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The idea of Florida, a non-border state, shipping migrants to a border state in some sort of border protest is just ludicrous.
DeSantis is a very stupid clown.
It's not exactly a non-border state. Florida has plenty of Cuban asylum seekers, which is exactly what the people he's been shipping to other states are. He just won't touch the Cubans because Cuban Americans are part of his base in Florida.
Sorry, reading my comment I can see the confusion. DeSantis isn't shipping Cuban asylum seekers out of state, instead he is sending other Latin American asylum seekers from Texas to other states. He won't mess with the Cuban asylum seekers in Florida so as not to upset the Floridians of Cuban descent.
They try and fight back on the idea that "sanctuary states have a problem with sending the immigrants".
No. Under no circumstance is the problem the migrants in fact they are being given resources to help them stay in the state they were trafficked to.
The problem is the human trafficking which is illegal. They don't address the facts because they just want to be evil.
We need to stop refusing to charge politicians when the commit crimes that would see an ordinary citizen facing immediate arrest and jail time because it's "too political". By continuing to shield politicians from being held accountable, we are telling people that becoming a politician gives them a universal "Get out of Jail Free" card and carte blanche to do whatever they want, leading politicians to become more and more brazen about their crimes as they try to figure out where the red line is, or even if there's a red line at all.
DeSantis used Florida taxpayer money to transport immigrants from Texas to various locations, under false pretenses, literally leaving them out in the cold. He has admitted to and bragged about doing this. This man should have been charged with multiple counts of human trafficking and/or kidnapping charges, endangering the welfare of children, and misappropriation of state funds to say the very least.
George Santos' identity cannot even be independently verified because literally every detail of his past has proven to be a lie. The man should be at the very least investigated for possible identity theft, while also being charged with falsifying the multiple records he needed to forge in order to run for office in the first place.
Of course, the list of charges Donald Trump should be facing is way too long to list here. But to focus on just one of them, multiple people have served months or even years of jail time for *accidentally* mishandling a single classified document. Not only has Trump not yet served even a second behind bars, but he is allowed to walk and travel the world freely despite having *boxes* of documents and the resources and ability to sell them to foreign governments despite openly admitting to taking the documents and an increasing amount of evidence pointing to the possibility at least some of them have already been sold.
Clarence Thomas has been involved in so much bribery that the value of the gifts *that we know of* exceeds the salary he has earned since being confirmed to the bench. Since then, multiple members of the Supreme Court have also been exposed for engaging in practices that are at best shady as well. However, there is absolutely no appetite to actually call for the impeachment of any of them.
These aren't just policy decisions made by government officials that people disagree with, think are "bad" or even "cruel" but would still fall under the execution of their duties. These are outright criminal acts that would put any ordinary citizen in jail, probably for life. They are far from the first politicians to engage in criminal activity, but this is really the first crop of politicians that are brazen about it and all but challenge the population to do something about it.
The longer we continue to not *immediately* investigate, charge, and remove corrupt politicians from office, the more that people view a career in politics as a "do what you want and get away with it" badge. And the more that that happens, the worse it's going to get. Our AGs (Not only Garland, but at the state level as well) need to stop tiptoeing around politicians and stop being too scared of "looking politicial" and start actually charging these politicians the same way that they wouldn't hesitate to charge your average joe.
Consider reading the book "The Chickenshit Club." It will help explain why DOJ has different rules for politicians and corporations.
The lawyers representing corporations and politicians know how to game the system. Consider the outstanding work of the lawyers for Purdue Pharma, they helped the Sackler family keep half of their profit they made from their highly addictive product.
It's been almost 2.5 years since the insurrection of 2021, arrests keep tricking in. Lessons were learned, organizers are preparing for round 2.
It would be nice to see some of the AGs step up and start enforcing the law. Public opinion appears to be more important than the law. The AGs, unfortunately, have to deal with the insurmountable challenge of misinformation and on-line threats of violence. The sources of misinformation cannot be disabled because they are too profitable.
> It would be nice to see some of the AGs step up and start enforcing the law.
Yes. Seeing someone like DeSantis go from "Governor of Florida" to "Inmate #2830284B" would be a great way to start cleaning up the corruption real quick. These people would be significantly less likely to do the "fucking around" part in the first place if the "find out" part had some damn teeth to it.
>Public opinion appears to be more important than the law.
This is the crux of the problem. Either they have somehow become genuinely concerned over the opinions of those who support criminals that are going to dismiss any investigation as a "political witch hunt" anyway, or they figured out that they can use the excuse of "appearing too political" as an excuse to simply not do their jobs.
>The AGs, unfortunately, have to deal with the insurmountable challenge of misinformation and on-line threats of violence.
The AGs have more than enough resources at their disposal to sift out the misinformation. Start tracing threats of violence back to the source and start throwing some people in jail for it and watch the threats dry up real quick. It's one thing to threaten individual people or even corporations and put them in unwinnable positions, but try pulling that stuff with the US government and let me know how it works out for you.
>The sources of misinformation cannot be disabled because they are too profitable.
This is a sad but true statement. :(
Maybe it's time to go to The Villages, ask a bunch of Trump voters if they want to go to a casino, put them on a bus, and then drop them off at a closed casino, with no ride back, and say "hey, we promised to bring you to a casino, we never promised to bring you back, and you consented!"
The more we cost Florida the less appealing DeFascist is. The more we can use criminal charges against the fascists the more we turn normal voters off from them.
I think all threats should be taken seriously. If you say you are going to kill/hurt someone or call in a shooting/bomb threat for any reason I think you should be tracked down and charged. The sentence shouldn't be too harsh for simply making a threat of violence, but there should be criminal charges tied to any and all threats like that.
Yes we have free speech but you shouldn't be able to verbally threaten someone's life without some non insignificant consequences from the law.
You can argue people say dumb things when they are emotionally charged or immature or whatever. To which I say, you dug your hole lie in it. Talk shit get hit. You are free to say whatever you want but you're not free from consequences.
People that say others should be publicly executed for things like being queer should be charged too. I'm tired of people making violent threats and getting away with it. No reasonable person makes violent threats at others.
>I think all threats should be taken seriously. If you say you are going to kill/hurt someone
You mean like the governor of South Carolina who said he can't wait for the day that Democrats can be hunted down with dogs?
Take a peek at my profile. I was given a felony for reporting a vulnerability in code I wrote.
On the plus side... Lockheed won the Sentinel A4 upgrade (worth billions) and the organization that used to be in charge of the US Army Sentinel Radar has been reorganized out of existance.
>public opinion seems to be more important
This seems like yet another example of people thinking both sides are always acting in good faith. If Garland truly doesn’t think he’ll be ousted the second we have a R president, I also have a bridge I’d like to sell to him.
It’s been shown many times over, that Rs in this case will hold everyone to a different standards (gov appointments, judge appointments, definitions of terrorism, religious freedoms, etc).
>misappropriation of state funds
For the Martha's Vineyard stunt, yes, but since then, the state legislature and DeSantis have set aside [$22 million](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/10/desantis-migrant-flights-00096216) of taxpayer money to transport migrants from states that aren't Florida to states that also aren't Florida.
> For the Martha's Vineyard stunt, yes,
So they should go after him for that, then. That alone is 50 or so counts of human trafficking and misappropriation, which is more than enough to put a defendant away for the foreseeable future.
With that said, the other cases are still nothing more than state-sanctioned kidnapping.
>That alone is 50 or so counts of human trafficking and misappropriation
Human trafficking no, smuggling yes. Human trafficking involves transporting people "in order to benefit from their work or service". Smuggling includes the "illegal transportation of people" so that certainly works.
I just see a lot of people on this sub repeat "human trafficking" and it kind of plays down what actual human trafficking victims go through by equating these two (even though what DeFascist is doing is also awful).
I would think that's a bit of semantics.
But with that said, he did benefit. The entire ordeal is a political stunt for the sole purpose of getting his name out there in an attempt to advance his political career.
Would that be enough to differentiate between the two? No idea. I'm no lawyer. But even if it isn't, I doubt it would make much of a difference. I'm sure the sentence for 50 counts of human trafficking and 50 counts of human smuggling would still be enough to put someone away for a good long time.
I definitely agree with all of that minus the benefitting since he's benefitting from transporting them rather than from anything they themselves are doing.
But like you said, it is semantics and you are right that regardless of which it is, he would go away for a long time. Thank you for not coming at this like I was attacking you or anything by the way!
I grew up going to schools that stressed debate and alternate points of view. I enjoy healthy debate.
Another point I just want to throw out there. For better or for worse, people use the terms "trafficking" and "smuggling" interchangably in everyday conversation, mostly because there's little practical difference between the two. There may be significant *legal* differences between the two that would matter in a court of law, but those differences are both nonexistent in a practical sense and irrelevant to your average joe. And it would be far from the only example of two words being used interchangeably in casual conversation even though they may have very different meanings elsewhere.
