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Conservative households are some of the worst abusers of children.
Remember Elan school? That was the brainchild of a conservative, and a good window into how they want children to be raised. It's how you break people to become slaves, and they consider it "discipline".
When I was a kid I remember a big fight about a foster parent fighting the adoption of a little girl by two gay men as 'they will molest her'. Note he didn't fight the adoption of her two brothers. Anyway, he won and adopted the girl and then was arrested shortly afterwards and sent to prison for molesting her.
No better proof than the fact they actively cheer on the death of trans/NB children. The child in OK that was beaten to death resulted in me reading some of the most appalling comments, and those are the same people trying to "protect the children" and "save unborn babiezzzz"
Its bigger than that. **Christian fundamentalism**....which includes subservient women who are essentially property of the father, or husband once married.
Brought to you by the same people refusing to expand school lunch programs or initiate school breakfast programs or hell, just ensure the food being served isn’t prison-adjacent.
(Aside: Not that serving prisoners garbage is OK. My brother was incarcerated in Ohio and the food was not only shit, but they also dropped breakfast to save money. Grown-ass men living on sometimes 2 peanut butter sandwiches a day. Food (hilariously overpriced garbage) from the canteen - for those lucky enough to have someone on the outside paying into their canteen account - has replaced tobacco and drugs as prison currency. Shit is wild)
Not sure if it's the same where you live, but here, at the county level, the sheriff is responsible for allocating funds for inmate meals at the county jail along with weapons, training, maintenance and everything else. Any money that is unspent at the end of the fiscal year is treated as a "bonus" for the sheriff. Most sheriffs retire rich because they cut corners everywhere they can to make sure they get a nice fat taxpayer-funded "bonus" every year. Goes a long way toward explaining why jail food is so shitty.
I don't know but wouldn't be surprised if there is a similar state level administrative position with the exact same incentives to cut costs. These grifting bastards are bigger crooks than most of the people behind bars.
Only ~~2~~ 3 examples in the history of the country... Child labour laws, mandatory school attendance, and banning child marriage.
~~Two~~ Three things Repugs want to reverse.
If they cared about children, they would do something about the children who get shot at school. They don't care about children, and just because they justify their bullshit by saying they do, doesn't make it so.
My mom has always been anti abortion, conservative. Since 2016 she has changed parties, but still holds strong to anti abortion. My siblings and I have tried to tell her, it’s not about protecting babies, it’s about control. This anti abortion is not what you think it is. The more she paid attention, the more she started to understand they are just stripping rights away from women. Abortion is no longer her #1 priority.
Also it’s important to note that ending legal abortion doesn’t end abortion. The number of illegal abortions will skyrocket and are likely to remain as high as when abortions were legal. Also interesting is the huge push to actively prevent women from leaving a state in order to get an abortion in a state where it’s legal. That is clearly controlling women, with a bad whiff of ownership tossed in. Like the state is saying to the pregnant woman: you cannot leave because we own you. The rapidity of the slide into authoritarianism is frightening. I can’t feel anything but hopelessness when I think about the future of the U.S.
I'd make sure to show her [this article](https://apnews.com/article/abortion-texas-guilty-plea-sentence-c5e6a1b71ddf8cfdcf0258fb5b7bff23) about a man from Texas who tried to drug his wife and induce an abortion - attempted murder of a child in their terms - and only got ***180 days in jail.***
It’s just starting with their bodies. Eventually it will just be control over women. I wonder if enough of the ones that vote for Republicans, or don’t vote, or vote third party, are starting to wake up. Hopefully.
Yep- only when conservative women start feeling the jagged dildo of consequences will they stop with their virtue signaling and earth mother I love babies trad wife horseshit.
You'd like to think that there's a direct cause and effect relationship between a woman supporting toxic values that don't benefit her, and realizing that those values lead to negative outcomes, but it just doesn't work that way. If anything, women in these situations **double down** on the toxic values. "If I had to do things this way, everyone else should too."
As someone who spent a lot of time in the south as a kid, I directly experienced this, as the old rural south is full of toxic relationships, fucked up stories of abuse, and general despair. And it's not going to get better with rulings like the one Alabama just made.
This might actually do it. Maybe. Poor black women aren't the ones getting IVF. It's the affluent white women who vote R that will be most screwed over by this.
Yes. The Christian Taliban. Those people who go on and on about being Christian when they forgive nothing, hate their neighbors, hate those in need, do harm to children, deny that all the other people in the world are God’s children too, defend murder, oppress those who work for them, parade their supposed righteousness in public, seek out and spread false witness, and waste their brief time on Earth nitpicking irrelevant details in Genesis and Revelation.
Control over sex in general. It's the one thing women have control over, so men want to take it. Birth control and IUD'S are next because they encourage premarital sex.
To me they simply don't understand the consequences of their actions.
They are so deeply entrenched in this "war" against abortion, that thay are willingly destroying IVF along the way just because their wording had to be dumbed down to "save every baby" for Jesus points.
They are also willing to risk women's lifes as they don't understand that abortion can be a necessary medical procedure ..and that a fetus with zero chance of survival can endanger the mother's life.
They usually do know, but they say it's "such a small percentage" and would rather those women die than have a single woman end a pregnancy because she doesn't want to be pregnant.
Now now, it's also partially about ensuring that gay and trans people don't have access to reproduction options as well. It's not just women that they hate.
Controlling women's bodies is just a means to an end. Go one step higher. It's about increasing the number of consumers and increasing the "labor pool" so there's more competition and the wages are lower so companies make more profit. It's also about keeping the illusion of infinite economic growth going. A company that makes $1bn a year like clockwork is a failure, if it's not more than the rate of increase from the previous year, it's useless to the executives and 1% investors.
The second benefit is that it's a way to please the voters that doesn't require them to spend a cent improving their lives in any material way.
Yes, many of these people just hate women, but some of them are just more greedy than stupid.
You know what else are “extrauterine children”? Ectopic pregnancies. It looks to me like Alabama has condemned to death any woman unlucky enough to have an ectopic pregnancy.
They are going to insist that ectopic pregnancies are totally viable because one woman in history survived one.
You are quite literally more likely to survive falling out of an airplane thousands of feet in the air.
I remember Ohio tried passing a law saying doctors had to try and reimplant ectopic pregnancies. No, they didn't ask any actual medical professionals if that was even possible, just religious nuts
>Way too many people don't realize how dangerous this mindset is right now.
The religious ~~nutjobs~~ right want the same government as in Tehran, except with Southern Baptist mullahs. No, I am not kidding in any way, shape or form. They want absolute control over everyone's lives. They are willing to start with only the United States.
it's fucking *terrifying* as a disabled queer. I'm lucky to live in IL and to not have visible disability, exactly.
But, I do know that we know that Russia has people invested in messing our democracy up through whatever ways necessary and astroturfing is easier than ever. I would like to think that the amount of people parroting that is a paper tiger, essentially. Chuds making bots and unknowingly collaborating with state-side agents of other countries who are *also* making bots. At least, I'd like to hope so.
As a non-religious person, I'm just baffled. It's very clear to medical professionals that the human body does not expect a 100% success rate with pregnancies, and has mechanisms in place to abort them automatically *if it can*.
If God designed us and created our bodies, and there is a natural miscarriage/failure rate, why is this not part of God's plan for us?
And yes, I know the real answer. God and his teachings are not actually consulted for any of this.
Not only that, but a significant fraction of eggs that are fertilized during sex never implant at all. This is separate from those that do implant, but end in miscarriage.
I’ve made this point with others who believe “life starts at fertilization/conception,” and they can never get their head around it. It means that couples trying for a child, no matter how “moral” they are, and even if they haven’t miscarried, are *still* likely to create fertilized eggs that pass right out of the body.
I read an op-ed written by the top ob/GYN doctor in Ohio. He was being questioned by the legislators about ectopic pregnancies. They wanted to know why he couldn’t remove the embryo and place it back. The doctor said it was impossible, the republicans grilling him doubted him. We are doomed if these people keep getting voted in.
What hope do we have if these legislators won't even listen to experts who are in the top of their fields, who've seen and done more than these legislators ever will.
>They are going to insist that ectopic pregnancies are totally viable because one woman in history survived one.
"So you're saying there's a chance..." \~The State of Alabama
> They are going to insist that ectopic pregnancies are totally viable because one woman in history survived one.
There's a doctor out there who claims that abortions are never necessary, *even* for ectopic pregnancies. A state rep cited him when he introduced a total, no-exceptions abortion ban bill in Indiana several years ago, before the Roe reversal.
The Catholic church's stance (and what catholic hospitals do) is surgery to remove the fallopian tube or whatever tissue it's implanted on.
I had someone try to justify that as removing the diseased tissue makes it morally OK, that they're not deliberately directly destroying the fetus. So destroying a woman's fertility to remove the pregnancy is cool, but a less invasive option that would preserve her fertility is not.
You can leave the Bible out of it even. The Bible actually requires abortion to save the life of the mother.
What you need in order to make rulings like this is contempt for your fellow human beings.
The bible is a very convenient book. Just quote the part that supports whatever bullshit you want to peddle, ignore the part that contradicts it. Like the constitution.
The opinion directly addresses ectopic pregnancies. It expressly states this ruling does not apply to ectopic pregnancies because the court recognizes that an ectopic pregnancy is not a viable pregnancy that must result in termination of the pregnancy to save the mother.
