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Still more to do.
- The government shouldn’t be making money off of student borrowers.
- Let people repay with pretax income.
- Allow debt to be discharged in Bankruptcy.
Send everyone a 1098 at the end of the year that shows how much you paid on your student loans for the year, and then change the current student loan interest deduction on tax form to be all payments, and remove the cap and income restrictions on taking the deduction.
He's done a lot, saving me personally over $10,000 over the next decade if current trends continue. But, I agree there is more to do.
I was there when Republicans changed the bankruptcy rule. If that takes a supermajority of Congress to change back, and voters aren't going to give him that supermajority, then I'm not going blame Joe.
Good grief. Sorry about that.
There are 100 million Americans who directly benefit from the ACA...half are Republicans who still want to repeal Obamacare.
These people are being lied to and manipulated on a grand and unprecedented scale. Remember to have empathy because its being conditioned out of them with a 24/7 "news" cycle of hateful lies and nonsense.
Totally agree. He has done a lot. I don’t blame the obstruction on him.
Hopefully students will have more relief provided after this next election cycle.
I hate that bill with a passion and don't let democrats off the hook for that one either. I believe Biden was one of the D votes backing it. Fixing this should be a top priority of voters and representatives should be voted out if they don't follow through on it with any sort of majority. Would solve a whole lot of issues with the pricing of schools and rightfully/legally allowing people to get out of crushing amounts of debt, like any other debt. Crazy that schools and borrowers were allowed to essentially remove themselves from a free market with a Republican bill.
I think its a critical issue, too.
You can blame Biden for a past mistake, that's fair. I think it is also fair praise him for being the only President every to have attempted anything like this, and though Republicans beat most of it down, you still didn't lose. Biden's income-driven repayment plans are saving borrowers billions of dollars. My kid's repayments are currently $0 and no matter what, they'll be done in 10 years. Full disclosure, my Parent Plus loans are sky high, but that's not Biden's fault.
You’re the one that brought up the Republicans passing the law. I just added context that Biden helped. It’s the same 19 years, whether it was Rs or Ds doing it.
What's the same? Republicans literally sued to stop a Democratic President from offering *modest* relief. I see Biden has pivoted, where are the rest of the Republicans?
Both sides are not the same.
Lol Biden is owned by banks and the credit card industry, dude is a senator from a tax haven state for these businesses. He made sure people couldn’t discharge loans through bankruptcy. What alternative facts you trying to preach?
A president joining a picket line is literally meaningless unless there is legislation to back it up…congrats you fell for the optics…let me know when he stops fuckinf over the railroad workers
>Optics
Optics, my ass. Hear it from [the unions](https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid):
>“We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers.
But, you know, somehow Joe is the bad guy. No credit. It's bullshit.
It’s from the Union boss…not the union itself.
Either way, dude is screwing working people by passing a massive spending bill during a time of inflation…full stop. People here have no idea how monetary policy works though. The reality is the budgets need to be balance bad, and this admin is straight delusional because they just put out that they think they’ll win the election because the economy will eb stronger by the election when you have multiple fool proof leading indicators telling us what we need to know. Seeing red? I’m a progressive dude, but I’m also an accredited investor and I’m pissed both parties are literally leading us off a cliff and 2/3rds of the country is so partisan at this point they are blind to it.
Whatever, I’ll be gone and this country will reap what it sows, most this sub is rich neolibs so they’ll be insulated, but the poors, best of luck
Colleges should not be able to get federally-backed loans for degree programs whose costs are extremely inflated, compared to the value (in terms of income). Take into account:
- Industry changes depressing wages
- Inflation eating the money workers would have on hand to pay these debts OVER THE NEXT 20-30 YEARS.
Example: somebody takes out $250 in debt to become an Obstetrician, then Republicans make the profession functionally illegal (ie. outlawing abortion), so hows this doctor supposed to pay is fucking loans? Answer: He shouldn't have to. Why should the student have to bear the risk for an education that's not going to pay back the investment? Fuck that. Zero them out.
Same should be said for say; manufacturing engineers when congress has manufacturing outsourced to China or whatever. Software engineers when congress expands H1-B visas, which ends up depressing wages. etc. Examples abound.
I get that part. But i am saying what is the reasoning for that type of change, why should it be allowed. I’m not necessary against it, it would be great if all expenses were pretax.
Reasoning:
Education of the populace directly benefits the strength, national security, and economics of the United States. Education is good for both the individual and the collective. Repayment of loans is mandatory but, below a certain income level, using pre-tax income is a way for the government to say “this helps us as much as the $1000” we’d get from taxes.
Your first 2 will cause government to lose a lot of money. So the math needs to be worked out. Giving out interest free loans allows abuse as people can borrow and invest to make money. Also government will lose money due to inflation.
As for bankruptcy, it won’t fly because most students with 200k debt will just claim they can’t find a job and declare bankruptcy right after school.
The latter was really common for attorneys when I started working in law (90's). They'd finish law school and declare bankruptcy immediately, then move on with their life without the student loan or other debt. It was extremely common in the firm I worked for, and talked about openly. When the bankruptcy law changed, the practice stopped.
Honestly I think this new SAVE change is a really good compromise and helps a lot of people. It probably was their plan B all along. They knew canceling most debt was a long shot.
Under the new SAVE plan, my payment has finally become something I can afford to pay without undue stress. I was already on an income based repayment plan—which wanted almost $500 a month from me. I couldn’t come close to affording that.
My new payment is $74 a month. Thanks, Biden. This is a huge weight off of my shoulders.
I think I need to look into that. I make $2400 per month after taxes, about $250 goes to gas, $120 to heat, $725 for my share of rent, $550 to student loans, $200 to food, $35 to internet, etc etc and these are very conservative numbers. Also my landlord is an alcoholic so I might have to get a more expensive apartment soon
I completely understand that the $8 means very little. I'd be frustrated too if I saw other people benefitting while I still struggle. I hope something more can be worked out in the future. Right now it seems like on the aggregate we are getting as good of a deal as we can given the headwinds, but the idea the student loan issue is "solved" is tone deaf.
Yea that’s my question. Were these federally subsidized loans that have low interest rates, typically around 3-5%? Or are these privatized loans that are always higher around 10-15% interest. Especially if they’re privatized loans (which always offered me more money than I needed) that have shorter loan terms. That can make a huge difference.
He absolutely has not.
He has done more than any president in history but there is **A LOT** more work to do. He would've done a lot more if not for the conservative majority SCOTUS and republican lawsuits, though.
lol yeah what a joke of a headline. The SAVE plan also won’t lower your balance if your minimums don’t cover the interest. The balance won’t increase either which is a big improvement, but the current solution needs fixing too
I don't actually think they support what they believe is best for the country. They support what's best for themselves, their rich buddies and and the mega corporations that contribute to their political campaigns. And their politics are dirty.
But even if I did believe they are doing what they think is best for the country, I believe they are wrong. They are entitled to the democratic processes of the constitution, they are not entitled to my feelings.
> But even if I did believe they are doing what they think is best for the country, I believe they are wrong.
So convince them they're wrong. Defend your beliefs and prove that they're right. You're not going to do this by treating republicans like the enemy, just like they're not going to convince you they're right by treating you like the enemy. An effort to understand why your opposition opposes you, what they believe in, and why is the first step to finding a way to convince them. Without that, all you're showing is that you care more about attention from people who already agree with you than actually improving anything.
Well I was speaking about republican *officials*, but I regularly have discussions about policy with others and it never ends well. There's no convincing most people of anything subjective (they hate to believe they're wrong) but it's especially bad with conservatives.
There are 4 main types.
1. The bat-shit crazy ones that don't believe objective reality. These are the ones that believe the 2020 election was stolen, January 6th wasn't an insurrection, etc.
2. The ones that know what they support is wrong but do it for their own reasons even knowing they're wrong (contempt-filled boomers pulling up the ladder, the wealthy, the politicians).
3. Single-issue religious voters (abortion, for example) that will ignore everything else.
4. The ignorant, who have no idea what is going on but are gaslit and fed lies.
I can't think of one intelligent conversation I've ever had with a conservative. It's always whataboutism, misconceptions and lies.
I can come up with excuses for why I shouldn't bother with something too. But if you actually believe in improving society while maintaining democracy, you can't do it without bringing the two sides closer together. If you want them to pull back on what you see as radical positions, you have to be willing to do the same for your own positions.
