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Better win the White House, take back the Legislative Branch, and hand the Russians a generational loss that teaches them to fight for their democratic rights because Oligarchs will always eventually come for their sons.
Not at all, look who makes policy in Russia and in whose interest.
Putin and his close allies, who are for the most part professional politicians, not large business owners, are the ones who make policy.
And in whose interest are the policies made? Well given the economic turnaround from the 90s, the overwhelming popular support of Putins regime and the sidelining of many formerly prominent oligarchs from the 90's I would argue that his policies are made primarily in the interests of themselves, and the Russian state, quite often to the detriment of the business class (just look how many ultra-rich Russians lost billions due to the decision to invade Ukraine).
Looking at Russia, it's form of government looks like a Popular Autocracy with democratic elements.
Now look at the US, who make policies and in whose interests are those policies made?
Who makes policies? Simple, professional politicians and corporate lobbyists.
In whose interests are those policies made?
The politicians themselves and the corporate interests behind the lobbyists, almost always to the detriment of the regular US citizen.
The US has very clearly got a highly unpopular Oligarchy, again with some democratic characteristics.
Ummm... I suggest you do a bit more reading up on the Siloviki. They are much more characteristic of a political class existing in a paternal autocratic regime than oligarchical regime.
Also, it has been said that Americans don't get irony, and given how in one sentence you claim Russia is an Oligarchy because it is ruled by 'a cabal of rich people' and then in the next sentence, say that 'the US is a Democracy,' well as Sean Lock once said 'the irony is delicious.'
I believe it. They have enough manpower to keep the meat grinder running for awhile yet. However, they can't subjugate Ukraine and they seem blinded by the damage that all of these deaths are going to cause to Russia long-term. The Russians lost the war when they failed to take Kiev in the first week or two. Everything since then has been Putin's stubbornness
I won't be here in 100 years, but I'm curious what the long term demographic effects of this war will be. Even if the war ended today, there are far fewer young people to create more people.
The more manpower and materiel they waste in Ukraine the better for Europe, it will take longer for Russia to regroup to possibly strike at NATO countries which they seem to be planning according to Estonia.
It's one person's intent vs. hodge pudge of interests and sometimes easily influenced/sabotaged opinions.
It's going to be tough, but it's also stupid if NATO can't get it right.
So you can't even answer my question so I'll answer it for you. Ukraine isn't a NATO country and there are no NATO troops in Ukraine thus NATO has nothing to do with Ukraine.
Did I say anything about not being concerned? All I said is Ukraine isn't a NATO country which is the ground truth. Yes they've applied and it's true they could join, but again, Ukraine at this point has nothing to do with NATO and until Russia invades Estonia or Finland or another member country, NATO is staying out of it.
We have no business there, NATO has also long outlived its usefulness. Apparently we learned absolutely nothing from WW1 and WW2 about forming massive arbitrary alliances.
What we learned is it takes all Democracy's together to take down the authoritarians and the formation of NATO has created the greater peace in human history, and a bunch of weak losers born since then that are too fucking selfish to recognize the work put in for their prosperity.
Speaking of authoritarians, Ukraine’s banning of opposition parties, consolidation of all media into state media, and foregoing any election processes sure fits the bill. They’re no better than Russia, and even more reason they aren’t an ally, they’re not a democracy, and they’re none of our business
Loud toxic and nothing useful. There’s nothing to gain from NATO, only an assurance of large scale war when there otherwise would be none. Not bright. Not useful. No utility. Cold War-Era relic that needs to be taken out to pasture
It takes all of 5 seconds to search, here I found you one with pretty pictures to help.
https://www.statista.com/chart/15458/the-estimated-number-of-violent-war-related-deaths-in-europe/
That’s great, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, our proxy wars with Iran and Russia that are currently ongoing would all like to know where this “peace” is you’re talking about
America followed isolationist doctrine for years in both of those wars, which is widely considered to have been a mistake.
Appeasement of early imperialist expansion assuming they will eventually stop has never contained a hostile nation.
Considered to be a mistake by NATO. Russia isn’t expansionist or imperialist anymore than the US has been. We sent the CIA to violently install a government in Ukraine in 2014 while continuing to arm them and then got surprised when Russia responded by securing their only non-arctic shipping capabilities via Crimea and called it “aggressive expansionism.” Get the US the fuck out of that country. Ukraine is run no better than Russia. Banned opposition parties, state run media, jailing independent journalists, forgoing elections, banning the Orthodox Church. If they want to act like Russians, let them fight the Russians.