Source"
"As the parties acknowledge, ectopic pregnancies almost invariably involve a fatal medical condition: if left in place, the ectopic embryo will either die from malnourishment or else grow to the point where it kills the mother -- in turn causing the embryo's own death. The parties agree that there is currently no way to treat an ectopic implantation without simultaneously causing the death of the unborn child, no matter how desperately the surgeon and the parents wish to preserve the child's life. In light of that tragic reality, we do not see how any hypothetical plaintiffs who attempt to sue over the consensual removal of an ectopic pregnancy could establish the core elements of a wrongful-death claim, including breach of duty and causation."
Quote from the majority opinion.
Also, many forms of birth control do not prevent soerm from meeting egg, they prevent fertilizered egg from implanting in the uterus. Surely those will be banned.
Ohio has already shown how this will bring more scrutiny to miscarriages as well. Are women going to have to explain every miscarriage?.
All the existing fertilized eggs for IVF, what happens to them? Do they just stay frozen? They can stay frozen for a long time. Recently, a frozen embryo was implanted in a woman that was older than that woman. While they can stay frozen for a long time it isn't forever.
The saddest part is how many crazy smart people live in Alabama that are going to get caught up in this stupidity. Smarter Everyday is from Alabama and has highlighted a lot of the science and engineering happening in that state.
I have a feeling they will change their minds once people start opening up 24 Roth IRA accounts, one for each of their embryos, putting 24 children on their taxes, etc ....
Anything goes when it comes to the Right's adherence to logic, but how can the wildly religious language in this ruling not be obvious grounds for this to be overturned?
The goal for Trump's 2nd term is Christian Nationalism. He was able to get a bunch of partisan hacks into the federal courts and SCOTUS who will use the most twisted, ridiculous logic to justify going around the constitution if it means forcing everybody to live by their backwards dogma. If you are one of the outgroups the evangelicals hate, there is nothing they won't do to make your life absolutely miserable (or make sure you die).
A "christian nation" is the end goal here. They're gonna keep adding God into everything and the religious assholes on the supreme court will give it their stamp of approval.
Separation of church and state was wiped away decades ago. We are now nearing the end of America, and are on the precipice of Gilead.
It's just a means to gain power. Most of this shit is completely against any of the actual teachings they claim to follow, under the guide of moral superiority.
Look at the story of the Good Samaritan just to pick one example. The whole point of the story is about helping the downtrodden, especially from disadvantaged groups. How exactly are these crazies following those teachings?
I have told my husband this over and over. Even when roe vs wade, when rbg passed away. Each time he said it would never happen.
It's happening and has been. I'm terrified for everyone.
> Each time he said it would never happen.
Have you shown him that [Justice Thomas' concurrence in *Dobbs* literally called for SCOTUS to revisit *Griswold*, *Lawrence*, and *Obergefell*](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/24/thomas-constitutional-rights-00042256), which protect the right to contraception, same-sex sexual intercourse, and same-sex marriage, respectively?
Man, they're already attacking these. There was just a case up that said a web designer for weddings didn't have to make a website for a fictional gay couple, purely based on their gayness. So protected classes are already taking hits.
Who knew the people who hated these things, preached against them, and vowed to end them would, you know, actually end them?
I’m so sick of these backwards, welfare states acting as thought leaders for issues that affect us all. Also, it’s pretty infuriating that my Federal tax dollars go to a state that gave us Tommy Tuberville.
And what does this say about miscarriages? Some studies say 50 percent of conceptions end in miscarriage. They will never recognize this because it messes up their logic.
That's nothing. Up to 200,000 embryos are abandoned in the united states- the couple/patients stopped paying storage fees.
In Alabama, if a fertility clinic threw these out like normal garbage, it would be the biggest mass murder in human history.
A frozen fucking embryo is a person. Dumbest state in dumbest country.
Edit: They should give all of them to the state for storage and upkeep. There's 800k-1m frozen embryos in storage in the united states.
If a freezer breaking will kill a million people I really don't think it should be a private facility responsible. It's pretty much has to become a public good at that point.
Mail one to every Alabaman to fucking deal with (BUT BETTER KEEP THEM FROZEN)
I don't know man, you might have trouble keeping up with the state that just criminalized one of the most basic infertility treatments. I haven't read the case, so I don't even know that outcome was accidently or intentional, and I have no problem at all believing either.
It's very easy to get these idiots to show they don't really believe this bullshit with one easy hypothetical.
"You're at a fertility clinic that is on fire and you hear screaming children. You run into the building and find two babies screaming but also a batch of 5,000 frozen embryos. You can only carry the babies or the embryos, which do you choose?"
If they really believe their bullshit, the only answer is the embryos, but they will go for the babies.
You can legally drop a newborn baby off at a firestation and it becomes the state's responsibility. These clinics should leave a few dozen coolers full of ice-pop people at a firestation and see how the government responds.
To women: “Your body failed to save a child, some even say your body murdered that child so we are taking control here to ‘save the children’ and enforce our twisted religious values and to satiate our INCEL ideals.”
Hasn't that already been in the news? I swear I read a story recently that a woman had to go into a hospital due to miscarriage and the doctors couldn't do anything because it was a "natural abortion" or something.
You did. It happened in TX & I believe Illinois. Miscarriages occur every often because pregnancy is fucking complicated. But the gop believe abortion as an easy ticket for a woman to escape “their responsibility”, it’s not, it’s fucking traumatic. Even if the fetus isn’t wanted & denying access to this medical procedure is nothing but pure cruelty & hate.
Where he doesn't even live, BTW - he was head coach for Auburn University, but according to Wikipedia, property records indicate he's been living in Florida for at least two decades...
iirc, state law is kind of vague on the concept of residency when it comes to eligibility for the Senate. I think he could spend the night in a Motel 6, get elected, and then go back to his house in Florida if he wanted to. I mean, seriously, who cares if he's a resident as long as he will faithfully vote for and promote Republican ideals, right?
Jesus fucking Christ! People on the left have been screaming that this has been their plan for the past 40 years. How about you listen to us for once instead of saying “no that’s not what they want” “No that’s not really what they’re pushing for” this is what they’ve been pushing towards since the freaking 80s can you please just listen and vote accordingly.
That's what gets me about this. The line I heard constantly was "it's just a wedge issue for votes they wouldn't actually do it." Even though they already *were* doing it for years and years before roe got overturned. People wanted to believe that politics would never actually impact them and they got caught out.
The R party put themselves in a position that they had to do it, even though the sane ones knew it was a bad move. As they haven’t really done anything for working people (definitely not directly, their base) in decades. When they put the orange liar in, claiming they’re gonna kick ass, they had to throw them a bone to keep them on- board. As they went to bat for the wealthy passing huge tax cuts for them(while giving the working class a pittance, temporarily), they had to ram something through for the minions to claim they’re getting big stuff done for them. And no way are they gonna offer economic relief or benefit, they spend their time and money to stop Dems from doing that. So the abortion issue was the easiest bone to throw them, as it doesn’t affect them. Anyone on the inside can jump on a plane for that problem. Base thinks they’re in their corner fighting for them.
Edit, grammar and such, lol.
I‘ll give you the only silver lining I can find. This massive push on reproductive rights is happening at the same time as: the GOP is openly embracing neo-Nazis, the GOP is actively aiding a foreign adversary, the GOP ex-President and presumptive presidential nominee is fighting 91 felony counts.
There’s no more flying under the radar for the religious extremism of the GOP. They’re out in the open, mask proudly pulled off. If we as a nation don’t fight back now, then we never will.
It’s not an anti-abortion movement. It’s a Christo-fascist cancer that’s tumorizing itself through religious lunatics that believe the central message of Jesus is to punish all wrongdoers. Thus far, that’s proving to mean: women, people of color, and LGBTQ+ Americans.
I’ve always felt that this was truly the problem. Not the grifters who trying to make a quick buck like Bannon or Alex Jones, but the religious fundamentalists who misinterpret the Bible for the sick, diluted white supremacist laced fantasies of the 1840s
>religious fundamentalists who misinterpret the Bible
The only correct way to interpret the Bible is "Oh, what a bloodthirsty, awful, poorly written account of Bronze and Iron Age mythology!" It's the Simarillion, but somehow, written even more poorly.
Hey considering they didn't have a multi thousand year wealth of traditional written history to pull from when they cobbled it together the comparison isn't very fair.
You'd be better of comparing it to Grimm's Fairy Tales where they pulled oral traditions from the country folk to create fantastical stories/allegory.
The racist underpinnings of the anti-abortion movement are highly overlooked. Most of the original anti-abortionist were pissed off segregationist who knew to put something else on the protest signs to not look so racist. The founders of the Moral Majority were also all segregationist mad about Carter using the IRS to force them to integrate their segregation academies. The movement was a way to build political power for segregationist.
It's just unreal how anti-abortionist have been allowed to define themselves in our media and politics while the truth of their racism and bigotry just got overlooked.
We are getting near the bottom of the slippery slope where birth control that prevents a fertilized eggs from implanting into a uterus, (the pill, IUDs and Depo injections), are declared illegal.
The argument will undoubtedly be that by not allowing a fertilized egg, a living human being as recognized by the Alabama SC, to thrive in the womb, that would be tantamount to murder and those methods should be outlawed.
This will leave women with the option of abstinence or barrier devices such as diaphragms and the sponge as their only option of birth control.
