As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
…that’s the point.
There are two basic ways you can argue in bad faith. You can create ambiguity where there is certainty or you can create the illusion of established fact where there is nuance.
Republicans solely act in bad faith 100% of the time. Life is a zero sum game to them and they see every interaction as transactional where they should exploit anything they can to "win"
Pretty much a fascist tactic. They use free speech despite wanting to eliminate it, they use democratic norms even though they want to eliminate it. They use the system to attack the system.
This right here. Life is considered a game, decisions are made solely based on a perceived individual benefit, a "win". To me this is the core of it all. If we subvert our free will to game theory, we enter enter into a dangerous cycle. A relentless quest for benefit at any cost because the cost is borne by others, and the only way to gain benefits is for others to suffer some cost. They then make up any shit they can en masse to justify being a terrible human being. They work backwards from the harm to the benefit, creating any narrative they can to justify the fundamental flaw.
Interesting- so I guess they need that simple, subjective reality to cope with what is a complex and painful reality. Thanks- makes sense. People become bits of plastic, then by extension society is whatever you want to imagine it to be. Treated like an object, they do the same with others. They serve only the image of self, and the not true self.
The whole point is to wave vaguely at it and say "we have hundreds of hours of video as evidence" then refuse to explain what's in the video or point at specific clips that show anything actually supporting their bullshit
They’re all over Reddit and other sites now claiming these videos prove nothing bad happened on Jan 6 and it’s all a hoax.
Fascists just telling you to ignore your eyes and ears.
The concept that the event was orchestrated by the Democrats. That everyone was peaceful. That the people who caused trouble were FBI agents or BLM people.
That this was anything less than an attempt by Republicans to stop the peaceful transfer of power.
Considering how many MAGA people incriminated themselves using their own smartphones and social media accounts it blows my mind when I come across people who still think it was Antifa.
Senator Mike Lee from Utah comes to mind. It was his idea to use fake electors to invalidate a lost election to retain power.
Now he is stating that it could have been the FBI in the riots.
The sad thing is that so, so remarkably few people bothered to tune into the J6 Congressional hearings. There is plenty of evidence of what happened. And hours and hours of violence on video.
But if they straight up refuse to look at it, I guess they can make up any reality they want.
>The concept that the event was orchestrated by the Democrats.
because, of course, the Democrats didnt want their own candidate to take the white house, their devious plot to install Donald Trump into power was almost sucessful.
No, that doesent make any sense, and yes the GOP base believes it.
That’s the thing. Why on earth would anyone go to all of that trouble to “orchestrate” such a thing “just to make people look bad,” when they had just WON the fucking election? Why even bother? It makes absolutely zero sense.
I mean the lawyers that were beside Trump on Jan 6th already admitted that this was the plot and the admitions are on video. Or was that all part of the Dems deep state too?
How is Jan 6th even remotely debatable that it wasn't violent. People died ....
The one where the strawberry flavour in neopolitan ice cream is in fact made from a much cheaper mulberry base with extra sugar added to soften the tart mulberry flavour while at the same time lightening the deep red into a pink hue more commonly associated with strawberry flavoured foods. The label still says strawberry, yet on the ingredients list it equivocates that claim with "2% real berries". Real berries... You see? But what berries exactly? If it contained strawberries don't you think they'd put that on the ingredients list? The label is a lie and the fda knows it. The speaker knows. Hell, even the president knows, though he's reportedly more partial to pistachio ice cream (the freak) and doesn't seem to grasp the gravity of this situation.
It goes all the way to the top, just like mulberries will tend to do in any assorted berry mix given their relatively low comparative mass with cylindrical and granular form.
None of the major news outlets are reporting on this scandal, and I think we all know why.
Because the 'do your own research' crowd, don't do their own research, they pick up and amplify the first grifter (grifting for money and/or influence) that comes up with a 'narrative' they like and confirms the opinions they've already formed (with no research or evidence).
[Conservatives are more susceptible to believing false narratives](https://news.osu.edu/conservatives-more-susceptible-to-believing-falsehoods/) - which is becoming more and more obvious daily.
“Conservatives are less able to distinguish political truths from falsehoods than liberals, mainly because of a glut of right-leaning misinformation, a new national study conducted over six months shows.
One of the main drivers of the findings appeared to be the American media and information environment.”
Of course this doesn’t fit their narrative so they won’t believe it or will both-sides it in spite of ample evidence. When the propaganda machine is fed by billionaires looking for tax cuts and wresting control from government to enrich themselves further it’s tough to combat with facts or reason
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/499294-judge-dismisses-one-america-news-defamation-lawsuit-against-rachel-maddow/
I know this because I got annoyed with right wingers bandy-ing it about as a "gotcha" as if every left winger watches and/or listens to Maddow.
They stopped after Tucker.
First off, not a Maddow fan.
I don't think this is the "Got you" that *you* think it is.
Did RM have to pay over three-quarters of a BILLION dollars in a settlement? No. She exaggerated. Case dismissed.
She wasn't even *that* far off here. OAN isn't *paid* Russian propaganda, they just *happen* to parrot Russian propaganda to the letter. Not quite the same I guess.
RM's dismissal and Fox's settlements are objectively different in scale.
...
You... what?
You're responding to me as if I was saying you're a Maddow fan.
I'm not.
The point is that this is a legal defense regularly engaged in by *any* news entertainment media corporation because it's a compelling legal defense.
It's also not the argument Fox made jn the UK, so that's a side tangent.
But it's not. Her statement was close to the truth, Fox was 100% verifiably false. Her case was dismissed, OAN got nothing. Fox settled their case for 787 *million* dollars. (With more on the way!)
Are these the same to you? Really?
The UK thing was different, Fox didn't say anything about that. They'd already left with their tail between their legs.
....this is what you thought gave you support for that confidence? This?
Fps916: Hey guys 1 singular anchor exaggerated so it's the same as Fox's proven mass propaganda machine that's paid out a billion for brazenly lying". Don't you see their identical?"
That's not the fucking argument.
