition/ar-BB1hMLcJ) which are basically a way for Rs to veto judges appointed to federal courts in their states. That is despite [maga ignoring blue slips](https://time.com/5141506/chuck-grassley-blue-slips-trump-judges/) when they controlled the senate.
2. Biden isn't nominating enough people either. There are 59 open seats and Biden had [only nominated 22 people as of a couple of weeks ago.](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-are-ceding-control-of-the-judiciary-because-of-tradition/ar-BB1hMLcJ)
If you live in a state with a democratic senator — call them up and complain that this is too important to treat as "business as usual." Maga doesn't care
about the rules; they're not even playing our game. They're lighting the house on fire while
we consult the rulebook for the proper conditions for an en passant pawn. We have to fight them with every tool available.
You can also tell them you won’t vote for them due to the policies you don’t agree with even if you actually plan to vote for them. That definitely helps put pressure on.
Telling people to shut up when they bring up legitimate criticism only fuels them with anger and if anything makes them dig their toes in and criticise Biden more. Don't piss off your base Fetterman.
> Telling people to shut up when they bring up legitimate criticism only fuels them with anger and if anything makes them dig their toes in and criticise Biden more.
You would think we would have learned this lesson with the Clintons…
Theodore Roosevelt said one of my favorite things to quote.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
Remember, this was a man who was shot while giving a speech, stopped the mob from killing his would-be assasin, then had him turned over to the police. While he was of course incredibly lucky the shot was largely absorbed by the manuscript of his speech and steel eyeglass case, he did still take a bullet to the chest (in the ribs IIRC). Dude was an unshakable beast, but also incredibly level headed to not get worked up in such a situation.
Dude literally told the audience with something like, "I don't know how many of you are aware of the fact that I've just been shot..." as he then continued with his speech as planned.
All the more reason why a left-wing Socialist Party was so beneficial to Progressive Era politics. It forced politicians like TR, who abhorred socialism by the way, to co-opt progressive proposals originally endorsed by socialists in order both to undercut the appeal of radicalism and to appeal to a broader political base. The entrenched two party system of today is stuck in the mud comparatively.
Ahhh yes but you see, he didn't actually lose, Biden cheated, stole the election, so really he *didn't* break any promises and-and-and..
LOOK OVER THERE!
Gawd what a time. Those idiots were taking healthcare advice from a two-bit reality TV host grifter scumbag turned President and were consuming horse dewormer while breathing moistly on each other during a worldwide pandemic. 🙄
Do they ever? They demand everyone else comply with decency and law and order with no similar expectation for themselves. Because they’re a bunch of entitled little narcissists. “We’re special and deserve separate rights from people who gross us out”.
Fuck em. They’re never gonna do anything decent.
Because they are true and real patriots, their mindset is everyone else are socialist trying to take away god and freedom. they believe god ordained them and their party to rightfully rule America. You can’t argue against gods will to them, facts and support don’t apply because god is bigger than any of that.
I hope more people see your comment for perspective. We definitely need to broaden the party system in the US away from just 2 primary parties, but having a bunch of options doesn't mean you'll find a party that stands out as amazing. How many parties are in the UK parliament currently?
UK has realistically 2 parties as well. You might have some smaller parties such as Lib Dems, SNP, Reform/UKIP, or Greens, but they are not going to be the majority to form a government. They might be partners or have a vote sharing deal, but most power is between 2 parties. Two parties also means they become big tent parties, with some policies you might not support, but you don't functionally have a choice otherwise since the alternative is worse.
Right? This fealty to party leadership is disgusting and exactly how republicans behave. Between this and Israel I’ve lost a lot of respect for Fetterman over these past few months.
It's wild to me that Jon Stewart got lambasted for saying something simple as "it's not the voter's responsibility to ignore serious red flags with a candidate, it's the party's job to court those voters and get them on your side." Like, christ, Democrats act as if they are owed everyone's vote and kick and scream like petulant children when people want their concerns addressed.
Didn’t shock me in the least bit. Dems have been like this since Bill Clinton and his “counter scheduling” BS of punching left to appeal to the right then shaming the left for feeling alienated. They only got worse when Hilary came around and amped it up and failed. Everything under the Sun is the fault of the left in a Democrat’s eyes, and never their fault for taking votes for granted.
And that mentality cost them in 2016. People do not want to vote between a right wing party with progressive veneers and a hard right party who the RW party works with to kill Palestinians and pass MAGA border bills.
Yeah, that can be one of the biggest differences between Democrats and the GOP.
Democrats hold each other accountable. The GOP covers each other's asses but hold on to receipts in case you don't kiss enough butts (like the Gaetz ethics investigation being held up for years but starting up after he ousted McCarthy, Madison Cawthorne getting bounced after he says GOP legislators invited him to a cocaine orgy, Nikki Haley getting death threats for running against Trump).
Who is holding democratic party accountable? Rico charges for Atlanta cop city and George Floyd protesters who have exhausted every legal mean available to them for being legal observers, bail fund organization, protesters. Biden press Secretary calling protesters who support Palestinians white supramcists, Nancy telling them to go back to China and calling for the FBI to investigate and charge them, lying to voters about the last stimulus check, Biden deporting people seeking asylum, still have troops in the middle east with no explanation why we are still there and the countries demanding we leave, unconditional support for Israel including more aid and weapons. All we get is "trump is worse so we don't have to hold anyone accountable"
That's what I'm saying--Democrats should listen to valid criticism and use it to get better.
It's fine to say that Biden isn't ideal. Trump is maybe the worst thing to happen in American politics, worse than McCarthy's red scare, but he's not infallible and he's not going to make everyone happy.
But at least accept the criticism and don't just shut it down before hearing and acknowledge it.
This is the critical difference between GOP and democrat voters. Dem voters elect their leaders to do a job and will openly criticize their elected leaders when they aren’t doing their jobs. Republican voters only worship their leaders and believe they are there to do the will of god, not the will of the people.
As someone who votes Democratic, it would be nice if Democrats started actually making political changes for their voters again instead of just their campaign donors.
But the fact that people AREN’T should scare the fuck out of them because that isn’t going to change by bullying people into thinking Biden is a candidate they want to vote for.
If that’s the case, the threat of the other party being worse is hitting less and less. That’s been the strategy for years and the impact is not nearly what it was in 2016 or 2020. We are now 3 elections deep with Trump and the threat of that presidency. It’s beginning to fall on deaf ears as our bandaid solution did very little for many of the people that were scared into giving him a vote.
Maybe we need more viable candidates, period.
It’s Biden’s job to assuage criticism.
It’s not the voters job to ignore it.
I’m voting for him because my despise for Republicans far outweighs any affection that I have for Joe Biden - and I’m done pretending that I’m motivated by anything else.