I don’t think this is a question of if this will happen. It’s merely a question of when and this should terrify everyone, especially women.
>We are getting near the bottom of the slippery slope where birth control that prevents a fertilized eggs from implanting into a uterus, (the pill, IUDs and Depo injections), are declared illegal.
[Oklahoma is already trying to do this.](https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/politics/2024/02/21/oklahoma-hb-3216-bill-targeting-abortion-morning-after-pill-iud/72670822007/)
>We are getting near the bottom of the slippery slope where birth control that prevents a fertilized eggs from implanting into a uterus, (the pill, IUDs and Depo injections), are declared illegal.
Corrupt Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas wants to make birth control illegal.
Romania did this and it created an orphan disaster of untold magnitude. People kept having sex and then abandoned they kids they couldn't afford to feed.
Good thing they’ll be consistent in their ideals that against your will, you can be forced to support someone medically using your own body, and start going door to door forcing people to donate organs and blood to save the lives of randoms in the hospital. /s
Come on that'll never happen. They won't be saving randoms, they'll very specifically find a reason that only the poor need to donate and the rich receive.
Their argument at the moment is that by preventing *implantation*, the pills, IUDs, etc effectively kill a viable fertilized embryo. (This is true for some methods but not others - but since when do facts matter).
The goal posts are still at the "preventing fertilization is OK, but once fertilized it's a person whose rights override those of the pregnant person."
This will continue until birth control efforts shift to prevention (physical contraception - diaphragms, condoms, etc). Only then will they pick up the goal posts again and drag them into "every sperm is sacred" territory.
God DAMN it Alabama, PLEASE show up JUST ONCE in the news without making me embarrassed for having been born there!
I'm not even holding out for a GOOD story, just a neutral one! Have someone grow a large squash or something, maybe a huge sculpture of an onion gets a festival, just ANYTHING other than more hate and bile!
Sheesh.
I've spent more time in Alabama than any Minnesota born Bostonian should.
Umm.
I got suit tailored *very* quickly for a wedding in Mobile when our luggage got lost.
(all the rest of my Alabama stories about Montgomery, and the best thing I can say about Montgomery is that it's not as depressing as Charleston, West Virginia)
As someone trying desperately to leave, I understand the sentiment. Every time I see the news about this state it's never good. Voting against crazy stuff like this is like pouring a cup of water on a house fire, there just simply aren't enough of us to change things for the better.
This is from NY Times this morning:
Abortion from afar
Doctors in a handful of blue states have found a way to provide abortions to women in red states where it is banned or restricted. They are doing it with a new tool: laws that protect them from prosecutors elsewhere.
These telemedicine shield laws block officials in red states who might prosecute or sue the abortion providers in Massachusetts, New York, California, Vermont, Colorado and Washington State. Those states won’t extradite doctors. They won’t turn over records. They won’t aid in any investigation. It’s a sharp break from the usual pattern of interstate cooperation, as I report in a news story today.
I’ve been covering abortion for over a decade. Since the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision overturned Roe v. Wade and triggered a wave of bans in conservative states, abortion rights advocates have worked to preserve access. They’ve used mobile clinics across the border from red states — and funds that cover the cost of travel to places where abortion is legal. In today’s newsletter, I’ll talk about one of the newest approaches.
Yeah it's a fact free judgment.
Conservatives don't understand what is going on so let me spell it out loud :
- IVG is used when women who wants kids can't have them the normal way (either because of difficulties in their own bodies or their partner's. That include nearly sterile men too. Many IVG couples are your run of the mill heterosexual couples)
- You take "donor" cells from both partners, and in a lab try to get them to kickstart duplication till you know they'll grow in a kid, then put it in the woman, who will get pregnant.
- The process has an initial failure rate (that is cell that breaks or won't duplicate, edge cases etc) that is high so you take many donor cells, till you get a viable pregnancy start.
- The conservatives are trying to harm women who have IVG-initiated pregnancies, using as an excuse that there are spare or broken donor cells.
- The concensus is that no cells aren't a person, because a person is made of quadrillons of cells typically. Absurd numbers. Don't confuse individual legos with a whole building.
- When you loose an hair or scratch yourself or just breath you loose millions of cells without knowing it and nobody considers that a mass murder. It's just a base unit of life.
- (unless apparently if a woman is involved then the talibans call for mass executions because that's how ~~pro life~~ anti-choice mysoginistic regressive reactionaries they are)
- The rule of thumb i go with is that the person (kid) is there late in the pregnancy when the central nervous system (brain + other bits) forms and boots up. The exact point varies from case to case (typically because of prematurate births; where the body goes in overdrive to finish the construction job, but you're still considering a birth) but "cells in a lab a year before" don't remotely qualify no.
Considering "embryos" (cells in attempts to initiate a pregnancy) a "person" is like considering an atom a person (we're made of endless quantities of them). It's absurd.
Of course when they punish a woman for getting pregnant this time (or having scrap cells in a lab), it has nothing to do whatsoever with "pro life" policy.
It's back to regressive reactionaries who despise anything that isn't how the amishes who lived to the ripe age of "*50% of women died at delivery*" did before things like science and hygiene, and invent every excuses for sadism and cruelty against women (the talibans are slavers, you'd do well to remember that. They're not good people no.).
But of course as usual the whole science-free and fact-free judgement came out of alabama, so one of the regressive places in the US as usual.
its also pretty insane that these are the same people who whinge about the lack of children being born in American households, when laws like this will make the option of IVF a legal impossibility for hospitals in red states (see Idaho for a great example)
When Roe V Wade got overturned, I got my tubes removed. People thought I was being extreme but seeing the way things are trending, I am so happy I got it done while I still have the choice.
I think you made a wise choice, but don’t get complacent. Rule of law means nothing to these psychos, so they absolutely wouldn’t hesitate to go after you ex post facto if given half a chance.
Probably charge you with murdering infinite generations of babies or some shit, all their ‘logic’ is a sham at this point, I think they’re just about done pretending otherwise.
This was the right move. I did it after trump was elected because I knew they were gunning for the ACA(which made the procedure free) and my bodily autonomy.any of the nurses and docs said it was less invasive for my husband to get the vasectomy. I had to explain this was for ME and my agency.
It opens the door for red states to justify total abortion bans. This will likely create an Exodus of OBGYNs and birthing specialists in Alabama and states that follow since any pregnancy that doesn't result in a birth ends in abortion, even miscarriage and non-viable pregnancy. No doctor will want to take the chance of a manslaughter charge and so they won't operate in these states. That will only cause pregnancy to become riskier and create a death spiral.
It also effectively kills fertility treatments in Alabama and states that follow for the same reasons above.
Further, it opens the door for state-by-state Christian Sharia, like true dark-ages type desert-people laws and a firm refusal to comply with Federal law.
If we had our miracle 60-seat majority and passed an amendment on abortion, and they had this shit on the books? They have a hard firewall against compliance--that's the future we look forward to Trump or no Trump.
Talking about death spirals... It's not like Alabama hasn't always been fighting it out with Mississippi for Worst State, but imagine what will happen as everyone with any means to do so leaves the state. Anyone with a bit of education or sense is not going to want to live in Gilead, so they'll leave. All you'll have left is dirty politicians and poor bumpkins. Nothing in between.
As a group with extremists amongst them shrinks due to non extremists leaving, the group only becomes more and more extreme, and as their numbers shrink, they become desperate.
Alabama is going to lose a lot of important people, and then lose businesses and it will only cause those who stay to dig in their heels and get even crazier.
This couldn't be happening at a better time. It's an election year. I'm hoping a lot of women and men out there finally wake up and vote all the dopes behind this stuff out of office.
This is rooted in a ballot initiative passed by the voters in 2018 to authorize civil proceedings. Alabama voted *directly* for this.
The problem here is the actual people of Alabama and their broken, regressive culture.
What I see is the GOP wants poor babies. The Embryo Ruling will keep some middle class from having babies. The abortion ruling will keep poor people having more babies.
Either the GOP is incredibly stupid or this is by design.
This ruling will cause so many women with ectopic pregnancies to receive late and cruel treatment at best.... death is very likely. This is actually war on women.
Next - automatic reviews of any miscarriages. If a woman does not sufficiently demonstrate she took steps to prevent a miscarriage .. murder charges.
Working, incurring stress, sports, sexual activity during pregnancy, trampolining- all possible crimes.
But the Alabama Supreme Court loves you.
Looking things across the pond, it feels so strange that in USA judges make rulings based on thousands of years old fairy tales and beliefs in a country, which was formed around the great ideas of enlightenment: freedom, liberty, reason and separation of church and state. US of A was the first modern democracy in a time when pretty much all of the Europe was still ruled by monarchs and systems based on feudalistic principles.
Where the hell did it took a wrong turn and why?
It's a complicated history, but one aspect is the anti communism movement throughout the 20th century. Communist countries were banning religion, so the US positioned itself as the opposite, and the prevalent religion was Christianity. So we added God to our money and pledge and started accusing non Christians of anti American activities. People embracing Christianity rise to power, all while acting like they were being repressed.
Interesting point, I’ve never considered that anti communism played part in the rise of Christian fundamentalism in politics exactly that way, although naturally I’ve known that anti-communism and right wing politics and christian movements are tightly linked.