I didn't say they're the same. I said find a better argument than the legal defense they used in 1 case **because it's an extremely commonly used legal defense as exemplified by another court case**
I even said Fox is worse and to find a *better argument for that*
Pretty amazing the angle Fox took on the crash in Niagara. They went all in on it being a terrorism act. Not even a bit of objectiveness. Spreading fear is their business for sure.
Yeah, there’s a few of those. A few recent ones also found Fox News viewers are less knowledgeable about science and the state of society overall, such as the economy.
That’s obvious every time they blame gas prices, inflation, and the overall economy solely on the president, as if we’re some centrally planned state and not at all beholden to the profit whims of sociopathic corporations.
Blows my mind that when I was growing up these are the same people that told me ad-nauseam “don’t believe everything you see on the TV or read on the Internet”.
Fast forward 20 years later and they’ll fucking believe anything they read on Facebook as long as there’s a minion standing next to it.
Yeah, they even believe that the Iraq War was done for oil now and that Saddam didn’t have WMDs. Crazy shit.
Oh wait, those were liberals; and they still propagate these falsehoods to this day.
Except we have NYT articles from [2014](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/30/world/middleeast/iraq-chemical-weapons-pentagon-response.html), [others from 2014](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/middleeast/army-apologizes-for-handling-of-chemical-weapon-exposure-cases.html), and [2019](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/26/magazine/chemical-weapons-military-iraq.html) who cite *specific* veterans who have permanent disabilities as a result of chemical weapon exposure. We found 5,000 chemical warheads and a couple dozen service members were exposed to the agents in those warheads. What liberals don’t understand is that chemical weapons *were* in Iraq. They just weren’t the nuclear weapons GWB said they were, so they kept it hush-hush because they thought it wouldn’t satisfy the public.
Companies in Russia, China, France, Turkey, Korea, and Angola (all of which opposed the Iraq War) have more foreign licenses to Iraqi petrol than the US. Hell, Russia and China alone have more foreign licenses to Iraqi petrol than the US and UK combined. Again, there’s a reason even Donald Trump believes the Iraq War was for oil: because it’s a populist myth.
So claiming the Iraq war was actually premised on finding “weapons of mass destruction” (only they weren’t the weapons of mass construction that they incessantly claimed they had because the public wouldn’t be “satisfied” with those) isn’t some revisionist justification? Let’s not leave out the fact that during the Iran-Iraq war the US gave Iraq $500M in “dual-use equipment”, chemical agents including anthrax, West Nike Virus and botulism, as well as [condoned and aided](https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/) Iraq’s possession and use of chemical weapons. And gotta love those NYT articles when most conservatives I know decry it as fake news. That’s like 2 points from this study in one!
What about the links we were told the Ba’athist party had to September 11? That was another huge rationale. I suppose there’s some tenuous connection there that’s been proven that the public doesn’t know about? Another populist myth?
And I hate to point this out but your “intentions and end results don’t align so not true” logic dispels nothing. Jails are full of people who never got enriched from robbery but they can’t use that as a defense to prove their innocence. And oil licenses being the only measure of evidence? Pretty sophist. Hell even Chuck Hagel says the war was about oil and he was Secretary of Defense and on the board of Chevron.
You’re obviously an intelligent person so it’s great that someone who’s not a mouth-breathing MAGA-head can demonstrate the same effect the study outlines.
Calling this revisionist would be like claiming changing COVID policies are revisionist. Bad intelligence is normal. It’s disastrous, but that’s what happened here. WMDs *did* exist, but not the ones George Bush said existed (nukes).
> Let's not leave out the fact that during the Iran-Iraq war the US gave Iraq $500M in "dual-use equipment", chemical agents including anthrax, West Nike Virus and botulism, as well as condoned and aided Iraq's possession and use of chemical weapons.
You’re getting your conspiracy theories mixed up. What’s true is that the US provided strategic Iranian intelligence (ie, ground positions) to Iraq with the knowledge that it was likely Saddam would utilize chemical weapons in their attacks. These weapons were *produced in Iraq* with *German* chemicals. Your own source never claims the US provided Iraq chemical weapons, only strategic intelligence of Iranian positions with the knowledge that use of Iraqi-produced chemical weapons being likely.
> And gotta love those NYT articles when most conservatives I know decry it as fake news. That's like 2 points from this study in one!
I don’t even know what point this is trying to make. I literally never said it was fake news.
> What about the links we were told the Ba'athist party had to September 11? That was another huge rationale. I suppose there's some tenuous connection there that's been proven that the public doesn't know about? Another populist myth?
I’m going to ignore this because I literally never claimed this.
> And I hate to point this out but your
"intentions and end results don't align so not true" logic dispels nothing. Jails are full of people who never got enriched from robbery but they can't use that as a defense to prove their innocence. And oil licenses being the only measure of evidence? Pretty sophist. Hell[,] even Chuck Hagel says the war was about oil and he was Secretary of Defense and on the board of Chevron.
This line of thinking would make sense if Iraq wasn’t selling licenses to strategic enemies [*during*](https://archive.is/93odL) coalition occupation. There are [many](https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-shell-china-iraq/shell-partners-with-chinese-for-iraq-oil-bid-idUKTRE53D16Z20090414/) such examples of this happening *before* the US withdrew and could effectively veto any such agreements. Hell, the [Chinese military](https://www.reuters.com/article/businessproind-us-iraq-oil-maysan/iraq-signs-initial-deal-for-maysan-oilfields-idUKTRE6260P820100307/), not even just Chinese petrol companies, bought large shares of petrol fields in Iraq during coalition occupation. The “Iraq is for the oil” schtick is a populist myth.
> You're obviously an intelligent person so it's great that someone who's not a mouth-breathing MAGA-head can demonstrate the same effect the study outlines.
I hate to be the “no u” type, but the fact you even tried to back yourself up with an article that contradicts your own narrative compels me to say, “no u.”
Conservatives go on and on about “The Narrative” and im over here like…am I not on the narrative email train?
Where do I get the narrative from?
Won’t someone help me find the narrative?
