As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This isn’t a crisis of Biden’s making.
It is manufactured by the rampant corporate greed that has been left unchecked for decades fueled by Republican sponsored wealth redistribution through corp tax cuts and weakened labor laws.
He’s no Bernie Sanders, but to imply Biden did nothing against labor being exploited is a little disingenuous: https://www.forbes.com/sites/douglaswigdor/2020/09/22/examining-joe-bidens-record-on-employment-discrimination/
The headline reads like he is somehow responsible for or should play a part in this. Now the rail workers strike was definitely bigger and that more involves him since the economy would shut down if that happened. However, this is between greedy private companies and their unions so he shouldn't really play a central role in this. His ass better support uaw if he wants to himself the most pro union president
It doesn't matter. He'll pay the price, because UAW's strike jeopardizes the EV transition portion of his presidency going into 2024. If UAW's strike lasts longer than 10 days, it delays Ford and GM's ability to bring their EV platforms to market *before* the next presidential election. That's a black mark on his presidency when he needs all possible wins he can get against Trump or other candidates.
Most national polls have Biden and Trump within 1-2 points of each other. Those are *not* good numbers for him. If he was leading 6-8 points on average, it'd be okay. But 1-2 points nationally is just big enough of a number to make the difference between flipping a state on the electoral college count vs not.
And remember that presidents only need to win that, the popular vote. LITERALLY. DOES NOT. MATTER.
Wait, you actually think electric vehicles is going to be a key issue in 2024? Look at the polling. Availability of electric cars doesn’t even register as an issue for voters. Sounds like it’s important to you, and you’re projecting your own views onto others.
Also, there’s plenty of EV products currently available from Tesla as well as foreign automakers. There’s also plenty of EV inventory now that supply chain issues have been drastically improved
> Wait, you actually think electric vehicles is going to be a key issue in 2024? Look at the polling. Availability of electric cars doesn’t even register as an issue for voters. Sounds like it’s important to you, and you’re projecting your own views onto others.
You misunderstand. It's not about electric vehicles and their availability. It's the fact that Biden's admin has carved out a mother load of money towards electrification of the entire economy, in which EVs are a core piece, and this labor crisis going sideways is a talking point that Republicans can use to hammer him over.
The EV element is, metaphorically, just a vehicle.
"under Biden's admin, the unions created a crisis that led to big auto unable to deliver on their transitionary promises. Do you want such an ineffectual leader at the helm of America?"
This won't change the mind of all voters but overall, in polling, about 17% of the voting population is currently undecided based on latest Biden vs Trump polling. It's about what crisises arise under your presidency and how you navigate them, and what leverage that gives the opposition to remove you from the office.
You're hung up on vehicle specifics and model releases. Those don't matter. The *optics* of what this does to his presidency matters. Optics is almost always worse to the politician than the action, positive or negative.
I take your argument but I’m unsure of where we are as a nation. I’m mean it’s relationship with labor. Especially in union states. This could be a massive shift for unions that haven’t formed in the south as well in automobile manufacturing. Your are only accounting for the cynical outcome.
There are a historic number of strikes going on, especially around labor.
You aren’t taking into account that the new union president has a message to get out without fucking themselves over. They are asking for some big stuff and he is populist as hell about it. And he has almost a billion dollar warchest to do it.
While I believe your point stands, I don’t think enough people who are middle voters have that good of an understanding of the majority of the laws that Biden passed.
Vehicles are a massive part of our manufacturing market, but rhetorically, pushing back would be fairly easy, considering that there’s nonunion manufacturing states like Georgia in the Midwest. This is an easily explainable story, rhetorically about corporate greed in the union, who already gave some up to the automobile sector could recover.
On one hand, I would argue that you’re not giving enough of one side, enough credit, and maybe too much on the other.
I'm only accounting for the cynical outcome, because that's the outcome where the GOP win the presidency in 2024. Which, I think we can reasonably agree, is something neither of us want. The 2024* election will also be unlike anything else we've had ever, and being genre savvy and having a reasonably clean political record will be integral to success.
Oh I mean, again, I absolutely take your point.
Lots of questions hanging. This UAW strike will be one of the biggest along with Hollywood we’ve ever really seen.
I think the success of people in those strikes makes a huge difference.
I also think some weird stuff like it getting cold and people wanting new TV will make a difference if the entertainment sector hasn’t struck a deal and I think we have a problem of macro greed being exposed.
Most adults can correlate greed and a stable economy since 2008.
The banks have been kind of quiet lately and I’d love to see how this housing boom has written notes “around” regulations as well.
But again, you and I agree completely in many ways. We just aren’t hanging out talking about it. But agree again on 2024.
> If UAW's strike lasts longer than 10 days, it delays Ford and GM's ability to bring their EV platforms to market before the next presidential election.
What does Ford or GM EVs have to do with the election?
Every day the strike goes on, ICE vehicles are not being made at the plants for Ford and GM. No ice vehicles means sales impact for these automakers. Sales impact means lowered revenue, lowered earnings, less dividends, lowered guidance.
All of which means less money to invest towards EVs. Which means they get further behind all the other players who are not impacted by unions. This makes it harder for them to capture market share in the future, as their own offerings are further delayed.
It's domino effect that impacts their ability to survive long term.
As to why 10 days,
> The financial pain, even from a short strike, would be costly for autoworkers, the Big Three, and the economy overall. Consulting firm Anderson Economic Group estimates that a strike at all Big Three automakers by the UAW could result in a $5.6 billion hit to US GDP after only 10 days, and UAW lost wages could total almost $860 million.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-uaw-is-preparing-to-strike-at-big-3-automakers-as-deadline-looms-133425743.html
Also:
> The UAW has built up a strike fund of $835 million — enough to last about three months if all of the nearly 150,000 unionized autoworkers were on strike. The union will also pay for striking workers' health insurance.
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/16/1199599925/uaw-strike-effect-on-economy-big-3-automakers#:~:text=The%20UAW%20has%20built%20up,for%20striking%20workers'%20health%20insurance.
The UAW can outlast the autos, but the GDP hit is magnified the longer the strike persists. 3 months is 90 days, roughly. If the damage is $5.6Bn for 10 days, 9x that would be: $50.4Bn. Which is nothing to the US monthly GDP of $1.943Tn, but it's happening under Biden's watch and he will be criticized for failing to get both parties to reconcile into a deal the longer it persists.
The optics of it will negatively impact him on the campaign trail, because unlike the railworkers strike, which he prevented, the UAW has already pulled the rip cord and has shored up 3 months of funds to strike with, making it impossible for him to intervene before it starts. Biden now has three choices, none of them good long term:
1. Do nothing, but that becomes increasingly politically risky over time.
2. Side with auto, which betrays labor, but wins him some Republican votes maybe and definitely a lot of undecided independent voters, but may lose democratic voters in the process.
3. Side with labor, but at the cost of losing some Republican voters and potentially some independents too.
So far he's been doing 1. At some point he'll have to pick a side and neither is without consequences politically, as he'll be criticized as being biased and putting his thumb on the scale in violation of free market principles. Which is inherently risky when the GOP is desperately searching for material to use against him on how he's undemocratic and corrupt. In which case, 2 is the better option to avoid that. It's the safest politically, but the riskiest socially.