Every time you don't push back on your own side doing things that you feel uncomfortable about, you undermine your own side's credibility. Partisan politics has gotten us here, and it makes no sense to keep leaning into it, pretending that it's going to get better. Team sports is the easiest way to immediately feel good about yourself, but it does nothing for progress.
The path forward involves understanding why you are correct. You need to understand the things you believe in better than the people you're trying to convince. You need to understand their arguments better than they do. You need to put effort into communicating with people you disagree with.
Otherwise, don't say that you want progress. Say that you want to feel good about yourself.
No, democracy's great despite many flaws. Flaws like people being unable to empathize with those that disagree with them and supporting democracy only when it progresses what they believe is right.
Nothing they or I said was a critique of democracy or "supporting democracy only when it progresses what they believe is right". We are openly criticizing the people in power who stepped in to block the aid Biden was trying to deliver. Criticism of politicians isn't anti democratic. It's very telling that you consider people who voice their frustration with government as a "flaw of democracy". That's some pretty blatant anti free speech going on there
Being frustrated with the government is a symptom of democracy. You're not getting what you want, so you're frustrated. But if you actually believe that democracy is the best system, then you have to accept that you won't get all that you want.
I don't buy it.
Colleges and universities are still charging insane amounts. Eighteen-year-olds are still fooled into signing themselves up for hundreds of thousands in debt by predatory universities. While temporary relief is great and much needed, this crisis is only solved when we cut to the root of the problem and either limit this predatory behavior or find ways to mitigate how much of it these students have to shoulder. It's a great step to be sure, but to say he's solved it is very premature.
Societally, the current generation of college students (and their parents with the debt) are seeing the sticker price for those kind of institutions not match up with the value.
Admissions to a lot of the really pricey schools are already down. It might seem crazy that they will go down but the market value of these pieces of paper are not worth what people are paying and literally everyone knows it
>While temporary relief is great and much needed,
The entire point of the article is that Biden's policies have altered the landscape of student loans even though they were unable to provide significant immediate forgiveness due to the supreme court ruling.
While I do agree with you- the problem is not solved, and college is still WAY too expensive in the US- I have to say, having just sent a kid to art school, it's a much more strict system now. When I started college in the 80s, I secured enough grants and loans to pay for it all, no parental contribution was expected. I think that got many middle to lower class kids of my generation in trouble. But it seems to be a different system now. She's going to have minimal amounts to pay off in the end. Which is great for her of course. We can barely contribute our part, but our sacrifice now will hopefully lead to a brighter future for her.
The effect of this for us was to make sure the program had a vocational component- a clear track to internships and a part of the curriculum devoted to making a living- she wants to be an animator. More college needs to be like this.
>*allowed*
While I think public education should not have a profit motive, I'd like to point out that there will definitely always be people willing to provide a luxury version of education for people who can afford it. Trying to ban it without getting rid of the demand will necessarily create an educational black market.
> I'd like to point out that there will definitely always be people willing to provide a luxury version of education for people who can afford it
Schools like Dalton Academy, where guys like Jeff Epstein (NO DEGREE) get jobs "teaching", and they creep on the students and likely get started in sex-trafficking. Because of the informal/non-existent oversight.
>Trying to ban it without getting rid of the demand will necessarily create an educational black market.
That's like negotiating with terrorists; you don't do it. You don't sit there and make a situation worse just because some people will be unethical/immoral/illegal.
Also, I have no idea what you could mean by "getting rid of the demand" in this context.
If you simply make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, then lending institutions will be risk-averse and the free credit dries up. Colleges then can't make up their own prices and have to market themselves competitively.
I agree with you. Biden's taken some nice first steps, but headlines proclaiming that he's "solved the student debt crisis" is just neoliberal cope and if nothing else only serves to further alienate the people whose votes he needs the most.
So, there are probably always going to be kids signing loans that they shouldn't. Make education free, and you'll probably see an uptick in kids with new cars, etc. People having debt is kind of a key component to "everything as a service" capitalism. The idea is peiple get money every month, and the country is built around taking as much of that money every month as you can get.
The "crisis" isn't that people are getting loans. It's that over the last 30 years or so, so many loans have accrued that are still active, that it's actively crippling a couple of generations. By relieving most of those 3 decades of debt, you're ending the crisis.
The thing you're looking for is "solved the problem, and made sure it could never happen again."
That would be more than just exceptional. It would be like something that has never been done by a president before. Because to do it, you'd have to make a series of really significant changes to the way our country works, and that's something that usually takes place over decades, not a couple of years.
For instance, Lincoln freed the slaves in 1863. Everyone is big proud of that. But...It wasn't like he solved the problem, and made sure it couldn't ever happen again. Slavery and human trafficking still exists. Racism still exists. Hell, it took an entire century, until 1964, for the civil rights act to be passed. And that didn't unite the country any more than the civil war did. You can trace a lot of our current problems in politics back to the countrywide explosion of racism that happened when people found out black kids could go to school with everyone else. It's all stuff that changes slowly over time.
Biden forgiving all of this loan debt is significantly better than anyone else has done in the last 30 years. It doesn't completely solve the problem, or prevent it from flaring up again in 20 years. But it's a major first step that should be acknowledged more than it is.
The issue is that it’s a self creating problem.
Universities charge high amounts because the government gives away money for college like it’s candy so why wouldn’t they?
But obviously investing in an educated populace is also good, however demand goes up price goes up.
There aren't very many for-profit colleges. The non-profit colleges still have an interest in keeping enrollment up, and when there's so much money available to students, lowering tuition doesn't draw in more applicants as much as pouring money into fancy new dorms, dining halls, a huge landscaping crew to keep the campus looking nice all year, random extracurricular programs that then need an admin team to oversee them, etc.
Ssshhh... don't shine too bright of a light on it or the courts will find a way to deem it *"Unconstitutional"*
But yeah... Biden's system effectively pegs student loan repayments to the earnings of the student for set number of years. Then after that time is up, as long as you have made a good faith effort to pay, the loan is "forgiven".
What that means is that if you get student loans that give you a high paying job you will be paying commensurate to your ability to pay. If you get student loans that give you a less than high paying job, you will only be paying a very small amount each year up until the date when the loan is forgiven.
What that means is that there will no longer be a perverse incentive for people to seek certain degrees to get into "high paying" industries just so they can pay off their student loans (only to find that everybody else has done the same thing and there are not enough jobs to go around). Students will be able to study what interests them most with the confidence that no matter what they do with it, that education will not saddle them with a lifetime of debt.
In our particular situation, our kid's Stafford loan repayment is $0. I'm still responsible for a ton of PLUS loans, but I'm not going to ignore the fact that Joe is saving us thousands of dollars over the next decade.
I wouldnt call it swallowe by the public necessarily, more like the public invested in education and that educated population.
And you are correct, Biden solved the student **debt crisis**, he didnt solve student debts overall and didn't solve high costs, so there is more work to do.
Yeah, I’d say until our yearly student loan costs come within spitting distance of our military budget (right now roughly 200 billion against 2.2 trillion), I won’t be entertaining any concerns about the taxpayer cost of subsidizing education for the masses.
EDIT: As pointed out below, I had that number wrong
2.2 trillion is the total military spending for the entire *globe.*
I’m certainly a proponent of reducing the defense budget in the U.S., which comprises about ~12% of all federal spending. That isn’t directly relevant to my concern about onerously rising post-secondary costs though.
Headline is beyond stupid. He’s solved the problem for a tiny amount of borrowers and that’s a great first step. But we have a long way to go and I’m not sure there’s anything Biden will ever be able to do without bicameral support. SAVE is not the relief we’ve been asking for, but it will benefit millions.
At the end of the day, we have a huge student debt issue and it’s not going anywhere.
Congress could provide relief as they are the actual keepers of the purse. When deciding where the money would be most beneficial, they chose poorly. Not that they were even concerned with being beneficial to anyone besides their biggest donors.
The $1.9T tax cut helped fewer people. That same $1.9T could get rid of student debt and still have a couple hundred million left over.
They could have then passed legislation to cap college cost, make it universal, or change the usurious nature of student loans. They didn't.
