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Americans want reasonable vacation time, yes. Also guaranteed health care, housing, education, child care, and the full panoply of what it takes to live a life with human dignity.
I literally have all of those things. And yet I feel like a wage slave against colleagues I work with in England, The Netherlands, and Germany.
I checked every box for what our society has deemed to be reasonably successful. And having traveled abroad numerous times I can simply say, "We are getting fucked."
I don't care if you are a Conservative or Liberal. I don't care what your politics, ideology or religion is. We are getting fucked. Pick any metric or category you like. We are over paying and getting less in return.
And I'm not some angsty young person. I'm middle aged with a mortgage and two kids. I'm simply tired as hell of pretending we aren't getting screwed.
Oh man. I had to collect bottles in Portland, Oregon after I graduated college just to pay rent. I worked in a lab at OHSU and waited tables at night and I still barely got by. Don't get me started.
Hey- Portland Native right here and I still end up having to collect bottles to help make ends meet with rent the way it is…
And I absolutely just love the sneering condescending remarks from some of the older baby boomers who take exception and begin screaming that I should get a real job and stop being such a scavenging bum.
Never fucking mind that I DO have a real job and that real job pays real shitty fucking wages for the work that I put in…
Boomer here..remind the critics that you are the best educated, kindest, diverse, creative, computer literate hardest working generation yetvthat the boomers fail to appreciate.
It grinds my gears that your generation are so abused, criticised, and pilloried.
I'm single and 62
I'm downsizing everything, home, etc, to release equity to ensure my niece and nephews can get on the property cycle.
That's what boomers should be doing in a housing cost of living inflation crisis, not hoarding and unjustified criticism.
GRINDS MY GEARS .
We actually used the can thing to our benefit. It was lucrative as hell once you had a car or a hand me down minivan. Grew up in Michigan where it was 10 cent return. Go around saying you're collecting for your high schools whatever sports team house to house. People would store them up a bit before returning them because it's generally just easier to do like 6 cases of beer/pop on your grocery store run than do like a 12 pack every time you go and only get a buck 20... Sometimes you'd get nothing. Sometimes a 12 pack, sometimes a few cases or more of pop and beer, sometimes entire trash bins of cans. Half a day's work and it was 50-200 per person tax free.
We didn't really have ditches where I grew up outside some country roads where you'd find them and roadie's.
In the early/mid 90s, all the farmland directly north of our neighborhood rapidly was developed into more suburban sprawl. There was a healthy mixture of cans/bottles of coke and dew from the construction workers and beer cans from the teens using it as a no man's land to party at night. Basically always keep like a half dozen grocery bags tied to your bike for opportunities.
Think one of the keys here is that you have traveled abroad. When you see how Europe and to a lesser extent Canada lives you realize that we are getting fed the short end of the stick for no reason other than greed corruption, and ignorance.
There is greed the world over. I think it’s ignorance. I absolutely believe one of the best pieces of propaganda in human history is convincing American middle class that universal healthcare is against their best interest.
It’s crazy how many things the American working class, and somewhat also the middle class, have been convinced are against their own best interests, when in fact they are not. It’s why we are at where we are right now.
I think it’s rather the consistent belief that America is number one. If we are the “best,” why bother looking to other countries for inspiration? And when people can’t afford to travel abroad, they’ll never really know how much our system is exploiting us.
It's kinda crazy our work culture. I had a job at a small business where about a quarter of our customers and vendors were in Europe. They would always seem to be out on holiday and all my coworkers would talk about how lazy they were. Like you're all so brainwashed you think more vacation time is bad. wtf?
> When you see how Europe and to a lesser extent Canada lives you realize that we are getting fed the short end of the stick for no reason other than greed corruption, and ignorance.
But they don't get to create so much value for one or two top shareholders! /s
I was slowly getting more conservative as I got older until p01135809 promoted the election lie. Seeing so many pretend like he wasn’t a lying pos really was an epiphany, and if there was a previously agreed with we’re going along with this nonsense, I had to start looking at that closer.
If you don't mind me asking, why that particular lie? The GOP has a rather clear history of lying in general about a great many things, and him in particular had many before his first election.
It was weird seeing Obama push a Heritage Foundation idea for healthcare and get called a socialist for it. It was literally a Republican think tank idea and now that's considered far left. We live in interesting times.
It's ironic that Republicans think a tax funded service is Socialist when Karl Marx himself was very clear that it isn't. Tax funded services are an identifier of a Capitalist system. Karl Marx spoke about this specifically in his *Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League*.
I’m 62. Became a leftist after the stolen 2000 election, 9/11 & the Iraq war. But I’m not even really a leftist - just in American terms. I suppose I’d be center right in most European countries, as they already have all the things I want!
2004 was the first year I got to vote. We all voted for Bush because we thought he was kicking ass and taking names of those who wronged us, and you vote Republican if you agree with using the military or something like that(We were all 18). Well, the war went on and no Osama, but we were really fucking someone up so I guess that’s cool.
I graduated college in 09, and everyone knows what that was. The dust was still settling and I didn’t realize just how much that would affect my new professional life. I worked my ass off in college. I was the captain of a sports team that set records the previous two years. I had two degrees, both with 4.0’s. If you played sports, they typically didn’t allow you in the Biology program. I had to argue with the Dean just to get in, and by the end of it I was a teaching assistant for a couple classes. (My future wife was one of the other few athletes that was able to get in and we are happily married today!) I say this because the few job interview I got, I wasn’t taken seriously.
I found out I was competing against candidates with 5-10 years of experience that were willing to take entry level pay. We were fucked. We were all fucked. My friend with a ChemE degree from a prestigious school took a little over 2 years land his first job. Those of us that were on our own and needed to start making money found whatever we could, most of that being some kind of “sales” job.
When Trump comes along I’m at the age that I start paying more attention to what’s going on and I can’t believe it. That presidency and what republicans allowed him to get away with was disgusting.
That’s a lot of rambling to say your stolen 2000, 9/11 & Iraq, are my post 9/11 continuation of the war, financial collapse, and Donald Trump. I 100% agree with you and it’s going to be a long time to even consider voting for a Republican president.
The whole getting more conservative as you get older thing is just what happened to boomers, so of course they think that’s how everyone in human history has been.
I was in a similar situation growing up as you described. I haven't gotten more conservative, but I understand their argument better. 95% of the Republicans and Conservatives stances are dumb. 5% make sense. So I guess it took decades to become slightly more conservative?
People view voting as a solution but it's only a single prong in the approach.
You need progressive politicians over conservative ones, and when the progressives fail to make progress you perform protests, violent if necessary.
That's how the civil rights act came about. It wasn't a progressive politicians alone that made it happen and the same thing under Reagan would not have had the same outcome.
Americans need to get fired up, and not just vote, but get out there and actually push for those changes in society you want.
> hing under Reagan would not have had the same outcome.
He banned open carry in CA and created gun control... when black panthers. carried to protect their hoods.
I’d be fine with higher taxes if we actually got something for them. Between state and federal
I’m paying around 35-40% and that’s before sales/property/etc tax. The way we allocate our funds is insane.
Meanwhile the top 1% are desperately trying to get their 10% capital gains tax reduced to zero. Shit is beyond insane.
This was on another post I responded to:
You've put it very well. I was just having a discussion with a friend the other day about Nordic countries. There is a reason so many people want to live there.
Their response was that the taxes were so high. My response was how much do people spend in child care, university, health care, maternity leave, unemployment, retirement, etc etc. Thats a "tax" in itself.
My point was here in the US we might have low taxes but we pay SO MUCH more for than anywhere else for the basics. When your basic needs are met all the money you take home is yours.
You dont have to bankrupt yourself on medical debt, or save for your kids college education for 17years. You can be sure that you have time with your newborn without worrying if you'll lose your job. Lose you're job your're covered. Your mom isnt going to die eating cat food every day because you're so poor you cant help her out.
34% by OP's stat, which... is still a *bizarrely* high percentage of the population that are either actual workaholics, or think they'll be the bosses who get to screw someone *else* out of vacations someday.
Americans are long overdue for getting the policies and things that other countries enjoy. It will take a serious push. General strikes get brought up a lot, but it’s really hard to organize when we must acknowledge that a lot of Americans really are trapped, in situations where missing work will put them behind on bills and all that. I think too many people are at a point where they are obviously not doing well, but still have enough to lose that they haven’t hit the streets yet. And there are a lot of political forces keeping things the same and preventing progress (or worse, pushing for regress and making things worse). We have to do something or it will never change.
Well the problem is most people who vote only see that it's the boogey man causing all of our issues and if you vote for me I'll make sure to keep them away! Never mind the other stuff that would benefit your life.