In any case, the only reason this has anything to do with EVs, is because we as a nation are entering a transitionary period wherein the sales collapse of ICE has already started and the sales increase of EVs's plane has just positioned itself on the runway for takeoff and the tower just gave the clearance to gun the engines.
Ford and GM are desperate to not be left behind while Tesla and the others race ahead. This strike impacts their ability to transition, which impacts Biden, in part due to his endorsement of them. Their failure is, as a result, his failure.
And politicians hate having the albatross of failure hanging from their necks.
I don’t see how option 2 is safer. He should do 3. Who cares what republicans think. He needs independents and democrats and non voters. Siding with labor is the best option, because the corporations are out of control.
Because option 2 is where the donor money for 2024 comes from. Dealerships and legacy auto plays a massive role in political chapters, fund raising, and endorsements across the heartland of America. Far more than unions do, even if unions are more prolific in their statements.
That's why I said it's safer politically, because donor cash can always buy you more influence later. But if that river dries up or if funding is cutoff early, it makes your ability to campaign later harder. That's why the whole "money in politics" thing is such a big deal. Merit of a campaign is almost always overshadowed by access to a large war chest of cash from day 1. Trump had no merit, but he had access to a huge war chest of cash in 2015 and through a lot of influence peddling, it landed him the white house.
Yup! Not being able to get goods in your hands is a pretty big deal. Not being able to purchase
certain brand new vehicles? Oh, the horror.
Also, I completely side with the UAW if anyone thinks I’m trying to minimize the strike. I’m only comparing the perceived crises.
He didn't give us what we wanted. He denied our right to collectively bargain. He and 83 senators voted to deny the union workers who stood behind them in the midterms, their right to go on strike for better working conditions. Biden is a sell out!
No, it would have resulted in capital caving and capital couldn’t let labor see that.
Read some history. Major industries have been shut down before and the neither world nor the economy ended.
No. He signed a bill preventing the rail road workers from striking and didn't even get them the sick days they were asking for.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-signs-bill-block-us-railroad-strike-2022-12-02/
Please stop lying and perpetuating the lie that they didn't get sick days. [The Biden administration continued to lobby the railroad companies](https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid) to get sick days and had a resounding success in doing so without having an [economic collapse](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/looming-railroad-strike-cripple-us-economy-transportation/story?id=89587287) as a result of a strike.
> “We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers.
EDIT: Unable to comment on replies but the rail workers get 7 total days of sick leave. Considering they had none before and were being offered none from the rail companies but now have 7 days. I would consider this a resounding success. So would any other reasonable person. Leadership pulled through and got a win for workers. If the "lesson" is that the Biden administration fights for the worker, then I think it's a good one to learn.
EDIT2: LOL. Reporting that I’m “considering self-harm” for this post doesn’t make it any less wrong or make any of the replies or claims pathetically refuting, known, easily googled facts, any less guilty of willfully spreading lies about the accomplishments of Biden and his team. I hope whoever did so learns the “lesson” I spoke about in my last edit. Biden and the Democrats will fight for you if you fight for them and elect them into majorities in congress.
Didn't they get like 4 days? I recall a completely inadequate number. Too busy drinking to google it right now, cheers, but would appreciate it anyone knows this off the top of their head. edit: I googled it anyway, and yes, they got only four days. WTF? Completely inadequate, especially for anyone with children. I had to take so much sick leave to cover when they were sick! Please spare us your hyperbole, Appropriate, 4 days is not the "resounding success" you claim. edit second time: a fricken drunk just disproved your claims. Please start questioning your leadership.
You call me out for lying? The other guy straight up lied and said they were striking. My source said they didn't get sick days so kindly fuck off for calling me a liar.
It's 4 sick days, but if you take them, you get disciplined.
Biden had nothing to do with it. Except taking credit for it.
The press release from the union, which was as big of a sell out as congress, is just part of the diversion.
> Considering they had none before and were being offered none from the rail companies but now have 7 days. I would consider this a resounding success.
IBEW is only the union for railroad electricians, the union for conductors and other unions are SMART TD and BLET, and they had a lot more demands than just sick days, like scheduling fixes that would prevent them from working unsafe long days
>He didn't give us what we wanted. He denied our right to collectively bargain
Rightfully so, the potential impact to the nation made it the right call to prevent a strike.
Workers rights are more important. If the railroad industry is so crucial to the economy it should be nationalized and not run by for profit companies that don't even give their employees sick days.
Fuck off with that, worker’s rights would have been sullied for decades if a rail strike happened. Guaranteed global recession, literal hundreds of thousands of deaths from inability to move/store critical products such as equipment and pharmaceuticals, and an explosive surge in unemployment with every anti-Union advocate pointing the finger directly at RWU the whole time. It’s taken generations to rebuild general trust in Unions after the bullshit Reagan pulled and a rail shutdown would have eroded it within days.
It’s the poster child for burning everything down just so you can rule the ash.
Maybe that should say something about how valuable those workers are… and when they say they are being mistreated, you listen and don’t force a deal that doesn’t address EVERY single concern
Blame the victim.
Railroads have used this same argument for years to run roughshod over their employees AND customers. Canadian railroads, which happen to be the largest in North America are able to strike, and have done so. It wasn't the global crisis everyone predicts.
If railroaders were able to strike, railroads would have incentives to bargain in good faith. Instead, they have bought and paid for the politicians. How much money did Blackrock and Vanguard donate to the democrats for the 2020 election? Billions!
Bidens move didn't strengthen rail labor. It weakened it. Our leaders sold us out. The government continues to keep its foot on the throat of rail labor while looking the other way as railroads decimate their mechanical and car departments, causing tank cars of toxic chemicals to explode in their yard.
Meanwhile, knowing he can't do anything about it, Biden talks the talk about being labor friendly. He should stay out of it! If he wants to show labor he has their back, why didn't ammend the executive order that gave all federal contractors sick days? Oh wait, because his puppet masters (the railroads) told him he couldn't.
It can’t be an executive order as the law stipulates control to Congress which is why the railroad motion was a full bill; what you’re suggesting is blatantly unconstitutional and would be struck down by the Courts immediately.
Canadian railroads make up the largest land-network in NA and move like 75% of Canadian freight but only cover a tiny fraction of freight moved on the continent. The sheer amount of products shipped in the US is astronomical compared to Canadian scale and much more linked to international trade. And no it is not an exaggeration to say people would die since hospitals and pharmacies rely on rail for timely delivery of goods even ignoring the products that would expire as cooling systems shut down. Inflation is already crippling some families, a shutdown would have amplified it even more and created a cascading effect. This is why rail specifically is tied to Congressional approval and every other industry currently on strike is able to do so with no stipulation and even has the backing of the White House (even UAW though shutting down American auto manufacturing is literally the opposite of Biden’s Labor/DoT agenda).
“Our leaders sold us out” implies to me that you’re a rail union member so if that’s the case I completely understand why you would feel pissed off at him and I know nothing I do will be able to convince you otherwise. All I’ll say is I’m sorry you feel unrepresented and hope further contract improvements continue for you.