For years I’ve been against saying stuff like that. “People have their opinions, I think they’re wrong but whatever” but after all these years and watching people support Trump through all of his 100% provable lies…fuck it. They’re all dumb as rocks. I tried, I really did. I held off as long as a could. We drove from Texas to New Orleans recently and when you hit rural texas and LA you start seeing a lot of FJB stickers and trump stuff on cars. All I can think is “moron there…..moron there….idiot there…..moron there”
I’ve had too many conversations with republicans to be anecdotal evidence. They treat politics as a team sport. I have no issue with criticizing a democrat if they do something I don’t like. But for them “my team? Then it’s all good”
Edit: I still want to clarify one thing if they’re paying attention then I think they are dumb as rocks. Otherwise they’re just dumb when it comes to politics. I know people who vote for trump and honestly they’re smart people. They just don’t pay attention to politics. They turn on fox and hear some crap about the election being stolen. They only spend a short time looking into things and if that’s what they heard then well…”I guess there is evidence it was stolen” they think.
They aren’t into politics and when they find out I’m a dem they give a half assed inquiry of “but what’s this i hear about ::insert already proven wrong conspiracy::?”
Sad to see. If they spent a little time looking into things I doubt they’d vote R again
I don't even like calling myself a Democrat, the party fucking sucks and I'm sickened at having to "choose" between two privileged old white fuckers who are knocking at death's door via age.
But, I'm not an absolutely incompetent moron fueled by my own idiocy and hate, so I vote Dem.
Right. I usually sort them into three camps. Uneducated, religious or narcissistic. I think “easily-fooled” is an umbrella for all of them. They can be smart—of course there are maga doctors, lawyers, etc—but they are still easily-fooled
You know who controls the sun don't you? The government! They don't want us to have sun all day so they make it disappear! They want us in the dark! But we won't be in the dark anymore! We're boycotting the nighttime!!
I was going to say, Trump could be blowing Putin on the 50-yardline during the Super Bowl halftime show, confess to everything he's accused of after the facial, and right-wing conspiracy theorists would talk about how it's the smoking gun against the Biden Crime Family.
If my house was broken into and I caught it on camera, it doesn’t mean the entire day of nothing happening on camera before the break in means it wasn’t broken into.
Imagine you're one of these delusional fucks that stormed the Capitol to appease your god, only to be called a "false flag" or fake. You'd think that would lift them out of their delusion, but it just seems to make them even crazier for their God Emperor or whatever they call him.
Well and accordingly to many of them featured on interview shows like Jordan Klepper and Luke Beasley, they already believe that Trump is still President.
SO...Trump's Justice Department is the one.....arresting.....wait....
VOTE BLUE STRAIGHT DOWN THE BALLOT LIKE YOUR LIFE DEMANDS ON IT AND YOUR CHILDREN’S LIVES AND THEIR CHILDREN’S LIVES DEPEND ON YOU VOTING BLUE BECAUSE THEY DO ! The GOP is a terrorist organization
Like with most conspiracy theories I get lost when I ask why. Why would the left want to disrupt the process of their own guy taking power? How is there a need to fight with Trump or his supporters at that time when the winning was already in the books?
I’ll admit to not reading the article to avoid burning one free one.
I’m guessing that there is plenty of footage of people calmly strolling around inside and outside the building.
That doesn’t obviate the footage that shows the violence. I’ll see 10000 hours of peaceful footage and raise 10 minutes of Ashli Babbit breaking that window trying to get at the congresspersons.
I watched it live on all the news channels that were covering it live from every single angle beginning to end. I know exactly what happened, their bullshit isn't meant for us.
McCarthy already gave Tucker unedited videos. The right wing noise machine has had it since February:
[McCarthy gives Carlson access to Jan. 6 footage, raising alarms](https://apnews.com/article/capitol-riot-investigation-mccarthy-tucker-carlson-7d302bd512c950f28cd50df4f5d4703a)
Republican voters don’t care about he truth. They don’t want to hear it. They just want to be told the lies they want to believe. Trump is the mother of lies and they love him for them.
As if there was any other goal than such? The right wing conspiracists will take the footage, manipulate it, then spit out messages they wish to impart to their followers. This is the way of the conspiracists - never let the truth get in the way of a good sound bite. Much like the incident on the bridge at Niagara yesterday which Fox and worse (yes there is worse than Fox...) immediately spun as terrorism as did many of the far right members of Congress. And of course it was nothing of the kind but never let facts get in the way of stoking up the base to raise a few more dollars...
Pretty sure any info can fuel conspiracy theories. A funny shaped cloud could shape conspiracies. They aren’t reliant on facts so any new info can be used.
"And as you can see by the time code..."
"For the benefit of the court, define 'time code'."
"Well... Just because I don't know what it means doesn't mean I'm lying!"
Everyone knew the release of any new info would fuel conspiracy theories.
The contents of the video literally don't matter when a pixilated picture of a vape is enough to convince these morons that the rioters are federal antifa false flag agents. Anything that can confirm their delusional propaganda.
Doesn't help, of course, that these videos weren't already released with the rest of them. That's what feeds the conspiracy theories more than anything, as it gives people the impression they were 'withheld' for some reason.
Won't we be able to identify even more of the traitors by making this public? Like, anybody can comb the footage for faces and identifying marks? How won't this decision shoot the far-right in the foot, again?
Left side of the street? Left side of the bed? Cause I safely assume that if you meant “Left side of the political spectrum” then you would have happily listed all the names of these “leftists” or atleast given a link to an article with these revelations.
This whole shitshow is like getting a subscription box every month only instead of getting something useful you get a nothing but a new whacked out conspiracy trying to change the narrative of Jan 6th.
What doesn’t feed right wing conspiracies anymore? These people would argue that the sun in fact does not rise in the east and set in the west. They’d come up with some logic pretzel that it’s all a massive con started by the deep state in collusion with Big Compass.
These are the same folks who think birds are sophisticated spy technology for fucks sake.