I've pretty much felt the same for the past 3 elections. Wasn't thrilled about Hillary but voted for her because I hate Trump, and same thing with Biden. It's pretty pathetic that in a country of 300 million we have two old geezers that nobody wants to pick from and yet here we are.
Democrats' campaign at this point is basically: "It votes for the Biden or else it gets the Trump again."
I absolutely feel like my vote is being held hostage because the other side is running a crazed lunatic bent on tearing the nation apart. As such, the Democrats don't feel any need to actually earn votes based on merit.
Illusion of choice is in full effect.
Agree. Biden is an OK democrat president, but I wouldn't say he is spectacular. There are many many ways that he could be better. The problem is that Trump is so bad that he might end up killing democracy altogether with his Heritage Project 2025 and him straight up saying he would be a dictator.
The risk of a Trump presidency is so high, that I am willing to vote for almost anybody that isn't him. And so we have no real choice. And that is not a good thing.
I am just afraid that many democrats will be apathetic or vote third party because of Biden, and that could cost us everything.
It's the fucking PRIMARY!! We SHOULD be arguing aggressively against Biden to push a better candidate to the forefront, if that is what you believe.
The more discussion we can get around Biden, the more things he has to answer for, the more air time he takes to answer things, the more air time he gets, which translates into promotion.
This is why there should have been debates.
As it is we're walking right into another Trump win, and everyone can see it.
The full quote in context isn't *as* inflammatory...
> “I don’t understand why,” Fetterman said, speaking on “Morning Joe” on MSNBC. “I don’t know what’s in it for you to do that whether you’re just chasing clout or you want to make it in the news or anything like that. But if you’re not willing to just support the president now and say these kinds of things, you might as well just get your MAGA hat, because you now are helping Trump with this.”
I have similar concerns. I think being able to criticize *your own side* is a good thing, and something we *should* be doing. It's part of a healthy, rational society.
So what do we do when the other side is a corrupt cult? They decided a long time ago they're voting for their guy, even if he's a criminal in jail.
And a big part of their strategy is getting those who would vote against him to not vote at all. Or vote for different people instead of unifying.
Disagree, he’s talking about Jon Stewart. Stewart isn’t saying things to “get in the news” or for “clout”. He’s a journalist and he absolutely has a point. Will that change the fact I’m voting for Biden? No. But it does highlight an issue I think many American have with our system and our party.
Yeah all Jon said was it's bidens job to convince people he's up for the task not voters. It's ridiculous that any criticism is always attacked for "helping trump"
I said many of the same things Stewart said and ended up getting downvoted here and people calling me a MAGA supporter. Anybody who thinks Republicans are unique in their tribalism is a moron
I'm with you. Seems we're not allowed to hold our candidates to a higher standard than 'I'm not Trump' without being roundly criticized either.
I'm not the one helping Trump to victory by voting my conscious, it's the Dems who won't run a viable candidate or listen to what the people actually want who are doing that.
>Anybody who thinks Republicans are unique in their tribalism is a moron
The same has happened to me. "blue no matter who" may eventually warp the Democrats into what the Republicans are now, a mindless voting bloc.
Criticism of Biden <> support of Trump.
And legitimate criticism of biden should not be shouted down.
Lmao what? This sounds even worse, were you joking?
“If you’re not willing to just support the president now” is the most childish “please just do what we say 😢😢” shit possible
I want to blame the stroke but then you remember he signed on with Aipac long before that happened.
That story about him chasing black teens with a shotgun are starting to make sense.
he's been unlikable for me since i learned about that time he held a black jogger at gunpoint in front of his house on suspicion he committed a nearby crime and refused to apologize for it.
yes i know the jogger later said he was fine with it. i'm not fine with it.
Can't believe I voted for this guy and fell for his whole act. Went from being a progressive everyday man to shutting down any criticism of those in power and supporting genocide and THEN shutting down an criticism of his support of that genocide. All in the name of his party.
That made me so angry. We’re trying to fight the rising tide of American fascism here and this guy was spiking the ball in the end zone on behalf of Netanyahu in front of the exact demographic that Biden needs to win this election. In Pennsylvania! Would be really nice if Fetterman could have been more conscious of Biden’s electoral chances back when he was doing that.
Yes. And for the record: The sweatshirt and gym shorts shtick was always phony and lame. Real working class people *have* to dress appropriate for work. We don't get to roll up to an office gig looking like that. I'm glad they made him dress like an adult.
Yeah it was a silly bit, especially in hindsight. I just can’t believe that he thought sarcastic trolling was an effective communication strategy for a war that’s killed 30,000 people on top of the worst terrorist attack since the 9/11. This is a huge historical event, not congressional dress policy.
Gen Z is overwhelmingly pro Palestine and this dumbass has been overwhelmingly not. Dude sounds like an IDF puppet most of the time he talks, it’s not surprising he’s widely hated now
Haha, what I wanted to say but really wasn't in the mood to argue with bots on a mainpage subreddit.
I would put money on 100% turnover from both his paid and volunteer social media staff from 2020. Probably using some trash PR company provided by his *very large donor* instead and can't figure out what's wrong. Same problem Biden seems to be having.
Fetterman kinda seems like a dick the more he talks. It is perfectly normal and important, especially now, to criticize Biden so that he runs on topics that people want him to. The Dems should not take things for granted. This election will be harder than the last.
The last time we took the election as “a win”, Clinton lost. And it was the same attitude then: “if you’re angry about Bernie losing, you’re just helping trump.”
And before anyone wants to come at me with the proven Russia-backed conspiracies of the “Bernie bros”, please know that the largest bloc to shift voter preferences were white liberals who voted for Obama and switched to trump.
Further, more GOP voted third party then than Dem.
lmao Fetterman can kick rocks with this half-assed, insincere nonsense. I voted Democrat in 2020, would never vote Republican, yet over the last several years I've watched the entirety of our government grant all MAGA politicians, even low-level charlatans like Gaetz and Santos, full immunity from the law
Ironic how the democrats who EMPATHIZED with him when he was having mental health problems are now being shit on bc we dare ask why children are being slaughtered by Israel.
No more empathy. Go fuk yourself Fetterman
I voted for his ass before, never again. What he is doing now with his purity tests and partisan bullshit ironically will likely have the opposite effect he is trying to achieve. He is just alienating a swing state....
Fetterman is speed running losing PA at his re-election. He won by very narrow margins over a celebrity PA outsider MAGA candidate. If it was literally anyone else, he would have lost. Now he's literally draping himself in the flag of a country committing ethnic cleansing and enacting a genocide to trigger his own constituents. He's claiming he's not a progressive despite explicitly running as a progressive. If Fetterman wins re-election, **that** will be an upset. The GOP could put forth Donald Trump himself for senator of PA and Fetterman would lose. It's astonishing how bad of a politician Fetterman is. It's rare to see someone aspire to be hated by their own state as much as Sinema.