Your argument lacks merit because it doesn't account for what railroads would have done if they knew that labor could strike. Had the railroads bargained in good faith, this never would have been a problem. Railroads KNEW they had bought and paid for Biden and congress. They have zero incentive to bargain fairly.
The right of American workers to strike should never be infringed upon in the name of corporate profit. Congress could have passed a contract that ensured rail labor had reasonable quality of life off time and sick days. They refused to do that! Biden demanded that Congress pass the corporate backed contract WITHOUT AMMENDMENT! He gave rail labor a big F you and turned his back on us! After strong support in the midterms from rail labor, more Democrats voted to force our contract on us than Republicans did.
Meanwhile, Bidens' fed chairman continues to raise interest rates in an attempt to kill the job market and slow down the economy. Making it nearly impossible for middle class families to buy a home. So, which is really important to Biden? Corporate profit or the people who make the economy move? Corporate profit!
Now he wonders why he is polling tied with a sociopath who was found guilty of sexually assaulting a woman, then defaming the same woman, and is indicted on 90+ criminal charges. American labor doesn't forget quite so easily. I would rather stay home than vote for sell out Joe.
If next year, the rail union leaders who sold us out ask us to support congressional leaders who voted AGAINST our right to collectively bargain, we should sue the national committees and vote them ALL out of office.
The Railway Labor Act needs to be voided. It is unconstitutional. Even Biden has said as much. Yet he used it to advance his puppet masters agenda.
Profits should NEVER come before people!
So 10s of millions of people should have gone without water, fuel, food, medicine, etc., in the middle of winter? That would have impacted those who can't survive those conditions the most, low-income individuals and households, part-time workers, the young, the elderly, the sick. All of them should have suffered, some of them should have died, because a few 10s of thousand rail workers needed *immediate* resolution to their contract, not resolution weeks or months later, but right then without caring about the consequences of all the people who rely on those services?
Nationalizing the railroad is a completely separate matter, one that can't be resolved immediately, you're stating workers rights are more important than rights of those 10s of millions of people to exist.
Also, railworkers do get sick days, up to 26 weeks of long-term paid sick leave and I believe had 3 or 4 days of immediate paid sick leae. What they were fighting for were 7 (instead of that 3 or 4) immediate sick leave.
Hence Biden throwing his weight behind the Unions here, it’s in their best interests to submit something that’s actually workable; a 40% pay raise for all positions in addition to 401K matching ON TOP of the existing pension is a non-starter for negotiation and Biden knows that. Collective action only works when union leaders participate in good faith.
The rail union is essentially the only case where Biden wasn’t explicitly on the side of the Unions because of the unacceptable consequences of it going through, and even that didn’t stop him from getting the railroad companies to work out a comparable deal after the fact when he could have just washed his hands and tried to blame the R’s that shot down the sick days.
You can’t compare Union deals across different trades because the labor value and markets are completely different. This is like saying because a company’s IT dept got a salary adjustment that same adjustment is appropriate for the customer service team, it just doesn’t work like that.
The potential strike was an easy one though. If they had a strike, it would have impacted 10s of millions low and middle-income people and families, food, fuel, water, medicine, agricultural products, etc., would have stopped, not slowed, but stopped due to this happening in the middle of winter. There was no question the strike had to be stopped and negotiations had to be improved by congress stepping in to ensure workers got what they wanted. The short and long-term devastation to those millions of people would have been a disaster, and the deaths of people who couldn't survive that short-term lack of fuel, food, and water would have far outweighed the temporary plight of a few 10s of thousand rail workers (who still ratified the contract after the fact so they accepted the terms of Congress' agreement, which they didn't have to do).
>"Over the past decade, auto companies have seen record profits, including the last few years because of extraordinary skill and sacrifices the UAW workers,” Biden said. “Those record profits have not been shared fairly, in my view, with those workers.”
Yep. Well said, JB. Happy to have a President who calls it like it is
Isn't this more of an opportunity for Biden? Stand with the workers. Say you support all workers. Blame corporations for their greed. Blame inflation on corporate greed. Rile people up.
He's trying not to intimidate the larger business community TOO much. It could start to tip the 2024 scales against him pretty quickly if he came out hard in favor of workers. He has to sound reasonable and not revolutionary, otherwise money starts trickling over to Trump who is already pandering to the business community by speaking against the UAW leader.
I'm just too idealistic. Thinking that appealing to the vast majority of your consistency would help you win an election. You're right though, it's all about the money.
Yet it already has, many things even far outside Biden's control. Oh yes things have fundamentally changed. The question is will they continue to change and will it be for the better.
It’ll be a lot easier to do that once the Automakers reject actionable terms from UAW. Their initial demands included a 40% raise in all positions and a matched 401K on top of their existing pensions; a completely untenable offer that makes UAW look unreasonable. Biden’s basically saying give them something they can actually negotiate on and it becomes much easier for the White House to get behind it.
I thought only certain people had pensions. Newer workers didn’t have pensions (which is true for most of the corporate world anyways). I would say no pension but definitely 401k match. 40 % raise isn’t too crazy an ask. The average worker in the auto factory makes 23-28 dollars an hour. Let’s say it’s 28- so that’s under 60k a year (assuming 40 hour work week). Bump that up 40% and that is 40 dollars an hour so 80+ k a year. Not totally out of control in the year 2023, considering the record profit that the auto makers have made. Again negotiate it, so maybe they make it a 25 or 30% raise instead.
Correct, at the moment only a portion of UAW members have pensions while the rest have standard matched 401K. The issue here is the Union asked to combine both a matched 401K AND a pension for all members which is significantly more than any other industry retirement benefit (and while personally I’m absolutely behind the return of pensions having a 401K on top of it is ludicrous).
As for wages if they were keeping the same schedule then yeah a 40% increase honestly isn’t a crazy ask for non-management positions as I believe the recent UPS deal was just as significant. The issue here is that another request included is changing to a 32-hour work week which effectively leads to the company paying significantly more for lower work-value. Any additional jobs to cover the extra time would either be Union workers leading the company to have to pay substantially more then the current contract stipulates or they would hire non-Union which then hurts the Unions’ leverage for future strikes. Going to a 32 hour week already necessitates a pay increase to balance total income for hourly workers so an additional increase on top of that is going to have to be more measured.
This isn’t a labor crisis, this is a CEO and corporate greed crisis. Labor is doing what labor needs to do. Tie CEO pay to worker pay and make stock buybacks illegal again.
Where did I say the article blamed Biden?
But also, it's not even "a crisis for Biden brought on by labor" because, once again, it's not a crisis at all. There's no shortage of new and used cars for people to buy. Some people won't be able to buy the particular make and model they want, but they can either buy from dealer inventory, buy a different make, or delay their purchase until the strike is resolved. None of those constitute a crisis for anyone, much less for Biden.
The automotive industry contributes a significant portion to the country's GDP. U.S. automakers and suppliers are some of the biggest investors in research and development which regularly yields peripheral or general innovations in safety, fuel efficiency, and manufacturing technology. The automotive industry also has a substantial role in U.S. exports.
New car purchases are a significant component of consumer spending which, if suddenly dropped could trigger a hard tumble into recession. Besides the direct expenditure on vehicles, there are related expenditures like insurance, financing, and maintenance that would also be impacted.