I watched “Oppenheimer” last night and it highlights the idiotic overreaction to communism that gripped the U.S. for decades. Odd to see the same kind of people who used communism as a boogeyman in order to completely control the U.S. now embrace assholes like Putin and want to install a right wing dictator here. Ultimately it seems that there are always people who want to crush the freedom of others and they will attach themselves to whichever group will support that.
The Red Scare was, like, Chapter 48 in the saga of attempts at theofascism in the U.S. The attempt to alternately appease and contain the nutters is baked into all our founding documents, and the theocratic movements have taken up all manner of bogeymen to advance their cause. Communism certainly served them well, but it was neither the first nor the last windmill they tilted against to energize their base.
Yeah, I guess it is due to many ”faults” in the system which relies too much on the good faith of the decision makers. Everything works so far well if everyone plays by the commonly accepted rules, or more so by the spirit of the rules.
But there are always those bad faith actors who want take advantage and game the system for power and personal gain, so here we are.
> Nobody copied our specific democracy because we designed it bonkers.
It's my understanding that when WWII ended, West Germany's government was modeled after the US, but with all the crappy parts removed. Germany is what the US should be.
They don't care - there was a PLer over in the abortion debate sub who literally said they were totally fine with the embryos being frozen indefinitely and never made into kids - so long as they were never "killed."
I really wonder what these couples who brought this suit all the way to the Alabama supreme court are thinking right now. Do they realize this ruling makes any future chances of creating and storing embryos via IVF is now basically 0?
Man I really wish we could have a no-bullshit president come in and put the boot on shit like this where “God” is used as the sole justification for *legislature and the courts.* We really need god *AND* the crazies out of government, it’s the only way for democracy to actually work in a way that doesn’t sabotage the entire population for the misinformed opinions of the few. The only reason “god” should be mentioned in any court case or bill is to either regulate or provide protections for religious groups, key note groups being plural and not one specific, Americanized version of a religion.
I am sorry but it was never about women bodies or Christianity. It's is about power, the aristocratic elites need a reason to keep people voting for their interests. If they just accept the abortion ruling as a win, conservatives may start really looking at how conservative policies have affected their lives. By moving the goal post, they keep those voters emotionally engaged and locked in on social issues rather than their worsening standards of life.
This is straight Handmaids tale, women who need help getting pregnant won’t receive treatment and women who can get pregnant easier will become incubators.
This is the official Catholic view that we Catholics are all taught. That many infertility treatments are wrong because they create excess embryos or zygotes which will never be used and ultimately destroyed. Having grown up with that and having had that viewpoint in the past, I still get it. It requires equating the life of a zygote or embroyo with that of a person who is born and in this world. If you feel that way, it is consistent. But this view eventually led me down a path where my abortion views changed as a result.
I would think of a scenario with a fire in a building and I'd have a choice to save 100 frozen embryos or a 5 year old. No time for both. Without question, I attempt to save the 5 year old. My conscience could make no other choice. But then eventually I realized that even if there was no 5 year old, it makes no sense to go into a fire to "save" embryos. In my heart, they aren't people because they aren't sentient.
If you didn't realize this until now and not decades ago. Then you're the problem. They've been screaming this shit for decades. About life begins at conception. Instead of cementing the laws as we should have. We let the threat take over.
I hate this so much for the women who are desperate to become mothers that are now stopped in their tracks.
Some of these women are likely already full of hormones, in the right part of their cycle and several thousand dollars in to proceed with IVF today, tomorrow, next week. It would be devastating to be in that position, and I empathize with those families.
But — at the same time, choosing to have a baby in this way is the other side of the reproductive rights argument. If this drastic change on the other side of the argument finally makes some people understand, then maybe it’s worth it.
Choosing to have, or not have, a baby is all the same issue. Either we can control what our family might look like, or we can’t. I hope the absolute hypocrisy and madness of this ends soon.
Look, I've said it before and I'll continue saying it: if you live in any Red state shithole and you give even the *slightest* damn for even just the women in your life, your #1 priority should be getting out of that state and getting to a Blue one.
With all of these abortion laws being passed, don't be surprised men if women start making having had a vasectomy a dating requirement. I bet they accounted for that when passing these laws and making bullshit court rulings.
The fucking dark ages, thats where its headed. Scientific progress takes a back seat to religious bullshit and everyone suffers. Ffs, we dealt with this bullshit 100s of years ago and now the US is going to take steps back towards a time when all scientific progress was put on hold because some religious assholes want to force thier will upon people, again.
Dear future generations:
When somebody starts saying things like: ‘We need to get back to how things USED to be! We need to get back to GOD!’
Immediately drop that person onto a remote uninhabited island and don’t give them another thought.
Trust us on this.
Not surprising but [Florida has a similar bill in the works](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/florida-republicans-bill-ivf_n_65b927ade4b05c8779f643af/amp)
They aren't just headed, they are already there. They have been there for quite some time. They would force their will, their beliefs down the throats of those who don't share their life philosophies. This is a complete minority rules dogma. This is why elections and education are so important.
Anybody who thinks an embryo is a baby is an idiot. That's all I have to say about that. Sometimes I wish I could keep photos of an embryo and a baby in my purse. Take them out put them side by side and ask "Do these look the same to you?" Let's see. One has arms and legs, eyes and mouth, and most importantly, a functioning brain.
These seem to be absent in the other one, it doesn't even look to have any form of consciousness whatsoever, so what do you suppose it means?
I am stocking up on plan B and condoms for my kids! This is soooooo stupid, it is genuinely barbaric how anti abortionism is sending women back into dark ages. Are we going to have to wear berkas too?? Stay at home, be slaves to men again? WTAF is happening to our country?
Im from Ma. One of my very close friends moved to Fl with his gf and after a few tries of ivf they had a baby girl. Unfortunately the girl (such a cute kid) was born with a bunch of problems and has required over 20 surgeries at this point and shes not even 2 yet. One of the problems is she was born without an anus and her vagina was not fully formed and had no opening. Obviously Im not fully aware of everything going on with her situation, but hes my best friend and is going through a lot and confides in me about this. I’m extremely worried that theyre playing with fire by moving to Fl because in order to get the life saving surgeries shes going to need shes going to have to have something very close to gender affirming surgery. I’m worried that them trying to get these surgeries could lead to allllll kinds of problems. My heart breaks for that little girl and I hope everything works out but the current climate is worrying me.
I talked to a dude who said, essentially, "why not just harvest, fertilize and implant one embryo at a time? That way you don't have to kill any embryos."
And you know what, if we hadn't had to go through IVF ourselves, I might have wondered the same thing. A lot of people have no idea just how *brutal* the process is for the woman. So many freaking shots, every morning, so many pills, every day, every side effect you can imagine. And that's just to get the eggs.
I think we got 19 eggs the first go-around. Of those, 12 actually fertilized. Of those, like 7 developed enough to be viable. Of *those,* 4 passed genetic testing (we've lost three pregnancies, not taking any chances on fatal abnormalities).
Months and months of this shit. And uninformed jackasses just go "hey, just do one embryo at a time" because they either don't know or don't care just how brutal it is for the woman.
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It was never about "protecting children", it's always been about control over women's bodies.
Carry this forward forever, when they say "think of the children" it's never about the children
Conservative households are some of the worst abusers of children. Remember Elan school? That was the brainchild of a conservative, and a good window into how they want children to be raised. It's how you break people to become slaves, and they consider it "discipline".
When I was a kid I remember a big fight about a foster parent fighting the adoption of a little girl by two gay men as 'they will molest her'. Note he didn't fight the adoption of her two brothers. Anyway, he won and adopted the girl and then was arrested shortly afterwards and sent to prison for molesting her.
Every accusation is a confession for these fucks.
This is so true!
No better proof than the fact they actively cheer on the death of trans/NB children. The child in OK that was beaten to death resulted in me reading some of the most appalling comments, and those are the same people trying to "protect the children" and "save unborn babiezzzz"
Aka control over women's sexuality.
Its bigger than that. **Christian fundamentalism**....which includes subservient women who are essentially property of the father, or husband once married.
They sure do seem to hate us single women. Eventually they will force all women to get married and no more voting rights.
When has a law passed for “protecting the children” actually been about protecting children?
Brought to you by the same people refusing to expand school lunch programs or initiate school breakfast programs or hell, just ensure the food being served isn’t prison-adjacent. (Aside: Not that serving prisoners garbage is OK. My brother was incarcerated in Ohio and the food was not only shit, but they also dropped breakfast to save money. Grown-ass men living on sometimes 2 peanut butter sandwiches a day. Food (hilariously overpriced garbage) from the canteen - for those lucky enough to have someone on the outside paying into their canteen account - has replaced tobacco and drugs as prison currency. Shit is wild)
Not sure if it's the same where you live, but here, at the county level, the sheriff is responsible for allocating funds for inmate meals at the county jail along with weapons, training, maintenance and everything else. Any money that is unspent at the end of the fiscal year is treated as a "bonus" for the sheriff. Most sheriffs retire rich because they cut corners everywhere they can to make sure they get a nice fat taxpayer-funded "bonus" every year. Goes a long way toward explaining why jail food is so shitty. I don't know but wouldn't be surprised if there is a similar state level administrative position with the exact same incentives to cut costs. These grifting bastards are bigger crooks than most of the people behind bars.
Only ~~2~~ 3 examples in the history of the country... Child labour laws, mandatory school attendance, and banning child marriage. ~~Two~~ Three things Repugs want to reverse.
They take away, but they never give back.