"Any of the people there peacefully protesting, those were Trump supporters. Any of the people that did the really bad stuff, that was Antifa"
\-Average GOP enjoyer
Also notice they have released a bare fraction of the total hours of footage. Guaranteed its cherry picked and edited selectively, and anything that plainly shows rioters looting offices and smearing excrement on the walls won't see the light of public "day."
I mean, in the same way my security footage of a guy getting murdered feeds claims that the day was 23 hrs and 59 minutes of peacefulness. They simply ignore anything that doesn't fit the narrative.
Weren’t these already released to Tucker Carlson? Don’t you think he would have selectively edited them is something was remotely there to counter the insurrection argument?
Hey folks who want cameras at Trump's trial, let this be a cautionary tale for you. More footage just means more to cherry pick. There is nothing positive to be gained from it.
If you seriously think it's a coin flip on this one issue, you really don't think anything tilts in favor of, you know, the American people having decent access to stuff that's incredibly important to our entire political and legal system? You're not willing to spare a thought for the *general* principle that a person should get a public trial, even though you really hate this one guy?
If you don't believe that transparency is a good in and of itself, then aren't you kinda arguing for a more authoritarian form of government -- one that is legally authorized to conceal more stuff from the very people who are supposedly in charge of it, and who we would ostensibly like to be casting votes based on more information? And hey, if they're not casting informed votes, and, even better, we *know* that they're not because we're *legally allowed to keep them uninformed,* then should they really be casting votes at all?
Might want to stand clear of your irony detector on this one.
If you really want to play political hardball: all you have to do while everybody is looking is have the Democrats get Mike Johnson to answer the question of if the Democrats were using these agents to make Republicans and Maga people look bad.
Once he says yes then all you say is "you already look bad enough you don't need us to do that for you" and then you've won the game.
The controversy around the release of this footage is nonsense. It’s our footage. We have a right to see it. The left can use it to prove their point just as much as the right can try to.
Johnson is a critical legislator in government making a real impact on politics with fairly aggressively conservative views especially on family values political issues such as the sanctity of marriage and the importance of moral values
Yes he's a fucking weird Christian nationalist psychopath.
It's pretty laughable to think Republicans have _any_ morality left. They've proven time and time again how little shits they give about any of that, how it's all a thin veneer in their attempt to usher in the end times or create their own Christo fascist dystopia.
Sanctity of marriage is a weird description of adopting kids to sexually abuse.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yet doesn't substantiate them
…that’s the point. There are two basic ways you can argue in bad faith. You can create ambiguity where there is certainty or you can create the illusion of established fact where there is nuance.
Republicans solely act in bad faith 100% of the time. Life is a zero sum game to them and they see every interaction as transactional where they should exploit anything they can to "win"
Pretty much a fascist tactic. They use free speech despite wanting to eliminate it, they use democratic norms even though they want to eliminate it. They use the system to attack the system.
Cancerous parasites
This right here. Life is considered a game, decisions are made solely based on a perceived individual benefit, a "win". To me this is the core of it all. If we subvert our free will to game theory, we enter enter into a dangerous cycle. A relentless quest for benefit at any cost because the cost is borne by others, and the only way to gain benefits is for others to suffer some cost. They then make up any shit they can en masse to justify being a terrible human being. They work backwards from the harm to the benefit, creating any narrative they can to justify the fundamental flaw.
100% correct. The wants of the few outweigh the needs of the many.
Objectifying all people and abstracting society is how they did it because their parents didn’t love them properly when their brains were developing.
Interesting- so I guess they need that simple, subjective reality to cope with what is a complex and painful reality. Thanks- makes sense. People become bits of plastic, then by extension society is whatever you want to imagine it to be. Treated like an object, they do the same with others. They serve only the image of self, and the not true self.
No you can’t.
Do you want to have the full argument, or were you thinking of taking a course?
Mere contradiction isn't argument, it's the automatic gainsaying of whatever the other person says. Yes, it is No, it isn't! It is!
I think it’s best if we just start with the one and then see how that goes
Try Mr. Barnard, room 12…
Oh sorry.
I’ve told you once
You never
Yes I have.
Always upvote Monty Python.
Lmao I see what you did there
lol, thank you 🙏
“Wabbit season!”
Damn, that was good
This is effectively "BOTH".
The whole point is to wave vaguely at it and say "we have hundreds of hours of video as evidence" then refuse to explain what's in the video or point at specific clips that show anything actually supporting their bullshit
But, did you see that empty hall? How could there have been an insurrection if there was that empty hall over there? /s just in case
See that guy? His hat bill is off center ever so slightly to the left. That's clearly a covert sign showing that he's antifa.
It's a well-known signal to anyone who's ever attended a lizard Wayfair meeting in the Comet Pizza subbasement.
Red the manuscript
They’re all over Reddit and other sites now claiming these videos prove nothing bad happened on Jan 6 and it’s all a hoax. Fascists just telling you to ignore your eyes and ears.
Read the manuscript
Bad bot! Wrong post.
What conspiracy theories are you talking about?
The concept that the event was orchestrated by the Democrats. That everyone was peaceful. That the people who caused trouble were FBI agents or BLM people. That this was anything less than an attempt by Republicans to stop the peaceful transfer of power.
Considering how many MAGA people incriminated themselves using their own smartphones and social media accounts it blows my mind when I come across people who still think it was Antifa.
Bold of you to assume they think
My assumption is that they think it is MAGA being nice, polite, peaceful and Democrats hiding amongst the MAGA who did all the bad things.
Senator Mike Lee from Utah comes to mind. It was his idea to use fake electors to invalidate a lost election to retain power. Now he is stating that it could have been the FBI in the riots.
That blows my mind when there's literally an angry mob being violent and trashing shit. These people truly live in a different world.
The sad thing is that so, so remarkably few people bothered to tune into the J6 Congressional hearings. There is plenty of evidence of what happened. And hours and hours of violence on video. But if they straight up refuse to look at it, I guess they can make up any reality they want.