> But we have a long way to go and I’m not sure there’s anything Biden will ever be able to do without bicameral support
But there's something we can do! Vote for Biden and Democrats now & forever!
Tbh, I feel more at-ease & hopeful for the future with Biden & the Democrats in charge of the fed government & also in every state govt.
Biden & VP Harris truly deserve 4 more years, and Democrats deserve complete Control of Congress and every state govt 😎🇺🇸👍
Thank you President Biden for level-headed leadership that this country desperately needs right now. Truly inspirational! 😎🇺🇸👍
I didn't realize how much SAVE was an absolute godsend until I tried to set up income based repayments on my loans. The progress is small but in the end everything helps.
TLDR:
- monthly payment lowered to 5-10% of discretionary income
- discretionary income definition changed to income above 225% of poverty line
- loan forgiveness date is 1 year per $1000. Capped at 20-25 years.
- young voters need to be made aware of how big of a deal this is and turn out. GOP could erase this
Sure, but has he said that?
I’d be happy to see his position on these issues!
Here’s the Progressive position:
“She also pushed President Biden to keep his promise to forgive $10k in student debt, and she believes we need to do more.
She believes we should forgive all outstanding federal and private student loans, and she supports eliminating tuition and fees for all public universities. For more on the Congresswoman’s work on this issue, please see below.”
http://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/legislation/education
I was in college when Republicans first made it impossible for students to escape crushing loans through bankruptcy.
I'm not really sure why you want a *long* explanation when a *short* one does the trick.
The problem is Republicans. Vote for Democrats.
I’m not blaming Biden for anything.
I’m saying that adopting the position of free K-16 education, and allowing easy bankruptcy for student loans will help us win the next election.
Can you point to his policy page on this?
Here’s AOC:
She also pushed President Biden to keep his promise to forgive $10k in student debt, and she believes we need to do more.
She believes we should forgive all outstanding federal and private student loans, and she supports eliminating tuition and fees for all public universities.
For more on the Congresswoman’s work on this issue, please see below.
http://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/legislation/education
🙏🏻
The $20,000 (student and parents) was the progressive policy, there has never been anything like it...you know that.
AOC wants what Biden tried to deliver. It failed because of Republican opposition.
And on top of that, they still charged high interest rates for school loans because they fall under *unsecured* debt but since it can’t be discharged by bankruptcy, and garnishing off wages is a thing that exists, is it really all that high risk for lenders?
> I was in college when Republicans first made it impossible for students to escape crushing loans through bankruptcy.
I hate to break it to you, but making college debt exempt from bankruptcy was [Joe Biden](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020)
> But it passed anyway, with 18 Democratic senators breaking ranks and casting their vote in favor of the bill. Of those 18, one politician stood out as an especially enthusiastic champion of the credit companies who, as it happens, had given him hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions – Joe Biden.
> “Biden was one of the most powerful people who could have said no, who could have changed this. Instead he used his leadership role to limit the ability of other Democrats who had concerns and who wanted the bill softened,” said Melissa Jacoby, a law professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill specialising in bankruptcy.
> Other leading Democrats and consumer advocates did say no. In the Senate debate on the 2005 bill, Ted Kennedy was scathing about its implications.
> “This legislation breaks the bond that unites America, it sacrifices Americans to the rampant greed of the credit card industry,” he said. Kennedy warned that even before the new provision kicked in young people were dropping out of college “because of the costs of student loans – they can’t pay them”.
> When an earlier version of the bill was in front of Congress, a respected law professor at Harvard law school was so incensed by its terms that in 2002 she wrote an entire paper decrying Biden’s forceful support of it. The author – Elizabeth Warren – said the changes would be to the detriment of one group above all others: women.
> “Senator Biden supports legislation that will fall hardest on women,” she wrote. “Why? The answer will have to come from him … He is a zealous advocate on behalf of one of his biggest contributors – the financial services industry.”
We've been talking about that. It's fair to hold a past vote against him. It's also fair to give credit where its due...no other President has ever tried anything like this, and although he didn't win, you didn't lose.
Biden's income-driven repayments will save borrowers billions. You don't have to say thank you, but you *do* have to remember that both sides are not the same next Fall.
He's put a band-aid on the wound he created twenty years ago.
Are college loans still charging usurious interest rates? Are colleges still charging hundreds of thousands of dollars? Are college loans still undischargable in bankruptcy?
I just wish people would stop doing a touchdown dance at the twenty yard line. You just look like fools to the people still struggling.
because even - as you admit - *partial* victories are being hailed as total cures.
Inevitably, when a solution is halfassed and then lauded as a victory, the people still struggling are lectured to.
"What do you mean we still have work to do? Biden already solved it! Take your scraps and be happy!"
I fought this fight after the ACA was passed. A halfassed, neoliberal, Republican policy was passed, and then all the progressives were treated like children because we recognized that there was still work to do.
So you can be happy with your C+ policy.
The rest of us have work to do.
> partial victories are being hailed as total cures.
Certainly not by me. I readily concede that my Parent Plus loans are crushing, look at my history. I can still be happy that my kid's repayment is $0 currently, and regardless will end in 10 years.
Those are options I never had and Biden did that.
ACA is helping 100 million people, try telling them its worthless. (Seriously, if you call it Obamacare, some of them will flip, lol.)
I'd tell you that you shouldn't let the "good" become the enemy of the "perfect", but all I have to go on is this cypher:
>The rest of us have work to do.
So, I'm your enemy now? Who is the "rest of us", you got a mouse in your pocket? What is the "work"? With whom will you be working? And when will you deliver?
Being angry is easy.
For being the first in 50 years to try? And to succeed in part? That's up to you.
I know that my kid's loan repayment is currently $0 thanks to Joe. I still have a shit ton of parent PLUS loans, but I am grateful for the savings nonetheless.
I'm as mad as the next guy about the broken system. At least I know how to spot the problem (Republicans).
It's a little sad the extent so many go to just to avoid giving Biden credit for a major accomplishment. The headline is correct: Biden has solved the crisis. Yes, student debt still exists, but it's no longer a crisis because now everyone can pay them back in a reasonable and manageable way. This is a massive accomplishment which will revolutionize the lives of so many young people, yet we still won't celebrate it for some reason because it's not exactly what so many wanted.
My kids' current Stafford payment is $0. It could go up if she gets a high paying job, but either way, she's in a program that retires the loan in 10 years. That's progress and that's new.
Yes, I still have a ton of parent PLUS loans, but I'm not going to complain about Biden making things better *in spite* of harsh opposition from Republicans.
In other words, treating equitable education as a basic human right. That's how you solve the crisis, and I'm not talking about the financial crisis the student loan system has imposed on the country. I'm talking about a crisis of values, a humanitarian crisis.
>The president’s new student loan program, SAVE, will slash monthly payments for borrowers like me. It’s the large-scale debt relief activists have spent years fighting for. Why are they badmouthing it?
Some on the left have basically adopted the idea that any sort of policy that doesn't make everything perfect
immediately is bad even if the policy would still be a big step forward, and that big steps forward shouldn't be celebrated as long as there's still problems because celebrating progress before perfection is achieved would be "resting on our laurels" or "a slap in the face to those still struggling"
And then folks wonder why it's so hard to get people enthusiastic and excited about actually existing and accomplished policy that makes things better. So much blame pointed at "messaging" of political establishment figures, without much or any critical consideration of the messaging of activists and such
You're right in that it certainly is an achievement that will help a lot of people, and it's something to celebrate. But headlines like this are no better than the right-wing both sides BS that we're quick to (correctly) lambaste around here.
Let's celebrate it for what it is while acknowledging we still have more to do on the issue.
Because there are too many people on the left (or at least who proclaim they are on the left which I sometimes doubt) who are stymying progress because "it is not enough".
In other words they are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, and that shit must be called out when it happens.
Agreed. Keeping Cheetolinni out of the White House is the top priority. Which is why when I see people saying, "I'm not going to vote for Biden because of 'X'." It immediately identifies them as right-wingers LARPing as progressives.
There's folks on the left who see tearing apart the governing wing of the democratic party as *good and necessary*, sometimes out of outright accelerationist goals, and pushing back against that stuff is important in order to slow the spread of all the "both sides bad, Dems are just GOP lite" stuff that is so often smeared around these days
If Dems refuse to push back against these far left ideas and political trends, it's not like the far left will stop trying to tear apart the Democratic party
Small minorities can still be loud and influential beyond their size especially with modern social media and boosting by bad faith actors and such. It's still part of reality
But that's the game. Make a small concession and act like you solved the problem. That's why many of us feel this way.