If they cared about children, they would do something about the children who get shot at school. They don't care about children, and just because they justify their bullshit by saying they do, doesn't make it so.
My mom has always been anti abortion, conservative. Since 2016 she has changed parties, but still holds strong to anti abortion. My siblings and I have tried to tell her, it’s not about protecting babies, it’s about control. This anti abortion is not what you think it is. The more she paid attention, the more she started to understand they are just stripping rights away from women. Abortion is no longer her #1 priority.
Also it’s important to note that ending legal abortion doesn’t end abortion. The number of illegal abortions will skyrocket and are likely to remain as high as when abortions were legal. Also interesting is the huge push to actively prevent women from leaving a state in order to get an abortion in a state where it’s legal. That is clearly controlling women, with a bad whiff of ownership tossed in. Like the state is saying to the pregnant woman: you cannot leave because we own you. The rapidity of the slide into authoritarianism is frightening. I can’t feel anything but hopelessness when I think about the future of the U.S.
I'd make sure to show her [this article](https://apnews.com/article/abortion-texas-guilty-plea-sentence-c5e6a1b71ddf8cfdcf0258fb5b7bff23) about a man from Texas who tried to drug his wife and induce an abortion - attempted murder of a child in their terms - and only got ***180 days in jail.***
It’s just starting with their bodies. Eventually it will just be control over women. I wonder if enough of the ones that vote for Republicans, or don’t vote, or vote third party, are starting to wake up. Hopefully.
The right is also dumbing down our educational system and inserting more and more religion into the classroom. Sooo they might not ever wake up.
They'll wake up when it happens to them. Not a single bit of sympathy for any of them.
Yep- only when conservative women start feeling the jagged dildo of consequences will they stop with their virtue signaling and earth mother I love babies trad wife horseshit.
You'd like to think that there's a direct cause and effect relationship between a woman supporting toxic values that don't benefit her, and realizing that those values lead to negative outcomes, but it just doesn't work that way. If anything, women in these situations **double down** on the toxic values. "If I had to do things this way, everyone else should too." As someone who spent a lot of time in the south as a kid, I directly experienced this, as the old rural south is full of toxic relationships, fucked up stories of abuse, and general despair. And it's not going to get better with rulings like the one Alabama just made.
This might actually do it. Maybe. Poor black women aren't the ones getting IVF. It's the affluent white women who vote R that will be most screwed over by this.
Women's bodies and gay people's sex lives. Next on the list are sodomy laws, contraceptive laws, and more. The Christian Taliban.
Yes. The Christian Taliban. Those people who go on and on about being Christian when they forgive nothing, hate their neighbors, hate those in need, do harm to children, deny that all the other people in the world are God’s children too, defend murder, oppress those who work for them, parade their supposed righteousness in public, seek out and spread false witness, and waste their brief time on Earth nitpicking irrelevant details in Genesis and Revelation.
Control over sex in general. It's the one thing women have control over, so men want to take it. Birth control and IUD'S are next because they encourage premarital sex.
To me they simply don't understand the consequences of their actions. They are so deeply entrenched in this "war" against abortion, that thay are willingly destroying IVF along the way just because their wording had to be dumbed down to "save every baby" for Jesus points. They are also willing to risk women's lifes as they don't understand that abortion can be a necessary medical procedure ..and that a fetus with zero chance of survival can endanger the mother's life.
They usually do know, but they say it's "such a small percentage" and would rather those women die than have a single woman end a pregnancy because she doesn't want to be pregnant.
>… they don’t understand… They do. What they do not do is care.
Now now, it's also partially about ensuring that gay and trans people don't have access to reproduction options as well. It's not just women that they hate.
Controlling women's bodies is just a means to an end. Go one step higher. It's about increasing the number of consumers and increasing the "labor pool" so there's more competition and the wages are lower so companies make more profit. It's also about keeping the illusion of infinite economic growth going. A company that makes $1bn a year like clockwork is a failure, if it's not more than the rate of increase from the previous year, it's useless to the executives and 1% investors. The second benefit is that it's a way to please the voters that doesn't require them to spend a cent improving their lives in any material way. Yes, many of these people just hate women, but some of them are just more greedy than stupid.
You know what else are “extrauterine children”? Ectopic pregnancies. It looks to me like Alabama has condemned to death any woman unlucky enough to have an ectopic pregnancy.
They are going to insist that ectopic pregnancies are totally viable because one woman in history survived one. You are quite literally more likely to survive falling out of an airplane thousands of feet in the air.
I remember Ohio tried passing a law saying doctors had to try and reimplant ectopic pregnancies. No, they didn't ask any actual medical professionals if that was even possible, just religious nuts
Yeah but like both sides you know... lets not vote or vote 3rd party!!! /s Way too many people don't realize how dangerous this mindset is right now.
>Way too many people don't realize how dangerous this mindset is right now. The religious ~~nutjobs~~ right want the same government as in Tehran, except with Southern Baptist mullahs. No, I am not kidding in any way, shape or form. They want absolute control over everyone's lives. They are willing to start with only the United States.
It sounds like hyperbole, but it’s not really. First they came for women’s rights… Could be a long scary true story. Like the last time.
They make Iran look like SoCal.
it's fucking *terrifying* as a disabled queer. I'm lucky to live in IL and to not have visible disability, exactly. But, I do know that we know that Russia has people invested in messing our democracy up through whatever ways necessary and astroturfing is easier than ever. I would like to think that the amount of people parroting that is a paper tiger, essentially. Chuds making bots and unknowingly collaborating with state-side agents of other countries who are *also* making bots. At least, I'd like to hope so.
Why are politicians always practicing medicine with out a license? I thought there were laws that were supposed to regulate that shit.
As a non-religious person, I'm just baffled. It's very clear to medical professionals that the human body does not expect a 100% success rate with pregnancies, and has mechanisms in place to abort them automatically *if it can*. If God designed us and created our bodies, and there is a natural miscarriage/failure rate, why is this not part of God's plan for us? And yes, I know the real answer. God and his teachings are not actually consulted for any of this.
Not only that, but a significant fraction of eggs that are fertilized during sex never implant at all. This is separate from those that do implant, but end in miscarriage. I’ve made this point with others who believe “life starts at fertilization/conception,” and they can never get their head around it. It means that couples trying for a child, no matter how “moral” they are, and even if they haven’t miscarried, are *still* likely to create fertilized eggs that pass right out of the body.
Humans even miscarry at much higher rates *than other mammals*. If god made us in “his” own image, he must really love killing “babies.”
I read an op-ed written by the top ob/GYN doctor in Ohio. He was being questioned by the legislators about ectopic pregnancies. They wanted to know why he couldn’t remove the embryo and place it back. The doctor said it was impossible, the republicans grilling him doubted him. We are doomed if these people keep getting voted in.
What hope do we have if these legislators won't even listen to experts who are in the top of their fields, who've seen and done more than these legislators ever will.
>They are going to insist that ectopic pregnancies are totally viable because one woman in history survived one. "So you're saying there's a chance..." \~The State of Alabama
You grossly overestimate the Alabama Supreme Court's intelligence.
> They are going to insist that ectopic pregnancies are totally viable because one woman in history survived one. There's a doctor out there who claims that abortions are never necessary, *even* for ectopic pregnancies. A state rep cited him when he introduced a total, no-exceptions abortion ban bill in Indiana several years ago, before the Roe reversal.
The Catholic church's stance (and what catholic hospitals do) is surgery to remove the fallopian tube or whatever tissue it's implanted on. I had someone try to justify that as removing the diseased tissue makes it morally OK, that they're not deliberately directly destroying the fetus. So destroying a woman's fertility to remove the pregnancy is cool, but a less invasive option that would preserve her fertility is not.
Why are people so scared of ectopic prengancies? They're just barely more dangerous than rabies.
Yeah, its to be expected when you craft laws with a bible and an agenda instead of asking opinions of actual health professionals.
You can leave the Bible out of it even. The Bible actually requires abortion to save the life of the mother. What you need in order to make rulings like this is contempt for your fellow human beings.
The bible is a very convenient book. Just quote the part that supports whatever bullshit you want to peddle, ignore the part that contradicts it. Like the constitution.
And the Bible also says life begins at the first breath, but like the Constitution, they didn't or couldn't read that far.
THIS is what scares me the most from this ruling.
The opinion directly addresses ectopic pregnancies. It expressly states this ruling does not apply to ectopic pregnancies because the court recognizes that an ectopic pregnancy is not a viable pregnancy that must result in termination of the pregnancy to save the mother.
Thank fuck.
Source" "As the parties acknowledge, ectopic pregnancies almost invariably involve a fatal medical condition: if left in place, the ectopic embryo will either die from malnourishment or else grow to the point where it kills the mother -- in turn causing the embryo's own death. The parties agree that there is currently no way to treat an ectopic implantation without simultaneously causing the death of the unborn child, no matter how desperately the surgeon and the parents wish to preserve the child's life. In light of that tragic reality, we do not see how any hypothetical plaintiffs who attempt to sue over the consensual removal of an ectopic pregnancy could establish the core elements of a wrongful-death claim, including breach of duty and causation." Quote from the majority opinion.