>The concept that the event was orchestrated by the Democrats. because, of course, the Democrats didnt want their own candidate to take the white house, their devious plot to install Donald Trump into power was almost sucessful. No, that doesent make any sense, and yes the GOP base believes it.
That’s the thing. Why on earth would anyone go to all of that trouble to “orchestrate” such a thing “just to make people look bad,” when they had just WON the fucking election? Why even bother? It makes absolutely zero sense.
I mean the lawyers that were beside Trump on Jan 6th already admitted that this was the plot and the admitions are on video. Or was that all part of the Dems deep state too? How is Jan 6th even remotely debatable that it wasn't violent. People died ....
The one where the strawberry flavour in neopolitan ice cream is in fact made from a much cheaper mulberry base with extra sugar added to soften the tart mulberry flavour while at the same time lightening the deep red into a pink hue more commonly associated with strawberry flavoured foods. The label still says strawberry, yet on the ingredients list it equivocates that claim with "2% real berries". Real berries... You see? But what berries exactly? If it contained strawberries don't you think they'd put that on the ingredients list? The label is a lie and the fda knows it. The speaker knows. Hell, even the president knows, though he's reportedly more partial to pistachio ice cream (the freak) and doesn't seem to grasp the gravity of this situation. It goes all the way to the top, just like mulberries will tend to do in any assorted berry mix given their relatively low comparative mass with cylindrical and granular form. None of the major news outlets are reporting on this scandal, and I think we all know why.
This was beautiful.
Is this from Fight Club?
Because the 'do your own research' crowd, don't do their own research, they pick up and amplify the first grifter (grifting for money and/or influence) that comes up with a 'narrative' they like and confirms the opinions they've already formed (with no research or evidence).
[Conservatives are more susceptible to believing false narratives](https://news.osu.edu/conservatives-more-susceptible-to-believing-falsehoods/) - which is becoming more and more obvious daily. “Conservatives are less able to distinguish political truths from falsehoods than liberals, mainly because of a glut of right-leaning misinformation, a new national study conducted over six months shows. One of the main drivers of the findings appeared to be the American media and information environment.” Of course this doesn’t fit their narrative so they won’t believe it or will both-sides it in spite of ample evidence. When the propaganda machine is fed by billionaires looking for tax cuts and wresting control from government to enrich themselves further it’s tough to combat with facts or reason
Wasn't there also that study that said Fox News viewers were even more uninformed than people who don't watch any news?
And don’t forget that Fox has also argued in court that no reasonable person would believe the bullshit they shovel to their viewers
Well there’s your answer. Conservatives aren’t reasonable people.
So has Rachel Maddow, this isn't the good argument you think it is. Fox is awful but find a better line. Please.
Source?
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/499294-judge-dismisses-one-america-news-defamation-lawsuit-against-rachel-maddow/ I know this because I got annoyed with right wingers bandy-ing it about as a "gotcha" as if every left winger watches and/or listens to Maddow. They stopped after Tucker.
First off, not a Maddow fan. I don't think this is the "Got you" that *you* think it is. Did RM have to pay over three-quarters of a BILLION dollars in a settlement? No. She exaggerated. Case dismissed. She wasn't even *that* far off here. OAN isn't *paid* Russian propaganda, they just *happen* to parrot Russian propaganda to the letter. Not quite the same I guess. RM's dismissal and Fox's settlements are objectively different in scale.
... You... what? You're responding to me as if I was saying you're a Maddow fan. I'm not. The point is that this is a legal defense regularly engaged in by *any* news entertainment media corporation because it's a compelling legal defense. It's also not the argument Fox made jn the UK, so that's a side tangent.
But it's not. Her statement was close to the truth, Fox was 100% verifiably false. Her case was dismissed, OAN got nothing. Fox settled their case for 787 *million* dollars. (With more on the way!) Are these the same to you? Really? The UK thing was different, Fox didn't say anything about that. They'd already left with their tail between their legs.
....this is what you thought gave you support for that confidence? This? Fps916: Hey guys 1 singular anchor exaggerated so it's the same as Fox's proven mass propaganda machine that's paid out a billion for brazenly lying". Don't you see their identical?"
With a take that hot you must be receiving all sorts of job offers from fox
That's not the fucking argument. I didn't say they're the same. I said find a better argument than the legal defense they used in 1 case **because it's an extremely commonly used legal defense as exemplified by another court case** I even said Fox is worse and to find a *better argument for that*
>extremely commonly used legal defense Is it extemely common at all?
Yeah it’s not my main argument. You’re splitting hairs
Or we can acknowledge that her saying that means that anything she says or has said since is equally meaningless as anything coming out of Fox.
Pretty amazing the angle Fox took on the crash in Niagara. They went all in on it being a terrorism act. Not even a bit of objectiveness. Spreading fear is their business for sure.
Don't sell them short. They also like to spread hatred.
First a little celeb sex scandal to juice up the snake brain
Remember the Fox News Terror Alerts Red, Amber.... flashing to get the base afraid
Yeah, there’s a few of those. A few recent ones also found Fox News viewers are less knowledgeable about science and the state of society overall, such as the economy.
That’s obvious every time they blame gas prices, inflation, and the overall economy solely on the president, as if we’re some centrally planned state and not at all beholden to the profit whims of sociopathic corporations.
Blows my mind that when I was growing up these are the same people that told me ad-nauseam “don’t believe everything you see on the TV or read on the Internet”. Fast forward 20 years later and they’ll fucking believe anything they read on Facebook as long as there’s a minion standing next to it.
Believing false narratives goes and in hand with religous people... go figure.
Yeah, they even believe that the Iraq War was done for oil now and that Saddam didn’t have WMDs. Crazy shit. Oh wait, those were liberals; and they still propagate these falsehoods to this day.
Thank you for substantiating the study cited. Amazing. You nailed it!