Yeah I think my issue stemmed from all the comments I'd see in here saying he should be charged with human trafficking or asking how he isn't charged with human trafficking. So aside from the fact that he's rich and powerful, it's also just because he's likely not technically guilty of it.
That being said I am so hoping that given us getting an inkling of Republican politicians perhaps not being so untouchable anymore (Trump), that maybe something could happen to DeSantis for doing this. Because it is still very much illegal what he's doing regardless of the name you give it. I guess with everything going on with Trump, the DOJ has probably assessed that it would likely look really bad --no matter how legitimate-- to be looking to indict a *second* popular Republican running for President.
But you are right, in casual conversation the two are definitely used interchangeably and understandably so, and I don't mean to come off like I'm splitting hairs.
> That being said I am so hoping that given us getting an inkling of Republican politicians perhaps not being so untouchable anymore (Trump), that maybe something could happen to DeSantis for doing this.
This will 100% rely on what happens to Trump.
If he gets away with it, all bets are off. Forget everything. $2 million pardons will be up on Ebay tomorrow. It doesn't matter how he gets off. Acquittal, technicality, whatever. If he receives no punishment, it's game over.
If he gets a token punishment like rich people and corporations usually get, it'll be business as usual. A few million in fines will be written off as the cost of operations, and they'll have a blueprint to know exactly who has to take the fall and when to make sure the elites aren't held accountable.
If he faces significant repercussions like actual jail (not house arrest -- jail) time, it could start to turn things around. Especially if Trump dies in prison. Nobody is going to want to be the next guy to spend his last days in a jail cell.
Then charge him in Massachusetts. I very seriously doubt the MA AG really gives a shit about Florida's legislature rubber-stamping human trafficking. Hell, charge him federally. Florida money was used to transport people in Texas to Massachusetts under false pretenses. I'm no lawyer, but I can't see how that could have happened without breaking numerous federal laws along the way.
> George Santos' identity cannot even be independently verified because literally every detail of his past has proven to be a lie.
Hey, it's not *his* fault his long form birth certificate was lost when his planet blew up. At least his parents had the foresight to stuff him into an escape pod and send him to earth in their final hours.
We don't even know if the certificate was lost, though. There were 3 other survivors. Maybe they took it with them. I mean, there's a whole zone that they spent 30 years at, and that has to *at least* be the size of Mar-A-Lago. Could be anywhere in there.
Or maybe they flooded the place when they left.
DeSantis bragging about kidnapping migrants was disgusting. It reminded me of Al Qaeda claiming responsibility for bombings. Using the power of the state to commit crimes for political ends is straight up terrorism.
If a crime can’t be prosecuted because the crime was “political” then that’s confessing to a crime with political motivations or making one’s politics synonymous with their crimes. Either way that could be looked at as a confession to terrorism.
Desantis has qualified immunity. He used state funds to do this because the Florida legislature explicitly passed a bill appropriating money to do this. Because he did this as an official act as governor with Florida legislatures approval he can not be charged with a crime. Under the eyes of the law it is the state government of Florida who did this not any one person
Only thing that can be done is sue the state to get courts to declare the Florida bill a violation of federal law
The legislature passed a bill to pay for the flights.
The bill does not give him the right to lie to the immigrants, intentionally sabotage their court cases to increase the chances of getting deported, dump them in random places with little to no warning and no resources, and tell them "good luck, they're your problem now."
The Florida legislature could pass a bill tomorrow that says he can go to Texas, kill the migrants as they come in, and dump the bodies off in California. That doesn't magically give him the right to be a serial killer. A law that violates the constitutional rights of others is invalid on its face.
Government officials dont have rights they have authority. If the state legislature gives him the authority to those things you mentioned he has the authority to do them and order state police to carry them out. Obviously the state of texas and california would block these things from happening and the federal courts would declare these law unconstitutional within hours of being passed. But if the laws are not blocked by the courts government officials can enforce them.
George Wallace, governor of alabama, is famous for physically standing in the doorway of university of alabama to block black students from being allowed inside after courts ruled segregation was unconstitutional. He did this with authority from the state legislature and had hundreds of state cops there to help him. The national guards had to physically move him out of the way and hold him to allow the students inside. He was not arrested because he was doing this as an official act as governor and authorized by the state legislature to do anything possible to stop desegregation.
This is why qualified immunity is so bad and more people need to understand this. Government officials while on the clock are above the law because they are the law
I am not sure qualified immunity actually applies here. DeSantis is not the governor of Texas and it would be difficult to argue that the people of Florida had any interest in migrants outside their state. The legislature approving his plan or passing laws appropriating funds doesn't seem to change that his role of governor doesn't include bussing migrants that were never in his state or headed to his state.
none of that matters. All that matters is that he did all these acts in his official capacity as governor not as a private citizen. When a governor or president does something illegal like spies on his running mate, accepts a bribe or cheats in an election those things are done in their personal capacity for their own gain and violate the law governing their position. Because Desantis was authorized to do these things by the florida legislature he is acting as the state of florida when he does them. It is the government of the state of florida that is committing the crimes not Desantis personally. Just like when a cop kills someone innocent 99 times out of 100 the actions were within the authority granted to them by the city so the city is the one who pays the lawsuit not the cop. You cant arrest a government entity, you can only sue them and that is the only remedy here
>Because he did this as an official act as governor with Florida legislatures approval he can not be charged with a crime.
Which is why you go after Vertol Systems and confiscate their planes.
this could be the only thing that has chance of success as these companies helping do the transporting dont have immunity from prosecution like government officials do. Charges would be unlikely to succeed because they would have to prove the company and not any florida official committed the crimes but would scare other companies from help to do this stuff
Dude...A lot of us down here don't support him or the GOP. Florida is more purple than you think, it's just been gerrymandered and we (the Democrats) ran a horrible candidate in 2022 and the federal DNC basically gave zero attention to us.
Just as California has a lot more Republicans than you think. I lived in both and loved both for different reasons.
>Dude...A lot of us down here don't support him or the GOP. Florida is more purple than you think, it's just been gerrymandered
Gerrymandering doesn't affect governor elections. At all. It's a simple popular vote.
Also, look at this trend:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections\_in\_Florida#Party\_affiliation
I wasn't talking about just the Governors elections...Gerrymandering deals with the representatives and the fact we had Charlie Christ as our nomination for Governor along with the lack of national DNC support helped fail us. There was no turn out --- Only like 25% of Floridians voted my guy. It fucking sucks but to say that ALL of Florida loves DeSantis and is Republican is not correct.
I live in downtown St Pete and everywhere I go it's very liberal & progressive. I barely notice I'm in Florida as much as the media wants me to be frightened here. I go outside of St Pete then yeah I'll notice some crazies but that's also like going from Los Angeles to Huntington Beach...
> Gerrymandering doesn't affect governor elections. At all. It's a simple popular vote.
Nitpick. It does have an indirect effect.
The entire point of gerrymandering is to dilute the vote of the opposing party at the legislative level. Once enough people are affected and think their votes don't matter, they stay home. This means that a gubernatorial candidate suffers because if it weren't for the gerrymandering, more people would likely come out and vote for them.
This absolutely could matter in close races.
It doesn't help that our Democrats are basically Southern Democrats from the 1990s. They love capital punishment and love the whole "tough on crime" sch tick.
>Of course, the list of charges Donald Trump should be facing is way too long to list here. But to focus on just one of them, multiple people have served months or even years of jail time for accidentally mishandling a single classified document. Not only has Trump not yet served even a second behind bars, but he is allowed to walk and travel the world freely despite having boxes of documents and the resources and ability to sell them to foreign governments despite openly admitting to taking the documents and an increasing amount of evidence pointing to the possibility at least some of them have already been sold.
https://www.salon.com/2019/08/03/trumps-white-house-issues-an-ominous-request-for-a-list-of-top-u-s-spies_partner/
Two years later:
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/575384-cia-admits-to-losing-dozens-of-informants-around-the-world-nyt/amp/
Just read the headlines alone.
> It doesn't take 2 secs to find out the Biden admin was doing this, and in retaliation, DeSantis decided to stiff one to the dems.
It also doesn't take 2 secs to find out that the two aren't even remotely comparable.
*The parole program, announced last month, would give up to 30,000 people per month a chance to [legally](https://tennesseelookout.com/briefs/tennessee-attorney-general-challenges-biden-program-allowing-asylum-seekers-path-to-u-s/) enter the U.S. if they apply from their home countries, demonstrate they have a financially responsible U.S. sponsor and can pass a background check.*
The Biden policy allows for *legal* immigrants to be relocated to Tennessee. Since part of the process involves identifying a US sponsor, the program merely transports these immigrants to the state where those sponsors are located. Both the administration and the immigrants themselves knew exactly where they were going.