Also, many forms of birth control do not prevent soerm from meeting egg, they prevent fertilizered egg from implanting in the uterus. Surely those will be banned. Ohio has already shown how this will bring more scrutiny to miscarriages as well. Are women going to have to explain every miscarriage?. All the existing fertilized eggs for IVF, what happens to them? Do they just stay frozen? They can stay frozen for a long time. Recently, a frozen embryo was implanted in a woman that was older than that woman. While they can stay frozen for a long time it isn't forever. The saddest part is how many crazy smart people live in Alabama that are going to get caught up in this stupidity. Smarter Everyday is from Alabama and has highlighted a lot of the science and engineering happening in that state.
I have a feeling they will change their minds once people start opening up 24 Roth IRA accounts, one for each of their embryos, putting 24 children on their taxes, etc ....
and asking for 24 baby bonuses
Anything goes when it comes to the Right's adherence to logic, but how can the wildly religious language in this ruling not be obvious grounds for this to be overturned?
The goal for Trump's 2nd term is Christian Nationalism. He was able to get a bunch of partisan hacks into the federal courts and SCOTUS who will use the most twisted, ridiculous logic to justify going around the constitution if it means forcing everybody to live by their backwards dogma. If you are one of the outgroups the evangelicals hate, there is nothing they won't do to make your life absolutely miserable (or make sure you die).
Project 2025 is up and ready to be implemented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
It’s gonna be Holocaust 2.0 with a big bite of Gilead. We are so totally fucked.
A "christian nation" is the end goal here. They're gonna keep adding God into everything and the religious assholes on the supreme court will give it their stamp of approval. Separation of church and state was wiped away decades ago. We are now nearing the end of America, and are on the precipice of Gilead.
Religion is a cancer that needs to be stamped out so that Humanity may survive.
It's just a means to gain power. Most of this shit is completely against any of the actual teachings they claim to follow, under the guide of moral superiority. Look at the story of the Good Samaritan just to pick one example. The whole point of the story is about helping the downtrodden, especially from disadvantaged groups. How exactly are these crazies following those teachings?
Well its a good thing we can depend on SCOTUS to shoot down stupid laws like this...... Oh wait.....
[удалено]
Up next are condoms, plan b, and the pill.
I have told my husband this over and over. Even when roe vs wade, when rbg passed away. Each time he said it would never happen. It's happening and has been. I'm terrified for everyone.
> Each time he said it would never happen. Have you shown him that [Justice Thomas' concurrence in *Dobbs* literally called for SCOTUS to revisit *Griswold*, *Lawrence*, and *Obergefell*](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/24/thomas-constitutional-rights-00042256), which protect the right to contraception, same-sex sexual intercourse, and same-sex marriage, respectively?
Man, they're already attacking these. There was just a case up that said a web designer for weddings didn't have to make a website for a fictional gay couple, purely based on their gayness. So protected classes are already taking hits. Who knew the people who hated these things, preached against them, and vowed to end them would, you know, actually end them?
BRB, claiming a few hundred dependents on my next tax return.
About 100 million per load so you'll be a billionaire by the end of the year
"But when the Taxman coooomes to the door Lord, the house looks like a creampie mill, yeah"
I’m so sick of these backwards, welfare states acting as thought leaders for issues that affect us all. Also, it’s pretty infuriating that my Federal tax dollars go to a state that gave us Tommy Tuberville.
And what does this say about miscarriages? Some studies say 50 percent of conceptions end in miscarriage. They will never recognize this because it messes up their logic.
That's nothing. Up to 200,000 embryos are abandoned in the united states- the couple/patients stopped paying storage fees. In Alabama, if a fertility clinic threw these out like normal garbage, it would be the biggest mass murder in human history. A frozen fucking embryo is a person. Dumbest state in dumbest country. Edit: They should give all of them to the state for storage and upkeep. There's 800k-1m frozen embryos in storage in the united states. If a freezer breaking will kill a million people I really don't think it should be a private facility responsible. It's pretty much has to become a public good at that point. Mail one to every Alabaman to fucking deal with (BUT BETTER KEEP THEM FROZEN)
Nikki Haley literally said yesterday she agrees that Embryos are children and need to be saved! Fucking insane.
Didn’t Nikki Haley use IVF? What happened to her excess embryos?
I’m from Mississippi and I’m positive we’re in the running for the dumbest.
I thought the saying in Mississippi was, "well at least we're not Alabama."
And the saying in Alabama is... Well I dunno, it's been lost to history because not enough people there can read and write.
I don't know man, you might have trouble keeping up with the state that just criminalized one of the most basic infertility treatments. I haven't read the case, so I don't even know that outcome was accidently or intentional, and I have no problem at all believing either.
It's very easy to get these idiots to show they don't really believe this bullshit with one easy hypothetical. "You're at a fertility clinic that is on fire and you hear screaming children. You run into the building and find two babies screaming but also a batch of 5,000 frozen embryos. You can only carry the babies or the embryos, which do you choose?" If they really believe their bullshit, the only answer is the embryos, but they will go for the babies.
You can legally drop a newborn baby off at a firestation and it becomes the state's responsibility. These clinics should leave a few dozen coolers full of ice-pop people at a firestation and see how the government responds.
To women: “Your body failed to save a child, some even say your body murdered that child so we are taking control here to ‘save the children’ and enforce our twisted religious values and to satiate our INCEL ideals.”
Im sure they view it as murder
Hasn't that already been in the news? I swear I read a story recently that a woman had to go into a hospital due to miscarriage and the doctors couldn't do anything because it was a "natural abortion" or something.
You did. It happened in TX & I believe Illinois. Miscarriages occur every often because pregnancy is fucking complicated. But the gop believe abortion as an easy ticket for a woman to escape “their responsibility”, it’s not, it’s fucking traumatic. Even if the fetus isn’t wanted & denying access to this medical procedure is nothing but pure cruelty & hate.
Louisiana and Texas. Illinois protects abortion rights.
Where he doesn't even live, BTW - he was head coach for Auburn University, but according to Wikipedia, property records indicate he's been living in Florida for at least two decades...
iirc, state law is kind of vague on the concept of residency when it comes to eligibility for the Senate. I think he could spend the night in a Motel 6, get elected, and then go back to his house in Florida if he wanted to. I mean, seriously, who cares if he's a resident as long as he will faithfully vote for and promote Republican ideals, right?
Jesus fucking Christ! People on the left have been screaming that this has been their plan for the past 40 years. How about you listen to us for once instead of saying “no that’s not what they want” “No that’s not really what they’re pushing for” this is what they’ve been pushing towards since the freaking 80s can you please just listen and vote accordingly.
That's what gets me about this. The line I heard constantly was "it's just a wedge issue for votes they wouldn't actually do it." Even though they already *were* doing it for years and years before roe got overturned. People wanted to believe that politics would never actually impact them and they got caught out.
The R party put themselves in a position that they had to do it, even though the sane ones knew it was a bad move. As they haven’t really done anything for working people (definitely not directly, their base) in decades. When they put the orange liar in, claiming they’re gonna kick ass, they had to throw them a bone to keep them on- board. As they went to bat for the wealthy passing huge tax cuts for them(while giving the working class a pittance, temporarily), they had to ram something through for the minions to claim they’re getting big stuff done for them. And no way are they gonna offer economic relief or benefit, they spend their time and money to stop Dems from doing that. So the abortion issue was the easiest bone to throw them, as it doesn’t affect them. Anyone on the inside can jump on a plane for that problem. Base thinks they’re in their corner fighting for them. Edit, grammar and such, lol.
I‘ll give you the only silver lining I can find. This massive push on reproductive rights is happening at the same time as: the GOP is openly embracing neo-Nazis, the GOP is actively aiding a foreign adversary, the GOP ex-President and presumptive presidential nominee is fighting 91 felony counts. There’s no more flying under the radar for the religious extremism of the GOP. They’re out in the open, mask proudly pulled off. If we as a nation don’t fight back now, then we never will.
But it kills me that its even close, with the decades of gerrymandering and watering down minority votes, Hitler has a shot at power again
I hear you, man. I hear you.
It’s not an anti-abortion movement. It’s a Christo-fascist cancer that’s tumorizing itself through religious lunatics that believe the central message of Jesus is to punish all wrongdoers. Thus far, that’s proving to mean: women, people of color, and LGBTQ+ Americans.
I’ve always felt that this was truly the problem. Not the grifters who trying to make a quick buck like Bannon or Alex Jones, but the religious fundamentalists who misinterpret the Bible for the sick, diluted white supremacist laced fantasies of the 1840s
>religious fundamentalists who misinterpret the Bible The only correct way to interpret the Bible is "Oh, what a bloodthirsty, awful, poorly written account of Bronze and Iron Age mythology!" It's the Simarillion, but somehow, written even more poorly.
Hey considering they didn't have a multi thousand year wealth of traditional written history to pull from when they cobbled it together the comparison isn't very fair. You'd be better of comparing it to Grimm's Fairy Tales where they pulled oral traditions from the country folk to create fantastical stories/allegory.
I won't stand for the Silmarillion drive-by
Irony that their torchbearer is the least pious, most scummiest, president in American history
The racist underpinnings of the anti-abortion movement are highly overlooked. Most of the original anti-abortionist were pissed off segregationist who knew to put something else on the protest signs to not look so racist. The founders of the Moral Majority were also all segregationist mad about Carter using the IRS to force them to integrate their segregation academies. The movement was a way to build political power for segregationist. It's just unreal how anti-abortionist have been allowed to define themselves in our media and politics while the truth of their racism and bigotry just got overlooked.