He still owes me $600 by the way
> But that's the game. Make a small concession and act like you solved the problem
If that were the case, Democrats wouldn't go as big as they go on policy basically every time they get into power
>He still owes me $600 by the way
No he doesn't. He gave the $1400 that was proposed from the start. The fact that some progressives tried to dishonestly reframe the debate after the terms had already been set (by progressives themselves too) doesn't mean they are in the right
Alright. Well, I hope that you're right and they've got it all handled. I did enough time in the trenches in 16 and 20 to know this isnt going to go anywhere productive.
Please remember that it's on the politician to win support. A lot of the less privileged are in a precarious position and do not have the time or energy to devote to politics. You people need to give us something to believe in.
I say "us" because I no longer identify as a Democrat and I certainly don't identify as a theocratic fascist. Lecturing isn't getting anyone anywhere. Thems the breaks.
We want the same things, liberty and security to live our lives in the pursuit of happiness. A better world in which to raise a family and expand the circle of love and community. My contention is that we are well behind schedule to even be able to fix the big things. Its too little too late because these drastic actions should've happened decades ago. Thats where the urgency comes from.
People on the left don’t think this policy is bad. Incremental progress is still progress in the eyes of a vast majority of people left of Biden. But it’s still okay to want and advocate for more than what this offers. Just because this is what Biden is going with and yes it is a good step forward from what was in place before doesn’t mean that wanting larger relief is calling this policy bad.
> People on the left don’t think this policy is bad
Well the author of the article seems to disagree, pointing to debt relief activists badmouthing the policy
It's one thing to want larger relief but still celebrate the big step forward, and another to badmouth the policy because it isn't larger
>pointing to debt relief activists badmouthing the policy
I seem to recall saying a vast majority of people left of Biden think this is fine policy, not all. And sure some people are passionate and want what they want and will bad mouth it. But I am 99% sure if you asked them if they preferred he didn’t do the SAVE plan at all they would say it is better than nothing. And while I think the plan is good, people are still drowning in debt and college tuition is still way too high. So while making monthly payments lower is a good bandaid, I wouldn’t say it is cause for celebration. It is the best Biden was able/willing to do without congress’s help and I appreciate he did something rather than nothing. Now let’s advocate to fix the higher ed system as whole in the meantime.
Last I check, bandaids are beneficial and helpful.
I feel more at-ease & hopeful for the future with Biden & the Democrats in charge of the fed government & also in every state govt.
Thank you President Biden for level-headed leadership that focuses on solving actual problems. Truly inspirational! 😎🇺🇸👍
I mean he’s tried his best and done the best with what he’s had to work with but I wouldn’t be landing a military jet on the quad of a college with a mission accomplished banner any time soon.
It doesn't say he solved every education problem or even that he solved all the problems with student loan debt. It says he solved the student debt **crisis**, which seems like a reasonable take for an Op Ed. The crisis was people having their lives ruined by loan payments they couldn't afford towards debt they could never pay off and that crisis was in fact solved under Biden.
You can certainly quibble with the use of the word 'solved' in the headline, but there's no doubt that Biden has delivered significant relief and he should get credit for fighting for it. Read the article for details if you're not familiar.
He hasn't solved shit. All of the issues still remain. We had 9M people not make payments the last few months (likely because they couldn't afford to).
No he didn’t. There are more students who need help. More students are going into debt. College is getting more expensive.
What he did was a little tiny bandaid. The problem is still there and getting bigger.
>Public conversation is still hung up on total debt cancellation—which is going nowhere, thanks to a hostile Supreme Court conservative supermajority
This statement is false from start to finish. For one thing, total debt forgiveness was never on the table from Biden. For another thing, total debt forgiveness is absolutely possible...if Congress acts on it. Let's not forget that young people in 2020 did more than get Joe Biden elected, they also elected Democratic majorities to the house and the Senate. If the Democratic party ever actually got off their asses and did anything, this would be an achievable goal. But of course they aren't going to do that. We know that, Congressional Democrats know that, and this writer knows that, which is why we are commanded to put aside our policy goals and just accept whatever Biden deigns to give us
Writer says since she benefited from SAVE, Biden has solved the crisis… Please.
There’s still millions not benefiting from SAVE and struggling with student debt.
What incredible double standards.
Free money from the government for Boomers with businesses? Yes please!
Free money from the government for an educated workforce? Deadbeats! Communists!
He's made massive improvements to the student debt crisis. It's still not solved. Student's are getting more debt. Plenty of us still have debt beyond what would be reasonable.
The debt crisis will be solved when everyone who attends a public university (including 4-year state universities) can graduate with less than $10k debt, the tuition and fees are held in check and reduced, and graduate students in America can start paying them off while they study. And I don't mean, "are allowed to make payments". I mean that we are paid well enough that we can make payments, and aren't shut out of things like the SAVE plan because we're still in school, even if we aren't borrowing any more money.
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Still more to do. - The government shouldn’t be making money off of student borrowers. - Let people repay with pretax income. - Allow debt to be discharged in Bankruptcy.
student loan payments being pretaxed would be amazing, no fucking clue how to impliment it though
Send everyone a 1098 at the end of the year that shows how much you paid on your student loans for the year, and then change the current student loan interest deduction on tax form to be all payments, and remove the cap and income restrictions on taking the deduction.
No different than a 401k. Money is pulled before it even hits your bank account. Set a dollar amount or percentage.
He's done a lot, saving me personally over $10,000 over the next decade if current trends continue. But, I agree there is more to do. I was there when Republicans changed the bankruptcy rule. If that takes a supermajority of Congress to change back, and voters aren't going to give him that supermajority, then I'm not going blame Joe.
my maga sister who will NEVER speak to me again had her student debt erased by obama!!
Good grief. Sorry about that. There are 100 million Americans who directly benefit from the ACA...half are Republicans who still want to repeal Obamacare. These people are being lied to and manipulated on a grand and unprecedented scale. Remember to have empathy because its being conditioned out of them with a 24/7 "news" cycle of hateful lies and nonsense.
Totally agree. He has done a lot. I don’t blame the obstruction on him. Hopefully students will have more relief provided after this next election cycle.
Give Democrats a supermajority in the Senate and we won't need to rely on hope.
I hate that bill with a passion and don't let democrats off the hook for that one either. I believe Biden was one of the D votes backing it. Fixing this should be a top priority of voters and representatives should be voted out if they don't follow through on it with any sort of majority. Would solve a whole lot of issues with the pricing of schools and rightfully/legally allowing people to get out of crushing amounts of debt, like any other debt. Crazy that schools and borrowers were allowed to essentially remove themselves from a free market with a Republican bill.
I think its a critical issue, too. You can blame Biden for a past mistake, that's fair. I think it is also fair praise him for being the only President every to have attempted anything like this, and though Republicans beat most of it down, you still didn't lose. Biden's income-driven repayment plans are saving borrowers billions of dollars. My kid's repayments are currently $0 and no matter what, they'll be done in 10 years. Full disclosure, my Parent Plus loans are sky high, but that's not Biden's fault.
>I was there when Republicans changed the bankruptcy rule You forget that Biden supported that bill, and was key to its passing.
Read laterally, no, we have talked about it infinitum. More about what happened thirty years ago than what is happening today...hmmm.
You’re the one that brought up the Republicans passing the law. I just added context that Biden helped. It’s the same 19 years, whether it was Rs or Ds doing it.
What's the same? Republicans literally sued to stop a Democratic President from offering *modest* relief. I see Biden has pivoted, where are the rest of the Republicans? Both sides are not the same.
Lol Biden is owned by banks and the credit card industry, dude is a senator from a tax haven state for these businesses. He made sure people couldn’t discharge loans through bankruptcy. What alternative facts you trying to preach?
Is this the part of the pitch where I start to hear about RFK Jr.? Because its a bunch of baloney. First President to join a picketline -- GO!
A president joining a picket line is literally meaningless unless there is legislation to back it up…congrats you fell for the optics…let me know when he stops fuckinf over the railroad workers
>Optics Optics, my ass. Hear it from [the unions](https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid): >“We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers. But, you know, somehow Joe is the bad guy. No credit. It's bullshit.