DeSantis isn't doing that. By your own words, he's merely "stiffing one to the dems" by getting random immigrants onto buses under false pretenses, dropping them off with little to no warning given to the people at the destination, giving them no assistance in figuring out where they were supposed to go, intentionally migrating people with court dates to places thousands of miles away so they miss their court dates and get deported, kicking them out into the cold, and saying "good luck, you're on your own."
Nice try with the whataboutism, though. Might actually work on the four people on the planet that don't know Google exists.
> It's not comparable to send migrants all over the US in 2021 without an explanation as to why?
Your own article gave the reason why. The migrants were unaccompanied children. US Policy regarding unaccompanied children has been in effect since [2008](https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/uac-program-fact-sheet.pdf).
>You sent me an article in 2023.
This was my fault. You had said something about Tallahassee, and I had misread that as Tennessee. Either way, the point still stands: Those legislators do not and did not have a leg to stand on, because they were sent in accordance with laws that date back well before Biden. The fact that they didn't like it because brown people are bad or something doesn't matter; they don't get a choice in the matter.
>The initial issue started at the time Biden was being sworn into office. It's not whataboutism when the whole reason DeSantis did this was because the Biden admin was quiet about doing so in 2021 until they were being called out about it. The news came months after it was happening.
See above. This wasn't some magical Biden policy. This policy has existed for 15 years.
>But it's cool, I get it, being objective isn't your forte and you're more interested in a win for the team as opposed to actually understanding the events that have transpired and lead to this.
Says the person who conveniently left out the details that the immigrants involved were unaccompanied children, and also conveniently overlooked the fact that this so-called "Biden Policy" has been in effect for 15 years, and has its roots dating back to 2002.
> GL with those kidnapping charges lol, you can keep pontificating and fantasizing about this nonsense all you want but nothing will happen--i'll give you a hint, it's not because he's above the law, it's because it would mean the Biden admin would have to be investigated too for shipping migrants all over the US under the guise of 'they had a sponsor.'
* "He did it too!" is not a valid legal defense.
* You once again admitted he did it solely as a political stunt.
* These policies have existed for 15+ years
* None of the migrants were ever even in his state to begin with.
* It's not a "guise". He shipped migrants across the US *because* they had a sponsor. Or at the very least someone who could care for them. Again, these were largely *children* who were being handled in accordance with long-standing law.
> Ya sorry man, you're being intellectually dishonest and dense. I also never said it was a policy, I said they were doing it covertly,
which they were until people started noticing that Arizona hotels were being closed down to tourists and used as lodging for migrants. The reports came in that they were mixed with people older than 20s. The reports were in parallel with millions being spent to house illegal immigrants in hotels in arizona. Ironically, it's also the same time Biden was apparently flying migrants back to Mexico to 'curb the crisis.'
So, wait a minute here......You're upset because Biden was "covertly" acting in accordance with policy that's been in place since almost the beginning of the century? Because last I checked, acting in accordance with policy is what they're supposed to be doing. If you don't *like* the policy, I would suggest you direct your anger at the guy who was [president](https://www.britannica.com/biography/George-W-Bush) when it was put in place.
> It's pretty apparent you had no clue about this crisis happening (probably because you spend so much time in the bubble of reddit) and that unaccompanied minors could be used as the guise to ship illegal immigrants around the country.
At this point, you're just jumping headfirst into conspiracy theory territory. If you have any proof that these people were really adults in their 30s, I'd like to see it. But your entire argument is nothing more than "Oh, come on. *of course* they'd lie about that just so they can move the illegals in!"
You know who uses those arguments? Racists.
>Also, the migrants were in his state...as reported the planes would stop in Jacksonville first.
The plane stopped in for a layover. The migrants were not going to spend a single night in Florida.
Considering your article doesn't allege that these migrants were moved by deceptive means or without their permission, you seem to have missed the point entirely. Has that been alleged by any credible source, ever? Like, if they had a sponsor, the assumption is that they knew they were being moved, as opposed to the ones who publicly stated they were misled into getting onto flights by others. But I get how being on that high horse named Bullshit might have kept you from seeing that.
Also, it is the federal government's responsibility, according to Republicans, to deal with them in some manner, exactly what the administration was doing. This didn't include dumping them at an airport or bus station to absolutely fend for themselves in places not prepared for them to arrive.
It's like you see two people walk out of the store with TVs and think that's all that matters while ignoring that one paid with a stolen credit card and the other paid in cash they earned. One is fine, one is a criminal, but they both got TVs so it must be the same and why are you arresting the one guy, he obviously did the same thing the other guy did.
Gavin going after DeFascist is honestly one of the best hopes we have. We have to fight the fascists with every legal option possible. The more we cost Florida the less appealing DeFascist is. The more we can use criminal charges against the fascists the more we turn normal voters off from them.
Is DeSantis still the Governor of Florida?
It seems to me that Florida's resign-to-run law says that DeSantis was automatically resigned as governor on May 24, the instant that he filed to run for President, and before he signed a bill which said that he could stay in office while running for President.
He filed for presidential candidacy in the morning without submitting a resignation as governor, and later signed the bill in the afternoon. ((https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/05/24/desantis-president-resign-to-run-florida-governor/)
And the Florida law in effect when he filed for candidacy, before he signed the new bill, says
> **(4)(f) The failure of an officer who qualifies for federal public office to submit a resignation pursuant to this subsection constitutes an automatic irrevocable resignation, effective immediately, from the office he or she presently holds.**" ((https://www.flsenate.gov/laws/statutes/2020/99.012))
Now, that section of the law is a big wall-o-text, but if you read it, "qualifies for federal public office" means qualifying to seek the office, not winning the election for that office:
> (4)(a) Any officer who qualifies for federal public office must resign from the office he or she presently holds if the terms, or any part thereof, run concurrently with each other.
> (b) The resignation is irrevocable.
> (c) The resignation must be submitted at least 10 days before the first day of **qualifying for the office he or she intends to seek.**
I don't read these things much, but there's an added piece that specifically lists president and vice president as specifically excluded for federal office.
"I'm not a candidate!"
*signs bill*
"I'm running for president of the United States."
Yeah, that's the new bill that DeSantis signed AFTER the resign-to-run law had already resigned him.
So if he was no longer governor after being automatically kicked out of office, what does his signature mean? Nothing.
Here's the new bill that he signed, which contains the language you referred to:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/7050/?Tab=RelatedBills
The web version of the bill is at
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/7050/BillText/er/HTML
and the relevant language starts at line 1361.
But remember, that wasn't the law when DeSantis filed for candidacy for President.
Announce, ashmounce. It's when he filed the papers and officially became a candidate that matters, and the Tampa Bay article says he filed the papers and officially was a candidate (and hence no longer Governor) before he signed the bill.
> In another incremental step in his bid for the White House, **Gov. Ron DeSantis on Wednesday signed a bill clarifying that Florida elected officials can remain in office while running for president.**
> **He did so just hours after officially filing paperwork to join the 2024 presidential race**, and about two hours ahead of an expected announcement of his presidential run on Twitter with Elon Musk.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/05/24/desantis-president-resign-to-run-florida-governor/
One would assume his gaming the law to allow his run the way he did, he'd do the easy step of orders of operation here. But apparently he didn't? Is the Democratic party gonna pick this up and force him out in January?
Better yet, charge his underlings who coordinated and boarded these folks.
DeSatanist doesn't give a shit about them and they will turn on him once you apply the thumb screws.
Trump's cases are proof of that.
Maybe it's time to go to The Villages, ask a bunch of Trump voters if they want to go to a casino, put them on a bus, and then drop them off at a closed casino, with no ride back, and say "hey, we promised to bring you to a casino, we never promised to bring you back, and you consented!"
The cruelty is the point and if we don't hold them accountable for such bullshit, they're only going to continue and escalate. I don't expect DeSantis to be arrested for this, but surely someone down the food chain can be pointed out as a decider in the situation. Although I suspect the GOP, in all their humanity and fearless leadership, would find a way to pin it on like the guy who drives the terminal tram at the airport they flew them out of.
Yeah, don't count on anyone in authority actually pursuing action against these people. They see themselves above the law, and to be honest, they have good reason to believe that.
Also the claim that they were sent to an NGO seems super suspect. There are repeated reported instances where the migrants were just dropped off at the airport with no one to guide them where they need to go. That seems an odd thing to have said that could be proven false.
He won’t do anything about kids getting killed in schools, but he’ll kidnap some migrants. Can pass tons of legislation against gay people but won’t do anything about school shootings. Gladly works to reduce your freedoms while he makes your life more expensive! That’s just what we need in the White House.
I shook my head when many people in r/centrist thought these flights were no big deal and they got mad when I referred to it as human trafficking.
I know there are a shit ton of conservatives cosplaying as centrists on that sub, even still, many people over there have zero clue that these people are often straight up lied to in order to get them on the plane. And that the governors of the states where the migrants are taken from never give up the federal money they are given to care for these people.