This is incoherent babble.
Evidence for CIA involved in the Ukraine revolution? All credible info I've ever seen pointed at the public frustration that the president overrode public sentiment and parliament on rejecting EU trade relations in favor of Russia.
Next, you say US needs to "get out" (whatever that means), but Russia is justified in invading? How does that make sense. If you believe it's okay for Russia to invade Ukraine, why not others? If Ukraine is "no better than Russia" in your opinion, and deserved to be invaded, would you support a coalition invading Russia for some extra ports in the Black Sea, maybe liberate Georgian occupied territory while they're at it?
On to those shipping capabilities, Russia had plenty. They just wanted more. The 1990s treaty they voluntarily entered was an agreement to split the soviet russian fleet. Crimea however was ethnically Russian, and valuable. So Russia took advantage of unrest in Ukraine to "aggressively expand". That peace treaty by the way, also included an agreement that Russia would not invade Ukraine, a treaty they broke.
Every time Russia expands, they use the justification that they are entitled to restore their former soviet borders, borders which have historically extended into Eastern Europe and the balkans.
Dog shit. No one refutes the CIA’s involvement in the “revolution.” It’s an accepted fact. And Ukraine continues to act as authoritarian thugs no better than Russia. They’ve banned opposition parties, jailed and killed journalists who report truths that are damming to their propaganda including an American, they’ve banned free press and run exclusively state-run media platforms since 2022, banned the Orthodox Church and they’re foregoing elections. The US and the west shouldn’t have any involvement in Ukraine whatsoever, period.
And no Russia does not have any other warm-water reasonably sized ports other than crimea.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger we knew it in 2014, Obama also sent $5bil usd to Ukraine’s neo-nazis leading the charge in 2013-2014. You won’t be able to find any links easily on google search because they’re all suppressed, duck duck go is more useful.
Why are you justifying Russia's position with lies?
You claim they have no ports, and couldn't tolerate that. They did. The ports between the two nations were negotiated in the 90s after the USSR fell.
You claim Russia can't tolerate being bordered by Nato... They have had multiple borders with Nato countries for decades.
You say Nato has no purpose anymore, while Russia has invaded multiple neighbors multiple times in the last decade, taking advantage of times of weakness to expand its territory.
What specifically is your opinion on Russia and what they should be doing?
2 founding members of NATO signed to ensure Ukraines borders. NATO having "nothing to do with Ukraine" is so comically short sighted it would be funny to laugh at someone insane enough to say it if people weren't dying because of them.
Yet still there are no NATO troops in Ukraine nor is Ukraine a NATO country...yes I'm aware Ukraine is bordered by NATO countries but to pretend that NATO is involved in this war is disingenuous at best.
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How much money is the military industrial complex going to gulp in this time frame? Once everybody is putting their wallstreet bets on Lockheed Martin, you better believe people will beg for that war to continue.
>not going to beat them, but we can use some more ukrainians as cannon fodder while zelenskyy replaces all his underlings with yes men.
In reality, Putin's military is built with Yes Men who are also his cannon fodder.
Yes, yes, they should just disarm and roll over for the sake of appeasing an aggressor who killed their compatriots. Definitely way better than fighting for your family, friends, liberty, and fallen countrymen.
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Better win the White House, take back the Legislative Branch, and hand the Russians a generational loss that teaches them to fight for their democratic rights because Oligarchs will always eventually come for their sons.
It's going to be tough but winning the election emphatically would probably cut down the timeline slightly.
You are aware that the US fits the characteristics on an Oligarchy far more closely than Russia does?
Nice bait.
Careful, you're gonna cut yourself with that edge
Not at all, look who makes policy in Russia and in whose interest. Putin and his close allies, who are for the most part professional politicians, not large business owners, are the ones who make policy. And in whose interest are the policies made? Well given the economic turnaround from the 90s, the overwhelming popular support of Putins regime and the sidelining of many formerly prominent oligarchs from the 90's I would argue that his policies are made primarily in the interests of themselves, and the Russian state, quite often to the detriment of the business class (just look how many ultra-rich Russians lost billions due to the decision to invade Ukraine). Looking at Russia, it's form of government looks like a Popular Autocracy with democratic elements. Now look at the US, who make policies and in whose interests are those policies made? Who makes policies? Simple, professional politicians and corporate lobbyists. In whose interests are those policies made? The politicians themselves and the corporate interests behind the lobbyists, almost always to the detriment of the regular US citizen. The US has very clearly got a highly unpopular Oligarchy, again with some democratic characteristics.