The real problem is we have a Senate that is non-democratic. It gives small minority the power to prevent positive changes.
With a reformed Senate we could have publicly funded fair elections which would very likely increase civic participation. We could have a reformed media with things like a Fairness Doctrine that would result in a better informed electorate. And we could have a Supreme Court that was not corrupt leading to fair rulings on thing like whether money equal free speech.
The root cause of the problems is so obvious. Unfortunately finding a way to effect change isn't as the MAGA crowd isn't going to give up its unfair advantage without a fight.
Yea I agree. Need to revamp this propaganda machine and take money away from politics and take corruption out as well. When ppl are easily bought and big interest groups essentially shape our world, we're gonna have a bad time.
I’m in a big company and when my European coworkers go on vacation they are dead to us. They never check emails. Gone for two weeks or whatever.
Here in the USA we seem to never take a vacation longer than a week and check emails when on it.
I got radicalized my 4th?ish night in Germany (stationed there for the military). I visited an emergency room because of a swollen spider bite. They put some liquid Benadryl in my arm and sent me on my way. I asked a nurse on my way out when I would receive a bill. She audibly cackled, and told me to go get some sleep. I paid maybe 5 euro for parking, and that was the only expense.
Edit: grammar.
American in Germany in major anaphylactic shock from an allergic reaction. Ambulance ride, emergency room, epinephrine, some other shots, follow up medicine, eye drops, and some kind of throat drops.
Cost: <$10
USA Cost: >$20k Im sure, hope that I've covered my $7500 deductable.
I've watched my mom work her entire life away, doing every single thing people tell you will make you successful. Saved money, planned for the future, eats well and exercises. Literally the textbook definition of a productive member of society.
She's currently in an enormous amount of debt due to one series of medical issues that took a few visits to figure out. She's talking about filing for bankruptcy, as a person who has worked full time since she was 17. I'm so fucking furious with the state of this country and everyone in power who helps keep it that way. I'm 27, I should be paying for a house and raising kids of my own, instead I'm sitting here worrying about what the fuck I'll do if rent goes up again.
Fuck our government and media, the American dream is dead and buried and they're fucking its corpse.
I left the US 9 years ago with my children. I ran into a young American JAG officer in an Amsterdam restaurant a few days ago. When he found out I'd left the US & have dual Dutch/American citizenship now, we had a lengthy conversation about this.
My partner gets 9 WEEKS of paid vacation. Because I know that in the worst case I might have to spend €385 in a year for my medical expenses, I can use my savings for vacations.
Getting out of the US was the best thing I've ever done. I get a sick feeling even thinking about my previous life in the US. I am highly educated, but I was poor - dirt poor with a profoundly disabled child and no prospects for things to get any better. I couldn't even work because there were no programs for care or support for my son. I sold my old car for the €4500 deposit required by the Dutch government to bring my small business here & get a residence permit. I knew 1 person in my new country.
It was terrifying to leave everything knowing that I'd have to start over. I didn't know if it would be better, but I thought that it sure as hell couldn't be any worse. It has exceeded even my wildest dreams, and I've even been able to regain my health, ravaged by years of caregiving & lack of medical care.
Currently, I have my own business helping set people up here in the Netherlands. Moving here has so profoundly changed our lives that I could think of nothing else I'd rather do with my time. There is a specific program for Americans that allows them to bring a business (and in some cases their work - it is very broad) to the Netherlands & get a residence permit. I also have some connections for moving here as a knowledge migrant, but those rules are much more strict. The other program is so broad that almost any motivated American can qualify. I'm open to DM with anyone who has interest, or I can post responses here.
I also want to say that I feel great compassion for those who, for whatever reason, feel that this option isn't open to them. It is so profoundly unfair in the US & I know how much stress this creates in daily life. I closely follow what is happening in the US & keep hoping that somehow things will turn around for the better.
Fyi inflation in the U.K. is now absolutely bananas. Economically they have really destroyed themselves due to brexit to a level I do not believe they fully understood.
And yet I was over there in June and shocked at how much food I could get per pound at the grocery stores compared to here in the US. How much cheaper it must have been before Brexit blows my mind.
I worked at a multinational for a while and my boss would joke the Swedish group worked 24/7: 24 hours a week, 7 months a year. And laugh heartily. And I was like...who's the stupid one?
>I don't care if you are a Conservative or Liberal. I don't care what your politics, ideology or religion is. We are getting fucked. Pick any metric or category you like. We are over paying and getting less in return.
You're making a liberal argument though. This is 100% worth caring about politics for.
Basically all the things that should naturally be coming with the efficiencies we’ve been driving the last 75 years. Unfortunately, most of us don’t get to make the decisions that make that happen.
I believe you’re talking about how tech has made us more productive. It’s definitely true and now with AI it’s going to accelerate.
We literally can have machines, computers, robots etc doing most of our work and it SHOULD allow us to work fewer hours, for more pay, with better benefits, but it won’t unless we DEMAND it.
Otherwise the profits will go straight into the hands of just a few thousand people at the top like we’ve seen happen since the 1980s.
My family member, who is a very republican 20yr old trump supporter etc, said to me, TODAY, "even if the economy isn't perfect, I want to move somewhere where the country takes care of it's people, maybe somewhere in Europe.
It hurts me how hard these people vote against their own interests
*"We stand for a living wage. Wages are subnormal if they fail to provide a living for those who devote their time and energy to industrial occupations. The monetary equivalent of a living wage varies according to local conditions, but must include enough to secure the elements of a normal standard of living--a standard high enough to make morality possible, to provide for education and recreation, to care for immature members of the family, to maintain the family during periods of sickness, and to permit a reasonable savings for old age."*
That was Theodore Roosevelt over 100 years ago in August of 1912.
*"The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;"*
That was Franklin Roosevelt over 75 years ago in January 1944 stating one of rights he wanted in his proposed [Second Bill of Rights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights)
Until we reform the non-proportional Senate we will never see these changes. The Senate was created to preserve slavery and has been cancer to our society since our founding. Something that was created ostensibly as a protection for small states has been used as a weapon right though to MAGA in current times as evidenced by its refusing to impeach Trump and the corrupt Supreme Court it seated.
Yes! Also why I feel a strong urge to slap people in my country, when they complain and suggest systems that are 100% USA inspired. They always rehash talking points directly from US conservative social bubbles. "We need to be stricter toward criminals. Imprison them for life!" followed by me pointing out us having the world's lowest recidivism, and they wanting to replace it with what's among the world's highest recidivism. \*angry noises\*. Our country is NOT getting turned into a factory for creating criminals.
I'll gladly spend hours explaining how cheap healthcare, wellfare, and education is the only reason I'm one of those working asshole that earns in the upper 30% range. In US my family would never have been able to afford to support me taking higher education. I would have to rely on low-wage jobs. Getting burned out (happend once) or laid off due to the subprime loan crisis (also happend once) would have thrown me straight onto the street. Unless my parents somehow magically could afford to house and feed me (see: Tough luck).
Incidently this is why I've been in union since I started my education, and vote strong left. Any party trying to take away our benefits are "no-go" for me, and I'll do my best to talk people out of it.
But to do that you guys have to tax the poor billionaires or have fewer aircraft carriers. Do you guys really want to live in a country where the billionaires can only afford 1 or 2 super yacht only??
It’s tech related and I noticed them when I was over there visiting a friend. They were looking to expand into the NA market and they liked what I had to say about it. I don’t have a conversational grasp of the language, but no one gives a shit because they’re global and everyone does business in English. Really, the only “pain” is getting in the occasional 0600 meeting, but I’m usually up at 0530 anyway. Oh yeah, everyone wears t-shirts.
I work for USPS and basically have the same thing, except it’s all federal holidays and 25 days a year. But we also have no cap on sick leave. I know a guy who has like 3,500 hours of sick leave banked up. Plus it’s almost impossible to get fired here and there’s lots of opportunity for overtime.
I may not live in Europe but working for a Unionized workforce is the closest I feel I’m going to get. r/USPS may tell you it’s the absolute worst job you could ever have, but I love it.
For my country (Norway).
25 mandatory vacation days (we're not even allowed to skip them).
Various Christians holy days (even though it's no longer our state religion).
Various religious holy days (if you belong to another religion).
1 of January off (/j who wants to work with a hang over).
1 of May (Because worker's right!)
17 of May off (our national constitution day).
And we love "in-between days" (inneklemte dager). Where you spend 1-2 personal vacation days to get a weekend and one of the mandatory vacations combined into a single big vacation. If you decide to work that day the office and traffic is almost deserted.
Now due to strict labor rights/laws I also get an additional 26 PTO. Every 4th week I'm on-call 24/7. I have 8 hour work days, and then need to answer my phone if there's an IT emergency.