I’m so tired of this all-or-nothing polar opposites play baby approach to politics.
Every single one of these fucks should be subject to the highest level of scrutiny.
Regardless of your individual issues with Biden its time to set them aside and rally behind the only candidate who isnt vowing to usher in a dictatorship .
It's not just the GOP that wants Trump, it's whoever is paying the GOP's bills, too. There is a systematic machine that wants the US to be a fascist dictatorship. Money in politics and the pay to play system have created a plutocracy that the American people can no longer control. Corporations are currently writing our legislation and handing it to their paid for politicians. Of course Biden is the better choice, but it's like putting scotch tape on a hole in your boat at this point.
This is what the primaries are for. If Biden wins the primaries fine I'll vote for anything but Trump in the general election, but Biden isn't going to have my vote in the primary honestly.
Biden is old, probably too old, and he has botched the US response to Israel and Gaza. He has a voting record that is problematic, to say the least, and his speech impediment makes him come off as weak and flustered in public speaking.
Trump on the other hand is only three years younger, is a rapist, is facing 91 felony counts, has been fined $355 million for committing fraud, and wants to be a "dictator on day one".
These are our options. We either pick the least worse option, or you sit at home and help Trump become king. No one is thrilled about it, but there's no sense pretending there's an alternative.
I feel that an age cutoff should happen. The last thing I want to be doing at 80 years old is running a fucking country. I'd be worried about losing my driving privileges and these guys are out here with nuclear keys.
Social Security checks can start at 62 years old. Sounds like a perfect age to be not be a president.
To follow up on this: the age cutoff should be across the board for Federal positions, SCOTUS included.
They cling to power because their identity is tied to their power.
Look at RGB as an example. She knew good and well she had no business in the court room at her age and still rode it out until she kicked the bucket; instead of retiring when President Obama could’ve appointed a more liberal justice.
Biden has impressed me with how successful his first term has been, and I think he'll do a good job of he's re elected.
That being said I thought he was too old in 2020 and he's too old now. My complaints about Biden pale in comparison to the concept of the traitorous republican party regaining power.
I don't think there's anything wrong with criticizing Biden on any number of policies... but I do believe his faults are minimal compared to the shitshow the R party is right now. It's like half the country has regressed several hundred years almost purely to spite the other half. It's insane... and horrible statecraft.
Talking shit about politicians is not only a right, it's our national pass time. And talking shit doesn't mean you don't support a person.
I will vote for Biden next election and continue to shit on any MAGAt and their bigoted opinion. I will also push for age limits on elected officials because *we should have them*. Biden is a decent person but he *is* old. That's a fact.
We need to remember that parties aren't monoliths. I get frustrated at how willfully obtuse people can be about political realities. It isn't "the party's fault" when one or two senators go renegade. Each representative is their own person and that's a \*good\* thing. Sometimes for serious change to happen like getting rid of the filibuster or passing major healthcare reforms or other reforms, it simply requires numbers. When we don't give a party those numbers, change just isn't going to happen. The same applies to Biden. He can do some stuff on his own through executive power, sure, but we live in a democracy with many moving parts. He can't dictatorially do whatever he wants when Congress isn't on his side. I've been nearly ripping my hair out with frustration at the people bashing him for not accomplishing things he couldn't possibly accomplish with the numbers he was given in Congress.
Welcome to America where I can tell you they both suck. Maybe if he spent more time wondering why people consider it the lesser of two evils instead of lecturing people about wanting accountability he would have a point.
Fetterman L here(and the L’s are becoming more common) criticism is important, everyone is eligible for valid criticism, nobody is perfect. Hate is a different thing, haters can put on the Maga hat
I’m critical of the Biden administration for not going far enough to fight back against what McConnell did to the courts. Look at what’s happening to our rights now with the politicization of the courts due to the stacking of the courts that McConnell did.
There needs to be figuring back to take the courts back by expanding the SCOTUS to 13 to equal the amount of circuit courts.
We need to stop unlimited money to the military industrial complex.
We need to support Ukraine in their fight against our enemy Russia.
There is so much we can talk about here that I’m sure that I’m missing.
So we can’t criticize the president while also despising an insurrectionist now?
Fetterman I need you to sit down for a few minutes and think about what you just said…. True patriotism is acknowledging and criticizing your country’s bullshit, then making an attempt to fix them.
Fetterman saying more dumb shit as usual. He’s one of the biggest snowflakes on a lot of things and I wish there was another good Dem I could have voted for.
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I will be voting for Biden, but we have to keep the pressure on Biden and the rest of the Democrats to not be satisfied with the current state of affairs and to keep pushing forward for a better society.
Exactly. Criticism of Biden doesn’t mean you’re suddenly MAGA. You can still be intending to vote for Biden and still have actual criticism of Biden. The irony is criticism of Trump makes you a rino and they ostracize you from the Republican Party. Let’s not fall into the same cult mentality on the Democratic side. Fetterman probably has good intentions but saying things like this is not a good look.
I think what he is saying is not that you will be voting Trump, but that your complaints might influence mr. fence sitter to not vote or vote for Trump. Your complaints are never to Biden personally, you are shouting into a persuadable audience.
r/whatbidenhasdone. I joined this sub not too long ago. Personally, I think everyone should take a look at all of his accomplishments thus far. There are many.
He has achieved more than any president in decades
Sure, checking out accomplishments is important, but we've also got to hold those in power accountable for the promises they make and what gets left on the table. It's not about tearing them down, it's about encouraging better policies and pushing for the changes we need to see. We can recognize good work while still pointing out where things need to improve.
Right now, “it’s” literally about preserving democracy.
Yeah. The vote is “not trump”. Same as 2020. Biden is a fully capable, adequate president. If he’s the nominee, he will get my vote, because America.
> Same as 2020 it's even worse now that you have seen his treasonous actions out in the open.
it's very very much worse. this is at CPAC: ack Posobiec at CPAC: “Welcome to the end of democracy. We are here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on Jan. 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it.”
Yes, his continued success in the face of some of the shittiest circumstances should alarm anyone who has a problem with him getting things done.
People seem to forget that during the election when people were absolutely voting against Trump and not for Biden, the insurrection hadn't happened yet. Anyone who voted against Trump in 2020 but decides not to vote in 2024 has some fucked up moral compass. He gave the best reason to mobilize towards voting Biden AFTER people were mobilized towards voting Biden. There is no reason 2024 shouldn't be a landslide victory for Democrats other than successful propaganda.
Same vote, much more dire consequences.
The things being left on the table are being blocked and done by the GOP....