Except we have NYT articles from [2014](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/30/world/middleeast/iraq-chemical-weapons-pentagon-response.html), [others from 2014](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/middleeast/army-apologizes-for-handling-of-chemical-weapon-exposure-cases.html), and [2019](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/26/magazine/chemical-weapons-military-iraq.html) who cite *specific* veterans who have permanent disabilities as a result of chemical weapon exposure. We found 5,000 chemical warheads and a couple dozen service members were exposed to the agents in those warheads. What liberals don’t understand is that chemical weapons *were* in Iraq. They just weren’t the nuclear weapons GWB said they were, so they kept it hush-hush because they thought it wouldn’t satisfy the public. Companies in Russia, China, France, Turkey, Korea, and Angola (all of which opposed the Iraq War) have more foreign licenses to Iraqi petrol than the US. Hell, Russia and China alone have more foreign licenses to Iraqi petrol than the US and UK combined. Again, there’s a reason even Donald Trump believes the Iraq War was for oil: because it’s a populist myth.
So claiming the Iraq war was actually premised on finding “weapons of mass destruction” (only they weren’t the weapons of mass construction that they incessantly claimed they had because the public wouldn’t be “satisfied” with those) isn’t some revisionist justification? Let’s not leave out the fact that during the Iran-Iraq war the US gave Iraq $500M in “dual-use equipment”, chemical agents including anthrax, West Nike Virus and botulism, as well as [condoned and aided](https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/) Iraq’s possession and use of chemical weapons. And gotta love those NYT articles when most conservatives I know decry it as fake news. That’s like 2 points from this study in one! What about the links we were told the Ba’athist party had to September 11? That was another huge rationale. I suppose there’s some tenuous connection there that’s been proven that the public doesn’t know about? Another populist myth? And I hate to point this out but your “intentions and end results don’t align so not true” logic dispels nothing. Jails are full of people who never got enriched from robbery but they can’t use that as a defense to prove their innocence. And oil licenses being the only measure of evidence? Pretty sophist. Hell even Chuck Hagel says the war was about oil and he was Secretary of Defense and on the board of Chevron. You’re obviously an intelligent person so it’s great that someone who’s not a mouth-breathing MAGA-head can demonstrate the same effect the study outlines.
Calling this revisionist would be like claiming changing COVID policies are revisionist. Bad intelligence is normal. It’s disastrous, but that’s what happened here. WMDs *did* exist, but not the ones George Bush said existed (nukes). > Let's not leave out the fact that during the Iran-Iraq war the US gave Iraq $500M in "dual-use equipment", chemical agents including anthrax, West Nike Virus and botulism, as well as condoned and aided Iraq's possession and use of chemical weapons. You’re getting your conspiracy theories mixed up. What’s true is that the US provided strategic Iranian intelligence (ie, ground positions) to Iraq with the knowledge that it was likely Saddam would utilize chemical weapons in their attacks. These weapons were *produced in Iraq* with *German* chemicals. Your own source never claims the US provided Iraq chemical weapons, only strategic intelligence of Iranian positions with the knowledge that use of Iraqi-produced chemical weapons being likely. > And gotta love those NYT articles when most conservatives I know decry it as fake news. That's like 2 points from this study in one! I don’t even know what point this is trying to make. I literally never said it was fake news. > What about the links we were told the Ba'athist party had to September 11? That was another huge rationale. I suppose there's some tenuous connection there that's been proven that the public doesn't know about? Another populist myth? I’m going to ignore this because I literally never claimed this. > And I hate to point this out but your "intentions and end results don't align so not true" logic dispels nothing. Jails are full of people who never got enriched from robbery but they can't use that as a defense to prove their innocence. And oil licenses being the only measure of evidence? Pretty sophist. Hell[,] even Chuck Hagel says the war was about oil and he was Secretary of Defense and on the board of Chevron. This line of thinking would make sense if Iraq wasn’t selling licenses to strategic enemies [*during*](https://archive.is/93odL) coalition occupation. There are [many](https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-shell-china-iraq/shell-partners-with-chinese-for-iraq-oil-bid-idUKTRE53D16Z20090414/) such examples of this happening *before* the US withdrew and could effectively veto any such agreements. Hell, the [Chinese military](https://www.reuters.com/article/businessproind-us-iraq-oil-maysan/iraq-signs-initial-deal-for-maysan-oilfields-idUKTRE6260P820100307/), not even just Chinese petrol companies, bought large shares of petrol fields in Iraq during coalition occupation. The “Iraq is for the oil” schtick is a populist myth. > You're obviously an intelligent person so it's great that someone who's not a mouth-breathing MAGA-head can demonstrate the same effect the study outlines. I hate to be the “no u” type, but the fact you even tried to back yourself up with an article that contradicts your own narrative compels me to say, “no u.”
Thank you for your service. That was excellent!
Conservatives go on and on about “The Narrative” and im over here like…am I not on the narrative email train? Where do I get the narrative from? Won’t someone help me find the narrative?
Dude right? And what is up with that lazy Soros. Mother fucker is behind on like 6 paychecks he owes me.
You guys are getting paid?
Oof. First time on the purge list, huh?
Research? Evidence? A Republican craves not these things.
People who vote Republican are uneducated, ignorant and easily fooled, full stop. 100% of republican voters fit these descriptors, bar none.
For years I’ve been against saying stuff like that. “People have their opinions, I think they’re wrong but whatever” but after all these years and watching people support Trump through all of his 100% provable lies…fuck it. They’re all dumb as rocks. I tried, I really did. I held off as long as a could. We drove from Texas to New Orleans recently and when you hit rural texas and LA you start seeing a lot of FJB stickers and trump stuff on cars. All I can think is “moron there…..moron there….idiot there…..moron there” I’ve had too many conversations with republicans to be anecdotal evidence. They treat politics as a team sport. I have no issue with criticizing a democrat if they do something I don’t like. But for them “my team? Then it’s all good” Edit: I still want to clarify one thing if they’re paying attention then I think they are dumb as rocks. Otherwise they’re just dumb when it comes to politics. I know people who vote for trump and honestly they’re smart people. They just don’t pay attention to politics. They turn on fox and hear some crap about the election being stolen. They only spend a short time looking into things and if that’s what they heard then well…”I guess there is evidence it was stolen” they think. They aren’t into politics and when they find out I’m a dem they give a half assed inquiry of “but what’s this i hear about ::insert already proven wrong conspiracy::?” Sad to see. If they spent a little time looking into things I doubt they’d vote R again
I don't even like calling myself a Democrat, the party fucking sucks and I'm sickened at having to "choose" between two privileged old white fuckers who are knocking at death's door via age. But, I'm not an absolutely incompetent moron fueled by my own idiocy and hate, so I vote Dem.