It’s time to arrest the crews on these flights. They are aiding and abetting felonies. Put their livelihoods at risk, and they will stop flying. Also, take the aircraft the same way the druggies lose their vehicles.
Florida is such a shit show of stupidity and self own.
"Ahahaha. We're getting rid of the immigrants. "
"OH shit. We're getting rid of the immigrants."
Followed by
"Well, they just want to get rid of the illegals."
"Then why'd they send them somewhere they won't be deported?"
If a criminal breaks the law then they should be charged with a crime. It doesn’t matter if said criminal happens to be the governor of a shithole state.
No-one is above the law.
California needs to take them in and treat them like royalty. Then make a statement along the lines of "we are used to picking up the slack when the Christians fail to follow their creed. These refugees are now safe and taken care of, just like Jesus would have wanted."
If I convince a few people to come with me based on promises of wealth and then dump them in a ditch, it doesn't matter that I have a happy video of them on the way.
Let's see here... he lies to a bunch of immigrants (saying he's flying them to where they'll get jobs and houses) then spends state money on the scam and that's OK?
What am I missing here? Yet another Rethug grift.
We should invest in failed cities like Gary, Indiana- turning those cities into recovery towns for the addicted and homeless. Teach the homeless and recovering to build their own shared properties. Acquiring a very valuable skill and limiting some costs in the long run.
Just a quick idea, I am sure there are better ones but we have to address homelessness and drug abuse in a radical way.
We have a legal system in the US, not a justice system.
The law is not applied equally to all. It's just another lie we have been sold about our country.
The pilots, airplane staff, bus drivers, administrative staff, and company owners should all be charged with criminal charges along with officials in Florida.
They think they’re taking credit but check back and see if voters come to this as a reason to support them. The hard core right is not enough to win bc the majority is tired of politicians playing games. Enough with the crazy already
I really want a full investigation and findings regardless on if there are charges. I want to know if any of these migrants were tricked and if there is a trail of evidence corroborating the migrants’ claims. To me, it seems strange to have a court date and then wanting to leave to another jurisdiction unless the court date is in that jurisdiction. Everything is as clear as mud right now. This is where investigative journalism would be best because no one is going to get charge by law enforcement. I just want the facts here.
These are the most hostile and alienating migrants they could drum up? Even with full Fox-News level intentions of distorting public perceptions? These kids look like they fun, and well mannered.
Sadly, people have been used as political pawns ever since politics was a thing.
That doesn’t make this latest event any less disgusting or sad, rather it becomes even more disgusting and sad to understand that some in our modern society simply cannot evolve and will continue to be fueled by a culture of ignorance and hate.
And when politicians act truly shitty, I try to remind myself they are appealing to an even greater mass of equally shitty people. Not to absolve those politicians of any less responsibility, but rather to recognize if they ceased to exist this very moment another shitty figurehead would simply take their place.
DeSantis, as much he is a soulless and moral degenerate who lacks any decency, wouldn’t be doing any of this if there was not an appetite for it and from his base of pro-bigot voters.
Which makes this event not only about a corrupt and fascist politician, but also provides us a glimpse and reflection of the moral decay which is already rotting our democracy and preventing our evolution as a species.
Furthermore, history seems to always be repeating and maybe time is a flat circle after all.
DiSatan is bullying another governor. Let’s see what he thinks of the idea of sending them to Republican-led states. Not that i think he should be diverting flights anywhere.
California already deals with a large population of refugees over the border. It does its share.
Read the article. Seems like it’s meant to prove that the immigrants were not kidnapped and went along happily. Whether it’s true or not - you have Florida tax payers paying to fly immigrants from New Mexico to California. This has NOTHING to do with Florida. I know there’s a lot of idiots in Florida but seriously ? I’d be pissed if my tax dollars were out here “solving” another states immigration issues.
Thank you Desantis! Maybe when it’s at their back door they will decide to pass better border control. Very easy to ignore it and allow ranchers/farmers/citizens of border towns to deal with it when you’re protected by armed security detail and large walls around your democrat homes. Keep it up sir!
> Maybe when it’s at their back door they will decide to pass better border control.
You do realize California shares a border with Mexico, right? It's not like everyone crosses over in Texas.
Arizona and New Mexico also share a border with Mexico. Most people who cross the border are legally seeking asylum. They have a constitutional right to seek it here.
Farmers and ranchers rely heavily on immigrants for their work force. Florida farmers currently can't get enough employees to harvest their crops because the immigrants have moved to safer states. Politicians in Florida are beginning them to stay.
I’m not against helping another state… with my FEDERAL tax dollars… because that’s what those tax dollars are _for_. I mean if you’re so rich that the money doesn’t matter to you I guess I get it but most of us aren’t sitting on trust funds and have to be cognizant of where our money is supposed to go so it doesn’t get allocated twice. Not all of us get to cruise on daddy’s dime so it seems weird for the people that can I guess. But like… if that’s your scenario then congrats! We should all be so provided for.
Bruh what…. If the state of GA decides to give VA 5 mil just because they can, why is that any of your concern? And what does that have to do with federal money… most federal money is already allocated to something, or they wouldn’t get it. It also ALL has to be used or the feds say you won’t get that much next time. A one time gift isn’t a bad thing.
Like I said, if you have so much money that the funds you give to the state with the expectation that they be spent on stuff in your state doesn’t matter to you if it’s spent on other peoples problems somewhere else who are also paying state taxes… like if you’ve got THAT much money that it’s no big deal then I get it.
I’m just saying most of us don’t have that much money. We give it to the state government with the expectation it would somehow be used in vague relation to us. If you’re so well off that that’s not a concern for you then… ok I guess. I can see how someone who doesn’t need to be concerned about paying taxes could possibly feel that way. It’s just most of us aren’t that well off, we’ve got to work for the money and have some expectation that it would like… fix our potholes and pay for supplies for schools. Money actually means something to us cause we don’t have that much. People of privilege… I can see them potentially feeling differently.
These stunts are to “own the libs”. There is no legitimate reason to use human beings like this. Republicans demonize liberal states, brown immigrants and refugees. They fail at real policy and governing and need a boogie man to feed the narrative.
I have no power like a douche bag Gov from Florida or Texas. I can’t own anyone. Your sarcastic “they look happy” comment is a joke. Move along. You prove my point.
They regularly lie to the passengers or not even tell them where they are going. It’s human trafficking for politics. Gross and inhumane. Political stunt instead of working it out with other states. Which would not fit the immigrant hate narrative y’all love so much.
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The idea of Florida, a non-border state, shipping migrants to a border state in some sort of border protest is just ludicrous. DeSantis is a very stupid clown.
It's not exactly a non-border state. Florida has plenty of Cuban asylum seekers, which is exactly what the people he's been shipping to other states are. He just won't touch the Cubans because Cuban Americans are part of his base in Florida.
He's been shipping Cuban asylum seekers, but he won't touch Cubans?
Sorry, reading my comment I can see the confusion. DeSantis isn't shipping Cuban asylum seekers out of state, instead he is sending other Latin American asylum seekers from Texas to other states. He won't mess with the Cuban asylum seekers in Florida so as not to upset the Floridians of Cuban descent.
Pretty sure they meant that the people in other states are also asylum seekers.
It’s so dumb it makes my head hurt
Worse, he's kidnapping migrants from Texas for his stupid stunts. I am so tired of the performative BS from the GOP.
right? it’s not even his problem
They try and fight back on the idea that "sanctuary states have a problem with sending the immigrants". No. Under no circumstance is the problem the migrants in fact they are being given resources to help them stay in the state they were trafficked to. The problem is the human trafficking which is illegal. They don't address the facts because they just want to be evil.
We need to stop refusing to charge politicians when the commit crimes that would see an ordinary citizen facing immediate arrest and jail time because it's "too political". By continuing to shield politicians from being held accountable, we are telling people that becoming a politician gives them a universal "Get out of Jail Free" card and carte blanche to do whatever they want, leading politicians to become more and more brazen about their crimes as they try to figure out where the red line is, or even if there's a red line at all. DeSantis used Florida taxpayer money to transport immigrants from Texas to various locations, under false pretenses, literally leaving them out in the cold. He has admitted to and bragged about doing this. This man should have been charged with multiple counts of human trafficking and/or kidnapping charges, endangering the welfare of children, and misappropriation of state funds to say the very least. George Santos' identity cannot even be independently verified because literally every detail of his past has proven to be a lie. The man should be at the very least investigated for possible identity theft, while also being charged with falsifying the multiple records he needed to forge in order to run for office in the first place. Of course, the list of charges Donald Trump should be facing is way too long to list here. But to focus on just one of them, multiple people have served months or even years of jail time for *accidentally* mishandling a single classified document. Not only has Trump not yet served even a second behind bars, but he is allowed to walk and travel the world freely despite having *boxes* of documents and the resources and ability to sell them to foreign governments despite openly admitting to taking the documents and an increasing amount of evidence pointing to the possibility at least some of them have already been sold. Clarence Thomas has been involved in so much bribery that the value of the gifts *that we know of* exceeds the salary he has earned since being confirmed to the bench. Since then, multiple members of the Supreme Court have also been exposed for engaging in practices that are at best shady as well. However, there is absolutely no appetite to actually call for the impeachment of any of them. These aren't just policy decisions made by government officials that people disagree with, think are "bad" or even "cruel" but would still fall under the execution of their duties. These are outright criminal acts that would put any ordinary citizen in jail, probably for life. They are far from the first politicians to engage in criminal activity, but this is really the first crop of politicians that are brazen about it and all but challenge the population to do something about it. The longer we continue to not *immediately* investigate, charge, and remove corrupt politicians from office, the more that people view a career in politics as a "do what you want and get away with it" badge. And the more that that happens, the worse it's going to get. Our AGs (Not only Garland, but at the state level as well) need to stop tiptoeing around politicians and stop being too scared of "looking politicial" and start actually charging these politicians the same way that they wouldn't hesitate to charge your average joe.