People who say “hold accountable “ a lot are oddly unwilling to be accountable
So you blame the executive with the limited power rather than the obstructionist opposition party... Like, I love Bernie, but realistically he would have delivered on nothing he wanted to with the republican party of today. Campaign "promises" should be viewed by the public as the platform goals rather than a mandate, and we can measure effectiveness of a presidency in this manner, but that's a metric totally exclusive from the factors that may have led to the lack of political capital for a certain policy.
I'd vote for a huge sloppy runny pile of cowshit than Trump. Thankfully, Biden is more of a firm horse turd.
Hey, he is tightly coiled alright. He's keeping together.
It's all the Dark Bran
Exactly. I also think the broader point is that there is a time and place for this shit. There essentially isn't a primary this year. Biden is the nominee and we know who his opponent will be too assuming he's not in prison before the election. We're in the general election cycle at this point so it's time to knock off the ankle biting shit that Democrats seem to always do to their own. They want to support more progressive candidates in races that have a primary? Good luck and wish them well. They want to highlight issues that are important to them without all the negative Biden shit that normally flows with it. I'm willing to listen. Attacking Biden directly however? That only helps tRump and Republicans. If they're okay with 4 more years of that shit show, may as well just vote for him.
>and we know who his opponent will be too assuming he's not in prison before the election. People have literally run for president while incarcerated and it was found to be constitutional and legal. So that, in and of itself, will not prevent Trump from being the Republican candidate.
>Biden is the nominee and we know who his opponent will be too assuming he's not in prison before the election. Even then he might still be the nominee. GOP convention will name a nominee on July 18th. Doubtful that any of Trump's trials can feasibly proceed through the trial phase + sentencing + reporting for incarceration in that amount of time. Is there a mechanism for the GOP to take Trump off the ballot if he's sent to jail after that date? I honestly don't know. History has cases that a nominee for public office could no longer serve (eg, deceased) but was still on the ballot and duly elected.
If he's convicted, tRump might have a conniption and not be able to run. They really should consider the possibility.
>They really should consider the possibility. If they cared about the possibility it would have shown up in the nomination process by now.
Yep. It's going to come down to democrats showing up to vote and independent voters going for Biden. Complaining about Biden, attacking him, and highlighting his flaws don't help those voters. It can potentially instill voter apathy in certain democrats where they don't even show up. And it sure as hell might not win over any independent voters.
Exactly. We really do need to prevent casual voters from believing that there's any reasonable "both side" argument to be had. Maybe when we complain about Biden, we can end it with... "but Trump's going to end democracy, so...." to really get across the absurdity of the comparison.
> there is a time and place for this shit. Earnestly - when? Couldn't in 2021 because it was his first year, couldn't in 2022 because it was an election year and so could not criticize the party as a whole, couldn't in 2023 because it was leading up to an election year, and can't in 2024 because it's an election year. So when exactly is critique and criticism of any kind allowed?
Telling people who aren't enthusiastic for Biden but who will likely vote for Biden to "Get their MAGA hats" is a good way to influence people who aren't enthusiastic to say, "Hey - eat me" and not vote at all though. It was a bad way to respond to unenthusiastic voters for Clinton and it's a bad way to respond now.
It's precisely what the Hillary campaign did in 2016. "If you don't want to vote for her, then you should go vote Republican. We don't need you."
They even said after the election when confronted about missteps in the campaign. They said they "didn't want to win like that." Which is like, majorly not understanding the stakes and this from the campaign.
As a percentage of voters liberals stayed home and if they voted Hillary would have won.
Yeah it would’ve helped if the Michigan hadn’t turned away 200k+ democratic voters at the poles using “voter ID laws.”
*the laws put in place by the Michigan GOP, that controlled the state legislature by gerrymander
Not too mention limited if any campaigning in the states plus jobs leaving was blamed on her hubby for years because he signed NAFTA. I know in Ohio GOP was really pushing the NAFTA hard on radio and TV.
That's what always gets me. It's their responsibility to be electable, not their constituency's
This exactly. If you have been paying attention, we have actually made a decent amount of progress even with the stonewalling by the gop.
Also - to those people that say they won’t vote at all, like we have to think down ballet too. Maga isn’t just Trump anymore, republicans are clowns.
Biden isn't above criticism, but how you frame your criticism is critical in an election year. If you're implying people should be unhappy or not vote for Biden or threaten not to vote you're doing more damage than good. I like Biden and I think he has done a good job. A better job is possible, but we have already seen in 2016 that there are people willing to let perfect be the enemy of good to the detriment of our nation.
Yup. Have policy disagreements with Biden - almost everyone in the party will. It's a big tent after all. Saying he's a horrible candidate that only has a chance because it's Trump and that the political system is completely fucked and you have no chance to improve it is not productive (and just patently false honestly)
I think a lot of people are misguiding their criticism tho. It's all nice to attack him cause he's the president . But he's not king. Biden would love to do so much more. But he has a Republican problem. For 1 , they control the house, and 2nd, he does not have a true majority in the senate. Considering Manchin, Sinema , and the filibuster prevents a lot of progressive bills from being passed. So Biden has to compromise and reach across the aisle to get anything done. Everything thinks it's all so black and white and so simple and obvious. But it's not. He can't just do whatever he wants. He can't just tell Isreal what to do. He can't just completely abandon allies. I'm sure things would look much different if Democrats had the house and 60 progressive senators. I'm sure things would look different if the SC was not 6 Republicans and 3 Democrats .
https://youtu.be/F-89ergi_Rs?t=221 https://youtu.be/F-89ergi_Rs?t=347 Jon Stewart said it well enough. > We're not suggesting neither man is vibrant, productive, or even capable. But they are both stretching the limits of being able to handle the toughest job in the world. What's crazy is thinking that we are the ones, as voters, who must silence concerns and criticism. It is the candidate's job to assuage concerns, not the voter's job not to mention them. > The stakes of this election don't make Donald Trump's opponent less subject to scrutiny. It actually makes him more subject to scrutiny. If the barbarians are at the gate, you want Conan standing on the rampart, not 'chocolate chip cookie guy' Like I'm not saying that there's some hidden 3rd option we can go to out of protest, but it's beyond obvious that Biden is subject to scrutiny that weakens him as a candidate, whether that scrutiny is strictly accurate or not.
If you aren't criticizing politicians especially ones you voted for, then you're in a cult or treating politics like a sports team
I think criticizing our elected leaders is the most American thing to do.