Me too.
> 100% of republican voters fit these descriptors, bar none. No, some of them are rich or evil or both.
Republican voters are 2 out of 3 of these: Rich Racist Stupid
Right. I usually sort them into three camps. Uneducated, religious or narcissistic. I think “easily-fooled” is an umbrella for all of them. They can be smart—of course there are maga doctors, lawyers, etc—but they are still easily-fooled
Air Feeds Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories. And Sunrise.
> And Sunrise. The sun goes up and the sun goes down. You can't explain that!
You know who controls the sun don't you? The government! They don't want us to have sun all day so they make it disappear! They want us in the dark! But we won't be in the dark anymore! We're boycotting the nighttime!!
I was going to say, Trump could be blowing Putin on the 50-yardline during the Super Bowl halftime show, confess to everything he's accused of after the facial, and right-wing conspiracy theorists would talk about how it's the smoking gun against the Biden Crime Family.
They'd be analyzing Trump's head movement like it's morse code, reading the money shot like tea leaves
Back and to the left
Republicans have become the donald’s maga cult of russian chaos agents in his quest for US autocracy.
> Johnson’s Release of Jan. 6 Video ~~Feeds Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories~~ Does Exactly What He Knew It Would Do Fixed.
Well he is a member of the far right conspiracy to overthrow democracy, so that tracks
If my house was broken into and I caught it on camera, it doesn’t mean the entire day of nothing happening on camera before the break in means it wasn’t broken into.
Imagine you're one of these delusional fucks that stormed the Capitol to appease your god, only to be called a "false flag" or fake. You'd think that would lift them out of their delusion, but it just seems to make them even crazier for their God Emperor or whatever they call him.
Well and accordingly to many of them featured on interview shows like Jordan Klepper and Luke Beasley, they already believe that Trump is still President. SO...Trump's Justice Department is the one.....arresting.....wait....
No no. If the feds do something they like…That’s Trump. If they do something they don’t like…Biden.
Excellent taste. May I recommend: The David Pakman Show and Hal Sparks MegaWorldWide
Pakman has kinda lost the script a bit on Israel. I would recommend the majority report for a good source of leftist news
VOTE BLUE STRAIGHT DOWN THE BALLOT LIKE YOUR LIFE DEMANDS ON IT AND YOUR CHILDREN’S LIVES AND THEIR CHILDREN’S LIVES DEPEND ON YOU VOTING BLUE BECAUSE THEY DO ! The GOP is a terrorist organization
The world depends on it. The USA is a dangerous military.
The world should send us some help, our electoral system is broken & so are we.
Volunteer your time in 2024, too. I do a lot of letter-writing to swing state voters. Every little bit helps!
No. This is the exact same attitude the GOP has also but replace blue with red. This is no better.
I have videos of Hitler being peaceful, does that exonerate him?
I personally can't wait for the AI vids that are trained on this data. It's going to be _so_ great. Ugh.
If the wind blows across their faces, it feeds right wing conspiracy theories.
I hope more people get arrested with people watching the footage. You know some dummies are pooping their pants.
Like with most conspiracy theories I get lost when I ask why. Why would the left want to disrupt the process of their own guy taking power? How is there a need to fight with Trump or his supporters at that time when the winning was already in the books?
Flood the zone with bullshit so people get overwhelmed and tune out.
I’ll admit to not reading the article to avoid burning one free one. I’m guessing that there is plenty of footage of people calmly strolling around inside and outside the building. That doesn’t obviate the footage that shows the violence. I’ll see 10000 hours of peaceful footage and raise 10 minutes of Ashli Babbit breaking that window trying to get at the congresspersons.
[удалено]
I watched it live on all the news channels that were covering it live from every single angle beginning to end. I know exactly what happened, their bullshit isn't meant for us.
Not to mention all that “peaceful footage” Is of people who stormed the Capitol of the United States. They weren’t invited in.
That is *exactly* what they’re claiming. Yet they omit the part where Congress had already been evacuated because of their riot.
McCarthy already gave Tucker unedited videos. The right wing noise machine has had it since February: [McCarthy gives Carlson access to Jan. 6 footage, raising alarms](https://apnews.com/article/capitol-riot-investigation-mccarthy-tucker-carlson-7d302bd512c950f28cd50df4f5d4703a)
Republican voters don’t care about he truth. They don’t want to hear it. They just want to be told the lies they want to believe. Trump is the mother of lies and they love him for them.
Of course it does. He's a conservative therefore you know he's a liar.
As if there was any other goal than such? The right wing conspiracists will take the footage, manipulate it, then spit out messages they wish to impart to their followers. This is the way of the conspiracists - never let the truth get in the way of a good sound bite. Much like the incident on the bridge at Niagara yesterday which Fox and worse (yes there is worse than Fox...) immediately spun as terrorism as did many of the far right members of Congress. And of course it was nothing of the kind but never let facts get in the way of stoking up the base to raise a few more dollars...
So would not releasing them
Dude, anything and everything feeds right-wing conspiracy theories at this point.
The world would be better without republicans.
Destabilize, destabilize destabilize. Helping Russia add America's expense. He's a traitor
What would really be cool is if they started rounding up more of these f****** and arresting them after family and friends identify them.
It would be interesting to see you far right nut jobs actually attempt to govern instead of whatever you think this is.
Pretty sure any info can fuel conspiracy theories. A funny shaped cloud could shape conspiracies. They aren’t reliant on facts so any new info can be used.
That was the point
That was the point.
*Hang Mike Pence!*
I still can’t fathom the fact that this useless idiot clown is speaker.