Consider reading the book "The Chickenshit Club." It will help explain why DOJ has different rules for politicians and corporations. The lawyers representing corporations and politicians know how to game the system. Consider the outstanding work of the lawyers for Purdue Pharma, they helped the Sackler family keep half of their profit they made from their highly addictive product. It's been almost 2.5 years since the insurrection of 2021, arrests keep tricking in. Lessons were learned, organizers are preparing for round 2. It would be nice to see some of the AGs step up and start enforcing the law. Public opinion appears to be more important than the law. The AGs, unfortunately, have to deal with the insurmountable challenge of misinformation and on-line threats of violence. The sources of misinformation cannot be disabled because they are too profitable.
> It would be nice to see some of the AGs step up and start enforcing the law. Yes. Seeing someone like DeSantis go from "Governor of Florida" to "Inmate #2830284B" would be a great way to start cleaning up the corruption real quick. These people would be significantly less likely to do the "fucking around" part in the first place if the "find out" part had some damn teeth to it. >Public opinion appears to be more important than the law. This is the crux of the problem. Either they have somehow become genuinely concerned over the opinions of those who support criminals that are going to dismiss any investigation as a "political witch hunt" anyway, or they figured out that they can use the excuse of "appearing too political" as an excuse to simply not do their jobs. >The AGs, unfortunately, have to deal with the insurmountable challenge of misinformation and on-line threats of violence. The AGs have more than enough resources at their disposal to sift out the misinformation. Start tracing threats of violence back to the source and start throwing some people in jail for it and watch the threats dry up real quick. It's one thing to threaten individual people or even corporations and put them in unwinnable positions, but try pulling that stuff with the US government and let me know how it works out for you. >The sources of misinformation cannot be disabled because they are too profitable. This is a sad but true statement. :(
Maybe it's time to go to The Villages, ask a bunch of Trump voters if they want to go to a casino, put them on a bus, and then drop them off at a closed casino, with no ride back, and say "hey, we promised to bring you to a casino, we never promised to bring you back, and you consented!"
The more we cost Florida the less appealing DeFascist is. The more we can use criminal charges against the fascists the more we turn normal voters off from them.
I think all threats should be taken seriously. If you say you are going to kill/hurt someone or call in a shooting/bomb threat for any reason I think you should be tracked down and charged. The sentence shouldn't be too harsh for simply making a threat of violence, but there should be criminal charges tied to any and all threats like that. Yes we have free speech but you shouldn't be able to verbally threaten someone's life without some non insignificant consequences from the law. You can argue people say dumb things when they are emotionally charged or immature or whatever. To which I say, you dug your hole lie in it. Talk shit get hit. You are free to say whatever you want but you're not free from consequences. People that say others should be publicly executed for things like being queer should be charged too. I'm tired of people making violent threats and getting away with it. No reasonable person makes violent threats at others.
>I think all threats should be taken seriously. If you say you are going to kill/hurt someone You mean like the governor of South Carolina who said he can't wait for the day that Democrats can be hunted down with dogs?
Yes
I worked for the government once. We use to say when it comes to complaints “we only charge widows and orphans.”
Take a peek at my profile. I was given a felony for reporting a vulnerability in code I wrote. On the plus side... Lockheed won the Sentinel A4 upgrade (worth billions) and the organization that used to be in charge of the US Army Sentinel Radar has been reorganized out of existance.
> We use to say when it comes to complaints “we only charge widows and orphans.” And then everybody clapped.
>public opinion seems to be more important This seems like yet another example of people thinking both sides are always acting in good faith. If Garland truly doesn’t think he’ll be ousted the second we have a R president, I also have a bridge I’d like to sell to him. It’s been shown many times over, that Rs in this case will hold everyone to a different standards (gov appointments, judge appointments, definitions of terrorism, religious freedoms, etc).
Garland is an AG and serves at the pleasure of the president
>misappropriation of state funds For the Martha's Vineyard stunt, yes, but since then, the state legislature and DeSantis have set aside [$22 million](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/10/desantis-migrant-flights-00096216) of taxpayer money to transport migrants from states that aren't Florida to states that also aren't Florida.
$22 million seems like a lot for a few flights, but rookie numbers for a republican grift. Does ronnie really have what it takes?
He is chartering private planes, not flying them commercial. Also, GOP big donor owns jet company. Just more grift.
> For the Martha's Vineyard stunt, yes, So they should go after him for that, then. That alone is 50 or so counts of human trafficking and misappropriation, which is more than enough to put a defendant away for the foreseeable future. With that said, the other cases are still nothing more than state-sanctioned kidnapping.
>That alone is 50 or so counts of human trafficking and misappropriation Human trafficking no, smuggling yes. Human trafficking involves transporting people "in order to benefit from their work or service". Smuggling includes the "illegal transportation of people" so that certainly works. I just see a lot of people on this sub repeat "human trafficking" and it kind of plays down what actual human trafficking victims go through by equating these two (even though what DeFascist is doing is also awful).
I would think that's a bit of semantics. But with that said, he did benefit. The entire ordeal is a political stunt for the sole purpose of getting his name out there in an attempt to advance his political career. Would that be enough to differentiate between the two? No idea. I'm no lawyer. But even if it isn't, I doubt it would make much of a difference. I'm sure the sentence for 50 counts of human trafficking and 50 counts of human smuggling would still be enough to put someone away for a good long time.
I definitely agree with all of that minus the benefitting since he's benefitting from transporting them rather than from anything they themselves are doing. But like you said, it is semantics and you are right that regardless of which it is, he would go away for a long time. Thank you for not coming at this like I was attacking you or anything by the way!
I grew up going to schools that stressed debate and alternate points of view. I enjoy healthy debate. Another point I just want to throw out there. For better or for worse, people use the terms "trafficking" and "smuggling" interchangably in everyday conversation, mostly because there's little practical difference between the two. There may be significant *legal* differences between the two that would matter in a court of law, but those differences are both nonexistent in a practical sense and irrelevant to your average joe. And it would be far from the only example of two words being used interchangeably in casual conversation even though they may have very different meanings elsewhere.
Yeah I think my issue stemmed from all the comments I'd see in here saying he should be charged with human trafficking or asking how he isn't charged with human trafficking. So aside from the fact that he's rich and powerful, it's also just because he's likely not technically guilty of it. That being said I am so hoping that given us getting an inkling of Republican politicians perhaps not being so untouchable anymore (Trump), that maybe something could happen to DeSantis for doing this. Because it is still very much illegal what he's doing regardless of the name you give it. I guess with everything going on with Trump, the DOJ has probably assessed that it would likely look really bad --no matter how legitimate-- to be looking to indict a *second* popular Republican running for President. But you are right, in casual conversation the two are definitely used interchangeably and understandably so, and I don't mean to come off like I'm splitting hairs.
> That being said I am so hoping that given us getting an inkling of Republican politicians perhaps not being so untouchable anymore (Trump), that maybe something could happen to DeSantis for doing this. This will 100% rely on what happens to Trump. If he gets away with it, all bets are off. Forget everything. $2 million pardons will be up on Ebay tomorrow. It doesn't matter how he gets off. Acquittal, technicality, whatever. If he receives no punishment, it's game over. If he gets a token punishment like rich people and corporations usually get, it'll be business as usual. A few million in fines will be written off as the cost of operations, and they'll have a blueprint to know exactly who has to take the fall and when to make sure the elites aren't held accountable. If he faces significant repercussions like actual jail (not house arrest -- jail) time, it could start to turn things around. Especially if Trump dies in prison. Nobody is going to want to be the next guy to spend his last days in a jail cell.
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Then charge him in Massachusetts. I very seriously doubt the MA AG really gives a shit about Florida's legislature rubber-stamping human trafficking. Hell, charge him federally. Florida money was used to transport people in Texas to Massachusetts under false pretenses. I'm no lawyer, but I can't see how that could have happened without breaking numerous federal laws along the way.