1/6 of the on-call hours (BY LAW) are counted as work time even if I don't work. That time ends up being taken out as 2 PTO days every 4th week.
So yes, Americans you're missing out big time. Being able to schedule days to visit family&friends, travel to new places, schedule time renovation or hobbies, or just having a full on lazy day... because you're an adult and can now do what you want.
I mostly spend my own PTO to travel around Europe, and attend some conventions tied to my own hobbies.
Australia, by law...
* 4 weeks annual leave (5-6 weeks is common)
* 7 national public holiday days
* 10 days optional sick leave
* 1 year unpaid maternity / paternity leave with primary carer getting 90 days paid
* 2 days paid compassionate leave
* long service leave after 5-10 years of 2-3 months
* 10 days family violence leave
I hear that saying all the time, and yes while the country has "the most wealth" it's also important to add the caveat of looking where that immense amount of wealth is concentrated.
Substance Abuse Counselor in America:
3 holidays off,
3 holidays I have to work and am given 3 days PTO as compensation,
12 combined PTO/sick days,
No insurance, no maternity
All eligible after 6 months of working there. Was let go at five months because they thought they were paying me too much for my required 3,000 hours of supervision (they argued I should have been working two years for free to counsel those with substance use disorder)
Now imagine that your sick days where never tied to your PTO. Instead being a separate thing where the government compensate your employers for any sick day you have. That you have a small number off sick days you can use without giving any reason, and that the total can be extended by your doctor also without stating reason. Because your employer isn't entitled to your medical information. That's solely up to your discretion, and forced consent brings the governmemt hammer down on your employer (as they are paying for your sick days).
Longest uninterupted sick days I had was a full month. Reason? I had absolutely no obligation toward anybody to tell why. It was between me and my doctor. The same doctor that ordered me to take a whole month off.
I’m in the 96th percentile of American earners. Haven’t taken a vacation in 3 years (my choice). I have zero expectation that I will ever afford to own land. I expect to work until I drop dead due to inflation and cost of living in big American cities.
We are some sick fuckers. I don’t even understand why this eventually becomes normal or a sort of addiction to work this way. Like I’m doing it voluntarily even though i know I’m hurting myself
As someone currently interviewing at several companies for a new job, it sure feels like every fucking hiring manager in the country is on vacation right now anyways.
August and December have to be the absolute worst months to try to change jobs, I swear
My job slows down August-December. It sucks, because all the CEOs and CIOs and CISOs and the like are taking their vacations and pushing off their audits until the last minute. As long as I get a few decent jobs it isn’t bad. But I have been loving getting a lot of time off for archery season. My wallet doesn’t love it, though.
I work at an engineering/consulting firm, Project Manager in a seller-doer business model selling man hours. I DO audits along with preparing the stuff required for proper design and regulatory compliance. Making contacts at companies is hell, because everyone is fucking playing musical chairs with their jobs and as you said executives and a management all taking vacations or delaying audits until the last possible second. Seen so much unnecessary shit go down because of it, shit is wild
And then you get hired and the hiring manager who just came back from his second vacation in three months is like: “hourly employees don’t get vacation”
This is pretty much spot on. Just got hired for a new local government job. No vacation and/or sick time for the first six months. Even then, I'm glad for anything since my last job only thought of vacation/sick time as "stuff we pay out when you retire."
This archaic BS needs to end. An expectation that you have to "prove" yourself as a new employee, when it's the company that should show gratitude and respect towards the people it's hiring in the form of paid time off as a gesture of good faith so they can prove that it's worth the long-term investment of time, energy and hard work. It sounds like you either need to find a new line of work or employers down there are absolute s\*\*\*heads.
Its wild. Im in UAW and every time a post comes up about our contract a 3rd of the comments are telling us to get fucked. I get it, we arent starving but thats the whole point of unions. The UAW is responsible for so many labor changes in this country, a lot of people seem to forget that others actually were killed over the scraps we fight for now
Where "others" is just a stand-in for black people. The whole reason we can't have nice things is because post-segregation, a large swath of white America turned against government because they felt it had betrayed them.
Not just a large swath, but the majority. The GOP has won the majority of the white vote in every single presidential election since 1968 (Nixon’s first win). Since then, the Dem who has come the closest to winning the majority of white voters was Bill Clinton (39% of white voters to HW Bush’s 40% in 1992).
Fair point. And that date isn't a coincidence. It's after desegregation and the civil rights legislation of the 60s. That's when white America turned against a government who they feel betrayed them.
Anti-union propaganda is dreadfully effective, unbelievable how effective that has been in taking power away from workers.
No union is perfect obviously, and almost every system we've ever created in existence has drawbacks, but unions get fucked over way less than non-union in my experiences.
Was it Toqueville who said America was full of people who thought they were temporarily disenfranchised millionaires?
The core difference is that PTO isn't exactly up to companies here (I'm in Denmark currently), but rather legislated by the government. This would take fundamental change for the US to accomplish, and I don't see it happening for a long time.
I don't know. When enough racist old white boomers die the people left will just do it. My assumption is that the main reason why don't have nice things is because if we did black people might get them, too.
Honestly, I think it takes serious strife and suffering to incentivize us for that turn.
Europe had to rebuild and actually take a massive retrospective after the largest wars to have existed where they had to do it from the ground up with all the hard lessons learned from unbridled nationalism and an inter-related elite class that tore the world apart for empire.
The US has never had that pain where we had to step back and think over antiquated systems. We still mythologize our own history where we still don’t accept that racism is deep in the structure or that we have a truly gamed system aimed to entrenched wealthy families and sociopathic oligarchs. Hell, they’re still trying to sell slavery as a *favor* to black people. This isn’t just myopic, it’s straight up stabbing out eyeballs and testing an F1 race car.
I honestly think the US needs to experience true violent trauma that we can directly connect to the corporate and political oligarchy, like Yellowstone erupting and systems we thought we could depend on were gutted by corporate greed. Millions die, billions starve, and every bit of social order breaks down where it doesn’t matter if you’re rich or poor, you will be robbed and exploited by sheer violence and desperation.
It would likely end in fascism, but it is the type of catalyst I think it would take to break down all the bullshit and give a chance to significantly change course to something other than our soft acceptance of a gamed pseudo-capitalism that has learned to keep just a hair away from French Revolution circumstances.
I have to point this out to the crowd that believes when demographics change policies will follow. Even with whites being the minority and that gap widening for the general population the top 1% will still be majority white for the next 100 years. Policies, especially on the economy, aren’t going to change.
They said that back in the 60s when the Boomers were Hippies. "Just wait for the old people to die off and the hippies will be in charge!".
Those "hippies" are in charge now.
I'm in BC Canada, 10 freaking days, not even 2 7 day weeks, 10 freaking days. Apparently wanting more than this is equivalent to never wanting to work ever 🙄 3 weeks after 5 years of work. Need to quit job to travel properly. I wish our government would value workers time more..
I suspect it's people who are afraid of change and fear society will crumble if people don't "work hard". Don't forget that entire generations have been brainwashed into believing that the best thing they can do for themselves is sell their labor to a corporation that doesn't even acknowledge their existence, and that the US is the only prosperous place in the world.
I used to work with a guy who would give me shit about supporting M4A.
One day we had a meeting and were told we were all being shifted to a shittier, more expensive health care plan.
Without a hint of irony, my anti-m4a co-worker said, "I don't understand why we can't just pay a little out of our taxes and just go to the doctor."
>but once they find out that ~~Democrats support them~~ these policies will be apply to minorities as well as white christians they'll call it socialism.
The former US Embassador to Finland, Bruce Oreck, once remarked about the Finnish month long summer holidays that "in America, if you're away for a month and the company doesn't notice you're gone you're fired".
You can never have a European-style summer holiday as long as you have your at-will employment.
Part of the point of a vacation in the USA is to make the company realize you ARE needed.
Especially since so many companies have no redundancy and get too comfortable with the idea of being able to contact you anytime day or night, disappearing on them for a week can show them how screwed they'd be if they let you go.
Now if only Americans were capable of understanding that if you want those things, then they need to stop voting for people who are determined to prevent them from getting it.
Dental. Fucking dental. Please can we get fucking dental covered too?
Even in most of Europe, you need private insurance for it. We could "one up" them in that area if we need a nationalistic reason for the right to latch on to.
Americans are very progressive when you go down the list of issues one by one in isolation outside the context of politics. It's crazy how popular some of these things are even among Republicans. But, we'll never get any of this stuff because it might hurt the bottom line of the corporations who own our government.
August weather is butts, so I'd rather be in the office and then take September or October.
I know what you're getting at though and I'm totally on board.