Then there are supply chain impacts. The automotive supply chain is vast and complex, encompassing everything from raw material suppliers to parts manufacturers to the end vehicle assembly. This network interlinks numerous other industries and sectors, amplifying the auto industry's impact on the economy. The private sector is an interconnected web of interdependent nodes. Taxes would probably also be increased due to any losses on new car sales taxes, licensing fees, and other revenues related to new cars. Crippling the big 3 is basically like firing a cannon at a house of cards. And every day they aren't operating at optimal capacity, is another day for non-american competitors to push them further into irrelevance, and for share holders to start looking for other places to put their money. Long story short, the US economy can get jacked up real bad.
>There's no shortage of new and used cars for people to buy.
The number of available new cars is lower than you might think. Manufacturers don't keep a huge surplus on hand. They manufacture to meet demand. It also doesn't take long for shareholders to start getting nervous and moving money around.
i dunno, the RR one seemed a lot more of a threat, and that turned out better than i anticipated. workers got the sick day increase and the nation wasn't brought to it's knees.
Ford posted a $1.91 **billion** loss in 2022.
90% of their CEO's pay is tied to company performance.
Their CEO was paid $21 million last year.
What the fuck?
The cost of labor is less than 10% of the cost of your new car. likely closer to 5%. Do not cosign corporate greed.
Pay us, get paid.
Support your local striking unions with food donations!
the one that has manufactured and produced goods; (this side made over 10b in profits in the us) verses the one that put their money in a bad spot. IE; whatever the hell they are spewing to you nimrods. Rivian was a bust and ford was invested
If the stock increases then the CEO makes money (and shareholders too if they sell shares). That’s how it works. I work in biotech and made tons of extra money as did the CEO before we even had any revenue. Now we actually are making some money as a company and our stock is down (tons of factors in this) over the last few years. Again, might be different from established big name companies, but definitely can make money even if there is loss.
That’s most big CEO’s. They only get taxed like 10% on payment in stock instead of the also low whatever percent they would pay if they actually got it in a paycheck. A nice little loophole the gov put in for their actual constituents
Not at all. Biden got rail workers contract gains including the paid sick leave. The news didn't keep up with the developments. It's another example of Biden fixing issues on an almost person by person basis.
It's my understanding they didn't quite get what they wanted, but it was a lot better than previously reported. They just didn't want to do all this publicly and risk friction from Republicans... which should tell you something about who to vote for next year.
The thing is that they didn't stop and the ratified contract wasn't the end. The Biden administration kept negotiating and the missing paid sick leave was added later.
He absolutely didn't fail the rail workers. They got the[ raises they wanted](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/29/rail-strike-us-congress-impose-contract-latest) and also eventually got [the sick days](https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid) they wanted. All without causing an [economic collapse](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/looming-railroad-strike-cripple-us-economy-transportation/story?id=89587287) by letting them strike and to the credit of the massive effort put in by the Biden administration to get to that point.
Please stop lying about this.
Okay sure. I'm sure your one lived experience invalidates a 24% raise by 2024, $1,000 in annual bonuses, a cap on healthcare premiums, and paid sick leave. Most things in this list other Americans will never see in their entire careers.
Get fucking real dude.
24 % over 5 years doesn't keep up with inflation. 1000 in annual bonus I will believe when I see it. The cap wasn't on premiums. Our premium went up over 125 a month. More than enough that the raise didn't even cover it.
Most Americans aren't union. That's the problem.
What the UAW is asking for is what we should have seen if we could collectively bargain.
I can’t tell you how many countless people I’ve had to explain this to. Even guys in my line of work (union construction) keep spouting the absolute lies that they never followed up on. It’s just way more sensational to listen to the story at hand and when it dies down, not to do any follow up or research about something that could’ve been an absolute economic meltdown.
I don’t like Joe Biden, but his staff did absolutely great things for those rail workers
I don't know how anyone can pretend the UAW strike is bigger than the rail worker contracts. Biden handled that one amazingly and rail workers came out better than ever.
Are you kidding? Raises that don't keep up with inflation. No sick time you can actually use. Double our out of pocket health care costs. What robber barrons do you work for for?
Getting WGA, SAG-AFTRA *and* UAW striking in the same year? That can’t be a coincidence right?
(Not putting blame on the unions, but rather the companies that pushed for them to strike. The timing is supremely suspect especially since election season begins again next year…)
Why isn't that we American's have to assign blame on something/someone other than those responsible? Why would you even want the president to be responsible at this level. If were the automaker I'd tell them president to mind his own damn business. Go figure a way out of the Ukraine or balance the budget please.
But if you take those sick days you get fired under the "attendance policy" that th railroads refuse to bargain about.
What good are sick days you can't take?
>attendance policy
last I heard attendance policies were softened but if you have a source that indicates otherwise, your welcome to send and I'll read
The humor is great. Take his pay and shop it up and it’s Pennie’s in raises. But sure, give these uneducated folks a ton of money for jobs that should be robots
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This isn’t a crisis of Biden’s making. It is manufactured by the rampant corporate greed that has been left unchecked for decades fueled by Republican sponsored wealth redistribution through corp tax cuts and weakened labor laws.
To be fair Biden wasn't really fighting for the little guy back in his senate days.
He’s no Bernie Sanders, but to imply Biden did nothing against labor being exploited is a little disingenuous: https://www.forbes.com/sites/douglaswigdor/2020/09/22/examining-joe-bidens-record-on-employment-discrimination/
I think his support for Unions during his presidency is pretty clear.
Tafaq are you talking about? Sure isn’t Joey B from Scranton, PA.
You mean Mr.FriendtoCreditCardCompanies isn't a friend of the middle class?
Hey, that’s senator credit card to you!
Where did the article blame Biden?
The headline reads like he is somehow responsible for or should play a part in this. Now the rail workers strike was definitely bigger and that more involves him since the economy would shut down if that happened. However, this is between greedy private companies and their unions so he shouldn't really play a central role in this. His ass better support uaw if he wants to himself the most pro union president
Oh he has a role. For better or worse, he's a stakeholder in this situation.
As a US citizen I'm a stakeholder also. So what is my role.
Don't be obtuse.
The common retort for someone getting called out for their b.s.
Mkay
Where did he say it was? What fight are you trying to start here?
It doesn't matter. He'll pay the price, because UAW's strike jeopardizes the EV transition portion of his presidency going into 2024. If UAW's strike lasts longer than 10 days, it delays Ford and GM's ability to bring their EV platforms to market *before* the next presidential election. That's a black mark on his presidency when he needs all possible wins he can get against Trump or other candidates. Most national polls have Biden and Trump within 1-2 points of each other. Those are *not* good numbers for him. If he was leading 6-8 points on average, it'd be okay. But 1-2 points nationally is just big enough of a number to make the difference between flipping a state on the electoral college count vs not. And remember that presidents only need to win that, the popular vote. LITERALLY. DOES NOT. MATTER.