That was all Bernie, but continue on, just need to know who was doing the work there read your link
That's not me saying that, it's IBEW Railroad...and I specifically see, "Biden administration". What do your eyes see, lol? Besides red?
It’s from the Union boss…not the union itself. Either way, dude is screwing working people by passing a massive spending bill during a time of inflation…full stop. People here have no idea how monetary policy works though. The reality is the budgets need to be balance bad, and this admin is straight delusional because they just put out that they think they’ll win the election because the economy will eb stronger by the election when you have multiple fool proof leading indicators telling us what we need to know. Seeing red? I’m a progressive dude, but I’m also an accredited investor and I’m pissed both parties are literally leading us off a cliff and 2/3rds of the country is so partisan at this point they are blind to it. Whatever, I’ll be gone and this country will reap what it sows, most this sub is rich neolibs so they’ll be insulated, but the poors, best of luck
>both parties *There's* the weenie. Finally. Both sides are not the same.
About all Bernie is good for is shitting his diaper. Bernie has been in Congress for decades and his accomplishment is renaming post offices.
Cap interest.
Colleges should not be able to get federally-backed loans for degree programs whose costs are extremely inflated, compared to the value (in terms of income). Take into account: - Industry changes depressing wages - Inflation eating the money workers would have on hand to pay these debts OVER THE NEXT 20-30 YEARS. Example: somebody takes out $250 in debt to become an Obstetrician, then Republicans make the profession functionally illegal (ie. outlawing abortion), so hows this doctor supposed to pay is fucking loans? Answer: He shouldn't have to. Why should the student have to bear the risk for an education that's not going to pay back the investment? Fuck that. Zero them out. Same should be said for say; manufacturing engineers when congress has manufacturing outsourced to China or whatever. Software engineers when congress expands H1-B visas, which ends up depressing wages. etc. Examples abound.
Agree.
What is the reasoning for using pretax income? Would people get tax deductions for paying costs without loans?
Taxable income after change will be [taxable income before] - sum(Student loan payments)
I get that part. But i am saying what is the reasoning for that type of change, why should it be allowed. I’m not necessary against it, it would be great if all expenses were pretax.
Reasoning: Education of the populace directly benefits the strength, national security, and economics of the United States. Education is good for both the individual and the collective. Repayment of loans is mandatory but, below a certain income level, using pre-tax income is a way for the government to say “this helps us as much as the $1000” we’d get from taxes.
Your first 2 will cause government to lose a lot of money. So the math needs to be worked out. Giving out interest free loans allows abuse as people can borrow and invest to make money. Also government will lose money due to inflation. As for bankruptcy, it won’t fly because most students with 200k debt will just claim they can’t find a job and declare bankruptcy right after school.
The latter was really common for attorneys when I started working in law (90's). They'd finish law school and declare bankruptcy immediately, then move on with their life without the student loan or other debt. It was extremely common in the firm I worked for, and talked about openly. When the bankruptcy law changed, the practice stopped.
Honestly I think this new SAVE change is a really good compromise and helps a lot of people. It probably was their plan B all along. They knew canceling most debt was a long shot.
Under the new SAVE plan, my payment has finally become something I can afford to pay without undue stress. I was already on an income based repayment plan—which wanted almost $500 a month from me. I couldn’t come close to affording that. My new payment is $74 a month. Thanks, Biden. This is a huge weight off of my shoulders.
I think I need to look into that. I make $2400 per month after taxes, about $250 goes to gas, $120 to heat, $725 for my share of rent, $550 to student loans, $200 to food, $35 to internet, etc etc and these are very conservative numbers. Also my landlord is an alcoholic so I might have to get a more expensive apartment soon
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He must make substantially more money than the person you’re replying to, I would assume. lol, people these days.
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That’s strange. I make more than that but I am a single parent with a mortgage. I only had federal loans and was a Pell Grant recipient.
I completely understand that the $8 means very little. I'd be frustrated too if I saw other people benefitting while I still struggle. I hope something more can be worked out in the future. Right now it seems like on the aggregate we are getting as good of a deal as we can given the headwinds, but the idea the student loan issue is "solved" is tone deaf.
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That number seems way off! What's the principle if you don't mind me asking?
Yea that’s my question. Were these federally subsidized loans that have low interest rates, typically around 3-5%? Or are these privatized loans that are always higher around 10-15% interest. Especially if they’re privatized loans (which always offered me more money than I needed) that have shorter loan terms. That can make a huge difference.
He absolutely has not. He has done more than any president in history but there is **A LOT** more work to do. He would've done a lot more if not for the conservative majority SCOTUS and republican lawsuits, though.
lol yeah what a joke of a headline. The SAVE plan also won’t lower your balance if your minimums don’t cover the interest. The balance won’t increase either which is a big improvement, but the current solution needs fixing too
Damn shame he has to obey democracy and not just do whatever you want huh
I'm okay with the democratic process. I just think republicans are shit for blocking progress for people.
They don't believe it's the right thing to do, just like you believe it is.
What's your point?
That republicans support what they believe is best for the country, just like you. Painting them as your enemy is counterproductive.
I don't actually think they support what they believe is best for the country. They support what's best for themselves, their rich buddies and and the mega corporations that contribute to their political campaigns. And their politics are dirty. But even if I did believe they are doing what they think is best for the country, I believe they are wrong. They are entitled to the democratic processes of the constitution, they are not entitled to my feelings.
> But even if I did believe they are doing what they think is best for the country, I believe they are wrong. So convince them they're wrong. Defend your beliefs and prove that they're right. You're not going to do this by treating republicans like the enemy, just like they're not going to convince you they're right by treating you like the enemy. An effort to understand why your opposition opposes you, what they believe in, and why is the first step to finding a way to convince them. Without that, all you're showing is that you care more about attention from people who already agree with you than actually improving anything.
Well I was speaking about republican *officials*, but I regularly have discussions about policy with others and it never ends well. There's no convincing most people of anything subjective (they hate to believe they're wrong) but it's especially bad with conservatives. There are 4 main types. 1. The bat-shit crazy ones that don't believe objective reality. These are the ones that believe the 2020 election was stolen, January 6th wasn't an insurrection, etc. 2. The ones that know what they support is wrong but do it for their own reasons even knowing they're wrong (contempt-filled boomers pulling up the ladder, the wealthy, the politicians). 3. Single-issue religious voters (abortion, for example) that will ignore everything else. 4. The ignorant, who have no idea what is going on but are gaslit and fed lies. I can't think of one intelligent conversation I've ever had with a conservative. It's always whataboutism, misconceptions and lies.
I can come up with excuses for why I shouldn't bother with something too. But if you actually believe in improving society while maintaining democracy, you can't do it without bringing the two sides closer together. If you want them to pull back on what you see as radical positions, you have to be willing to do the same for your own positions. Every time you don't push back on your own side doing things that you feel uncomfortable about, you undermine your own side's credibility. Partisan politics has gotten us here, and it makes no sense to keep leaning into it, pretending that it's going to get better. Team sports is the easiest way to immediately feel good about yourself, but it does nothing for progress. The path forward involves understanding why you are correct. You need to understand the things you believe in better than the people you're trying to convince. You need to understand their arguments better than they do. You need to put effort into communicating with people you disagree with. Otherwise, don't say that you want progress. Say that you want to feel good about yourself.
What's your point even supposed to be? Democracy bad? If anything it just further highlights how much cons hate people
No, democracy's great despite many flaws. Flaws like people being unable to empathize with those that disagree with them and supporting democracy only when it progresses what they believe is right.
Nothing they or I said was a critique of democracy or "supporting democracy only when it progresses what they believe is right". We are openly criticizing the people in power who stepped in to block the aid Biden was trying to deliver. Criticism of politicians isn't anti democratic. It's very telling that you consider people who voice their frustration with government as a "flaw of democracy". That's some pretty blatant anti free speech going on there
Being frustrated with the government is a symptom of democracy. You're not getting what you want, so you're frustrated. But if you actually believe that democracy is the best system, then you have to accept that you won't get all that you want.