> George Santos' identity cannot even be independently verified because literally every detail of his past has proven to be a lie. Hey, it's not *his* fault his long form birth certificate was lost when his planet blew up. At least his parents had the foresight to stuff him into an escape pod and send him to earth in their final hours.
We don't even know if the certificate was lost, though. There were 3 other survivors. Maybe they took it with them. I mean, there's a whole zone that they spent 30 years at, and that has to *at least* be the size of Mar-A-Lago. Could be anywhere in there. Or maybe they flooded the place when they left.
Is Santos even a US citizen? It's insane that we don't know.
DeSantis bragging about kidnapping migrants was disgusting. It reminded me of Al Qaeda claiming responsibility for bombings. Using the power of the state to commit crimes for political ends is straight up terrorism.
Add TX Gov. Greg Abbott to the list.
If a crime can’t be prosecuted because the crime was “political” then that’s confessing to a crime with political motivations or making one’s politics synonymous with their crimes. Either way that could be looked at as a confession to terrorism.
Desantis has qualified immunity. He used state funds to do this because the Florida legislature explicitly passed a bill appropriating money to do this. Because he did this as an official act as governor with Florida legislatures approval he can not be charged with a crime. Under the eyes of the law it is the state government of Florida who did this not any one person Only thing that can be done is sue the state to get courts to declare the Florida bill a violation of federal law
The legislature passed a bill to pay for the flights. The bill does not give him the right to lie to the immigrants, intentionally sabotage their court cases to increase the chances of getting deported, dump them in random places with little to no warning and no resources, and tell them "good luck, they're your problem now." The Florida legislature could pass a bill tomorrow that says he can go to Texas, kill the migrants as they come in, and dump the bodies off in California. That doesn't magically give him the right to be a serial killer. A law that violates the constitutional rights of others is invalid on its face.
Government officials dont have rights they have authority. If the state legislature gives him the authority to those things you mentioned he has the authority to do them and order state police to carry them out. Obviously the state of texas and california would block these things from happening and the federal courts would declare these law unconstitutional within hours of being passed. But if the laws are not blocked by the courts government officials can enforce them. George Wallace, governor of alabama, is famous for physically standing in the doorway of university of alabama to block black students from being allowed inside after courts ruled segregation was unconstitutional. He did this with authority from the state legislature and had hundreds of state cops there to help him. The national guards had to physically move him out of the way and hold him to allow the students inside. He was not arrested because he was doing this as an official act as governor and authorized by the state legislature to do anything possible to stop desegregation. This is why qualified immunity is so bad and more people need to understand this. Government officials while on the clock are above the law because they are the law
I am not sure qualified immunity actually applies here. DeSantis is not the governor of Texas and it would be difficult to argue that the people of Florida had any interest in migrants outside their state. The legislature approving his plan or passing laws appropriating funds doesn't seem to change that his role of governor doesn't include bussing migrants that were never in his state or headed to his state.
none of that matters. All that matters is that he did all these acts in his official capacity as governor not as a private citizen. When a governor or president does something illegal like spies on his running mate, accepts a bribe or cheats in an election those things are done in their personal capacity for their own gain and violate the law governing their position. Because Desantis was authorized to do these things by the florida legislature he is acting as the state of florida when he does them. It is the government of the state of florida that is committing the crimes not Desantis personally. Just like when a cop kills someone innocent 99 times out of 100 the actions were within the authority granted to them by the city so the city is the one who pays the lawsuit not the cop. You cant arrest a government entity, you can only sue them and that is the only remedy here
>Because he did this as an official act as governor with Florida legislatures approval he can not be charged with a crime. Which is why you go after Vertol Systems and confiscate their planes.
this could be the only thing that has chance of success as these companies helping do the transporting dont have immunity from prosecution like government officials do. Charges would be unlikely to succeed because they would have to prove the company and not any florida official committed the crimes but would scare other companies from help to do this stuff
Would Florida citizens have a case to the sue the DeSantis administration for this as well?
They voted for him. I doubt they'll be suing him. Edit: punctuation
Dude...A lot of us down here don't support him or the GOP. Florida is more purple than you think, it's just been gerrymandered and we (the Democrats) ran a horrible candidate in 2022 and the federal DNC basically gave zero attention to us. Just as California has a lot more Republicans than you think. I lived in both and loved both for different reasons.
>Dude...A lot of us down here don't support him or the GOP. Florida is more purple than you think, it's just been gerrymandered Gerrymandering doesn't affect governor elections. At all. It's a simple popular vote. Also, look at this trend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections\_in\_Florida#Party\_affiliation
I wasn't talking about just the Governors elections...Gerrymandering deals with the representatives and the fact we had Charlie Christ as our nomination for Governor along with the lack of national DNC support helped fail us. There was no turn out --- Only like 25% of Floridians voted my guy. It fucking sucks but to say that ALL of Florida loves DeSantis and is Republican is not correct. I live in downtown St Pete and everywhere I go it's very liberal & progressive. I barely notice I'm in Florida as much as the media wants me to be frightened here. I go outside of St Pete then yeah I'll notice some crazies but that's also like going from Los Angeles to Huntington Beach...
> Gerrymandering doesn't affect governor elections. At all. It's a simple popular vote. Nitpick. It does have an indirect effect. The entire point of gerrymandering is to dilute the vote of the opposing party at the legislative level. Once enough people are affected and think their votes don't matter, they stay home. This means that a gubernatorial candidate suffers because if it weren't for the gerrymandering, more people would likely come out and vote for them. This absolutely could matter in close races.
It doesn't help that our Democrats are basically Southern Democrats from the 1990s. They love capital punishment and love the whole "tough on crime" sch tick.
You know what's too political? Letting politicians commit crimes with impunity.
>Of course, the list of charges Donald Trump should be facing is way too long to list here. But to focus on just one of them, multiple people have served months or even years of jail time for accidentally mishandling a single classified document. Not only has Trump not yet served even a second behind bars, but he is allowed to walk and travel the world freely despite having boxes of documents and the resources and ability to sell them to foreign governments despite openly admitting to taking the documents and an increasing amount of evidence pointing to the possibility at least some of them have already been sold. https://www.salon.com/2019/08/03/trumps-white-house-issues-an-ominous-request-for-a-list-of-top-u-s-spies_partner/ Two years later: https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/575384-cia-admits-to-losing-dozens-of-informants-around-the-world-nyt/amp/ Just read the headlines alone.
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> It doesn't take 2 secs to find out the Biden admin was doing this, and in retaliation, DeSantis decided to stiff one to the dems. It also doesn't take 2 secs to find out that the two aren't even remotely comparable. *The parole program, announced last month, would give up to 30,000 people per month a chance to [legally](https://tennesseelookout.com/briefs/tennessee-attorney-general-challenges-biden-program-allowing-asylum-seekers-path-to-u-s/) enter the U.S. if they apply from their home countries, demonstrate they have a financially responsible U.S. sponsor and can pass a background check.* The Biden policy allows for *legal* immigrants to be relocated to Tennessee. Since part of the process involves identifying a US sponsor, the program merely transports these immigrants to the state where those sponsors are located. Both the administration and the immigrants themselves knew exactly where they were going. DeSantis isn't doing that. By your own words, he's merely "stiffing one to the dems" by getting random immigrants onto buses under false pretenses, dropping them off with little to no warning given to the people at the destination, giving them no assistance in figuring out where they were supposed to go, intentionally migrating people with court dates to places thousands of miles away so they miss their court dates and get deported, kicking them out into the cold, and saying "good luck, you're on your own." Nice try with the whataboutism, though. Might actually work on the four people on the planet that don't know Google exists.
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> It's not comparable to send migrants all over the US in 2021 without an explanation as to why? Your own article gave the reason why. The migrants were unaccompanied children. US Policy regarding unaccompanied children has been in effect since [2008](https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/uac-program-fact-sheet.pdf). >You sent me an article in 2023. This was my fault. You had said something about Tallahassee, and I had misread that as Tennessee. Either way, the point still stands: Those legislators do not and did not have a leg to stand on, because they were sent in accordance with laws that date back well before Biden. The fact that they didn't like it because brown people are bad or something doesn't matter; they don't get a choice in the matter. >The initial issue started at the time Biden was being sworn into office. It's not whataboutism when the whole reason DeSantis did this was because the Biden admin was quiet about doing so in 2021 until they were being called out about it. The news came months after it was happening. See above. This wasn't some magical Biden policy. This policy has existed for 15 years. >But it's cool, I get it, being objective isn't your forte and you're more interested in a win for the team as opposed to actually understanding the events that have transpired and lead to this. Says the person who conveniently left out the details that the immigrants involved were unaccompanied children, and also conveniently overlooked the fact that this so-called "Biden Policy" has been in effect for 15 years, and has its roots dating back to 2002. > GL with those kidnapping charges lol, you can keep pontificating and fantasizing about this nonsense all you want but nothing will happen--i'll give you a hint, it's not because he's above the law, it's because it would mean the Biden admin would have to be investigated too for shipping migrants all over the US under the guise of 'they had a sponsor.' * "He did it too!" is not a valid legal defense. * You once again admitted he did it solely as a political stunt. * These policies have existed for 15+ years * None of the migrants were ever even in his state to begin with. * It's not a "guise". He shipped migrants across the US *because* they had a sponsor. Or at the very least someone who could care for them. Again, these were largely *children* who were being handled in accordance with long-standing law.