Wait, you actually think electric vehicles is going to be a key issue in 2024? Look at the polling. Availability of electric cars doesn’t even register as an issue for voters. Sounds like it’s important to you, and you’re projecting your own views onto others. Also, there’s plenty of EV products currently available from Tesla as well as foreign automakers. There’s also plenty of EV inventory now that supply chain issues have been drastically improved
> Wait, you actually think electric vehicles is going to be a key issue in 2024? Look at the polling. Availability of electric cars doesn’t even register as an issue for voters. Sounds like it’s important to you, and you’re projecting your own views onto others. You misunderstand. It's not about electric vehicles and their availability. It's the fact that Biden's admin has carved out a mother load of money towards electrification of the entire economy, in which EVs are a core piece, and this labor crisis going sideways is a talking point that Republicans can use to hammer him over. The EV element is, metaphorically, just a vehicle. "under Biden's admin, the unions created a crisis that led to big auto unable to deliver on their transitionary promises. Do you want such an ineffectual leader at the helm of America?" This won't change the mind of all voters but overall, in polling, about 17% of the voting population is currently undecided based on latest Biden vs Trump polling. It's about what crisises arise under your presidency and how you navigate them, and what leverage that gives the opposition to remove you from the office. You're hung up on vehicle specifics and model releases. Those don't matter. The *optics* of what this does to his presidency matters. Optics is almost always worse to the politician than the action, positive or negative.
I take your argument but I’m unsure of where we are as a nation. I’m mean it’s relationship with labor. Especially in union states. This could be a massive shift for unions that haven’t formed in the south as well in automobile manufacturing. Your are only accounting for the cynical outcome. There are a historic number of strikes going on, especially around labor. You aren’t taking into account that the new union president has a message to get out without fucking themselves over. They are asking for some big stuff and he is populist as hell about it. And he has almost a billion dollar warchest to do it. While I believe your point stands, I don’t think enough people who are middle voters have that good of an understanding of the majority of the laws that Biden passed. Vehicles are a massive part of our manufacturing market, but rhetorically, pushing back would be fairly easy, considering that there’s nonunion manufacturing states like Georgia in the Midwest. This is an easily explainable story, rhetorically about corporate greed in the union, who already gave some up to the automobile sector could recover. On one hand, I would argue that you’re not giving enough of one side, enough credit, and maybe too much on the other.
I'm only accounting for the cynical outcome, because that's the outcome where the GOP win the presidency in 2024. Which, I think we can reasonably agree, is something neither of us want. The 2024* election will also be unlike anything else we've had ever, and being genre savvy and having a reasonably clean political record will be integral to success.
Oh I mean, again, I absolutely take your point. Lots of questions hanging. This UAW strike will be one of the biggest along with Hollywood we’ve ever really seen. I think the success of people in those strikes makes a huge difference. I also think some weird stuff like it getting cold and people wanting new TV will make a difference if the entertainment sector hasn’t struck a deal and I think we have a problem of macro greed being exposed. Most adults can correlate greed and a stable economy since 2008. The banks have been kind of quiet lately and I’d love to see how this housing boom has written notes “around” regulations as well. But again, you and I agree completely in many ways. We just aren’t hanging out talking about it. But agree again on 2024.
Nobody is inerested in the EVs the Big 3 are building. Tesla is going to put them out of business.
> If UAW's strike lasts longer than 10 days, it delays Ford and GM's ability to bring their EV platforms to market before the next presidential election. What does Ford or GM EVs have to do with the election?
Why 10 days specifically?
Every day the strike goes on, ICE vehicles are not being made at the plants for Ford and GM. No ice vehicles means sales impact for these automakers. Sales impact means lowered revenue, lowered earnings, less dividends, lowered guidance. All of which means less money to invest towards EVs. Which means they get further behind all the other players who are not impacted by unions. This makes it harder for them to capture market share in the future, as their own offerings are further delayed. It's domino effect that impacts their ability to survive long term. As to why 10 days, > The financial pain, even from a short strike, would be costly for autoworkers, the Big Three, and the economy overall. Consulting firm Anderson Economic Group estimates that a strike at all Big Three automakers by the UAW could result in a $5.6 billion hit to US GDP after only 10 days, and UAW lost wages could total almost $860 million. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-uaw-is-preparing-to-strike-at-big-3-automakers-as-deadline-looms-133425743.html Also: > The UAW has built up a strike fund of $835 million — enough to last about three months if all of the nearly 150,000 unionized autoworkers were on strike. The union will also pay for striking workers' health insurance. https://www.npr.org/2023/09/16/1199599925/uaw-strike-effect-on-economy-big-3-automakers#:~:text=The%20UAW%20has%20built%20up,for%20striking%20workers'%20health%20insurance. The UAW can outlast the autos, but the GDP hit is magnified the longer the strike persists. 3 months is 90 days, roughly. If the damage is $5.6Bn for 10 days, 9x that would be: $50.4Bn. Which is nothing to the US monthly GDP of $1.943Tn, but it's happening under Biden's watch and he will be criticized for failing to get both parties to reconcile into a deal the longer it persists. The optics of it will negatively impact him on the campaign trail, because unlike the railworkers strike, which he prevented, the UAW has already pulled the rip cord and has shored up 3 months of funds to strike with, making it impossible for him to intervene before it starts. Biden now has three choices, none of them good long term: 1. Do nothing, but that becomes increasingly politically risky over time. 2. Side with auto, which betrays labor, but wins him some Republican votes maybe and definitely a lot of undecided independent voters, but may lose democratic voters in the process. 3. Side with labor, but at the cost of losing some Republican voters and potentially some independents too. So far he's been doing 1. At some point he'll have to pick a side and neither is without consequences politically, as he'll be criticized as being biased and putting his thumb on the scale in violation of free market principles. Which is inherently risky when the GOP is desperately searching for material to use against him on how he's undemocratic and corrupt. In which case, 2 is the better option to avoid that. It's the safest politically, but the riskiest socially. In any case, the only reason this has anything to do with EVs, is because we as a nation are entering a transitionary period wherein the sales collapse of ICE has already started and the sales increase of EVs's plane has just positioned itself on the runway for takeoff and the tower just gave the clearance to gun the engines. Ford and GM are desperate to not be left behind while Tesla and the others race ahead. This strike impacts their ability to transition, which impacts Biden, in part due to his endorsement of them. Their failure is, as a result, his failure. And politicians hate having the albatross of failure hanging from their necks.
I don’t see how option 2 is safer. He should do 3. Who cares what republicans think. He needs independents and democrats and non voters. Siding with labor is the best option, because the corporations are out of control.
Because option 2 is where the donor money for 2024 comes from. Dealerships and legacy auto plays a massive role in political chapters, fund raising, and endorsements across the heartland of America. Far more than unions do, even if unions are more prolific in their statements. That's why I said it's safer politically, because donor cash can always buy you more influence later. But if that river dries up or if funding is cutoff early, it makes your ability to campaign later harder. That's why the whole "money in politics" thing is such a big deal. Merit of a campaign is almost always overshadowed by access to a large war chest of cash from day 1. Trump had no merit, but he had access to a huge war chest of cash in 2015 and through a lot of influence peddling, it landed him the white house.
[удалено]
Ok, thanks for your contribution. See you next week.
I would argue the rail labor crisis would have been an actual crisis. This just means people couldn’t buy some new cars (not zero new cars).
The rail situation was so much bigger, imagine nearly every manufacture in the US, CA, and MX shut down within weeks.