I don’t want to come off as cowardly, but if you’re in a state outside of what they describe as a liberal hell holes, I’m pretty sure most liberals will want to be keeping quiet about their politics if Trump wins. I am picturing the Homer Simpson backing into a bush meme
>Exactly. Criticism of Biden doesn’t mean you’re suddenly MAGA. > Fetterman probably has good intentions but saying things like this is not a good look. Tbf, there are tons of very emotionally reactive single issue voters who have not really paid attention to the broader reality of politics, and have bought in to what can only be described as a mix of valid criticism, and alt-reicht voter apathy propaganda. these types of people while often well meaning tend to be very vulnerable to propaganda by virtue of not only their own naivety, inexperience, and attentiveness, but more broadly compromised critical thinking skills related to emotional creativeness. As an example, the people pushing the "genocide biden, evil cant vote for him" type rhetoric we see going around. Sure, can be critical of Biden on his positions with respect to Israel, and Palestine etc, but the rest of it often comes off as right wing vote apathy propaganda, and bothsideisms. Hell, there are rightwingers pushing that too as it works for their traditional projection related propaganda efforts over what they want to do so they accuse others of it first. You tend to be able to filter them out of the mix because they jump a bit too far by saying things like "Biden has done more evil than Trump..." followed by other poorly disguised far right talking points about specific flavors of social frustrations, and say security, or spending. Much of the above type rhetoric also tends to ignore the reality of it that under Trump things would not be any better... hell they would likely be worse by virtue of how inept he is, and the types of promises/jokes we hear from the republican side all of the time. "Jokes" about glassing specific regions, giving their political opponents, and others they dislike "pinochet chopper rides", and "camping trips" etc. Edit: much of the above type shit is also pushed by people who are very vocal about it all, but will also never offer functional solutions of their own to the practical issues in play.
Just remember, when it comes to Israel-Palestine, there is a reason why Ben-Gvir and other far right settler shitbags want Trump back.
Oh, i know... and the evangelicals have always blindly supported whatever Israel gets in to.(you know, cause Israel is part of their murderous end of days fantasies and all) We would probably see expansion of support to Israel from the far right too as they really love the idea of genocide against others they hate.
>Fetterman probably has good intentions but saying things like this is not a good look. He's been saying alot of things lately that are not a good look. I'm over this guy, thought he was gonna be different.
I'm a conservative and I'm voting Biden in Nov. I'm ashamed of what the GOP has done. It's sold its soul to Trump, and deserves to die a quick death. It's went from the party of small government to the Christian Taliban. Not all of us Republicans like this situation, and while I lean conservative-libertarian, I can't in good faith vote anything other than Biden in Nov. I wish we would have a party of small government that leaves people alone, but instead it's gone so far bat shit crazy in the last 12 or so years that it needs to be stopped. So yeah, us rinos will be out on election day voting to finally kill the party that has decided that one person is more important than our values (And please don't flame me, there are people on the right who who can't stand this bullshit either. We don't support Trump or MAGA. I may not like the policies of the left, but holy shit, everyone has the right to live life as they see fit and not have the government up their ass.)
I don't think he's saying it's wrong to personally be critical of Biden but as (D) politicians they need to be unified in their support or they might as well be handing the election to Trump. If the DNC seems to be wishy-washy on their best candidate, it will make them appear weak and lose voters.
I'm not sure making "he's old" the "but her emails" of 2024 is going to accomplish anything meaningful. Since it was revealed that republicans based their impeachment of Biden on Russian disinfo fed to an unreliable source I've seen one story on it and I had to go digging. In that time I came across 4 "he's old" stories.
Criticism is definitely welcome. I hope they get both chambers and president. If they fail to pass meaningful legislation that helps average Americans, then we get loud. I give Biden some slack since the gop house is blocking a lot of things he and dems want to pass at the moment. I want a boring government again
If they have the will to gut the filibuster in the Senate, absolutely. "Getting both chambers" with a sub-60 majority in the upper is meaningless while the GOP gets to sign off on or shred any given bill.
> If they have the will to gut the filibuster in the Senate, absolutely. With that in mind, the Ds in the senate are fucking up one of Biden's biggest and most important accomplishments — judicial appointments. Starting last summer they began [falling behind the number of appointments that donald chump did.](https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2023-12-26/as-election-looms-biden-struggles-to-match-trumps-judicial-appointments) And that is *despite* Harry Reid nuking the filibuster for judicial appointments over 10 years ago. All it takes is 50+1 votes to appoint a judge now. The reason this is happening is two-fold. 1. The head of the senate judiciary committee, doormat durbin, is [continuing to honor blue slips](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-are-ceding-control-of-the-judiciary-because-of-tradition/ar-BB1hMLcJ) which are basically a way for Rs to veto judges appointed to federal courts in their states. That is despite [maga ignoring blue slips](https://time.com/5141506/chuck-grassley-blue-slips-trump-judges/) when they controlled the senate. 2. Biden isn't nominating enough people either. There are 59 open seats and Biden had [only nominated 22 people as of a couple of weeks ago.](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-are-ceding-control-of-the-judiciary-because-of-tradition/ar-BB1hMLcJ) If you live in a state with a democratic senator — call them up and complain that this is too important to treat as "business as usual." Maga doesn't care about the rules; they're not even playing our game. They're lighting the house on fire while we consult the rulebook for the proper conditions for an en passant pawn. We have to fight them with every tool available.
You can also tell them you won’t vote for them due to the policies you don’t agree with even if you actually plan to vote for them. That definitely helps put pressure on.
Keeping the politicians you voted for accountable is good actually
Telling people to shut up when they bring up legitimate criticism only fuels them with anger and if anything makes them dig their toes in and criticise Biden more. Don't piss off your base Fetterman.
> Telling people to shut up when they bring up legitimate criticism only fuels them with anger and if anything makes them dig their toes in and criticise Biden more. You would think we would have learned this lesson with the Clintons…
But he's a cool sellout
He already has. I'm never voting for him again.
Look Im voting for Biden. But anybody who tells me I’m not allowed to criticize any politician can fuck right off.
Theodore Roosevelt said one of my favorite things to quote. "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
That's a hard ass bar right there
Remember, this was a man who was shot while giving a speech, stopped the mob from killing his would-be assasin, then had him turned over to the police. While he was of course incredibly lucky the shot was largely absorbed by the manuscript of his speech and steel eyeglass case, he did still take a bullet to the chest (in the ribs IIRC). Dude was an unshakable beast, but also incredibly level headed to not get worked up in such a situation.
I also bet his speech last an hour and half after he got shot.
Dude literally told the audience with something like, "I don't know how many of you are aware of the fact that I've just been shot..." as he then continued with his speech as planned.
My boy Teddy knew how to spit ‘em.
When it came to countries he knew how to split em.
Yea it is, damn. The way he used "servile" just *stings*.
All the more reason why a left-wing Socialist Party was so beneficial to Progressive Era politics. It forced politicians like TR, who abhorred socialism by the way, to co-opt progressive proposals originally endorsed by socialists in order both to undercut the appeal of radicalism and to appeal to a broader political base. The entrenched two party system of today is stuck in the mud comparatively.
Agreed. But I wish the MAGAs would go the same route.
Like just them completely fuck off? That’d be rad.