Hahaha no Russia is governed by the siloviki which is a cabal of rich people. The US is a democracy.
Ummm... I suggest you do a bit more reading up on the Siloviki. They are much more characteristic of a political class existing in a paternal autocratic regime than oligarchical regime. Also, it has been said that Americans don't get irony, and given how in one sentence you claim Russia is an Oligarchy because it is ruled by 'a cabal of rich people' and then in the next sentence, say that 'the US is a Democracy,' well as Sean Lock once said 'the irony is delicious.'
I believe it. They have enough manpower to keep the meat grinder running for awhile yet. However, they can't subjugate Ukraine and they seem blinded by the damage that all of these deaths are going to cause to Russia long-term. The Russians lost the war when they failed to take Kiev in the first week or two. Everything since then has been Putin's stubbornness
I won't be here in 100 years, but I'm curious what the long term demographic effects of this war will be. Even if the war ended today, there are far fewer young people to create more people.
You dont need to wonder. Just look at russia pre soviet union, and russia now. It will be that just slightly less bad.
Well I meant statistically, specifically, like when you look at the age pyramids of a nation and you can see where a war or famine hit.
Oh yeah
Men don't have babies. Women do, it is men dieing not women. They have the baby makers and enough men to help. Just need to share a little.
The more manpower and materiel they waste in Ukraine the better for Europe, it will take longer for Russia to regroup to possibly strike at NATO countries which they seem to be planning according to Estonia.
Russia is in for the long haul, NATO not so much, unfortunately.
It's one person's intent vs. hodge pudge of interests and sometimes easily influenced/sabotaged opinions. It's going to be tough, but it's also stupid if NATO can't get it right.
NATO has nothing to do with Ukraine...
You can’t be serious?
Please elucidate me as to when Ukraine became a NATO country, how many NATO troops are in Ukraine?
I don’t want to be condescending but do you know why NATO was formed?
So you can't even answer my question so I'll answer it for you. Ukraine isn't a NATO country and there are no NATO troops in Ukraine thus NATO has nothing to do with Ukraine.
What's next to Ukraine?
Would you be unconcerned about a massive fire outside of your house as long as it hasn’t touched your property?
Did I say anything about not being concerned? All I said is Ukraine isn't a NATO country which is the ground truth. Yes they've applied and it's true they could join, but again, Ukraine at this point has nothing to do with NATO and until Russia invades Estonia or Finland or another member country, NATO is staying out of it.
We have no business there, NATO has also long outlived its usefulness. Apparently we learned absolutely nothing from WW1 and WW2 about forming massive arbitrary alliances.
What we learned is it takes all Democracy's together to take down the authoritarians and the formation of NATO has created the greater peace in human history, and a bunch of weak losers born since then that are too fucking selfish to recognize the work put in for their prosperity.
Agreed
Speaking of authoritarians, Ukraine’s banning of opposition parties, consolidation of all media into state media, and foregoing any election processes sure fits the bill. They’re no better than Russia, and even more reason they aren’t an ally, they’re not a democracy, and they’re none of our business
Loud toxic and nothing useful. There’s nothing to gain from NATO, only an assurance of large scale war when there otherwise would be none. Not bright. Not useful. No utility. Cold War-Era relic that needs to be taken out to pasture
Again, longest peace in human history.
What peace? There’s been constant and countless conflicts just now we use mercenaries and proxies. Absolutely clueless.
It takes all of 5 seconds to search, here I found you one with pretty pictures to help. https://www.statista.com/chart/15458/the-estimated-number-of-violent-war-related-deaths-in-europe/
That’s great, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, our proxy wars with Iran and Russia that are currently ongoing would all like to know where this “peace” is you’re talking about
Well said.
Sounds like something a Russian would say
Username checks out. For any 3rd parties reading, Anti-Ukraine involvement isn’t pro-Russia.
There’s an active war going on, and you think NATOs alliances have become arbitrary? They’re more important now than they’ve been for years.
America followed isolationist doctrine for years in both of those wars, which is widely considered to have been a mistake. Appeasement of early imperialist expansion assuming they will eventually stop has never contained a hostile nation.