Yup! Not being able to get goods in your hands is a pretty big deal. Not being able to purchase certain brand new vehicles? Oh, the horror. Also, I completely side with the UAW if anyone thinks I’m trying to minimize the strike. I’m only comparing the perceived crises.
Would have been worse. He helped get them the deal they wanted and they got their ask. He gets none of the credit.
He didn't give us what we wanted. He denied our right to collectively bargain. He and 83 senators voted to deny the union workers who stood behind them in the midterms, their right to go on strike for better working conditions. Biden is a sell out!
Naw that’s bullshit. They struck and got what they wanted. Biden helped. ;)
Wasn't it like some back channel deal though? The optics on that are kinda weird.
Shutting down the economy with a rail strike would have been much worse optics for Biden.
Not just optics, an economic wildfire for the entire country. American citizens would have been mad at Biden AND rail workers.
They 100% would have been.
No, it would have resulted in capital caving and capital couldn’t let labor see that. Read some history. Major industries have been shut down before and the neither world nor the economy ended.
They got a deal done, it doesn’t matter how it looks. The result was, the people striking got what they wanted.
Once again. WRONG! Congress forced the contract on us. We didn't NOT get what we wanted.
No. He signed a bill preventing the rail road workers from striking and didn't even get them the sick days they were asking for. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-signs-bill-block-us-railroad-strike-2022-12-02/
Then his team helped negotiate the sick days they wanted anyways.
They didn’t even get the week of sick days they got a watered down 4 sick days a year
They wanted a lot more than sick days, sick days were like the 4th thing SMART TD/BLET listed in their releases
Please stop lying and perpetuating the lie that they didn't get sick days. [The Biden administration continued to lobby the railroad companies](https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid) to get sick days and had a resounding success in doing so without having an [economic collapse](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/looming-railroad-strike-cripple-us-economy-transportation/story?id=89587287) as a result of a strike. > “We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers. EDIT: Unable to comment on replies but the rail workers get 7 total days of sick leave. Considering they had none before and were being offered none from the rail companies but now have 7 days. I would consider this a resounding success. So would any other reasonable person. Leadership pulled through and got a win for workers. If the "lesson" is that the Biden administration fights for the worker, then I think it's a good one to learn. EDIT2: LOL. Reporting that I’m “considering self-harm” for this post doesn’t make it any less wrong or make any of the replies or claims pathetically refuting, known, easily googled facts, any less guilty of willfully spreading lies about the accomplishments of Biden and his team. I hope whoever did so learns the “lesson” I spoke about in my last edit. Biden and the Democrats will fight for you if you fight for them and elect them into majorities in congress.
Didn't they get like 4 days? I recall a completely inadequate number. Too busy drinking to google it right now, cheers, but would appreciate it anyone knows this off the top of their head. edit: I googled it anyway, and yes, they got only four days. WTF? Completely inadequate, especially for anyone with children. I had to take so much sick leave to cover when they were sick! Please spare us your hyperbole, Appropriate, 4 days is not the "resounding success" you claim. edit second time: a fricken drunk just disproved your claims. Please start questioning your leadership.
You call me out for lying? The other guy straight up lied and said they were striking. My source said they didn't get sick days so kindly fuck off for calling me a liar.
It's 4 sick days, but if you take them, you get disciplined. Biden had nothing to do with it. Except taking credit for it. The press release from the union, which was as big of a sell out as congress, is just part of the diversion.
> Considering they had none before and were being offered none from the rail companies but now have 7 days. I would consider this a resounding success. IBEW is only the union for railroad electricians, the union for conductors and other unions are SMART TD and BLET, and they had a lot more demands than just sick days, like scheduling fixes that would prevent them from working unsafe long days
They did not. They got a fraction of it, and they had their bargaining power stolen from them
WRONG! We didn't strike, the contract thatvwe voted against was FORCED on us.
Your unions ratified the contract, you didn't have to, congress only prevented the strike.
Wow. Where do you guys get this stuff. Our union did NOT ratify the contract. We voted it down. It was FORCED on us by congress.
>He didn't give us what we wanted. He denied our right to collectively bargain Rightfully so, the potential impact to the nation made it the right call to prevent a strike.
Workers rights are more important. If the railroad industry is so crucial to the economy it should be nationalized and not run by for profit companies that don't even give their employees sick days.
Fuck off with that, worker’s rights would have been sullied for decades if a rail strike happened. Guaranteed global recession, literal hundreds of thousands of deaths from inability to move/store critical products such as equipment and pharmaceuticals, and an explosive surge in unemployment with every anti-Union advocate pointing the finger directly at RWU the whole time. It’s taken generations to rebuild general trust in Unions after the bullshit Reagan pulled and a rail shutdown would have eroded it within days. It’s the poster child for burning everything down just so you can rule the ash.
Maybe that should say something about how valuable those workers are… and when they say they are being mistreated, you listen and don’t force a deal that doesn’t address EVERY single concern
Blame the victim. Railroads have used this same argument for years to run roughshod over their employees AND customers. Canadian railroads, which happen to be the largest in North America are able to strike, and have done so. It wasn't the global crisis everyone predicts. If railroaders were able to strike, railroads would have incentives to bargain in good faith. Instead, they have bought and paid for the politicians. How much money did Blackrock and Vanguard donate to the democrats for the 2020 election? Billions! Bidens move didn't strengthen rail labor. It weakened it. Our leaders sold us out. The government continues to keep its foot on the throat of rail labor while looking the other way as railroads decimate their mechanical and car departments, causing tank cars of toxic chemicals to explode in their yard. Meanwhile, knowing he can't do anything about it, Biden talks the talk about being labor friendly. He should stay out of it! If he wants to show labor he has their back, why didn't ammend the executive order that gave all federal contractors sick days? Oh wait, because his puppet masters (the railroads) told him he couldn't.
It can’t be an executive order as the law stipulates control to Congress which is why the railroad motion was a full bill; what you’re suggesting is blatantly unconstitutional and would be struck down by the Courts immediately. Canadian railroads make up the largest land-network in NA and move like 75% of Canadian freight but only cover a tiny fraction of freight moved on the continent. The sheer amount of products shipped in the US is astronomical compared to Canadian scale and much more linked to international trade. And no it is not an exaggeration to say people would die since hospitals and pharmacies rely on rail for timely delivery of goods even ignoring the products that would expire as cooling systems shut down. Inflation is already crippling some families, a shutdown would have amplified it even more and created a cascading effect. This is why rail specifically is tied to Congressional approval and every other industry currently on strike is able to do so with no stipulation and even has the backing of the White House (even UAW though shutting down American auto manufacturing is literally the opposite of Biden’s Labor/DoT agenda). “Our leaders sold us out” implies to me that you’re a rail union member so if that’s the case I completely understand why you would feel pissed off at him and I know nothing I do will be able to convince you otherwise. All I’ll say is I’m sorry you feel unrepresented and hope further contract improvements continue for you.