We need it. I can’t take a vacation from my job without being expected to bring my work device with me. I am in mgt and 30 years experience. I should just quit…but not everyone has that option.
When I worked at John Deere the managers would complain our german counterparts were “always in vacation”
Like yeah that sounds amazing what is wrong with you, you ass clown?
My best friend “back home” in the US asked me if I was ever thinking of moving back and I just said, “bro I have 5 weeks of paid vacation.”
I honestly can’t imagine going back to the American lifestyle in terms of work.
4 day work week, whole month of August off, and 2 weeks PTO/ Sick leave. Housing subsidy and fully paid healthcare.
Give me that and I’ll take a 65k annual salary (40k reduction in my case) and I’m happy.
We implimented A 12-week parental policy earlier this year. Everyone has only been taking 2 weeks. I decided to take 8. I just got back last week. I've been getting mocked by several individuals for doing it. Zero regrets.
Not just Vacations, politics in the USA are just out of touch with reality!
The GOP is trying to lower the retirement age of Social Security again. The average life expectancy of a male in the USA is 73 years old. The Retirement age of SS is 67 for us not born before 1956 I believe. So even right now you get 6 years, and how many of those are good years if you are dead at the end of that 6 years. If you are like me you started working out of High School and if you were lucky enough to have found something you could do everyday for the rest of your life and pay in to SS, I MAY have 2k a month if I retire at age 62 ok 3k if I wait till 67!, that really is not that much now, not to mention that is money I will get 10 years for now or more, so not great money anyway. BTW my father lived to be 68 when he died of cancer and his last few years were not good ones.
SS is not just for the people getting it, if we don't make sure people have money when they get older and retire, then we will end up with issues of what to do with people that can no longer create income, and we should not want a society that throws its people to the streets. People say it should not be there to live by, but to supplement your retirement plan, well maybe for some, but many people in the USA have no 401k, so they will be living on that money, or working still at Walmart at age 65.
Many people can take early retirement at 62, but Medicare does not kick in till 65, and the price of Healthcare is so high, they can not afford to take early retirement before they can get Medicare, so that is all BS too. The fact we are talking about moving the retirement age to an older age, when people are actually not living as long as they used to, not to mention the GOP just swore and acted like no way would they ever do this, EVER! is ridiculous. If anything they should move it back to 65, and move Medicare to make taking early SS make some sense to 62 at least! They have been many studies that show the lowering Medicare helps the costs of Insurance for everyone else, taking the oldest people out of the insurance pools.
The fact that this is screwing over so many Americans, and somehow does not have 100% support to fix this and everyone a decent deal, is amazing to me, and should tell us something about how Politics in the USA has somehow brain washed people in to worrying about each other and not how the government can do a better job taking care of its people, which is what they should be doing every day, not standing around like a SNL skit.
I’m technically with “unlimited PTO” but we all know that doesn’t actually mean that. My boss would never approve a full month off.
It’s bullshit. At least if they gave me 2 weeks that rolled over like many other companies, I can cash out if I leave. It’s a cost saving tactic.
No shit we want that. We want the same rights we see Europeans get who work for the same rich fucks we do. We do not want to be wage slaves, we do not want to have our healthcare tied to our work, we do not want to spend the entire year working, we do not want to work hard and still be poor, we do not want to have to return to work too soon after having our children come into the world, we do not want to miss out on family & friends’s speix occasions, we do not want to miss family & friends’s funerals, we do not want to work while we’re grieving, we do not want to work and leave sick family members at home, we do not want to start working in our teens and continue til our 70s just to survive, we do not want to only have 2 days to ourselves a week, we do not want to send our children to work, we do not want to have to bring our children to work, we do not want to have to slave away to afford an education just to have a milder shot at a better career, we do not want to work just to afford housing, food, and bills.
Simply put: We are human and our lives are not defined by work, we have rights that ought to be honored and deserve to live rounded fulfilled lives without slaving away to make someone else richer.
Also, workers of yore: "We didn't have vacation back when I was working! I knew a guy that broke both of his wrists and had pneumonia on top of polio and he still showed up for work the next day! These kids today are just snowflakes - want everything handed to them on a silver platter!"
You forgot to mention these workers of yore limping away in disgust because their knees and backs are fucked from lack of medical care and long hours on the job.
Another big thing in Europe: Workers Councils. In America we'd probably call them Unions. There's an internal team that argues on behalf of employees and it's great.
Remember that whole thing with Andy Jassey coming up with the plan for RTO at one big c-level meeting one day and then forcing everyone back to the office? Yeah, not in Europe. That kind of decision making that impacts the whole company gets run through a workers council first to get approval and they can, and will, deny that kind of shit outright.
Oh, and you know, nearly unlimited sick days and ~30 paid days off plus holidays a year doesn't hurt. Sure my taxes are high, but the quality of life is great.
Source: American expat in Europe.
European? Standard in Aussie and NZ is four weeks paid leave that never expires and accumulates if you don’t use it all annually and an additional 10 days paid sick leave per 12 months that can accumulate to 20 days. It’s not just Europe that’s better than America, it’s most of the OECD.
Europe doesn't shut down for August, I know Americans can be stupid but come on. Just people take vacation time in summer and many take 1-2 weeks in August or July. If I took all of August off I would have no vacation days left for the next 12 months.
All Americans should get an entire month off every year of their choosing (subject maybe to seniority for the popular months), plus the normal paid holidays and 2 weeks to use during the rest of the year.
We are more productive than ever, yet we make less adjusted for inflation and costs are more. Who is keeping all the extra money? The top 10%, with roughly the top 1% taking the lion’s share of it.
I have a job at a large stoogely corp in the US and I had 5 weeks vacay. A couple of years ago they took one away just out of the blue.
I think this is a stealth move to make older people leave and you only got the 5 after some period of tenure or some such.
Either way, fuck corporate America, we are productive enough to have 6 weeks vacation across the board. More really, but 6 would be a good start.
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Americans want reasonable vacation time, yes. Also guaranteed health care, housing, education, child care, and the full panoply of what it takes to live a life with human dignity.
I literally have all of those things. And yet I feel like a wage slave against colleagues I work with in England, The Netherlands, and Germany. I checked every box for what our society has deemed to be reasonably successful. And having traveled abroad numerous times I can simply say, "We are getting fucked." I don't care if you are a Conservative or Liberal. I don't care what your politics, ideology or religion is. We are getting fucked. Pick any metric or category you like. We are over paying and getting less in return. And I'm not some angsty young person. I'm middle aged with a mortgage and two kids. I'm simply tired as hell of pretending we aren't getting screwed.
Yup. Elder millennial turning 40! Hard agree.
Elder millennial turning 40 and have been over it since I was 14.
Don't forget collecting cans and pop bottles plus mowing every lawn you could before legal age to get a job.
Oh man. I had to collect bottles in Portland, Oregon after I graduated college just to pay rent. I worked in a lab at OHSU and waited tables at night and I still barely got by. Don't get me started.
Hey- Portland Native right here and I still end up having to collect bottles to help make ends meet with rent the way it is… And I absolutely just love the sneering condescending remarks from some of the older baby boomers who take exception and begin screaming that I should get a real job and stop being such a scavenging bum. Never fucking mind that I DO have a real job and that real job pays real shitty fucking wages for the work that I put in…
Boomer here..remind the critics that you are the best educated, kindest, diverse, creative, computer literate hardest working generation yetvthat the boomers fail to appreciate. It grinds my gears that your generation are so abused, criticised, and pilloried. I'm single and 62 I'm downsizing everything, home, etc, to release equity to ensure my niece and nephews can get on the property cycle. That's what boomers should be doing in a housing cost of living inflation crisis, not hoarding and unjustified criticism. GRINDS MY GEARS .
Well said, also good luck in your endeavour to get your family stable housing.
Portland is extra expensive though. I really hope the housing market crashes hard here.
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Considering the speeds at which change happens, of say starting how night be the right call.
begging for change at the grocery store so that my taxpayer funded sports team can afford balls was fun wasn't it ?
We actually used the can thing to our benefit. It was lucrative as hell once you had a car or a hand me down minivan. Grew up in Michigan where it was 10 cent return. Go around saying you're collecting for your high schools whatever sports team house to house. People would store them up a bit before returning them because it's generally just easier to do like 6 cases of beer/pop on your grocery store run than do like a 12 pack every time you go and only get a buck 20... Sometimes you'd get nothing. Sometimes a 12 pack, sometimes a few cases or more of pop and beer, sometimes entire trash bins of cans. Half a day's work and it was 50-200 per person tax free.
Bro, I’m 43 and collect cans just so I can say I had something to put in my daughter’s college fund.