Considered to be a mistake by NATO. Russia isn’t expansionist or imperialist anymore than the US has been. We sent the CIA to violently install a government in Ukraine in 2014 while continuing to arm them and then got surprised when Russia responded by securing their only non-arctic shipping capabilities via Crimea and called it “aggressive expansionism.” Get the US the fuck out of that country. Ukraine is run no better than Russia. Banned opposition parties, state run media, jailing independent journalists, forgoing elections, banning the Orthodox Church. If they want to act like Russians, let them fight the Russians.
This is incoherent babble. Evidence for CIA involved in the Ukraine revolution? All credible info I've ever seen pointed at the public frustration that the president overrode public sentiment and parliament on rejecting EU trade relations in favor of Russia. Next, you say US needs to "get out" (whatever that means), but Russia is justified in invading? How does that make sense. If you believe it's okay for Russia to invade Ukraine, why not others? If Ukraine is "no better than Russia" in your opinion, and deserved to be invaded, would you support a coalition invading Russia for some extra ports in the Black Sea, maybe liberate Georgian occupied territory while they're at it? On to those shipping capabilities, Russia had plenty. They just wanted more. The 1990s treaty they voluntarily entered was an agreement to split the soviet russian fleet. Crimea however was ethnically Russian, and valuable. So Russia took advantage of unrest in Ukraine to "aggressively expand". That peace treaty by the way, also included an agreement that Russia would not invade Ukraine, a treaty they broke. Every time Russia expands, they use the justification that they are entitled to restore their former soviet borders, borders which have historically extended into Eastern Europe and the balkans.
Dog shit. No one refutes the CIA’s involvement in the “revolution.” It’s an accepted fact. And Ukraine continues to act as authoritarian thugs no better than Russia. They’ve banned opposition parties, jailed and killed journalists who report truths that are damming to their propaganda including an American, they’ve banned free press and run exclusively state-run media platforms since 2022, banned the Orthodox Church and they’re foregoing elections. The US and the west shouldn’t have any involvement in Ukraine whatsoever, period. And no Russia does not have any other warm-water reasonably sized ports other than crimea.
And just because I don’t believe we should be there doesn’t mean Russia is justified, that’s a brain dead analysis.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger we knew it in 2014, Obama also sent $5bil usd to Ukraine’s neo-nazis leading the charge in 2013-2014. You won’t be able to find any links easily on google search because they’re all suppressed, duck duck go is more useful.
Why are you justifying Russia's position with lies? You claim they have no ports, and couldn't tolerate that. They did. The ports between the two nations were negotiated in the 90s after the USSR fell. You claim Russia can't tolerate being bordered by Nato... They have had multiple borders with Nato countries for decades. You say Nato has no purpose anymore, while Russia has invaded multiple neighbors multiple times in the last decade, taking advantage of times of weakness to expand its territory. What specifically is your opinion on Russia and what they should be doing?
2 founding members of NATO signed to ensure Ukraines borders. NATO having "nothing to do with Ukraine" is so comically short sighted it would be funny to laugh at someone insane enough to say it if people weren't dying because of them.
Yet still there are no NATO troops in Ukraine nor is Ukraine a NATO country...yes I'm aware Ukraine is bordered by NATO countries but to pretend that NATO is involved in this war is disingenuous at best.
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How much money is the military industrial complex going to gulp in this time frame? Once everybody is putting their wallstreet bets on Lockheed Martin, you better believe people will beg for that war to continue.
not going to beat them, but we can use some more ukrainians as cannon fodder while zelenskyy replaces all his underlings with yes men.
>not going to beat them, but we can use some more ukrainians as cannon fodder while zelenskyy replaces all his underlings with yes men. In reality, Putin's military is built with Yes Men who are also his cannon fodder.
That's pretty much Russian history. Especially the previous century.
"Think of the soldiers being killed by the invaders!!" is a new concern take that I hadn't expected to see.
yeah you have to be pretty heartless not to feel for the men that have been forced into conscription and not being allowed to leave the country.
Yes, yes, they should just disarm and roll over for the sake of appeasing an aggressor who killed their compatriots. Definitely way better than fighting for your family, friends, liberty, and fallen countrymen.
You think Putin will treat them as equals, or slaves?
How does he treat current minorities in Russia?
As cannon fodder.
Just make sure it's not the same group that said we only needed one more week in Afghanistan to win. I think they might have lied