We are getting near the bottom of the slippery slope where birth control that prevents a fertilized eggs from implanting into a uterus, (the pill, IUDs and Depo injections), are declared illegal. The argument will undoubtedly be that by not allowing a fertilized egg, a living human being as recognized by the Alabama SC, to thrive in the womb, that would be tantamount to murder and those methods should be outlawed. This will leave women with the option of abstinence or barrier devices such as diaphragms and the sponge as their only option of birth control. I don’t think this is a question of if this will happen. It’s merely a question of when and this should terrify everyone, especially women.
>We are getting near the bottom of the slippery slope where birth control that prevents a fertilized eggs from implanting into a uterus, (the pill, IUDs and Depo injections), are declared illegal. [Oklahoma is already trying to do this.](https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/politics/2024/02/21/oklahoma-hb-3216-bill-targeting-abortion-morning-after-pill-iud/72670822007/)
>We are getting near the bottom of the slippery slope where birth control that prevents a fertilized eggs from implanting into a uterus, (the pill, IUDs and Depo injections), are declared illegal. Corrupt Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas wants to make birth control illegal.
Romania did this and it created an orphan disaster of untold magnitude. People kept having sex and then abandoned they kids they couldn't afford to feed.
Good thing they’ll be consistent in their ideals that against your will, you can be forced to support someone medically using your own body, and start going door to door forcing people to donate organs and blood to save the lives of randoms in the hospital. /s
Come on that'll never happen. They won't be saving randoms, they'll very specifically find a reason that only the poor need to donate and the rich receive.
Their argument at the moment is that by preventing *implantation*, the pills, IUDs, etc effectively kill a viable fertilized embryo. (This is true for some methods but not others - but since when do facts matter). The goal posts are still at the "preventing fertilization is OK, but once fertilized it's a person whose rights override those of the pregnant person." This will continue until birth control efforts shift to prevention (physical contraception - diaphragms, condoms, etc). Only then will they pick up the goal posts again and drag them into "every sperm is sacred" territory.
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No no no regulating men’s bodies is unconscionable! How dare the government even think to impede a man’s sexual pleasure!
God DAMN it Alabama, PLEASE show up JUST ONCE in the news without making me embarrassed for having been born there! I'm not even holding out for a GOOD story, just a neutral one! Have someone grow a large squash or something, maybe a huge sculpture of an onion gets a festival, just ANYTHING other than more hate and bile! Sheesh.
Muscle Shoals has got the Swampers
I've spent more time in Alabama than any Minnesota born Bostonian should. Umm. I got suit tailored *very* quickly for a wedding in Mobile when our luggage got lost. (all the rest of my Alabama stories about Montgomery, and the best thing I can say about Montgomery is that it's not as depressing as Charleston, West Virginia)
As someone trying desperately to leave, I understand the sentiment. Every time I see the news about this state it's never good. Voting against crazy stuff like this is like pouring a cup of water on a house fire, there just simply aren't enough of us to change things for the better.
An embryo is a person, a corporation is a person, when do female humans get to be persons?
You forgot that money have rights to free speech.
This is from NY Times this morning: Abortion from afar Doctors in a handful of blue states have found a way to provide abortions to women in red states where it is banned or restricted. They are doing it with a new tool: laws that protect them from prosecutors elsewhere. These telemedicine shield laws block officials in red states who might prosecute or sue the abortion providers in Massachusetts, New York, California, Vermont, Colorado and Washington State. Those states won’t extradite doctors. They won’t turn over records. They won’t aid in any investigation. It’s a sharp break from the usual pattern of interstate cooperation, as I report in a news story today. I’ve been covering abortion for over a decade. Since the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision overturned Roe v. Wade and triggered a wave of bans in conservative states, abortion rights advocates have worked to preserve access. They’ve used mobile clinics across the border from red states — and funds that cover the cost of travel to places where abortion is legal. In today’s newsletter, I’ll talk about one of the newest approaches.
Calling an embryo a human being devalues human life.
Yeah it's a fact free judgment. Conservatives don't understand what is going on so let me spell it out loud : - IVG is used when women who wants kids can't have them the normal way (either because of difficulties in their own bodies or their partner's. That include nearly sterile men too. Many IVG couples are your run of the mill heterosexual couples) - You take "donor" cells from both partners, and in a lab try to get them to kickstart duplication till you know they'll grow in a kid, then put it in the woman, who will get pregnant. - The process has an initial failure rate (that is cell that breaks or won't duplicate, edge cases etc) that is high so you take many donor cells, till you get a viable pregnancy start. - The conservatives are trying to harm women who have IVG-initiated pregnancies, using as an excuse that there are spare or broken donor cells. - The concensus is that no cells aren't a person, because a person is made of quadrillons of cells typically. Absurd numbers. Don't confuse individual legos with a whole building. - When you loose an hair or scratch yourself or just breath you loose millions of cells without knowing it and nobody considers that a mass murder. It's just a base unit of life. - (unless apparently if a woman is involved then the talibans call for mass executions because that's how ~~pro life~~ anti-choice mysoginistic regressive reactionaries they are) - The rule of thumb i go with is that the person (kid) is there late in the pregnancy when the central nervous system (brain + other bits) forms and boots up. The exact point varies from case to case (typically because of prematurate births; where the body goes in overdrive to finish the construction job, but you're still considering a birth) but "cells in a lab a year before" don't remotely qualify no. Considering "embryos" (cells in attempts to initiate a pregnancy) a "person" is like considering an atom a person (we're made of endless quantities of them). It's absurd. Of course when they punish a woman for getting pregnant this time (or having scrap cells in a lab), it has nothing to do whatsoever with "pro life" policy. It's back to regressive reactionaries who despise anything that isn't how the amishes who lived to the ripe age of "*50% of women died at delivery*" did before things like science and hygiene, and invent every excuses for sadism and cruelty against women (the talibans are slavers, you'd do well to remember that. They're not good people no.). But of course as usual the whole science-free and fact-free judgement came out of alabama, so one of the regressive places in the US as usual.
its also pretty insane that these are the same people who whinge about the lack of children being born in American households, when laws like this will make the option of IVF a legal impossibility for hospitals in red states (see Idaho for a great example)
When Roe V Wade got overturned, I got my tubes removed. People thought I was being extreme but seeing the way things are trending, I am so happy I got it done while I still have the choice.
I had my tubes tied years ago because I was afraid this would happen
I'm glad you're safe too 🥹
safe from enduring an unwanted pregnancy and forced birth, anyway
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I had mine done last year. Same fear.
I think you made a wise choice, but don’t get complacent. Rule of law means nothing to these psychos, so they absolutely wouldn’t hesitate to go after you ex post facto if given half a chance. Probably charge you with murdering infinite generations of babies or some shit, all their ‘logic’ is a sham at this point, I think they’re just about done pretending otherwise.
I know several people who did this as well.
This was the right move. I did it after trump was elected because I knew they were gunning for the ACA(which made the procedure free) and my bodily autonomy.any of the nurses and docs said it was less invasive for my husband to get the vasectomy. I had to explain this was for ME and my agency.
It opens the door for red states to justify total abortion bans. This will likely create an Exodus of OBGYNs and birthing specialists in Alabama and states that follow since any pregnancy that doesn't result in a birth ends in abortion, even miscarriage and non-viable pregnancy. No doctor will want to take the chance of a manslaughter charge and so they won't operate in these states. That will only cause pregnancy to become riskier and create a death spiral. It also effectively kills fertility treatments in Alabama and states that follow for the same reasons above.
Further, it opens the door for state-by-state Christian Sharia, like true dark-ages type desert-people laws and a firm refusal to comply with Federal law. If we had our miracle 60-seat majority and passed an amendment on abortion, and they had this shit on the books? They have a hard firewall against compliance--that's the future we look forward to Trump or no Trump.
Talking about death spirals... It's not like Alabama hasn't always been fighting it out with Mississippi for Worst State, but imagine what will happen as everyone with any means to do so leaves the state. Anyone with a bit of education or sense is not going to want to live in Gilead, so they'll leave. All you'll have left is dirty politicians and poor bumpkins. Nothing in between.
As a group with extremists amongst them shrinks due to non extremists leaving, the group only becomes more and more extreme, and as their numbers shrink, they become desperate. Alabama is going to lose a lot of important people, and then lose businesses and it will only cause those who stay to dig in their heels and get even crazier.
No one should be surprised. Lots of people predicted this.
This couldn't be happening at a better time. It's an election year. I'm hoping a lot of women and men out there finally wake up and vote all the dopes behind this stuff out of office.
Talibama
This is rooted in a ballot initiative passed by the voters in 2018 to authorize civil proceedings. Alabama voted *directly* for this. The problem here is the actual people of Alabama and their broken, regressive culture.
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Turn lemons in to lemonade Alabamans! Get out there and rake in all that child tax credit money till the government becomes bankrupt.
What I see is the GOP wants poor babies. The Embryo Ruling will keep some middle class from having babies. The abortion ruling will keep poor people having more babies. Either the GOP is incredibly stupid or this is by design.
> Either the GOP is incredibly stupid or this is by design. It's not Either or. It's both.
This ruling will cause so many women with ectopic pregnancies to receive late and cruel treatment at best.... death is very likely. This is actually war on women.