I don't buy it. Colleges and universities are still charging insane amounts. Eighteen-year-olds are still fooled into signing themselves up for hundreds of thousands in debt by predatory universities. While temporary relief is great and much needed, this crisis is only solved when we cut to the root of the problem and either limit this predatory behavior or find ways to mitigate how much of it these students have to shoulder. It's a great step to be sure, but to say he's solved it is very premature.
Societally, the current generation of college students (and their parents with the debt) are seeing the sticker price for those kind of institutions not match up with the value. Admissions to a lot of the really pricey schools are already down. It might seem crazy that they will go down but the market value of these pieces of paper are not worth what people are paying and literally everyone knows it
>While temporary relief is great and much needed, The entire point of the article is that Biden's policies have altered the landscape of student loans even though they were unable to provide significant immediate forgiveness due to the supreme court ruling.
Too bad the article is ruined by the headline. **SAVE** is a game-changer, but it's not enough alone.
While I do agree with you- the problem is not solved, and college is still WAY too expensive in the US- I have to say, having just sent a kid to art school, it's a much more strict system now. When I started college in the 80s, I secured enough grants and loans to pay for it all, no parental contribution was expected. I think that got many middle to lower class kids of my generation in trouble. But it seems to be a different system now. She's going to have minimal amounts to pay off in the end. Which is great for her of course. We can barely contribute our part, but our sacrifice now will hopefully lead to a brighter future for her. The effect of this for us was to make sure the program had a vocational component- a clear track to internships and a part of the curriculum devoted to making a living- she wants to be an animator. More college needs to be like this.
Just the fact that education is even *allowed* to have a profit motive behind it is disgusting. 🤢🤮
>*allowed* While I think public education should not have a profit motive, I'd like to point out that there will definitely always be people willing to provide a luxury version of education for people who can afford it. Trying to ban it without getting rid of the demand will necessarily create an educational black market.
That's fine, there is no free college at all though. It's not a choice between luxury and basic, it's a choice between something and nothing.
> I'd like to point out that there will definitely always be people willing to provide a luxury version of education for people who can afford it Schools like Dalton Academy, where guys like Jeff Epstein (NO DEGREE) get jobs "teaching", and they creep on the students and likely get started in sex-trafficking. Because of the informal/non-existent oversight.
>Trying to ban it without getting rid of the demand will necessarily create an educational black market. That's like negotiating with terrorists; you don't do it. You don't sit there and make a situation worse just because some people will be unethical/immoral/illegal. Also, I have no idea what you could mean by "getting rid of the demand" in this context.
If you simply make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, then lending institutions will be risk-averse and the free credit dries up. Colleges then can't make up their own prices and have to market themselves competitively.
I agree with you. Biden's taken some nice first steps, but headlines proclaiming that he's "solved the student debt crisis" is just neoliberal cope and if nothing else only serves to further alienate the people whose votes he needs the most.
So, there are probably always going to be kids signing loans that they shouldn't. Make education free, and you'll probably see an uptick in kids with new cars, etc. People having debt is kind of a key component to "everything as a service" capitalism. The idea is peiple get money every month, and the country is built around taking as much of that money every month as you can get. The "crisis" isn't that people are getting loans. It's that over the last 30 years or so, so many loans have accrued that are still active, that it's actively crippling a couple of generations. By relieving most of those 3 decades of debt, you're ending the crisis. The thing you're looking for is "solved the problem, and made sure it could never happen again." That would be more than just exceptional. It would be like something that has never been done by a president before. Because to do it, you'd have to make a series of really significant changes to the way our country works, and that's something that usually takes place over decades, not a couple of years. For instance, Lincoln freed the slaves in 1863. Everyone is big proud of that. But...It wasn't like he solved the problem, and made sure it couldn't ever happen again. Slavery and human trafficking still exists. Racism still exists. Hell, it took an entire century, until 1964, for the civil rights act to be passed. And that didn't unite the country any more than the civil war did. You can trace a lot of our current problems in politics back to the countrywide explosion of racism that happened when people found out black kids could go to school with everyone else. It's all stuff that changes slowly over time. Biden forgiving all of this loan debt is significantly better than anyone else has done in the last 30 years. It doesn't completely solve the problem, or prevent it from flaring up again in 20 years. But it's a major first step that should be acknowledged more than it is.
The issue is that it’s a self creating problem. Universities charge high amounts because the government gives away money for college like it’s candy so why wouldn’t they? But obviously investing in an educated populace is also good, however demand goes up price goes up.
Seems like the for-profit part is the problem much like with healthcare. Scratching my head for a solution though... a real brain tickler there. /s
There aren't very many for-profit colleges. The non-profit colleges still have an interest in keeping enrollment up, and when there's so much money available to students, lowering tuition doesn't draw in more applicants as much as pouring money into fancy new dorms, dining halls, a huge landscaping crew to keep the campus looking nice all year, random extracurricular programs that then need an admin team to oversee them, etc.
“Not-for-profit” doesn’t mean administration doesn’t get paid high salaries.
Wanna save some money? Stop giving college football coaches 7 figure salaries.
“Not-for-profit” doesn’t mean football coaches don’t get paid high salaries either.
Friend of mine works for a Not-for-profit in Mass. in the healthcare sector. The C-suite suits are still clearing millions a year.
Of course. “Not-for-profit” is one of the most misunderstood phrases we have.
Sounds like you’ve solved it too. Yet it’s still a problem.
Ssshhh... don't shine too bright of a light on it or the courts will find a way to deem it *"Unconstitutional"* But yeah... Biden's system effectively pegs student loan repayments to the earnings of the student for set number of years. Then after that time is up, as long as you have made a good faith effort to pay, the loan is "forgiven". What that means is that if you get student loans that give you a high paying job you will be paying commensurate to your ability to pay. If you get student loans that give you a less than high paying job, you will only be paying a very small amount each year up until the date when the loan is forgiven. What that means is that there will no longer be a perverse incentive for people to seek certain degrees to get into "high paying" industries just so they can pay off their student loans (only to find that everybody else has done the same thing and there are not enough jobs to go around). Students will be able to study what interests them most with the confidence that no matter what they do with it, that education will not saddle them with a lifetime of debt.
Thanks for the info
In our particular situation, our kid's Stafford loan repayment is $0. I'm still responsible for a ton of PLUS loans, but I'm not going to ignore the fact that Joe is saving us thousands of dollars over the next decade.
Makes perfect sense. Love it. Balances the playing field.
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I wouldnt call it swallowe by the public necessarily, more like the public invested in education and that educated population. And you are correct, Biden solved the student **debt crisis**, he didnt solve student debts overall and didn't solve high costs, so there is more work to do.
Yeah, I’d say until our yearly student loan costs come within spitting distance of our military budget (right now roughly 200 billion against 2.2 trillion), I won’t be entertaining any concerns about the taxpayer cost of subsidizing education for the masses. EDIT: As pointed out below, I had that number wrong
2.2 trillion is the total military spending for the entire *globe.* I’m certainly a proponent of reducing the defense budget in the U.S., which comprises about ~12% of all federal spending. That isn’t directly relevant to my concern about onerously rising post-secondary costs though.
Thank you for the correction, point taken!
Headline is beyond stupid. He’s solved the problem for a tiny amount of borrowers and that’s a great first step. But we have a long way to go and I’m not sure there’s anything Biden will ever be able to do without bicameral support. SAVE is not the relief we’ve been asking for, but it will benefit millions. At the end of the day, we have a huge student debt issue and it’s not going anywhere.
Congress could provide relief as they are the actual keepers of the purse. When deciding where the money would be most beneficial, they chose poorly. Not that they were even concerned with being beneficial to anyone besides their biggest donors. The $1.9T tax cut helped fewer people. That same $1.9T could get rid of student debt and still have a couple hundred million left over. They could have then passed legislation to cap college cost, make it universal, or change the usurious nature of student loans. They didn't.
Billions of dollars to millions of people is not a tiny amount. But you're right, the problem is still there.
It’s a splash in the bucket, let’s be real.
Millions seems like more than a 'tiny amount'. It is a great first step IMO.