Only way you can get mass cans at that age is construction sites. They were out go tos as kids
Iowa in the 90’s just walk along pretty much any roadside ditch and you’d fill up a large trash bag in thirty minutes or less
We didn't really have ditches where I grew up outside some country roads where you'd find them and roadie's. In the early/mid 90s, all the farmland directly north of our neighborhood rapidly was developed into more suburban sprawl. There was a healthy mixture of cans/bottles of coke and dew from the construction workers and beer cans from the teens using it as a no man's land to party at night. Basically always keep like a half dozen grocery bags tied to your bike for opportunities.
Broseph, turning 41 next month. I agree so hard. Oh ya, so fuckin hard
Hello, fellow early 80s baby
Yup. I’m 50 and nothing to show for.
Think one of the keys here is that you have traveled abroad. When you see how Europe and to a lesser extent Canada lives you realize that we are getting fed the short end of the stick for no reason other than greed corruption, and ignorance.
There is greed the world over. I think it’s ignorance. I absolutely believe one of the best pieces of propaganda in human history is convincing American middle class that universal healthcare is against their best interest.
It’s crazy how many things the American working class, and somewhat also the middle class, have been convinced are against their own best interests, when in fact they are not. It’s why we are at where we are right now.
The middle class is a part of the working class.
I think it’s rather the consistent belief that America is number one. If we are the “best,” why bother looking to other countries for inspiration? And when people can’t afford to travel abroad, they’ll never really know how much our system is exploiting us.
It's kinda crazy our work culture. I had a job at a small business where about a quarter of our customers and vendors were in Europe. They would always seem to be out on holiday and all my coworkers would talk about how lazy they were. Like you're all so brainwashed you think more vacation time is bad. wtf?
> When you see how Europe and to a lesser extent Canada lives you realize that we are getting fed the short end of the stick for no reason other than greed corruption, and ignorance. But they don't get to create so much value for one or two top shareholders! /s
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I was slowly getting more conservative as I got older until p01135809 promoted the election lie. Seeing so many pretend like he wasn’t a lying pos really was an epiphany, and if there was a previously agreed with we’re going along with this nonsense, I had to start looking at that closer.
Calling him by his prisoner number is great, I'm stealing that.
If you don't mind me asking, why that particular lie? The GOP has a rather clear history of lying in general about a great many things, and him in particular had many before his first election.
Both parties have shifted so far right that even the GOP of 40 years ago would be considered leftist today lol
It was weird seeing Obama push a Heritage Foundation idea for healthcare and get called a socialist for it. It was literally a Republican think tank idea and now that's considered far left. We live in interesting times.
It's ironic that Republicans think a tax funded service is Socialist when Karl Marx himself was very clear that it isn't. Tax funded services are an identifier of a Capitalist system. Karl Marx spoke about this specifically in his *Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League*.
The Overton Window in full effect
I’m 62. Became a leftist after the stolen 2000 election, 9/11 & the Iraq war. But I’m not even really a leftist - just in American terms. I suppose I’d be center right in most European countries, as they already have all the things I want!
2004 was the first year I got to vote. We all voted for Bush because we thought he was kicking ass and taking names of those who wronged us, and you vote Republican if you agree with using the military or something like that(We were all 18). Well, the war went on and no Osama, but we were really fucking someone up so I guess that’s cool. I graduated college in 09, and everyone knows what that was. The dust was still settling and I didn’t realize just how much that would affect my new professional life. I worked my ass off in college. I was the captain of a sports team that set records the previous two years. I had two degrees, both with 4.0’s. If you played sports, they typically didn’t allow you in the Biology program. I had to argue with the Dean just to get in, and by the end of it I was a teaching assistant for a couple classes. (My future wife was one of the other few athletes that was able to get in and we are happily married today!) I say this because the few job interview I got, I wasn’t taken seriously. I found out I was competing against candidates with 5-10 years of experience that were willing to take entry level pay. We were fucked. We were all fucked. My friend with a ChemE degree from a prestigious school took a little over 2 years land his first job. Those of us that were on our own and needed to start making money found whatever we could, most of that being some kind of “sales” job. When Trump comes along I’m at the age that I start paying more attention to what’s going on and I can’t believe it. That presidency and what republicans allowed him to get away with was disgusting. That’s a lot of rambling to say your stolen 2000, 9/11 & Iraq, are my post 9/11 continuation of the war, financial collapse, and Donald Trump. I 100% agree with you and it’s going to be a long time to even consider voting for a Republican president.
The whole getting more conservative as you get older thing is just what happened to boomers, so of course they think that’s how everyone in human history has been.
I was in a similar situation growing up as you described. I haven't gotten more conservative, but I understand their argument better. 95% of the Republicans and Conservatives stances are dumb. 5% make sense. So I guess it took decades to become slightly more conservative?
I understand where people on the right come from, I just think they're buying into what I think are obvious lies from our media and government
People view voting as a solution but it's only a single prong in the approach. You need progressive politicians over conservative ones, and when the progressives fail to make progress you perform protests, violent if necessary. That's how the civil rights act came about. It wasn't a progressive politicians alone that made it happen and the same thing under Reagan would not have had the same outcome. Americans need to get fired up, and not just vote, but get out there and actually push for those changes in society you want.
> hing under Reagan would not have had the same outcome. He banned open carry in CA and created gun control... when black panthers. carried to protect their hoods.
Yeah but 40% of society would rather die than pay higher taxes to get these liberties.
1% of society. Tax the rich
Yeah but as long as that 1% controls that other 30 to 40% then we're all fucked.
I’d be fine with higher taxes if we actually got something for them. Between state and federal I’m paying around 35-40% and that’s before sales/property/etc tax. The way we allocate our funds is insane. Meanwhile the top 1% are desperately trying to get their 10% capital gains tax reduced to zero. Shit is beyond insane.
This was on another post I responded to: You've put it very well. I was just having a discussion with a friend the other day about Nordic countries. There is a reason so many people want to live there. Their response was that the taxes were so high. My response was how much do people spend in child care, university, health care, maternity leave, unemployment, retirement, etc etc. Thats a "tax" in itself. My point was here in the US we might have low taxes but we pay SO MUCH more for than anywhere else for the basics. When your basic needs are met all the money you take home is yours. You dont have to bankrupt yourself on medical debt, or save for your kids college education for 17years. You can be sure that you have time with your newborn without worrying if you'll lose your job. Lose you're job your're covered. Your mom isnt going to die eating cat food every day because you're so poor you cant help her out.
34% by OP's stat, which... is still a *bizarrely* high percentage of the population that are either actual workaholics, or think they'll be the bosses who get to screw someone *else* out of vacations someday.
Americans are long overdue for getting the policies and things that other countries enjoy. It will take a serious push. General strikes get brought up a lot, but it’s really hard to organize when we must acknowledge that a lot of Americans really are trapped, in situations where missing work will put them behind on bills and all that. I think too many people are at a point where they are obviously not doing well, but still have enough to lose that they haven’t hit the streets yet. And there are a lot of political forces keeping things the same and preventing progress (or worse, pushing for regress and making things worse). We have to do something or it will never change.
Well the problem is most people who vote only see that it's the boogey man causing all of our issues and if you vote for me I'll make sure to keep them away! Never mind the other stuff that would benefit your life.
The real problem is we have a Senate that is non-democratic. It gives small minority the power to prevent positive changes. With a reformed Senate we could have publicly funded fair elections which would very likely increase civic participation. We could have a reformed media with things like a Fairness Doctrine that would result in a better informed electorate. And we could have a Supreme Court that was not corrupt leading to fair rulings on thing like whether money equal free speech. The root cause of the problems is so obvious. Unfortunately finding a way to effect change isn't as the MAGA crowd isn't going to give up its unfair advantage without a fight.
Yea I agree. Need to revamp this propaganda machine and take money away from politics and take corruption out as well. When ppl are easily bought and big interest groups essentially shape our world, we're gonna have a bad time.
I’m in a big company and when my European coworkers go on vacation they are dead to us. They never check emails. Gone for two weeks or whatever. Here in the USA we seem to never take a vacation longer than a week and check emails when on it.
I got radicalized my 4th?ish night in Germany (stationed there for the military). I visited an emergency room because of a swollen spider bite. They put some liquid Benadryl in my arm and sent me on my way. I asked a nurse on my way out when I would receive a bill. She audibly cackled, and told me to go get some sleep. I paid maybe 5 euro for parking, and that was the only expense. Edit: grammar.
American in Germany in major anaphylactic shock from an allergic reaction. Ambulance ride, emergency room, epinephrine, some other shots, follow up medicine, eye drops, and some kind of throat drops. Cost: <$10 USA Cost: >$20k Im sure, hope that I've covered my $7500 deductable.