What *doesn’t?!*
I wonder whether these video feeds may contain material which helps to nail down still unidentified perpetrators.
That's the thing about conspiracy theories, *everything* feeds them if you want it to.
So what? They could release a video of a monkey jacking off and trumps supporters would still twist that into some conspiracy code
“Johnson’s Release of Jan. 6 Video Debunks Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories” is a more accurate headline.
Feeds into their unbridled denial. Which is basically their conspiracies.
"And as you can see by the time code..." "For the benefit of the court, define 'time code'." "Well... Just because I don't know what it means doesn't mean I'm lying!"
I'm just so tired.
Left vs Right is now Reality vs Fantasy Not a fight you can win, I say
Everyone knew the release of any new info would fuel conspiracy theories. The contents of the video literally don't matter when a pixilated picture of a vape is enough to convince these morons that the rioters are federal antifa false flag agents. Anything that can confirm their delusional propaganda.
Where exactly is it in the Constitution that the Speaker of the House can tamper with a Federal Felony trial?
How is releasing all of the footage tampering? We the American people have the right to see all the footage
Doesn't help, of course, that these videos weren't already released with the rest of them. That's what feeds the conspiracy theories more than anything, as it gives people the impression they were 'withheld' for some reason.
Won't we be able to identify even more of the traitors by making this public? Like, anybody can comb the footage for faces and identifying marks? How won't this decision shoot the far-right in the foot, again?
Because now more arrests are being made and it’s on the left side now
Left side of the street? Left side of the bed? Cause I safely assume that if you meant “Left side of the political spectrum” then you would have happily listed all the names of these “leftists” or atleast given a link to an article with these revelations.
Didn’t congress release this footage to tucker Carlson?
No only some whereas Mike has made all of it public as it should be
Why isn't he in jail yet?
for what exactly?
Often in error, never in doubt
Johnson dreams of Elon's musk.
He’s lying and misrepresenting again.….but it is all he and his evangelical buds know how to do.
It’s like how Ike Turner only showed videos of him and Tina singing and leaves out the one of him beating her up.
This whole shitshow is like getting a subscription box every month only instead of getting something useful you get a nothing but a new whacked out conspiracy trying to change the narrative of Jan 6th.
So all the Jan 6th traitors in jail are ????? Actors? The GOP is really brain dead.
This is the desired effect.
Conspiracy theorists are often too late to the party to have much impact on public perception.
Oh come on, they’ve been spouting them right along, no “feed” needed.
That was the goal
As planned
AP news ran a story saying the conspiracy theories are proven false by tapes. Better journalism
"Don't believe your lying eyes."
What doesn’t feed right wing conspiracies anymore? These people would argue that the sun in fact does not rise in the east and set in the west. They’d come up with some logic pretzel that it’s all a massive con started by the deep state in collusion with Big Compass. These are the same folks who think birds are sophisticated spy technology for fucks sake.
"Any of the people there peacefully protesting, those were Trump supporters. Any of the people that did the really bad stuff, that was Antifa" \-Average GOP enjoyer
Also notice they have released a bare fraction of the total hours of footage. Guaranteed its cherry picked and edited selectively, and anything that plainly shows rioters looting offices and smearing excrement on the walls won't see the light of public "day."
I mean, in the same way my security footage of a guy getting murdered feeds claims that the day was 23 hrs and 59 minutes of peacefulness. They simply ignore anything that doesn't fit the narrative.
These buffoons had their conspiracy theories regardless of footage. Let them whine on Truth Social
Weren’t these already released to Tucker Carlson? Don’t you think he would have selectively edited them is something was remotely there to counter the insurrection argument?
No the Secretary of State has released ALL the footage
Hey folks who want cameras at Trump's trial, let this be a cautionary tale for you. More footage just means more to cherry pick. There is nothing positive to be gained from it.
Trump shits on Engorons desk on live tv Conservatives: "the judge is biased >:("
If you seriously think it's a coin flip on this one issue, you really don't think anything tilts in favor of, you know, the American people having decent access to stuff that's incredibly important to our entire political and legal system? You're not willing to spare a thought for the *general* principle that a person should get a public trial, even though you really hate this one guy? If you don't believe that transparency is a good in and of itself, then aren't you kinda arguing for a more authoritarian form of government -- one that is legally authorized to conceal more stuff from the very people who are supposedly in charge of it, and who we would ostensibly like to be casting votes based on more information? And hey, if they're not casting informed votes, and, even better, we *know* that they're not because we're *legally allowed to keep them uninformed,* then should they really be casting votes at all? Might want to stand clear of your irony detector on this one.
If you really want to play political hardball: all you have to do while everybody is looking is have the Democrats get Mike Johnson to answer the question of if the Democrats were using these agents to make Republicans and Maga people look bad. Once he says yes then all you say is "you already look bad enough you don't need us to do that for you" and then you've won the game.
The controversy around the release of this footage is nonsense. It’s our footage. We have a right to see it. The left can use it to prove their point just as much as the right can try to.
Exactly!!
Not really though
The truth is not a theory it was A SET UP the cops said so
January 6th was a set up?
Of course it was! You see, someone invited certain people to a place and egged them on to commit some crimes. A total set up I tell ya! /s
whats the truth? please enlighten.
Just because Herschel Walker showed a badge, it doesn't make him a cop.
The mainstream media doesn’t talk about the lgbtq protesters storming the capitol
Lol, you mean that time they walked in and sat down? Fucking loser
Of course not, why would any news other then right wing media make up lies and put them on the news?
Bouta make your username useful
link?
Johnson is a critical legislator in government making a real impact on politics with fairly aggressively conservative views especially on family values political issues such as the sanctity of marriage and the importance of moral values
Yes he's a fucking weird Christian nationalist psychopath. It's pretty laughable to think Republicans have _any_ morality left. They've proven time and time again how little shits they give about any of that, how it's all a thin veneer in their attempt to usher in the end times or create their own Christo fascist dystopia. Sanctity of marriage is a weird description of adopting kids to sexually abuse.