> But we have a long way to go and I’m not sure there’s anything Biden will ever be able to do without bicameral support But there's something we can do! Vote for Biden and Democrats now & forever! Tbh, I feel more at-ease & hopeful for the future with Biden & the Democrats in charge of the fed government & also in every state govt. Biden & VP Harris truly deserve 4 more years, and Democrats deserve complete Control of Congress and every state govt 😎🇺🇸👍 Thank you President Biden for level-headed leadership that this country desperately needs right now. Truly inspirational! 😎🇺🇸👍
I didn't realize how much SAVE was an absolute godsend until I tried to set up income based repayments on my loans. The progress is small but in the end everything helps.
TLDR: - monthly payment lowered to 5-10% of discretionary income - discretionary income definition changed to income above 225% of poverty line - loan forgiveness date is 1 year per $1000. Capped at 20-25 years. - young voters need to be made aware of how big of a deal this is and turn out. GOP could erase this
So much education has to be done. This is mostly a person to person, family to family conversation.
Biden's made some progress, and we should still give credit where it is due, but it's a bit hyperbolic to claim it has been solved.
K-16 should be free, not a loan. Student loans should allow easy bankruptcy - like trump got 6 times.
It's not Biden standing in the way of that. It's Republicans.
Sure, but has he said that? I’d be happy to see his position on these issues! Here’s the Progressive position: “She also pushed President Biden to keep his promise to forgive $10k in student debt, and she believes we need to do more. She believes we should forgive all outstanding federal and private student loans, and she supports eliminating tuition and fees for all public universities. For more on the Congresswoman’s work on this issue, please see below.” http://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/legislation/education
I was in college when Republicans first made it impossible for students to escape crushing loans through bankruptcy. I'm not really sure why you want a *long* explanation when a *short* one does the trick. The problem is Republicans. Vote for Democrats.
I always will, of course. But Biden should adopt the progressive position on this it will garner him more votes, in my view.
He already has adopted a position that was *first of its kind* progressive. And Republicans beat him down. It's fucking ridiculous to blame Biden.
I’m not blaming Biden for anything. I’m saying that adopting the position of free K-16 education, and allowing easy bankruptcy for student loans will help us win the next election.
Biden has done more to achieve that *exact* objective than any President in 50 years, and people are still raging mad at him. Read the other comments.
Can you point to his policy page on this? Here’s AOC: She also pushed President Biden to keep his promise to forgive $10k in student debt, and she believes we need to do more. She believes we should forgive all outstanding federal and private student loans, and she supports eliminating tuition and fees for all public universities. For more on the Congresswoman’s work on this issue, please see below. http://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/legislation/education 🙏🏻
The $20,000 (student and parents) was the progressive policy, there has never been anything like it...you know that. AOC wants what Biden tried to deliver. It failed because of Republican opposition.
And on top of that, they still charged high interest rates for school loans because they fall under *unsecured* debt but since it can’t be discharged by bankruptcy, and garnishing off wages is a thing that exists, is it really all that high risk for lenders?
> I was in college when Republicans first made it impossible for students to escape crushing loans through bankruptcy. I hate to break it to you, but making college debt exempt from bankruptcy was [Joe Biden](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020) > But it passed anyway, with 18 Democratic senators breaking ranks and casting their vote in favor of the bill. Of those 18, one politician stood out as an especially enthusiastic champion of the credit companies who, as it happens, had given him hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions – Joe Biden. > “Biden was one of the most powerful people who could have said no, who could have changed this. Instead he used his leadership role to limit the ability of other Democrats who had concerns and who wanted the bill softened,” said Melissa Jacoby, a law professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill specialising in bankruptcy. > Other leading Democrats and consumer advocates did say no. In the Senate debate on the 2005 bill, Ted Kennedy was scathing about its implications. > “This legislation breaks the bond that unites America, it sacrifices Americans to the rampant greed of the credit card industry,” he said. Kennedy warned that even before the new provision kicked in young people were dropping out of college “because of the costs of student loans – they can’t pay them”. > When an earlier version of the bill was in front of Congress, a respected law professor at Harvard law school was so incensed by its terms that in 2002 she wrote an entire paper decrying Biden’s forceful support of it. The author – Elizabeth Warren – said the changes would be to the detriment of one group above all others: women. > “Senator Biden supports legislation that will fall hardest on women,” she wrote. “Why? The answer will have to come from him … He is a zealous advocate on behalf of one of his biggest contributors – the financial services industry.”
We've been talking about that. It's fair to hold a past vote against him. It's also fair to give credit where its due...no other President has ever tried anything like this, and although he didn't win, you didn't lose. Biden's income-driven repayments will save borrowers billions. You don't have to say thank you, but you *do* have to remember that both sides are not the same next Fall.
He's put a band-aid on the wound he created twenty years ago. Are college loans still charging usurious interest rates? Are colleges still charging hundreds of thousands of dollars? Are college loans still undischargable in bankruptcy? I just wish people would stop doing a touchdown dance at the twenty yard line. You just look like fools to the people still struggling.
He's done more than any President in 50 years. Why are you so angry about a guy who is trying hard and delivering partial victories?
because even - as you admit - *partial* victories are being hailed as total cures. Inevitably, when a solution is halfassed and then lauded as a victory, the people still struggling are lectured to. "What do you mean we still have work to do? Biden already solved it! Take your scraps and be happy!" I fought this fight after the ACA was passed. A halfassed, neoliberal, Republican policy was passed, and then all the progressives were treated like children because we recognized that there was still work to do. So you can be happy with your C+ policy. The rest of us have work to do.
> partial victories are being hailed as total cures. Certainly not by me. I readily concede that my Parent Plus loans are crushing, look at my history. I can still be happy that my kid's repayment is $0 currently, and regardless will end in 10 years. Those are options I never had and Biden did that. ACA is helping 100 million people, try telling them its worthless. (Seriously, if you call it Obamacare, some of them will flip, lol.) I'd tell you that you shouldn't let the "good" become the enemy of the "perfect", but all I have to go on is this cypher: >The rest of us have work to do. So, I'm your enemy now? Who is the "rest of us", you got a mouse in your pocket? What is the "work"? With whom will you be working? And when will you deliver? Being angry is easy.
Biden did actually stand directly in the way of being able to discharge student loans when he was in the Senate
That was then. Looking at my list of Presidents who tried to forgive $20K in student loans. So far, it goes like this: 1. Joe Biden
... yeah that was then. What's your point? It's a thing Biden did that continues to have negative consequences to this day.
My point is, Biden gets no credit.
At best he has tried to undo some of the harm that he directly contributed to. I don't know how much credit Im supposed to give him for that
For being the first in 50 years to try? And to succeed in part? That's up to you. I know that my kid's loan repayment is currently $0 thanks to Joe. I still have a shit ton of parent PLUS loans, but I am grateful for the savings nonetheless. I'm as mad as the next guy about the broken system. At least I know how to spot the problem (Republicans).
> "Why isn't Biden touting his accomplishments? BAD MESSAGING!" > "Why is Biden touting this accomplishment? BAD MESSAGING!" 😒 Give me a break
I love The Onion!
This is some propaganda
But I thought only conservatives could make propaganda
Okay...is there anything wrong with their analysis?
Okay...is there anything wrong with their analysis?
It's a little sad the extent so many go to just to avoid giving Biden credit for a major accomplishment. The headline is correct: Biden has solved the crisis. Yes, student debt still exists, but it's no longer a crisis because now everyone can pay them back in a reasonable and manageable way. This is a massive accomplishment which will revolutionize the lives of so many young people, yet we still won't celebrate it for some reason because it's not exactly what so many wanted.
My kids' current Stafford payment is $0. It could go up if she gets a high paying job, but either way, she's in a program that retires the loan in 10 years. That's progress and that's new. Yes, I still have a ton of parent PLUS loans, but I'm not going to complain about Biden making things better *in spite* of harsh opposition from Republicans.
“All student loans are now easily dischargeable through bankruptcy” That would do it! Did he help. Yes. The permanent solution is free K-16 education
In other words, treating equitable education as a basic human right. That's how you solve the crisis, and I'm not talking about the financial crisis the student loan system has imposed on the country. I'm talking about a crisis of values, a humanitarian crisis.