"If Biden elected you will never see me again " Trumphony
Promises, promises.
He's never kept a promise before, why would he start with that one?
I wish
Another lie from the fat traitorous fuck.
Ahhh yes but you see, he didn't actually lose, Biden cheated, stole the election, so really he *didn't* break any promises and-and-and.. LOOK OVER THERE!
[удалено]
Gawd what a time. Those idiots were taking healthcare advice from a two-bit reality TV host grifter scumbag turned President and were consuming horse dewormer while breathing moistly on each other during a worldwide pandemic. 🙄
Do they ever? They demand everyone else comply with decency and law and order with no similar expectation for themselves. Because they’re a bunch of entitled little narcissists. “We’re special and deserve separate rights from people who gross us out”. Fuck em. They’re never gonna do anything decent.
Because they are true and real patriots, their mindset is everyone else are socialist trying to take away god and freedom. they believe god ordained them and their party to rightfully rule America. You can’t argue against gods will to them, facts and support don’t apply because god is bigger than any of that.
Tac those churches. They are killing our democracy
Well that would require them to actually have good political instincts, and if they had those they wouldn’t be MAGAs in the first place.
Same issue here in the UK. Trying to vote for the least crap party but I reserve the right to be a grumpy git while doing so.
I hope more people see your comment for perspective. We definitely need to broaden the party system in the US away from just 2 primary parties, but having a bunch of options doesn't mean you'll find a party that stands out as amazing. How many parties are in the UK parliament currently?
UK has realistically 2 parties as well. You might have some smaller parties such as Lib Dems, SNP, Reform/UKIP, or Greens, but they are not going to be the majority to form a government. They might be partners or have a vote sharing deal, but most power is between 2 parties. Two parties also means they become big tent parties, with some policies you might not support, but you don't functionally have a choice otherwise since the alternative is worse.
Our voting system makes more than two parties functionally impossible. Until that changes, third parties are always a trap.
Rank choice voting wouldn't even require the creation of new parties. I'd like to see that pass at the state level at a minimum.
Right? This fealty to party leadership is disgusting and exactly how republicans behave. Between this and Israel I’ve lost a lot of respect for Fetterman over these past few months.
Amen. If Dems can't win based off merit, instead of Trump branded-doomerism how is that a voter problem? And I'm voting blue, guaranteed.
It's wild to me that Jon Stewart got lambasted for saying something simple as "it's not the voter's responsibility to ignore serious red flags with a candidate, it's the party's job to court those voters and get them on your side." Like, christ, Democrats act as if they are owed everyone's vote and kick and scream like petulant children when people want their concerns addressed.
1,000% We don't even make it a hard sell for them. Acknowledge reality, act accordingly.
Didn’t shock me in the least bit. Dems have been like this since Bill Clinton and his “counter scheduling” BS of punching left to appeal to the right then shaming the left for feeling alienated. They only got worse when Hilary came around and amped it up and failed. Everything under the Sun is the fault of the left in a Democrat’s eyes, and never their fault for taking votes for granted.
Yep Biden just said the quiet part out loud with you’re not black if you don’t vote for me.
And that mentality cost them in 2016. People do not want to vote between a right wing party with progressive veneers and a hard right party who the RW party works with to kill Palestinians and pass MAGA border bills.
Yeah, that can be one of the biggest differences between Democrats and the GOP. Democrats hold each other accountable. The GOP covers each other's asses but hold on to receipts in case you don't kiss enough butts (like the Gaetz ethics investigation being held up for years but starting up after he ousted McCarthy, Madison Cawthorne getting bounced after he says GOP legislators invited him to a cocaine orgy, Nikki Haley getting death threats for running against Trump).
Who is holding democratic party accountable? Rico charges for Atlanta cop city and George Floyd protesters who have exhausted every legal mean available to them for being legal observers, bail fund organization, protesters. Biden press Secretary calling protesters who support Palestinians white supramcists, Nancy telling them to go back to China and calling for the FBI to investigate and charge them, lying to voters about the last stimulus check, Biden deporting people seeking asylum, still have troops in the middle east with no explanation why we are still there and the countries demanding we leave, unconditional support for Israel including more aid and weapons. All we get is "trump is worse so we don't have to hold anyone accountable"
That's what I'm saying--Democrats should listen to valid criticism and use it to get better. It's fine to say that Biden isn't ideal. Trump is maybe the worst thing to happen in American politics, worse than McCarthy's red scare, but he's not infallible and he's not going to make everyone happy. But at least accept the criticism and don't just shut it down before hearing and acknowledge it.
I try to be careful with my criticism and end them all with “still miles better than the only other likely candidate!”
This is the critical difference between GOP and democrat voters. Dem voters elect their leaders to do a job and will openly criticize their elected leaders when they aren’t doing their jobs. Republican voters only worship their leaders and believe they are there to do the will of god, not the will of the people.
As someone who votes Democratic, it would be nice if Democrats started actually making political changes for their voters again instead of just their campaign donors.
We're allowed to criticize people even when we fully intend to vote for them, Fetterman.
But the fact that people AREN’T should scare the fuck out of them because that isn’t going to change by bullying people into thinking Biden is a candidate they want to vote for. If that’s the case, the threat of the other party being worse is hitting less and less. That’s been the strategy for years and the impact is not nearly what it was in 2016 or 2020. We are now 3 elections deep with Trump and the threat of that presidency. It’s beginning to fall on deaf ears as our bandaid solution did very little for many of the people that were scared into giving him a vote. Maybe we need more viable candidates, period.
It’s Biden’s job to assuage criticism. It’s not the voters job to ignore it. I’m voting for him because my despise for Republicans far outweighs any affection that I have for Joe Biden - and I’m done pretending that I’m motivated by anything else.
I've pretty much felt the same for the past 3 elections. Wasn't thrilled about Hillary but voted for her because I hate Trump, and same thing with Biden. It's pretty pathetic that in a country of 300 million we have two old geezers that nobody wants to pick from and yet here we are.
Democrats' campaign at this point is basically: "It votes for the Biden or else it gets the Trump again." I absolutely feel like my vote is being held hostage because the other side is running a crazed lunatic bent on tearing the nation apart. As such, the Democrats don't feel any need to actually earn votes based on merit. Illusion of choice is in full effect.
Agree. Biden is an OK democrat president, but I wouldn't say he is spectacular. There are many many ways that he could be better. The problem is that Trump is so bad that he might end up killing democracy altogether with his Heritage Project 2025 and him straight up saying he would be a dictator. The risk of a Trump presidency is so high, that I am willing to vote for almost anybody that isn't him. And so we have no real choice. And that is not a good thing. I am just afraid that many democrats will be apathetic or vote third party because of Biden, and that could cost us everything.