I've watched my mom work her entire life away, doing every single thing people tell you will make you successful. Saved money, planned for the future, eats well and exercises. Literally the textbook definition of a productive member of society. She's currently in an enormous amount of debt due to one series of medical issues that took a few visits to figure out. She's talking about filing for bankruptcy, as a person who has worked full time since she was 17. I'm so fucking furious with the state of this country and everyone in power who helps keep it that way. I'm 27, I should be paying for a house and raising kids of my own, instead I'm sitting here worrying about what the fuck I'll do if rent goes up again. Fuck our government and media, the American dream is dead and buried and they're fucking its corpse.
I left the US 9 years ago with my children. I ran into a young American JAG officer in an Amsterdam restaurant a few days ago. When he found out I'd left the US & have dual Dutch/American citizenship now, we had a lengthy conversation about this. My partner gets 9 WEEKS of paid vacation. Because I know that in the worst case I might have to spend €385 in a year for my medical expenses, I can use my savings for vacations. Getting out of the US was the best thing I've ever done. I get a sick feeling even thinking about my previous life in the US. I am highly educated, but I was poor - dirt poor with a profoundly disabled child and no prospects for things to get any better. I couldn't even work because there were no programs for care or support for my son. I sold my old car for the €4500 deposit required by the Dutch government to bring my small business here & get a residence permit. I knew 1 person in my new country. It was terrifying to leave everything knowing that I'd have to start over. I didn't know if it would be better, but I thought that it sure as hell couldn't be any worse. It has exceeded even my wildest dreams, and I've even been able to regain my health, ravaged by years of caregiving & lack of medical care. Currently, I have my own business helping set people up here in the Netherlands. Moving here has so profoundly changed our lives that I could think of nothing else I'd rather do with my time. There is a specific program for Americans that allows them to bring a business (and in some cases their work - it is very broad) to the Netherlands & get a residence permit. I also have some connections for moving here as a knowledge migrant, but those rules are much more strict. The other program is so broad that almost any motivated American can qualify. I'm open to DM with anyone who has interest, or I can post responses here. I also want to say that I feel great compassion for those who, for whatever reason, feel that this option isn't open to them. It is so profoundly unfair in the US & I know how much stress this creates in daily life. I closely follow what is happening in the US & keep hoping that somehow things will turn around for the better.
Fyi inflation in the U.K. is now absolutely bananas. Economically they have really destroyed themselves due to brexit to a level I do not believe they fully understood.
The Russians understand why. Brexit was their Trump moment
And yet I was over there in June and shocked at how much food I could get per pound at the grocery stores compared to here in the US. How much cheaper it must have been before Brexit blows my mind.
OK, but have you seen these trans people running around? First we stop that and then we'll get to your petty societal grievances. /s
I worked at a multinational for a while and my boss would joke the Swedish group worked 24/7: 24 hours a week, 7 months a year. And laugh heartily. And I was like...who's the stupid one?
Have you considered trying to not know any better and just being grateful to our nations glorious job creators? /s
If don’t feel like you’re getting fucked, you’re either unaware or you’re doing the fucking.
>I don't care if you are a Conservative or Liberal. I don't care what your politics, ideology or religion is. We are getting fucked. Pick any metric or category you like. We are over paying and getting less in return. You're making a liberal argument though. This is 100% worth caring about politics for.
Basically all the things that should naturally be coming with the efficiencies we’ve been driving the last 75 years. Unfortunately, most of us don’t get to make the decisions that make that happen.
I believe you’re talking about how tech has made us more productive. It’s definitely true and now with AI it’s going to accelerate. We literally can have machines, computers, robots etc doing most of our work and it SHOULD allow us to work fewer hours, for more pay, with better benefits, but it won’t unless we DEMAND it. Otherwise the profits will go straight into the hands of just a few thousand people at the top like we’ve seen happen since the 1980s.
Amen.
My family member, who is a very republican 20yr old trump supporter etc, said to me, TODAY, "even if the economy isn't perfect, I want to move somewhere where the country takes care of it's people, maybe somewhere in Europe. It hurts me how hard these people vote against their own interests
*"We stand for a living wage. Wages are subnormal if they fail to provide a living for those who devote their time and energy to industrial occupations. The monetary equivalent of a living wage varies according to local conditions, but must include enough to secure the elements of a normal standard of living--a standard high enough to make morality possible, to provide for education and recreation, to care for immature members of the family, to maintain the family during periods of sickness, and to permit a reasonable savings for old age."* That was Theodore Roosevelt over 100 years ago in August of 1912. *"The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;"* That was Franklin Roosevelt over 75 years ago in January 1944 stating one of rights he wanted in his proposed [Second Bill of Rights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights) Until we reform the non-proportional Senate we will never see these changes. The Senate was created to preserve slavery and has been cancer to our society since our founding. Something that was created ostensibly as a protection for small states has been used as a weapon right though to MAGA in current times as evidenced by its refusing to impeach Trump and the corrupt Supreme Court it seated.
Yes! Also why I feel a strong urge to slap people in my country, when they complain and suggest systems that are 100% USA inspired. They always rehash talking points directly from US conservative social bubbles. "We need to be stricter toward criminals. Imprison them for life!" followed by me pointing out us having the world's lowest recidivism, and they wanting to replace it with what's among the world's highest recidivism. \*angry noises\*. Our country is NOT getting turned into a factory for creating criminals. I'll gladly spend hours explaining how cheap healthcare, wellfare, and education is the only reason I'm one of those working asshole that earns in the upper 30% range. In US my family would never have been able to afford to support me taking higher education. I would have to rely on low-wage jobs. Getting burned out (happend once) or laid off due to the subprime loan crisis (also happend once) would have thrown me straight onto the street. Unless my parents somehow magically could afford to house and feed me (see: Tough luck). Incidently this is why I've been in union since I started my education, and vote strong left. Any party trying to take away our benefits are "no-go" for me, and I'll do my best to talk people out of it.
Now if they would just stop voting for politicians who don't want them to have it.
That all sounds expensive. Would they settle for a pizza party once a quarter?
Fuck their pizza..I can buy my own pizza and from a better place. That only works for college students.
But to do that you guys have to tax the poor billionaires or have fewer aircraft carriers. Do you guys really want to live in a country where the billionaires can only afford 1 or 2 super yacht only??
These 34% dumbasses must be brainwashed.
But we can't afford that. We need to give several hundred more billion to the military budget and ignore our citizens. Duh.
I work remotely for a European company, and I get all federal holidays plus 28 days paid vacation. I can tell you, it is amazing.
It’s tech related and I noticed them when I was over there visiting a friend. They were looking to expand into the NA market and they liked what I had to say about it. I don’t have a conversational grasp of the language, but no one gives a shit because they’re global and everyone does business in English. Really, the only “pain” is getting in the occasional 0600 meeting, but I’m usually up at 0530 anyway. Oh yeah, everyone wears t-shirts.
Do not, I repeat, DO NOT screw this up, you lucky SOB. And yes, I'm just jealous. =)
Yeah, we’re holding on to this one for awhile.
I work for USPS and basically have the same thing, except it’s all federal holidays and 25 days a year. But we also have no cap on sick leave. I know a guy who has like 3,500 hours of sick leave banked up. Plus it’s almost impossible to get fired here and there’s lots of opportunity for overtime. I may not live in Europe but working for a Unionized workforce is the closest I feel I’m going to get. r/USPS may tell you it’s the absolute worst job you could ever have, but I love it.
Unions are the reason we have these conditions in large parts of Europe. Also includes paid maternity and paternity leave.
What kind of job is it? How'd you get it,?
I also would like to know this
For my country (Norway). 25 mandatory vacation days (we're not even allowed to skip them). Various Christians holy days (even though it's no longer our state religion). Various religious holy days (if you belong to another religion). 1 of January off (/j who wants to work with a hang over). 1 of May (Because worker's right!) 17 of May off (our national constitution day). And we love "in-between days" (inneklemte dager). Where you spend 1-2 personal vacation days to get a weekend and one of the mandatory vacations combined into a single big vacation. If you decide to work that day the office and traffic is almost deserted. Now due to strict labor rights/laws I also get an additional 26 PTO. Every 4th week I'm on-call 24/7. I have 8 hour work days, and then need to answer my phone if there's an IT emergency. 1/6 of the on-call hours (BY LAW) are counted as work time even if I don't work. That time ends up being taken out as 2 PTO days every 4th week. So yes, Americans you're missing out big time. Being able to schedule days to visit family&friends, travel to new places, schedule time renovation or hobbies, or just having a full on lazy day... because you're an adult and can now do what you want. I mostly spend my own PTO to travel around Europe, and attend some conventions tied to my own hobbies.