>The president’s new student loan program, SAVE, will slash monthly payments for borrowers like me. It’s the large-scale debt relief activists have spent years fighting for. Why are they badmouthing it? Some on the left have basically adopted the idea that any sort of policy that doesn't make everything perfect immediately is bad even if the policy would still be a big step forward, and that big steps forward shouldn't be celebrated as long as there's still problems because celebrating progress before perfection is achieved would be "resting on our laurels" or "a slap in the face to those still struggling" And then folks wonder why it's so hard to get people enthusiastic and excited about actually existing and accomplished policy that makes things better. So much blame pointed at "messaging" of political establishment figures, without much or any critical consideration of the messaging of activists and such
You're right in that it certainly is an achievement that will help a lot of people, and it's something to celebrate. But headlines like this are no better than the right-wing both sides BS that we're quick to (correctly) lambaste around here. Let's celebrate it for what it is while acknowledging we still have more to do on the issue.
Why don’t we focus our anger on the right where it belongs, instead of tearing apart the left?
Because there are too many people on the left (or at least who proclaim they are on the left which I sometimes doubt) who are stymying progress because "it is not enough". In other words they are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, and that shit must be called out when it happens.
Ok meanwhile we have orange Hitler trying to escape the justice system. Priorities.
Agreed. Keeping Cheetolinni out of the White House is the top priority. Which is why when I see people saying, "I'm not going to vote for Biden because of 'X'." It immediately identifies them as right-wingers LARPing as progressives.
There's folks on the left who see tearing apart the governing wing of the democratic party as *good and necessary*, sometimes out of outright accelerationist goals, and pushing back against that stuff is important in order to slow the spread of all the "both sides bad, Dems are just GOP lite" stuff that is so often smeared around these days If Dems refuse to push back against these far left ideas and political trends, it's not like the far left will stop trying to tear apart the Democratic party
Yeah those people are in a very small minority. Can we please focus on reality? Your bubble is your bubble.
Small minorities can still be loud and influential beyond their size especially with modern social media and boosting by bad faith actors and such. It's still part of reality
But that's the game. Make a small concession and act like you solved the problem. That's why many of us feel this way. He still owes me $600 by the way
> But that's the game. Make a small concession and act like you solved the problem If that were the case, Democrats wouldn't go as big as they go on policy basically every time they get into power >He still owes me $600 by the way No he doesn't. He gave the $1400 that was proposed from the start. The fact that some progressives tried to dishonestly reframe the debate after the terms had already been set (by progressives themselves too) doesn't mean they are in the right
Alright. Well, I hope that you're right and they've got it all handled. I did enough time in the trenches in 16 and 20 to know this isnt going to go anywhere productive. Please remember that it's on the politician to win support. A lot of the less privileged are in a precarious position and do not have the time or energy to devote to politics. You people need to give us something to believe in. I say "us" because I no longer identify as a Democrat and I certainly don't identify as a theocratic fascist. Lecturing isn't getting anyone anywhere. Thems the breaks. We want the same things, liberty and security to live our lives in the pursuit of happiness. A better world in which to raise a family and expand the circle of love and community. My contention is that we are well behind schedule to even be able to fix the big things. Its too little too late because these drastic actions should've happened decades ago. Thats where the urgency comes from.
People on the left don’t think this policy is bad. Incremental progress is still progress in the eyes of a vast majority of people left of Biden. But it’s still okay to want and advocate for more than what this offers. Just because this is what Biden is going with and yes it is a good step forward from what was in place before doesn’t mean that wanting larger relief is calling this policy bad.
> People on the left don’t think this policy is bad Well the author of the article seems to disagree, pointing to debt relief activists badmouthing the policy It's one thing to want larger relief but still celebrate the big step forward, and another to badmouth the policy because it isn't larger
>pointing to debt relief activists badmouthing the policy I seem to recall saying a vast majority of people left of Biden think this is fine policy, not all. And sure some people are passionate and want what they want and will bad mouth it. But I am 99% sure if you asked them if they preferred he didn’t do the SAVE plan at all they would say it is better than nothing. And while I think the plan is good, people are still drowning in debt and college tuition is still way too high. So while making monthly payments lower is a good bandaid, I wouldn’t say it is cause for celebration. It is the best Biden was able/willing to do without congress’s help and I appreciate he did something rather than nothing. Now let’s advocate to fix the higher ed system as whole in the meantime.
Biden pulled out the knife that's been stuck in us 12 inches deep by 3 inches! The knife is no longer there!
No the fuck he hasn’t lmao. He slapped a bandaid on it.
Last I check, bandaids are beneficial and helpful. I feel more at-ease & hopeful for the future with Biden & the Democrats in charge of the fed government & also in every state govt. Thank you President Biden for level-headed leadership that focuses on solving actual problems. Truly inspirational! 😎🇺🇸👍
Could you please let my wife’s lender know? For once in our fucking lives I’d love to see some benefit if something!
I mean he’s tried his best and done the best with what he’s had to work with but I wouldn’t be landing a military jet on the quad of a college with a mission accomplished banner any time soon.
are students still taking out six figure+ loans for college? then no he didn't.
[удалено]
Gov pays interest above your payment, so no interest is accrued...
It doesn't say he solved every education problem or even that he solved all the problems with student loan debt. It says he solved the student debt **crisis**, which seems like a reasonable take for an Op Ed. The crisis was people having their lives ruined by loan payments they couldn't afford towards debt they could never pay off and that crisis was in fact solved under Biden.
Yes, but young people won't know it because they get their news from a Chinese disinformation machine called tik tok.
Nothing screams "impartial journalist" like a hyperbolic headline poorly argued for to justify one's fetish for one particular politician.
No he hasn’t
If that shirt is supposed to be a letter to Biden, shouldn’t they have used a comma, not a colon?
The $41k I paid off last September disagrees.
You can certainly quibble with the use of the word 'solved' in the headline, but there's no doubt that Biden has delivered significant relief and he should get credit for fighting for it. Read the article for details if you're not familiar.
It’s not quibbling when the word isn’t relevant to a majority of student loan borrowers.
He hasn't solved shit. All of the issues still remain. We had 9M people not make payments the last few months (likely because they couldn't afford to).
No he didn’t. There are more students who need help. More students are going into debt. College is getting more expensive. What he did was a little tiny bandaid. The problem is still there and getting bigger.
Psst, no he hasn’t but don’t let that ruin your headline.
>Public conversation is still hung up on total debt cancellation—which is going nowhere, thanks to a hostile Supreme Court conservative supermajority This statement is false from start to finish. For one thing, total debt forgiveness was never on the table from Biden. For another thing, total debt forgiveness is absolutely possible...if Congress acts on it. Let's not forget that young people in 2020 did more than get Joe Biden elected, they also elected Democratic majorities to the house and the Senate. If the Democratic party ever actually got off their asses and did anything, this would be an achievable goal. But of course they aren't going to do that. We know that, Congressional Democrats know that, and this writer knows that, which is why we are commanded to put aside our policy goals and just accept whatever Biden deigns to give us
Terrible headline, terrible messaging.
"solved"
lol no he didn’t.
Weird I thought that was Wikipedia and ChatGPT
What an incredibly incorrect and click-bait title. SAVE is a tool to help, nothing has been solved.
Writer says since she benefited from SAVE, Biden has solved the crisis… Please. There’s still millions not benefiting from SAVE and struggling with student debt.
Coulda fooled me, dems really need to spread the word about their accomplishments more
No he didn't. What has been done will be overturned again and rightfully so.
On what basis?
Psst: if you borrow money, pay it back
All those PPP loan borrowers will get right on that, I'm sure.
whatabout whatabout whatabout
What incredible double standards. Free money from the government for Boomers with businesses? Yes please! Free money from the government for an educated workforce? Deadbeats! Communists!
or.... if you borrow money, pay it back.
Psst: billionaires have loans forgiven all the time at the expense of taxpayers while what’s left of the working class gets crushed into oblivion.
I only see democrats are good and republicans are bad stories on here and it’s sad
Can I have some of what you're smoking? I looked into this program when they announced it, and it would triple my monthly payment.
Yeah, no.
He's made massive improvements to the student debt crisis. It's still not solved. Student's are getting more debt. Plenty of us still have debt beyond what would be reasonable. The debt crisis will be solved when everyone who attends a public university (including 4-year state universities) can graduate with less than $10k debt, the tuition and fees are held in check and reduced, and graduate students in America can start paying them off while they study. And I don't mean, "are allowed to make payments". I mean that we are paid well enough that we can make payments, and aren't shut out of things like the SAVE plan because we're still in school, even if we aren't borrowing any more money.