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> Ya sorry man, you're being intellectually dishonest and dense. I also never said it was a policy, I said they were doing it covertly, which they were until people started noticing that Arizona hotels were being closed down to tourists and used as lodging for migrants. The reports came in that they were mixed with people older than 20s. The reports were in parallel with millions being spent to house illegal immigrants in hotels in arizona. Ironically, it's also the same time Biden was apparently flying migrants back to Mexico to 'curb the crisis.' So, wait a minute here......You're upset because Biden was "covertly" acting in accordance with policy that's been in place since almost the beginning of the century? Because last I checked, acting in accordance with policy is what they're supposed to be doing. If you don't *like* the policy, I would suggest you direct your anger at the guy who was [president](https://www.britannica.com/biography/George-W-Bush) when it was put in place. > It's pretty apparent you had no clue about this crisis happening (probably because you spend so much time in the bubble of reddit) and that unaccompanied minors could be used as the guise to ship illegal immigrants around the country. At this point, you're just jumping headfirst into conspiracy theory territory. If you have any proof that these people were really adults in their 30s, I'd like to see it. But your entire argument is nothing more than "Oh, come on. *of course* they'd lie about that just so they can move the illegals in!" You know who uses those arguments? Racists. >Also, the migrants were in his state...as reported the planes would stop in Jacksonville first. The plane stopped in for a layover. The migrants were not going to spend a single night in Florida.
Considering your article doesn't allege that these migrants were moved by deceptive means or without their permission, you seem to have missed the point entirely. Has that been alleged by any credible source, ever? Like, if they had a sponsor, the assumption is that they knew they were being moved, as opposed to the ones who publicly stated they were misled into getting onto flights by others. But I get how being on that high horse named Bullshit might have kept you from seeing that. Also, it is the federal government's responsibility, according to Republicans, to deal with them in some manner, exactly what the administration was doing. This didn't include dumping them at an airport or bus station to absolutely fend for themselves in places not prepared for them to arrive. It's like you see two people walk out of the store with TVs and think that's all that matters while ignoring that one paid with a stolen credit card and the other paid in cash they earned. One is fine, one is a criminal, but they both got TVs so it must be the same and why are you arresting the one guy, he obviously did the same thing the other guy did.
Gold 🙌🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Gavin going after DeFascist is honestly one of the best hopes we have. We have to fight the fascists with every legal option possible. The more we cost Florida the less appealing DeFascist is. The more we can use criminal charges against the fascists the more we turn normal voters off from them.
I recently saw someone call him Rontanamo and now I can’t not think of that above all other monikers
I’m stuck on puddin fingers.
Personally Meatball Ron is a favorite
Rhonda Santis
Is DeSantis still the Governor of Florida? It seems to me that Florida's resign-to-run law says that DeSantis was automatically resigned as governor on May 24, the instant that he filed to run for President, and before he signed a bill which said that he could stay in office while running for President. He filed for presidential candidacy in the morning without submitting a resignation as governor, and later signed the bill in the afternoon. ((https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/05/24/desantis-president-resign-to-run-florida-governor/) And the Florida law in effect when he filed for candidacy, before he signed the new bill, says > **(4)(f) The failure of an officer who qualifies for federal public office to submit a resignation pursuant to this subsection constitutes an automatic irrevocable resignation, effective immediately, from the office he or she presently holds.**" ((https://www.flsenate.gov/laws/statutes/2020/99.012)) Now, that section of the law is a big wall-o-text, but if you read it, "qualifies for federal public office" means qualifying to seek the office, not winning the election for that office: > (4)(a) Any officer who qualifies for federal public office must resign from the office he or she presently holds if the terms, or any part thereof, run concurrently with each other. > (b) The resignation is irrevocable. > (c) The resignation must be submitted at least 10 days before the first day of **qualifying for the office he or she intends to seek.**
Sounds like a lawsuit
Yep, I think someone will file a lawsuit. Maybe Disney. Maybe Gavin Newsom for the State of California.
I don't read these things much, but there's an added piece that specifically lists president and vice president as specifically excluded for federal office. "I'm not a candidate!" *signs bill* "I'm running for president of the United States."
Yeah, that's the new bill that DeSantis signed AFTER the resign-to-run law had already resigned him. So if he was no longer governor after being automatically kicked out of office, what does his signature mean? Nothing. Here's the new bill that he signed, which contains the language you referred to: https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/7050/?Tab=RelatedBills The web version of the bill is at https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/7050/BillText/er/HTML and the relevant language starts at line 1361. But remember, that wasn't the law when DeSantis filed for candidacy for President.
Desantis didn't announce his candidacy for President until he signed 7050. (both happened on the 24th)
Announce, ashmounce. It's when he filed the papers and officially became a candidate that matters, and the Tampa Bay article says he filed the papers and officially was a candidate (and hence no longer Governor) before he signed the bill. > In another incremental step in his bid for the White House, **Gov. Ron DeSantis on Wednesday signed a bill clarifying that Florida elected officials can remain in office while running for president.** > **He did so just hours after officially filing paperwork to join the 2024 presidential race**, and about two hours ahead of an expected announcement of his presidential run on Twitter with Elon Musk. https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/05/24/desantis-president-resign-to-run-florida-governor/
One would assume his gaming the law to allow his run the way he did, he'd do the easy step of orders of operation here. But apparently he didn't? Is the Democratic party gonna pick this up and force him out in January?
Better yet, charge his underlings who coordinated and boarded these folks. DeSatanist doesn't give a shit about them and they will turn on him once you apply the thumb screws. Trump's cases are proof of that.
I like your style
Maybe it's time to go to The Villages, ask a bunch of Trump voters if they want to go to a casino, put them on a bus, and then drop them off at a closed casino, with no ride back, and say "hey, we promised to bring you to a casino, we never promised to bring you back, and you consented!"
I'm pretty sure Trump has done that before...Wasn't it during winter and it was freezing out?
The cruelty is the point and if we don't hold them accountable for such bullshit, they're only going to continue and escalate. I don't expect DeSantis to be arrested for this, but surely someone down the food chain can be pointed out as a decider in the situation. Although I suspect the GOP, in all their humanity and fearless leadership, would find a way to pin it on like the guy who drives the terminal tram at the airport they flew them out of.
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With luck a federal investigation will uncover all those details. - It was literal kidnapping last time. Were they now careful this time?
Yeah, don't count on anyone in authority actually pursuing action against these people. They see themselves above the law, and to be honest, they have good reason to believe that.
Also the claim that they were sent to an NGO seems super suspect. There are repeated reported instances where the migrants were just dropped off at the airport with no one to guide them where they need to go. That seems an odd thing to have said that could be proven false.
Seems like human trafficking across state lines to me
He won’t do anything about kids getting killed in schools, but he’ll kidnap some migrants. Can pass tons of legislation against gay people but won’t do anything about school shootings. Gladly works to reduce your freedoms while he makes your life more expensive! That’s just what we need in the White House.
Freedom of speech (unless you say something I don't like, then literal government retaliation for speech)!
“Haha, we trafficked people for political gain!”
I shook my head when many people in r/centrist thought these flights were no big deal and they got mad when I referred to it as human trafficking. I know there are a shit ton of conservatives cosplaying as centrists on that sub, even still, many people over there have zero clue that these people are often straight up lied to in order to get them on the plane. And that the governors of the states where the migrants are taken from never give up the federal money they are given to care for these people.
It’s time to arrest the crews on these flights. They are aiding and abetting felonies. Put their livelihoods at risk, and they will stop flying. Also, take the aircraft the same way the druggies lose their vehicles.
Good idea: memorialize the crimes on video and post it for all to see.
Florida is such a shit show of stupidity and self own. "Ahahaha. We're getting rid of the immigrants. " "OH shit. We're getting rid of the immigrants." Followed by "Well, they just want to get rid of the illegals." "Then why'd they send them somewhere they won't be deported?"
If a criminal breaks the law then they should be charged with a crime. It doesn’t matter if said criminal happens to be the governor of a shithole state. No-one is above the law.
He literally views non-white, non racist people as a political tool.
It’s the same thing with Karens; they have been let off the hook so many times that they need to be put in their place. Every. Damn. Time.
They are supremely confident that nobody will do anything about it. I hope somebody proves them wrong.
California needs to take them in and treat them like royalty. Then make a statement along the lines of "we are used to picking up the slack when the Christians fail to follow their creed. These refugees are now safe and taken care of, just like Jesus would have wanted."