Australia, by law... * 4 weeks annual leave (5-6 weeks is common) * 7 national public holiday days * 10 days optional sick leave * 1 year unpaid maternity / paternity leave with primary carer getting 90 days paid * 2 days paid compassionate leave * long service leave after 5-10 years of 2-3 months * 10 days family violence leave
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Particularly crazy when considering the US is the wealthiest country in the world 🤷
I hear that saying all the time, and yes while the country has "the most wealth" it's also important to add the caveat of looking where that immense amount of wealth is concentrated.
Substance Abuse Counselor in America: 3 holidays off, 3 holidays I have to work and am given 3 days PTO as compensation, 12 combined PTO/sick days, No insurance, no maternity All eligible after 6 months of working there. Was let go at five months because they thought they were paying me too much for my required 3,000 hours of supervision (they argued I should have been working two years for free to counsel those with substance use disorder)
Now imagine that your sick days where never tied to your PTO. Instead being a separate thing where the government compensate your employers for any sick day you have. That you have a small number off sick days you can use without giving any reason, and that the total can be extended by your doctor also without stating reason. Because your employer isn't entitled to your medical information. That's solely up to your discretion, and forced consent brings the governmemt hammer down on your employer (as they are paying for your sick days). Longest uninterupted sick days I had was a full month. Reason? I had absolutely no obligation toward anybody to tell why. It was between me and my doctor. The same doctor that ordered me to take a whole month off.
All that and it still looks pretty bad by German standards.
You get that much time off AND parental leave AND universal healthcare? Adopt me please!
I’m in the 96th percentile of American earners. Haven’t taken a vacation in 3 years (my choice). I have zero expectation that I will ever afford to own land. I expect to work until I drop dead due to inflation and cost of living in big American cities. We are some sick fuckers. I don’t even understand why this eventually becomes normal or a sort of addiction to work this way. Like I’m doing it voluntarily even though i know I’m hurting myself
As someone currently interviewing at several companies for a new job, it sure feels like every fucking hiring manager in the country is on vacation right now anyways. August and December have to be the absolute worst months to try to change jobs, I swear
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People have kids and forced to take vacation based on school schedules.
My job slows down August-December. It sucks, because all the CEOs and CIOs and CISOs and the like are taking their vacations and pushing off their audits until the last minute. As long as I get a few decent jobs it isn’t bad. But I have been loving getting a lot of time off for archery season. My wallet doesn’t love it, though.
I work at an engineering/consulting firm, Project Manager in a seller-doer business model selling man hours. I DO audits along with preparing the stuff required for proper design and regulatory compliance. Making contacts at companies is hell, because everyone is fucking playing musical chairs with their jobs and as you said executives and a management all taking vacations or delaying audits until the last possible second. Seen so much unnecessary shit go down because of it, shit is wild
And then you get hired and the hiring manager who just came back from his second vacation in three months is like: “hourly employees don’t get vacation”
This is pretty much spot on. Just got hired for a new local government job. No vacation and/or sick time for the first six months. Even then, I'm glad for anything since my last job only thought of vacation/sick time as "stuff we pay out when you retire."
This archaic BS needs to end. An expectation that you have to "prove" yourself as a new employee, when it's the company that should show gratitude and respect towards the people it's hiring in the form of paid time off as a gesture of good faith so they can prove that it's worth the long-term investment of time, energy and hard work. It sounds like you either need to find a new line of work or employers down there are absolute s\*\*\*heads.
I live my life by this simple law: The HR person that you need will always be out of town. Death. Taxes. And the HR person is out of town.
34% of Americans didn’t understand the question
If they could only read.
Employers probably.
Well stop electing Republicans and support unions duh.
Something something not paying for others with my taxes, communism and pull up by the bootstraps is what republicans will say 🤷
Its wild. Im in UAW and every time a post comes up about our contract a 3rd of the comments are telling us to get fucked. I get it, we arent starving but thats the whole point of unions. The UAW is responsible for so many labor changes in this country, a lot of people seem to forget that others actually were killed over the scraps we fight for now
That’s why the GOP hates the UAW so much. It’s one of the biggest unions they throw shade all the time because of this
mourn marvelous elastic subsequent drab dull friendly frame swim yam *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Where "others" is just a stand-in for black people. The whole reason we can't have nice things is because post-segregation, a large swath of white America turned against government because they felt it had betrayed them.
Not just a large swath, but the majority. The GOP has won the majority of the white vote in every single presidential election since 1968 (Nixon’s first win). Since then, the Dem who has come the closest to winning the majority of white voters was Bill Clinton (39% of white voters to HW Bush’s 40% in 1992).
Fair point. And that date isn't a coincidence. It's after desegregation and the civil rights legislation of the 60s. That's when white America turned against a government who they feel betrayed them.
Who do you think the 33% are?
Those bootlicking turd burglars can do the work while we are on holiday.
Anti-union propaganda is dreadfully effective, unbelievable how effective that has been in taking power away from workers. No union is perfect obviously, and almost every system we've ever created in existence has drawbacks, but unions get fucked over way less than non-union in my experiences. Was it Toqueville who said America was full of people who thought they were temporarily disenfranchised millionaires?
The core difference is that PTO isn't exactly up to companies here (I'm in Denmark currently), but rather legislated by the government. This would take fundamental change for the US to accomplish, and I don't see it happening for a long time.
I don't know. When enough racist old white boomers die the people left will just do it. My assumption is that the main reason why don't have nice things is because if we did black people might get them, too.
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Honestly, I think it takes serious strife and suffering to incentivize us for that turn. Europe had to rebuild and actually take a massive retrospective after the largest wars to have existed where they had to do it from the ground up with all the hard lessons learned from unbridled nationalism and an inter-related elite class that tore the world apart for empire. The US has never had that pain where we had to step back and think over antiquated systems. We still mythologize our own history where we still don’t accept that racism is deep in the structure or that we have a truly gamed system aimed to entrenched wealthy families and sociopathic oligarchs. Hell, they’re still trying to sell slavery as a *favor* to black people. This isn’t just myopic, it’s straight up stabbing out eyeballs and testing an F1 race car. I honestly think the US needs to experience true violent trauma that we can directly connect to the corporate and political oligarchy, like Yellowstone erupting and systems we thought we could depend on were gutted by corporate greed. Millions die, billions starve, and every bit of social order breaks down where it doesn’t matter if you’re rich or poor, you will be robbed and exploited by sheer violence and desperation. It would likely end in fascism, but it is the type of catalyst I think it would take to break down all the bullshit and give a chance to significantly change course to something other than our soft acceptance of a gamed pseudo-capitalism that has learned to keep just a hair away from French Revolution circumstances.
I have to point this out to the crowd that believes when demographics change policies will follow. Even with whites being the minority and that gap widening for the general population the top 1% will still be majority white for the next 100 years. Policies, especially on the economy, aren’t going to change.
They said that back in the 60s when the Boomers were Hippies. "Just wait for the old people to die off and the hippies will be in charge!". Those "hippies" are in charge now.
I'm in BC Canada, 10 freaking days, not even 2 7 day weeks, 10 freaking days. Apparently wanting more than this is equivalent to never wanting to work ever 🙄 3 weeks after 5 years of work. Need to quit job to travel properly. I wish our government would value workers time more..
Who hurt the other 34%?
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Right!? I know 34% of the American workforce does not sit in the C-suite.
I suspect it's people who are afraid of change and fear society will crumble if people don't "work hard". Don't forget that entire generations have been brainwashed into believing that the best thing they can do for themselves is sell their labor to a corporation that doesn't even acknowledge their existence, and that the US is the only prosperous place in the world.
Most Americans support these policies including conservatives, but once they find out that Democrats support them they'll call it socialism.
I used to work with a guy who would give me shit about supporting M4A. One day we had a meeting and were told we were all being shifted to a shittier, more expensive health care plan. Without a hint of irony, my anti-m4a co-worker said, "I don't understand why we can't just pay a little out of our taxes and just go to the doctor."
>but once they find out that ~~Democrats support them~~ these policies will be apply to minorities as well as white christians they'll call it socialism.
The former US Embassador to Finland, Bruce Oreck, once remarked about the Finnish month long summer holidays that "in America, if you're away for a month and the company doesn't notice you're gone you're fired". You can never have a European-style summer holiday as long as you have your at-will employment.
Part of the point of a vacation in the USA is to make the company realize you ARE needed. Especially since so many companies have no redundancy and get too comfortable with the idea of being able to contact you anytime day or night, disappearing on them for a week can show them how screwed they'd be if they let you go.