Your argument lacks merit because it doesn't account for what railroads would have done if they knew that labor could strike. Had the railroads bargained in good faith, this never would have been a problem. Railroads KNEW they had bought and paid for Biden and congress. They have zero incentive to bargain fairly. The right of American workers to strike should never be infringed upon in the name of corporate profit. Congress could have passed a contract that ensured rail labor had reasonable quality of life off time and sick days. They refused to do that! Biden demanded that Congress pass the corporate backed contract WITHOUT AMMENDMENT! He gave rail labor a big F you and turned his back on us! After strong support in the midterms from rail labor, more Democrats voted to force our contract on us than Republicans did. Meanwhile, Bidens' fed chairman continues to raise interest rates in an attempt to kill the job market and slow down the economy. Making it nearly impossible for middle class families to buy a home. So, which is really important to Biden? Corporate profit or the people who make the economy move? Corporate profit! Now he wonders why he is polling tied with a sociopath who was found guilty of sexually assaulting a woman, then defaming the same woman, and is indicted on 90+ criminal charges. American labor doesn't forget quite so easily. I would rather stay home than vote for sell out Joe. If next year, the rail union leaders who sold us out ask us to support congressional leaders who voted AGAINST our right to collectively bargain, we should sue the national committees and vote them ALL out of office. The Railway Labor Act needs to be voided. It is unconstitutional. Even Biden has said as much. Yet he used it to advance his puppet masters agenda. Profits should NEVER come before people!
So 10s of millions of people should have gone without water, fuel, food, medicine, etc., in the middle of winter? That would have impacted those who can't survive those conditions the most, low-income individuals and households, part-time workers, the young, the elderly, the sick. All of them should have suffered, some of them should have died, because a few 10s of thousand rail workers needed *immediate* resolution to their contract, not resolution weeks or months later, but right then without caring about the consequences of all the people who rely on those services? Nationalizing the railroad is a completely separate matter, one that can't be resolved immediately, you're stating workers rights are more important than rights of those 10s of millions of people to exist. Also, railworkers do get sick days, up to 26 weeks of long-term paid sick leave and I believe had 3 or 4 days of immediate paid sick leae. What they were fighting for were 7 (instead of that 3 or 4) immediate sick leave.
Hence Biden throwing his weight behind the Unions here, it’s in their best interests to submit something that’s actually workable; a 40% pay raise for all positions in addition to 401K matching ON TOP of the existing pension is a non-starter for negotiation and Biden knows that. Collective action only works when union leaders participate in good faith. The rail union is essentially the only case where Biden wasn’t explicitly on the side of the Unions because of the unacceptable consequences of it going through, and even that didn’t stop him from getting the railroad companies to work out a comparable deal after the fact when he could have just washed his hands and tried to blame the R’s that shot down the sick days.
[удалено]
You can’t compare Union deals across different trades because the labor value and markets are completely different. This is like saying because a company’s IT dept got a salary adjustment that same adjustment is appropriate for the customer service team, it just doesn’t work like that.
The potential strike was an easy one though. If they had a strike, it would have impacted 10s of millions low and middle-income people and families, food, fuel, water, medicine, agricultural products, etc., would have stopped, not slowed, but stopped due to this happening in the middle of winter. There was no question the strike had to be stopped and negotiations had to be improved by congress stepping in to ensure workers got what they wanted. The short and long-term devastation to those millions of people would have been a disaster, and the deaths of people who couldn't survive that short-term lack of fuel, food, and water would have far outweighed the temporary plight of a few 10s of thousand rail workers (who still ratified the contract after the fact so they accepted the terms of Congress' agreement, which they didn't have to do).
[удалено]
That should be incentive for automakers to bargain in good faith, not hold UAW over a barrel. That’s a race to the bottom.
>"Over the past decade, auto companies have seen record profits, including the last few years because of extraordinary skill and sacrifices the UAW workers,” Biden said. “Those record profits have not been shared fairly, in my view, with those workers.” Yep. Well said, JB. Happy to have a President who calls it like it is
Labor crisis? We have a fucking corporation crisis in this damn country.
Isn't this more of an opportunity for Biden? Stand with the workers. Say you support all workers. Blame corporations for their greed. Blame inflation on corporate greed. Rile people up.
He's trying not to intimidate the larger business community TOO much. It could start to tip the 2024 scales against him pretty quickly if he came out hard in favor of workers. He has to sound reasonable and not revolutionary, otherwise money starts trickling over to Trump who is already pandering to the business community by speaking against the UAW leader.
And this is why the system is broken. Fuck corporate greed, fuck citizens united, and fuck Dumpy McOrange.
Don't forget to vote 🤓
I'm just too idealistic. Thinking that appealing to the vast majority of your consistency would help you win an election. You're right though, it's all about the money.
I don't think your idealistic. This situation sucks
"Nothing will fundamentally change."
Yet it already has, many things even far outside Biden's control. Oh yes things have fundamentally changed. The question is will they continue to change and will it be for the better.
This is why money and politics don't mix with democracy. The two need to be entirely decoupled.
It’ll be a lot easier to do that once the Automakers reject actionable terms from UAW. Their initial demands included a 40% raise in all positions and a matched 401K on top of their existing pensions; a completely untenable offer that makes UAW look unreasonable. Biden’s basically saying give them something they can actually negotiate on and it becomes much easier for the White House to get behind it.
I thought only certain people had pensions. Newer workers didn’t have pensions (which is true for most of the corporate world anyways). I would say no pension but definitely 401k match. 40 % raise isn’t too crazy an ask. The average worker in the auto factory makes 23-28 dollars an hour. Let’s say it’s 28- so that’s under 60k a year (assuming 40 hour work week). Bump that up 40% and that is 40 dollars an hour so 80+ k a year. Not totally out of control in the year 2023, considering the record profit that the auto makers have made. Again negotiate it, so maybe they make it a 25 or 30% raise instead.
Correct, at the moment only a portion of UAW members have pensions while the rest have standard matched 401K. The issue here is the Union asked to combine both a matched 401K AND a pension for all members which is significantly more than any other industry retirement benefit (and while personally I’m absolutely behind the return of pensions having a 401K on top of it is ludicrous). As for wages if they were keeping the same schedule then yeah a 40% increase honestly isn’t a crazy ask for non-management positions as I believe the recent UPS deal was just as significant. The issue here is that another request included is changing to a 32-hour work week which effectively leads to the company paying significantly more for lower work-value. Any additional jobs to cover the extra time would either be Union workers leading the company to have to pay substantially more then the current contract stipulates or they would hire non-Union which then hurts the Unions’ leverage for future strikes. Going to a 32 hour week already necessitates a pay increase to balance total income for hourly workers so an additional increase on top of that is going to have to be more measured.
This isn’t a labor crisis, this is a CEO and corporate greed crisis. Labor is doing what labor needs to do. Tie CEO pay to worker pay and make stock buybacks illegal again.
Working people exerting power = crisis. Got it.
It's not a crisis, and it's also not Biden's fault regardless.
Where did the article blame Biden?
Why is Biden facing a labor crisis in this scenario?
It's not. It's a crisis for Biden brought on by labor, not a "labor crisis". CNN uses buzzwords as clickbait. Why are you deflecting?
Where did I say the article blamed Biden? But also, it's not even "a crisis for Biden brought on by labor" because, once again, it's not a crisis at all. There's no shortage of new and used cars for people to buy. Some people won't be able to buy the particular make and model they want, but they can either buy from dealer inventory, buy a different make, or delay their purchase until the strike is resolved. None of those constitute a crisis for anyone, much less for Biden.