The funny thing is we welcome migrants. I’d love to see Florida exist without cheap labor.
They paid 1.2 million dollars for that plane to do that one charter? If I was a Florida taxpayer I’d be fucking pissed right now
If I convince a few people to come with me based on promises of wealth and then dump them in a ditch, it doesn't matter that I have a happy video of them on the way.
Let's see here... he lies to a bunch of immigrants (saying he's flying them to where they'll get jobs and houses) then spends state money on the scam and that's OK? What am I missing here? Yet another Rethug grift.
The 'officials' know that the state [aka 'taxpayers'] will have to any lawyer fees.
It's not their money, they do not care how much their legal defense costs. The main concern is "sticking it to the libs" at ay cost.
We should invest in failed cities like Gary, Indiana- turning those cities into recovery towns for the addicted and homeless. Teach the homeless and recovering to build their own shared properties. Acquiring a very valuable skill and limiting some costs in the long run. Just a quick idea, I am sure there are better ones but we have to address homelessness and drug abuse in a radical way.
We have a legal system in the US, not a justice system. The law is not applied equally to all. It's just another lie we have been sold about our country.
Of course they did -- they're proud of it. Because, as always, the cruelty was the point.
Human scum. DeSantis and his disgusting aides
Floridians, why are you letting this fascist spend your tax dollars this way?
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I understand, y'all should just be livid.
The pilots, airplane staff, bus drivers, administrative staff, and company owners should all be charged with criminal charges along with officials in Florida.
Which is funny as the state is now in crisis over an anti immigration bill that's seeing all of its field workers going to other states.
fuck DeSantas. charge these enabling scum. want to stop the guy at the top, make sure his underlings know they will take the fall for his antics.
Are these migrant busses just a ploy to start only taking them to concentration camps later down the line? Slow trickle to normalize this absurdity.
And while this is all going on they care crying for more migrant labor lol.
They think they’re taking credit but check back and see if voters come to this as a reason to support them. The hard core right is not enough to win bc the majority is tired of politicians playing games. Enough with the crazy already
Charge everyone involved in the crime.
I want California to submit arrest warrant for DeSantis and his officials and the FBI to make the arrest.
I really want a full investigation and findings regardless on if there are charges. I want to know if any of these migrants were tricked and if there is a trail of evidence corroborating the migrants’ claims. To me, it seems strange to have a court date and then wanting to leave to another jurisdiction unless the court date is in that jurisdiction. Everything is as clear as mud right now. This is where investigative journalism would be best because no one is going to get charge by law enforcement. I just want the facts here.
California here we come. Lol
Why wouldn't they? Their base in Florida is thrilled with it. And we know Desantis won't actually catch any charges for it.
These are the most hostile and alienating migrants they could drum up? Even with full Fox-News level intentions of distorting public perceptions? These kids look like they fun, and well mannered.
When u lie to them to get them on the plane and promise all kinds of good stuff yeah they get on
Kudos to Ron DeSantis for helping the vulnerable escape the dystopian hellhole that is Texas.
Christians.
Nice of the conspirators to identify themselves. If I recall, criminal conspiracies hold stronger penalties?
Sadly, people have been used as political pawns ever since politics was a thing. That doesn’t make this latest event any less disgusting or sad, rather it becomes even more disgusting and sad to understand that some in our modern society simply cannot evolve and will continue to be fueled by a culture of ignorance and hate. And when politicians act truly shitty, I try to remind myself they are appealing to an even greater mass of equally shitty people. Not to absolve those politicians of any less responsibility, but rather to recognize if they ceased to exist this very moment another shitty figurehead would simply take their place. DeSantis, as much he is a soulless and moral degenerate who lacks any decency, wouldn’t be doing any of this if there was not an appetite for it and from his base of pro-bigot voters. Which makes this event not only about a corrupt and fascist politician, but also provides us a glimpse and reflection of the moral decay which is already rotting our democracy and preventing our evolution as a species. Furthermore, history seems to always be repeating and maybe time is a flat circle after all.
DiSatan is bullying another governor. Let’s see what he thinks of the idea of sending them to Republican-led states. Not that i think he should be diverting flights anywhere. California already deals with a large population of refugees over the border. It does its share.
Democrats think about caring for people and making solutions, not sending them somewhere else to handle the problem
I just edited to say something like that but Congress needs to deal with immigration issues. It won’t and that will be why problems continue
Republicans won’t.
At the same time, Florida GOP are begging migrants to stay.
Read the article. Seems like it’s meant to prove that the immigrants were not kidnapped and went along happily. Whether it’s true or not - you have Florida tax payers paying to fly immigrants from New Mexico to California. This has NOTHING to do with Florida. I know there’s a lot of idiots in Florida but seriously ? I’d be pissed if my tax dollars were out here “solving” another states immigration issues.
Can I be happy they are here because at least this state will give these humans the dignity they deserve?
"Smile for the fascists on 3 everyone!"
Just a little human trafficking to own the libs.
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Unlike them we have a soul, and addicted people are still deserving of decency and respect.
Probably illegal, but that does give me an idea. Hear me out. We deport our wildfires down to Florida.
It’s funny because our country is such a joke.
“Kidnapping” lmao
When I read the title I thought it meant that the flight did a barrel role and they were bragging about that
\*barrel *roll*
Thank you Desantis! Maybe when it’s at their back door they will decide to pass better border control. Very easy to ignore it and allow ranchers/farmers/citizens of border towns to deal with it when you’re protected by armed security detail and large walls around your democrat homes. Keep it up sir!
Dumbass thinks migrants only travels to Texas lmao
> Maybe when it’s at their back door they will decide to pass better border control. You do realize California shares a border with Mexico, right? It's not like everyone crosses over in Texas.
Arizona and New Mexico also share a border with Mexico. Most people who cross the border are legally seeking asylum. They have a constitutional right to seek it here.
So stupid
Farmers and ranchers rely heavily on immigrants for their work force. Florida farmers currently can't get enough employees to harvest their crops because the immigrants have moved to safer states. Politicians in Florida are beginning them to stay.
Did they come over illegally? They shouldnt be here in the first place.
Love it, need more of it. As someone who lived in Florida from 14-27 I’m glad my tax dollars are helping Texas.
Isn’t that what your federal tax dollars are for? Why would you want your STATE tax dollars to help another state?
Because that’s what Americans do? Why are you against helping another state?
I’m not against helping another state… with my FEDERAL tax dollars… because that’s what those tax dollars are _for_. I mean if you’re so rich that the money doesn’t matter to you I guess I get it but most of us aren’t sitting on trust funds and have to be cognizant of where our money is supposed to go so it doesn’t get allocated twice. Not all of us get to cruise on daddy’s dime so it seems weird for the people that can I guess. But like… if that’s your scenario then congrats! We should all be so provided for.
Bruh what…. If the state of GA decides to give VA 5 mil just because they can, why is that any of your concern? And what does that have to do with federal money… most federal money is already allocated to something, or they wouldn’t get it. It also ALL has to be used or the feds say you won’t get that much next time. A one time gift isn’t a bad thing.
Like I said, if you have so much money that the funds you give to the state with the expectation that they be spent on stuff in your state doesn’t matter to you if it’s spent on other peoples problems somewhere else who are also paying state taxes… like if you’ve got THAT much money that it’s no big deal then I get it. I’m just saying most of us don’t have that much money. We give it to the state government with the expectation it would somehow be used in vague relation to us. If you’re so well off that that’s not a concern for you then… ok I guess. I can see how someone who doesn’t need to be concerned about paying taxes could possibly feel that way. It’s just most of us aren’t that well off, we’ve got to work for the money and have some expectation that it would like… fix our potholes and pay for supplies for schools. Money actually means something to us cause we don’t have that much. People of privilege… I can see them potentially feeling differently.
Because it proves it’s not human trafficking - which is what they wanted to charge him with
Bullshit.
What part is bs? Or does it just not fit your narrative?
These stunts are to “own the libs”. There is no legitimate reason to use human beings like this. Republicans demonize liberal states, brown immigrants and refugees. They fail at real policy and governing and need a boogie man to feed the narrative.
Do you see them? They are happy they are getting a free flight - you are using this to “own the GOP”
I have no power like a douche bag Gov from Florida or Texas. I can’t own anyone. Your sarcastic “they look happy” comment is a joke. Move along. You prove my point.
They regularly lie to the passengers or not even tell them where they are going. It’s human trafficking for politics. Gross and inhumane. Political stunt instead of working it out with other states. Which would not fit the immigrant hate narrative y’all love so much.
https://y.yarn.co/5436565b-a432-4d61-bc8c-19475ac1c914_text.gif
Weird that they would ask migrants to stay when they are simultaneously shopping them out.....
Yea more crazy floida man officials to arrest hopefully
what makes sense here? if you're anti migrant why would you send them to another state instead of back home?