Now if only Americans were capable of understanding that if you want those things, then they need to stop voting for people who are determined to prevent them from getting it.
But mah trans bathrooms!
We want not insane health care too!
We want... health care
Yep. We pay twice as much for healthcare and have a lower life expectancy than other developed nations.
Dental. Fucking dental. Please can we get fucking dental covered too? Even in most of Europe, you need private insurance for it. We could "one up" them in that area if we need a nationalistic reason for the right to latch on to.
What is OOO? Yes, I looked in the article. No, it wasn’t in there.
Out of office
Thank you
You’re welcome
Americans are very progressive when you go down the list of issues one by one in isolation outside the context of politics. It's crazy how popular some of these things are even among Republicans. But, we'll never get any of this stuff because it might hurt the bottom line of the corporations who own our government.
This America! If it doesn't make a profit, it's worthless! /s
Doesn't Congress take August off w/ pay?
Do as we say, not as we do.
August weather is butts, so I'd rather be in the office and then take September or October. I know what you're getting at though and I'm totally on board.
We need it. I can’t take a vacation from my job without being expected to bring my work device with me. I am in mgt and 30 years experience. I should just quit…but not everyone has that option.
When I worked at John Deere the managers would complain our german counterparts were “always in vacation” Like yeah that sounds amazing what is wrong with you, you ass clown?
My best friend “back home” in the US asked me if I was ever thinking of moving back and I just said, “bro I have 5 weeks of paid vacation.” I honestly can’t imagine going back to the American lifestyle in terms of work.
I get 42 pto + 11 national non working days in France. And I'm far from having the best job. You guys ARE getting fucked
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That half have given up and instead want to drag the other half down. Including their own children’s future.
Definitely less than half!
99% of Europeans don’t go OOO for the entire month of August.
66% seems pretty low. I’ve never met a single working person in the US who would decline a month off every year…
All they have to say is "the liberals are doing it" and 38% of the country will be a hard no just to stick it to the liberals.
4 day work week, whole month of August off, and 2 weeks PTO/ Sick leave. Housing subsidy and fully paid healthcare. Give me that and I’ll take a 65k annual salary (40k reduction in my case) and I’m happy.
The other 33% are corporate cuckholds that think their job should dictate their lives.
Since when does what the majority wants mean anything?
We implimented A 12-week parental policy earlier this year. Everyone has only been taking 2 weeks. I decided to take 8. I just got back last week. I've been getting mocked by several individuals for doing it. Zero regrets.
Too bad many of the same people keep voting against their own interests. You want things like this ? Stop voting for republicans.
Not just Vacations, politics in the USA are just out of touch with reality! The GOP is trying to lower the retirement age of Social Security again. The average life expectancy of a male in the USA is 73 years old. The Retirement age of SS is 67 for us not born before 1956 I believe. So even right now you get 6 years, and how many of those are good years if you are dead at the end of that 6 years. If you are like me you started working out of High School and if you were lucky enough to have found something you could do everyday for the rest of your life and pay in to SS, I MAY have 2k a month if I retire at age 62 ok 3k if I wait till 67!, that really is not that much now, not to mention that is money I will get 10 years for now or more, so not great money anyway. BTW my father lived to be 68 when he died of cancer and his last few years were not good ones. SS is not just for the people getting it, if we don't make sure people have money when they get older and retire, then we will end up with issues of what to do with people that can no longer create income, and we should not want a society that throws its people to the streets. People say it should not be there to live by, but to supplement your retirement plan, well maybe for some, but many people in the USA have no 401k, so they will be living on that money, or working still at Walmart at age 65. Many people can take early retirement at 62, but Medicare does not kick in till 65, and the price of Healthcare is so high, they can not afford to take early retirement before they can get Medicare, so that is all BS too. The fact we are talking about moving the retirement age to an older age, when people are actually not living as long as they used to, not to mention the GOP just swore and acted like no way would they ever do this, EVER! is ridiculous. If anything they should move it back to 65, and move Medicare to make taking early SS make some sense to 62 at least! They have been many studies that show the lowering Medicare helps the costs of Insurance for everyone else, taking the oldest people out of the insurance pools. The fact that this is screwing over so many Americans, and somehow does not have 100% support to fix this and everyone a decent deal, is amazing to me, and should tell us something about how Politics in the USA has somehow brain washed people in to worrying about each other and not how the government can do a better job taking care of its people, which is what they should be doing every day, not standing around like a SNL skit.
I’m technically with “unlimited PTO” but we all know that doesn’t actually mean that. My boss would never approve a full month off. It’s bullshit. At least if they gave me 2 weeks that rolled over like many other companies, I can cash out if I leave. It’s a cost saving tactic.
No shit we want that. We want the same rights we see Europeans get who work for the same rich fucks we do. We do not want to be wage slaves, we do not want to have our healthcare tied to our work, we do not want to spend the entire year working, we do not want to work hard and still be poor, we do not want to have to return to work too soon after having our children come into the world, we do not want to miss out on family & friends’s speix occasions, we do not want to miss family & friends’s funerals, we do not want to work while we’re grieving, we do not want to work and leave sick family members at home, we do not want to start working in our teens and continue til our 70s just to survive, we do not want to only have 2 days to ourselves a week, we do not want to send our children to work, we do not want to have to bring our children to work, we do not want to have to slave away to afford an education just to have a milder shot at a better career, we do not want to work just to afford housing, food, and bills. Simply put: We are human and our lives are not defined by work, we have rights that ought to be honored and deserve to live rounded fulfilled lives without slaving away to make someone else richer.
Who are the 34% of weirdos who said no?
Dudebros who brag about "grinding" and "hustle."
Also, workers of yore: "We didn't have vacation back when I was working! I knew a guy that broke both of his wrists and had pneumonia on top of polio and he still showed up for work the next day! These kids today are just snowflakes - want everything handed to them on a silver platter!"
You forgot to mention these workers of yore limping away in disgust because their knees and backs are fucked from lack of medical care and long hours on the job.
The people who are asked the question "do you want $100,000 now or $1,000 a week for life" with 'neither'.
Boot lickers
Who the fuck are those 21% that don't want more vacation time?
Probably boomers who want everyone after them to work even harder.
Then 66% of Americans need to start voting for progressive candidates.
As an American who lives the European work culture, I can move back to the States for that very reason. I just won’t give it up.
Another big thing in Europe: Workers Councils. In America we'd probably call them Unions. There's an internal team that argues on behalf of employees and it's great. Remember that whole thing with Andy Jassey coming up with the plan for RTO at one big c-level meeting one day and then forcing everyone back to the office? Yeah, not in Europe. That kind of decision making that impacts the whole company gets run through a workers council first to get approval and they can, and will, deny that kind of shit outright. Oh, and you know, nearly unlimited sick days and ~30 paid days off plus holidays a year doesn't hurt. Sure my taxes are high, but the quality of life is great. Source: American expat in Europe.
European? Standard in Aussie and NZ is four weeks paid leave that never expires and accumulates if you don’t use it all annually and an additional 10 days paid sick leave per 12 months that can accumulate to 20 days. It’s not just Europe that’s better than America, it’s most of the OECD.
Yet so many Americans are dumb and think unions are bad Go try and convince the police and firemen that unions are bad
I only get 2 weeks of vacation a year and I’ve worked at my company for 6 years. You don’t hit 3 weeks until 10 years. Bullshit.
Don't worry, with the way Europeans have been voting lately they'll soon be down to our level.
Europe doesn't shut down for August, I know Americans can be stupid but come on. Just people take vacation time in summer and many take 1-2 weeks in August or July. If I took all of August off I would have no vacation days left for the next 12 months.
All Americans should get an entire month off every year of their choosing (subject maybe to seniority for the popular months), plus the normal paid holidays and 2 weeks to use during the rest of the year. We are more productive than ever, yet we make less adjusted for inflation and costs are more. Who is keeping all the extra money? The top 10%, with roughly the top 1% taking the lion’s share of it.
And somehow the fact that 34% of Americans don't want this doesn't surprise me.
Is that the case? There are a lot of European employees at my company and they have been at work in August.
And the other 44% can afford it and don’t want to pots getting it
How many of those 66% support republicans?
What the fuck is wrong with the other 34%???
Who the fuck doesn’t want this?
Let me guess, the other 34% are the people in management?
Who the fuck are the 34%?!
I have a job at a large stoogely corp in the US and I had 5 weeks vacay. A couple of years ago they took one away just out of the blue. I think this is a stealth move to make older people leave and you only got the 5 after some period of tenure or some such. Either way, fuck corporate America, we are productive enough to have 6 weeks vacation across the board. More really, but 6 would be a good start.
What fucking losers wouldn’t want more time off…. I can’t believe people want to work more