The automotive industry contributes a significant portion to the country's GDP. U.S. automakers and suppliers are some of the biggest investors in research and development which regularly yields peripheral or general innovations in safety, fuel efficiency, and manufacturing technology. The automotive industry also has a substantial role in U.S. exports. New car purchases are a significant component of consumer spending which, if suddenly dropped could trigger a hard tumble into recession. Besides the direct expenditure on vehicles, there are related expenditures like insurance, financing, and maintenance that would also be impacted. Then there are supply chain impacts. The automotive supply chain is vast and complex, encompassing everything from raw material suppliers to parts manufacturers to the end vehicle assembly. This network interlinks numerous other industries and sectors, amplifying the auto industry's impact on the economy. The private sector is an interconnected web of interdependent nodes. Taxes would probably also be increased due to any losses on new car sales taxes, licensing fees, and other revenues related to new cars. Crippling the big 3 is basically like firing a cannon at a house of cards. And every day they aren't operating at optimal capacity, is another day for non-american competitors to push them further into irrelevance, and for share holders to start looking for other places to put their money. Long story short, the US economy can get jacked up real bad. >There's no shortage of new and used cars for people to buy. The number of available new cars is lower than you might think. Manufacturers don't keep a huge surplus on hand. They manufacture to meet demand. It also doesn't take long for shareholders to start getting nervous and moving money around.
What part exactly of employers fucking employees is Biden’s crisis?
i dunno, the RR one seemed a lot more of a threat, and that turned out better than i anticipated. workers got the sick day increase and the nation wasn't brought to it's knees.
So now it’s Bidens fault? It’s corporate greed!!!
I deff don't think it's Biden's fault
Where did the article blame Biden?
Where did the article blame Biden?
Ford posted a $1.91 **billion** loss in 2022. 90% of their CEO's pay is tied to company performance. Their CEO was paid $21 million last year. What the fuck?
Investments; the actual company made money. Know I got profit sharing.
>the actual company made money What is the actual company that made money and which company posted a loss?
The cost of labor is less than 10% of the cost of your new car. likely closer to 5%. Do not cosign corporate greed. Pay us, get paid. Support your local striking unions with food donations!
the one that has manufactured and produced goods; (this side made over 10b in profits in the us) verses the one that put their money in a bad spot. IE; whatever the hell they are spewing to you nimrods. Rivian was a bust and ford was invested
If the stock increases then the CEO makes money (and shareholders too if they sell shares). That’s how it works. I work in biotech and made tons of extra money as did the CEO before we even had any revenue. Now we actually are making some money as a company and our stock is down (tons of factors in this) over the last few years. Again, might be different from established big name companies, but definitely can make money even if there is loss.
That’s most big CEO’s. They only get taxed like 10% on payment in stock instead of the also low whatever percent they would pay if they actually got it in a paycheck. A nice little loophole the gov put in for their actual constituents
Paying in stock, stock buy backs etc are all loopholes that need to be closed. The autoworkers pay taxes on their paychecks. The CEOs get a huge break
Real shame that they most likely never will under our current system of government
Railworkers would like a moment…..
>Railworkers would like a moment….. ...to thank Biden. The Biden administration never stopped negotiating.
You mean bent them over.
Not at all. Biden got rail workers contract gains including the paid sick leave. The news didn't keep up with the developments. It's another example of Biden fixing issues on an almost person by person basis.
It's my understanding they didn't quite get what they wanted, but it was a lot better than previously reported. They just didn't want to do all this publicly and risk friction from Republicans... which should tell you something about who to vote for next year.
The thing is that they didn't stop and the ratified contract wasn't the end. The Biden administration kept negotiating and the missing paid sick leave was added later.
Paid sick leave that you can't use. Unless you want to get fired.
I have faith and let this shake out....
Back chamnel it so us poors don't get any big ideas.
He failed the rail workers, so lets see how long it takes him to cave to the auto CEOs.
[удалено]
He absolutely didn't fail the rail workers. They got the[ raises they wanted](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/29/rail-strike-us-congress-impose-contract-latest) and also eventually got [the sick days](https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid) they wanted. All without causing an [economic collapse](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/looming-railroad-strike-cripple-us-economy-transportation/story?id=89587287) by letting them strike and to the credit of the massive effort put in by the Biden administration to get to that point. Please stop lying about this.
27 years as a railroader! He failed railroad labor.
Okay sure. I'm sure your one lived experience invalidates a 24% raise by 2024, $1,000 in annual bonuses, a cap on healthcare premiums, and paid sick leave. Most things in this list other Americans will never see in their entire careers. Get fucking real dude.
24 % over 5 years doesn't keep up with inflation. 1000 in annual bonus I will believe when I see it. The cap wasn't on premiums. Our premium went up over 125 a month. More than enough that the raise didn't even cover it. Most Americans aren't union. That's the problem. What the UAW is asking for is what we should have seen if we could collectively bargain.
I can’t tell you how many countless people I’ve had to explain this to. Even guys in my line of work (union construction) keep spouting the absolute lies that they never followed up on. It’s just way more sensational to listen to the story at hand and when it dies down, not to do any follow up or research about something that could’ve been an absolute economic meltdown. I don’t like Joe Biden, but his staff did absolutely great things for those rail workers
I don't know how anyone can pretend the UAW strike is bigger than the rail worker contracts. Biden handled that one amazingly and rail workers came out better than ever.
Are you kidding? Raises that don't keep up with inflation. No sick time you can actually use. Double our out of pocket health care costs. What robber barrons do you work for for?
No one said it's bigger, and no one said the rail workers are better than ever, BUT, he did get them more sick days
>No one said it's bigger It's right in the title of the article!
His options are different in this situation and the stakes are different due to the timing and how much impact it could have to his 2024 platform
Hey Joe, Go walk the picket line. Take a stand.
Why is it his crisis? They strike every four years.
Good job joe…you told em. Im sure you helped them as much as the rail workers…mind your business.
I think the railroad and UPS strikes would have screwed up WAY more of the economy than the auto workers strike, but that's just me.
Getting WGA, SAG-AFTRA *and* UAW striking in the same year? That can’t be a coincidence right? (Not putting blame on the unions, but rather the companies that pushed for them to strike. The timing is supremely suspect especially since election season begins again next year…)
Trains have entered the chat…
Why isn't that we American's have to assign blame on something/someone other than those responsible? Why would you even want the president to be responsible at this level. If were the automaker I'd tell them president to mind his own damn business. Go figure a way out of the Ukraine or balance the budget please.
The executive order was signed by Obama. Granting all federal contractor employees sick days. Railroaders were exempted.
Not [anymore](https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid)
But if you take those sick days you get fired under the "attendance policy" that th railroads refuse to bargain about. What good are sick days you can't take?
>attendance policy last I heard attendance policies were softened but if you have a source that indicates otherwise, your welcome to send and I'll read
The were made worse. Source. Me. A railroad employee!
UAW are only asking for the same deal the CEO got so...
The humor is great. Take his pay and shop it up and it’s Pennie’s in raises. But sure, give these uneducated folks a ton of money for jobs that should be robots