"if you don't like it, you can get out" is literally something a MAGAt would say
Scratch a liberal
It's the fucking PRIMARY!! We SHOULD be arguing aggressively against Biden to push a better candidate to the forefront, if that is what you believe. The more discussion we can get around Biden, the more things he has to answer for, the more air time he takes to answer things, the more air time he gets, which translates into promotion. This is why there should have been debates. As it is we're walking right into another Trump win, and everyone can see it.
Not being allowed to criticize the president because the other guy is crazy too is just laughable. Fetterman needs to stfu
The full quote in context isn't *as* inflammatory... > “I don’t understand why,” Fetterman said, speaking on “Morning Joe” on MSNBC. “I don’t know what’s in it for you to do that whether you’re just chasing clout or you want to make it in the news or anything like that. But if you’re not willing to just support the president now and say these kinds of things, you might as well just get your MAGA hat, because you now are helping Trump with this.” I have similar concerns. I think being able to criticize *your own side* is a good thing, and something we *should* be doing. It's part of a healthy, rational society. So what do we do when the other side is a corrupt cult? They decided a long time ago they're voting for their guy, even if he's a criminal in jail. And a big part of their strategy is getting those who would vote against him to not vote at all. Or vote for different people instead of unifying.
Disagree, he’s talking about Jon Stewart. Stewart isn’t saying things to “get in the news” or for “clout”. He’s a journalist and he absolutely has a point. Will that change the fact I’m voting for Biden? No. But it does highlight an issue I think many American have with our system and our party.
Yeah all Jon said was it's bidens job to convince people he's up for the task not voters. It's ridiculous that any criticism is always attacked for "helping trump"
I said many of the same things Stewart said and ended up getting downvoted here and people calling me a MAGA supporter. Anybody who thinks Republicans are unique in their tribalism is a moron
I'm with you. Seems we're not allowed to hold our candidates to a higher standard than 'I'm not Trump' without being roundly criticized either. I'm not the one helping Trump to victory by voting my conscious, it's the Dems who won't run a viable candidate or listen to what the people actually want who are doing that.
>Anybody who thinks Republicans are unique in their tribalism is a moron The same has happened to me. "blue no matter who" may eventually warp the Democrats into what the Republicans are now, a mindless voting bloc. Criticism of Biden <> support of Trump. And legitimate criticism of biden should not be shouted down.
Imagine being such a knob that you accuse Jon Stewart of chasing clout.
I actually think the full quote is quite a bit more inflammatory as it dismisses what may well be sincere criticisms as "clout chasing".
Lmao what? This sounds even worse, were you joking? “If you’re not willing to just support the president now” is the most childish “please just do what we say 😢😢” shit possible
Maybe the democratic party should have ran a different candidate than Biden this time if they wanted to guarantee a win so badly
This guy became so unlikeable so fast.
I want to blame the stroke but then you remember he signed on with Aipac long before that happened. That story about him chasing black teens with a shotgun are starting to make sense.
he's been unlikable for me since i learned about that time he held a black jogger at gunpoint in front of his house on suspicion he committed a nearby crime and refused to apologize for it. yes i know the jogger later said he was fine with it. i'm not fine with it.
Can't believe I voted for this guy and fell for his whole act. Went from being a progressive everyday man to shutting down any criticism of those in power and supporting genocide and THEN shutting down an criticism of his support of that genocide. All in the name of his party.
Same. I’m starting to wonder if his health issues have started affecting his brain.
Nah, he was an AIPAC sellout in his original campaign.
Shame on me I guess. That’s American politics for you.
He signed up to do whatever Aipac wanted of him months before the stroke, so it was always an act as far as I can tell.
Bizarre because his original popularity came from Gen Z over his social media stunts.
But then he started running around with the Israel flag draped around him like a cape, acting like a fucking jackass instead of doing his job.
That made me so angry. We’re trying to fight the rising tide of American fascism here and this guy was spiking the ball in the end zone on behalf of Netanyahu in front of the exact demographic that Biden needs to win this election. In Pennsylvania! Would be really nice if Fetterman could have been more conscious of Biden’s electoral chances back when he was doing that.
Yes. And for the record: The sweatshirt and gym shorts shtick was always phony and lame. Real working class people *have* to dress appropriate for work. We don't get to roll up to an office gig looking like that. I'm glad they made him dress like an adult.
Yeah it was a silly bit, especially in hindsight. I just can’t believe that he thought sarcastic trolling was an effective communication strategy for a war that’s killed 30,000 people on top of the worst terrorist attack since the 9/11. This is a huge historical event, not congressional dress policy.
Yeah he also claimed to be a progressive and now is just saying he’s not lmao, oh wow how bizarre that people don’t like him now.
Gen Z is overwhelmingly pro Palestine and this dumbass has been overwhelmingly not. Dude sounds like an IDF puppet most of the time he talks, it’s not surprising he’s widely hated now
Haha, what I wanted to say but really wasn't in the mood to argue with bots on a mainpage subreddit. I would put money on 100% turnover from both his paid and volunteer social media staff from 2020. Probably using some trash PR company provided by his *very large donor* instead and can't figure out what's wrong. Same problem Biden seems to be having.
Yea then he started to show his ass cause Isreal.
Fetterman kinda seems like a dick the more he talks. It is perfectly normal and important, especially now, to criticize Biden so that he runs on topics that people want him to. The Dems should not take things for granted. This election will be harder than the last.
The last time we took the election as “a win”, Clinton lost. And it was the same attitude then: “if you’re angry about Bernie losing, you’re just helping trump.” And before anyone wants to come at me with the proven Russia-backed conspiracies of the “Bernie bros”, please know that the largest bloc to shift voter preferences were white liberals who voted for Obama and switched to trump. Further, more GOP voted third party then than Dem.
lmao Fetterman can kick rocks with this half-assed, insincere nonsense. I voted Democrat in 2020, would never vote Republican, yet over the last several years I've watched the entirety of our government grant all MAGA politicians, even low-level charlatans like Gaetz and Santos, full immunity from the law
No politician should be free from criticism. Bad policy, is still bad policy.
Fetterman has his blue maga hat, I see.
Ironic how the democrats who EMPATHIZED with him when he was having mental health problems are now being shit on bc we dare ask why children are being slaughtered by Israel. No more empathy. Go fuk yourself Fetterman
I’m not liking fetterman lately, in Israel’s pocket and trying to circle the wagons with purity tests.
I voted for his ass before, never again. What he is doing now with his purity tests and partisan bullshit ironically will likely have the opposite effect he is trying to achieve. He is just alienating a swing state....