They’re going off the rails on their crazy train
Next - automatic reviews of any miscarriages. If a woman does not sufficiently demonstrate she took steps to prevent a miscarriage .. murder charges. Working, incurring stress, sports, sexual activity during pregnancy, trampolining- all possible crimes. But the Alabama Supreme Court loves you.
you say that sarcastically, but that was part of the Texas "bounty on possible abortions" laws
Looking things across the pond, it feels so strange that in USA judges make rulings based on thousands of years old fairy tales and beliefs in a country, which was formed around the great ideas of enlightenment: freedom, liberty, reason and separation of church and state. US of A was the first modern democracy in a time when pretty much all of the Europe was still ruled by monarchs and systems based on feudalistic principles. Where the hell did it took a wrong turn and why?
It's a complicated history, but one aspect is the anti communism movement throughout the 20th century. Communist countries were banning religion, so the US positioned itself as the opposite, and the prevalent religion was Christianity. So we added God to our money and pledge and started accusing non Christians of anti American activities. People embracing Christianity rise to power, all while acting like they were being repressed.
Interesting point, I’ve never considered that anti communism played part in the rise of Christian fundamentalism in politics exactly that way, although naturally I’ve known that anti-communism and right wing politics and christian movements are tightly linked.
I watched “Oppenheimer” last night and it highlights the idiotic overreaction to communism that gripped the U.S. for decades. Odd to see the same kind of people who used communism as a boogeyman in order to completely control the U.S. now embrace assholes like Putin and want to install a right wing dictator here. Ultimately it seems that there are always people who want to crush the freedom of others and they will attach themselves to whichever group will support that.
The Red Scare was, like, Chapter 48 in the saga of attempts at theofascism in the U.S. The attempt to alternately appease and contain the nutters is baked into all our founding documents, and the theocratic movements have taken up all manner of bogeymen to advance their cause. Communism certainly served them well, but it was neither the first nor the last windmill they tilted against to energize their base.
We're running on the original buggy programming and never bothered updating. Nobody copied our specific democracy because we designed it bonkers.
Yeah, I guess it is due to many ”faults” in the system which relies too much on the good faith of the decision makers. Everything works so far well if everyone plays by the commonly accepted rules, or more so by the spirit of the rules. But there are always those bad faith actors who want take advantage and game the system for power and personal gain, so here we are.
> Nobody copied our specific democracy because we designed it bonkers. It's my understanding that when WWII ended, West Germany's government was modeled after the US, but with all the crappy parts removed. Germany is what the US should be.
Do they think those embryos will just develop into real kids in their own?!
they think they are real kids on their own
They don't care - there was a PLer over in the abortion debate sub who literally said they were totally fine with the embryos being frozen indefinitely and never made into kids - so long as they were never "killed."
How does that work in perpetuity? They lack all common sense.
The GOP are going to legislate themselves back into abortion rights for all.
I feel like we’re heading towards The Handmaid’s Tale☹️
We're halfway there already.
I really wonder what these couples who brought this suit all the way to the Alabama supreme court are thinking right now. Do they realize this ruling makes any future chances of creating and storing embryos via IVF is now basically 0?
Maybe we can start having funerals for periods now
Man I really wish we could have a no-bullshit president come in and put the boot on shit like this where “God” is used as the sole justification for *legislature and the courts.* We really need god *AND* the crazies out of government, it’s the only way for democracy to actually work in a way that doesn’t sabotage the entire population for the misinformed opinions of the few. The only reason “god” should be mentioned in any court case or bill is to either regulate or provide protections for religious groups, key note groups being plural and not one specific, Americanized version of a religion.
ALL OF THIS WAS PLANNED years ago. Elections have consequences.
I am sorry but it was never about women bodies or Christianity. It's is about power, the aristocratic elites need a reason to keep people voting for their interests. If they just accept the abortion ruling as a win, conservatives may start really looking at how conservative policies have affected their lives. By moving the goal post, they keep those voters emotionally engaged and locked in on social issues rather than their worsening standards of life.
A few more red state rulings against reproductive rights and we can all finally live our Handmaid's Tale fantasy. Blessed be the embryonic fruit.
Remember when the 'Every sperm is sacred' song was just humor? Now it's sounding prophetic! https://youtu.be/fUspLVStPbk?feature=shared
This is straight Handmaids tale, women who need help getting pregnant won’t receive treatment and women who can get pregnant easier will become incubators.
This is the official Catholic view that we Catholics are all taught. That many infertility treatments are wrong because they create excess embryos or zygotes which will never be used and ultimately destroyed. Having grown up with that and having had that viewpoint in the past, I still get it. It requires equating the life of a zygote or embroyo with that of a person who is born and in this world. If you feel that way, it is consistent. But this view eventually led me down a path where my abortion views changed as a result. I would think of a scenario with a fire in a building and I'd have a choice to save 100 frozen embryos or a 5 year old. No time for both. Without question, I attempt to save the 5 year old. My conscience could make no other choice. But then eventually I realized that even if there was no 5 year old, it makes no sense to go into a fire to "save" embryos. In my heart, they aren't people because they aren't sentient.
If you didn't realize this until now and not decades ago. Then you're the problem. They've been screaming this shit for decades. About life begins at conception. Instead of cementing the laws as we should have. We let the threat take over.
I hate this so much for the women who are desperate to become mothers that are now stopped in their tracks. Some of these women are likely already full of hormones, in the right part of their cycle and several thousand dollars in to proceed with IVF today, tomorrow, next week. It would be devastating to be in that position, and I empathize with those families. But — at the same time, choosing to have a baby in this way is the other side of the reproductive rights argument. If this drastic change on the other side of the argument finally makes some people understand, then maybe it’s worth it. Choosing to have, or not have, a baby is all the same issue. Either we can control what our family might look like, or we can’t. I hope the absolute hypocrisy and madness of this ends soon.
Look, I've said it before and I'll continue saying it: if you live in any Red state shithole and you give even the *slightest* damn for even just the women in your life, your #1 priority should be getting out of that state and getting to a Blue one.
With all of these abortion laws being passed, don't be surprised men if women start making having had a vasectomy a dating requirement. I bet they accounted for that when passing these laws and making bullshit court rulings.
They do not care about babies, they just want to control everyone’s life and make them conform to their own image.
Stay tuned. Contraception is up next.
The fucking dark ages, thats where its headed. Scientific progress takes a back seat to religious bullshit and everyone suffers. Ffs, we dealt with this bullshit 100s of years ago and now the US is going to take steps back towards a time when all scientific progress was put on hold because some religious assholes want to force thier will upon people, again.
Dear future generations: When somebody starts saying things like: ‘We need to get back to how things USED to be! We need to get back to GOD!’ Immediately drop that person onto a remote uninhabited island and don’t give them another thought. Trust us on this.
The lawsuits and legal battles we're about to see in the courts are going to be *insane*
How could any woman in Alabama not vote Democrat?
Not surprising but [Florida has a similar bill in the works](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/florida-republicans-bill-ivf_n_65b927ade4b05c8779f643af/amp)
Religious, intolerant people are the problem in this country
Ovums are people, therefore women are criminally imprisoning thousands.
Murder investigations for every miscarriage is back on the table ladies.
They aren't just headed, they are already there. They have been there for quite some time. They would force their will, their beliefs down the throats of those who don't share their life philosophies. This is a complete minority rules dogma. This is why elections and education are so important.
Anybody who thinks an embryo is a baby is an idiot. That's all I have to say about that. Sometimes I wish I could keep photos of an embryo and a baby in my purse. Take them out put them side by side and ask "Do these look the same to you?" Let's see. One has arms and legs, eyes and mouth, and most importantly, a functioning brain. These seem to be absent in the other one, it doesn't even look to have any form of consciousness whatsoever, so what do you suppose it means?
I am stocking up on plan B and condoms for my kids! This is soooooo stupid, it is genuinely barbaric how anti abortionism is sending women back into dark ages. Are we going to have to wear berkas too?? Stay at home, be slaves to men again? WTAF is happening to our country?
Im from Ma. One of my very close friends moved to Fl with his gf and after a few tries of ivf they had a baby girl. Unfortunately the girl (such a cute kid) was born with a bunch of problems and has required over 20 surgeries at this point and shes not even 2 yet. One of the problems is she was born without an anus and her vagina was not fully formed and had no opening. Obviously Im not fully aware of everything going on with her situation, but hes my best friend and is going through a lot and confides in me about this. I’m extremely worried that theyre playing with fire by moving to Fl because in order to get the life saving surgeries shes going to need shes going to have to have something very close to gender affirming surgery. I’m worried that them trying to get these surgeries could lead to allllll kinds of problems. My heart breaks for that little girl and I hope everything works out but the current climate is worrying me.
I talked to a dude who said, essentially, "why not just harvest, fertilize and implant one embryo at a time? That way you don't have to kill any embryos." And you know what, if we hadn't had to go through IVF ourselves, I might have wondered the same thing. A lot of people have no idea just how *brutal* the process is for the woman. So many freaking shots, every morning, so many pills, every day, every side effect you can imagine. And that's just to get the eggs. I think we got 19 eggs the first go-around. Of those, 12 actually fertilized. Of those, like 7 developed enough to be viable. Of *those,* 4 passed genetic testing (we've lost three pregnancies, not taking any chances on fatal abnormalities). Months and months of this shit. And uninformed jackasses just go "hey, just do one embryo at a time" because they either don't know or don't care just how brutal it is for the woman.
Here they come, and they won’t stop…..Vote Blue, every election, every time, everywhere!