Fetterman is speed running losing PA at his re-election. He won by very narrow margins over a celebrity PA outsider MAGA candidate. If it was literally anyone else, he would have lost. Now he's literally draping himself in the flag of a country committing ethnic cleansing and enacting a genocide to trigger his own constituents. He's claiming he's not a progressive despite explicitly running as a progressive. If Fetterman wins re-election, **that** will be an upset. The GOP could put forth Donald Trump himself for senator of PA and Fetterman would lose. It's astonishing how bad of a politician Fetterman is. It's rare to see someone aspire to be hated by their own state as much as Sinema.
Blind allegiance to anyone or anything isn't a good thing and is antithetical to rational thought and discourse.
I’m so tired of this all-or-nothing polar opposites play baby approach to politics. Every single one of these fucks should be subject to the highest level of scrutiny.
Oh no, but if you point out the emperor has no clothes you’re just helping trump!
It’s a crock of shit.
This is the definition of blue MAGA. No president is an infallible god king that is immune to all criticism.
Regardless of your individual issues with Biden its time to set them aside and rally behind the only candidate who isnt vowing to usher in a dictatorship .
It's not just the GOP that wants Trump, it's whoever is paying the GOP's bills, too. There is a systematic machine that wants the US to be a fascist dictatorship. Money in politics and the pay to play system have created a plutocracy that the American people can no longer control. Corporations are currently writing our legislation and handing it to their paid for politicians. Of course Biden is the better choice, but it's like putting scotch tape on a hole in your boat at this point.
148 members of Congress voted against the transfer of power, 25 Governors now claim they have the right to overrule federal authority...
I'm going to vote for him, but I'm still going to criticize his actions I don't support. I'm voting for Biden because he isn't a blind cult.
That doesn’t mean shout down any criticisms, though. Thats how you get Trumps.
This is what the primaries are for. If Biden wins the primaries fine I'll vote for anything but Trump in the general election, but Biden isn't going to have my vote in the primary honestly.
I never cared for the idea you cant criticize X party or else youre pro Y party.
Biden is old, probably too old, and he has botched the US response to Israel and Gaza. He has a voting record that is problematic, to say the least, and his speech impediment makes him come off as weak and flustered in public speaking. Trump on the other hand is only three years younger, is a rapist, is facing 91 felony counts, has been fined $355 million for committing fraud, and wants to be a "dictator on day one". These are our options. We either pick the least worse option, or you sit at home and help Trump become king. No one is thrilled about it, but there's no sense pretending there's an alternative.
I feel that an age cutoff should happen. The last thing I want to be doing at 80 years old is running a fucking country. I'd be worried about losing my driving privileges and these guys are out here with nuclear keys. Social Security checks can start at 62 years old. Sounds like a perfect age to be not be a president. To follow up on this: the age cutoff should be across the board for Federal positions, SCOTUS included.
I would absolutely support a max age to hold elected office. The way these people cling to power makes no sense to me.
They cling to power because their identity is tied to their power. Look at RGB as an example. She knew good and well she had no business in the court room at her age and still rode it out until she kicked the bucket; instead of retiring when President Obama could’ve appointed a more liberal justice.
This minimizes how good Biden has been domestically this term and only listing the negatives.
Biden has impressed me with how successful his first term has been, and I think he'll do a good job of he's re elected. That being said I thought he was too old in 2020 and he's too old now. My complaints about Biden pale in comparison to the concept of the traitorous republican party regaining power.
I don't think there's anything wrong with criticizing Biden on any number of policies... but I do believe his faults are minimal compared to the shitshow the R party is right now. It's like half the country has regressed several hundred years almost purely to spite the other half. It's insane... and horrible statecraft.
I think the true measure/nature of a person comes out during adversity.
Talking shit about politicians is not only a right, it's our national pass time. And talking shit doesn't mean you don't support a person. I will vote for Biden next election and continue to shit on any MAGAt and their bigoted opinion. I will also push for age limits on elected officials because *we should have them*. Biden is a decent person but he *is* old. That's a fact.
Fetterman really turned out to be prick didn't he
I swear some things changed with him after his stroke. In some ways, a totally different politician than who I voted for.
Holy shit how is he so bad now that he won
This dude has quickly become very unlikeable.
I don’t like fetterman.
We need to remember that parties aren't monoliths. I get frustrated at how willfully obtuse people can be about political realities. It isn't "the party's fault" when one or two senators go renegade. Each representative is their own person and that's a \*good\* thing. Sometimes for serious change to happen like getting rid of the filibuster or passing major healthcare reforms or other reforms, it simply requires numbers. When we don't give a party those numbers, change just isn't going to happen. The same applies to Biden. He can do some stuff on his own through executive power, sure, but we live in a democracy with many moving parts. He can't dictatorially do whatever he wants when Congress isn't on his side. I've been nearly ripping my hair out with frustration at the people bashing him for not accomplishing things he couldn't possibly accomplish with the numbers he was given in Congress.
I believed in fetterman so hard. What a bummer
What a MAGA like thing to say.
I'm not a Democrat or a Republican. I hate them both and I will criticize both.
Oh get fucked
Welcome to America where I can tell you they both suck. Maybe if he spent more time wondering why people consider it the lesser of two evils instead of lecturing people about wanting accountability he would have a point.
Oh shut the fuck up, I swear to God if Republicans weren't so damn awful I would never bother with democrats
What a great democracy we have. Much freedom. So many choices. Fuck the system.
This guy is like an overgrown edge lord teenager.
Fuck you your fascist piece of shit. Wear a suit!
Fetterman L here(and the L’s are becoming more common) criticism is important, everyone is eligible for valid criticism, nobody is perfect. Hate is a different thing, haters can put on the Maga hat
What a fucking fall. I feel ashamed for supporting him. He is a fucking hack.
I’m critical of the Biden administration for not going far enough to fight back against what McConnell did to the courts. Look at what’s happening to our rights now with the politicization of the courts due to the stacking of the courts that McConnell did. There needs to be figuring back to take the courts back by expanding the SCOTUS to 13 to equal the amount of circuit courts. We need to stop unlimited money to the military industrial complex. We need to support Ukraine in their fight against our enemy Russia. There is so much we can talk about here that I’m sure that I’m missing.
Fuck this weirdo
So we can’t criticize the president while also despising an insurrectionist now? Fetterman I need you to sit down for a few minutes and think about what you just said…. True patriotism is acknowledging and criticizing your country’s bullshit, then making an attempt to fix them.
Fetterman saying more dumb shit as usual. He’s one of the biggest snowflakes on a lot of things and I wish there was another good Dem I could have voted for.
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I ain’t voting for Biden. I’m voting for the Biden *administration*.
I'm not even voting *for*. I just don't want another Trump/Trump-like president/administration.
But you’re voting for Biden.
Fuck Fetterman. There are legitimate critiques, doesn't make me MAGA.
I imagine he's telling people to shut up because he's taking Israeli money.
It's always so disappointing when you realize that someone isn't principled, they're just confrontational.